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[Qvist]

Hey, I really want to host a game too. But I like to host a game that I know well and have at home. So let's play Pandemic.
Especially newbies are welcome, but anyone can join.
Here are the rules: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/2ccgb5zbx6/Pandemic_Rules.pdf?

Pandemic is a cooperative game. You and your fellow players are members of a disease control team, working together
to research cures and prevent additional outbreaks. Each of you will assume a unique role within the team, with special
abilities that will improve your team’s chances if applied wisely. The object is to save humanity by discovering cures to
four deadly diseases (Blue, Yellow, Black, and Red) that threaten to overtake the planet.
If you and your team aren’t able to keep the diseases contained before finding the necessary cures, the planet will be
overrun and the game will end in defeat for everyone... Do you have what it takes to save humanity?

Short Rules Summary:
1.) On your turn make 4 of the following 8 availiable Actions:
a.) Drive/Ferry Move your pawn to an adjacent city.
b.) Direct Flight Play a card from your hand and move your pawn to the pictured city.
c.) Charter Flight Play the card corresponding to your pawn’s current location, and move to any city on the board.
d.) Shuttle Flight If your pawn is in a city with a Research Station, move it to any other city with a Research Station.
e.) Build A Research Station Play the card corresponding to the city your pawn currently occupies, then place a Research Station in that city.
f.) Discover A Cure If your pawn is in a city with a Research Station, discard 5 cards of the same color to cure the corresponding disease.
g.) Treat Disease Remove a disease cube from the city your pawn occupies. If the cure of that color is already discovered, remove all disease cubes from that city.
h.) Share Knowledge If your pawn and another player’s pawn are in the same city, you may transfer the card of the city that you are in together to this player.

2.) Draw 2 Player Cards
Hand Limit is 7 cards. Special Event cards can be played at any time. Epidemics card must be immediately executed.
Epidemics:
a.) The Infection Rate Indicator moves up by one on the Infection Rate Track.
b.) The bottom card from the Infection Draw Pile is placed on the Infection Discard Pile and 3 cubes to this city are added. This could cause an Outbreak (see below).
c.) The Infection Discard Pile gets shuffled and then placed on top of the remaining Infection Draw Pile.

3.) Infector
Draw cards from the Infection Draw Pile equal to the current Infection Rate and add one cube to the pictured cities, using a cube of the same color as each card. If a city already has 3 cubes in it of the color being added, instead of adding a cube to the city, an Outbreak occurs in that color. That means that you move the Outbreaks Marker up one space on the Outbreak Indicator. And any adjacent city gets a cube of that color instead what may cause another Outbreak and more and more chain reactions.

Losing conditions:
a.) There aren’t enough cards in the Player Draw Pile to draw.
b.) There aren’t enough cubes left of any color in the supply.
c.) The eighth outbreak occurs.

Roles:
The Dispatcher may move other player’s pawns on his turn (Basic actions a-d) as if they were his own pawn. He may also move a pawn to any city that contains another pawn.
The Operations Expert may build a Research Station without discarding the corresponding card of the city he's standing on.
The Scientist (white) only needs 4 cards of a color to discover the cure of the corresponding disease.
The Researcher may give a player any card from his hand when involved in a Share Knowledge action even on another player's turn.
The Medic may remove all the cubes of a single color when performing the Treat Disease action. If the cure of the city he's standing on is already discovered, all disease cubes from that city are automatically removed without spending an action.

Setup:
This is a 4 player base game with randomized roles.
Difficulty level: Standard, so there will be 5 Epidemic cards.
Player cards are visible to everyone.

Forum Rules:
Please try to look in this thread at least once per day.
I don't think we need a move deadline. But try to make a move within 2 days.
I'll then update the map regularly.
Communication isn't only allowed, it's demanded.
In your turn, write all your 4 player actions in bold.

Example:
Charter Flight to Essen (discard Santiago)
Build a Research Station (discard Essen)
Discover the blue Cure (discard Paris, Madrid, London, Atlanta, San Francisco)
Treat Disease

Sign-up:
I want to wait a little bit before starting.
So signup until Sunday 11/11 around 4pm UTC.
Please post if you are new to the game or not. I will then choose 4 out of the most newest players.
If we reach even 8 people I will eventually start an Expert game with higher difficulty.

Signed up:
Galzria
Jimmmmm
Schneau
shraeye
SwitchedFromStarcraft
Tables

[Qvist]

Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Baghdad, Chennai, Hong Kong

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa, Johannesburg, Government Grant
Government Grant: Add a Research Station to any city for free.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai, Riyadh, Mumbai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Buenos Aires

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm in, and have never played before.  (I've also never played a co-op game that I can remember, so this will be cool.)

Self ninja'd, as I HAD NOT READ ALL OF THE OP.  Shame on me.

[Qvist]

This is a 4 player base game with randomized roles.
...
Please post if you are new to the game or not. I will then choose 4 out of the most newest players.
If we reach even 8 people I will eventually start an Expert game with higher difficulty.

[Schneau]

I'm interested. I've played 3 games of Pandemic before now.

[Tables]

I'm a pretty experienced Pandemic player (usually win 2 player games on Heroic), so I'd be willing to join an advanced game.

I think starting 4 player on Normal is probably too hard, though. I mean 4 player Initiate isn't that much easier than 2 player Heroic, 4 player Normal is almost certainly harder than it. Unless you want to include expansions special events+special event rules, which balance things a bit.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm a pretty experienced Pandemic player (usually win 2 player games on Heroic), so I'd be willing to join an advanced game.

I think starting 4 player on Normal is probably too hard, though. I mean 4 player Initiate isn't that much easier than 2 player Heroic, 4 player Normal is almost certainly harder than it. Unless you want to include expansions special events+special event rules, which balance things a bit.

Tables - In looking at the rules, seeing the board, etc., I'm potentially interested in buying this game. However, my gaming group numbers 2 (me and my GF).  Is this a game that has serious merit in 2p?  Is it actually better in 2p than 3 or 4?

[Galzria]

I would be /in for an expansion game with Mutations/Virulent Strain (or both!) at a more advanced level (5/6 Epidemics).

I will also fill in here if there aren't enough newer players to go 'round.

[Lekkit]

I would be interested, but I don't really have the time. Will probably be following this.

[Qvist]

Tables, yeah 4player on normal is harder than 2player, but I don't think it matters that much, especially as I think that at least one player will join who has at least played a few games. He can then give some advices. And losing isn't really that bad in this game. The Pandemic games I lose I often remember longer than the ones I won.

SFS, it works well with 2 players same as with 4 players, but it's harder with more players. You could possibly even play it with 5 players (playing all roles), but that's really hard.
It's one of the few games my wife plays with me, but I like to play it with friends too.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

@All, any feedback on the questions I posted in #6 would be appreciated.  Galz posted in another thread that he like the game with 3 to 4, so now I'm curious.  I'll hold off on a purchase until after I've played.

Ninja'd.

[Galzria]

I'm a pretty experienced Pandemic player (usually win 2 player games on Heroic), so I'd be willing to join an advanced game.

I think starting 4 player on Normal is probably too hard, though. I mean 4 player Initiate isn't that much easier than 2 player Heroic, 4 player Normal is almost certainly harder than it. Unless you want to include expansions special events+special event rules, which balance things a bit.

Tables - In looking at the rules, seeing the board, etc., I'm potentially interested in buying this game. However, my gaming group numbers 2 (me and my GF).  Is this a game that has serious merit in 2p?  Is it actually better in 2p than 3 or 4?

I prefer 3/4 for the social aspects and the variety of powers - however it can still be incredibly challenging at 2 players. It really does expand well to all levels.

(In essence, the fewer people you have, the fewer powers you have to help save the World, but the more people, the more spread around the cards are. Since one way to lose the game is to empty the draw pile, you see more of the deck gone between individual turns with larger numbers of players, which significantly increases difficulty).

The sweet spot really is 3 for balanced play, but since you decide how many Epidemics you play with, it can still be very difficult for two players with bad power combinations.

[Galzria]

In terms of actual enjoyment, any number is awesome.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

In terms of actual enjoyment, any number is awesome.

I just read through the full rules, it looks really cool.

[shraeye]

Totally new, interested in possibly playing.

[Tables]

I'm a pretty experienced Pandemic player (usually win 2 player games on Heroic), so I'd be willing to join an advanced game.

I think starting 4 player on Normal is probably too hard, though. I mean 4 player Initiate isn't that much easier than 2 player Heroic, 4 player Normal is almost certainly harder than it. Unless you want to include expansions special events+special event rules, which balance things a bit.

Tables - In looking at the rules, seeing the board, etc., I'm potentially interested in buying this game. However, my gaming group numbers 2 (me and my GF).  Is this a game that has serious merit in 2p?  Is it actually better in 2p than 3 or 4?

It's easier with 2, without the expansion. Fun factor is pretty much the same with anything from 2-4, I've found. I know the game's still fun if you lose, but I think the introductory game difficulty might be better, that's all.

[Jimmmmm]

I own the game, and I'll play if there's room.

[Qvist]

Game starts! See board in second post.

Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, San Francisco

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Mexico City

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo

Starting cubes:

Mexico City (3), Johannesburg (3), Lima (2), Bogotá (1)
Chicago (3), Toronto (2), Madrid (1), Paris (1)
Ho Chi Minh City (2)

Jimmmmm's next.

[Jimmmmm]

I take it from the map that we're using the Mutation/Virulent Strain (or whatever it's called) expansion. If so, can you add the expansion rules please?

[Jimmmmm]

In terms of strategy, here's what I'm thinking:

Clearly the most important thing always is to deal with the critical cities (those that have 3 cubes on them). To that end, I could spend my first turn taking one cube from Chicago and one from Mexico City. We could wait for shraeye's turn to do that and take all the cubes at once, but that opens us up to outbreaks if we get an epidemic before then.

If I end up in Mexico City, SFS could come over by either driving or direct flight, and share Sydney with me. That will give me 2/4 reds, and with a bit of luck I could draw another one or two at the end of my turn. If SFS draws one or two I can take them off him on my next turn.

Schneau could then drive to Toronto and fly over to Joburg and take a cube from there, then set up a station next turn.

That doesn't leave much for shraeye to do, maybe just clean up after me? Things could be quite different by then I suppose.

What do you guys think? Should I just go ahead and have my turn?

[Qvist]

No sorry, I use VASSAL for that and I found no way to disable the expansion for the map. We're just playing the base game.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

In terms of strategy, here's what I'm thinking:

Clearly the most important thing always is to deal with the critical cities (those that have 3 cubes on them). To that end, I could spend my first turn taking one cube from Chicago and one from Mexico City. We could wait for shraeye's turn to do that and take all the cubes at once, but that opens us up to outbreaks if we get an epidemic before then.

If I end up in Mexico City, SFS could come over by either driving or direct flight, and share Sydney with me. That will give me 2/4 reds, and with a bit of luck I could draw another one or two at the end of my turn. If SFS draws one or two I can take them off him on my next turn.

Schneau could then drive to Toronto and fly over to Joburg and take a cube from there, then set up a station next turn.

That doesn't leave much for shraeye to do, maybe just clean up after me? Things could be quite different by then I suppose.

What do you guys think? Should I just go ahead and have my turn?

I like your idea. If I've understood, you'd drive to Chicago, remove a cube, drive to Mex. City, remove a cube. That's four actions.  Once my turn starts, I would Fly Direct to Mex. City, remove two cubes (leaving zero in Mex. City), and use my final action to share Sydney with you, which I can do without being in Sydney, as I am the researcher.  I feel that removing the 2nd cube in Mex. City is more valuable than removing 2nd cube in Chicago, since Atlanta is just one action away from Chicago for subsequent players, though it would allow me to save, rather than use, a Yellow card (Mex. City).  How important is saving a card?

Also, I have a suggestion.  For the first few turns, it may help in cementing the game's mechanics to provide a high level of specificity (type of flight, special ability, cards being discarding, etc.) in discussing our potential moves.  As an example, in reviewing your suggestion for Schneau's move, I couldn't immediately figure out how he'd get to Jo'berg.  Such an approach would also assist us in previewing turns for viability.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Schneau would not treat any disease, right? 2 drives, one fly, setup research station - that's four actions.  Shraeye could possibly treat in Chicago and Toronto.  If he does, then at that point we would have gotten rid of a fair amount of blue and yellow in one round, with an inroad to more yellow on round 2, with Schneau in Jo'berg.

What generalizations are true of the game (e.g. it's good to have a research station on every continent; larger hand sizes are more important in late game than in mid-game; transportation generally becomes the limiting factor in late-game; etc)?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist: In the lower center of the board, just above the "Cures Discovered" area, is a purple cube (quantity remaining 12) next to the symbol for the research stations. What are the purple cubes?  Will there be 6 research stations?

Also, if 8 Player cards have been dealt to the players, should there be 51 cards left in the draw pile, rather than the 50 stated on the board?

[Qvist]

Ok, I should have made it more clear. Ignore the purple cubes. This is from the expansion "On the brink". I don't know how to remove this from the board in VASSAL.

And we're playing in Standard mode = 5 Epidemic cards. This makes 4 colors * 12 cities + 5 Special Event cards + 5 Epidemic cards - 8 cards already dealt out = 50 cards. So this is correct.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Ok, I should have made it more clear. Ignore the purple cubes. This is from the expansion "On the brink". I don't know how to remove this from the board in VASSAL.

And we're playing in Standard mode = 5 Epidemic cards. This makes 4 colors * 12 cities + 5 Special Event cards + 5 Epidemic cards - 8 cards already dealt out = 50 cards. So this is correct.

And there will be a total of 6 research stations available, correct?

[Qvist]

Correct, there 6 Research Stations, with one already being in Atlanta, 5 are still in the supply.

[Jimmmmm]

In terms of strategy, here's what I'm thinking:

Clearly the most important thing always is to deal with the critical cities (those that have 3 cubes on them). To that end, I could spend my first turn taking one cube from Chicago and one from Mexico City. We could wait for shraeye's turn to do that and take all the cubes at once, but that opens us up to outbreaks if we get an epidemic before then.

If I end up in Mexico City, SFS could come over by either driving or direct flight, and share Sydney with me. That will give me 2/4 reds, and with a bit of luck I could draw another one or two at the end of my turn. If SFS draws one or two I can take them off him on my next turn.

Schneau could then drive to Toronto and fly over to Joburg and take a cube from there, then set up a station next turn.

That doesn't leave much for shraeye to do, maybe just clean up after me? Things could be quite different by then I suppose.

What do you guys think? Should I just go ahead and have my turn?

I like your idea. If I've understood, you'd drive to Chicago, remove a cube, drive to Mex. City, remove a cube. That's four actions.  Once my turn starts, I would Fly Direct to Mex. City, remove two cubes (leaving zero in Mex. City), and use my final action to share Sydney with you, which I can do without being in Sydney, as I am the researcher.  I feel that removing the 2nd cube in Mex. City is more valuable than removing 2nd cube in Chicago, since Atlanta is just one action away from Chicago for subsequent players, though it would allow me to save, rather than use, a Yellow card (Mex. City).  How important is saving a card?

Yes, that's what I had planned for my move. I personally think it would be fine for you to drive - totally clearing Mex. City isn't that high of a priority, and if you drive then you can Charter Flight from there to anywhere in your next turn.

Also, I have a suggestion.  For the first few turns, it may help in cementing the game's mechanics to provide a high level of specificity (type of flight, special ability, cards being discarding, etc.) in discussing our potential moves.  As an example, in reviewing your suggestion for Schneau's move, I couldn't immediately figure out how he'd get to Jo'berg.  Such an approach would also assist us in previewing turns for viability.

Yes, good idea, I will be more specific.

Schneau would not treat any disease, right? 2 drives, one fly, setup research station - that's four actions.  Shraeye could possibly treat in Chicago and Toronto.  If he does, then at that point we would have gotten rid of a fair amount of blue and yellow in one round, with an inroad to more yellow on round 2, with Schneau in Jo'berg.

Yes, Schneau would spend 3 actions getting there, and would spend his last action either removing a cube, or setting up a research station. I suggest that if he builds a station then Shraeye should fly over (from station to station) and remove all the cubes from Jo'burg using the Medic ability. It will be a long time until Schneau's second turn, and I think the chances of getting an epidemic before then is quite high, which will mean it could outbreak.

What generalizations are true of the game (e.g. it's good to have a research station on every continent; larger hand sizes are more important in late game than in mid-game; transportation generally becomes the limiting factor in late-game; etc)?

Well usually the most important thing is to deal with is the critical cities. I think that there's a bigger difference between 2 and 3 cubes than there is between 0 and 2 cubes. Removing all the cubes is nice, but it's just not the priority. Of course, you need to be working on the cures at the same time. What else? Working on a cure can really slow you down, because you'll find yourself wanting to use the cards you need to save, and there's really not much room for other cards. Using cards for something other than cures should be done fairly sparingly if possible.

Anyway, I've only played a half dozen times or so, so I'm definitely no expert.

And there will be a total of 6 research stations available, correct?

That's correct, but if we run out we can take a pre-existing one and build it somewhere else, so there's no reason for the Operations Expert not to put one down if he has absolutely nothing else to do. When I've played, we haven't used more than 4 or 5 anyway.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I think it's time to get this game underway.

Drive to Chicago
Treat disease
Drive to Mexico City
Treat disease

[Jimmmmm]

Rules clarification: Sharing knowledge can go either way. So if we're both in eg Atlanta, one of us can pass Atlanta to the other on either one of our turns, costing the player whose turn it is an action.

So for this game, another thing SFS could do is simply copy my move and then I can take Sydney and any other Red SFS has drawn on my turn (the Researcher ability applies to cards being passed from the Researcher to another player, regardless of whose turn).

Qvist: Do we need explicit permission to take other players' cards in this way?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm going to wait until Qvist plays the infector role and you draw your cards before actually making my move.

[Jimmmmm]

Yes, I think we should always do that. An epidemic always changes things.

[Qvist]

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Washington, New York.

Infector: Cairo, Riyadh

SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[Qvist]

Qvist: Do we need explicit permission to take other players' cards in this way?

With this being fully cooperative I don't think this is necessary.

[Jimmmmm]

Well that changes things a little bit - I'm now only one away from the blue cure. Here's an idea: If Schneau drives to Toronto and builds there, I can get the blue cure next turn. Of course, that means we have no one in Jo'burg; maybe SFS drives to MC, takes a charter flight there and removes one cube?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, Qvist, would you mind adding the player information below the map as with the other one?

[Qvist]

I thought it would be better to keep the game state in post #2 and only the changes in the new post. But I'll do how you like.

[Schneau]

To start, good luck and have fun!

I like either of the two options for me, either: (1) Go to Toronto, build a research station and clear a cube, with the idea of curing blue on Jimmmmm's turn; or (2) Go to Toronto, fly to Johannesburg, and either build a station or clear a cube.

One thing to note is that Jo'burg only neighbors 2 cities. So, even if there is an outbreak there, it isn't the worst place to have one. Cities with more neighbors tend to be worse for outbreaks, since they put more cubes on the board. Plus, neither Kinshasa nor Khartoum have any cubes yet, so there's very lo risk of chained outbreaks there.

Things may change depending on what happens during SFS's turn, but I think I'm most in favor of curing blue fast if we can. So, I'm not sure what SFS's best move is. We don't have a dispatcher, which will make coordinating movements much more difficult. Since SFS is Researcher, he should probably hold his cards and not use them for flights, so that he can later give cards easily to others. Two options would be to treat some cubes near Atlanta (like in Chicago or Toronto) or to start spreading out for better map coverage. I think my favorite right now would be for him to move to Chicago, clear both cubes, and move to Toronto. That way, if both Jimmmmm and I end up there next turn, he can easily give us cards while in Toronto during either our turns or his.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

To start, good luck and have fun!

I like either of the two options for me, either: (1) Go to Toronto, build a research station and clear a cube, with the idea of curing blue on Jimmmmm's turn; or (2) Go to Toronto, fly to Johannesburg, and either build a station or clear a cube.

One thing to note is that Jo'burg only neighbors 2 cities. So, even if there is an outbreak there, it isn't the worst place to have one. Cities with more neighbors tend to be worse for outbreaks, since they put more cubes on the board. Plus, neither Kinshasa nor Khartoum have any cubes yet, so there's very lo risk of chained outbreaks there.

Things may change depending on what happens during SFS's turn, but I think I'm most in favor of curing blue fast if we can. So, I'm not sure what SFS's best move is. We don't have a dispatcher, which will make coordinating movements much more difficult. Since SFS is Researcher, he should probably hold his cards and not use them for flights, so that he can later give cards easily to others. Two options would be to treat some cubes near Atlanta (like in Chicago or Toronto) or to start spreading out for better map coverage. I think my favorite right now would be for him to move to Chicago, clear both cubes, and move to Toronto. That way, if both Jimmmmm and I end up there next turn, he can easily give us cards while in Toronto during either our turns or his.

The notion of me holding on to cards (so that I might pass them) is a good one I think, and is also illustrative of the general strategic guidance I would appreciate having lots of as the game moves forward. Let's not forget though, that I can only pass one card to one player per turn (specifically, I can pass any card, but I can only pass a card when receiving the card that represents the city we are standing in at the time).

I like the idea now of driving to Chicago and Toronto, especially given that I might draw a blue card at the end of my turn, while standing in Toronto.

The Bogata - Lima - M. City triangle has me a little worried.  Any thoughts before I move to Chicago and Toronto?  Jim is online, Schneau is not.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist - I think the player's card holdings at the bottom of the map is going to be crucial, and I know that is extra work.  Would a compromise be to only update post #2 after every turn, and not reproduce the map anywhere else in the thread?  Is there a reason NOT to do it this way, that I've not thought of?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I guess I'm a little confused about the Share Knowledge thing, and my confusion is generated by the phrase "involved in a share knowledge transaction" in the ruleset.  I understand my special ability as researcher - I can, by spending an action on my turn, give any card to any player standing in the same city with me, with no further restrictions. I further understand, from the rules, that the only card I will ever receive from someone will be the card for the city we are standing in together, because everyone except the researcher can only pass the card for the city they are in together.  I further understand that should I ever receive a card, it will by definition occur on someone else's turn.

Now, here's my question, and I guess it relates to what constitutes a "transaction":

Say it's Jim's turn, and he spends an action to give me the card for the city we are standing in.  Can I then (as part of a "transaction") give him a card (specifically, any card I choose), as part of that "transaction"?  If so, that would allow me to pass him a total of 5 cards over the course of his turn and mine (one in exchange for his during his turn, and 4 more on my turn, at the rate of one card passed per action spent).

I'm probably going to wait until tomorrow to move, pending the answer to this.  With M. City in my hand, giving it to Jim while he is in M. City will allow him to charter a flight anywhere he wants (including Toronto) on his next turn, when we know what new cards (maybe blue cards) have been drawn by the players behind him.  If I draw blue, it may or may not be worth him hanging out in M. city, but at least the card that allows him to travel would be in his hand.  If it for some reason is not useful at that point, he could pass it back to me (we would be standing in M. City together) and potentially get another card for it.  Lots of options here.

[Schneau]

I guess I'm a little confused about the Share Knowledge thing, and my confusion is generated by the phrase "involved in a share knowledge transaction" in the ruleset.  I understand my special ability as researcher - I can, by spending an action on my turn, give any card to any player standing in the same city with me, with no further restrictions. I further understand, from the rules, that the only card I will ever receive from someone will be the card for the city we are standing in together, because everyone except the researcher can only pass the card for the city they are in together.  I further understand that should I ever receive a card, it will by definition occur on someone else's turn.

Now, here's my question, and I guess it relates to what constitutes a "transaction":

Say it's Jim's turn, and he spends an action to give me the card for the city we are standing in.  Can I then (as part of a "transaction") give him a card (specifically, any card I choose), as part of that "transaction"?  If so, that would allow me to pass him a total of 5 cards over the course of his turn and mine (one in exchange for his during his turn, and 4 more on my turn, at the rate of one card passed per action spent).

I'm probably going to wait until tomorrow to move, pending the answer to this.  With M. City in my hand, giving it to Jim while he is in M. City will allow him to charter a flight anywhere he wants (including Toronto) on his next turn, when we know what new cards (maybe blue cards) have been drawn by the players behind him.  If I draw blue, it may or may not be worth him hanging out in M. city, but at least the card that allows him to travel would be in his hand.  If it for some reason is not useful at that point, he could pass it back to me (we would be standing in M. City together) and potentially get another card for it.  Lots of options here.

I had similar confusions about the Share Knowledge action during my first few games. If I have it correct, any player may take the action Share Knowledge by being in the same city as another player and either getting or sending the card with that city's name on it. So, if Jimmmmm and I are in Tokyo on Jimmmmm's turn and he has the card Tokyo, he can give it to me as 1 action. Or, if I have Tokyo, Jimmmmm can use an action for me to give Tokyo to him. Either sending or receiving a card uses 1 action.

As the Researcher, the only thing that changes is that if you are the one giving the card, you don't have to be in the city that's on the card to give it. So, if you and Jimmmmm are in Miami on your turn, you can use an action to give him any of your cards. But, he could only give you Miami, which would also cost you an action to receive. Additionally, on Jimmmmm's turn he can spend an action to receive a card from you - it can be any card. Or, he can spend an action to give you a card, but it has to be Miami. Your ability does not allow you to "trade" cards with someone, where each player would give and receive a card.

To sum up, sharing knowledge involves either giving or receiving a card, not both, and both players have to be in same city that is on the card, unless the person giving the card is the Researcher.

[Schneau]

The Bogata - Lima - M. City triangle has me a little worried.  Any thoughts before I move to Chicago and Toronto?  Jim is online, Schneau is not.

I am also slightly worried about this, but not enough to not have you go to Chicago and Toronto this turn. Maybe shraeye can go to that area and clean things up quickly as the medic?

[shraeye]

ok, I'm totally caught up on the rules and ready for this.

I plan on going to go to clear up Mexico city and possibly deal with that triangle as well my turn.  Getting an early chance to cure blue sounds great, I'll clear up Johannesburg next.  My current plan is to go Chicago, MexCity, treat, Bogota.
then next turn I can treat, SaoPaolo, charter to J-burg, and treat.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

OK, that explanation helped a great deal, and I like the way you said it.  Every player can spend 1 action to give (or to receive, depending on the direction the card is moving) the card for the city the two players are standing in.  The researcher can spend 1 action to receive the card for the city that he and the giver are standing in, or can use 1 action to give any card to any player.  The researcher may repeat this second part as much as he wants, with the limit being 4 actions per turn, therefore 4 cards per turn.

I'll submit my turn in the morning.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

In the morning, do we want me to use option A or B:

A) Drive to Chicago, treat disease, treat disease, drive to Toronto (this leaves none in Chicago, but 2 cubes in Toronto
B) Drive to Chicago, treat disease, drive to Toronto treat disease (this would leave one cube in Chicago, which Schneau could then treat on his way through Chicago, but at the cost of not getting to Bogata, or not treating disease in Mex City.)

[shraeye]

In the morning, do we want me to use option A or B:

A) Drive to Chicago, treat disease, treat disease, drive to Toronto (this leaves none in Chicago, but 2 cubes in Toronto
B) Drive to Chicago, treat disease, drive to Toronto treat disease (this would leave one cube in Chicago, which Schneau could then treat on his way through Chicago, but at the cost of not getting to Bogata, or not treating disease in Mex City.)

I think you meant shraeye, not schneau

Another thought could be Chicago, toronto, treat, treat

I could move chicago, treat, MC, treat and then plan on my next turn to go bogota, saopaolo, charter to J-burg, treat.  This makes maximal use of my medic role, making sure I'm always treating 2+ cubes.

[Jimmmmm]

OK, that explanation helped a great deal, and I like the way you said it.  Every player can spend 1 action to give (or to receive, depending on the direction the card is moving) the card for the city the two players are standing in.  The researcher can spend 1 action to receive the card for the city that he and the giver are standing in, or can use 1 action to give any card to any player.  The researcher may repeat this second part as much as he wants, with the limit being 4 actions per turn, therefore 4 cards per turn.

I'll submit my turn in the morning.

...who is in the same city as you.

Share Knowledge
...
Transfer a card from one player to another. Every card transferred costs 1 action. Both your pawn and your fellow player's pawn must be in the same city, and you may only transfer the card of the city that you are in together. (For example, if you are together in Moscow, only the Moscow card may be transferred from one player to the other.) If either player holds more than 7 cards as a result of a transfer, the excess cards must be immediately discarded to the Player Discard Pile.

The Researcher may give a fellow player any card from his hand when involved in a Share Knowledge action. He is not restricted to giving the card of the current jointly-occupied city, like other players are. This freedom only applies when the Researcher is giving a card--he always receives a card with the same restriction as other players. The Researcher can utilize this ability when involved in Share Knowledge actions on any player's turn.

[Jimmmmm]

If I'm right about the way the deck is set up, then the first epidemic is in the first 10 cards, the 2nd is in the 2nd 10 and so on. All the cities with 2 cubes can't outbreak until the second epidemic card is drawn, which will be no earlier than the end of SFS's 2nd turn, and by then we'll have the blue cure, so if nothing else, SFS can remove all the cubes in Toronto and Chicago before that happens, with a spare action to pass a card if necessary (at this stage probably Sydney to me).

Jo'burg, on the other hand, has a fairly good chance of outbreaking before shraeye's second turn. It's true that an outbreak there will be much more manageable than one in the Americas, unless of course we're unlucky enough to pull Kinshasa or Khartoum from the bottom of the infection deck, putting 3 cubes there and leaving the card near the top of the infection deck, leaving one double outbreak almost certain, and another triple outbreak fairly likely as well. Of course, worst case shraeye can come along and remove all the cubes from both the outbroken cities in his next turn, but we'd be a lot closer to losing via outbreaks.

So I think the question is: do we prioritise protecting Jo'burg and sent Schneau there, with the added advantage of being able to build there on his next turn, but delaying the blue cure by at least one round, and forcing us to hope that either I or SFS draws a blue card at the end of our next turn; or do we get the blue cure this turn as planned and hope we don't get screwed with Jo'burg?

Actually, there's a third option. SFS could drive to MC and fly to Jo'burg and remove one cube. This allows us to rescue Jo'burg which then can't possibly outbreak until the end of SFS's second turn, and get the blue cure as well, but of course it strands our Researcher on the other side of the world, hoping he draws something which will bring him back somewhere useful, or making him use Sydney to come home.

tl;dr
Choose 2:
1) get the blue cure on my second turn;
2) rescue Jo'burg from a likely outbreak, which will most likely be quite tame, but has a small probability of being disastrous;
3) have our Researcher in a useful location, ready to pass cards as required.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I like 1 and 3, because it goes a long way towards eliminating 1/4 of the threats (not truly eradicating, which I understand is [Find Cure + Treat all remaining Disease], but it would be a big step).

Questions:

a) If I were to go from Mex. City to Jo'berg and treat 1 cube, how does Sydney enter into the picture (in terms of getting back)?  To go from Jo'berg to Sydney is almost two full turns (though I could treat black in two cities along the way, so I'm likely to be gone for a while (which, with my shuffle luck, would guarantee my drawing blue cards).
b) assuming Schneau ends up in Toronto on this first turn, and Jim then drives to Toronto and takes the Toronto card on his Turn 2 (giving us 4 blue cards and the cure for blue), how do either of you get anywhere quickly on subsequent turns?  The Toronto card would be surrendered, making charter flight out of Toronto impossible.

I think getting Shraeye to Jo'berg, out of Mex. City is the best plan, he's the medic, he'll have maximum effect whether it outbreaks or not, and if it does, he's near all the new cubes.  So here is what I propose for my turn (not in bold yet, so not official):

Share knowledge with Shraeye (Mex. City card - it lets him charter to Jo'berg); drive to Chicago; treat 2 cubes.  Me staying in chicago keeps me one action closer to Jim, in case I draw a blue card - he wouldn't have to go to Toronto, and Schneau's Toronto card could then be used for transportation on his turn, likely to Madrid, which is close to Paris. With any luck, we could not only have found a cure for blue but actually eradicate blue by my Turn 3, where I would slide over to Toronto and treat 2 cubes (assuming Schneau treated none before flying).  It may increase the chance of a problem on the African continent, but we have the best person (medic) headed that way anyway, and we will have shortened his trip.

I really am going to bed now, it's 1:00 am.

[Jimmmmm]

a) If I were to go from Mex. City to Jo'berg and treat 1 cube, how does Sydney enter into the picture (in terms of getting back)?  To go from Jo'berg to Sydney is almost two full turns (though I could treat black in two cities along the way, so I'm likely to be gone for a while (which, with my shuffle luck, would guarantee my drawing blue cards).

Sydney is linked to LA, so you could fly to Sydney then ferry (?).

b) assuming Schneau ends up in Toronto on this first turn, and Jim then drives to Toronto and takes the Toronto card on his Turn 2 (giving us 4 blue cards and the cure for blue), how do either of you get anywhere quickly on subsequent turns?  The Toronto card would be surrendered, making charter flight out of Toronto impossible.

I'm not sure, depends what cards we draw. But I think getting the cure is worth it.

I think getting Shraeye to Jo'berg, out of Mex. City is the best plan, he's the medic, he'll have maximum effect whether it outbreaks or not, and if it does, he's near all the new cubes.  So here is what I propose for my turn (not in bold yet, so not official):

Share knowledge with Shraeye (Mex. City card - it lets him charter to Jo'berg); drive to Chicago; treat 2 cubes.  Me staying in chicago keeps me one action closer to Jim, in case I draw a blue card - he wouldn't have to go to Toronto, and Schneau's Toronto card could then be used for transportation on his turn, likely to Madrid, which is close to Paris. With any luck, we could not only have found a cure for blue but actually eradicate blue by my Turn 3, where I would slide over to Toronto and treat 2 cubes (assuming Schneau treated none before flying).  It may increase the chance of a problem on the African continent, but we have the best person (medic) headed that way anyway, and we will have shortened his trip.

I like it. For some reason I thought shraeye had Lima, and it didn't occur to me to pass him MC. Alternatively, you could pass MC to shraeye then come to MC and give me Sydney, leaving healing blue until we have the cure. Either would be fine, I think.

So at this stage I think the plan is for Schneau to meet me in Toronto if SFS doesn't draw any blues, and shraeye to go to Jo'burg via MC and remove all the cubes there.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist, here is my move:

1) Share knowledge with Shraeye (the medic) - Give him the Mexico City Card
2) Drive to Chicago
3) Treat disease
4) Treat disease

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws St. Petersburg, EPIDEMIC.

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in New York (3 cubes)
Intensify: Infection Discard Pile is shuffled and placed on top of the draw pile.
Infector: Lima, Paris



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, San Francisco, Washington, New York

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, St. Petersburg

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City

Schneau's next.

[Jimmmmm]

Now things start to get interesting. NY and Jo'burg are now both at least fairly near the top of the infection. It's really good that SFS drew a blue, that frees up Schneau to deal with NY. I would suggest driving to NY and then either removing one cube and driving to Toronto, or removing two cubes, either way with the plan to fly out from Toronto to wherever a research station might be needed next turn. shraeye can still deal with Jo'burg as planned, and I'll take St. Petersburg from SFS and go back to Atlanta to get the cure.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, that sort of sucked, but at least I have a blue card for Jimmm.

Something to keep track of:  When the infector cards were reshuffled, here's what went on top of the Infector deck in an unknown order (:

Mexico City, Johannesburg, Lima , Bogotá
Chicago , Toronto , Madrid , Paris
Ho Chi Minh City
Cairo, Riyadh
New York

Lima and Paris have been re-drawn, so the next 10 cards on the top of the infector deck include:

Mexico City, Johannesburg, Bogotá
Chicago , Toronto , Madrid
Ho Chi Minh City
Cairo, Riyadh
New York

We likely have a short interval between now and the next epidemic.  50 Player cards were divided into equal piles (say 12 each), with one EPIDEMIC card in each pile.  Our first Epidemic was 4 cards in, so we should have AT LEAST 8 more cards (4 people's turns) before the next one, possibly a lot more.

I think a cure for blue is important, for several reasons.  I've now seen how things change so much so quickly, it's within reach (we have the critical mass of cards AND the player locations needed).  I wish it would prevent further placement of blue on the board, but that won't happen until we eradicate the disease.

Speaking of curing blue:  Assuming Jim comes to Chicago to receive the (closest) blue card from me, he then needs to be in a city with a research station to cure blue.  So he will either need to move on to Atlanta (his move would be Drive, Share, Drive to Atlanta, cure blue), or Schneau needs to create a research station in Chicago on his way through (which he can do without having the Chicago card), thereby saving Jim a 4th action which might be useful.  Is it wasteful to create a Research Station a) just to cure a disease and/or b) so close to another?

Semi-ninja'd.

[Qvist]

We likely have a short interval between now and the next epidemic.  50 Player cards were divided into equal piles (say 12 each), with one EPIDEMIC card in each pile.  Our first Epidemic was 4 cards in, so we should have AT LEAST 8 more cards (4 people's turns) before the next one, possibly a lot more.

It's exactly 5 Epidemic cards within 50 cards, so that's 10 cards per Epidemic. That means you have at least 3 turns without Epidemic.

[Schneau]

Well, that hurts, but it could have been worse. Since the epidemic hit on our second turn, it means we get at least 3 more turns that we know we won't get an epidemic. Which should hopefully give us time to cure blue and do some cleanup in the 3-cube cities. Here's a stream-of-consciousness of my thoughts on what to do next:

SFS drew St. Petersburg, which means that we can cure blue without me giving Toronto to Jimmmmm in Toronto. It would require Jimmmmm's turn to be: Drive to Chicago, receive St. Petersburg from SFS, drive to Atlanta, cure blue. After we have the cure, both Toronto and New York will be easier to clean up, since it makes us all act like a Medic, and the Medic can clean a city just by being in it. SFS's next turn is the last one where we're guaranteed not to get an epidemic, so it might be best used to totally clear Toronto and New York after Jimmmmm finds the cure for blue.

This leaves open the question of what shraeye and I should do this turn. Lima and Jo'burg are our other 3-cube cities. I have Lima, so I could use two actions to fly there and treat a cube. There are quite a few options for my other two actions. I could treat another cube in Lima. I could build a Research Station (RS) in Lima, or I could drive to MC or Bogata and then build a RS. The latter two cities have more neighbors, but they're also closer to the RS in Atlanta. [OPTION A]

Another crazy thought is that I could drive 3 times to get to Lima and treat 1 cube, which means I could hold onto Lima so that on my next turn I could do something like treat 1 cube and then fly anywhere in the world that we're having trouble at that point. Since I'm the Operations Expert, I could build a RS wherever I fly to, which could make it easier to get to the most important areas for other players.

So, I'm now leaning toward this second plan of driving all the way to Lima and treating 1 cube, with the plan of chartering a flight out of Lima on my next turn (possibly after treating one cube). [OPTION B]

If I do that, I think shraeye's best option would still be to drive to MC and fly to Jo'burg to totally clean it up. Then, if SFS cleans up Toronto and New York entirely on his turn, we will have cleaned up any 3-cube cities that we currently have. Of course, since there was an epidemic, all the infection cards that we've already seen were shuffled on top of the deck, so places like MC and Ho Chi Minh City may get up to 3 by then. And I just realized NYC might outbreak, where Lima will not, since it was just drawn and is in the discard pile.

So, if we're worried about NYC outbreaking, maybe I should scrap all the Lima plans and clean it up on my turn instead of waiting for SFS's turn. I could drive there and clean 1 cube and build a RC there. It's not worthwhile for me to treat 2 cubes, since once we have the cure we can treat all of them in one action. And if Toronto and NYC have 2 cubes each, we're not at risk for an outbreak in either until after SFS's turn. I can save Lima and maybe fly there on my next turn. [OPTION C]

Of the 3 options above, I'm now leaning toward OPTION C, which would prevent an outbreak in NYC and leave Jo'burg the only city capable of outbreak during the Infector part of my turn. shraeye can clean up Jo'burg, Jimmmmm can cure blue, and SFS can do some treating (or we can switch plans depending on what happens by that point). Sound good?

[Schneau]

I think it's not worthwhile to build a RS in Chicago for a faster cure - I think it's more important for me to treat NYC. I'm going to go get some breakfast, and after that take my move to treat NYC and build a RS there unless someone disagrees with that.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

We likely have a short interval between now and the next epidemic.  50 Player cards were divided into equal piles (say 12 each), with one EPIDEMIC card in each pile.  Our first Epidemic was 4 cards in, so we should have AT LEAST 8 more cards (4 people's turns) before the next one, possibly a lot more.

It's exactly 5 Epidemic cards within 50 cards, so that's 10 cards per Epidemic. That means you have at least 3 turns without Epidemic.

Thanks for the reinforcement, I had forgotten that was stated in the OP.  Note to self: Normal game, not Introductory game.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

My comments/questions are in line, in bold red.

-snip-

SFS drew St. Petersburg, which means that we can cure blue without me giving Toronto to Jimmmmm in Toronto. It would require Jimmmmm's turn to be: Drive to Chicago, receive St. Petersburg from SFS, drive to Atlanta, cure blue. I see him spending the action to get to Atlanta as better than you building a RS in Chicago on your way elsewhere. After we have the cure, both Toronto and New York will be easier to clean up, since it makes us all act like a Medic I had missed this little detail somehow, and the Medic can clean a city just by being in it. SFS's next turn is the last one where we're guaranteed not to get an epidemic, so it might be best used to totally clear Toronto and New York after Jimmmmm finds the cure for blue. I was already thinking in these terms, as I can drive from NY to London or Madrid to begin clearing blue cubes over there on my T3.

This leaves open the question of what shraeye and I should do this turn. Lima and Jo'burg are our other 3-cube cities. I have Lima, so I could use two actions to fly there and treat a cube. There are quite a few options for my other two actions. I could treat another cube in Lima. I could build a Research Station (RS) in Lima, or I could drive to MC or Bogata and then build a RS. The latter two cities have more neighbors, but they're also closer to the RS in Atlanta. [OPTION A]

Another crazy thought is that I could drive 3 times to get to Lima and treat 1 cube, which means I could hold onto Lima so that on my next turn I could do something like treat 1 cube and then fly anywhere in the world that we're having trouble at that point. Since I'm the Operations Expert, I could build a RS wherever I fly to, which could make it easier to get to the most important areas for other players.

So, I'm now leaning toward this second plan of driving all the way to Lima and treating 1 cube, with the plan of chartering a flight out of Lima on my next turn (possibly after treating one cube). [OPTION B]  I like option B best for your turn, as it preserves your transportation options for later.

If I do that, I think shraeye's best option would still be to drive to MC and fly to Jo'burg to totally clean it up. Then, if SFS cleans up Toronto and New York entirely on his turn, we will have cleaned up any 3-cube cities that we currently have. Of course, since there was an epidemic, all the infection cards that we've already seen were shuffled on top of the deck, so places like MC and Ho Chi Minh City may get up to 3 by then. And I just realized NYC might outbreak, where Lima will not, since it was just drawn and is in the discard pile.

So, if we're worried about NYC outbreaking, maybe I should scrap all the Lima plans and clean it up on my turn instead of waiting for SFS's turn. I could drive there and clean 1 cube and build a RC there. It's not worthwhile for me to treat 2 cubes, since once we have the cure we can treat all of them in one action. And if Toronto and NYC have 2 cubes each, we're not at risk for an outbreak in either until after SFS's turn. I can save Lima and maybe fly there on my next turn. [OPTION C] I think we take a chance on NYC outbreaking, and you should stick to option B.  Once the cure for blue is in place, I can do a lot of cleaning up in one turn, and I'm already in the area.

Of the 3 options above, I'm now leaning toward OPTION C, which would prevent an outbreak in NYC and leave Jo'burg the only city capable of outbreak during the Infector part of my turn. shraeye can clean up Jo'burg, Jimmmmm can cure blue, and SFS can do some treating (or we can switch plans depending on what happens by that point). Sound good?  Again, I'm against this plan, and am in favor of Option B.  With the infector cards we know are on top, I feel like we have time before red and black get hot, and we should continue beating on blue and yellow while we are nearby.

One other thought.  My staying in the same (relative) area means I'm likely driving, not spending cards to travel.  I would therefore be accumulating cards.  Is my having larger handsizes something to keep in mind, given my ability to GIVE away cards during my turn (up to 4 per turn).  I'm not suggesting we make this a huge factor in the game; rather, I'm asking if it is something to consider in close decisions (a tie-breaker, so to speak, in tough calls).

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I think it's not worthwhile to build a RS in Chicago for a faster cure - I think it's more important for me to treat NYC. I'm going to go get some breakfast, and after that take my move to treat NYC and build a RS there unless someone disagrees with that.

Please see my post from when you were at breakfast.  Also, my general question from #55 still stands (except now we may be considering an RS in NYC instead of Chicago):  Is it wasteful to create a Research Station so close to another?

[Schneau]

Please see my post from when you were at breakfast.  Also, my general question from #55 still stands (except now we may be considering an RS in NYC instead of Chicago):  Is it wasteful to create a Research Station so close to another?

It is a bit wasteful, but if I have no other options that seem better, it could be useful.

With SFS's input, I'm now on the fence again between options B and C. Note that by SFS's turn, we will see 6 out of the 10 infection cards that we have already seen from:

Mexico City, Johannesburg, Bogotá, Chicago , Toronto , Madrid, New York, Ho Chi Minh City, Cairo, Riyadh

This means we're facing a 6/10 risk of NYC outbreaking. Plus, if we get both Toronto and NYC by that point, we will face at least 2 outbreaks, with the possibility of 3 (if we get NYC and then Toronto, Toronto will outbreak and NYC will chain outbreak). This seems pretty scary, and can all be avoided if I treat NYC. Basically, we are trading off eliminating an outbreak possibility in NYC vs. having better positioning and spread on the board. I'm still leaning toward option C, but will wait to see what the others think before moving.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Please see my post from when you were at breakfast.  Also, my general question from #55 still stands (except now we may be considering an RS in NYC instead of Chicago):  Is it wasteful to create a Research Station so close to another?

It is a bit wasteful, but if I have no other options that seem better, it could be useful.

With SFS's input, I'm now on the fence again between options B and C. Note that by SFS's turn, we will see 6 out of the 10 infection cards that we have already seen from:

Mexico City, Johannesburg, Bogotá, Chicago , Toronto , Madrid, New York, Ho Chi Minh City, Cairo, Riyadh

This means we're facing a 6/10 risk of NYC outbreaking. Plus, if we get both Toronto and NYC by that point, we will face at least 2 outbreaks, with the possibility of 3 (if we get NYC and then Toronto, Toronto will outbreak and NYC will chain outbreak). This seems pretty scary, and can all be avoided if I treat NYC. Basically, we are trading off eliminating an outbreak possibility in NYC vs. having better positioning and spread on the board. I'm still leaning toward option C, but will wait to see what the others think before moving.

It does seem scary, but if you take option B, we would have options against yellow that we currently don't have, whereas we are NOT weaponless against blue (I'm nearby, Shraeye is nearby and is medic even without a cure for blue in place), especially in the geographic area where we are potentially at most (blue) risk.

I would argue this:  Yellow cities are currently at 3, 3, 2, and 1 cubes, we have only 1 person remotely near any of that, and that person needs to move north, away from the problem.
Blue cities are at 3, 2, 2, and 1 cubes (a slightly better situation for us than with yellow, cube wise), and we have (relatively) lots of resources nearby, with more powerful weapons (a cure) on the way, which in turn makes us all medics for blue.  Once a cure is in place, any 1 person can clean up two (driving distance) cities in one turn, no matter how many cubes.

I understand that the NY card could come up again, quickly.  But so could Jo'berg. However, you've stated your thoughts twice, so I am completely open to the fact that I've missed something important in your concern about NYC.  I'll go back and look at your discussion of the outbreaks and subsequent potential chains.  I will fully support whatever decision you make.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I think I understand now. Let's forget Jo'berg for a moment (few neighbors, no cubes in those neighbors, so if we draw Jo'berg, fewer issues).

I was thinking that situation in NYC/Toronto/Madrid was identical to Lima/Mex. City/Bogata. Cube-wise it is, but BOTH Toronto and NYC are drawable, and ONLY Mex. City is drawable.  You effectively said this, and I just didn't absorb it.  I now agree that from the standpoint of potential bad developments, NYC/Toronto has a higher probability of occurring, and occurring potentially in the worst way.

So the question then becomes what is the best tradeoff.  Take the risk of the worse outcome, knowing we have better resources close by to deal with it if it occurs, or be proactive. Shraeye can still get to Mex. City with one action, cure all cubes, drive to Lima, cure all cubes.

Ok, I'm convinced.  You had it right with Option C (or some version of it).  Let's save our butts w/r/t blue.  (Sorry this took me so long to grasp).

[shraeye]

Yeah, I also support option C.  NewYork outbreaking is a strong possibility and if NewYork gets drawn before then we're looking at 5 new blue cubes and two outbreaks.  Whether or not we have the blue cure, I'm worried.

If J-burg outbreaks, I'll be there soon, and that's only 2 extra cubes I have to clean up.

[Schneau]

I think I understand now. Let's forget Jo'berg for a moment (few neighbors, no cubes in those neighbors, so if we draw Jo'berg, fewer issues).

I was thinking that situation in NYC/Toronto/Madrid was identical to Lima/Mex. City/Bogata. Cube-wise it is, but BOTH Toronto and NYC are drawable, and ONLY Mex. City is drawable.  You effectively said this, and I just didn't absorb it.  I now agree that from the standpoint of potential bad developments, NYC/Toronto has a higher probability of occurring, and occurring potentially in the worst way.

So the question then becomes what is the best tradeoff.  Take the risk of the worse outcome, knowing we have better resources close by to deal with it if it occurs, or be proactive. Shraeye can still get to Mex. City with one action, cure all cubes, drive to Lima, cure all cubes.

Ok, I'm convinced.  You had it right with Option C (or some version of it).  Let's save our butts w/r/t blue.  (Sorry this took me so long to grasp).

No problems . I agree that there are non-trivial tradeoffs to consider, and I like your summary of them. But, I'm most concerned about the chained outbreaks in NYC/Toronto, so I'm going to prevent those. Also, shraeye has the option to move to Lima in 3 drives and treat all its cubes, with the ability to drive to MC and fly out of it on his next turn to go to Jo'burg or wherever else is looking bad. So, we have options there.

Here's my turn:
1) Drive to Washington
2) Drive to New York
3) Treat 1 cube
4) Build Research Station (special ability of Operations Expert)

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

And so that I can learn, why did you choose to build the RS, rather than say, treat another cube (or even drive to Toronto, since you would then have double transportation flexibility with Toronto AND Lima in your hand)?

[shraeye]

I'm not sure what his reasons are, but I think here are some benefits to that move.

That Research Station is closer to a few places that already have cubes (Toronto, New York, Madrid, Paris) than Atlanta is.  The research stations will help us move around much faster in the future, and will not limit us to flying where our cards are.  Also, moving NY from 2 cubes to 1 cube isn't as important, as it's only going to grow by 1 in the future (so no risk of outbreak until after our next Epidemic) and once we have the blue cure, we can remove all the cubes at once.

Cities at 3 are VERY dangerous, especially if the cities nearby are already infected.  Cities at 2 are much less risky, so removing the second disease isn't critical.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Thanks, that helps.  I suspect that we eventually need to aim for 1 RS per continent, roughly.

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Atlanta, Bangkok.

Infector: Bogotá, Johannesburg

Outbreak 1: Disease in Khartoum, Kinshasa



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, San Francisco, Washington, New York

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, St. Petersburg

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto, Atlanta, Bangkok

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City

shraeye's next.

[Schneau]

I'm not sure what his reasons are, but I think here are some benefits to that move.

That Research Station is closer to a few places that already have cubes (Toronto, New York, Madrid, Paris) than Atlanta is.  The research stations will help us move around much faster in the future, and will not limit us to flying where our cards are.  Also, moving NY from 2 cubes to 1 cube isn't as important, as it's only going to grow by 1 in the future (so no risk of outbreak until after our next Epidemic) and once we have the blue cure, we can remove all the cubes at once.

Cities at 3 are VERY dangerous, especially if the cities nearby are already infected.  Cities at 2 are much less risky, so removing the second disease isn't critical.

This accurately presents my thoughts. Treating a second cube in NYC didn't seem worthwhile, since once we have the cure we can treat both remaining cubes at once. I did consider moving to Toronto, but decided having another RS would be good even if it's somewhat close to Atlanta. They can be very helpful to move across the board, especially since we don't have a Dispatcher.

[Schneau]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Atlanta, Bangkok.

Infector: Bogotá, Johannesburg

Outbreak 1: Disease in Khartoum, Kinshasa

Well, the Jo'burg outbreak would have been inevitable either way. I definitely think shraeye should clean up some yellow, but don't know the best place. Let's check out what we know about the infection deck:

Infection discard: Paris, Lima, Johannesburg, Bogotá
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Mexico City, Chicago , Toronto , Madrid, New York, Ho Chi Minh City, Cairo, Riyadh

shraeye could cure MC, Bogota, or Lima without flying, or two of these (or cure Jo'burg) flying with his MC card. Just about any of these seem reasonable to me.

[Jimmmmm]

We were actually pretty lucky with the first epidemic I think. You generally want the first one to come earlier rather than later, because two very close together can be devastating, and can lead to two cities which have 3 cubes being very close to the top of the infection pile. New York was also a nice one to get, since it's close to where we all are, and we're about to get the cure for that colour.

A bit unlucky with Jo'burg, of course. Bear in mind that removing the cubes from Kinshasa and Khartoum is more important than normal because of the possibility of getting one of these from the bottom of the infection deck, triggering an instant outbreak.

We're now safe from further outbreaks until the next epidemic (no earlier than the end of SFS's next turn), since Lima and Jo'burg are both in the discard pile. Of course, we still want to get to these as soon as we can.

[Jimmmmm]

I think it might be a good idea for Schneau to fly to Jo'burg from Toronto on his next turn, remove one cube and build there. It's possible that it could outbreak again before then, but very unlikely (~2.5% if my very quick arithmetic is anything to go by). That leaves Lima as the priority for shraeye.

[shraeye]

Cool, I got some thoughts.

1. I could go SaoPaolo, Lagos, Kinshasa, treat to deal with that outbreak immediately
2. I could fly Algiers, Cairo, Khartoum, treat (deals with outbreak immediately and start saving yellow cards for cure)
3. I could go to MC, treat all, Lima, treat all (and deal with the outbreak next turn)
4. I could drive Miami, MC, treat all, fly to J-burg (a bit of progress towards both goals)
5. I could drive Miami, MC, fly to Jburg, treat all (this was a possible plan before, but I think it's less strong now that Jburg has already been drawn)

but I think the strongest is
6. drive Miami, drive to Bogota, treat, drive to SaoPaolo (this leaves Lima and MC alone, but let's me save my yellow cards for now, and next turn goes fly to Jburg, treat all, to Kinshasa, treat unless something else comes up)


But I didn't take into account Jimmm's plan for Schneau to build a Res-station in Jburg next turn.  thinking about this, I may drive Miami, Bogota, Lima, treat all.  It saves all my yellow cards for now, and I'm ready to deal with Bogota and MC soon.  This leaves Africa completely up to other people.

[Schneau]

But I didn't take into account Jimmm's plan for Schneau to build a Res-station in Jburg next turn.  thinking about this, I may drive Miami, Bogota, Lima, treat all.  It saves all my yellow cards for now, and I'm ready to deal with Bogota and MC soon.  This leaves Africa completely up to other people.

I like this option. It would be nice to not worry about Lima. Another option is to Drive to Miami, MC, treat, drive to Lima. Since Lima has come up this time through and MC has not, MC should have about the same priority as Lima. Bogota has already come up, so it's not as worrisome. And since Jimmmmm won't have extra actions to treat MC, it would be good to clear it on the way to Lima. So, either of these plans has you end up in Lima, and either clears MC or Lima. I'd slightly prefer clearing MC, but like both options.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I like the idea of Shraeye keeping his yellow cards, especially with Lima available to be transferred to him, either directly from Jimmm at somepoint (while in this hemisphere) or indirectly through me, since Jimmm and I will be together in Chicago (or Toronto) soon.

[shraeye]

some minor mistakes, SFS.  Schneau has Lima, and he can't pass the cards through you as you still have a receiving restriciton, just not a passing one.  So for you to have Lima, Schneau would have to give you it while you're both in Lima.

@Schneau, I prefer treating Lima for the same reason you prefer MC.  Lima has already come up this cycle.  That means MC will have 3 cubes instead of 2 sometime later, and that would be an optimal time for me to treat all there.  I feel like it's stronger if I clear 3 cubes at once instead of 2 cubes at once, and then somebody clears 1 later.

[Jimmmmm]

I think Lima has a slightly higher priority than MC, since it's possible that MC won't even get to 3 before the next epidemic. Of course, it is possible that MC will be hit twice before shraeye's next turn, but again very unlikely I think. I think either driving to Lima, or flying to MC and then driving to Lima would both be okay, depending on how much of a risk you think it is leaving MC for another 4 turns.

[shraeye]

I think leaving MC is a low-medium risk, especially if I have the card in my hand.  I'm not sure how MC could stay at 2 until the next epidemic, but maybe I'm missing something.

I think I'm ready to take my turn,
Drive to Miami
Drive to Bogota
Drive to Lima
Treat Disease

Does anybody have strong objections to that, before I post it bold?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

No objection here.  Sorry about the mis-attribution of the Lima card.  I think I've got the researcher thing solidified in my brain now, but I make no guarantees.

I did go out and buy this game this afternoon, and will try to start a game this evening with my GF.

[Jimmmmm]

I think leaving MC is a low-medium risk, especially if I have the card in my hand.

What makes MC a risk at all is that with 4 players, it's so long until your next turn

I'm not sure how MC could stay at 2 until the next epidemic, but maybe I'm missing something.

The minimum number of infection cards to be drawn before the next epidemic is 4, and MC is somewhere in the top 9 cards of the infection deck.

[shraeye]

No objection here.  Sorry about the mis-attribution of the Lima card.  I think I've got the researcher thing solidified in my brain now, but I make no guarantees.

I did go out and buy this game this afternoon, and will try to start a game this evening with my GF.

Yeah, this looks like a sweet game.  I probably will buy in in the future as well

I'm not sure how MC could stay at 2 until the next epidemic, but maybe I'm missing something.

The minimum number of infection cards to be drawn before the next epidemic is 4, and MC is somewhere in the top 9 cards of the infection deck.

Aha! I keep confusing the Infector cards and the player cards in my mind.  Thanks!

Also, if feels sooooo liberating to use the Edit button

[Schneau]

I think leaving MC is a low-medium risk, especially if I have the card in my hand.  I'm not sure how MC could stay at 2 until the next epidemic, but maybe I'm missing something.

I think I'm ready to take my turn,
Drive to Miami
Drive to Bogota
Drive to Lima
Treat Disease

Does anybody have strong objections to that, before I post it bold?

I like this, especially given your point about MC being better to totally clear once it has 3 cubes. Plus, if you're in MC at some point next turn, you'd be able to fly from there if need-be. Go for it!

[shraeye]

Then let it happen Qvist

1. Drive to Miami
2. Drive to Bogota
3. Drive to Lima
4. Treat Disease

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws London, Istanbul.

Infector: New York, Mexico City



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, San Francisco, Washington, New York

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, St. Petersburg

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto, Atlanta, Bangkok

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul

Jimmmmm's next.

[Jimmmmm]

Drive to Chicago
Share Knowledge with SwitchedFromStarcraft, taking St. Petersburg
Drive to Atlanta
Discover the Blue Cure (discard San Francisco, Washington, New York, St. Petersburg)

[shraeye]

Qvist, shouldn't all of the Lima cubes be gone?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist, shouldn't all of the Lima cubes be gone?

reposted to add bold

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, as infectors go, that one was pretty lucky. My potential moves in a few minutes.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, we are all medics w/r/t blue. I'm standing in Chicago, so I'm thinking:

1) Drive to Toronto
2) Treat disease (gets rid of both cubes)
3) Drive to NYC
4) Drive to Madrid

That would let me eradicate blue on my next turn (assuming Schneau spends his first action by treating NYC), and would put me out in the field.  I think I should keep Sydney, for transportation purposes. Thoughts?  I'm off to dinner.

[Jimmmmm]

Well, we are all medics w/r/t blue. I'm standing in Chicago, so I'm thinking:

And, don't forget, shraeye can now remove all blue cubes just by being there

That would let me eradicate blue on my next turn (assuming Schneau spends his first action by treating NYC), and would put me out in the field.  I think I should keep Sydney, for transportation purposes. Thoughts?  I'm off to dinner.

Don't focus too much on eradication. It's nice if you can pull it off, but quite often not worth the trouble. Not saying that your suggested move isn't a good one, just in general the colours with more cubes and no cure usually need more attention than those with less cubes and the cure.

[Qvist]

Sorry about that Lima mistake. It's now fixed.

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Kolkata, Tehran.

Infector: Chicago, Ho Chi Minh City



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto, Atlanta, Bangkok

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul

SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[Schneau]

Now that blue has been cured, blue cards are only useful for catching flights and building research stations (if you're not me). So, I imagine my next turn will involve treating NYC, moving to Toronto, flying somewhere useful (probably HCMC or somewhere in Africa), and building a RS so that other people can follow me faster. I don't know what would be best for SFS to do, but likely should be something with Toronto or MC.

For reference:
Infection discard: Paris, Lima, Johannesburg, Bogotá, Mexico City, New York, Chicago, Ho Chi Minh City
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh
Next epidemic: Any turn after SFS's current turn

[Jimmmmm]

Seeing as an epidemic is now possible at the end of SFS's turn, we need to get to those critical cities. I suggest SFS drives/ferries to San Francisco, Manila, Ho Chi Minh, and treats one there, and Schneau flies out from Toronto to Jo'burg. shraeye is in a really good spot, because he can treat Mexico City and anywhere else that's needed, so I guess we're probably hoping for the epidemic before his turn so he knows where to go.

[shraeye]

I can definitely slay a lot of disease cubes by going MC, treat, chicago (auto-treat), toronto (autotreat).  Then I'm close to a research station in NY that I can use to go to whereever Schneau builds a new one.

We need a plan to address Jburg, HCMC, and also Kinshasa and Khartoum are dangerous for us now.  Possibly it's more important that I focus on that instead of clearing MC and blue.  What are the rules with regard to Blue growing now that we ahve the cure?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, I just lost my first game, and I think it's because we didn't deal with what we could while we were there.  I agree though, that in theory blue is less of an issue.

I see two choices:
a) Drive to Mex. City, treat one cube, direct flight to Sydney, drive to Manila.  It gets me close to HCM city for my next turn.
b) Drive to San Fran, drive to manila, drive to HCM city, treat one cube.

Either option takes a 3-cube city to a 2-cube city, and leaves another 3-cube city.  However, option A puts me in range of the neglected city, and option makes Mex City somebody else's problem. So two questions:

1) Is there another option?
2) Which option do I take?

NOTE TO ALL:  I'm going offshore fishing tomorrow, and will be unavailable from the time I say goodnight until about 15:00 forum time tomorrow afternoon.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I can definitely slay a lot of disease cubes by going MC, treat, chicago (auto-treat), toronto (autotreat).  Then I'm close to a research station in NY that I can use to go to whereever Schneau builds a new one.

We need a plan to address Jburg, HCMC, and also Kinshasa and Khartoum are dangerous for us now.  Possibly it's more important that I focus on that instead of clearing MC and blue.  What are the rules with regard to Blue growing now that we ahve the cure?

Blue continues to be handed out during infector phase if a blue card is drawn.  Blue infector cards only become irrelevant after the blue disease is eradicated.  So if we don't eradicate now, the blue cubes will continue to spring up. (I'm not using that to argue for blue cleanup.)

[Schneau]

Well, I just lost my first game, and I think it's because we didn't deal with what we could while we were there.  I agree though, that in theory blue is less of an issue.

I see two choices:
a) Drive to Mex. City, treat one cube, direct flight to Sydney, drive to Manila.  It gets me close to HCM city for my next turn.
b) Drive to San Fran, drive to manila, drive to HCM city, treat one cube.

Either option takes a 3-cube city to a 2-cube city, and leaves another 3-cube city.  However, option A puts me in range of the neglected city, and option makes Mex City somebody else's problem. So two questions:

1) Is there another option?
2) Which option do I take?

NOTE TO ALL:  I'm going offshore fishing tomorrow, and will be unavailable from the time I say goodnight until about 15:00 forum time tomorrow afternoon.

At first I thought you were saying we had lost this game, but realized you meant you played IRL and lost. Don't take it too hard - I haven't won any of the 3 games I've played!

Those are the only options I see too. shraeye is closer to MC, which might be an argument for going to HCMC. I could see either way.

[shraeye]

I think Schneau can deal with Jburg, I can get MC easy, so SFS should probably focus on HCMC.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Shraeye? Jim is offline, but you are here.  Wanna weigh in before I move?

Ninja'd, let me read.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

OK, HCM City it is.

My turn is:

1) Drive to San Fran
2) Drive to Manila
3) Drive to Ho Chi Minh City
4) Treat one cube

I'll let you guys know before I go to bed.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Just lost my 2nd IRL game.  First loss we ran out of red cubes.  Second loss we had 9 outbreaks, all in yellow, which we had a cure for early and didn't press to eradicate (though it did build very quickly, and the shuffle luck was bad).  Fascinating game, it will keep us busy for some time.

I check in again before I retire.

[Schneau]

Qvist is in a European time zone, right? He might be asleep, in which case we'll have to wait for morning. I'm about to head to bed myself and dream of little disease cubes.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist is in a European time zone, right? He might be asleep, in which case we'll have to wait for morning. I'm about to head to bed myself and dream of little disease cubes.

Yes, his profile says he's in Germany.  So I am off to bed.  You guys do what you need to tomorrow, and I'll check in mid to late afternoon.

[Jimmmmm]

2) Drive to Manila

I wish my car could do that!

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws Miami, EPIDEMIC.

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in Los Angeles (3 cubes)
Intensify: Infection Discard Pile is shuffled and placed on top of the draw pile.
Infector: Lima, New York

Outbreak 2: Disease in London, Madrid, Toronto, Washington



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Toronto, Atlanta, Bangkok

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul

Schneau's next.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: Lima, New York
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Paris, Johannesburg, Bogotá, Mexico City, Chicago, Ho Chi Minh City, Los Angeles
Infection next on top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh

Good News: We know Toronto will come up in our 4th turn from now at the soonest. NYC won't hit again until the next epidemic.
Bad News: MC, Jo'burg, and Los Angeles are all very-real outbreak possibilities in the next turn or 2.

[Schneau]

Since we know Toronto and New York won't come up in the next 3 turns, I think I should ignore them for now. Los Angeles and MC are scary, but there's not much I can do about them. shraeye can clean both up on his next turn, and if we get lucky neither will outbreak on my turn (if we're unlucky, both will). Jimmmmm can shuttle flight from the RS in Atlanta to the one in NYC, which means he could clean up NYC and Toronto on his turn. So, here's what I propose for my moves:

1) Drive to Toronto
2) Fly to Jo'burg
3) Treat 1 cube
4) Build RS

Instead of building a RS I could substitute treating NYC or Toronto, which would make Jimmmmm's job easier. Maybe I should treat Toronto, and Jimmmmm can move on to the Madrid / Paris area that's about to become bad. At the same time, having the RS in Jo'burg would be nice, but maybe it can wait one round. Thoughts?

[shraeye]

My thoughts, you should treat one in Toronto, then treat one in Jburg.

I can move to MC, treat that, then drive to LA, treat that

That leaves NY as the only city with 3 at the end of my turn, and it can't come up for a bit.

A future turn by me could be simply clearing out Blue (fly to London, drive to Paris, Madrid, NY), or focusing on new problems if we have them.

[Schneau]

My thoughts, you should treat one in Toronto, then treat one in Jburg.

I can move to MC, treat that, then drive to LA, treat that

That leaves NY as the only city with 3 at the end of my turn, and it can't come up for a bit.

A future turn by me could be simply clearing out Blue (fly to London, drive to Paris, Madrid, NY), or focusing on new problems if we have them.

I agree. I'm now thinking that treating Toronto seems more important than getting a RS up this turn in Jo'burg. I definitely think we need more research stations, but I don't see one in Jo'burg getting used before my next turn, so it can wait.

So, I'm going to go ahead and:

1) Drive to Toronto
2) Treat Toronto (remove all cubes)
3) Fly to Jo'burg (discard Toronto card)
4) Treat Jo'burg (remove 1 cube)

[Jimmmmm]

Just so you know, there's a 1/21 chance that we've just lost the game. 

[Jimmmmm]

Question for Qvist: are the special event cards in the deck? I'm surprised none have come up yet.

[Schneau]

Just so you know, there's a 1/21 chance that we've just lost the game. 

I assume that's the case if MC and Los Angeles come up, causing 2 chained outbreaks? Yeah, that would be bad. But, not much I could have done about it. It's a risk we'll have to take!

[Jimmmmm]

So long as neither MC or LA come up in Schneau's turn, I think we're in a pretty good position. The position of the epidemics has been pretty good, and we have plenty of time to get on top of them. The worst thing I think is that both have happened on SFS's turn, limiting his usefulness as a Researcher. We obviously can't afford to forget about the other cures, but I think at this stage we need more cards in order to know the best way to co-ordinate it.

[Jimmmmm]

Just so you know, there's a 1/21 chance that we've just lost the game. 

I assume that's the case if MC and Los Angeles come up, causing 2 chained outbreaks? Yeah, that would be bad. But, not much I could have done about it. It's a risk we'll have to take!

Yeah, that would cause 7 outbreaks I think, and require way more yellow cubes than we have. Wasn't a criticism at all, I think we're doing well.

[Jimmmmm]

In fact, we'll be down to 3 yellows if either one of them comes up. Good thing we have a Medic nearby!

[Schneau]

Just so you know, there's a 1/21 chance that we've just lost the game. 

I assume that's the case if MC and Los Angeles come up, causing 2 chained outbreaks? Yeah, that would be bad. But, not much I could have done about it. It's a risk we'll have to take!

Yeah, that would cause 7 outbreaks I think, and require way more yellow cubes than we have. Wasn't a criticism at all, I think we're doing well.

Didn't take it as such Just the facts of the game. We'll see what happens!

I agree that it has been unfortunate that both epidemics have hit on SFS's turns, giving him only 1 new card instead of 2 both times. That has been unlucky, but we've otherwise been mostly lucky so far!

[Qvist]

Do you really want to make that move? 

[Schneau]

Do you really want to make that move? 

Are you stacking the deck?

[Jimmmmm]

Do you really want to make that move? 

Hints from the moderator? That must be a bit uncouth.
If we're done for, just put us out of our misery already! 

[Schneau]

Actually, if we outbreak in LA and MC we're pretty dead anyway, even if I treated one cube in on of those cities. So, yes, that's my move.

[Qvist]

Schneau Operation Expert draws Karachi, Madrid.

Infector: Bogotá, Los Angeles

Outbreak 3: Disease in San Francisco, Chicago, Sydney, Mexico City
Outbreak 4: Disease in Miami, Chicago, Lima, Bogotá
Outbreak 5: Disease in Miami, Sao Paulo, Lima, Buenos Aires



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul

shraeye's next.

[Qvist]

Do you really want to make that move? 

Are you stacking the deck?

No, I'm not. But I looked at it and thought it was over. But it isn't ... yet.

[Qvist]

Do you really want to make that move? 

Hints from the moderator? That must be a bit uncouth.
If we're done for, just put us out of our misery already! 

Sorry, but I thought you might not want ruin your game after 6 turns.

[Qvist]

Question for Qvist: are the special event cards in the deck? I'm surprised none have come up yet.

I'm surprised too. But they are in.

[Schneau]

Actually, by my reading of the rules, there should be no cubes in Lima. The rules for a cured disease + Medic say that by being in a city, the medic treats all cures in that city. It does not say he has to move to that city.

Oops, we haven't cured yellow. My bad!

[Jimmmmm]

Right so obviously one of MC and LA have been hit. That results in 2 outbreaks, and puts Lima on 2, Bogota on 3, Miami on 1, Chicago on 2 yellow and 1 blue (3 of a single colour required for outbreak), and San Francisco and Sydney on 1 yellow, with 3 yellows left in the supply. shraeye, you have some work to do. Good thing we have some time up our sleeves.

[Qvist]

3 Outbreaks, Jimmmmm!

[Jimmmmm]

Whoops, totally missed the update.

And then there was Bogota. Yeah, we might be a bit screwed.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Paris, Johannesburg, Mexico City, Chicago, Ho Chi Minh City
Infection next on top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh

Possible outbreaks this turn: MC only

[Jimmmmm]

Do you really want to make that move? 

Hints from the moderator? That must be a bit uncouth.
If we're done for, just put us out of our misery already! 

Sorry, but I thought you might not want ruin your game after 6 turns.

If the game had ended now, that would suck, but that's the nature of the game.

[Schneau]

Things are not looking good. shraeye definitely needs to treat MC this turn, and probably Lima while he is there. We need to concentrate on yellow (and slightly on blue), since we are getting almost nothing in black or red. Jimmmmm would probably be best to treat LA, leaving Botota and Miami for shraeye's next turn.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, shraeye obviously has to treat MC now, and probably Lima as well since it's fairly remote, and choose one to end up out of LA and Bogota. I can work on Bogota on my turn if we think it's a priority.

[Jimmmmm]

Yes, or LA.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm back and caught up.  I think Shraeye, being medic should treat as much as possible.  We get most bang for buck, and we need yellow cubes off the board.  It's unfortunate that Mex. City is the only yellow that could outbreak, as opposed to Lima or Bogata, but oh well.  My thought for Shraeye is treat 3 cubes in Lima, drive to Mex. city, treat 3 cubes, then decide whether to drive to Bogata or drive to LA.  Beyond that, I don't know.

[Schneau]

I'm back and caught up.  I think Shraeye, being medic should treat as much as possible.  We get most bang for buck, and we need yellow cubes off the board.  It's unfortunate that Mex. City is the only yellow that could outbreak, as opposed to Lima or Bogata, but oh well.  My thought for Shraeye is treat 3 cubes, drive to Mex. city, treat 3 cubes, then decide whether to drive to Lima or drive to LA.  Beyond that, I don't know.

Agreed, though I think you mean Bogota or LA. I vote for Bogota, since it's closer to Miami for another important cleanup on his next turn. Maybe Jimmmmm could take care of LA then, and we might be doing ok.

[Jimmmmm]

Rules question (can't be bothered opening the box which is about a metre from me): can a city outbreak more than once on the same turn if each time was triggered by a different card? So would we have lost if LA came out before Bogota instead of the other way around?

[Qvist]

It can only oubreak once each chain reaction, but if I'm not wrong it could outbreak multiple time per turn, yeah.

[Schneau]

Correct. Each city may only outbreak once per infection card, but could outbreak twice (or more) in the same turn if multiple infection cards have chains that hit that city.

[shraeye]

I think I"m going to go to LA at the end.  Leaving Bogota for Jimmmm.  I'm still hopeful that my next turn can be treat LA, fly London, than Paris and Madrid.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm back and caught up.  I think Shraeye, being medic should treat as much as possible.  We get most bang for buck, and we need yellow cubes off the board.  It's unfortunate that Mex. City is the only yellow that could outbreak, as opposed to Lima or Bogata, but oh well.  My thought for Shraeye is treat 3 cubes, drive to Mex. city, treat 3 cubes, then decide whether to drive to Lima or drive to LA.  Beyond that, I don't know.

Agreed, though I think you mean Bogota or LA. I vote for Bogota, since it's closer to Miami for another important cleanup on his next turn. Maybe Jimmmmm could take care of LA then, and we might be doing ok.

You are correct, I meant Bogata or LA in that penultimate sentence.  Post #136 has now been corrected.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, it looks like things are quiet, and I've been up since 4 am, so I'm going to bed.

[shraeye]

Sorry, I'll make my move inthe morning unless there are objections.  I want to treat lima, go to MC, treat MC, then to go LA

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Sorry, I'll make my move inthe morning unless there are objections.  I want to treat lima, go to MC, treat MC, then to go LA

That sounds good.  We can only tolerate one more outbreak, so we need to get a handle on all 3-cube cities.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I also have started thinking about how to get cards to other people, and was considering (on my next turn) treating 2 cubes in HCM city and driving through Sydney to LA, so I could get 2 black cards from Shraeye, but that won't work, due to the normal constraints on OTHER players giving ME cards.  It has been tough luck that I don't have more cards than I do.

After losing the first 3 IRL games, I've now won the last two (all 2p).  In both games, we made it a priority to treat wherever we were, so that we didn't have to double back to treat.  I'm not saying it was the key to victory, but it did keep us out of trouble longer.  The special event cards were very helpful (especially in avoiding painful discards to bring handcounts back to 7.  You get to 7 cards fast in 2p.)  But our only win condition is to find 4 cures, so we need to start thinking about how to move cards around, which of course means moving people, which will involve research stations, among other factors. (In a bizarre twist, my GF and I have played 5 games total, and in every game, one of us was the dispatcher, and one was the operations expert, so we had some transportation flexibility).

Schneau - posts like 131 are extremely helpful, so thanks for keeping up with what's where.  Can you also start posting a counter to how soon the next epidemic could come up?  We've been covering that in prose, but I think it would be helpful to have it with the card location info.

[Schneau]

I also have started thinking about how to get cards to other people, and was considering (on my next turn) treating 2 cubes in HCM city and driving through Sydney to LA, so I could get 2 black cards from Shraeye, but that won't work, due to the normal constraints on OTHER players giving ME cards.  It has been tough luck that I don't have more cards than I do.

I'm starting to think it was a mistake to send SFS to HCMC - it was a lot of driving to prevent one outbreak, and we're having a lot more troubles in blue and yellow. I would have much rather had an outbreak in HCMC than MC/LA/Bogota.

[Schneau]

Schneau - posts like 131 are extremely helpful, so thanks for keeping up with what's where.  Can you also start posting a counter to how soon the next epidemic could come up?  We've been covering that in prose, but I think it would be helpful to have it with the card location info.

Sure, though I'm having trouble figuring out when the next epidemics will come up. From my counts, in the white deck there are:

- 48 City cards (12 of each color)
- 5 Special Event cards
- 5 Epidemic cards

For a total of 58 cards. But, I remember people saying that there were only 50 cards to start, so I'm confused. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I forgot that we each started with 2 cards, which brings the starting total down to 50. Now I understand and can figure it out from here.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I also have started thinking about how to get cards to other people, and was considering (on my next turn) treating 2 cubes in HCM city and driving through Sydney to LA, so I could get 2 black cards from Shraeye, but that won't work, due to the normal constraints on OTHER players giving ME cards.  It has been tough luck that I don't have more cards than I do.

I'm starting to think it was a mistake to send SFS to HCMC - it was a lot of driving to prevent one outbreak, and we're having a lot more troubles in blue and yellow. I would have much rather had an outbreak in HCMC than MC/LA/Bogota.

Agreed.  The good news is I can get back quickly by flying to Miami (spend a yellow card, but hey, gotta go into hot zones), then treat 1 in miami, drive to Bogata, treat 1 (or skip treating miami and treat two in Bogata).  Red and black are under control, and if we can get blue eradicated, then the blue Infector cards become free passes in each infection phase. If we are all in the same hemisphere, passing cards is easier too.

It sure seems like a balanced game.

[Schneau]

Each 10 cards has 1 Epidemic in it. Here's the drawing of cards so far:

2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
-------------------
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
______
2 - shraeye (safe) (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
-------------------
2 - Schneau
...

So, we have 3 more safe turns, with my next turn being the next possible epidemic. Also, we know:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Paris, Johannesburg, Mexico City, Chicago, Ho Chi Minh City
Infection next on top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh

Possible outbreaks this turn: MC only

From this, the next 5 cards will be Paris, Johannesburg, Mexico City, Chicago, and Ho Chi Minh City. The sixth will be one of Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, and Riyadh.

[Schneau]

Qvist: If Chicago came up right now, there would not be an outbreak, correct? Do outbreaks only happen if there are 3 of the same color cube in the city when trying to add a 4th cube of that color?

[Qvist]

Schneau, outbreaks only look at more than 3 cubes of the same color. So, there's no danger yet.

[Schneau]

Here's something to think about: We have 4 action phases before our next possible epidemic, so we should try to optimize our cleanup efforts before then as to not step on each others' toes. Without cleaning up anything, here are the cities that will have 3 cubes by next possible epidemic:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none

So, it would be best to clean up at least 1 cube in each of those cities within our next 4 turns. In my next post, I'll look at who can get to these cities the easiest.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Schneau - posts like 131 are extremely helpful, so thanks for keeping up with what's where.  Can you also start posting a counter to how soon the next epidemic could come up?  We've been covering that in prose, but I think it would be helpful to have it with the card location info.

Sure, though I'm having trouble figuring out when the next epidemics will come up. From my counts, in the white deck there are:

- 48 City cards (12 of each color)
- 5 Special Event cards
- 5 Epidemic cards

For a total of 58 cards. But, I remember people saying that there were only 50 cards to start, so I'm confused. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I forgot that we each started with 2 cards, which brings the starting total down to 50. Now I understand and can figure it out from here.

Sorry, I should have calculated present game state and given it to you.  My request is only for it to be kept current. Here is what we've got:

Qvist dealt to four players a total of 8 cards from a packet of 53 (4 colors @12 cities of each color, plus the 5 special event cards.  The epidemic cards were not in this packet yet.) 53 minus 8 equals 45 remaining cards, which were split into 5 stacks of 9 each.  An epidemic card was added to each stack of 9, making 10 in each stack.  Each stack of 10 was shuffled, and the 5 stacks of 10 were stacked to form the Player Card draw pile.

I pulled the first epidemic card at card #4 in the first packet.  The next 6 were "clean" cards and went to Schneau, Shraeye, and Jim.  I pulled the second Epidemic card as the 2nd card in 2nd "stack of 10", leaving 8 "clean" cards at that point. Schneau pulled 2 more of those in the latest turn.  So the next 6 cards should be "clean".  How you track it from here is up to you. In my IRL games, my GF incremented a "cards drawn" type counter, whereas I decremented a "clean cards remaining" type counter.

Edit: Ninja'd

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist: I've found a map error.  In post 107, the quantity of cards remaining in the Players Cards draw pile was correct at 38.  After Schneau's turn, he drew two cards, so the board in post #123 should show 36 cards remaining, not 37.

[Schneau]

Let's look at each city to see who is either in, near, or has a card for that city:

Lima: shraeye is in
LA: shraeye, Jimmmmm, and SFS are all 2 moves away.
MC: shraeye is 1 move away. This is a must-clean during his turn, since it is the only possible outbreak currently.
Bogota: shraeye is 1 move away. Jimmmmm is 2 moves away. SFS has Miami, and could fly/drive to get there in 2 moves.
Jo'burg: Schneau is in
(Miami: SFS has this card and could clean Miami and/or Bogota by using it)

(Madrid: Schneau has this card)
New York: Jimmmmm is 2 moves away. If Schneau flies to Madrid, he'll be 1 move away
Paris: No one is really close except for maybe Schneau if he flies to Madrid.

HCMC: SFS is in

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Here's something to think about: We have 4 action phases before our next possible epidemic, so we should try to optimize our cleanup efforts before then as to not step on each others' toes. Without cleaning up anything, here are the cities that will have 3 cubes by next possible epidemic:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none

So, it would be best to clean up at least 1 cube in each of those cities within our next 4 turns. In my next post, I'll look at who can get to these cities the easiest.

In doing your analysis, remember that with the blue cure already found, it only takes 1 action to remove ALL the blue cubes in a city.  (Someone coined this notion "auto-treat" in an earlier post).

[Qvist]

Qvist: I've found a map error.  In post 107, the quantity of cards remaining in the Players Cards draw pile was correct at 38.  After Schneau's turn, he drew two cards, so the board in post #123 should show 36 cards remaining, not 37.

Thanks for the hint. I look into that later, probably with the next update.

[Schneau]

Qvist: What would happen if Jimmmmm treated Chicago as it currently is? Would 1 blue cube and 1 yellow cube be removed, since we have a cure for blue? Or, would only one cube be removed? If so, would we choose which color?

[Schneau]

Based on which cities are critical by next possible epidemic, here's some possible moves for our next 4:

shraeye: Medic-Treat Lima, drive to MC, Medic-Treat MC, (drive to LA?)

Jimmmmm: 2 possibilities here:
A: Drive to Chicago, treat Chicago, drive to LA, treat LA
B: Drive to Washington, (treat Washington), Drive to NYC, Treat NYC, (drive to Madrid)

SFS: Treat HCMC, fly to Miami, drive to Bogota, Treat Bogota

Schneau: Treat Jo'burg, fly to Madrid, drive to Paris, Auto-treat Paris


Depending on what Jimmmmm does, this treats every possible 3-cube city by our next possible epidemic besides NYC or LA (depending on which Jimmmmm skips). I think this is our best chance of surviving the next epidemic. If we don't get an epidemic on my next turn, it will allow shraeye to clean up LA, which probably means it is best for Jimmmmm to take the NYC route.

[Qvist]

Qvist: What would happen if Jimmmmm treated Chicago as it currently is? Would 1 blue cube and 1 yellow cube be removed, since we have a cure for blue? Or, would only one cube be removed? If so, would we choose which color?

You ask a lot of questions! 
It works like that: Choose a cube you want to remove. If there are other cubes of the same color and the cure is already discovered, remove all other cubes with the same color. So it costs 3 actions to clean out Chicago. And yeah, you may choose which cube you remove first.

[Schneau]

Qvist: What would happen if Jimmmmm treated Chicago as it currently is? Would 1 blue cube and 1 yellow cube be removed, since we have a cure for blue? Or, would only one cube be removed? If so, would we choose which color?

You ask a lot of questions! 
It works like that: Choose a cube you want to remove. If there are other cubes of the same color and the cure is already discovered, remove all other cubes with the same color. So it costs 3 actions to clean out Chicago. And yeah, you may choose which cube you remove first.

Thanks for your replies, just wasn't sure.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Shraeye, in case my recent posts have created the wrong impression, I agree with your proposed move, just as you wrote it last night.  All of my posts since then have been more about longer term thinking.  We absolutely have to get yellow off the board - there are zero cubes available to hand out.  Your plan maximizes that, in my opinion.

[Schneau]

Shraeye, in case my recent posts have created the wrong impression, I agree with your proposed move, just as you wrote it last night.  All of my posts since then have been more about longer term thinking.  We absolutely have to get yellow off the board - there are zero cubes available to hand out.  Your plan maximizes that, in my opinion.

Ditto and agreed.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Having said that, my GF has just drawn medic, and in reviewing the rules, I have a question applicable to this game, and potentially this move.  Stand by.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

The rules for medic read (broken into pieces, in order):

"The Medic may remove all the cubes of a single color (instead of 1) when performing the Treat Disease action".  I think this is clear.  Next part:

"Also if the medic at any time finds herself in a city that contains cubes of a disease that has been cured, she may immediately remove all of those cubes. This unique ability is in effect during all players' turns and does not cost any action to perform."  This two-sentence section confuses me a bit, AND needs to be looked at more closely.

I am pretty clear that the part in red does not mean "all of those cubes (of that color) on the whole board".  If it did, medic games would be much easier.  But I do think the purple part means that if the medic can just get to a city with NO remaining actions left in his turn, then on the very next player's turn, the medic can treat all the cubes (of the cured color) in the city he's standing in, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NO LONGER THE MEDIC'S TURN, AND WITHOUT SPENDING ANY OF THE (THEN) CURRENT PLAYER'S ACTIONS.  If this is indeed true, we may have missed an opportunity on Shraeye's first turn (haven't looked back) and we don't want to do that here.

So, three questions:

1) Is my interpretation of the purple part correct?
2) If so, then does Shraeye need to rethink his turn (possibly not, but it may mean he can clear LA on Jimmm's turn)
3) If the interpretation is NOT correct, what does the purple part mean, exactly?

Edit:  My GF has suggested that the red part DOES indeed mean "all of the cubes of the color that has been cured can be taken off the board by the medic if they are standing in a city that contains at least one cube of that color.  She bases that interpretation on the ABSENCE of the phrase "in your current city" immediately behind the red part above.  This is in contrast to the   final sentence under "Treat Disease" in the rules.  (This is the sentence that gives the non-medics the ability to treat all the cubes in a city with only one action, if a cure for that color has been found).  That sentence reads (underline added for emphasis):

"If players have discovered a cure, instead of one cube, remove all cubes of a cured disease in your current city for one action."  Once it was pointed out to me, I found the contrast rather stark.

[Qvist]

That means that he can cure diseases basically "en passant". Let's say shraeye stands on St. Petersburg and it is drawn from the Infection pile. The cube gets immediately removed. The part "during all players' turn" is especially relevant in conjunction with the Dispatcher. The Dispatcher can move the Medic around and remove the cubes while moving him.

But I'm not sure how that could have been relevant on shraeye's first turn as the blue disease wasn't cured yet.

[Schneau]

Yup, your interpretation is correct. In fact, the cubes are removed immediately when he moves into a city with cubes of a cured color. So, if he moved MC->Treat->Chicago, all BLUE cubes in Chicago would be removed immediately. In fact, since it doesn't even have to be his turn, if he is in a blue city that would have cubes added to it (say, from an infection card), they would be removed immediately without anyone taking any action.

But, I don't think this changes our optimal play. We need him to clear yellow cubes fast, and we don't really have a good way to get him to problem blue cities. We could have him drive MC, treat MC, fly to London (auto-treat) fly to NYC (auto-treat). But, that leaves LA, Bogota, and Lima in too bad of positions IMO.

[Schneau]

Edit:  My GF has suggested that the red part DOES indeed mean "all of the cubes of the color that has been cured can be taken off the board by the medic if they are standing in a city that contains at least one cube of that color.  She bases that interpretation on the ABSENCE of the phrase "in your current city" immediately behind the red part above.  This is in contrast to the   final sentence under "Treat Disease" in the rules.  (This is the sentence that gives the non-medics the ability to treat all the cubes in a city with only one action, if a cure for that color has been found).  That sentence reads (underline added for emphasis):

"If players have discovered a cure, instead of one cube, remove all cubes of a cured disease in your current city for one action."  Once it was pointed out to me, I found the contrast rather stark.

Unfortunately, I think this just means the rules aren't detailed enough. It would be way too easy to eradicate a disease otherwise.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

That means that he can cure diseases basically "en passant". Let's say shraeye stands on St. Petersburg and it is drawn from the Infection pile. The cube gets immediately removed. The part "during all players' turn" is especially relevant in conjunction with the Dispatcher. The Dispatcher can move the Medic around and remove the cubes while moving him.

But I'm not sure how that could have been relevant on shraeye's first turn as the blue disease wasn't cured yet.

And of course, I've now confused blue with yellow, so Shraeye can carry on.

But I still need the following addressed, so let me use a specific hypothetical example.  Game state as in post 107.  Blue is cured. Shraeye is standing in NYC with 4 actions at the start of his turn.  If he 1) Treats all 3 cubes, 2) drives to London, 3) treats all London cubes, 4) drives to Madrid.  At the start of Jim's turn, can Shraeye treat Madrid, using no actions, even though it's Jimmm's turn?  The reason I've grabbed this idea is because the second bullet on the Medic role card says "Administer known cures for free".  I translate "free" as "costing no action" + "at any time", though the "at any time" part is already codified in the specific language about "on any players turn."

PPE 2 new, I may have been ninja'd

[Qvist]

shraeye can't stand in New York City with this game state because the cubes would have been already removed. And then it would be 1) Move to London and remove all cubes. 2) Move to Madrid and remove all cubes. 2 Actions left.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I think Schneau's 168 answers my question.  One way to look at it is that under some very specific circumstances, the medic gets, in effect, a "fifth action", if his fourth action is to enter a city that contains cubes of a cured color.  That may be very useful.  But you are right, has no effect on this current turn, as yellow is not cured.

Sorry for the diversion.

[Schneau]

That means that he can cure diseases basically "en passant". Let's say shraeye stands on St. Petersburg and it is drawn from the Infection pile. The cube gets immediately removed. The part "during all players' turn" is especially relevant in conjunction with the Dispatcher. The Dispatcher can move the Medic around and remove the cubes while moving him.

But I'm not sure how that could have been relevant on shraeye's first turn as the blue disease wasn't cured yet.

And of course, I've now confused blue with yellow, so Shraeye can carry on.

But I still need the following addressed, so let me use a specific hypothetical example.  Game state as in post 107.  Blue is cured. Shraeye is standing in NYC with 4 actions at the start of his turn.  If he 1) Treats all 3 cubes, 2) drives to London, 3) treats all London cubes, 4) drives to Madrid.  At the start of Jim's turn, can Shraeye treat Madrid, using no actions, even though it's Jimmm's turn?  The reason I've grabbed this idea is because the second bullet on the Medic role card says "Administer known cures for free".  I translate "free" as "costing no action" + "at any time", though the "at any time" part is already codified in the specific language about "on any players turn."

PPE 2 new, I may have been ninja'd

If shraeye is in a city with cubes of a color that have been cured, those cubes aren't there. So, in your hypothetical from game state 107, shraeye doesn't have to cure NYC - they're cured by him being there. Similar for London and Madrid. So, he could drive to London->Paris->Madrid, and all cubes in the 4 cities he visited would immediately be removed when he got to those cities. No need to use an action to treat them, they're treated right when he arrives. This includes NYC, where he started his turn.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Got it.

[shraeye]

sorry for the incredible delay.  People have mentioned that in Chicago it takes 3 actions to clear all cubes.  I can do it in just 1, but I'm not sure clearly yellow out of chicago is a high priority.  If chicago is drawn, only blue increases, right?

Regardless, here's my move.

Treat Lima,
Drive to MC
Treat MC,
Drive to LA

[Schneau]

sorry for the incredible delay.  People have mentioned that in Chicago it takes 3 actions to clear all cubes.  I can do it in just 1, but I'm not sure clearly yellow out of chicago is a high priority.  If chicago is drawn, only blue increases, right?

Regardless, here's my move.

Treat Lima,
Drive to MC
Treat MC,
Drive to LA

Yeah, we weren't really suggesting it would be a good move, more just figuring out how the game works exactly. Regardless, I think this was the right move for you. We should live to see another turn.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I suspect that Qvist is asleep, so I'm signing off for the evening.

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws Lagos, Taipei.

Infector: Ho Chi Minh City, Johannesburg



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul, Lagos, Taipei

Jimmmmm's next.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I don't have any specific short-term ideas, but a couple of observations that will help us long range.  I think we are actually not in terrible shape.

1) Yellow continues to be a problem, and we now have enough yellow cards between us to cure yellow, if we can work out getting people to the correct cities to hand them off, (probably to me, one at a time) and in turn, me get them to Jimmm (many in one turn).  This is made slightly easier while we are still on the same side of the world, fighting yellow (more on that later).

2) With blue cured, it is slightly less of an issue, and if it becomes an issue, can be handled relatively quickly because a) we are generally in the area, and b) medic has that "little extra" regarding what happens just by entering a city.

3) The best thing working for us is that only one red card is in play ("against us") and very few black cards.  What that means is that if we can cure and eradicate yellow (and secondarily eradicate blue), then most of the infector draw deck becomes cards (yellow and blue) that have little effect, allowing us to then concentrate on black and red.

4) Remember, we don't have to physically be in Asia when we cure red, we don't have to physically be in central Asia when we cure black, though to pass those color cards all of us besides me do have to be there at some point.  Here's hoping our drawing luck (on the player side) gets better.

5) While Schneau is in Africa, I think a research station should be built. J'berg is not the best place, down on the bottom, but he is there already, and it may be better than nothing.  Along those same lines, I should build one in the red area, but Sydney is not the best place for the same reasons as Jo'berg, and that's the only red card I have.

I am thinking that for my turn, I need to get back to the other side of the world, with you guys, and would probably use my sydney card to charter a flight. I want to hold my Miami card to pass, hopefully along with some other yellows I can collect from you guys.

[Schneau]

@SFS: I agree with a lot of what you say, but not some of the specific actions.

1) I agree that it would be great to cure yellow ASAP. But, I think it would take too much time to transfer the cards to you and then to Jimmmmm. shraeye already has 3 yellow cards, so it seems like it would be easiest to try to get them to him and have him discover the cure. It is easy for SFS to give him your yellow, at which point he only needs one more.

2) We're safe until after my next turn, at which point we are open for epidemic. We'd be lucky if it would wait a few more turns, but we should prepare for the worst. Yellow is definitely in the worst position - we only have 5 cubes left, which means we really can't afford a yellow outbreak right now, where we can afford single outbreaks in any other color. So, we might have to sacrifice leaving red or blue open for outbreak while we concentrate on yellow.

3) Let's look at which cities are still critical by next epidemic after shraeye's clean-ups:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none

Let's also look at the infection piles:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Paris, Mexico City, Chicago
Infection next on top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh

I'm now thinking it is critical to make sure all yellow cities can't outbreak by next epidemic - otherwise, we'll likely lose on cubes. If we want to take a small risk (and hope that there isn't an epidemic on my turn), we could leave LA with 3 cubes until shraeye's turn and let him clean up those. But, we should still try to treat Jo'burg and Bogota if possible. And secondarily, it would be good to treat HCMC, NYC, and Paris.

4) So, here are my recommendations:

Code: [Select]

Jimmmmm: Drive to Miami, Drive to Bogota, treat, treat

SFS: Treat HCMC, Drive to Manilla, Drive to San Fransisco, Drive to LA

Schneau: Treat Jo'burg, Build RS, fly to Madrid, full-treat Madrid
This would leave Paris, NYC, and LA at-risk during an epidemic on or after my turn. But, shraeye can clean up LA on his next turn, and even though an outbreak in blue would be bad, it wouldn't be the end of the world ( ). I think these plans best balance the risks / rewards that we have available. But, maybe there's something better that I'm not seeing.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I like each of these recommendations,though I would modify my turn slightly. We should consider me treating HCMC twice, flying to Sydney using my card, then driving to LA.  Still has me in LA at the end of the turn (if that is critical), yet prolongs the amount of time we have before we need to worry about HCMC again.  We don't lose anything by me not driving through San Fran, because I wasn't going to treat there (under your recommendation).  We do lose a red card, but that seems a relatively small price to pay to hedge against HCMC coming up quickly in the post-epidemic shuffle.  If I treat HCMC only once, and the card comes up quickly, we would be right back where we are now w/r/t HCMC, and we'd have to find a way to deal with that.

[Schneau]

I like each of these recommendations,though I would modify my turn slightly. We should consider me treating HCMC twice, flying to Sydney using my card, then driving to LA.  Still has me in LA at the end of the turn (if that is critical), yet prolongs the amount of time we have before we need to worry about HCMC again.  We don't lose anything by me not driving through San Fran, because I wasn't going to treat there (under your recommendation).  We do lose a red card, but that seems a relatively small price to pay to hedge against HCMC coming up quickly in the post-epidemic shuffle.  If I treat HCMC only once, and the card comes up quickly, we would be right back where we are now w/r/t HCMC, and we'd have to find a way to deal with that.

I like this.

[Schneau]

I had forgotten that Jimmmmm could use the RSs to hop from Atlanta to NYC. That said, his best move might be to hop to NYC, treat, drive to Madrid, treat. This would leave me open to doing more helpful things with my turn - maybe treating Jo'burg a second time, maybe building a RS there, maybe flying to Lima, driving to Bogota, and treating there.

We could leave Bogota risky for shraeye's turn, and have him full-treat LA and Bogota. That wouldn't leave any actions remaining to get cards from SFS. If we did that, it would mean it isn't worth it for SFS to get to LA, and he could do other more helpful things. He could even double treat HCMC, drive twice to Sydney, and build a RS in Sydney, which would help open up RS hopping. Or, he could fly to Miami to be closer to the action. Or... I dunno, something else. But, it's something to consider.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Yeah, I think dropping in Res. Stations is going to be important.  It's unfortunate that the cards that would allow that for the non-Op Experts are in very southern locations relative to the continents they are on.  Central locations are better, but the question quickly becomes: "Is having something there better than having nothing there?".

[shraeye]

Not sure how long we can leave NY untreated but my idea for my next turn if SFS is in LA is to treat, take yellow card, fly to london (autotreat), drive to NY(autotreat).  Then hopefully I draw a yellow player card and can immediately find yellow cure.

Another possibility is if SFS draws another yellow card, I can take yellow, take yellow, treat, drive to chicago (hoping to research in Atlanta next turn; later can go on crazy cleaning sprees)

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Not sure how long we can leave NY untreated but my idea for my next turn if SFS is in LA is to treat, take yellow card, fly to london (autotreat), drive to NY(autotreat).  Then hopefully I draw a yellow player card and can immediately find yellow cure.

Another possibility is if SFS draws another yellow card, I can take yellow, take yellow, treat, drive to chicago (hoping to research in Atlanta next turn; later can go on crazy cleaning sprees)

Both of these seem good.  Don't forget though, you are at 7 cards.  Taking one from me means discarding, taking two means discarding two, plus possibly two more when you draw after your turn.  Flying to London gets rid of one card, which helps, but still.  Discarding always seems to be a hard decision for me in the few RL games I've played.

[shraeye]

Istanbul will be a very easy discard, I'd like to keep Algiers.  Taipei may be discarded as well without too much sadness.

[Jimmmmm]

I agree that getting yellows to shraeye is the way to go.

I'm going to be out all day and I don't see a better move for me, so I'm going to go ahead and take the move suggested by Schneau.

Shuttle flight to New York
Treat New York, removing all cubes
Ferry to Madrid
Treat Madrid, removing all cubes

[Qvist]

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Los Angeles, Khartoum.

Infector: Paris, Chicago



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul, Lagos, Taipei

SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[Schneau]

Not the best draw of those yellow cards - we'd much rather SFS or shraeye drawing those. But, at least they're on the board. Maybe we should figure out how to get yellows to Jimmmmm now, since he only needs 4 and has 2 already?


Infection state:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris
Infection top of deck: Mexico City
Infection next on top of deck (don't know order): Toronto , Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh

Critical Cities:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

need to duck out for a bit (maybe 90 minutes?), so talk this over.  I'm in HCM City, and I propose:

1) Treat a cube
2) Treat a cube
3) Fly to Sydney (discarding Sydney card)
4) Drive to LA

A potential alternative, since Shraeye will begin his next turn in LA, would be
1) Treat a cube
2) Treat a cube
3) Fly to Miami (discarding Miami card) - it's hard for me to judge the magnitude of this potential loss. We have plenty of yellow in play without it, but it's in MY hand, making it easier to pass.  However, having me on that side of N. America puts me closer to the other problem yellow cities.  Shraeye could still treat LA at the beginning of his turn (1 or 2 cubes), then drive to San Fran and treat one.  My next turn would be spent on the East Coasts of both continents cleaning yellow.
4) Treat a cube


Let me know what you think.  I've not closely analyzed the top of the infection deck, and haven't looked back for impending epidemic schedule.

[Schneau]

The Miami infection card hasn't been drawn yet, so it's not at-risk for outbreak (unless we get unlucky). So, I think the Miami card is more helpful in your hand.

At the same time, I think shraeye's next move will involve treating LA and Bogota, while driving for his other two actions. That doesn't leave any actions to get a card from you. So, I think using Sydney card and driving to LA is a waste for you.

I think it would be best for you to treat HCMC twice and then use 2 drives to get to Sydney. That positions you in a good spot to fly anywhere in the world to start your next turn, when you may need to either give your cards to someone or treat an outbreak-potential city. I'd save your cards - they could be more helpful very soon.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Agreed on both points.

Qvist: My turn is:

1) Treat a cube
2) Treat a cube
3) Drive to Manila
4) Drive to Sydney

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws Beijing, Seoul.

Infector: Mexico City, Madrid



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami, Beijing, Seoul

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul, Lagos, Taipei

Schneau's next.

[Schneau]

Infection state:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Toronto, Cairo, Riyadh

Critical Cities:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Where are we regarding the potential draw of an Epidemic card?

[Schneau]

Where are we regarding the potential draw of an Epidemic card?

My turn is the first that could draw an Epidemic card. There will be one in the next 10 cards.

Well, I have some options, depending on how risky we want to be. I should definitely treat once, if not twice in Jo'burg. This leaves LA, Bogota, and Paris open for outbreak if we hit a epidemic during my turn (which is 1 in 5 chance of epidemic, followed by a 4/12 chance of outbreak). I think we should take our chances (~1/15 of an outbreak) and not have me treat LA, Bogota, or Paris. This allows me to be more productive this turn and have a more productive next turn. So, I like the following actions:

1) Treat Jo'burg (1 cube)
2) Treat Jo'burg (1 cube)
3) Build RS in Jo'burg (no discard since I'm Operations Expert)
4) Shuttle flight from RS in Jo'burg to RS in Atlanta.

Since I have the Atlanta card, this will allow me to charter a flight to anywhere on my next turn, which is helpful for the same reasons it was helpful for SFS. Any other opinions? I'll be around for the next 1.5 hours, and will move sometime before I go.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I like it.

[Schneau]

Great, I'm just going to do it so we can see what happens sooner:

1) Treat Jo'burg (1 cube)
2) Treat Jo'burg (1 cube)
3) Build RS in Jo'burg (no discard since I'm Operations Expert)
4) Shuttle flight from RS in Jo'burg to RS in Atlanta.

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Tokyo, Dehli.

Infector: Toronto, Cairo



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami, Beijing, Seoul

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul, Lagos, Taipei

shraeye's next.
This turn we might encounter the first time we go over the hand limit. To accelarate things a little bit, I propose that we first draw both cards and check afterwards the discard. Are you fine with that?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm fine with that method.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, I'm starting to get a little discouraged, as we are halfway through the deck, and have only 1 disease cured.  However, I do note that if Shraeye and I can meet up in Mexico City, then I can get the Mex. City card.  That would give me 2 yellows, and 3 reds, which are enough to cure 2 diseases if I can get them to Jimmm.  However, there would be transportation involved, and it would take me 2 turns to pass 5 cards.  So we would need to be treating while this is (hypothetically) going on, as we can only afford 2 more outbreaks.

I guess to put it in Dominion terms, I think we need to start greening.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Going to bed.

[Schneau]

Infection state:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Toronto, Cairo
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Riyadh

Critical Cities:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none


I definitely think that shraeye should treat LA and Bogota - that would give us back 6 important yellow cubes, and would avert any possible outbreaks besides Paris (unless we get unlucky with the bottom-card of the next epidemic).

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Infection state:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Toronto, Cairo
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Riyadh

Critical Cities:

Yellow - Lima, LA, MC, Bogota, Jo'Burg
Blue - New York, Paris - (Madrid is possible depending on draw)
Red - HCMC
Black - none


I definitely think that shraeye should treat LA and Bogota - that would give us back 6 important yellow cubes, and would avert any possible outbreaks besides Paris (unless we get unlucky with the bottom-card of the next epidemic).

So that would be Treat 1, drive, drive, treat 1? (LA though Mex city to Bogata)?
Going for a swim. Be back in 90 minutes.

[Schneau]

So that would be Treat 1, drive, drive, treat 1? (LA though Mex city to Bogata)?
Going for a swim. Be back in 90 minutes.

Yeah, except that since he's the medic, he can treat all the cubes in LA and Bogota.

[shraeye]

I agree with treat LA, drive drive, treat Bogota.  This will mean I have to discard two cards, but at least one is an easy discard.  It's more important now to prevent outbreaks I feel.

Also, about the cards, I think it doesn't make sense for me to give MC city to SFS, just so he can try to load Jimmm up with both red/yellow.  It's true that jimm only needs 4 cards for each, but I'm 2 away from yellow, and jim is also 2 away.  So if I draw yellow, SFS should be focused on giving me Miami, and not Jimmmm.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I agree with treat LA, drive drive, treat Bogota.  This will mean I have to discard two cards, but at least one is an easy discard.  It's more important now to prevent outbreaks I feel.

Also, about the cards, I think it doesn't make sense for me to give MC city to SFS, just so he can try to load Jimmm up with both red/yellow.  It's true that jimm only needs 4 cards for each, but I'm 2 away from yellow, and jim is also 2 away.  So if I draw yellow, SFS should be focused on giving me Miami, and not Jimmmm.

Sounds good, I agree with all of this.

[Schneau]

I agree with treat LA, drive drive, treat Bogota.  This will mean I have to discard two cards, but at least one is an easy discard.  It's more important now to prevent outbreaks I feel.

Also, about the cards, I think it doesn't make sense for me to give MC city to SFS, just so he can try to load Jimmm up with both red/yellow.  It's true that jimm only needs 4 cards for each, but I'm 2 away from yellow, and jim is also 2 away.  So if I draw yellow, SFS should be focused on giving me Miami, and not Jimmmm.

Sounds good, I agree with all of this.

Agree as well. If you don't draw a yellow, I think there is a somewhat convoluted way for me to get you Lima / build a RS in Lima on my next turn. But, we'll get to that if you don't draw yellow. I think our best shot at winning is getting yellow cured ASAP, and I think shraeye is the man to do it.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Jim went to bed, according to another thread.

[shraeye]

Well let us make that move happen.

Treat LA,
Drive to MC
Drive to Bogota
Treat Bogota.

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws Santiago, Bogotá

Infector: Riyadh, Atlanta



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami, Beijing, Seoul

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul, Lagos, Taipei, Santiago, Bogotá

shraeye, please discard 2 cards.
Jimmmmm's next.

[Qvist]

I'm V/LA until tomorrow.

[Jimmmmm]

shraeye, what a wonderful draw!

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, so between us, SFS and I have enough for the red cure. We can get it in my next turn, if I ignore Paris. Schneau can get Paris on his turn, although it's possible but unlikely that Paris will outbreak before then. So should I treat Paris, or hurry over to SFS? I'm leaning towards the latter. What do you think?

[Schneau]

Infection state:

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Toronto, Cairo, Riyadh, Atlanta (5 yellow, 6 blue, 1 red, 2 black)
Infection top of deck (don't know order):

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - Paris
Red - none
Black - none

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (CURRENT TURN)
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

Okay, so between us, SFS and I have enough for the red cure. We can get it in my next turn, if I ignore Paris. Schneau can get Paris on his turn, although it's possible but unlikely that Paris will outbreak before then. So should I treat Paris, or hurry over to SFS? I'm leaning towards the latter. What do you think?

I'm not sure exactly what you had in mind, but it seems like you'd be able to cure red on your next turn even if you treat Paris this turn. Something like:

Jimmmmm: Drive to Paris, treat Paris, drive to London, drive to New York
SFS: Fly to Miami (we don't need that card now that shraeye has 5 yellows), treat Miami, drive to Washington, drive to NYC.
...
Jimmmmm: Receive 3 red cards from SFS, cure red.

During that time, shraeye and I can work on cleaning up any threats that come up and have shraeye cure yellow.

[Jimmmmm]

Right, well that works too. I didn't think of meeting SFS anywhere other than where he is now. Good thing I got some feedback first. I think that's probably what I'll do. Also, it seems we're further along than I thought.  Thanks for the updates.

[Jimmmmm]

SFS, are you cool with meeting me in NY? I don't see any reason not to, so I'll have my turn.

Drive to Paris
Treat Paris, removing all cubes
Drive to Madrid
Ferry to New York

[Schneau]

Yeah, I think it would be best to clear Paris before the coming epidemic. We're half way through the game (turn 13 of possible 25), and I definitely think we need to put some focus into cures. Black will be the hardest to cure unless the right people draw some black cards soon. Luckily, black hasn't been critical yet. We squeaked through a close call earlier, but we appear to be doing well now. Though, that could all change with the next epidemic.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

My availability over the next few days may be limited for personal reasons.

Shraeye, don't forget to discard 2 cards.  I recommend saving black (and of course yellow).

It looks to me like we will soon need to be in Asia, not because of problems there now, but because to pass cards we all need to be over there (unless I draw a lot of black of course). We should begin to think more about Res. Stations for the sake of transportation.

I'm going to move, because I don't know when I'll be back.  Any moves you guys make in my absence are fine with me.

1) Fly to Miami (discard Miami card)
2) Treat one cube
3) Drive to Washington
4) Drive to New York City

[shraeye]

I discard London and Taipei

[Qvist]

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Milan, Osaka

Infector: Beijing, Miami



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum, Milan, Osaka

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami, Beijing, Seoul

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, Istanbul, Lagos, Santiago, Bogotá

SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[Qvist]

Do you still agree with SFS's move? Should I still execute it?

[shraeye]

Let's not execute it until we've had a chance to look at the board.  I haven't checked yet, but in this game, reacting to new information is cruicial

[Jimmmmm]

SFS now has the option to fly direct from Sydney and give me his other two red cards. I think we should wait until he gets back and let him re-evaluate, if that's okay with Qvist.

Edit: Although I forgot he treated Miami as well, which is fairly important. Maybe it was the best move after all, although maybe he should have discarded Sydney instead, I don't know.

[shraeye]

Here's a thought with SFS.

Why doesn't he play the Sydney card to fly direct to Jimmmm, then give two other red cards to Jimmm, so that we can get a cure next turn?

He has an extra turn there, so he could perhaps treat the yellow cube in Sydney?  Or go somewhere after new york?  Maybe going to Madrid after passing off two cards, so that he's closer to black, and the problem in Africa?


We also should be very careful with what card gets drawn from the epidemic pile.  There are a lot of cities which could be drawn that already have a cube in them from previous outbreaks. Kinshasa, Khartoum, Sao Paolo, London, Washington.

[Jimmmmm]

Why doesn't he play the Sydney card to fly direct to Jimmmm, then give two other red cards to Jimmm, so that we can get a cure next turn?

With SFS's current move, we are getting the red cure next turn, since he ends up in the same place as me which happens to have a research station.

We also should be very careful with what card gets drawn from the epidemic pile.  There are a lot of cities which could be drawn that already have a cube in them from previous outbreaks. Kinshasa, Khartoum, Sao Paolo, London, Washington.

Yeah, that's a good point, and they're easy to forget about.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm caught up.  Without giving it a lot of detailed thought, I like

1) Fly to Miami (discard the Miami card)
2) Treat 1 cube in Miami
3) Drive to Washington
4) Drive to NYC

But then Jimm would have to spend an action to get to me in NYC, leaving 3 actions, which would be Share, Share, Share to get the 3 read cards, and then he has no action to actually cure the red disease.  I can get all the way to madrid, by driving one more leg (and therefore not treating Miami), which would let him get three cards from me on his turn AND leave him an action to cure, but there is no research station in Madrid.

What do you guys want me to do?

See subsequent posts.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Toronto, Cairo, Riyadh, Atlanta, Miami, Beijing (6 yellow, 6 blue, 2 red, 2 black)
Infection top of deck (don't know order):

Critical Cities:

Yellow - Miami
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - none

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Schneau
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

I'm caught up.  Without giving it a lot of detailed thought, I like

1) Fly to Miami (discard the Miami card)
2) Treat 1 cube in Miami
3) Drive to Washington
4) Drive to NYC

But then Jimm would have to spend an action to get to me in NYC, leaving 3 actions, which would be Share, Share, Share to get the 3 read cards, and then he has no action to actually cure the red disease.  I can get all the way to madrid, by driving one more leg (and therefore not treating Miami), which would let him get three cards from me on his turn AND leave him an action to cure, but there is no research station in Madrid.

What do you guys want me to do?

I think you read the board wrong. Jimmmm is in NYC and drew 1 red card, so he only needs 2 red cards from you to cure. Plus, since he's in NYC, he can grab 2 red cards, cure, and do something else on his turn. So, I think you should stick with your plan.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm caught up.  Without giving it a lot of detailed thought, I like

1) Fly to Miami (discard the Miami card)
2) Treat 1 cube in Miami
3) Drive to Washington
4) Drive to NYC

But then Jimm would have to spend an action to get to me in NYC, leaving 3 actions, which would be Share, Share, Share to get the 3 read cards, and then he has no action to actually cure the red disease.  I can get all the way to madrid, by driving one more leg (and therefore not treating Miami), which would let him get three cards from me on his turn AND leave him an action to cure, but there is no research station in Madrid.

What do you guys want me to do?

Disregard all of the above.  I don't understand why I'm not already in NYC.  Jim moved in post 219, and I moved in 221.  The map in 223 reflects Jimm's move, but does not reflect mine.  What gives? I specifically moved so you guys wouldn't be waiting on me all weekend.

[Schneau]

Disregard all of the above.  I don't understand why I'm not already in NYC.  Jim moved in post 219, and I moved in 221.  The map in 223 reflects Jimm's move, but does not reflect mine.  What gives? I specifically moved so you guys wouldn't be waiting on me all weekend.

Do you still agree with SFS's move? Should I still execute it?

After Qvist said this, we've been hemming and hawing about whether it should still be your move. I think it should be, so I'd just say it again and we'll be on our way.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist, this is my move. Please execute it.

1) Fly to Miami (discard Miami card)
2) Treat one cube
3) Drive to Washington
4) Drive to New York City

The following statement is meant to take effect after the above move is made.  Sorry I didn't make that more clear earlier.  I don't know how much attention I can give to this today, although it will be my priority over the mafia game.  Any moves you guys make on Schneau's turn, Shraeye's turn, and Jimm's turn are fine with me (though it's pretty clear we get to cure red).

Qvist, if I am not here for Jimm's turn, and permission is required to take cards out of my hand under one or more "Share Knowledge" actions, said permission is hereby granted by me.  Jimm may take any cards out of my hand on his next turn while we are in New York City simultaneously.

[Qvist]

Disregard all of the above.  I don't understand why I'm not already in NYC.  Jim moved in post 219, and I moved in 221.  The map in 223 reflects Jimm's move, but does not reflect mine.  What gives? I specifically moved so you guys wouldn't be waiting on me all weekend.

Sorry. I just wanted to be careful. In Pandemic, things are changing so fast. And I didn't want to be responsible for a move you might wanted to change after the previous move.
Because once a move is executed, it's hard to rollback. So, apologize.

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws Forecast, Chicago
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Infector: Istanbul, Sao Paulo



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum, Milan, Osaka

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Beijing, Seoul, Forecast, Chicago
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, Istanbul, Lagos, Santiago, Bogotá

Schneau's next.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: Lima, New York, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Toronto, Cairo, Riyadh, Atlanta, Miami, Beijing, Istanbul, Sao Paulo (7 yellow, 6 blue, 2 red, 3 black)
Infection top of deck (don't know order):

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - none

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (CURRENT TURN) (WILL HAVE EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

So, we obviously want to cure yellow on shraeye's turn and red on Jimmmmm's. That means we'll just have to hold on through 1 or 2 more epidemics until we can cure black. In the meantime, we want to avoid outbreaks as much as possible, and make sure we don't get too many cubes of one color on the board.

But, I'm not sure how I can be most useful on my turn. One option would be for me to drive to Bogota and put in a RS there, making it so shraeye won't have to use two actions to get to Atlanta. On the way, I could treat 1 cube in Miami. That's about the best idea I have - let me know if you think of something else.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Disregard all of the above.  I don't understand why I'm not already in NYC.  Jim moved in post 219, and I moved in 221.  The map in 223 reflects Jimm's move, but does not reflect mine.  What gives? I specifically moved so you guys wouldn't be waiting on me all weekend.

Sorry. I just wanted to be careful. In Pandemic, things are changing so fast. And I didn't want to be responsible for a move you might wanted to change after the previous move.
Because once a move is executed, it's hard to rollback. So, apologize.

No Problem.  I agree with you about things changing, and upon reread, my post in 221 was not as clear as I thought it was.  Erring on the side of caution was the best plan.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So, we obviously want to cure yellow on shraeye's turn and red on Jimmmmm's. That means we'll just have to hold on through 1 or 2 more epidemics until we can cure black. In the meantime, we want to avoid outbreaks as much as possible, and make sure we don't get too many cubes of one color on the board.

But, I'm not sure how I can be most useful on my turn. One option would be for me to drive to Bogota and put in a RS there, making it so shraeye won't have to use two actions to get to Atlanta. On the way, I could treat 1 cube in Miami. That's about the best idea I have - let me know if you think of something else.

I like the idea of you building an RS to save Shraeye an action.  I recommend we use my Forecast card as soon as this epidemic hits, so that we control the infections for the next 3 infector phases.

For anyone that hasn't played at all, the other 4 (currently unseen) special action cards are (can't remember the names):
1) Airlift any player anywhere
2) Build a research station anywhere (called Government Grant?)
3) Skip an Infector phase of someone's turn (this one is called Quiet Night, I think)
4) Permanently remove a single Infection card from play

Any of these cards can be played at any time by the player holding them, on anyone's turn, without spending an action.

[shraeye]

A good turn for Schneau might be to charter to Kinshasa, treat, drive to Khartoum, treat.

This clears two cities which might outbreak if they are unluckily drawn with the epidemic, in addition to getting you close to the action around black.

I'm not so worried about spending actions to get to Atlanta, as I'd like to begin trying to eradicate blue as soon as I can.

[Schneau]

A good turn for Schneau might be to charter to Kinshasa, treat, drive to Khartoum, treat.

This clears two cities which might outbreak if they are unluckily drawn with the epidemic, in addition to getting you close to the action around black.

I'm not so worried about spending actions to get to Atlanta, as I'd like to begin trying to eradicate blue as soon as I can.

I'm not sure we'll need to / be able to eradicate blue this game. We just have to hold on long enough to cure yellow and red soon and black a bit after that. So, I was thinking by building a RS that you can use in Bogota, it will leave you (as the Medic) to use more of your actions for clearing more cities than I can. I agree that Kinshasa or Khartoum would be a bad outbreak, but neither would likely lose us the game. Plus, if they're not drawn, I'll end up in the middle of nowhere and have to waste actions or cards to get somewhere useful. I think it would be better to see where the bad things happen and then send stuff to them.

So, I'm going to go ahead with this move:

1) Drive to Miami
2) Treat Miami (1 cube)
3) Drive to Bogota
4) Build RS in Bogota

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Airlift, Epidemic
Airlift Move a pawn (yours or another player's) to any city. You must have a player's permission to move their pawn.

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in Seoul (3 cubes)

Does anyone want to use Airlift or Forecast?

[Jimmmmm]

I recommend we use my Forecast card as soon as this epidemic hits, so that we control the infections for the next 3 infector phases.

Now that we've had our 3rd epidemic, infection rate increases to 3, so we'll only be able to control 2 turns.

[Schneau]

I would say it would be most helpful to not play Airlift or Forecast right away, but to wait until the beginning of shraeye's turn to use Forecast. If we use Forecast now, all we'll get to know is what 3 cards will come up right away and what 3 cards will come up after shraeye's turn. But, if we use it before shraeye's turn, we can prioritize where shraeye should go as well as which cards we get which turn. That's my vote, but I'll leave it up to SFS. Also, I see no reason to use Airlift right away.

[shraeye]

My turn and Jim's are mostly forced.  I have to get to a RS and cure yellow, Jim has to take cards and cure red.  It would be best to play forecast before SFS's next turn i think.

[shraeye]

Then again, if I get airlifted to Atlanta, I can cure yellow, then move to Chicago, toronto, washington, and clear out allll of those cubes.

[Schneau]

Then again, if I get airlifted to Atlanta, I can cure yellow, then move to Chicago, toronto, washington, and clear out allll of those cubes.

I built a RS in Bogota, so you are currently at one.

[shraeye]

hahaha, i missed that.

[Qvist]

I will go to bed soon. Should I update without cards being played or wait?

[Schneau]

I will go to bed soon. Should I update without cards being played or wait?

I think so. I don't think it's a good idea, and I hope SFS agrees.

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Airlift, Epidemic
Airlift Move a pawn (yours or another player's) to any city. You must have a player's permission to move their pawn.

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in Seoul (3 cubes)
Intensify: Infection Discard Pile is shuffled and placed on top of the draw pile.
Infector: Toronto, New York, Seoul

Outbreak 6: Disease in Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum, Milan, Osaka

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Beijing, Seoul, Forecast, Chicago
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Airlift
Airlift Move a pawn (yours or another player's) to any city. You must have a player's permission to move their pawn.

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, Istanbul, Lagos, Santiago, Bogotá


Schneau, please discard 1 card.
shraeye's next.

[Schneau]

I will discard Lima.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Seoul
Infection top of deck (don't know order): Lima, Bogotá, Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh, Atlanta, Miami, Beijing, Istanbul, Sao Paulo

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - none
Red - Seoul
Black - none

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

I think we should use Forecast now, and then decide what shraeye should do with his last 3 actions. I also wouldn't mind airlifting shraeye to Seoul if necessary.

[Jimmmmm]

We're in dangerous territory now. Another epidemic would be brutal.

[Jimmmmm]

Although I guess we're still doing pretty well considering.

[Jimmmmm]

I suggest for shraeye: cure, airlift to Asia and treat Beijing and Seoul in whichever order you think would be best.

[shraeye]

How does the airlift work?  Does it take one of my actions?  If so, then treating Seoul is the most critical.  If not, then I will play
Cure (airlift)
treat seoul,
to beijing,
treat beijing.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I would say it would be most helpful to not play Airlift or Forecast right away, but to wait until the beginning of shraeye's turn to use Forecast. If we use Forecast now, all we'll get to know is what 3 cards will come up right away and what 3 cards will come up after shraeye's turn. But, if we use it before shraeye's turn, we can prioritize where shraeye should go as well as which cards we get which turn. That's my vote, but I'll leave it up to SFS. Also, I see no reason to use Airlift right away.

I agree with this, but I haven't re-examined the board.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

How does the airlift work?  Does it take one of my actions?  If so, then treating Seoul is the most critical.  If not, then I will play
Cure (airlift)
treat seoul,
to beijing,
treat beijing.

Special event cards do not take actions to play, and can be played on anyones turn.  I can play forecast on anyone's turn.  Anyone can be airlifted upon play of that card.  AND, according to my reading of the rules, you can play (and therefore discard) a special event card to satisfy the requirement of IMMEDIATELY discarding a card when your hand exceeds 7 cards.  It has saved me many times from discarding key city cards in late-game situations.

[shraeye]

Cool, thanks SFS.  What do you all think?  Treat Seoul, then Beijing?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I think your turn, as you outlined it above, is perfect.

[Schneau]

I also like shraeye's outlined move above, conditioned on one thing: I think we should use Forecast first before making the move. It could change things depending on what's coming up soon. But, if the Forecasted cards don't change much, then I think that move looks perfect.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I also like shraeye's outlined move above, conditioned on one thing: I think we should use Forecast first before making the move. It could change things depending on what's coming up soon. But, if the Forecasted cards don't change much, then I think that move looks perfect.

That is an option.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I also like shraeye's outlined move above, conditioned on one thing: I think we should use Forecast first before making the move. It could change things depending on what's coming up soon. But, if the Forecasted cards don't change much, then I think that move looks perfect.

That is an option.

No posts today.  Are you guys waiting for me to play the forecast?

[Schneau]

I like playing the Forecast before shraeye's turn; what do others think?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Jim is asleep, he is roughly opposite forum time (180 degrees out of phase, less 1 hour or so).

[Jimmmmm]

What's the point of Forecasting if we have no critical cities? Unless there's a very good reason to do it now, I'd save it for the next epidemic.

[Schneau]

I think the point of using Forecast would be to know what cards are coming up soon and will become critical soon - that way, shraeye can treat them before they get bad. But, I see your point as well, so it's fine if we don't use it.

[Jimmmmm]

It can be very handy when there's a chance of two epidemics in a row. What's even better is One Silent Night.

[shraeye]

Yeah, I don't know about using the Forcast;  I'll defer to all your opinions here.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Yeah, I don't know about using the Forcast;  I'll defer to all your opinions here.

Based on my limited RL play, I think it's better to use DURING an epidemic.  Resolve the "Intensify" phase, where you reshuffle the infection discard pile, then use Forecast to minimize the damage of the 1st 6 cards.  Depending on shuffle luck, it can be as good as One Quiet Night.  It's especially helpful if you have a disease eradicated.

[Schneau]

This is all fine with me. Feel free to make your move, shraeye.

[shraeye]

1. Find yellow cure.
1 and a half. Airlift me to Seoul
2. Treat Seoul
3. drive to Beijing
4. treat Beijin.

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws Moscow, Cairo

Infector: Johannesburg, Atlanta, Lima



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran, Los Angeles, Khartoum, Milan, Osaka

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Beijing, Seoul, Forecast, Chicago
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo


Jimmmmm's next.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Nice draw Shraeye, we may be able to win this after all.

Jimm, you're grabbing three red cards from me and curing red, right?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Unless I've missed something, this is a possible endgame, even if our card draws do not improve (quantities in red are cards remaining in Player Card draw pile, which currently has 18 cards left):

Jimm takes 3 red cards from me (using 3 actions) and cures red with his final action  16 left

SFS drives to Toronto, autotreats all blue, drives to Chicago, autotreats all blue. 14 left

Schneau flies to Madrid, drives to Algiers, drives to Cairo, treats one cube. 12 left

Shraeye drives to Shanghai (treating for free en passant), to Hong Kong, to Kolkata, to Delhi.10 left

Jim flies to Khartoum (discarding Khartoum), treats, drives to Jo'berg, treats. 8 left

SFS autotreats yellow, drives to Atlanta, autotreats blue, has action left. 6 left

Schneau drives to Baghdad, drives to Karachi, drives to Delhi, and builds a Research Station 4 left

Shraeye shares knowledge by taking the Delhi card from Schneau, and cures black.  We win immediately upon 4th cure - Shraeye need not draw cards.

Now, I haven't considered all the data (top of infection deck, or where we are on upcoming epidemics), I just wanted to get this down.  But I think this may work regardless, and here's why. We currently have no 3-cube cities. And only a handful of 2-cube cities, most of which I've covered with the moves above. The current 2-cube cities that don't get treated under the above plan are Riyadh and Sao Paulo, so that needs to be looked at, but the cities around them will not chain, and we can afford a single additional outbreak.  Plus, we should be getting some special event cards that will help even more. Thoughts?

[Schneau]

I'm V/LA for the next 48 hours or so. But, after skimming SFS's suggestion, it looks basically good, though I'm wondering if we can win sooner.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm V/LA for the next 48 hours or so. But, after skimming SFS's suggestion, it looks basically good, though I'm wondering if we can win sooner.

Possible, especially with draws.  I just wanted to show we had a high likelihood of winning, no matter what.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm V/LA for the next 48 hours or so. But, after skimming SFS's suggestion, it looks basically good, though I'm wondering if we can win sooner.

Are you going to post your standard status-update post before you go, or should I cut and paste the last one, update it, and post it?  I don't mind, if you don't have time.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Atlanta,
Infection top of deck (don't know order):  Bogotá, Los Angeles,  Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Mexico City, Madrid, Cairo, Riyadh, Miami, Beijing, Istanbul, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order, except cycle for Epidemic - sorry for non-yellow on "yellow" cities):
Paris, Essen   Buenos Aires, Kinshasa, Jo'berg     Baghdad, Riyadh, Mumbai, Chennai      Shanghai, Hong Kong, HCM City, Jakarta    Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC  EPIDEMIC 

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - none

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (CURRENT TURN)
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Jimmmmm]

SFS, I only need 2 of your red cards. Which one do you think you should keep?

[Jimmmmm]

Rules clarification: I need to discard down to seven immediately, as opposed to at the end of my turn, right? Also, does finding the cure count as discarding down to seven, ie can I have eight cards, find the cure, and then still have four cards in hand (as the Scientist)?

[Schneau]

Rules clarification: I need to discard down to seven immediately, as opposed to at the end of my turn, right? Also, does finding the cure count as discarding down to seven, ie can I have eight cards, find the cure, and then still have four cards in hand (as the Scientist)?

After every action you take, you can have at most 7 cards in your hand. So, unfortunately, you have to discard down to 7 after each card you receive from SFS.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

SFS, I only need 2 of your red cards. Which one do you think you should keep?

I don't think it matters.  I started to say let me keep Beijing in case I draw a black card myself, but by the time my next turn rolled around, Shraeye would likely not be in Beijing, so I think it really doesn't matter which red one I keep.

Perhaps the more important question is which cards do you discard as you take on each of the two red cards coming out of my hand.  I feel that LA is definitely discardable, and Milan likely is.  I've looked through the infection draw cards, and nothing can hurt us too much.  There are 4 cards that could come up and create 3-cube cities: Chicago, Cairo, Riyadh, Sao Paulo.  The plan I outlined above for the endgame takes care of most of those, but only on the timeline I outlined.  If the timing of the cards doesn't co-operate, we could still lose on outbreaks. We can only afford one more.  It may be time to use my forecast, to make sure that these four cities don't go to 3 cubes in the next two turns.  Having said that, I think the forecast will be even more valuable immediately upon the Epidemic hitting, particularly if, by that time, we've drawn One Silent Night.

There is still a lot to think about, but I do feel good about our chances.  I'd like to know what Shraeye thinks, and there was no post in the mafia V/LA thread, so he's likely around this week, even with the American holiday.  I'll be here too.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Rules clarification: I need to discard down to seven immediately, as opposed to at the end of my turn, right? Also, does finding the cure count as discarding down to seven, ie can I have eight cards, find the cure, and then still have four cards in hand (as the Scientist)?

After every action you take, you can have at most 7 cards in your hand. So, unfortunately, you have to discard down to 7 after each card you receive from SFS.

Yes, the rules are quite clear:

"Players have a hand limit of 7 cards. If the number of cards in hand ever exceeds 7 as a result of drawing cards (or performing the Share Knowledge action), the player must immediately discard cards in excess to the Player Discard Pile. Players may choose which cards to discard.  Payers may play Special Event cards (including any they have just drawn) instead of discarding them, to help reduce their hand to 7."

Edit to add this thought:  (This won't apply to Jim's question, as he can see all the cards in my hand before "drawing" any of them.) Could the plural "cards" (now in red in the quote of the rules) be interpreted to mean that there is not necessarily a 1:1 correspondence between exceeding 7 cards and reducing handsize to 7?  In other words, if a player has 7 cards, comes to the end of his turn, and draws two more, is he allowed to see both of the drawn cards before deciding on his first discard, then his second?  I would argue that seeing both cards to be drawn before discarding any cards is permissible, for at least two reasons (in no particular order):

1) The lack of the word "immediately" in the applicable rule, as opposed to the language elsewhere in the rules that specifies the "immediate" win upon curing the 4th disease.
2) The little reminder in the lower right-hand corner of the board on "the order of play".  If, in drawing 2 cards, an epidemic is encountered, we resolve the epidemic before discarding down to seven cards. This specifically counters an interpretation such as "After every action you take, you can have at most 7 cards in your hand."
3) Qvist has already allowed this to happen.  Shraeye at one point had 9 cards in his hand, and was allowed to discard two cards after the fact.

[Schneau]

Yup, you always draw your white cards together, and then decide which to discard.

[Jimmmmm]

I have one spare action after finding the cure. Any thoughts what I should do with it? I could fly via RSs to Jo'burg, or fly to Tehran so I can meet shraeye in Kolkata next turn if necessary, or just drive to Toronto planning to deal with blue next turn?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I have one spare action after finding the cure. Any thoughts what I should do with it? I could fly via RSs to Jo'burg, or fly to Tehran so I can meet shraeye in Kolkata next turn if necessary, or just drive to Toronto planning to deal with blue next turn?

I think I can handle the North America cities.  The Riyadh/Cairo thing is vaguely worrisome, but we also need an RS over in Asia for Shraeye to cure black even if we can give him a card, so we need to consider that if we want to try to win faster than the endgame I proposed.  I don't know what to say.

[shraeye]

I'm unfortunately unable to think today.  You all have very solid plans, and I trust your judgement.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I think I'll fly to Tehran so I'm in the best position to possible to either treat Cairo or Riyadh, build a Research Station or share knowledge with shraeye.

(Discard Los Angeles and Milan)

Share Knowledge with SFS, taking Sydney
Share Knowledge with SFS, taking Beijing
Find the Red cure (discard Manila, Osaka, Sydney and Beijing)
Direct Flight to Tehran (discard Tehran)

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Okay, I think I'll fly to Tehran so I'm in the best position to possible to either treat Cairo or Riyadh, build a Research Station or share knowledge with shraeye.

(Discard Los Angeles and Milan)

Share Knowledge with SFS, taking Sydney
Share Knowledge with SFS, taking Beijing
Find the Red cure (discard Manila, Osaka, Sydney and Beijing)
Direct Flight to Tehran (discard Tehran)

You'll need a card to build a research station, and you can't use Kolkata because you may need to give it to Shraeye.

We can hope that one of you draws a black card, or a red card for a nearby city.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, I meant either build in Kolkata or give it to shraeye, whatever would be more helpful.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Yeah, I meant either build in Kolkata or give it to shraeye, whatever would be more helpful.

There are 4 black cards and 4 red cards left to be drawn, plus the government grant card, so we should be ok. 

[Qvist]

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Jakarta, Baghdad

Infector: Mexico City, Los Angeles, Cairo



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Jakarta, Baghdad

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Forecast, Chicago
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo


SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Atlanta, Mexico City, Los Angeles, Cairo
Infection top of deck (don't know order):  Bogotá,  Ho Chi Minh City, Chicago, Paris, Madrid, Riyadh, Miami, Beijing, Istanbul, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order, except cycle for Epidemic - sorry for non-yellow on "yellow" cities):
Paris, Essen   Buenos Aires, Kinshasa, Jo'berg     Riyadh, Mumbai, Chennai      Shanghai, Hong Kong, HCM City    Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC  EPIDEMIC 

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - Cairo

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, with Cairo now critical, I can drive there and treat one cube, but I feel like I need to stay in NA and treat. How else can we treat Cairo quickly, with Epidemic becoming more likely each turn?

With Jimm in black territory, and Schneau able to get to that area quickly by spending one of his two black cards, it seems to me that we just need to work out the best way to get Shraeye one more black card, from either Jim (likely in Kolkata) or from Schneau (likely in Delhi). Having a Res. Station nearby or in the city where the transfer of card occurs will be critical, and that will fall to Schneau, either in his next turn, or in his final turn.

Unless you want me to go to Cairo now and treat, then I recommend this as Schneau's next turn:
Fly to Karachi (discarding Karachi), drive to Baghdad, drive to Cairo, treat one cube.  On his final turn, Schneau would drive to Baghdad, drive to Karachi, drive to Delhi, and build an RS, and on Shraeye's final turn, he would gain the Delhi card from Schneau (having driven 4 legs to Delhi on his previous turn) and cure black.

Meanwhile, Jim is in the area to help with treating black.  In the alternative, we might be able to work out some scenario where JImm gives the Kolkata card to Shreye, but because a Res. Station is still needed somewhere nearbt, it still ends up the same number of turns, with Shraeye winning two turns from now.

What do we think?

Qvist:  It is HIGHLY likely that we will want to use Forecast on the next Epidemic, after you intensify and reshuffle the infection discards, but before you run the Infector Phase.

[Schneau]

Sorry, I was busy yesterday and will be today as well. But, I'll be back to regular on Monday!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

NP.  I'm content to wait for more input before I move, as Cairo is an issue. The newly-infected city after the next epidemic will be also, as we can only have one more outbreak.

[Schneau]

shraeye looks like our best option to cure black, but is in an unfortunate place currently. On my turn I could fly to Karachi, drive to Delhi, and build a RS there, which means if we could quickly get shraeye there on his turn I could give him Delhi and he could cure black. But, I don't see a way to get him there, especially with Airlift gone. So, we'll likely have to wait until shraeye's last move, which is our second to last move of the game. Of course, if we draw Government Grant on SFS's or my turn, we could build a RS in Beijing and if I've build one in a black city (that I have the card for), we could end the game sooner. So, that might be a good thing to try for.

But, assuming we don't draw Government Grant soon, that means we need to avoid all outbreaks until near the end of the game. We'll likely have 2 Epidemics, which is also not good. Luckily, One Quiet Night and Resilient Population will both be helpful for that. Cairo looks bad, but we can use Forecast to make sure it doesn't immediately come up during the next Epidemic.

So, I think it would be best for SFS to do what he can to prevent outbreaks or too many yellow cubes being used. The worst cities are currently Toronto, Atlanta, Jo'Burg, Mexico City, and Cairo. I could see SFS treating any of these, with Toronto, Atlanta, and Jo'Burg being good options. Maybe something like shuttle and treat Jo'burg, shuttle and treat Atlanta could be good.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

shraeye looks like our best option to cure black, but is in an unfortunate place currently. On my turn I could fly to Karachi, drive to Delhi, and build a RS there, which means if we could quickly get shraeye there on his turn I could give him Delhi and he could cure black. But, I don't see a way to get him there, especially with Airlift gone. So, we'll likely have to wait until shraeye's last move, which is our second to last move of the game. Of course, if we draw Government Grant on SFS's or my turn, we could build a RS in Beijing and if I've build one in a black city (that I have the card for), we could end the game sooner. So, that might be a good thing to try for.

But, assuming we don't draw Government Grant soon, that means we need to avoid all outbreaks until near the end of the game. We'll likely have 2 Epidemics, which is also not good. Luckily, One Quiet Night and Resilient Population will both be helpful for that. Cairo looks bad, but we can use Forecast to make sure it doesn't immediately come up during the next Epidemic.

So, I think it would be best for SFS to do what he can to prevent outbreaks or too many yellow cubes being used. The worst cities are currently Toronto, Atlanta, Jo'Burg, Mexico City, and Cairo. I could see SFS treating any of these, with Toronto, Atlanta, and Jo'Burg being good options. Maybe something like shuttle and treat Jo'burg, shuttle and treat Atlanta could be good.

Yeah, we are on the same page.  However, Toronto, Atlanta, Joberg, Chicago, Mex. City, Sao Paulo all have only 2 cubes, and Cairo has three.  I agree that we can put off a Cairo epidemic for a single turn with my Forecast, but that means if I draw the epidemic on this turn, play the forecast, and one of the 6 cards we get to look at IS Cairo (6/9 probability of that), then it will outbreak on your (Schneau's) turn for sure.  So either I need to treat it, or you do.  It makes more sense for you to be over there, to give Shraey black cards.

I'm starting to think that your next turn should be a little different than I envisioned. Fly to Karachi, drive to Baghdad, drive to Cairo, treat one cube.  Your final turn would then be Drive to Baghdad, drive to Karachi, drive to Delhi, and build.  Shraeye's next turn would be simply drive 4 times to Delhi, and on his last turn he would share knowledge (getting Delhi) and curing black.  I've racked my brain, and don't see a faster way to end it.

So the question becomes, do I treat Cairo now, putting me (almost permanently) out of place for treating yellow, or do we have you treat Cairo as I've outlined above?  I think the latter is better, but I'd like opinions.  If we know you will treat Cairo, then we can talk about how much yellow I can get on this turn.

[Schneau]

I can be more efficient by shuttling to Atlanta, charter flight to Cairo, and treat 2 cubes in Cairo. In fact, that will likely be my next turn whether or not we get an epidemic on SFS's turn.

So, SFS should treat as much as possible on his turns. I like having him treat Jo'Burg and then Atlanta, getting rid of two outbreak possibilities and leaving him in North America for future turns. But, I'm open to other suggestions.

[shraeye]

whoa, I'm still V/LA in the head basically, so I'm going to defer to you all.  Remember that there are some cities with cubes that haven't been drawn yet (due to previous outbreaks) and we could get an instant outbreak due to those cards being on the bottom of the pile.

I think Kinshasa and Khartoum are two of them, maybe there are others taht I forget.  Washington...probably another yellow one.

Also, my turn will focus on getting/curing black to the best of my ability.  Possibly curing on my last turn is a possibility, and in the intervening time, I can instant-clean up any city except black cubes.  But we have to guarantee taht I can finish a cure soon.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

whoa, I'm still V/LA in the head basically, so I'm going to defer to you all.  Remember that there are some cities with cubes that haven't been drawn yet (due to previous outbreaks) and we could get an instant outbreak due to those cards being on the bottom of the pile.

I think Kinshasa and Khartoum are two of them, maybe there are others taht I forget.  Washington...probably another yellow one.

Also, my turn will focus on getting/curing black to the best of my ability.  Possibly curing on my last turn is a possibility, and in the intervening time, I can instant-clean up any city except black cubes.  But we have to guarantee taht I can finish a cure soon.

Schraeye - I think it's a given you are driving to Dehli on your next turn, with a free (no actions used) treating of red in Shanghai on your way through.  Schneau has identified a good way to get to Cairo, so I think that's what he will do on his next turn.  With him within 3 drives of Delhi, we are guaranteed the win on your last turn, as long as we allow no more than one more outbreak between now and then.

Let me spend a minute thinking about the treating options, and I'll propose my turn.

[shraeye]

Cool, great guys! Sorry I couldn't contribute much of my opinion at the end.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Ok, so I'm going to work backwards here, from the end of my turn:

Possibility A:  I DO draw the Epidemic card.  In that case (setting aside whatever new city we infect from the bottom of the deck - it would just be bad luck to draw a city that already has one or more cubes in it), the only card we are worried about is Cairo, and we can mitigate that for my turn with forecast.  Schneau would have to go there and treat immediately, but we have a plan for that.

Lesser concerns would be Toronto, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Jo'berg, as they could go to 3 cubes, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.  However, leaving me in N. America will mitigate most of that for both this turn and the next turn (with the exception of Jo'berg).  Note the worst case scenario relative to these specific four cards:  Even if 3 of these 4 come up, we would need a maximum of 2 blue cubes and 1 yellow, or 2 yellow and 1 blue.  No outbreaks would trigger, so we would have plenty of yellow cubes (8 now, more if I treat Chicago). Conclusion: if I draw Epidemic, I'm going to want to be in N. America, and having already treated what I can.

Possibility B: I DO NOT draw the Epidemic card.  In that case, the cards we are immediately worried about are Chicago and Riyadh.  If either (or both) of those come up, Jim is near black to handle what would be the 3rd cube in Riyadh, and I am near Chicago, so can handle that, and we still would have Forecast to forestall disaster on the next turn if Schneau draws the Epidemic.  Conclusion: Even if I don't draw Epidemic, I'm going to want to be in N America.

Both possibilities point to me staying here in N. America.  So I propose the following turn:

Drive to Toronto
Treat blue (2 cubes for a single action, as blue is cured)
Drive to Chicago
Treat yellow (2 cubes for a single action, as yellow is cured)

This leaves me close to Atlanta (or Mex. City) for treating, or shuttling to Joberg (or to Bogata, which is within reach of Sao Paulo).  Is everyone ok with this?  I don't see anything that covers as many eventualities as this does.

[Schneau]

Drive to Toronto
Treat blue (2 cubes for a single action, as blue is cured)
Drive to Chicago
Treat yellow (2 cubes for a single action, as yellow is cured)

This leaves me close to Atlanta (or Mex. City) for treating, or shuttling to Joberg (or to Bogata, which is within reach of Sao Paulo).  Is everyone ok with this?  I don't see anything that covers as many eventualities as this does.

The only problem with this is that it only treats 1 of the 4 really scary cities (Toronto) out of:

Toronto, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Jo'berg

That's why I prefer you shuttling to Jo'burg, treat Jo'burg, shuttle to Atlanta, treat Atlanta. It gets rid of the same number of cubes, but clears two cities we know could come up twice soon if two Epidemics hit back-to-back. Of course, Chicago could come up if we don't have an epidemic, so that's scary too. But, the yellow cubes in Chicago aren't going to outbreak, so treating them won't help prevent outbreaks. So, if you treat Chicago, you should treat blue instead of yellow to prevent an outbreak in Chicago. That might be an ok plan, but it doesn't remove any yellow cubes, which is a bit scary if we got one yellow outbreak and a few other yellow cards, since we could run out of yellow cubes.

So, I'd be fine if you decide on either of two things: Treating blue cubes in Toronto and Chicago, or treating Jo'burg and Atlanta. Feel free to make either move.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Drive to Toronto
Treat blue (2 cubes for a single action, as blue is cured)
Drive to Chicago
Treat yellow (2 cubes for a single action, as yellow is cured)

This leaves me close to Atlanta (or Mex. City) for treating, or shuttling to Joberg (or to Bogata, which is within reach of Sao Paulo).  Is everyone ok with this?  I don't see anything that covers as many eventualities as this does.

The only problem with this is that it only treats 1 of the 4 really scary cities (Toronto) out of:

Toronto, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Jo'berg

That's why I prefer you shuttling to Jo'burg, treat Jo'burg, shuttle to Atlanta, treat Atlanta. It gets rid of the same number of cubes, but clears two cities we know could come up twice soon if two Epidemics hit back-to-back. Of course, Chicago could come up if we don't have an epidemic, so that's scary too. But, the yellow cubes in Chicago aren't going to outbreak, so treating them won't help prevent outbreaks. So, if you treat Chicago, you should treat blue instead of yellow to prevent an outbreak in Chicago. That might be an ok plan, but it doesn't remove any yellow cubes, which is a bit scary if we got one yellow outbreak and a few other yellow cards, since we could run out of yellow cubes.

So, I'd be fine if you decide on either of two things: Treating blue cubes in Toronto and Chicago, or treating Jo'burg and Atlanta. Feel free to make either move.

Qvist, my move is:

1) Shuttle to Johannesburg
2) Treat all yellow cubes with one action
3) Shuttle to Atlanta
4) Treat all blue cubes with one action
5) If I draw Epidemic, I will likely play Forecast, so please stop after infecting a new city from the bottom of the pile while we discuss matters in thread.

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws Essen, Kinshasa

Infector: Beijing, Ho Chi Minh City, Istanbul



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Jakarta, Baghdad

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Forecast, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo


Schneau's next.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Atlanta, Mexico City, Los Angeles, Cairo, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Istanbul
Infection top of deck (don't know order):  Bogotá, Chicago, Paris, Madrid, Riyadh, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile: Paris, Buenos Aires, Jo'berg, Riyadh, Mumbai, Chennai, Shanghai, Hong Kong, HCM City, Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC  EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - Cairo

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (CURRENT TURN)
2 - shraeye
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

As far as I can tell, this doesn't change much. So, I'm thinking of: shuttle to Atlanta, charter flight to Cairo, treat, treat. I could replace one of the treats with building a RS, which could be helpful for getting SFS to the Middle East if necessary, but probably isn't worthwhile. Thoughts?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

As far as I can tell, this doesn't change much. So, I'm thinking of: shuttle to Atlanta, charter flight to Cairo, treat, treat. I could replace one of the treats with building a RS, which could be helpful for getting SFS to the Middle East if necessary, but probably isn't worthwhile. Thoughts?

I think I will continue to be of more use in the general neighborhood I'm in.  I can charter anywhere in the world out of Chicago with the Chicago card if a true emergency arises.  I think you go ahead and move as you wrote it.  The RS will be less useful than the second cube being treated if the Epidemic hits your draw.

I was really hoping for another Special Event card.  My draws have been extremely unhelpful for my special role, but that's shuffle luck.

[Schneau]

Ok, here we go:

1) Shuttle to Atlanta
2) Charter flight to Cairo (discard Atlanta)
3) Treat 1 cube in Cairo
4) Treat 1 cube in Cairo

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm going to be unavailable from about 9:00 pm tonite until about 1:00 pm tomorrow (forum time).  But with only 5 turns left, we may be done by then.

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Paris, Shanghai

Infector: Madrid, Chicago, Riyadh



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Jakarta, Baghdad

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Forecast, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa
Forecast Examine the top 6 cards of the Infection Draw Pile, rearrange them in the order of your choice, then place them back on the pile.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo


shraeye's next.

[Jimmmmm]

So shraeye can just drive to Kolkata and then I can either give him Kolkata or build a station there, depending on whether he draws another black card. Anyone have a better idea?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Atlanta, Mexico City, Los Angeles, Cairo, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Istanbul, Madrid, Riyadh, Chicago
Infection top of deck (don't know order):  Bogotá, Paris, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order): Buenos Aires, Jo'berg, Riyadh, Mumbai, Chennai, Hong Kong, HCM City, Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC  EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - Chicago
Red - none
Black - Riyadh

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (CURRENT TURN Epidemic will be drawn)
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

So shraeye can just drive to Kolkata and then I can either give him Kolkata or build a station there, depending on whether he draws another black card. Anyone have a better idea?

I think your turn will likely be better used treating cubes in critical cities, whether black cities or by chartering a flight from Baghdad to wherever is critical after this next epidemic.

I will likely build a RS and end my turn in Karachi, meaning shraeye just has to get there, get my card, and cure black for us to win. So, if he ends his turn in Delhi, he can drive to Karachi, get Karachi from me, and cure black. I can't think of an extra action for him to use that would be helpful, so he might as well spend this turn driving to Delhi.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So shraeye can just drive to Kolkata and then I can either give him Kolkata or build a station there, depending on whether he draws another black card. Anyone have a better idea?

I don't think it's that easy. We will be drawing Epidemic here, and need to treat Riyadh AND Chicago in the next two turns, even with Forecast helping us.  I still think Shraeye drives to Delhi, and the card he takes will be from Schneau (Delhi) on his last turn. There is only a 3 in 11 chance Shraeye will draw a black (because he WILL draw an Epidemic).  I'd rather not risk the entire game on that sort of probability, when we may not need to.

That being said, I'm concerned about this: The worst case scenario upon post-epidemic infector phase is that Riyadh AND Chicago come up in the 6 cards that we get to see with Forecast.  We would move BOTH of them to the bottom three of the six cards, so they would be drawn on Jimm's turn.  I don't see any way to get both those cities treated on Shraeye's turn  + Jimm's turn.  Jim can drive to Riyadh and treat 2 cubes, or he can drive to Baghdad, Charter to Chicago, and treat all the yellow and all the blue, but he can't do both (unless I've missed something).  We need Shraeye in Delhi, AND we really can't get him anywhere else anyway with the cards he has in hand.

I think what we need to do is work out the math on which of the two choices above is the best for Jimm's turn.  If it turns out that that is to leave Riyadh untreated, it would only be exposed on Jim's turn, it WOULD outbreak, which would put NOTHING else at risk.  We can afford that outbreak, and only that one. On my turn, I'd drive to Chicago, charter to Riyadh and treat two cubes.

To summarize, right now I'm thinking that Jim's turn needs to be:

Drive to Baghdad
Charter to Chicago
Treat all blue
Treat all yellow

This is because Chicago getting infected would put a cube in Toronto (among others) and puts us at further risk on subsequent turns.  What do you guys think?

[shraeye]

So, my turn is clear.  Must drive to Delhi to cure black before the end of the game, right?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So, my turn is clear.  Must drive to Delhi to cure black before the end of the game, right?

Agreed.  Even if we wanted you to do something else, there is no way to do it with the cards in your hand.  You can go ahead and move.

I'd love for you to weigh in on the math (probabilities) that I've talked about re: Jim's turn.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist, we WILL be using Forecast when Shraeye draws this epidemic, so please tell us what the 6 cards are to re-arrange.

Shraeye - reach into your box of magic spells and draw One Quiet Night (or Resilient Population) with your epidemic, would you?

[Schneau]

So shraeye can just drive to Kolkata and then I can either give him Kolkata or build a station there, depending on whether he draws another black card. Anyone have a better idea?

I don't think it's that easy. We will be drawing Epidemic here, and need to treat Riyadh AND Chicago in the next two turns, even with Forecast helping us.  I still think Shraeye drives to Delhi, and the card he takes will be from Schneau (Delhi) on his last turn. There is only a 3 in 11 chance Shraeye will draw a black (because he WILL draw an Epidemic).  I'd rather not risk the entire game on that sort of probability, when we may not need to.

I'm not following your probabilities. shraeye doesn't need to draw a black card if I give him Kolkata. So, there's no reason that won't work, unless there's something else I'll need to use my actions on.

At this point, everything depends on what we see with Forecast, so we might as well hold off on discussing all the options until that time.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

So shraeye can just drive to Kolkata and then I can either give him Kolkata or build a station there, depending on whether he draws another black card. Anyone have a better idea?

I don't think it's that easy. We will be drawing Epidemic here, and need to treat Riyadh AND Chicago in the next two turns, even with Forecast helping us.  I still think Shraeye drives to Delhi, and the card he takes will be from Schneau (Delhi) on his last turn. There is only a 3 in 11 chance Shraeye will draw a black (because he WILL draw an Epidemic).  I'd rather not risk the entire game on that sort of probability, when we may not need to.

I'm not following your probabilities. shraeye doesn't need to draw a black card if I give him Kolkata. So, there's no reason that won't work, unless there's something else I'll need to use my actions on.

At this point, everything depends on what we see with Forecast, so we might as well hold off on discussing all the options until that time.

Agreed with your final point.

My comment about the probabilities of Shraeye drawing a black was actually addressed to Jim, who wanted to drive closer to Shraeye and give him Kolkata.  You Schneau, can't give Shraeye Kolkata, as it is in Jim's hand.  You will likely give Shraeye Delhi, unless something changes drastically.

[Schneau]

My comment about the probabilities of Shraeye drawing a black was actually addressed to Jim, who wanted to drive closer to Shraeye and give him Kolkata.  You Schneau, can't give Shraeye Kolkata, as it is in Jim's hand.  You will likely give Shraeye Delhi, unless something changes drastically.

D'oh. I meant Karachi everywhere I said Kolkata. Karachi will likely be a better option, since it will give me an extra action to treat a cube on the way, but I'm guessing either Karachi or Kolkata will work.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

My comment about the probabilities of Shraeye drawing a black was actually addressed to Jim, who wanted to drive closer to Shraeye and give him Kolkata.  You Schneau, can't give Shraeye Kolkata, as it is in Jim's hand.  You will likely give Shraeye Delhi, unless something changes drastically.

D'oh. I meant Karachi everywhere I said Kolkata. Karachi will likely be a better option, since it will give me an extra action to treat a cube on the way, but I'm guessing either Karachi or Kolkata will work.

Agreed, and anywhere will work if Shraeye can arrive in that city (where you own the card) with two actions left, one to share, one to cure.  But there has to be a research station.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Light bulb moment!!! Since epidemic will be drawn here, Chicago and Riyadh will never come up again. They will be "buried" under the cards that are currently in the infection discard pile (and that will be reshuffled on this epidemic).  That's actually good news, and may give Jimm a lot of flexibility that we didn't think he had.

[shraeye]

Light bulb moment!!! Since epidemic will be drawn here, Chicago and Riyadh will never come up again. They will be "buried" under the cards that are currently in the infection discard pile (and that will be reshuffled on this epidemic).  That's actually good news, and may give Jimm a lot of flexibility that we didn't think he had.

Good thought SFS!

My move:
Drive to Shanghai
Drive to Hong Kong
Drive to Kolkatta
Drive to Delhi

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

OK baby, be the card, be the card.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Well, looks like we won't get an update tonight.  I'll check in sometime tomorrow afternoon, when I get off the plane.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist - I don't know if this is necessary, but I give permission for anyone in the game to call for the play of the Forecast card from my hand at any time today while I am unavailable.

[Qvist]

Well, looks like we won't get an update tonight.  I'll check in sometime tomorrow afternoon, when I get off the plane.

Sorry, I'll update probably in ~12 hours. I won't be able to do it before.

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws Epidemic, Buenos Aires

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in St. Petersburg (3 cubes)
Intensify: Infection Discard Pile is shuffled and placed on top of the draw pile.
SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher plays Forecast.
The top 6 cards are Atlanta, St. Petersburg, Toronto, New York, Mexico City, Lima

[shraeye]

Well, we have
StP - 3 blue
Toronto - 2 blue
New York - 1 blue
Atlanta - 0 blue

Mexico City - 2 yellow
Lima - 1 yellow

Other critical cities:
Chicago, Riyadh.  (we could afford a outbreak in Riyadh, though obviously I don't want it; an outbreak in chicago that chain-reactions chicago will cause a loss)

[Schneau]

Jimmmmm can get to St. Petersburg on his turn, and probably should go there and treat it to avoid an outbreak. We can afford 1 more outbreak, but we might as well hold on as long as possible. So, I'd say St. Petersburg should be in the bottom 3 cards.

It would also make sense to have the 3 cities with fewest cubes be the ones drawn on shraeye's turn, just in case we get another immediate outbreak on Jimmmmm's turn. So, I think we should have the order be (top to bottom): Atlanta, New York, Lima, St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Toronto. The order of the last three could theoretically matter if there was an epidemic on Jimmmmm's turn, so it makes sense to have St. Pete first, since it will be empty by then.

If someone else agrees, re-post the above ordering in bold and let's make it so.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I concur that the order should be:

top to bottom: Atlanta, New York, Lima, St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Toronto. Qvist, please make it so.

Jim has to go to St. Petersberg and treat on his turn, I'll handle Chicago, Toronto, etc on mine.  That should stave off disaster.  With luck, someone will draw OQN or Resilient Population, which will also help.

I'll check back in sometime tomorrow.

[Qvist]

shraeye Medic draws Epidemic, Buenos Aires

EPIDEMIC
Increase: Infection Rate rises.
Infect: Epidemic in St. Petersburg (3 cubes)
Intensify: Infection Discard Pile is shuffled and placed on top of the draw pile.
SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher plays Forecast.
The top 6 cards are Atlanta, St. Petersburg, Toronto, New York, Mexico City, Lima
Infector: Atlanta, New York, Lima



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Jakarta, Baghdad

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Buenos Aires


Jimmmmm's next.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Atlanta
Infection top of deck, in order: St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Toronto
Infection top of deck, next (don't know the order): Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Los Angeles, Cairo, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Istanbul, Madrid, Riyadh, Chicago
Infection top of deck, after that (don't know the order):  Bogotá, Paris, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order): Jo'berg, Riyadh, Mumbai, Chennai, Hong Kong, HCM City, Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - none
Blue - St. Petersburg, Chicago
Red - none
Black - Riyadh

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm (CURRENT TURN)
2 - SFS
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

Well, Jimmmmm obviously needs to treat St. Petersburg, which takes 3 of his actions. I can't think of anything worthwhile to do with his fourth action, so he might as well drive anywhere that pleases him.

[Jimmmmm]

Drive to Moscow
Drive to St. Petersburg
Treat St. Petersburg, removing all cubes
Direct Flight to Jakarta (discard Jakarta)

I think my work here is done, off to Indonesia for a holiday. Thanks guys!

[Schneau]

Drive to Moscow
Drive to St. Petersburg
Treat St. Petersburg, removing all cubes
Direct Flight to Jakarta (discard Jakarta)

I think my work here is done, off to Indonesia for a holiday. Thanks guys!

Have fun!

[Qvist]

Jimmmmm Scientist (white) draws Chennai, Hong Kong

Infector: St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Toronto



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Baghdad, Chennai, Hong Kong

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Buenos Aires


SwitchedFromStarcraft's next.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Atlanta, St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Lima
Infection top of deck (don't know the order): Seoul, Johannesburg, Los Angeles, Cairo, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Istanbul, Madrid, Riyadh, Chicago
Infection top of deck, after that (don't know the order):  Bogotá, Paris, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order): Jo'berg, Riyadh, Mumbai, HCM City, Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - MC (if epidemic)
Blue - Chicago (if no epidemic), Toronto (if epidemic)
Red - none
Black - Riyadh (if no epidemic)

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

EDIT: Fixed Toronto / Lima mixup.

[Schneau]

So, at this point I see no way around taking some risks with the next epidemic. We've gotten so unlucky with the special cards - we could really use One Quiet Night or Resilient Population about now.

Anyway, I think SFS should definitely treat Chicago, and then either MC, Toronto, or Riyadh (chartering from Chicago). It depends on what seems more risky, treating Riyadh and leaving MC and Toronto open during a epidemic, or treating MC or Toronto and leaving Riyadh open if there's not an epidemic.

I think I'd vote for MC being the second treat, since Riyadh has less of a chance of coming up if there's not an epidemic than MC or Toronto have if there is an epidemic.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Drive to Moscow
Drive to St. Petersburg
Treat St. Petersburg, removing all cubes
Direct Flight to Jakarta (discard Jakarta)

I think my work here is done, off to Indonesia for a holiday. Thanks guys!

I like your style.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm going to think about this for a few minutes.  Will try to post again before noon forum time, but if I cant, it will be this evening.

I'd like to hear from Shraeye, with maybe some math.  There are 10 card left in Player draw, so I have a 20% chance of drawing a epidemic.  I think that needs to be balanced against the math of the other problem cards if we don't draw Epidemic, but the analysis is beyond me right now, sitting in a restaurant with food arriving.

Edit:  It is now clear that I was out in left field with post #328.  I guess I was looking at an out-of-date status post, which is easy to do the way I set up my tabs for reference when composing posts.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Scheau, can you correct post #344? In the infection discard, the second city listed should be Lima, not Toronto.

Then Lima needs to be removed from the Infection Draw Pile list.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

OK, I have a (1 in 8 +1 in 7) chance of drawing epidemic, so I have to play that it will not come up.  The cities at risk if NO epidemic comes up are Chicago and Riyadh.  Schneau will handle Riyadh on the way to Karachi, so I'm proposing to treat Chicago.  THen the question is Toronto or Mex. City and Mex city is more dangerous.

I propose:
Drive to Chicago
Treat all blue
Drive to Mex. City
Treat all yellow.

Any objections or other suggestions?

[Schneau]

OK, I have a (1 in 8 +1 in 7) chance of drawing epidemic, so I have to play that it will not come up.  The cities at risk if NO epidemic comes up are Chicago and Riyadh.  Schneau will handle Riyadh on the way to Karachi, so I'm proposing to treat Chicago.  THen the question is Toronto or Mex. City and Mex city is more dangerous.

I propose:
Drive to Chicago
Treat all blue
Drive to Mex. City
Treat all yellow.

Any objections or other suggestions?

Sounds good to me! Make sure you cross your fingers when you click "Post"!

[shraeye]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Atlanta, St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Toronto
Infection top of deck (don't know the order): Seoul, Lima, Johannesburg, Los Angeles, Cairo, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Istanbul, Madrid, Riyadh, Chicago
Infection top of deck, after that (don't know the order):  Bogotá, Paris, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order): Jo'berg, Riyadh, Mumbai, HCM City, Gov't. Grant; One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - MC (if epidemic)
Blue - Chicago (if no epidemic), Toronto (if epidemic)
Red - none
Black - Riyadh (if no epidemic)

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (CURRENT TURN)
2 - Schneau
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

Why is Toronto in the discard twice?

[shraeye]

I'm going to think about this for a few minutes.  Will try to post again before noon forum time, but if I cant, it will be this evening.

I'd like to hear from Shraeye, with maybe some math.  There are 10 card left in Player draw, so I have a 20% chance of drawing a epidemic.  I think that needs to be balanced against the math of the other problem cards if we don't draw Epidemic, but the analysis is beyond me right now, sitting in a restaurant with food arriving.

Edit:  It is now clear that I was out in left field with post #328.  I guess I was looking at an out-of-date status post, which is easy to do the way I set up my tabs for reference when composing posts.

Yup, my head is super fuzzy right now due to some Jim Beam Black.  but i suspect that the risk of Riyadh is minimal, given taht it's buried with a mass of cards. 

Toronto, and MC are high risks

I think treating Chicago and Toronto is critical, because Newyork (with 2) is also in the discard pile.  If we draw both NY andToronto in either order that's 2 outbreaks and we lose.
And frankly, with so few Infector cards inthe discard, if Epidemic comes now, I'm certain that Toronto and NY WILL happen before we can get there to treat them.

It's GOT to be Toronto.

[shraeye]

Math regarding this coming, I'm curious.  Working on it now.

So Epidemic comes 1/4th of time this turn.  When this happens, prob of picking tor AND Ny are 1/7.  So that's a 1/28 chance of losing right now.  But Schneau's entire turn will be getting me Delhi, and My turn will be (Fly to Buenos Aires, drive to Bogota cure, WIN).  So we only have to survive your turn and Schneau's turn.  If you get Epidemic then it actually doesn't matter if you or Schneau draw infectors of NY/Tor or if each does only one, or whatever so actually 6/7th of the time we lose here. .  So that's 5/28 (17.9% chance of losing) Just realized that the new infected place (with 3 added cubes will outbreak if drawn as well.  So either that card or Chicago must be missed).  Wait, that's 6/7, maybe.  soooo, still this is something like 21% loss.  I'm rounding up, and probably not enough, because some of the newly infected places could actually immediately create an outbreak, in which case we get f&@#ed.

If epidemic is slated to come my turn or Jimmm's turn then we're gonna win.

The other scenario is it comes schneau's turn 1/4th of the time.  Then we'll be trying to avoid the double NY/Tor from the 10 cards that get reshuffled (or new place/Tor). that's 7/60.  So overall chances to losing are 1/4*7/60  Pretyt small.

Total losing percent if treating MC are something like 1/4th or more.  I don't like this.

[shraeye]

Life is still bad if we leave MC open, but then we have to draw both of MC/new card to lose from 2 more outbreaks.

This seems like an equal trade with hoping to avoid both of Tor/new card, but in that scenario we also have to worry about Tor/NY leaving the new card undrawn.  This still makes 2 outbreaks by chain reaction.

In summary, TREAT NEW YORK!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Some help you guys are.

So we've got one vote for CHicago and mex. city.  We've got one vote for Toronto.  We've got one vote for NY.  We've got one guy on a beach in Indonesia with an umbrella, a drink, a much smaller umbrella in the drink, and Thai massages on the hour.

I guess it could be worse.  I could be Drew Brees.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

-Snip-
Why is Toronto in the discard twice?

Because Schneau hasn't read 348 yet, or hasnt had time to correct 344.  The first Toronto in that line should be Lima, and Lima should not be in the infection draw pile.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Life is still bad if we leave MC open, but then we have to draw both of MC/new card to lose from 2 more outbreaks.

This seems like an equal trade with hoping to avoid both of Tor/new card, but in that scenario we also have to worry about Tor/NY leaving the new card undrawn.  This still makes 2 outbreaks by chain reaction.

In summary, TREAT NEW YORK!

Qvist, my move is:
1) Shuttle to NYC
2) Treat all blue
3) Drive to Toronto
4) Treat all blue.

Edited to remove my move. 

[Schneau]

Life is still bad if we leave MC open, but then we have to draw both of MC/new card to lose from 2 more outbreaks.

This seems like an equal trade with hoping to avoid both of Tor/new card, but in that scenario we also have to worry about Tor/NY leaving the new card undrawn.  This still makes 2 outbreaks by chain reaction.

In summary, TREAT NEW YORK!

Qvist, my move is:
1) Shuttle to NYC
2) Treat all blue
3) Drive to Toronto
4) Treat all blue.

I've crossed my fingers, but I don't think that's going to matter.

WAIT! WOH! Hold the phone! Why are you treating NYC? I don't see how it could be relevant - it has no chance of outbreaking if you treat Toronto, right? So why not treat Chicago and Toronto, not NYC and Toronto?

[Schneau]

Yup, my head is super fuzzy right now due to some Jim Beam Black.  but i suspect that the risk of Riyadh is minimal, given taht it's buried with a mass of cards. 

Toronto, and MC are high risks

I think treating Chicago and Toronto is critical, because Newyork (with 2) is also in the discard pile.  If we draw both NY andToronto in either order that's 2 outbreaks and we lose.
And frankly, with so few Infector cards inthe discard, if Epidemic comes now, I'm certain that Toronto and NY WILL happen before we can get there to treat them.

It's GOT to be Toronto.

I'm going through the posts from last night more carefully now.

Now that I fixed the list and added Lima to the infector discard, we have the exact same problem with MC / Lima as we do Toronto / NYC. So, it's pick your poison.

[Schneau]

Life is still bad if we leave MC open, but then we have to draw both of MC/new card to lose from 2 more outbreaks.

This seems like an equal trade with hoping to avoid both of Tor/new card, but in that scenario we also have to worry about Tor/NY leaving the new card undrawn.  This still makes 2 outbreaks by chain reaction.

In summary, TREAT NEW YORK!

Yeah, I hope you didn't mean actually treat New York, but just make sure it doesn't outbreak. Treating NYC gives us no help, unless I'm missing something. Treating Chicago / MC or Chicago / Toronto look equally good as far as I can tell, but both options are better than treating NYC / Toronto.

Qvist: Can you hold off on the update until SFS has a chance to reconsider this morning?

[shraeye]

Life is still bad if we leave MC open, but then we have to draw both of MC/new card to lose from 2 more outbreaks.

This seems like an equal trade with hoping to avoid both of Tor/new card, but in that scenario we also have to worry about Tor/NY leaving the new card undrawn.  This still makes 2 outbreaks by chain reaction.

In summary, TREAT NEW YORK!

Oops, I meant Treat Chicago, and then Toronto.  My fault.

[shraeye]

yeah please hold up Qvist, I drunkenly mistyped a city name last night

SFS, my suggestion was supposed to be drive to Chicago, treat, drive to Toronto, treat.  That's where all the math points to at least.

[Schneau]

yeah please hold up Qvist, I drunkenly mistyped a city name last night

SFS, my suggestion was supposed to be drive to Chicago, treat, drive to Toronto, treat.  That's where all the math points to at least.

I can get behind this. I think Chicago/MC has the same math, but it shouldn't matter. (unless the epidemic city is a yellow that doesn't outbreak (Lagos?) and then we outbreak in MC, running out of yellow cubes. But, whatever, that has a really small chance.)

[shraeye]

That's my point Scheau, it's allllmost the same math, except there is an extra case of danger if we decide to treat Chicago/MC (we shouldn't do this).  It's possible and fairly likely that both New York and Toronto get drawn after an epidemic card, but before I get a chance to cure black.  If Toronto stays with 3 and NY with 2, this will chain two outbreaks, and we will lose.

treating Chicago/Toronto is the best choice.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

yeah please hold up Qvist, I drunkenly mistyped a city name last night

SFS, my suggestion was supposed to be drive to Chicago, treat, drive to Toronto, treat.  That's where all the math points to at least.

So can I nominate this post for best (non-mafia) drunken post?

Ok, so we will try this again (and I agree with the pick your poison aspect of this situation).

Qvist: I wish to:

Drive to Chicago
Treat all blue
Drive to Toronto
Treat all blue

If Mex city goes off, we have enough yellow cubes, so my gut now tells me that blue is more important.  And as you all know, I'm never wrong. 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Qvist is online now, maybe we will know soon.  I'll check back in later.  Even if we lose, this has been fun guys, and I would play again.

[Schneau]

That's my point Scheau, it's allllmost the same math, except there is an extra case of danger if we decide to treat Chicago/MC (we shouldn't do this).  It's possible and fairly likely that both New York and Toronto get drawn after an epidemic card, but before I get a chance to cure black.  If Toronto stays with 3 and NY with 2, this will chain two outbreaks, and we will lose.

treating Chicago/Toronto is the best choice.

And I'm saying that MC has 3 cubes, Lima has 2 cubes, and both are in the discard. So, it's the same case as Chicago/Toronto. Right? Whether it is or isn't the same, treating Chicago and Toronto is probably just as good as anything.

[shraeye]

Oh, I missed that Lima was also in the discard, because of the doubly written toronto.  Yes, then you are right.  I'll start crossing my fingers now

[Qvist]

SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher draws Johannesburg, Government Grant
Government Grant: Add a Research Station to any city for free.

Infector: Cairo, Seoul, Istanbul



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Baghdad, Chennai, Hong Kong

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa, Johannesburg, Government Grant
Government Grant: Add a Research Station to any city for free.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Buenos Aires


Schneau's next. Last Round begins. 4 Turns left.

[shraeye]

As long as Schneau ends in Delhi, my turn can be
(take card)
fly to Buenos aires
go to Bogota
cure disease

This means Schneau has the opportunity to treat either Istanbul or Riyadh.  I recommend Istanbul.

[Schneau]

Infection discard: New York, Toronto, Atlanta, St. Petersburg, Mexico City, Lima, Istanbul, Seoul, Cairo
Infection top of deck (don't know the order): Johannesburg, Los Angeles, Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing, Madrid, Riyadh, Chicago
Infection top of deck, after that (don't know the order):  Bogotá, Paris, Miami, Sao Paulo

Player Card Draw Pile (don't know order): Riyadh, Mumbai, HCM City, One Quiet Nt.; Resilient Popul. EPIDEMIC

Critical Cities:

Yellow - MC (if epidemic)
Blue - none
Red - none
Black - Riyadh (if no epidemic), Istanbul (if epidemic)

Epidemic Schedule:

------------------- 1st Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
------------------- 2nd Epidemic Cycle
2 - SFS (EPIDEMIC)
2 - Schneau (safe)
2 - shraeye (safe)
2 - Jimmmmm (safe)
2 - SFS (safe)
------------------- 3rd Epidemic Cycle
2 - Schneau - (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 4th Epidemic Cycle
2 - shraeye (no epidemic)
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (no epidemic)
2 - shraeye (EPIDEMIC)
------------------- 5th (last) Epidemic Cycle
2 - Jimmmmm (no epidemic)
2 - SFS (no epidemic)
2 - Schneau (CURRENT TURN)
2 - shraeye
2 - Jimmmmm

[Schneau]

I can't believe we never drew One Quiet Night or Resilient Population!

With Government Grant, we can just add a research station wherever shraeye is. So, I could end in Delhi or Karachi, both of which I have. Since I can't cure both Istanbul and Riyadh, it would probably be best to treat one cube in Cairo and one in Riyadh. Treating Cairo would help if there was an epidemic with Istanbul and Cairo both drawn.

So, I propose the following:
1) Treat Cairo
2) Drive to Riyadh
3) Treat Riyadh
4) Drive to Karachi

We can use Government Grant to build a RS in Karachi, so that shraeye can drive to Karachi, take my Karachi card, and cure black. Sound good?

[shraeye]

ok, so I get karachi from you instead?

[Schneau]

ok, so I get karachi from you instead?

Yup. That works, right?

[Schneau]

No complaints, so I'm doing it:

1) Treat Cairo
2) Drive to Riyadh
3) Treat Riyadh
4) Drive to Karachi

[Qvist]

Schneau Operations Expert draws Riyadh, Mumbai

Infector: Los Angeles, Beijing, Ho Chi Minh City



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Kolkata, Khartoum, Baghdad, Chennai, Hong Kong

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Seoul, Chicago, Essen, Kinshasa, Johannesburg, Government Grant
Government Grant: Add a Research Station to any city for free.

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid, Tokyo, Dehli, Paris, Shanghai, Riyadh, Mumbai

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Buenos Aires


Schneau, please discard 2 cards.
shraeye's next. 3 Turns left.

[Schneau]

I'll discard Paris and Shanghai.

And we win!!!! Yay!

[Jimmmmm]

Alright Doctor shraeye, bring it home for us.

[Jimmmmm]

So I guess we use SFS's Government Grant on Karachi or Riyadh?

[Schneau]

So I guess we use SFS's Government Grant on Karachi or Riyadh?

Karachi seems as good as anything.

[Jimmmmm]

I vote Riyadh, so we can remove some cubes and win the game with the last action.

Of course, it doesn't matter.

[shraeye]

1. Drive to Karachi
2. Take Karachi card from Scheau
(Use gov't grant in Riyadh)
3. Drive to Riyadh
4. Cure black
(treating two cubes automatically)

5. Celebrate.

[Qvist]

Do you want an update here??

Players win!!

[Qvist]

After the multiple outbreak turn I really thought you had lost, but I didn't took into account that one cube you treated in that turn. That cube saved you all. Grats. Well played.

[shraeye]

Wait, we were down to just one cube left in a color?  I don't remember that.  This was a really fun game!!

[Qvist]

Schneau Operation Expert draws Karachi, Madrid.

Infector: Bogotá, Los Angeles

Outbreak 3: Disease in San Francisco, Chicago, Sydney, Mexico City
Outbreak 4: Disease in Miami, Chicago, Lima, Bogotá
Outbreak 5: Disease in Miami, Sao Paulo, Lima, Buenos Aires



Player 1: Jimmmmm Scientist (white)
Manila, Kolkata, Tehran

Player 2: SwitchedFromStarcraft Researcher
Sydney, Miami

Player 3: Schneau Operations Expert
Lima, Atlanta, Bangkok, Karachi, Madrid

Player 4: shraeye Medic
Algiers, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, London, Istanbul

shraeye's next.

Actually to zero cubes.

[Schneau]

Yay us! Thanks for the game everyone, it was a lot of fun! I wouldn't mind being in another Pandemic game if another starts up!

[Tables]

Congrats, guys

Just to check, you reached a point where you had 6 cards left, 3 of which were Special Events? Is that correct? If so... wow, nice play to get over that.

[Schneau]

Congrats, guys

Just to check, you reached a point where you had 6 cards left, 3 of which were Special Events? Is that correct? If so... wow, nice play to get over that.

Yeah, the lack of Special Events almost led to our downfall. But, we held on!

[Jimmmmm]

Well done guys, thanks for playing and thanks to Qvist for hosting.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Congrats, guys

Just to check, you reached a point where you had 6 cards left, 3 of which were Special Events? Is that correct? If so... wow, nice play to get over that.

Yeah, the lack of Special Events almost led to our downfall. But, we held on!

Well played guys, and it was a LOT of fun.  I'd also like to play again, as I really want to see the effects of a dispatcher in a multi person game.  I'm still V/LA until Tuesday night though, so likely wouldn't sign up until after that.

I think our card draws (and lack thereof) really worked against us - I didn't draw as many cards as I could with the two Epidemics, which was a shame, as I could have been handing things off.  The lack of the Special Event cards too, but hey, we found a way to win anyway.

Qvist - THanks so much for moderating this.  I'm sure it was labor intensive.  Are you actually taking pictures of your board at home, and posting them, or what?

[Qvist]

No, I used a game engine called VASSAL and it wasn't that labour intensive although I was really busy in the last couple of days, so I wasn't able to update as regularly as I wanted. There will be Pandemic III soon, but not next week, maybe in the following week.

[Jimmmmm]

I really want to see the effects of a dispatcher in a multi person game.

Yeah, I must say Dispatcher is probably my favourite role, and is surprisingly powerful. It just gives you so many more options.

[shraeye]

I just played a game without medic with some friends.  We did not do so well.

[Voltgloss]

Nicely played, guys!