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[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1-7

Robz888 (4): Insomniac, ashersky, O, theorel
pingpongsam (3): Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Cuzz
jotheonah (1): pingpongsam
sparky5856 (2): cayvie, Eevee
O (1): Robz888
Eevee (1): jotheonah

Not voting {1}: sparky5856

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 10:30 a.m. EDT

[jotheonah]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I'm switching back to Vote: PPS since my case on Eevee is contingent on PPS also being scum. In fact, PPS is not a bad lynch since if he's town I can go after O and if he's scum I can go after Eevee.

[pingpongsam]

Um, pretty sure I Unvoted and then Vote Robz but I don't mind doing it again.

[jotheonah]

Um, pretty sure I Unvoted and then Vote Robz but I don't mind doing it again.

use the colon, it makes it more likely you'll be counted.

This is a perfectly reasonable self-preserving switch from town or scum.

[Voltgloss]

Um, pretty sure I Unvoted and then Vote Robz but I don't mind doing it again.

You hadn't before, but you have now 

Vote Count 1-8

Robz888 (5): Insomniac, ashersky, O, theorel, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (4): Grujah, Captain_Frisk, Cuzz, jotheonah
sparky5856 (2): cayvie, Eevee
O (1): Robz888

Not voting {1}: sparky5856

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 10:30 a.m. EDT

[Eevee]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I'm switching back to Vote: PPS since my case on Eevee is contingent on PPS also being scum. In fact, PPS is not a bad lynch since if he's town I can go after O and if he's scum I can go after Eevee.

So your entire case against me is dependent on PPS flipping scum -> if PPS flips town, you won't suspect me anymore? Don't see how voting me makes any sense in that case. (And that I can absolutely agree with, if PPS is scum my actions must look very scummy. Although maybe too blatantly obviously scummy to actually be mafia, but still.)

[Insomniac]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I was thinking it was next week but I could have misinterpreted.

[jotheonah]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I'm switching back to Vote: PPS since my case on Eevee is contingent on PPS also being scum. In fact, PPS is not a bad lynch since if he's town I can go after O and if he's scum I can go after Eevee.

So your entire case against me is dependent on PPS flipping scum -> if PPS flips town, you won't suspect me anymore? Don't see how voting me makes any sense in that case. (And that I can absolutely agree with, if PPS is scum my actions must look very scummy. Although maybe too blatantly obviously scummy to actually be mafia, but still.)

PPS flipping town won't clear you, but you and O defended PPS in very different ways. Yours looked an awful lot like coaching a partner, O's looked like distancing himself from a lynch he knew was town.

[Eevee]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I was thinking it was next week but I could have misinterpreted.

I was thinking next week too. I think my suggestion (next wednesday) is easily far enough, we already have two major wagons and what not! I don't understand how the Robz wagon got so huge (poor guy never gets to see day 2 it seems), can people who vote for him give their reasons for doing so? He went after PPS pretty hard, but I can totally see town-Robz being pissed at PPS and doing so (even if I disagree and don't find PPS scummy myself).

@joth
I was absolutely trying to coach my team mate. It is more likely (statistically and also because of my read) that PPS is town, so it is in my best interest to make him play as well as possible!

[Eevee]

Seeing Ozle post after a long break apparently made me go overboard with the exclamation marks.

[jotheonah]

Is tomorrow still our soft-deadline?

I was thinking it was next week but I could have misinterpreted.

I was thinking next week too. I think my suggestion (next wednesday) is easily far enough, we already have two major wagons and what not! I don't understand how the Robz wagon got so huge (poor guy never gets to see day 2 it seems), can people who vote for him give their reasons for doing so? He went after PPS pretty hard, but I can totally see town-Robz being pissed at PPS and doing so (even if I disagree and don't find PPS scummy myself).

@joth
I was absolutely trying to coach my team mate. It is more likely (statistically and also because of my read) that PPS is town, so it is in my best interest to make him play as well as possible!

Robz plays plenty of forum mafia. I have no qualms about lynching him Day 1 in a game or two if he gets himself in that position. In this case, I think he's town.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm still voting PPS - and have no plans to change.  I have a newly implemented policy of not allowing good players to make explicitly (and self admitted) anti town play.

Morgrim wants to claim VT day 1?  Ashersky wants to claim doctor a day too late?  Fine. 

PPS?  Not a chance.

[jotheonah]

I hesitate to ask this, but ... do you consider me a good enough player to lynch me for bad behavior?

[Captain_Frisk]

I hesitate to ask this, but ... do you consider me a good enough player to lynch me for bad behavior?

I don't view random voting as bad as an unforced claim, plus I knew you were town!

[Insomniac]

I'm still voting PPS - and have no plans to change.  I have a newly implemented policy of not allowing good players to make explicitly (and self admitted) anti town play.

Morgrim wants to claim VT day 1?  Ashersky wants to claim doctor a day too late?  Fine. 

PPS?  Not a chance.

Whats with the digs on Ash and Morgrim?

Also this,

I hesitate to ask this, but ... do you consider me a good enough player to lynch me for bad behavior?

I don't understand how the Robz wagon got so huge (poor guy never gets to see day 2 it seems), can people who vote for him give their reasons for doing so? He went after PPS pretty hard, but I can totally see town-Robz being pissed at PPS and doing so (even if I disagree and don't find PPS scummy myself).

Absolutely! He went after PPS super hard and well its a good place for scum Robz to be, if PPS flips town then Robz can defend it as a policy lynch day 2, "I wasn't scummy! I policy lynched the scummy guy".

Additionally I felt that before theorel voted for Robz that Robz was doing a bit of flailing around, he got called out on not contributing and a few other people added pressure to him and he seemed to squirm a bit in a way I'm not used to seeing town Robz under pressure. Scum Robz however I have seen do that.

[Eevee]

@Joth
The thing is, it's not like he has always flipped scum. If we always lynch him day 1 for the same behavior and he always flips town, the blame is at least partially on us? That being said, I have no opinion of his alignment here (and I find him very hard to read), that's why I asked his voters to present their case to me so I could evaluate.

@Frisk
PPS has only played in two games before this one? They were both masterfully played, sure, but do you remember how he was like in the beginning of mafia VI? Additionally, I don't believe in lynching guys I think are town as a punishment for bad play. And I do see PPS thinking his gambit was a good town move as a reasonable possibility. He seems like the kind of guy who could try something new and creative, even if it's not the good kind of new in this case.

[Eevee]

Thank you Insomniac, seems like an ok case. However, it's still mostly based on personal reads (not like we can really have hard facts yet on day 1), and since I don't have those reads, I'll keep my vote on sparky. If it somehow got to the deadline and I had to choose between PPS, Robz and a nolynch, I'd hammer Robz in a heartbeat though.

[Captain_Frisk]

Whats with the digs on Ash and Morgrim?

Morgrim has a history of anti town play as town.  Asher was an obvious new player making new player mistakes in MX.

PPS has demonstrated excellent play in M6 and 7.    He has no such excuse.

[Robz888]

Whats with the digs on Ash and Morgrim?

Morgrim has a history of anti town play as town.  Asher was an obvious new player making new player mistakes in MX.

PPS has demonstrated excellent play in M6 and 7.    He has no such excuse.

Agreed a million times over, except I've also grown weary of cutting Morgrim slack. Vote: Pingpongsam, especially if it's between him and me.

[Eevee]

Both Robz and PPS at L-2 now.

[Captain_Frisk]

Well - we all know that if you live until tomorrow - you must be scum, right?  Thats an easy way to test your alignment

[Robz888]

Well - we all know that if you live until tomorrow - you must be scum, right?  Thats an easy way to test your alignment

It is!

[Insomniac]

@Eevee on the sparky case is there a reason that his defending PPS is different than you, O, or I? I mean I see he makes an assumption in one statement but it could easily be over confident townie syndrome or feeling like he's already said he thinks PPS is town enough.

[Insomniac]

Additioanlly Eevee do you have any reasons above and beyond cayvie's case? I mean I pointed out he was suspicious to me a while ago and he still is so I'm interested to hear more from others on it.

[Eevee]

Like cayvie points out, angrybirds (very subtly but still) sounds like he knows PPS is going to flip town, which is a lot different from my "I think him being an experimental VT is more likely than him being a gambit-y scum" stance. I've only seen AB once before (in cayvie's major arcana, which was a huge game, so only vague recollections), there he seemed neutral to townish to me and here he looks neutral to scummy to me (this is ignoring all facts and evidence, just from gut feeling). Other than that, he has stayed in the sidelines, which is where scum is often found day 1 in my experience. If he and his scumpair are both avoiding all the suspicion (=if he is scum with anyone but Robz or PPS), he has no reason to actively try to advance either of our wagons, because both options are fine for his faction.

A lot of little things adding up. Generally taking positions I would expect scum to take day 1.