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[Qvist]

Yeah, but that's pretty unlikely, isn't it?

sure, but it's also simplistic

i'm sure there are other cards you wouldn't want to use willy-nilly

maybe a roleblock, or a bus drive, or a redirect?

Any other opinions here?

[Captain_Frisk]

sorry sorry sorry everyone

i have clarification from archetype

apparently my rats remains active the whole game; it masks my cards as well as galzria's.

i played possession, and it's hidden under some rats.

Man that is scummy.  Even if you thought it was just a 1 day thing, why on earth would you play it day 1 vs. any of the other cards in your hand?

none of my cards seemed better for n1 use

i suppose i could have not used a card, but that sounded boring.

So you willingly destroyed information?

Vote: Cayvie

[cayvie]

yeah

i chose "use a card" over "not use a card"

sorry

[Morgrim7]

hi all.

[ashersky]

vote: cayvie

Knowingly destroying info was def anti-town.

[jotheonah]

btws, I can confirm Rats does what cayvie says it does because I have a copy in my hand. And I also would not have thought it lasted all game.

[Captain_Frisk]

btws, I can confirm Rats does what cayvie says it does because I have a copy in my hand. And I also would not have thought it lasted all game.

Would you have played it?

[Captain_Frisk]

btws, I can confirm Rats does what cayvie says it does because I have a copy in my hand. And I also would not have thought it lasted all game.

Would you have played it?

Can you think of any plausible town reason to do so?

[ashersky]

btws, I can confirm Rats does what cayvie says it does because I have a copy in my hand. And I also would not have thought it lasted all game.

Would you have played it?

Clearly not, since he didn't.

[ashersky]

btws, I can confirm Rats does what cayvie says it does because I have a copy in my hand. And I also would not have thought it lasted all game.

Would you have played it?

Can you think of any plausible town reason to do so?

It hides what you did so you can lie about your cards.  Not town.

[jotheonah]

I couldn't see any reason to play it as town.

[Young Nick]

I couldn't see any reason to play it as town.

I mean, yeah, but it has a more neutral effect when she admits who she played it on and the person then tells us what card they played. She didn't know it would last all game. Also if anything it makes Galzria more scummy because he is free to lie about which card he played.

I don't think it's enough to warrant a vote on her.

[ashersky]

If Rats is the least scummy of Cayvie's cards...well, that looks bad.

[Young Nick]

If Rats is the least scummy of Cayvie's cards...well, that looks bad.

Is that a scumtell, though? It's hard to determine what a card's function is with only knowledge of its name. I mean, I took cards that I thought seemd fun, interesting, or powerful. Whether they turned out that way is another story. I feel like I could have ended up with mostly useless cards or cards that would all put me in a bad light. It's hard to punish someone based on how they drafted, in my opinion.

tl;dr scum-hunt based on in-game actions, not drafting.

[ashersky]

If Rats is the least scummy of Cayvie's cards...well, that looks bad.

Is that a scumtell, though? It's hard to determine what a card's function is with only knowledge of its name. I mean, I took cards that I thought seemd fun, interesting, or powerful. Whether they turned out that way is another story. I feel like I could have ended up with mostly useless cards or cards that would all put me in a bad light. It's hard to punish someone based on how they drafted, in my opinion.

tl;dr scum-hunt based on in-game actions, not drafting.

No, you are right, cards drawn is no tell.  But playing anti-town cards after you draw town as your alignment makes no sense, which is where I think Frisk and I are going with this argument.

[jotheonah]

Vote: cayvie. Sometimes obvious scum is obvious.

[Archetype]

Vote Count 3.1:

cayvie (3) -- Captain_Frisk, ashersky, jotheonah {L-2}

Not Voting (6) -- Morgrim7, Young Nick, Qvist, Robz888, Galzira, cayvie

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 Lynch Deadline is December 6th at 8:30 PM.

[jotheonah]

Here's a (much-needed) topic for discussion: Eevee. He got backed into claiming TR, lamented his likely night kill and begged for protection. He died.

1) are there no doctor cards at all?
2) are the only Dr. Powers JK powers and no one wanted to screw up the TR resolve?
3) what DID Eevee TR anyway?
4) why did scum target a person who seemed like the obvcjoice for protection? Did they use up their strongman kill?

[Galzria]

Another question:

Should I create another IC?

I've got another Town-Aligned result from last night. Obviously my results can't be 100% trusted by town until I die, but that can't be helped.

The problem of course if I don't announce, is that if I'm killed, I take the free IC to my grave. However, announcing paints a target on that players head. Thoughts?

[ashersky]

Another question:

Should I create another IC?

I've got another Town-Aligned result from last night. Obviously my results can't be 100% trusted by town until I die, but that can't be helped.

The problem of course if I don't announce, is that if I'm killed, I take the free IC to my grave. However, announcing paints a target on that players head. Thoughts?

Generally speaking, ICs are good for town.  If you see a need for that, I'd go ahead and confirm.

If we're about to lynch that IC, definitely say something.

[Robz888]

Another question:

Should I create another IC?

I've got another Town-Aligned result from last night. Obviously my results can't be 100% trusted by town until I die, but that can't be helped.

The problem of course if I don't announce, is that if I'm killed, I take the free IC to my grave. However, announcing paints a target on that players head. Thoughts?

I request that you tell us, Galzria.

[Young Nick]

If Rats is the least scummy of Cayvie's cards...well, that looks bad.

Is that a scumtell, though? It's hard to determine what a card's function is with only knowledge of its name. I mean, I took cards that I thought seemd fun, interesting, or powerful. Whether they turned out that way is another story. I feel like I could have ended up with mostly useless cards or cards that would all put me in a bad light. It's hard to punish someone based on how they drafted, in my opinion.

tl;dr scum-hunt based on in-game actions, not drafting.

No, you are right, cards drawn is no tell.  But playing anti-town cards after you draw town as your alignment makes no sense, which is where I think Frisk and I are going with this argument.

I see what you are saying, but what I'm saying is that it seemed like a relatively innocent card at the time. It seems that cayvie thought it would destroy information for one night. She played it and fessed up. Then we let Galzria (it was him, right?) tell us what he had played.

If I were her, I would think that it was basically a card that would have little to no effect on the game, so why not just play it for fun. It doesn't seem like an action that by itself is worthy of a vote, but that's just my opinion.

Another question:

Should I create another IC?

I've got another Town-Aligned result from last night. Obviously my results can't be 100% trusted by town until I die, but that can't be helped.

The problem of course if I don't announce, is that if I'm killed, I take the free IC to my grave. However, announcing paints a target on that players head. Thoughts?

I'd say the IC is good for town, and thus you should reveal.

[Galzria]

Actually the ordering was:

I claimed to have played Sage N1, but that it wasn't in the discard.

Cayvie then came forward saying she could explain that via her playing Rats.

Today, I claimed to have played Band Of Misfits N2, but that once more it wasn't in the trash.

Cayvie then claimed to have gotten clarification on how Rats works, and that my cards are stuck as reporting as Rats for the rest of the game.

[Qvist]

So: 7 cards.  9 players, and presumably 1 card played by eevee.  Should we start claiming?

This idea was abandoned. I think we should claim, because I have something to say which I found confusing.

[Galzria]

As to my second investigation target (N1 was Joth, who's town), I peeked at Robz888 last night, out of curiosity if he would be trying a "D1 lynch your partner" play on Dsell (the lynch didn't happen until D2, but Robz was pushing what felt like a really weak/bad case D1).

Robz is also town.

Of course in both the case of Robz and Joth, they aren't 100% IC's to me, because there's the chance my targets were bussed/switched - however I find that very unlikely. I didn't breadcrumb that I had two Investigative cards in my hand D1, so I could've effectively played anything that night. Scum would've had to guess not only that I was playing that card type, but also which of their members I would be investigating (in order to switch themselves with a townie). It just doesn't seem to be all that likely.

N2 they might have guessed that I would follow up with another investigative role, but again, in order to bus my target effectively they would've needed to guess which of their members I would target - and given Robz push for a Dsell lynch, if he was indeed scum he would likely be the "hidden" one - ie. The one they were least worried about being investigated.

So both nights I find it rather unlikely that my results were compromised. Not impossible of course, but unlikely.