Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Best / Worst card of each age  (Read 7767 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3488
  • Respect: +5474
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Best / Worst card of each age
« on: February 27, 2013, 03:39:52 pm »
+1

You knew this topic was coming sooner or later.  Every card shines sometimes, but some shine more often, and more brightly when they do.  Let's try to avoid "but this one time, X is bad and Y is good!" arguments, and focus on general situations.  Sometimes Feudalism is the key to victory.  Much more often, it's not.

What this list really is is "Overall, cards you'd most like to draw instead of your opponent drawing them" (and conversely, "Cards you care least about drawing"). 

Assume a two-player game.

You can see a full card list here: http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/67894/innovation-official-faq-and-cards-list

Age 1
Best: Mysticism.  A Metalworking that nabs Monument is probably the real winner here, but otherwise I think Mysticism has the best long-term potential once the lower Ages are cleared out.  Not even late age cards can beat draw/meld/draw.  But this is a very tight race -- Domestication, Sailing, The Wheel, etc. are all fine choices.
Worst: Oars

Age 2
Best: Mathematics.  Overrated but still a lovely techer / game ender.  Fermenting is close behind.
Worst: Currency.  Not really that much better than Pottery/Agriculture, hard to set up, and basically a way worse version of Lighting.

Age 3
Best: Machinery. 
Worst: Feudalism.

Age 4
Best: Gunpowder.  Can be a total dud if it comes out too late, but if you get to it early via Paper or Mathematics it can really obliterate your opponent.  Second place is likely Printing Press, for that 1/5 chance of PPing into another purple card.
Worst: Colonialism.  It works out to roughly "tuck a card and a half" on average, I think.  Hard to rely on, and unlike Industrialization, doesn't snowball or splay.

Age 5
Best: Chemistry, though occasionally Pirate Code can run away with scoring.
Worst: Statistics, probably. None of them really stand out. 

Age 6
Best: Industrialization.  In any other age Vaccination would be here.
Worst: Encyclopedia.  Useful a lot more often than Translation, but still rarely useful.

Age 7
Best: Bicycle, maybe Lighting?  Bicycle has more big-play potential, while Lighting is almost always good.
Worst: Refrigeration. 

Age 8
Best: Another all-star age.  You could argue for Rocketry, Quantum Theory, Mass Media, Mobility, Empiricism, or Skyscrapers, and I think they'd all be legitimate contenders.
Worst: Socialism.  It's just so ... boring compared to its compatriots.

Age 9
Best: Satellites.  Meld/execute is so ridiculously overpowered that sometimes I deliberately Satellites my hand just so I can meld/execute instead of meld.  Computers, if you're behind.
Worst: Unclear.  Fission?  Suburbia? 

Age 10
I'm not sure this is meaningful, since the 10's are so stupidly strong that it really depends on your game situation.  In general though I find The Internet to be the most scary.
Logged

timchen

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Shuffle iT Username: allfail
  • Respect: +219
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 04:02:01 pm »
0

Chemistry is just so bad when u mathematics directly into it!
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2269
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +3682
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 04:22:39 pm »
+4

In general though I find The Internet to be the most scary.

This is true in any possible meaning.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3488
  • Respect: +5474
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 04:29:01 pm »
0

Chemistry is just so bad when u mathematics directly into it!

No, that special anger is reserved for Translation/Alchemy.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4992
  • Respect: +2518
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 04:51:19 pm »
+2


Age 1
Best: Mysticism. 
Worst: Oars
Agree on Oars.  Not convinced about Mysticism.  It's a house when all the 1's are emptied, but that's not always the case.  Clothing seems like a stronger card to me, it forces your opponent to meld cards they wouldn't have otherwise melded.  And as a long term plan I prefer to have the leaves for Fermenting, Machinery, and Reformation over the liability of towers.
Quote
Age 2
Best: Mathematics.  Overrated but still a lovely techer / game ender.  Fermenting is close behind.
Worst: Currency.  Not really that much better than Pottery/Agriculture, hard to set up, and basically a way worse version of Lighting.
Disagree on the worst, I think Canal Building is worse then Currency.  They have pretty similar score potentials, but Currency can achieve Monument, and Canal Building can't.
Quote
Age 3
Best: Machinery. 
Worst: Feudalism.
Machinery is nuts.  You read it and you get to "score a card from your hand with a tower" and you're like, surely there will be no more text on this card.  But wait, there's more.
Quote
Age 4
Best: Gunpowder.  Can be a total dud if it comes out too late, but if you get to it early via Paper or Mathematics it can really obliterate your opponent.  Second place is likely Printing Press, for that 1/5 chance of PPing into another purple card.
Worst: Colonialism.  It works out to roughly "tuck a card and a half" on average, I think.  Hard to rely on, and unlike Industrialization, doesn't snowball or splay.
I think Navigation might have to be the worst, simply because Colonialism blocks Gunpowder.  Colonialism does get a good bit better with some card counting. 
For the record, it tucks more than a card and a half on average, 50% of age 3 cards have a crown, so it tucks 2 or more cards 50% of the time, so the average is 1.5 + however much the 3 tuck and 4 tuck pull up that average.
It doesn't really matter what the average is though, because the tucking effect is weak enough that it needs to be used in conjunction with card counting, you need to know that a large number of remaining 3's have a crown, or know that there's a 50% chance the remaining 3 is of a color you have splayed containing the icon you need, or whatnot.
Quote
Age 5
Best: Chemistry, though occasionally Pirate Code can run away with scoring.
Worst: Statistics, probably. None of them really stand out. 
I think I like Astronomy better than Chemistry just because I want to get out of Age 5, not because Astronomy is that great of a techup card, it's ok. 
Chemistry is conditional, so in a discussion of average case scenarios I think it doesn't quite have alpha status.
Quote
Age 6
Best: Industrialization.  In any other age Vaccination would be here.
Worst: Encyclopedia.  Useful a lot more often than Translation, but still rarely useful.
Translation is way more useful than Encyclopedia.. it achieves World dude..
Quote
Age 7
Best: Bicycle, maybe Lighting?  Bicycle has more big-play potential, while Lighting is almost always good.
Worst: Refrigeration. 
I think your uncertainty is misplayed here, Lighting is less situational than Bicycle, but not that much less situational, the cards in your hand don't always have different values.
Quote
Age 8
Best: Another all-star age.  You could argue for Rocketry, Quantum Theory, Mass Media, Mobility, Empiricism, or Skyscrapers, and I think they'd all be legitimate contenders.
Worst: Socialism.  It's just so ... boring compared to its compatriots.
I feel like it's Mobility, because it's strong against a variety of strategies and situations.  It doesn't matter if your opponent is threatening to win next turn or just trying to tech up to 10 or what, Mobility will score you points and make your opponent less eligible for achievements and less able to do things.
Quote
Age 9
Best: Satellites.  Meld/execute is so ridiculously overpowered that sometimes I deliberately Satellites my hand just so I can meld/execute instead of meld.  Computers, if you're behind.
Worst: Unclear.  Fission?  Suburbia? 
Definitely Fission.  I think I've yet to win a game after a successful nuke.  I postulate that "going first", that is, having one action remaining going into that empty board state, is worse than "going second" in post-apocalyptic Innovation.
Oh, and Satellites, yeah, it's pretty silly.  The only Meld/Execute card that gives you choices, non?
Quote
Age 10
I'm not sure this is meaningful, since the 10's are so stupidly strong that it really depends on your game situation.  In general though I find The Internet to be the most scary.
But Miniaturization is so weak, how could you not mention it?  All it does is let you end games on score, if you can burn 3 actions and still have score advantage.  Flipping Agriculture does a better job of that.  There's never ever enough time left in the game to use the bazillion drawn tens, so it's a very one trick pony.

Someone has not used Education on two 8's only to draw Miniaturization.  Let me tell you, it is depressing.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3488
  • Respect: +5474
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 05:37:01 pm »
0

Maybe it makes more sense to organize these in tier lists.  For example, I think age 1 would look like:

God Tier
Mysticism
Metalworking
The Wheel
Sailing

High Tier
Domestication
Clothing
Tools
Code of Laws
Pottery
Agriculture

Mid Tier
City States
Archery
Masonry

Low Tier
Writing
Oars
Logged

eyhung

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 05:49:55 pm »
0

I disagree with some of your picks:

Mysticism is not even close to one of my favorite Age 1 cards.  Obviously it has one of the most powerful dogma effects.  However, it has bad symbols (towers become obsolete quickly).  Also, the timing is bad.  At the very beginning, Sailing is clearly better.  It becomes better when Age 1 is nearly done and you have 4-5 piles, but by that point I'm looking for even stronger cards such as Math or Paper to tech out of the early age cards that Mysticism draws.  I much prefer Sailing (good long-term symbols and conservation of actions) to start, and Metalworking for potentially efficient big scoring.

Age 2, I don't think Currency is that bad, it can be quite useful in late game for a big score.  I think Monotheism is far worse, again because of the crappy symbols, and because it requires you to have an empty pile to take full advantage of it.  I'd rather have 5 piles. 

Age 3 is all about planning around Machinery, but an honorable mention has to go to Paper; splaying, teching, and drawing is good.

For Age 4, even though Gunpowder is the card to plan around, the card I'm happiest to get is Reformation.  Splaying two colors right, tucking all the useless crap you've accumulated, and giving you a lead in leaves is really important.  I think the worst Age 4 is Invention.  Navigation at least has 3 crowns and doesn't have any side effects. 

Age 5 best is Pirate Code, that's the card lets someone leverage crown advantage into score. 
In almost every 2p game someone has crown advantage, so it's important to get or, if you're behind, to deny to your opponent. 
Logged

popsofctown

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4992
  • Respect: +2518
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 07:45:42 pm »
0

It's not enough to say that someone has crown advantage though.  Pirate code degrades your own crown advantage.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

marco2012

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 01:02:13 am »
+2


Age 1
Best: Mysticism. 
Worst: Oars
Agree on Oars.  Not convinced about Mysticism.  It's a house when all the 1's are emptied, but that's not always the case.  Clothing seems like a stronger card to me, it forces your opponent to meld cards they wouldn't have otherwise melded.  And as a long term plan I prefer to have the leaves for Fermenting, Machinery, and Reformation over the liability of towers.

Oars is good when opponent is using Domestication, which is about equal to sailing at age 1.
Mysticism is only good when you meld all 5 colours. And you will not use Mysticism at turn 1

Quote
Quote
Age 2
Best: Mathematics.  Overrated but still a lovely techer / game ender.  Fermenting is close behind.
Worst: Currency.  Not really that much better than Pottery/Agriculture, hard to set up, and basically a way worse version of Lighting.
Disagree on the worst, I think Canal Building is worse then Currency.  They have pretty similar score potentials, but Currency can achieve Monument, and Canal Building can't.
Currency is crazy at age 5/6 when you have 3 different age cards in your hand.
Even monotheism is great if it comes early. Bombing your opponent's board while tucking cards.
Age 2 cards are quite useful.
Quote
Quote
Age 3
Best: Machinery. 
Worst: Feudalism.
Machinery is nuts.  You read it and you get to "score a card from your hand with a tower" and you're like, surely there will be no more text on this card.  But wait, there's more.
Age 3 cards are quite disruptive. Loads of attacks that can help you against tech-aheader. Agree about Feudalism that it is weak. But for the best cards, optics/compass can stand a chance
Quote
Quote
Age 4
Best: Gunpowder.  Can be a total dud if it comes out too late, but if you get to it early via Paper or Mathematics it can really obliterate your opponent.  Second place is likely Printing Press, for that 1/5 chance of PPing into another purple card.
Worst: Colonialism.  It works out to roughly "tuck a card and a half" on average, I think.  Hard to rely on, and unlike Industrialization, doesn't snowball or splay.
I think Navigation might have to be the worst, simply because Colonialism blocks Gunpowder.  Colonialism does get a good bit better with some card counting. 
For the record, it tucks more than a card and a half on average, 50% of age 3 cards have a crown, so it tucks 2 or more cards 50% of the time, so the average is 1.5 + however much the 3 tuck and 4 tuck pull up that average.
It doesn't really matter what the average is though, because the tucking effect is weak enough that it needs to be used in conjunction with card counting, you need to know that a large number of remaining 3's have a crown, or know that there's a 50% chance the remaining 3 is of a color you have splayed containing the icon you need, or whatnot.
Gunpowder are not that strong if your opponent knows how to avoid/counterattack Gunpowder.
Experiment, Printing Press, Enterprise are stronger in my view.
Quote
Quote
Age 5
Best: Chemistry, though occasionally Pirate Code can run away with scoring.
Worst: Statistics, probably. None of them really stand out. 
I think I like Astronomy better than Chemistry just because I want to get out of Age 5, not because Astronomy is that great of a techup card, it's ok. 
Chemistry is conditional, so in a discussion of average case scenarios I think it doesn't quite have alpha status.
I love Coal and Steam Engine. They are good scorer at that age.
Astronomy is great too.

Quote
Age 6
Best: Industrialization.  In any other age Vaccination would be here.
Worst: Encyclopedia.  Useful a lot more often than Translation, but still rarely useful.
Translation is way more useful than Encyclopedia.. it achieves World dude..
[/quote]
Encyclopedia is good with canal building/democracy.
Quote
Quote
Age 7
Best: Bicycle, maybe Lighting?  Bicycle has more big-play potential, while Lighting is almost always good.
Worst: Refrigeration. 
I think your uncertainty is misplayed here, Lighting is less situational than Bicycle, but not that much less situational, the cards in your hand don't always have different values.
Age 7 cards are very strange. It is, generally, harder to tech up at age 7.Lighting is useful because you can score loads of points, and go to age 8 faster by using all age 7 cards.
Agree about Refrigeration
Quote
Quote
Age 8
Best: Another all-star age.  You could argue for Rocketry, Quantum Theory, Mass Media, Mobility, Empiricism, or Skyscrapers, and I think they'd all be legitimate contenders.
Worst: Socialism.  It's just so ... boring compared to its compatriots.
I feel like it's Mobility, because it's strong against a variety of strategies and situations.  It doesn't matter if your opponent is threatening to win next turn or just trying to tech up to 10 or what, Mobility will score you points and make your opponent less eligible for achievements and less able to do things.
Quote
Age 9
Best: Satellites.  Meld/execute is so ridiculously overpowered that sometimes I deliberately Satellites my hand just so I can meld/execute instead of meld.  Computers, if you're behind.
Worst: Unclear.  Fission?  Suburbia? 
Definitely Fission.  I think I've yet to win a game after a successful nuke.  I postulate that "going first", that is, having one action remaining going into that empty board state, is worse than "going second" in post-apocalyptic Innovation.
Oh, and Satellites, yeah, it's pretty silly.  The only Meld/Execute card that gives you choices, non?
Quote
Age 10
I'm not sure this is meaningful, since the 10's are so stupidly strong that it really depends on your game situation.  In general though I find The Internet to be the most scary.
But Miniaturization is so weak, how could you not mention it?  All it does is let you end games on score, if you can burn 3 actions and still have score advantage.  Flipping Agriculture does a better job of that.  There's never ever enough time left in the game to use the bazillion drawn tens, so it's a very one trick pony.

Someone has not used Education on two 8's only to draw Miniaturization.  Let me tell you, it is depressing.
[/quote]
No comment at age 8-10 cards yet
Logged

BitTorrent

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
  • Respect: +57
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 02:11:30 am »
+2

For me,
Base Only:

Age 1
top picks: Clothing/The Wheel/Sailing (basically anything green)
I see ppl yelling at me when they have a green card to start with and being parried by my icon techniques...do you know how tough it is to withstand the GREEN MONSTERS in age 1.

Age 2
top pick: Road Building
What can be even more dreadful than stealing the satellite from my opponent and win the game from nowhere, and once you have it, even you may not be able to use it, at least you don't have to worry about it.

Age 3
top pick: Optics
Alchemy and Paper moves you up to age 4, Education jumps you to age 6, Machinery get rid of your opponent from saving massive hand, Engineering and Compass handles Fermenting, while Optics sets them up all. And, once age 3 cards are up, you can use it to access cards in age 4 and possibly 5 too.

Age 4
top pick: Reformation
One of the funny fact is that splaying right on yellow cards give similar amount of icons as splaying them up, Which means that usually splaying yellow cards to right is good enough. Purple cards shows similar behavior too although the gain from splaying up is a bit better than yellow. Yea you may link to cards like Enterprise when you are talking about icon mechanics but Enterprise do have a drawback of giving a draw and meld a 4 to your opponent which is not something desirable for you.

Age 5
top picks: Coal/Astros
Coal is always one of the most weird card in the game no matter what. The possibility of 'digging' a covered card from your board simply generates a lot more options for you. Plus a scorer. Plus a solid red splayer. Plus a set of solid pure factory icons which would usually buy you the lead. Plus tucking effect. ALL OF THEM in ONE card. Astros to me, is often another factory solution which allows you to start a search for Industrialization before your opponents do.

Age 6
top picks: Canning/Industrialization
Canning gives you scores. Industrialization gives you the depth for another go on Canning. The bottom line is: you need not to have them together in order to make them work.

Age 7
top picks: Lighting/Evolution
Yea Lighting and possibly Bicycle can generate massive scores for you in an instant but think of this: did you ever wonder how to you score enough points when you only have a massive bulb lead but nothing else, say you don't wanna share other scoring effects to your opponents? Yes, bulb scorer. there are only a few of them, but if you did missed this one, you will have to wait until age 9.

Age 8
top picks: Quantum Theory/Empi
age 8 cards are very strong in terms of effects, but in other words, a very risky age to stay with. Say if you don't work fast here, your opponent may suddenly sneak you with Skyscrapers or Mobility or even a shared Mass Media. In most cases, I rather leave for age 9 or age 10 to seal the game, unless I know I can win with Empi then I will get the job done with it.

Age 9
top picks: Satellites/Computers
Depends on rather you want to move up, or lay low. Both seal games. Real.

Age 10
you don't need a top pick here but if I must talk about it then it will be Bioengineering, in your hands or score pile. As long as you know it is in your hand, you won't backfire yourself when you are going Software or Robotics. You can use it to destroy your opponent, too.

As usual, I seldom regard a card as worst or bad pick or filter card. Every card serves somewhere.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 02:14:15 am by BitTorrent »
Logged

Hideyoshi

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +34
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 05:00:00 am »
+2

Here are just some my choices for the best and worst pick, but it really depends on situation. (Base only)

Age 1
Best: Clothing/Sailing/Domestication
Worst: Tools
Melding more cards is usually the most important and useful action at the start of the game. Among these, three, clothing may be somehow better as you will score cards at the same time. It is interesting when your opponent does not stop you from clothing, you still use clothing at age 6. Mysticism is somehow a mid tier to me, even worse than oars, as it usually do not give help to you if there is no at least 4 top cards on your board.
I see many players like to use tools as the starter, but I seldom use it. The impractical of light bulbs in age 1, the danger of a castle, the instability of rising to age 3 without enough icons and score supporting make me to choose tools as the worst choice.

Age 2
Best: Mathematics/Road Building
Worst: Canal Building/Monotheism
Mathematics is generally useful, compared to other cards more dependent to the situation. Road building is my second choice for its sudden attack by stealing opponent’s green cards. It is also funny when you give a useless oars/archery to your opponent by covering his good red card.
Canal building is actually very useful when using paper/the wheel or other cards by drawing a lot of high age cards and exchange them in early stage, but in most other situation, it does not help much. Monotheism is the second worst as it becomes completely useless when you have five top cards, and the existence of castle makes it is dangerous against gunpowder and engineering.

Age 3
Best: Too many good cards… maybe paper/optics
Worst: Feudalism
I do not see there is any special cards in age 3 stand out, as most of them are very useful in the game, but most of them are also dependent to the situation. Paper and optics, or even alchemy may be my best cards. Among 10 of them, feudalism is usually considered as the worst card. It may be stronger if you use feudalism with paper as spraying all colors left.

Age 4
Best: Experiment/Enterprise
Worst: Perspective/Invention
Experiment is the most simple, but also the most powerful card in age 4. For me, age 4 is actually really tricky as most of the cards are dependent on your or your opponent’s situation. Gunpowder needs castles, navigation needs score 2 and 3, invention need your cards sprayed left, and printing press need a high age purple card. If your situation fit the cards, it will be very useful; otherwise, they may be completely useless. Experiment is the most simple way to jumping out from this tricky age 4. Enterprise is also a good card as it can start the monopoly of the crowns with your opponent.
Perspective is somehow the worst card in age 4 as it needs a lot of cards in your hand. Unless you get the help of paper, perspective cannot help much in most cases. Invention is another worst pick for me, as, for me, spraying left is considered as unnecessary in the starting, except using paper. Thus invention mostly cannot contribute to the game. However, the present of factory in invention is very important, and by the same reason, colonialism is very useful for its icons.

Age 5
Best: Coal
Worst: Societies
I can say, coal is the easiest way to gain enough score to claim the first five achievements. At the same time, it is notable that you can get new top cards, even age 6 as top cards. Except coal, there are also many good cards in age 5, such as private code, chemistry and astronomy. And I like banking too, as it is the easiest way to beat your opponents by using coal.
Societies is considered as the worst card for me. One of the problems of societies is the location of the hexagon, makes it not efficient by spraying right or up. The other problem is transferring a light bulb is usually not as useful as other icons at age 5.

Age 6
Best: Canning/Atomic Theory
Worst: Encyclopedia/Emancipation
Canning is similar to the coal, it may score more cards but not controllable. It is also a good card to spray yellow cards right by factory but not leaf. Atomic theory serves similar to experiment but also spraying blue cards right. Compared to vaccination, I see atomic theory is a better choice by not giving the opponents melding a 6. It is interesting that it is not really matter by melding a blue 7 by atomic theory, as publication and evolution are both good cards, but it is sad when you meld a refrigeration or sanitation by vaccination!
Encyclopedia is very useful with democracy or you have good highest cards in score pile, but it commonly serves only three crowns icon as your blue top card in most cases. Emancipation seems not to be mentioned by anyone, but it makes me annoying when my opponents have a lot of 1 and 2 in their hand in most situations.

Age 7
Best: Combustion, and still many good cards…
Worst: Refrigeration
Combustion is a very simple card. When I have more crowns than others, combustion is a simple way to get all score from others. Lightning, evolution, publication is also good cards for me. I like publication much, as it is the first and the only spraying up method at age 7. (not counting railroad, as it needs the color spraying right)
Refrigeration is powerful, and even dreadful with the combination with evolution, but it really makes me annoying with its silly demanding dogma.

Age 8
Best: Skyscrapers/Mobility
Worst: Socialism/Antibiotics/Flight
Age 8 is a funny age. I can just consider there are 7 high tiers and 3 low tiers, but no mid tiers. Among these 7 cards, I like skyscrapers most by returning all cards from others board. It is also a good idea to use mobility to sneak all others top cards.
Socialism is a good card to help you to claim to achieve Monument, but I think it is even weaker than reformation at age 4. Antibiotics is useful for its three leaf icons. However, it is notable that the movement of game becomes faster starting from age 8, it is not very helpful by drawing six age 8 cards, unless you want to use bicycle or lightning. Flight seems to be similar to metric system, but I do not think flight is helpful as metric system. Flight has a clock on it, making it is dangerous against skyscrapers. The other problem is it do not have any factory on the card, making you will easily lose the advantages of the lead of the factory.

Age 9
Best: Genetics
Worst: Services
Compared to computers, I like genetics more, as it can score a lot of cards at the same time, and it can prevent some accidents by computers. (such as losing by AI or bioengineering) I don’t like services, as its feedback is generally dangerous in normal play unless you really get a lot of leaves or you really get nothing good on your board.

Age 10
No comment, everything will happen in age 10. If you think that no one can get enough achievements to win the game, the most suitable thing you need to do may be score more as much as possible, or pla
Logged

ksasaki

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 163
  • Respect: +33
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2013, 11:35:33 am »
0

Maybe it makes more sense to organize these in tier lists.  For example, I think age 1 would look like:

God Tier
Mysticism
Metalworking
The Wheel
Sailing

High Tier
Domestication
Clothing
Tools
Code of Laws
Pottery
Agriculture

Mid Tier
City States
Archery
Masonry

Low Tier
Writing
Oars

I'd argue domestication is better than Sailing or Mysticism, you have more control of what you meld and not cover up the thing using it (sailing or mysticism).   Code of Laws is not great in base but in echoes it is pretty godlike if you can get one of the "big four" flute chopsticks umbrella or ruler.

City states is pretty awesome because it can steal most of those three castle "god" cards.

Pottery is also in the "god" tier.  A viable strategy is just to continue using pottery through the ages, and just score it up and achieve 1,2,3,4.  When you need to progress the ages just share something like oars.

Metalworking I don't think is "god" tier.  Yes you can get some nice combos and maybe even monument, but really it's useless in age 4 and a liability later on (doesn't provide any useful symbols later on either).  With pottery you can just keep using and using it, and it just keeps getting better (return a 4 score a 4 draw a 4 anyone?).

In base, having a scoring engine is critical (with echoes, there are just too many cards to slog through).  In echoes I feel like the most important thing is to get a stack with some crazy echoes going, then you are literally being more efficient that your opponent.  Draw a 2, foreshadow a 4 and a 5, then execute your top blue card, twice in a single turn?  Yes I'd say that makes pottery look silly.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2663
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3130
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2013, 12:44:53 pm »
+1

Maybe it makes more sense to organize these in tier lists.  For example, I think age 1 would look like:

God Tier
Mysticism

 ::)

(Not disagreeing, just saying)
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1083
  • Respect: +722
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 11:20:43 am »
0

For the 2nd age, my personnal favourite is calendar. Sometimes useless, but most often absolutely amazing.
Paper for the 3rd age.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 11:22:41 am by brokoli »
Logged

hoff

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
    • Google+ profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 06:48:03 am »
+1

Here are my votes, noting my differences with theory in bold. Disclaimer: in 2p my strategy has been emphasize tech and icon dominance over scoring and achievements so I can win in whatever way I please in era 8-10. I'm not sure if this is really as good a strategy as I think it is; theory suggested otherwise in another thread. But as such I think the early cards that focus on the score pile are the least powerful—while my opponent is claiming achievements 1, 2, and 3, I'm splaying all my piles right and drawing Factories and Clocks.

Age 1
Best: Mysticism. However, in my starting hand, I would rather have Domestication, Sailing, The Wheel, in that order. Domestication gets the edge because it gives you control over what you meld. But once I'm getting my third or fourth age 1 card, Mysticism is the best. Honorable mention to Agriculture, which becomes by far the most powerful 1 in later ages and can score a lot of points quickly.
Worst: Oars.

Age 2
Best: Mathematics. As long as you're careful not to fall too far behind in key icons and get obliterated, you can get way ahead with this guy. Return a 2, draw and meld a 3. Draw a 3. Return a 3, draw and meld a 4. Draw a 4. You'll be building factories while your opponent is still banging rocks together.
Worst: Currency. Scoring 2 or 4 points at the cost of 1 or 2 cards is not going to get you far. c.f. Agriculture.
Second worst: Canal Building: almost always useless when you're in age 2 but occasionally, if it's still showing in a later age, it randomly does something amazing for you (in either direction).
Third worst: Mapmaking: they may not have a 1 in their score pile, and even if they do, taking their 1 and then scoring a 1, for a net change of just three points, just doesn't seem worth a valuable action.

Age 3
Best: Machinery. So overpowered. It profoundly limits your opponent's second action: they simply can't end their turn with a high card, or several small cards, in their hand, or you will turn the crank on them.
Worst: Feudalism. Medicine. As with Canal Building, this is too early for this effect. Trading a 1 or 2 in your score pile for a 3 or 4 in theirs is rarely worth an action, and you can usually only do it once or twice. Feudalism at least sets up a splay or two to cement your castle lead, and a good portion of the time it will also nab a free card out of their hand.

Age 4
Best: Gunpowder can sometimes blow the game wide open, so I can agree with that pick. Second place is Printing Press Experimentation—draw and meld a 5 is random, but it's going to be very good for you no matter what happens. Next I rank Reformation, which sometimes gives you a tremendous lead on icons. I put Printing Press 4th—it's just a little hard to set up. You really need a purple 4+ to make it worthwhile, or else this is a really bad Experimentation. And you have to have a card in your score pile that you're willing to part with. You might need those cards, or you may not have bothered to score a single card by this point. Anatomy can be even more devastating than Gunpowder—in a good number of the games I draw Anatomy, I am able to obliterate my opponent's board and score pile—but it isn't quite consistent enough—my opponent's score pile doesn't always line up with their top cards, or sometimes they Metalworking'd themselves plenty of chump blockers.
Worst: Colonialism's tuck dogma is too small to be worth an action, but its icons (Factory, Factory, Lightbulb) can be a quite valuable upgrade to your red pile once Castles have been eclipsed. So I actually think Perspective is the worst 4. You need four Lightbulbs in play and must spend three cards in your hand just to score two of them—ain't nobody got time for that! Agriculture would give you more points for less work. And the purple yellow that you'd cover with Perspective was probably more useful than the red card that you'd cover with Colonialism.

Age 5
Best: Chemistry can rapidly promote your score pile to all 6s, and it splays your blue cards right, and which often reveals valuable Lightbulbs. But Coal splays your red cards right, which often reveals valuable Factories, and tucks a 5, and has an optional ability to score two cards (also possibly exposing a 3rd-from-the-top card, possibly even one tucked by Coal). So I give Coal the edge over Chemistry. But it's very close. For a player who already has some points and achievements, either card's scoring potential can quickly put the game away.
Not the best:
Astronomy's ability seems powerful but it's hit-or-miss and sometimes randomly covers a card you wanted. Measurement probably has the highest potential for a single execution—splaying your giant pile right and drawing you a 7 or higher—but that situation presents itself less than half the time.
Worst: Statistics, probably definitely. Splaying a color right is often great, but making them draw a card from their score pile might even help them. Societies is rarely useful—they usually don't have a non-purple top card with a lightbulb that's better than your top card of that color—and giving them a replacement draw of a 5 is quite a cost, but sometimes it can ruin them by giving you their best card (possibly the only 6 on the board).

Age 6
Best: Industrialization. If you have a Factory lead and a score lead (or a way to grab the score lead), you can just tuck the entire 6-10 decks under your piles and snowball your way to victory. Being able to splay two different colors right really puts this card over the top. Even if you don't start with the Factory lead, if board conditions are right, it may only take the first activation for you to regain it. Even if you don't ride Industrialization through the 10s, you will have a lot of icons to work with. And if you're going for achievements, this will get you Monument. Second best is Vaccination, which can wreck a score pile, sometimes in just one or two activations, but the meld effects are random and might do more harm than good. Atomic Theory is solid but feels downright fair compared to Industrialization.
Worst: Encyclopedia. The highest cards in your score pile often won't be useful, and even if they are, it's usually not worth going backwards in score just to meld them. Metric System is the second worst. All it does is splay a pile right, which makes it much worse than other 6's that splay right and do something else. On the plus side, splaying any color right is versatile: it may let you get a key icon at a key moment and it can easily get you to the Wonder achievement.

Age 7
Best: Lighting. Sometimes Bicycle will get you from 0 points to 30 or more in one fell swoop, but even in the best situations for Bicycle, Lightning will usually score you 14-21 while developing your icons, which seems like the stronger play to me most of the time. And in some cases, when your hand and your score pile are both a motley assortment of random cards, Bicycle may do very little.
Worst: Refrigeration. They return half rounded down, so they can always keep the one important card in their hand. And scoring one card from your hand at a time is too slow for Age 7 (c.f. Lightning and Bicycle). Railroad is awfully limited in use—you don't want to trade your hand for three 6's in age 7, but sometimes the 6 or even 7 pile is empty, and drawing some 7s and 8s is pretty good, and sometimes you do have a splay-right that's worth turning to a splay-up.

Age 8
Best: Mobility. I agree with popsofctown—it is exceedingly rare that removing your opponent's two highest (non-red) top cards does not mess with their plans, and you also are nabbing those ~13 points per activation! Often you will want to activate this effect multiple times, either to win on points or achievements, remove an opponent's top card with a threatening ability, or just to stay ahead on icons.
I put Skyscrapers at second. It can often be a wrecking ball, absolutely devastating your opponent's board and advancing yours. Unless the one card you score them hands them the game, it will be hard for them to win after a successful Skyscrapers activation.
Next I put Mass Media—you can often decimate your opponent's score pile with just one activation, meanwhile splaying purple up.
Not the best:
Quantum Theory jumps you to 10, which is nice, but it requires two cards in hand and doesn't have any immediate impact on your icons or your opponent, which means it is sometimes too slow.
Rocketry: there will be times where it is one of the few cards that will stop your opponent from claiming the last achievement they need, and three clocks are nice, but there will be times that this card doesn't affect the board and so doesn't keep your opponent from winning some other way. And if this is your only source of clocks, it only removes one card per activation, which may even be too slow to counter your opponent's scoring engine.
Empiricism: hit-or-miss. It's occasionally a victory condition, and if you get lucky it can hugely develop your board in both top card age and splay.
Worst: Socialism. Antibiotics is even worse. The only thing this 8 does is turn up to three other cards in your hand (possibly 8's) into more, different, better 8's. c.f. Quantum Theory, which converts two cards in your hand to a 10 in your hand and a 10 in your score pile, almost always a better position for you.

Age 9
Best: Satellites barely gets the edge over Computers. Sure, the 8 won't be as powerful as the 10, but choosing from three 8's gives you a much higher chance of doing something that actually helps you. The 8's are plenty strong—see above. Meanwhile activating a random 10 might just lose you the game.
Worst: Fission is pretty lose-lose—they will get to meld a card before you after the apocalypse. And Services is only a so-so score-pile-attacker, and actually un-develops your board. But actually, I have never seen anyone even try to use Collaboration: drawing and melding a single card is not a very powerful effect for a 9—c.f. Sailing!—even when you get to choose from two 9's, and adding a free 9 to your opponent's board is quite a cost for this privilege. (You can dream of covering their best card with some "bad" 9 while nabbing a "good" 9 for yourself, but this is extremely unlikely.)

Age 10
It seems like you have to evaluate the 10s separately, based on whether you are meld-and-executing them involuntarily or not. :-) I went ahead and ranked them from best to worst:

Best:
1. Software: Want to run the 10 pile ASAP? Look no further! This card does it all—it improves your score and your board, and then does something crazy. Sure, it might make you randomly lose, but it makes it much more likely that you're going to win.
2. The Internet: Software without the auto-executing, making it slower but safer. Splaying green up may not benefit you before the game ends, but it might let you claim a special achievement or let you win by icons in some way.

Good:
3. Bioengineering: I find this is an easy way to win if I have icon/splay superiority. And scoring one of their top cards is a pretty strong effect even if you don't win the game.
4. Globalization: The first two parts of this card are almost identical to Bioengineering, but obviously the victory condition is reversed and tangential. Another reasonably quick way to win.
5. Robotics: A much worse Software. Instead of scoring a free 10 and developing your board, you score your top green card. Still, you may get lucky with the draw-and-execute-without-sharing.
6. Self Service: A nice victory condition that can never backfire (unlike other 10s that can let any player win the game, this one can only let the dogma-executor win). The fact that you don't have to share the dogma that you choose to execute can be a powerful loophole if you are behind on icons.
7. Stem Cells: It doesn't say "win the game," and it does require that you still have a considerable hand (so if you got here via Satellites, you may be out of luck), but this single card can turn around a game fast, getting you points to claim the last achievements or just win when the 10s run out. However, most of the time, you'd rather just score a fresh 10 and develop your board, or attack your opponent's board and score a card, like the first four 10's in my list do.

Bad:
8. Databases: This is a big effect, but in most late-game scoring situations, it's just not big enough, especially since they get to pick which half of their score pile gets returned. Consider that, while you're doing Databases, your opponent is likely 1) scoring a 10 or multiple cards per action, or even worse, 2) winning the game on the dogma of some 9 or 10.
9. A.I. All it does is score you 10 points, which may or may not help you win the game, and then there's a small chance that it actually loses you the game instead. c.f. Software and The Internet, which also score you a ten and actually improve your board (and don't lose you the game). And if you're trying to win with A.I. deliberately, because you're more than 10 points behind, well it probably won't work because Software or Robotics will probably be stuck in a score pile or hand or in the deck.
10. Miniaturization: This can never affect the board or score piles in any way. It requires a second 10 in your hand, and all it does is draw you more 10s. As with Socialism in age 8, wouldn't you rather have just drawn one of those other, better 10s in the first place?

Edit: Perspective is yellow, not purple. Thanks eyhung.
Edit: Fleshed a few entries out a bit.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 10:27:28 pm by hoff »
Logged

eyhung

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2013, 01:55:12 pm »
0

Mostly agree with your commentary, hoff, but Perspective is a yellow card, not a purple. 
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3488
  • Respect: +5474
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2013, 02:50:41 pm »
+1

Here are my votes, noting my differences with theory in bold. Disclaimer: in 2p my strategy has been emphasize tech and icon dominance over scoring and achievements so I can win in whatever way I please in era 8-10. I'm not sure if this is really as good a strategy as I think it is; theory suggested otherwise in another thread. But as such I think the early cards that focus on the score pile are the least powerful—while my opponent is claiming achievements 1, 2, and 3, I'm splaying all my piles right and drawing Factories and Clocks.

Tech is the easiest thing to catch up on.  Score is the most difficult.  Metalworking / Pottery can get you to 30 points easily (25 if you got Monument along the way). 

This is incidentally why Mapmaking is so good.  Against a Metalworked score pile, it is basically like Gunpowder.
Logged

greatexpectations

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1095
  • Respect: +1055
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2013, 07:32:24 pm »
+1

it would be neat to see a best/worst openings sort of list for some of these cards.
Logged
momomoto: ...I looked at the tableau and went "Mountebank? That's for jerks."
rrenaud: Jerks win.

popsofctown

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4992
  • Respect: +2518
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2013, 07:59:36 pm »
0

Oh, really?
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

greatexpectations

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1095
  • Respect: +1055
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2013, 08:32:21 pm »
0

Oh, really?

if this was directed at me, i meant more in the sense of the best/worst openings dominion rankings on councilroom. i realize that you have your turn 0 article which discusses the opening plays.
Logged
momomoto: ...I looked at the tableau and went "Mountebank? That's for jerks."
rrenaud: Jerks win.

popsofctown

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4992
  • Respect: +2518
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 08:45:33 pm »
0

Well, if you mean statistically, I'm also interested, but a councilroom-like structure would be necessary to achieve what you're talking about.

If you mean, based on opinion on the outlook of each possible opening, which is the impression I got since you are posting in an opinion based ranking thread, really I think the openings are going to be so similar to the opening meld choice algorithm that it's not an interesting discussion to have.  Innovation openings are very different from Dominion openings in that if you start with something strong and something weak, you repeatedly use the strong thing over and over again and the weak one doesn't matter all that much.  Whereas in Dominion, you use your new acquisitions equally (as long as they aren't colliding terminals), so you have those interesting relationships like, well Wishing Well is normally a bad opening, but hey it's pretty strong with Ambassador, and all that.
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

hoff

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
    • Google+ profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2013, 10:30:33 pm »
0

So, councilroom-type statistics could answer questions like,
  • Given that a player draws Gunpowder, what % of the time do they meld it?
  • What % of the time does a player who melds Gundpowder win the game?
  • Given that hoff draws Gunpowder, what % of the time does hoff meld it?
  • What % of the time does hoff win the game after melding Gunpowder?
  • What % of the time does hoff win the game after an opponent melds Gunpowder?

But there will never be a way to discuss "openings" in Innovation in the same way as Dominion. In Dominion, there are no big surprises -- there is the board, there is your strategy, and there are small tactical decisions and adjustments along the way. In Innovation, you cannot plan to draw any particular card, so there are extreme limits to strategic planning, and the game is much more tactical. You could maybe discuss certain archtypes, like "score pile rush," "castle beatdown," "lightbulb teching." But it will never be anything as concrete as a Dominion strategy like "Open Silver/Silver, buy one Witch, then Hunting Parties, waiting to get Gold until the curses are nearly gone."
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2074
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 02:10:58 am »
+2

I have nothing to contribute yet, since I still don't even know half the cards, but I just wanted to say I'm happy to see this thread. Seeing people argue about what cards are stronger helps learn how to think about the game in ways I hadn't before. The best/worst $X cards threads on the blog are really what drew me to this site. Keep it up guys! :)
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2074
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 01:46:24 am »
+2

Okay, I’ve now played over 200 games and feel like it’s time to throw my opinions in here:

Best cards:
1: Clothing (at least in 2 player) - It forces your opponent to spend actions melding stuff they don’t really want to meld, and with lucky (or unlucky for you opponent) draws, it can just run away with the game. The Wheel is next. Drawing a lot of cards early helps you find something good to do more than the random melding of the other 2-for-1s.
2: Mathematics
3: Optics - Draw+meld+score and with good icons (in a somewhat off-color). Machinery is strong because you always have to be wary of where it is and if it might hit, but I think you tend to get more actual use out of Optics on your board. Still very close.
4: Gunpowder - This is also a tough one. The purple 4’s are really good for turning a small icon lead into a big one if you get the right one. But Gunpowder feels like it comes up more often. I starts you off on a factory lead and usually can score something and do some damage. Enterprise is a close second, though.
5: Coal - If you have a lead on achievements and score, you can just run away by letting Coal eat your board, and otherwise, it’s a least a lot of factories and a splay, and has the rare ability to dig up covered cards.
6: Industrialization - Sometimes it seems like a bit of a trap since it doesn’t score or meld anything. So you have to be careful not to overdo it. But its ability to give you the lead in any symbol still makes it better than the other 6’s.
7: Evolution - It gives both scoring and tech, and it only requires you have at least 1 card in your score pile. Bicycle and Lighting have stronger requirements for use..
8: Quantum Theory - Really, they’re all good, but I went with Quantum Theory for the 3 clocks. A lot of times melding it is enough to get Empire, and since clocks are just showing up, you’ll usually have the lead on them. With Skyscrapers/Mobility, you need to already have a lead in the appropriate icon to use them.
9: Satellites
10: The Internet - All the 10s are good. So melding more of them is better! And it doesn’t have the risk of killing yourself with a blind execute the way Software does.

Worst cards:
1: Writing - Seems like getting age 2 early isn’t all that great, and then this is totally useless once you’re at age 2. Plus the symbols aren’t even useful. At least Oars has castles, which are good in age 1...
2: Canal Building
3: Feudalism
4: Invention - Really hard to use. There are enough other cards that just straight-up splay right, that this hardly ever seems worth it.
5: Statistics - It’s hard to find a really bad one here, but Statistics seems like the worst. It hits their score, but gives them possibly a useful card in their hand, and if they can score from hand, they can just put it right back. I feel like Banking also struggles, since it lets them score a 5, which is about as good as whatever they were going to do with the card you steal anyway, but Banking has better icons than Statistics.
6: Encyclopedia
7: Refrigeration
8: Socialism - Once again, they’re all good, but something has to be the worst...
9: Services - Maybe the only card I’ve never used...
10: Miniaturization
Logged

timchen

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Shuffle iT Username: allfail
  • Respect: +219
    • View Profile
Re: Best / Worst card of each age
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 02:59:57 am »
+1

Agree with most, except...

Banking! This card is IMO very well designed... because without the D&S, it is probably OP.

This is the card I use the most among the board robbing cards. Splaying green gives you lots of crowns, and robbing factories, well, give you factories. The problem you see is probably that when it appears there are not that many worthy factory cards to rob. But even in age 5 there is Coal, and it usefulness gets better and better later in game.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.12 seconds with 20 queries.