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Author Topic: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)  (Read 5078 times)

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Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« on: November 30, 2012, 12:00:04 pm »

Quote
Through the Ages is a civilization building game. The goal is to develop your civilization, not to destroy other ones. Military strength is just one aspect of your nation, as well as population, production or science. It is up to you which aspect you will concentrate on, more or less, but you should not underestimate any of them while building your civilization.

Victory is achieved by the player whose nation produces the most culture during the game. However, there are many ways to produce culture: through religion, literature or drama, by building wonders, by utilizing cultural persons etc. Considerable amount of culture can be gained even via wars or aggression.
Description from BGG

This is the thread for a Play By Forum game of Vlaada Chvátil's Through The Ages. This is not a short, simple game; it is an epic civilisation building game. As such, players should expect the game to take at least a few months (I predict about 3-4, depending on activity). This does mean it should be an engrossing, fun and strategically deep game, and the long time period should give you lots of time to plan out your moves.

A copy of the rules can be found on BGG here. The rules are great, they're mostly very clear, and so I will make no attempt to explain the rules myself, and instead advise potential players to read them (you will need a BGG account, which if you don't have, is hassle free to make). I will of course try and answer any questions players may have.

An almost final copy of the master spreadsheet I will be using to run the game can be found here, which contains all of the cards, the player layouts, etc. Notably, it also shows the example civilisation from page 10 of the rulebook (which BTW is ludicrously good for the end of age I, nobody will be anything near as good as that), which should give you an idea of how data is laid out on the sheets.

Each player will get access to their own spreadsheets, which will show them everything they're allowed to see (public information such as each players civilisation, the card rows, deck sizes+their hands and the like). There will also be a generic public spreadsheet, just containing the public information, for spectators. I won't just be relying on the spreadsheets to do everything; at the end of each turn I will be posting the card row, culture/science/military and culture/science indicators in the thread, i.e. an overview of the game so far.

We will be playing either the advanced, or full game, depending on player choice. We may also play in teams, with two (or more) people managing a civilisation between them, able to discuss and plan by PM etc. Ultimately, I'd like people to state their preferences when they sign up. Or in other words, when you sign up please answer these:
Would you prefer the Advanced (shorter & easier) or Full (longer & more rewarding) game, and how strongly would you prefer it?
Do you want to play in teams, as single players, or do you have no preference? How would you feel about some players being in teams, and others on their own (just in case the numbers are awkward)?

I'd like to run a 4 player game, but will run 3 player as well (but again, if you have a strong preference on these, feel free to say it).

Signups:
Qvist
Watno (full game, no teams)
Kuildeous (neutral, okay with teams)
Galzria (Full game, indifferent with teams)

As I've drastically changed the first post, here's a copy of the original one so the following posts make sense

Through the Ages is a pretty complex civilisation building game, which can take a long time to play face to face... and along with it having what I feel are favorable mechanics for it (little if any randomness during turns, allowing lots of actions to be taken in one heap), I think this could work as a PBF game.

Now, I've only played one game (Advanced Game), but in terms of mechanics it's not too difficult to follow, so I'd be able to run a game of it. A few possible issues are:
1) It is a pretty complex game. I'd likely start with the Advanced game, because it's a little less brutal than the full game, but still strategically deep compared to the simple game. But there's quite a few rules to learn, so things might be a little slow in the first few turns.
2) The sweet spot is 3 players. That's not a huge number to run a game for. I was considering, if there's sufficient interest, to have people paired off (or even tripled up), which lets players co-operate on a civilisation, but then well I'm not sure about if that would really work or not. It can be played 4 player, that's also good.
3) You can already play it online, but that's in real time. This would be somewhat easier to wrap ones head around, due to thinking time, and hey we've got a little community going here right?

So right now, I'm throwing this out as an idea. You can find the rulebook on BGG here but I believe you need an account (free and easy to make though) to view files. If there's sufficient interest, I'll run a game, if not, I won't (and if people think the idea is crazy, you're probably right).

(Also if someone has a good reason for knowing why it wouldn't work as a PBF, pointing that out might be good too)

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 07:19:59 pm by Tables »
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Watno

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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 01:06:11 pm »

I'd be in. I dont know the difference between advanced and full game, but would prefer full.
I also think the sweet spot at 3 is just because it takes even longer with 4, which wouldnt be as much of an issue in PBF.
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Captain_Frisk

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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2012, 01:09:02 pm »

Are you guys about to turn a 4 hour game into a 4 month game?
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Watno

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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2012, 01:15:37 pm »

well, we did turn a 15 minute game into a 3 weeks game before, so 4 hours -> 4 months wouldn't be that bad.
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Galzria

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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 01:30:26 pm »

Never played!

/in
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Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 01:36:36 pm »

Are you guys about to turn a 4 hour game into a 4 month game?

I actually don't think it'll take THAT long. Each person gets ~20 turns right? Assuming that we get through a turn per day (pretty reasonable, methinks, might be slower at times but also faster at times as people will often know what they're planning in advance) that's less than 3 months.

And besides, it wouldn't be a Civ game if it didn't take Months, right?

I'd be in. I dont know the difference between advanced and full game, but would prefer full.
I also think the sweet spot at 3 is just because it takes even longer with 4, which wouldnt be as much of an issue in PBF.

True, I think. Main differences between Advanced and Full are:
Advanced ends at the end of age II, not age III (that's 1/3rd of the game gone, right there)
In Full, you lose 2 population from your bank at the end of each age, making it tougher to keep up with food demands and tougher to increase your population.
In Full, you have War events, which essentially force everyone to compete military.
In Full, at game end, everyone gets one extra turn in age IV, unless age III ends on the first players turn, in which case everyone just gets their last turn. In Advanced, everyone just gets their last turn regardless of who ended the game.
In Full, the current and future event deck is resolved at the end of the game. In Advanced, 4 Age III events are dealt publicly at game start, and those are resolved at game end.

Might be a few other minor points I've forgotten.

So far I see two people interested. All we need now is Robz and someone else! Er... I mean, two other people!
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 01:40:10 pm »

I'm interested, I'm actually more interested in playing as part of a team with a QT to discuss strategy as I've never played before, but I'm definitely interested even if I'm on my own.
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 01:48:49 pm »

Well, three interested parties is enough for me to run the game, whoop whoop.

This probably means I should start making resources, doesn't it :)?
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2012, 01:52:04 pm »

I'm intrigued by this. I hadn't committed to this, since I'm not sure how much time I could commit to it.

I, however, would be cool with teaming up with someone. At least if I can't contribute much, I wouldn't be slowing the game down.

I've only played once, and I honestly forgot how the game goes. I only remember that I enjoyed it.
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2012, 02:06:22 pm »

Assuming nobody objects, I'd personally be happy for some people to play solo and others to play on teams. I don't know how much of an advantage talking things over would give, although I suspect it'd be some.

That said, 4 interested people makes me hopeful, perhaps 6 or 8 people in pairs could be possible.
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 04:16:22 pm »

If someone (even not in the game) has a copy of the game, could they give me the exact wording on a few cards? I'm using a card list off of BGG, and it's a little vague in a few places.
In particular, Age II Military aggressions - Sabotage, Spy and Plunder. The wordings I have: Spy says the aggressor 'scores same amount', which I assume is Science and not Culture. Sabotage is a delightfully vague 1 MA/3 Culture per 'level', which either means stage of wonder built, OR age leve of the card, and both make perfect sense. Finally Plunder just says the loser loses 5 resources/food, it doesn't say who chooses what kind they lose. It also isn't clear if the victor has to take exactly the same type that was hit (I presume so)

Edit: I've sorted out Plunder now. Spy I'm pretty sure is science. Still not sure on Sabotage.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 04:34:41 pm by Tables »
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Re: Through the Ages PBF?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 06:48:38 pm »

I realise I'm close to spamming my own thread at this point, but I'm probably going to present the civilisation information direct from spreadsheets, as it's pretty complex to parse up into an easily readable format.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPT0N9WtHcKdFBzZUowTWxyYWxKWHFVSmNfMnBRN1E#gid=9

This is what I currently have, if you look particularly at the Player 1 Civilisation tab, does that seem to make sense? The idea would be whenever you play a technology, it's simply inserted into the relevant location. Then most of the calcuations are automated. It's supposed to show everything that's public information in a (hopefully) easy to grasp format. Your indicators are how much each total grows by each turn, while the total available shows how much of that resource you have (some things don't 'grow', like Military and happy faces, so don't have an indicator). Then the rest of the document shows your technologies, how many of them you have (people you have on them), what they do and what resources they might be holding. At the bottom are your population and resource banks, along with your unused worker pool, and each of those also shows the various costs associated with them.

Still to do is to make a game state sheet (which would contain the card row, the event decks, and the like, as well as probably showing game summaries such as culture/science/military at a glance), and individual hands.

What I'm likely to do with these sheets is the same trick theory is using in Hanabi II; I'll make each player a sheet, and import (and protect) the data they're allowed to see each onto their own sheets. I'll still aim to make 'real' posts in updates, probably involving resolving events, updating the card row and the like. But I suspect a lot of information will be best tracked through spreadsheets.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 07:56:52 pm by Tables »
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Re: Through the Ages - Now open to signups
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 07:22:33 am »

More spamming my own thread, whee!

We're ready to go. I've totally revamped the first post, because I don't think I need to make a new thread. Those of you who expressed interest before, could you sign up again and answer the questions (just so I have an easier to track record, is all!)
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Re: Through the Ages - Now open to signups
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 08:25:21 am »

I'm interested to join

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Re: Through the Ages - Now open to signups
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 08:35:44 am »

/in for full. Since I played this game before, advanced game seems to be a huge step back, and I'll wait wether there are people who haven't played before for that.
I'd prefer not to play in a team, but wouldn't mind if others do, as long as it doesn't slow the game too much.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Through the Ages - Now open to signups
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 05:39:59 pm »

Quote
Would you prefer the Advanced (shorter & easier) or Full (longer & more rewarding) game, and how strongly would you prefer it?
Do you want to play in teams, as single players, or do you have no preference? How would you feel about some players being in teams, and others on their own (just in case the numbers are awkward)?

I am not leaning either way toward Advanced or Full. I played Advanced once (still seems funny that Advanced is the shorter version), so my personal experience is pretty slim, but I wouldn't object to being tossed into the deep end. I'll just need to really digest the rules.

In the interest of not slowing the game down, I'm good with teams. I am not leaning strongly toward it, but I imagine that with the number of interested parties, I imagine this won't be a problem.

I'm also okay with players being a mixture of teams and single people. If I knew more about this game, I probably wouldn't vote for teams either, so I fully understand that sentiment.
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Re: Through the Ages - Now open to signups
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 05:53:06 pm »

Full preferred - no reason to short change ourselves!

Teams indifferent - I have no problems with them, and enjoy having more people involved in more games. However, I also don't want it to show things down, which multi-player conversations might. So I could go either way here.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2012, 07:22:59 pm »

Okay I've made the decision, based on what everyone's said, we'll be playing the full game, with everyone playing for themselves (i.e. no teams).

I've got things... mostly prepared (by which I mean, I'm going to discover a few hours of preparation I need to do when I actually look), so I'll probably aim for a start tomorrow or maybe Tuesday (on second thought, probably Tuesday, IIRC I have a Christmas party tomorrow (these things happen early to students...)), so for now, I just suggest reading the rules through entirely if you haven't already, asking any questions you might have etc.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2012, 07:46:38 pm »

What do you think about making turn order geographical? Qvist and I live in Germany as far as i know, while Galz and Kuildeous (that name is complicated) are over in America. I think it might be good if people from the same continent go after each other, so we don't have to wait for the others to get up/home or whatever as much. Events might screw it up though.
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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2012, 08:04:59 pm »

Reading the rules, I'm glad for no teams now. The rules are coming back to me now, and I think I'll be able to handle this game on my own.

I'll probably still suck, but at least each mistake is my own.
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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 08:06:29 pm »

BTW, since its not in the spreadsheet anymore:
Full cardlist
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Tables

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2012, 08:11:04 pm »

BTW, since its not in the spreadsheet anymore:
Full cardlist

If you're referring to my spreadsheet, you guys should still be able to view that. I'm going to keep that one public, then copypaste to the real one I'm going to use. I hope the card texts are clear enough, but I can clarify ones that aren't.

What do you think about making turn order geographical? Qvist and I live in Germany as far as i know, while Galz and Kuildeous (that name is complicated) are over in America. I think it might be good if people from the same continent go after each other, so we don't have to wait for the others to get up/home or whatever as much. Events might screw it up though.

I'm okay with this, if everyone else is. I'll randomise inside your countries, and then randomly choose a first player.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:12:17 pm by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2012, 08:23:25 pm »

Guess I should read the rules tonight.  8)
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2012, 08:29:27 pm »

Guess I should read the rules tonight.  8)

Don't worry, my 'Tuesday' will turn into 'Thursday', then into 'BRB home for Christmas see ya in January' ;).

(But SRSLY we're starting Tuesday).

Also, I played TtA today with a friend. After playing the Advanced game on Wednesday, which ended 59-60, we played the full game today. It was hilarious.

He went full culture engine, gaining about 16 culture per turn by about the end of age II, while I built an economic engine with military (his military strength was I think 2 at this point). I drew a few aggressions, but no wars, much to m frustration. Eventually I got a Holy War, and after sacrificing my Air Force and tactics card set, declared my military strength of 76... against his just built up to and sacrificed 24. End result: His entire population went back into the population bank, and I gained 42 Culture. A few turns later, and the game ended... and my late push bought me up to 186 culture. Meanwhile, his early culture engine took him up to... 186 culture!

There are two conclusions here.
1) Differing strategies can work here, but...
2) Don't abandon your military if you dislike the idea of your neighbour claiming EVERYTHING YOU OWN as their religious territory.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Through the Ages: A story of civilisation (Signups closed)
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2012, 08:41:51 pm »

Will the alternate corruption rule be in effect?

I’d prefer if it is, simply because there are lots of different things to track, and this would take the sting out of a surprise, and it doesn’t seem to be a big tactical point. I’m ambivalent about the other variants, though. The alternate corruption rule flattens the steep learning curve just a little bit.
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