Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3  All

Author Topic: Best $0-$1 cards?  (Read 14041 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +936
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Best $0-$1 cards?
« on: August 30, 2012, 11:12:44 am »
0

Seems like we've got enough now that we could have such a list, despite that only one of them is a kingdom card.  What would it look like?  This is my stab at it, but note that I haven't played Dark Ages yet and can only surmise about many of these.

The Good - Usually provides some benefit and often provides great benefit.

1. Followers
2. Trusty Steed
3. Mercenary
4. Princess
5. Madman
6. Bag of Gold
7. Diadem
8. Spoils
9. Poor House

The Bad - Usually detrimental to your deck but provides situationally desirable benefits.

10. Copper
11. Necropolis
12. Abandoned Mine
13. Survivors
14. Ruined Market

The Ugly - Virtually always bad cards.  Except in edge cases, benefits are limited to mitigating the damage they do to your deck.

15. Ruined Library
16. Overgrown Estate
17. Hovel
18. Ruined Village
19. Curse
Logged

Insomniac

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 785
  • Respect: +392
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 11:14:46 am »
0

I like overgrown estate when Im trashing. Although you have to remodel or straight trash to get any value out of it. (develop gets an estate AND a copper on top after you draw your card. Pretty terrible.)
Logged
"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2641
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3381
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 11:15:31 am »
0

If those are meant to be in order, I think Poor House might end up being a good deal more useful than we assume, but we'll see. And Diadem is so worthless because it's so hard to get. But other than that, nice list!

Necropolis is a nice card. Well, it's not, but it's a great substitute for Estate. Much better than the other two.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +936
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 11:22:49 am »
0

I like overgrown estate when Im trashing. Although you have to remodel or straight trash to get any value out of it. (develop gets an estate AND a copper on top after you draw your card. Pretty terrible.)

The on-trash benefit is nice, but consider that if you hadn't had that card in your deck at all, you'd be effectively reaping its on-trash +1 Card every time it would have come up.  Essentially it clogs your deck until you can get rid of it, and then it starts giving you that invisible pseudo +1 Card one shuffle earlier than if you'd trashed some other dead card instead.

If you can trash it for benefit, that's different.  But generally speaking the benefit you can get out of trashing a $1 card is pretty small.  It makes Apprentice a cantrip, Salvager a terminal Copper, etc.  Not inspiring.  Remodel to a Silver is a good move.

But all told, its benefit is really just something that mitigates the harm it does your deck by being there in the first place.  If it were a kingdom card instead of a Shelter, you'd basically never buy it, right?  So I'm content classifying that in the "Ugly" section, even when you'd prefer it to an Estate.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4084
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 11:23:25 am »
0

Hey, rinkworks,

I thought about creating a Pre-Dominion-Card-List-2013-Version-Thread talking about how to put all the Dark Ages cards in categories.

This is one possibility although it seems a little bit strange to compare Followers and Curse.

I thought about splitting these lists into $0* cards and an extra list for either $0-$1 cards or even $0-$2 cards.
Maybe I should create that thread now...

----

Back to topic:

I haven't played much with Dark Ages yet, but I would put Ruined Market over Survivors and Mercenary seems a little bit high. Is it that good?

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +936
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 11:33:35 am »
0

This is one possibility although it seems a little bit strange to compare Followers and Curse.

I thought about splitting these lists into $0* cards and an extra list for either $0-$1 cards or even $0-$2 cards.
Maybe I should create that thread now...

A separate $0* list makes a lot of sense to me.  How you account for Poor House, Ruins, and Shelters, I don't know.  It makes sense not to include Copper or Curse, since you don't include the other base cards in your lists (although maybe it would be interesting to see where Silver and Gold land!), but the rest is all gray area.

Quote
I haven't played much with Dark Ages yet, but I would put Ruined Market over Survivors and Mercenary seems a little bit high. Is it that good?

Beats me.  My reasoning was that Mercenary gives you +2 Cards and +$2, which, with an average card value of $1, is roughly equivalent to what Princess gives you IF you use both of her buys.  On top of that Mercenary trashes, which is sometimes a penalty, but in a deck where you can use that, it will drive up your average card value and therefore its likely yield on its draw.  So that feels like an improvement already.  Now add in the attack, and it looks quite a bit better on average.

Princess does have the higher upside, which is when you've got it in an engine deck with lots of +Buys.

Madman would rank higher, but it's a one-shot.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9620
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 11:43:06 am »
+4

Personally, I would put Poor House in with the $2s and call it "The Best $1/$2 cards."

Madman and Mercenary would not be rated independently; they would merely factor into your judgement on Hermit and Urchin, respectively, just as the Prizes factor in to your rating of Tournament.

Given that the Shelters are not in the Supply (or even in a pile), it would be meaningless to rate them.

Sure, there are five different Ruins, but rating them would be as meaningless as rating Coppers and Curses.

I would keep all ratings purely to kingdom cards.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2641
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3381
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 11:47:22 am »
0

This is one possibility although it seems a little bit strange to compare Followers and Curse.

I thought about splitting these lists into $0* cards and an extra list for either $0-$1 cards or even $0-$2 cards.
Maybe I should create that thread now...

A separate $0* list makes a lot of sense to me.  How you account for Poor House, Ruins, and Shelters, I don't know.  It makes sense not to include Copper or Curse, since you don't include the other base cards in your lists (although maybe it would be interesting to see where Silver and Gold land!), but the rest is all gray area.

Nah, they should just be ranked under "The Best $1- Cards." Just as all cards that cost more than $6 are lumped under "The Best $6+ Cards." This includes Peddler, which has a cost of $8*. Cards that cost $1, $0, or $0* should be covered under "The Best $1- Cards."
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9541
  • Respect: +10576
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 11:53:07 am »
0

I would probably put Necropolis in the good, or at least halfway between good and bad. There are plenty of boards where there is no other Village and good terminals. It's a card you would buy on all those boards if you could buy it. And since you can't buy it, the only question is whether or not you would trash it if you could. And I think there's plenty of boards where you wouldn't.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 12:15:29 pm »
0

I haven't played the complete DA set yet, but I think Poor house is seriously underrated.

Also, for me Ruined library > Ruined market.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:16:49 pm by brokoli »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9541
  • Respect: +10576
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2012, 12:22:10 pm »
+1

Also, for me Ruined library > Ruined market.

I don't see how. Ruined Library is as bad as a Curse/Estate in a lot of situations, and at it's very best is the same as if you didn't have it in your deck at all (if you have extra actions to spare). Ruined Market is as bad as a Curse/Estate in all the same situations that Ruined Library is, but it often can be a crucial part of an engine.

To put it another way, I can't think of a possible situation where you would buy Ruined Library, except the same situations where you would buy a Curse (Gardens, Fairgrounds, etc). But there are a decent amount of situations where you would buy Ruined Market.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ednever

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 648
  • Respect: +722
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2012, 12:32:24 pm »
+1

Seems like we've got enough now that we could have such a list, despite that only one of them is a kingdom card.  What would it look like?  This is my stab at it, but note that I haven't played Dark Ages yet and can only surmise about many of these.

The Good - Usually provides some benefit and often provides great benefit.

1. Followers
2. Trusty Steed
3. Mercenary
4. Princess
5. Madman
6. Bag of Gold
7. Diadem
8. Spoils
9. Poor House

The Bad - Usually detrimental to your deck but provides situationally desirable benefits.

10. Copper
11. Necropolis
12. Abandoned Mine
13. Survivors
14. Ruined Market

The Ugly - Virtually always bad cards.  Except in edge cases, benefits are limited to mitigating the damage they do to your deck.

15. Ruined Library
16. Overgrown Estate
17. Hovel
18. Ruined Village
19. Curse

I played a game on goko yesterday where ruined library worked great. I had a procession, cultist and ruined village. I played procession on the village, getting two actions. Then played the cultist, drawing 2 cards, and still had an action left...

An edge case, but interesting it happened pretty early into my dark ages playing...

Ed
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
  • Respect: +1903
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2012, 12:36:42 pm »
0

Nice listing, but Curse should be in its whole own tier. Not only doesn't it provide any benefit, it directly hurts you if you don't get rid of it and there's nothing to mitigate its awfulness.
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2980
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 12:40:47 pm »
0

I think Ruined Library is definitely better than ruined market in most situations. If you have actions it's just as if it wasn't there. Ruined Market might be really useful in rare situations, but these are even more rare if your deck is clogged with ruins.

I'd also put poor house with the $2 cards. Comparing the 0* cards seems totally pointless to me, since you get them in different ways.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
  • Respect: +1903
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 12:51:19 pm »
+1

The worst thing about Necropolis is that even in boards where it's useful, you can only have one when you'd need many. It'd be a very respectable card in the supply, but its status as a shelter hurts it. It might be worse than ruined market in that respect; on the boards where you'd need its +buy one is usually enough.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
  • Respect: +1903
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 01:05:28 pm »
0

I'd also put poor house with the $2 cards. Comparing the 0* cards seems totally pointless to me, since you get them in different ways.

It reminds me of Duchess, Moat and Secret chamber, where you'd think twice about buying it even if you can't afford anything else, but it seems like it's worth the buy quite often.

In fact, I'd say the situations where buying Duchess is a smart move don't significantly outnumber the situations where you'd want to buy ruined market.

As far as the ruins go
Abandoned Mine is outclassed by copper
Ruined Village and Ruined Library are worse than having nothing. I can't think of any situations where you'd want ruined library, whereas ruined village I can (a board with conspirator and peddler as the only other non-terminals on a colony board with expand, for example). I don't know what to make of survivors but it's probably worse than just getting +1 card and its niche is very, very small.
Logged

Copernicus

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
  • Respect: +31
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2012, 01:06:13 pm »
+3

I think Ruined Library is definitely better than ruined market in most situations. If you have actions it's just as if it wasn't there. Ruined Market might be really useful in rare situations, but these are even more rare if your deck is clogged with ruins.

Ruined Library is less harmful than Ruined Market, but Ruined Market is more useful than Ruined Library.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4786
  • Respect: +3407
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 01:17:50 pm »
0

Maybe a category: best cards that add $0* or $1 costing cards to the supply?

With Tournament, Hermit, Urchin, Ruins, Shelters, etc.....

You can't really compare Tournament prizes to Ruins, it makes no sense.
But you could compare Tournament to looters perchance.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Cuzz

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 612
  • Shuffle iT Username: Cuzz
  • Respect: +1013
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 02:06:17 pm »
+3

Nice listing, but Curse should be in its whole own tier. Not only doesn't it provide any benefit, it directly hurts you if you don't get rid of it and there's nothing to mitigate its awfulness.

Curse is a great defense against Mountebank.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1928
  • Respect: +1903
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 02:12:23 pm »
0

Nice listing, but Curse should be in its whole own tier. Not only doesn't it provide any benefit, it directly hurts you if you don't get rid of it and there's nothing to mitigate its awfulness.

Curse is a great defense against Mountebank.

I wish there was a card that especially punished you for copper in your deck so that you'd buy curses in games with Mountebank
Logged

Insomniac

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 785
  • Respect: +392
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2012, 02:13:23 pm »
0

I really wanted to love poor house but on soo many boards its just bad. Remake on board your coppers are poor houses instead of nothing (which you often want). No trashing or filtering and you icompletely ingnore this card. In filter scenarios it has potential but often ends up being 2 or 3.

Anyways the things that Poor house needs on the board to be good
Trashing / or some really good filtering (Vault/Storeroom)
+Actions, since you don't want money in hand your gonna need to play multiples of these.

Things poor house WANTS
Possibly card draw to get multiple poor houses.
Probably +buy to buy X+Poor house early and double province later.
Logged
"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9184
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2012, 02:35:23 pm »
0

I really wanted to love poor house but on soo many boards its just bad. Remake on board your coppers are poor houses instead of nothing (which you often want). No trashing or filtering and you icompletely ingnore this card. In filter scenarios it has potential but often ends up being 2 or 3.

Anyways the things that Poor house needs on the board to be good
Trashing / or some really good filtering (Vault/Storeroom)
+Actions, since you don't want money in hand your gonna need to play multiples of these.

Things poor house WANTS
Possibly card draw to get multiple poor houses.
Probably +buy to buy X+Poor house early and double province later.

Throne Rooooom.
Logged

rinkworks

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1316
  • Respect: +936
    • View Profile
    • RinkWorks
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2012, 02:39:30 pm »
0

I think Ruined Library is definitely better than ruined market in most situations. If you have actions it's just as if it wasn't there. Ruined Market might be really useful in rare situations, but these are even more rare if your deck is clogged with ruins.

I'd also put poor house with the $2 cards. Comparing the 0* cards seems totally pointless to me, since you get them in different ways.

There are two ways to look at this.

(1) How does this card compare with not having it at all?
(2) If I have to have one of the two, which one would I rather have?

When you go by reasoning (1), then Ruined Market beats Ruined Library HANDS DOWN.  Ruined Library NEVER helps your deck short of specific unusual combos.  On the other hand, Ruined Market is usable in a variety of situations, mostly when it's the only source of +Buy, or the other sources of +Buy have strings attached to them (Baron, Trade Route).

When you go by reasoning (2), as you might when you've just been hit by a Cultist and have to take some sort of Ruins anyway, then, yes, Ruined Library is probably less damaging to your deck on balance.

I was very careful and deliberate in the wording of my original post.  I categorized Ruined Market as "Usually detrimental to your deck but provides situationally desirable benefits," which is absolutely true.  And I categorized Ruined Library as "Except in edge cases, benefits are limited to mitigating the damage they do to your deck."  That is also absolutely true.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 02:40:34 pm by rinkworks »
Logged

kn1tt3r

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 585
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2012, 04:34:40 pm »
0

I think Ruined Library is definitely better than ruined market in most situations. If you have actions it's just as if it wasn't there. Ruined Market might be really useful in rare situations, but these are even more rare if your deck is clogged with ruins.

I'd also put poor house with the $2 cards. Comparing the 0* cards seems totally pointless to me, since you get them in different ways.

There are two ways to look at this.

(1) How does this card compare with not having it at all?
(2) If I have to have one of the two, which one would I rather have?

When you go by reasoning (1), then Ruined Market beats Ruined Library HANDS DOWN.  Ruined Library NEVER helps your deck short of specific unusual combos.  On the other hand, Ruined Market is usable in a variety of situations, mostly when it's the only source of +Buy, or the other sources of +Buy have strings attached to them (Baron, Trade Route).

When you go by reasoning (2), as you might when you've just been hit by a Cultist and have to take some sort of Ruins anyway, then, yes, Ruined Library is probably less damaging to your deck on balance.

I was very careful and deliberate in the wording of my original post.  I categorized Ruined Market as "Usually detrimental to your deck but provides situationally desirable benefits," which is absolutely true.  And I categorized Ruined Library as "Except in edge cases, benefits are limited to mitigating the damage they do to your deck."  That is also absolutely true.

I'm not sure about those two either, but you are basically right. If you don't want either of them, you'd rather take Ruined Library. On the other hand, Ruined Market is a card you sometimes even want to BUY, which would almost never happen for the Library.
Logged

Cuzz

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 612
  • Shuffle iT Username: Cuzz
  • Respect: +1013
    • View Profile
Re: Best $0-$1 cards?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2012, 10:50:21 pm »
0

Maybe a category: best cards that add $0* or $1 costing cards to the supply?

With Tournament, Hermit, Urchin, Ruins, Shelters, etc.....

You can't really compare Tournament prizes to Ruins, it makes no sense.
But you could compare Tournament to looters perchance.

Yeah, I really don't think it makes any sense to compare $0* to $0. I think Donald X. once said the $0* symbol was just like a placeholder to emphasize that they can't be bought. OK, I guess they do count as costing 0 for purposes of remodeling and such, but in terms of "worth" or "value" the $0* might as well be a $@. It's just not useful to compare them directly.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All
 

Page created in 0.073 seconds with 22 queries.