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Author Topic: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards  (Read 15440 times)

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Qvist

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The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« on: August 10, 2012, 07:24:15 am »
+4

The Best $6+ Cards
Link to the win rates on Councilroom
Link 2 to the win rates on Councilroom

#14 =0 Adventurer (Base) Weighted Average: 13.86 ▼0.05 / Median: 14 =0 / Mode: 14 =0 / Standard Deviation: 1.1 ▼0.5
Highest Rank(s): #9 (2x), #10 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #14 (59x)

Again a nearly "perfect" score for the Adventurer. Only 7 times it wasn't voted last.

By all means Adventurer is no bad card. But all $6+ cards have the problem competing with Gold. And Adventurer is only superior to Gold in decks without Copper and even $5 cards like Harvest or Merchant Ship (can) give you $4 easily. The filter effect is nice and finds still 2 treasure cards if you are already heavily greening what is especially good with Platinum. But the same does Venture (you see the name sililarity?) without spending an action and for one coin less. So, most of the time, Adventurer is just overpriced, but can be nice in a chapelled deck with no better alternatives.
#13 =0 Farmland (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 11.58 ▼0.11 / Median: 12 =0 / Mode: 13 =0 / Standard Deviation: 1.9 ▼0.1
Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #7 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (27x), #14 (2x)

Over one third voted it second last, but it still got 11 votes above #10. That's similar to last time.

Farmland is definitely no power card, but still should be considered as a good buy in a handful of situations. At first it seems weak as it is more expensive and gives less VP than a Duchy. But the on-buy remodel effect can be very handy. You really have to calculate the benefits. If you have $7, you can remodel a Copper into an Estate, but then it would be better to buy a Duchy for the same VP. For $8 you could buy a Province directly, but if you're behind and there are only few Provinces left, just remodel a Silver into a Duchy for 5VP. For $9 Farmland is like an extra buy, if you remodel a Gold into a Province for 8VP total. In the middle game you even may prefer Farmland over Duchy, because with a Farmland in hand you only need $6 and a Farmland in hand to get a Province. Especially nice is Farmland in cursing games. For $6 and a Curse in hand, Farmland is worth 4VP. There are even more nice situations like getting 2 victory cards in Silk Road games or trashing a Potion to get a Gold.
#12 ▼1 Harem (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 9.91 ▼0.09 / Median: 10 =0 / Mode: 12 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 2.5 ▼0.2
Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #6 (8x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (9x), #14 (2x)

The places #9-#12 were really close, like last time. This time Harem is the worst of these 4 cards. It has 2 last ranks and a fourth rank. It was 12 times on #12.

Like all cards in this list, Harem is by far no bad card, but it's another card that's not really game dominating. Especially in Big Money games where you rarely need more than 1-2 Golds you can pick easily pick up Harems in the mid-game if you still fall short for Provinces. This gives you -1VP in comparism to Duchies, but you will see this Harem still 2-3 times to make it worth a buy and give you enough money to win the Provinces split or make the 2VP difference to win this game. Harem is also good in Silk Road games and in combination with Hoard (don't buy Gold, just buy a Hoard and Harems), Mine (mine early Silvers into Harems) and Mints (extra money and VP is nice). In Colony games, Harem is really ignorable because neither Silver nor 2VP are worth a buy.
#11 ▼2 Expand (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 9.78 ▼0.72 / Median: 9 ▼0.5 / Mode: 12 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 2.5 ▲0.1
Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #5 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (7x)

Expand is 0.13 points better than Harem and lost 2 ranks, so it isn't the best of these 4 cards anymore. It was 13 times on #12.

Expand is a mix between Remodel and Mine, but is another card that has drawback of being too expensive. So if you want to trash treasure cards in the late game for victory cards, Remodel manages that too for $3 less. If you want trash treasure cards for better treasure cards, Mine does it even better for $2 less. Its best use is to trash victory cards for better ones. This is especially nice in Colony games. With 2 Expands you can start greening earlier and even buy Provinces to expand them later into Colonies for a benefit of 4VP. And if you have a good drawing engine this works even better. You only need one copy to expand a card into a (better) victory card each turn. And expanding Peddlers into Colonies may be its strongest combo.
#10 =0 Forge (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 9.68 ▼0.38 / Median: 10 ▼1 / Mode: 11 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 3.0 ▼0.3
Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #4 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (7x), #14 (2x)

Forge is the card with the highest deviation in this list. It stays on the same rank, but still loses points.

Forge is really hard to evaluate because it heavily depends from the cards on the board. Forge is like a much better Chapel because you can quickly trash many cards out of your deck and get an additional benefit, but has 3 big drawbacks. 1.) It's too expensive. If you get to $7 you mostly can't heavily trash anymore because you have too many cards in hand you want to keep. But with cards on the board that can give you $7 early like Baron, Apothecary or Tactician, Forge is really strong. 2.) Forge needs big hand sizes to be really worth it (comparing to other trash-for-benefit cards). Cards like Apothecary or Tactician accomplish this too, but if you have good draw engines, a Forge may also worth a buy to trash a few cards for a late Province. But with discarding attacks Forge is weak. 3.) The term "exactly" and the obligatory gain makes Forge swingy. With a Forge in hand heavy calculating goes on. If you just want to get rid of cards like Coppers or Estates you often have to gain at least a Copper or an Estate or another card you basically don't want. Only if you manage to reach $10 where no card exists you get rid of those. And if you want to forge a Province you often draw the wrong cards (e.g. only treasure cards). Summary: You have to really consider if Forge is a trap or worth a buy, like in Torturer engines where you can simply take all Curses in hand to forge them right away.
#9 ▲3 Fairgrounds (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 9.21 ▲0.72 / Median: 10 =0 / Mode: 10 =0 / Standard Deviation: 2.6 ▼0.4
Highest Rank(s): #3 (2x), #4 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (6x)

Fairgrounds is the big winner of those 4 cards. It's still very close and in the next lists, they could easily change positions again. It was 12 times on #12.

Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province and Fairgrounds and you have already 7 different cards. With 3 more cards, every Fairgrounds is already worth more than a Duchy. Especially in cursing and Potion games, this is easy to accomplish. This is still making it a mediocre card. But in games where you have many cantrips and a good source of buy, Fairgrounds can be really strong. Just buy 15 of the 19 different cards and every Fairgrounds is worth 6VP like a Province and this for $2 less. And with Black Market on the board it is even easier to get 15 or even 20 different cards and may be the board determining combo.
#8 ▼1 Bank (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 8.38 ▼0.54 / Median: 9 ▼2 / Mode: 9 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 2.4 ▲0.3
Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #4 (8x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (11x), #12 (2x)

Bank loses one rank, but gains a little bit of consensus. It's the card with the "best worse" rank so far.

Bank's value really depends from the board. Bank is dependant from big hand sizes and +Buy. On an average board, especially Big Money games, Bank is mostly worse than Gold. While 3 Golds allow you to buy a Province, 3 Banks don't. So it can really be a trap card. But with a drawer it can be also better than Gold (e.g. 4 Copper + Bank instead of 4 Copper + Gold). And with the addition of +Buy it can get incredibly powerful. Margrave/Wharf Big Money with Bank is great. And in combination with Tactician or Apothecary+Herbalist(or another +Buy) Bank is really powerful. In Colony games Platinum is still stronger in almost every situation, but still Bank is no bad card in Colony games and just depends of above mentioned scenarios.
#7 ▲1 Nobles (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 7.63 ▲0.63 / Median: 7 ▲2 / Mode: 7 ▲4 / Standard Deviation: 2.7 ▲0.5
Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #3 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #13 (4x)

Nobles has the second highest deviation in this list with a range from first to second last. It's the first card in this list that was voted first. Although it has 4 votes in second last, it is better than last time and managed to beat Bank.

I like to call Nobles another trap card what the high deviation shows me too. Yes, Nobles is a self working combo when you use it for +2 Actions and +3 Cards alternating. But 2 Nobles still give you only a +1 Card Bonus what one Laboratory gives you too. So a Big Money player is going to outrace a "Nobles-Engine" player, it's just to slow. You should rather see it as a Village or a Smity with two extra VP just how you need it. Playing Big Money with Nobles instead of Smithy is nice, you just need to get to $6 early. And if you fall short for another Province you can easily buy another Nobles because two Nobles don't collide, you only can draw them dead. Still it is in direct competition with Gold. But after 1-2 Golds you can often easily switch to Nobles. However, in Colony games the 2VP from Nobles are ignorable. Only buy it in those games if you really really need the +2 Actions or the Smithy effect.
#6 ▼2 Hoard (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 6.75 ▼0.59 / Median: 7 ▼2 / Mode: 6 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 2.2 ▲0.4
Highest Rank(s): #4 (8x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (3x), #12 (1x), #14 (1x)

Hoard is the best rated card in this list which was voted last at least once. On the other side its best rank is only on #4, but it was voted there 8 times. It loses two ranks and was voted on #6 12 times.

Hoard is really good if you play it right. If you use it to buy a Victory card every time you have it in hand, just to get a Gold, this is maybe not the right play because then your money average approximates to ~1.5$ what isn't enough for a Province and is even worse in Colony games. But it's great if you want go green anyway. Your deck doesn't clog up too much and you may keep buying Provinces or at least Duchies until the end of the game. So if you pick up a Hoard after your first Gold in Big Money games you can go green pretty early. Hoard is also good if you use the free Gold for trash-for-benefit cards, especially Apprentice. Just trash a Gold with Apprentice, buy a Province with a Hoard in hand to get another Gold and do the same in the next turns over and over. Hoard works also nice with dual-type victory cards especially Harem and maybe Great Hall. With Nobles it really depends if you not rather buy directly that Gold.
#5 ▲1 Peddler (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 6.22 ▲0.35 / Median: 6 =0 / Mode: 5 =0 / Standard Deviation: 2.5 ▲0.2
Highest Rank(s): #3 (5x) / Lowest Rank(s): #12 (2x), #13 (2x)

Peddler is one rank better with only few changes in your votes. It was voted on #5 14 times.

Peddler basically don't belongs in this list similarly to Duchess, because you almost never spend $8 for a Peddler as its effect is only worth ~$4. So if you spend $6 or $8 for a Peddler, this was mostly a waste. But in games with many +Buys like Grand Markets, Worker's Villages or Hamlets, you can easily pick up Peddlers for $0 or $2. Peddlers are also good in combination with duration cards as they count for price reduction in both turns. But it is in this list and it is so high in this list because it really shines in combination with trash-for-benefit cards and then its cost shows to advantage, e.g. - like above mentioned - expanding it into a Colony. As it is the only card for $8, its also worth mentioning how it works with Swindler. As long as there are still Peddlers left, there is the danger that it get swindled. But when the Peddlers are gone, you have a great defense against Swindler. Another quick note: Beware of three-piling in Peddler games with +Buy.
#4 ▲1 Border Village (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 5.22 ▲1.19 / Median: 5 ▲1 / Mode: 4 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 2.2 ▼0.2
Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (1x), #3 (6x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (1x), #12 (2x)

Border Village is a Hinterlands card that made the biggest jump in this list - not in ranks, but in points. It's the second card with a first place and was voted 23 times on #4.

For every good engine Border Village is great. Especially if you have $6 and there are strong terminal $5 cards on the board and you want the $5 card anyway, you get a Village for free. Do this a few times and you basically are guaranteed to have a Village in each hand. The uses are similar to when you want many Fishing Villages. Border Village + Torturer is maybe the strongest combo. Still this is in strong competition with Gold. It's really a trap in cases where you want a Big Money-like strategy. Especially with the first $6 you often rather buy a Gold than a Border Village in most cases. Border Village also very good on boards with trash-for-benefit cards because for every $6 you have you can buy a Border Village and the trash-for-benefit card. Later you can trash the Border Village for 4VP with Bishop, 6 cards with Apprentice, 6$ with Salvager or remodel it into a Province, etc. And in Gardens games Border Village is just another extra card for you.
#3 ▼1 Grand Market (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 3.59 ▼1.44 / Median: 3 ▼1 / Mode: 3 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 1.7 ▼0.9
Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (7x) / Lowest Rank(s): #7 (3x), #11 (2x)

Grand Market is on the other side the biggest loser. It loses almost 1.5 points. It has also only one first place, but was voted second 7 times. And there are these two big outliers on #11. I was voted third by two third of you.

Grand Market is basically a $8-$9 card and is the dominating card on many boards. Often it's basically a race to get the first Grand Market faster. And with the first Grand Market you can easily buy more of them. You achieve that at best with Vault or any other Source of virtual coins like Baron or Horse Traders and of course with Gold. Grand Markets are very powerful, but still there are situations where it's just too slow to pick them up because of its restriction and is really a trap card. Other strategies are just quicker. They are great in nearly all decks, but Grand Markets really shine in thin decks where you can chain them. Then they are even better than Platinum! The same applies in combination with King's Court. But in Colony games with heavy cursing or other thick decks, Platinum is still the stronger card.
#2 ▲1 Goons (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 1.70 ▲0.79 / Median: 2 ▲0.5 / Mode: 2 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 1.6 ▼0.3
Highest Rank(s): #1 (22x) / Lowest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #5 (1x), #13 (1x)

Goons is now the second best card in this list. One third of you ranked it first and over a half of you ranked it second. No real doubt here, beside the one player that ranked it second last!?

Goons is a strong and board dominating card nearly every time. Yes, it gets quadratically (n^2+n) better the more Goons you can play per turn, so it gets big profit from good drawing engines, but is still great if played alone because of the discarding attack. It's also the only attack card that is so strong that it needs to cost more than $5. So you have a Militia that nets you VP for cards you would have bought either way, great! In the later game you can pick additional VP for Coppers (and with a Watchtower in hand you can even immediately trash them). And if you have that needed actions and set up a really nice engine with Goons and manage to play 3 or more Goons per turn, it is so insane powerful: You can achieve easily 100 or more points. Also a Goons engine has more time for setup as you don't necessarily need to buy Provinces/Colonies. For clarification: King's Court + Goons doesn't triple the VP gaining effect, but you still get the extra money and buys you can use for more VP, so it isn't a so bad combo after all (especially if you have another King's Court and a Masquerade in hand ;) )
#1 =0 King's Court (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 1.48 ▲0.26 / Median: 1 =0 / Mode: 1 =0 / Standard Deviation: 0.7 ▲0.2
Highest Rank(s): #1 (41x) / Lowest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #4 (2x)

Only three of you didn't vote it either first or second and nearly two third of you voted it first. So, King's Court remains the best $6+ card with less doubt than before.

Just like Goons and Grand Market, when King's Court is on the board, there's nearly every time a race who gets it first with cards like Tactician, Baron or Apothecary. Throne Room does nothing for itself and just doubles the action, but still is often skippable, but tripling an action seems like no big difference, but it is a huge boost. If you triple a Curser the game is basically over; if you triple a card drawer like Wharf is really crazy; and with Possession or Saboteur it could get really mad. With King's Court you also need no Village, just triple a Cantrip for a huge benefit. And with King's Courting a King's Court it gets even crazier... Maybe only on Province boards that are already very quick without King's Court or have only terminal non-curse-givers you may skip it. PS: For everyone who has the same problems as I, calculating the actions you may play three times: For every King's Court you play on a King's Court you can play 2 more actions three times - or if you prefer a formula: 2n-1

To the Potion cost cards
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 09:22:35 am by Qvist »
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Grujah

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 08:05:32 am »
0

Hoard overrated. Possibly also BV.
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jsh357

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2012, 08:16:16 am »
0

My biggest disagreements here are Bank and Nobles.  Bank seems to be highly situational while Nobles is generally a must-buy, certainly better on average than Hoard and if stretched Peddler.  Other than that, I find it hard to disagree too much even though my rankings are different.
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DStu

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 08:21:28 am »
0

Bank is #8, in the list Bank and Nobles are both listed as #7.
Edit: Biggest difference is I think Fairgounds on #6 for me, 4VPs/$6 is already better than Duchy, 32 more VPs on the table change the setting a lot, and the potential to get them to 6VPs even more so.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 08:23:44 am by DStu »
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Grujah

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 08:22:04 am »
0

My biggest disagreements here are Bank and Nobles.  Bank seems to be highly situational while Nobles is generally a must-buy, certainly better on average than Hoard and if stretched Peddler.  Other than that, I find it hard to disagree too much even though my rankings are different.

Nobles should def be infront of Hoard.
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Qvist

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 08:26:46 am »
0

Bank is #8, in the list Bank and Nobles are both listed as #7.
Edit: Biggest difference is I think Fairgounds on #6 for me, 4VPs/$6 is already better than Duchy, 32 more VPs on the table change the setting a lot, and the potential to get them to 6VPs even more so.

Thanks for the info. I've corrected it.

chwhite

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 10:48:36 am »
0

This list is as straightforward as can be.  Except for Expand, which had at #9 rather than #11, none of my ranks were more than even one off.  That's some impressive consensus.

That's not to say I don't have a complaint all the same.  Namely, Goons should be #1.  I mean, sure, King's Court is awesome and pants-wettingly powerful, but Goons is the best card in all of Dominion bar none.  I didn't quite realize this last time, but it's true.  Also, yes, Adventurer is a bad card. :P

1. Goons
2. King's Court
3. Grand Market
4. Border Village
5. Peddler
6. Nobles
7. Hoard
8. Bank
9. Expand
10. Fairgrounds
11. Forge
12. Farmland
13. Harem
14. Adventurer
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Powerman

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 10:59:47 am »
0

This list is as straightforward as can be.  Except for Expand, which had at #9 rather than #11, none of my ranks were more than even one off.  That's some impressive consensus.

That's not to say I don't have a complaint all the same.  Namely, Goons should be #1.  I mean, sure, King's Court is awesome and pants-wettingly powerful, but Goons is the best card in all of Dominion bar none.  I didn't quite realize this last time, but it's true.  Also, yes, Adventurer is a bad card. :P

1. Goons
2. King's Court
3. Grand Market
4. Border Village
5. Peddler
6. Nobles
7. Hoard
8. Bank
9. Expand
10. Fairgrounds
11. Forge
12. Farmland
13. Harem
14. Adventurer


King's Court > Goons.  Goon's at least needs some help to be brokenly good (ie. at least +Action, preferably trashing OR good +Draw, other sources of +Buy make it more amazing) but KC just needs itself... and well, anything.  KC makes nearly every card ridiculously strong.  But, to each his own.

KC is ignorable on a board like say:
Chapel, Trading Post, Militia, Remake, Gardens, Silk Road, King's Court, Hoard, Transmute, Chancellor
But, so would Goons.  My feeling is any board Goon's is strong, KC is too.  Some boards KC is strong, Goons isn't.
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 11:08:21 am »
+2

Except Goons/Big Money is a very very strong strategy. I go back and forth on which one should be #1 though.
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theory

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 11:10:00 am »
+4

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons. 
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 11:10:48 am »
0

It's really really strong card which you can almost never ignore vs. coo-coo bananas strong card which you usually can't ignore.

(Somewhat ninja'd by theory...)



Eh, they're both SO FAR ABOVE everything else in the list, it's ridiculous.
How did GM get 2nd last time?

jonts26

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 11:10:49 am »
+7

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons.

Picard. What's the debate?
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Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 11:11:26 am »
0

This list is as straightforward as can be.  Except for Expand, which had at #9 rather than #11, none of my ranks were more than even one off.  That's some impressive consensus.

That's not to say I don't have a complaint all the same.  Namely, Goons should be #1.  I mean, sure, King's Court is awesome and pants-wettingly powerful, but Goons is the best card in all of Dominion bar none.  I didn't quite realize this last time, but it's true.  Also, yes, Adventurer is a bad card. :P

1. Goons
2. King's Court
3. Grand Market
4. Border Village
5. Peddler
6. Nobles
7. Hoard
8. Bank
9. Expand
10. Fairgrounds
11. Forge
12. Farmland
13. Harem
14. Adventurer


Chwhite, I agree with your list, almost completely, except I would put King's Court ahead of Goons, I think Nobles should probably be ahead of Peddler, and possible Expand ahead of Bank.

As for the official list, it's mostly great, but it infuriates me to see Expand lose out to Forge. I don't even remember the last time I bought Forge. It's a card you want early on that you can only get early on if you're lucky. They are so many more cost effective trashers that get the job done. And Forge is soooo dependent on drawing it with the stuff you actually want to trash. Expand has that problem too, but you only need Expand and one other car to make this worthwhile. And Expand can do all the cool end-game stuff like Salvager and Apprentice. Expand is just better.

As for Nobles and Peddlers... I almost never pass up Nobles entirely. Whereas Peddler, I do pass them up if there isn't +Buy. Those boards are rare and getting rarer, but it happens. It's a tough call, but Nobles is the better card, I think.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 11:12:15 am »
+1

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons.

Picard. What's the debate?
Yeah, Kirk is not a great captain, really, who is obsessively in love with his ship above way too many other things, and then... blows that ship up?

andwilk

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 12:12:10 pm »
0

I think Goons should be #1 over King's Court.  The decider for me is how many times do I pass up Goons on a board vs King's Court?  I feel Goons is dominant on more boards than King's Court.  My Council room stats back that up:

I buy Goons on 90.7% of boards given available, while I only buy King's Court on 73.3% of boards.

The general population agrees:

Goons - 88.0%
King's Court - 83.9%
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 12:17:00 pm »
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Just because you buy a card more often does not make it a better card. You also have to look at what it does for you when you get it.

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 12:29:49 pm »
+1

Not too much to say here. Probably most of this thread will be repeating the same KC/Goons debate. I like Goons because:
1. It's better by itself. KC needs +buy to avoid being an expensive trap.
2. With villages, it changes the game at a more fundamental level. Provinces cease to matter. KC with buys also makes the game really wild, but really it just makes it longer. It's not like completely different. The object of the game is still the same, which is not really the case with Goons + villages.
3. It's an attack. A fast deck might ignore KC and just go fast and win. Goons directly affects your opponents.
4. It's cheaper. There's a big difference between $6 and $7. There's a reason all the other $7 cards are close to the bottom. It's hard to hit $7.

But in other discussion, the main problem is Nobles is too low. It's easily better than Peddler. Peddler without TfB is a really meh card. Nobles is a victory card that's a pretty decent engine component as well.

The other thing I did that's maybe questionable is that I put Border Village above Grand Market. Maybe I've just gone crazy, but I guess my thinking was the price thing. It's hard to buy GMs, so often they show up too late to be worth anything. Border Villages are riduculously cheap. For $6 (and no restrictions) you get a village and an engine component. It really speed-builds engines. It's obviously not as powerful when you play it, but like GM it's probably worth buying over Province sometimes, and it's just plain buyable (and capable of changing the game by enabling/accelerating engine strategies) more often.
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 12:33:24 pm »
+2

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons.

Picard. What's the debate?
Yeah, Kirk is not a great captain, really, who is obsessively in love with his ship above way too many other things, and then... blows that ship up?
Oddly enough, Kirk ends up as a Woodcutter in Star Trek: Generations, so we're back to Dominion.
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 12:37:53 pm »
+2

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons.

Picard. What's the debate?
Yeah, Kirk is not a great captain, really, who is obsessively in love with his ship above way too many other things, and then... blows that ship up?
Oddly enough, Kirk ends up as a Woodcutter in Star Trek: Generations, so we're back to Dominion.

And he gets a bridge dropped on him.
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 12:38:20 pm »
+1

This is like a Kirk v Picard debate between King's Court and Goons.

Picard. What's the debate?
Yeah, Kirk is not a great captain, really, who is obsessively in love with his ship above way too many other things, and then... blows that ship up?
Oddly enough, Kirk ends up as a Woodcutter in Star Trek: Generations, so we're back to Dominion.
Nah, woodcutting was his paradise-fantasy (really, writers? Come on, his fantasy is captaining the Enterprise).
He ends up dead and buried above-ground... by Picard? Wait, what happened to Picard? Why did he totally change into an incompetent, emotional crackpot in the movies?
It's like, TV show Picard is a great captain, and Movie Kirk is really similar, and a good captain, but TV show Kirk really wasn't, he had all these kinds of qualities that aren't quite really what you want, and Movie Picard is really like that guy more than his television self.

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 12:52:21 pm »
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Switch Hoard and Fairgrounds and you have a much better list. Hoard is so, so overrated here. It's great when the board fits it, and the board doesn't fit it very often. Admittedly it's still not bad when it's not so great, but 'slightly worse than Gold' isn't good when Gold is available at the same cost (and if it isn't, well, your Hoard buy may have a problem...)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 01:34:30 pm »
+1

The problem with ranking the $6+ cards is that most of them are board dependent.  Bank, Adventurer, Farmland, Fairgrounds, etc can all shine, given the right board, but they're not necessarily consistent, and they're not usually a must buy.  The top 4 I agree with - Border Village is still situational, but it makes engines in general so much easier to build.  Grand Market, Goons and King's Court I'd really put on a level with each other.  Unlike the rest, they're usually not situational, and can shine on any board, though they're all best with each other.  Grand Market just becomes a powerhouse, though I agree with it at #3 because of the tricky cost.  But for Goons and King's Court, as has been mentioned above, they're both awesome for different reasons, so it's hard to really place one above the other.
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 10:17:36 pm »
+1

grand market is so much worse thank kc and goons (which are close. i'd say kc is a tad stronger.)
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 10:26:43 pm »
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Harem over Fairgrounds, I can't agree on. I actually somewhat like Farmland, whereas I can't honestly remember the last time I thought "ooh, nice, Harem". You kinda pick it up once in a while, but.. nah.

King's Court is also clearly (clearly*) worse than Goons, but I don't mind seeing that ranking too much. No huge annoyances, other than that.

* We've been over this before. I convinced chwhite that time, which is good enough for me.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 10:41:57 pm by Fabian »
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $6+ cards
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 10:48:37 pm »
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i'd put bank over nobles and i actually like harem a little better than that but all in all a very nice list.
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