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[Captain_Frisk]

Posting this here because Rinkworks has DQ'd it from competition for not meeting his rules.  I could modify it into something that complies, but I keep thinking about DXV and keeping things simple - and adding complexity to keep in line with Rink's specific rules would be worse for the card.

Scholars
$5 - Action
Discard any number of cards.  +2 cards per card discarded.

Obviously a big money type of card.  With a full hand discard, you are left with 8 cards in hand (same as envoy).  With 3 card discard - you're left with 7 (smithy, library), but with some control.  Discarding 1 or 2 sucks, but in that case you probably already have a good hand.  It's not wharf - but it I think its better than library.  Allows for some really crazy stuff if you can start playing multiples.  My favorite part is how it lets you manage your reshuffle in a manner that other big drawing cards do not.  (Smithy on turn 3 is lightyears better than Smithy on turn 4)

[rrenaud]

Are you sure that isn't insane?  It's pretty easy exp growth.

KC Scholars -> 24 cards in hand?

I mean, you can get some pretty insane stuff with crossroads already, and that has the super strict restriction on doubling only the victory cards.

[jonts26]

Not sure why this is obviously a big money type of card. Seems it would go pretty good in a draw engine as well. With a few of these you could draw your deck pretty easily.

Anyway I like the card, and $5 is probably the right price for it.

[Captain_Frisk]

Are you sure that isn't insane?  It's pretty easy exp growth.

KC Scholars -> 24 cards in hand?

I mean, you can get some pretty insane stuff with crossroads already, and that has the super strict restriction on doubling only the victory cards.

When KC is in play - you're probably talking about total deck draw anyway.

I thought about the craziness - and there's some protections you can put in:  like - set aside any number of cards -> draw -> discard the set aside cards, or discard up to X cards, but then you can't do the crazy stuff. 

Isn't the crazy stuff good?

[jonts26]

Isn't the crazy stuff good?

Crazy and Good are two independent qualities.

Sometimes you like crazy. Sometimes, simple is good.

[Qvist]

I like the card, but I agree with rrenaud, this is still overpowered with big handsizes. Tactician + Scholars for example.
I thought for something similar but didn't submit it.
Your idea and mine mixed would simple be:

Discard any number of cards.
+1 card per card discarded
+2 cards

I don't know what this would cost. Maybe $4?

[Captain_Frisk]

Isn't the crazy stuff good?

Crazy and Good are two independent qualities.

Sometimes you like crazy. Sometimes, simple is good.

The reason why i liked the card so much was because it was simple, and yet it did allow for some crazy stuff if you can get it going in multiples.  I'm not actually big on fan cards in general, but after seeing the entries for Rink's expansion challenge, I realized how much extra design space there really is.  At least 25% of the cards in those contests are playable.

I hope that one day we can see a Dominion: Gamer's Deck on store shelves - like the Agricola ones...

[Captain_Frisk]

I like the card, but I agree with rrenaud, this is still overpowered with big handsizes. Tactician + Scholars for example.
I thought for something similar but didn't submit it.
Your idea and mine mixed would simple be:

Discard any number of cards.
+1 card per card discarded
+2 cards

I don't know what this would cost. Maybe $4?

Ha!  I had almost this exact card in my response to Rink's disqualification.  I put the +2 cards first, and left it at 5.  Ultimately, I felt it was less exciting.  There are plenty of viable variants here. 

In those large handsize games, I don't think this actually ends up being any more crazy than bridge.  There's only so much value you get out of playing multiples.  How big is your deck? 

[eHalcyon]

I like the card, but I agree with rrenaud, this is still overpowered with big handsizes. Tactician + Scholars for example.
I thought for something similar but didn't submit it.
Your idea and mine mixed would simple be:

Discard any number of cards.
+1 card per card discarded
+2 cards

I don't know what this would cost. Maybe $4?

I would put +2 cards first, and +action.  It would be the Vault of Cellar.  But then it would have to be $6 at least, because it would be a Lab+Cellar.  Maybe +2 cards at the end is fine...

[Ozle]

How big is your deck? 

my deck is massive thanks

And I like the +2 cards version, its not as much fun as the original though!

[NoMoreFun]

Cellar turns every card in your hand into a cantrip
Secret chamber turns every card in your hand into a copper
This turns every card in your hand into a laboratory (essentially)

[NoMoreFun]

Also I nearly had this for the competition costing 6 as +1 card, discard at least 1 card and get +2 cards for each card you discard), but I thought it was too broken with tactician or several copies and villages.

[rinkworks]

It does probably need to be $5 or even $6, if only because it's a monster opener.  Turn 3 Scholars:  discard 4 cards, draw 8; now you have most of your deck and a better shot at Gold than any official card will give you (I think).

I agree that crazy isn't automatically a reason to nerf it.  I've often thought that if Bridge and a few others were fan cards, they'd have been confidently shot down by the fan community at large.  But it IS a reason to be cautious:  I'd want to see a lot of playtesting on the thing before I was comfortable with it.  But I think the potential is such that the testing is worth doing.

[rinkworks]

Cellar turns every card in your hand into a cantrip
Secret chamber turns every card in your hand into a copper
This turns every card in your hand into a laboratory (essentially)

I see what you mean, but Labs draw cards live, whereas this draws them all dead.  It's more like turning them into Moats with the ability to play them all.  That's a bit less impressive.  Still.

[eHalcyon]

Cellar turns every card in your hand into a cantrip
Secret chamber turns every card in your hand into a copper
This turns every card in your hand into a laboratory (essentially)

I see what you mean, but Labs draw cards live, whereas this draws them all dead.  It's more like turning them into Moats with the ability to play them all.  That's a bit less impressive.  Still.

They are all labs but for the last one.

[zahlman]

Are you sure that isn't insane?  It's pretty easy exp growth.

KC Scholars -> 24 cards in hand?

18, since you only have 3 more to discard assuming we're talking about starting out the turn this way. But yes, this could get really crazy, and yes it's good for any kind of draw engine too, as long as there are villages or (KC/TR + cantrip) around.

[LastFootnote]

Are you sure that isn't insane?  It's pretty easy exp growth.

KC Scholars -> 24 cards in hand?

18, since you only have 3 more to discard assuming we're talking about starting out the turn this way.

No, 24 is correct. Discard 3 and draw 6. Discard 6 and draw 12. Discard 12 and draw 24.

[zahlman]

D'oh, the action gets iterated, not just the consequence. >_<

[blueblimp]

This card could maybe be nice as-is on isotropic, but IRL I feel it'd cause a bit too much shuffling. How often are you going to draw one of these and not discard 4 cards? Anything worse than a Silver is worth discarding for sure, and if your deck is decent, it's even worth discarding Silvers. So we're talking draws of 6 or 8 cards every time you play this, and there are almost no official cards that cycle so much with just 1 copy. (Sure cards like Minion and Hunting Party can cause a lot of shuffling, but you need to mass them for that. Golem is maybe the exception here?)

[Captain_Frisk]

A lot of the proper play with this card would be not reshuffling I expect.

[Schneau]

It does probably need to be $5 or even $6, if only because it's a monster opener.  Turn 3 Scholars:  discard 4 cards, draw 8; now you have most of your deck and a better shot at Gold than any official card will give you (I think).

Besides Vault, of course.

I think this card has issues but is also fun. Maybe Mathematician would be a good name, since it grows exponentially.

[rinkworks]

It does probably need to be $5 or even $6, if only because it's a monster opener.  Turn 3 Scholars:  discard 4 cards, draw 8; now you have most of your deck and a better shot at Gold than any official card will give you (I think).

Besides Vault, of course.

Ah, you're right.  Maybe that's why Vault gives a benefit to your opponents.

[Morgrim7]

Morgrim draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from his Wharf.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 4 cards and drawing 8 cards.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 8 cards and drawing 16 cards.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 16 cards and drawing 32 cards.
Morgrim plays 16 Coppers, 10 Silvers, 5 Golds, and 3 Platinums.
Morgrim plays a Bank
…Which is worth +$32.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.

Wow.

[Ozle]

Morgrim draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from his Wharf.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 4 cards and drawing 8 cards.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Worker's Village
…Drawing a card and getting +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 8 cards and drawing 16 cards.
Morgrim plays a Scholars
…Discarding 16 cards and drawing 32 cards.
Morgrim plays 16 Coppers, 10 Silvers, 5 Golds, and 3 Platinums.
Morgrim plays a Bank
…Which is worth +$32.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.
Morgrim buys a Colony.

Wow.

Anyone else read that and go "16 Coppers?!"

[rrenaud]

I read it and went to iso and started a solo game with Scholars ;(.