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Author Topic: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards  (Read 34886 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2012, 02:02:09 pm »
0

i may have exaggerated to make my point.
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michaeljb

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2012, 02:34:28 pm »
0

It blows my mind that someone rated Smugglers #2. That means someone actually ranked it above Masquerade or Ambassador, not to mention Menagerie, Warehouse, Tunnel, Swindler, Steward...wow  :o
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 02:42:09 pm »
0

I have the non-terminal trashers Lookout an Loan 5-6 places higher since having that passive trashing works pretty well in a lot of engines. Black Market I think is much too high, skewed by a lot of really high votes (4,6,7). Sometimes it's really important, but a lot of times it's not. It belongs in the same realm as Workshop and Smugglers, which also gain you cards, but out of the supply (Develop also may belong in that group). Shanty Town should at least be in the neighborhood of Village. And I have Oasis and Wishing Well a lot lower. There are definitely times when they are useful, but never that useful.

Regarding Fortune Teller, I do have it that low, which was the biggest drop on my personal list. I may underrate it, but I personally only buy it in Curse games to make the clogged deck feel even worse. I feel like without Curses, there is too great a chance it just Chancellors them. Unlike Rabble, you're not going to want to mass them, so unless you have a way of playing your 1 copy every turn, it doesn't seem like a good enough late-game attack...
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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2012, 03:31:55 pm »
0

I wish I could have saved the results from the survey... as I forgot how I ranked the vast majority of the cards X_X

I am hoping that once all of the lists are revealed, Qvist will release the personal lists of everyone who said it would be ok to make their information public. I too forgot what my ordering is, and would love to compare it to these lists!
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Autumn

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2012, 04:43:46 pm »
0

I'm pretty much completely in agreement with the order so far. One exception: Black Market. I hate that card, but yeah, I was the person who gave it a #6.. I'll admit that in retrospect I may have overrated it by a couple spots, but it really is just game-breaking far too often. Scoop up a curser when there's no good ones on the board? Scoop up a trasher when there's no good ones on the board? And even if you don't scoop up those cards, you can still often get some neat stuff from it, and it's always a terminal silver at absolute least. And then there's the one bit about it I really like (and wish would be included on a better designed card): how allowing you to play treasure before the buy phase synchronises with cards like Menagerie, Watchtower, Library, Tactician etc.
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PerdHapley

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 05:27:47 pm »
0

This list is pretty close to my own (as I recall it) with no crazy outliers yet. Happy to see that Oracle got a bump, I considered it the most inaccurately-ranked card on the last $3 list. It's not top 5 material or anything, but it is much, much better as a $3 attack than Fortune Teller.

I think Black Market is fine where it is. Yeah, sometimes it is utterly awful and a total trap, but obviously other times it is essential. Surprised to see chwhite despise it so much given his love of Cornucopia, since many cards in that set (Fairgrounds, Menagerie, Horn of Plenty) make Black Market much more valuable regardless of its contents. Plus, there is that crazzzzyyy Tactician combo. Putting a card that swingy in roughly the middle of the list feels appropriate to me.

Smugglers' placement seems right to me too. The complaint that it is totally useless late-game when Provinces are being bought seems minor; I mean, look at Sea Hag. I see Smugglers as a good early pick up/defense for player 2 in a lot of games that would typically favor P1, especially games with discard attacks - say, a Militia game where you just can't ever catch up to $6, or a Ghost Ship game where you can sabotage your current under-attack hand without falling too far behind. Lots of other reasons it shouldn't be any lower IMO - Duchy-dancing, Grand Market, Highway/Bridge, etc...
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Ozle

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 07:01:34 pm »
0

Wow, i hate Black Market as well, but I thought others would rate it a lot higher! It seems to be a must buy card for all the people I play against!
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heatthespurs

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2012, 11:38:07 pm »
0

Qvist, just curious, what is the mean/medium of isotropic ranking out of all the submission? Also, what do you think about making an additional list that only include the submission with rank above the mean/medium? I wonder would there be any significant difference from the current list...
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Rhombus

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2012, 02:01:12 am »
0

Qvist - can you clarify exactly how these are weighted?
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brokoli

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 02:29:09 am »
0

About fortune teller : as long as the opponent have victory cards, I'm sure the "chancellor effect" is minor compared to the attack ...
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O

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 03:29:53 am »
0

Shanty Town and Wishing Well are incredibly underrated, Oasis overrated. Wishing well isn't a power 3 but... its actually close to a power 3 cantrip (read; Caravan for 4$.)

sides that list is pretty good.
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iangoth

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 03:52:10 am »
0

I think Oasis is more or less fine where it is. It does well enough in any engine that isn't super thin and it has some pretty strong combos (scrying pool, double tactician, menagerie, tunnel, minion, to name a few). That said, I agree that wishing well is probably better overall.

Lookout is the most overrated on this list in my opinion. My judgment is probably skewed a bit since I don't like the card, but seriously, it trashes one card at a time, does nothing for your current turn, and you can't use it more than a few times before you risk trashing good cards. It's good against sea hag, true, but I'd take just about any other trasher any other time.
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yudantaiteki

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 04:11:59 am »
0

It blows my mind that someone rated Smugglers #2. That means someone actually ranked it above Masquerade or Ambassador, not to mention Menagerie, Warehouse, Tunnel, Swindler, Steward...wow  :o

It's a very attractive card for beginners because you can get free cards with it up to golds.
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Qvist

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 04:14:44 am »
+2

Question: Is Silver also on this list?

Would be fun to see where it sits.

No, it isn't. Base and Prize cards aren't included. I will consider it for the next time.

I wish I could have saved the results from the survey... as I forgot how I ranked the vast majority of the cards X_X

I am hoping that once all of the lists are revealed, Qvist will release the personal lists of everyone who said it would be ok to make their information public. I too forgot what my ordering is, and would love to compare it to these lists!

I'll send you your lists before the next part. If anybody else didn't save it either and wants it, feel free to PM me.

sparky5859 : Not me !!! (In fact, I dont even know if my vote has been taken into account as I didn't finish rank the cards...)

I didn't find any list from you. Was there any problem?

Qvist, just curious, what is the mean/medium of isotropic ranking out of all the submission? Also, what do you think about making an additional list that only include the submission with rank above the mean/medium? I wonder would there be any significant difference from the current list...

I don't have the rank of all of them, but the median/mode from the rest is at ~30. But as I weight the lists, we can pretty sure that the ranking displays a somewhat objective view.

Qvist - can you clarify exactly how these are weighted?

I think I posted it somewhere. Nevermind, it's a simplge weighted average with the level as weight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted_average
But I made an adjustment as there were several of which I didn't know the rank. So I assumed level 0 and I gave everyone +5 to their weight.
So the weight is now level+5.

Death to Sea Hags

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2012, 02:42:46 pm »
0

Well, looking at this list, I realized I mixed up Oasis and Oracle (again).  So Oasis should fall some - my rank was like 6th from bottom - while I put Oracle in the top half.
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rinkworks

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2012, 03:51:31 pm »
+1

Well, Great Hall works with Hoard, Silk Roads, Ironworks, Crossroads, Tribute and to a lesser extent Scrying Pool, maybe that's enough to get it past Woodcutter?
But Woodcutter works well with most engines, which is more common then those cases. Tribute, crossroads, and ironworks aren't good strategies in upon themselves. If you're going with those as a part of an engine, woodcutter will most likely be better.

The problem is that Woodcutter is often a pretty terrible way to get +Buy.  Worker's Village, Hamlet, Market, or Pawn maybe.  If you're restricted to terminals, you'd rather have Bridge or Margrave (for example).  Many of those are more expensive, but if there is a limit on how many terminals your deck can take (which is usual), then you skip Woodcutter and wait until you can get the better alternative.

So Woodcutter is good if there's no better way to get +Buy, and then you're still probably not happy about it.  And on some boards, such as when it means choosing between Woodcutter and Mountebank for your terminal(s), you simply go without.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 04:19:46 pm by rinkworks »
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chwhite

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2012, 05:19:03 pm »
0

This list is pretty close to my own (as I recall it) with no crazy outliers yet. Happy to see that Oracle got a bump, I considered it the most inaccurately-ranked card on the last $3 list. It's not top 5 material or anything, but it is much, much better as a $3 attack than Fortune Teller.

I think Black Market is fine where it is. Yeah, sometimes it is utterly awful and a total trap, but obviously other times it is essential. Surprised to see chwhite despise it so much given his love of Cornucopia, since many cards in that set (Fairgrounds, Menagerie, Horn of Plenty) make Black Market much more valuable regardless of its contents. Plus, there is that crazzzzyyy Tactician combo. Putting a card that swingy in roughly the middle of the list feels appropriate to me.

Smugglers' placement seems right to me too. The complaint that it is totally useless late-game when Provinces are being bought seems minor; I mean, look at Sea Hag. I see Smugglers as a good early pick up/defense for player 2 in a lot of games that would typically favor P1, especially games with discard attacks - say, a Militia game where you just can't ever catch up to $6, or a Ghost Ship game where you can sabotage your current under-attack hand without falling too far behind. Lots of other reasons it shouldn't be any lower IMO - Duchy-dancing, Grand Market, Highway/Bridge, etc...

Yeah, I'm surprised myself that I keep ranking Black Market so low.  It definitely feels like a more important card than that.  But I'm also aware that my play style dovetails particularly well with Black Market, so I need to have some other data than my subjective experience here.  So, I look to the CR stats, which seem to think that Black Market is just about the most overrated card in the game.  Which is not exactly true.  But it is true that while I win Black Market games fairly often, I do even better when I ignore it.  So perhaps my low ranking is an overreaction.  I don't know.  I think it's good that there are people like me willing to rank it low, because there are still too many people who think it's an always-get power card, which is just not true at all.

I'm still really unsure how to rank Oracle.  I ranked it higher than the average last time, and lower than the average this time (it was #14 on my list).  It's way better than the initial impressions, but I think people might be overcorrecting a bit.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 05:20:06 pm by chwhite »
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Rhombus

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2012, 02:04:37 am »
0

When do we get part 2?!
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Qvist

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2012, 03:09:06 am »
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You can't await, huh? I planned to do this today.

Qvist

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2012, 11:38:45 am »
+1

I just updated the first post and will update the $2 cards post with the openings as Councilroom is back online.

The Best $3 Cards - Part 2/2
Link to the win rates on Councilroom
Link 2 to the win rates on Councilroom

#12 ▲9 Oracle (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 13.3 ▲5.03 / Median: 13.5 ▲6.5 / Mode: 10 ▲10 / Standard Deviation: 5.3 ▼0.5
Highest Rank(s): #6 (2x), #7 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #25 (3x)

What a big jump and it's of course a Hinterlands card! It went up 9 ranks with being ranked 5 ranks higher in average. The mode even went up 10 points (it was #10 8 times). It had a high deviation last time already, but after the big change it has an even higher one, the second highest deviation in this list. It was really underestimated and some still do.

A 2 card-drawer with a spy-effect seems so innocent. But sometimes you even prefer it to Smithy which itself is a good $4 card. You can use it very well in Big Money games where the additional attack part comes handy. The problem with the attack is - like Spy - you do little damage with messing up the top cards. But discarding 2 cards to draw the next two helps cycling through your deck in the early game. But you draw still only 2 cards what is still not very good if you use it in an engine. And the luck factor is high and you have to make hard decisions. Do you want to make your opponent discard the Silver and Estate? It really depends on the cards he has in hand, but you don't know that. And if you choose to put them back on top, he may even choose the order, another help for him. On the other side, it's great if you can discard two Golds. So, the attack part is weak, mostly you buy it because you need the +2 cards with the minimized draw luck, which is good in Big Money.
#11 ▲1 Village (Base) Weighted Average: 12.89 ▲1.21 / Median: 13 ▲0.5 / Mode: 13 ▲5 / Standard Deviation: 3.6 ▲1.0
Highest Rank(s): #6 (2x), #7 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #19 (1x), #22 (1x), #23 (1x)

That's the best $3 card from the base set. It was #13 10 times.

Vanilla village is very hard to rank. How do you rank a card that does nothing beside giving an additional action? It's a card that is important for all engines, but is useless if "Big Money" is the dominant strategy. It's no exciting card for sure, when there are all other engine components there you're glad to have it. The low ranks may come from Big Money players and the high ranks from engine builders. Am I right?
#10 ▼2 Watchtower (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 11.27 ▼0.95 / Median: 11 ▼1 / Mode: 11 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 4.0 ▲0.2
Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #3 (1x), #5 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #19 (3x), #21 (1x)

We're in the Top 10 and Watchtower lost 2 ranks. It's in the nowhere with a big lead over Village, but still far behind #9. It's the second card with a second place and it was 11 times on #11.

There are two Reaction cards for $3 and this time Watchtower loses. Watchtower is very versatile what makes it a great card. At first it can draw up to 6 cards what makes it a worse Library and is great in Hamlet, Festival or other decks where the non-terminals draw equal or less cards than you discard. Then it is even an Smithy equivalent. Even if two Watchtowers collide you can use the Reaction part from the second Watchtower for the card you buy. You can put your new card on top of your deck and have it in your hand in the next turn. But Watchtower is even a better defense card. The strongest attacks are Cursing and Discarding Attacks. You can trash the gained Curses immediately and can draw to a more than full hand after discarding. And, with one of the discarding attacks it combos too: Goons / Watchtower is great as you can buy additional Coppers or Curses for VPs and can trash them immediately without clogging up.
#9 =0 Tunnel (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 9.75 ▲0.57 / Median: 9.5 ▼0.5 / Mode: 8 ▲3 / Standard Deviation: 4.5 ▼0.1
Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (1x), #3 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #17 (1x), #24 (1x), #25 (1x)

Tunnel stays on the same rank, but still won a few points. Its deviation is still very high, because it's the first card with a first place but it has still one vote on second last. Its mode went up a little bit with being on #8 10 times.

Tunnels 2VP for only $3 is already very good. You have to pay $2 more for getting one point more. And the Reaction part is really strong. Mostly there is at least one card on the board which can trigger it. It combos great with Vault, Cellar, Inn, Embassy and such. Young Witch / Tunnel is currently the 33rd ▼13 best opening. So Tunnel is one of the rare scenarios when buying a victory card as an opening buy can be really good (beside Island). It's also a great defense card against Discarding Attacks like Militia, Goons or Margrave or even Minion. On boards with many discarding synergies, you mostly can observe a rush for Tunnels. And then not only the Tunnels can deplete, the Gold pile can too. But still it's very situational. If there's no action which can discard, Tunnel is nice in the late game if you miss $5, but no game changer.
#8 Scheme ▲2 (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 8.91 ▲2.08 / Median: 8 ▲3 / Mode: 8 ▲3 / Standard Deviation: 3.6 ▲1.5
Highest Rank(s): #2 (2x), #3 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #17 (2x), #19 (1x)

So basically Scheme and Watchtower switched places. And here's the next Hinterlands card which got a big boost of 2 points. Median and Mode went up 3 points (it was on #8 10 times) too and the agreement on this card is much higher than last time.

Scheme is a cantrip and mostly don't hurt in your deck as long as you don't draw it dead. But how big is the benefit? If you're building an engine around a key card (like Hunting Party), Scheme is very handy as you can be sure to have that card in hand nearly every turn. With +Buy you could even buy more Schemes to add to your engine. Even with a simpler strategy, but a strong attack, Scheme is very nice, as is basically replaces the second copy of that strong attack card and you eliminate the possibility of colliding. As Double Ambassador is already a strong opening, on those boards you really want to open Ambassador/Scheme and you can later use the Scheme to top deck another card if you want to, so it's no surprise that Ambassador/Scheme is on #43 of the best openings. Be aware of Minion, as Minion could completely destroy your top-decking. Scrying Pool + Scheme is good, Golem + Scheme + strong attack is strong and King's Court + Scheme is just crazy. On the other hand, in big money games or with very thin decks, Scheme is not worth a buy and you better buy a Silver.
#7 ▼1 Warehouse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 6.91 ▼0.69 / Median: 7 ▼1  / Mode: 7 ▼3 / Standard Deviation: 2.1 ▲0.5
Highest Rank(s): #2 (2x), #4 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (2x), #12 (1x), #13 (1x)

We're entering the Tier 1 cards now after a big gap of 2 points. Warehouse lost one rank, but has very low deviation with #13 as the worst rank. Its rank isn't surprising as it voted on #7 18 times.

Warehouse is the better Cellar, it is a very useful deck sifter. You can draw 3 cards and discard the most useless ones. It's also a card that works fine with Tunnel and of course with any Attack (Sea Hag / Warehouse is better than Sea Hag / Silver on #98) as it is non-terminal and can draw your terminals more often. It's also great if you want cards together that gain strength when they collide, like Fool's Gold or Treasure Map. Because you have one card less in hand after you played it, it synergizes with "draw up to" cards (JaoT/Warehouse is better than JaoT/Silver on #126) And you can even play it if your hand is good and discard the useless cards on top of your deck (which are coincidental there or from any Attack like Rabble). It loses power on boards with discard attacks, but with cursing attacks it's great. It's a great addition to any deck which isn't a terminal draw Big Money deck.
#6 ▲1 Swindler (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 6.51 ▲0.78 / Median: 6 ▲1 / Mode: 6 ▲3 / Standard Deviation: 3.4 ▲1.2
Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #3 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #11 (4x), #17 (1x), #25 (1x)

As there's now way higher consensus on Swindler, it's now on #6 where it was voted 14 times. It still has two big outliers on #17 and #25.

Swindler is the third $3 Attack and this time it is a good one. It's a great opening buy and can turn the Coppers of the opponents into Curses (Tournament + Swindler and Swindler + Chapel are both at around #100). Later in the game it can turn the new good $5 cards into Duchies. With special cards on the board, the punishing can even be worse, like swindling the only Potion into a Treasure Map or Coppersmith or vice versa, turning the Sea Hag into a Potion. Maybe the outliers are punishing it too, for its high luck-dependant attack. Both players may open Swindler and one can turn the other Swindler into a Chancellor. Or you hit 3 Coppers and turn them into Curses and your opponent hit 3 Estates and turn them into ... Estates. Bad luck! Of course you can decrease bad luck by adding a Spy-like attack, but most of the time it's not worth it. Beware with Peddler on board. Trashing a Province and turning into a Peddler, great. Hitting a Peddler when the Peddlers are out, bad! And beware in the end game. Hitting a Curse when the Curses are out is suboptimal, but hitting a Province and giving your opponent the last Province, can win or lose you the game.
#5 ▼1 Steward (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 6.40 ▼0.84 / Median: 6 =0 / Mode: 6 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 2.5 ▲0.3
Highest Rank(s): #3 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #12 (1x), #14 (1x), #16 (1x)

We're in the Top 5 and it was very close, but Steward has beaten Swindler, with the same Median and Mode (it was 12 times on #6). It loses still a rank and nearly one point too. The deviation decreases a little bit too.

Steward's strength is its flexibility. It's one of the rare trashers that are good openers and still good later in the game, in this case for $2 or 2 cards. It leads to very difficult decisions (Steward and 4 Coppers: Trashing or Gold?) but either decision is strong. And it is also rare for a non-attack card that is terminal to say about: "It is usually a good buy" (even though it's the opening buy) Tournament / Steward is currently the best Steward opening at #40 ▲9.
#4 ▲1 Menagerie (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 5.18 ▲0.5 / Median: 5 =0 / Mode: 4 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 2.8 =0
Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #12 (2x), #19 (1x)

Menagerie is the second card in this list that got first. It got a little boost compared to last time and even went up 1 rank with a solid lead over #5. It has one big outlier, but the consensus is really high with being on #4 18 times.

Menagerie can be very strong, a double-Laboratory, or only a cantrip. Ok, it only hurts when you draw it dead, but it sill needs enablers like cards that can discard (best: non-terminal like Warehouse or Hamlet) or heavy-trashing (to get rid of your Coppers) to use its full strength. Its best use may be to counter Discarding attacks. After a Militia or Goons attacks, just play Menagerie and you have a 5-card-hand again. Of course it's also good if there are many good cards on the board you want to have, or you buy many good cards out of the Black Market deck, so you can maximize the possibilty to have different cards in the deck. In comparism to Warehouse its not always a good addition to your deck, but when it is, it's so good. I think it went up a rank because there are many cards in Hinterlands that let you discard or gain additional (different) cards for enabling your Menagerie. You definitely need luck to enable it, but you get different cards so fast and if you get rid of your Coppers, that's often the case. It isn't that good as opener of course, but still Remake / Menagerie is way better than Remake / Silver and the best Remake + X opening at #142.
#3 =0 Fishing Village (Seaside) Weighted Average: 3.24 ▼0.25 / Median: 3 =0 / Mode: 3 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 1.5 =0
Highest Rank(s): #1 (7x) / Lowest Rank(s): #7 (1x), #8 (1x), #10 (1x)

We're in the Top 3 and there's no doubt about these cards after a jump of nearly 2 points. All 3 cards have very low deviation, so has Fishing Village. It was voted on #3 32 times and was only voted #5 or lower 6 times.

What makes Fishing Village a good village, one of the best in the game? It hasn't 2 of the biggest problems in combination with villages. 1.) A Smithy-Village chain still may lack the money. FV gives money instead of a card. 2.) You draw 2 terminals with no village in hand. FV gives also an additional action in the following turn and therefore a total of 3 actions, minimizing the chances of not being able to play colliding terminals. So, if you're definitely going to build an unstoppable engine, buy as many FVs as you can. FV / Wharf is so much superior than Smithy / Village and FV / Torturer can hurt so much. You only don't want to buy it if you're going BM, because then you have basically a Lighthouse if you don't use the +Actions. Fishing Village / Masquerade is currently the best opening on #55.
#2 =0 Masquerade (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 2.21 ▲0.22 / Median: 2 =0 / Mode: 2 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 1.2 ▲0.3
Highest Rank(s): #1 (16x) / Lowest Rank(s): #5 (4x), #7 (1x)

Masquerade lost again the battle for #1. It got a little boost, but it wasn't enough. It has the lowest deviation of all cards in this list, so no doubt here as it was only voted 7 times out of the Top 3 and 31 times on #2.

At first it seems so harmless (at least to me). Even though it is no attack by definition, most of the times it feels like it is one. I cannot desribe the power of Masquerade better than theory did: "By drawing 2 cards, Masquerade combines solid buying power with its deck-thinning, thus allowing you to improve your deck along two axes at once." It's a hard counter to cursing attacks, so you may even choose not to go for the cursing attack with Masquerade on the board. And if you have a discarding attack and play Masquerade afterwards it's even a harder attack, allowing the (in)famous Masquerade pin. I still have problems to pass the cards in the right order if I play multiple Masquerades per turn :P but that doesn't decrease its power. It dominates nearly all games; it's great for simple Big Money and it's great in engines too and it's a defense against cursing what do you want more? And Tournament / Masquerade is #8 =0 in the best openings list.
#1 =0 Ambassador (Seaside) Weighted Average: 1.63 ▲0.57 / Median: 1 ▲1 / Mode: 1 =0 / Standard Deviation: 1.4 ▲0.5
Highest Rank(s): #1 (41x) / Lowest Rank(s): #6 (2x), #7 (1x)

Ambassador is the best $3 card and this time it wasn't even close, it was only voted 13 times not first or second and more than the half of all of you placed it first. I think it deserves the #1 spot.

Let's start Ambassador war! In some games the ping-pong of Estates of Coppers is so important that you rather risk open Double-Ambassador and colliding two Ambassadors instead of losing the Ambassador war. Some say it's undercosted and the best attack relative to its cost. You can even buy a curse and turn Ambassador into a Curser. If you lose Ambassador war badly, there's no good chance to recover and building a good engine. But beware: Don't forget building up your own economy. Your opponent is flooded with Coppers and Estates. But he can buy good cards too, so don't forget that. But the power is undeniable. Tournament / Ambassador is #3 =0, Caravan / Ambassador is #7 =0 and Spice Merchant / Ambassador #18 in the openings list with many other good Ambassador openings to come (Double-Ambassador is #61 ▼17 and the best double opening).

Robz888

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2012, 12:19:25 pm »
+2

Not too much to argue with here. Village and Scheme are ranked a little better than they deserve, I'd say. I would put Tunnel ahead of Scheme at least. Warehouse/Swindler/Steward are tough to put in a correct order. And the best 4, of course, could be no others.

Nice to see Oracle get the bump it deserves. Pretty good list, this one.
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jsh357

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2012, 12:44:28 pm »
0

Village is definitely too high and Steward is maybe too high (I'd certainly stick Swindler above it), but otherwise I like the top half here for the most part.
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brokoli

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2012, 01:16:09 pm »
0

Village and swindler are really too high (especially swindler which I would rank at least 4 ranks lower). I would put ambassador lower too, because it has so many counters now (silk road, trader and at some point stables, noble brigand, cartographer, jack) .

Otherwise, I'm glad to see menagerie and Oracle higher than last year.
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Powerman

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2012, 01:24:49 pm »
0

While win rates are not necessarily a good indicator of a card's strength, it is interesting to see how they compare to our rankings.

Card      Win Rate with
1 (2)Masquerade   1.05 0.00   
2 (1)Ambassador   1.04 0.00
3 (4)Menagerie      1.03 0.00   
4 (7)Warehouse      1.02 0.00
5 (18)Loan      1.01 0.00   
6 (3)Fishing Village      1.00 0.00   
7 (8)Scheme      1.00 0.00   
8 (6)Swindler      1.00 0.00
9 (5)Steward      0.99 0.00   
10 (21)Great Hall      0.98 0.00   
11 (19)Shanty Town   0.98 0.00   
12 (17)Trade Route   0.98 0.00   
13 (9)Tunnel      0.98 0.00   
14 (16)Wishing Well   0.98 0.00   
15 (13)Lookout      0.97 0.00   
16 (14)Oasis         0.97 0.00   
17 (11)Village      0.97 0.00   
18 (12)Oracle      0.96 0.01   
19 (23)Fortune Teller   0.95 0.00   
20 (15)Black Market   0.94 0.00   
21 (10)Watchtower      0.94 0.00   
22 (25)Develop      0.91 0.00   
23 (24)Woodcutter      0.91 0.00   
24 (20)Smugglers      0.90 0.00
25 (26)Chancellor      0.87 0.01   
26 (22)Workshop      0.86 0.00   

Looks like the big differences are in Loan, Great Hall and Watchtower.
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olneyce

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Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $3 cards
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2012, 01:40:01 pm »
0

All looks pretty reasonable.  I'm not a big fan of Tunnel, but even so that just means I had it a couple slots lower.  I'd certainly put Watchtower higher, and probably Oracle.

I am big on Villages, so I think that's perfectly reasonably placed.

I think Menagerie might be better than Fishing Village, but that's only a minor quibble. 
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