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Author Topic: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline  (Read 37163 times)

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Carline

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Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« on: December 04, 2020, 12:08:48 am »
+10

DOMINION: VENUS, a fan set by Carline

UPDATE: Now I'm using this thread to post the cards I create and I think are interesting, so don't see this set as an expansion in the same sense of official ones, which are smaller, more cohesive and focused in their characteristic mechanics. Maybe I split this set later in small sets. By now, this a work in progress and I'll be very happy with any feedbacks which help me to improve my cards. Thank you!

ORIGINAL TEXT:

For some time, I’ve been participating of the Weekly Design Contest of fan cards. Many thanks to the friends in this Forum who always help me there to improve my cards.

Now I’ll try to compile these cards with some new others and make my own first expansion set.

So here is Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion all with female characters, celebrating women power.

In terms of mechanics, as I don’t have the limitations of an official expansion which has to be published IRL and be able to be played without resources of other expansions, I put a bit of almost everything which Dominion has: Durations, Nights, Reserves, Horses, Exile, Events, Projects, Ways, Landmarks, Overpay, Debt, Tokens, etc.

I also tried some new things like Novice double-face cards, Events which attacks, Ways which play Attacks and Landmarks for each player.

I’ll be very happy with any suggestions you could give me to improve this set. In special, I’m not sure if I chose the best cost for each card.

Any feedbacks will be very welcome. Thank you very much!


  Updated: February, 11, 2021

  Kingdom Cards

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

 
Split Pile 5/5

     


  Guildmaster and Novices Set

  (Novices are double-face cards: Young Saboteur/Young Sorceress, Young Smith/Young Trickster)



     

     


  Spell and Spell Cards

               

  Four Seasons Set



               


  Mats

     

     

     


  Heirlooms

     

     


  Events

                                                  


  Ways

               


Way of the Beast and Beasts set

     

  Beasts (Double face cards)

  Gargoyle/Sphynx

            

  Medusa/Quimera

                      

  She-Wolf/Harpy

              


Quote
BEASTS SETUP
If Way of the Beast is in the game, set aside two of the the Beasts cards (faces which start up when the respective card is in the game: Gargoyle, Medusa and She-Wolf).


  Projects

                         
 

  Land Grant and its Landmarks Set



                                        




« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 11:47:31 pm by Carline »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2020, 12:50:18 am »
+1

Joy and Footbridge are overpowered.

3/4, you buy Joy thrice and buy a Silver, your deck after the first shuffle consist of 7 Coppers and 1 Silver.

You hit 16, buy Footbridge 8 times and then are able to buy 9 Provinces.

Ways that refer to another card are needlessly complicated, just put the text of the other card directly on the Way.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2020, 12:58:49 am »
0

Ways that refer to another card are needlessly complicated, just put the text of the other card directly on the Way.

Thank you! I did this way to make possible to use Reactions against the Attacks. I don't know for sure, but I think otherwise it wouldn't be possible.

Anyway, Way of the Mouse already plays other card.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 01:15:00 am »
0

Joy and Footbridge are overpowered.

3/4, you buy Joy thrice and buy a Silver, your deck after the first shuffle consist of 7 Coppers and 1 Silver.

You hit 16, buy Footbridge 8 times and then are able to buy 9 Provinces.


Removed the +Buy from Joy, nerferd Footbridge and made it doesn't apply to Victories. Hope these changes fix them.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 02:05:26 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 02:58:36 am »
+1

Quite a lot of cards. It will take a while to go through all of them. So, here are just some general comments and a view first remarks on the first couple of cards. I hope you don't mind when I primarily make some suggestions on the wording first. No need to make any changes at this point.

One thing that the majority of people here ignore: What about giving the source/name of the artists? Also, you could easily name the creator of the cards (i.e. you). What about an icon?

Since you want this to be a set, did you looked at the balance/ratios of various standard card functions, e.g. how many cards give + Buy, how many can trash, how many are Village variants etc.?

My first impression (~ the first 10 cards): They look balanced and it seems to be an interesting mix of simple and novel concepts.

Here are some minor comments (mostly about wording/formatting) about the first couple of cards:

Maid
I would arrange the different options in text format, see e.g. Pawn or Squire.

Taverner
Lowercase (small letter): mat.

You have 3 $2-cost cards and all can produce + Buy; this might be a bit inflationary.

Horse Lady
Exile, i.e. "E" in Capital letter; also for other cards with this phrase.

Money Trick
$1 (w/o “+”), then “+1 Buy”
Directly after you finish…; see Royal Carriage
I think this has to be a Reaction?
"…revealing it." No space before full stop; Exile.
At a first glance this seems to be too weak.

Secret Place
Interesting concept.
Could be worded as "+7 Cards".
At the end of this turn, instead of drawing

Blessing
Trash (1st time only)

Blessed Gems
…you’ve trashed…

Emissary
How can it be checked that the passed cards are all copies of the same card?
What happens, for example in a 4-player game, when you have only 2 Coppers? Can the player pass them?


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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2020, 05:09:23 am »
+1


After having a look to the second set of your cards, I have to say (so far): Well done! Overall, most of the cards look nice and interesting.

Guildmaster
Nice concept.
Maybe a bit clearer: “Flip one Novice card over”. Play both
Setup: …text…: not in italic.
Novice cards: (This…Supply.); i.e. parentheses.
Young Trickster: Different order, i.e. +1 Buy +1 Coffer; see Candlestick Maker.

Hidden Pond
I like it.
“…per differently…” or “…for each differently…” (not sure).
Hidden Pond mat.

Sacred Hall
This looks too powerful for a cantrip and with that cost.

Underworld Gate
Trash…
When you do something with the discard pile, you need the phrase “look through your discard pile”, i.e. in this context I would word it:
“Choose one: Look through your discard pile and trash a card from it or from your hand; or gain…”
3rd line: “…per differently…” or “for each differently”
Looks too powerful at first glance. Keep for examples the Zombies, trashed Ruins, or the presence of other Trashers in mind.

Buffon
Looks interesting.
Choose one: Gain…
What happens when the player to the left reveals a Buffon (or another Command card) and the player plays it twice?

Golden Spoils
In most cases, e.g. when I can build a considerably strong engine with other sources for +Buy, I would just get one Golden Spoils, i.e. a Gold for $5 without any penalty.

Gravedigger
“or trash…”
I have long thought about the cost when you asked about it in the Weekly Design Contest. Tentatively, I would say $4, but I am still not sure.
However, maybe my thought process can help you for deciding which cost is the best:

I compared Gravedigger with Graverobber, Rogue and Lurker (first option) and with Night Watchman, Warehouse, Guide and Embassy (second option) especially with respect to their abilities, but also for terminality, costs and choice availability.
I came to the conclusion that Gravedigger’s strength is its non-terminality combined with 2 complementing options. This allows a relatively easy combo of a double-Gravedigger that is always available:
The first Gravedigger trashes a valuable card in play ($5 is guaranteed because of self-trashing) for sifting, cycling and optimizing the next turn. The second copy trashes a junk card from hand (Estates, Copper etc.) to recover the valuable trashed card. The outcome can be compared with Night Watchman, which has a deck inspection range of 5 cards, whereas the double-Gravedigger combo allows a range of 10 cards and can/have to trash a junk card in the process. However, it is also possible that this combo fails, making a single Gravedigger much worse, and a double-Night Watchman would also increase the inspection range. The question is how much is this difference worth in terms of card costs?

Of course, this is only the baseline for Gravedigger. There are scenarios were even a single Gravedigger can perform better, e.g. when combined with Gold-gainers, Lurker, Fortress, but none of them seem to be exceptionally strong.

Anyway, this looks like a very interesting card to me.

Hands of Gold
“If you don’t…”
Again, interesting card.

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2020, 05:32:10 am »
+1

gambit 05, thank you very much, I'm so happy with your attention to me! I appreciate very, very much  your comments. I will read them carefully to answer to them and make the changes in cards.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 05:38:29 am »
+4

I'd consider a different name for "G*psy Camp", on account of the first word of that being a slur.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 06:07:19 am »
0

I'd consider a different name for "G*psy Camp", on account of the first word of that being a slur.

Oh, I really didn't know it. I even didn't know before you pointed that there are two different words in English, one with "y" and one with "i". it's ok to use "Gipsy"? Of course, what I meant to refer is the nomad people which culture I respect so much, without any negative connotations.

Edited: changed to "Circus Camp" by suggestion of gambit05.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 06:36:17 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2020, 06:26:20 am »
+2

I'd consider a different name for "G*psy Camp", on account of the first word of that being a slur.

Oh, really didn't know it. I even didn't know that there are two different words in English, one with "y" and one with "i". it's ok to use "Gipsy"?

No, different spelling, same meaning.

Most "gypsies" belong to the Roma (or Romani). See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

But you if you want to avoid any specific tribe naming, you can just name the card "Circus Camp" or something like that. Seems to fit to the art somehow.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2020, 06:47:21 am »
+1

I'd consider a different name for "G*psy Camp", on account of the first word of that being a slur.

Oh, really didn't know it. I even didn't know that there are two different words in English, one with "y" and one with "i". it's ok to use "Gipsy"?

No, different spelling, same meaning.

Most "gypsies" belong to the Roma (or Romani). See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

But you if you want to avoid any specific tribe naming, you can just name the card "Circus Camp" or something like that. Seems to fit to the art somehow.

Yes, changed to "Circus Camp", thank you!
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2020, 08:16:45 am »
+1

Here my comments on the last set of "Portrait" cards. Please keep in mind, that this is mostly about wording. With so many cards at once, I think it is easier to try to gradually improve them rather than go into deep thinking about each and every card.

Immolater
Wording: “Discard…”

Magic Library
Some wording suggestions: “…, after resolving it,…” or “…, after they finished playing it,…”.
Have you considered the consequences of Black Cat?

Marketplace
“Choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Buy, or +$1.
Each Marketplace after the first one can give (among other options) +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, i.e. a Peddler. The first one can give (among others) +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$2, i.e. a Grand Market.
Overall, this seems to be a bit too strong with all its flexibility. If so, it seems to be difficult to change the cost. Maybe, as a start to nerf the card, skip the second +1 Buy.

Shipmaster
Wording: “…at the start…”
Can get complicated when Duration cards are targeted.

Tavern Nights
Wording: “and any Treasure cards…”
Calling regular (i.e. non-Reserve) Treasure cards may be a bit odd for some people (I don’t mind much). However, when you call a card, if not otherwise stated, it goes to the playing area. I guess, the Treasures then shouldn’t produce $. Is that the intention? If so, you could just discard them from the Tavern mat (see Wine Merchant) for $1 each. On the other hand, if your intention is that they also produce their own $ in the turn they are called, I think you need a different wording, probably avoiding “call” in this context.

Wishing Fountain
Looks okay.

Tale-Teller
This looks a bit expensive for what it does.

Distant Island
Exile (2x).
Do you need “If you did”?

Paladin
No need to reveal the cards (although the wording is shorter), i.e.: “Look at the top 3 cards of…”
Looks otherwise okay.

Amazon
Looks okay.

Overall: I haven’t counted or compared to official expansions, but I have the feeling that there are too many non-terminal cards for a set to be balanced this way; i.e. lots of cantrips, Villages, City variants, plus Night cards and Treasures.

The number of cards providing +Buy seems okay (on the upper end), but that all $2 cost cards have it is a bit unfortunate.
I didn't looked at the number of cards with other categories a set should have (Smithies, trashing, Workshop etc.), but I haven't encountered anything suspiciously wrong.


« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 08:23:22 am by gambit05 »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2020, 09:46:08 am »
+1

Sorry about the Ways, I was wrong and totally missed that the Attack type is relevant!

Circus Camp looks too good. It is Village+Fugitive with the discarding happening before the drawing. That downside is unlikely to compensate for the cheaper price (Fugitive is a $4.5 ) and the Village effect.

Hidden Pond is lovely, especially as you avoided the pitfall of triggering the effect on play ... and the on-trash is a neat Feodum-esque feature (kill a green card to increase the VPs of the other greens).

Sacred Hall is a cantrip VP token thingy in all deck drawing engines. That happens to frequently to justify violating such a fundamental rule.

Shipmaster is brilliant, a Lost City variant that is very likely quite balanced.
Amazon does not excite me, but $6 for a slightly better Lost City (if there are Thrones or Remodelers) is OK.

I love the combine-cards idea of Guildmaster! Easily the most innovative mechanism I have seen in some time.

Cursed Land looks like a more narrow use Desperation, but the lack of a "once per turn" restriction might make it different enough.

Touch of Life is likely too good with Copper. You open X/Touch of Life (or just Touch of Life) and all those Coppers got converted into Peddlers.
This needs a non-Copper restriction or, perhaps more interesting, a Coin cost. Converting Silvers/Golds into Double/Triple Peddlers is extremly good (I play with a $5 Project which was an official outtake that gives you the option of treating Silvers as Peddlers).

Land Grant is a great concept. I'd seriously consider a Coin price though, otherwise it is a free gift for whoever ends the turn with an extra Buy. Sure, Annex has the same problem but it is only 3VPs. Those Landmarks are usually worth more.


I like this set, the quality of the cards is quite high and the female theme is great.
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scolapasta

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2020, 10:52:22 am »
+3

For the attack Ways, it just seems a little overkill to have 3 cards that do the "same", the only difference being which card is set aside / played. What if it was just one Way, and for the set aside part, it says "set aside one of x,y, or z" or give them a type and have it set aside one of those type (then maybe you can even have some other cards that interact with that type?)
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2020, 11:05:30 am »
+1

An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Wishing Fountain seems really bad at 5 next to Laboratory, the trashing seems like it isn't enough to justify the price tag.

Calmness has a confusing wording, I'm not really sure what it does.

Burnish is too good with in the early game, particularly the opening. Maybe it should cost $2.

Season's Grace is pretty terrible next to sinister plot which is also +1 Card every other turn but a lot cheaper and more flexible.

Emissary could also use a clearer wording.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2020, 10:21:39 pm »
0

Joy and Footbridge are overpowered.

3/4, you buy Joy thrice and buy a Silver, your deck after the first shuffle consist of 7 Coppers and 1 Silver.

You hit 16, buy Footbridge 8 times and then are able to buy 9 Provinces.


Removed the +Buy from Joy, nerferd Footbridge and made it doesn't apply to Victories. Hope these changes fix them.

Changed Joy again to cost . It only costs you a buy, so you can do something useful even with very bad hands like "2 Curses , 3 Estates" or "King's Court, Moneylender, 3 Victories".


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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2020, 01:12:13 am »
0

Sorry about the Ways, I was wrong and totally missed that the Attack type is relevant!

Circus Camp looks too good. It is Village+Fugitive with the discarding happening before the drawing. That downside is unlikely to compensate for the cheaper price (Fugitive is a $4.5 ) and the Village effect.

Hidden Pond is lovely, especially as you avoided the pitfall of triggering the effect on play ... and the on-trash is a neat Feodum-esque feature (kill a green card to increase the VPs of the other greens).

Sacred Hall is a cantrip VP token thingy in all deck drawing engines. That happens to frequently to justify violating such a fundamental rule.

Shipmaster is brilliant, a Lost City variant that is very likely quite balanced.
Amazon does not excite me, but $6 for a slightly better Lost City (if there are Thrones or Remodelers) is OK.

I love the combine-cards idea of Guildmaster! Easily the most innovative mechanism I have seen in some time.

Cursed Land looks like a more narrow use Desperation, but the lack of a "once per turn" restriction might make it different enough.

Touch of Life is likely too good with Copper. You open X/Touch of Life (or just Touch of Life) and all those Coppers got converted into Peddlers.
This needs a non-Copper restriction or, perhaps more interesting, a Coin cost. Converting Silvers/Golds into Double/Triple Peddlers is extremly good (I play with a $5 Project which was an official outtake that gives you the option of treating Silvers as Peddlers).

Land Grant is a great concept. I'd seriously consider a Coin price though, otherwise it is a free gift for whoever ends the turn with an extra Buy. Sure, Annex has the same problem but it is only 3VPs. Those Landmarks are usually worth more.

I like this set, the quality of the cards is quite high and the female theme is great.

Thank you very much! I will see about Circus Camp, Sacred Hall and Touch of life.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2020, 01:34:16 am »
+1

Overall: I haven’t counted or compared to official expansions, but I have the feeling that there are too many non-terminal cards for a set to be balanced this way; i.e. lots of cantrips, Villages, City variants, plus Night cards and Treasures.

An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Yes, there's a lack of terminals, in special strong terminal draw. So I'm adding these two cards. Maybe I will also add a terminal gainer.

Feedbacks are welcome, as always.

     

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2020, 04:16:54 am »
+1

You have 3 $2-cost cards and all can produce + Buy; this might be a bit inflationary.

The number of cards providing +Buy seems okay (on the upper end), but that all $2 cost cards have it is a bit unfortunate.

Yes, so I'm adding a cost without + buy.



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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2020, 06:15:16 am »
+1

Comments on a few problematic ones (these are not representative, I think a lot of the ones I'm not commenting on are fine).



With 10$, you can get 6 cards costing 5$. Is this intended? Seems a bit much.



This is basically just way of the squirrel -- not sure the concept is worth the mat. Why not just draw more cards for next turn?



This is pretty busted. It's a support card, so it can't break the game, but it's almost Refuge + village. I think this would be more reasonable at 5$.
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2020, 10:24:00 am »
+1

Overall: I haven’t counted or compared to official expansions, but I have the feeling that there are too many non-terminal cards for a set to be balanced this way; i.e. lots of cantrips, Villages, City variants, plus Night cards and Treasures.

An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Yes, there's a lack of terminals, in special strong terminal draw. So I'm adding these two cards. Maybe I will also add a terminal gainer.

Feedbacks are welcome, as always.

     
You have 3 $2-cost cards and all can produce + Buy; this might be a bit inflationary.

The number of cards providing +Buy seems okay (on the upper end), but that all $2 cost cards have it is a bit unfortunate.

Yes, so I'm adding a cost without + buy.





They all look solid and interesting enough and they shift the ratios away from too many non-terminals, and from only having $2 cost cards giving +Buy. Your set looks really promising.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2020, 12:59:53 pm »
+1

Comments on a few problematic ones (these are not representative, I think a lot of the ones I'm not commenting on are fine).



With 10$, you can get 6 cards costing 5$. Is this intended? Seems a bit much.



This is basically just way of the squirrel -- not sure the concept is worth the mat. Why not just draw more cards for next turn?



This is pretty busted. It's a support card, so it can't break the game, but it's almost Refuge + village. I think this would be more reasonable at 5$.

Thank you, I will see about Circus Camp end Footbridge.

About Secret Place: It's not only 2 cards for your next turn. When you draw 7 cards and put 7 on the mat, you decide from all cards in your hand which ones will be the 7 for next turn and which ones you will keep in hand for this turn. You could choose if you sacrify present turn to get a better next turn, sacrify next turn to boost the present turn or divide your best resources between both.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 01:42:31 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2020, 01:27:55 pm »
+1

Ah, I hadn't read it carefully enough. That's actually a pretty cool effect.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2020, 02:18:23 pm »
0




With 10$, you can get 6 cards costing 5$. Is this intended? Seems a bit much.


With , if you pay to reduce cards cost by , you will have only of rest and could buy only 2 cost cards. The difference from regular buying is only the +Buy.

To buy 6 cost cards you have to spend $18.



Edit: Anyway, I changed it to the following version, so you can get only 3 cost reductions and 3 extra buys per turn.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 02:59:32 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2020, 02:21:17 pm »
+1

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2020, 02:24:04 pm »
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...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2020, 02:31:38 pm »
+1

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2020, 02:44:05 pm »
+1

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.

i think I've found a better version (below). it avoids this Copper thing, which could be a bit confusing, and also doesn't need the "non-Victory" restriction. Thank you!

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2020, 03:48:05 pm »
+1

Nvm, I missed the "at most 2$" cause. Idk why I misread 2 out of 3 cards there, they're not that complicated. I think both versions are fine, but the second one may be an improvement anyway.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2020, 03:53:06 pm »
0

For the attack Ways, it just seems a little overkill to have 3 cards that do the "same", the only difference being which card is set aside / played. What if it was just one Way, and for the set aside part, it says "set aside one of x,y, or z" or give them a type and have it set aside one of those type (then maybe you can even have some other cards that interact with that type?)

Thank you very much! I'm changing them according to your suggestion.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2020, 04:04:00 pm »
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An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Wishing Fountain seems really bad at 5 next to Laboratory, the trashing seems like it isn't enough to justify the price tag.

Calmness has a confusing wording, I'm not really sure what it does.

Burnish is too good with in the early game, particularly the opening. Maybe it should cost $2.

Season's Grace is pretty terrible next to sinister plot which is also +1 Card every other turn but a lot cheaper and more flexible.

Emissary could also use a clearer wording.

Thank you very much! I will review these cards and try to fix the issues.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2020, 07:01:35 pm »
0


Circus Camp looks too good. It is Village+Fugitive with the discarding happening before the drawing. That downside is unlikely to compensate for the cheaper price (Fugitive is a $4.5 ) and the Village effect.



This is pretty busted. It's a support card, so it can't break the game, but it's almost Refuge + village. I think this would be more reasonable at 5$.

Yes, you're right. So I changed it to cost and added a choice. If you discard a card, you get Lost City or a kind of Acting Troupe (which also has a thematic connection with Circus Camp).

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2020, 08:12:48 pm »
0

Sacred Hall
This looks too powerful for a cantrip and with that cost.

Sacred Hall is a cantrip VP token thingy in all deck drawing engines. That happens to frequently to justify violating such a fundamental rule.

Changed it to remove the "+1 Card". This way, I think it can cost .

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2020, 08:16:18 pm »
+2



Choices don't need to be separated into rows.



+2 Cards, trash a card from hand is too strong for even if it's limited to Coppers, IMO. This should probably cost , possibly even because of the gain-a-Copper-to-hand option.



There's a typo: It should say "instead of drawing your next hand." That said, I would prefer this wording:

Quote
+7 Cards
Discard all cards on your Secret Place mat, then put 7 cards from your hand onto your Secret Place mat.

And the mat can say "During Clean-up, if there are any cards here, put them into your hand instead of drawing your next hand."



This allows infinite generation of + without contributing in any way to ending the game, which is a problem.



The first choice should be capitalized: "Trash a card from your hand or discard pile," and the choices don't need to be separated into rows. The problem with having bonuses that care about cards in the trash is that there isn't really much incentive to trash good cards (read: any cards other than Ruins, Curses, Estates, and Curses) with this. Doing so benefits your opponents just as much as you. If not more, since you don't even get the benefit right away.



I actually think this is good enough to cost , or at least definitely too strong for . Let's compare this to Walled Village (a promo card which costs ):
If you don't use both of Walled Village's actions, then you get to topdeck Walled Village so you can get another chance to use it next turn. However, "using both of Walled Village's actions" is determined by the number of cards you have in play, so Walled Village's left-over actions can still get wasted. +1 Villager, however, gives you the +1 Action on-command and cannot be wasted, and you could even naturally draw the same copy of Workers two turns in a row to get two un-wastable actions. Thus Workers is actually extremely close to strictly better than Walled Village (there are edge cases involving Throne Room variants and Ways), and should therefore cost more.



I think this should be worded "you may discard a card to choose one: +2 Cards; or +2 Actions." This both looks nicer and takes up less space.



Choices don't need to be separated into rows.



"Discard any number..." should have the first word in the sentence capitalized. Being able to trash four cards AND get + is incredibly strong, way too strong for . This may even be strong enough to cost .



I assume that "this turn" refers to the opponent's current turn, so you could react with another Magic Library if another opponent plays an Attack card? Either way, I don't think the "you can't play another Magic Library this turn" part of the reaction is necessary. Also, the proper wording (both in Dominion wording and correct grammar) would be "after another player finishes playing an Attack card, you may..." rather than "after resolve it."



Choices should be separated by semicolons, not commas. And this following comment applies to Small Village as well: Is it intentional that Throne Rooming a Marketplace/Small Village results in the bonus effect triggering both times?     



This should say "at the start of your next turn," not in. It should also be limited to non-Durations for tracking purposes (it would be confusing to play a Wharf with this).     



I assume this means to set aside all of the Treasures you have in play. If I'm correct, then it should say "all" instead of "any," and if I'm wrong, then it should say "any number of Treasures you have in play."     



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any case where the overpay effect is effectively different from simply "This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile)," which is much shorter, so you should use the latter wording.



This is too strong for just . Playing the Horse it gains immediately would make it effectively +2 Cards and +2 Actions, which is already a very strong IMO, and Amazon is strictly better than that because you don't need to play the Horse immediately AND it has an overpay effect.

Split Pile 5/5

     

Fruits is too strong to cost just , IMO. I'd say that it wouldn't work at any price if it didn't have the Villager option (too strong for but too weak for ), but the Villager option makes it strong enough to cost .

     

Blessing is not just better than Feast, but it completely outclasses it, at the same price. And like Great Hall, Feast was removed for being boring, not weak. Blessing is almost certainly strong enough to cost .

     

Emissary doesn't have any wording to ensure honesty for two reasons: It doesn't ask the player to prove they don't have enough of what they chose to pass to pass one to each opponent, and passed cards aren't public information, so it doesn't even ask the player to prove that they're passing copies of the same card. It also has the problem of not really functioning properly as an Attack card, as all Attack cards tell opponents to do something, whereas this doesn't. Another big problem it has is that it scales way too much with player count, and is too strong no matter what; with two players, it's a Woodcutter and an Ambassador at once (although it only returns one card instead of up to two), which is clearly WAAAAAYYYYY too strong for just a mere . With three players, it becomes an Ambassador that gives +1 Buy and a whopping ! I would just recommend scrapping this one, in all honesty.



I think this accelerates games way too much. A hand becomes gain a then buy a , a hand becomes gain a and buy a , etc. And unlike Donate, which is also broken, Burnish can almost always be accessed (and wouldn't do anything in the situations where it can't, anyway).     



Pythoness is a weird name for an event, considering that most Events are actually events, not people. Strange naming choice aside, this is way too strong compared to Pursue to just cost more than it. +1 Buy is nothing next to being able to have a potential 9-card hand.



This is basically just swingier, worse Donate. It's harder to afford due to needing to actually have its full cost when you buy it, and doesn't give you any choice in what to trash.

          

          

Medusa should say "Each other player may discard a Curse. If they don't, they gain a Curse." That said, what's the point of having the set aside cards instead of just having their text on their respective Ways?

                                        

County is way too strong. It can easily be worth upwards of 15 just by playing normally in most Kingdoms. It's especially broken since some of these are strictly worse than existing Landmarks.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 08:18:08 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2020, 08:27:25 pm »
+1

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.

i think I've found a better version (below). it avoids this Copper thing, which could be a bit confusing, and also doesn't need the "non-Victory" restriction. Thank you!


Without the victory card restriction, this can be used to pretty quickly empty the estate pile. Not the worst thing, but for , it could be used as "Gain Three estates"

Overall: I haven’t counted or compared to official expansions, but I have the feeling that there are too many non-terminal cards for a set to be balanced this way; i.e. lots of cantrips, Villages, City variants, plus Night cards and Treasures.

An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Yes, there's a lack of terminals, in special strong terminal draw. So I'm adding these two cards. Maybe I will also add a terminal gainer.

Feedbacks are welcome, as always.

     


Crusader could use the "... Action Cards, revealing them, for..." I think there's an official card that uses that wording, but I don't currently remember the card itself.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2020, 08:51:08 pm »
+1

     

Crusader could use the "... Action Cards, revealing them, for..." I think there's an official card that uses that wording, but I don't currently remember the card itself.

Now that you've pointed that out, it has to, actually. Cards are discarded all at once, so you need to be required to reveal the Action cards in order to prove that they're all Action cards. The card you're thinking of is Shepherd, btw.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2020, 09:23:53 pm »
0




This is basically just swingier, worse Donate. It's harder to afford due to needing to actually have its full cost when you buy it, and doesn't give you any choice in what to trash.


Thank you very much, Gubump! Very good comments, I will take them into account to improve the cards.

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 09:33:55 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2020, 09:37:03 pm »
0

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.

i think I've found a better version (below). it avoids this Copper thing, which could be a bit confusing, and also doesn't need the "non-Victory" restriction. Thank you!


Without the victory card restriction, this can be used to pretty quickly empty the estate pile. Not the worst thing, but for , it could be used as "Gain Three estates"

Overall: I haven’t counted or compared to official expansions, but I have the feeling that there are too many non-terminal cards for a set to be balanced this way; i.e. lots of cantrips, Villages, City variants, plus Night cards and Treasures.

An initial note here is that there seems to be an imbalance of terminals, I think there are a couple too many non-terminal actions and not quite enough terminals.

Yes, there's a lack of terminals, in special strong terminal draw. So I'm adding these two cards. Maybe I will also add a terminal gainer.

Feedbacks are welcome, as always.

     


Crusader could use the "... Action Cards, revealing them, for..." I think there's an official card that uses that wording, but I don't currently remember the card itself.

Thank you very much, LittleFish, I will see about these points.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2020, 09:57:14 pm »
+1

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

And as an (unneeded) edge case, Poor House
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2020, 10:15:37 pm »
0

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

And as an (unneeded) edge case, Poor House

Yes, but you may manage to buy your Poor Houses only after trash your Coppers. The same for cost cards.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2020, 10:35:15 pm »
0




Pythoness is a weird name for an event, considering that most Events are actually events, not people. Strange naming choice aside, this is way too strong compared to Pursue to just cost more than it. +1 Buy is nothing next to being able to have a potential 9-card hand.


The "event" I had in mind was "a consult with the Pythoness", but you're right, as the name was only "Pythoness" it is not so good. I will change to "Divination". About card funcionalities and cost comparing to Pursue, I will see about. 
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2020, 10:35:52 pm »
+1

Wanderer looks too strong for $2 because of the trashing option.

Seems like you could easily end up with tons of Horses in your deck with Horse Lady if there are any other Horse gainers. Not sure the best way to change it, or if you don't mind if people get tons of horses in the deck (and exile mat).

Secret Place looks like a recipe for analysis paralysis and too fiddly for what it does. Maybe just say "...Draw 2 cards. Set aside 2 cards from your hand and put them in your hand at the start of next turn." (in addition to the usual 5 cards.) I don't think it needs a mat.
Why do you have it discard the cards from that mat at the beginning? That pretty much cancels the effect of any Secret Place you played earlier in the turn.

I agree with Gubump about Blessing, Emissary, Tale-Teller, and Birth of Venus.

I looked at the first dozen cards so far. The rest of the ones I looked at so far look good, though a few of them seem on the uninteresting side.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 10:38:13 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2020, 10:41:51 pm »
+2

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

I know. The reason it's swingy is because the first player to be able to afford it completely snowballs, for the same reason Donate would be too swingy if it cost instead of . In fact, it originally cost coins, but Donald X changed it because of its swinginess. In other words, I was referring to the swinginess of being able to afford it, not the swinginess of its effect. And the reason I called it a worse Donate is twofold: Donate is easier to afford due to having a debt-cost, and Birth of Venus is strictly worse than Donate due to Donate giving more choice in what you trash, including being able to have the exact same effect as BoV.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 10:43:02 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2020, 10:48:57 pm »
+1

Secret Place looks like a recipe for analysis paralysis and too fiddly for what it does. Maybe just say "...Draw 2 cards. Set aside 2 cards from your hand and put them in your hand at the start of next turn." (in addition to the usual 5 cards.) I don't think it needs a mat.

That's literally just Gear but always needing to set aside 2.

Why do you have it discard the cards from that mat at the beginning? That pretty much cancels the effect of any Secret Place you played earlier in the turn.

I'm pretty sure that's the point.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2020, 10:55:16 pm »
0

Wanderer looks too strong for $2 because of the trashing option.

Seems like you could easily end up with tons of Horses in your deck with Horse Lady if there are any other Horse gainers. Not sure the best way to change it, or if you don't mind if people get tons of horses in the deck (and exile mat).

Secret Place looks like a recipe for analysis paralysis and too fiddly for what it does. Maybe just say "...Draw 2 cards. Set aside 2 cards from your hand and put them in your hand at the start of next turn." (in addition to the usual 5 cards.) I don't think it needs a mat.
Why do you have it discard the cards from that mat at the beginning? That pretty much cancels the effect of any Secret Place you played earlier in the turn.

I agree with Gubump about Blessing, Emissary, Tale-Teller, and Birth of Venus.

I looked at the first dozen cards so far. The rest of the ones I looked at so far look good, though a few of them seem on the uninteresting side.

Thank very much, LibaryAdventurer! I wiil see about these points.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2020, 10:56:05 pm »
0


Why do you have it discard the cards from that mat at the beginning? That pretty much cancels the effect of any Secret Place you played earlier in the turn.

I'm pretty sure that's the point.

Otherwise, you would have 14 cards on the mat.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2020, 11:02:34 pm »
0

          

          

Medusa should say "Each other player may discard a Curse. If they don't, they gain a Curse." That said, what's the point of having the set aside cards instead of just having their text on their respective Ways?

I'm an idiot. I just realized why they have set aside cards; it's so they aren't unblockable attacks.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2020, 11:06:44 pm »
0

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

I know. The reason it's swingy is because the first player to be able to afford it completely snowballs, for the same reason Donate would be too swingy if it cost instead of . In fact, it originally cost coins, but Donald X changed it because of its swinginess. In other words, I was referring to the swinginess of being able to afford it, not the swinginess of its effect. And the reason I called it a worse Donate is twofold: Donate is easier to afford due to having a debt-cost, and Birth of Venus is strictly worse than Donate due to Donate giving more choice in what you trash, including being able to have the exact same effect as BoV.

Thank you for clarifying. it would be good at $5, a cost that is easier to afford?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2020, 11:24:53 pm »
0




Pythoness is a weird name for an event, considering that most Events are actually events, not people. Strange naming choice aside, this is way too strong compared to Pursue to just cost more than it. +1 Buy is nothing next to being able to have a potential 9-card hand.


The "event" I had in mind was "a consult with the Pythoness", but you're right, as the name was only "Pythoness" it is not so good. I will change to "Divination". About card funcionalities and cost comparing to Pursue, I will see about.

Changed it to reveal 3 cards and cost . I hope this makes it more well balanced.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2020, 11:36:35 pm »
+1

By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

I know. The reason it's swingy is because the first player to be able to afford it completely snowballs, for the same reason Donate would be too swingy if it cost instead of . In fact, it originally cost coins, but Donald X changed it because of its swinginess. In other words, I was referring to the swinginess of being able to afford it, not the swinginess of its effect. And the reason I called it a worse Donate is twofold: Donate is easier to afford due to having a debt-cost, and Birth of Venus is strictly worse than Donate due to Donate giving more choice in what you trash, including being able to have the exact same effect as BoV.

Thank you for clarifying. it would be good at $5, a cost that is easier to afford?

I would honestly just scrap it. It's too similar to Donate for my tastes.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2020, 12:00:19 am »
0

Emissary
How can it be checked that the passed cards are all copies of the same card?
What happens, for example in a 4-player game, when you have only 2 Coppers? Can the player pass them?

Emissary could also use a clearer wording.


     

Emissary doesn't have any wording to ensure honesty for two reasons: It doesn't ask the player to prove they don't have enough of what they chose to pass to pass one to each opponent, and passed cards aren't public information, so it doesn't even ask the player to prove that they're passing copies of the same card. It also has the problem of not really functioning properly as an Attack card, as all Attack cards tell opponents to do something, whereas this doesn't. Another big problem it has is that it scales way too much with player count, and is too strong no matter what; with two players, it's a Woodcutter and an Ambassador at once (although it only returns one card instead of up to two), which is clearly WAAAAAYYYYY too strong for just a mere . With three players, it becomes an Ambassador that gives +1 Buy and a whopping ! I would just recommend scrapping this one, in all honesty.


The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 12:45:18 am by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2020, 01:20:58 am »
0




+2 Cards, trash a card from hand is too strong for even if it's limited to Coppers, IMO. This should probably cost , possibly even because of the gain-a-Copper-to-hand option.


Wanderer looks too strong for $2 because of the trashing option.


Changed to +1 Action, +. I hope this way I can keep at .

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2020, 02:34:51 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 02:37:59 am by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2020, 11:32:27 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

You're completely right about these issues and it shows I'm still so far away from the best implementation of the idea. What I'm trying is a trashing junker that is also good for your turn but at the price to make better opponent's next turn.  This idea looks intersting to me and maybe could actually be intersting if I could find a well balanced way to do it. I tried to use pass mechanic, but the challenge with it is that you have to pass the same card to each opponent. i think if I give up this pass part and use something near Ambassador mechanic (return/they gain or trash/they gain) maybe I could find a good balance. Thank you again, I appreciate very much your help to me.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:34:11 am by Carline »
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2020, 11:36:09 am »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

It's tricky to come up with an appropriate cost for all player counts.

I think this card loses its value quite quickly in games at higher player counts, especially given that plenty of other cards in the set give you +1 Buy.  In a 4-player game, you won't be able to play it more than 1-2 times unless you quickly gain more Coppers.  It might work if everyone is buying and playing Emissaries, and I suppose you could try to use your extra buys to fill your deck with Coppers and also combo this with Wanderer, but I'm not sure if that would be an effective strategy.  This would definitely need to be playtested.

I think the cost might be fine for a 3-player game as there would be more balance between the ability to trigger the Ambassador-effect and the payoff.

For a two-player game, I think the cost should be 3.  It's pseudo-trashing/junking ability is weaker than Ambassador's, and can only give you +2.  While you could argue that this is an improved version of Woodcutter and so should cost more, it becomes distinctly worse than Woodcutter once your Coppers run out.

This also becomes harder to play if you have a game with Heirlooms.  Carline, was that part of the intent in originally having an Heirloom for Emissary?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 11:40:02 am by Timinou »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2020, 12:56:55 pm »
0

The idea I had in mind works better with Coppers, so I'm trying a new version limited to Coppers. It's a kind of mix of Ambassador, Moneylender and Coppersmith. I think it's not so strong because the Coppers go to opponent's hands. As it will deal with Coppers, I think it's better without the Heirloom.



Edit: removed Attack type.

It still doesn't handle the case where you don't have that many Coppers. It also doesn't fix the problem that it scales too harshly with the number of players and is too strong. Giving each opponent + is a small price to pay for giving them Coppers and getting a net + per opponent (although it's nowhere near as overpowered as it was before since you can no longer return Estates and it's now all-or-nothing), especially since it's essentially an unblockable attack now. If you insist that it's not too powerful and that the scaling isn't an issue, the "prove you don't have enough Coppers" issue can be fixed by adding "(or reveal you can't)" to the end of the first sentence.

It's tricky to come up with an appropriate cost for all player counts.

I think this card loses its value quite quickly in games at higher player counts, especially given that plenty of other cards in the set give you +1 Buy.  In a 4-player game, you won't be able to play it more than 1-2 times unless you quickly gain more Coppers.  It might work if everyone is buying and playing Emissaries, and I suppose you could try to use your extra buys to fill your deck with Coppers and also combo this with Wanderer, but I'm not sure if that would be an effective strategy.  This would definitely need to be playtested.

I think the cost might be fine for a 3-player game as there would be more balance between the ability to trigger the Ambassador-effect and the payoff.

For a two-player game, I think the cost should be 3.  It's pseudo-trashing/junking ability is weaker than Ambassador's, and can only give you +2.  While you could argue that this is an improved version of Woodcutter and so should cost more, it becomes distinctly worse than Woodcutter once your Coppers run out.

This also becomes harder to play if you have a game with Heirlooms.  Carline, was that part of the intent in originally having an Heirloom for Emissary?

Thank you very much, Timinou! i'm trying a new version (below), according to what I said in the previous post.

The Heirloom was intended to help sometimes to align in next hand the Emissary with the junk. It can be useful by itself sometimes, topdecking  a dead action, for example. So, in this new version, I think I could keep it.

Wording question: it's better to use "If you did,..." or "If you do,..."?


     
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2020, 01:59:51 pm »
0

...does footbridge increase the cost of Coppers?

Good question. It's not intended. Maybe I have to change something on text to avoid this.
I'm not sure it's a problem; might be more of a feature for stuff like Enhance or Farmland, and ignorable the rest of the time.

i think I've found a better version (below). it avoids this Copper thing, which could be a bit confusing, and also doesn't need the "non-Victory" restriction. Thank you!


Without the victory card restriction, this can be used to pretty quickly empty the estate pile. Not the worst thing, but for , it could be used as "Gain Three estates"


In general, if you buy Footbridge more than once, you can trade one of your extra Buys for a free Estate, regardless of what you buy with the other Buys you have.

With any extra Buy source you can buy 2 Estates paying and two Buys, so it's only a Estate more spending a Buy more, which doesn't seems to me to be so strong.

The most radical movement with Footbridge in terms of pile-out Estates is: Pay and a Buy, gain 4 Estates ($1,5 for each VP, not so much different from buying Duchy, which is $1,66.. per VP). If you do it in your last turn, it could be a intersting way to gain some points and end the game. Note that you have to spend your regular Buy or a Buy from other source to do it. If it wouldn't be your last turn, these 4 VP you bought at could clog your deck a lot. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 02:13:15 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2020, 05:46:45 pm »
+2

Money Trick
$1 (w/o “+”), then “+1 Buy”
Directly after you finish…; see Royal Carriage
I think this has to be a Reaction?
"…revealing it." No space before full stop; Exile.
At a first glance this seems to be too weak.

Yes, it has to be a Reaction, changed. I also made the wording fixes, thank you.

Changed Exile option to +, which makes it better, but in general, I don't think it's too weak. Discard it after an Action is the same as play a Peddler and you can discard it after a terminal. You can even manage to draw it again this turn. It also rewards you if already drew your deck, you can discard a Money Trick and draw the same copy, gaining + (exiling it),

The Exile feature is needed to avoid loops. I think is better for this option, it makes the Money Trick exiled be almost equivalent to a Stockpile.   

The +Buy feature is to make you want to play it sometimes instead of discarding.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 06:03:51 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2020, 06:06:30 pm »
+1

Money Trick
$1 (w/o “+”), then “+1 Buy”
Directly after you finish…; see Royal Carriage
I think this has to be a Reaction?
"…revealing it." No space before full stop; Exile.
At a first glance this seems to be too weak.

Yes, it has to be a Reaction, changed. I also made the wording fixes, thank you.

Changed Exile option to +, which makes it better, but in general, I don't think it's too weak. Discard it after an Action is the same as play a Peddler and you can discard it after a terminal. You can even manage to draw it again this turn. It also rewards you if already drew your deck, you can discard it and draw the same copy, gaining + to exile it.

The Exile feature is needed to avoid loops. I think is better for this option, it makes the Money Trick exiled be almost equivalent to a Stockpile.   

The +Buy feature is to make you want to play it sometimes instead of discarding.



Nice. I see your expansion is making progress.
One nit pick: According to Tunnel Edit: Fool's Gold, you should swap the colors. Yellow on top, blue below. Also fits better with the texts parts, i.e.  Treasure (top) is played with yellow background, Reaction text below with blue background.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 06:09:02 pm by gambit05 »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2020, 08:02:22 pm »
0



Split Pile 5/5

     

Fruits is too strong to cost just , IMO. I'd say that it wouldn't work at any price if it didn't have the Villager option (too strong for but too weak for ), but the Villager option makes it strong enough to cost .



Changed Fruits to the version below. Maybe now it's ok at .

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2020, 08:40:52 pm »
0




This is basically just swingier, worse Donate. It's harder to afford due to needing to actually have its full cost when you buy it, and doesn't give you any choice in what to trash.


By now, about Birth of Venus. Maybe it could be improved, but I think it is not swingy, you always trash from all your deck, like Donate. The idea is to trash all your Coppers and Estates at once (and eventually also Shelters, Curses and Ruins), even if sometimes you would trash some $2 cost card along with them.

I know. The reason it's swingy is because the first player to be able to afford it completely snowballs, for the same reason Donate would be too swingy if it cost instead of . In fact, it originally cost coins, but Donald X changed it because of its swinginess. In other words, I was referring to the swinginess of being able to afford it, not the swinginess of its effect. And the reason I called it a worse Donate is twofold: Donate is easier to afford due to having a debt-cost, and Birth of Venus is strictly worse than Donate due to Donate giving more choice in what you trash, including being able to have the exact same effect as BoV.




Thank you for clarifying. it would be good at $5, a cost that is easier to afford?

I would honestly just scrap it. It's too similar to Donate for my tastes.


Changed it to debt cost. Also make it Exiling instead of trashing, which is better for the Estates and eventual cost cards. This feature also make it more different from Donate.


« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:42:55 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2020, 09:14:21 pm »
0


Blessing
Trash (1st time only)

Blessed Gems
…you’ve trashed…



     

Blessing is not just better than Feast, but it completely outclasses it, at the same price. And like Great Hall, Feast was removed for being boring, not weak. Blessing is almost certainly strong enough to cost .


You're right. Changed it to and made it a vanishing Chapel.

     
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2020, 10:16:57 pm »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



Edit:updated to:


« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:57:05 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2020, 10:53:55 pm »
0


Added this card, from present Weekly Contest.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2020, 12:02:18 am »
0




I actually think this is good enough to cost , or at least definitely too strong for . Let's compare this to Walled Village (a promo card which costs ):
If you don't use both of Walled Village's actions, then you get to topdeck Walled Village so you can get another chance to use it next turn. However, "using both of Walled Village's actions" is determined by the number of cards you have in play, so Walled Village's left-over actions can still get wasted. +1 Villager, however, gives you the +1 Action on-command and cannot be wasted, and you could even naturally draw the same copy of Workers two turns in a row to get two un-wastable actions. Thus Workers is actually extremely close to strictly better than Walled Village (there are edge cases involving Throne Room variants and Ways), and should therefore cost more.


You're right about this. However, if it would cost , I think it could be a bit unintersting to buy if there are cheaper Villages.

So, I changed the + Card to + . This way I think it can cost .


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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2020, 02:43:18 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2020, 09:44:33 am »
+1

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 11:10:41 am by Carline »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2020, 11:38:50 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2020, 11:54:07 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending. 
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2020, 01:20:23 pm »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending.
I didn't look close enough at the new card-shaped thing. You can't buy something with the debt though, so on the first turn, you wouldn't be able to use this
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2020, 03:00:20 pm »
0

Note that I haven't read the other replies yet; so don't know if some of this has already been covered.

As a whole set, I feel like there's too many different things. It combines a lot of things from Nocturne as well as Menagerie, but also some Guilds and Renaissance mechanics. Between Overpay, Heirlooms,  Night, Ways, Horses, Villagers, Coffers, VP Tokens, Exile, Events, Split Piles, Reserves, Debt, Projects, Hexes, Landmarks, Pile Tokens, and Durations (to be fair it seems Durations are now a core mechanic)... it just seems like way too many mechanics to fit into one set. Looks like 35 separate Kingdom Piles? That's a lot.

Most of the specific cards seem neat and fine. Seems like a lot of them provide difficult choices about how many to buy, etc.

Wanderer might be simpler though very slightly weaker if it were "choose one" with both options mandatory. It's a bit weird that now it gives you the choice to effectively just trash a Copper from the supply.

Money Trick seems a bit complicated in the reaction wording. I wonder if the "if it's a Money Trick" part is even needed.... was that added just to prevent an infinite loop with discarding a Money Trick into an empty deck? Either way this might be as strong as Peddler/Poacher; which would make it too cheap.

Amazon - I'm not sure if "gain a Horse to your Hand" is significantly different enough from "+2 cards"... of course when combined with things like Horse Lady, it is, and maybe that was the intent. I'm also not sure about Overpay on a card... the official Overpay cards don't exceed . At , you likely aren't going to be using the Overpay very often at all; though it is a nice bonus when you hit .

Fruit Mix wording; Donald is planning to update Treasures to not longer use "When you play this", and you don't have that on Fruits either. And instead of "worth", it should just be "+"l; like an action would be. I believe treasures like Bank will be updated to do that as well.

Bride Wait might be the Feast we should have had all along.

Calmness is a bit weird; it's obvious what the +1 Card Token does, but "whenever you want" is weird timing. It's also rare that you are going to hold onto it very long; so maybe instead during cleanup draw 1 extra card for your next turn.

Birth of Venus might be too similar to Donate.

Way of the Mermaid is strictly better than Pig; not that there are necessarily rules about avoiding strictly better ways, but it makes sense to try and do so.

Way of the Sphinx is probably too good (and strictly better than Pig); Wishing Well already exists as a card, this just makes any action you want into a Wishing Well.

I don't understand Harpy, Medusa, and She-Wolf... why have a separate card? Why not just have the text on the Way? It would be like if Way of the Sphinx said "Play a Wishing Well, leaving it there". *EDIT* Ah, I see from the other comments how it's different because you are playing an Attack Card; which allows for reactions.

Phoenix might be too strong with some one-shots like Pillage.

Land Grant is very cool; I like it a lot. Don't have an opinion about the balance of the Landmarks, and the cost might be too high, but it's a great idea.

Lots of cards I didn't mention; for the most part even though I can understand them easily, I can't tell if they are balanced for their cost. Which is a good thing I think; just means they need playtesting to determine if they're good.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 03:15:47 pm by GendoIkari »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2020, 01:54:54 am »
0

Added this event. It can change first turns, I hope in intersting ways.



I am not sure, but my understanding of the wording is that you can gain any Action card from the Supply taking Debt instead of its $ cost. Is that correct? That seems to be too strong. What about Potion cost cards, e.g. can a player gain a Possession for 6 Debt, ignoring the Potion cost?
Despite that, gaining cards from the Supply is the default and does not have to be specified, i.e. you can delete "from the Supply".


I forgot completely that exists cards with Potion costs! And I missed a kind of Alms clause I want to include. I wiil review it, thank you.

Edit: Updated the event. The idea is to pay an Action card with debt, but the event costs 1 debt itself, so as final result the card costs you $1 more. Is it still too strong? Should I change the event cost to 2 debt Tokens?


the current +buy is almost useless, as unless you have a supply of action , you can't play treasures to pay off the debt, leaving you unable to buy a second thing.

I think the + Buy is needed to buy the next action with debt, as you spent your regular Buy to buy Lending.
I didn't look close enough at the new card-shaped thing. You can't buy something with the debt though, so on the first turn, you wouldn't be able to use this

Yes, I didn't consider this, thank you. I think this new version would work.

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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2020, 02:17:20 am »
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Yes, I didn't consider this, thank you. I think this new version would work.



I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.
I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less. On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2020, 02:46:26 am »
+1

I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less.

It doesn't give you extra Buys, only replaces the Buy you spent to buy it.

Quote
]I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.

Yes, I will fix the wording.

Quote
On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?

I think it's Ok to buy expensive actions with it, you will pay for them anyway and with additional cost. With Transport, you can get any of these actions in turn 2, paying and . And topdecked.

Edited: Fixed the wording. i hope now it's ok.


« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 03:26:27 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2020, 04:06:27 am »
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I also don't think that the combination of a $0 cost Event with +1 Buy and without "Once per turn" works well under certain circumstances, e.g. with cost reduction (e.g. 2 x Bridge), you can empty all piles that cost $2 or less.

It doesn't give you extra Buys, only replaces the Buy you spent to buy it.

Quote
]I haven't followed or read the discussion that lead to this version, but this is confusing. It is not clear for what you pay, i.e. for buying a card is missing.

Yes, I will fix the wording.

Quote
On the other side of the cost spectrum, is your intention that also very expensive Action cards (King's Court, Prince etc.) can be bought?

I think it's Ok to buy expensive actions with it, you will pay for them anyway and with additional cost. With Transport, you can get any of these actions in turn 2, paying and . And topdecked.

Edited: Fixed the wording. i hope now it's ok.



I think you are correct about the "endless" buying power. It looks confusing, but it seems to work the way you've intended.
There is something about the wording I still don't like, but right now I can't get a grip on it. I have to think about it in more depths. Just one little detail: "Treasures" with an uppercase T.

Edit: When I wrote the text above, I stumbled a bit about the "you may pay their cost in $", as this on its own suggests that you just do what you usually do, i.e. paying $ with $. Of course the full sentence says otherwise, but my brain first read it this way and was confused. Maybe slightly better: ...you may, instead of paying their $ cost, take the same amount of Debt plus 1 Debt.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:24:52 am by gambit05 »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2020, 04:40:00 am »
0

Thank you very much GendoIkari, I appreciated very much your comments.

Note that I haven't read the other replies yet; so don't know if some of this has already been covered.

As a whole set, I feel like there's too many different things. It combines a lot of things from Nocturne as well as Menagerie, but also some Guilds and Renaissance mechanics. Between Overpay, Heirlooms,  Night, Ways, Horses, Villagers, Coffers, VP Tokens, Exile, Events, Split Piles, Reserves, Debt, Projects, Hexes, Landmarks, Pile Tokens, and Durations (to be fair it seems Durations are now a core mechanic)... it just seems like way too many mechanics to fit into one set. Looks like 35 separate Kingdom Piles? That's a lot.

Yeah, as I said in original post, It has a bit of almost everything in terms of Mechanics. Of course, it doesn't fit the conditions of an official expansion in this aspect, but I think it's ok for a fan expansion to be unified only by theme. Same for quantity of cards, although maybe some could leave the set if playtests show they are not good enough.

Quote
Wanderer might be simpler though very slightly weaker if it were "choose one" with both options mandatory. It's a bit weird that now it gives you the choice to effectively just trash a Copper from the supply.

I could avoid this effect of trash a Cooper from the Supply by changing order of options. However, I want to keep this possibilty for the few cases you may would want it like with Forager, Treasurer, Priest, Tomb and Sewers or, in the case of this set, Underworld Gate, Gravedigger and the Heirloom Blessed Gems (maybe this effect could be too strong with Tomb, but something similar happens with Lurker and Tomb).

Quote
Money Trick seems a bit complicated in the reaction wording. I wonder if the "if it's a Money Trick" part is even needed.... was that added just to prevent an infinite loop with discarding a Money Trick into an empty deck? Either way this might be as strong as Peddler/Poacher; which would make it too cheap.

Yes, I added the Exile part to prevent loops.

It has some downsides comparing to Peddler. With an initial hand without actions it's only a Pouch. And for each one you discard to obtain Peddler effect you have to play an action before. It's not so easy to chain as Peddler. I don't know for sure about the cost, maybe have to see tests, but seems ok to me at first.

Quote
Amazon - I'm not sure if "gain a Horse to your Hand" is significantly different enough from "+2 cards"... of course when combined with things like Horse Lady, it is, and maybe that was the intent. I'm also not sure about Overpay on a  card... the official Overpay cards don't exceed . At , you likely aren't going to be using the Overpay very often at all; though it is a nice bonus when you hit .

One other difference is that you may not need to use the Horse this turn. When I thought about the overpay, I was thinking exactly in having a god option when hit (or even if it's early to start greening).

Quote
Fruit Mix wording; Donald is planning to update Treasures to not longer use "When you play this", and you don't have that on Fruits either. And instead of "worth", it should just be "+"l; like an action would be. I believe treasures like Bank will be updated to do that as well.

Yes, I will change wording, it would be better.

Quote
Calmness is a bit weird; it's obvious what the +1 Card Token does, but "whenever you want" is weird timing. It's also rare that you are going to hold onto it very long; so maybe instead during cleanup draw 1 extra card for your next turn.

If I have a card whenever I want, probably I would see my hand before take it and would save this option for a situation where is more needed, like a hand without a card to start an engine or a hand with $7 when already start greening.

That's the idea, but maybe it's not the best way to implement it or wording the instructions.

Quote
Birth of Venus might be too similar to Donate.

I wiil see what more I can do about it.

Quote
Phoenix might be too strong with some one-shots like Pillage.

You're right. And also with Lurker. So, I added "from your hand', which prevents both issues.



About the Ways, I'm changing a few things, so I will answer after that. Thank you again for feedbacks.
 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:12:45 am by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2020, 08:59:46 pm »
+1


New versions of three cards. All of them care about what is in the trash. It could lead to instersting interactions between them.

          
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2020, 01:46:13 am »
+1


New versions of three cards. All of them care about what is in the trash. It could lead to instersting interactions between them.

          

Gravedigger
This seems to simpler than the previous versions of Gravedigger. If it is trashing a Copper it doesn’t stay in play, right?
What is the idea behind the option to gain a cheaper (emphasis on cheaper) card from the trash? Is it to help accumulating cards of value in the trash or to keep the number of valuable cards in the trash low? After the initial Estates are gone, the best deal seems to be to have some Silvers in the deck (edge cases excluded). The Silvers can be played and then converted via trashing to +$3 for the next turn. Do you have a Silver gainer in your set?

Sacred Hall
I think, “If you did” is not necessary, because it is self-explanatory that when you haven’t trashed that you don’t have a cost.
…in the trash (below line): “T” in lowercase (see for example Forager).
The VP value may fluctuate significantly in dependency of the presence of different Victory cards in a Kingdom, especially cheap ones, but I think it is okay. Bishop looks stronger as it can trash anything. If Sacred Hall needs to be a bit stronger, you could let it trash anything, but only give VP tokens for trashed Victory cards: “You may trash a card from your hand. If it’s a Victory card, …”.

Underworld Gate
Could be swingy with cards like Ruins and Shelters in the game. On the other hand, self-trashing when a Victory card is gained counteracts to some extent. Could be interesting.
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2020, 01:52:28 am »
+1



About the Ways, I'm changing a few things, so I will answer after that. Thank you again for feedbacks.

This is just about the wording:

...choose one: Put it into your discard pile; or get +$1.
Looks interesting and versatile.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2020, 02:38:51 am »
0


New versions of three cards. All of them care about what is in the trash. It could lead to instersting interactions between them.

          

Gravedigger
This seems to simpler than the previous versions of Gravedigger. If it is trashing a Copper it doesn’t stay in play, right?
What is the idea behind the option to gain a cheaper (emphasis on cheaper) card from the trash? Is it to help accumulating cards of value in the trash or to keep the number of valuable cards in the trash low? After the initial Estates are gone, the best deal seems to be to have some Silvers in the deck (edge cases excluded). The Silvers can be played and then converted via trashing to +$3 for the next turn. Do you have a Silver gainer in your set?

Yes, I tried to make it simpler. Yes, the idea is to not stay in play when trashs a Copper. The idea of gaining a cheaper card is to make thash a more expensive card to be the only way to gain a card from the trash, so you have another motivation to trash cards in play. I changed the bonus to a Salvager next turn, which seems more effective and more easy to  to understand than previous sifting version. I don't have a Silver gaining in the set, it's a good suggestion.

Edit: I thought about this one shot Silver gainer. It also would be a cheap card to gain from trash with Gravedigger.



Quote
Sacred Hall
I think, “If you did” is not necessary, because it is self-explanatory that when you haven’t trashed that you don’t have a cost.
…in the trash (below line): “T” in lowercase (see for example Forager).
The VP value may fluctuate significantly in dependency of the presence of different Victory cards in a Kingdom, especially cheap ones, but I think it is okay. Bishop looks stronger as it can trash anything. If Sacred Hall needs to be a bit stronger, you could let it trash anything, but only give VP tokens for trashed Victory cards: “You may trash a card from your hand. If it’s a Victory card, …”.

Thank you for wording corrections, updated.

I also think it's ok the flutuation with Victories cards in Kingdom, something similar happens to Silk Road and Trade Route. The Action part is a more limited version of Bishop, but it also has the Victory part, so I think it's ok at . And the Action part does exactly what the Victory part needs.



Quote
Underworld Gate
Could be swingy with cards like Ruins and Shelters in the game. On the other hand, self-trashing when a Victory card is gained counteracts to some extent. Could be interesting.

I put the gaining conditioning to trash a new card to have an incentive to do it and to it be better for you than to your opponent. However, it also helps them, which I think counterbalance the bonus and reduce impact of eventual swingness. I think Ruins are inherently swingy (think about when Ruined Market is the only source of +Buy), but is more probable that the first of each goes to different players. About Shelters, you probably will trash them in first turns, when the cards gained are cheap.

I like very much your comments, they always help me a lot, thank you!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 04:38:53 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2020, 03:30:46 pm »
+1


Edit: I thought about this one shot Silver gainer. It also would be a cheap card to gain from trash with Gravedigger.


It fills some gaps in your set, but it looks a bit boring. I am not sure about the cost/balancing, but how about this:
Quote
Gain two Silvers. Trash this or a Silver from your hand.

Alternatively:
Quote
Gain two Silvers. Trash this or a Silver from you have in play.

Another thing: With so many cards and so many updates, it is not easy to figure out, which cards in your original post are actualized and if so, when. For example, I think I suggested to swap colors for Money Trick (yellow/blue; see Fool's Gold). Could you just give the date of the latest update below each card? That would be very helpful.
 
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2020, 05:01:48 pm »
+1


Edit: I thought about this one shot Silver gainer. It also would be a cheap card to gain from trash with Gravedigger.


It fills some gaps in your set, but it looks a bit boring. I am not sure about the cost/balancing, but how about this:
Quote
Gain two Silvers. Trash this or a Silver from your hand.

Alternatively:
Quote
Gain two Silvers. Trash this or a Silver from you have in play.

Another thing: With so many cards and so many updates, it is not easy to figure out, which cards in your original post are actualized and if so, when. For example, I think I suggested to swap colors for Money Trick (yellow/blue; see Fool's Gold). Could you just give the date of the latest update below each card? That would be very helpful.

Thank you very much! I like your suggestions for Tiara. Updated to this, making gaining optional, so you can use it to trash Silvers withou gaining, if you want:




I updated all cards in the last three days, except the Ways and exactly Money Trick (the reason I didn't update it to change its colors yet is that it needs more work, since card Generator puts  a very large $ symbol and I have to edit on Corel).

For many of the cards, I just fixed the wording, following your suggestions. For others, I changed the card according to your comments and from other people.

I'll be very happy if you would comment the new versions. The ones below are the cards for which I changed something besides wording or art from original version.

For Buffoon I only added "non-Command" and for Shipmaster I only added "non-Duration". The rest have more significative changes from original.

For Secret Place, half of instructions are now in the mat. About the Ways, I'm working on changes.


                                                                                                              
                                            

     


And I added three new cards:

               



No one commented about these cards funcionalities, so I presume they are OK as cheap support cards:

                    


For these two landscapes I also didn't have feedbacks up to now:

     
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 08:03:00 pm by Carline »
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2020, 06:34:49 pm »
+1

No one commented about these cards funcionalities, so I presume they are OK as cheap support cards:

                    


For these two landscapes I also didn't have feedbacks up to now:

     
Maid looks fine, but I'm not good at balancing small things, so I'm probably not one to judge. Same with small village and minstrel. 

For Taverner, 2 buys may be too much, but I think that 1 buy would make the card too expensive. Maybe move the cost to 3 and give an additional vanilla bonus on play/on call?


 Valkyries seeks okay


Tie to the ground could be renamed "restrain" to be less of a mouthful. Also, it should be "discards an Action card or reveals a hand without actions"

Alert seems a little weak for a 4 cost project.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2020, 07:01:16 pm »
0

No one commented about these cards funcionalities, so I presume they are OK as cheap support cards:

                    


For these two landscapes I also didn't have feedbacks up to now:

     
Maid looks fine, but I'm not good at balancing small things, so I'm probably not one to judge. Same with small village and minstrel. 

For Taverner, 2 buys may be too much, but I think that 1 buy would make the card too expensive. Maybe move the cost to 3 and give an additional vanilla bonus on play/on call?


 Valkyries seeks okay


Tie to the ground could be renamed "restrain" to be less of a mouthful. Also, it should be "discards an Action card or reveals a hand without actions"

Alert seems a little weak for a 4 cost project.

I think the 2 Buys of Taverner are OK comparing to Squire, which also gives 2 buys and has other options. Taverner only can postpone these 2 buys to some future turn (at the price of not being played again until you use these buys).

I'll see about the landscapes.

Thank you!

Edited: Changed name to "Restrain" and fixed wording.



About Alert, I don't know, I think maybe it's OK. it is like play a Sentry without the trashing part. Comparing to other $4 Projects: Silos is Cellar limited to Coppers, Fair a Market Square.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 10:52:06 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2020, 07:31:22 pm »
0



I think I have to change something more. This way, you can always choose to trash a non-existent Silver from play and play your Silvers after that.

Edit: Changed to the version below. The on gain bonus make it a obvious buy than Silver? No, because are two stop cards instead of one. So, you have to want what it gives you at the cost of the slot in your hand (duplicate a played Silver or trash a played Silver).


« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 10:53:09 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2020, 09:34:13 am »
+1


Wanderer
The double optional combination of Copper gaining/trashing looks a bit odd. A player can in principle gain a Copper to hand and then trash it immediately. Is there a reason to do it this way instead of “Choose one:…”? If yes, what about swapping the two parts (You may trash… You may gain…)?

Secret Place
For sure an interesting mechanic, but difficult to say how that will play out.
Wording (mat): drawing

Workers
(I first thought the order has to be: +1 Action, +$1, +1 Villager (standard Vanilla first), but when I looked to the official cards, I realized that there is an apparent inconsistency between those from Guilds and those from Renaissance, e.g. Candlestick Maker has +1 Coffers after +1 Buy; but for Ducat it is the opposite. This could be on purpose to emphasize with +1 Coffers first that Ducat is a Treasure. Well on the other hand, Patron has +1 Villager before +$2. It's the newer expansion; so it's likely correct on Workers as it is. (I am a bit confused about this).

Emissary/Coin of Honor
Coin of Honor: “When you play this” is not necessary on Treasures anymore: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20551.0 (see 1st line under "Cosmetic changes").
 What is the idea of the self-trashing option for +$1?

Faithful Knight
tokens…

Buffon
Wording …(or shows they can’t). Even better is: …(or reveals they can’t). See e.g. Taxman, Villain, Raider.

Circus Camp
Might be a bit strong. I have a similar card that I will probably never show on the Forum. It gets the +2 Cards if a card costing $2 or more is discarded (it doesn’t have the +1 Buy), though perhaps my card is a bit weak.

Golden Spoils
Alternative wording (the effect might be a bit different in some cases): “If you have a Golden Spoils in play, +$2 and…

Immolater
This one can be really powerful under some circumstances.

Magic Library
Do you need the restriction to react only with one Magic Library? What is the idea behind it?

Marketplace
…or +$1. (full stop at the end).

Amazon
The cost is probably okay, but for the most expensive card of the set, it looks a bit boring.

Fruits/Fruit Mix
Maybe: “If this is worth at least $4, +2 Buys”.
“(counting this)” instead of (including this). See Bank.

Lending
Treasures
Wording suggestion: …this turn, instead of paying their cost in $, you may take…
If you already have Debt, does this card allow buying cards for Debt, i.e. does it override the “no buy when in Debt” rule?

Calmness
token on their decks. ("deck"; singular not plural).

Divination
At the end of this turn,…
Seems to be very expensive for what it does.

Birth of Venus
Looks like a Donate variant. Is it worth to have it in the set?

Season’s Grace
…turn your Journey token over... […] …face up, +2 Cards. See Ranger.
 
Touch of Life
When and how often does this happen after you bought the Project? If only once per game, it might be better if it is an Event.

Nurse
Set one of them aside.
…at the end of this turn. (“after drawing” not needed). See The River’s Gift.

Jugate
How about: …with a total cost of $7.
I cannot figure out when I would do this, maybe near the end to gain a Duchy and an Estate for $6. Is there any other application for this I don’t see? With a cost reducer maybe (which are quite rare)?
Can “Jugate” considered to be an Event (I am talking about the name)?

Minstrel
I don’t think you need "(if any)". Since you reveal the cards, if you don’t have enough Action cards, you just can’t do it. For example: If you reveal only 1 Action card, you put it into your hand. That’s it. No Action card left, the other two cards are discarded.

Valkyries
The Reaction part looks like a bad deal.

Tie to Ground
…card (or reveals they can’t). See e.g. Taxman, Villain, Raider.

Alert
No need to reveal the cards.
“…look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back [on top]* in any order. (~ wording of Sentry).
*I don’t think “on top” is really required. See Night Watchman.
Not the best name for a Project. Also some of the Events have names that do not sound like events.

I wonder whether you use some mechanics (something that happens at the end of this turn; gaining Horses), because you think they are required for a better interaction of the cards of the set, or whether it rather reflects a preference of what you like. It seems that you also have quite a lot of Treasure interaction. I don’t say any of these are bad, it is just an observation and I am curious about it.

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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #86 on: December 15, 2020, 12:21:24 pm »
+1


Wanderer
The double optional combination of Copper gaining/trashing looks a bit odd. A player can in principle gain a Copper to hand and then trash it immediately. Is there a reason to do it this way instead of “Choose one:…”? If yes, what about swapping the two parts (You may trash… You may gain…)?

I answered this question to GendoIkari, see below. It's for edge cases, but if it looks a bit strange, maybe I should swap options.



Wanderer might be simpler though very slightly weaker if it were "choose one" with both options mandatory. It's a bit weird that now it gives you the choice to effectively just trash a Copper from the supply.

I could avoid this effect of trash a Cooper from the Supply by changing order of options. However, I want to keep this possibilty for the few cases you may would want it like with Forager, Treasurer, Priest, Tomb and Sewers or, in the case of this set, Underworld Gate, Gravedigger and the Heirloom Blessed Gems (maybe this effect could be too strong with Tomb, but something similar happens with Lurker and Tomb).


Quote
Emissary/Coin of Honor
Coin of Honor: “When you play this” is not necessary on Treasures anymore: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20551.0 (see 1st line under "Cosmetic changes").
 What is the idea of the self-trashing option for +$1?

The self-trashing is to get rid of Emissary when you don't want it anymore, shomething we would like to see in Moneylender or Ambassador.

Quote
Circus Camp
Might be a bit strong. I have a similar card that I will probably never show on the Forum. It gets the +2 Cards if a card costing $2 or more is discarded (it doesn’t have the +1 Buy), though perhaps my card is a bit weak.

it started as a , without the +buy. Both segura and silverspawn comments were that it was too strong, comparing it to Fugitive. So I changed it to and added the +Buy that was originally in Emissary. I think maybe it's OK this way, it's Worker's Village plus Cellar in one card. As you discard before draw any card, you have to do it from a smaller set of cards, which I think could counterbalance its power.

Quote
Magic Library
Do you need the restriction to react only with one Magic Library? What is the idea behind it?

Without this restriction, you could draw a Magic Library when you play the Magic Library, react with this new Magic Library, draw a new one and at the end play all your Magic Libraries reacting to just one attack. This clause was the way I found to avoid this. 

Quote
Immolater
This one can be really powerful under some circumstances.

Amazon
The cost is probably okay, but for the most expensive card of the set, it looks a bit boring.

I think you're right about both. Maybe I change some things to make Immolater the most expensive card of the set.

Quote
Divination
At the end of this turn,…
Seems to be very expensive for what it does.

It was cheaper, I change due to comments comparing it to Pursue.

Quote
Birth of Venus
Looks like a Donate variant. Is it worth to have it in the set?

I want a kind of reset buttom. I think this version plays different from Donate, you don't have free choice, you save the cards you have in play plus one card, so you have to manage to do it the best way. Thematically, this is the card which refers to set name, which is something I also like.


Quote
Touch of Life
When and how often does this happen after you bought the Project? If only once per game, it might be better if it is an Event.

Yes, maybe it would better be an event, like Inheritance.

Quote
Jugate
How about: …with a total cost of $7.
I cannot figure out when I would do this, maybe near the end to gain a Duchy and an Estate for $6. Is there any other application for this I don’t see? With a cost reducer maybe (which are quite rare)?
Can “Jugate” considered to be an Event (I am talking about the name)?

Besides the end game situation, which was intended and could be decisive, you could gain a and a Actions or a and a when you normally would buy a Gold. If I'm building an engine, there would be many situations I would prefer, for instance, a Village and a Smith than a Gold. In overall effect, It gives you + and +1 Buy, limited to this situation. About names, see below.

Quote
Minstrel
I don’t think you need "(if any)". Since you reveal the cards, if you don’t have enough Action cards, you just can’t do it. For example: If you reveal only 1 Action card, you put it into your hand. That’s it. No Action card left, the other two cards are discarded.

I know, i put this information just to make it clear. Somethink like the "(instead of your discard pile)" parentheses in Nights gained to hand. Maybe it's really not needed.

Quote
Valkyries
The Reaction part looks like a bad deal.

I think when you suffer a handsize Attack like Militia, Ghost Ship or Catapult, it's better to have a hand with Horse plus two cards than Valkyries plus two cards. The former gives you more chance to have a good turn. Anyway, the reaction is optional.

Quote
Alert
No need to reveal the cards.
“…look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back [on top]* in any order. (~ wording of Sentry).
*I don’t think “on top” is really required. See Night Watchman.
Not the best name for a Project. Also some of the Events have names that do not sound like events.

Please tell which names you don't think are OK. I don't know all the subtleties of English language. I know many names for events are deverbal words, but maybe I thought there's more freedom to derive verbs from names. For Projects, I don't know by seeing existing ones what is the criterion for names.

Quote
I wonder whether you use some mechanics (something that happens at the end of this turn; gaining Horses), because you think they are required for a better interaction of the cards of the set, or whether it rather reflects a preference of what you like. It seems that you also have quite a lot of Treasure interaction. I don’t say any of these are bad, it is just an observation and I am curious about it.

I put three cards that deal with Horses to have more interactions between them and justify more the presence of Horse pile when play IRL (for the opposite reason, I'm changing the only card in set that gave hexes in previous version). There's a lot of Nights, but all have a reason to be a Night. Yes, I was doing the cards with mechanics I like, maybe without a more systematic vision. I should deepen this analysis now.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 05:09:53 pm by Carline »
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2020, 12:27:02 pm »
+1

Sorry if you've answered this before, but where do you get your artwork?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2020, 12:41:10 pm »
+1

Sorry if you've answered this before, but where do you get your artwork?

No, I didn't answer it before. For most of them, I write in Google the keyword I want plus "fantasy" and "art". Sometimes I use "painting".

Talking about this:

One thing that the majority of people here ignore: What about giving the source/name of the artists?

I'm intending to credit these wonderful artists in cards text. I didn't do it yet because it's hard sometimes, the source often also doesn't mention the artist. I'll do it as soon as I can. Even if it' is for non-commercial and very limited use, they deserve the mention.

A curiosity. For the split pile, I didn't find an image for Fruit Mix which matches the image I intended to use for Fruits. So, I cartoonized a photo using an image editing software.

          

« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 01:26:22 pm by Carline »
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #89 on: December 15, 2020, 03:16:27 pm »
0

Sorry if you've answered this before, but where do you get your artwork?

No, I didn't answer it before. For most of them, I write in Google the keyword I want plus "fantasy" and "art". Sometimes I use "painting".

I expected something else because that's similar to what I do, and I find it difficult to get good results. Maybe 'fantasy' is the keyword I'm missing.

How much time per card does this take, roughly?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2020, 03:51:12 pm »
+1

Sorry if you've answered this before, but where do you get your artwork?

No, I didn't answer it before. For most of them, I write in Google the keyword I want plus "fantasy" and "art". Sometimes I use "painting".

I expected something else because that's similar to what I do, and I find it difficult to get good results. Maybe 'fantasy' is the keyword I'm missing.

How much time per card does this take, roughly?

Yes, I think "fantasy" helps, as  the most of the art relating to the universe of medieval games are classified as "fantasy art".

The time varies a lot. Sometimes I find a good image in first search, sometimes it takes more than half a hour and a lot of synonyms search. The secret is persistence. Maybe I spend more time than English speakers, because I also have to do additional searchs to find synoyms and compensate my poor vocabulary. 

When I find an image which aesthetic is close to what I want, but somehow it doesn't fits card space or still isn't the ideal image, I search for related images. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 04:28:08 pm by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2020, 04:39:25 pm »
+1


Wanderer
The double optional combination of Copper gaining/trashing looks a bit odd. A player can in principle gain a Copper to hand and then trash it immediately. Is there a reason to do it this way instead of “Choose one:…”? If yes, what about swapping the two parts (You may trash… You may gain…)?

I answered this question to GendoIkari, see below. It's for edge cases, but if it looks a bit strange, maybe I should swap options.



Wanderer might be simpler though very slightly weaker if it were "choose one" with both options mandatory. It's a bit weird that now it gives you the choice to effectively just trash a Copper from the supply.

I could avoid this effect of trash a Cooper from the Supply by changing order of options. However, I want to keep this possibilty for the few cases you may would want it like with Forager, Treasurer, Priest, Tomb and Sewers or, in the case of this set, Underworld Gate, Gravedigger and the Heirloom Blessed Gems (maybe this effect could be too strong with Tomb, but something similar happens with Lurker and Tomb).

Well, it is a $2 cost card. It doesn't have to cover edge cases.


Quote from: Carline
Quote
Emissary/Coin of Honor
Coin of Honor: “When you play this” is not necessary on Treasures anymore: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20551.0 (see 1st line under "Cosmetic changes").
 What is the idea of the self-trashing option for +$1?

The self-trashing is to get rid of Emissary when you don't want it anymore, shomething we would like to see in Moneylender or Ambassador.

There is a reason that some strong cards have a drawback. To make a card interesting does not necessarily mean that you give it all possible strength.


Quote from: Carline
Quote
Divination
At the end of this turn,…
Seems to be very expensive for what it does.

It was cheaper, I change due to comments comparing it to Pursue.

Don't forget you have to invest $4 for a one time event that is not too strong, even if you are lucky and name 2 or 3 of the card you want, which for strong card, is not expected. Just ask yourself under which conditions you would spend $4 for a single event.

Quote from: Carline
Quote
Birth of Venus
Looks like a Donate variant. Is it worth to have it in the set?

I want a kind of reset buttom. I think this version plays different from Donate, you don't have free choice, you save the cards you have in play plus one card, so you have to manage to do it the best way. Thematically, this is the card which refers to set name, which something I also like.

Understandable.


Quote from: Carline
Quote
Valkyries
The Reaction part looks like a bad deal.

I think when you suffer a handsize Attack like Militia, Ghost Ship or Catapult, it's better to have a hand with Horse plus two cards than Valkyries plus two cards. The former gives you more chance to have a good turn. Anyway, the reaction is optional.

How many hand size Attacks does your set have? Aside of that, maybe make the Reaction a bit stronger, for example set it aside and put it back to hand like Horse Trade does, let it cost $4. Just an idea.


Quote from: Carline
Quote
Alert
No need to reveal the cards.
“…look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them and put the rest back [on top]* in any order. (~ wording of Sentry).
*I don’t think “on top” is really required. See Night Watchman.
Not the best name for a Project. Also some of the Events have names that do not sound like events.

Please tell which names you don't think are OK. I don't know all the subtleties of English language. I know many names for events are deverbal words, but maybe I thought there's more freedom to derive verbs from names. For Projects, I don't know by seeing existing ones what is the criterion for names.

You can name them like you want. I just thought finding a proper name would be nice. I don't know the subtleties of English either. I can only tell you how I try to find names for Event and Projects. So, my rule of thumb is simple: When something occurs it is an Event. When something can be build, it is a Project. Please keep in mind that several official Events/Projects don't fit to this, but at least if you use it this way, it will be probably appropriate. If you like, I can later look to the names and will tell you what I think about them.


Quote from: Carline
Quote
I wonder whether you use some mechanics (something that happens at the end of this turn; gaining Horses), because you think they are required for a better interaction of the cards of the set, or whether it rather reflects a preference of what you like. It seems that you also have quite a lot of Treasure interaction. I don’t say any of these are bad, it is just an observation and I am curious about it.

I put three cards that deal with Horses to have more interactions between them and justify more the presence of Horse pile when play IRL (for the opposite reason, I'm changing the only card in set that gave hexes in previous version). There's a lot of Nights, but all have a reason to be a Night. Yes, I was doing the cards with mechanics I like, maybe without a more systematic vision. I should deepen this analysis now.

Don't worry. I was just curious. Nights and Horses are nice mechanics. I consider Night almost as a standard mechanic like Duration. Good that you removed a single card giving Hexes. That would be too much preparation in real life just for one card in the whole set.


Quote from: Carline
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

You are welcome!
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2020, 04:47:12 pm »
+1

One thing that the majority of people here ignore: What about giving the source/name of the artists?

Quote
I'm intending to credit these wonderful artists in cards text. I didn't do it yet because it's hard sometimes, the source often also doesn't mention the artist. I'll do it as soon as I can. Even if it' is for non-commercial and very limited use, they deserve the mention.

Good! Have you tried Google searches for the images? There are also other free web based tools that search for sources of images around. Sometimes, when you really can't find the artist, you could give the source (website).
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2020, 07:46:58 pm »
0

Quote from: Carline
Quote
Valkyries
The Reaction part looks like a bad deal.

I think when you suffer a handsize Attack like Militia, Ghost Ship or Catapult, it's better to have a hand with Horse plus two cards than Valkyries plus two cards. The former gives you more chance to have a good turn. Anyway, the reaction is optional.

How many hand size Attacks does your set have? Aside of that, maybe make the Reaction a bit stronger, for example set it aside and put it back to hand like Horse Trade does, let it cost $4. Just an idea.

There's one handsize attack in the Ways set. Added "or topdeck" to reaction. I think it makes it a bit better and the card can still costs .



Added this card with discard Attack and two other things that would be good to have more on set, a Curser and Action money (I don't mind to have too many cards on set by now, I will playtest to see which of them works well).



Didn't have a Throne Room variant, so I made this. It's ok at $2?



Removed self trashing from Emissary and changed the Heirloom.

          
« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 12:57:45 am by Carline »
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2020, 03:28:02 am »
+1


Nightmare
This looks a bit weak when compared to other $5 cost Cursers. Maybe, add a +1 Buy to it, and remove it from Circus Camp, which seems to be strong enough without it.

Mirror
Looks okay at a first glance.


I just had a look at your Attack Ways.

Format/Wording:
Set aside…
In my understanding of non-Supply card, I would say you don’t need (better: you shouldn’t have) “This is not in the Supply”. All official non-Supply cards that do not form a pile (Heirlooms, Shelters, Zombies) do not have that. All non-Supply cards that form a pile (e.g. Spoils, Horse, Bat, Madman) have it (in parentheses).
Harpy: …with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card. See Soldier.
Medusa: …may discards (singular) a Curse. If they don’t, they gain… See Mountebank.

Concept:
The attacks (especially Harpy) can be really unfunny when Necropolis is in the game. Just imagine, the player who plays Necropolis first hits an opponent with 5 Coppers in their hand. How about restricting the Attacks, e.g.:
“If you have at least one other (Action) card in play, each other player…”

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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2020, 03:54:12 am »
+1

Weak junkers are good. But I think Emissary has no good reason to be voluntary.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2020, 10:01:46 am »
0

Weak junkers are good. But I think Emissary has no good reason to be voluntary.

I made it voluntary to avoid mandatory trashing when played by something like Ghost, Golem, Piazza or Citadel.

I think I nerfed it a bit much and it can give you . You gain and your opponents gain next turn for you to do a kind of Ambassador attack (limited to one card you get rid of).

     
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 10:27:13 am by Carline »
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2020, 12:48:43 pm »
+1

Official cards don't have 'you may' if there's no reason, see this comment. Of course, you don't have to adhere to every design principle of official cards, but some people want to.

I think the card is pretty strong now.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2020, 01:06:43 pm »
+1

For the attack Ways, it just seems a little overkill to have 3 cards that do the "same", the only difference being which card is set aside / played. What if it was just one Way, and for the set aside part, it says "set aside one of x,y, or z" or give them a type and have it set aside one of those type (then maybe you can even have some other cards that interact with that type?)

Way of the Mermaid is strictly better than Pig; not that there are necessarily rules about avoiding strictly better ways, but it makes sense to try and do so.
Way of the Sphinx is probably too good (and strictly better than Pig); Wishing Well already exists as a card, this just makes any action you want into a Wishing Well.


I just had a look at your Attack Ways.

Format/Wording:
Set aside…
In my understanding of non-Supply card, I would say you don’t need (better: you shouldn’t have) “This is not in the Supply”. All official non-Supply cards that do not form a pile (Heirlooms, Shelters, Zombies) do not have that. All non-Supply cards that form a pile (e.g. Spoils, Horse, Bat, Madman) have it (in parentheses).
Harpy: …with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card. See Soldier.
Medusa: …may discards (singular) a Curse. If they don’t, they gain… See Mountebank.

Concept:
The attacks (especially Harpy) can be really unfunny when Necropolis is in the game. Just imagine, the player who plays Necropolis first hits an opponent with 5 Coppers in their hand. How about restricting the Attacks, e.g.:
“If you have at least one other (Action) card in play, each other player…”


Updated the Ways. Following the suggestion of Scolapasta, I made just one card (Way of the Beast) play all the attacks (adding by myself that makes it at random).

Added to the Way of the Beast the clause suggested by gambit05 to avoid play it by Necropolis in first turns. This clause also avoid an overdose of attacks.

With this clause and  the random play, there's less risk in their effect  be too strong. So, I added the attack part attack of an existent card to each Beast, except Sphynx:

- Gargoyle does Spy attack.
- Harpy does Militia attacck.
- Medusa does Witch attack.
- Quimera does Swindler attack.
- She-Wolf does Rabble attack (instead of Werewolf attack to avoid add Hexes to the set and don't have two random picks at the same play)

Sphynx attack is made to fit Sphynx tradition of "solve the riddle or I eat you".

About non-Attack Ways, I changed Way of the Mermaid to not be strictly better than Way of the Pig, as GendoIkari pointed. Though, in terms of game playing, it happens sometimes with Way of the Mouse, i agree it's more elegant if a Way doesn't be strictly better than other by default. Also added Way of the Birdwoman
 

  Ways

               


Way of the Beast and Beasts set

     

                                  
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:52:44 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2020, 01:09:44 pm »
+1

Horse Lady shouldn't have a dividing line.

I'm pretty sure Way of the Birdwoman was tried during testing and didn't make the cut.

Way of the Centaur is too weak. It should be "Gain 2 Horses." That was tested and was fine, but it died for flavor reasons.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #100 on: December 17, 2020, 01:44:59 pm »
0

Horse Lady shouldn't have a dividing line.

I'm pretty sure Way of the Birdwoman was tried during testing and didn't make the cut.

Way of the Centaur is too weak. It should be "Gain 2 Horses." That was tested and was fine, but it died for flavor reasons.

Thank you Lastfootnote!

Horse Lady previous version had a "While this is in play". I forgot to remove the dividing line when I changed it. Updated.

Yes, I read now about the Way which gives Horses in Secret History. Due to te same flavor question, I think the best version for the Way of the Centaur would be "Gain 1 Horse and 1 Villager". Updated to it.

Way of the Birdwoman seems intersting to me. Do you remember why it didn't make the cut?


     

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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #101 on: December 17, 2020, 01:49:21 pm »
+1

Centaur looks like a better Pig now.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2020, 01:56:22 pm »
0

Centaur looks like a better Pig now.

it's not strictly better, as the card drew by Pig goes to your hand.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #103 on: December 17, 2020, 02:00:49 pm »
+1

I did not say it is strictly better. But a Villager is better than an Action and a Horse is roughly similar to drawing a cars.
Pig is already one of the strongest Ways, so I don’t see the appeal of a buffed version.
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2020, 02:11:23 pm »
+1


Some wording:

Way of the Centaur: +1 Villager. Gain a Horse.

Gargoyle: ...card of their deck...
Should be gender neutral. If you want to be funny you could write ...of her deck...

I like the new Way of the Beast idea to put them all together. I especially like the Set up sentence. I always wanted to shuffle beasts face down...
More serious: Do the players know the next Beast, i.e. is the top one face up? From the wording I assume no, but it may be worth to think about this as a set up.
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #105 on: December 17, 2020, 03:56:27 pm »
+1

I did not say it is strictly better. But a Villager is better than an Action and a Horse is roughly similar to drawing a cars.
Pig is already one of the strongest Ways, so I don’t see the appeal of a buffed version.

In terms of game playing, I don't think it's a big problem, as it plays differently. All of these cards can be played by Way of the Mouse and are not only better than Way of the Pig, but strictly better than it (in many cases, so much better):

Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Pawn, Wishing Well, Haven, Pearl Diver, Hamlet, Menagerie, Scheme, Vagrant, Market Square, Sage, Urchin, Caravan Guard, Patrician, Settlers, Chariot Race, Pixie, Secret Cave, Border Guard.

I think it's possible in the case of the Ways and already done by an official card (Way of the Mouse) because of the recomendation of not using more than one Way per game. They will never be seen togheter, so there's no risk of the weaker be useless.

Edit: I also don't think Way of the Centaur is too much strong. You spend a card and an Action now to have a card and an Action in the future. If you save the action for the future, it's terminal.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:39:19 pm by Carline »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #106 on: December 17, 2020, 04:10:19 pm »
0


Gargoyle: ...card of their deck...

Should be gender neutral. If you want to be funny you could write ...of her deck...


I did ctrl-c ctrl-v in Spy text at Wiki and I didn't notice it. Of course, I don't want the cards of this set to use male pronoms. For my taste, I would use "her", but I think it's better be neutral. I will change it. Thank you!

I like the new Way of the Beast idea to put them all together. I especially like the Set up sentence. I always wanted to shuffle beasts face down...
More serious: Do the players know the next Beast, i.e. is the top one face up? From the wording I assume no, but it may be worth to think about this as a set up.

I used the same rule used for Hexes. I think I will keep the next Beast unrevealed, because if it's Medusa and Curses are gone no one would want to play it.

In my understanding of non-Supply card, I would say you don’t need (better: you shouldn’t have) “This is not in the Supply”. All official non-Supply cards that do not form a pile (Heirlooms, Shelters, Zombies) do not have that. All non-Supply cards that form a pile (e.g. Spoils, Horse, Bat, Madman) have it (in parentheses).

So I think I can remove it from Novices also, right?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:58:47 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #107 on: December 17, 2020, 04:27:57 pm »
+1

Way of the Birdwoman seems intersting to me. Do you remember why it didn't make the cut?

I don't, sorry!
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #108 on: December 18, 2020, 05:09:51 am »
+1


Gargoyle: ...card of their deck...

Should be gender neutral. If you want to be funny you could write ...of her deck...


I did ctrl-c ctrl-v in Spy text at Wiki and I didn't notice it. Of course, I don't want the cards of this set to use male pronoms. For my taste, I would use "her", but I think it's better be neutral. I will change it. Thank you!

If you are looking how official cards word certain things, better look for cards from newer expansions and 2nd Editions. Wordings change over time, mostly to avoid edge cases, make the instructions clearer or simpler etc... In the case of "they" vs. "he", it changed sometimes around Adventures or so I think. Since Spy was removed from the Base game, 2nd Edition, it didn't got any changes.

Quote from: Carline
I like the new Way of the Beast idea to put them all together. I especially like the Set up sentence. I always wanted to shuffle beasts face down...
More serious: Do the players know the next Beast, i.e. is the top one face up? From the wording I assume no, but it may be worth to think about this as a set up.

I used the same rule used for Hexes. I think I will keep the next Beast unrevealed, because if it's Medusa and Curses are gone no one would want to play it.[/quotes]

That is a good point. However, it doesn't has to be a bad thing when the Beasts are tamed a bit later in the game. A player could always try to uncover the next Beast if they really want.

Quote from: Carline
In my understanding of non-Supply card, I would say you don’t need (better: you shouldn’t have) “This is not in the Supply”. All official non-Supply cards that do not form a pile (Heirlooms, Shelters, Zombies) do not have that. All non-Supply cards that form a pile (e.g. Spoils, Horse, Bat, Madman) have it (in parentheses).

So I think I can remove it from Novices also, right?

I would say yes. There are no equivalent official cards, but since the Novices do not form a pile, I would label them as I've mentioned above. Maybe LastFootnote is so kind to tell us what he thinks about. He is the expert!

Edit: I forget one thing, wording on Way of the Beast. It should be something like: "If you have another Action card* in play,..." or "If you have at least one other Action card in play,...".

I am not 100% sure whether the first version is unambiguous, but I would say it is clear what it means.

*Some official cards just use Action (without "card"), but I prefer to include "card".
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 05:34:21 am by gambit05 »
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #109 on: December 18, 2020, 05:33:48 am »
+1

I did not say it is strictly better. But a Villager is better than an Action and a Horse is roughly similar to drawing a cars.
Pig is already one of the strongest Ways, so I don’t see the appeal of a buffed version.

In terms of game playing, I don't think it's a big problem, as it plays differently. All of these cards can be played by Way of the Mouse and are not only better than Way of the Pig, but strictly better than it (in many cases, so much better):

Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Pawn, Wishing Well, Haven, Pearl Diver, Hamlet, Menagerie, Scheme, Vagrant, Market Square, Sage, Urchin, Caravan Guard, Patrician, Settlers, Chariot Race, Pixie, Secret Cave, Border Guard.

I think it's possible in the case of the Ways and already done by an official card (Way of the Mouse) because of the recomendation of not using more than one Way per game. They will never be seen togheter, so there's no risk of the weaker be useless.

Edit: I also don't think Way of the Centaur is too much strong. You spend a card and an Action now to have a card and an Action in the future. If you save the action for the future, it's terminal.
You are right that it is not a huge difference and Ways are less sensitive to power differences than Kingdom cards anyway. I nonetheless think that the card is too similar to Pig. I think it would be smarter to do stuff with only Villagers or Horses; that differentiates it more from official Ways.
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gambit05

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #110 on: December 18, 2020, 05:39:53 am »
+2

I did not say it is strictly better. But a Villager is better than an Action and a Horse is roughly similar to drawing a cars.
Pig is already one of the strongest Ways, so I don’t see the appeal of a buffed version.

In terms of game playing, I don't think it's a big problem, as it plays differently. All of these cards can be played by Way of the Mouse and are not only better than Way of the Pig, but strictly better than it (in many cases, so much better):

Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Pawn, Wishing Well, Haven, Pearl Diver, Hamlet, Menagerie, Scheme, Vagrant, Market Square, Sage, Urchin, Caravan Guard, Patrician, Settlers, Chariot Race, Pixie, Secret Cave, Border Guard.

I think it's possible in the case of the Ways and already done by an official card (Way of the Mouse) because of the recomendation of not using more than one Way per game. They will never be seen togheter, so there's no risk of the weaker be useless.

Edit: I also don't think Way of the Centaur is too much strong. You spend a card and an Action now to have a card and an Action in the future. If you save the action for the future, it's terminal.
You are right that it is not a huge difference and Ways are less sensitive to power differences than Kingdom cards anyway. I nonetheless think that the card is too similar to Pig. I think it would be smarter to do stuff with only Villagers or Horses; that differentiates it more from official Ways.

Flavour-wise, a Way of the Centaur giving a Villager and a Horse looks perfect.
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2020, 06:49:21 am »
+1

You are absolutely right, I totally missed the theme!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2020, 02:30:52 pm »
+1

Re: Beasts

1) it seems too similar to Hexes; though I guess it is different than a way that just said "Each other player receives the next Hex" since it can be blocked.

2) since they are not hexes; the "play, leaving it there" is awkward, since I assume you're then supposed to discard it somewhere? Or move it to the bottom of the pile? As written, I'd read this as you don't know the beast until the first time it's used, but then it's that beast for the rest of the game.
3) if someone gets to a point where they have a whole bunch of actions (or villagers) and action cards, can they just devastate other players on a turn? I wonder if some limit of once per turn would be good?
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2020, 10:38:00 pm »
0

Re: Beasts

1) it seems too similar to Hexes; though I guess it is different than a way that just said "Each other player receives the next Hex" since it can be blocked.

2) since they are not hexes; the "play, leaving it there" is awkward, since I assume you're then supposed to discard it somewhere? Or move it to the bottom of the pile? As written, I'd read this as you don't know the beast until the first time it's used, but then it's that beast for the rest of the game.
3) if someone gets to a point where they have a whole bunch of actions (or villagers) and action cards, can they just devastate other players on a turn? I wonder if some limit of once per turn would be good?

Thank you Scolapasta!

I make it now more different from Hexes adding gambit05 idea of revealing the active Beast. To make it possible, I changed Medusa to give Coppers when Curses are gone.

Added a kind of Idol clause to make Beasts be played every other time. I think this way it makes hard to do a big devastation with them.

Stated their rules, so I think there's no need to they be in the cards.


Way of the Beast and Beasts set

     

                                  


Quote
  BEASTS SETUP AND RULES
- If Way of the Beast is in the game, shuffle all the Beasts face down and flip the top Beast face up.
- “Play the next Beast” is to play the top Beast without put it in play area, set it aside and flip the next Beast of the pile face up.
- When all the Beasts are set aside, restart the process.


As the set didn't have a protection, I added this:

« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 08:21:21 pm by Carline »
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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #114 on: December 19, 2020, 12:12:31 pm »
+1

Just to clarify, when you play a Beast, would it be considered to be "in play"?
Also, if I understand correctly, previous Action cards don't need to be played as Ways for the purposes of determining which effect gets triggered by Way of the Beast, right?

I think there needs to be some text somewhere to clarify that the Beasts stay in the supply and don't come into your deck when you play them. 

Way of the Beast should say "If you have an odd number of Actions cards...".

For Gargoyle, I would recommend switching "his" for "their".

My sense is that this is still quite powerful.

Edit: Clarified question
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 04:16:43 pm by Timinou »
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #115 on: December 19, 2020, 08:47:11 pm »
0

Just to clarify, when you play a Beast, would it be considered to be "in play"?
Also, if I understand correctly, previous Action cards don't need to be played as Ways for the purposes of determining which effect gets triggered by Way of the Beast, right?

I think there needs to be some text somewhere to clarify that the Beasts stay in the supply and don't come into your deck when you play them. 

Way of the Beast should say "If you have an odd number of Actions cards...".

For Gargoyle, I would recommend switching "his" for "their".

My sense is that this is still quite powerful.

Edit: Clarified question

Thank you Timinou!

Fixed the two texts.

I put in the post above the setup and rules for Beasts:

Quote
  BEASTS SETUP AND RULES
- If Way of the Beast is in the game, shuffle all the Beasts face down and flip the top Beast face up.
- “Play the next Beast” is to play the top Beast without put it in play area, set it aside and flip the next Beast of the pile face up.
- When all the Beasts are set aside, restart the process.
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scolapasta

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #116 on: December 19, 2020, 09:01:18 pm »
+1

I guess I'm still not as convinced on Beasts being random and not very different from Hexes. (i.e. if the random aspect were important, you could have Way of the Beast say "This turn, this is also an Attack. Each other player receives the next Hex.", so they can be still be reacted to)

That said, I like the idea of the beasts, so would suggest keeping the individual beasts and just have the Way set one aside and then play the set aside one, leaving it there (so more like Way of the Mouse). In this way (pun!), you could also make the specific beasts' attacks either non-stackable or fairly weak (as you wouldn't be able to attack multiple ways (pun again!) and get rid of the even / odd clause.

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Timinou

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #117 on: December 19, 2020, 09:19:56 pm »
+1

Carline, I went through the Action cards now that they have gone through some revisions.  I didn't read through the entire thread, so apologies if this regurgitates or contradicts any feedback you already received from others.  I don't consider myself an expert player, so please keep that in mind when reviewing my comments.

Maid: I think this is quite strong for $2 cost card.  I would consider changing it to $3 or removing one of the choices. 

Mirror: I like your Throne Room variant.  I'm not sure if it should cost $2 or $3.  I think in most cases you would choose to trash Mirror, unless you are using it to trash Ruins (which makes this better than Throne Room in this scenario). 

Faithful Knight: I think there's a "." after the +1VP that doesn't need to be there.

Gravedigger:  Salvager and Graverobber had a baby!  It's beautiful, but I think the wording could be simplified a bit.  I don't think it's necessary to have "If the trashed card costs $1 or more" (you can refer to how it is worded in Salvager).

Nurse: There is a stray "it" after "card" in the third sentence.  Nurse is vulnerable to hand size attacks unlike Duration cards like Gear, Church, and Cargo Ship.  It's not necessarily a flaw, but I'm just curious if that was intentional.

Sacred Hall: This is an interesting one.  I can see this being the type of card that creates a race to buy as many as possible, because once you have enough of them, you can safely trash Provinces and Colonies to net additional VP.

Underworld Gate: I think it's a good choice to only allow you to gain cards if you trash a card that isn't already in the trash.  Otherwise, I think this would run the risk of being too centralizing, as you could potentially have enough unique cards in the trash to grab Provinces or Colonies with this.

Warriors:  It's a clever concept, but I think it may be a bit weak for $4. 

Wishing Fountain: I think this should cost $3 like Wishing Well, or you should consider tweaking it to be able to reveal more than 2 cards to find matches.  You'd have to be quite lucky to have both cards be the same; in most cases you will probably only gain 1 card to your hand.

Blessing: I feel like the net result of this is that you pay $5 now to gain a card costing up to $6 directly to your hand in the future.  The option to trash in nice and there is some synergy with Blessed Gems if play both in the same turn, but it still seems a bit weak overall.

Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester). 

Circus Camp: I think it may be overpriced; it's effectively a slightly better Village.

Golden Spoils: I like how you've combined Spoils with Fool's Gold.  Shouldn't the top corners should say $? instead of $2?, since they can be worth either $2 or $4?

Immolater: I'm not sure about the cost here.  It's essentially a Chapel that gives you some coin.  It could be quite strong early in the game, but will become much weaker over the course of the game, especially in games without cursers or junkers.

Magic Library: What is the rationale behind the wording for the reaction "After another player finishes playing an Attack card...", as opposed to the more standard "When another player plays an Attack card"?

Shipmaster:  If I understand the card correctly, is this essentially like a Scheme except that it gives you one additional action this turn and +1 Card the next?

Paladin: I think this is a bit weak for $6.  It's slightly better than Destrier because of the sifting, but Destrier has a variable cost and is usually expensive at $6.

Guildmaster and Novices
I think this is a very creative and innovative mechanism!  I would love to see you explore this design space more. 
Young Saboteur: Typo ("trashes" not "trashs")

I haven't carefully reviewed the Events, Projects, and Ways (other than Way of the Beast) yet, but will try to do so when I have a chance.

Overall, I think the set looks quite good.  I haven't really paid much attention to how all the cards work together, since there are quite a lot of them.  There are some very intriguing concepts like the Secret Place mat and Hidden Pond mat. 




 
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Carline

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #118 on: December 19, 2020, 11:47:35 pm »
0


Maid: I think this is quite strong for $2 cost card.  I would consider changing it to $3 or removing one of the choices.
 



I think it's OK. It's the female version of Pawn. Both give you two vanilla bonus (different for Pawn, same for Maid). All the things Maid could do are similar or weaker than what a cost card does - 2 Cards (Moat), 2 Actions (Necropolis), 2 Buys (less than a Squire), (less than a Duchess).

Quote
Mirror: I like your Throne Room variant.  I'm not sure if it should cost $2 or $3.  I think in most cases you would choose to trash Mirror, unless you are using it to trash Ruins (which makes this better than Throne Room in this scenario). 



I think it's also good to trash actions you won't use anymore, like Moneylender. I think it's OK at .

Quote
Faithful Knight: I think there's a "." after the +1VP that doesn't need to be there.



This "." is the way I found to make Card Generator put bold font in the "+1" before Victory symbol. In previous version, I deleted the "." in Photoshop. This last time I forgot it. Fixed.

Quote
Gravedigger:  Salvager and Graverobber had a baby!  It's beautiful, but I think the wording could be simplified a bit.  I don't think it's necessary to have "If the trashed card costs $1 or more" (you can refer to how it is worded in Salvager).



I put this clause for it doesn't stay unnecessarily next turn when you trash Coppers with it.

Quote
Nurse: There is a stray "it" after "card" in the third sentence.  Nurse is vulnerable to hand size attacks unlike Duration cards like Gear, Church, and Cargo Ship.  It's not necessarily a flaw, but I'm just curious if that was intentional.



When I made Nurse I had in mind Save and Doctor. I put the reveal top 3 from Doctor and a card at end of turn like Save. Like save, it is not immune to discard attacks. It's intended. I didn't want it to stay two turns each time to do its effect. That "it" came when I copied text from Save. Fixed.

Quote
Warriors:  It's a clever concept, but I think it may be a bit weak for $4.



I initially thought to put it at , but it's stackable and could give you a lot of +buys, so I think maybe it' OK at . I don't know for sure.

Quote
Wishing Fountain: I think this should cost $3 like Wishing Well, or you should consider tweaking it to be able to reveal more than 2 cards to find matches.  You'd have to be quite lucky to have both cards be the same; in most cases you will probably only gain 1 card to your hand.



Did you see it cares about card types and not card names?

Quote
Blessing: I feel like the net result of this is that you pay $5 now to gain a card costing up to $6 directly to your hand in the future.  The option to trash in nice and there is some synergy with Blessed Gems if play both in the same turn, but it still seems a bit weak overall.



I don't think this version is weak, it's vanishing Chapel plus a kind of Feast.

Quote
Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Quote
Circus Camp: I think it may be overpriced; it's effectively a slightly better Village.



Other people think it's almost too strong, so i think maybe it's OK.

Quote
Golden Spoils: I like how you've combined Spoils with Fool's Gold.  Shouldn't the top corners should say $? instead of $2?, since they can be worth either $2 or $4?



Yes, changed.

Quote
Immolater: I'm not sure about the cost here.  It's essentially a Chapel that gives you some coin.  It could be quite strong early in the game, but will become much weaker over the course of the game, especially in games without cursers or junkers.



I think maybe it's a card which cost is hard to evaluate. Some comments are that it should cost more, even .

Quote
Magic Library: What is the rationale behind the wording for the reaction "After another player finishes playing an Attack card...", as opposed to the more standard "When another player plays an Attack card"?



It changes the moment you do the Reaction. if you suffer a discard attack, first you would discard, after you would react and have 5 cards again.

Quote
Shipmaster:  If I understand the card correctly, is this essentially like a Scheme except that it gives you one additional action this turn and +1 Card the next?



Global effect is like play Village + Caravan + Scheme.

Quote
Paladin: I think this is a bit weak for $6.  It's slightly better than Destrier because of the sifting, but Destrier has a variable cost and is usually expensive at $6.



The comparison has to be not with Destrier, but with Laboratory, which has a fixed cost of to do the same of Destrier. Comparing to Laboratory, Paladin is OK at .

Quote
Guildmaster and Novices
I think this is a very creative and innovative mechanism!  I would love to see you explore this design space more. 
Young Saboteur: Typo ("trashes" not "trashs")

               

Thank you. Fixed text. Also removed "this is not in the Supply" from Novices. I think it's not needed, as they are permanently set aside.

Quote
I haven't carefully reviewed the Events, Projects, and Ways (other than Way of the Beast) yet, but will try to do so when I have a chance.

I'll be very happy to see your comments.

Quote
Overall, I think the set looks quite good.  I haven't really paid much attention to how all the cards work together, since there are quite a lot of them.  There are some very intriguing concepts like the Secret Place mat and Hidden Pond mat. 

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, TIMINOU!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 12:02:58 am by Carline »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #119 on: December 20, 2020, 12:01:42 am »
+1

Magic Library: What is the rationale behind the wording for the reaction "After another player finishes playing an Attack card...", as opposed to the more standard "When another player plays an Attack card"?

The wording Magic Library has makes it trigger after the Attack takes effect, whereas the standard wording would make it trigger before. Magic Library's wording makes it a better defense against e.g. Militia-class attacks.

Paladin: I think this is a bit weak for $6.  It's slightly better than Destrier because of the sifting, but Destrier has a variable cost and is usually expensive at $6.

I think you're underestimating it. It's strictly better than a Laboratory (Laboratory is just draw 2, Paladin is draw best 2 out of 3), so it has to cost at least . And best 2 out of 3 is actually quite a bit better than random 2 out of 2. Laboratory is already a high-tier . Laboratory's not a top-tier or unbalanced by any means, but if anything, Paladin is actually too good, imho.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Here's my response to Carline's most recent comments:



I think it's OK. It's the female version of Pawn. Both give you two vanilla bonus (different for Pawn, same for Maid). All the things Maid could do are similar or weaker than what a cost card does - 2 Cards (Moat), 2 Actions (Necropolis), 2 Buys (less than a Squire), (less than a Duchess).

I think Timinou is right, actually. Remember that the versatility is a BIG deal. Let's analyze the options that Pawn has:
+1 Card, +1 Action: Useless cantrip. Can't actually exist by itself, so I'll call it a effect.
+1 Card, +1 Buy: +1 Card and +1 Buy aren't all that much better combined than by themselves. And that's because the strength of +Cards and +Buys are very highly dependent on what else the card does; more so than other vanilla effects. I'd probably call this a effect; it would be reasonable for an Attack card to give out a card with this effect.
+1 Card, +: +Cards are generally better than +, so this is between +2 Cards and +. Probably a effect.
+1 Action, +1 Buy: See my comment on +1 Card, +1 Buy. Another effect.
+1 Buy, +: Strictly worse than even a terminal Candlestick Maker, and strictly worse than Herbalist, which is already a bottom-tier -cost. Probably a effect.
As you can see, most of the effects that Pawn can give are junk-level bad, and the rest are Scout-level. Maid, on the other hand, has some effects that would be reasonable to pay for without the versatility. I'd say the Maid's strictly-better-than-+2 Cards-ness is superior to Moat's, and that Maid should probably cost . Likewise, Maid's strictly-better-than-+-ness is superior to Duchess's. In fact, I'd argue that Duchess is actually worse than a pure +, as your opponents didn't have to spend a buy and then later a card slot and an action to get the self-spy effect. Giving an effect to every player is generally worse than not getting it at all for this reason.



I put this clause for it doesn't stay unnecessarily next turn when you trash Coppers with it.

It doesn't need that clause to avoid staying out unnecessarily. The official rule for Durations is that "a Duration is not discarded from play until the Clean-up phase of the last turn on which it does something," and getting + doesn't count as "doing something." Same reason Research doesn't stay in play when you trash a Copper with it (putting zero set aside cards into your hand doesn't count as "doing something").



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

Quote
Warriors:  It's a clever concept, but I think it may be a bit weak for $4.



I initially thought to put it at , but it's stackable and could give you a lot of +buys, so I think maybe it' OK at . I don't know for sure.

You play Dominion very differently from how I do if you don't think that getting upwards of 4 Buys is needlessly excessive most of the time. The excessive amount of +Buys you can get usually doesn't make up for the fact that it's more expensive than Village and doesn't draw. Because of cards like Villa and Cavalry, the fact that the conversion is mandatory can even be detrimental in some instances.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 12:37:58 am by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #120 on: December 20, 2020, 01:50:01 am »
0


EDIT: Ninja'd. Here's my response to Carline's most recent comments:



I think it's OK. It's the female version of Pawn. Both give you two vanilla bonus (different for Pawn, same for Maid). All the things Maid could do are similar or weaker than what a cost card does - 2 Cards (Moat), 2 Actions (Necropolis), 2 Buys (less than a Squire), (less than a Duchess).

I think Timinou is right, actually. Remember that the versatility is a BIG deal. Let's analyze the options that Pawn has:
+1 Card, +1 Action: Useless cantrip. Can't actually exist by itself, so I'll call it a effect.
+1 Card, +1 Buy: +1 Card and +1 Buy aren't all that much better combined than by themselves. And that's because the strength of +Cards and +Buys are very highly dependent on what else the card does; more so than other vanilla effects. I'd probably call this a effect; it would be reasonable for an Attack card to give out a card with this effect.
+1 Card, +: +Cards are generally better than +, so this is between +2 Cards and +. Probably a effect.
+1 Action, +1 Buy: See my comment on +1 Card, +1 Buy. Another effect.
+1 Buy, +: Strictly worse than even a terminal Candlestick Maker, and strictly worse than Herbalist, which is already a bottom-tier -cost. Probably a effect.
As you can see, most of the effects that Pawn can give are junk-level bad, and the rest are Scout-level. Maid, on the other hand, has some effects that would be reasonable to pay for without the versatility. I'd say the Maid's strictly-better-than-+2 Cards-ness is superior to Moat's, and that Maid should probably cost . Likewise, Maid's strictly-better-than-+-ness is superior to Duchess's. In fact, I'd argue that Duchess is actually worse than a pure +, as your opponents didn't have to spend a buy and then later a card slot and an action to get the self-spy effect. Giving an effect to every player is generally worse than not getting it at all for this reason.

Yes, you're both right. Changed. Thematically, happy to make make more valued the Maid's job.



Quote


I put this clause for it doesn't stay unnecessarily next turn when you trash Coppers with it.

It doesn't need that clause to avoid staying out unnecessarily. The official rule for Durations is that "a Duration is not discarded from play until the Clean-up phase of the last turn on which it does something," and getting + doesn't count as "doing something." Same reason Research doesn't stay in play when you trash a Copper with it (putting zero set aside cards into your hand doesn't count as "doing something").

Changed. so much better without that text.



Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?

Quote
Quote
Warriors:  It's a clever concept, but I think it may be a bit weak for $4.



I initially thought to put it at , but it's stackable and could give you a lot of +buys, so I think maybe it' OK at . I don't know for sure.

You play Dominion very differently from how I do if you don't think that getting upwards of 4 Buys is needlessly excessive most of the time. The excessive amount of +Buys you can get usually doesn't make up for the fact that it's more expensive than Village and doesn't draw. Because of cards like Villa and Cavalry, the fact that the conversion is mandatory can even be detrimental in some instances.

I'm very far from being any kind of reference as a player. That's why I like so much the feedbacks all of you give to me.

As I said, I was not sure about it and you both helped confirming that is better. Also made conversion non-mandatory.



THANK YOU VERY MUCH GUBUMP!
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LittleFish

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #121 on: December 20, 2020, 01:55:31 am »
+1

Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?
I may be getting the rule wrong, but doesn't the game end at the end of the turn, not the moment the pile is empty, so you could both gain the duchy and then go on to buy the province?
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #122 on: December 20, 2020, 03:22:31 am »
+1

Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?

Okay, your + token is on the Buffoon pile and you'd be short if you didn't play the Buffoon.

I may be getting the rule wrong, but doesn't the game end at the end of the turn, not the moment the pile is empty, so you could both gain the duchy and then go on to buy the province?

You're right. It's a bad example. But my point that you could be in a situation in which the only right move is to play a Victory card still stands.

EDIT: Just thought of an example where getting a Duchy and a Province would cost you the game, but just a Province wouldn't.
You have Wolf Den and Wall as Landmarks. Getting a Duchy would give you a net loss of 1 due to it being your first Duchy and you already being over 15 cards. Not getting the Duchy would therefore put you one point higher than you would be if you did get it, and would prevent a tie, and you went first so your opponent would win the tiebreaker.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 03:26:24 am by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2020, 04:09:37 pm »
0

Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?

Okay, your + token is on the Buffoon pile and you'd be short if you didn't play the Buffoon.

I may be getting the rule wrong, but doesn't the game end at the end of the turn, not the moment the pile is empty, so you could both gain the duchy and then go on to buy the province?

You're right. It's a bad example. But my point that you could be in a situation in which the only right move is to play a Victory card still stands.

EDIT: Just thought of an example where getting a Duchy and a Province would cost you the game, but just a Province wouldn't.
You have Wolf Den and Wall as Landmarks. Getting a Duchy would give you a net loss of 1 due to it being your first Duchy and you already being over 15 cards. Not getting the Duchy would therefore put you one point higher than you would be if you did get it, and would prevent a tie, and you went first so your opponent would win the tiebreaker.

I think there's no need to find more examples related to endgame edge cases, at least for the purposes of Buffoon analysis. I think the point about playing a Victory is already demonstrated by you and I already said that I don't think it's a good feature in general to be able to choose the option of playing when a non-playable card is revealed. So, I ask again: do you think that add a "if it's a playable card" to the option fix this?


EDIT: Does this wording works?

« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 05:52:59 pm by Carline »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2020, 06:21:13 pm »
+1

Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?

Okay, your + token is on the Buffoon pile and you'd be short if you didn't play the Buffoon.

I may be getting the rule wrong, but doesn't the game end at the end of the turn, not the moment the pile is empty, so you could both gain the duchy and then go on to buy the province?

You're right. It's a bad example. But my point that you could be in a situation in which the only right move is to play a Victory card still stands.

EDIT: Just thought of an example where getting a Duchy and a Province would cost you the game, but just a Province wouldn't.
You have Wolf Den and Wall as Landmarks. Getting a Duchy would give you a net loss of 1 due to it being your first Duchy and you already being over 15 cards. Not getting the Duchy would therefore put you one point higher than you would be if you did get it, and would prevent a tie, and you went first so your opponent would win the tiebreaker.

I think there's no need to find more examples related to endgame edge cases, at least for the purposes of Buffoon analysis. I think the point about playing a Victory is already demonstrated by you and I already said that I don't think it's a good feature in general to be able to choose the option of playing when a non-playable card is revealed. So, I ask again: do you think that add a "if it's a playable card" to the option fix this?


EDIT: Does this wording works?



"Playable" isn't really a defined keyword in Dominion, and there aren't very many playable cards aside from Treasures and Actions, so I'd prefer limiting it to those two types, but your new wording is probably fine. Assuming it's intended that you can choose the Throne option with non-playable cards as effectively a do-nothing option.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #125 on: December 20, 2020, 06:56:16 pm »
0


"Playable" isn't really a defined keyword in Dominion, and there aren't very many playable cards aside from Treasures and Actions, so I'd prefer limiting it to those two types, but your new wording is probably fine. Assuming it's intended that you can choose the Throne option with non-playable cards as effectively a do-nothing option.

What about this wording?

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #126 on: December 20, 2020, 06:57:25 pm »
+1

Quote



Changed "show" to "reveals".

The spirit of the card is "they choose and you choose over they choice". It won't be this card without this.

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

I have an edge case for you: The player to your left reveals a Duchy. There's only one Duchy left, and you know that if either you or your opponent gains it, the game ends and you lose, but you have enough to buy a Province this turn and that would make you win. So your only option is to choose to play it twice. But playing a Duchy doesn't make any sense, as Victories aren't playable. What happens?

In this edge case you pointed, the solution is easy: if you would buy a Province and win the game, you don't need to play the Buffoon. However, I agree that in general it's strange that there is a play option and they can reveal a non-playable card. Should I add something like "if it's a playable card..." to the option?

Okay, your + token is on the Buffoon pile and you'd be short if you didn't play the Buffoon.

I may be getting the rule wrong, but doesn't the game end at the end of the turn, not the moment the pile is empty, so you could both gain the duchy and then go on to buy the province?

You're right. It's a bad example. But my point that you could be in a situation in which the only right move is to play a Victory card still stands.

EDIT: Just thought of an example where getting a Duchy and a Province would cost you the game, but just a Province wouldn't.
You have Wolf Den and Wall as Landmarks. Getting a Duchy would give you a net loss of 1 due to it being your first Duchy and you already being over 15 cards. Not getting the Duchy would therefore put you one point higher than you would be if you did get it, and would prevent a tie, and you went first so your opponent would win the tiebreaker.

I think there's no need to find more examples related to endgame edge cases, at least for the purposes of Buffoon analysis. I think the point about playing a Victory is already demonstrated by you and I already said that I don't think it's a good feature in general to be able to choose the option of playing when a non-playable card is revealed. So, I ask again: do you think that add a "if it's a playable card" to the option fix this?


EDIT: Does this wording works?



"Playable" isn't really a defined keyword in Dominion, and there aren't very many playable cards aside from Treasures and Actions, so I'd prefer limiting it to those two types, but your new wording is probably fine. Assuming it's intended that you can choose the Throne option with non-playable cards as effectively a do-nothing option.
Maybe "non-Command nor Victory" card?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2020, 07:04:50 pm »
0

Maybe "non-Command nor Victory" card?

Thank you, LittleFish. I reworded it again to this. Do you think it's OK?




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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2020, 08:48:12 pm »
+1

That's a much better wording.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2020, 09:53:27 pm »
+1

Updated these cards:

               


I want more terminal draw, so added this. Better use is to set aside Estates and use as Den of Sin, while keeping them away from shuffle. I don't know, comparing to Research and Smith, if it's better at $3 or $4. 




Updated this Event:




Changed Touch of Life into an Event:




Added this event:




Merged Divination and Alert in one Project:




Added this Way from last Weekly Contest, changing theme and making it not staying until next turn.




Changed the beasts to use Novices mechanics of double face cards. Added a discard of a useful card, so it would not be so good with Necropolis and not so easy to play many of them in a turn.

Way of the Beast and Beasts set

     

  Beasts (Double face cards)

  Gargoyle/Sphynx

            

  Medusa/Quimera

                      

  She-Wolf/Harpy

          


Quote
BEASTS SETUP
If Way of the Beast is in the game, set aside the Beats with Gargoyle, Medusa and She-Wolf face up.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 01:43:54 am by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #130 on: December 21, 2020, 01:50:39 am »
+1

I have a few comments on your new cards.

Touch of Life
This seems to be too strong. For example, you can convert all your Coppers to Peddlers.
What about "Once per game"?

Way of the Werecat
Wording: …at the end of this turn (after drawing). See Way of the Squirrel, River’s Gift.

Way of the Beasts
I like the idea that you extend the Novice idea of the double-faced cards. This emphasizes your new concept in your set. However, there might be a problem. Gargoyle is too weak compared to the alternatives and would be likely rarely played and thus, Sphinx would be rarely seen.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #131 on: December 21, 2020, 01:57:10 am »
0

I have a few comments on your new cards.

Touch of Life
This seems to be too strong. For example, you can convert all your Coppers to Peddlers.
What about "Once per game"

It was a Project, so it was once per game. When I converted to Event, I forgot to put the clause.

Quote
Way of the Werecat
Wording: …at the end of this turn (after drawing). See Way of the Squirrel, River’s Gift.

I used the wording of Save, but the one you said is better.

Quote
Way of the Beasts
I like the idea that you extend the Novice idea of the double-faced cards. This emphasizes your new concept in your set. However, there might be a problem. Gargoyle is too weak compared to the alternatives and would be likely rarely played and thus, Sphinx would be rarely seen.

It does Spy in your deck too. You think it's weak even with it?.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #132 on: December 21, 2020, 02:12:11 am »
+1

I have a few comments on your new cards.

Touch of Life
This seems to be too strong. For example, you can convert all your Coppers to Peddlers.
What about "Once per game"

Quote from: Carline
It was a Project, so it was once per game. When I converted to Event, I forgot to put the clause.

Just to be sure: I would probably put the "once per game" there, but even then I feel that it is still too strong, mainly because of the Coppers.


Quote
Way of the Werecat
Wording: …at the end of this turn (after drawing). See Way of the Squirrel, River’s Gift.

Quote from: Carline
I used the wording of Save, but the one you said is better.

I wasn't aware of the wording of Save. Still, as you said the alternative looks better.
 

Quote
Way of the Beasts
I like the idea that you extend the Novice idea of the double-faced cards. This emphasizes your new concept in your set. However, there might be a problem. Gargoyle is too weak compared to the alternatives and would be likely rarely played and thus, Sphinx would be rarely seen.

Quote from: Carline
It does Spy in your deck too. You think it's weak even with it?.

Yes. I would rather junk my opponents or mess with the top 3 cards of their deck instead of just one in the majority of the cases. Only when you can combine the Spy effect of Gargoyle with another card in your hand that strongly benefits from knowing, which card is on top, this becomes relevant. If I remember correctly, you have a few cards that do that, but without looking back to all your cards, I can't say how many you have in your set and how strong their effects are.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #133 on: December 21, 2020, 05:57:44 pm »
0

Quote
Wishing Fountain: I think this should cost $3 like Wishing Well, or you should consider tweaking it to be able to reveal more than 2 cards to find matches.  You'd have to be quite lucky to have both cards be the same; in most cases you will probably only gain 1 card to your hand.



Did you see it cares about card types and not card names?

Oops...I missed that.  Card type is definitely easier than card name.


Quote
Quote
Blessing: I feel like the net result of this is that you pay $5 now to gain a card costing up to $6 directly to your hand in the future.  The option to trash in nice and there is some synergy with Blessed Gems if play both in the same turn, but it still seems a bit weak overall.



I don't think this version is weak, it's vanishing Chapel plus a kind of Feast.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think the cost and power level are fine.  It's better than Feast because a Wish gives you the flexibility to gain a card that will be most useful to you when you play it.

Quote
Quote
Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).



If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of giving your opponent a choice, and then making a decision based on what they choose.  I'm still concerned about the power level.  One potential consequence of Buffoon is that because one of the options is for every other player to gain a copy of the card, in multi-player games some Supply piles could run out faster.  In such a scenario, your opponent could reveal a card whose Supply pile is empty, and your choices would be either to play that card twice (which may not necessarily be useful for you) or force everyone else to gain a Copper, which is fairly weak compared to other junking attacks.  In certain games where your opponent is winning, it may actually be beneficial for them to reveal an Estate.  If you choose the junking attack, you risk accelerating the end of the game by emptying out a Supply pile, whereas if you choose to gain an Estate, that wouldn't help you much. 

Also, how would this work with Ruins?  I may be wrong about the rules, but if a player reveals "Abandoned Mine", for instance, you can't force them to gain a copy of it unless it also happens to be the top card in the Ruins Supply pile.         
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 05:59:48 pm by Timinou »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2020, 06:51:53 pm »
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Quote
Quote
Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).



If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of giving your opponent a choice, and then making a decision based on what they choose.  I'm still concerned about the power level.  One potential consequence of Buffoon is that because one of the options is for every other player to gain a copy of the card, in multi-player games some Supply piles could run out faster.  In such a scenario, your opponent could reveal a card whose Supply pile is empty, and your choices would be either to play that card twice (which may not necessarily be useful for you) or force everyone else to gain a Copper, which is fairly weak compared to other junking attacks.  In certain games where your opponent is winning, it may actually be beneficial for them to reveal an Estate.  If you choose the junking attack, you risk accelerating the end of the game by emptying out a Supply pile, whereas if you choose to gain an Estate, that wouldn't help you much. 

Also, how would this work with Ruins?  I may be wrong about the rules, but if a player reveals "Abandoned Mine", for instance, you can't force them to gain a copy of it unless it also happens to be the top card in the Ruins Supply pile.         

Many attack cards don't do the attack part when a supply pile is empty (Curses for Witch, the revelead card pile for Jester, etc). Buffoon will fail sometimes, but I think would be rare these cases when you best move with it is the sub-optimal Copper junking. Even in this cases, I think it's more intersting that your opponent have to see this possibilty than if occurs at random.

Buffoon would do good things for you most of the time, but it has the kind of swingness of Swindler. In a few edge cases, they can go against you. Just don't play your Swindler if your opponent has Peddlers and Pedllers pile is empty.

With Ruins, you may always play them twice if the top card of the pile is not the same of the revelead one.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2020, 08:27:15 pm »
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Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).



If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of giving your opponent a choice, and then making a decision based on what they choose.  I'm still concerned about the power level.  One potential consequence of Buffoon is that because one of the options is for every other player to gain a copy of the card, in multi-player games some Supply piles could run out faster.  In such a scenario, your opponent could reveal a card whose Supply pile is empty, and your choices would be either to play that card twice (which may not necessarily be useful for you) or force everyone else to gain a Copper, which is fairly weak compared to other junking attacks.  In certain games where your opponent is winning, it may actually be beneficial for them to reveal an Estate.  If you choose the junking attack, you risk accelerating the end of the game by emptying out a Supply pile, whereas if you choose to gain an Estate, that wouldn't help you much. 

Also, how would this work with Ruins?  I may be wrong about the rules, but if a player reveals "Abandoned Mine", for instance, you can't force them to gain a copy of it unless it also happens to be the top card in the Ruins Supply pile.         

Many attack cards don't do the attack part when a supply pile is empty (Curses for Witch, the revelead card pile for Jester, etc).

Right, but Witch gives you +2 Cards and Jester gives you $2 (and in games with 3+ players you'd have to be unlucky if all players revealed something from an empty Supply pile).  Buffoon doesn't do anything in this case other than the sub-par junking effect in this case. 

Quote
With Ruins, you may always play them twice if the top card of the pile is not the same of the revelead one.

Depending on what is revealed, it may not always be that helpful.

Have you considered giving Buffoon some vanilla bonuses in addition to the attack? 
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2020, 09:05:30 pm »
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Quote
Quote
Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).

[imgwidth=150]https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/images/003/008/893/full/Buffoon_%2829%29.png?1608437074[/img]

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of giving your opponent a choice, and then making a decision based on what they choose.  I'm still concerned about the power level.  One potential consequence of Buffoon is that because one of the options is for every other player to gain a copy of the card, in multi-player games some Supply piles could run out faster.  In such a scenario, your opponent could reveal a card whose Supply pile is empty, and your choices would be either to play that card twice (which may not necessarily be useful for you) or force everyone else to gain a Copper, which is fairly weak compared to other junking attacks.  In certain games where your opponent is winning, it may actually be beneficial for them to reveal an Estate.  If you choose the junking attack, you risk accelerating the end of the game by emptying out a Supply pile, whereas if you choose to gain an Estate, that wouldn't help you much. 

Also, how would this work with Ruins?  I may be wrong about the rules, but if a player reveals "Abandoned Mine", for instance, you can't force them to gain a copy of it unless it also happens to be the top card in the Ruins Supply pile.         

Many attack cards don't do the attack part when a supply pile is empty (Curses for Witch, the revelead card pile for Jester, etc).

Right, but Witch gives you +2 Cards and Jester gives you $2 (and in games with 3+ players you'd have to be unlucky if all players revealed something from an empty Supply pile).  Buffoon doesn't do anything in this case other than the sub-par junking effect in this case. 

Quote
With Ruins, you may always play them twice if the top card of the pile is not the same of the revelead one.

Depending on what is revealed, it may not always be that helpful.

Have you considered giving Buffoon some vanilla bonuses in addition to the attack?

Also if someone reveals a moat
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2020, 09:52:28 pm »
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Quote
Quote
Buffoon: I would replace the word "show" with "reveals" to be consistent with other cards.  I think giving the opponent the choice of which card to reveal sounds good on the surface, but I think more often than not, they will reveal mediocre cards and Buffoon will end up being weaker than Jester.  I feel like it would be better to have the opponent reveal the top card of the deck (I wouldn't have them discard it like with Jester).

[imgwidth=150]https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/images/003/008/893/full/Buffoon_%2829%29.png?1608437074[/img]

If they choose a good card, you gain it. If  they choose a bad card, you do a kind of Mountebank attack. If they choose a mediocre card like Silver, it's not so bad also, you play it twice.

Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of giving your opponent a choice, and then making a decision based on what they choose.  I'm still concerned about the power level.  One potential consequence of Buffoon is that because one of the options is for every other player to gain a copy of the card, in multi-player games some Supply piles could run out faster.  In such a scenario, your opponent could reveal a card whose Supply pile is empty, and your choices would be either to play that card twice (which may not necessarily be useful for you) or force everyone else to gain a Copper, which is fairly weak compared to other junking attacks.  In certain games where your opponent is winning, it may actually be beneficial for them to reveal an Estate.  If you choose the junking attack, you risk accelerating the end of the game by emptying out a Supply pile, whereas if you choose to gain an Estate, that wouldn't help you much. 

Also, how would this work with Ruins?  I may be wrong about the rules, but if a player reveals "Abandoned Mine", for instance, you can't force them to gain a copy of it unless it also happens to be the top card in the Ruins Supply pile.         

Many attack cards don't do the attack part when a supply pile is empty (Curses for Witch, the revelead card pile for Jester, etc).

Right, but Witch gives you +2 Cards and Jester gives you $2 (and in games with 3+ players you'd have to be unlucky if all players revealed something from an empty Supply pile).  Buffoon doesn't do anything in this case other than the sub-par junking effect in this case. 

Quote
With Ruins, you may always play them twice if the top card of the pile is not the same of the revelead one.

Depending on what is revealed, it may not always be that helpful.

Have you considered giving Buffoon some vanilla bonuses in addition to the attack?

Also if someone reveals a moat


Comparing to Jester attack part:

- If the revealed card is an Action, Treasure or Night, Buffoon is so much better than Jester: If you want to gain a copy, it’s the same; if it’s bad and you want to junk, you junk with an additional Copper; and you have the extra option of play it twice. If its pile is empty, Jester attack fails, Buffoon can play it twice.

- If the revealed card is a Curse, Buffoon junks with a Copper more. If Curse pile is out, Jester attack fails, Buffoon may give a Copper.

- If the revealed card is an Estate, with Buffoon you junk with a Copper more. You also may gain it in the endgame, if you want. If Estates pile is out, Buffoon may give Copper. If Curse pile is out, Jester attack fails.

- If the revealed card is a good Victory, Buffon may gain it, which is better than gives a Curse. If their pile is out, Buffoon may give Copper. If Curse pile is out, Jester attack fails.

When the revealed card is bad, Jester junks with a copy, but also discards it from the top of deck, which could help your opponent (the opposite when it's a good card).

When Jester attack fails, it’s less than a Woodcutter. The worst case of Buffoon, when happens, is Ambassador attack without trashing, not so good, but not a total fail.

I think the better options Buffoon has over Jester in most of the cases, in special the play twice option and additional junking, counterbalance the + of Jester.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 10:11:20 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #138 on: December 22, 2020, 05:58:36 pm »
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I have a few comments on your new cards.

Touch of Life
This seems to be too strong. For example, you can convert all your Coppers to Peddlers.
What about "Once per game"

Quote from: Carline
It was a Project, so it was once per game. When I converted to Event, I forgot to put the clause.

Just to be sure: I would probably put the "once per game" there, but even then I feel that it is still too strong, mainly because of the Coppers.


Changed it to include a discard. Now Coppers, instead of Peddlers, would be endgame Poachers.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #139 on: December 22, 2020, 06:06:58 pm »
+1

I have a few comments on your new cards.

Touch of Life
This seems to be too strong. For example, you can convert all your Coppers to Peddlers.
What about "Once per game"

Quote from: Carline
It was a Project, so it was once per game. When I converted to Event, I forgot to put the clause.

Just to be sure: I would probably put the "once per game" there, but even then I feel that it is still too strong, mainly because of the Coppers.


Changed it to include a discard. Now Coppers, instead of Peddlers, would be endgame Poachers.


What happens with Night cards?

Edit: Won't this work to play treasures in the action phase without using anything up, while also drawing an extra card? Sort of like backwards capitalism?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 06:08:22 pm by LittleFish »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #140 on: December 22, 2020, 06:38:12 pm »
+1

I think Looters are rare enough for it to be reasonable to just allow Ruins to be an edge case that makes Buffoon weak. Especially since they're only in one expansion.

Also, someone in the Dominion Discord pointed this out about another playing-Victories-as-Actions fan card posted there, which also applies to Touch of Life: I think it's too broken to allow Provinces to be played since they can then be gained with Pilgrimage, Changeling, or Kiln.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 06:41:00 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #141 on: December 22, 2020, 08:28:58 pm »
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Also, someone in the Dominion Discord pointed this out about another playing-Victories-as-Actions fan card posted there, which also applies to Touch of Life: I think it's too broken to allow Provinces to be played since they can then be gained with Pilgrimage, Changeling, or Kiln.

Yes, it's a problem, thank you. I'll see how to fix it.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #142 on: December 23, 2020, 06:00:49 pm »
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I think maybe Touch of Life could work as an Action. How much do you think it should cost?

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #143 on: December 23, 2020, 07:30:46 pm »
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I think maybe Touch of Life could work as an Action. How much do you think it should cost?


Maybe it should give +1 action, so you can actually play the set aside card
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2020, 07:39:58 pm »
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I think maybe Touch of Life could work as an Action. How much do you think it should cost?


Maybe it should give +1 action, so you can actually play the set aside card

It instructs you to play the card.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2020, 07:43:02 pm »
+1


I think maybe Touch of Life could work as an Action. How much do you think it should cost?


Maybe it should give +1 action, so you can actually play the set aside card

It instructs you to play the card.
Sorry, missed that
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #146 on: December 26, 2020, 05:06:51 am »
+1

Pretty sure that this is still too good. You don't need to trash at all, all your Coppers are Peddlers. And Silvers become the card which shall not exist in an unconditional form.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #147 on: December 26, 2020, 12:50:42 pm »
+1

Pretty sure that this is still too good. You don't need to trash at all, all your Coppers are Peddlers. And Silvers become the card which shall not exist in an unconditional form.
but only for one turn, not the entire game. Maybe as a it will be hard enough to reach that the power level is okay.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #148 on: December 26, 2020, 02:26:36 pm »
+1

As it is nonterminal and not a cantrip it is definitely worse than the Project. And of course you still have to draw into Touch of Life to Peddler-ify all your yellow.
But that is the issue, all you need is some draw or sifting power. That is too simple, you usually gotta work harder. You need Buys to get a lot of Peddlers and the three DoublePeddlers require much more deckbuilding effort than Touch of Life.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #149 on: December 26, 2020, 02:29:12 pm »
+1

Suppose you open Warehouse/Silver. You get lucky after the first shuffle, hit $6, buy Touch of Life and a second Warehouse. You already got a deck at T5 which nearly draws itself!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #150 on: December 26, 2020, 03:04:48 pm »
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Suppose you open Warehouse/Silver. You get lucky after the first shuffle, hit $6, buy Touch of Life and a second Warehouse. You already got a deck at T5 which nearly draws itself!

One option to nerf it is make it gives +1 Action but doesn't play the set aside card. Effect would work only after the second copy of that card. I don't know for sure if it fix the issues.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 03:08:42 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #151 on: December 26, 2020, 04:16:10 pm »
+2

The issue is that converting all Coppers into Peddlers and Silvers into DoublePeddlers is too good/easy no matter how you implement it.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #152 on: December 26, 2020, 04:35:13 pm »
+1

How about the two possibilities: They are 1) optional, i.e. choose one: "either or" or 2) they are "only...".

For example Copper:
1) Either they give +1 Card and +1 Action; or they give $1; with an individual choice for each Copper (Action or Treasure).

2) They only give +1 Card and +1 Action; no $1.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #153 on: December 26, 2020, 10:54:07 pm »
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Due to feedbacks in Discord, I updated these cards. Many thanks to those who helped me there, in special nasmith99, alion8me, Shael and TheFunfighter, who made, each, a lot of important comments. The fixes for the issues they pointed are mine, so maybe some cards could still not be in the ideal version. I'm revising some other cards.


                                             

        
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 10:55:42 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #154 on: December 27, 2020, 12:29:53 am »
+1

I think Librarian compares too favorably to Wharf, which is already a broken . All you need to get +3 Cards now and next turn (which is twice as strong as Wharf's +2 Cards now and next turn) is set aside a card that costs , which is a very small drawback for what you get out of it. And it only gets stronger from there. I think it would be more balanced if you had to trash the set aside card.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #155 on: December 27, 2020, 07:30:53 pm »
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Shael pointed that was a bit strange Warriors doesn't be an Attack and I agree. So, I moved its functons to Sisterhood and made Warriors an Attack.

Edit: Changed to Warrioresses to no confuse with officail card Warrior.

Edit2: Changed to a kind of saboteur attack, according to suggestion of alion8me (thank you!)

Edit 3: I thought Saboteur attack would be too cruel, so I changed it to Exile.

     
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 11:11:29 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #156 on: December 27, 2020, 07:48:25 pm »
+1

Just so you know, the Blessing shown next to its Heirloom in the OP still shows the old version. Likewise, Burning has not been updated in the OP at all.

Lastly, I'm apparently blind and didn't see the "up to " in Librarian. Its power-level is probably fine, actually.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 07:53:17 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #157 on: December 27, 2020, 07:52:05 pm »
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Just so you know, the Blessing shown next to its Heirloom in the OP still shows the old version.

Fixed. Thank you!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #158 on: December 27, 2020, 09:26:02 pm »
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Changed Nurse to . Is it OK now?




Changed Bride Wait to Debt cost, to it not favor 4/3 openings over 3/4.




I removed Underworld Gate until find better solution for it.


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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #159 on: December 27, 2020, 09:35:50 pm »
+1

I guess you didn't see this since I got ninja'd by you in my last comment: Burning has not been updated in the OP.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #160 on: December 29, 2020, 11:22:16 am »
+1

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric? 
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #161 on: December 29, 2020, 12:22:12 pm »
+2

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric?

It's one of the Land Grant Landmarks. You can only get it with Land Grant, which means that it only applies to a single player.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #162 on: December 29, 2020, 12:31:38 pm »
+1

I suggest simplifying cards wherever you can, especially the ones with very small text. For example, I would either remove Nurse's ability to return cards to the top of your deck or remove its gain-to-hand ability.

EDIT: On Sisterhood, I would specify either "all your unused Actions" or "any number of your unused Actions". "Each of your unused Actions" seems vague to me; I don't know which you mean. Also I'd go for "all". It's simpler.

Sisterhood itself is a cool effect, though maybe too powerful? The power of +Buy is the power to end the game. I'm not saying it's definitely too strong, I'd just keep an eye on that during testing.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 12:34:47 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #163 on: December 29, 2020, 02:32:15 pm »
0

I suggest simplifying cards wherever you can, especially the ones with very small text. For example, I would either remove Nurse's ability to return cards to the top of your deck or remove its gain-to-hand ability.

EDIT: On Sisterhood, I would specify either "all your unused Actions" or "any number of your unused Actions". "Each of your unused Actions" seems vague to me; I don't know which you mean. Also I'd go for "all". It's simpler.

Sisterhood itself is a cool effect, though maybe too powerful? The power of +Buy is the power to end the game. I'm not saying it's definitely too strong, I'd just keep an eye on that during testing.

Thank you!

I added return to topdeck ability to Nurse to make it a little better, making it not discard good cards if you reveal more than one. And the gain to hand is to make it good to open with. In terms of funcionality only, not text size, do you think it's too strong with these two features?

Nurse also has two parentheses which don't add instructions, only explanations. I myself think they aren't necessary. I copy the first from Save and the second from Nights gained to hand. I would be happy to remove them if this remotion wouldn't cause confusion. What do you think?

Sisterhood was a , but I changed due to comments that it would be weak. I agree with you that many +Buys would be powerful at endgame. I think it's better to see tests, like you said. The first version converted all Tokens. I changed it because of Villa and Cavalry, but I still really don't know if these particular cases justify this change.   
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 02:34:42 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #164 on: December 29, 2020, 02:57:09 pm »
+1

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric?

It's one of the Land Grant Landmarks. You can only get it with Land Grant, which means that it only applies to a single player.

Thanks! I scrolled past that so didn't notice it.

Carline, you may want to consider adding some kind of marking (or create a new card type) so that they don't get mixed with standard Landmarks.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2020, 03:03:29 pm »
+1

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric?

It's one of the Land Grant Landmarks. You can only get it with Land Grant, which means that it only applies to a single player.

Thanks! I scrolled past that so didn't notice it.

Carline, you may want to consider adding some kind of marking (or create a new card type) so that they don't get mixed with standard Landmarks.
They could work as states/artifacts, even if it makes it less thematic
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2020, 04:08:02 pm »
+1

I suggest simplifying cards wherever you can, especially the ones with very small text. For example, I would either remove Nurse's ability to return cards to the top of your deck or remove its gain-to-hand ability.

EDIT: On Sisterhood, I would specify either "all your unused Actions" or "any number of your unused Actions". "Each of your unused Actions" seems vague to me; I don't know which you mean. Also I'd go for "all". It's simpler.

Sisterhood itself is a cool effect, though maybe too powerful? The power of +Buy is the power to end the game. I'm not saying it's definitely too strong, I'd just keep an eye on that during testing.

Thank you!

I added return to topdeck ability to Nurse to make it a little better, making it not discard good cards if you reveal more than one. And the gain to hand is to make it good to open with. In terms of funcionality only, not text size, do you think it's too strong with these two features?

Nurse also has two parentheses which don't add instructions, only explanations. I myself think they aren't necessary. I copy the first from Save and the second from Nights gained to hand. I would be happy to remove them if this remotion wouldn't cause confusion. What do you think?

Sisterhood was a , but I changed due to comments that it would be weak. I agree with you that many +Buys would be powerful at endgame. I think it's better to see tests, like you said. The first version converted all Tokens. I changed it because of Villa and Cavalry, but I still really don't know if these particular cases justify this change.

I frankly think Nurse is too weak even with the ability to put good cards back. It's basically a next-turn Border Guard without the Artifacts, which is too weak an effect for the fact that it's gained to hand to make up for, IMO.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2020, 08:25:18 pm »
+1

I suggest simplifying cards wherever you can, especially the ones with very small text. For example, I would either remove Nurse's ability to return cards to the top of your deck or remove its gain-to-hand ability.

EDIT: On Sisterhood, I would specify either "all your unused Actions" or "any number of your unused Actions". "Each of your unused Actions" seems vague to me; I don't know which you mean. Also I'd go for "all". It's simpler.

Sisterhood itself is a cool effect, though maybe too powerful? The power of +Buy is the power to end the game. I'm not saying it's definitely too strong, I'd just keep an eye on that during testing.

Thank you!

I added return to topdeck ability to Nurse to make it a little better, making it not discard good cards if you reveal more than one. And the gain to hand is to make it good to open with. In terms of funcionality only, not text size, do you think it's too strong with these two features?

Nurse also has two parentheses which don't add instructions, only explanations. I myself think they aren't necessary. I copy the first from Save and the second from Nights gained to hand. I would be happy to remove them if this remotion wouldn't cause confusion. What do you think?

Sisterhood was a , but I changed due to comments that it would be weak. I agree with you that many +Buys would be powerful at endgame. I think it's better to see tests, like you said. The first version converted all Tokens. I changed it because of Villa and Cavalry, but I still really don't know if these particular cases justify this change.

I frankly think Nurse is too weak even with the ability to put good cards back. It's basically a next-turn Border Guard without the Artifacts, which is too weak an effect for the fact that it's gained to hand to make up for, IMO.

It's Border Guard next turn already with a permanent Lantern and the ability of choose between discard or return to deck for each card not put in hand. I think it could help a lot to prepare your next turn. As it puts a card in your hand, it seems ok to me comparing to Night Watchman.

Edit: Does this wording works?

« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 08:41:05 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2020, 08:47:48 pm »
0

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric?

It's one of the Land Grant Landmarks. You can only get it with Land Grant, which means that it only applies to a single player.

Thanks! I scrolled past that so didn't notice it.

Carline, you may want to consider adding some kind of marking (or create a new card type) so that they don't get mixed with standard Landmarks.
They could work as states/artifacts, even if it makes it less thematic

Maybe they could be States without losing thematically if I add "Owner" to their names.



Or Artifacts if I add "Grant".



As my English is not so good, I don't know if these solutions are suitable or not.

However, I think it would be good if they are not confused with normal Landmarks, so a kind of mark or a new type could also be solutions. Which do you think is better?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 09:06:55 pm by Carline »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2020, 10:52:57 pm »
+1

Carline, unless I'm missing something, won't all players score the same amount of points with Bishopric?

It's one of the Land Grant Landmarks. You can only get it with Land Grant, which means that it only applies to a single player.

Thanks! I scrolled past that so didn't notice it.

Carline, you may want to consider adding some kind of marking (or create a new card type) so that they don't get mixed with standard Landmarks.
They could work as states/artifacts, even if it makes it less thematic

Maybe they could be States without losing thematically if I add "Owner" to their names.



Or Artifacts if I add "Grant".



As my English is not so good, I don't know if these solutions are suitable or not.

However, I think it would be good if they are not confused with normal Landmarks, so a kind of mark or a new type could also be solutions. Which do you think is better?

I think using Artifacts and the name "Grant" is better.

I suggest simplifying cards wherever you can, especially the ones with very small text. For example, I would either remove Nurse's ability to return cards to the top of your deck or remove its gain-to-hand ability.

EDIT: On Sisterhood, I would specify either "all your unused Actions" or "any number of your unused Actions". "Each of your unused Actions" seems vague to me; I don't know which you mean. Also I'd go for "all". It's simpler.

Sisterhood itself is a cool effect, though maybe too powerful? The power of +Buy is the power to end the game. I'm not saying it's definitely too strong, I'd just keep an eye on that during testing.

Thank you!

I added return to topdeck ability to Nurse to make it a little better, making it not discard good cards if you reveal more than one. And the gain to hand is to make it good to open with. In terms of funcionality only, not text size, do you think it's too strong with these two features?

Nurse also has two parentheses which don't add instructions, only explanations. I myself think they aren't necessary. I copy the first from Save and the second from Nights gained to hand. I would be happy to remove them if this remotion wouldn't cause confusion. What do you think?

Sisterhood was a , but I changed due to comments that it would be weak. I agree with you that many +Buys would be powerful at endgame. I think it's better to see tests, like you said. The first version converted all Tokens. I changed it because of Villa and Cavalry, but I still really don't know if these particular cases justify this change.

I frankly think Nurse is too weak even with the ability to put good cards back. It's basically a next-turn Border Guard without the Artifacts, which is too weak an effect for the fact that it's gained to hand to make up for, IMO.

It's Border Guard next turn already with a permanent Lantern and the ability of choose between discard or return to deck for each card not put in hand. I think it could help a lot to prepare your next turn. As it puts a card in your hand, it seems ok to me comparing to Night Watchman.

Edit: Does this wording works?



I derped and for some reason thought Border Guard looked at 3 by default (which would probably be a decent , let alone ). It's fine as-is balance-wise. And yes, the new wording works.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 10:54:02 pm by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2020, 12:38:23 am »
0


I made a new serie, a cyclic line with mandatory exchanging.



               

Feedbacks would be very welcome!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2020, 12:41:03 am »
+1

Cool concept!  How many Seasons would there be in each pile?  What would happen if one of the piles runs out?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2020, 12:43:12 am »
+1


I made a new serie, a cyclic line with mandatory exchanging.



               

Feedbacks would be very welcome!
Maybe add a color to the season type, so you remember to swap them out, similar to the duration orange reminding you to keep it in play.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #173 on: December 30, 2020, 12:57:15 am »
0

Cool concept!  How many Seasons would there be in each pile?  What would happen if one of the piles runs out?

The rule would be the same for travellers, if a pile is temporary empty, you can't exchange at this time. I still don't know how many Seasons for pile would be better, I think it has to be a number according to the number of players.

Maybe add a color to the season type, so you remember to swap them out, similar to the duration orange reminding you to keep it in play.

Maybe the same arrow of Travellers is better, as it is a reminder for the same thing . Do you know how to put it in Card Generator?
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #174 on: December 30, 2020, 02:00:42 am »
+1

Cool concept!  How many Seasons would there be in each pile?  What would happen if one of the piles runs out?

The rule would be the same for travellers, if a pile is temporary empty, you can't exchange at this time. I still don't know how many Seasons for pile would be better, I think it has to be a number according to the number of players.

Maybe add a color to the season type, so you remember to swap them out, similar to the duration orange reminding you to keep it in play.

Maybe the same arrow of Travellers is better, as it is a reminder for the same thing . Do you know how to put it in Card Generator?

Giving your card the type "Traveller" automatically adds the arrow to the image. I don't think there is another way to add the arrow.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 02:02:00 am by Gubump »
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #175 on: December 30, 2020, 02:29:13 am »
+1


Added Traveller type, made all Seasons cantrips and changed Four Seasons to .




               

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #176 on: December 30, 2020, 03:27:27 am »
0


Updated these two cards:

            
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #177 on: December 30, 2020, 04:15:57 am »
+1


Added Traveller type, made all Seasons cantrips and changed Four Seasons to .




               
I like this a lot as I a am a sucker for cards that want to be matched with others. I also think it is wise to nerf the Laboratory-Season aka Spring as this is potentially the most explosive of the vanila bunch.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #178 on: December 30, 2020, 12:05:32 pm »
+2


Updated these two cards:

          
Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #179 on: December 30, 2020, 01:55:17 pm »
0


Updated these two cards:

          
Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

I was aware of this, but it happens only with intentional sub-par playing. Similar situations could happen with Jester, Swindler or Oracle, for example.

Anyway, I think I can reduce this risk.

What I want is to give other cards, especially Coppers when Curse pile is out. Otherwise, you could pin the opponent.

Maybe it could be better if I write "a card you choose from one of the cheapest available in Supply".
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #180 on: December 30, 2020, 02:42:20 pm »
+2


Updated these two cards:

          
Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

I was aware of this, but it happens only with intentional sub-par playing. Similar situations could happen with Jester, Swindler or Oracle, for example.

Anyway, I think I can reduce this risk.

What I want is to give other cards, especially Coppers when Curse pile is out. Otherwise, you could pin the opponent.

Maybe it could be better if I write "a card you choose from one of the cheapest available in Supply".

You'd have to specify "cheapest in ," because once the Coppers and Curses run out, there is no "cheapest" if Vineyards are in the Kingdom ( is not less than , nor is less than ).
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #181 on: December 30, 2020, 02:54:41 pm »
+1


Updated these two cards:

     
Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

I was aware of this, but it happens only with intentional sub-par playing. Similar situations could happen with Jester, Swindler or Oracle, for example.

Anyway, I think I can reduce this risk.

What I want is to give other cards, especially Coppers when Curse pile is out. Otherwise, you could pin the opponent.

Maybe it could be better if I write "a card you choose from one of the cheapest available in Supply".

You'd have to specify "cheapest in ," because once the Coppers and Curses run out, there is no "cheapest" if Vineyards are in the Kingdom ( is not less than , nor is less than ).

You could just say zero cost since it'd be extremely rare for both the Curses and Coppers to run out.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #182 on: December 30, 2020, 03:04:10 pm »
+1

It's probably fine for Nightmare to just say "they gain a Curse (or a Copper if they can't)." If both the Curses and Coppers are out and the game hasn't ended, then that's the fault of the players, not the card.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #183 on: December 30, 2020, 03:59:10 pm »
+2

Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

That's not really the concern with "political" attacks. The politics issue is "picking who to hose", as Donald X. puts it. For Nightmare, that only happens when there aren't quite enough Curses to go around and you have to pick who gets them. Personally I'd be willing to live with that, but your mileage may vary.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #184 on: December 31, 2020, 12:48:30 am »
0


Added Traveller type, made all Seasons cantrips and changed Four Seasons to .




               
I like this a lot as I a am a sucker for cards that want to be matched with others. I also think it is wise to nerf the Laboratory-Season aka Spring as this is potentially the most explosive of the vanila bunch.


Yes, you're right. Nerfed Spring. I think they are more well balanced now.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #185 on: December 31, 2020, 01:08:20 am »
0


Updated these two cards:

     
Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

I was aware of this, but it happens only with intentional sub-par playing. Similar situations could happen with Jester, Swindler or Oracle, for example.

Anyway, I think I can reduce this risk.

What I want is to give other cards, especially Coppers when Curse pile is out. Otherwise, you could pin the opponent.

Maybe it could be better if I write "a card you choose from one of the cheapest available in Supply".

You'd have to specify "cheapest in ," because once the Coppers and Curses run out, there is no "cheapest" if Vineyards are in the Kingdom ( is not less than , nor is less than ).

You could just say zero cost since it'd be extremely rare for both the Curses and Coppers to run out.

It's probably fine for Nightmare to just say "they gain a Curse (or a Copper if they can't)." If both the Curses and Coppers are out and the game hasn't ended, then that's the fault of the players, not the card.

Nightmare would be a political attack, as you could give one person a scout, and the other a colony in a three person game

That's not really the concern with "political" attacks. The politics issue is "picking who to hose", as Donald X. puts it. For Nightmare, that only happens when there aren't quite enough Curses to go around and you have to pick who gets them. Personally I'd be willing to live with that, but your mileage may vary.


As it is, maybe sometimes you may want to give other card, even when Curse pile is not empty. 

                       
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #186 on: December 31, 2020, 10:22:22 pm »
+1

Nightmare would be used in endgames to deplete piles, is that an intended usage?

- Deplete 3 piles faster!
- If there are two provinces left and you lead, give the penultimate province to your opponent, and buy the last one. Checkmate!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #187 on: January 01, 2021, 12:38:01 am »
+1

Nightmare would be used in endgames to deplete piles, is that an intended usage?

- Deplete 3 piles faster!
- If there are two provinces left and you lead, give the penultimate province to your opponent, and buy the last one. Checkmate!

Welcome to the Forum!

The main intention was to give other cards when Curse pile is empty.  You pointed other instersting uses for it in endgame. Thank you!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #188 on: January 01, 2021, 02:16:04 pm »
+1

Welcome to the Forum!

Thank you! Yes, I just joined here because I enjoy Dominion a lot and I really love seeing fan cards. Happy New Year!
I wanted to say the Venus expansion looks awesome. It has a lot of very interesting cards, seems very well put together, and the chosen artwork looks fabulous. I definitely want to play it !!!
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #189 on: January 01, 2021, 06:25:24 pm »
0

Welcome to the Forum!

Thank you! Yes, I just joined here because I enjoy Dominion a lot and I really love seeing fan cards. Happy New Year!
I wanted to say the Venus expansion looks awesome. It has a lot of very interesting cards, seems very well put together, and the chosen artwork looks fabulous. I definitely want to play it !!!

Thank you very much! I'm happy you like it.
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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #190 on: January 02, 2021, 12:18:49 am »
0

Added this gainer, a kind of Horn of Plenty variant.

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Re: Dominion: Venus, a fan expansion by Carline
« Reply #191 on: January 02, 2021, 12:35:20 am »
+1

Added this gainer, a kind of Horn of Plenty variant.


Why would you ever play it as an Action? I also think that this should cost more than horn of plenty, seeing as you can get more actions in play than differently named cards