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scott_pilgrim

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Simple Rules Questions
« on: June 12, 2016, 02:40:00 am »
+2

I just want to double-check that all of these are right.  In all cases, I bought Travelling Fair earlier in the turn.

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
2. I buy Stonemason, overpaying, gaining BV then Bridge and BV then Procession.  Depending on the gain order, I can do (BV and Procession) in any order, and (BV and Bridge) in any order, and I could have switched those two groups if I wanted (I could have done (BV and Bridge) then (BV and Procession)), but if the Stonemason's going on top of my deck, he's the last to go, since the overpay effect happens on buy.  I couldn't finish with an ordering like BV-BV-Bridge-Procession (if the BV's are consecutive they have to be in the middle).
3. A Haggler wants to join in on this party.  I can resolve it before or after the Stonemason overpay effect.  So I can go like Poor House-((BV-Procession)-(BV-Bridge))-Stonemason or ((BV-Procession)-(BV-Bridge))-Poor House-Stonemason, where the parentheses denote that I can choose the ordering of the stuff inside them.  These are my only options.
4. If I am doing some shenanigans involving Stonemason, BV, Haggler, etc., I can choose to put anything I want in my discard pile and anything else on top of my deck.  There's nothing stopping me from putting some on top of my deck and some in my discard pile (barring Nomad Camp and Villa).
5. If I gain Villa, it goes to my hand, assuming that's where I want it.  I could also choose to have it go to the top of my deck.  I could not choose to have it go to my discard pile.
6. Hagglers gain stuff from cards bought via Black Market.
7. Bridge reduces the cost of cards in the Black Market.
8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?
9. Cards bought from the Black Market end up on top of their Haggler gains.

I think that's all for now, but I might come up with more later.
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werothegreat

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 10:35:10 am »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Everything else looks fine.  Just remember that if you choose to put Border Village in your discard or on your deck first, then its gain on top of it, you have lost track of Border Village (matters for Summon).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 10:54:01 am »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.
I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 11:01:00 am »
+3

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 11:03:10 am »
+2

I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
At most 1 Knight goes into the Black Market deck, not multiple of them.
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dane-m

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 01:09:16 pm »
+1

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.
Which is relevant because 'no visiting' does not apply to Travelling Fair:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15464.msg600712#msg600712
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 01:11:00 pm »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Well, the rule is that you only put one card from each pile in the Black Market deck. You can choose that card randomly or however you wish.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 01:17:35 pm »
0

I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
At most 1 Knight goes into the Black Market deck, not multiple of them.
I was on the wiki once, and somewhere on the black market page it mentioned that all knights go into the black market deck because they are each different cards.

Edit: nevermind, I just looked at the wiki, you are right. So I guess one castle would be added, determined randomly, and only one of the two different cards from the split piles.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 01:19:24 pm by Doom_Shark »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 03:37:22 pm »
0

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Well, the rule is that you only put one card from each pile in the Black Market deck. You can choose that card randomly or however you wish.

While you're here, Jeebus, I added Empires stuff to the Triggered Effects page.  Want to glance at them and make sure everything's correct?  I promise not to willy nilly revert any changes you make.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 09:15:28 pm »
0

While you're here, Jeebus, I added Empires stuff to the Triggered Effects page.  Want to glance at them and make sure everything's correct?  I promise not to willy nilly revert any changes you make.

Sure, but I first want to do that categorization for my own document, and I haven't gotten that far yet. (I'm sure AJD could do it too though.)

scott_pilgrim

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2016, 01:27:16 am »
0

1b. I actually came to that conclusion originally but then I couldn't figure out how I got it, but it makes sense again.  So I can still do BV first on top, then Bridge on top of that, right?
3b. When I gain stuff from Haggler buys, I can still top-deck everything, and the bought card ends up on top.  The same is true if I buy the card from the Black Market with Hagglers in play.
10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
11. You cannot overpay for Stonemason by $0.  You can overpay by just P.  You can overpay for Stonemason by $1 or P (or debt?) or more if Stonemason costs $0 because of cost reduction.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 03:53:46 am »
+1

1b. I actually came to that conclusion originally but then I couldn't figure out how I got it, but it makes sense again.  So I can still do BV first on top, then Bridge on top of that, right?
3b. When I gain stuff from Haggler buys, I can still top-deck everything, and the bought card ends up on top.  The same is true if I buy the card from the Black Market with Hagglers in play.
10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
11. You cannot overpay for Stonemason by $0.  You can overpay by just P.  You can overpay for Stonemason by $1 or P (or debt?) or more if Stonemason costs $0 because of cost reduction.

1b and 3b. sounds right.
10. Yes.
11. You can't overpay by debt.  It's in the rulebook.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 05:03:06 am »
+4

10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
10. Yes.
The Library doesn't merely skip the -1 card token, it removes it (though that might have been what you meant by 'skipping it') unless you already have at least 7 cards remaining in hand when you play it.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 05:35:58 pm »
0

12. Actions don't get set to 0 at the end of your action phase, right?  If I play 10 Villages, then go to my buy phase and buy Villa, I go back to my action phase with 12 actions?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 05:41:40 pm »
+1

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:47:17 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 05:53:48 pm »
+3

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Going back to your Action phase does not prevent effects from resolving.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2016, 05:56:05 pm »
+2

12. Actions don't get set to 0 at the end of your action phase, right?  If I play 10 Villages, then go to my buy phase and buy Villa, I go back to my action phase with 12 actions?

Yes.

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Yes, you still resolve everything.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2016, 06:56:11 pm »
+1

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Yes, you still resolve everything.

Remember that you'll resolve the other stuff in your action phase, which will be unusual. So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase. But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa, you might want to grab the Villa first so you can gain the Silver to your hand.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 11:02:51 pm by chipperMDW »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2016, 08:55:35 pm »
+1

But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa

Sadly, Stonemason's on-buy only gains Actions.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 11:01:33 pm »
0

But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa

Sadly, Stonemason's on-buy only gains Actions.

So it does. Well, darn.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2016, 03:15:11 pm »
+2

The official ruling from DXV on the Black Market/split piles question was "Look into your heart."
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 03:25:05 pm »
0

Why is this thread pinned?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2016, 03:40:38 pm »
+4

Why is this thread pinned?

Because other people can ask their own simple rules questions in it as well.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 10:35:12 am »
0

So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase.

Wait, but if I choose two cards to gain with Stonemason (Peddler and Villa) and they are valid at the point of choosing, it shouldn't matter in which order I gain them. Even if I gain Villa first, return to my Action phase and Peddler costs $8 again, I should still gain it because when I chose to gain it, it cost $4. I have absolutely no idea if this is right. I just want someone to ultimately verify or falsify this.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 10:57:46 am »
+2

So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase.

Wait, but if I choose two cards to gain with Stonemason (Peddler and Villa) and they are valid at the point of choosing, it shouldn't matter in which order I gain them. Even if I gain Villa first, return to my Action phase and Peddler costs $8 again, I should still gain it because when I chose to gain it, it cost $4. I have absolutely no idea if this is right. I just want someone to ultimately verify or falsify this.

I'm pretty sure chipperMDW is correct, and that it works like this:

When an effect says, "gain a card costing x", that means "choose a card, then gain it". When you gain two cards, you have to first gain one, then the other. Each time you gain one, you first choose, then gain.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 11:07:25 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2016, 11:26:03 am »
+3

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2016, 11:42:49 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
Okay, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2016, 12:00:34 pm »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2016, 12:03:19 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2016, 12:19:05 pm »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
I thought you needed to reveal the Gold/Plunder on the first play to prevent the set-aside clause.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2016, 12:32:03 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
I thought you needed to reveal the Gold/Plunder on the first play to prevent the set-aside clause.

You need to reveal on both plays. If you don't reveal on either of them, it sets itself aside.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2016, 12:33:57 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2016, 01:20:50 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2016, 03:11:38 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2016, 03:24:41 pm »
0

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?

I think so. I'm not sure what Donald's primary motivation was, but making it easier to reach Plunder was definitely a key issue, and making it so you couldn't buy back an Encampment you played that turn was also nice.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2016, 03:41:23 pm »
+3

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?
The main reasons were to help you track your actions, and get rid of the Band of Misfits issue.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2016, 07:06:21 pm »
0

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2016, 07:34:25 pm »
+3

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
No, it gets set aside and then stays set aside. That doesn't stop it from being "yours" so it would count for e.g. Gardens at game end.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2016, 09:21:38 pm »
+1

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
No, it gets set aside and then stays set aside. That doesn't stop it from being "yours" so it would count for e.g. Gardens at game end.
Neat! So it would just kind of Island itself away.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2016, 09:35:43 pm »
0

Seaway on Gladiator, does the +Buy also apply for the Fortune?
I think yes, but I'm not sure.

Seaway Text:
Quote
Gain an Action card costing up to 4.
Move your +1 Buy token to its pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Buy).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2016, 06:45:11 am »
0

Yes. Same for Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts (you can put the token on the pile because it is an action pile, as determined by the randomizer), as well as Catapult/Rocks.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2016, 07:23:37 am »
0

So I can use Seaway on Small Castle or Opulent Castle (with cost reduction), but not Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts, as they require an action pile?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2016, 07:29:45 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

That's hilarious. I am sad to have seen this gone. :D
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2016, 07:30:10 am »
0

So I can use Seaway on Small Castle or Opulent Castle (with cost reduction), but not Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts, as they require an action pile?
Yes. Although good luck playing most of them.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2016, 07:08:37 am »
0

Here is a rules question on reddit about KC-Archive from /u/Zungryware:

Quote
So I have 5 cards left in my deck, empty discard, and I play King's Court on an Archive. This would mean that the first Archive would have 3 cards under it, and would be discarded in 2 turns, the second would have 2 cards under it and be discarded next turn, and the third would have no cards under it and be discarded this turn. If all three are discarded at different turns, how would that work with King's Court? With this situation, do King's Court and Archive get discarded at the same time always?

So people are arguing whether you KC should be discarded after second turn where it ceases to do anything or whether it stays out until the first Archive is done doing Archive stuff. Which one is right?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2016, 11:04:02 am »
+1

Here is a rules question on reddit about KC-Archive from /u/Zungryware:

Quote
So I have 5 cards left in my deck, empty discard, and I play King's Court on an Archive. This would mean that the first Archive would have 3 cards under it, and would be discarded in 2 turns, the second would have 2 cards under it and be discarded next turn, and the third would have no cards under it and be discarded this turn. If all three are discarded at different turns, how would that work with King's Court? With this situation, do King's Court and Archive get discarded at the same time always?

So people are arguing whether you KC should be discarded after second turn where it ceases to do anything or whether it stays out until the first Archive is done doing Archive stuff. Which one is right?

The KC stays as long as the Archive stays. Donald has made a ruling about this here, regarding TR + Outpost.

He calls it a tentative ruling, but as far as I know, it still stands. We got deep into Durations in this thread, where Donald also participated, and the ruling mentioned above was brought up. We concluded that it made the most sense. Donald didn't comment either way on that particular ruling, so it seems that it stands.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2016, 04:41:01 pm »
+2

The KC stays as long as the Archive stays. Donald has made a ruling about this here, regarding TR + Outpost.

He calls it a tentative ruling, but as far as I know, it still stands. We got deep into Durations in this thread, where Donald also participated, and the ruling mentioned above was brought up. We concluded that it made the most sense. Donald didn't comment either way on that particular ruling, so it seems that it stands.
My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2016, 05:56:53 am »
0

My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.

Does this change Throne Room -  Tactician?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2016, 11:20:41 am »
+1

My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.

Does this change Throne Room -  Tactician?

Yes, it changes how long the Throne Room stays in play when you use it to play Tactician. It doesn't change the fact that you still only get the Duration bonus once.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 11:22:03 am by LastFootnote »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2016, 12:20:49 pm »
0

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2016, 06:23:57 pm »
0

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?
Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2016, 01:13:33 am »
0

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2016, 11:22:24 am »
+1

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?

The first Throne Room is discarded. Same with TR/TR/Duration/Duration. Only a Throne Room that actually played a Duration stays out.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2016, 04:44:54 pm »
0

Quick sanity check: If I play BoM as Raze and trash it, I reveal 5 cards, right? That's gotta be useful occasionally.

Don't try this at home with Overlord.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2016, 02:35:50 pm »
0

Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.

I wonder if the guys at ShuffleIT have been advised of this. Although it will only come up every now in then in games, the way TR variants work with Durations have to be programmed in a completely other way.

On to revise my rules document...

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2016, 03:00:19 pm »
+1

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2016, 03:17:08 pm »
0

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

Clearly, it is covered by that language.  "such as Disciple or Throne Room" is only providing examples of how "played multiple times by a card" could happen. Extending this to include Procession and King's Court is an exercise left to the reader.


Nevermind... I see now you are saying that the Duration doesn't get discarded.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 03:28:14 pm by Deadlock39 »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2016, 04:16:33 pm »
+3

That's as simple as changing the language of "is" to "would be", covering any situations where the Duration is removed from play prematurely. Obviously this isn't an official ruling, but this is how I would interpret it.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2017, 02:57:03 pm »
0

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2017, 06:55:44 pm »
0

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.

When you gain Border Village there are two different effects that trigger, Travelling Fair's topdecking ability and Border Village's gain a cheaper card ability. You can choose the order in which you apply them. Then, when you gain Bridge, Travelling Fair's effect triggers for that as well.

If I choose to topdeck BV before gaining Bridge:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I topdeck BV
4. I gain Bridge to my discard pile
5. I topdeck Bridge

If I choose to gain Bridge before topdecking BV:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I gain Bridge to my discard pile. BV is covered up so Travelling Fair loses track of it.
4. I topdeck Bridge
5. I try to topdeck BV but Travelling Fair has lost track of it.

Quote
Either to deck or discard.
The card is gained to the discard first, then optionally put on the deck with Travelling Fair. This is called "visiting" the discard pile.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2017, 08:05:40 am »
0

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2017, 08:09:34 am »
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Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

Yes.

GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2017, 10:24:33 am »
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Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?

Think of "2 actions" in the exact same way you would think of "2 cards." +2 cards means "draw 2 cards". "+2 actions" means "add 2 actions to your action pool." So they are both things you do immediately. Even though you won't use those actions until the card is finished being resolved, you get them immediately, and they're in your action pool.

Oh, and welcome to the site!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:01:22 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2017, 10:59:52 am »
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This goes back to Mining Village. And it works the same for coins. Trash Mining Village and you still have the Actions and the coins. Trash Copper with Counterfeit and you still have the $2 for playing the Copper twice.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2017, 12:12:15 pm »
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Also, even if you had trashed the card before it gave you a bonus, you would still get the bonus.  A card doesn't have to be in play to keep on doing things.
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