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scott_pilgrim

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Simple Rules Questions
« on: June 12, 2016, 02:40:00 am »
+2

I just want to double-check that all of these are right.  In all cases, I bought Travelling Fair earlier in the turn.

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
2. I buy Stonemason, overpaying, gaining BV then Bridge and BV then Procession.  Depending on the gain order, I can do (BV and Procession) in any order, and (BV and Bridge) in any order, and I could have switched those two groups if I wanted (I could have done (BV and Bridge) then (BV and Procession)), but if the Stonemason's going on top of my deck, he's the last to go, since the overpay effect happens on buy.  I couldn't finish with an ordering like BV-BV-Bridge-Procession (if the BV's are consecutive they have to be in the middle).
3. A Haggler wants to join in on this party.  I can resolve it before or after the Stonemason overpay effect.  So I can go like Poor House-((BV-Procession)-(BV-Bridge))-Stonemason or ((BV-Procession)-(BV-Bridge))-Poor House-Stonemason, where the parentheses denote that I can choose the ordering of the stuff inside them.  These are my only options.
4. If I am doing some shenanigans involving Stonemason, BV, Haggler, etc., I can choose to put anything I want in my discard pile and anything else on top of my deck.  There's nothing stopping me from putting some on top of my deck and some in my discard pile (barring Nomad Camp and Villa).
5. If I gain Villa, it goes to my hand, assuming that's where I want it.  I could also choose to have it go to the top of my deck.  I could not choose to have it go to my discard pile.
6. Hagglers gain stuff from cards bought via Black Market.
7. Bridge reduces the cost of cards in the Black Market.
8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?
9. Cards bought from the Black Market end up on top of their Haggler gains.

I think that's all for now, but I might come up with more later.
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werothegreat

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 10:35:10 am »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Everything else looks fine.  Just remember that if you choose to put Border Village in your discard or on your deck first, then its gain on top of it, you have lost track of Border Village (matters for Summon).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 10:54:01 am »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.
I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 11:01:00 am »
+3

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 11:03:10 am »
+2

I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
At most 1 Knight goes into the Black Market deck, not multiple of them.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 01:09:16 pm »
+1

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.
Which is relevant because 'no visiting' does not apply to Travelling Fair:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15464.msg600712#msg600712
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 01:11:00 pm »
+1

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Well, the rule is that you only put one card from each pile in the Black Market deck. You can choose that card randomly or however you wish.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 01:17:35 pm »
0

I think it would work like knights, so there would be one of every castle, and one of each half of the split piles. It seems right in my head, but I'm not sure.
At most 1 Knight goes into the Black Market deck, not multiple of them.
I was on the wiki once, and somewhere on the black market page it mentioned that all knights go into the black market deck because they are each different cards.

Edit: nevermind, I just looked at the wiki, you are right. So I guess one castle would be added, determined randomly, and only one of the two different cards from the split piles.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 01:19:24 pm by Doom_Shark »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 03:37:22 pm »
0

8. Are there any official rules for setting up the Black Market with split piles?

Nope.

Well, the rule is that you only put one card from each pile in the Black Market deck. You can choose that card randomly or however you wish.

While you're here, Jeebus, I added Empires stuff to the Triggered Effects page.  Want to glance at them and make sure everything's correct?  I promise not to willy nilly revert any changes you make.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 09:15:28 pm »
0

While you're here, Jeebus, I added Empires stuff to the Triggered Effects page.  Want to glance at them and make sure everything's correct?  I promise not to willy nilly revert any changes you make.

Sure, but I first want to do that categorization for my own document, and I haven't gotten that far yet. (I'm sure AJD could do it too though.)

scott_pilgrim

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2016, 01:27:16 am »
0

1b. I actually came to that conclusion originally but then I couldn't figure out how I got it, but it makes sense again.  So I can still do BV first on top, then Bridge on top of that, right?
3b. When I gain stuff from Haggler buys, I can still top-deck everything, and the bought card ends up on top.  The same is true if I buy the card from the Black Market with Hagglers in play.
10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
11. You cannot overpay for Stonemason by $0.  You can overpay by just P.  You can overpay for Stonemason by $1 or P (or debt?) or more if Stonemason costs $0 because of cost reduction.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 03:53:46 am »
+1

1b. I actually came to that conclusion originally but then I couldn't figure out how I got it, but it makes sense again.  So I can still do BV first on top, then Bridge on top of that, right?
3b. When I gain stuff from Haggler buys, I can still top-deck everything, and the bought card ends up on top.  The same is true if I buy the card from the Black Market with Hagglers in play.
10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
11. You cannot overpay for Stonemason by $0.  You can overpay by just P.  You can overpay for Stonemason by $1 or P (or debt?) or more if Stonemason costs $0 because of cost reduction.

1b and 3b. sounds right.
10. Yes.
11. You can't overpay by debt.  It's in the rulebook.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 05:03:06 am »
+4

10. Library skips the -1 card token, and just keeps letting you draw until you have seven cards in hand.
10. Yes.
The Library doesn't merely skip the -1 card token, it removes it (though that might have been what you meant by 'skipping it') unless you already have at least 7 cards remaining in hand when you play it.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 05:35:58 pm »
0

12. Actions don't get set to 0 at the end of your action phase, right?  If I play 10 Villages, then go to my buy phase and buy Villa, I go back to my action phase with 12 actions?
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2016, 05:41:40 pm »
+1

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:47:17 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2016, 05:53:48 pm »
+3

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Going back to your Action phase does not prevent effects from resolving.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2016, 05:56:05 pm »
+2

12. Actions don't get set to 0 at the end of your action phase, right?  If I play 10 Villages, then go to my buy phase and buy Villa, I go back to my action phase with 12 actions?

Yes.

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Yes, you still resolve everything.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2016, 06:56:11 pm »
+1

13. Hang on now I have a serious question.  If I overpay by Stonemason to get Villa, Villa says, when I gain it, I return to my action phase.  But I still haven't gained the Stonemason yet from having bought it.  Do I still get the Stonemason, even though it's now my action phase?  Do I just finish resolving everything I had to do because of things that happened in my buy phase, and then after all of that's done, I go on playing actions?  (Edit: same question goes for gaining stuff from buys with Haggler in play, though I would assume this will be consistent with the Stonemason situation.)

Yes, you still resolve everything.

Remember that you'll resolve the other stuff in your action phase, which will be unusual. So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase. But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa, you might want to grab the Villa first so you can gain the Silver to your hand.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 11:02:51 pm by chipperMDW »
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AJD

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2016, 08:55:35 pm »
+1

But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa

Sadly, Stonemason's on-buy only gains Actions.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 11:01:33 pm »
0

But if you want to Stonemason some Rocks (hey, that's thematic) instead of Peddler with your Villa

Sadly, Stonemason's on-buy only gains Actions.

So it does. Well, darn.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2016, 03:15:11 pm »
+4

The official ruling from DXV on the Black Market/split piles question was "Look into your heart."
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 03:25:05 pm »
0

Why is this thread pinned?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2016, 03:40:38 pm »
+4

Why is this thread pinned?

Because other people can ask their own simple rules questions in it as well.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 10:35:12 am »
0

So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase.

Wait, but if I choose two cards to gain with Stonemason (Peddler and Villa) and they are valid at the point of choosing, it shouldn't matter in which order I gain them. Even if I gain Villa first, return to my Action phase and Peddler costs $8 again, I should still gain it because when I chose to gain it, it cost $4. I have absolutely no idea if this is right. I just want someone to ultimately verify or falsify this.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 10:57:46 am »
+2

So if Peddler has reduced its cost to $4 during your buy phase and you want to Stonemason a Villa and a Peddler, you'd better get the Peddler first because it'll revert back to costing $8 (assuming no other cost reduction) when you gain Villa and go back to your action phase.

Wait, but if I choose two cards to gain with Stonemason (Peddler and Villa) and they are valid at the point of choosing, it shouldn't matter in which order I gain them. Even if I gain Villa first, return to my Action phase and Peddler costs $8 again, I should still gain it because when I chose to gain it, it cost $4. I have absolutely no idea if this is right. I just want someone to ultimately verify or falsify this.

I'm pretty sure chipperMDW is correct, and that it works like this:

When an effect says, "gain a card costing x", that means "choose a card, then gain it". When you gain two cards, you have to first gain one, then the other. Each time you gain one, you first choose, then gain.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 11:07:25 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2016, 11:26:03 am »
+3

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2016, 11:42:49 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
Okay, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2016, 12:00:34 pm »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2016, 12:03:19 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2016, 12:19:05 pm »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
I thought you needed to reveal the Gold/Plunder on the first play to prevent the set-aside clause.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2016, 12:32:03 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?
2) What happens if I play Procession on encampment?

2) If you didn't reveal a Gold or Plunder either of the 2 times you played it, then it will get set aside and thus fail to trash due to lose-track. You'll still get an action card costing more, because that's not dependent upon trashing.
I thought you needed to reveal the Gold/Plunder on the first play to prevent the set-aside clause.

You need to reveal on both plays. If you don't reveal on either of them, it sets itself aside.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2016, 12:33:57 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2016, 01:20:50 pm »
+2

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2016, 03:11:38 pm »
+1

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2016, 03:24:41 pm »
0

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?

I think so. I'm not sure what Donald's primary motivation was, but making it easier to reach Plunder was definitely a key issue, and making it so you couldn't buy back an Encampment you played that turn was also nice.
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Donald X.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2016, 03:41:23 pm »
+4

I assume the main reason it waits though is to allow you to buy a Plunder that turn?
The main reasons were to help you track your actions, and get rid of the Band of Misfits issue.
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ConMan

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2016, 07:06:21 pm »
0

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2016, 07:34:25 pm »
+4

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
No, it gets set aside and then stays set aside. That doesn't stop it from being "yours" so it would count for e.g. Gardens at game end.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2016, 09:21:38 pm »
+1

If you get an Encampment from the Black Market, then when you play it and fail to reveal a Gold or Plunder you'd still set it aside, right? Then what? There's no pile to return it to but it's not in play so does it still get discarded during clean-up?
No, it gets set aside and then stays set aside. That doesn't stop it from being "yours" so it would count for e.g. Gardens at game end.
Neat! So it would just kind of Island itself away.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2016, 09:35:43 pm »
0

Seaway on Gladiator, does the +Buy also apply for the Fortune?
I think yes, but I'm not sure.

Seaway Text:
Quote
Gain an Action card costing up to 4.
Move your +1 Buy token to its pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Buy).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2016, 06:45:11 am »
0

Yes. Same for Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts (you can put the token on the pile because it is an action pile, as determined by the randomizer), as well as Catapult/Rocks.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2016, 07:23:37 am »
0

So I can use Seaway on Small Castle or Opulent Castle (with cost reduction), but not Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts, as they require an action pile?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2016, 07:29:45 am »
0

Two questions:
1) What happens if I play BoM or Overlord as encampment?

1) Exactly the same thing as if you play a regular Encampment... you get +2 cards, +2 actions, then you may reveal a Gold or Plunder from your hand. If you do, nothing else happens, BoM-as-Encampment will be cleaned up like normal and become a BoM again when discarded. If you do not, then you will set it aside (where it immediately becomes a BoM again), and still return it (the BoM) to the supply (onto the BoM pile).

I don't think BoM gets returned to the Supply. When it's set aside it stops being an Encampment and thus stops returning itself to the Supply. It just stays set aside.

No, it gets returned. Just because it stops being Encampment, it doesn't stop instructions from resolving. If you Procession a Band of Misfits as a Fishing Village, you still get the + 2Actions and +$2 at the start of your next turn. It doesn't stop happening just because the "Fishing Village" turned back into a Band of Misfits.

Right, the "return this to the supply" instruction was already given. That instruction still needs to be followed. Interestingly, if it said "return this to the Encampment pile; it would cause weirder issues.

For a while during development, Encampment didn't get set aside, but rather was returned to the Supply immediately. This meant that Band of Misfits or Overlord did get put back on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile. I was glad when that changed.

That's hilarious. I am sad to have seen this gone. :D
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2016, 07:30:10 am »
0

So I can use Seaway on Small Castle or Opulent Castle (with cost reduction), but not Pathfinding/Training/Lost Arts, as they require an action pile?
Yes. Although good luck playing most of them.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2016, 07:08:37 am »
0

Here is a rules question on reddit about KC-Archive from /u/Zungryware:

Quote
So I have 5 cards left in my deck, empty discard, and I play King's Court on an Archive. This would mean that the first Archive would have 3 cards under it, and would be discarded in 2 turns, the second would have 2 cards under it and be discarded next turn, and the third would have no cards under it and be discarded this turn. If all three are discarded at different turns, how would that work with King's Court? With this situation, do King's Court and Archive get discarded at the same time always?

So people are arguing whether you KC should be discarded after second turn where it ceases to do anything or whether it stays out until the first Archive is done doing Archive stuff. Which one is right?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2016, 11:04:02 am »
+1

Here is a rules question on reddit about KC-Archive from /u/Zungryware:

Quote
So I have 5 cards left in my deck, empty discard, and I play King's Court on an Archive. This would mean that the first Archive would have 3 cards under it, and would be discarded in 2 turns, the second would have 2 cards under it and be discarded next turn, and the third would have no cards under it and be discarded this turn. If all three are discarded at different turns, how would that work with King's Court? With this situation, do King's Court and Archive get discarded at the same time always?

So people are arguing whether you KC should be discarded after second turn where it ceases to do anything or whether it stays out until the first Archive is done doing Archive stuff. Which one is right?

The KC stays as long as the Archive stays. Donald has made a ruling about this here, regarding TR + Outpost.

He calls it a tentative ruling, but as far as I know, it still stands. We got deep into Durations in this thread, where Donald also participated, and the ruling mentioned above was brought up. We concluded that it made the most sense. Donald didn't comment either way on that particular ruling, so it seems that it stands.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2016, 04:41:01 pm »
+4

The KC stays as long as the Archive stays. Donald has made a ruling about this here, regarding TR + Outpost.

He calls it a tentative ruling, but as far as I know, it still stands. We got deep into Durations in this thread, where Donald also participated, and the ruling mentioned above was brought up. We concluded that it made the most sense. Donald didn't comment either way on that particular ruling, so it seems that it stands.
My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2016, 05:56:53 am »
0

My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.

Does this change Throne Room -  Tactician?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2016, 11:20:41 am »
+2

My ruling is that Thrones on Durations stay out until the Duration goes away. This applies even in cases where the Duration doesn't do two more things, e.g. Throne on Gear when you only set aside cards once.

Does this change Throne Room -  Tactician?

Yes, it changes how long the Throne Room stays in play when you use it to play Tactician. It doesn't change the fact that you still only get the Duration bonus once.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 11:22:03 am by LastFootnote »
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Jeebus

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2016, 12:20:49 pm »
+1

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?

Donald X.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2016, 06:23:57 pm »
0

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?
Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.
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werothegreat

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2016, 01:13:33 am »
0

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2016, 11:22:24 am »
+1

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?

The first Throne Room is discarded. Same with TR/TR/Duration/Duration. Only a Throne Room that actually played a Duration stays out.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2016, 04:44:54 pm »
0

Quick sanity check: If I play BoM as Raze and trash it, I reveal 5 cards, right? That's gotta be useful occasionally.

Don't try this at home with Overlord.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2016, 02:35:50 pm »
0

Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.

I wonder if the guys at ShuffleIT have been advised of this. Although it will only come up every now in then in games, the way TR variants work with Durations have to be programmed in a completely other way.

On to revise my rules document...

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2016, 03:00:19 pm »
+2

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2016, 03:17:08 pm »
0

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

Clearly, it is covered by that language.  "such as Disciple or Throne Room" is only providing examples of how "played multiple times by a card" could happen. Extending this to include Procession and King's Court is an exercise left to the reader.


Nevermind... I see now you are saying that the Duration doesn't get discarded.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 03:28:14 pm by Deadlock39 »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2016, 04:16:33 pm »
+3

That's as simple as changing the language of "is" to "would be", covering any situations where the Duration is removed from play prematurely. Obviously this isn't an official ruling, but this is how I would interpret it.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2017, 02:57:03 pm »
0

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2017, 06:55:44 pm »
0

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).
I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.

When you gain Border Village there are two different effects that trigger, Travelling Fair's topdecking ability and Border Village's gain a cheaper card ability. You can choose the order in which you apply them. Then, when you gain Bridge, Travelling Fair's effect triggers for that as well.

If I choose to topdeck BV before gaining Bridge:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I topdeck BV
4. I gain Bridge to my discard pile
5. I topdeck Bridge

If I choose to gain Bridge before topdecking BV:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I gain Bridge to my discard pile. BV is covered up so Travelling Fair loses track of it.
4. I topdeck Bridge
5. I try to topdeck BV but Travelling Fair has lost track of it.

Quote
Either to deck or discard.
The card is gained to the discard first, then optionally put on the deck with Travelling Fair. This is called "visiting" the discard pile.

timmytimed

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2017, 08:05:40 am »
0

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2017, 08:09:34 am »
0

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

Yes.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2017, 10:24:33 am »
0

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?

Think of "2 actions" in the exact same way you would think of "2 cards." +2 cards means "draw 2 cards". "+2 actions" means "add 2 actions to your action pool." So they are both things you do immediately. Even though you won't use those actions until the card is finished being resolved, you get them immediately, and they're in your action pool.

Oh, and welcome to the site!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 11:01:22 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2017, 10:59:52 am »
+2

This goes back to Mining Village. And it works the same for coins. Trash Mining Village and you still have the Actions and the coins. Trash Copper with Counterfeit and you still have the $2 for playing the Copper twice.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2017, 12:12:15 pm »
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Also, even if you had trashed the card before it gave you a bonus, you would still get the bonus.  A card doesn't have to be in play to keep on doing things.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2017, 05:28:38 pm »
0

If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2017, 05:32:21 pm »
+1

If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?

Yes, but note that you choose for Scheme when you are discarding cards from play during cleanup, not when you play the Scheme.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2017, 05:34:00 pm »
0

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.
I know for sure that you set up the effect for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.
So you're right.
I was : "It's strange, a DS Champion was wrong ..." Sorry !
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 05:39:29 pm by rubikbeggar »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2017, 05:36:08 pm »
+1

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.

You don't have to choose anything for Bridge.

From the Scheme FAQ in the rulebook:

"When you play this, you draw a card, get +1 Action, and set up an effect to happen later in the turn; once, when you discard an Action card from play, you can put it onto your deck." (my bold)

"The Action card can be Scheme itself, or any other Action card you have in play, which might have been played before or after you played Scheme."
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2017, 05:40:03 pm »
+1

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.

Can you explain what you mean by the Bridge example? Nothing is chosen when you play it. And you're definitely mistaken about Scheme, nothing in the instructions of playing the card requires you to choose a card. It simply tells you that you can put "one of your action cards" on your deck when you discard it from play. You'd be right if Scheme said "Choose a card. When you discard that card from play..."
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2017, 07:27:32 pm »
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Bridge lowers the cost of cards when played (as opposed to Highway for example, which has a line on it), which is why it is thronable; same reason why Scheme is thronable but not Herbalist. I think rubikbeggar was just mixing up when the effect is triggered with when the choosing happens.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2017, 07:36:45 pm »
0

Exactly

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2017, 08:44:40 pm »
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If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?
You don't choose the card when playing Scheme; you choose it later, when discarding an Action card from play. That can certainly be a Duplicate that you called this turn.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions , MILITIA VS TACTICIAN
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2017, 11:24:09 am »
0

hello everyone,

i just started playing Dominion this month. Does anyone know "when" the player is supposed to draw out the +5 cards after playing the Tactician? Do you draw the additional 5 cards ONLY when it is your turn to play or you are supposed to draw 10 cards at once already? I am asking because we played it together with the Seaside edition. Im not sure what is the rule when it is played with MILITIA. If I play the Militia against the other player after he played Tactician during his turn, will he lose only 2 cards at hand or will he lose 7 at hand?

What is the rule? :) thanks
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:27:20 am by katyaschweiz »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #75 on: September 03, 2017, 12:12:34 pm »
0

It is exactly and literally what the card says, "at the start of your turn". So after a Militia attack, you'll normally have 8 cards.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2017, 01:02:08 pm »
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Compare the wording on tactician with the wording on expedition. They are different; getting militia'd after an expedition leaves you with three cards.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2017, 01:59:24 pm »
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Hence why it's usually not a good idea to venture on an Expedition if Ghost Ships are prowling the seas.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2017, 10:39:59 am »
+1

is a -1 card token completely punked by "draw to X" like library?  or will you only draw to X-1?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2017, 10:41:34 am »
+6

is a -1 card token completely punked by "draw to X" like library?  or will you only draw to X-1?

The former. Library will draw you up to 7.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2017, 07:29:31 pm »
+5

is a -1 card token completely punked by "draw to X" like library?  or will you only draw to X-1?

The former. Library will draw you up to 7.
And it will clear your -1 Card token at the same time (or technically it will do that first).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2017, 12:05:05 pm »
+1

is a -1 card token completely punked by "draw to X" like library?  or will you only draw to X-1?

The former. Library will draw you up to 7.
And it will clear your -1 Card token at the same time (or technically it will do that first).

Though if you have 7 or more cards when you play Library, nothing will happen; you won't get rid of the token.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2017, 02:27:02 pm »
+2

And that's normal in an algorithmic sense of the game :
while player.hand.size < 7:
    player.draw()

And if player.hand.size ≥ 7, it does nothing.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 02:28:05 pm by rubikbeggar »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2017, 09:29:16 pm »
+1

And that's normal in an algorithmic sense of the game :
while player.hand.size < 7:
    player.draw()

And if player.hand.size ≥ 7, it does nothing.

Correct, though unfortunately for computer science people, the card uses "until", which could imply the much less common "do until" loop:

Do
    player.draw()
Loop Until player.hand.size = 7

This is of course wrong, and if it were right, then playing Library while you already had 7 or more cards would draw your deck.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2017, 02:56:55 pm »
+1

Gosh. By a strictoverly-pedantic reading of the card text (old or new) and FAQ, Library draws your entire deck if you play it with eight cards in hand. I'd not noticed that before.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2017, 11:14:47 am »
+2

Gosh. By a strictoverly-pedantic reading of the card text (old or new) and FAQ, Library draws your entire deck if you play it with eight cards in hand. I'd not noticed that before.

No. In Dominion-land, if you have 8 or more cards in your hand, you have 7 cards in your hand. You just also have additional cards. Unless it says "exactly", there is an implied "at least".
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2017, 11:25:26 am »
+6

Gosh. By a strictoverly-pedantic reading of the card text (old or new) and FAQ, Library draws your entire deck if you play it with eight cards in hand. I'd not noticed that before.

No. In Dominion-land, if you have 8 or more cards in your hand, you have 7 cards in your hand. You just also have additional cards. Unless it says "exactly", there is an implied "at least".

How many months of the year have 28 days?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2017, 11:30:09 am »
+14

Gosh. By a strictoverly-pedantic reading of the card text (old or new) and FAQ, Library draws your entire deck if you play it with eight cards in hand. I'd not noticed that before.

No. In Dominion-land, if you have 8 or more cards in your hand, you have 7 cards in your hand. You just also have additional cards. Unless it says "exactly", there is an implied "at least".

How many months of the year have 28 days?

3.

Well, I mean any number between 1 and 12 is a correct answer to this isn't it? If 12 months have 28 days, then 3 months do...
Or did you mean "Exactly how many months of the year have 28 days?"
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:32:44 am by infangthief »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2017, 10:01:42 pm »
+3

No. In Dominion-land, if you have 8 or more cards in your hand, you have 7 cards in your hand.
...except for in the contexts where you have 7 cards in your hand if you have 7 or fewer? Militia's "Each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand." by a similar (again, let me stress, pedantic) reading might be construed as meaning people have to keep discarding until they have exactly 3 cards in hand, or they can discard no more because their hand is empty. It would certainly make Militia a more powerful attack!
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2017, 01:40:40 am »
+5

No. In Dominion-land, if you have 8 or more cards in your hand, you have 7 cards in your hand.
...except for in the contexts where you have 7 cards in your hand if you have 7 or fewer? Militia's "Each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand." by a similar (again, let me stress, pedantic) reading might be construed as meaning people have to keep discarding until they have exactly 3 cards in hand, or they can discard no more because their hand is empty. It would certainly make Militia a more powerful attack!

Or alternatively a much weaker attack? Yes boss, I have discarded down and now I have 3 cards in hand... and these other ones.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2017, 04:27:41 pm »
+1

Question for Donald (if possible) about Haunted Mirror and Market Square:
Haunted Mirror and Market Square are in hand, and Market Square is the only action in hand.
An effect on my turn allows me to trash the Haunted Mirror.
Can the effect of Haunted Mirror to discard an action to gain a Ghost and the effect of the Market Square to discard itself to gain a Gold both be activated by discarding the Market Square, or do I have to choose which one gets activated?
We're all relatively experienced players (and we're stubborn and generally good at presenting rational arguments) and have different opinions regarding the correct interpretation, so an authoritative answer would be highly appreciated.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #91 on: December 29, 2017, 04:30:23 pm »
0

Well, you can only discard a card once, so my bet is you simply choose to discard via Haunted Mirror (gain Ghost) or discard via Market Square (gain Gold) but I would be shocked if you were allowed to gain both from a single discard.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #92 on: December 29, 2017, 04:46:19 pm »
+5

Question for Donald (if possible) about Haunted Mirror and Market Square:
Haunted Mirror and Market Square are in hand, and Market Square is the only action in hand.
An effect on my turn allows me to trash the Haunted Mirror.
Can the effect of Haunted Mirror to discard an action to gain a Ghost and the effect of the Market Square to discard itself to gain a Gold both be activated by discarding the Market Square, or do I have to choose which one gets activated?
We're all relatively experienced players (and we're stubborn and generally good at presenting rational arguments) and have different opinions regarding the correct interpretation, so an authoritative answer would be highly appreciated.
The things happen one at a time. You trash Haunted Mirror. You can pick to resolve Haunted Mirror's ability first, or Market Square's. Whichever you resolve first, you discard Market Square; then you have no way to discard Market Square to the other ability.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2018, 01:31:43 pm »
+1

I have two simple rule questions, both concerning the drawing of cards.

1) If I have an empty draw pile and a card (such as Night Watchman) says "look at the top five cards of your deck", do I simply do nothing, or reshuffle my discard, and look at the top five cards of that new deck?

2) If I discard a card during my turn, where does it go? Could I redraw it again the same turn?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2018, 01:36:07 pm »
+3

I have two simple rule questions, both concerning the drawing of cards.

1) If I have an empty draw pile and a card (such as Night Watchman) says "look at the top five cards of your deck", do I simply do nothing, or reshuffle my discard, and look at the top five cards of that new deck?

2) If I discard a card during my turn, where does it go? Could I redraw it again the same turn?

1) You reshuffle your discard pile.  If there are cards left in your deck, but not enough (say you have 3 cards in your deck when you play Night Watchman), you first shuffle your discard pile, then slide it under the remaining deck, then do the thing.

2) It goes into your discard pile.  It is possible to redraw it that same turn.  That's why when you play cards, they go into a separate play area; you don't discard cards when you play them.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2018, 02:37:58 pm »
0

Thank ypu, werothegreat - you are truly a giant among men! I knew that drawing, trashing, etc, the top card of your deck triggered a re-shuffle, but for some reason my gaming group thought that "looking" wouldn't.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2018, 06:04:06 pm »
0

how does a throne roomed knight work, if it collides with an enemy knight on the first play?
does the second fail completely?

presumably a procession would still get to grab a card costing 6$, since it doesn't say "if you trashed it..."?

edit: thank enfynet!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 10:36:25 pm by weesh »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2018, 06:27:44 pm »
+3

Throne still plays the card, even if it was trashed on the first play.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2018, 08:57:48 pm »
0

If the "lose track" rule doesn't apply here, how does it apply to anything?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2018, 09:29:55 pm »
+3

If the "lose track" rule doesn't apply here, how does it apply to anything?

It means that the card can't be moved, not that it can't be played. If not for the lose-track rule, the Knight would be put back in play from trash.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2018, 09:46:47 pm »
0

If the "lose track" rule doesn't apply here, how does it apply to anything?

Lose track has always stopped cards from being moved; and nothing else. Doesn't stop cards from being played; or having their cost checked; or anything like that. It does stop cards from being trashed; but only because the definition of "trash" is "to move to the trash from outside of the trash".
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2018, 06:03:21 pm »
0

Does the game ends after last player's night phase ?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2018, 06:07:46 pm »
+3

Does the game ends after last player's night phase ?
It ends after their cleanup, but yes that's after their night phase.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2018, 06:16:43 pm »
0

There are 6 Ghosts, which is clearly meant to be 1 per player. Does this mean it isn't possible to gain more than one Ghost with Exorcist?
(Is there only supposed to be one Ghost in the game per player, or is it a pile of 6 Ghosts regardless of number of players?)

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2018, 06:24:24 pm »
+1

There are 6 Ghosts, which is clearly meant to be 1 per player. Does this mean it isn't possible to gain more than one Ghost with Exorcist?
(Is there only supposed to be one Ghost in the game per player, or is it a pile of 6 Ghosts regardless of number of players?)

There are always 6 Ghosts. You are not limited to one Ghost. I think the number 6 was chosen so that in a 6-player game with Cemetery, each player would be able to gain one.

Edited to add: Also in 2- and 3-player, the Ghosts can be divided evenly among the players. This is probably slightly more relevant.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 06:57:11 pm by singletee »
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Chappy7

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2018, 06:24:43 pm »
0

There are 6 Ghosts, which is clearly meant to be 1 per player. Does this mean it isn't possible to gain more than one Ghost with Exorcist?
(Is there only supposed to be one Ghost in the game per player, or is it a pile of 6 Ghosts regardless of number of players?)

I've had 2 Ghosts.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:48 pm »
0

There are 6 Ghosts, which is clearly meant to be 1 per player. Does this mean it isn't possible to gain more than one Ghost with Exorcist?
(Is there only supposed to be one Ghost in the game per player, or is it a pile of 6 Ghosts regardless of number of players?)

The only stacks that change with the number of players are victory/ruins/curse cards
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2018, 07:06:07 pm »
+2

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17955.0

Quote
it seemed like it would be nice if some other card got you a Ghost. I tried a few things, and one problem was, there weren't very many Ghosts. You didn't get very many with Exorcist, so there weren't very many; space was limited, even with 500 cards. So the new thing had to not make very many Ghosts. And well an Heirloom was perfect, it caps out at one per player. There were a couple quick versions of it and then it locked in. And got paired with Cemetery because of the Ghost angle and wanting to be on a trasher.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #108 on: March 08, 2018, 10:26:01 am »
0

opponent plays a doom against me.
i've got diplomat in hand.

when do i choose to reveal?  before or after I know what the hex will be?
do i have the choice to draw before or after the hex applies (relevant for greed)?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #109 on: March 08, 2018, 10:57:03 am »
+4

opponent plays a doom against me.
i've got diplomat in hand.

when do i choose to reveal?  before or after I know what the hex will be?
do i have the choice to draw before or after the hex applies (relevant for greed)?

You must choose to reveal Diplomat and do the drawing and discarding before the Hex is revealed.

The "First" in Diplomat's text means that you do it right when they've played the attack; before they've followed any instructions on the Attack.

This question used to come up a lot with reactions to attacks such as Pirate Ship and Minion, where the player can choose how to use the card. And in the same way, you must reveal Moat or another reaction before the player makes their choice.

As a side note; first edition Moat didn't have "First", but the rule was still the same. However, the wording was inconsistent with the way other "when" events happened, because "when X happens" in general means "as soon as X is done happening", but "when a player plays an attack" has always been an exception to this. Adding "First" to the reaction wording was meant to clarify this.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:02:17 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #110 on: July 08, 2018, 12:30:02 pm »
0

If you Kings Court a Mining Village and trash it the first time it is played, will you still get to play the Mining Village 2 more times?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #111 on: July 08, 2018, 12:33:11 pm »
0

If you Kings Court a Mining Village and trash it the first time it is played, will you still get to play the Mining Village 2 more times?
Yes. A card does not need to be in play for it to be replayed with a card like King's Court.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #112 on: July 08, 2018, 07:03:02 pm »
0

If you Kings Court a Mining Village and trash it the first time it is played, will you still get to play the Mining Village 2 more times?
Yes. A card does not need to be in play for it to be replayed with a card like King's Court.

But worth noting that it will stay in the trash for the second and third play; and you will not be able to trash it again for more coin.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2019, 09:33:26 am »
0

Is the following argument true?

Assume I already bought the project Sewers. I play Band of Misfits to play Treasure Map. I trash a Treasure Map from my hand, and trash another Treasure Map from my hand by effect of Sewers. I trashed two Treasure Maps before evaluating the "if" clause, thus I can gain four Golds.

I tried it on Dominion Online but didn't gain Golds.

Although this question is so particular in real-play, I am just curious about it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:46:24 am by DEGwer »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2019, 09:52:41 am »
0

Is the following argument true?

Assume I already bought the project Sewers. I play Band of Misfits to play Treasure Map. I trash a Treasure Map from my hand, and trash another Treasure Map from my hand by effect of Sewers. I trashed two Treasure Maps before evaluating the "if" clause, thus I can gain four Golds.

I tried it on Dominion Online but didn't gain Golds.

Although this question is so particular in real-play, I am just curious about it.

Online is correct, that doesn't work. Treasure Map only checks what you trashed while resolving it, and ignores e.g. Sewers. Also Band doesn't work with Map, as you can't trash the original Map from the supply.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2019, 10:04:42 am »
0

Is the following argument true?

Assume I already bought the project Sewers. I play Band of Misfits to play Treasure Map. I trash a Treasure Map from my hand, and trash another Treasure Map from my hand by effect of Sewers. I trashed two Treasure Maps before evaluating the "if" clause, thus I can gain four Golds.

I tried it on Dominion Online but didn't gain Golds.

Although this question is so particular in real-play, I am just curious about it.

Online is correct, that doesn't work. Treasure Map only checks what you trashed while resolving it, and ignores e.g. Sewers. Also Band doesn't work with Map, as you can't trash the original Map from the supply.

Things seems to go as following:
- Play a Band of Misfits.
-- Play a Treasure Map by Band of Misfits. It leaves on Supply.
--- Trash a Treasure Map from hand.
---- Trash another Treasure Map from hand by effect of Sewers.
--- Count the number of trashed Treasure Maps. It is two, thus I can gain four Golds.

In this flow, two Treasure Maps are trashed while resolving Treasure Map on Supply.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2019, 11:36:30 am »
0

No, "if you trashed two Treasure Maps" is a form of "if you did" - that is to say, it checks whether you did what the card told you to. It refers specifically to the two Treasure Maps mentioned in the previous sentence.

If you were to interpret it completely literally, you would gain Golds as long as you had trashed two Treasure Maps at some point during the game (on earlier turns). But that's clearly not what it means.

(The card could actually be phrased "If you trashed both Treasure Maps" to make it more accurate.)

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2019, 12:01:37 pm »
0

MTG uses the phrase “this way” to make this clarification. “Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way...” This makes it clear that if the spell is countered by something else, the thing doesn’t happen.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2020, 10:19:20 am »
+1

I had a game with sculptor (this can be any gainer), royal carriage, innovation and watchtower.

Here's the situation. I played a village, then played some RC. My plan was to then play the sculptor, gain a watchtower and play it through innovation, then call the RC's on the sculptor to gain some more stuff. Dominion online however only presented the option of calling the RC on the watchtower.

The question is if you can call RC on a gainer when play is interrupted by playing the gained action card through innovation?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #119 on: February 26, 2020, 10:46:20 am »
+3

I had a game with sculptor (this can be any gainer), royal carriage, innovation and watchtower.

Here's the situation. I played a village, then played some RC. My plan was to then play the sculptor, gain a watchtower and play it through innovation, then call the RC's on the sculptor to gain some more stuff. Dominion online however only presented the option of calling the RC on the watchtower.

The question is if you can call RC on a gainer when play is interrupted by playing the gained action card through innovation?

Yes, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to do that. Innovation is just a triggered when-gain ability. After you're done with Innovation, you're still doing Sculptor. Sculptor's next instruction is "If it's a Treasure, +1 Villager". This happens now, after you played the Watchtower. (In this case you don't get a Villager, but in theory you could have. You could have gained a Crown for instance, and played it with Innovation.) After that instruction, you're done with Sculptor, and you can call RC on Sculptor.

But note that after you play Watchtower, you should also get the option to call RC on the Watchtower. If you say no to that, THEN (after the potential +1 Villager) you should get the option to call RC on the Sculptor. Are you sure this wasn't what happened?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 10:47:28 am by Jeebus »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2020, 10:54:03 am »
+1

I agree with your theoretical answer, I don't even think the second part of text is necessary to go back having the sculptor as the active card.

Regarding your second comment it could very well be that that is what happened. Although I do not remember the RC button with a sculptor in the corner coming up. I don't have the expansions online but somebody could try.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2020, 11:02:29 am »
0

I agree with your theoretical answer, I don't even think the second part of text is necessary to go back having the sculptor as the active card.
You're right, it was just to illustrate that we're not done with Sculptor. But that would be the case even without the second part.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2020, 12:39:56 pm »
+1

I checked the game, and harryparry played "Sculptor --> gain Watchtower--> play Watchtower with Innovation" in turns 13 and 18. Each time (for me in the replay) the question came up if to RC the Watchtower. When I declined, the next option was in both cases to RC the Sculptor.

Of course, it's always possible that it didn't happen in the real game, but I doubt it.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #123 on: March 07, 2020, 12:31:17 pm »
0

Swindler vs. empty draw pile:

What, if i'm attacking my opponent(s) with swindler, but he don't have any cards in his draw pile? Is he shuffling the discard pile at that point and take the top card from the new built draw pile?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #124 on: March 07, 2020, 12:34:42 pm »
+3

Swindler vs. empty draw pile:

What, if i'm attacking my opponent(s) with swindler, but he don't have any cards in his draw pile? Is he shuffling the discard pile at that point and take the top card from the new built draw pile?

Yes, whenever you need a card from your deck and it's empty, you shuffle. It could be drawing, revealing, trashing, discarding, setting aside...

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2020, 03:10:04 pm »
0

Recommendations:

As far as i know, there are not more than a total of 2 Landmarks, Events, Projects etc. in a game recommended. That imo means, you couldn't take i.e. 1 landmark, 1 event and 1 project, because its a total of 3 things? Did shelters, heirlooms, boons and hexes count to this too?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2020, 03:23:07 pm »
+1

Recommendations:

As far as i know, there are not more than a total of 2 Landmarks, Events, Projects etc. in a game recommended. That imo means, you couldn't take i.e. 1 landmark, 1 event and 1 project, because its a total of 3 things? Did shelters, heirlooms, boons and hexes count to this too?
You can do whatever we want, but yes we recommend no more than two landscapes.

Shelters / heirlooms / platinum / colony don't interact with this; they're just other setup possibilities. Boons and hexes super don't have anything to do with this.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #127 on: March 29, 2020, 01:44:58 pm »
0

Hi there,

am i right, that in tournaments, a Kingdom can even consist the old cards like thief, secret chamber...

I never played on Such tournaments, so who decides, what cards are being used? Judges etc?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #128 on: March 29, 2020, 02:06:27 pm »
0

Hi there,

am i right, that in tournaments, a Kingdom can even consist the old cards like thief, secret chamber...

I never played on Such tournaments, so who decides, what cards are being used? Judges etc?

For online tournaments, no 1st edition removed cards like thief, secret chamber, etc. are ever used because they are not even in the online client.

For online and in-person tournaments, whoever is organizing the tournament decides what cards to use and what cards to not use. For instance, Adam Horton has set up many in-person tournaments in the past and has a banlist of cards he doesn't use (presumably because of fairness, swinginess, and set-up difficulty): http://adamhorton.com/flog/dominion-running-an-irl-tournament/ (see the "II. Format" section). Sometimes there is a focus on certain sets; a tournament now would likely focus on the new Menagerie expansion, for example.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #129 on: March 29, 2020, 03:30:10 pm »
+1

If the question is if the removed cards are somehow officially discontinued from the game of Dominion, the answer is no. If someone with the first edition of Dominion or Intrigue wants to shuffle in all their cards with any other expansion (or even cards from the second editions), that still counts as playing Dominion. And using those cards in a tournament would still be considered a Dominion tournament.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #130 on: March 29, 2020, 05:53:55 pm »
+1

I'd say whether or not 1st edition cards can be used is probably a decision for the organizers, rather than the arbiters.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2020, 04:02:39 am »
0

Quick question:
Can you remodel a P x$ cost to a P (x+2)$ cost?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #132 on: July 12, 2020, 05:24:06 am »
+4

Quick question:
Can you remodel a P x$ cost to a P (x+2)$ cost?

Yes.

Quote from: Alchemy Rulebook
If you use Remodel to trash a card costing , you gain a card costing up to , which could be a card costing , , , , and on down to .
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2020, 06:37:43 am »
0

I just noticed this "rules clarification" for Village Green on the wiki:

"If you play Vassal and discard Village Green, you can react with Village Green to play it, and then Vassal lets you play it too. Vassal is discarded from play that turn, regardless of whether Village Green stays out."

Does this mean that if you discard Village Green with Vassal, you can play Village Green twice?

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2020, 06:48:22 am »
+2

I just noticed this "rules clarification" for Village Green on the wiki:

"If you play Vassal and discard Village Green, you can react with Village Green to play it, and then Vassal lets you play it too. Vassal is discarded from play that turn, regardless of whether Village Green stays out."

Does this mean that if you discard Village Green with Vassal, you can play Village Green twice?

Yes. This is the exactly what Donald X. was referring to in the secret history.

Quote from: Secret history of Gamble
The wording changed late to get rid of a poor Village Green interaction (that Vassal has).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2020, 06:51:04 am »
0

I just noticed this "rules clarification" for Village Green on the wiki:

"If you play Vassal and discard Village Green, you can react with Village Green to play it, and then Vassal lets you play it too. Vassal is discarded from play that turn, regardless of whether Village Green stays out."

Does this mean that if you discard Village Green with Vassal, you can play Village Green twice?

Yes. This is the exactly what Donald X. was referring to in the secret history.

Quote from: Secret history of Gamble
The wording changed late to get rid of a poor Village Green interaction (that Vassal has).
wow. interesting.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2020, 07:18:39 am »
+1

Village Green can cause weird stuff. I think it's the only way you can play a card that is shuffled into your deck. Discard two Village Greens with an empty deck, then play the first one, shuffle, then play the second one.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2020, 09:22:27 am »
0

Why does Vassal get discarded at the end of the turn if Village Green stays out? I'm guessing something related to the stop-moving errata?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2020, 09:48:06 am »
0

Village Green can cause weird stuff. I think it's the only way you can play a card that is shuffled into your deck. Discard two Village Greens with an empty deck, then play the first one, shuffle, then play the second one.

At least online, Village Green has received errata so that's no longer the case; it now requires reveal just like Tunnel.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2020, 10:00:22 am »
0

Why does Vassal get discarded at the end of the turn if Village Green stays out? I'm guessing something related to the stop-moving errata?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20419.msg846450#msg846450
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #140 on: September 30, 2020, 10:40:44 am »
0

Why does Vassal get discarded at the end of the turn if Village Green stays out? I'm guessing something related to the stop-moving errata?

There has never been the case that Vassal or similar cards cause Durations to stay; only Throne Room variants. There were some changes to the underlying rule though.
But I don't think the stop-moving errata could be relevant in any case, since it only dealt with moving covered cards in your discard pile.

Village Green can cause weird stuff. I think it's the only way you can play a card that is shuffled into your deck. Discard two Village Greens with an empty deck, then play the first one, shuffle, then play the second one.

At least online, Village Green has received errata so that's no longer the case; it now requires reveal just like Tunnel.

Wow, I see this version in the Wiki, but I haven't seen anything about it in this forum, in the BGG forum or in the ShuffleIT forum. I assume that it's an official errata. I released the latest version of my rules document in August, and really wish I had known this, because now I have information there that is actually wrong. It's pretty disappointing that neither Donald or Stef posts about it anywhere, or at least lets me know.

EDIT: I googled into this page, which also lists Oracle as another secret errata: http://dominionleague.org/resources
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 10:47:39 am by Jeebus »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #141 on: September 30, 2020, 01:01:49 pm »
0

Why does Vassal get discarded at the end of the turn if Village Green stays out? I'm guessing something related to the stop-moving errata?

There has never been the case that Vassal or similar cards cause Durations to stay; only Throne Room variants. There were some changes to the underlying rule though.
But I don't think the stop-moving errata could be relevant in any case, since it only dealt with moving covered cards in your discard pile.


Ah, I just mis-remembered the cards that play duration cards rule.

Quote
Village Green can cause weird stuff. I think it's the only way you can play a card that is shuffled into your deck. Discard two Village Greens with an empty deck, then play the first one, shuffle, then play the second one.

At least online, Village Green has received errata so that's no longer the case; it now requires reveal just like Tunnel.

Wow, I see this version in the Wiki, but I haven't seen anything about it in this forum, in the BGG forum or in the ShuffleIT forum. I assume that it's an official errata. I released the latest version of my rules document in August, and really wish I had known this, because now I have information there that is actually wrong. It's pretty disappointing that neither Donald or Stef posts about it anywhere, or at least lets me know.

EDIT: I googled into this page, which also lists Oracle as another secret errata: http://dominionleague.org/resources

Looks like you missed this rules thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20507.0
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 01:03:11 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #142 on: September 30, 2020, 01:27:27 pm »
0

Looks like you missed this rules thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20507.0

Yes, thanks. I searched here for "Village Green", but must have done something wrong. That thread is recent, and it seems this errata was already implemented (back in March if the wiki is to be believed). And there is also Oracle. As I said, it's bad that there are errata going on in the dark. Somehow it gets to the wiki, and the Dominion League people, but is not mentioned as an official errata, and it's disappointing that nobody cares to even inform me, since my rules document is meant to be the one place with all the correct rules and rulings.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #143 on: September 30, 2020, 01:34:32 pm »
0

What's the Oracle issue?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #144 on: September 30, 2020, 01:51:39 pm »
0

What's the Oracle issue?
Two cards left, play oracle to reveal 2 village greens, discard. You play one, and now the other is shuffled into the deck.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2020, 02:03:34 pm »
0

What's the Oracle issue?

Check it out in the wiki. "+2 Cards" means it interacts with Way of the Chameleon; "draw 2 cards" means it doesn't.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #146 on: September 30, 2020, 03:23:46 pm »
0

Looks like you missed this rules thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20507.0

Yes, thanks. I searched here for "Village Green", but must have done something wrong. That thread is recent, and it seems this errata was already implemented (back in March if the wiki is to be believed). And there is also Oracle. As I said, it's bad that there are errata going on in the dark. Somehow it gets to the wiki, and the Dominion League people, but is not mentioned as an official errata, and it's disappointing that nobody cares to even inform me, since my rules document is meant to be the one place with all the correct rules and rulings.

I'm assuming it's a Discord thing; Donald has mentioned a few times that more discussion takes place on Discord than here now.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #147 on: September 30, 2020, 03:24:31 pm »
0

What's the Oracle issue?

Check it out in the wiki. "+2 Cards" means it interacts with Way of the Chameleon; "draw 2 cards" means it doesn't.

I never really took notice of the second edition wording change; but I really feel like first edition was simpler and cleaner.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #148 on: September 30, 2020, 03:42:57 pm »
+2

The Oracle and Village Green changes aren't official errata yet; they will be when there are physical copies of those cards with those wordings. For Hinterlands that should be coming up (and there are more rewordings there, but only one other functional change: Trader will exchange the card for a Silver).

Stef wanted these two changes in advance and I said sure.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #149 on: September 30, 2020, 05:31:07 pm »
0

The Oracle and Village Green changes aren't official errata yet; they will be when there are physical copies of those cards with those wordings. For Hinterlands that should be coming up (and there are more rewordings there, but only one other functional change: Trader will exchange the card for a Silver).

Stef wanted these two changes in advance and I said sure.

Okay. So this is different from the errata and rules changes from last September then? Because those were officially announced several places even though the physical cards were not out.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2020, 04:43:25 am »
+1

There has never been the case that Vassal or similar cards cause Durations to stay; only Throne Room variants. There were some changes to the underlying rule though.
But I don't think the stop-moving errata could be relevant in any case, since it only dealt with moving covered cards in your discard pile.

The question is, what exactly is a Throne Room variant? Newer cards like Scepter play a card only once, but are still considered "Throne Room" variants. So the difference between Vassal playing a Village Green that was already played this turn and a Scepter playing a Village Green that was already played this turn is IMO hard to pin down exactly.

So the practical solution (in my understanding) is to say we "know" a Throne Room variant when we see it, and Vassal doesn't fit.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2020, 10:23:37 am »
+1

There has never been the case that Vassal or similar cards cause Durations to stay; only Throne Room variants. There were some changes to the underlying rule though.
But I don't think the stop-moving errata could be relevant in any case, since it only dealt with moving covered cards in your discard pile.

The question is, what exactly is a Throne Room variant? Newer cards like Scepter play a card only once, but are still considered "Throne Room" variants. So the difference between Vassal playing a Village Green that was already played this turn and a Scepter playing a Village Green that was already played this turn is IMO hard to pin down exactly.

So the practical solution (in my understanding) is to say we "know" a Throne Room variant when we see it, and Vassal doesn't fit.

Wouldn't the definition for TR variants be a card that can only ever replay a card (vs a card that can replay a card, but isn't defined as such)? i.e TR variants that only play a card once still use the keyword "replay".
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2020, 10:42:24 am »
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Yeah, TR variants are cards that actually tell you to replay a card - either explicitly (by saying "replay") or implicitly by saying to play it more than once.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2020, 03:55:20 pm »
+1

The Oracle and Village Green changes aren't official errata yet; they will be when there are physical copies of those cards with those wordings. For Hinterlands that should be coming up (and there are more rewordings there, but only one other functional change: Trader will exchange the card for a Silver).

Stef wanted these two changes in advance and I said sure.

Okay. So this is different from the errata and rules changes from last September then? Because those were officially announced several places even though the physical cards were not out.
It's not that same errata; it's not errata I felt like I had to announce. New copies of Seaside / Prosperity / Hinterlands were being printed. Did I have any changes? Yes. Mostly just better wordings. There are three main things that changed: treasures with a when-play now no longer say "when you play this"; treasures that make +$ now use "+$" instead of "worth"; and cards that do something while in play now say "while you have this in play" when that's what they mean. Noble Brigand now has a dividing line but there's no actual functional change there, just a better wording.

Embargo is of course different as per the announced errata. Otherwise the functional changes are +2 Cards on Oracle (thus reverting to what most printed copies say), and Trader using "exchange" instead of "instead" (an actual functional change that normally doesn't matter but which I wanted to simplify some situations and well get rid of a mess).

I don't know when copies will actually appear. It's been months, but. When my copies show up I will mention it. Stef didn't implement Trader but for whatever reason wanted to implement Oracle. And then Village Green, it's a mistake that mostly doesn't matter, which I can't fix for a while, but Stef could just fix it.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2020, 04:04:34 pm »
0

It's not that same errata; it's not errata I felt like I had to announce. New copies of Seaside / Prosperity / Hinterlands were being printed. Did I have any changes? Yes. Mostly just better wordings. There are three main things that changed: treasures with a when-play now no longer say "when you play this"; treasures that make +$ now use "+$" instead of "worth"; and cards that do something while in play now say "while you have this in play" when that's what they mean. Noble Brigand now has a dividing line but there's no actual functional change there, just a better wording.

Embargo is of course different as per the announced errata. Otherwise the functional changes are +2 Cards on Oracle (thus reverting to what most printed copies say), and Trader using "exchange" instead of "instead" (an actual functional change that normally doesn't matter but which I wanted to simplify some situations and well get rid of a mess).

I don't know when copies will actually appear. It's been months, but. When my copies show up I will mention it. Stef didn't implement Trader but for whatever reason wanted to implement Oracle. And then Village Green, it's a mistake that mostly doesn't matter, which I can't fix for a while, but Stef could just fix it.

Thanks. I knew about Trader from that thread.

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Golem
« Reply #155 on: November 03, 2020, 03:59:02 pm »
0

Hi there,

I'm going to play golem.
I also know, that i have only one more action card (saying it would be hamlet) left in my deck.
So, do i have to stop searching or digging for another 2nd action card, when i already have drawn hamlet?

The official faq says, that if i find one action i have to play it. Do i play that card immediately? Or am i forced to dig through my deck, although i have only one more action card and play hamlet after searching the deck and the new shuffled draw pile?
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Re: Golem
« Reply #156 on: November 03, 2020, 04:20:39 pm »
+3

You search until you find 2 or have flipped over your entire deck. (So in your case, yes you keep digging.)

Then, you play all revealed action cards (either 0 or 1 or 2) in an order you choose.

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Re: Golem
« Reply #157 on: November 03, 2020, 05:17:37 pm »
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You search until you find 2 or have flipped over your entire deck. (So in your case, yes you keep digging.)

Do i have to shuffle my discard pile, making it a new draw pile and continue searching?
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Re: Golem
« Reply #158 on: November 03, 2020, 05:35:10 pm »
0

You search until you find 2 or have flipped over your entire deck. (So in your case, yes you keep digging.)

Do i have to shuffle my discard pile, making it a new draw pile and continue searching?

Yes, that's the general rule, whenever you're drawing, if you don't have enough cards in your deck, you shuffle your discard - but keep in mind that the cards you're looking through with Golem don't go into the discard pile until you've found the second action or gone through your whole deck
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Re: Golem
« Reply #159 on: November 03, 2020, 05:37:54 pm »
+1

You search until you find 2 or have flipped over your entire deck. (So in your case, yes you keep digging.)

Do i have to shuffle my discard pile, making it a new draw pile and continue searching?

Yes, that's the general rule, whenever you're drawing, if you don't have enough cards in your deck, you shuffle your discard - but keep in mind that the cards you're looking through with Golem don't go into the discard pile until you've found the second action or gone through your whole deck

To clarify, it's whenever you need to do anything with the top of your deck; not just whenever you're drawing.
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Re: Golem
« Reply #160 on: November 03, 2020, 09:03:09 pm »
0

You search until you find 2 or have flipped over your entire deck. (So in your case, yes you keep digging.)

Do i have to shuffle my discard pile, making it a new draw pile and continue searching?

Yes, that's the general rule, whenever you're drawing, if you don't have enough cards in your deck, you shuffle your discard - but keep in mind that the cards you're looking through with Golem don't go into the discard pile until you've found the second action or gone through your whole deck

To clarify, it's whenever you need to do anything with the top of your deck; not just whenever you're drawing.

Good point.  And this technically isn't "drawing" either, it's revealing cards from the top of the deck
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #161 on: November 06, 2020, 10:21:51 am »
+1

I'm surprised I don't know this, but if I play a village green in reponse to a discard attack and decide to play it right away, do I have to discard back down to 3?

(So concretely, you play Militia, I discard VG Copper, I play VG, get back to 4 cards, discard again (?))

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #162 on: November 06, 2020, 10:48:27 am »
+2

I'm surprised I don't know this, but if I play a village green in reponse to a discard attack and decide to play it right away, do I have to discard back down to 3?

(So concretely, you play Militia, I discard VG Copper, I play VG, get back to 4 cards, discard again (?))

That is not a simple rules question! It was discussed in the Menagerie preview thread where Village Green was introduced, starting more or less with this post. That lead to a discussion about the timing for discard attacks like Militia in general. Both topics continued in this thread. As far as I understand, the old rule stands that Militia causes you to discard one at a time. This means that with Village Green you potentially have to discard back down to 3. I'm not sure if Donald ever ruled on that particular question though.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 10:54:31 am by Jeebus »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #163 on: November 06, 2020, 01:28:45 pm »
+1

I still tentatively plan to change that to, discard all at once, then do the Village Greens.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #164 on: November 08, 2020, 10:57:34 pm »
0

I still tentatively plan to change that to, discard all at once, then do the Village Greens.

I strongly support this change.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #165 on: November 25, 2020, 04:49:10 pm »
0

Does discarding from Exile count for Tunnel's reaction?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #166 on: November 25, 2020, 05:09:49 pm »
0

Does discarding from Exile count for Tunnel's reaction?

Yes. The wording it uses on the mat and in the rules is "discard all other copies of it from here" (as opposed to "put all other copies of it from here into your discard pile"), so it counts. From the wiki:

Quote
Discarding a card from your Exile mat is discarding a card; if it happens other than in Clean-up, it can trigger Tunnel (from Hinterlands) or Village Green.
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Stonemason vs. Potion
« Reply #167 on: January 03, 2021, 05:45:34 pm »
0

i can overpay with potion;

so i have two questions:

1. May i overpay with more than one potion for any good reasons?
2. I'm overpaying with $2 and a potion, could i get 2 universitys?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #168 on: January 03, 2021, 08:38:19 pm »
+2

You can legally overpay by more than one potion, but not for any good reason: nothing costs more than one potion, so you can't gain anything that way.

If you overpay by exactly $2+potion, yes, you can gain two Universities.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #169 on: January 04, 2021, 08:34:34 pm »
0

I still tentatively plan to change that to, discard all at once, then do the Village Greens.

Has a decision been made?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #170 on: January 05, 2021, 01:28:07 pm »
0

I still tentatively plan to change that to, discard all at once, then do the Village Greens.

Has a decision been made?
It's not on my mind. I have no game night currently, etc.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #171 on: August 19, 2021, 03:48:56 pm »
0

Black Market basic rule:

The treasures played in my action phase remain in play until clean up? So, we're saying, if black market would be non-terminal, and i play conspirator after some money, i would get the cantrip effect of consp.?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #172 on: August 19, 2021, 04:28:29 pm »
0

Black Market basic rule:

The treasures played in my action phase remain in play until clean up? So, we're saying, if black market would be non-terminal, and i play conspirator after some money, i would get the cantrip effect of consp.?

Only if you played another Action as well. Black Market is an Action; you play some Treasures while playing Black Market, but those are probably not Actions; and then you play Conspirator, which would be your second Action. Conspirator only gives you the cantrip effect if it's your third action or later.

And yes, Treasures played in your Action phrase remain in play until clean-up (unless something removes them early, such as using Monastery to trash them).
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #173 on: August 19, 2021, 05:46:01 pm »
+1

If the Treasures you played were also Actions, such as with Crown or Capitalism, then yes they would count for Conspirator just like any other Actions would.

Also note that your 2 questions being asked together imply you may be misunderstanding Conspirator. It doesn’t care how many Action cards are in play; only how many have been played so far this turn. Often those two numbers are the same amount, but not always. So even if cards played during Black Market were actions that went away before you played Conspirator; they would still count because they were played.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #174 on: September 04, 2021, 05:06:38 pm »
0

Quote
If you play an emulator such as Band of Misfits, which then plays a Treasure Map, you can't trash the Treasure Map from the supply, so you will fail to gain 4 Golds.

I dont understand, why i'm trashing the Map from the supply? BoM is in play, emulating Map, so the emulated Map tells me to trash itself and another Map from my hand? Do i missunderstand an emulator?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #175 on: September 04, 2021, 05:11:38 pm »
+5

Quote
If you play an emulator such as Band of Misfits, which then plays a Treasure Map, you can't trash the Treasure Map from the supply, so you will fail to gain 4 Golds.

I dont understand, why i'm trashing the Map from the supply? BoM is in play, emulating Map, so the emulated Map tells me to trash itself and another Map from my hand? Do i missunderstand an emulator?

depends whether you're playing with the 2019 emulator/inheritance errata or not.

If you are, the BoM plays the Treasure Map from the supply, leaving it there - it cannot trash itself (can't move the card from the supply), and so cannot have trashed two Treasure Maps, so you don't get the Golds.

If you aren't, then the BoM "becomes" a Treasure Map, trashes itself (leaving play) and a Treasure Map from your hand, and so you didn't trash two Treasure Maps (the BoM is a BoM now, because it left play), so you don't get the Golds.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #176 on: September 04, 2021, 06:45:55 pm »
+2

Quote
If you play an emulator such as Band of Misfits, which then plays a Treasure Map, you can't trash the Treasure Map from the supply, so you will fail to gain 4 Golds.

I dont understand, why i'm trashing the Map from the supply? BoM is in play, emulating Map, so the emulated Map tells me to trash itself and another Map from my hand? Do i missunderstand an emulator?

BoM is in play, emulating Treasure Map; you don't have a Treasure Map in play. So you can't trash a Treasure Map from play. The emulated Treasure Map is itself in the supply, but what it wants you to do (implicitly) is to trash it from play. So you can't trash it from play because it's not in play; and you can't trash it from the supply because it wants you to trash it from play. (This in an instance of the "Stop-Moving Rule": you can't follow an instruction to move a card if the card's location is not where the instruction presupposes it to be.)
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #177 on: September 05, 2021, 12:55:30 pm »
+1

Quote
If you play an emulator such as Band of Misfits, which then plays a Treasure Map, you can't trash the Treasure Map from the supply, so you will fail to gain 4 Golds.

I dont understand, why i'm trashing the Map from the supply? BoM is in play, emulating Map, so the emulated Map tells me to trash itself and another Map from my hand? Do i missunderstand an emulator?
The first instruction on Treasure Map is "Trash this and a Treasure Map from your hand."
The second instruction is "If you trashed two Treasure Maps, gain 4 Golds onto your deck."

BoM has played a Treasure Map that is in the Supply, so when that Treasure Map tries to trash itself, it fails to find itself where it is expecting to, namely in play.  Therefore the Treasure Map in the supply does not get trashed, so you have not trashed two Treasure Maps, so don't satisfy the condition for gaining 4 Golds.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #178 on: September 30, 2021, 11:34:48 pm »
0

I played an Opulent Castle and discarded a Tunnel.

Am I FORCED to gain a Gold?
(An Opulent Castle forces me to reveal what I discard.)
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2021, 01:30:37 am »
+1

I played an Opulent Castle and discarded a Tunnel.

Am I FORCED to gain a Gold?
(An Opulent Castle forces me to reveal what I discard.)

No. This is actually answered in the rulebook:

"Revealing it is optional, even if Tunnel was already revealed for some other reason; you are not forced to gain a Gold."

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #180 on: October 02, 2021, 06:33:08 pm »
0

Border Guard is set aside with Way of the mouse.
I have Lantern, and have a Haunted Woods in play.
I gain a Province.
My opponent plays a Black Cat to play Lantern.
Does she reveal two cards?

(Isn't Lantern's effect different from "during your turns" effect, right?)
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #181 on: October 03, 2021, 02:24:24 am »
+1

You having Lantern and playing Boder Guard reveal three cards.
Opponent (without Lantern) playing Boder Guard reveals two cards.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #182 on: October 03, 2021, 04:29:58 am »
0

Yes, Artifacts (and States) only apply to the player having them. So "Border Guards you play" refers to YOU, the player with Lantern.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #183 on: September 24, 2022, 11:33:17 am »
0

I've throned a duration card and for that, the TR will stay in play too. So would TR count the whole time before it would be discarded as a card in play? Additionally, can i scheme a TR, that thrones a duration in the first turn or the last turn of which the duration does something? I think i can only scheme a TR, if the TR would be discarded (2nd turn)
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #184 on: September 24, 2022, 02:44:42 pm »
+1

I've throned a duration card and for that, the TR will stay in play too. So would TR count the whole time before it would be discarded as a card in play?

Yes, it's in play as long as the Duration card is, and it counts for Peddler and Changeling and Horn of Plenty and so on.

Quote
Additionally, can i scheme a TR, that thrones a duration in the first turn or the last turn of which the duration does something? I think i can only scheme a TR, if the TR would be discarded (2nd turn)
[/quote

Right, you can scheme a Throne Room when it's discarded from play, which means on the same turn the Duration is discarded from play.
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IGG vs Trader
« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2022, 08:10:32 pm »
0

IGG vs Trader vs Border Village

Im confused bout the rulings written to the named cards.

I cant use IGGs cursing, because i dont gain IGG, when i reveal trader for it, but i can use the effect of BV, despite reacting with trader for it?


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GendoIkari

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Re: IGG vs Trader
« Reply #186 on: October 12, 2022, 09:04:15 pm »
+3

IGG vs Trader vs Border Village

Im confused bout the rulings written to the named cards.

I cant use IGGs cursing, because i dont gain IGG, when i reveal trader for it, but i can use the effect of BV, despite reacting with trader for it?

I think it might just be rulings based on different versions of Trader. First edition Trader had you do something instead of gaining a card, so you never actually gained that card. New edition Trader has you gain the card, and then exchange it. So with new edition Trader, both IGG and Border Village should trigger like normal. With first edition Trader, neither IGG nor Border Village should trigger.

Note that on the Trader wiki page, the thing about Ill-Gotten-Gains is written under "Deprecated official FAQ (2016)". And the quote from Donald X. that's written on the IGG page is from a long time ago when new Trader wasn't around.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 09:06:10 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #187 on: October 17, 2022, 12:13:49 pm »
0

Can you play berserker or trail and then exchange it with changing or trader when you gain a berserker? It is effectively being gained to play, and gain to hand can be exchanged.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 12:18:15 pm by IlstrawberrySeed »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #188 on: October 17, 2022, 12:20:46 pm »
+1

Can you play berserker and then exchange it with changing or trader when you gain a berserker? It is effectively being gained to play, and gain to hand can be exchanged.

No. Berserker is not effectively being gained to play, it is gained normally, and then played from your discard pile. After you gain it and it is in your discard pile, you have 2 options:

1) Play Berserker. It moves to in-play, and then when you try to use Changeling to exchange it, the exchange fails because of the stop-moving rule.
2) Exchange Berserker for a Changeling. The exchange succeeds, and then you try to play Berserker but fail to do so because of the stop-moving rule combined with the new rule that says you can't play cards that can't be moved into play.

Under the old rules, you could exchange the Berserker and then play it, it would get played but stay in the supply pile. But new rules say you can't play a card which can't be moved to in-play.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #189 on: October 17, 2022, 12:34:01 pm »
0

Thanks! What about trashing with watchtower?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 12:35:14 pm by IlstrawberrySeed »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #190 on: October 17, 2022, 12:39:51 pm »
0

Thanks! What about trashing with watchtower?

It would be the same thing; you either trash it with Watchtower's on-gain, or play it with Berserker's on-gain, but once you do one of those, the other will fail.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #191 on: October 17, 2022, 02:18:21 pm »
+1

But new rules say you can't play a card which can't be moved to in-play.

Or more accurately, you can't play a card that is lost track of. A Band of Misfits can play any card from the supply even though it doesn't move it to play. Okay, you could say that the card CAN be moved to play, it's just that the BoM doesn't do it. But I still think it's confusing to link this rule to "moving to play", since it doesn't always happen. It's really about losing track, just like the stop-moving rule is. (They are both effectively parts of the lose-track rule).

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #192 on: December 02, 2022, 02:24:27 pm »
0

Are there any ways to draw night cards in mass without drawing treasure cards? (or more than 1 treasure card). Or a night and a treasure?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 03:02:17 pm by IlstrawberrySeed »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #193 on: December 02, 2022, 11:47:33 pm »
0

Are there any ways to draw night cards in mass without drawing treasure cards? (or more than 1 treasure card). Or a night and a treasure?

No, drawing doesn't care about card types
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #194 on: December 03, 2022, 05:37:33 am »
+2

Although there's nothing to stop such a card existing. This is a perfectly rules-legal card:

Night Golem
Night - $4
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Night cards. Put them into your hand, then discard the other revealed cards.

(It's not a very strong card, because by the time it's played, you've probably drawn most of your deck anyway.)
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #195 on: December 03, 2022, 10:05:46 pm »
0

Although there's nothing to stop such a card existing. This is a perfectly rules-legal card:

Night Golem
Night - $4
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal two Night cards. Put them into your hand, then discard the other revealed cards.

(It's not a very strong card, because by the time it's played, you've probably drawn most of your deck anyway.)

Ah, true, although that isn't technically "drawing" per se

(One advantage of that card would be that, since it comes after the Buy phase, you could put a Night card that you just bought into your hand with it - but yeah, I agree that in a lot of games it would be weak, especially if you have a strong deck-drawing engine)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 10:09:05 pm by mxdata »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #196 on: December 03, 2022, 10:43:06 pm »
+2

Yeah putting into hand is different from 'drawing', drawing doesn't care about type.

There's one that can put several other types of cards in hand while always discarding those with only the Night type: Hunter.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #197 on: December 09, 2022, 12:14:52 pm »
0

I understand +cards doesn't care about type, but "drawing" is a concept that in my mind includes "put into hand." I was wondering if any such put into hand card exists that can put into my hand 1+ night cards and 1- treasure cards, with 0+ actions and victories.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 04:15:29 pm by IlstrawberrySeed »
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #198 on: December 09, 2022, 06:07:13 pm »
0

I understand +cards doesn't care about type, but "drawing" is a concept that in my mind includes "put into hand." I was wondering if any such put into hand card exists that can put into my hand 1+ night cards and 1- treasure cards, with 0+ actions and victories.

Depends on what you mean by “can”… if you mean it is possible to play the card and choose to skip actions, then you have things like Library which comes close to what you describe. If you mean that it can’t ever put an action into your hand, but it can put a night into your hand, then no, there’s no such card.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #199 on: December 12, 2022, 02:10:50 pm »
0

Note that actions and victories are 0+; I need something that cannot put more than 1 treasure card in my hand, while letting me night cards. I use hunter for actions and victories, so If necessary I can drain my deck to just treasures and nights.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #200 on: December 12, 2022, 04:05:31 pm »
0

Note that actions and victories are 0+; I need something that cannot put more than 1 treasure card in my hand, while letting me night cards. I use hunter for actions and victories, so If necessary I can drain my deck to just treasures and nights.

It's not clear exactly what you are trying to ultimately accomplish, but cards like Forum and Warehouse are generally good for getting specific cards / card types while avoiding others.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #201 on: December 13, 2022, 03:51:09 pm »
0

It is for a puzzle, and I need a way to stop myself from drawing an infinite number of treasures, while drawing an infinite number of Actions, victories, and nights. Basically, using rogue, watchtower, mandarin, Scepter and hunter, I can play X Sceptars as hunter to draw X Scepters and Y actions/victories, Play rogue to gain mandarin, revealing watchtower to trash, and put the X Sceptars andRogue on your deck. Play X Sceptars, to draw X scepters, rogue, and Y actions/victories. Play rogue, gain and trash mandarin. Repeat.
This gives infintinite action and victory draw, but only Cycles treasures, and is incapable of drawing nights - specifically changing. I need to find a way to draw the changelings in mass without allowing myself to draw more treasures that used.

Warehouse and forum let me draw multiple treasures and discard the actions/victories. So, I was hoping there was something like hunter that prevents me from drawing more than 1 treasure, but lets me draw nights, or something like Adventurer that lets me grab more than 1 Changing per Scepter.

It doesn't sound like that is possible with current published cards.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #202 on: December 18, 2022, 10:56:18 pm »
0

When using Fated and playing Smithy, can I look what I will draw before shuffling?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2022, 05:10:03 am »
0

When using Fated and playing Smithy, can I look what I will draw before shuffling?

The rulebook says yes:
"In games with Fated, you can look through your deck before shuffling, even if you're sure you don't have any Fated cards."

But actually this was already a general rule according to Donald.
The wording "in games with Fated..." makes it sound like this rule is not in effect in games without Fated. Does that mean that the general rule has been removed?

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2022, 11:44:02 am »
0

When using Fated and playing Smithy, can I look what I will draw before shuffling?

The rulebook says yes:
"In games with Fated, you can look through your deck before shuffling, even if you're sure you don't have any Fated cards."

But actually this was already a general rule according to Donald.
The wording "in games with Fated..." makes it sound like this rule is not in effect in games without Fated. Does that mean that the general rule has been removed?
In the post you link, I'm saying that if you play Smithy with two cards left, you can look at those two cards.

In the rulebook text you quote, I'm saying that you can look through every card you're shuffling, in games with Fated.
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #205 on: December 19, 2022, 01:17:00 pm »
0

When using Fated and playing Smithy, can I look what I will draw before shuffling?

The rulebook says yes:
"In games with Fated, you can look through your deck before shuffling, even if you're sure you don't have any Fated cards."

But actually this was already a general rule according to Donald.
The wording "in games with Fated..." makes it sound like this rule is not in effect in games without Fated. Does that mean that the general rule has been removed?
In the post you link, I'm saying that if you play Smithy with two cards left, you can look at those two cards.

In the rulebook text you quote, I'm saying that you can look through every card you're shuffling, in games with Fated.

The rulebook text doesn't actually say that, but I think maybe I understand now. It says you can look through your deck before shuffling, in games with Fated. But I think it's supposed to say "look through the cards before shuffling", which is what you're saying now. You still have a deck when shuffling (per the new 2nd-edition shuffle rule) and that's not what that rule text is meant to refer to.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #206 on: January 17, 2023, 04:58:03 am »
0

When does "the start of your Clean-up" end?

I have played 2 Fishermans and 1 Improve.  No card is in my discard pile.  Can I discard a Fisherman and trash the other to gain a Gold?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #207 on: January 17, 2023, 08:04:51 am »
+1

When does "the start of your Clean-up" end?
When nothing left to do at "the start of your Clean-up"! And when you don't want to use optional things for that.

I have played 2 Fishermans and 1 Improve.  No card is in my discard pile.  Can I discard a Fisherman and trash the other to gain a Gold?
No!
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #208 on: January 17, 2023, 10:03:54 pm »
0

When does "the start of your Clean-up" end?
When nothing left to do at "the start of your Clean-up"! And when you don't want to use optional things for that.

I have played 2 Fishermans and 1 Improve.  No card is in my discard pile.  Can I discard a Fisherman and trash the other to gain a Gold?
No!

I do agree, but what makes us sure?  "When you have nothing to discard (before drawing next hand), the start of your Clean-up ends" is also acceptable, isn't it?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #209 on: January 18, 2023, 04:37:38 am »
+1

When does "the start of your Clean-up" end?
When nothing left to do at "the start of your Clean-up"! And when you don't want to use optional things for that.

I have played 2 Fishermans and 1 Improve.  No card is in my discard pile.  Can I discard a Fisherman and trash the other to gain a Gold?
No!

I do agree, but what makes us sure?  "When you have nothing to discard (before drawing next hand), the start of your Clean-up ends" is also acceptable, isn't it?

Sure, "start of Clean-up" could be referring to the first part of your Clean-up phase. But that's just not how "the start of" phases are used in Dominion. The start of your Action phase, Buy phase and Clean-up phase all come at the very beginning, before you start doing anything else in that phase. It's practically the same as "before the start", but it does count as being in the phase, which could matter in a few situations (like Crown). "The end of" phases work the same way.

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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #210 on: November 18, 2023, 11:39:05 pm »
+1

Shaman for Way of the Mouse is "using this"?
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Re: Simple Rules Questions
« Reply #211 on: November 19, 2023, 09:07:21 am »
+1

Shaman for Way of the Mouse is "using this"?
Yes, Way of the Mouse means that the card is being used in the game. Same with Duchess, and cards with setup instructions like Black Market.
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