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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards  (Read 31513 times)

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Qvist

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The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« on: November 07, 2015, 05:38:30 am »
+16

The Best Cards - Part 1/4

61+ votes for Adventures cards, 98+ votes for the rest.

#43 =0 Chancellor (Base) Weighted Average: 8.5% ▲0.3pp / Unweighted Average: 10.1% / Median: 3.0% ▼3.1pp / Standard Deviation: 15.2%

Chancellor stays the worst card in this list while having almost the same average. It has also a pretty low deviation. It was voted last 37 times and 4 times above average.
#42 ▼1 Great Hall (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 14.1% ▼2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 16.6% / Median: 9.8% ▼8.4pp / Standard Deviation: 17.1%

Great Hall is one rank worse and has a worse average value. It still has a lead over Chancellor of over 5pp. It was voted last 11 times and 4 times above average.
#41 ▲1 Woodcutter (Base) Weighted Average: 15.4% ▲0.1pp / Unweighted Average: 17.6% / Median: 10.5% ▲1.4pp / Standard Deviation: 19.9%

Woodcutter has basically the same average value, but is one rank higher. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted last 8 times and 9 times above 50%.
#40 ▼2 Fortune Teller (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 16.5% ▼9.2pp / Unweighted Average: 16.6% / Median: 11.9% ▼16.4pp / Standard Deviation: 16.2%

Fortune Teller made a big drop of over 9pp and 2 ranks. It has also a pretty low deviation. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking - on the same rank as Great Hall. It was voted last 8 times and 5 times above average, even once on the first rank.
#39 ▼3 Trade Route (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 21.0% ▼10.2pp / Unweighted Average: 25.3% / Median: 19.1% ▼11.2pp / Standard Deviation: 19.1%

Trade Route made an even bigger drop of over 10pp and 3 ranks! It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 12 times above average.
#38 ▼7 Masterpiece (Guilds) Weighted Average: 24.1% ▼14.5pp / Unweighted Average: 26.8% / Median: 21.4% ▼11.9pp / Standard Deviation: 21.3%

And Masterpiece made an even even bigger drop of over 14pp and 7 ranks! It would be still one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last 3 times and 16 times above average.
#37 ▲3 Develop (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 24.9% ▲2.0pp / Unweighted Average: 24.6% / Median: 19.2% ▲1.0pp / Standard Deviation: 18.0%

Develop is slightly better, but climbed 3 ranks. It would be 2 ranks lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted last 3 times and 13 times above average.
#36 ▼2 Sage (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 25.6% ▼7.9pp / Unweighted Average: 29.0% / Median: 24.2% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 22.2%

After losing 5 ranks and 13pp last year, Sage lost again nearly 8pp and 2 ranks. It has the highest deviation in this list so far. It would be 2 ranks higher in the unweighted list. It was voted 6 times last and 15 times above average.
#35 ▲2 Loan (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 26.4% ▼2.6pp / Unweighted Average: 26.8% / Median: 23.8% ▼0.4pp / Standard Deviation: 20.1%

Loan is slightly worse than last year, but is still 2 ranks higher. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It was voted 6 times last and 11 times above 50%.
#34 ▲5 Workshop (Base) Weighted Average: 27.2% ▲2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 27.4% / Median: 23.8% ▲2.6pp / Standard Deviation: 16.6%

Workshop is slightly better than last year, but is now 5 ranks higher! It has a pretty low deviation. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 13 times above average.
#33 Caravan Guard (Adventures) Weighted Average: 29.3% / Unweighted Average: 29.1% / Median: 26.2% / Standard Deviation: 19.6%

Caravan Guard is the first new Adventures card. It was voted last twice and 7 times above average.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 05:38:38 am »
+13

The Best Cards - Part 2/4

#32 ▼7 Tunnel (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 33.5% ▼13.5pp / Unweighted Average: 40.3% / Median: 36.4% ▼18.2pp / Standard Deviation: 22.9%

Tunnel is another big loser in this list. It's over 13pp and 7 ranks worse. It has the fifth highest deviation in this list. It would be still 4 ranks higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 13 times above 70%.
#31 Plan (Adventures) Weighted Average: 37.0% / Unweighted Average: 38.2% / Median: 35.7% / Standard Deviation: 22.8%

Plan is the first event in this list. It has almost the same high deviation as Tunnel. It was voted last once and 5 times above 70% with one being on the first rank.
#30 ▲3 Smugglers (Seaside) Weighted Average: 37.3% ▲4.2pp / Unweighted Average: 38.0% / Median: 33.3% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 20.7%

Smugglers has a clearly better average value and is also 3 ranks higher although it has only a small lead of 0.25pp over Plan. It would be still 2 ranks lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 6 times above 70%.
#29 ▲1 Shanty Town (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 39.0% ▲0.7pp / Unweighted Average: 40.8% / Median: 42.4% ▲5.8pp / Standard Deviation: 18.1%

Shanty Town has almost the same average value, but is slightly better and one rank higher. It would be even 3 ranks higher in the unweighted list. It was voted 5 times above 70%, once on the first rank.
#28 ▼2 Oasis (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 40.1% ▼3.6pp / Unweighted Average: 38.8% / Median: 39.4% ▼6.1pp / Standard Deviation: 20.3%

Oasis lost a bit in its average value and also 2 ranks. It would be even 2 more ranks lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 5 times above 70% with one vote being on the first rank.
#27 ▼5 Oracle (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 40.5% ▼8.9pp / Unweighted Average: 39.5% / Median: 38.1% ▼10.4pp / Standard Deviation: 19.9%

Oracle is the next big loser: nearly 9pp and 5 ranks worse. It's only 0.4pp better than Oasis. It would be 2 ranks lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 6 times above 70%.
#26 ▲1 Storeroom (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 41.2% ▼2.2pp / Unweighted Average: 43.6% / Median: 44.7% ▼0.8pp / Standard Deviation: 20.4%

Storeroom is slightly worse than last year, but is still one rank higher. It would be even one more rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted 10 times above 70% with one first rank.
#25 ▲6 Wishing Well (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 44.1% ▲7.4pp / Unweighted Average: 40.6% / Median: 39.0% ▼8.7pp / Standard Deviation: 21.3%

Wishing Well is a big winner: it's over 7pp and 6 ranks better. It would be 2 ranks lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 11 times above 70%.
#24 ▼1 Doctor (Guilds) Weighted Average: 44.4% ▼4.4pp / Unweighted Average: 45.4% / Median: 42.4% ▼9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 21.5%

Doctor has a worse average value and is also one rank lower. It has only a small lead of 0.24pp over Wishing Well. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 14 times above 70%.
#23 ▲5 Lookout (Seaside) Weighted Average: 45.0% ▲3.5pp / Unweighted Average: 43.7% / Median: 45.2% ▲2.8pp / Standard Deviation: 21.4%

Lookout is over 3pp better and 5 ranks higher in comparism to last year. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 10 times above 70%.
#22 Expedition (Adventures) Weighted Average: 47.7% / Unweighted Average: 46.4% / Median: 46.3% / Standard Deviation: 20.5%

Expedition is the second event. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted last once and 10 times above 70%.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 06:07:16 am by Qvist »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 05:38:44 am »
+15

The Best Cards - Part 3/4

#21 Bonfire (Adventures) Weighted Average: 50.4% / Unweighted Average: 45.7% / Median: 47.6% / Standard Deviation: 25.2%

Bonfire is the second event in a row and the first card above 50%. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It has the highest deviation in this list with 3 votes on the last rank and 19 votes below 30% overall.
#20 ▼2 Market Square (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 51.3% ▼6.5pp / Unweighted Average: 54.4% / Median: 54.8% ▼5.8pp / Standard Deviation: 20.8%

Market Square lost over 6pp and 2 ranks. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 14 times below 30%.
#19 =0 Village (Base) Weighted Average: 51.7% ▼0.8pp / Unweighted Average: 52.5% / Median: 55.3% ▲0.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.7%

Village has less than 1pp difference and is also the first card since Chancellor that stayed on the same rank. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted last once and 12 times below 30%.
#18 Dungeon (Adventures) Weighted Average: 53.5% / Unweighted Average: 55.0% / Median: 59.5% / Standard Deviation: 22.3%

And here is the next Adventures card. It was voted 11 times below 30%.
#17 ▼1 Scheme (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 53.9% ▼4.3pp / Unweighted Average: 55.5% / Median: 59.5% ▼4.1pp / Standard Deviation: 17.6%

Scheme lost a bit in its average value and one rank too. It has a small lead over Dungeon of 0.42pp. It was voted last once and 11 times below 30%.
#16 Guide (Adventures) Weighted Average: 56.0% / Unweighted Average: 56.9% / Median: 57.9% / Standard Deviation: 18.0%

Guide is the next new card in this list. It was voted only 7 times below 30%.
#15 ▼2 Warehouse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 59.3% ▼5.7pp / Unweighted Average: 60.3% / Median: 61.9% ▼7.8pp / Standard Deviation: 18.7%

Warehouse is nearly 6pp and 2 ranks worse. It was voted below 30% 9 times and even on the first rank once.
#14 Gear (Adventures) Weighted Average: 63.7% / Unweighted Average: 63.6% / Median: 69.1% / Standard Deviation: 20.7%

And Gear is the third Adventures card in the last 5 ranks. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 6 times below 30%.
#13 ▲7 Black Market (Promo) Weighted Average: 66.4% ▲21.1pp / Unweighted Average: 61.8% / Median: 68.3% ▲25.9pp / Standard Deviation: 24.8%

Black Market is a big winner. It's over 20pp (!) better and 7 ranks higher, but still not the biggest jump in this list. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted list. It has the second highest deviation in this list with being voted last once and 13 times below 30%.
#12 ▼1 Hermit (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 69.5% ▲1.5pp / Unweighted Average: 66.8% / Median: 71.4% ▲1.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.6%

Hermit is slightly better, but still lost one rank. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It was voted 5 times below 30%.
#11 ▼1 Watchtower (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 69.6% ▼2.0pp / Unweighted Average: 69.8% / Median: 70.7 ▼2.0pp / Standard Deviation: 16.5%

Watchtower lost 2pp and one rank. It has only a small lead of 0.08pp over Hermit. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted list. It has a pretty low deviation with only 3 votes below 30% and 2 first ranks on the other hand.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 01:46:30 am by Qvist »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 05:39:03 am »
+14

The Best Cards - Part 4/4

#10 Amulet (Adventures) Weighted Average: 71.1% / Unweighted Average: 66.7% / Median: 73.8% / Standard Deviation: 23.6%

Amulet is the second best new Adventures card. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. It has the third highest deviation in this list. It was voted last once and 13 times below average.
#9 ▼2 Menagerie (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 78.1% ▼1.2pp / Unweighted Average: 75.7% / Median: 83.3% ▲1.5pp / Standard Deviation: 16.0%

Menagerie is only slightly worse, but still lost 2 ranks. It has a big lead over Amulet of 7pp. It has a pretty low deviation. It was voted last once, 8 times below average and on the first rank twice.
#8 Ferry (Adventures) Weighted Average: 79.8% / Unweighted Average: 77.2% / Median: 83.3% / Standard Deviation: 23.2%

Ferry is the best new Adventures card. It has the third highest deviation in this list with 9 votes below average on one side and 7 votes on the first rank on the other side.
#7 =0 Forager (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 80.1% ▲3.4pp / Unweighted Average: 78.5% / Median: 83.3% ▲4.5pp / Standard Deviation: 18.9%

Forager has a better average value, but still stayed on the same rank. It has a small lead over Ferry of 0.31pp. It was voted last once, 8 times below 50% and 5 times on the first rank.
#6 ▼1 Swindler (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 81.0% ▲0.2pp / Unweighted Average: 78.7% / Median: 83.3% ▼1.6pp / Standard Deviation: 16.0%

Swindler basically didn't change at all, but still lost one rank. It was voted 6 times below average and on the first rank once.
#5 ▼2 Fishing Village (Seaside) Weighted Average: 85.3% ▼0.5pp / Unweighted Average: 85.2% / Median: 88.1% ▲0.2pp / Standard Deviation: 12.7%

Fishing Village basically didn't change as well, but even lost 2 ranks. It would be 2 ranks higher in the unweighted ranking. It has the second lowest deviation in this list as it was only voted below average twice and on the first rank 5 times.
#4 =0 Steward (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 86.3% ▲1.8pp / Unweighted Average: 84.0% / Median: 88.1% ▲3.1pp / Standard Deviation: 14.7%

Steward is better than last year, but stayed on the same rank. It has the third lowest deviation in this list. It was voted below average 3 times and on the first rank twice.
#3 ▲8 Urchin (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 86.4% ▲26.1pp / Unweighted Average: 81.2% / Median: 86.8% ▲26.2pp / Standard Deviation: 17.9%

Urchin is THE big winner this year: 8 ranks higher and over 26pp better, wow! It would be still 2 ranks lower in the unweighted ranking. It was voted 7 times below average and 8 times on the first rank.
#2 ▼1 Masquerade (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 91.9% ▼1.7pp / Unweighted Average: 90.6% / Median: 97.0% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 15.5%

After being a close first rank last year, Masquerade is back being second. It was voted below average 4 times and 34 times on the first rank.
#1 ▲1 Ambassador (Seaside) Weighted Average: 94.2% ▲0.6pp / Unweighted Average: 92.2% / Median: 97.0% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 12.6%

Ambassador is the old new #1. It has also the lowest deviation in this list. It was voted below average 3 times and 31 times on the first rank (less than Masquerade).
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 09:02:46 am by Qvist »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 06:00:39 am »
+5

Develop is criminally underrated. It should not be in the bottom quarter.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 08:28:06 am »
+2

Why is loan higher than trade route and develop
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2015, 08:32:51 am »
+2

Why is loan higher than trade route and develop

Because it's a better card.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2015, 08:33:37 am »
0

I also think Loan is better than Trade Route. No idea why develop is so far at the bottom, though.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 08:45:05 am »
+2

I think Chancellor is still in last place at this point out of pure momentum - people put her there as automatically as they put Chapel and King's Court in first place of their respective lists.  Poor Angela here is easily better than both Great Hall and Woodcutter, methinks.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 08:47:30 am »
+2

I think Chancellor is still in last place at this point out of pure momentum - people put her there as automatically as they put Chapel and King's Court in first place of their respective lists.  Poor Angela here is easily better than both Great Hall and Woodcutter, methinks.

I think if +Buy wasn't so scarce, I'd put Chancellor over Woodcutter, but more often do I find myself going "oh shit I need a Woodcutter" than I go "well I have a spare action so I should get a Chancellor".

Really, they shouldn't even be different cards - adding a +Buy to Chancellor makes it a reasonable $3, if still not that good.

Caravan Guard is pretty bad, it could probably fall a few places.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 08:54:10 am »
+4

Develop is near the bottom because it is hard to utilize. The more skill you have, the more you can utilize it, and the higher you would probably rate it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 08:55:20 am by DG »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 09:11:53 am »
+3

Develop is near the bottom because it is hard to utilize. The more skill you have, the more you can utilize it, and the higher you would probably rate it.

I think this is a big part of it.  Develop was fairly low for me (though not bottom quarter) as a compromise between how good the card is for me (i.e. not very-I have no idea when and how to use it) and how good it is for the truly elite players.

On that note, someone should tell me how and when to use develop!

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 10:50:59 am »
+2

The big surprises here for me are:
Masterpiece, Develop, and Loan so low.
Sage, Oasis, and Bonfire so high.

Masterpiece: So, you're playing big money or a Duke/Silk Road rush.  You have 7 coins (or 8+ coins early, or 5-6 coins in a Duke/Silk Road rush).  What to do...?  Overbuy Masterpiece and be very happy!  It's a pretty limited card, but when Silver is what you want, Masterpiece hits the spot.
Develop: Tricky to use, for sure.  It has a lot of potential in the right kingdom and in tandem with limited gainers (often Silver/Gold gainers).  Even at its worst (well, ignoring Poor House), it's a decent Estate trasher.  Top-decking the gained card(s) can be a big tempo advantage.
Loan: In treasure-less decks, it's like a Junk Dealer that can only trash Coppers.  Junk Dealer is amazing, and so is Loan - in decks where you don't plan to buy or gain additional treasures.  Loan becomes frustrating the moment you add a single treasure you don't want to trash, but it can still have some value if you plan to add treasures late.  I find that treasure-less decks are more and more common as expansions are added, so I look more fondly on Loan.

Sage: Maybe I don't know the right time to get this card, but I've been disappointed every time I've bought it.  Sure, you can find your other opening buy easier.  So it sounds like it might be good with something like Sea Hag or Young Witch, but you really need economy with those cards.  Maybe it's decent with Militia or Cutpurse?  I dunno.  Later in the game (especially with trashing) it approaches a cantrip.  Once you start greening, the filtering is much worse than Farming Village.  And you don't want multiples of Sage.  It's SO low-impact.  It's the Pearl Diver of three coin cards, in my mind.
Oasis: This is a pretty lackluster card.  Sure, if you have only one or two and haven't trashed heavily, it's as good as a Peddler (and better in unusual circumstances).  But Peddler is a card I want to have a bunch of.  I don't get excited about one or two.  Caravan Guard is bad, but Oasis is worse, IMO.
Bonfire: Limited copper-trashing with no benefit.  You want to use this early in the game, otherwise you're likely to have treasures you don't want to trash and/or more than 3 coins.  But you really need more cards early in the game to improve the quality of your deck.  I'm not impressed.  Maybe Bonfire is more valuable when paired with a decent Estate trasher that also gains non-treasures (Remodel, Transmogrify, Develop)?  I guess you can trash Ruins, too.  Meh.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 10:52:56 am by aku_chi »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2015, 10:59:59 am »
+4

Really, they shouldn't even be different cards - adding a +Buy to Chancellor makes it a reasonable $3, if still not that good.
said Donald, then he thought, "Wait, I already have Chancellor and Woodcutter at $3, so to keep it from being strictly better than them, let's bump it to $4 and throw in an interesting on-buy ability or something."
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2015, 11:17:34 am »
+7

Really, they shouldn't even be different cards - adding a +Buy to Chancellor makes it a reasonable $3, if still not that good.
said Donald, then he thought, "Wait, I already have Chancellor and Woodcutter at $3, so to keep it from being strictly better than them, let's bump it to $4 and throw in an interesting on-buy ability or something."

That is exactly the opposite of what happened.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2015, 03:09:49 pm »
+2

Develop is near the bottom because it is hard to utilize. The more skill you have, the more you can utilize it, and the higher you would probably rate it.

I think this is a big part of it.  Develop was fairly low for me (though not bottom quarter) as a compromise between how good the card is for me (i.e. not very-I have no idea when and how to use it) and how good it is for the truly elite players.

On that note, someone should tell me how and when to use develop!

A long time ago, I was watching a Dominion stream and MicQ was in the chat. I asked if he could do a cage match on Develop. He said that unfortunately he had no idea how to play Develop.

A longer time ago, I played a game with Develop, where I spent a minute trying to figure out the right Develop play. I gave up because I didn't want to time out. Two minutes into my opponent's turn, I figured out the play I should have done, or at least one that was strictly better to what I did that turn.

Develop is hard.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2015, 04:13:59 pm »
+2

Bonfire: Limited copper-trashing with no benefit.  You want to use this early in the game, otherwise you're likely to have treasures you don't want to trash and/or more than 3 coins.  But you really need more cards early in the game to improve the quality of your deck.  I'm not impressed.  Maybe Bonfire is more valuable when paired with a decent Estate trasher that also gains non-treasures (Remodel, Transmogrify, Develop)?  I guess you can trash Ruins, too.  Meh.

Well, I don't know. If you have 4 Coppers and a Steward in hand, do you trash two Coppers and buy nothing? Usually you do. Bonfire is the same thing, only without first having to buy Steward. Being able to trash on T1/T2 is pretty big as well.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 04:45:14 pm »
0

Bonfire: Limited copper-trashing with no benefit.  You want to use this early in the game, otherwise you're likely to have treasures you don't want to trash and/or more than 3 coins.  But you really need more cards early in the game to improve the quality of your deck.  I'm not impressed.  Maybe Bonfire is more valuable when paired with a decent Estate trasher that also gains non-treasures (Remodel, Transmogrify, Develop)?  I guess you can trash Ruins, too.  Meh.

Well, I don't know. If you have 4 Coppers and a Steward in hand, do you trash two Coppers and buy nothing? Usually you do. Bonfire is the same thing, only without first having to buy Steward. Being able to trash on T1/T2 is pretty big as well.
I often begrudgingly trash the Coppers with Stewart in that situation.  But it's a bad beat.  I'd rather have an Estate or two to trash.  Or, a 2-cost card worth buying.  Or, a powerful 6-cost card worth buying.  And I know that, with Stewart, I will have an opportunity to remove my pure trash (Estates) soon.  If I use Bonfire early, I'm reducing the purchasing power of my deck.  I would only do so if I had another good way to trash my Estates.  Even in the rare situations where I would consider Bonfire, I'm not thrilled about it; its impact is low.
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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2015, 04:52:23 pm »
0

Develop is criminally underrated. It should not be in the bottom quarter.

So I agree in principle...but in practice, I think almost everybody finds it a very difficult card. I have heard Mic Q stream where he confesses *he* doesn't think he plays the card very well. But if I had been forced to guess, you would have been exactly the person who would find Develop way under-rated, given what I have observed about your style of play (in addition to the quality of play).

No pressure, but anything in particular you can share here?  :)
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 05:55:51 pm »
+4

Man, remember when these rankings started, and Develop was the worst-ranked $3 card by a mile? How times change.
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Limetime

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2015, 07:46:27 pm »
+1

Bonfire: Limited copper-trashing with no benefit.  You want to use this early in the game, otherwise you're likely to have treasures you don't want to trash and/or more than 3 coins.  But you really need more cards early in the game to improve the quality of your deck.  I'm not impressed.  Maybe Bonfire is more valuable when paired with a decent Estate trasher that also gains non-treasures (Remodel, Transmogrify, Develop)?  I guess you can trash Ruins, too.  Meh.
Bonfire is a complete speed thrasher. It is kind of like mine, except it trashes two cards instead of about 5. You can also get rid of early game utilities.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 07:49:25 pm by Limetime »
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faust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2015, 08:01:17 pm »
+3

Bonfire is a complete speed thrasher. It is kind of like mine, except it trashes two cards instead of about 5. You can also get rid of early game utilities.

Not sure if intentional...
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2015, 08:12:17 pm »
0

Bonfire is pretty strong actually
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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 08:33:18 pm »
0

I suppose I don't value Mint very highly, either.  And Bonfire is a good deal weaker.  Of course, it's certainly possible that I am undervaluing Bonfire.  If so, I look forward to losing a game due to competent use of Bonfire.  If there aren't any good 5+ cost cards, I would look favorably towards opening Bonfire + Remodel (or similar).
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 08:46:54 pm »
+1

I didn't vote Fortune Teller first!
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