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theory

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Schedule and Results, Part II
« on: December 19, 2011, 10:08:05 am »
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Please post all match results in this topic.  The current bracket is here.  The previous topic can be found here.

The current round is Division Finals.  The current round ends on January 15, 2011, 11:59:59PM EST. 

Overall schedule:
Code: [Select]
28-Nov   4-Dec   Round 1
5-Dec   11-Dec   Round 2
12-Dec   18-Dec   Round 3
19-Dec   25-Dec   Round 4
26-Dec   1-Jan   Round of 16 / Division Semifinals
2-Jan   8-Jan   Round of 16 / Division Semifinals
9-Jan   15-Jan   Quarterfinal / Division Finals
16-Jan   22-Jan   Semifinal
23-Jan   29-Jan   Final
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mischiefmaker

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 02:28:43 pm »
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From the previous thread, here are the missing game logs from the Round 3 matchup between mischiefmaker (11) and ARTjoMS (6):

Game 2: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111218-074659-0e6694c8.html
Game 6: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111218-083154-f778478d.html (Yep, still stings. But I encourage folks to check this one out.)

@exclams: Remodel/FG is quite fast. I'm not particularly good at tweaking the sim and I get 13.7 turns to 4 provinces and a convincing 59-36 win rate over Envoy-BM. The play rules are pretty easy too: buy one Remodel, Remodel everything to Fool's Gold unless you can buy Provinces. Adding a Library speeds things up a bit, clocking in at 13.2 turns to 4 Provinces.

Note that this might underestimate the strategy a bit, since you can Remodel Provinces to Provinces for additional speed, and having a late-game option to trash FG for Gold might be something the sim doesn't handle well either.
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first

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 05:16:14 pm »
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Chapel Division
First 4:0 Qvist

Game 1 First 78:59
Key cards - Black Market, Bazaar, University, Envoy, Fairgrounds, Colony/Platinum

BM/Fairgrounds looks very nice, and my best record for Carny is 12 vp for each Fairgrounds, and there is Bazaar to accommodate all terminals especially Envoy, so here I go. We got Potion with $4 but for $3 I grabbed Black Market while Qvist bought Silver, which didn't really matter much since I didn't use my first Black Market play to buy any cards from it.

I got three Universities and the Bazaar split was 8:2, which I think is the deciding factor. I was lucky to pull out Mountebank from the Black Market, when Qvist later bought Familiar, and the curse split was 3:3 (Qvist trashed two). Qvist grabbed Harvest instead of University on turn 7, which was not good enough considering he would miss a few key cards. The game ended on pile (Fairgroudns/Bazaar/Wishing Well) with 4:4 Fairgrounds and 8vp each but my buy power was greater and won with 4/2 Colonies.

Game 2 First 51:45
Key cards - Lab, Nobles, Mint, Rabble

Very boring $3/$4 comparing to Lab/Nobles engine, so we both opened Silver/Silver. I spent all $6 on Nobles, whereas Qvist got Gold first and quickly bought 3 Provinces. At some point I was 1:3 Province behind but 7:1 Nobles ahead, so the total vp's were the same but my deck had better draw power. After Duchy Dance and 7 vp ahead with no +buy Qvist couldn't buy the last Province so the game ended on piles (Nobles/Duchy/Estate)

Game 3 First 50:23
Key cards - Tactician, Tournament, Steward, Haggler, Jester, Horn of Plenty

Tactician/Tournament is obvious at first glance, but Qvist admitted that he had a bad win rate with Tactician, so he opened Hagger/nothing against Tactician/nothing. My plan was executed perfectly : got Steward turn 3, played Tactician turn 4, trashed two estates and bought Gold turn 5, played Tactician turn 6, bought Province/Tournament turn 7, played Tactician turn 8, won Followers turn 9. The game was basically over after that.

Game 4 Tie 36:36
Key cards - Fool's Gold, Horse Traders, Ghost Ship, Venture, Trading Post

It's very tempting to play around Fool's Gold, which seems like the right choice with Horse Traders providing early +buy and Venture to go through the deck for more FG. I opened Silver/Horse Traders against Qvits's Fool's Gold/Horse Traders, which was the mistake. FG split was 4:6 with Qvist having more, and the last one was bought on turn 6 ! Qvist had a big advantage so I tried to grab more Ventures and it was 7:3 in the end. I was behind all the time, so I broke the PPR. Qvist bought Crossroads instead of Estate on turn 22, which let me grabbed the last Province and finished with tie. Had he bought Estate on that turn, I would never have a chance to comeback from losing.

Game 5 First 70:11
Key cards - Grand Market, Peddler, City, Expand, Moneylender, Lookout

A grand Colony game, with all juicy cards. I opened Lookout/Moneylender and Qvist chose Silver/Moneylender. My deck was trimmed very fast thanks to second Lookout, and the engine was geared up after turn 10, while Qvits flooded his deck with treasure cards. His second Moneylender was the mistake, I think.

All in all, thanks Qvist for the series.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 06:34:58 pm by first »
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Qvist

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 05:17:07 am »
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Finally I'm out. I thought that would never happen ;)
I had a very bad day, not seeing the obvious combos. So, I deserve being out of the tournament.
first already made a very good analysis.

In the first game I just was too slow. As first said, grabbing the Bazaars with University could be the deciding factor. His Mountebank was also very lucky and slowed me down too.

The second game I played not that bad, I think. first was going for Nobles and I tried to go straight Big Money with 1 Rabble and 1 Nobles.
It was even, so we were going for Duchies. In turn 22 first's Nobles finally paid out and grabbed the penultimate Province. If he hadn't bought it, I would have bought it in the next turn, so I think this game was a bit lucky for first.

Then it was going very badly. Tactician of course was the opening of choice. I didn't dare to go for it because of my bad win rate with Tactician, so I opened Haggler.
Game over!

In game 4, we both were going for Fool's Gold / Horse Traders. FG split was 6/4 in my favor. I bought 2 Ghost Ships to slow first down and to get the FG togehter while he tried Venture which was a little bit too slow. I got the lead and had it until the very end. Then I made the mistake of the tournament. I bought Crossroads instead of Estate because I thought I had a higher lead (Don't ask me why).

In game 5 I was a little bit frustrated to let this win slip away and made many bad mistakes. I skipped Lookout for a second Moneylender (what was I thinking). So he could grab Grand Markets and Peddlers faster and it was game over.

Thanks first for the great matches. I was a little sad that I played so bad, but I reached round 4 and I'm very proud of it. So I'm in the top 32 of the tournament and that only seeded 145th. And I survived longer than jonts26, the #1 seeded. So I think I can be proud of that. I'm looking forward for the next tournament. Thanks theory, for organizing this.

first

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 11:34:07 am »
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In game 4, we both were going for Fool's Gold / Horse Traders. FG split was 6/4 in my favor. I bought 2 Ghost Ships to slow first down and to get the FG togehter while he tried Venture which was a little bit too slow. I got the lead and had it until the very end. Then I made the mistake of the tournament. I bought Crossroads instead of Estate because I thought I had a higher lead (Don't ask me why).

I ignored Ghost Ship at first because of Horse Traders, but I got to use the reaction part only once. Moreover, it can help you topdeck Fool's Gold for the next hand (see turn 15), but again I took that advantage exactly once. And, hey, Venture will skip green cards you topdeck, but again .... That's why my strategy turned out to be bad in game 4.

I think we need a simulator for game 2, but in my opinion with those Nobles my deck cycles faster, not clogged up, and I consistently hit $6 and buy another one. If you notice the log, I didn't play all treasures on turn 15 & 19. Those turns I hit $8 but buying the penultimate Province will end in tie. You bought Lab instead of Estate on turn 22, and that's when I snatched out the last Province and kept Estate lead with second player advantage.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 11:39:04 am by first »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 03:45:49 pm »
+1

I think we need a simulator for game 2, but in my opinion with those Nobles my deck cycles faster, not clogged up, and I consistently hit $6 and buy another one. If you notice the log, I didn't play all treasures on turn 15 & 19. Those turns I hit $8 but buying the penultimate Province will end in tie. You bought Lab instead of Estate on turn 22, and that's when I snatched out the last Province and kept Estate lead with second player advantage.
I played around with this for a while and came to a surprising conclusion... But first, some observations: this is pretty much a big money game and Mint is quite awful (especially if you're trashing one of your Silvers). Laboratory is also quite weak in BM games. The main goal is still Provinces, but Nobles are very important as well to get the VP-advantage. The simulator wants at least one Gold before diving into the Nobles (and Provinces). My play would be to aim for Rabble first to kick start the deck, then get a Gold and start greening (Nobles and Provinces). The simulator likes that too, but it likes something else even more (and the fact you both open Silver/Silver should be a good clue): Noble Brigand into Nobles. That bot beats Rabble into Nobles 56-39.
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ehunt

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 03:54:58 pm »
+1

I narrowly advance over def. Edit: many annotations added.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-120057-cff11d81.html
game one - def.
Somehow I thought we had mirror strategies while we were playing this, but looking back at the log, I was all over the place! Textbook example of "less is more." Also, serious question, when do you stop buying harems and start buying duchies? As is clear, I don't know. I also make an embarrassing game-end error and lose by a point.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-121107-0baa2fdc.html
game two - tie
Cursing game with lots of peddlers. Neither of us had any money and it ended in a tie. Probably should have just gone witch + big money.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-121655-a8ce44e2.html
game three - def
I got burned by ironworks great hall island a few months ago and thought I'd try it out. Def mirrors on the second shuffle, and delaying works in his favor - his early silver results in a province buy very late in the game that clinches it.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-122651-30c20662.html
game four - ehunt
True story: I played Magic the Gathering in middle school, when Fallen Empires had just come out (and sucked) and quit shortly after (I liked learning the rules better than playing). I recall joke flavor text on a magic card I read much later, when many more rules were around. "40 black lotuses and 40 plague rats - now that's Magic!" I thought this was hilarious as I understood nothing else on the texts of any of the cards but I remembered those rats! Anyway, border village + torturer, that's Dominion. (Yes, border village is a new card, but the spirit of this strategy is as old-school as it gets. Really, where am I going with this story?) I'm first player, so my torturer chain goes off first, so I win. No complaints!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-123608-5b749545.html
game five - ehunt wins
We both open silver/duchess with 5-2 on this board! (I had vetoed witch to make it a duke/hoard game.) I get a hoard on the second shuffle by drawing my silver and duchess together; def doesn't, and this determines the game.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-124512-172197a8.html
game six - ehunt wins
This was the only game I was happy with my strategy. Oracle works well with big money, and it's OK to have a few oracles since they self-protect against collision in a way that smithies don't.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-125122-6e921263.html
game seven - ehunt wins
I hate swindler, but he seems necessary. I also hate jack in a colony game, but he also seems necessary. I do a little mid-game cleaning with mints, which help me get a colony in a game that's otherwise a province-rush, but I'm not sure if I got lucky or not.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 10:42:12 pm by ehunt »
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def

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 04:08:42 pm »
+1

Nice match and congrats for ehunt! I enjoyed playing and the meanwhile chat. 4-2 is the result.

Honestly, I really didn't know in some game what useful things I should do there, took wrong curses in the torturer game and opted for Jack in the last game BEFORE noticing it's a Colony game...
Aside from maybe my two Spice Merchants in the first game, which I liked, I didn't think there was a game where I had a better plan than ehunt, so a fully deserved win.
Interesting sidenote: Three games (3,5,7) where one player gets one important Victory Card (Province in Ironworks and Duke game, Colony in Jack game) that makes the difference.
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painted_cow

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 04:37:52 pm »
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Witch: painted_cow 4 vs stefan_k 1

Veto, same starting hand, point counter as always  8)

1:0 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-120600-505c3f38.html

stefan_k went 1st. Embassy BigMoney, with some Warehouses. I tried to get a Province asap, trying to put some pressure. And it worked, since stefan_k bought Duchies very early. I dont buy more than 1 Gold, because with so many Silvers and Embassy I felt I wont need them.

2:0 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-122448-a9317df0.html

stefan_k went 1st. I took a really slow approach here with Potion/Trade Route vs Militia/Blackmarket. His terminals didnt collide early and he got a fast start. Meanwhile I got me some Scrying Pools, but ended with doing nothing besides trashing often like 2 times in the early game. Imho his Inns werent that great, and his deck didnt get much better from there on, whereas the PoolEngine fired up soon, allowing me to draw my whole deck soon. I could get 6:4 Peddlers and managed to draw a Salvager (hi Peddlers) and KC from the Black Market, which was indeed nice. When I finally could assemble these pieces together I bought 4 Provinces in one turn (salvaging 3 Peddlers via KC).

2:1 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-130522-970180a5.html

stefan_k went first. This was pretty much a Mirrormatch, with a huge draw engine possible. Going second in such games is really bad, since a 3-pile-ending was easily to reach with us both going for many enginecards and Jester around. In the end I thought I had won, since I could 3 pile. My hand were like 2 Jester and had 2 Wharfs from last turn. All I needed was a Village type card or a Silver. Funnily my deck didnt deliver anything but greens, a curse another Jester and a Margrave :-( Stefan_k could pile this easily then...Felt really unlucky for me, but luckily it didnt decide the whole outcome.

3:1 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-131547-32b07c15.html

painted_cow went 1st. I opted for Steward/Silver, he for Steward/Potion (Alchemists). Since I got 4 Coppers and Steward in T3 I decided not to trash anything and bought Gold. From there on I played VaultBigmoney and used the Steward as terminal Silver each time. Stefan missed his first Alchemist with 2P and was really behind from there on. The board doesnt hat any +buy, so imho the Alchemists werent too great anyway to overcome the disadvantage of the slow start.

4:1 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-132642-b8a3af26.html

stefan_k went first. We both had 5/2. Really interesting board where I appreciate the opinion of Geronimoos and the simulator. I opted for Vault/Crossroad and simple BigMoney (ignoring Nobles) from there on getting another Vault later on. Stefan bought Mandarin/JoaT/Crossroads, getting 2nd Jack soon and 3 Nobles later on. At first I was a bit scared because he could happily discard in my Vault and draw stuff again with Jack, but somehow I managed to get 5:3 Province Split he could not overcome.

Thanks for the games!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 08:10:24 pm by painted_cow »
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first

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2011, 05:03:57 pm »
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I played around with this for a while and came to a surprising conclusion... But first, some observations: this is pretty much a big money game and Mint is quite awful (especially if you're trashing one of your Silvers). Laboratory is also quite weak in BM games. The main goal is still Provinces, but Nobles are very important as well to get the VP-advantage. The simulator wants at least one Gold before diving into the Nobles (and Provinces). My play would be to aim for Rabble first to kick start the deck, then get a Gold and start greening (Nobles and Provinces). The simulator likes that too, but it likes something else even more (and the fact you both open Silver/Silver should be a good clue): Noble Brigand into Nobles. That bot beats Rabble into Nobles 56-39.

Thanks for the result ! It is really surprising. I agree with your analysis, though in fact Qvist made use of Mint quite well, gaining three Golds from it. I will give Noble Brigand a try next time :)
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2011, 06:05:30 pm »
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Witch Division: RisingJaguar (RJ - #12) def. Elyv (#4) 4-2

The matches were Identical hands and Veto mode.  I have to say that Elyv had some real bad drawing luck in some games you'll see.  To the summaries! Scores will be posted RJ - Elyv:

Game 1: 23 - 27 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-131547-c253b9d3.html
Key Cards: Remake, Familiar, Warehouse, Laboratory, Embargo.

It was my silver/remake vs. potion/warehouse.  In the end it was familiars 3-1 and curses 8-2 or 7-3?  I tried to embargo Golds to slow his economy, but then realized in a familiar game, that wouldn't work all that well... I think a crucial error was when i bought a second remake because it ended up being an unplayable card. 

Game 2: 40 - 18 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-133010-200ec67a.html
Key Cards: Festival, Menagerie, Warehouse, other good cards

The game took a weird turn after starting off 5/2, making alchemists a bad decision from the start.  The obvious goal was to get festivals/menagerie/warehouses working together. I considered alchemist/Outpost but then 5/2 start got rid of that.  Not sure how i got such a huge lead, but I did.  Best analysis ever. 

Game 3:  39 - 29 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-134018-d33c5959.html
Key Cards: Young witch, Hunting Party, Tunnel, Crossroad (bane), Upgrade

Elyv started with Mandarin as well, which provided some great money to start (a lot more hunting parties).  He had an early $8 which forced him to buy province while i began the YW/Tunnel/Crossroads combo.  Elyv had a enough to buy last province but correctly extended the game (would've lost on turns).  Traded estates and then I bought last province. 

Game 4: 27 - 37 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-135407-c6e52dd4.html
Key Cards: Everything

My engine consisted of fishing villages and card drawers of envoy and torturers.  His consisted of tunnel/warehouse.  Without any + buys my engine took far too long to build.  I probably should have delved into haggler sooner. 

Game 5: RJ wins by a few points (forgot log)
Key Cards: Horse Trader, Duke, Silk Road, Harems (not used)

After reading the article on DominionStrategy.com with Dukes/HT, Duke mirror match was born.  $5s were for Duchy/Dukes, $4 for HT or silks.  Nothing too exciting, I considered Harems for early $6 i had (as it would add to silk roadds as well)

Game 6: 11 - -100 http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-140840-8e345a12.html
Key Cards: Menagerie, Hamlet, Goons, Militia, Gardens

Elyv opened up Silver/Silver likely in hopes to get Goons quickly and transition to mass hamlet/menageries.  Unfortunately, he got stuck with <$6 not only turns 3/4 but the whole game.  I capitalized by early Hamlet to mass hamlets.  At this point, i was very flexible with the hamlets/Menageries and wass going to mass buy Goons and Gardens for the win. 

Games 2 and 6 were some really bad shuffling luck for Elyv despite it being a close set so likely Elyv would've won otherwise.  Thanks for the games.  Please msg or reply if you can criticize my game. =)
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Elyv

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2011, 06:19:12 pm »
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Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-140117-73ee6124.html

I thought RisingJaguar played better than I did overall for sure, but Game 6 was incredibly frustrating.

Also, it was a really interesting set of games, with no two games being all that similar. I'd love to hear criticism of how to play these sets.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 06:30:23 pm by Elyv »
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Exclams

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 01:58:33 am »
+4

Gardens round 4: chwhite (seed 1) vs. Exclams (seed 8)

A hotly contested eight(!!)-game series

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-200603-407fcf33.html
We both ignore hamlet/library. chwhite opens silver/courtyard to snatch a turn 3 ghost ship. My first five buys are FG, hoping they'll provide some ship resistance. We both buy a ship on turn 7, and then it's just money and VP for the rest of the game. I win by a very slim margin, arguably due to my turn 16 FG->gold trash. Seems like a game that the simulator could optimize. Did we make good choices?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-201427-b9885244.html
Colony game with lousy trashing, lousy draw, no +actions, and no +buy. I get my first platinum on turn 10, and also buy platinum on turns 16, 17, and 18. He doesn't get his first platinum til turn 15, and doesn't get a second one til turn 26. I'm not sure either of us made very different decisions. Again, I win by a very slim margin, with split colonies, split provinces, and a duchy in my favor. Was this game decided by anything other than me lucking into earlier platinum?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-202328-1123b41a.html
A nice harmonious engine by chwhite, which matures on turn 6 and buys provinces on turns 7-11 and 13. In his first five turns, chwhite gains 6 different cards and trashes his estates, setting up a very menagerie-friendly situation supported by inn, stables, and courtyard. I miss that inn is a great menagerie enabler, which may have decided the game. I fall behind, and my farmland shenanigans don't make up the difference.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-203339-31d8cf9f.html
I feel dumb for missing the strong governor/margrave combo. Instead I tried for a FV/envoy/money engine. My engine is sitll pretty fast! At the end of turn 13, I'm leading 4 provinces to 1, with two islands and a duchy for good measure. However, in his final megaturn, chwhite governor-trashes three golds to provinces and an estate to an island. I hoped that I could co-trash to keep my lead, but despite gaining two islands and a duchy on his last turn, I fall behind. Fun game. I imagine governor megaturns are hard to simulate, but I'm interested if anyone can say which engine is favored here.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-204231-5f2dddd2.html
Not proud of this one. I'm sure treasure map/haven has its place, but probably not on a tactician/minion board. When my TMs go off on turn 8, he's already got two minions, apprentice, and a tactician, and he promptly minions away my 4-gold hand into c-vp-vp-vp. I pick up 16 VP in a big tactician turn, and farmland lets me squeeze out another province, but mostly I sit idle while he gobbles up minions. I'm downright shocked when the game ends in a tie.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-205312-c771633c.html
You know it's an unusual game when you both open duchess. I was haaaalf tempted to skip potion and open upgrade, but I bet the experienced folks here are clucking their tongues at that notion. Lots of trashing to take the edge of familiar, but still a bit of a slog. I won, but I'm not real clear if I did anything different in an important way. Avoided transmute and FV? Shuffle luck again?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-210141-1cabeb2d.html
I thought chwhite's play here was very smooth and clean. University/Apprentice is an obvious combo, but using his first play of apprentice to mint away 7 coppers? Pretty slick, especially considering he only had two silvers remaining. Anyhow, by turn 11 he's buying GMs, and I give up hope. chwhite, what motivated early spies over silver? I guess digging for apprentices is more important than purchasing power?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/20/game-20111220-211314-c2993891.html
Game point! All tied up, plus a draw. My hands are shaking, and the board looks action-packed. I get lucky right off the bat; my cards are drawing harmoniously, and by turn 5 I have the makings of a nice little engine (2 wharves, crossroads, remake, bridge, warehouse, and tunnel). I also get another kind of luck; I think chwhite opening wharf/embargo over wharf/crossroads may have decided the game. Card-harmony continues to shine on me, and on turn 8 I luck into a warehouse/tunnel/bridge/remake situation to trash two coppers and net two golds, three great halls and two embargoed crossroads, curse-free. I miss that my great halls will make chwhite's tributes beefy, but my deck is playing itself at this point, and I win.

There's no question chwhite is a stronger player. I'm very proud to have played well enough for variance to tip in my favor. I apologize again for my tardiness to our game, and appreciate your patience and sportsmanship, chwhite.

If anybody wants to give pointers on these games, I'm all ears. They're burned into my memory at this point.

Fabian

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 02:43:08 am »
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Excellent write-up, Exclams.
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chwhite

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 03:23:43 am »
+1

And another top seed goes down!  A lot of close games, mostly on boards that don't play to my strengths, and one (okay really several) huge unforgivable strategic mistake(s) in the final game which seals my fate.

Thoughts on the games:
Game 1: I thought Silver/Courtyard going for the quick Ghost Ship was probably the right move... but the "nothing but Fool's Gold" strategy proved a lot stronger than I was expecting, and in particular I overlooked how it would be a good counter to Ghost Ship.  Getting the second Ghost Ship was certainly a mistake in light of that; a 6-4 FG split would have been better.  Maybe FG is better than I was giving credit for, after all.

Game 2: Really not sure what else I could have done here.  Big Money Colonies with Militia and Jester for attacks and no engine possibility whatsoever is a pretty painful prospect, and there was nothing to do here but buy treasure and hope for good shuffles.

Game 3: Menagerie and Inn are quite literally my two best cards, and combining them together with Remake makes for a very fast game.  This was definitely my best play of the series.

Game 4: I actually don't have much if any experience playing the Governor spam strategy (gain Gold, draw and remodel on the last turn), but Margrave was a point in its favor and I'll do anything that isn't Envoy. :P  Was definitely worried that I'd run out of time, but snuck ahead at the very end.

Game 5: I'm not proud of this one either, I thought that with mass Minions over Treasure Map I would have no problem winning easy, especially after Embargoing Tactician right after buying it.  I think what consigned me to a tie was that I spent a bit too long engine-building and would have been better served greening a turn or two earlier.  I also wonder if a Duke/Duchy play would have been a good idea, or getting a second Tactician.

Game 6: Another one where we did virtually the same thing and I suspect it mostly came down to shuffle luck.  I think the Transmute was definitely the right buy when I got it (a $2P hand), since it works just fine on Estates and Curses, and the late game Duchies could have made a difference, and who cares if it's slow because this is a Familiar game, but the first FV was probably a mistake.

Game 7: The spies were mainly because I wanted better Apprentice fuel; I briefly considered the Gardens route myself but after I Minted all the Coppers there was no going back and they became prime Embargo targets.

Game 8:  Oh, the shame, the humanity.  Why the hell would I open Embargo instead of Crossroads on a board with frickin' Great Hall?!?!?  I mean, I knew that was a combo potential!  I think what was going through my mind was that I was second player, and if we both went for the obvious combo you'd almost certainly be able to three-pile first, and Wharf/Embargo might be a good segue into hopefully a fast Wharf-BM deck, hope that Crossroads turns out to actually be a trap because I sure need to do something different otherwise I'm just screwed.  Then I draw them both together on Turn 3 and realize that I just made one of the stupidest mistakes in my long history of Dominion playing.  And then I didn't even pick the right Embargo target, Great Halls would have been better, and floundered around with other crap where if I was going Wharf BM I should have just goddamn gone Wharf BM, presence of Remake and Warehouse-Tunnel be damned.  The Tributes were obviously a desperation move.  Aaargh.  Based on the sheer incompetence I showed in that one game alone, I think it's quite obvious that the more deserving player advanced.

There's no question chwhite is a stronger player. I'm very proud to have played well enough for variance to tip in my favor. I apologize again for my tardiness to our game, and appreciate your patience and sportsmanship, chwhite.

I think there is plenty of question!  Our last game alone should put my status as a "superior player" in grave doubt, and after these games our lifetime record versus each other is 11-11-2.  No superiority there!

Thanks again for an excellent and nerve-wracking series of games, and best of luck in the rest of the tournament.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:28:36 am by chwhite »
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To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

Geronimoo

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2011, 04:15:07 am »
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Looking at these logs confirmed what I already thought: chwhite is a sick sick engine builder. His Big Money might need some work, but I hope he doesn't come around to it or I'll never beat him.
And very well played to Exclams of course! Thanks for the write up guys.
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painted_cow

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2011, 09:01:42 am »
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@chwhite: Of course the Embargo wasnt smart at all, but even when you make the same opening you wont have many chances to win this considering Exclams draw. This was pretty much over by turn 5.

Game 7, love your play. Really well done!

@ Exclams: nice review and I like the idea of not telling the result until the very end. Makes it somehow more entertaining to read the conclusions etc. 

And Geronimoo, please have a short look on my last game vs stefan_k about the openings etc. thx so far
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DG

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 11:45:39 am »
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Geronimoo's simulator always plays the crossroads with {crossroads, vault, copper, copper, copper} in hand which probably voids the simulated results. It's not a bad play rule, just not appropriate here. The Jack of All Trades also isn't discarding on the vault plays and missing a significant advantage. With that still in mind, the simulator gives the young witch a clear win against vault/crossroads and a clear loss to vault/duchess.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 11:57:20 am by DG »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2011, 12:09:11 pm »
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Opening Mandarin then going for 2 Jacks is significantly worse than just opening Jack. And a Vault opening convincingly beats a Jack opening (going for Nobles). The simulator doesn't always discard to Vault when it has a Jack in hand, but I doubt fixing this would be enough to tip the scales in favor of Jack.
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painted_cow

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 12:43:26 pm »
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Okay, thats good to here, that I made the right decision with my intuition :-) Thanks for the effort of simulating.
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WHARF 2 THA BRIDGE

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 02:25:46 pm »
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G3 of chwhite vs. Exclams is one of the sickest games I've ever seen. Every decision by chwhite is so efficient. I'm really impressed.
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rod-

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 03:10:59 pm »
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G3 of chwhite vs. Exclams is one of the sickest games I've ever seen. Every decision by chwhite is so efficient. I'm really impressed.
Every turn was certainly highly efficient.  How much of that can actually be attributed to decisions, though?  How often, when you replay that board, are you going to be able to do as well?  If his remake / silver had simply come in the opposite order on turn 3-4, he would lose 1.5-2 turns and quite possibly the game.

I in no way mean to belittle the accomplishments of the game, but in over a dozen replays, i have not once managed to get a (productive) turn 4 inn from the same start.  Without that turn 4 inn, i'm unable to do better than 6 provinces in 15 or 16 turns, which may well have still been enough to win, but would've been much less impressive.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:43:51 pm by rod- »
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theory

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Re: Schedule and Results, Part II
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 07:01:37 pm »
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There's something to be said, though, about taking advantage of your opportunities.  Good players take advantage of their luck in a better way than others.  With $5 there, I certainly would not have thought to use Inn.
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