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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread  (Read 20826 times)

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Kirian

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GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« on: April 07, 2014, 11:00:43 am »
0

The spreadsheet for GokoDom III is here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkuKfENQMyHadE9iM3Zzd3g4WVBrYV9Mb2ZWOWM5aEE&usp=sharing

Please post your logs and analysis!!
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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 07:07:39 pm »
+2

jsh vs Dunduks

Game 1
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140407/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1396904806807.txt
Video:
Here is a board I hilariously misplay thinking Treasury/graverobber has a chance against Mountebank spam.  Don't do drugs, guys.

Game 2
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140407/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1396906003363.txt
Video:
Probably the most interesting game of the set.  There's an engine with weak draw, Possession is available, and many cards interact with Possession unfavorably to the possessed.  If you only want to watch one, here it is.  I opt not to get cards that can hurt me when possessed, but Dunduks never manages to purchase a Possession anyway.

Game 3
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140407/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1396906509293.txt
Video:
Gardens Rush with various enablers on the board.  It's fairly interesting, and I don't think the way I played was optimal.  However, it does a good job showing why Workshop/Gardens isn't always the best choice contrary to conventional wisdom, given other options.

Game 4
Log: http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140407/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1396907167719.txt
Video:
I play Big Money Catacombs, get a 5 Copper Mint and trash the Mint to Trader.  Dunduks does his best to catch back up, but there was little that could be done.
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 07:12:51 pm »
0

congrats as the 3rd player that officialy made the playoffs :)
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 09:38:59 pm »
+2

My games against dudeabides. All were pretty interesting. I do not make it into the playoffs.

markusin 1-3 dudeabides

Game 1:
Log and Video



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Secret Chamber, Wishing Well, Conspirator, Wandering Minstrel, Catacombs, Horn of Plenty, Stash, Upgrade, Border Village
This board is just begging for a Horn of Plenty megaturn. My opponent finds a really neat interaction: Upgrading Catacombs into a Border Village. That's 3 cards right there, one of which can be a replacement for the trashed Catacombs. Very powerful on a board lacking +buy. This allows my opponent to get extra Wandering Minstrels, while I have my hopes on thinning my deck with upgrades.

Also, this is the first time I see Stash on Goko. Of course, neither of us got one.

markusin 0-1 dudeabides

Game 2:
Log and Video



Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Pawn, Storeroom, Feast, Young Witch, City, Contraband, Haggler, Market, Minion, Torturer
Storeroom isn't the best bane for Young Witch. Nevertheless, I underestimated their usefulness on this board that at least had city for a source of +actions. My opponent adds a Torturer to his deck, helping him win the curse split despite having two Young Witches to his 1. I started getting Minions, hoping that their cycling would help me find my Young Witches faster, and expected them to be a great asset in finding my Cities once they inevitably leveled up. My opponent triggers a bad reshuffle towardsw the end, giving me a good chance of catching up with my Detroit Rock Cities (because calling them Level 2 Cities or Level 3 Cities just doesn't cut it for everyone).

markusin 1-1 dudeabides

Game 3:
Log and Video



Code: [Select]
Fishing Village, Storeroom, Urchin, Bishop, Envoy, Spice Merchant, Band of Misfits, Counterfeit, Hunting Party, Mystic
This series was full of interesting boards. This one was no exception. Though it featured Hunting Party, it also featured Fishing Village with Envoy for draw. Bishop and especially Band of Misfits also came into play. I went for the trim, 1-Province a turn and using Bishop for VP while my opponent went for something more explosive involving Counterfeit. I do manage to get the early lead though.

markusin 1-2 dudeabides

Game 4:
Log and Video



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Embargo, Pawn, Workshop, Familiar, Gardens, Ironworks, Remake, Rogue, Witch
Ironworks-Gardens mirror with Workshop to boot. I start with a 2/5 split, yet opt to open Pawn/Ironworks over something with Witch. I don't see how anything can possibly keep up with the rush except for the rush itself. I tragically lose the Gardens split, which pretty much seals the game. I wonder if Rogue could have been effective here, but it seems too slow in the non-mirror.


Thanks for the games, dudeabides.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 02:04:11 am »
0

Jsh's 3rd game frankly baffles me. Although there are certainly some reasonable gardens enablers on that board, the attacks are vicious, and an engine has every component but trashing. Watchtower is especially potent, because it synergizes with the low-draw hamlets and squires, and more importantly because of its trash-on-gain ability. This allows a 2$ watchtower hand to buy and trash squire to instantly gain a topdecked familiar or Mountebank. Cursing may be less frightening for a gardens deck, but even gardens has its limits. If the opponent ignores attacks, I expect the engine player to build up to Grand Market, or at least large Wharf draws, and run away.

Are you sure gardens was the right strategy here?
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Dunduks

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 02:24:48 am »
0

JacquesTheBard,

I thought about engine but I couldn't make decision if it is better as rush so I went with rush. OK, I didn't see gaining&trashing Squire as way to gain Familiar/Mountebank.
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Dunduks

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 02:59:02 am »
+1

jsh vs Dunduks, my comments

Game 1

I tried not to do something special, jsh tried something fancy, my two Mountebanks were enough.

Game 2

It was strange - after turn 4 we had pretty similar decks, after jsh turn 6 I wanted to resign (I don't want to think that Woodcutter is so much better as Silver there). It looks like Procession was wrong, also as HoP wasn't optimal. After it I tried to guess when I'll get possesed without too much success. And turn 18 - I just miscounted money, ok, it shouldn't make difference at the end but anyway it was very shit feeling.

Game 3

I know, I know - you make your shuffle luck but anyway turn 13, ehh ..., ok, at least jsh Swindler didn't shoot deputy. After jsh opened Squire I thought he would go engine and it could be interesting but I hadn't guts for it.

Game 4

I know that Alchemists aren't quick drivers. Maybe after jsh Mint-Trader trick I should go for Universities, Catacombs, Pillages and didn't touch Alchemists at all.

Anyway, thanks for games, stronger player won and, jsh, good luck in play-off.

Also big thanks to Kirian for organizing and Lady Luck for my results - at the start of tournament I couldn't imagine I'll have a fighting chance for place in Sweet 16.

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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2014, 06:30:43 am »
0

markusin 1-3 dudeabides
You sould add spoiler here too. (I have modified the quote.)
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 09:35:10 am »
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markusin 1-3 dudeabides
You sould add spoiler here too. (I have modified the quote.)
I suppose I should. I made the false assumption that the viewer knows how many games were played in advance. There is only one possible score where you lose a series after 4 games: 1-3.
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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 09:49:09 am »
0

Jsh's 3rd game frankly baffles me. Although there are certainly some reasonable gardens enablers on that board, the attacks are vicious, and an engine has every component but trashing. Watchtower is especially potent, because it synergizes with the low-draw hamlets and squires, and more importantly because of its trash-on-gain ability. This allows a 2$ watchtower hand to buy and trash squire to instantly gain a topdecked familiar or Mountebank. Cursing may be less frightening for a gardens deck, but even gardens has its limits. If the opponent ignores attacks, I expect the engine player to build up to Grand Market, or at least large Wharf draws, and run away.

Are you sure gardens was the right strategy here?

Looking at how the openings went, yes.  It's true than an engine could work on that board, but my opponent opened obviously aiming at Gardens, so I had to get in there.  The Gardens pile-out is really easy on that board, so I don't think there's a whole lot of time to build, and with Squire he'd have plenty of opportunity to bump Gardens up.
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 10:30:02 am »
0

markusin 1-3 dudeabides
You sould add spoiler here too. (I have modified the quote.)
I suppose I should. I made the false assumption that the viewer knows how many games were played in advance. There is only one possible score where you lose a series after 4 games: 1-3.
You don't know # of games when you roll down to video link. And even with 4 games, you could have won 3-1.

And this is another spoiler: I do not make it into the playoffs. I do not make it into the playoffs.
I did not read it before, but the score is hard to miss.

Thanks for the videos!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 10:32:41 am by yed »
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markusin

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 01:29:26 pm »
0

markusin 1-3 dudeabides
You sould add spoiler here too. (I have modified the quote.)
I suppose I should. I made the false assumption that the viewer knows how many games were played in advance. There is only one possible score where you lose a series after 4 games: 1-3.
You don't know # of games when you roll down to video link. And even with 4 games, you could have won 3-1.

And this is another spoiler: I do not make it into the playoffs. I do not make it into the playoffs.
I did not read it before, but the score is hard to miss.

Thanks for the videos!
Yeah, I'll be more careful next time, and not assume everyone reads the results thread or the raw data.
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yed

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 01:38:27 pm »
0

markusin 1-3 dudeabides
You sould add spoiler here too. (I have modified the quote.)
I suppose I should. I made the false assumption that the viewer knows how many games were played in advance. There is only one possible score where you lose a series after 4 games: 1-3.
You don't know # of games when you roll down to video link. And even with 4 games, you could have won 3-1.

And this is another spoiler: I do not make it into the playoffs. I do not make it into the playoffs.
I did not read it before, but the score is hard to miss.

Thanks for the videos!
Yeah, I'll be more careful next time, and not assume everyone reads the results thread or the raw data.
Thanks. I am not reading the results thread so that I am not spoiled :)
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hdu88

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 06:38:35 pm »
+2

hdu88 vs AdamH: SPOILER ALERT IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE YOUTUBE VIDEOS FIRST

Winner moves on to Top 16, loser is out. In the case of a draw, both of us are probably eliminated on the bubble.

Game 1
Highway/Market Square megaturn with Mercenary as the only trashing. He hits the Urchin collision on the first reshuffle while I miss, and it goes downhill from there.

16-47
0-1


Game 2
There's a saying in the fighting game community that execution is everything. You might know all of the frame data on the Storm TAC infinite combo, but if you can't consistently execute it then it's better just to do a simpler combo--which is exactly what the best Storm player in the world does. I figured that execution doesn't matter in Dominion because how hard can it be to click the right buttons when you have all the time in the world? I got to find out the hard way. In theory, I could buy all 8 Provinces by Turn 15, especially with my opponent's Soothsayer helping my economy (yes you read that right). In practice, I haven't played a KC Storeroom board in a long time, so I forgot to click through all 6 Storeroom activations, which resulted in me triggering a bad reshuffle AND losing half of my money for my own turn, so essentially I lost 1.5 turns. Props to Adam for capitalizing on this with the perfect buys on Turn 15; if he buys even slightly differently I can either win by emptying Provinces or emptying piles.
24-37
0-2


Game 3
Rebuild board. My Turns 3-6 are ALL $5, so I win, right? Not when my Rebuilds are flipping each other over while Adam's Rebuilds are flipping 10 non-Rebuild cards. I feel like my only mistake is buying Estate right before Adam empties the Duchy pile.
21-29
0-3


Thanks to Adam for some good games (okay, one AMAZING game and two games I'd rather forget), and good luck in the eighthfinals? Is that a word?

P.S. The censored word was brainfart. I have no idea why Goko would censor that.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 06:39:48 pm by hdu88 »
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2014, 03:23:25 am »
+1



Game 1:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140408/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1396978970262.txt



Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Black Market, Sage, Advisor, Armory, Scout, Treasure Map, Walled Village, Contraband, Hunting Grounds
With Baker in the Black Market, a double Treasure Map opening is really tempting. But I think the engine is just so strong here even without +Buy on the board. So I open Potion/Armory. My opponent opens Armory/Black Market signaling also an engine. But then he surprises me by gaining Silvers with Armory and going for a money centered deck. I get Black Market in the next shuffle and I got unlucky because my Potion misses the shuffle. In turn 7 my opponent already got a Province which might have been a bit premature. In turn 8 he gets the Margrave that I really aimed for out of the Black Market. But my engine slowly starts to get rolling. My opponent then gets Conspirator/Estate (trashing Hovel) instead of Gold in turn 11, so I think he can't really decide between engine or Big Money. Turn 11 was also my first big turn drawing most of my deck. I gained a second Armory with my Armory and in the next turn I double top-decked Treasure Map for a guaranteed hit next turn. From there on I was able to hit Province each turn which sealed the deal for me.


Game 2:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140408/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1396981672003.txt



Code: [Select]
Vagrant, Forager, Workshop, Noble Brigand, Procession, Worker's Village, Mystic, Outpost, Tribute, Farmland
Not a particular strong board here. Big Money support is only in Noble Brigand, but I think trashing down with Forager and getting Mystics is superior. We both going for the same strategy. I open Forager/Silver while he opens Forager/Workshop. The Workshop enables him to gain Worker's Villages and process them into Mystics, but I think this is slower than buying the Mystics in the traditional way. Later I realise the nice Vagrant+Mystic interaction which led me to believe that the Mystic strategy is just superior. My opponent also gained Noble Brigands with Workshop, but they didn't do a lot of damage, well they flipped all of my Mystics which was kind of annoying. I won the Mystic split 6/4 which I think was very important. We then had both 2 Provinces and I decide to go full green by buying a Duchy. I then could get a Province in the next hand and was in very good shape. He got 2 Duchies in the following turns while I got Procession and Province. He has to get the penultimate Province and with him trashing a Silver to Forager I am able to buy the last Province and win.


Game 3:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140408/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1396983087461.txt



Code: [Select]
Secret Chamber, Horse Traders, Talisman, Taxman, Thief, Apprentice, Governor, Merchant Guild, Mint, King's Court
So, this a crazy powerful board and you really want to get a lot of King's Courts and Governors. But how to get there? The Horse Traders/Silver opening is pretty clear to both of us. I decided to get an Apprentice with my first $5, hoping to get a lucky Mint, but also to thin which should help connecting King's Court with Governor later. My opponent is getting Governor/Taxman in the next shuffle, but I really disagree with the Taxman there especially as it just triggers my Horse Traders which I end up buying 3 of them. In turn 5 I already got my first lucky King's Court, he gets his first in turn 7, I get the second one in turn 8, but I really need Governors now as I have none so far in the deck. My opponent mostly used Governor for draw and should have opted for Gold a few times, I think as getting Silvers really clog up the deck. I then get 5 Governors. In turn 12 my opponent goes for big draw and gets Double Province. I now have to go for the mega turn myself and start with a big hand where my two triggered Horse Traders draw my 2 Governors, yeah. I can't end it though, I was $2 short, but I was commited and get 5 Provinces and a Duchy. My opponent now needs Province, triple Duchy to win, but he only was able to get double Duchy which secured me the win.

Thanks for the fun games, antigoth, and sorry for the long first game.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 09:16:37 am »
+2

AdamH 3, hdu88 0

Link to entire live stream on Twitch
Link to video playlist on YouTube

This match is a must-win for both of us, since the winner almost certainly makes the finals.


Game 1: AdamH 47, hdu88 16
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Poor House, Squire, Fishing Village, Market Square, Urchin, Explorer, Highway, Horn of Plenty, Farmland, Expand

So there's no draw and the only trashing/attack is Urchin/Mercenary, and with an explosive payload in Highway+Market Square, the game will likely come down to who collides Urchins earlier. I collide on T3 and he doesn't until his next shuffle, and there's no catching up at that point. Yay, coin flips!


Game 2: hdu88 24, AdamH 37
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Courtyard, Fishing Village, Storeroom, Militia, Hunting Party, Mandarin, Mint, Soothsayer, Nobles, King's Court

This game was ridiculous, such a hard board to play perfectly and with the stakes so high this 16-turn game took about 55 minutes to play out. I started to get really nervous as the game went on, and I was mentally exhausted by the end of it, as I'm sure most of the chat was.

So the only trashing is Mint, but there's King's Court and a ton of draw. There are multiple explosive payloads you can have for this engine here, and you have to keep your eyes open for Soothsayer since there's no way to trash Curses -- with Militia he presses his first player advantage and gets off to an early lead, grabbing King's Courts before me and winning the Nobles split 6-2. I buy my first Mint a little earlier than I should, but other than that I just calmly build until I can hit King's Court myself.

He goes for an engine where he draws his deck, plays Storeroom for cash, redraws the deck, and repeats as many times as possible, while the payload I aim for involves Kinging Soothsayers, Minting the Golds, drawing them, and then spending the Golds and buying a Mint each turn to keep thin. There's a point where he misclicks while playing Storeroom which set him back, but as I calmly built up I was somehow getting back into the game. With extremely careful endgame play I'm able to stay in a good position and finally end the game on piles (when I could have just bought all the Provinces instead *facepalm*) for a win.

I was afraid of reading the chat after this game; during the game I kept on finding things I could have done to make things better and I was sure the chat would be telling me I was doing EVERYTHING wrong, but it turns out they thought I was playing very well! The only big mistake they mentioned was that my first Mint buy was probably a little bit early, and that's still a tough call to make; and they said the big difference in that game was that I bought Soothsayer and my opponent didn't -- sure the Curses gave him more things to discard but looking back I really like that play.

Turns out that during this game I had 28 (!!!!!!) viewers at one point, which is more than double what my previous "viewer PB" was. I'm not positive who all was watching, but thanks to everybody who tuned in, it's so amazing to have that kind of turnout. Also, special thanks to amalloy for sending me the whole chat log from that game :D


Game 3: hdu88 21, AdamH 29
Game log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Squire, Chancellor, Village, Marauder, Navigator, Nomad Camp, Sea Hag, Walled Village, Cartographer, Rebuild, with Shelters

Well, it's Rebuild with Shelters. He chooses Navigator as his enabler and I choose Marauder. With some luck and tight play I manage to buy a Province and somehow play more Rebuilds, and he also gets stuck with an extra Estate in his deck once the Duchies are gone, so that's about it for this game.


Matches like this are why I join tournaments -- to have opportunities to play high-level players in a competitive setting. The first and third games were mostly luck-driven, but the second game was quite the ordeal and I'm glad I got to play that game. This is my first time making it this deep in a tournament, too! I'm really excited about what's to come.

Thanks for the match!

EDIT: This is my 1000th post on F.DS!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 08:04:14 pm by AdamH »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 01:19:13 pm »
+1

Holy crap that game 2. Well done!
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 01:34:14 pm »
0

I had to leave in the middle of Game 2... You won it! Wow!

Storeroom is a dangerous Goko card, for precisely that reason.
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2014, 07:35:30 pm »
+1

Titandrake 4-2 Psyduck

Okay, so I had no mic for the first game. So, as a spur of the moment idea, I typed what I was thinking into the chat box.

It didn't work. Game 1 took around 1.5 hours, because it was Bishop madness with a really weird, hard endgame to think about. So, I was spending half my turn just typing random things, because there's a lot to decide on. I'm still deciding what to do about it, since I doubt anyone wants to watch that entire video. What will probably happen, is that I will try to edit down the 1st game, and leave the rest of the games intact, because I have a mic for the rest of those.

Anyways, that's going to take a while, so here's some logs for now.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397069699823.txt
Crossroads, Trade Route, Philosopher's Stone, Bishop, Bureaucrat, Horse Traders, Duke, Tribute, Farmland, Grand Market

I decide on HT-Duke, then switch my mind on turn 4. I don't remember much besides that, don't know how I managed to win, or what was going on. Just, whatever, forget this game. What I do remember is that on my last turn, I have a 50/50 shot of winning vs losing, in that it all depends on if I draw a victory card or not. I don't, so I win.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397073385204.txt
Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Philosopher's Stone, Coppersmith, Ironmonger, Taxman, Baker, Margrave, Soothsayer, Bank

Margrave-Fool's Gold, I buy a Soothsayer, always draw it dead, and it costs me so many Provinces. Psyduck wins pretty easily.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397074660040.txt
Vineyard, Moat, Oracle, Sage, Advisor, Conspirator, Ironmonger, Smithy, Apprentice, Haggler

No +Buy, but Haggler gives you ways to gain actions. I get an early $5 for Haggler, then start using Haggler to gain Apprentice and Ironmongers and Conspirators. My deck starts up faster, and Apprentice trashes out most of my starting cards. Psyduck doesn't get Apprentice until later, and by then it was too late.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397076013129.txt
Transmute, University, Fortress, Ironmonger, Salvager, Taxman, Embassy, Royal Seal, Adventurer, Border Village

Salvager + Border Village + Fortress is a nice setup. I misplay, buying a Fortress on T3 which should have been Embassy. Psyduck wins the BV split and gets the win with the better engine. Need to remember to buy the cards, then buy the payload.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397077965776.txt
Courtyard, Haven, Doctor, Smugglers, Storeroom, Trade Route, Advisor, Plaza, Remake, Duke

Really interesting board. Courtyard isn't the best card draw, but you have the trashing, the actions, and the +Buy. I decide on Storeroom/Silver into Duchy Duke. Psyduck opens Remake/Smugglers, with the plan of Smuggling away some Duchies, then Remaking them into Gold and playing the engine. We split Duchies 4-4, which is really bad for me, so I decide I need to end ASAP and start running out the Dukes and Estates. It helps that Trade Route is amazing at this point. I'm not sure which strategy is better: I feel like the engine should be able to get enough Provinces in time, but I'm not sure, and if the Duke player gets 5 Duchies, they win. Overall though, I think I played the Duke deck right.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.505f5ec4a2e6714a97eee844.1397079050572.txt
Beggar, Embargo, Village, Moneylender, Nomad Camp, Remake, Explorer, Graverobber, Horn of Plenty, Mandarin

You know your board is slow when the best deck looks like Mandarin-BM. Psyduck has 5-2, Embargoes Gold and plans to use Remake to trash Mandarins and other $5 costs into Gold. Turns out that this is far too fancy and loses to Mandarin and Explorer.

I feel like these boards were all pretty good. Lots of decisions, not too many swingy cards, and the small decisions mattered a lot. Plus we played diverging strategies a lot, which is always interesting. Thanks for the games!
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 08:35:30 pm »
0

a few comments on those games:

game 1:
i really feel like getting 1 or 2 Horsetraders and then a few silvers golds until you can buy GM's
and trashing your estates and coppers to your opponents bishops  (that will probably lead to a ~7/3 GM split on average)
and then going into bishops should beat both of your strategies easily.
Maybe a pseudo Golden Deck buying 2 Provinces and trashing them to bishops every turn as the lategame plan?
(or maybe just one or two platinums into buying colonies)

game 3:
very well played.

game 5:
I think Duchy Duke is the clear way to go. I really like Smugglers for that, i even think it's a must buy in the mirror. Open Smugglers/Courtyard and try to rush the Duchies that way maybe? I feel like Remake is a little too slow for a Duchy Duke mirror.

game 6:
 I feel like your were both misplaying this one. Seriously Buying Gold + Curse over Silver when you dont plan to get rid of the curse? That's like Buying a Silver  and a Copper and getting a negative VP token on top.
I would have gone into Explorer BM right away skipping all other actions and start picking up Mandarins at good opportunities in the mid- and late-game. Maybe Remake BM is about as strong as Explorer BM i think those two strategies are pretty close.

Congrats Titandrake and maybe we'll see each other in the playoffs :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 08:42:17 pm by MarkowKette »
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KingZog3

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 11:18:29 pm »
+1

Here are my games against Max_D (MJD on goko). I didnt post the last 2 rounds because I lost pretty badly and was busy (mostly because I played terribly though). My opponents might have posted them. Anyway, I won against Max_D 3-1, but he played well and the last one was close.


Game 1: 1-0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140409/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1397096405511.txt



Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Moat, Develop, Forager, Steward, Familiar, Feast, Golem, Treasury, Upgrade
An interesting Golem Engine. It's the only +actions, but Familiar means there a consolation prize if you miss $4P. Familiar isn't great because trashing is pretty good, but still worth the pickup if nothing else is worth while. I only get 1, but Max_D gets 2 which I think is a mistake. He also didn't get enough action cards, probably because he was too focused on cursing me. Moat saved me too, blocking double cursing turns twice. Treasuries helped a lot too.


Game 2:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140409/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1397097680338.txt



Code: [Select]
Apothecary, Ambassador, Lookout, Wishing Well, Envoy, Nomad Camp, Pirate Ship, Sea Hag, Margrave, Merchant Ship
Sea Hag is clearly a no go here. I open ambassador, get rid of my Estates but then change my mind and go for an Aporthecary/Wishing Well deck with 1 Margrave for attack and buys. He goes Margrave BM, mostly because he opened 5/2 (which is much worse here). Max_D also misclicked buying the Lookout. He meant to buy Ambassador. But my deck being able to attack every turn really hurts BM, plus he had 5 Estates in his deck.


Game 3:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140409/log.51467e35e4b0de86766bf3f3.1397098640055.txt



Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Loan, Village, Woodcutter, Farming Village, Militia, Spy, Talisman, Throne Room, Baker
Vineyards. It is a Colony game which is why Max_D didnt go for Vineyards, but the yards pull through and steal the win. The board is just too good not tog for it, with lots of cantrips, +actions, TR, Talisman and Militia to attack. I get all 8 Vineyards and pump them up to a whopping 12VP each. It was very close and Max_D did misplay at the end, not realizing only 2 piles were empty when he bought the last Woodcutter. Not sure it mattered much because 1 turn later I would have ended it, but if he had drawn $11 I couldn't have, so yeah it would have been his only chance to pull out a win. Still, this a fun game to play, for me anyway.

Thanks for the games Max_D (or MJD on goko). They were fun and seriously, you aren't as bad as you probably think you are. You didn't open Pirate Ship, and that's something many high ranked players still can't understand is a bad thing to do.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 11:22:34 pm by KingZog3 »
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2014, 12:16:03 am »
0

game 5:
I think Duchy Duke is the clear way to go. I really like Smugglers for that, i even think it's a must buy in the mirror. Open Smugglers/Courtyard and try to rush the Duchies that way maybe? I feel like Remake is a little too slow for a Duchy Duke mirror.

game 6:
 I feel like your were both misplaying this one. Seriously Buying Gold + Curse over Silver when you dont plan to get rid of the curse? That's like Buying a Silver  and a Copper and getting a negative VP token on top.
I would have gone into Explorer BM right away skipping all other actions and start picking up Mandarins at good opportunities in the mid- and late-game. Maybe Remake BM is about as strong as Explorer BM i think those two strategies are pretty close.

On game 5, I don't think Smugglers/Courtyard is consistent enough to get $5 on its own, but it might be a good reply to Storeroom. In the ideal situation, Smugglers gives you a Duchy without costing you a Duchy, and I feel like that's not going to happen often enough. But I could be wrong on this, I was acting more off me going Smugglers to win Duchy split before and having it backfire horribly. I also wasn't sure if Psyduck was going for Duchy/Duke.

On game 6, I still think the first embargoed gold is good. It's only one Curse, it's not too bad, and it's absolutely not like Silver + Copper because having a Gold lets you hit high value cards more easily. Usually, 1 Gold > 2 Silvers in BM, in that you buy a Gold on $6 and 2 buys instead of 2 silvers, so Gold + Curse should beat Silver + Copper. If you mean, buy an Explorer or Mandarin instead, then that's a valid point. I think that I shouldn't have bought Nomad Camp, since it was basically a terminal silver for no reason.

Most of the Mandarin buys I make are for the topdeck. If I don't think the topdeck is worth it, then I bought Explorer. So for instance, my T4 buy was Mandarin because I'd seen all my Estates, so I knew that I would get a Gold by using the topdeck.
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DG

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2014, 06:03:33 am »
0

 
Quote
Usually, 1 Gold > 2 Silvers in BM, in that you buy a Gold on $6 and 2 buys instead of 2 silvers, so Gold + Curse should beat Silver + Copper.

gold > gold+copper > silver+silver  > silver > gold+ruin > silver+copper > gold+curse.
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EgorK

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 7 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 06:33:38 am »
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EgorK - hsiale 3-0

Game 1. EgorK - hsiale 34:32

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140410/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1397124097469.txt



Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Trade Route, Woodcutter, Feodum, Militia, Nomad Camp, Graverobber, Mountebank, Adventurer, King's Court
Weird game with FG, Nomad Camp and Mountebank. Because of Mountebank I decided to use FG as reactions as they would not line up anyway. Both our decks do not seem to have direction with some random trade routes, king's courts and graverobbers. In the end I probably get more lucky (well, that is theme of whole match)

Game 2. hsiale - EgorK 27:30

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140410/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1397124488601.txt



Code: [Select]
Haven, Moat, Doctor, Storeroom, Wishing Well, Woodcutter, Coppersmith, Rats, Jester, Hunting Grounds
Seems like nothing more interesting than Jester-BM. My copper saved on haven decides the game after my opponent breaks PPR

Game 3. hsiale - EgorK hsiale resigns

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140410/log.50893139a2e67cff211cd7e5.1397125033379.txt



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Swindler, Village, Ironworks, Taxman, Young Witch, Baker, Mint, Altar, Nobles, Bank
This game puzzles me. We both start with thin decks because of both Baker and Mint on the board. I go for bakers and YW and somehow my opponent's deck just fell apart despite the fact that I hadn't played very focused either.

hsiale, thanks for the game and I hope you would have more luck in Dominion League as in this match you defenately lack luck
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