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Author Topic: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread  (Read 17535 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2014, 10:44:28 pm »
+1

ADK beats azadin 4-2

Game 4 ended prematurely when azadin disconnected, he was winning handily though so we decided to count it as a win for him. Goko ate the log but you can see the game in my video. I'll post the logs here then add a link to the video when it uploads.

Game One
Game Two
Game Three
Game Five
Game Six

Video, it's all in on massive chunk but at least it's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htbuFuPgfcY
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 11:49:28 pm by A Drowned Kernel »
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BraveBear

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2014, 01:15:04 pm »
0

I lost to Brave Bear 1-3-1, but he doesn't know how to post the logs:
Game 1
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140326/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1395883404307.txt
1-0

Game 2
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140326/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1395884063077.txt
1-1

Game 3
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140326/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1395884992938.txt
1-1-1

Game 4
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140326/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1395886585362.txt
1-2-1

Game 5
http://logs.prod.dominion.makingfun.com//20140326/log.52215356e4b08be7ae40aa77.1395887698178.txt
1-3-1

Game 1 I got lucky and the deck fired on the last turn so I could buy two provinces and end it.
Game 2 He hit 6 six really early, got the horde, and the game as a result. (I think it was turn 3)
Game 3 I could have won, and avoided the draw, but I mis-used my Pawn.
Game 4 was all over the place. A Fun set-up, but neither of us had a really solid plan of what we were doing.
Game 5 - with my build choice I don't think I could have done anything differently.

Good luck Brave Bear.

Game 1.  I don't think you got lucky at all antigoth.  You picked the better strategy and should have fired off earlier.  My count strat was reliable but just not fast enough.

Game 2. Turn 3 hoard is pretty hard to defeat on that board.

Game 3.  I could have won too on the last turn but went into autopilot because I thought my deck was unstoppable.  Of course I stall instead of icing it.

Game 4.  I think a scout-scout strategy would have beaten both of ours in that game.  Rats is a trap card that I cant seem to avoid or maybe I just don't know how to play it well.

Game 5.  This was an obvious engine board however there wasn't plus buy so I thought BM-Masquerade would be faster.  I completely forgot about HoP and really should have lost this one.

Great fun games anitgoth!  Good luck in the rest of the trny.
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2014, 02:29:31 pm »
+3




Game 1:



Code: [Select]
Duchess, Develop, Loan, Woodcutter, Salvager, Young Witch, Mountebank, Outpost, Saboteur, Wharf, Fairgrounds
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140326/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1395864304710.txt

We both open Young Witch/Silver and ignore the bane Develop. We both then get a Mountebank on the next shuffle. And then gamesou gets a Gold in turn 5, turn 8 and turn 11 while I never hit $6 until turn 14, unbelievable bad luck, I think. But until then gamesou already started greening and tried to pile the game by depleting Duchies and Duchesses. I just weren't able to come back from this.


Game 2:



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Apothecary, Black Market, Smugglers, Wishing Well, Bureaucrat, Conspirator, Farming Village, Fortress, Contraband
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140326/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1395866536493.txt

I open Black Market/Chapel while gamesou opens Contraband/Chapel what was probably the superior opening. My opening buys collided anyway I felt that I was way behind pretty fast. I think I did a good job blocking the cards he wants to buy with his Contraband, naming Black Market first and later Wishing Well because of his Conspirators, so that he was mostly only able to buy one card. In turn 9 I got out of the Black Market what I was waiting for: Witch. gamesou got Bishop out of it and trashed his Chapel with it, something that probably was a bit premature as I can play the Witch each turn and he couldn't keep up with the trashing and he is only able to trash a Fortress once in the game with it. I then finally got around to pick up the Smugglers and my Conspirator chain starts working very well. gamesou bought a Province in turn 10, but then his deck fell apart with all the Curses in it. One turn I misclicked and bought Tunnel out of the Black Market game, but in the end I was even able to trigger it twice with my Farming Villages. I later was able to regularly hit Provinces while he couldn't get more than 2 what won me the game.


Game 3:



Code: [Select]
Forager, Navigator, Silk Road, Apprentice, Highway, Merchant Ship, Tactician, Adventurer, Goons, Forge
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140326/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1395867430879.txt

I totally missed Tactician/Forge in this game and opened Forager/Silver, getting a second Forager soon and aiming for a Tactician deck with a lot of Highways and one Goons. gamesou open 5/2 though and opened Tactician getting his Tactician in turn 3, buying Forge in turn 4, playing Tactician again in turn 5, forging half of his deck in turn 6, playing Tactician in turn 7 again and forging the whole deck into a Goons in turn 8, so basically the best shuffle luck you can get. So, even if I would have seen Tactician/Forge, I never would have been able to compete with that. He then gets 8 of the Highways and wins easily.


Game 4:



Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Hermit, Sage, Pirate Ship, Trader, Worker's Village, Golem, Council Room, Mountebank, Rogue
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140326/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1395868357237.txt

Now THIS game. Please help me out here. I'm so confused. Please watch the video for the full awesomeness. Well there's a Mountebank which is always a big deal. Okay there is Hermit and Trader which can counter Mountebank a bit, but still, ... right? So I open Hermit/Trader, aiming to Silver flood and depending if he gets Trader(s) getting Mountebanks or not. Okay, gamesou opens Hermit/Silver. I can understand that. But then he buys a Potion in turn 3! POTION!? What is he trying to do!? Okay, maybe he is trying to play Mountebank over and over again with his Golems. Still I'm confused. Then he gets a Pirate Ship in turn 4! PIRATE SHIP!? Okay, now I'm getting really confused. What is he trying to do!? Well, I just try to don't care, although I'm fealing really uncomfortable because I must clearly miss an obvious strategy that I just couldn't find. I just Silver flood as good as I can and try to don't care. I think now I must punish him and get 2 Mountebanks in turn 6 and 7. gamesou now heavily goes for Hermits and turns a lot into Madmen. In turn 9 he already let 2 of them go crazy, but couldn't find his Worker's Village, so he had to spend $9P for a Golem. I think he is super unlucky there. I also get a bit unlucky because my Mountebanks decided to be BFF as they always collided. But he really didn't care as he could easily immediately trash Curses with all his Hermits he had. In turn 13 I had enough for my first Province while gamesou still only got one Pirate Ship and now started to pile on Sages. He then gets double Pirate Ship, I get my second Province. Then gets tokens 4 and 5 and let 2 of his Hermit turn into Madmen. I get my third Province. All is fine, right? He then plays some Madmen and gets to a Double Province turn and gains a Herbalist from a Hermit. I get my fourth Province in a row. He then gets Duchy/Worker's Village. I get a Duchy, he gets a Duchy. I get Province #5 and draw another Province hand, so this should be the game for me, as I lead with 17 points and only 1 Province remaining and he can only get to 4 buys max, right? WRONG! He finds both of his remaining Madmen, draws his only Hermit trashing his only Curse, gaining an Estate and gets to both of his Worker's Villages and his Herbalist for the 4 buys he needs to buy triple Duchy and a Province for a 1 point win. WHAT!? Unbelievable, I think. Please tell me what I did wrong here. Is Pirate Ship really the way to go, or did I just get unlucky?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:31:50 pm by Qvist »
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DG

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2014, 03:13:44 pm »
0

DG 3.5 - 0.5 Faust

Game 1 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1395943957191.txt
I think I'm going to be in trouble when my opponent gets a lead after a 5/2 rebuild opening but I have first turn advantage and a young witch so things recover later on and I can buy the last curse when ahead. I'm guessing more banes would have helped.
Game 2 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1395944648392.txt
I'm playing a quite a dull duchy duke game but my opponent tries something a bit more clever with counterfeit and madman that probably didn't deserve to fade away as a 3 pile ending drawn on estates.
Game 3 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1395945271361.txt
There's quite a lot potentially going on here. Faust opens swindler/swindler so I take the opportunity to try a beggar and it seems to work. After we both take altars and I feel this going to descend into an igg/duchy rush so I empty the iggs even with no left curses in the supply and then focus on the rush.
Game 4 - http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50733066fca2ca7237ee9b77.1395946260044.txt
Faust is drawn into a quite difficult altar/salvager engine but I follow my draws and play a quite dull margrave+treasure deck on the grounds that even if the engine works it wouldn't stop a treasure deck scoring steadily. 

Thanks for the games.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2014, 03:23:32 pm »
0

soulnet 3 - 3 JOG

Exciting match, with a bit of everything, engine, slog, money, mistakes, good strategy executed poorly being beaten by inferior strategy executed thoroughly...

Game 1: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395936182328.txt
Code: [Select]
Poor House, Lighthouse, Fortune Teller, Smugglers, Tunnel, Bridge, Feast, Monument, Ghost Ship, Jester
No village, no draw. This is a money game. Oh, Ghost Ship+BM, how ugly. Oh, I better get some lighthouses. Oh, if getting a lot of lighthouses = opponent's Ghost Ships are terrible. I plan to open Monument+Lighthouse and dive Lighthouses, Monuments and money. However, he opens Lighthouse on $4, so I do not dive the LH and go heavier on monuments. He tries Smugglers and it pays off, Smuggling Monument and Gold eventually. However, his initial lack of money and my early Monument give me some advantage. I get penultimate Province while ahead, and have plenty of Golds. However, his Ghost Ships made it through exactly when I have Province money and he gets a nice hand (I still do not know how it happened) and wins it. It seemed from my point of view, that I was just unlucky in the endgame race for VP.
0 - 1

Game 2: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395937223434.txt
Code: [Select]
Fool's Gold, Moat, Trade Route, Ironmonger, Salvager, Treasure Map, Bandit Camp, Festival, Ghost Ship, GoonsThis is OBVIOUSLY a Goons engine, right? Well, that is so obvious, that neither of us actually do it. He starts off with Fool's Gold, which I think are clearly a mistake against Goons, because you cannot finish up the Provinces by yourself and I am not going to help. I start building an engine, but I am not discilpined and this takes a long time because there is no good draw and no good trashing. After getting lots of Goons and Ironmongers, I see him change his mind and go for the engine, so piles start running low. In the first double Goons opportunity, I change into a slog and start accumulating points and draining piles. He keeps building, which is the right move, but is not patient enough to actually go for the multigoons every turn and buys some green (probably feeling out of time, but I think was the wrong move). I win with a not so big margin, probably due to his failed start with Fool's Gold which gave me a huge advantage.
1 - 1

Game 3: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395938423479.txt
Code: [Select]
Lighthouse, Stonemason, University, Masquerade, Procession, Talisman, Counting House, Highway, Tactician, HaremThis has awful draw (just Masquerade) and awful Villages and pseudo-+buy in Tactitian and Talisman, not really nice. I go for heavy trashing with Masq and then Highways with Talisman to double up first Highways and then Platinums. The deck comes together fast and I seem to be miles ahead. He goes for University but quickly changes because he notices is not fast enough. However, his Tactitian is really nice (I never pick up one) and lets him time his buys better than me. I cannot buy the last Colony because I would lose on turns, and my deck is overbuilt. He does incredible tactical manouvers with his Tactitian hands to get Stonemason and play it to deplete Provinces and win. I should have been planning for the endgame a bit more and get SM or Tactitian for some extra endgame control. Also, trashing Colony for two Provinces actually gives positive VP (as opposed to trashing Provinces and getting Duchies), so SM is even better as extra VP source.
1 - 2


Game 4: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395939493188.txt
Code: [Select]
Poor House, Chapel, Apothecary, Mining Village, Nomad Camp, Remake, Embassy, Hunting Party, Merchant Guild, MountebankThis is the most interesting board of the match. Lots of possibilities. I pass on Remake because of Poor House, and go for Apothecary to be resilient to Mountebanks Coppers. He opens both Remake and Chapel, going for Poor House treasureless deck. He starts off really fast, getting a nice HP stack and most of the villages, to the point that I start buying them just out of fear of being left out. He has a nice engine and I trashed my Coppers and find myself out of money. However, once I start playing two Mountebanks a turn, I completely bury him in junk and his HPs and Poor Houses are horrible. I finish up this one on piles, but after the heavy attacks, the game was over.
2 - 2

Game 5: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395940443670.txt
Code: [Select]
Embargo, Squire, Swindler, Bishop, Feodum, Remake, Thief, Golem, Library, Wharf
We both open Squire+Wharf on 2/5. It is strange to see Swindler ignored being the only Attack, but we only have a bad village pile (Squire) to share. We both get Remake and start building Wharf drawing engine, adding Bishops eventually. I add more money at the beginning, which lets me get Wharves going faster, which eventually means that I win the Wharf split 6-4, which I think gave me the win.
3 - 2

Game 6: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50a44d70e4b09c3f1c235128.1395941880484.txt
Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Moat, Sage, Advisor, Bridge, Farming Village, Navigator, Counting House, Ghost Ship, TributeThis is obviously a Bridge megaturn, so again, we both do something else. I open 5/2 and open Ghost Ship, which I think sets me in the wrong direction of going money. Of course, after some time, his Moats, Sages and FVs could not care less about my GS while I struggle under his constant Ghost Shipping. I think I had a small oppportunity in this game, but only because he, inexplicably for me, did not add enough Bridges to his engine to get an actual megaturn. Especially since he was overdrawing his deck before starting greening, it was clear that adding bridges and then going for megaturn was going to work. In any case, the game was completely under his control at that point.
3 - 3
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 03:24:36 pm by soulnet »
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dethwing

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2014, 04:00:26 pm »
+1

My match vs Jdaki:

Game 1: First, W, http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1395948241669.txt

Game 2: Second, W, http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1395949373692.txt

Game 3: Second, W, http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1395950002447.txt

Game 1: Council room / inn / merchant guild engine. I got really lucky hitting 2 marauders before he got 1. I should have focussed on council instead of hunting parties. Really bad vs ruins with no trashing!

Game 2: Festival/watchtower. When they ran out I shoulda gone more bakers isntead of labs.

Game 3: No draw = Big money. Merchant guild seemed like best  big money enabler.
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Qvist

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 04:00:46 pm »
+1

I just got notified that my video is bugged as the video stops after 28 mins and only audio works. Not sure what caused that, but I try to re-render and re-upload it as fast as I can.
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JOG

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2014, 05:39:46 pm »
+1

Thanks for games soulnet. 

In first game, I think you're right.  It was just a race for endgame vp and you ended up getting unlucky.

In the goons game (game 2), I'm not sure if goon's engine is better than goons/money- what you did.  Draw is weak and the only reliable village could slow down engine.  Plan from the beginning here for me was to get just a few fool's gold for economy, then build engine.  I should have built just a little more before greening because piles weren't all that low.  I would guess goon's engine, played perfectly, would be slightly better than goons/money here.

In game 4, passing on remake was the right call I think.  I didn't realize there were poor houses until I remade my first copper in turn 7.

Game 5- squire/wharf mirror.  I think you played the wharf engine close to perfectly.  If I was going to play this board again, I think I'd try squire/library instead of squire/wharf.

Game 6- ghost ship money vs bridge engine.  I don't think it's correct here to add 3 or 4 more bridges to the engine and go for megaturn here.  I was just barely drawing my deck and using all or nearly all of my spare actions to do it.  Adding bridges means you might not have enough actions to play them and it would increase the risk of dead hands.  Even without the extra bridges, I had quite a few turns that I couldn't get the engine started.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 06:05:20 pm »
0

Thanks for games soulnet. 

In first game, I think you're right.  It was just a race for endgame vp and you ended up getting unlucky.

In the goons game (game 2), I'm not sure if goon's engine is better than goons/money- what you did.  Draw is weak and the only reliable village could slow down engine.  Plan from the beginning here for me was to get just a few fool's gold for economy, then build engine.  I should have built just a little more before greening because piles weren't all that low.  I would guess goon's engine, played perfectly, would be slightly better than goons/money here.

In game 4, passing on remake was the right call I think.  I didn't realize there were poor houses until I remade my first copper in turn 7.

Game 5- squire/wharf mirror.  I think you played the wharf engine close to perfectly.  If I was going to play this board again, I think I'd try squire/library instead of squire/wharf.

Game 6- ghost ship money vs bridge engine.  I don't think it's correct here to add 3 or 4 more bridges to the engine and go for megaturn here.  I was just barely drawing my deck and using all or nearly all of my spare actions to do it.  Adding bridges means you might not have enough actions to play them and it would increase the risk of dead hands.  Even without the extra bridges, I had quite a few turns that I couldn't get the engine started.

Game 2: I still don't get the Fool's Gold plan. It seems like the added Treasure would just get in the way. Your engine-y deck seemed to work reasonably good by the end, I think going straight for it would have been the optimal choice instead of what you or I did. Possibly try to trash down a lot, even if Salvager is slow for trashing, and then trying to use Festival instead of Bandit Camp.

Game 5: I don't think squire/library could be fast enough. Wharf is more reliable AND provides the +Buy to amass Squires. And of course, Wharf and Library do mix really well. You would need a lot more Squires to make that work, and I think it is difficult you can get even half the pile against a Wharf opponent.

Game 6: Ok, sorry if I sounded too critical. It always looks easier from the spectator's seat (mine). This looks like a board to train tactical skills. A mirror would have been really delicate.

Thanks for the games!
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Psyduck

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 06:21:06 pm »
0


Psyduck - Emeric 3:0
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140326/log.5063625f0cf2b1ff4173dbab.1395870846570.txt
Masterpiece-Feodum with Colonies. Both of us go for the Feoda and a Silver flood. Emeric uses Nomad Camps to get hands with lots of money, while I spend some turns to trash down with Count, which proves to be strong. Soon I get lots of Silvers (21-18 at the end), while Emeric's deck suffers a bit from Masterpieces and his early Feoda. He gets 6 Feoda, but I get 7 Provinces and a Colony (thanks to Haven) for the win.

Thank you Emeric for the games, and good luck in the rest of the tournament.

Hmm this one is interesting. I think i would have done somethink completely different than you two did. In my experience in Feodum Masterpiece games it is most important to get up to big Masterpieces. On 5/2 i think i would have gone Rabble to reach that and on 4/3 i would have even opened Treasure Map/Silver and get another 1 or 2 Treasure Maps the next shuffle. After they collided you will have a 12-14$ hand and can get 9-11 Silvers on a single Masterpiece. You will probably lose the Feodum split 5/3 or even 6/2 this way, but if you lose in 6/2 your opponents economy will be so crippled that you can easily catch up on Points with your AMAZING Economy having 4 Golds and about 13 Silvers in your Deck from around turn 7 on. If your opponent also builds up a bit and doesnt start on Feoda too early you will get at least 3 of them and those will be worth much more than his 5 in that case.

Thanks for your feedback. I certainly agree with you that it's most important here to get big hands as soon as possible. However I still think that Count is quite good to reach that goal. The +$3 bonus helps a lot, but in that game I decided to trash down first. This way I made sure having lots of $8 hands later on. Having 21 Silvers out of 31 cards after turn 9 does not seem slow to me, although I'm not sure if Rabble might accomplish even more. Honestly, Treasure Map is a card that I didn't consider here at all, as I really dislike relying on them to collide. But I agree that they can be strong if they collide early enough.
What I did wrong here is to go for Provinces over Feoda. The Feoda were worth even more, and my opponent could buy them easily even with his weaker economy.
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 08:39:19 pm »
0

Titandrake 1 - 3 GeoLib

Entire broadcast at http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/514804927, starting at around 30 minutes in. I'll see what I can do for individual matches later.

Games:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395956286956.txt

Rebuild game, GeoLib has 5/2 opening, but I don't think that's a big lead here. I open Smugglers/Silver over Militia/Silver which turns out awful, I have no money and waste so many opening buys.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395957456723.txt

I try some Mercenary-Treasure Map-Remodel thing, but I misplay by buying Silver over a 3rd Urchin early, and my Urchins don't connect until it's too late. GeoLib does Catacombs-BM, which chat thinks is better. If Urchins collide and Treasure Maps collide reasonably fast, I think Mercenary is better, but you're at the mercy of shuffle luck for that strategy, and Tunnel is a nice counter to it.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395959010898.txt

GeoLib DCed on a closer game, with Chapel, Ghost Ship, and Border Village as the only village. This game was a blowout, GeoLib's 5/2 is completely awful. In theory this board is really weird, a very strong engine with Ambassador + Goons, but also Possession. In practice, Possession isn't as good against a Goons deck, and I easily win the Ambassador war early because of opening luck.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395960471595.txt

And this is a blowout against me, on turns 3 and 4 I get $4 twice while GeoLib gets $5 twice. I do a lot of thinking about whether one of those $4s should have been Remodel or not, turning Estates into Tournaments isn't a bad backup plan. I end up not doing so, opting to buy more Tournaments. The problem is that I'm forced to buy lots of Tournaments because I don't want Silver here, and then when GeoLib gets a Province they all turn dead.

I definitely misplayed the first 2 games, and the luck evened out on the last 2, so overall I'm okay with this series. Thanks for the games!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 08:41:40 pm by Titandrake »
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2014, 10:52:23 pm »
0

jaybeez 3 - SquisherX 0

Game 1
Not much to say.  A decent engine with trashing beats a sort of half-engine-half-money deck with no trashing.

Game 2
Witch is better than Soothsayer.

Game 3
This is really why I wanted to post these comments.  I go for a pretty boring Silver/Oasis into mostly-money deck, my opponent builds a really zany engine based around Stonemasoning things to trigger Market Squares to gain Golds, then Stonemasoning those Golds into $5s, then gaining the Golds back with Rogue.  I knew it was going to be way too slow, but he made the game closer than I was expecting, and with even a little bit of draw oh man that would be a fun engine to play.  So kudos to SquisherX for giving it the old college try.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2014, 10:53:35 pm »
0

Entire broadcast at http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/514804927, starting at around 30 minutes in. I'll see what I can do for individual matches later.

I can't get the video to play. It says "loading video" and then I get what looks like a darkened title screen for "Binding of Isaac." Am I missing something?
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2014, 03:02:45 am »
0

Hm, it works for me when I try it. Twitch's video system is notorious for its awful quality, so you may need to pause the video and wait for it to load the segment you want to watch before going there.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2014, 12:51:57 pm »
+2

I just got notified that my video is bugged as the video stops after 28 mins and only audio works. Not sure what caused that, but I try to re-render and re-upload it as fast as I can.



Please watch the last game of this match tell me what you think. I'm still baffled.
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GeoLib

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2014, 01:05:20 pm »
0

Hm, it works for me when I try it. Twitch's video system is notorious for its awful quality, so you may need to pause the video and wait for it to load the segment you want to watch before going there.

It's working for me now. Not sure what was wrong.
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Burning Skull

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2014, 04:31:57 pm »
0

Quote
Please watch the last game of this match tell me what you think. I'm still baffled.

That's the coolest thing I've ever seen!

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2014, 04:42:07 pm »
0

Hm, it works for me when I try it. Twitch's video system is notorious for its awful quality, so you may need to pause the video and wait for it to load the segment you want to watch before going there.

It's working for me now. Not sure what was wrong.
When watching Twitch archive streams from mobile phone I use this Twitch Download Tool.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2014, 04:44:03 pm »
0

Please watch the last game of this match tell me what you think. I'm still baffled.
One less mountebank collision and you would win. Also you hit a lot of 7s. I think you got unlucky.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2014, 06:58:20 pm »
0

Gamesou vs Qvist:
Game 2 - there a chance to play wishing well to test the top of the deck before playing farming village
Game 3-  there was an opportunity to play 8 highways and forge copper into provinces
Game 4-  the madman/pirate thing was extreme but sage-pirate was simpler to spot and then the rest made sense, sort of
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2014, 07:49:29 pm »
0

Titandrake 1 - 3 GeoLib

Entire broadcast at http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/514804927, starting at around 30 minutes in. I'll see what I can do for individual matches later.

Games:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395956286956.txt

Rebuild game, GeoLib has 5/2 opening, but I don't think that's a big lead here. I open Smugglers/Silver over Militia/Silver which turns out awful, I have no money and waste so many opening buys.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395957456723.txt

I try some Mercenary-Treasure Map-Remodel thing, but I misplay by buying Silver over a 3rd Urchin early, and my Urchins don't connect until it's too late. GeoLib does Catacombs-BM, which chat thinks is better. If Urchins collide and Treasure Maps collide reasonably fast, I think Mercenary is better, but you're at the mercy of shuffle luck for that strategy, and Tunnel is a nice counter to it.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395959010898.txt

GeoLib DCed on a closer game, with Chapel, Ghost Ship, and Border Village as the only village. This game was a blowout, GeoLib's 5/2 is completely awful. In theory this board is really weird, a very strong engine with Ambassador + Goons, but also Possession. In practice, Possession isn't as good against a Goons deck, and I easily win the Ambassador war early because of opening luck.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140327/log.50ca9bbae4b0c3bfb6b97227.1395960471595.txt

And this is a blowout against me, on turns 3 and 4 I get $4 twice while GeoLib gets $5 twice. I do a lot of thinking about whether one of those $4s should have been Remodel or not, turning Estates into Tournaments isn't a bad backup plan. I end up not doing so, opting to buy more Tournaments. The problem is that I'm forced to buy lots of Tournaments because I don't want Silver here, and then when GeoLib gets a Province they all turn dead.

I definitely misplayed the first 2 games, and the luck evened out on the last 2, so overall I'm okay with this series. Thanks for the games!

So actual commentary on the games from me:

Game 1: Is 5/2 really an advantage at all? I thought it was a little bit of a disadvantage. Notably both of us nuked our economy pretty badly here. Should my smugglers have been a silver? I figured that smugglers would be good for smuggling duchies, especially since he had also picked one up. Also, was getting all of those estates actually a good idea? I thought that I would be able to rebuild the first couple and then I realized that I wouldn't actually, so I figured what the hell, I'll go for the points since I kept hitting 2. I think it worked out in the end, but was it actually the right call? I didn't get a second rebuild til T15.

Game 2: I think catacombs-tunnel was the right call here. Merc seemed too slow and terminal with no +action. I don't think I played it right though, since my catacombs never hit tunnel. Should I have bought catacombs over gold more often?

Game 3: The one where I got disconnected was actually interesting and close (apparently if you right click in the goko window and click view image it attempts to take you to a png for the entire game and crashes. I fidget with my mouse sometimes when I'm playing. These things to do not combine well. Fun times.) This game was just so painful though. I don't think I was ever even close. Should the second amb have been a silver instead? I don't know. I don't remember the last time I played a game where I felt this helpless from the very beginning.

Game 4: I got super lucky here with the 5/5 on T3/4. From there it was pretty hard for Titandrake to try to catch up. I think I should have just gone for the kill on this one earlier and skipped the duchies, but slogging it out worked out ok anyway. The luck from those last two balance pretty nicely. I'm disappointed that we didn't get to finish the first game 3. It would have been much closer.

Anyway, thanks for the games Titandrake. Thank you also for streaming. It was fun to watch the games from the other side! It would've been nice to be able to see the twitch chat too, but ah well.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2014, 01:17:10 pm »
+4

Jimmmmm 3.5, AdamH 2.5

A very close and hard-fought match comes down to the last game where our scores were tied. Yeah I wish things had gone differently, but you make your own shuffle luck.

Link to the Twitch stream
Link to the video playlist on YouTube


Game 1:  AdamH 6, Jimmmmm 12
Kingdom Cards: Vineyard, Chapel, Hermit, Market Square, Smugglers, Monument, Young Witch, Stash, Upgrade, Vault, Bank
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

Yeah well this game. Hermit/Market Square dominates the scene and I'm stuck with a terrible 5/2 opening. I waffle a little bit about maybe opening with an Upgrade to try and get more Hermits that way but eventually just decide to cry and open nothing/Hermit. Terrible start. My opponents sees me pass T1 without a Chapel and says "wow" which makes me think he's not aware of the combo (which he wasn't) so I have a pretty good chance here as he's going for a Vineyards rush that I didn't think was super-strong. He contests the Hermits and they split 5-5, partially because a lovely four-Hermit hand I had, then the Market Squares split 5-5 as well.

Then on turn 10 it's time to pull the trigger. With one Madman in my hand I quickly calculate that I really don't need much to pile the Estates and win this turn so I go for it. The plan fails fantastically as I draw my Madman only after playing one too many Market Squares so that I can't get enough Gold to buy the Estates I need. At this point the game is just totally lost while I desperately scramble around to try and come up with something.

Actually if there's one game in this match I'm bummed about it's this one: after the match a couple of people and I were talking about anything I could have done differently and we couldn't come up with anything -- that shuffle starting at T10 doomed me to lose the game no matter what happened, and I gave myself the highest chance of winning (over 80%) by doing what I did -- we even considered getting more Madmen and using Chapels to trigger MS instead of Hermit but even that doesn't work because Jimm just empties the Chapels too fast and wins. Top that with the fact that things would have been very different on a 3/4 opening or if I hadn't drawn four Hermits on T5 and I'm finally ready to say this game breaks my "you make your own shuffle luck" rule. Oh yeah, and if I had won this game the match outcome would have been different. It's just a little depressing to lose like this when playing such a better strategy, but it's just a game.  :-\


Game 2: Jimmmmm 25, AdamH 46
Kingdom Cards: Native Village, University, Great Hall, Market Square, Caravan, Ironmonger, Wandering Minstrel, Worker's Village, Counterfeit, Governor
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

Semi-interesting Governor game. I open 5/2 on a Governor board which helps a lot, but I really like my play here. The interesting thing is that there are no terminals on the board so Market Square becomes Strictly Better™ than Worker's Village. Not much else to say about it though.


Game 3: Jimmmmm 34, AdamH 34
Kingdom Cards: Duchess, Market Square, Envoy, Nomad Camp, Counting House, Governor, Junk Dealer, Knights, Laboratory, Treasury, with Shelters
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

Slightly more interesting Governor game here -- this time Jimmmmm gets the 5/2 and is leading throughout the game, but focuses a lot more on Market Squares and Gold and less on draw which gives me a window to get back in it. The endgame is tense where I'm trying to find situations where I can not-lose the game, and a fortunate draw on my last turn gives me the chance to take a tie which I'm very glad to accept.


Game 4: AdamH 28, Jimmmmm 34
Kingdom Cards: Pawn, Forager, Armory, Coppersmith, JackOfAllTrades, Noble Brigand, Spice Merchant, Treasure Map, Contraband, Horn of Plenty
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

Jack and money with support. It was a mirror and he won. Maybe it was because his Foragers collided with his Jacks more often? I dunno.


Game 5: AdamH 27, Jimmmmm 22
Kingdom Cards: Cellar, Courtyard, Lookout, Swindler, Advisor, Gardens, Rats, Market, Merchant Ship, Stables, with Shelters
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

This game was probably the most interesting in the series, especially after reading the chat. Swindler is Always Good™ and it certainly is here. With no village and Stables as non-terminal draw I decide to go for a draw engine while Jimmmmm goes for a more money-ish, more "Swindler-proof" deck. The chat is calling me crazy for trying this, but Cellar is a wonderful card. The chat is telling me I need to buy Coppers to help out my Stables but I didn't want them to become Purples so I thin them out with great deck tracking skills and strategic Lookout plays. I really really like the way I played this board and I'm really happy with this game.


Game 6: Jimmmmm 50, AdamH 40
Kingdom Cards: Pearl Diver, Fishing Village, Philosopher's Stone, Taxman, Counterfeit, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Trading Post, Treasury, Harem, with Shelters
Game log     Twitch Video     YouTube Video

It all comes down to this last game and it's money?! Ugh! I was hoping for something a little more high-skill. Here it's Taxman and money with some trasher on $5. Jimmmmm chooses Trading Post but I can't hit $5 on my second shuffle so I skip it and go directly for Counterfeit (he gets one later too). I think that makes a big difference because he gets into a great position until T21 where he can buy the last Province and win, but he miscounts the Provinces and grabs Double Duchy instead. Confident in my ability to count (lol) I get the last two Duchies on my next turn and then it all comes down to the last Province! He gets it first and has a pleasant surprise when he finds out he wins the game because of it.


Anyways, it's kinda sad for me that the H/MS game went the way it did and I'm out of the finals because of it, but the rest of the match was fun and exciting to play and that's why I'm in the tournament anyways. Thanks for the match!
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2014, 01:32:25 pm »
+1

On AdamH Game 1. I'm baffled by you not opening Upgrade/Chapel. It looks like the perfect opening to build into Hermit/Market Square. You can convert a few estates into Hermits. Upgrade the Chapel once it's done it's work. Remove all your coppers, play lots of Hermits. You can even gain a Gold or two early so that you can gain a $3 and buy one on a few turns. I don't think this is bad luck at all, I think it's a terrible opening on your part.

Even if you want to open Hermit, why would you not get a Chapel as well? What does keeping the Coppers really do for you?
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2014, 01:40:46 pm »
0

On AdamH Game 1. I'm baffled by you not opening Upgrade/Chapel. It looks like the perfect opening to build into Hermit/Market Square. You can convert a few estates into Hermits. Upgrade the Chapel once it's done it's work. Remove all your coppers, play lots of Hermits. You can even gain a Gold or two early so that you can gain a $3 and buy one on a few turns. I don't think this is bad luck at all, I think it's a terrible opening on your part.

Even if you want to open Hermit, why would you not get a Chapel as well? What does keeping the Coppers really do for you?

I don't see how Upgrade is any better than Hermit here for winning the Hermit Split. Both trash Estates and gain Hermits, but Hermit is much more flexible in doing so; plus Hermit is Hermit which is progress towards the split. So to me the options are either Hermit/nothing or Hermit/Chapel to open on 5/2.

And I really don't think you want the Chapel. The main objective is to get Hermits, so if you're trashing your hand you're not buying a Hermit unless it's an edge case like Chapel and 2 or 3 Estates. Well if it was 2 Estates then Copper would have been better. If it's 3 Estates then I'm sure that's unlikely enough that getting nothing is better.

Keeping the Coppers isn't the best thing in the world but I think amassing Hermits is far more important than thinning here. He Jimmmmm hadn't gotten a Chapel he would have had 7 Hermits or something ridiculous.

I don't think my opening is "terrible" at all, other than the parts I couldn't change.
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Re: GokoDom III: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2014, 01:41:05 pm »
+1

On AdamH Game 1. I'm baffled by you not opening Upgrade/Chapel. It looks like the perfect opening to build into Hermit/Market Square. You can convert a few estates into Hermits. Upgrade the Chapel once it's done it's work. Remove all your coppers, play lots of Hermits. You can even gain a Gold or two early so that you can gain a $3 and buy one on a few turns. I don't think this is bad luck at all, I think it's a terrible opening on your part.

Even if you want to open Hermit, why would you not get a Chapel as well? What does keeping the Coppers really do for you?

The article for this combo advises against removing your Coppers. They create the "draw" for your Madmen after you discard all your Market Squares.
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