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Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko Dominion Salvager Discussion
« on: June 12, 2014, 06:35:39 pm »
fyi, I'm running the Beta version of Salvager on Windows + Chrome, and it's working fine.
QuoteRestored Villagethis is way too strong though
Cost 4 - Action
+2 Actions. Discard a card, then draw up to 5 cards in hand. If the discarded card was a Silver, put this on top of your deck at the start of Clean-up.
Restored VillageVery similar to production village, but whatever. I had forgetten about production village until you just posted it here. I like that it's a good defence against discarding attacks.
Cost 4 - Action
+2 Actions. Discard a card, then draw up to 5 cards in hand.
Too mechanically complex, for my liking, but maybe ok once I got used to it. Hard to tell.Oh yeah, I should've cut that. I agree if it doesn't stack, there's no need for the restriction.
I was thinking the first Princess could have an effect strictly better than the other ones, a la crossroads.
I had to read it a couple times to get it.. I think it's ok. I don't think the buying restriction is necessary though and that's some of the wordiness.
I always thought Dominion should have some special card that lets you play another action after you've used up all your actions for the turn. This is meant to be that card.QuoteTrailblazer
Cost 4 - Action
+1 card, +1 action. May play this card when you have no actions. If you do, discard a card (before drawing).
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When you gain this, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put any number of revealed Victory cards and Curses into your hand. Put the other cards back in any order.
The "[You] may play this card when you have no Actions" effect should be separated from the on-play effect by a line. "You may play this" is not something that happens as a result of playing the card, so it doesn't belong above the line. I don't love the concept in general, but if you use it, you should probably reword it. Something like, "During your Action phase, if you have no Actions remaining, you may discard a card to play this." Then specify in the FAQ that you can't do this in the middle of resolving another card, etc.
hehe. yeah I knew all lot of people would probably hate this card concept, but I felt like doing it anyway. I think if it works and it's fun to play with in my games, then it's not for naught.QuoteFountain Gargoyle
Cost 4 - Victory - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Worth $1 this turn and next.
Worth 1VP.
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When you discard this when it isn't your turn, +$2 on your turn.
So the whole concept of the card is that it has 4 different colors? Eaugh.
If you keep the Reaction, it should read, "When you discard this on another player's turn, you may set it aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, +$2 and discard this."
I wondered about this. Would it help if I say "Each other player may trash a card costing at least $2 from their hand. If they do, they gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the card they trashed." ?QuoteJoint Upgrade
Cost 4 - Action
+1 Card. Trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more. Each other player may trash a card from their hand. If they do, they gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the card they trashed.
I think this is very weak. +1 Card is probably a decent boost for Remodel, but the bonus for other players is much better, seeing as they didn't have to buy or play the card.
Maybe I should just make this cost $3?QuoteGenerous Benefactor
Cost 4 - Action - Duration
+1 action, +$1.
Next turn: +$2, +1 Buy.
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While this is in play, each other player gets +$1 on their turn.
So it's a Copper this turn and a Grand Market next turn. But it's a Treasury for each other player. Too weak, I think.
I disagree. I want this card to be a mucker more often than a junker, including the first time it's played in a game.QuoteAuditor
Cost 4 - Action - Attack
+1 Card. You may discard any number of cards. +1 card per card discarded. Each other player discards the second card from their deck, then looks through their discard pile and topdecks a ruins or a card that is not an action or treasure. If they didn't topdeck a card, they gain a ruins.
I think "Ruins or a card that is not an Action or Treasure" is too complex to be worth it. How about just a Ruins?
I got it to fit in the card-size and printed it to use. It isn't in neat rows though. And yes, it means the two cards revealed by the player to your left. ...But this makes me wonder about its interactions with reaction cards. I'll have to give that some thought.QuoteGambler
Cost 4 - Action - Attack
Each other player reveals their top two cards and discards a revealed action or treasure costing at least $3. If the total cost of the first two revealed cards is... ...10 or more: +$4, 8-9: +$3, 5-7: +$2, 2-4: +$1, less than 2: discard a card.
"First two revealed cards" would be, under most circumstances, the two cards that the player to your left reveals? It's not easy to parse. It's a cute concept, but I think it's pretty inelegant. It needs a table with 5 rows, which there may not be room for on a card with that other text.
Hey that's a good idea.QuoteRestored Village
Cost 4 - Action
+2 Actions. You may discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand. You may discard a treasure. If you did, put this on top of your deck at the start of your clean-up phase.
How about a consolidated version?QuoteRestored Village
Cost 4 - Action
+2 Actions. Discard a card, then draw up to 5 cards in hand. If the discarded card was a Silver, put this on top of your deck at the start of Clean-up.
well, I liked that versitility that you could use it to trash coppers also.QuoteMetalworkers
Cost 5 - Action
+3 Cards, +1 Buy. Discard or trash a treasure card. If the card you trash or discard is a gold, +1 Action.
Interesting idea. I think I'd simplify it further.QuoteMetalworkers
Cost 5 - Action
+4 Cards, +1 Buy. Discard a Treasure (or reveal a hand with no Treasures). If the discarded card wasn't Copper, +1 Action.
I'm sure it'd be great in a BM deck. But I'm not sure that's a bad thing, when it would also be good for some engines.QuoteShrewd Dealer
Cost 5 - Action
+1 Buy. Reveal the top three cards of your deck. Put all revealed treasure cards in your hand. You may discard one other revealed card. Put the rest back in any order.
I worry that this makes you want Treasures a bit too much.
The ability to return cards to the supply is part of the card concept. Each option applies the 'kingdom restoration' in a different way, but I think both fit the flavor so I don't think it's unrelated.QuoteKingdom Restoration
Cost 5 - Action
+1 Action.
Choose one: Discard two cards from your deck. Then look through your discard pile and put up to two cards from it on top of your deck, OR Look through the trash pile and return up to two cards to the supply. Either way, +1 Card.
Cool idea. I'd get rid of the returning cards to the Supply bit. The card is interesting and useful enough without that extra, unrelated ability. You may also want to clarify that it's the top 2 cards of your deck that are discarded, but that's not essential.
I'm inclined to agree with you on this one. I wanted to make a version of king's court that I'd like, but I don't really like how this turned out. I'll probably do something like what silverspawn suggested, or I might just give up on this idea.QuoteRoyal Authority
Cost 6 - Action
If you have no actions in hand, reveal your hand, then reveal deck cards until you reveal an action, put the action in your hand and discard the rest. Choose an action card in your hand. You may play it once, twice, or if it costs less than $4 and isn't an attack, you may play it three times.
Ugh, clunky. I think as much as possible, cards should strive for elegance, and this is the opposite of that. I've criticized other cards of yours for this already, but "You may play it once, twice, or if it costs less than $4 and isn't an attack, you may play it three times" is ridiculously over-complex and difficult to remember. I also don't like the part where you dig for an Action card if you don't have one. I think it should either always dig for an Action or never dig for one, regardless of what's in your hand.
The thing I like about Princess is that you get the Bridge effect without any potential for stacking, so its linear. If I made a 10 card stack version of it, I'd want additional princesses to be really solid sources of +buy but for only the first one to reduce costs.I did actually have something like that in mind, but would this be as interesting?:
I hate to come to custom card threads and make a post that's kind of like "throw your card away and do X", but I do think OP may have had that spirit of design in mind based on his first post so I thought I would mention the notion.
Princess
Cost $6 Action
+1 Buy. If this is not the first princess you played this turn, +$3.
While a princess is in play, cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0. This cost reduction does not stack with multiple princesses.
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You may not buy this card for less than $6.
In this case, however, there's a much simpler explanation: you're looking at Goko "Casual" ratings. Isotropish only cares about Pro games.<facepalm> oops, yeah I just forgot that I turned off that option in Salvager to make it show pro ratings...
I guess you're right......but a $2 cost that lets people play an action twice seems too strong even though the card is being trashed. I agree with the other changes.
Throne Room only costs $4 and it doesn't trash the Action it plays. Trashing the Action is an enormous penalty. If you really think playing another Action twice and then trashing it is too powerful an effect for $2, I don't know what to tell you. I wouldn't buy that card for $0 if that's all it did.
oh. oops.I don't think it'd be as confusing as you're thinking. When a marketting agent leaves play, that token is removed. If there are two of someone's marketting agents which apply to the same card, there'd be two of his tokens on that card. (The original version didn't even have tokens. It just said "name a card" Now that was too confusing...) I like your idea for above the line.
By the wording of your card, if I have three tokens on three different cards, each of those cards costs $3 more. Also, if you play a Marketting Agent with Throne Room or King's Court, you place multiple tokens, but you only remove one when you discard the Marketting Agent. In this way you can accumulate unlimited tokens over the course of the game.
Also, "marketting" doesn't have two 'T's. It's spelled "marketing".
Marketing Agent
Cost 3 - Action - Duration
Put one of your Agent tokens on a supply pile.
Next turn: +$2.
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While a marketing agent is in play, your agent token(s) cause cards from that pile to cost $1 more except during your buy phase when they cost $1 less. When this leaves play, remove any token(s) you placed with this Marketing Agent. Setup: Each player has unique Agent tokens.
You can definitely create interesting cards using ideas from official expansions in new ways, but I think that it's not necessarily a good idea to design a whole expansion without a theme — if you have a bunch of cards that aren't really connected in any way, the cards can be very good and interesting, but why call that an expansion?Um, there are themes, in mechanics and flavor in my expansion which I even pointed out in the OP.
I like the approach of designing individual cards until you have a reason to group some of them together, then designing more cards specifically for that expansion/whatever it is if it feels right.This is exactly what I did.
CounterattackcounterattackCounterattack
cost 2 - reaction.
When plays the attack card you may reveal this. If you do opponent trashes that attack.
$2 Action - Attack
Throw a counter at each opponent.
I think most of these are too weak. In general, I think an expansion should focus on some new mechanic, or at least on a mechanic that hasn't been the focus of an expansion before.Personally, I think there's plenty of room for fan expansions that use preexisting mechanics in new ways.
I guess I'm not surprised that it seems weak, but a $2 cost that lets people play an action twice seems too strong even though the card is being trashed. I agree with the other changes.QuoteIron Furnace
Cost 2 - Action
Reveal a card from your hand. If it's an action, play it. If it's a treasure, +$1. If it's a victory card, +1 card. In any case, trash the revealed card.
This is super-weak, even when trashing bad cards. It's nice that it's flexible, but I don't think that saves it. I suggest you double all the bonuses, like so…QuoteIron Furnace
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Reveal a card from your hand. If it's an Action, play it twice. If it's a Treasure, +$2. If it's a Victory card, +2 Cards. Trash the revealed card.
I like the idea of using the bottom card. I didn't think of that. I guess I have a hard time judging a card's strength without more playtesting. Hmm, maybe I could just make it cost $2.QuotePotluck"3rd from the top" is awkward. I suggest using the bottom card of your deck instead.
Cost 3 - Action
Reveal the card that is 3rd from the top of your deck. If it's an action card: play it and +1 action. If it's a treasure card, put it into your hand and +$1. Otherwise, discard it and +1 card.
Like Iron Furnace, this is too weak. When a card is unreliable, the different options should each be powerful relative to its cost. But this is just a Village, [+1 Card; +$1], and [sift a card; +1 Card], respectively. Super weak! Maybe the Treasure option is fine, but the other two definitely need a buff. Probably all three.
I still think there must a way to word it better so it's not as confusing. I'll have to think about it more.QuoteFoundationI think this is too confusing to be worth doing. That's just my opinion.
Cost 3 - Action - Reaction
+1 card, +1 action.
-
This may take the place of any card costing up to $4 any time you trash or discard a card. When this card is discarded from your hand besides during a clean-up phase, +1 card. When this card is trashed, gain a silver.
I don't think it'd be as confusing as you're thinking. When a marketting agent leaves play, that token is removed. If there are two of someone's marketting agents which apply to the same card, there'd be two of his tokens on that card. (The original version didn't even have tokens. It just said "name a card" Now that was too confusing...) I like your idea for above the line.QuoteMarketting AgentTerminal +1 Card just seems really bad. You can't use it for a draw engine since it doesn't increase your hand size, yet you still have the issue of maybe drawing stuff dead. I would get rid of it and just change the next-turn effect to +$2 or something.
Cost 3 - Action - Duration
+1 Card.
Put one of your Agent tokens on a supply pile.
Next turn: +$1.
-
While this is in play, any card with your agent token costs $1 more except during your buy phase when it costs $1 less. When this leaves play, remove one of your tokens. Setup: Each player has unique Agent tokens.
I think the whole concept isn't worth having 4 to 6 sets of uniquely colored tokens and then calculating each card's cost based on all the tokens. "OK, I play Remodel and trash this Estate, which is worth $3 because one of my red tokens is on Estate. What can I gain? Well, there are blue and green tokens on Caravan. Whose tokens are these? Do you have a Marketting Agent in play? If not, these tokens don't count. Only one of you does, but you actually have two Marketting Agents in play, so your token counts double? Guess I can't gain a Caravan."
I guess I confused myself with the top half, I was thinking you could reveal a $4 card. oops. Maybe I'll say "You may reveal a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than it."QuoteCollectablesThe top half is incredibly weak, especially considering you can really only gain cards costing up to $2 (or less), because the card you reveal from your hand costs $1 more than it otherwise would. I predict that the bottom half will generate a lot of rules questions. If fact, I don't even think it does what you want it to do. When you Procession a Band of Misfits, you play it twice, trash it (now it's in the trash and worth $5 again), then gain an Action card costing $6. Likewise, if you trash an Estate with Collectables, it's in the trash by the time you gain a card, so it costs $2 again.
Cost 3 - Action - Duration
+1 Action.
Start of next turn: You may reveal a card from your hand costing up to $3. If you do, gain a copy of it.
-
While this is in play, all cards in your hand, deck, or discard pile cost $1 more.
PedestalAdded the "up to 3" limitation. Still need to update the image. Test rating 2/7.
Cost $3 - Action / Reaction
+$1.
Discard up to 3 action or treasure cards. +1 VP for each card discarded this way.
-
When you discard this from your hand, +$1 during your turn.
ArchaeologistThis version test rating 2/7. Originally based on Aidan Millow's Archaeologist from the Dark Ages contest. It's had major changes since the previous version.
$5 - Action - Preserve
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Gain a ruins, putting it into your hand.
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When you gain this, you may put your +1 Action, +1 Card, $1, or +1 Buy token on the ruins pile.
Ancient TempleTest rating 1.5/7. much simplified fifth(?) version.
Cost $5 - Action
+1 Action. Discard a card. Gain a card costing up to $4, putting it into your hand.
Mysterious DoorTest rating 3/7. The attack was (usually) extremely weak, and the exciting part is getting to play it as more expensive action cards, so I removed the attack. It's simpler now.
Cost 2 - Action
The player to your left discards the bottom card of his deck. If it's... a victory card, +2 Cards; a treasure card, +; an action card, play this as the revealed action card -it is that card until it leaves play.
AuditorTest rating 3/7. An attack that makes it harder to trash your junk.
Cost $4 - Action / Attack
+$2, +1 Buy.
Each other player reveals their hand and discards all curses, ruins, and pure victory cards.
Salvage YardTest rating 2/7. Haven't found a suitable image for it. (May need a new name to fit with an image, maybe 'Recover'.)
Cost $1 - Event
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card you discarded.
Mortar RepairTest rating 3/7. It's been tested a few times since the other thread, and I like it. (The previous version seemed slightly weak so I made it reveal two cards.)
Cost 3 - Action/Material
Reveal your top 2 deck cards. You may discard one. You may trash one. Put any remaining back on your deck. If you trashed one, gain a card costing up to $3. Otherwise, +1 Action, +$1.
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When this card is trashed, +$1 on your turn.
Building BlocksTest rating 3/7. I like this one. Based on mail-mi's Sorcerer's Apprentice card.
Cost $2 - Treasure/Reaction/Material
Worth $1. When you play this, reveal the top card of your deck and discard it or put it back.
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When you reveal this from your deck, you may put this into your hand. If you do, continue revealing cards as if you hadn't revealed this card.
FoundationTest rating 3/7.
Cost 3 - Action/Reaction/Material
+1 Action. Reveal your top deck card. Discard it or put it back. +1 Card.
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When this card is discarded besides during a clean-up phase, +1 card during your turn.
Generous BenefactorTest rating 2/7. Working well.
Cost 3 - Action - Duration
+1 action, +$1.
Next turn: +$2, +1 Buy.
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While this is in play, each other player gets +$1 after they finish playing treasures in their buy phase if they have no gold, platnum, or attack cards in play.
DrawbridgeTest rating 3/7. It seemed very strong for $3 as it was, so I made the cost for the attacker smaller for the attack to get through.
Cost 3 - Action - Duration
+2 cards. Next turn: You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +1 card.
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While this is in play, when another player plays an attack card, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.
Restored VillageTest rating 4/7. I decided I like the $4 cost version better so I changed it back. It's powerful often, but sometimes it can be worse than a necropolis. Still, it was too strong for $4, so I thought of an on-buy drawback. The part in parenthesis is included in the rules for Preserve cards. It's just a reminder here.
Cost 4 - Action - Preserve
+2 Actions. Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.
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When you buy this, gain a ruins (or discard a card to gain a special ruins instead).
TrailblazerTest rating 4/7. (Name and on-gain effect shamelessly stolen from a card by Just a Rube)
Cost 3 - Action
+1 card, +1 action.
During your action phase with this in your hand, you may discard a card. If you do, play this without using an action.
-
When you gain this, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put any number of revealed Victory cards and Curses into your hand. Put the other cards back in any order.
CollectablesTest rating 3/7.
Cost 4 - Action - Duration
+1 Card, +1 Action. Next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck, if it costs $5 or more, put it into your hand.
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While this is in play, all cards in your hand, deck, or discard pile cost $1 more.
MinerTest rating 4/7. Seems to work well.
Cost 4 - Action
+$1. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one revealed treasure into your hand. Discard one other revealed card. Put the rest back in any order.
VandalTest rating 4/7. Fun fact: This picture of a graffiti Texas A&M logo was taken in Rome, Italy.
$5 - Action - Attack - Looter
+2 cards. Each other player may reveal a victory card from his hand and put it onto his deck. If he doesn't, he gains a ruins. You may reveal a victory card from your hand and put it on your deck. If you do, +$2.
Fountain GargoyleTest rating 2/7. I know certain people won't like the looks of this version, but we've played with it and we like it. Fun is what matters not dividing lines or minor details like that. (Now it has five types, But then I wouldn't actually print it or mock it up with the looter type on it.)
Cost $5 - Action / Attack / Looter / Duration / Victory
+1 Action.
This turn and next: +$1.
Worth 1VP
-
Until your next turn, when another player gains a victory card, he reveals and puts a pure victory card or a ruins from his discard pile on top of his deck.
Kingdom RestorationTest rating 3/7.
Cost 5 - Action
+1 Action.
You may discard the top card of your deck. Then look through your discard pile and put up to two cards from it on top of your deck. +1 Card.
-
During your buy phase, you may pay $1 to return a card from the trash pile to the supply.
PioneerTest rating 3/7. I changed it to use the wording Lastfootnote suggested, gave it a name, and tested it in a couple games. I got the idea for this card in a dream.
Cost 5 - Action - Duration - Preserve
+3 Cards, +1 Buy.
-
While this is in play, when you buy an Action card, you may set it aside. If you do, play it at the start of your next turn, then trash it.
Ancestral CryptTest rating 3/7.
Cost 5 - Action - Victory
+1 Card. Trash up to two cards from your hand. For each card you trash that costs more than $0, take a coin token.
-
Worth 1 VP
Royal HeirloomTest rating 4/7.
Cost 5 - Action - Duration
Reveal deck cards until you reveal an action card, put the action card in your hand and discard the rest. Then choose an action card from your hand. Play it now and play it again at the start of your next turn.
Iron FurnaceTest rating 3/7. (will probably cut because of the similarity to Sacrifice.)
Cost 2 - Action
Reveal a card from your hand. If it's an action, play it. If it's a ruins, play it again. If it's a treasure, +$2. If it's a victory card, +2 cards. In any case, trash the revealed card.
Joint UpgradeTo be replaced...
Cost 4 - Action
+2 Cards. Trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more. Each other player may trash a card and discard a card from their hand. If they do, they gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the card they trashed.
PatricianTest rating 2/7. (Originally based on Confessor by RTT.) Thinking of bringing this one back to the main list and just have the attack happen "If this is the first Patrician you played this turn". An attacking village. The problem is that it can make people shuffle a lot, but if you do the attack without shuffling it makes multiples of the card too nasty. (The name is of course a reference to the ruler of Ankh Morpork. I love Discworld books. ...and now I'll have to change the name )
Cost 5 - Action - Attack
+2 Actions. Each player (including you) reveals cards from their deck until they reveal an action or treasure card costing at least $3. Put yours in your hand and discard the rest; each other player discards theirs and shuffles the other revealed cards back in their deck.
And you can use "/" as "exclusion", so
Alchemy / Action = {Vineyard, Philosopher's Stone}
And the words that you can combine like this include all card types, all expansions, all costs, and all individual cards.
Confisticate $5 Action-AttackI like this one. It seems like a new, good idea for an attack card.
+$2
Name 2 cards. Each other player discards a copy of one of the named cards (or reveals a hand without them), then draws up to five cards.
Princess - $3
While this is in play, all cards cost $2 less.
The original Princess for $6 isn't obviously broken either.I think it is. But then I also slightly nerfed highways and goons for my IRL games and certain other cards I just don't play with. For me, those cards as they are tend to make the game less fun (and not just when I'm losing).
Princess
Cost $6 Action
+1 Buy.
While this is in play, cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0. This cost reduction only applies for up to three buys per turn.
-
You may not buy this card for less than $6.
PrincessI'm wondering if I might've nerfed it too much.
Cost $6 Action
+1 Buy.
While a princess is in play, cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0. This cost reduction only applies for up to three buys per princess you have in play.
-
You may not buy this if you have a princess in play.
Oh, oops, I forgot about that part.I'm pretty sure Samson trashes Philistines, and Delilah turns Samson into Blind Samson, who trashes Pillars, Philistines, and himself.Samson didn't go blind. He temporarily lost his strength when Delilah cut his hair. That's how they were able to chain him to the pillars. He gained his strength back when he prayed after he was chained to the pillars.
Samson $? Action
Each other player reveals their hand. Trash any revealed Philistines and Pillars. If more than one Pillar is trashed, trash this.
After Delilah cut his hair, the Philistines gouged his eyes out. You may as well give Delilah credit for it, because they weren't having any luck trying to do that before then.