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[EFHW]

@Voltaire, Walrus, mail-mi and Teproc:  I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think we should lynch either Eevee or yuma today.  I can move back to Eevee if you are more comfortable lynching him, since he's been lurking a lot.  They seem very much linked b/c of yuma's defending Eevee so vigorously, and I think there is a good chance they are the scum team, and we can wrap this game up.  If I'm wrong, then we'll know and I'll look elsewhere.  But I think this is the thing to do today.  Are you with me?

[mail-mi]

@Voltaire, Walrus, mail-mi and Teproc:  I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think we should lynch either Eevee or yuma today.  I can move back to Eevee if you are more comfortable lynching him, since he's been lurking a lot.  They seem very much linked b/c of yuma's defending Eevee so vigorously, and I think there is a good chance they are the scum team, and we can wrap this game up.  If I'm wrong, then we'll know and I'll look elsewhere.  But I think this is the thing to do today.  Are you with me?

I have no qualms about it.

[Voltaire]

I don't even remember yuma defending Eevee. I need to re-read.

[Voltaire]

1. WalrusMcFishSr - my thoughts are known - a scum read
2. Chairs/Teproc - chairs's outing looked like town frustration (the way it went down), teproc has been playing impressively and quite towny. i disagree with giving yuma town points for soft deadline suggestions, as he does that in every game, but teproc is still a solid town read.
3. Robz888 Killed Night1, Vanilla Townie - rest in peace robz, we will avenge you!
4. Voltaire - hasnt had revolutionary great ideas, has actually blended in surprisingly edgelessly. slight scum read for that (and for all i know thats the best way to catch scumvoltaire.. i'm not sure though.)
5. Yuma - is so hard to read. putting in a lot of effort reads towny on intuational level.
6. EFHW - an enigma? she always seems to avoid my attention for some reason. scummy due to PoE / not doing anything towny-appearing.
7. Mail-Mi - voting history yesteday is the single scummiest thing yet to happen this game. would be very willing to lynch. does anyone recall how town/scum mail-mi has voted in the past? i dont mean not explaining his votes here, i mean plobbing them down to anyone who has a remote chance of getting lynched.
8. Eevee - that's me, town!
9. Faust Lynched Day1, Vanilla Townie - poor faust.

Eevee, what was your goal with this post?

[Eevee]

I was replying to a question a fine fellow from Chicago asked me, let me find the quote.

Here it is:

Eevee, what are your thoughts on everyone who isn't Walrus?

So. it was copypasting the player list from the op and trying to write down my thoughts on everyone, as you asked.

[Voltaire]

Gotcha. It contains many strangely scummy statements, so in our wonderful world I find this rather town of you as you should "know better".

I do not buy EFHW's scumteam theory.

[yuma]

there is stuff i need to respond to that requires two hands... I only have one atm due to baby holding, so responding here is going to have to wail til later this evening, but i have lots to say

[Teproc]

Well, I expected a little more coming back. Isn't this supposed to be the soft deadline ? I understand there's another game going on, but I get what someone (?) was saying about soft deadlines having no effect now...

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 2.5:

Voltaire (1): Walrus
Mail-mi (1): Teproc
Eevee (2): mail-mi, Eevee
EFHW (1): Yuma
Yuma (1): EFHW

Not Voting (1): Voltaire

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 2 ends November 13 at 8:00 p.m.

[Teproc]

@Twistedarcher : Eevee is voting for mail-mi, not for... himself

[EFHW]

I'm here, waiting to hear more responses to my wish to lynch Eevee or yuma today.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 2.6:

Voltaire (1): Walrus
Mail-mi (2): Teproc, Eevee
Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (1): Yuma
Yuma (1): EFHW

Not Voting (1): Voltaire

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 2 ends November 13 at 8:00 p.m.

[yuma]

Alright, full posts finally coming from me in the next little bit. Hope to be fully caught up and set on a lynch candidate by end of the night.

[yuma]

This is the second time yuma has come after me right after I made a case against Eevee.

reply #136

The wagon on Robz.. hmmh. First of all, I don't like the attitude of "not having to do anything to make it disappear". But, would Robz be so bold as mafia? I can't say he is a townread for me, but I'd expect mafia to be less controversial in their wording of the critique for the wagon. Just playing more pro-town would have been an easier path for Robz, for sure.

This doesn't make sense coming from Eevee who has played with Robz countless times and knows he would absolutely say that as scum or town.  He could be protecting a scumbuddy or looking for towncred vote: Eevee.

Replies: 137-143  There is an exchange between me and Eevee, a single-line comment from mail-mi and then:

Reply #144

vote: EFHW

I have more responses to his case that will take more time to pull together.

Well both times it was because something you did caught my interest. Look, I am not thinking eevee is town. He is probably square in the middle on that front... but your approaches to him--and throughout the game--have caught my attention and caused me to go back and look at you more in depth. If the same approach were to any other player, I would have reacted the same. Obviously town can't know that, but that is the way it is. That is how I play. I see something that causes me to want to go back and reread that player as I don't have time to do rereads on everyone, so I have to be selective.

[yuma]

Regarding the scumminess of having many suspicions and not stating any townreads, you are deciding to see that as scummy by imagining a scenario in which it could be.  I see that as scumhunting.  If I had a townread, I would say it.  It would hardly be helpful for me to state townreads I don't have.  You yourself have played similarly:

From LOTR2 (a 13 player game):

I am also comfortable waiting until Day 3 to proceed further with massclaim.

If TA feels the same, then I will issue my challenge.  If not, I will wait until after massclaim concludes.

Yuma seems to be quick to issue suspicions today, and I haven't really heard him call anyone (but chairs) towny. Even with me and nkirbit it seemed to me more like he was thanking us for helping his agenda further rather than giving us any town points.

I am always quick to issue with suspicion. You know that. I had called arch townie previous to his lying (based mostly off my following result). I find you townie, based off your claim and further evidence that chairs is town. Other than that... I don't know. Oh... mcmc I think is town.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. For starters, it is a horrible example. Let me bold why for you. In this very post I give out FOUR town reads! FOUR!

So this is not an example of me playing the same as you are playing here. You had given out ZERO town reads. ZERO. That I think is scummy. Very much so.

I will say it again, when a player is scum their focus is less on finding players townie--that eliminates the pool for which you can lynch. Because if you have a town read on someone it becomes sooo much harder as scum to flip and decide to lynch that player--it looks extraordinarily scummy--so if you have a town read on someone as scum you hold true to that read. As a result so much of scum's efforts is instead put onto making other people scummy and trying to get them mislynched. Putting out town reads as scum takes tremendous effort and risk. I think this is a situation where scum overlooked that facet of the game because I can't believe that town would go into a game and have ZERO town reads. I just can't. Because if you have ZERO town reads that means you have ZERO scum reads as everyone is scummy. So in the end you aren't scum hunting. You aren't separating the wheat from the chaff. You are just finding everyone else scummy, which is something that scum does.

[yuma]

I have done a lot of posting in Day 2.  I know you are busy, but neglecting that makes it look like you are only looking for what you can call scummy, not trying to figure out if I am actually scum or not.

Baby and work. Sorry my schedule can't be more convenient. I am trying to figure out if you are scum or not. I said I would go back adn look at day2 and I will, but I am not one to just leave my thoughts hanging w/o any action. I think what I found day1 was worthy of a vote. If I find anything day2 that might change or anything from other players. But when I find something scummy, I say that it is scummy and I vote it.

This is just you trying to discredit my case.

[yuma]

Basically I am looking for your strategies and calling them out when I see them b/c they are effective and I seem to be your target in this game.

except for that huge swath of time that I was on voltaire and faust day1 and voltaire day2... you seem to think that I have been harping on you all game. I haven't. I have early on day1 and late day2. But again... paranoia.

[yuma]

FINALLY, you are still relying on this initial case you made on me that was based entirely on my having a null read on one person and a scum read on another person who had defended my nullread.  I backed you up on this in that I see the value in alerting town to possible warning signs, but voting me on that basis and then consistently calling me scummy from there on is excessive, and scummy.

vote: yuma.

I said nothing about my initial case in my post with my latest vote on you and am certainly not relying on it in anyway. It was an early case that I eventually dropped. My voting for you right now has very little to do with that. I think it is one example of you not having a town read, but instead a scum read and a null read. So I don't know why you think that I am still relying on it when I have not said anything about it in quite a while...

Oh and OMGURS

[yuma]

I just looked back through all of EFHW's posts today and there was nothing about Eevee there, so it must be in regard to this post... vote: EFHW

This is false. EFHW has expressed suspicion (and voted for) Eevee day 1 because of his response to Robz "this wagon will dissipate anyway" comment.

I said EFHW's post today as in day2. I didn't go back and read through her posts day1 until later. So my statement is true.

[yuma]

1. So, EFHW hasn't had a town read in the game. This is true IIRC.

How is that scummy ? Being suspicious of everyone seems like the definition of town to me.

Well, you answered that actually, but it seems like a stretch to me. Isn't scum more likely to actively have town reads on people because then these people will think : "Oh, he/she's so perceptive and sees I'm town !"

I strongly disagree. Like emphatically and exuberantly disagree. See my posts above about this but I'll say more again here. When you are scum, once you have a town read you need a really good reason to move your vote. Or else you attract tremendous attention. And for scum they don't care about finding people townie... they already know everyone is town. So their attention is on making people look scum.

The fact that EFHW doesn't have town reads means she isn't scum hunting. She is just trying to make people look scummy. She isn't trying to separate out who is town and who is scum. This is very, very, very scummy to me because it actually goes into the mindsets of someone as scum and shows what scum's true motivation is. I would be extremely surprised if EFHW is town. Obviously I am not 100% sure, but I would put my confidence up in the 75% range or even higher, which is extremely high for me. It is rare enough that I even feel comfortable putting a number on it.

2. This is what's worrying me. This vote against Eevee reads as barely disguised OMGUS, and she had one or two of those already day 1.

3. Do you mean not responding day 1 ? I think she did, and specified Pirates was the one she was talking about. I'l have to reread that exchange.

Add in another OMGUS vote on me just now.

As for point three. She did respond and said Pirates was the one she was talking about. But in that post she implied that there were other games, just that Pirates was the most significant. I went back and checked and found out that there weren't any other games. That pirates was the only one. This makes me think that she might have been using pirates as an exaggeration as an appeal to emotion.

I will note here that I am not sure why that Pirates game would have such an impact on her (I am sorry if it did)... she survived through the whole thing and wasn't mislynched. I did suspect her, but it wasn't like she was lynched because of it.

[Eevee]

I hadnt quite realized how scummy having no town reads actually is until yuma spelled it out just now.

I support vote: efwh, something needs to be done to get us out of this "one core
for every single player" situation we seem to
be stuck in.

[yuma]

Do you not find it scummy that yuma voted and pursued me initially based solely on the similarity to Theorel from a game I wasn't in and didn't follow?

Based soley on? Again. That was an early case. I said nothing about it in my latest vote on you. So.... not sure why you are even bringing this up.

[yuma]

@Voltaire, Walrus, mail-mi and Teproc:  I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think we should lynch either Eevee or yuma today.  I can move back to Eevee if you are more comfortable lynching him, since he's been lurking a lot.  They seem very much linked b/c of yuma's defending Eevee so vigorously, and I think there is a good chance they are the scum team, and we can wrap this game up.  If I'm wrong, then we'll know and I'll look elsewhere.  But I think this is the thing to do today.  Are you with me?

Back this up. I have voted for you twice because of things I noticed in relation to you voting eevee, but I have certainly not defended him vigorously.

More alarm bells here.

[yuma]

I'm here, waiting to hear more responses to my wish to lynch Eevee or yuma today.

No thanks, but I appreciate the offer.

[EFHW]

I hadnt quite realized how scummy having no town reads actually is until yuma spelled it out just now.

I support vote: efwh, something needs to be done to get us out of this "one core
for every single player" situation we seem to
be stuck in.

I don't know what this means.