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[yuma]

don't not lynch me because everyone wants to lynch me, don't lynch me because I'm town.

I'll go look for/read the cases people made on me, if they exist.

This post is so horribly annoying...

first part... you are town! Oh really? I didn't realize that! unvote thanks for clearing that up!

Why are you just now responding to the cases made against you now that you are at L-1? Why not respond along the way? If they exist. Oh, they exist. There has been a long dialogue about you that apparently you completely decided to ignore/or dismiss as not existing?

Oh, yeah... vote: liopoil

[yuma]

to everyone that was in B2B does this scream as loud to you as it does to me of his attitude that he took to me day3 when he knew he was caught out?

Overly sarcastic, appeals to emotion, resorting to a very defensive posture. Voltaire, nkirbit, mail-mi and eevee I know where town in that game. Shraeye modded. Robz was his scumpartner (not sure how much he paid attention after he was lynched) Do you guys notice the similarity?

yuma compared robz and I, and actually it seems kind of sheeped shraeye's reread of me. not much for me to say there.

is it sheeping to compare the two cases that have been presented on players that are not my preferred lynch (nkirbit) and determine which case is better? Because that is what I was doing and I don't think that classifies as sheeping. What mail-mi has done... sheeping. Sure. What I have done is look at the quality and to an extent the quantity as well as the reads players who are making the cases (nkirbit voting for you is a slight concern, but I have good town reads on shraeye and robz at this point I think). I don't see how you could classify that as sheeping unless you were attempting to discredit my vote on you.

I think an intent to lynch from shraeye would be appropriate at this juncture... (take your time shraeye, well maybe not too much time...)

[nkirbit]

Sorry Yuma, I wasn't paying enough attention to B2B at that point to comment one way or the other.

[yuma]

Sorry Yuma, I wasn't paying enough attention to B2B at that point to comment one way or the other.

if we are still going tomorrow when I have some free time maybe I will go back and pull some quotes. I am only going off memory myself, but I think there are some similarities... I remember because lio was starting to get to me at that point, I was really beginning to think he might be town, but the evidence was so overwhelming. Once I learned he was mafia I told myself not to trust him when it came to that sort of a defense again, his latest post struck that nerve.

[shraeye]

shraeye's reread of me, which concludes that he is very fine lynching me. snipped for just the stuff he suspects me for. my text in red.

#182 makes a case to avoid claiming, saying that PRs becoming ICs is the power of the claim.  And then he says that PRs are unlynchable anyway, because they can claim at L-1.  This is only true for day1, however.  When Umbrage scolds him for not paying attention to the setup, liopoil gets huffy because he was only talking about day1 apparently, but wanted PRs to get some utility.  Actually, this is a really hard post to parse.

My reaction had nothing to do with the vote, it was to him scolding me about not paying attention, when in reality I'm more caught up than I really should be. so yes, if we don't claim today we can't trust claimants on later days - however, if we claim now, at least one, likely two of our PRs gets killed tonight. by D3 start all of our ICs will probably be gone, AND they didn't help us D1 because we couldn't lynch them anyway, so they were ONLY helpful on D2. I can see vig claiming because he will still be  able to shoot once, but cop claiming? nahh, his PR is too good, especially if vig claims.

scumpoints here.  I am not sure what liopoil is talking about.  Liopoil is saying that the PRs will only be helpful on D2, but before he was talking about them as ICs.  I don’t see how they “don’t’ help us D1” if you want to use them as ICs scumpoints because you don't understand my post?? I'm saying that they are unlynchable D1 no matter whether they claim or not, because if they are about to be lynched, they will claim, and become IC unless scum counterclaims. If scum counterclaims, town is happy. so in terms of ICs on D1, it doesn't matter if they claim or not.

#498

Query:  should UoS reveal his role? 

if he's the vigilante, yes. so I think he should claim vig/not vig.

liopoil:  say UoS is the Roleblocker.  Why do you think it would be better for the Town if he claims "not vig" instead of claiming "roleblocker?" 

hmmm. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of "claiming is a bad idea unless he's the vig", but he already claimed... so meh. okay, fullclaiming makes sense to me. I doubt he is scum, but if he is, making him fullclaim will catch him, while hardly helping scum at all if he's town. also, it prevents fakeclaims if he is NKed.

one thing I wasn't totally aware of: if we lynch scum, we find out the alignments of the players they have killed. so that makes scum fakeclaim slightly less viable, because they could get caught when we lynch their buddy.

I guess this was the fate of the vig/not-vig claim.  Again, liopoil inserts the seed of doubt into UoS’s claim saying “I doubt he is, but IF he is…”  This is rather odd given liopoil’s earlier stance of “only PRs would claim PRs, they are basically our ICs”.  Also, when he’s talking about finding alignment of players who scum have killed, he is completely disregarding the SK, who has no partners.  I think this could be telling, and that liopoil has a high chance of being the SK. UoS could be scum because scum could fakeclaim, especially if we're only generic PR claiming. But hopefully they get caught. I say the PRs are ICs because the only way they can be lynched D1 is if something that helps town more than an IC happens (scum fakeclaim)

Unvote

VG has a point - he does make the same mistake in reverse in that QT. that means a lot for me really, and think that it's more of a null tell.

I'll feel really silly if he is indeed scum, and yeah, this unvote will look really bad, but oh well, I don't want to lynch him, so I'm unvoting.

#732

Well, let me leave you all with this.  I don't expect anyone to believe this now, but if you lynch me, perhaps you'll come back to this after my flip.

Vote: Robz

Robz planted the idea of "early VT claim = scummy" regarding ash.  But he has not pushed that line of thought heavily - not nearly like he did in the game where pingpongsam did the same thing and got crucified for it.  Instead, he let me push it instead.  This is likely scum!Robz, who likes nothing more than to see me make his cases for him. 

I believe ash.  But be careful gang about his focus on yuma.  I'm not convinced yuma is scum - I think ash v. yuma is town v. town, being egged on by scum on the sidelines.  Unfortunately, ash will probably try to force a him-or-me with yuma.  ash, if you're town:  Just please be careful about doing that. 

I think shraeye is town and doing his damnedest.  I'm sorry I blundered into your sights.  That's on me, not on you.

...coming back to this...

not really sold on the robz bit, that doesn't seem like much. I agree with ash-yuma being town-town. shraeye? no idea, I should look at his case again. I remember I didn't like it, but dunno if it was scummy or not.

If liopoil didn’t like my case yesterday, than that meant that he was voting for Voltgloss purely over the slip (although he recanted that).  This is actually exactly what I was looking for when going through the reactions to Voltgloss’s slip-lynch, was somebody who didn’t believe the case, but was sold based on the slip.  I didn’t see this before, because I only analyzed up to the end of Day1. Scummy for sure. Why is this scummy? lots of people did this, and even if it was just me, it isn't scummy.

#806 liopoil’s posting again slows down, and here he makes a case on Robz.  One point stands out to me, the rest of the case looks fairly strechy, and very uninteresting

- so many of his post are double posts, a continuation of what he said in his most recent post. I can totally see anyone thinking of something they should have said in the last post, but still. I don't really believe that scum inflate their post counts, but if they ever do, this is it.

This point takes something that is actually towny, and stretches it into being another “reason” that Robz is scum.  I think that the reason that mafia have low post counts is because they like to keep all their posts very concise, and edit them for maximum clarity.  I think it’s much more towny to post something, realize it’s slightly incomplete, then post addendums and such.  Scum is much more likely to have put full thought into their post the first time around, and posted a nice pretty thing with no omissions at all.
So seriously? You’re trying to zing Robz for inflating his postcount?  Robz is nowhere near the bottom, so he’s not “racing to keep his count up”.  Nobody really looks at post counts anymore as indicative of anything (or at least, I don’t think they should) unless the postcount is super-extreme.  This is a really scummy point to have made like I've said - this was not intended as a point against robz.

I'm responding to three of his "defenses".

First two red things, if you're intending to use the PRs as ICs as youwere, it doesn't make sense to only let them operate on day1 as you said.  that's the part i dont understand, and the fact that you were unclear here is scummy.

third red thing; I already explained why this is scummy.

fourth red thing in next post.

[shraeye]

If it's not a point about why he's scum, why are you charging the language up like that?

"I can totally see anyone...BUT STILL"

"I don't really believe that scum inflate their...BUT IF THEY EVER DO, THIS IS IT"

Why they heck did you use language like this if "it was not intended as a point against Robz"

The best answer you gave to this question WHICH I ALREADY ASKED WAS

it's not a case, It was a re-read. I included everything that I found of interest.

Ridiculous.  you don't phrase things as you did if you aren't trying to convince others.  ergo, a case.

[shraeye]

shraeye, rank your scum reads. You're throwing up long posts that have found (unless I've missed something) the same scummy players as everyone else.

I reread the day2.  I think Eevee/yuma be towny, along with Robz/voltaire.  Jorbles is very very "go with the wind".  He deserves a hard look tomorrow.

liopoil is my main scumread, and it's a huge one.  nkirbit is suspicious. mail-mi is null, a hard to read dude.

[shraeye]

after rereading day2 in full, I am so ready to lynch liopoil.

I mean, read his defense in #993.  with regards to nkirbit's suspicions, liopoil says "it would be really weird if I showed up just to say i had a null read".  Dude, that's not the point, and it's not what nkirbit said.  Townliopoil ISN"T null on that wagon, he has things to say about it.  you're just dialing it in, and this defense shows even more of that.  His defense against mailmi is to try to paint him as suspicious for "randomly" picking liopoil's case to sheep.  It sounds much more like liopoil is frustrated that mail-mi is voting him than an actual defense of anything mail-mi or anyone else said.  This is caught scum, and i'm uninterested in hearing more from him.

vote: liopoil

[Archetype]

Thread Locked

Results posted tommorow.

[Archetype]

"W-What are you all doing!?" liopoil asked, his back pressed against the corner, wide-eyed and nervous.

"We know you're one of those evil Daleks." Shraeye replied, clenching his fists around the rope wrapped around his hands.

"And we have reads!" yuma said enthusiastically.

"Yeah, reads!" mail-mi exclaimed thrusting a book into the air.

"Not those kind of reads. You've been acting suspicious all day long, especially that look you gave when that spaceship appeared." Shraeye said seriously.

"I was scared!" liopoil protested.

"Yeah right!" The crowd chorused.

"I'm serious!" He replied.

"Then who are you?" nkiribt asked.

liopoil opened his mouth to speak, but he was caught off by shraeye. "No. Enough talk." he said, pulling the rope taunt. "It's time for a lynch."

[Archetype]

Vote Count 2.FINAL

nkirbit (1) Voltaire
Robz888 (2) liopoil, Jorbles
liopoil (5) nkirbit, Robz888, mail-mi, Yuma, shraeye

Not Voting (1)Eevee

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day will end August 26th

Liopoil, otherwise known as Mickey Smith the Vanilla Townie has been lynched!


Night 2 start!
48 hours to get night actions in to sudgy and me.

[Archetype]

Episode 3

With little information about what is going on and who is good and who is evil, times have been drastic. And drastic times call for drastic measures.

Only 6 bodies stood up from that night's slumber. Thoughts of characters such as an Ood Sigma, Sarah Jane Smith, and a Judoon Captain flashed through the group's mind. Vicious nightmares depicting an elusive metal robot  with a license to kill haunted them throughout the night. But who were these mysterious strangers? We're any of them still alive?

yuma did a quick head count and reported  backto the group, "Eight of us fell asleep last night, where are the other two?"

Everyone looked around in an attempt to find the missing bodies. Voltaire poked around the fallen furniture and was horrified over what he saw.

"I-I think this used to be Eevee" He said, pointing to a pile of ashes tucked against the base of a bookshelf.

"Is he a friend or foe?" Robz888 asked.

"Impossible to tell." Voltaire replied. "Only the killer would know his true identity."

"Uh, guys." mail-mi shouted. "You might want to come over here."

The five other guests walked to the underside of the stairs where mail-mi stood mouth a-gape staring at the floor.

"What is it?" shraeye asked.

"Yeah, what hap-" But Voltaire was caught off mid-sentence. There, on the floor, were what were most likely Jorbles ashes spread across the wooden planks. But they weren't arranged randomly.

In crude displacement of charred body parts read the words "YOU'RE NEXT!"

*twilight zone music*

[Archetype]

Jorbles was vaporized. Their alignment and power is unknown.

Eevee was vaporized. Their alignment and power is unknown.


Not Voting (6) nkirbit, Robz888, mail-mi, Yuma, shraeye, Voltaire
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

The day will end on September 6th.

Day 3 start!

[mail-mi]

Okay, we could be dealing with anywhere from 1-3 scum. I'm actually thinking its two, considering only 6 people alive.

[Robz888]

It's weird not knowing how bad we are doing. My guess is somewhere between pretty bad and really bad. Hopefully Eevee or Jorbles were scum?

[Voltaire]

Okay, we could be dealing with anywhere from 1-3 scum. I'm actually thinking its two, considering only 6 people alive.

Actually we could be forced to play kingmaker - that's how the most recent MafiaScum game ended. LyLo with 1 town, 1 mafia, SK. I'm not assuming anything.

My big V/LA is coming up tomorrow. I'm going to try to get something down about where I stand tonight and then I'll be away till basically Monday, some lite checking in but I won't be able to do anything labor-intensive (like re-reads) during that.

[Robz888]

We do have some decisions to make. Let me stress that these conversations have to be very careful. Don't reveal stuff.

So, we have not yet had three night kills. Of course a few things could have caused this.

Scum overlap.
Scum/vig overlap.
Role blocking.
Vig not shooting (something I would argue was at least correct on night 1)

We might be in a situation where we would want our Vig to shoot tonight, because we need to get lucky. I do think we should discuss that a little bit.

Our vig and blocker, if alive, may have useful information. Mass claim should be discussed, yes?

Of course, all PRs may be dead, in which case claiming opens up opportunities for scum. Scum know which PRs are dead, right? They gain that info, and have day chat? So basically they know whether to fake claim or not.

So this is all a bit tricky. I'm really by sure what to do--the best thing might be to do my bong and just normal scum hunt. But, if we think we are I bad shape, we may just need to play risky.

If we mislynch today, and all scum have survived so far (which is probaby at least a decent chance?), that's quite bad.

[Robz888]

Clearly I was phone posting. Do my bong! Should be do nothing.

[yuma]

Right now I am assuming the worst that we have three scum still alive. I think everyone else should just do the same to play on the safe side.

Although a vig claiming that he had shot mafia or SK could give us some flexibility, although it could be mafia just trying to lead town astray into thinking we are in a good position...

My personal opinion is that if a vig is still alive and we don't hit scum with the lynch, the vig should fire away tonight. To me this is like MV where CFrisk won the game for town in a desperate situation with a vig (although at the time he wasn't sure if he was a vig or not) on me.... (worst game ever!)
 
However, if we do lynch mafia today I am not so sure that a vig shooting is necessary. Because a successful lynch might be enough to get us back into the game and a bad vig would just sink us back down again...

I for one need to do a complete reread. I am not sure where I will find the time, but it is certainly a priority as far as f.ds goes...

[Robz888]

Wow. Okay, I really wasn't expecting total silence here. Um, you guys know we are in the critical, exciting stage of the game, right?

Anyway here's who we have:

Not Voting (6) nkirbit, Robz888, mail-mi, Yuma, shraeye, Voltaire

I have no idea who I am inclined to suspect the least. I have a little suspicion of almost everyone.

I guess the only person I'm really not looking at very much here is shraeye. The way he pioneered the VG case on Day 1--against someone he knew would turn out town, if shraeye were scum--just seems to me as not a scum!move for him. He didn't need to do that to VG, and didn't it stand a good chance of hurting him?

I did say I wanted to look really hard at nkirbit today, who was my other big suspect yesterday, and is still alive.

However... I have to bring up my big concerns about yuma. Basically, it boils down to this: Yuma is still alive. And yuma is, without a doubt, the best scumhunter left in this game (he is arguably the best town player overall in my view). Most of the time, he is taken out at some point, because scum fear his awesome scumhunting abilities. And often when he DOES survive day after day, it's because he's scum. See Mean Girls and Deep Space Nine for examples of this (XIX and... XXV? My memory IS starting to fade on the numbers, unfortunately).

There are of course counter examples to this, and you know, maybe scum had higher priorities. (Certainly shooting UoS Day 1 was a big one). But, like, a bunch of scum decided to kill harmless lurkers Eevee and Jorbles, over yuma? Is that not a sign that yuma is himself scum?

[nkirbit]

Wow, I was very wrong about Liopoil.

I was thinking during the night, and was worried that scum were simply lurking their way through day2 while all the town players yelled at each other.  But Eevee and Jorbles are dead, so that theory is completely shot.

Robz, I guess it is surprising that Yuma is alive, but I'm not necessarily sure that indicates that he's not town.. if he were scum, he would be a good target for the other team too, right?

Here's a thought:  The SK, at this point during the night, is probably focused on shooting mafia as opposed to shooting town.  Is there anyone who had a scum-read on Eevee or Jorbles?  Perhaps we can find an SK there.  I'm worried that there wasn't, though, because all the active players were pretty much ignoring the inactive ones.

[nkirbit]

The other thing to consider:  Scum killed Eevee and Jorbles, which in a certain sense means that they're not desperate to change the environment of the game.. if the game were to continue it's course from yesterday, that would predict myself, Robz, Voltaire, and Yuma all pointing our fingers at each other.. that's what we were certainly doing yesterday.  Perhaps we should look outside that group.

Shraeye said this about my Lio case yesterday:  "I agree with this a lot."  Town!Shraeye hardly ever agrees with anything I say (perhaps never?  I can't think of anything at the moment.)  The only other time I remember him liking a case of mine was my case on Xeiron in Innovation, where I was heavily pushing for a mislynch of Xeiron and scum!Shraeye was agreeing with some of the things that I was saying.  I wonder if this isn't a repeat of that scenario.

[Robz888]

You are correct that the Eevee/Jorbles kill is scum saying, "Continue you the status quo, please." But, I mean it's a bit accidental--they can't coordinate. I would bet that mafia thought there was something up with Eevee, perhaps PR or SK--since he was so, so uncommonly quiet--and killed him. SK shoots Jorbles because.... it's just sort of random? I don't know. This is highly speculative.

Scum!yuma WOULD be a good target for the other team, but keep in mind that they aren't full teams. If yuma is mafia, the other team is just an SK, who may not have thought of killing yuma. You are new enough--and Voltaire was gone from f.ds at the time when yuma really became so great--that you may not know killing him is such a necessity, for instance.

[mail-mi]

Big suspects from Yesterday: Robz and Nk. I have a very hard time believing that both of them are town. I should reread them.

[mail-mi]

Okay reread on Robz:

heh nevermind bedtime. I got a little bit through, the super-long late rant on vigs is null-to-the very slightest amount of scummy.