So UoS has alleged that Jorbles "manufactured a case against him:
It isn't the vote that raises my eyebrows, or the fact that he posted a case about it. It's that his case almost entirely hinges on an opinion he "baited" me into.
I put bait in quotes because I had the opinion and very well might have stated it, but he's finding me scummy essentially for responding to his request for clarification, and it seems like his case is based on ignoring that and pretending like I kept posting about Ash because I wanted to steer the conversation that way, which is not true.
It's not that I think his case is bad, it's that I think it was manufactured.
This is the case:
To build on why I find UoS scummy are these two things, which I admit I am sheeping shraeye on, but it's only because I'd already had the same line of thought:
1. Suggesting ash's suggestion of a random vote was more serious than it was to see if it would stick.
2. His fishy post where he can't seem to decide if ash is townie or scummy, but he really seems to want someone to tell him they find ash scummy so he can agree and more comfortably vote for ash.
This is the sort of play I would expect from someone who A) hasn't played scum before, B) likes to be involved in the conversation, and C) thinks that the best way to play scum is to subtly guide the conversation. Anyhow these are still early reads, but I'm going to park my vote on him for a bit and see what happens.
Vote: UmbrageOfSnow
Here the quotes that Jorbles talks about and my opinion of them beneath it:
1-
How about a random D1 lynch?
What does that possibly gain us? Why not at least try to make a good choice.
followed by:
This exchange is what I was refering to.
How about a random D1 lynch?
What does that possibly gain us? Why not at least try to make a good choice.
I have zero information to go on. At least a flip with info would help that. I've seen good responses to my claiming idea, both for and against. I've seen little scummy behavior from anyone, at all. Mail-mi's bad joke about his PM is all there is to go on.
Lurkers? We could lynch a lurker I suppose.
I find that odd. And like whoever it was (nkirbit? Voltaire?) when I say odd, I mean odd here, not necessarily scummy.
I think it's pretty clearly a bad idea, but I don't think it gains Ash anything if he's scum anyway. I don't really know what to think of this. Thoughts?
in response to Jorbles asking:
I don't remember him pushing for a random lynch. Do you want to build on that UoS?
I know that both shraeye and I were like, "why mention it if you only think it was odd and not necessarily scummy because--well at least I did--missed that it was in response to a question by Jorbles.
So UoS initially reacted to the point from ash about no lynch in a non-scum hunting way. He responded to it basically the same way that I did... as in, its a bad idea, let's not do it. I don't think he ever tries to paint ash as being scummy for suggesting it. (compare to me who thinks that perhaps ash used this, as well as other techniques and behaviors in an attempt to create his "normal persona.")
Add to this that it is only when he is asked about it again, by Jorbles, that he even considers the idea of it being scummy and ultimately gives his opinion that he thinks it is a bad idea (might be scummy, might not be) and then asks for other people's opinions.
2-
I think nkirbit's getting at the way Ash was pushing it and pushing for it to happen NOW (as with the claiming Amy Pond), rather than the proposal of the plan itself. I could see that being scummy, in isolation, but I could also see it being Ash excited about a plan.
What do you old timers think?
I responded to this post when UoS asked it and to me it looks like he is legitimately asking a question because in honesty it can go either way. I mention this in my case on ash... that this point, him claiming and pushing his plan in isolation could be scummy, but it could also just be ash.
It is also interesting to note the build up that Jorbles had in coming to a read/vote on UoS. First he first asks:
Here's something for people who've played more recently with them, have the players newer to me (nkirbit, UoS, Voltaire) played as scum before?
Followed by:
Here's something for people who've played more recently with them, have the players newer to me (nkirbit, UoS, Voltaire) played as scum before?
Followed by this:
mail-mi and Jorbles: Top 3 scumreads from you, please. Go.
Ooo, I already have a spreadsheet for this. I didn't want to give stuff away until I'd observed a little bit more as they're not that concrete yet.
1. UmbrageOfSnow: I completely agree with shraeye that he's been putting things out there as being suspicious hoping someone else will find it suspicious. I think this is the sort of kindof guiding the conversation that a first time scum player would do (which is why I was asking if he'd played scum before).
(which I had forgotten was in response to Voltgloss, so this doesn't appear quite as staged as it did before when I thought this was just a reads list that was posted kinda at random)
and then his vote post:
To build on why I find UoS scummy are these two things, which I admit I am sheeping shraeye on, but it's only because I'd already had the same line of thought:
....
Vote: UmbrageOfSnow
so I can see where UoS is coming from in believing this case to be manufactured. I don't really agree with either of the two points that Jorbles makes on UoS. Both are weak--and I don't even mean weak for day1, I just mean all around weak points that to me aren't really indicators of alignment at all.
His build up in coming to a UoS vote was also somewhat scummy. Scum often doesn't want to just have a random read pop up, because then when people go back to reread them they will be suspicious and be like, "what!?! where did that read come from? Suspicious?" They want to avoid that, so to get around it I have often seen scum kinda breadcrumb their potential reads and slowly build them up along the way. Town sometimes does this as well, but it is a more natural progression I think. And before I realized Jorbles reads list was in response to Volt I felt pretty sure that this was on the scummy side... now I am a little less sure that I have all the info.
anyway... long post. I think I would move Jorbles to my want to lynch area, but not to the point that I am willing to unvote ash at this juncture.
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Topic: Mafia XXIX: Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Dinner Party (Game Over! Universe Wins!) (Read 143118 times)