Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[yuma]

ash and yuma:  Don't make me turn this car around.

Ash and I always have to have this sort of argument so that when we are scum partners we can fake it and make everyone think that we are town...

But really, my vote isn't because I am annoyed. It is because I am beginning to think it more likely that he is mafia.

[mail-mi]

Okay, so I like yumas case on VA so he's there, um, I'm on mobile so I'll look at the whole thread later.

P.S. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if we won N1? Mafia hits SK, SK hits mafia, vig hits other mafia.

[mail-mi]

For scum reads two and three I'd have to say fuzzy and shraeye for lurking (even though that's not much at this stage.)

[Jorbles]

mail-mi and Jorbles:  Top 3 scumreads from you, please.  Go.

Ooo, I already have a spreadsheet for this. I didn't want to give stuff away until I'd observed a little bit more as they're not that concrete yet.
1. UmbrageOfSnow: I completely agree with shraeye that he's been putting things out there as being suspicious hoping someone else will find it suspicious. I think this is the sort of kindof guiding the conversation that a first time scum player would do (which is why I was asking if he'd played scum before).
2. liopoil: he's been on, but I can't really remember anything he's said which is unusual. Usually I remember what he says quite clearly because it's quite out there. This noticeable difference from the norm reads scummy to me.
3. I dunno I don't really have anything strong or weak at this point for a third read. I don't love any of the other cases out there currently though.

[Voltaire]

I do not like these ash votes at all. nkirbit, you're voting because ash presented his case over several rapid-fire posts that make it "feel" different, right? Robz, you're voting ash because he claimed. That I guess I can understand. But then nkirbit sheeps Robz's reasons, which are different! And yuma is voting ash because...ash got snippy with him? But later clarifies it's because he thinks ash is mafia. Can you clarify why, yuma?

My yuma!bells are going off right now. Yuma has admitted to goading ash into claiming, and then engages in a theory chat with ash ending with a vote for him after ash got snippy. yuma!bells have yet to be right, but this seems like intentional baiting to me.

I think nkirbit comes out of this looking scummy. I think Robz's vote gave nkirbit cover for a poor vote.

Volt is solidifying as a town read for me, now more than ash. I'm seeing methodical scumhunting and I liked his plan from before, even if we've tabled it.

mail-mi, if you're town, we're going to need you to be something other than Mr. Sheep this game.

shraeye, what are your actual reads? You have nkirbit and UoS (and me?), it seems, but I don't see anything else from you.

lio has yet to contribute anything other than theory talk and his I-stand-by-it scummy reaction to UoS.

Robz, Eevee have too little for me to evaluate.

[Jorbles]

Okay, so I like yumas case on VA so he's there, um, I'm on mobile so I'll look at the whole thread later.

P.S. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if we won N1? Mafia hits SK, SK hits mafia, vig hits other mafia.

In order for us to win N1 we'd have to lynch mafia and then the Vig and the remaining mafia would have to hit the SK while the SK hits the remaining mafia. ... And yes that would be awesome.

[Jorbles]

To build on why I find UoS scummy are these two things, which I admit I am sheeping shraeye on, but it's only because I'd already had the same line of thought:

Why point it out if you don't find it necessarily scummy?  Why tell us it was odd?

Because

I don't remember him pushing for a random lynch. Do you want to build on that UoS?

Well, it's the second time you've taken time to point out that something is unusual, or possibly scummy without publicly coming to that conclusion yourself.  Here is the other post, where you said that ash's claim could be scum behavior or town behavior.

I don't get Ash's weird desire to figure out who we're lynching Day 1 RIGHT NOW!!!1!

But it's probably some weird fish-for-reactions gambit or something, I don't know.

I don't believe his early claim was an accident, I think it was deliberate and planned.  Whether for good or ill is unclear, of course.  Could also just be for annoying Yuma for reactions or encouraging others to just jump in without thinking (again, whether this is town or scum behavior from him is debatable).  But I don't think it was an unthinking claim.

Scum have safe flavorclaims, Town have safe flavors, Amy Pond is gorgeous, um.......  I don't know where I'm going with this.

I think he's feeling townish.

Just pointing things out and seeing if town will decide that they're scummy is not the way to get your mislynch through, dude.

1. Suggesting ash's suggestion of a random vote was more serious than it was to see if it would stick.
2. His fishy post where he can't seem to decide if ash is townie or scummy, but he really seems to want someone to tell him they find ash scummy so he can agree and more comfortably vote for ash.

This is the sort of play I would expect from someone who A) hasn't played scum before, B) likes to be involved in the conversation, and C) thinks that the best way to play scum is to subtly guide the conversation. Anyhow these are still early reads, but I'm going to park my vote on him for a bit and see what happens.

Vote: UmbrageOfSnow

[yuma]

I do not like these ash votes at all. nkirbit, you're voting because ash presented his case over several rapid-fire posts that make it "feel" different, right? Robz, you're voting ash because he claimed. That I guess I can understand. But then nkirbit sheeps Robz's reasons, which are different! And yuma is voting ash because...ash got snippy with him? But later clarifies it's because he thinks ash is mafia. Can you clarify why, yuma?

My yuma!bells are going off right now. Yuma has admitted to goading ash into claiming, and then engages in a theory chat with ash ending with a vote for him after ash got snippy. yuma!bells have yet to be right, but this seems like intentional baiting to me.

I never said I voted ash because he was snippy, but I guess you could see that as the reasons, as yes I didn't provide one. I was posting amist a babyshower--not sure how I got wrangled into that--so wasn't able to provide my whole rationale.

For me right now, I see ash as trying too hard to be his {warning: using words that might sound critical, but they are not intended to be because I have accepted the way ash plays and don't expect nor do I want him to change} abrasive and aggressive and defensive and plan supporting meta that he has created over the course of many games.

I feel that I saw this same thing in Mean Girls when I was partners with him:

There are a number of examples here:

- this is my weakest point, because I still think that if ash is town he claimed as a reaction to me. Again, not my fault, but I could see ash doing it. But I can also see ash doing it to make people think that only town could do something as crazy as claim in the first minutes of the game...
- suggesting the day1 random lynch... again only town would be crazy enough to suggest this...
- his vote on robz I felt was forced and reminded me of his vote on spiritbears early in Mean Girls.
- his post suggesting that I am coming to my partner's (Robz's) aid, is exactly the sort of post that ash put forward when he is scum I think. Tries to force the issue through.
- this post, "I'd love to actually be a D1 lynch, instead of just constantly misread." w/o a self vote. Ash hates it when people bring up that he hasn't self voted in this game, and understandably. But keep in mind, in Mean Girls, he didn't self vote.
- and then his last post saying he won't post every 48 hours. In Mean Girls he did something similar--except there it was even more over the top. He faked being extremely mad at mcmc to the point that he threatened to /out of the game. Afterward (and I knew at the time it was fake because he had more or less planned it) he said it was all an act. Ash uses fake emotion to gain a foot up on town. I think this might be another example.

Those are all of the things I had noticed from ash that makes me think he is more likely scum faking his meta than town being true to his meta.

[Voltaire]

Those are all of the things I had noticed from ash that makes me think he is more likely scum faking his meta than town being true to his meta.

These are reasonable all reasonable points, but I think I do not agree that what you are seeing is as intense as would be required to be scummy...that is, I can see why town!ash claims in the first few minutes of the game, I do not see ash as actually being upset enough to only post every 48 hours (that post just read as obviously sarcastic to me), etc. I see you had reasons for your vote though, real-life wrangling aside.

[yuma]

Those are all of the things I had noticed from ash that makes me think he is more likely scum faking his meta than town being true to his meta.

These are reasonable all reasonable points, but I think I do not agree that what you are seeing is as intense as would be required to be scummy...that is, I can see why town!ash claims in the first few minutes of the game, I do not see ash as actually being upset enough to only post every 48 hours (that post just read as obviously sarcastic to me), etc. I see you had reasons for your vote though, real-life wrangling aside.

sure. I am not arguing that he is definitely mafia. I don't do that. I have learned the hard way of having that sort of a stubborn attitude. But when I see something that I consider scummy, I vote. And then I go from there and see what happens. And I think I get pretty good results from that process, so I am going to continue it.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

1. Suggesting ash's suggestion of a random vote was more serious than it was to see if it would stick.
2. His fishy post where he can't seem to decide if ash is townie or scummy, but he really seems to want someone to tell him they find ash scummy so he can agree and more comfortably vote for ash.

Seriously?
1) I have no way to know how serious it is, I clearly suspected some kind of weird gambit (as someone else explained their guess on a few posts later).  I wasn't trying to see if anything would stick.  I would also note that I only got into that line of conversation because you asked me to expanded on a post.  And that post wasn't a case, it was a trying to guess why people were finding Ash scummy post.

2) I've come down on the side of finding Ash towny and I haven't voted for him, I thought that was clear.

This is the sort of play I would expect from someone who A) hasn't played scum before, B) likes to be involved in the conversation, and C) thinks that the best way to play scum is to subtly guide the conversation. Anyhow these are still early reads, but I'm going to park my vote on him for a bit and see what happens.

A)True
B)True
C)I'm not sure yet

But the fact is, I haven't been guiding the conversation, except for a semi-futile attempt to get away from the theory talk that I actually enjoy but annoys everyone so much, and either way, me having not played scum before and talking a lot would be an equally strong case against me in every game I've played so far.

Shraeye's vote on me seemed silly, given that I've been pushing more on my reads this early than in previous games, but you are not sheeping here, you're building a more extensive case...  which is mostly built on comments I made while clarifying a comment I made guessing why people were finding Ash scummy while I was finding him towny that you asked me to expand on.  I certainly wasn't driving conversation about Ash there.  If anything you were.

This is a stronger read for me than my read on Liopoil, not me being angry.  I'm serious about my
Vote: Jorbles

[Voltaire]

OMGUS votes. OMGUS votes everywhere.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

OMGUS votes. OMGUS votes everywhere.

See, this is exactly what I wanted to avoid.  But the last time I didn't vote for someone I thought said something scummy because they had just voted for me and I didn't want it dismissed as OMGUS, people also got mad at me.

I'm trying to accept that I can't please everyone, or anyone really.  I'm just going to vote and anyone who doesn't pay attention to why can yell OMGUS at me and if Jorbles someday flips scum, I'll vote you too

In all seriousness, I'm mostly agreeing with you again this game, Monsieur Arouet (I am going to keep using that even if I'm the only one).  And I'm disagreeing with Yuma but finding him towny for it.

[Voltaire]

I'm trying to accept that I can't please everyone, or anyone really.  I'm just going to vote and anyone who doesn't pay attention to why can yell OMGUS at me and if Jorbles someday flips scum, I'll vote you too

In all seriousness, I'm mostly agreeing with you again this game, Monsieur Arouet (I am going to keep using that even if I'm the only one).  And I'm disagreeing with Yuma but finding him towny for it.

And honestly I found you townier for it - but it gives me no read on Jorbles's alignment. The biggest thing to realize when you're town and someone votes for you is that it doesn't make them mafia. Town has bad cases too.

[mail-mi]

OMGUS votes. OMGUS votes everywhere.

MIFY

[Voltaire]

mail-mi, if you're town, we're going to need you to be something other than Mr. Sheep this game.

MIFY

[mail-mi]

mail-mi, if you're town, we're going to need you to be something other than Mr. Sheep this game.

MIFY

I'm in the middle of a game of dominion, I'll do some stuff maybe later.

[shraeye]

Yo! Just skim caught up. Didn't pay enough attention to people's statements (which is bad) but I did follow the pros and cons of the claiming thing. I sort of like VG's plan to claim Pr/non-Pr. But, well, we probably don't want to claim at all, because really town actually does end up winning mulitball variants fairly often, and they win because scum shoots each other. Any role revealing reduces the chances of scum shooting each other, which is very bad for town.

Vote: ashersky

I think ash-with-a-plan is usually town ash. However, I don't like the way he just claimed right off the bat here. For one thing, I do think it's anti-town if we massclai, and it's certainly anti-town if just he claims. So. Also, it's something I can see ash doing as scum to sort of get out of the way. Now he's already claimed, and I bet he thought that maybe we would start to just take the claim at face value and think of him as town. So, I'm voting him for now.

This is a better written version of my feelings about Ash.  I just am uneasy about Ash here.. his plans usually feel towny to me, and this one just doesn't.

But ash's early claim has nothing to do with the original reason you typed up.  So it's not a case of Robz writing your feelings better, it's a case of Robz having entirely different reasons, and you latching onto them.

[shraeye]

Okay, so I like yumas case on VA so he's there, um, I'm on mobile so I'll look at the whole thread later.

P.S. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if we won N1? Mafia hits SK, SK hits mafia, vig hits other mafia.

What is VA? What case does yuma have on it?

[Voltaire]

I'm in the middle of a game of dominion, I'll do some stuff maybe later.

Yet you're clearly following the thread. vote: mail-mi

[Voltaire]

But ash's early claim has nothing to do with the original reason you typed up.  So it's not a case of Robz writing your feelings better, it's a case of Robz having entirely different reasons, and you latching onto them.

This.

[mail-mi]

I'm in the middle of a game of dominion, I'll do some stuff maybe later.

Yet you're clearly following the thread. vote: mail-mi

I'm only checking in to read the new posts during opponent's turns. I'm not gonna reread in the middle of my game.

[shraeye]

Having read up to #255, yuma v. Voltaire feels more like town v. town than anything else.  nkirbit's response is, again, reasonable.  But I don't agree with the reasons for his vote on ash.  I agree with UoS's #255 that ash is playing like ash tends to play, whether town or scum.  His pushing massclaim as a plan is a nulltell. 

To answer shraeye's question:  I was somehwat surprised by mail-mi's blatant sheeping and sort of, ah, "flippant" tone in the game?  I guess that's the best word?  Not having played a game with him before I didn't know whether this was a departure from his usual practice.  Apparently it's not.

I was wondering if you were talking about the sheeping or something else.  I didn't notice the flippant part early, but on a reread, I see what you mean.  That's a nulltell for me, as my flippant-ness fluctuates from day to day.  Some days I just wake up with my sassypants on.  I think his comfortableness with doing that makes him slightly more town to me.

[Voltaire]

shraeye, what are your actual reads? You have nkirbit and UoS (and me?), it seems, but I don't see anything else from you.

[shraeye]

Here's something for people who've played more recently with them, have the players newer to me (nkirbit, UoS, Voltaire) played as scum before?

Townvibes from Jorbles for burying the question he really wanted the answer to in a series of similar questions.

Ooo, I already have a spreadsheet for this. I didn't want to give stuff away until I'd observed a little bit more as they're not that concrete yet.
1. UmbrageOfSnow: I completely agree with shraeye that he's been putting things out there as being suspicious hoping someone else will find it suspicious. I think this is the sort of kindof guiding the conversation that a first time scum player would do (which is why I was asking if he'd played scum before).