The reason that I haven't been stridently trying to bring people around to my view is that I'm not very confident in them. I think they are more likely to be. But say, by default, a person has a 25% chance to be scum (2 scum in 8, not including me.. if there are 2 scum. The exact percentage doesn't matter). My odds right now are at like 29/28/27/26/25/24/23/22 or some absurdly small range like that. They are very small. I don't really trust myself as a scum hunter at this point. I'm still gathering information.
Keep in mind that I'll be around at the deadline, and will have more information then. You could say that I could be voting someone to put pressure on them and create reactions, and perhaps you would be correct. But I haven't, because I'm worried about mislynching.
I don't see why I should be expected to argue heavily for cases that I'm just not that sure of.
This is exactly what I mean about being reactive, rather than proactive. Town members WANT to find scum and lynch them. In order to win, we need to hunt down scum, and convince the majority of the players that their read is the correct one. Townies should trust themselves more than anyone else.
The bolded sentence doesn't make sense to me. Eevee, EFHW, and Xeiron, 3 people who Nkirbit said were slightly scum to him, were not anywhere near a lynch.
Scum are more likely to worry about a mislynch than town. Scum doesn't want to be on the wrong mislynch, as it's potentially incriminating. Town should be more concerned with lynching correctly, rather than avoiding mislynches.
You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!
I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
By doing what? Stating why I had the views I had on those players? I did that. Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?
No, I’d prefer you to build a case. Stating a scum read on someone is not building a case. You’re letting others form their own conclusions, which you then hope that they’ll be accountable for. It’s very easy to build a case, have people bandwagon that case, and then state “Yeah I thought it was scummy, but I wasn’t in favor of that lynch!” Once again, I think this is cautious play by scum afraid of being caught driving a bandwagon on a town member.
This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion. I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself. I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read. I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.
I just reread you. Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was. And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness. I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well. It's day one! It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.
The lack of proactiveness is in light of your other posts, many of which have opinions, but opinions that you're afraid to throw your weight behind. Yes, I haven't been that much more proactive than you, but I was willing to throw a vote on Lio for something I saw scummy, as was Raerae (which I find her towny for). You found him scummy, but didn't vote, and then changed your opinion (If you're town, it's truly cause you think it's a scum-driven wagon, but I believe it's a scum trying to gain town cred).
I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me: When I made those two posts in a row. I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation. I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.
So basically, what I think happened here was:
1: EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made. (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2: scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves. He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3: He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible. You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4: He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier. He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.
I don't think what EFHW quoted was particularly scummy -- clarifying yourself is fine! That post is the ONLY time someone had suspected you. For reference, I've included a list of posts that reference a view/vote on you:
Views regarding Nkirbit:
Xeiron RVS vote #76
Eevee says "kudos to Nkirbit for moving us forward #116
Xeiron RVS'd Nkirbit at random #117
Sudgy RVS (I think?) vote of Nkirbit #127
Lio - Nkirbit is not slightly slighty slgithy anything #140
#204 Lio - once again Nkirbit null
#205 Lio leans town because of high content
#210 EFHW's suspicion
#239 TA mixed on Nkirbit
#245 Xeiron townread on Nkirbit
#246 Mail-mi townread on Nkirbit
#274 Lio townread on Nkirbit
#282 Mail-mi townread on Nkirbit again
I'm not reading into Xeiron's vote, and I think Sudgy's was RVS, as well. If you are saying that between #210, where EFHW's suspicion was, and between my case, we had three different players pronounce you as a town read. If you think I'm scum going for an easy mislynch, do you really think I'd pick you? I think you are scum, which is why I brought up the case.
In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague. You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!). I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.
The case wasn't on a lack of contribution -- it was a lack of contribution to scumhunting in light of all of your other posts. Making reads, but not throwing your weight behind them, is something that I find scummy in you.
Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else? As you said yourself: I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading). Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?
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Your list of reads, and your vote changing on Liopoil, alerted me. I had originally thought that you WERE proactive, as you were getting your views out there. But as time moved on and you didn't place your vote anywhere, even on one of your scum reads, or attempt to build a case at all, I got curious.
I am mixed on Nkirbit. While he's definitely active and trying to move the game further, he would definitely become more active rather than less active as scum. He's playing very, very proactively at parts.
I don't know why you think I would become more active as scum. Was this just a guess? And how do you feel about this statement now that I've been less proactive, by whatever inconsistent definition you decided to use.
It's not a guess -- I know you pretty well! I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.
You are very active, but less proactive. As I stated above, I was fooled at first, but when I went back and re-read you, my view changed.
Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it. I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would. It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.
My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?
I think the first post was incomplete. I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you. I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more. I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.
This seems like you're a little too over-concerned with someone calling you out for doing exactly that.
So you acknowledged that you saw this post, and found it scummy, yet you didn't bring it up in your case against me. Why not? Did you forget it? I find it hard to believe, as you said you just re-read, and you had trouble believing that Lio could miss several posts. If you're town!TA hunting scum, don't you want to dump all the evidence you have into your case? Why did you leave this out?
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Because it's not the main reason I find you scummy. Yes, I forgot about it, as it wasn't my main point. I want a short, to-the-point case, that drives the main points home (which I failed at in this post, heh).
I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):
I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?
Why was this a post and not a PM? Did you want this to be public information so that someone else would beat you to making a case against me? I guess no one took your bait, so you had to do it yourself.
I just had a question, and I asked it in game. I didn't think how I asked it was important (PM vs. Post), and I still don't think that. I wouldn't bait, or expect, someone to go read another game based on this -- this was for my benefit, not for anyone else's.
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Topic: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!) (Read 167689 times)