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[nkirbit]

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

[liopoil]

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...

lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

[ashersky]

Then if thou hast
A heart of wreak in thee, that wilt revenge
Thine own particular wrongs and stop those maims
Of shame seen through thy country, speed
thee straight,
And make my misery serve thy turn: so use it
That my revengeful services may prove
As benefits to thee, for I will fight
Against my canker'd country with the spleen
Of all the under fiends.


Vote Count Act I.VI:

nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
liopoil (1): Eevee
mail-mi (1): EFHW
sudgy (1): liopoil

Not Voting (4): Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.  3 days have passed.

[EFHW]

I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

I would also point out that liopoil has neglected to answer several of raerae's questions:

A history of EFHW and RVS:

What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!

I don't think this is necessarily true.

Why?

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:
slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.
nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why?

[liopoil]

thanks EFHW, I missed those.

A history of EFHW and RVS:

What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?

Nothing. Just pointing it out.

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!

I don't think this is necessarily true.

Why?

Because being RMM it would be very easy to balance such a situation, as I've now said.

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:
slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.
nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why?

It's based off hardly anything, as I said. All are just slight vibes on them.

[Twistedarcher]

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...

lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

I disagree with this.

Role speculation is bad bad bad. Not wanting to talk about roles is fine! I don't want to talk about roles, and I don't get why we haven't moved on.

Saying "we expect X,Y,Z" makes scum know that they can fakeclaim "X,Y,Z" and have town believe them more easily!

Please guys, let's stop talking about roles.

Talking about roles is better for scum than for town, I think.

[EFHW]

Ok, what do you want to talk about?

[Twistedarcher]

Liopoil has been posting about setup speculation, but not much else, other than the soft deadline. He missed raerae's questions, and mine as well (about why nkirbit is a null read when he's been posting). Not much to go off of, but Vote: Liopoil

[nkirbit]

I'm going to do a quick re-read of everyone!  And because I don't feel like typing "slight" 8 times, all of my reads are obviously
slight, since it's still early day one!

Rae-Rae:

The one thing I noticed here was that Rae-Rae was insistent that we not talk about flavor.  Looking back now, I agree with the points that she and TA have made about not claiming, but she was vocal about it.  For example, this post:

We are getting dangerously close to claiming things here, folks.  Let's refrain, shall we?

It was very clear what her point of view was concerning discussion about flavor.  Given this, though, this question feels a little out of place:

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!

I don't think this is necessarily true.

Why?

Asking someone to elaborate their views on a flavor question?  I guess this isn't directly flavor related, but it's certainly tangentially related enough that it made me raise an eyebrow.

Overall though, she is asking good questions that are driving the conversation forward.  So a townread from me.

TwistedArcher:

Like Raerae, he states that he thinks role speculation is bad.  He asks lio why someone I was a nullread, which is a fair enough question, but an easy one to ask.  He discussed mail-mi's behaviors in past game, and asked about raerae's behavior.  He has yet to state an opinion about another player, scum or town, other than saying mail-mi was a null read [NOTE:  His vote for Lio came after this post started.. so there you go].  A null-read, but for an active player, I'd like to see more opinions.

Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.

EFHW:

The first thing is her response to Xeiron's RVS vote on me, which I felt was over the top.  Not necessarily scummy, but odd enough that I want to ask why she reacted the way she did.  And then she unvotes when Xeiron explains that it was just RVS?  It was obviously RVS, you knew that from the start!  I guess here:

So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X. 

It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.

RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

EFHW states that she didn't think it was RVS.  But I'm just not buying that she saw it as anything other than RVS.  The entire voting for xeiron and unvoting seemed very artificial to me.  Either you had a legitimate (small) amount of outrage against Xeiron's vote, which was entirely cleared up by the explanation that it was, in fact, RVS (duh!), or you staged a reaction.  It just felt much more like the second than the first.

Again, votes for lio than immediately unvotes.  Just feels very odd.  Then votes mail-mi, where her vote is parked, then defends him a little.  Which is understandable, as her vote was mainly due to his inactivity.

Overall a scum read.  Just feels off and artificial.

More to come!

[raerae]

I was going to vote mail-mi for avoiding my question until lio's insane "missed those" comments.  Seriously?  You missed me spamming the thread?  Have you only been reading your partners or what?

Vote: liopoil

[Twistedarcher]

Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.

He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him

[Twistedarcher]

Btw, L-2 on Lio...dang these wagons get up there quickly in a 9 player game.

[nkirbit]

Eevee:  He's been very busy, so there's not much.  Comes back and defends EFHW, with this:

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.

Not sure what to make of this, honestly.  All my initial comment about EHFW stated was that it was "a little weird", not anything about EHFW being scummy for this.  Eevee defended EHFW from an accusation that I hadn't even made.  I never said anything about "A little weird" being mafia-y, and I don't know why Eevee felt the need to defend EHFW here.

Votes Liopoil for simply being "a bit off" with no further explanation.  Okay, I guess, but I'd like to hear the reason for why he feels a bit off!  And nothing since then.  He's been busy, I know, but it's weird to come back to a game you've been out of, make a vote for "someone being weird", then hop off again.  Scumread for me.

Sudgy:

Immediately votes EFHW after I make my initial comment about her.  Thinking about it, I wonder why Eevee's question is pointed at me, and not Sudgy.. sudgy was the one to vote for EFHW!

Anyway, this is a very sheepy vote, but I just hammered Sudgy incorrectly in part for being sheepy, so I'm not going to put any weight on this vote.

He then votes for me, but it was pretty much RVS.  Then doesn't have a lot of content.

I'm going to go with a town-read here.  I'd like to see more content, especially original content, but I just mis-lynched Sudgy for the same reason, and he was town the last time he acted like this.

Xeiron:
Wow, there's remarkably little content here.  Like, less than both Eevee and Mail-mi, which is saying something.  His only meaningful contribution was an RVS vote on me, and calling that meaningful was a stretch.  Scumread for an extreme lack of meaningful activity.

Liopoil:

Bring's up a history of EFHW, but doesn't comment on it at all.  Doesn't respond to Eevee's vote at all, but this is expected... Eevee hasn't really given him anything to respond to.  He posts a bunch of reads, which I like, but doesn't give any reasons for any of them, which I don't like.   Raerae asks him three questions, which he ignores.  In particular, raerae asks this:

A history of EFHW and RVS:

vote: nkirbit

What's this about?

So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X. 

Unvote.  A vote without explanation is fishy.  Now it has been explained.

RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.

My vote was not serious, and indeed, the two sentences don't make sense one after the other at all.

What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?

Which I think is a fantastic question and would like to hear from Lio about. 

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...

lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

Lack of anything to talk about?  How about the multiple questions that raerae asked you?

You did answer these later, but I wasn't very satisfied with your responses.  Your reads were hardly based off anything?  That's dumb!  They were obviously based off of something, and raerae and the others would like to know what.

Scumread, for sure.

In summary:

Scumread:  Liopoil, Xeiron, Eevee, EHFW
Neutral:  Mail-Mi, TA
Town: Raerae, Sudgy

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.

[raerae]

Eevee is v/la for the weekend and I would super love for him to explain his vote on lio.

Can we agree to avoid killing anybody or putting them at L-1 until we're all around?

[nkirbit]

Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.

He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him

What do you think about mail-mi here?  Do you think this is scum!mail-mi? 

[nkirbit]

Eevee is v/la for the weekend and I would super love for him to explain his vote on lio.

Can we agree to avoid killing anybody or putting them at L-1 until we're all around?

Yes.  Especially in RMM... there very well could be a hammerer, correct?  I think we should be careful about putting people to L-1 unless we are comfortable with a lynch.

[Twistedarcher]

Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.

He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him

What do you think about mail-mi here?  Do you think this is scum!mail-mi?

It's hard to say so early. I know that's not a satisfying answer, but I haven't seen anything that would want to make me lynch him D1 yet.

[ashersky]

Vote Count Act I.VII:

nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
liopoil (3): Eevee, Twistedarcher, raerae
mail-mi (1): EFHW
sudgy (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, nkirbit

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.

[EFHW]

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.

Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?

[nkirbit]

EFHW:

The first thing is her response to Xeiron's RVS vote on me, which I felt was over the top.  Not necessarily scummy, but odd enough that I want to ask why she reacted the way she did.  And then she unvotes when Xeiron explains that it was just RVS?  It was obviously RVS, you knew that from the start!  I guess here:

So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X. 

It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.

RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

EFHW states that she didn't think it was RVS.  But I'm just not buying that she saw it as anything other than RVS.  The entire voting for xeiron and unvoting seemed very artificial to me.  Either you had a legitimate (small) amount of outrage against Xeiron's vote, which was entirely cleared up by the explanation that it was, in fact, RVS (duh!), or you staged a reaction.  It just felt much more like the second than the first.

Again, votes for lio than immediately unvotes.  Just feels very odd.  Then votes mail-mi, where her vote is parked, then defends him a little.  Which is understandable, as her vote was mainly due to his inactivity.

Overall a scum read.  Just feels off and artificial.

[EFHW]

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.

Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?

nvm, I didn't realize you had two long posts.  All my votes with the exception of mail-mi and xeiron have been pure RVS. 

Xeiron was 75% RVS - voting without explanation is not helpful, but not crazy scummy, either.  So I drew attention to it, but didn't pursue it.  You know, trying to get discussion going, so in that sense, yeah, it was staged. 

My vote on mail-mi is not RVS.  He has been posting purely fluff.  One post was just a repost of an earlier one of his own, with no comment!

PPE: I see I didn't make it in time to spare you the quoting.  Oh well.

[EFHW]

Where did I defend mail-mi?

[nkirbit]

Okay, you actually have a point there.  What I was thinking about was my post:

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

and your response:

I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

But looking at this again, you're right:  You weren't defending him, in fact, all you said was that you don't think he forgot, which I'm not going to draw any inferences from.  I misread this when I was re-reading, my mistake.

That being said:  Now that I'm clear that you think Mail-mi didn't simply forget to answer the question, what do you make of him not answering it?

[Twistedarcher]

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.

Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?

nvm, I didn't realize you had two long posts.  All my votes with the exception of mail-mi and xeiron have been pure RVS. 

Xeiron was 75% RVS - voting without explanation is not helpful, but not crazy scummy, either.  So I drew attention to it, but didn't pursue it.  You know, trying to get discussion going, so in that sense, yeah, it was staged. 

My vote on mail-mi is not RVS.  He has been posting purely fluff.  One post was just a repost of an earlier one of his own, with no comment!

PPE: I see I didn't make it in time to spare you the quoting.  Oh well.

The Xeiron vote didn't seem RVS to me -- you had a good reason to do it! Obviously it's not the most scummy thing he did, but your vote was for a legitimate reason, and therefore not random at all, in my eyes.

[sudgy]

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?