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[Sakon and Ukon]

i feel like, had we just had the initial claim/counterclaim, i'd be likely to vote doduo. but durden/dent keep posting things like

doduo's actions had nothing to do with painting dent as mafia; dent's counterclaim did that

But when scumdoduo claimed cop, he knew he was going to be counterclaimed.  Doduo has also claimed that we were his investigation (even though we were his second scumread) because he also "knew" Dent was mafia already.

but, tyler

if he's mafia, he didn't "know" you weren't the cop

[Sakon and Ukon]

is doduo voltgloss?

doduo is voltgloss.

ok.

dammit.

I'm still curious why us being voltgloss would be so bad? Doduo, Durden, and Dent all headclaimed a page or two ago. And then a couple people have accidentally posted from their regular accounts.

it would be bad because you're playing very similarly to sk-volt at the end of MIX

[Doduo]

is doduo voltgloss?

doduo is voltgloss.

ok.

dammit.

I'm still curious why us being voltgloss would be so bad? Doduo, Durden, and Dent all headclaimed a page or two ago. And then a couple people have accidentally posted from their regular accounts.

it would be bad because you're playing very similarly to sk-volt at the end of MIX

Huh, I didn't follow most of that game very closely either.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

is doduo voltgloss?

doduo is voltgloss.

ok.

dammit.

I'm still curious why us being voltgloss would be so bad? Doduo, Durden, and Dent all headclaimed a page or two ago. And then a couple people have accidentally posted from their regular accounts.

it would be bad because you're playing very similarly to sk-volt at the end of MIX

Dr. Jekyll has Volt, if I'm not mistaken.

[Harvey Dent]

Fourth:

Dsell/Insomniac are Doduo. Certainly possible for them to be behind an elaborate no-kill, fake-claim plot. Ashersky/O are Dent. Given Asherky's oversight (intentional or not) above, I have a hard time seeing HIM being behind such an immediate counterclaim. O could handle it and the Gambit and WIFOM after, but it's not Ashersky's style. In the respect, I've got to believe that O was online, on Dent's account, AND active, AND cooked it all up, all in ~10 minute window.  That's not impossible, but O is so rarely around (forums in general. He's busy irl, and he lurks his games because of that) that it's a stretch to think all that was true.

Ashersky counterclaimed. I think I would have done it in the same timely manner.

[Harvey Dent]

Wow. Absolutely insane that there was no night kill, that's an incredible lucky break that I don't quite understand.

But...we have good news! I am the cop. Tyler Durden is mafia.

I would tend to suspect Dent the most after that, but nothing like a modconfirmation.

Vote: Tyler Durden

O's arguments cont.


If Duduo was the real cop, the clearly best strategy here is to announce that you're the cop, WAIT FOR COUNTERCLAIMS, then announce your investigation. Why? Because it requires scum to choose whether to counterclaim based on incomplete information: they might not counterclaim hoping you investigated town, and then you reveal your scum-result as confirmed cop and there's no WIFOM.


But as Ashersky proves illogical play is not scum play (WE ARE AT MYLO ASHERSKY. THATS ONE MISSLYNCH TO LOSE. YOUR CONSPIRACIES MAKE NO SENSE.)


Awkward moment where I almost type ONE MISSLYNCH TO WIN... that would have been rather awful, though it would have proven to you guys that scumslips mean little.

Why Durden can still be scum:

Duduo fakes guilty result on townie: Townie knows he is fakeclaiming cop. When duduo is counterclaimed that leaves his scum partner whose going to go for the counterclaimant but forces a townie to go against him.

Duduo fakes guilty result on scum: scum can still switch over to hammer the counterclaimant at the end, but now there's no townies that are assured to vote Duduo.

[Doduo]

Well I've never been cop before. In this thread, scum lectures the cop on how best to claim cop. AT THE TIME it seemed like the best approach was to just come out with it. Maybe if I'd thought of doing it another way, I would have. That way of doing it seems vaguely unbelievable, but I'm not sure. (If scum does counterclaim in that situation, I may be accused of reporting my result based on who they claimed to have reported.) At this point, at mylo, it's imperative that the town doesn't lynch me so I just have wanted to be as forthright and transparent about everything as possible. I cannot prove my towniness any other way.

It's amusing that O is coming out to fight now after Ashersky bungled the attempts to make me look like scum.

[Harvey Dent]

Well I've never been cop before. In this thread, scum lectures the cop on how best to claim cop. AT THE TIME it seemed like the best approach was to just come out with it. Maybe if I'd thought of doing it another way, I would have. That way of doing it seems vaguely unbelievable, but I'm not sure. (If scum does counterclaim in that situation, I may be accused of reporting my result based on who they claimed to have reported.) At this point, at mylo, it's imperative that the town doesn't lynch me so I just have wanted to be as forthright and transparent about everything as possible. I cannot prove my towniness any other way.

It's amusing that O is coming out to fight now after Ashersky bungled the attempts to make me look like scum.

I don't like being miss-lynched. It's a common theme throughout the games.

[Doduo]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

[Harvey Dent]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

I did answer, insofar as to say it was definitely not quickhammer for the win.  If there was a miscalculation there (no idea how that would happen), explain the NK?  I still thought I had won so I didn't need to?  Insane.

Smeagol was scummy, the wagon say for awhile, and wagons that get going but never seem to finish do turn out to be scumwagons often enough.  Smeagol wasn't townish, enough folks had a scumread, the flip was informative, AND it got this game moving to a place where now we (the town) can win this.

"Thought he quickhammered for the win" is a ridiculous argument.


On a side note, can someone tell me what the Y and the O in MYLO stand for?  I get "mislynch" for M and "lose" for L.

[Doduo]

I'm not suggesting that you thought you had won and were celebrating in the QT instead of sending a kill order or something. But you've demonstrated that you don't have a strong concept of how many players are in the game/at what point teams win or lose. If you did think you were quickhammering for the win, obviously you would have figured out your mistake pretty quickly and at the latest when Grujah gave the flip.

[Tyler Durden]

Jekyll is seeing what I did last night, but choose not to post because I didn't want to lead without personal contributions from the innocent.

First:

Dent countered less than 10 minutes after Durden was fingered. This is so unnatural a play that my initial reaction is that Dent is telling the truth. He didn't even give Durden the time to fake it, or step up, etc. He simply stepped forward and counter-claimed.

I think this is eager scum (I'm assuming Ashersky). They probably had talked about whether to counterclaim in their QT and maybe they had decided that if the cop investigated town, they would not counterclaim and they'd let things play out, but if the cop investigated one of them, they'd counterclaim. I don't know if Durden would have counterclaimed if Dent hadn't, but both ways have their advantages for scum. This way reveals both scum (to me only) but pits both of their claims against mine. If Durden had counterclaimed, Dent would have had to choose between bussing his partner and lynching the cop (and I expect would have gone for me, but he would have had to be more subtle about it). They chose the all-or-nothing gambit. If we lynch Dent (or probably Durden), scum loses, but if they get town to mislynch me, scum wins.

I think that rookie scum Ashersky was excited to try something they'd talked about doing in their scum QT.

This reads to me more like doduo is the one that has spent a long time in quick topic fleshing this argument out.  If Doduo is actually the real cop, it strikes me as very odd if he had spent the night thinking through all of the ways and reasons for scum to counterclaim cop

[Doduo]

Jekyll is seeing what I did last night, but choose not to post because I didn't want to lead without personal contributions from the innocent.

First:

Dent countered less than 10 minutes after Durden was fingered. This is so unnatural a play that my initial reaction is that Dent is telling the truth. He didn't even give Durden the time to fake it, or step up, etc. He simply stepped forward and counter-claimed.

I think this is eager scum (I'm assuming Ashersky). They probably had talked about whether to counterclaim in their QT and maybe they had decided that if the cop investigated town, they would not counterclaim and they'd let things play out, but if the cop investigated one of them, they'd counterclaim. I don't know if Durden would have counterclaimed if Dent hadn't, but both ways have their advantages for scum. This way reveals both scum (to me only) but pits both of their claims against mine. If Durden had counterclaimed, Dent would have had to choose between bussing his partner and lynching the cop (and I expect would have gone for me, but he would have had to be more subtle about it). They chose the all-or-nothing gambit. If we lynch Dent (or probably Durden), scum loses, but if they get town to mislynch me, scum wins.

I think that rookie scum Ashersky was excited to try something they'd talked about doing in their scum QT.

This reads to me more like doduo is the one that has spent a long time in quick topic fleshing this argument out.  If Doduo is actually the real cop, it strikes me as very odd if he had spent the night thinking through all of the ways and reasons for scum to counterclaim cop

This doesn't take a whooole lot of thinking. There are only so many options. One of you virtually has to counterclaim if I investigated one of you, but if I investigated town it would be reasonable to hold off and let things play out. There's no way to know now, but it would make sense that you two would try to feel out cop conversation without actually claiming if that were the case.

[Sakon and Ukon]

Sakon has strongly read Dent to be scum the entire game. While this cop claim business confuses the issue I'd like to hear Dent's explanation of appearing scumball all game.

[Harvey Dent]

Sakon has strongly read Dent to be scum the entire game. While this cop claim business confuses the issue I'd like to hear Dent's explanation of appearing scumball all game.

That's just me, it seems.  See: every other game ever.  I'm not mafia.

[Dr Jekyll]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

I did answer, insofar as to say it was definitely not quickhammer for the win.  If there was a miscalculation there (no idea how that would happen), explain the NK?  I still thought I had won so I didn't need to?  Insane.

Smeagol was scummy, the wagon say for awhile, and wagons that get going but never seem to finish do turn out to be scumwagons often enough.  Smeagol wasn't townish, enough folks had a scumread, the flip was informative, AND it got this game moving to a place where now we (the town) can win this.

"Thought he quickhammered for the win" is a ridiculous argument.

This answer is missing something very important.

The reason why the quickhammer on Smeagol was problematic was that it was delivered before Smeagol had a chance to claim.

Dent claims he's the Cop.  That means he has a ready-made explanation for why he wasn't worried about quickhammering:  "I, being the only other town power role, knew with absolute certainty that Smeagol was either a VT or scum."

That's an argument that would occur only to the Cop, of course.

Dent hasn't made that argument.

This leads me to conclude that Dent is, more likely than not, not the Cop.

What is the votecount?

[Doduo]

What is the votecount?

I believe:

Doduo - 2 - Harvey Dent, Tyler Durden
Harvey Dent - 1 - Doduo

Not voting - Everyone else.

[Harvey Dent]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

I did answer, insofar as to say it was definitely not quickhammer for the win.  If there was a miscalculation there (no idea how that would happen), explain the NK?  I still thought I had won so I didn't need to?  Insane.

Smeagol was scummy, the wagon say for awhile, and wagons that get going but never seem to finish do turn out to be scumwagons often enough.  Smeagol wasn't townish, enough folks had a scumread, the flip was informative, AND it got this game moving to a place where now we (the town) can win this.

"Thought he quickhammered for the win" is a ridiculous argument.

This answer is missing something very important.

The reason why the quickhammer on Smeagol was problematic was that it was delivered before Smeagol had a chance to claim.

Dent claims he's the Cop.  That means he has a ready-made explanation for why he wasn't worried about quickhammering:  "I, being the only other town power role, knew with absolute certainty that Smeagol was either a VT or scum."

That's an argument that would occur only to the Cop, of course.

Dent hasn't made that argument.

This leads me to conclude that Dent is, more likely than not, not the Cop.

What is the votecount?

Your basically saying "eh, he's at worst a VT" is a good reason for hammering.  I disagree.  Scum points for you.

[Dr Jekyll]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

I did answer, insofar as to say it was definitely not quickhammer for the win.  If there was a miscalculation there (no idea how that would happen), explain the NK?  I still thought I had won so I didn't need to?  Insane.

Smeagol was scummy, the wagon say for awhile, and wagons that get going but never seem to finish do turn out to be scumwagons often enough.  Smeagol wasn't townish, enough folks had a scumread, the flip was informative, AND it got this game moving to a place where now we (the town) can win this.

"Thought he quickhammered for the win" is a ridiculous argument.

This answer is missing something very important.

The reason why the quickhammer on Smeagol was problematic was that it was delivered before Smeagol had a chance to claim.

Dent claims he's the Cop.  That means he has a ready-made explanation for why he wasn't worried about quickhammering:  "I, being the only other town power role, knew with absolute certainty that Smeagol was either a VT or scum."

That's an argument that would occur only to the Cop, of course.

Dent hasn't made that argument.

This leads me to conclude that Dent is, more likely than not, not the Cop.

What is the votecount?

Your basically saying "eh, he's at worst a VT" is a good reason for hammering.  I disagree.  Scum points for you.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  How about you quote me where I supposedly say that, as opposed to making up your own version of what I'm saying.

You have completely ignored the argument.  Why did you ignore it?  I think I know:  Because you have no answer to it.

My doubts are gone. 

Vote: Harvey Dent

[Harvey Dent]

AsherDent still hasn't answered (I don't believe) for why he quickhammered Smeagol yesterday. I honestly think it was a miscalculation and Asher thought he was quickhammering for the win.

I did answer, insofar as to say it was definitely not quickhammer for the win.  If there was a miscalculation there (no idea how that would happen), explain the NK?  I still thought I had won so I didn't need to?  Insane.

Smeagol was scummy, the wagon say for awhile, and wagons that get going but never seem to finish do turn out to be scumwagons often enough.  Smeagol wasn't townish, enough folks had a scumread, the flip was informative, AND it got this game moving to a place where now we (the town) can win this.

"Thought he quickhammered for the win" is a ridiculous argument.

This answer is missing something very important.

The reason why the quickhammer on Smeagol was problematic was that it was delivered before Smeagol had a chance to claim.

Dent claims he's the Cop.  That means he has a ready-made explanation for why he wasn't worried about quickhammering:  "I, being the only other town power role, knew with absolute certainty that Smeagol was either a VT or scum."

That's an argument that would occur only to the Cop, of course.

Dent hasn't made that argument.

This leads me to conclude that Dent is, more likely than not, not the Cop.

What is the votecount?

Your basically saying "eh, he's at worst a VT" is a good reason for hammering.  I disagree.  Scum points for you.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  How about you quote me where I supposedly say that, as opposed to making up your own version of what I'm saying.

You have completely ignored the argument.  Why did you ignore it?  I think I know:  Because you have no answer to it.

My doubts are gone. 

Vote: Harvey Dent

Enjoy being wrong.  I'll refer back to my argument in RMM3--I should try to lynch myself on D1 of every game, because if town CAN lose by lynching me, town will.

Amazing.

[Harvey Dent]

Enjoy being wrong.  I'll refer back to my argument in RMM3--I should try to lynch myself on D1 of every game, because if town CAN lose by lynching me, town will.

Amazing.

Unless you're Doduo's partner.  Then enjoy the win.

[Sakon and Ukon]

How many votes to lynch?

[Tyler Durden]

How many votes to lynch?

There are 6 alive, so 4.  Currently I believe the votes are:

Doduo (2): Durden, Dent
Dent (2): Doduo, Jekyll

Not Voting: SU, Zaphod

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Durden is individually the scummiest person here. Not a single one of his arguments D3 have been completely accurate. But I don't see lynching him as the best play right now.

If we lynch Dent and he's scum, then Durden is 100% of the time as well.

If we lynch Doduo and he's scum, then Durden is only scum ~75% of the time.

If we lynch Durden and he's scum, then we still have to choose between Dent/Doduo tomorrow.

Regarding Dent/Doduo - Dent's play was much townier in my eyes out of the gate, but his posts since then have been terribly scummy. Doduo's play out of the gates read like opportunistic, eager scum - but he's actually sounded a lot more confident in what his claimed role is than Dent since then.

I could honestly go either way. S&U, what do you think?

[Sakon and Ukon]

Sakon suspects Dent the most. The progression of wagon formatipn appears carefully planned and the WIFOM runs deep. That Dent considers Zaphod IC makes me question every angle and unsure throughout.
Sakon feels like there is a 50/50 tossup if Zaphod is town otherwise this is an ingenius trap. Sakon intends to reread Zaphod and consult with Ukon before taking a position.