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Author Topic: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia  (Read 99444 times)

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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2021, 05:05:18 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2021, 05:06:48 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?

I mean, it was real, but it was worded in a way where I didn't actually ask for public read lists.

Basically, there was enough content in the thread for people to be able to read everyone (except you), and I wanted to say that I scumread Glooble (and vote them).
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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2021, 05:08:24 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

This is a better justification for Galz' read than previous.
Still think skum WCD would just ignore me here, but I understand better what Galz was getting at.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2021, 05:08:53 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?

I mean, it was real, but it was worded in a way where I didn't actually ask for public read lists.

Basically, there was enough content in the thread for people to be able to read everyone (except you), and I wanted to say that I scumread Glooble (and vote them).

cool. was a clarification on the public part.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #204 on: August 24, 2021, 05:11:35 pm »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

I'll join the faust wagon, I guess. That's a thing, right?

vote: faust

This doesn't make sense Gloobs. There is an IC. That removes a player from play for investigation roles to have to consider, thus making it more likely to get a result. Also, having the IC publically announced on Day 1 GTDs that either all investigation roles get at least 1 night of info out, or if skum is lucky, we get an IC on day 2 minimum.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #205 on: August 24, 2021, 06:01:35 pm »

(Sorry, no quotes at the moment)...

Iguana, as you stated, you don't know my meta and I don't know yours either. So I guess it makes sense to sheep someone you do know and hope for a newer player who has a short history of usually getting exiled early.  /sarcasm. You say you want more out of me? How about an OMGUS
Vote: Iguana
Better?

And to the others posting about me... thanks for making me feel included! I don't think it really matters how you look at my game history here, whether town games, all games, whatever... I definitely have a pretty good track record of getting killed early. 

The only reason I lasted until endgame in Dwarf mafia was because the game was fully stacked in our favour one Swowl decided to fully trust Didds and me in our QT (and we were both scum).
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #206 on: August 24, 2021, 06:10:20 pm »

Vote Count 1.2.MiX

iguanaiguana (2): pubby, mathdude
2.71828.... (2): Awaclus, EFHW
mathdude (2): faust, iguanaiguana
EFHW (1): 2.71828....
Swowl (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): Galzria
Glooble (1): MiX
faust (1): Glooble

Not voting (2): Swowl, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time (that is in 49 hours).
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2021, 06:13:46 pm »

If at any point in time you feel like you have nothing to do in this game and you're itching to be useful, take a look at Glooble, and talk about your read on him. I think that would be helpful.

That includes Glooble. Lol.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2021, 07:32:44 pm »

Geez, Swowl. I ❤️ you so much. We are peacocks!

So I was saying hey and I missed you, and I voted because I hadnít voted for anyone and Joth had just announced the five day days. But I was never gonna exile you D1.

I think it is super weird that Galz decided to characterize the lack of  behavior that I donít usually exhibit was scummy. And he said I was doing it to look like I was engaging in the game, but heís actually done something far more hollow than he accused me of. Itís weird.

To your questions, MiXÖ. Iíve had a hard time getting into things in the last 24 hours because Glooble and faust essenatilly turned an off hand comment by e about massclaiming into a pretty deep tangent that mimic the kind of set-up talk that makes me glaze over. When I cast back, I think Glooble comes from scummier than faust in that exchange.

I will vote: Glooble for now
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #209 on: August 24, 2021, 07:34:17 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

This is a better justification for Galz' read than previous.
Still think skum WCD would just ignore me here, but I understand better what Galz was getting at.

YeahÖif I was scum I would ignore you completely. The risk of messing up is too great.
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classic Diddsian meddling
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #210 on: August 24, 2021, 08:18:25 pm »

Do WCD and Swowl know each other IRL or something like that? I'm fairly confused about it all.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2021, 08:23:16 pm »

Mathdude, it's a little helpful TBH because you posted something substantial so you moved out of the total nothing category but it doesn't help much because now I only know your read on me... which is like, meh, doesn't tell me a ton.

Two questions:

1) Can you share your read/vibe on at least one other person?
2) What about me made you want to vote me? Just the fact that I voted you or something else also?
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2021, 08:57:57 pm »

Starting from when the last player checked in for the first time...


Thank you, and yes. I'm a town  8)

hate the smiley face. personal paranoia, but I thing "I am town" followed by a smiley face is like texting "LOL" at the end of a accusatory or awkward statement.

I used to use that emoticon a lot (it's gotten me exiled at least twice) so I sorta used it for old times sake.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2021, 10:26:20 pm »

Do WCD and Swowl know each other IRL or something like that? I'm fairly confused about it all.

NahÖ about a year and a half ago or so we were a third party in game with daychat so we talked a lot. It was a crazy game, and we were in it until the endÖso there was just this epic qt. And, you know me, so not only did we talk a lot of strategy but I also have all kinds of life questions so now we are more known to one another than most people. I have played quite a bit of drunk mafia pre-pandemic with MiX, Swowl, Joth, and GalzÖand lots of quick games with them (and faust) on Jimmmmmís website. So, itís just familiarity.

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pubby

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #214 on: August 24, 2021, 10:43:02 pm »

I've been somewhat suspicious of glooble. Their first few posts were terse and seemed like they were just going through the motions. Then they jump into an argument with faust, acting defensively when the actual topic of discussion didn't require it.

But for now I'm fine with parking my vote on iguana. Swowl I read as town.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #215 on: August 24, 2021, 11:58:00 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

What does the QT have to do with anything? Can you elaborate?

My point was that WCD is someone that I believe seeks interactions. Those two in particular have had a QT in literally every game for like... the last 10 or so. Assuming they don't have one here, that would be really weird for them, and so with WCD in particular, I think she'll seek out that interaction more within the game thread (compared to just ignoring the fact). If WCD is town, I would've expected more of a "Swowl, come back from camping, we miss you!!!". Hell, I would've expected her to call out how sad she was that she didn't get to talk with him in a QT. The vote felt like an opportunistic way of creating that general interaction. I think that's more likely to come from scum WCD than town WCD.

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA
I think that sort of thing is quite the stretch. My default assumption is that scum pays more attention to the game, not less.

Why are you generalizing scum play as a whole? I agree that, generally speaking, scum pays more attention to the game, not less. I disagree strongly when that statement is made about WCD. Or rather, I think that scum!WCD is much more likely to force something than town!WCD, which will often cause her to overlook things that she might not have otherwise.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2021, 12:46:58 am »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA
I think that sort of thing is quite the stretch. My default assumption is that scum pays more attention to the game, not less.

Why are you generalizing scum play as a whole? I agree that, generally speaking, scum pays more attention to the game, not less. I disagree strongly when that statement is made about WCD. Or rather, I think that scum!WCD is much more likely to force something than town!WCD, which will often cause her to overlook things that she might not have otherwise.
It wasn't clear to me that your argument hinger on Didds' scum meta in particular. It makes more sense now, though I don't think I agree that Didds is scum.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2021, 12:54:07 am »

If at any point in time you feel like you have nothing to do in this game and you're itching to be useful, take a look at Glooble, and talk about your read on him. I think that would be helpful.

That includes Glooble. Lol.

Okie dokie.
First off... 7 total posts... so.... not really a lot to go off of here. But...

1.
Hello everyone!
Not a lot to speculate on really. So...
vote: Dylan32 I guess. Since I won't get to day 1 policy exile you in BSG, RVS is the next best thing.
Ok.. RVS whatever.

2.
Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan.
Getting some wagons started early is a good plan.
vote: pubby for reasons.
Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan. Wagons are good. Would like to know the pubby reasons though as they had almost literally done nothing so far in the game.

3.
Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.
Mass claim is bad.
A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.
I think this post from Dylan is a little bit scummy. It seems disingenuous to me. Iguana is clearly using hypothetical examples to make a point, and implying that he's somehow letting his secret setup knowledge slip is... weird.
I kind of have to agree with Glooble actually. I read II's comment as hypothetical train of thought as well. Kind of hard not to. I guess maybe a little shade casting, but also I agree with him so...

4.
See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

I'll join the faust wagon, I guess. That's a thing, right?

vote: faust
K this one hits a note though. Glooble thinks day 1 mass claims are bad. Cool. However, one of the reasons day 1 mass claims are bad is for sure not just the claim itself, but what faust said about leaking information. Weird to agree but also go after faust here.

5.

One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Fair defense enough of their reasoning. Does no good to back up why they would find faust skummy though I suppose.

6.

One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Seems strange not to take knowledge into account. You could have a role that says "if you target the Tracker, town wins". Surely that would influence your opinion on claiming. That is a ridiculously extreme example, but any role has a preference on knowing/not knowing roles to a lesser extent. If you don't take into account the knowledge that you have then you're not playing optimally.

I disagree. Even if I know that my own role benefits from or suffers from a mass claim, I don't know how scum are going to benefit or how that info might hurt other townies. I think considering your own role without thinking about what other roles might be in the game isn't playing optimally.

But whatever. We play the game differently, that's fine. You've convinced me that your objection wasn't alignment-indicative.
So IDK what it is I am looking for here... like at all in the re read... but I guess the back peddling could be due to heat. Other than that chance, nothing stands out here.

7.
I will admit I tend to scumread faust almost every game, regardless of which alignment he turns out to be.
Meh. Kind of hard for me to say that this is just creating an open door policy based on meta when I just did the "same/reverse" thing with WCD. But I could see how it comes off as that.


Yeah... nothing standing out crazy here to me. What are people seeing that I am not?
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2021, 01:04:44 am »

@ glooble - what were in fact your reasons for voting pubby when you did?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #219 on: August 25, 2021, 01:07:56 am »

This is the skummiest post of the game so far:

*snipped*
I had a whole lot more free time to start that game up with my wife and kids in vacation before I could get it to join them, so my activity level was inflated over "normal"
Also, not quite sure how to jump in here. I am on the verge of advocating a D1 mass claim, but know that would be foolish and just get me exiled

So I will
Vote: E!
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #220 on: August 25, 2021, 01:43:15 am »

Mathdude, it's a little helpful TBH because you posted something substantial so you moved out of the total nothing category but it doesn't help much because now I only know your read on me... which is like, meh, doesn't tell me a ton.

Two questions:

1) Can you share your read/vibe on at least one other person?
2) What about me made you want to vote me? Just the fact that I voted you or something else also?

Unvote

2. For now, it was mainly an OMGUS vote, as stated. I also tend to poke people with votes once in a while (mainly early game) to test for reasons.

1. I'm getting a Townie vibe from MiX!!! Just kidding... he still sounds scummy to me, but I know he's not (as per mod confirmation).

Really though, in my few short games, I've found I will typically think certain people are scummy, regardless of their alignment - MiX, faust, ashersky (not in this game), and probably e (though I think I've only played 1 other game with them). My initial read of your first few posts tells me you will probably land on this list too.

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people. At this point in the game, I'm not saying I think someone on the list is scum (even if I find some of their posts scummy), but I'm also not saying I give any of them a town pass just based on the fact that I can find them scummy when they are town, since they still might be scum... well, okay, I'll give MiX a town pass.

Did I actually answer your Q1? Not really. I gave my bias on reads. I'll let you know shortly if I see anything i think could be useful on a quick rescan.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #221 on: August 25, 2021, 02:07:02 am »

Okay, quick skim done. The two I'm most suspicious of at the moment are e and Awaclus. For e, it wasn't even really the massclaim comment or following discussion... it was the first post, saying he'll sheep (Awaclus, was it?) then just votes faust. For Awa, many of his posts feel off... short, just throwing stuff out there, not much reasoning for most of them.

If I had to trust someone at the moment, other than IC!MiX, it would probably be Swowl. He has come back interested in the game, asking relevant questions, trying to figure stuff out.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #222 on: August 25, 2021, 02:25:00 am »

For Awa, many of his posts feel off... short, just throwing stuff out there, not much reasoning for most of them.

I have mostly been assuming that the reasoning would be obvious, but if something is not clear, I can explain it in more detail (as long as it doesn't include any information I would rather not share).

He has come back interested in the game, asking relevant questions, trying to figure stuff out.

Scum does all of that in an RMM.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #223 on: August 25, 2021, 02:38:25 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Awaclus

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #224 on: August 25, 2021, 03:26:57 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.

"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:

Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember.  Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful?  If not, Iíd lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.

I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.
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