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Author Topic: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia  (Read 89605 times)

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jotheonah

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RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« on: May 19, 2021, 02:17:08 pm »

This will be a role madness game for 13 people with flavor based on the Wizard of Oz movie, and no other Oz source material.  It will be role madness in that everyone will have a role, but the roles themselves will be mostly uncomplicated and there are no weird novel gimmicks. Should just be chill, fun, classic mafia with a fun nostalgic theme.


co-mod: LaLight
/in list:

1. Awaclus
2. mathdude
3. faust
4. Swowl
5. mcmcsalot iguanaiguana
6. Dylan32
7. WestCoastDidds
8. 2.71828.....
9. Glooble
10. MiX
11. EFHW
12. pubby
13. Galzria

Alternates:
Jimmmmm

Normal mafia rules apply. Days will last five IRL days and nights will last 48 IRL hours.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 06:25:24 pm by jotheonah »
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2021, 02:28:46 pm »

/in
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mathdude

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2021, 07:04:58 pm »

hoping to be /in longer than day 1!
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faust

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 01:05:00 am »

/in
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 07:33:27 am »

can /comod, although my availability may be a bit hindered. but I can check once in 2-3 days
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 08:34:37 am »

can /comod, although my availability may be a bit hindered. but I can check once in 2-3 days

Thanks! You're hired.
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2021, 02:25:36 pm »

/insauce
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Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2021, 07:15:16 pm »

/in love the sound of this, though sad oz 2 isnít also cannon :)
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2021, 09:05:05 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2021, 05:25:07 pm »

Sure

/In
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021, 09:24:44 pm »

/in. I liked the 4th WofOz book - Dorothy and the wizard fall into a earthquake fault and have underground adventures.
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2021, 11:15:48 pm »

/tag
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2021, 11:19:33 am »

/in as a player or I can co-mod if you'd prefer.
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2021, 11:20:31 am »

Wait I just saw LaLight is co-modding. I'm in to play.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2021, 11:24:34 am »

I should probably jo/in, right?
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2021, 02:35:28 pm »

Then /in me, too
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Re: RMM59: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2021, 08:09:58 pm »

/tag

To be clear, only tagging because I need to focus on finishing SG1 mafia setup, not because of anything else.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2021, 02:06:32 pm »

Joining BSG, going to have to /out here
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hypercube

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2021, 12:02:22 pm »

I will join if this hasn't started once I've moved to Zurich in early July.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2021, 01:49:59 pm »

/out, sorry I do terribly trying to play two games at once.
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mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2021, 08:59:16 am »

/revive ?
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2021, 09:16:38 am »

Assuming there will be a similar gap between BSG seasons as last time, /in.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2021, 01:38:03 pm »

Assuming there will be a similar gap between BSG seasons as last time, /in.

/In
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2021, 03:11:28 pm »

Assuming there will be a similar gap between BSG seasons as last time, /in.
I think we'll take time to let all the currently open games fill. I don't want to monopolize the queue.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2021, 11:44:40 am »

back /in
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2021, 11:55:33 am »

/out

I won't have access between tomorrow and probably the 17th, so if it's starting now someone can have my spot.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2021, 07:31:15 pm »

/in as Munchkin Mayor
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2021, 07:53:49 pm »

Well, we should be at X-1 here if everyone that said in is still in and we have a mod.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2021, 01:46:41 am »

/hammerstats

Letís go!
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2021, 02:25:57 am »

Iíll DM Joth tomorrow on FB if he doesnít check in here by then (unless someone else wants to).
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Jimmmmm

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2021, 03:15:57 am »

/in
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2021, 03:16:37 am »

Oh wait was that already the hammer?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2021, 01:24:55 pm »

Iíll DM Joth tomorrow on FB if he doesnít check in here by then (unless someone else wants to).

smart!
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2021, 01:27:39 pm »

I can FB message him, Galzy
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2021, 01:06:18 pm »

hi friends. I'm at a conference until next week, so I will start this then. Sorry to make you all wait! Maybe I can find time to do PMs and confirmations sooner.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2021, 12:43:28 pm »

OK, I have sorted out all the /ins and /outs and updated the player list. I also made some setup changes based on LaLight's suggestions. So all that's left is to roll this up, make QTs, etc. Should have time for all that this evening.
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pubby

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2021, 03:32:12 am »

Day 1 better be in black and white
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2021, 07:13:48 am »

So the host can't post in a fun colour? Or just can't post vote counts? Hnnm
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2021, 04:49:02 pm »

Thread locked while PMs go out. Please confirm in your QT when you receive your role.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2021, 05:06:19 pm »

All PMs are out! Game will start 24 hours after the last confirmation.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2021, 09:00:01 am »

So the host can't post in a fun colour? Or just can't post vote counts? Hnnm
The Kansas part of the movie is in B&W.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2021, 10:34:16 am »

We have one player who has not confirmed after well over 24 hours. I will be reaching out to alternates about taking the spot.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2021, 06:49:10 pm »

iguanaiguana has replaced mcmcsalot
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2021, 02:03:02 pm »

Game start at 7 pm forum time.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2021, 06:59:28 pm »

Somewhere in Kansas, on the Gale family farm, a little girl is dreaming of a better life. She is Dorothy Gale, an Innocent Child.

ďSomewhere over the rainbow, Toto,Ē she says to her little dog. ďTheres a more exciting life for us.Ē

Little did she know how exciting her life was about to become.

Meanwhile in a faraway land, in a dark and creepy castle, a green witch watches the little girl through her crystal ball.

ďIíll get you my pretty,Ē she says. ďAnd your little dog too!Ē

Day one begins now. MiX is confirmed town.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile.

Thread Unlocked
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 06:13:19 pm by jotheonah »
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2021, 07:12:00 pm »

First! Let's be honest, MiX being IC is like the best case scenario. There's nobody I'd rather not have to try to read lol
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2021, 07:20:08 pm »

Second!

Hi I'm the IC. Scum, kill me.

I'll be back with thoughts. In the mean time, how is everyone today?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2021, 08:24:41 pm »

Hello everyone!

Not a lot to speculate on really. So...

vote: Dylan32 I guess. Since I won't get to day 1 policy exile you in BSG, RVS is the next best thing.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2021, 08:30:34 pm »

MiX!

Why should I believe that you arenít scuÖ

Fuck.

Nevermind.

Hello everybody!! Good to be back in a game!
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2021, 08:33:38 pm »

MiX!

Why should I believe that you arenít scuÖ

Fuck.

Nevermind.

Hello everybody!! Good to be back in a game!

Vote: Galzria
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2021, 08:33:48 pm »

So this IS still an RMM (I know a normal game has been in the works/requested/desired for a time now), but beyond thatÖ we donít know much about this setup really. I guess Joth promised none of the roles would be wonky.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2021, 08:35:17 pm »

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that Iíve missed a few games now, but whatís the last one you were in??
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2021, 08:37:07 pm »

FYI - Swowl is going camping starting tonight and may not have access until he gets back sometime on Tuesday.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2021, 08:46:30 pm »

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that Iíve missed a few games now, but whatís the last one you were in??

Looking at my own post history... I last played a game in September of 2018.

My goal this run around is to be a bit less of a jerk.

Vote: Lalight.

Having an IC leads to really good PoE that he is scum.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2021, 09:06:12 pm »

So this IS still an RMM (I know a normal game has been in the works/requested/desired for a time now), but beyond thatÖ we donít know much about this setup really. I guess Joth promised none of the roles would be wonky.

I am just an IC so I would expect roles to be one-dimensional, as it were.

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that Iíve missed a few games now, but whatís the last one you were in??

Looking at my own post history... I last played a game in September of 2018.

My goal this run around is to be a bit less of a jerk.

Vote: Lalight.

Having an IC leads to really good PoE that he is scum.

Hi iguana! If I recall correctly, you are awesome. Are you also town?
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2021, 09:13:49 pm »

Spectators, feel free to PM me for the speccy link.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2021, 09:25:35 pm »

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that Iíve missed a few games now, but whatís the last one you were in??

Looking at my own post history... I last played a game in September of 2018.

My goal this run around is to be a bit less of a jerk.

Vote: Lalight.

Having an IC leads to really good PoE that he is scum.

So hilariously (and true story), Swowl and I were on our way to a baseball game yesterday afternoon and he looks over at me while Iím driving and goes Ö man, I you know who Iíve missed that we havenít seen in forever? IguanaIguana!

He then recounted the time you went to your exile spamming the thread with memeís after getting caught as a poisoner. When we got back I checked to see if the game was open and couldnít believe to see you had subbed in! Serendipitous!
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

EFHW

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2021, 10:26:10 pm »

Iguana!!!

Man, I know that Iíve missed a few games now, but whatís the last one you were in??

Looking at my own post history... I last played a game in September of 2018.

My goal this run around is to be a bit less of a jerk.

Vote: Lalight.

Having an IC leads to really good PoE that he is scum.

No way it's been three years! Seriously?
I think everyone who comes back to mafia after a break resolves to be nicer this time around. I did.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2021, 10:29:08 pm »

First! Let's be honest, MiX being IC is like the best case scenario. There's nobody I'd rather not have to try to read lol

My thought as well.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2021, 01:40:17 am »

Vote: faust
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2021, 02:03:16 am »

Howdy.
Can confirm I am camping for a few days, but should have someeeeee access.
Can confirm random nostalgic convo with Galz about II right before he joined.

Welcome back iguana.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. Thatís how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2021, 02:38:40 am »

Vote: faust

That's a case I can sheep

Vote: faust
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pubby

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2021, 02:45:35 am »

vote: iguanaiguana
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2021, 03:15:16 am »

No way it's been three years! Seriously?
I think everyone who comes back to mafia after a break resolves to be nicer this time around. I did.
Now I'm wondering how that reflects on me, given that I never had a proper break...
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2021, 03:16:01 am »

Vote: faust
Is there any particular game that I was scum in that prompted this vote?
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2021, 03:19:09 am »

Hello everyone!

Not a lot to speculate on really. So...

vote: Dylan32 I guess. Since I won't get to day 1 policy exile you in BSG, RVS is the next best thing.

I mean, yeah, I got that one wrong about you, but at least I was honest about it lol.
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #66 on: August 22, 2021, 03:20:45 am »

Vote: faust
Is there any particular game that I was scum in that prompted this vote?
And I'm already regretting this question since I know what the answer is going to be.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #67 on: August 22, 2021, 06:22:20 am »

Vote: faust
Is there any particular game that I was scum in that prompted this vote?
And I'm already regretting this question since I know what the answer is going to be.

It's a good answer, you have to be honest here.

Vote: faust

This is not a good vote, however.

Vote: Awaclus
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mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #68 on: August 22, 2021, 08:02:41 am »

Well, my typical first vote isn't available... what kind of mod makes MiX an IC? Seriously though, I agree with others that it's better not having to try and read MiX, who I usually read as scum, even when he's town.

Vote: pubby
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2021, 08:42:57 am »

Hi hi hi hi hi hi!

I loooooooooove the Wizard of Oz. I went to grad school in Kansas (the breadbasket of America is a bastion for rhetoric scholars, who knew?!) and endured years of Dorothy jokes, but I love it still. It was also my middle school play a million year ago.

MiX! You are the best IC! Galzy! Itís been a minute! Iguana!!! Hi hi hi!

Also, iguana was my coach when I first, first started playing. There was a newbie game where everyone was allowed to have a coach, although only a couple of us did. He was my coach, and he helped me understand some things that would have taken me forever to figure out.

faust, Iím glad youíve never left. You are made of awesome.

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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Awaclus

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2021, 10:17:15 am »

Vote: faust
Is there any particular game that I was scum in that prompted this vote?

Yes, RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2021, 11:07:28 am »

Vote: faust
Is there any particular game that I was scum in that prompted this vote?

Yes, RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia.

He hadn't even posted once, so how could he have influenced your vote at all?

Can you explain why you voted for faust?
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2021, 11:25:57 am »

Vote: mathdude
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2021, 11:31:26 am »

Vote: faust

That's a case I can sheep

Vote: faust

Hey e! Last game you were pretty excited about being here, why is your first post this game low effort comparatively?

Also, faust didn't even post...I like faust wagons when he's scummy, but just wagoning him for no reason is exactly how he gets to live D1 everytime he's scum.
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2021, 11:34:39 am »

Also, faust didn't even post...I like faust wagons when he's scummy, but just wagoning him for no reason is exactly how he gets to live D1 everytime he's scum.
Oh is that how? I figured it was my winning personality...
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2021, 11:35:40 am »

Also, faust didn't even post...I like faust wagons when he's scummy, but just wagoning him for no reason is exactly how he gets to live D1 everytime he's scum.
Oh is that how? I figured it was my winning personality...

Well, that's how you live D1 in general.
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mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2021, 12:26:08 pm »

Vote: mathdude

No. I'm not going to allow that. That's MiX's job. Try again.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2021, 12:28:43 pm »

Thanks for the warm welcome back everyone.

I had forgotten about those memes, so I looked them up. They were LOST themed and quite dank.

No one sheeped my awesome Lalight RVS case... that makes it stronger, no?


Hi iguana! If I recall correctly, you are awesome. Are you also town?

Thank you, and yes. I'm a town  8)

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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2021, 12:40:36 pm »

Can you explain why you voted for faust?

Well it was obviously an RVS vote, but I figured I'd rather not punish the people who had posted something for activity.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2021, 01:09:10 pm »

Can you explain why you voted for faust?

Well it was obviously an RVS vote, but I figured I'd rather not punish the people who had posted something for activity.
It is clearly preferable to punish people for sleeping!
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2021, 01:31:56 pm »

Can you explain why you voted for faust?

Well it was obviously an RVS vote, but I figured I'd rather not punish the people who had posted something for activity.
It is clearly preferable to punish people for sleeping!

Yeah! Sleeping is fine, but activity is important.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2021, 02:16:28 pm »

faust, when was the last time (if ever ... although I *think* it has happened?) that you were exiled on D1?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #82 on: August 22, 2021, 03:37:26 pm »

faust, when was the last time (if ever ... although I *think* it has happened?) that you were exiled on D1?
It definitely happened... I remember this game. It was a while ago. Not sure if it happened since. I don't recall ever being exiled D1 as scum.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #83 on: August 22, 2021, 04:05:04 pm »

faust, when was the last time (if ever ... although I *think* it has happened?) that you were exiled on D1?
It definitely happened... I remember this game. It was a while ago. Not sure if it happened since. I don't recall ever being exiled D1 as scum.

So long ago. That was my third game I believe.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #84 on: August 22, 2021, 04:08:19 pm »

Vote: faust

That's a case I can sheep

Vote: faust

Hey e! Last game you were pretty excited about being here, why is your first post this game low effort comparatively?

Also, faust didn't even post...I like faust wagons when he's scummy, but just wagoning him for no reason is exactly how he gets to live D1 everytime he's scum.

I had a whole lot more free time to start that game up with my wife and kids in vacation before I could get it to join them, so my activity level was inflated over "normal"

Also, not quite sure how to jump in here. I am on the verge of advocating a D1 mass claim, but know that would be foolish and just get me exiled
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #85 on: August 22, 2021, 04:16:41 pm »

I had a whole lot more free time to start that game up with my wife and kids in vacation before I could get it to join them, so my activity level was inflated over "normal"

Also, not quite sure how to jump in here. I am on the verge of advocating a D1 mass claim, but know that would be foolish and just get me exiled

I have thought about it, and given that I know the least about the setup, I am clearly in a position to say that massclaiming is anti-town.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #86 on: August 22, 2021, 06:24:24 pm »

Batten down the hatches everybody! A twister's coming through!

The cyclone rages through the Gale family farm and picks up the whole farmhouse, dumping it square in the middle of the land of Oz.

Birds sing. Munchkins dance. Everything is in technicolor and there's a pretty yellow brick road winding through the town. All is well... except for that pair of shiny shoes poking out from underneath the house...

Vote Count 1.1

Dylan32 (1): Glooble
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
faust (2):  Awaclus, 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
Awaclus (1): MiX
pubby (1): mathdude
mathdude (1): faust

Not voting (5): Swowl, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. I never told you guys how long days and nights were going to be. We're going for five-day days and 48 hour nights. Which means day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time.



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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2021, 07:00:21 pm »

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, etc etc
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #88 on: August 22, 2021, 07:59:45 pm »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #89 on: August 22, 2021, 08:05:57 pm »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

Iíve never seen it actually happen but I can imagine the disastrous scenarios. The one thing different in this game might be that I think our flavor names are unique and there probably isnít a huge pool of possibly fake names since the WOOz is such a familiar text. I donít think this reason is good enough to advocate for it, but it does seem different than the games weíve played that are less tied to flavor.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2021, 08:12:50 pm »

I definitely felt like I was an IC because my flavor had to be in the game, and be town.

But like, of course scum have fake claims.

Maybe it would make sense to advocate for massclaim if anyone has an actual way to benefit from it?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #91 on: August 22, 2021, 08:52:44 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2021, 09:02:41 pm »

I definitely felt like I was an IC because my flavor had to be in the game, and be town.

But like, of course scum have fake claims.

Maybe it would make sense to advocate for massclaim if anyone has an actual way to benefit from it?

I donít see what the benefit would beÖ.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2021, 09:06:28 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.

A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2021, 09:07:38 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.

A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.

Just a hypothetical with random stereotypical made up powers for both alignments
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2021, 10:09:52 pm »

Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan.

Getting some wagons started early is a good plan.

vote: pubby for reasons.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2021, 12:46:20 am »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #97 on: August 23, 2021, 12:48:11 am »

I also feel compelled to say that I will be VLA from August 27 - September 4. I thought that was okay, but with the shorter days it's going to be a bigger portion of the game unfortunately.

I'll still be able to check in, but my activity definitely will suffer.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #98 on: August 23, 2021, 02:04:40 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2021, 02:05:16 am »

Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan.

Getting some wagons started early is a good plan.

vote: pubby for reasons.

I don't like your reasons

Vote: Glooble
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2021, 02:10:23 am »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

I like to know things.

But also, short days! Huge fan, we just can't get off to a lethargic start.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2021, 02:20:04 am »

I like Glooble's reasons.

Vote: e
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2021, 02:24:47 am »

I like Glooble's reasons.

Vote: e

Yet you vote for me, not pubby
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2021, 02:30:22 am »

I like Glooble's reasons.

Vote: e

Yet you vote for me, not pubby

I like my reasons more.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2021, 05:26:47 am »

"Mass claim bad" is the most standard boring comment anyone could make. It's correct, but it doesn't help in any way and it's an easy way to look as though you are contributing to the discussion.

Vote: iguana
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2021, 05:29:03 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2021, 05:39:59 am »

I like Glooble's reasons.

Vote: e

I like Awaclus' reasons.

Vote: e
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2021, 05:48:26 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Take responsibility for initiating the end of RVS? I take full responsibility.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2021, 05:54:37 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2021, 05:58:46 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2021, 05:59:07 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing couldgood but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.
EBWOP
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2021, 06:03:49 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Take responsibility for initiating the end of RVS? I take full responsibility.
I'm pretty sure RVS was already over by the time you made your massclaim comment.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2021, 06:11:09 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Take responsibility for initiating the end of RVS? I take full responsibility.
I'm pretty sure RVS was already over by the time you made your massclaim comment.

I disagree.

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2021, 06:16:09 am »

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?

Nobody was casting votes at that time, but the discussion was already moving out of RVS.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2021, 06:20:21 am »

Vote: mathdude

This is the only post that uses previous posts to do something (other than mine) that was made before e's massclaim post.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2021, 06:24:41 am »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Take responsibility for initiating the end of RVS? I take full responsibility.
I'm pretty sure RVS was already over by the time you made your massclaim comment.

I disagree.

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?
You pointed out my vote and yours, which were both non-RVS. I cannot speak to mathdude's vote on pubby, which was in between, and may or may not have been RVS.

Furthermore, when e posted, it had been 10 posts without a vote. Not much of a random voting stage if noone's voting.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2021, 06:25:21 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2021, 06:26:33 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
Galzria
mathdude
WCD

I think they're all town.

Which one do you think is scummiest, based on their response to me being IC?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2021, 06:28:01 am »

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?

Nobody was casting votes at that time, but the discussion was already moving out of RVS.
I find it irritating that Awaclus of all people is jumping in to answer questions not addressed to him.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2021, 06:32:59 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
Galzria
mathdude
WCD

I think they're all town.

Which one do you think is scummiest, based on their response to me being IC?

Dylan and math basically said the same thing, both felt the scummiest
Galzria was making a joke, which we all know is scummy
WCD's was classic WCD, she is town

I will go with math being scum if I had to pick one
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2021, 06:39:39 am »

I'll follow your gut.

Vote: Galzria

Galzria, do you have any reads?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2021, 07:28:22 am »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
Mostly keep him talking. If he has some scummy scheme in mind, then let him dig himself deeper. What did you think I was intending?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2021, 07:34:03 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
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I said this, too.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2021, 07:54:24 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
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mathdude
WCD
I said this, too.

Ah, yes. I see. You quoted and agreed with Dylan's post. I apologize for missing you

Vote: EFHW
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2021, 07:55:03 am »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
Mostly keep him talking. If he has some scummy scheme in mind, then let him dig himself deeper. What did you think I was intending?
I don't know, that's why I was asking.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #125 on: August 23, 2021, 09:02:19 am »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
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WCD
I said this, too.

Ah, yes. I see. You quoted and agreed with Dylan's post. I apologize for missing you

Vote: EFHW
I hate being left out  :P
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #126 on: August 23, 2021, 09:04:03 am »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
Mostly keep him talking. If he has some scummy scheme in mind, then let him dig himself deeper. What did you think I was intending?
I don't know, that's why I was asking.
And what do you think now?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #127 on: August 23, 2021, 10:24:05 am »

vote: Swowl

where you at, homie?
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #128 on: August 23, 2021, 10:30:27 am »

Howdy.
Can confirm I am camping for a few days, but should have someeeeee access.
Can confirm random nostalgic convo with Galz about II right before he joined.

Welcome back iguana.
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #129 on: August 23, 2021, 10:48:06 am »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
Mostly keep him talking. If he has some scummy scheme in mind, then let him dig himself deeper. What did you think I was intending?
I don't know, that's why I was asking.
And what do you think now?
I think that maybe it wasn't an attempt at rolefishing, but I'm not completely convinced.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #130 on: August 23, 2021, 11:10:56 am »

"Oh my!" says Dorothy, looking down at the two shoes poking out from under the house. "I didn't mean to drop my house on anyone!"

"But you have!" replies a voice from waist height. "And as the Mayor of the Munchkin City, it is my duty to investigate this unfortunate residenceicide!"

Suddenly munchkins start appearing from all around.

"We will discover whose feet these are... and then we'll investigate who's to blame!"



Vote Count 1.2

iguanaiguana (2): pubby, faust
pubby (2): mathdude, Glooble
EFHW (1): 2.71828....
2.71828.... (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): MiX
Swowl (1): WestCoastDidds

Not voting (5): Swowl, Dylan32, Galzria, EFHW, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 01:39:13 pm by jotheonah »
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #131 on: August 23, 2021, 12:06:06 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #132 on: August 23, 2021, 12:07:32 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.

Don't worry, I don't think joth knew LL wasn't playing either.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #133 on: August 23, 2021, 12:15:08 pm »

Looks like the closest things to wagons are on me and pubby.

The only reason I see to vote pubby is OMGUS and maybe he hasn't posted much information.

I'm not worried about faust voting me. He reads me fine and will see I am town!iguana soon enough.

I actually like the Awaclus vote best. Admittedly my vote is based on Awaclus meta that is three years out of date. But I am finding him to be eerily eager to be helpful compared to what I had come to expect from town!Awaclus.

Vote: Awaclus
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #134 on: August 23, 2021, 12:17:50 pm »

Oops. Updating that vote count now.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #135 on: August 23, 2021, 12:57:54 pm »

I actually like the Awaclus vote best. Admittedly my vote is based on Awaclus meta that is three years out of date. But I am finding him to be eerily eager to be helpful compared to what I had come to expect from town!Awaclus.

I was always helpful.
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Swowl

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #136 on: August 23, 2021, 03:08:18 pm »

Prod dodge. Still camping til tomorrow morning.

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mathdude

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #137 on: August 23, 2021, 03:49:42 pm »

RVS is such a squishy category.

Also, D1 you just need things to react to.

Hot take: I thought all the comments about "oh I am so happy MiX is IC" were overboard. I bet we find scum there.
Dylan
Galzria
mathdude
WCD

Ordinarily, I would say there might be something to go on here. But looking at who is on the list, and my limited experience here, and the interactions between such people and MiX (including EFHW, added to this list later)... none of these comments surprise me.  Are you trying to drum up trouble where there isn't any?

I'm not saying that while list is town. Just that the comments about IC!MiX don't ring any scum bells to me.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #138 on: August 23, 2021, 03:51:17 pm »

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?

Nobody was casting votes at that time, but the discussion was already moving out of RVS.
I find it irritating that Awaclus of all people is jumping in to answer questions not addressed to him.

I find it interesting that faust is jumping on someone who is participating in a discussion. Maybe there's history there I'm not aware of.
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #139 on: August 23, 2021, 04:15:20 pm »

Did you have a particular non-RVS vote in mind when you said this? If so, can you show it to me?

Nobody was casting votes at that time, but the discussion was already moving out of RVS.
I find it irritating that Awaclus of all people is jumping in to answer questions not addressed to him.

I find it interesting that faust is jumping on someone who is participating in a discussion. Maybe there's history there I'm not aware of.
I have definitely always complained when people answered questions that weren't meant for them. And it's particularly strange from Awaclus. Also, are you not the one jumping on Awaclus?
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #140 on: August 23, 2021, 04:16:13 pm »

Ah no sorry, that last part isn't true, I got confused.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #141 on: August 23, 2021, 05:02:35 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.

This is hilarious. I assumed you were doing it to be funny and as a way of saying hi to him. Iím quite certain that at some point in this game, someone will vote for Joth because he always deserves it. But this is just funny.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #142 on: August 23, 2021, 05:03:44 pm »

It took me a minute to find the game because itís been pinned to the top instead of appearing below the pinned posts, is that on purpose??
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pubby

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2021, 05:32:14 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.
In other words you felt obligated to vote for someone in your opening post and didn't care who. Scummy much?
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #144 on: August 23, 2021, 05:46:37 pm »

I'll follow your gut.

Vote: Galzria

Galzria, do you have any reads?

Iím trying to decide how I feel about e! in re: to his half lobbed idea to mass claim. My gut says itís scummy because even if we donít do it, itís encouraging slip ups and hints in just the way itís argued for/against. But then my brain says scum doesnít really care enough in an RMM to push it, or even throw it out there.

I also thought faust was uncharacteristic in his response to an RVS vote, which I feel like he generally just ignores entirely as town (I feel like town faust puts more effort into developing reads than he does responding to / caring about random votes on himself) - but it was early RVS and itís not like there was anything substantial for him to be doing so itís not really a big thing.

Beyond that:

Vote: WCD

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA (by both me and then himself), and the vote on Swowl, given their previous games together, feels like an intentionally aimed vote to show participation without actually engaging. It has a ďIíve got to make sure I vote Swowl D1 or heíll be suspicious of me for not going at himĒ type vibe, and I could see scum!Didds overlooking the VLA while making sure to get that vote in.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #145 on: August 23, 2021, 05:50:05 pm »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA (by both me and then himself), and the vote on Swowl, given their previous games together, feels like an intentionally aimed vote to show participation without actually engaging. It has a ďIíve got to make sure I vote Swowl D1 or heíll be suspicious of me for not going at himĒ type vibe, and I could see scum!Didds overlooking the VLA while making sure to get that vote in.

Swowl, can you confirm this is the case?
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #146 on: August 23, 2021, 06:59:15 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #147 on: August 23, 2021, 07:08:55 pm »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA (by both me and then himself), and the vote on Swowl, given their previous games together, feels like an intentionally aimed vote to show participation without actually engaging. It has a ďIíve got to make sure I vote Swowl D1 or heíll be suspicious of me for not going at himĒ type vibe, and I could see scum!Didds overlooking the VLA while making sure to get that vote in.

Swowl, can you confirm this is the case?

I am not answer for Swowl. But I can tell you that Galz is on the good drugs. I literally never go after Swowl D1. I donít have a move like that in my repertoire So, heís surely not going to rib me for not doing it. And I didnít space on the VLA. Galz said ďweekendĒ and itís Monday.  That Galz is trying to gin up a charge built on a history he created for me is way shadier than anything heís accusing me of.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #148 on: August 23, 2021, 07:10:55 pm »

Oh, Galz did say Swan would be back on Tuesday. My mistake. All the rest of his ďcaseĒ is still a fabrication though.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #149 on: August 23, 2021, 07:42:28 pm »

While I donít have a usual D1 target (except maybe Joseph?), Galz going after me is very on brand.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #150 on: August 23, 2021, 07:45:31 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #151 on: August 23, 2021, 08:09:09 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.

A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.

I think this post from Dylan is a little bit scummy. It seems disingenuous to me. Iguana is clearly using hypothetical examples to make a point, and implying that he's somehow letting his secret setup knowledge slip is... weird.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2021, 08:13:10 pm »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

I'll join the faust wagon, I guess. That's a thing, right?

vote: faust

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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #153 on: August 23, 2021, 08:18:31 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.
In other words you felt obligated to vote for someone in your opening post and didn't care who. Scummy much?

No, I RVS'd Lalight because when I chose to come back after three years and /inned a game, LL was the one who expressed excitement about me coming back. That made him an emotionally comfortable person to RVS because he was nice to me. I just didn't realize that he wasn't playing in this game and those posts werent part of this pre game because I signed up for this months ago.

I didn't feel obligated to RVS. I usually do though because voting creates interactions and helps D1 not to suck as much. I mean, look at this fun interaction we're having right now because of it!
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #154 on: August 23, 2021, 08:23:09 pm »

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.
What do you think this question will accomplish?
Mostly keep him talking. If he has some scummy scheme in mind, then let him dig himself deeper. What did you think I was intending?
I don't know, that's why I was asking.
And what do you think now?
I think that maybe it wasn't an attempt at rolefishing, but I'm not completely convinced.
I was trusting town!e to know what not to say, while challenging a possible scum!e to commit himself further. There was a spate of games some years back where it seemed that people were role-slipping left and right. I think we had a bunch of inexperienced players then, and e does not fit that description.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #155 on: August 23, 2021, 08:27:02 pm »

Ok, time for an embarassing post.

Lalight is not playing :(

I just realized this... right now. I think when I cast my first vote, I had just scanned the players and saw LL's name. Then for some reason Joth decided to make my vote for his comod count in the vote totals... which validated my feelings of LL playing this game. Today I looked to try to figure out why he hadn't posted yet... and ... yeah... Lol, I failed.
In other words you felt obligated to vote for someone in your opening post and didn't care who. Scummy much?

I feel like there is an unusual amount of opportunistic shading going on in this game so far. I liked pubby's previous post, though. I felt like he read my intentions pretty well.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #156 on: August 23, 2021, 08:35:03 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

What does the QT have to do with anything? Can you elaborate?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #157 on: August 23, 2021, 08:37:14 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

Iím not following. Why do my previous QTs that he was in mean that Iíd need to start by going after him because ďIíve got to make sure I vote Swowl D1 or heíll be suspicious of me for not going after himĒ? That just doesnít make any sense to me.

I am looking forward to playing with him again, along with you, MiX, faust, and EFHW. Well, everyone really, because I think of you as friends, but even more so with those folks. So, there is genuine enthusiasm, but it wasnít forced. I realized he was VLA, I just thought it was for the weekend not Tuesday. But whatevs. Once you get an idea in your head, I just get frustrated when you dig in.

All in all reality, and in light of our pretty solid record of misexiles on D1, unless something really dramatic happens in the next three days, I will probably advocate for no exile because a good Ďole Joth RMM is going to have night powers that are more interesting and important than what weíre doing D1. Iím not there yet because Iím thinking about when we caught Joth in Memento (although that was D2, I just reminded myselfÖit felt like D2 because I couldnít vote D1.)

PPE : MiX
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #158 on: August 23, 2021, 08:50:34 pm »

I don't like voting for pubby, Faust, Galzria, Glooble...maybe also e and Dylan.

These players have made reasoned cases and have backed them up with at least one vote. That doesn't make them all town, but it's a towny thing to do. Scum would rather not have reads and votes that can expose them on D3+ flying around on D1.

I still like Awaclus. But I will look if anyone else has more than one vote.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #159 on: August 23, 2021, 08:57:23 pm »

WCD, who is scum to you?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #160 on: August 23, 2021, 11:59:52 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.

A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.

I think this post from Dylan is a little bit scummy. It seems disingenuous to me. Iguana is clearly using hypothetical examples to make a point, and implying that he's somehow letting his secret setup knowledge slip is... weird.

Meh, that was just the first thing I had seen that stuck out as even remotely alignment indicative, even though like I said it is most likely nothing. The reason it even remotely pinged as maybe something was the total lack of any direct hypothetical language, like no "if" or "might" or "maybe" was used at all, which is fairly normal for hypothetical things like that. On a balance, I agree it is way more likely that it was truly hypothetical, but since there's a nonzero chance it was something, I pointed it out.

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

--snip-- I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

--snip--

I won't say what info can be gained from it in order to not give you any tips if you are scum and haven't figured it out, but simply put, even if nobody leaks anything detailed enough for someone to figure out "so-and-so is a watcher" or something like that, scum can get information based on people's reactions that could help them target roles that would be worse for town to lose.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #161 on: August 24, 2021, 02:01:29 am »

I have definitely always complained when people answered questions that weren't meant for them. And it's particularly strange from Awaclus.

Why is it particularly strange from me? I probably do it more than the average person.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #162 on: August 24, 2021, 02:06:46 am »

I still like Awaclus.

I like you too <3
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #163 on: August 24, 2021, 02:10:05 am »

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

Nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!", but someone could say "ooh, awful idea! I definitely don't think we should massclaim this game!" and then everyone would know that was the cop.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #164 on: August 24, 2021, 03:25:49 am »

I have definitely always complained when people answered questions that weren't meant for them. And it's particularly strange from Awaclus.

Why is it particularly strange from me? I probably do it more than the average person.
I perceive you as a player that put an above-average amount of thought into each word that you post. And if you put thought in to whether it's a good idea to answer questions meant for other players, I figure you would arrive at the conclusion that it's hurtful to town.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

Nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!", but someone could say "ooh, awful idea! I definitely don't think we should massclaim this game!" and then everyone would know that was the cop.
This is the perfect example of what I am talking about. I was about to make that point, but now it is impossible to tell whether that is really what I intended or whether I just opportunistically supported your reasoning. There is no more need for me to put my thoughts into my own words, and so the answer to the question is way less helpful to Glooble trying to figure out my alignment.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #165 on: August 24, 2021, 03:29:15 am »

I do have an additional remark on why talking about massclaims is bad.

As Awaclus pointed out, stating your preference pro or anti massclaim possibly in itself reveals role info because some roles benefit or suffer disproportionately from a massclaim.

One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #166 on: August 24, 2021, 03:34:02 am »

I was trusting town!e to know what not to say, while challenging a possible scum!e to commit himself further. There was a spate of games some years back where it seemed that people were role-slipping left and right. I think we had a bunch of inexperienced players then, and e does not fit that description.
This post has the same underlying issue that I pointed out above. Basically you're asking town!e to be a bit disingenuous, and thus the answer he gives will likely look scummy no matter his alignment.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #167 on: August 24, 2021, 03:43:16 am »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA
I think that sort of thing is quite the stretch. My default assumption is that scum pays more attention to the game, not less.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #168 on: August 24, 2021, 03:47:18 am »

I think I'm back to

Vote: mathdude

for now.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #169 on: August 24, 2021, 03:50:43 am »

I perceive you as a player that put an above-average amount of thought into each word that you post. And if you put thought in to whether it's a good idea to answer questions meant for other players, I figure you would arrive at the conclusion that it's hurtful to town.

I understand that it's harmful to town in some cases, but in some other cases, getting the question answered furthers the game and it doesn't really matter who does it.

This is the perfect example of what I am talking about. I was about to make that point, but now it is impossible to tell whether that is really what I intended or whether I just opportunistically supported your reasoning. There is no more need for me to put my thoughts into my own words, and so the answer to the question is way less helpful to Glooble trying to figure out my alignment.

Yeah, that is a pretty good example. In this case, I did not have any hopes of any useful info regarding your alignment coming out of you answering the question yourself. I fully trust you were going to make that argument anyway and it doesn't make me think you're at all more likely to be town.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #170 on: August 24, 2021, 06:12:08 am »

I perceive you as a player that put an above-average amount of thought into each word that you post. And if you put thought in to whether it's a good idea to answer questions meant for other players, I figure you would arrive at the conclusion that it's hurtful to town.

I understand that it's harmful to town in some cases, but in some other cases, getting the question answered furthers the game and it doesn't really matter who does it.

This is the perfect example of what I am talking about. I was about to make that point, but now it is impossible to tell whether that is really what I intended or whether I just opportunistically supported your reasoning. There is no more need for me to put my thoughts into my own words, and so the answer to the question is way less helpful to Glooble trying to figure out my alignment.

Yeah, that is a pretty good example. In this case, I did not have any hopes of any useful info regarding your alignment coming out of you answering the question yourself. I fully trust you were going to make that argument anyway and it doesn't make me think you're at all more likely to be town.
That mindset seems a bit arrogant to me. You might not have hopes of useful info coming out of this, but presumably the person asking the question had, or otherwise they would not have asked. You make yourself the arbiter of what is and isn't a useful question.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #171 on: August 24, 2021, 06:35:57 am »

That mindset seems a bit arrogant to me. You might not have hopes of useful info coming out of this, but presumably the person asking the question had, or otherwise they would not have asked. You make yourself the arbiter of what is and isn't a useful question.

Glooble didn't see why the massclaim suggestion could have led to information being leaked, I helped him see why. It was a useful question and a useful answer. If Glooble did in fact see why, and was only pretending in order to hear your explanation, then I misunderstood what he was trying to do.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #172 on: August 24, 2021, 07:10:40 am »

WCD, who is scum to you?

I dunno. (And I donít think anyone else really does either, except scum obvi). There is a pretty long list of folks who I think are towny. Mathdude, Dylan, and Galz are not on that list. And Iím not sure what I think of the current faust/Awaclus discussion.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #173 on: August 24, 2021, 08:25:11 am »


One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #174 on: August 24, 2021, 08:30:10 am »


One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.

...Which means it's useless when you're trying to scumread people. It's noise at worse.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #175 on: August 24, 2021, 08:37:16 am »


One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Seems strange not to take knowledge into account. You could have a role that says "if you target the Tracker, town wins". Surely that would influence your opinion on claiming. That is a ridiculously extreme example, but any role has a preference on knowing/not knowing roles to a lesser extent. If you don't take into account the knowledge that you have then you're not playing optimally.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #176 on: August 24, 2021, 09:11:45 am »


One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Seems strange not to take knowledge into account. You could have a role that says "if you target the Tracker, town wins". Surely that would influence your opinion on claiming. That is a ridiculously extreme example, but any role has a preference on knowing/not knowing roles to a lesser extent. If you don't take into account the knowledge that you have then you're not playing optimally.

I disagree. Even if I know that my own role benefits from or suffers from a mass claim, I don't know how scum are going to benefit or how that info might hurt other townies. I think considering your own role without thinking about what other roles might be in the game isn't playing optimally.

But whatever. We play the game differently, that's fine. You've convinced me that your objection wasn't alignment-indicative.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #177 on: August 24, 2021, 10:04:07 am »

Yeah let's move on.

I've noticed that Dylan has also chimed in on the issue. Hey Dylan, do you feel like also sharing some reads? Do you think Glooble is scummy for voting for me?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #178 on: August 24, 2021, 12:03:03 pm »


One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Seems strange not to take knowledge into account. You could have a role that says "if you target the Tracker, town wins". Surely that would influence your opinion on claiming. That is a ridiculously extreme example, but any role has a preference on knowing/not knowing roles to a lesser extent. If you don't take into account the knowledge that you have then you're not playing optimally.

I disagree. Even if I know that my own role benefits from or suffers from a mass claim, I don't know how scum are going to benefit or how that info might hurt other townies. I think considering your own role without thinking about what other roles might be in the game isn't playing optimally.

But whatever. We play the game differently, that's fine. You've convinced me that your objection wasn't alignment-indicative.

Yeah let's move on.

I've noticed that Dylan has also chimed in on the issue. Hey Dylan, do you feel like also sharing some reads? Do you think Glooble is scummy for voting for me?

I mean, yeah, I had responded to Glooble not getting how scum could benefit first but tried to leave it vague, but since you (faust) and Awaclus already went more in depth, I will too since it seems like Glooble is not getting why this whole thing could be bad. Glooble, it doesn't really have anything to do with what other roles other people might have, its that on average people with roles that would be worse to reveal D1 (like investigative roles and stuff) are more likely to be more strongly against the mass claim, while people with more expendable roles or ones that could actually benefit from being claimed and not countered early (I guess like masons could fit here) might be more open to the idea, even if they don't explicitly support it. Scum could then take people's responses and make more informed guesses about which bucket people might be in when prioritizing the NK and other actions.

So then you are left with town, in order to not leak info like this, being forced to respond completely independently of their role, which--like faust said in his first response to you--would be disingenuous. That's why it's bad; it has nothing to do with your playstyle and how you think as town, but it has everything to do with giving scum potentially useful information.

To faust's question: I don't really think the vote for you was scummy on it's own, but I am leaning scum on Glooble just from the rest of the interaction. I'm sitting down to work right now, so I don't have time to click back to remind myself who said it, but I actually didn't hate the idea that someone that basically copied my opening comment of relief to have IC!MiX could have been scum seeing that as something easy and safe to copy. I'll have more thoughts later.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #179 on: August 24, 2021, 12:13:21 pm »

Let it be known that scum did not read the thread to see if it was safe to say they were relieved to see me as the IC. They simply already know if it's in their wheelhouse as town or not, intrinsically, from their interactions with me in the past.

If anything, it simply replaced what their first post would be had they been town. But that was decided pre-reading the thread.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #180 on: August 24, 2021, 12:18:55 pm »

Vote: Mathdude
I want to see some wagons and the days are short. Plus I just looked through his posts and there's nothing really there... yet.

I don't know Mathdude's meta at all. But I have a vague feeling from skimming some recent games that he's a common D1 mislynch. Am I right or wrong?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #181 on: August 24, 2021, 12:21:29 pm »

Vote: Mathdude
I want to see some wagons and the days are short. Plus I just looked through his posts and there's nothing really there... yet.

I don't know Mathdude's meta at all. But I have a vague feeling from skimming some recent games that he's a common D1 mislynch. Am I right or wrong?

That is right.

So why would you vote for him?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #182 on: August 24, 2021, 12:41:00 pm »

Vote: Mathdude
I want to see some wagons and the days are short. Plus I just looked through his posts and there's nothing really there... yet.

I don't know Mathdude's meta at all. But I have a vague feeling from skimming some recent games that he's a common D1 mislynch. Am I right or wrong?

That is right.

So why would you vote for him?

Hard to choose a vote. I feel that scum is trying to avoid anyone getting more than 1 or 2 votes... taking advantage of the fact that townies are not on the same page about things. I feel that scum don't want wagons D1 that town can look at later and solve the game using. Therefore I want to vote for someone that someone else who is trying hard feels is a good vote as well... especially because no one is interested to join me on voting Awaclus.

In short, I have several weakish town reads, or at least pro town reads. Faust is one of those, mathdude is not one of those... and I'm sheeping faust.

Here's another question. I assume faust knows that Mathdude is a common D1 mislynch. So why would he go there? Isn't faust still considered to be a quite good player?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #183 on: August 24, 2021, 12:56:53 pm »

I was trusting town!e to know what not to say, while challenging a possible scum!e to commit himself further. There was a spate of games some years back where it seemed that people were role-slipping left and right. I think we had a bunch of inexperienced players then, and e does not fit that description.
This post has the same underlying issue that I pointed out above. Basically you're asking town!e to be a bit disingenuous, and thus the answer he gives will likely look scummy no matter his alignment.

I'm not putting him in that position. He put himself there by making the comment. If he wasn't willing or able to elaborate, why say it? Which is what gives the comment itself a scummy feeling.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #184 on: August 24, 2021, 12:58:18 pm »

vote: e
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #185 on: August 24, 2021, 01:30:06 pm »

I will admit I tend to scumread faust almost every game, regardless of which alignment he turns out to be.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #186 on: August 24, 2021, 03:20:14 pm »

vote: e

Now I feel included as well
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #187 on: August 24, 2021, 03:20:33 pm »

The big paragraph posts are intimidating. So many words
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #188 on: August 24, 2021, 03:28:02 pm »

Here's another question. I assume faust knows that Mathdude is a common D1 mislynch. So why would he go there? Isn't faust still considered to be a quite good player?
I don't know why MiX thinks mathdude is a common D1 misexile. (btw we say exile now instead of lynch because the word lynch has a problematic background)

mathdude is a relatively new addition to f.ds mafia, he was misexiled D1 in his first game and not since.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2021, 03:32:15 pm »

Here's another question. I assume faust knows that Mathdude is a common D1 mislynch. So why would he go there? Isn't faust still considered to be a quite good player?
I don't know why MiX thinks mathdude is a common D1 misexile. (btw we say exile now instead of lynch because the word lynch has a problematic background)

mathdude is a relatively new addition to f.ds mafia, he was misexiled D1 in his first game and not since.

Because he was misexiled D1, then died D1, then exiled themselves D1, then lived to endgame, then we exiled them D2 (these last 2 as scum).

For the mathdude games we have, I think that's good enough to say he's a common D1 misexile.

Also I would say it's easy to pick on him with votes.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #190 on: August 24, 2021, 03:42:44 pm »

Here's another question. I assume faust knows that Mathdude is a common D1 mislynch. So why would he go there? Isn't faust still considered to be a quite good player?
I don't know why MiX thinks mathdude is a common D1 misexile. (btw we say exile now instead of lynch because the word lynch has a problematic background)

mathdude is a relatively new addition to f.ds mafia, he was misexiled D1 in his first game and not since.

Because he was misexiled D1, then died D1, then exiled themselves D1, then lived to endgame, then we exiled them D2 (these last 2 as scum).

For the mathdude games we have, I think that's good enough to say he's a common D1 misexile.

Also I would say it's easy to pick on him with votes.
No it's not. The D1 death you mention was not town-induced. A game where he tried to get exiled isn't really relevant in this game, so the only data point we have is a single game.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #191 on: August 24, 2021, 03:44:39 pm »

Here's another question. I assume faust knows that Mathdude is a common D1 mislynch. So why would he go there? Isn't faust still considered to be a quite good player?
I don't know why MiX thinks mathdude is a common D1 misexile. (btw we say exile now instead of lynch because the word lynch has a problematic background)

mathdude is a relatively new addition to f.ds mafia, he was misexiled D1 in his first game and not since.

Because he was misexiled D1, then died D1, then exiled themselves D1, then lived to endgame, then we exiled them D2 (these last 2 as scum).

For the mathdude games we have, I think that's good enough to say he's a common D1 misexile.

Also I would say it's easy to pick on him with votes.
No it's not. The D1 death you mention was not town-induced. A game where he tried to get exiled isn't really relevant in this game, so the only data point we have is a single game.

One game out of one game he was town and could actually have been misexiled D1.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #192 on: August 24, 2021, 04:02:08 pm »

I remember now about exile. I knew that then I forgot! Good call, will adjust.
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Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #193 on: August 24, 2021, 04:42:49 pm »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA (by both me and then himself), and the vote on Swowl, given their previous games together, feels like an intentionally aimed vote to show participation without actually engaging. It has a ďIíve got to make sure I vote Swowl D1 or heíll be suspicious of me for not going at himĒ type vibe, and I could see scum!Didds overlooking the VLA while making sure to get that vote in.

Swowl, can you confirm this is the case?

Ok I am home.
This first because it is at me directly.

Answer is no. Or I mean "no I cannot confirm I think this is what would happen". I get what Galz is saying and if it was like ANYONE other than WCD and myself, it would have merit... but Short answer no.. long answer below.

This is all generalization...
When we are skum together, we try to simulate our buddy buddy normal nature because obvious reasons.
We she is town and I am skum, I lose. I don't know how to play it.
When she is skum and I am town, I am like 50-50 either way. And the only reason I am 50-50 is if she actually makes a mistake. Once I cultivate a town read on her, I am pretty locked in.

When we are both town, we tend to ignore each other until one of us posts "something something... and because I town read WCD/Swowl". Then the other one normally reciprocates, unless a weird ass game where there is a skum read by that point... and then we are hard core buddy buddy until the end.

Its kind of like peacocks or whatever... walk around in circles for a while and then one of them shows all the plumage and then the other peacock either tries to kill it or chill with it. We normally chill.

Now this is my first post back, so I need to kind of read up on the general game state thus far but I will point out two things. One obvious, one not so much.

1) Obvious thing - WCD voted me. A weak vote so meh, but still. This part of the argument I get from Galz... Except different reasoning. Not so much weird because it has a vibe too it, because she would know that she doesn't need to simulate that vibe.... but weird because it breaks the peacock dance ritual.

2) Not so obvious thing - Galz has been in countless games with WCD and myself, so he would know that we generally ignore each other. So making the argument he did, for the REASON he stated... is weird.



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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #194 on: August 24, 2021, 04:53:03 pm »

Starting from when the last player checked in for the first time...


Thank you, and yes. I'm a town  8)

hate the smiley face. personal paranoia, but I thing "I am town" followed by a smiley face is like texting "LOL" at the end of a accusatory or awkward statement. 
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #195 on: August 24, 2021, 04:53:28 pm »

Short days!

@e, what made you think of massclaim, anyway? They are usually disasters for town Day 1.

phishy.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #196 on: August 24, 2021, 04:55:41 pm »

Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.

Mass claim is bad.

A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.

I don't think these are very "bold" assumptions. Maybe replace Tracker with "Tracker/Cop" and then the Vig doesn't like "need to exist. But yeah, we have a start day IC... so just game creation wise, there kind of has to be certain roles for balance in a standard RMM.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #197 on: August 24, 2021, 04:59:37 pm »

who brought up the mass claim orginally?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #198 on: August 24, 2021, 05:00:03 pm »

who brought up the mass claim orginally?

Got it. OK E! also skum points then.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2021, 05:01:11 pm »

who brought up the mass claim orginally?

Got it. OK E! also skum points then.

was gonna post reasons, but pretty much "what faust said".
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #200 on: August 24, 2021, 05:05:18 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #201 on: August 24, 2021, 05:06:48 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?

I mean, it was real, but it was worded in a way where I didn't actually ask for public read lists.

Basically, there was enough content in the thread for people to be able to read everyone (except you), and I wanted to say that I scumread Glooble (and vote them).
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #202 on: August 24, 2021, 05:08:24 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

This is a better justification for Galz' read than previous.
Still think skum WCD would just ignore me here, but I understand better what Galz was getting at.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #203 on: August 24, 2021, 05:08:53 pm »

IC!MiX says: it's time to do your part! I have set up my readlist, have you?

Vote: Glooble

Is this real? Are you actually asking everyone for a reads list?

I mean, it was real, but it was worded in a way where I didn't actually ask for public read lists.

Basically, there was enough content in the thread for people to be able to read everyone (except you), and I wanted to say that I scumread Glooble (and vote them).

cool. was a clarification on the public part.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #204 on: August 24, 2021, 05:11:35 pm »

See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

I'll join the faust wagon, I guess. That's a thing, right?

vote: faust

This doesn't make sense Gloobs. There is an IC. That removes a player from play for investigation roles to have to consider, thus making it more likely to get a result. Also, having the IC publically announced on Day 1 GTDs that either all investigation roles get at least 1 night of info out, or if skum is lucky, we get an IC on day 2 minimum.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #205 on: August 24, 2021, 06:01:35 pm »

(Sorry, no quotes at the moment)...

Iguana, as you stated, you don't know my meta and I don't know yours either. So I guess it makes sense to sheep someone you do know and hope for a newer player who has a short history of usually getting exiled early.  /sarcasm. You say you want more out of me? How about an OMGUS
Vote: Iguana
Better?

And to the others posting about me... thanks for making me feel included! I don't think it really matters how you look at my game history here, whether town games, all games, whatever... I definitely have a pretty good track record of getting killed early. 

The only reason I lasted until endgame in Dwarf mafia was because the game was fully stacked in our favour one Swowl decided to fully trust Didds and me in our QT (and we were both scum).
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #206 on: August 24, 2021, 06:10:20 pm »

Vote Count 1.2.MiX

iguanaiguana (2): pubby, mathdude
2.71828.... (2): Awaclus, EFHW
mathdude (2): faust, iguanaiguana
EFHW (1): 2.71828....
Swowl (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): Galzria
Glooble (1): MiX
faust (1): Glooble

Not voting (2): Swowl, Dylan32

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time (that is in 49 hours).
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #207 on: August 24, 2021, 06:13:46 pm »

If at any point in time you feel like you have nothing to do in this game and you're itching to be useful, take a look at Glooble, and talk about your read on him. I think that would be helpful.

That includes Glooble. Lol.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #208 on: August 24, 2021, 07:32:44 pm »

Geez, Swowl. I ❤️ you so much. We are peacocks!

So I was saying hey and I missed you, and I voted because I hadnít voted for anyone and Joth had just announced the five day days. But I was never gonna exile you D1.

I think it is super weird that Galz decided to characterize the lack of  behavior that I donít usually exhibit was scummy. And he said I was doing it to look like I was engaging in the game, but heís actually done something far more hollow than he accused me of. Itís weird.

To your questions, MiXÖ. Iíve had a hard time getting into things in the last 24 hours because Glooble and faust essenatilly turned an off hand comment by e about massclaiming into a pretty deep tangent that mimic the kind of set-up talk that makes me glaze over. When I cast back, I think Glooble comes from scummier than faust in that exchange.

I will vote: Glooble for now
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #209 on: August 24, 2021, 07:34:17 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

This is a better justification for Galz' read than previous.
Still think skum WCD would just ignore me here, but I understand better what Galz was getting at.

YeahÖif I was scum I would ignore you completely. The risk of messing up is too great.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #210 on: August 24, 2021, 08:18:25 pm »

Do WCD and Swowl know each other IRL or something like that? I'm fairly confused about it all.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2021, 08:23:16 pm »

Mathdude, it's a little helpful TBH because you posted something substantial so you moved out of the total nothing category but it doesn't help much because now I only know your read on me... which is like, meh, doesn't tell me a ton.

Two questions:

1) Can you share your read/vibe on at least one other person?
2) What about me made you want to vote me? Just the fact that I voted you or something else also?
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2021, 08:57:57 pm »

Starting from when the last player checked in for the first time...


Thank you, and yes. I'm a town  8)

hate the smiley face. personal paranoia, but I thing "I am town" followed by a smiley face is like texting "LOL" at the end of a accusatory or awkward statement.

I used to use that emoticon a lot (it's gotten me exiled at least twice) so I sorta used it for old times sake.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2021, 10:26:20 pm »

Do WCD and Swowl know each other IRL or something like that? I'm fairly confused about it all.

NahÖ about a year and a half ago or so we were a third party in game with daychat so we talked a lot. It was a crazy game, and we were in it until the endÖso there was just this epic qt. And, you know me, so not only did we talk a lot of strategy but I also have all kinds of life questions so now we are more known to one another than most people. I have played quite a bit of drunk mafia pre-pandemic with MiX, Swowl, Joth, and GalzÖand lots of quick games with them (and faust) on Jimmmmmís website. So, itís just familiarity.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #214 on: August 24, 2021, 10:43:02 pm »

I've been somewhat suspicious of glooble. Their first few posts were terse and seemed like they were just going through the motions. Then they jump into an argument with faust, acting defensively when the actual topic of discussion didn't require it.

But for now I'm fine with parking my vote on iguana. Swowl I read as town.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #215 on: August 24, 2021, 11:58:00 pm »

What was the last game you didnít have a QT with Swowl, that he didnít host (which you would still have a QT with him inÖ)?

Iím not saying you donít have one here, I have no idea, but the odds are generally against it and your vote felt like fake interaction, especially because of the stated VLA.

What does the QT have to do with anything? Can you elaborate?

My point was that WCD is someone that I believe seeks interactions. Those two in particular have had a QT in literally every game for like... the last 10 or so. Assuming they don't have one here, that would be really weird for them, and so with WCD in particular, I think she'll seek out that interaction more within the game thread (compared to just ignoring the fact). If WCD is town, I would've expected more of a "Swowl, come back from camping, we miss you!!!". Hell, I would've expected her to call out how sad she was that she didn't get to talk with him in a QT. The vote felt like an opportunistic way of creating that general interaction. I think that's more likely to come from scum WCD than town WCD.

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA
I think that sort of thing is quite the stretch. My default assumption is that scum pays more attention to the game, not less.

Why are you generalizing scum play as a whole? I agree that, generally speaking, scum pays more attention to the game, not less. I disagree strongly when that statement is made about WCD. Or rather, I think that scum!WCD is much more likely to force something than town!WCD, which will often cause her to overlook things that she might not have otherwise.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2021, 12:46:58 am »

I think scum!Didds is more likely to forget Swowl was posted VLA
I think that sort of thing is quite the stretch. My default assumption is that scum pays more attention to the game, not less.

Why are you generalizing scum play as a whole? I agree that, generally speaking, scum pays more attention to the game, not less. I disagree strongly when that statement is made about WCD. Or rather, I think that scum!WCD is much more likely to force something than town!WCD, which will often cause her to overlook things that she might not have otherwise.
It wasn't clear to me that your argument hinger on Didds' scum meta in particular. It makes more sense now, though I don't think I agree that Didds is scum.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2021, 12:54:07 am »

If at any point in time you feel like you have nothing to do in this game and you're itching to be useful, take a look at Glooble, and talk about your read on him. I think that would be helpful.

That includes Glooble. Lol.

Okie dokie.
First off... 7 total posts... so.... not really a lot to go off of here. But...

1.
Hello everyone!
Not a lot to speculate on really. So...
vote: Dylan32 I guess. Since I won't get to day 1 policy exile you in BSG, RVS is the next best thing.
Ok.. RVS whatever.

2.
Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan.
Getting some wagons started early is a good plan.
vote: pubby for reasons.
Day 1 mass claim is a bad plan. Wagons are good. Would like to know the pubby reasons though as they had almost literally done nothing so far in the game.

3.
Hypothetically, if we mass claim, then scum knows who is the doctor to roleblock and who is the tracker to shoot D1 and who is the vigilante to redirect onto the IC and we're screwed. We never get to catch scum out on their lying D1 claims because they know all of our powers and how to thwart them while we still know nothing real about them.
Mass claim is bad.
A lot of assumptions (knowledge?) about what powers scum has here; probably means nothing, but I wanted to note it for later just in case. Besides that, I agree.
I think this post from Dylan is a little bit scummy. It seems disingenuous to me. Iguana is clearly using hypothetical examples to make a point, and implying that he's somehow letting his secret setup knowledge slip is... weird.
I kind of have to agree with Glooble actually. I read II's comment as hypothetical train of thought as well. Kind of hard not to. I guess maybe a little shade casting, but also I agree with him so...

4.
See, I told you all advocating for a mass claim would be silly
I would make a comment about you are conveniently trying to absolve yourself from responsibility for what you posted, but first I am going to wait and see how this post is received.

Also, what exactly do you think I should be taking responsibility for?
Floating the idea of a massclaim, which usually leads to nothing could but can have the effect of people revealing information about their roles.

I also think this post from faust is a little off. The idea of a day one mass claim is so against the grain that nobody is going to say "ooh, great idea! I'm the cop!" without coming to a group consensus. I fail to see how e's suggestion could have led to anyone leaking information about their roles.

I'll join the faust wagon, I guess. That's a thing, right?

vote: faust
K this one hits a note though. Glooble thinks day 1 mass claims are bad. Cool. However, one of the reasons day 1 mass claims are bad is for sure not just the claim itself, but what faust said about leaking information. Weird to agree but also go after faust here.

5.

One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Fair defense enough of their reasoning. Does no good to back up why they would find faust skummy though I suppose.

6.

One might counter this by saying "well town should just answer without regard for their role". Which is saying, town should be disingenuous and do the thing that scum is also trying to do. This causes town to behave in a scum-like manner and thus muddies the water for scumhunting.

I don't personally think my opinion on a particular strategy is affected in anyway whatsoever by my current role. I would always think about it in the context of any roles that could theoretically be in the game, and I would expect the same of any town player. I don't see how that's disingenuous.
Seems strange not to take knowledge into account. You could have a role that says "if you target the Tracker, town wins". Surely that would influence your opinion on claiming. That is a ridiculously extreme example, but any role has a preference on knowing/not knowing roles to a lesser extent. If you don't take into account the knowledge that you have then you're not playing optimally.

I disagree. Even if I know that my own role benefits from or suffers from a mass claim, I don't know how scum are going to benefit or how that info might hurt other townies. I think considering your own role without thinking about what other roles might be in the game isn't playing optimally.

But whatever. We play the game differently, that's fine. You've convinced me that your objection wasn't alignment-indicative.
So IDK what it is I am looking for here... like at all in the re read... but I guess the back peddling could be due to heat. Other than that chance, nothing stands out here.

7.
I will admit I tend to scumread faust almost every game, regardless of which alignment he turns out to be.
Meh. Kind of hard for me to say that this is just creating an open door policy based on meta when I just did the "same/reverse" thing with WCD. But I could see how it comes off as that.


Yeah... nothing standing out crazy here to me. What are people seeing that I am not?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2021, 01:04:44 am »

@ glooble - what were in fact your reasons for voting pubby when you did?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #219 on: August 25, 2021, 01:07:56 am »

This is the skummiest post of the game so far:

*snipped*
I had a whole lot more free time to start that game up with my wife and kids in vacation before I could get it to join them, so my activity level was inflated over "normal"
Also, not quite sure how to jump in here. I am on the verge of advocating a D1 mass claim, but know that would be foolish and just get me exiled

So I will
Vote: E!
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #220 on: August 25, 2021, 01:43:15 am »

Mathdude, it's a little helpful TBH because you posted something substantial so you moved out of the total nothing category but it doesn't help much because now I only know your read on me... which is like, meh, doesn't tell me a ton.

Two questions:

1) Can you share your read/vibe on at least one other person?
2) What about me made you want to vote me? Just the fact that I voted you or something else also?

Unvote

2. For now, it was mainly an OMGUS vote, as stated. I also tend to poke people with votes once in a while (mainly early game) to test for reasons.

1. I'm getting a Townie vibe from MiX!!! Just kidding... he still sounds scummy to me, but I know he's not (as per mod confirmation).

Really though, in my few short games, I've found I will typically think certain people are scummy, regardless of their alignment - MiX, faust, ashersky (not in this game), and probably e (though I think I've only played 1 other game with them). My initial read of your first few posts tells me you will probably land on this list too.

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people. At this point in the game, I'm not saying I think someone on the list is scum (even if I find some of their posts scummy), but I'm also not saying I give any of them a town pass just based on the fact that I can find them scummy when they are town, since they still might be scum... well, okay, I'll give MiX a town pass.

Did I actually answer your Q1? Not really. I gave my bias on reads. I'll let you know shortly if I see anything i think could be useful on a quick rescan.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #221 on: August 25, 2021, 02:07:02 am »

Okay, quick skim done. The two I'm most suspicious of at the moment are e and Awaclus. For e, it wasn't even really the massclaim comment or following discussion... it was the first post, saying he'll sheep (Awaclus, was it?) then just votes faust. For Awa, many of his posts feel off... short, just throwing stuff out there, not much reasoning for most of them.

If I had to trust someone at the moment, other than IC!MiX, it would probably be Swowl. He has come back interested in the game, asking relevant questions, trying to figure stuff out.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #222 on: August 25, 2021, 02:25:00 am »

For Awa, many of his posts feel off... short, just throwing stuff out there, not much reasoning for most of them.

I have mostly been assuming that the reasoning would be obvious, but if something is not clear, I can explain it in more detail (as long as it doesn't include any information I would rather not share).

He has come back interested in the game, asking relevant questions, trying to figure stuff out.

Scum does all of that in an RMM.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #223 on: August 25, 2021, 02:38:25 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #224 on: August 25, 2021, 03:26:57 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.

"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:

Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember.  Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful?  If not, Iíd lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.

I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #225 on: August 25, 2021, 03:35:22 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.

"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:

Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember.  Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful?  If not, Iíd lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.

I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.

Never said you were or were not. Simply said my perception. That is my own, and is independent of however you view yourself, your actions and your play style.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #226 on: August 25, 2021, 03:41:57 am »

Vote: Swowl
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #227 on: August 25, 2021, 04:25:55 am »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.

"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:

Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember.  Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful?  If not, Iíd lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.

I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.

It's a meme because of 1 or 2 scum games where you have been very helpful and also stomped town.

I don't think it's outrageous to say it's alignment indicative.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #228 on: August 25, 2021, 04:38:49 am »

It's not alignment indicative, it's just indicative of people not understanding Awaclus' playstyle.

When it comes to general theory/meta questions, Awaclus has always been forthcoming. It's just his reads that he plays close to his chest. A lot of people seem to lump it all together, assume Awaclus isn't willing to answer any questions, and then get surprised when he does. But nothing about his playstyle here is actually different.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #229 on: August 25, 2021, 04:52:40 am »

It's a meme because of 1 or 2 scum games where you have been very helpful and also stomped town.

But the fact that people keep saying it disproves it. I can't usually be more helpful than usual, but someone usually says it.

I don't think it's outrageous to say it's alignment indicative.

It's obviously not alignment indicative, I'm town most of the time when people say that.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #230 on: August 25, 2021, 04:55:45 am »

I don't think it's outrageous to say it's alignment indicative.

It's obviously not alignment indicative, I'm town most of the time when people say that.
That's not a good argument though, if something happens in the majority of your town games but all of your scum games then it's still alignment indicative.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #231 on: August 25, 2021, 04:56:45 am »

Can we now have a Swowl wagon please?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #232 on: August 25, 2021, 06:08:36 am »

Can we now have a Swowl wagon please?

Reasons?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #233 on: August 25, 2021, 06:26:20 am »

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #234 on: August 25, 2021, 06:27:41 am »

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #235 on: August 25, 2021, 06:28:34 am »

Can we now have a Swowl wagon please?

Reasons?
Yes!

It wasn't a yes or no question.
It is with the right interpretation. It's just one word, after all. I chose to read it as "Do you have reasons?"
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #236 on: August 25, 2021, 06:30:33 am »

That was not the right interpretation. "Reasons?" is much more likely to mean "Reasons please?" which is asking for said reasons, not asking if they exist.

Also, what reasons do you have to want a Swowl wagon?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #237 on: August 25, 2021, 06:34:24 am »

Sure, we can have one.

Vote: Swowl
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #238 on: August 25, 2021, 06:36:02 am »

That was not the right interpretation. "Reasons?" is much more likely to mean "Reasons please?" which is asking for said reasons, not asking if they exist.

Also, what reasons do you have to want a Swowl wagon?
I have to say you talk less like an Innocent Child and more like an Innocent Boomer.

Here, I'll spell it out for you: I don't want to share my reasons right now. Other than saying we haven't had a proper wagon this game and it would sure be nice to have one before the Day ends.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #239 on: August 25, 2021, 06:38:11 am »

we haven't had a proper wagon this game and it would sure be nice to have one before the Day ends.

We can make a wagon. Would you rather we build it on Awaclus, e, or you?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #240 on: August 25, 2021, 06:50:06 am »

Vote: faust

I highly recommend a Glooble wagon too.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #241 on: August 25, 2021, 06:51:58 am »

Vote: Glooble
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #242 on: August 25, 2021, 06:55:49 am »

Other than saying we haven't had a proper wagon this game and it would sure be nice to have one before the Day ends.

That's not true though. We have had a wagon on e. I'm not sure how many people were voting for him and I can't check right now but I'm pretty sure it was like at least 3-4.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #243 on: August 25, 2021, 07:00:29 am »

we haven't had a proper wagon this game and it would sure be nice to have one before the Day ends.

We can make a wagon. Would you rather we build it on Awaclus, e, or you?
I mean, out of these options... Awaclus. But we don't need to restrict ourselves to this bad pool.
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #244 on: August 25, 2021, 07:05:17 am »

Other than saying we haven't had a proper wagon this game and it would sure be nice to have one before the Day ends.

That's not true though. We have had a wagon on e. I'm not sure how many people were voting for him and I can't check right now but I'm pretty sure it was like at least 3-4.
You are right that that many people have voted for e in total, but as far as I can tell from skimming, it was never more than 2 at the same time, so I wouldn't count that as a wagon.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #245 on: August 25, 2021, 07:22:39 am »

@ glooble - what were in fact your reasons for voting pubby when you did?

Wanted to vote for someone who already had a vote on them in the hope of starting a wagon. Why pubby specifically of those options? That I won't say.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #246 on: August 25, 2021, 07:23:41 am »

Vote: Glooble

This is a bad way to go today.

What exactly have I been doing today that isn't consistent with my normal day 1 playstyle?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #247 on: August 25, 2021, 07:26:09 am »

Vote: Glooble

This is a bad way to go today.

What exactly have I been doing today that isn't consistent with my normal day 1 playstyle?

Not explained anything you've done this game, for example.

I would love to know more of what you've done that says you're town this game though.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #248 on: August 25, 2021, 07:29:22 am »

Vote: Glooble

This is a bad way to go today.

What exactly have I been doing today that isn't consistent with my normal day 1 playstyle?

Not explained anything you've done this game, for example.

I would love to know more of what you've done that says you're town this game though.

That's not how the burden of proof works, and you know it.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #249 on: August 25, 2021, 07:31:39 am »

I don't care about burden of proof, I would just like for you to talk about your play, posts and decisions this day.

You know I'm town. Now, it's time for me to know you're town.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #250 on: August 25, 2021, 07:33:23 am »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.

After that I highlighted two posts that felt a little off to me in the hopes of spurring discussion. I honestly expected more people to agree with me about faust, but apparently this is an area where I differ from most of the players on this forum so that ended up leading no where. Other than that all I've done is try to defend myself.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #251 on: August 25, 2021, 07:34:44 am »

If I were scum, this is where I would be focusing on deflecting the conversation to someone else, but I'm, not doing that because, as I said, I don't have any strong scrumreads.
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #252 on: August 25, 2021, 07:35:56 am »

If I were scum, this is where I would be focusing on deflecting the conversation to someone else, but I'm, not doing that because, as I said, I don't have any strong scrumreads.

Well, this is true, at least.

Do you have weak scumreads?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #253 on: August 25, 2021, 08:22:00 am »

Faust, though its just a gut feeling. Maybe Dylan. I will read the thread again this morning and see if I can see the Swowl logic.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #254 on: August 25, 2021, 08:44:27 am »

That was not the right interpretation. "Reasons?" is much more likely to mean "Reasons please?" which is asking for said reasons, not asking if they exist.

Also, what reasons do you have to want a Swowl wagon?

This
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #255 on: August 25, 2021, 09:31:34 am »

A pink bubble appears in the distance. As it fades away, there stands Glinda the Good Witch.

"Oh Munchkins" she says, "while you continue your investigation, I think our new friend Dorothy and her little dog should follow the Yellow Brick road to the Emerald City! There, the Wizard of Oz lives and he can answer all her questions, and also help her get home to Kansas!"

"Suits me" says Dorothy, and sets out on the yellow path.

"But first," says Glinda, "Why don't you take that dead lady's shoes for yourself? Look how shiny they are!"

"Ok," says Dorothy, and everyone pretends it makes sense.



Vote Count 1.3

Swowl (2): faust, Awaclus
Glooble (2): MiX, WestCoastDidds
2.71828.... (2): EFHW, Swowl
iguanaiguana (1): pubby
EFHW (1): 2.71828....
WestCoastDidds (1): Galzria
faust (1): Glooble
mathdude (1): iguanaiguana

Not voting (2): Dylan32, mathdude

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends at 7 pm on Thursday, forum time.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 09:45:39 am by jotheonah »
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #256 on: August 25, 2021, 09:34:31 am »

Not voting (5): Dylan32, mathdude

[X] Doubt
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #257 on: August 25, 2021, 09:46:24 am »

Not voting (5): Dylan32, mathdude

[X] Doubt

Obviously there are three secret nonvoters, a new mechanic I'm very excited about debuting. /s
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MiX

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #258 on: August 25, 2021, 10:05:38 am »

Not voting (5): Dylan32, mathdude

[X] Doubt

Obviously there are three secret nonvoters, a new mechanic I'm very excited about debuting. /s

Oh no, the cylons are back.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #259 on: August 25, 2021, 10:18:28 am »

Not voting (5): Dylan32, mathdude

[X] Doubt

Obviously there are three secret nonvoters, a new mechanic I'm very excited about debuting. /s

Oh no, the cylons are back.

Th Tin Man was an early prototype.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #260 on: August 25, 2021, 12:31:38 pm »

Vote: WestCoastDidds

I want a wagon, so I sorta hate to not join one of the 2 people options... But, this is where my reads point me right now.

-snip-
YeahÖif I was scum I would ignore you completely. The risk of messing up is too great.

Possibly a scummy comment? Would scum!Didds really completely ignore Swowl? Probably not. To me "If I did it" type comments can be a weak scumtell.

-snip-
unless something really dramatic happens in the next three days, I will probably advocate for no exile because a good Ďole Joth RMM is going to have night powers that are more interesting and important than what weíre doing D1.
-snip-

Advocating for D1 no exile is scummy IMO. Especially from someone who's been actively playing for threeish years. 

-snip-
 Iíve had a hard time getting into things in the last 24 hours because Glooble and faust essenatilly turned an off hand comment by e about massclaiming into a pretty deep tangent that mimic the kind of set-up talk that makes me glaze over. When I cast back, I think Glooble comes from scummier than faust in that exchange.

I will vote: Glooble for now

This is WCD's only so far comment of scumhunting. I actually think she mischaracterizes Glooble's position in that discussion. I couldn't describe Glooble's posts as going into a 'pretty deep tangent' although maybe faust does that along with some other people. So the fact that that's her basis for voting Glooble seems artificial. It also contradicts her previous stated desire to no exile.
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Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #261 on: August 25, 2021, 12:37:01 pm »

Also... the timing of WCD's vote of Glooble. She votes him 1.5 hours after the IC!MiX posts for everyone in the thread to inspect Glooble. So... it feels like an easy time to jump in with a vote on Glooble with some confidence others could be following behind.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #262 on: August 25, 2021, 01:08:41 pm »

My perception of Awaclus this game is that his posts are generally more helpful than they usually seem to be. That is, they appear to be furthering a more visible agenda than normal (whereas he seems to normally play a less public game).

As heís usually town this could indicate that heís scum here - but Iím not yet willing to scum read him for play that I personally find more helpful.

I 100% agree with this
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #263 on: August 25, 2021, 01:09:33 pm »

It's not alignment indicative, it's just indicative of people not understanding Awaclus' playstyle.

When it comes to general theory/meta questions, Awaclus has always been forthcoming. It's just his reads that he plays close to his chest. A lot of people seem to lump it all together, assume Awaclus isn't willing to answer any questions, and then get surprised when he does. But nothing about his playstyle here is actually different.

And also with this
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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #264 on: August 25, 2021, 01:31:03 pm »

What? These two posts are contradictory; you're not allowed to agree with both!
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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #265 on: August 25, 2021, 01:32:13 pm »

I'll get on the Didds wagon. It's a better case than any of the other ones I've seen.

vote: WestCoastDidds
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #266 on: August 25, 2021, 01:35:21 pm »

Vote: WestCoastDidds

I want a wagon, so I sorta hate to not join one of the 2 people options... But, this is where my reads point me right now.

-snip-
YeahÖif I was scum I would ignore you completely. The risk of messing up is too great.

Possibly a scummy comment? Would scum!Didds really completely ignore Swowl? Probably not. To me "If I did it" type comments can be a weak scumtell.

-snip-
unless something really dramatic happens in the next three days, I will probably advocate for no exile because a good Ďole Joth RMM is going to have night powers that are more interesting and important than what weíre doing D1.
-snip-

Advocating for D1 no exile is scummy IMO. Especially from someone who's been actively playing for threeish years. 

-snip-
 Iíve had a hard time getting into things in the last 24 hours because Glooble and faust essenatilly turned an off hand comment by e about massclaiming into a pretty deep tangent that mimic the kind of set-up talk that makes me glaze over. When I cast back, I think Glooble comes from scummier than faust in that exchange.

I will vote: Glooble for now

This is WCD's only so far comment of scumhunting. I actually think she mischaracterizes Glooble's position in that discussion. I couldn't describe Glooble's posts as going into a 'pretty deep tangent' although maybe faust does that along with some other people. So the fact that that's her basis for voting Glooble seems artificial. It also contradicts her previous stated desire to no exile.

Your first point that "If I did" comments are scummy. I disagree. Swowl is one of the two people who read me best. Saying what I would do is based enirely on what I have done.  But that is also a belief thing and I won't say anything to change your mind... but you should also recognize it is a belief thing and not based in any evidence of my scum behavior.

Your second point is that no exile is scummy.  No, no it is not.  Shraye has fully coverted me on this although i am not as committed to the idea as he is. Town lost a whole bunch of games in the last year because we had too many misexiles. There is a whole MiX rant about it somewhere.  It is very bad for us when we misexile, especially in games when there may be a third party.  In a normal game, even a misexile is valuable because we learn something from the wagon and the flip. That is still true in an RMM, but less so because of the myriad roles and powers that go with them.  In my comment I said that this was the reason and I also said that I was not yet at the point of advocating no exile. So, you are misconstruing my intent.  But mostly I just think you are wrong if you are willing to suck up a misexile.

Third point.... I am not mischaracterizing Globble's position. How much he was responsible for the extended discussion of massclaiming, on teh other hand, is arguable and a difference in perception.  He does get some credit for recognizing that it needed to end, but it still sucked up most of yesterday. I was particularly frustrated by it, but that is just me.  I think the IC wants to see a Glooble wagon. There could be lots of reasons for that. I'm not going to ask.  Do I see a scenario where he is scum? Yes. Do I want to let MiX gather whatever intel he's looking to gather? Yes. That is not opportunistic. 


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faust

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #267 on: August 25, 2021, 01:40:32 pm »

Third point.... I am not mischaracterizing Globble's position. How much he was responsible for the extended discussion of massclaiming, on teh other hand, is arguable and a difference in perception.  He does get some credit for recognizing that it needed to end, but it still sucked up most of yesterday. I was particularly frustrated by it, but that is just me.
This is not a fair characterization. Glooble and I having a conversation does not prevent anyone from talking about other stuff. If nothing else got discussed on that day, that is on everyone, not just on Glooble and me.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #268 on: August 25, 2021, 01:41:12 pm »

Forum posting is asynchronous. Any number of people could have had any number of conversations about anything else while faust and I were having our tete-e-tete. We were not "sucking up" anything. Had we not had that conversation, there would simply have been fewer posts. There's no reason to think they would have been replaced with more substantive ones.

PPE: faust said exactly the same thing
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #269 on: August 25, 2021, 01:43:32 pm »

What? These two posts are contradictory; you're not allowed to agree with both!

I agree with Galzy that Awaclus seems more helpful than usual, and that i like it.

I agree with you that folks do not often understand Awa's playstyle and that he is often more helpful than we give him credit for, but because he keeps his reasons close to the vest it can get frustrating.

Finally, I agree with you and with Awa that his play has been like his (more helpful) recently.

I don't see those as contradictory. Awa can be enigmatic. That can be frustrating. But he has always answered questions about anything that aren't his reads (his favorite animals are spiders!) and he has been more forthcoming in recent years than in the past but its easy to keep the old perception that was a product of being frustrated.

PPE: 2
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #270 on: August 25, 2021, 01:47:07 pm »

Third point.... I am not mischaracterizing Globble's position. How much he was responsible for the extended discussion of massclaiming, on teh other hand, is arguable and a difference in perception.  He does get some credit for recognizing that it needed to end, but it still sucked up most of yesterday. I was particularly frustrated by it, but that is just me.
This is not a fair characterization. Glooble and I having a conversation does not prevent anyone from talking about other stuff. If nothing else got discussed on that day, that is on everyone, not just on Glooble and me.

Absolutely, and i don't mean to imply that it did. My original comment that iguana snipped was that I was having a hard time engaging yesterday because it felt to me that we were in set-up talk and that is hard to me to grok.

Apologies to you and Glooble if I sounded judgy. That wasn't my intent. I was trying to speak to wh I hadn't engaged with that discussion. I was obviously having a conversation with Glaz about Swowl's VLA and with iguana about Swowl during that time, so clearly it is possible for other people to talk.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #271 on: August 25, 2021, 01:49:59 pm »

Forum posting is asynchronous. Any number of people could have had any number of conversations about anything else while faust and I were having our tete-e-tete. We were not "sucking up" anything. Had we not had that conversation, there would simply have been fewer posts. There's no reason to think they would have been replaced with more substantive ones.

PPE: faust said exactly the same thing

Again, I apologize. I wasn't trying to say that you were responsible for stifling conversation. I was talking about my limitations.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #272 on: August 25, 2021, 01:57:56 pm »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.


Prior to you moving your vote to pubby for "reasons" he had the following posts:

1. "vote iguanaiguana"
2. "I don't think we are in kansas anymore"

what possible read could you get out of that?
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #273 on: August 25, 2021, 02:00:42 pm »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.


Prior to you moving your vote to pubby for "reasons" he had the following posts:

1. "vote iguanaiguana"
2. "I don't think we are in kansas anymore"

what possible read could you get out of that?

Ok, now this? This is actually rolefishing.
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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #274 on: August 25, 2021, 02:01:42 pm »

The reasons were admittedly very flimsy, but its not pro-town to keep pushing me for them.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

He/ Him

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Galzria

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #275 on: August 25, 2021, 02:03:57 pm »

On WCD. Happy with WCD. Would also vote:

Dylan, EFHW, Glooble, e, pubby

Would have to stretch to get to:

Mathdude, iguana

Probably not interested in:

faust, Awaclus, Swowl
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM60: Wizard of Oz Mafia
« Reply #276 on: August 25, 2021, 02:05:13 pm »

I'm never useful day 1. I usually can't develop scumreads this early. I voted for pubby in the hopes of starting a pubby wagon not because I necessarily thought he was scum, but because I thought he might be scum and it might provide useful interactions. I also had a reason for thinking he was a teensy bit more likely to be scum than others who already had votes on them, and I wam not interested in sharing that reason atm.


Prior to you moving your vote to pubby for "reasons" he had the following posts:

1. "vote iguanaiguana"
2. "I don't think we are in kansas anymore"

what possible read could you get out of that?

Ok, now this? This is actually rolefishing.

I don't follow. How is that rolefishing?
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Swowl

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