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[Glooble]

Could I please get a vote count?

Didds, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

[Jimmmmm]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

[hypercube]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

You're insistent that most things that joth pointed out as defences aren't defences, which is the scum way to rationalize it (especially if they weren't intended as such). A town player would be able to admit that they were defending their townreads to some extent, and using those townreads to help figure out the game.

Then, you point out that joth missed your post where you explain you'd be asleep by deadline. Jumping to "this is a huge misrepresentation" instead of "this is a mistake you made" is certainly something I'd be more likely to do as scum (that's how Didds caught me in M119).

[MiX]

Could I please get a vote count?

Didds, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

If I were scum, I would've known who the mysterious informant is based on this question.

[Jimmmmm]

joth's case on Jimmmmm isn't amazing, but being extra prickly about people accusing you of defending scum, and about people not reading your posts carefully enough are pretty significant scumtells to me.

Where was I extra prickly?

You're insistent that most things that joth pointed out as defences aren't defences, which is the scum way to rationalize it (especially if they weren't intended as such). A town player would be able to admit that they were defending their townreads to some extent, and using those townreads to help figure out the game.

A Town player would admit they were defending their Townreads if that's what they were doing. At which points do you believe it was my intent to defend her?

Then, you point out that joth missed your post where you explain you'd be asleep by deadline. Jumping to "this is a huge misrepresentation" instead of "this is a mistake you made" is certainly something I'd be more likely to do as scum (that's how Didds caught me in M119).

I maintain that I was misrepresented. Actually I think most or all of the points misrepresented me pretty badly, to an extent that I'm not sure scum would go, at least intentionally.

[hypercube]

Thoughts from rereading cayvie:

Seems like you're playing to survive

Mix I feel like you're planning to get wagoned today, survive the wagon, and then not get nightkilled because you feel you've been the right amount of obvscum.

She calls out MiX for self-preservation early.

i dont think skydancers should claim bc we dont want to out our watchers. i dont think edgedancers should claim bc we don't want to out our doctors.

Possibly this was a skybreaker slip that scum picked up on? I could see them being afraid of that role. As noted before she questions Dylan on his claim a fair amount.

im wondering what the key difference between EFHW's and chairs's reactions is here? why is one "exactly the reaction scum would have" and the other doesn't ping your radar?

Pushes joth a bit here.

mmm vote: GreatHallScout

this feels like a faked readlist

Gets the GHS wagon rolling here.

Players are ordered within tiers.

Strong scumreads on EFHW, faust, and GHS.

But right now, I think we should just Lynch Eddie. Don't want a traitor joining scum. Feels like we'll have to lunch him eventually anyway so why not now?

She doesn't trust Eddie and seems convinced he's a survivor at best or traitor at worst.

After that she works hard to push the GHS wagon and then switches to EFHW. I'm pretty happy with my GHS vote after all this, it certainly seems like a scumteam with him on it could have killed her over her reads.

PPE Jimmmmm, I need to go to lunch now, I'll get back to you after.

[MiX]

I would've definitely NKd cayvie if I could. Correctly calling me a survivor is a towntell, I'm sad my biggest townread died. I couldn't say I was reading her as town before the third-party claim, but well that doesn't matter anymore.

She was also really against EFHW to the point where I think that alone could've killed her. I don't think Hall is scum based on NK analysis.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didd's, would I be right if I guessed that you know who my mysterious informant is?

Alas, no

[Jimmmmm]

scolapasta

talk to me, scola: gun to head, who are your top ~4 picks for mafia?

Well, clearly MiX. Possibly also faust and GHS? I don't know, even with all the chatter, I have yet to feel super strong on D1.

(I am concerned about misreading both MiX and faust, as I know their styles of play do lead to misreads)

I'm not super interested in most of scola's early posts about MiX (especially after the 3rd-party claim), and related setup discussions. I do think it's noteworthy that despite admitting that these are not super strong reads, he sticks with them for a relatively long time, and through catching up and increasing his activity.

OK, moving on, as we are 2+ hours from DL.

I had been leaning EFHW vs cube on the wagons (and may still get there), but I do like the idea of

vote: faust

So will second that one and see if others join in. If it doesn't build enough within the hour, will revisit my vote. I should be around for DL, assuming no work thing comes up.

Indicates leaning EFHW over cube but votes faust.

Re: GHS - I could get on board, but I don't think that builds like faust could.

Can we get 5 more for faust? Is anyone currently on EFHW willing to consider faust? If not, we'd need all 5 others:

Dylan
Rhand
joth
GHS
Gloobie

Campaigning for lynching faust over EFHW.

I’m just gonna say it because I keep talking around it and for mafia it’s probably obvious by now.

I am a windrunner. I confirm the bodyguard.
That means 3 watcher / roleblock combo’s in town.
And rolestopper is a mafia ability.

If there are in fact 3 windrunners, at least one has to be scum, no?

Though one or more of the windrunners may be lying? I don't see that though, since if one of cube/faust is twon that doesn't work. This could be a confirmation lie, but also seems risky.

i.e. I'm believing there are 3 and feeling pretty good about my faust vote.

I don't like these kinds of assumptions. Town has no reason to make them but they can be handy for scum, say if they have no Windrunners.

scolacounta 1.1:

chairs (1): Dylan32
hypercube (21): Rhand, jotheonah
EFHW ( 8 ): faust, Uncleeurope, Jimmmmm, LaLight, WestCoastDidds, chairs, hypercube, MiX {L-2}
Galzria (1): GreathallScout
faust (56): scolapasta, EFHW, Galzria, cayvie, Swowl, joth

Not Voting (1): Glooble


Stated willingness:
faust (3): MiX, Gloobie, Dylan
EFHW (1): Dylan

so faust and EFHW both effectively al L-1

Despite claiming willingness to lynch EFHW both before and after this, does not add himself to the "willing to lynch EFHW" category. The purpose of this post seems to be simply to push the viability of a faust lynch.

So I am hopeful EFHW is scum. She was on my radar, I just didn't think it was as strong a vote as faust, because I do thinkit's likely at least one of the Windrunnners is scum (I have not played enough games with this group to know how much this would or would not be randomized), because Windrunners have good scum powers. With that I thought the squire was a better choice than the others.

Oh man, this post. Saying "I am hopeful EFHW is scum. She was on my radar" post-hammer sets off all kinds of alarm bells.

The anti-conspiracy-theory side of me suggests that this is too obvious, but if you're looking for someone who tried to stop the EFHW lynch while acting like they were okay with it, surely scola is the number one contender.

hey guys, if no one redirected me, scola is town. not claiming anything else.

Can confirm, am town. Eddie if you want to convey anything from me to Gloobie, let me know.

So obviously this is a spanner in the works for where this re-read is clearly heading. I'll re-read LL next to help figure out what I think of this.

Eddie, do you believe that I'm town? If so want to have a neighborhood with me and share any goodies?

Refusing to listen? I'm not sure I got that, I just wondered if you were yet convinced I was town, based on your reads, that LaLight's claim I am town.

I do think if we could figure out some other pseudo-ICs and connect them to Gloobie, so he can have a neighborhood (via eddie, e.g.) with them that would be good for town.

If you don't believe me yet, no worries.

Why so keen to be a pseudo-IC?

I have additional evidence to suggest that faust is town.

Care to reveal or is it better to hold on to for now?

All I can say is there is a player with an investigative power who investigated faust and found him to be town, and said player found a way to transmit that information to me so as to share the result without outing themself. The player could be lying, but I trust them. Faust could have been alignment inverted, but its not terribly likely.

Got it. This pleases me. I'm willing to accept that faust is town.

so cube > rhand > faust

Still waiting to find out why LaLight is town? (also, are you willing to reveal why I am town?)

Gloobie will you confirm if your source is a cop?

I don't like the continued assumption of how alignments and roles are distributed, nor the pushing the IC for information.

GHS - what is your order, and what is your order's special power?

I don't think its a good idea for me to say yet.

I mean, I disagree. It would go a long way towards confirming your claim.

I agree.

vote: GreatHallScout

I'm strongly townreading joth and I don't know where this is coming from.

I'm on this boat.

I think we should be focusing on GHS and cube today.

Honorable mentions: Dylan, Swowl, Galz, and maybe Jimmmm

As mentioned earlier, scola has stuck with a scumread on GHS for a long time without any explanation of it that I've seen.


So, in conclusion. Solid scumpoints for trying to prevent the EFHW lynch while stating willingness to lynch her. Scumpoints for the Windrunner assumption, and for pushing for more information from the IC. Also for sticking with early reads for so long, particularly the GHS (the point being that it wasn't based on much initially because it was early in scola's posts, and the fact that it hasn't changed or developed makes it look like a token read).

Now this would lead to a moderate-high scum read, but as I said the claimed LL result is a pretty major consideration, so I'll hold off on a final conclusion here until I've re-read him.

[Glooble]

Vote: Didds

Time for me to claim some stuff I guess.

Someone gave me an Alterter, which tells me everyone who targeted me that night.

I had Uncle talk to those people. Didds claimed she didn’t target me.

Need Didds to explain this situation.

[faust]

Let's take a look at joth, shall we? Might as well join in on the wallposts.

First, look at the early interaction with EFHW.

vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.

I don't know if we are still in RVS, but I have to

vote: Eddie

for getting a  Christmas carol stuck in my head.

EFHW places a non-RVS vote on joth and then moves away by pretending to RVS. I call that scummy.  Scum is more likely to vote for partners in the early game as well.

I’m basically never voting Eddie today. And I’m strongly townreading Glooble. And vaguely townreading Didds. Nobody else has pinged my radar one way or another though I am slightly miffed at EFHW’s vote.

I may be reaching here, but joth seems to feel a need to point out EFHW's vote on him without giving a read.

I'm personally hard no on the stealing pact and vote: jotheonah because HARD NO on ever suggesting no lynch D1.

There it is. Took long enough. Vote: chairs

joth's "no lynch bait" post has a very "gotcha" kind of feel to it, and does not look like proper scumhunting.

Y’all Glooble voters are crazy. He’s being hella towny.

It would be a town tell if jtoh were misreading Glooble, so I guess it's a slight scumtell for him to read him correctly.

ok, that was a kneejerk before having caught up on the thread. now that I am caught up I am seeing that an EFHW vote would be more useful from me. I have to admit I'm not super-feeling that case. Anyone want to try and convince me real quick?

This sounds like's he's trying to get someone to post a case that he can disagree with.

sorry, I don't know how to deal with threads that move this fast. I now see that we are dealing with EFHW vs cube. I ... don't have a strong preference. And in no universe do I have time to do the re-reading necessary to have one. So, here's what I'm gon' do: sheep the IC.

vote: hypercube

This comes immediately afterwards. He says that he's not feeling the EFHW wagon, but at the same time does not have a preference? Doesn't quite seem genuine.

And of course he tries to push both the hypercube and the faust counterwagons to EFHW.

Finally, today he has committed his "starting to do wallposts when under pressure" scumtell.

[faust]

@Glooble: Would your alerter have worked if you were roleblocked?

[faust]

I'm trying hard to contain my other thoughts on the Didds situation until she shows up.

[Glooble]

@Glooble: Would your alerter have worked if you were roleblocked?

I don’t know, the pm about the Alerter contained very little information other than the names of the people who targeted me.

[Glooble]

I have more to claim about last night but I need Didds' answer first.

[WestCoastDidds]

I did not target you.

I targeted MiX with two actions. At least one of my actions went through because the result on him “non-town” couldn’t have been you. Presumably I’d be on Rhand’s list of people who targeted MiX?

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have. If that was redirected to you, we wouldn’t know it.

[faust]

The other action was to give him a painrial, which allows prevents a kill from effect a day and night after it wouLid have.

I think you might want to give this another shot

[WestCoastDidds]

I was entirely forthcoming with Eddie and with you. I even asked to talk to Eddie first thing to share the MiX result with him. No way I target you and don’t say anything about it.

[faust]

What is the Lightweavers order's special power?

[Glooble]

Ok, sharing time.

The Alerter told me three people targeted me. The same night, a QT opened up with Mystery Cop. Mystery Cop claimed to have given me the alerter, but said they were not responsible for the QT. However, they did say one of the other items they could give would have that effect. They also told me about the cop result on faust.

I had Eddie ask the other two people who targeted me (according to the Alerter) who they targeted. One of them claimed to have targeted me with a beneficial effect (a specific one, but one which I have no way of verifying, but not the QT.) The other one was Didds.

So was I redirected? Is MC scum trying to frame Didds in collaboration with their redirector buddy? Did the other person who targeted me also open the QT but decide not to share that information for whatever reason? Should I reveal the names of the two people in question?

[Glooble]

And who the heck opened up that QT?

[jotheonah]

Finally, today he has committed his "starting to do wallposts when under pressure" scumtell.

I am too lazy to find it, but in a recent game MiX referred to this very thing as a towntell. I was scum that game, of course. It's actually just a joth tell. Turns out, no matter what your alignment, the best way to get out from under pressure is to focus more on presenting a compelling alternative and less on defensiveness. I would honestly encourage everyone to adopt that strtategy in every game as every alignment.

@Jim I didn't miss your going to bed post and I don't think I misrepresented it. I acknowledged that you ending the day with your vote on EFHW was points against you being her partner. But I felt that the rest of your posts fit my narrative well enough that it was still worth a vote. Then I explained that perhaps the reason for parking your vote is that you meant to come back and switch it but didn't, either because you were asleep (as you said deadline timing was bad for you) or because at the time you checked in you calculated that maintaining the bus was the better cost-benefit analysis.

SOrry if I didn't explain that well, I was trying to post coherent thoughts at the end of a long day and a 51-page re-read.

PPE 3

[jotheonah]

faust, what do you think of Rhand, Galz, and Dylan. I'm sorry you don't like my Jim case; I thought it was elegant.

[LaLight]

Possibilities:

-Both are town, no alignment inverters
-Both are scum, both got alignment inverted
-One is town and one is scum, one got alignment inverted
-GHS/Mysterious cop is scum, in which case we know nothing

I like how you list two options where one of 2 players is scum, but the latter qualifies as "we know nothing" and the former doesn't.

Bullet point four was just sort of a reminder/footnote that just because someone has claimed a result doesn't mean we can trust them. I suppose I could expand to include more options:

-GHS is lying but MC isn't, in which case faust is town but hyper could be either alignment
-MC is lying but GHS isn't, in which case faust is scum and so is hyper (barring inversions)
-Both are lying, in which case we really don't know anything (except that GHS and MC are probably not town-aligned)

I have a result, that GHS did indeed target hypercube. Also two other people did. One of them is Rhand and the other one I don't think I need to share yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

And who the heck opened up that QT?

One of the things inventors can give is a QT to two people, but they are not part of it.