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[faust]

(It's cause I trust cayvie more than I trust faust.)

Here's a reason to vote for me instead of cayvie, but it's a pretty awful reason for voting GHS instead of chairs.

[Glooble]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Also I have 45 minutes left of "work" and I've finished all the tasks I'd planned on doing today, so I might as well try and "contribute" to the "game".

After that I'll reread chairs.

Am I reading the setup post right in that scum has access to the same basic set of possible powers as town? If that's true, wouldn't a no-stealing pact benefit town more on the balance? Since there's more of us?

This is a good point to put into the considerations for what to do. I'm all for a chairs lynch because joth seems towny but I think we should hear from everyone and iron out a theft-decision before we hammer.

"Before we hammer" when chairs is at... 4 votes? Out of 10 needed for a lynch. Someone's jumpy. Is chairs his scum partner? Or does he smell an easy D1 mislynch? Either way, seems like he's intentionally misrepresenting the chairs wagon as larger than it is. Scumpoints.

These are my current thoughts as a reread people. not all at once since theres so many. so i will update. And it helps me get clarity with so many people.

Mix, joth(i think their no-lynch seemed sincere even though i disagree) and Cavie seems the most town to me.

Rhand(despite voting me) and WCD, seems helpfully towny to me as well.

I need to take a closer look at EFHW and faust. i feel like there might be scum between them.

Glooble and chairs seem the most scum. I am definitely going to through them more.

Scola- as they said themselves is being quiet and doesnt want to say much so leaning towards higher on my scum ladder just because of that lurckerish feel

Jimmmmm- unless i missed something has only one post so i dunno why WCD would think they have much on them.

Dylan- Ive has mixed thoughts about dylan throughout. and am interested in hearing their reason as to why they used ability.

lalight- Not so much except the slight glooble read in the beginning then switch to mix and then back to glooble. I did like their interest in the stealing-pact

hypercube- was he the first to point out that not talking in the house is optimal? seems towny. It feels like his agreement to the dustbringer claiming plan was jumping on the idea to seem towny and didnt feel genuine.

Galzria- I think i have negative vibes from them because of their "all chairs votes are bad" gambit a thought chairs seemed scummy.

Swowl- seems like they are trying to be helpful

And Eddie is too much fun to not like. I do think they are being helpful (if i understand what they mean)

I think that is everyone.

That reads list. Agree with cayvie it's very safe. It feels like a reads list of a person who is trying to get as many people on their side by agreeing with them as possible, look like he's contributing, but also not really scumhunt. And it just feels so... padded. Like the goal was more to be long than to be substantive. It's a scummy post. And his subsequent defenses of it do nothing to sway me.

PPE: Okay here are better reasons.

[MiX]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

[Glooble]

lol chairs has literally made three posts since the game started.

Two of them are kinda scummy.

chairs is a great person to lynch if we were panicking and close to deadline and couldn't settle on anyone. He's a terrible person to lynch when we still have four days left.

GHS is much better for now.

PPE: No, he has like 30 posts, but those were the two I thought were scummy.

[faust]

faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.

Wow this is quite harsh. I certainly don't intend to to create acidic atmospheres. I like to make pointed remarks because those tend to garner more reactions.

I think I usually townread you and now I don't and you take from that that I am scum. I cannot see anything else in here, the argument about the tactic I'm supposedly using reads like literal confirmation bias to me - you scumread those people and me and you construct a narrative to explain my actions towards them. But the fact is that no matter who your other scumreads were you would find a reason for scum!me to behave towards them the way I did.

[faust]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

Really? joth was pretty adamant about his read on Glooble.

[MiX]

I'm rereading GreatHallScout, because I trust Glooble more than cayvie or faust.

Immediate reaction: "Oh, really? I didn't think Glooble was being that townread by anyone."

Are there only 2 GHS posts? The wall post's intentionally padded, yes, but town does that too.

Really? joth was pretty adamant about his read on Glooble.

Fair enough, I was also thinking maybe joth was the one making this post, but before I could think more I saw who it was.

[faust]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

why?

All the scumreads I've seen on him are for doing standard newb!town stuff. See also Glooble's recent case; reading an early wagon as more important than it is, and not having original reads.

[Glooble]

Hmf, I don't really want to continue this discussion. I want the people who are on GHS to move their votes because that wagon is laaaame.

why?

All the scumreads I've seen on him are for doing standard newb!town stuff. See also Glooble's recent case; reading an early wagon as more important than it is, and not having original reads.

I'm usually willing to give day one newb passes, but I need a better counterwagon than chairs.

[Glooble]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

[MiX]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

He doesn't need a way to exploit who's in what house to suggest that plan, regardless of his alignment. It can just be generic setup talk that everyone does.

This is a pretty lazy way to townlean GHS.

[Glooble]

Here's the thing about GHS, though. I don't think his "let's claim houses" plan makes very much sense if he's scum. Like, yes maybe there are scum abilities that would benefit from that knowledge, and I guess he didn't know at the time that house members would be announced at the beginning of the great storm, but still, scum is going to know a lot more than town about who is in what house just due to having access to multiple QTs, and I don't see them wanting to even that playing field with a claim plan.

So that actually makes me lean a little more town on GHS.

He doesn't need a way to exploit who's in what house to suggest that plan, regardless of his alignment. It can just be generic setup talk that everyone does.

This is a pretty lazy way to townlean GHS.

Notice I haven't moved my vote.

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

[MiX]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

[Glooble]

Rereading hypercube!

Hi everyone! Good to be back in a game again. For those I haven't played with before, I use he/him pronouns and you can call me cube or hyper or xyrix or whatever variations you like.

Let's start with a vote: Dylan for PR hunting.

I don't see a pressing reason to no lynch now. We could have protective roles, a vig, etc. to change the player parity.

Dylan wasn't really PR hunting at all when hypercube made this post. Dylan calls cube out, cube just backs off immediately, doesn't respond to the call-out.

“Perhaps I should be more clear. I think people should regularly partake of Quiet Times, (hereby referred to as ‘QTs’) for the sake of gaining information that they did not have previously.”

Vote: Eddie for claiming Cult Leader.

We've been over this. But this post is two minutes after Eddie's Quiet times post, so to me it looks like a gut reaction. Two minutes is not really enough time for cube to reread the setup and form an opinion about the likelyhood of a cult mechanic. On the other hand, is that the first place your mind goes when you think about QTs? A neighborizer is a thing, at least as common as a cult. I don't know I legit don't know what to make of this.

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

I'm not sure how true this is. We don't know how many dun spheres every one starts with, I assume it varies. Plus people who don't use powers might have powerful PRs they're saving for the right moment so redistributing spheres to them would be good for town.

On the other hand, shutting down the pact discussion seems to benefit scum.

I got through the rest of his posts and honestly else nothing felt worth pulling out and quoting. The joth vote is null to me. Cube is really fixated on this cult thing. Like, to the point that it seems like possible distraction tactic if a partner were under fire but... what partner? No one really has any heat on them.

There's just generally a lot of short posts which seem to further setupy discussions but there isn't much scumhunting. Which is a scummy place to be.

Plus he votes Dylan for PR hunting right off the bad but then is the first one to join faust's call for a dustbringer claim? That's a little sketch.

So, given all that, I feel okay about

vote:hypercube

Be the alternative wagon you want to see in the thread, and all that.

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

[Glooble]

vote: hypercube

Left out the space.

[MiX]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

I fail to see how scum wouldn't do that post or how town would do it more than scum. Or vice-versa, to be honest. It's just an opinion on stealing that is completely personal and not at all alignment indicative.

[MiX]

vote: hypercube

Left out the space.

Welcome to the correct wagon I hope you enjoy your stay I'm still voting for cube right?

[Glooble]

A stealing pact would redistribute spheres from people who use them to people who don't, which seems most likely to be negative utility (depending somewhat on what powers scum has).

If people set out different numbers of spheres, you're right. But if the number is part of the pact and everyone follows it, everyone gets the same benefit. Although like MiX said, forcing balance may not be good.

I'm a fan of fleshing out a version of the Stealing-pact. NO-pact seems mediocre. NON-stealing pact seems to give scum all of their spheres charged guaranteed and a chance to steal as well.

Honestly I kind of glanced over the sphere talk in my reread, but this post is interesting. At the time GHS made it, we'd already moved on from the idea of a no stealing pact and into possible everyone steals pacts, so it's not super townie to point this out. BUT it's worth mentioning that no one else had articulated this particular reason why a no-stealing pact is bad, which I find compelling. And I can see scum!GHS doing that for towncred, but I could also see town!GHS doing it just to get the infor out there.

NAI. I know that because I did the same and no one said anything about it because setup talk is NAI.

It's not though! There's towny setup talk and there's scummy setup talk. It's not NAI at all.

I fail to see how scum wouldn't do that post or how town would do it more than scum. Or vice-versa, to be honest. It's just an opinion on stealing that is completely personal and not at all alignment indicative.

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

[cayvie]

faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.

Wow this is quite harsh. I certainly don't intend to to create acidic atmospheres. I like to make pointed remarks because those tend to garner more reactions.

I think I usually townread you and now I don't and you take from that that I am scum. I cannot see anything else in here, the argument about the tactic I'm supposedly using reads like literal confirmation bias to me - you scumread those people and me and you construct a narrative to explain my actions towards them. But the fact is that no matter who your other scumreads were you would find a reason for scum!me to behave towards them the way I did.

Hey I hope you don't think my time read was over the line of decency. I really like you, Faust, and I don't mean to insult you.

Is it true that you usually town read me? I think town!Faust usually accurately reads me. You read me as town in hunger games, and scum in ADK's game, and you were right both times. I don't know how you read me in Ash's falling skies game but that hardly counts.

Since I'm town, and you're throwing shade in my direction, that does mark a difference from my experience with town!Faust, so maybe that is another reason I don't trust you this game.

Either way, I don't think associative reads are the same thing as confirmation bias. After all, I'm out here changing my reads on people, which you've already called me out for!

So it's an issue for you when I change my townreads on people, and you also accuse me of confirmation bias... Kinda sounds like a double bind, no?

[MiX]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

[MiX]

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Nevermind I misinterpreted what you said, withdrawn.

But you were scummmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyy, no idea what faust thought.

[Swowl]

what happens if two alignment inverters target the same player?

ok, I read this as "people who can change alignments of other players", sorry

fwiw I also read it this way

[Glooble]

I believe a no stealing pact would be very good for scum for the reasons GHS outlined, ergo I doubt GHS would outline those reasons. But I acknowledge that given that everyone had already more or less ruled out a no-stealing pact, he might have done it for towncred.

I disagree with the logic behind this post. Scum wouldn't push a no stealing pact if it's pro-scum, scum doesn't need to push a no stealing pact openly, and no one looked at that post to read GHS other than yourself so how can he get any towncred?

PPE: He read you as scum because you were scummmmmmmmyyyyyyy.

Just because you do something for towncred doesn’t mean you get towncred. Outcome vs. intent.