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[gkrieg13]

Request prod on Space.

[gkrieg13]

I could vote: mix sure

Then back to MiX. So basically he voted for his partner twice in his first four votes.

[gkrieg13]

Wow I’m really happy with my mix vote now because I know when I was caught scum D1 in Harry Potter mafia I reacted the same way he just did

WIFOM here. Not sure if chairs is just bussing at this point or trying to paint MiX.

[gkrieg13]

Grr. The more I think about it, the more I agree that mix isn’t scum - i would have expected a pr  claim to see if I could at least draw out a town pr

Although this is how I would jump off a partner.

[gkrieg13]

I would vote myself, I think. Given I'm VT, that's probably the safest play.

Bold move, Cotton.

Welp there goes me voting jotheonah over mix.

vote: mix

This again would have to be a pretty big bus, considering he said he would vote joth.

[gkrieg13]

I don’t believe someone could play this way as scum. Can’t get behind a mix lynch.

vote: glooble

Has now changed to defending MiX.

[gkrieg13]

So ADK spends a lot of their first posts talking about promoter claiming. Seems like it is a pro-town thing, but something scum!ADK would know someone in town would think of anyway.

[gkrieg13]

Of the people who have participated in the setup discussion:

MiX- I'm leaning town, his posts tend to have an organic feel to them
joth- Leaning scum, his posts seem more reactive and less "rock-the-boat"
mcmc- The idea that MiX is/was traitor hunting seems like a reach to me, but also looks like genuine scumhunting, so some townpoints
galz- Disagreement on the power level of promoter aside, I think his post about where scum falls in the discussion was a little scummy; it looks like he's making a definitive statement without committing him to any particular read
faust- I can never read faust, I'll just assume that he's town for now
datswan- seems confused about the setup, his posts confuse me so I'm confused as to where his confusion actually lies. Pretty much null here.

vote: joth

In this post they mention one partner with a very null read.

[gkrieg13]

In all seriousness, though, I am kind of a bizarre omission from that post, given that ADK and I had a direct exchange concerning the setup.

That was awhile ago. Looking back at your posts, my question for you is, what info were you hoping to get out of asking me if I thought that a compulsive vig was negative utility?

They leave one person off their list, making it likely that they were thinking about the list more to get it to look townie than to actually put thoughts out there.

[gkrieg13]

ADK also seems to have thought a lot about the setup, and knows exactly how it works. I don't remember them being so much into setup analysis stuff, but could be wrong.

[gkrieg13]

On that note vote: joth

This is the only interaction with ADK and scum D1.

[gkrieg13]

I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?

I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...

Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?

ADK is also very quick to believe galz is town, something that I think a townie would take a little longer on.

[gkrieg13]

We should massclaim.

I'm serious. I was looking at the setup and we can get fantastic PoE.

What I'm thinking is:
-bodyguard claims (who cares, they're bodyguard, dying to protect a PR is the point of the role anyway)
-if psychologist has an innocent result from last night (guaranteed to be innocent at this point) that is NOT one of the claimed PRs, they claim with that result
-if psychologist claims, vengeful townie claims

Scum can't counter or fakeclaim this early because we just catch them. If we accept galz's claim (I do), we have six ICs out of 12 people. That leaves 3 scum in 6 people. If we can determine the towniness of just one person in that group, we win

This however is a very pro-town claiming plan I think. Psychologist was quickly losing their utility anyway.

[gkrieg13]

Works for me

vote: datswan

Would have been early bussing of datswan.

[gkrieg13]

Let's actually look at these two in iso. Not hitting every post here, just stuff that stands out to me

joth:

RVS votes for Glooble, claims jester at the start, jokey stuff

Non-committal on the promoter claiming issue

This post where he wants to make very clear that his jester post was a joke is pretty scummy

Townreads datswan, for confusion over the setup

Scumreads me for my setup plan, so he is actually taking a stand. I feel like he is misrepresenting my stance in this post, though

His last point in his response to mix is a lot of words to say nothing

This vote switch seems a little knee-jerk, which is townier

This little walkback seems like he's trying to keep his options open

But he is pretty strongly defending faust, which leans on the townier side. OTOH I don't think ari's case against faust at this point has much traction, so he's not sticking his neck out too far

joth feels sassier in this game, on a reread, than he has in other games I've played with recently. Is that an alignment tell for him? Probably not

Is scum[/url this flippant about voting for someone they claim to have a townread on? Maybe, if they know they'll be townread for it

[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798708#msg798708]Then goes to vote for mix, then justifies his vote saying that the wagon was stalling. Not the worst reason, but also doesn't have anything to do with mix

More sass. Regardless of your alignment joth, you are entertaining to read here

Joth[/ur] does have a pretty consistent narrative behind his votes. If he is scum this is well constructed

[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19659.msg798962#msg798962]joth is at one vote, with interest in voting from Galz, when he makes this "if you want to lynch me while I sleep" comment. Not great

Note that joth initially claims that he wasn't intending to target mix before spending quite awhile calling mix his biggest scumread

Another post where joth seems to feel an inordinate amount of pressure for the attention he's actually received (his point C). More likely to come from scum, I think

The big fight with Galz, I don't really think any of this is an alignment tell

Back on mix. He tunneled mix a lot on day one, and I think that joth is savvy enough to know that tunneling comes off as towny. More and more his read on mix is looking to me less genuine and more constructed

The fact that this is posed as a question and not a statement stands out to me, again I find more and more of joth's posting to be overly concerned/aware about the opinion of town as a whole. Maybe that's a natural feeling for the gladiator but some of it does go back to day one

Puts a lot of effort (where more than I remembered before rereading) on keeping open the possibility of scum!galz. Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I still feel that there's no way in hell scum!galz claims like he did, and joth looks like he still wants galz to be a viable challenge for him

Actually allows his mind to be swayed, though. Or maybe realized that the cause was hopeless. Or maybe knew ahead of time that it would fall through, and that a big emotional struggle looks towny

So I think this is basically the first time that joth has seriously commented at all on faust's alignment. For someone who's posted quite a bit this game, Joth has talked about surprisingly few people

The intent to challenge DatSwan is a little out of left field

At the end of all that, joth comes off as only mildly scummy, but scummier than I remember. In my most recent game with scum!joth, he did seem to get more active the more pressure was on his team, and I don't know what's more pressure-inducing than being a gladiator

Let's see what I get from DatSwan

Seems confused about whether there is a promoter. But if promoter is town scum might be legitimately confused about whether there is one.

Later clarifies that promoter here refers to "town promoter"

First post (several of his posts in) where he expresses any reads. Had previously expressed that he had been busy but there are quite a few setup-talk posts before this. I don't know, is scum this sloppy?

Then casts suspicion on me and mix for bringing up the promoter stuff, then votes for me because mix has more votes. Not great

This post seems a little more engaged

Big post. Analysis seems genuine, a lot of his logic is based on where people are on wagons, which is something that I disagree with but is also in character for DatSwan

Given that it's extremely unlikely at this point that joth and swan are partners, I think that swan coming to joth's defense here is town points

But then points out that joth could still be scum. His logic here is pretty fuzzy

Excited energy in these last posts sparing with Joseph, mildly towny

More setup confusion. About stuff that's harder to be confused about as scum

Argues against claiming pre-challenge, on the idea that joth might be scum. I see his point but also having town challenge a PR would be bad

This spliting of people into pools, while unhelpful, is consistent with what I know of town!Swan. It's a long post with no real reads, though

Well, here's a read

At this point I think I actually find this kind of thing towny

So looking back on everything, joth comes off as scummier and datswan as townier than I remembered. I'm still somewhat on the fence but I think it's enough for me to

Unvote

But then they walk it back with this long post.

[gkrieg13]

MiX's continued attempts to will his way into IC status really bother me. Like, that is not a crazy thing for scum to be trying to do at this juncture. If we've all made it clear that PoE is the way we're gonna play this, scum wants to get eliminated from that list as definitively as possible.

What if MiX is scum and his whole lynchee thing is just a gambit to get him and his partner both on the quote-unquote IC list and the reason he's stalling with that info is because he wants to make sure he's really clear before he risks tying him and his partner together.

It's plausible. More likely something that I would be willing to consider at LyLo, though.

vote: chairs

Then they start the next day voting for their other partner?

[gkrieg13]

vote: MiX

I 100% agree with everything my twin is saying.

Here's the thing: pushing mix is exactly what scum!glooble needs to do right at this moment. There's a very small pool of people that are still viable lynches, and mix and galz are teetering at the edge of that pool.

Glooble's posts here are very consistent with the idea that he's putting everything he has into getting one of them lynched while he still can; then if he goes down tomorrow, his other partner (gkrieg or chairs) would hopefully make it through lylo.

I think this is just caught scum being desperate.

vote: glooble

But then switches over to glooble fairly quickly.

[gkrieg13]

I'm pretty sure if we lynch glooble, gkrieg, and chairs in any order, then we win. So let's do that.

And here they put their partner at the end of the line.

[gkrieg13]

vote : chairs

That's L-1

Puts chairs at L-1 here.

[gkrieg13]

So I don't know.

I'm town, but nothing ADK has done has been all that scummy. MiX bussed Datswan pretty hard when it seemed like the momentum could have switched to joth D2, and then challenged chairs.

I would love for both of them to actually make cases for why I'm scum, instead of just being the default lynch.

[gkrieg13]

Well basically I just have to convince you that it is ADK. MiX would have been extremely risky challenging his partner yesterday and heavily bussing Datswan.

If you think I cannot, under any circumnstances, be scum, then we win. Feel free to explain it as detailed as possible in case someone doesn't believe I'm the towniest non-IC alive.

See that is the problem though. I was hoping to reread ADK and have a good case on why they are scum, but there just isn't a very strong case. Whichever of you is scum has played a very good game here.

I also think it is interesting that after D1, this just turned into a 3 vanilla mafia vs. town with some investigative roles and the promoter.

[gkrieg13]

vote: MiX

Is voting without explaining just what all the cool kids are doing now?

Vote: ADK

Is this why we think ADK is the lynchee?

[gkrieg13]

Vote: ADK

And this one too. I guess it just means that MiX probably wasn't the lynchee.

[gkrieg13]

We can do the tried-and-not-tested joth lynch, if you want. Sad part is I think you're not good lynch material. Maybe you are?

Things like this are making you seem summer to me
Vote: mix

PPE: 3

Well, but then he jumps off the MiX wagon. It is possible that his lynchee just wasn't going to get lynched D1.

[gkrieg13]

Unvote
Not mix today after this claim

Ugh, but then he has this.