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[faust]

Vote Count 2.3

gkrieg13 (2): DatSwan, iguanaiguana
Awaclus (1): Eevee
mcmcsalot (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, Hydrad
SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, mcmcsalot, Robz888, Galzria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 11, 2018, 03:30:00 am.

[Robz888]

I have not been able to read absolutely everything. Who came up with the idea that scum shot him for the day chat? Because this is something that hadn’t occurred to me, but it’s smart—so smart, in fact, that the person who posed this theory could very well be that scum.

Can someone quickly explain the mcmc case?

I just read iguana’s case on gkrieg, and while I don’t completely follow it, this sounds to me like the town iguana from a few games ago.

[Robz888]

Oh, also I have a gut feeling that Awaclus is town. Eevee is starting to see a little scummy, like the reckless buddying is covering for something.

Vote: Eevee

[gkrieg13]

I will be pretty busy today and tomorrow.  Really want to give this a thorough reread soon.

vote: Mcmcsalot.  He still looks scummy from yesterday, but seems to have really dialed back today.  That kind of change within a game seems weird to me.

I thought he seemed more his usual self today. What do you mean by dialed back?

By dialed back, he means that he seems more his usual self today.

When have you ever answered a question for someone else?

When have I ever not answered a question for someone else?

I don't know, but this seems like Awaclus trying to be way too meta.  I'm pretty sure Awaclus is scum.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: gkrieg

Here's why.

I think both DatSwan and Hydrad are more likely town than scum. As in, I am townreading them right now based on my read of their play. Also, I think DatSwan's case has some merit, even though he didn't go into a lot of detail about it. Gkrieg's voting positions yesterday have feasible scum motivations.

But really, this is why I started to scumread gkrieg more and more.

If DatSwan is town, and Hydrad is town, and gkrieg is also town, then probably someone on a 4-person scum team would join the wagon and vote for gkrieg also to try to get the wagon going and get a mislynch.

However, if DatSwan is town, and Hydrad is town, and gkrieg is scum, I would expect it to go exactly as it did, with no one joining them and hoping that the wagon would dissipate. Now traction is all sort of moving to Awaclus/McMcsalot.

Scum are 4/12 players right now. The last time we had 4 scum with this few players, I was scum and we made the mistake of bussing and the whole game got impossible. Scum doesn't want to bus here, they want to mislynch a few times and win through sheer force of numbers.

TLDR: gkrieg is scummy, and we should lynch him, and it has more to do with Hydrad/DatSwan being towny than anything. Let's discuss this and not lynch McMc.

@Hydrad, you should switch back, you had it right the first time, we can sort McMc later.

I don't think speculation on other people being townie is a good case on anyone.  You don't know their alignments (assuming you're town).  Based on pretty much the same logic, Mcmcsalot is scum because his wagon lost steam yesterday (and I could use the same logic that you/Awaclus/Galzria were pretty townie yesterday).  Also my voting pattern is only scummy if Mcmcsalot is scum, whose wagon you are actively pushing against. 

You can make inferences on peoples' alignment based on their wagons later in the game, but doing it with 12 left alive is much too early. 

The thing that really gets me is how hard you start to push the wagon after you say that your case is based more on two players being townie than anything. 

[gkrieg13]

I have not been able to read absolutely everything. Who came up with the idea that scum shot him for the day chat? Because this is something that hadn’t occurred to me, but it’s smart—so smart, in fact, that the person who posed this theory could very well be that scum.

Can someone quickly explain the mcmc case?

I just read iguana’s case on gkrieg, and while I don’t completely follow it, this sounds to me like the town iguana from a few games ago.

For me the mcmcsalot case is that he was doing lots of "pro-town" stuff D1.  He was posting wagons, postcounts, discussing mass claim stuff, and he was very active.  To me he had a lot less substance than he normally has.  Then D2, he is much more laid back (hardly even a presence). 

There is also the fact that the LaLight wagon grew so quickly, and many of the people on it were people that weren't on the mcmcsalot wagon.  The fast growth must have been in part due to the approaching deadline, but it also makes sense if mcmcsalot is scum.

[Galzria]

Starting my rereads now.

[iguanaiguana]

I have not been able to read absolutely everything. Who came up with the idea that scum shot him for the day chat? Because this is something that hadn’t occurred to me, but it’s smart—so smart, in fact, that the person who posed this theory could very well be that scum.

Can someone quickly explain the mcmc case?

I just read iguana’s case on gkrieg, and while I don’t completely follow it, this sounds to me like the town iguana from a few games ago.

Nice work calling me town and scum in the same post.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: gkrieg

Here's why.

I think both DatSwan and Hydrad are more likely town than scum. As in, I am townreading them right now based on my read of their play. Also, I think DatSwan's case has some merit, even though he didn't go into a lot of detail about it. Gkrieg's voting positions yesterday have feasible scum motivations.

But really, this is why I started to scumread gkrieg more and more.

If DatSwan is town, and Hydrad is town, and gkrieg is also town, then probably someone on a 4-person scum team would join the wagon and vote for gkrieg also to try to get the wagon going and get a mislynch.

However, if DatSwan is town, and Hydrad is town, and gkrieg is scum, I would expect it to go exactly as it did, with no one joining them and hoping that the wagon would dissipate. Now traction is all sort of moving to Awaclus/McMcsalot.

Scum are 4/12 players right now. The last time we had 4 scum with this few players, I was scum and we made the mistake of bussing and the whole game got impossible. Scum doesn't want to bus here, they want to mislynch a few times and win through sheer force of numbers.

TLDR: gkrieg is scummy, and we should lynch him, and it has more to do with Hydrad/DatSwan being towny than anything. Let's discuss this and not lynch McMc.

@Hydrad, you should switch back, you had it right the first time, we can sort McMc later.

I don't think speculation on other people being townie is a good case on anyone.  You don't know their alignments (assuming you're town).  Based on pretty much the same logic, Mcmcsalot is scum because his wagon lost steam yesterday (and I could use the same logic that you/Awaclus/Galzria were pretty townie yesterday).  Also my voting pattern is only scummy if Mcmcsalot is scum, whose wagon you are actively pushing against. 

You can make inferences on peoples' alignment based on their wagons later in the game, but doing it with 12 left alive is much too early. 

The thing that really gets me is how hard you start to push the wagon after you say that your case is based more on two players being townie than anything.

I think it's better than your case on McMc!

I'm not decided on McMc, but I can see where he is coming from as town, given that he just moved across the country and he's been very busy but still wanted to play a game. His D1 did look scummy to me in a vacuum, but I could also see him as town feeling like he should participate but not really having time to sit down and properly analyse the game, and therefore just going with gut reads with no explanations and other super quick stuff like that as he read along.

Then D2 after getting some heat he did his best to put up some analysis to prove he can. So yeah, I can see that coming from him as town, but he could also be scum. I'm not decided on him yet. But this weak movement toward him now when the deadline is approaching makes me actually think more towny about him. So yeah, worth defending, and hopefully it doesn't bite me later.

As for you, I guess I should say that my read on DatSwan and Hydrad is pretty strong. Especially Hydrad, I would bet the game on him being town this time. DatSwan has not been AS towny today but I saw a lot of towny content from him yesterday and so he is still one of my strongest townreads.

And I don't have strong scum reads at all. But I know if I am right about DatSwan/Hydrad that you basically should be scum. So yeah, I feel good about the case. I think other people should check it out and maybe do rereads of Hydrad/DatSwan to see where I am coming from with them being towny and you being scummy by PoE.

One more thing, I do think your voting is kinda scummy yesterday even if McMc is town. If McMc is scum and you are scum, that would mean you voted a partner while making sure that a town got lynched instead. If McMc is town though, that means you eagerly voted towns all day, ensuring that both major wagons were on town by the EoD. It's certainly possible for a town to do what you did but the scum motivation is there too and that puts you under suspicion.

If you want me to vote somewhere else, then I guess I need stronger evidence than what I'm seeing to change my mind.

[iguanaiguana]

If you're not interested in voting gkrieg, please at least comment on my case. Thx.

[Hydrad]

ok

iguana has swayed me again.

even better because the part about me is true so that helps.

Vote: gkrieg

[gkrieg13]

I think it's better than your case on McMc!

I obviously disagree.

I'm not decided on McMc, but I can see where he is coming from as town, given that he just moved across the country and he's been very busy but still wanted to play a game. His D1 did look scummy to me in a vacuum, but I could also see him as town feeling like he should participate but not really having time to sit down and properly analyse the game, and therefore just going with gut reads with no explanations and other super quick stuff like that as he read along.

Then D2 after getting some heat he did his best to put up some analysis to prove he can. So yeah, I can see that coming from him as town, but he could also be scum. I'm not decided on him yet. But this weak movement toward him now when the deadline is approaching makes me actually think more towny about him. So yeah, worth defending, and hopefully it doesn't bite me later.

doesn't that mean that everyone who gets a wagon on them right now is townie?

As for you, I guess I should say that my read on DatSwan and Hydrad is pretty strong. Especially Hydrad, I would bet the game on him being town this time. DatSwan has not been AS towny today but I saw a lot of towny content from him yesterday and so he is still one of my strongest townreads.

And I don't have strong scum reads at all. But I know if I am right about DatSwan/Hydrad that you basically should be scum. So yeah, I feel good about the case. I think other people should check it out and maybe do rereads of Hydrad/DatSwan to see where I am coming from with them being towny and you being scummy by PoE.

I fundamentally disagree with you on this one.  I don't think that 2 townie people voting for me and scum not jumping on makes me scum.  I think scum would certainly jump on me if I were scum (people really like to bus me as scum, something you should know).  But either way, this is a very flimsy case, not something that warrants "basically should be scum".  Also PoE with 12 people alive where you have 2 town reads and no scum reads?  I mean, come on.  You can't say PoE as a reason when there are 8 people excluding yourself that you are writing off with no reason.

You can bet the game on Hydrad being town, but that is not what you are doing.  You are speculating that scum would jump on my wagon (one with no good reasoning from Hydrad and DatSwan) if I were town.  You even said yourself that the other points in your case aren't very strong, and that it almost all hinges on Hydrad and Datswan being townie.  That means that they are voting for me with very flimsy evidence in the first place!  Maybe that is the reason that no town and no scum have jumped on my wagon.  It is definitely a much more likely reason than the one you are giving.

One more thing, I do think your voting is kinda scummy yesterday even if McMc is town. If McMc is scum and you are scum, that would mean you voted a partner while making sure that a town got lynched instead. If McMc is town though, that means you eagerly voted towns all day, ensuring that both major wagons were on town by the EoD. It's certainly possible for a town to do what you did but the scum motivation is there too and that puts you under suspicion.

If you want me to vote somewhere else, then I guess I need stronger evidence than what I'm seeing to change my mind.

I didn't vote for that many people D1, it just happened to be that the people I voted for ended up getting traction from other people.  If you look at the timing of my votes (and not just that they were on people who were major wagons at the end of the day), you can see that this theory that I "ensur[ed] that both major wagons were on town by the EoD" is not valid.  I didn't know that they would be the major wagons at the end of the day.  The cases on both Mcmc and LaLight were good.  You yourself were voting for mcmcsalot.  You are also implying that scum like to vote for towns and get on major wagons, both of which aren't true.  Scum like to stay off of mislynches, because that is where people look for scum the next day.

[gkrieg13]

ok

iguana has swayed me again.

even better because the part about me is true so that helps.

Vote: gkrieg

What sways you in his argument?

[Hydrad]

ok

iguana has swayed me again.

even better because the part about me is true so that helps.

Vote: gkrieg

I guess that part that its hard to get your wagon started even if it feels like mainly town is on it. I also kinda have townreads on dat and iguana, so even if there isn't much i can point out that you might be scummy, the part about if we are all town and your lynch isn't really moving makes me kinda more sure that you are scum.

What sways you in his argument?

[Hydrad]

gah quotes


I guess that part that its hard to get your wagon started even if it feels like mainly town is on it. I also kinda have townreads on dat and iguana, so even if there isn't much i can point out that you might be scummy, the part about if we are all town and your lynch isn't really moving makes me kinda more sure that you are scum.

What sways you in his argument?

[Hydrad]

minus the

What sways you in his argument?

part. that was gkriegs... i'm good at this.

[SpaceAnemone]

I kinda feel like vote: Space is appropriate here. I get that LaLight and Space are friends, but their interaction towards the end of the day seemed a little too friendly. There's also the beginning of D2 where Space sought validation for hammering a mislynch. I don't know that town!Space would do that. I think set-up talk is NAI for Space since they definitely do it as town and it's not hard to emulate so I don't have anything further to say on that.

I had this same feeling on Space and LaLight. I thought the monologue before they voted seemed a little fake (sorry if it was totally real Space!)

It was totally real You've even met me and LL in real life!!

I'm not feeling the scum vibes from you that a bunch of other people seem to have been commenting on. However, I'm curious why you're not engaging with anything that's being said about neighbourhoods now. Early in D2 you did a bit of a vote analysis to try to rule out people that might have been Hydrad's neighbours.

Were you doing that because you figured the neighbour was a likely scum? If so, howcome you haven't said anything about the later discussions? How likely do you think it is that Jimmmmm was picked as the NK because it would open up the neighbourhood to more scums?

[iguanaiguana]

Deadline is basically the end of the weekend.... not ideal at all... but we should keep it in mind.

I will share my thoughts on gkrieg's response later. I want more reactions from people not named gkrieg.

[Hydrad]

I kinda feel like vote: Space is appropriate here. I get that LaLight and Space are friends, but their interaction towards the end of the day seemed a little too friendly. There's also the beginning of D2 where Space sought validation for hammering a mislynch. I don't know that town!Space would do that. I think set-up talk is NAI for Space since they definitely do it as town and it's not hard to emulate so I don't have anything further to say on that.

I had this same feeling on Space and LaLight. I thought the monologue before they voted seemed a little fake (sorry if it was totally real Space!)

I'm not feeling the scum vibes from you that a bunch of other people seem to have been commenting on. However, I'm curious why you're not engaging with anything that's being said about neighbourhoods now. Early in D2 you did a bit of a vote analysis to try to rule out people that might have been Hydrad's neighbours.

now I'm just being confused by everyone.

[iguanaiguana]

I wish Jim breadcrumbed his damn neighbor. @hydra Space had you and Jim confused somehow

[iguanaiguana]

oh because you were the neighbor maker last game probably

[gkrieg13]

I kinda feel like vote: Space is appropriate here. I get that LaLight and Space are friends, but their interaction towards the end of the day seemed a little too friendly. There's also the beginning of D2 where Space sought validation for hammering a mislynch. I don't know that town!Space would do that. I think set-up talk is NAI for Space since they definitely do it as town and it's not hard to emulate so I don't have anything further to say on that.

I had this same feeling on Space and LaLight. I thought the monologue before they voted seemed a little fake (sorry if it was totally real Space!)

It was totally real You've even met me and LL in real life!!

I'm not feeling the scum vibes from you that a bunch of other people seem to have been commenting on. However, I'm curious why you're not engaging with anything that's being said about neighbourhoods now. Early in D2 you did a bit of a vote analysis to try to rule out people that might have been Hydrad's neighbours.

Were you doing that because you figured the neighbour was a likely scum? If so, howcome you haven't said anything about the later discussions? How likely do you think it is that Jimmmmm was picked as the NK because it would open up the neighbourhood to more scums?

I think the speculation on the neighborhoods past what I said is rather unfruitful. I think mafia killed Jim because of the neighborhood and there are only two people in it and the other was scum.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think the speculation on the neighborhoods past what I said is rather unfruitful. I think mafia killed Jim because of the neighborhood and there are only two people in it and the other was scum.

It's relevant for stuff like this at least:

Who came up with the idea that scum shot him for the day chat? Because this is something that hadn’t occurred to me, but it’s smart—so smart, in fact, that the person who posed this theory could very well be that scum.

You (gkrieg) were the first one to go looking for neighbours as people who might be responsible for Jimmmmm's death, way before anyone was explicit about any of it...

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'll read this later. Drunken game night ATM. DAMA, I suppose, but I won't guarantee seeing the question. For those that have played Bang!, we're finally playing with 8.

[Swowl]

it would be super neat to hear from the absent players at some point.