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[faust]

I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.

You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it

I had to go back and read the setup post to remind myself what the range of things it could mean was.

[Swowl]

I am assuming the NZ is supposed to mean Neighborizer? Please don't make your posts cryptic like that if you can avoid it.

You assumed it so I am going to guess people will get it

I had to go back and read the setup post to remind myself what the range of things it could mean was.

Fair enough. Honestly I only do it because my computer doesn't recognize the term Neighborizor. and i hate red lines. if it is actually a thing I will use the word going forward. 

[Swowl]

Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit

I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.

I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...

No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.

can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"

[faust]

Regarding your post:

Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:

That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".

Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.

[faust]

Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit

I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.

I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...

No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.

can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"

this game will use a closed, invented 13-player setup in the style of normal games from mafiascum.

[Swowl]

Lyncher - could claim cop at some point and have us go for that target
Jester - to my understanding similar to a mime. kick up a fuss and get lyched to win.
Governer - seems like a strong skum role
Godfather - trying to pull a cop result that they can use to their benefit

I don't think you read the setup correctly. Non of these are normal.

I seperated them for a reason. And I would also like to point out - why were they included if not potential?... guess someone other than me should of voted for that question thing...

No, I mean the setup explicitly states that these roles cannot be in the game.

can you give me a clue? I don't see that anywhere in the original set up posts. all I see is "I may take as many roles from this as I choose"

this game will use a closed, invented 13-player setup in the style of normal games from mafiascum.

Is this the part where I quote back at you the set up list of the roles I took and the mod said "I may use any of the roles listed above"?

[faust]

It's just badly formatted. The setup was approved by a mafiascum mod as normal and they would hardly do that if it didn't adhere to their standards. But you can ask schadd if you want to be extra sure.

[Swowl]

Regarding your post:

Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:

That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".

Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.

fair on the arbitrary.
i disagree about GS bit though.

[Swowl]

It's just badly formatted. The setup was approved by a mafiascum mod as normal and they would hardly do that if it didn't adhere to their standards. But you can ask schadd if you want to be extra sure.

good idea:

schadd - can any/all roles you listed in the set up be used? or only those of a normal formal?

only the "explicitly normal" ones

[Swowl]

GS = Gunsmith

[iguanaiguana]

And it didn't suit me! But it suited me more than no lynch. Let's not forget that you were the one pushing this wagon.

And what wagon were you pushing? Space? Do you expect to get town points for that?

What? I am not doing it for town points, I think you are scum, there's a difference
Also you're trying to push the narrative that the same people were on SC wagon and yours and I explain why that happens.

It's not a narrative, it's a fact.

Narrative is those people are scummy, isn't it?

No. iguana is town. TWM is scummy. I'm undecided on you.

no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?

Because I suck!

[iguanaiguana]

no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?

Because iguana sucks at being scum.

lol

[iguanaiguana]

no c'mon stop saying stuff like this. Ok yeah TWM skummy-ish but II is nowhere near a solid town read. How do you ignore new player meta on SC and then not accept that II could be pulling an experience skum play?

Because iguana sucks at being scum.

so do I. but when you are skum you have a team to help you.

My feeling is that when you are scum you have a team to hurt : (

[iguanaiguana]

Regarding your post:

Here is the list of the PRs Town can have. I have crossed out the ones that I assume a Town player would not find incredible amounts of value in. Not saying they are bad roles, just saying that to make the statement "OMG my role is so super cool I feel the need to do this" doesn't match up:

That is not at all what iguana said. He just said something about his thoughts upon reading his PM. It's entirely possible that the PM was a VT and iguana's thoughts were "oh man, I wanted to be a PR".

Then there follows a list of "strong"/"not-strong" roles that is completely arbitrary and I don't agree with it at all. For example somehow Sane Cop is weak and Gunsmith is strong, when Sane Cop is strictly better than Gunsmith. But it doesn't matter anyway as the premise of the whole thing is just false.

I endorse this message.

[iguanaiguana]

So here is the thing about a scum!Faust

First of all, scum!Faust would defend town!Iguana as town, and stick to his read there. He'd see it as something he would do as town, and therefore do it even more stringently than he would as town. So Faust defending me does not give him town points. He's made a point of IC-ing me as scum before, even, in Rewind Mafia.

But here's the thing.

If Faust is scum, then he's being bossy in the scum!QT, and depending on his partners, his partners may just be like "Yeah, Faust, you do whatever and that's fine." So regardless, if he's scum he's going to have a lot of control of the kill.

So would have Faust chosen to kill Galzria?

Scum!Faust knows that he tunneled town!Galzria and town!Clemens yesterday. Why does he choose to kill Galzria and make himself look bad? Maybe just because he believes he can survive the scrutiny? Maybe he tunneled Galzria because he saw an opportunity to do so and he knows that town!Galz is a threat to him, and then at night he went for the kill because the lynch didn't work out for him? This assumes that scum!Faust's #1 priority in this game is getting Galzria dead. But actually in my experience of several games on scum!Faust's team, he usually doesn't have those kinds of priorities or worry too much about his opponents.

So then there's the other possibility: someone saw the opportunity to set up Faust.

If Faust is town, scum probably noticed that he spent all day tunneling town. Then they can notice also that if they kill Galzria, it would make Faust look bad and expose that he tunneled two towns. And they get to off a strong town player at the same time.

So this logic actually explains the Galzria kill much better, and it points to the person who had immediately had a thorough case on Faust at the start of the  day.

TLDR: If Faust is town, it points to scum!PPS, and possibly also a scum!Space partner.

So I guess I'll try this out and let's see what other people think:

Vote: PPS

[The_Wine_Merchant]

faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana

I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.

Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.

Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.

Bull shit. Were you around? No. And very few other people were as well. I am not blaming you for a lynch, because a lynch needed to happen. I am glad you were on it. I just think your play is scummy for other reasons.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Hey Robz! You have wanted to avoid complete responsibility for your vote this game. Come vote for Faust!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.

A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah but psychologically I think PPS would go for a gambit where he incriminates a feared town player and ICs a scum partner in one fell swoop. I think he would love to do that kind of thing.

Actually there is an argument against that too. Space is pretty reasonable and I don't think they would want him to attempt something so high risk.

[pingpongsam]

Well, that’s a bold analysis and vote, iguana. It definitely fits within my meta to try to IC my partner as scum by claiming a town investigative result on them. Do you think Space would go for such an outlandish plan or maybe I just popped a big surprise on them today? They certainly seemed a bit surprised.

If we kill one today scum surely NKs the other tonight as my flip confirms space 100%. We also remove any possibility of getting additional results from me. So the net effect is 2 dead townies and a loss of all investigative information. Leaving us both alive today puts scum in the tough position of having to leave us alive to avoid creating an IC.

Can anyone iterate why iguana must be town other than saying he sucks as scum? This looks a lot like sucking as scum to me.

[faust]

faust (4): LaLight, pingpongsam, The_Wine_Merchant, iguanaiguana

I should note that everyone on this wagon except PPS was also on the Clemens lynch, yet somehow they fault me for that.

Oh come on. I went there close to deadline to get a lynch through, you know very well I didn't want to lynch the guy.

Yeah that's scummier than my vote. If all three of you were "voting to get a lynch through" as you claim, then you could have easily lynched someone else. But you didn't because it was convenient not to.

Bull shit. Were you around? No. And very few other people were as well. I am not blaming you for a lynch, because a lynch needed to happen. I am glad you were on it. I just think your play is scummy for other reasons.

Well okay but that doesn't really matter as apparently LaLight is blaming me for the lynch. I don't know why you think my play is scummy, but I've laid out the reasons for me being town.

[pingpongsam]

I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.

A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.

Too bad you killed the watcher...

[faust]

So the net effect is 2 dead townies

Whereas on the other hand if we don't lynch you I'm sure scum will happily twiddle their thumbs and refrain from making a nightkill. Or who knows, maybe they'll decide to kill one of their own!

[faust]

Can anyone iterate why iguana must be town other than saying he sucks as scum? This looks a lot like sucking as scum to me.

Scum!iguana lurks and is generally less motivated and will certainly not be a driving force in the game. From his posts speaks a certain excitement that is just not there in his scum posts.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I think we have the opportunity to let another data point or two accumulate on space before deciding on him. And I don't think it says anything about space regardless.

A fake result can easily be done on a townie. I did it as a cop on gkrieg.

Too bad you killed the watcher...

I killed the watcher?