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[ashersky]

Welcome to RMM48: Falling Skies Mafia by ashersky.

This game will use an Original, Closed, RMM setup designed by ashersky.  It is considered extremely advanced.  Knowledge of flavor is not required, but will enhance your enjoyment.

There is no co-mod.

Sign ups are open.

1. faust
2. Awaclus
3. jotheonah
4. Galzria
5. WCD
6. pps
7. Datswan
8. ADK
9. MiX
10. EFHW
11. SpaceAnemone
12. Glooble
13. gkrieg Uncleeurope
14. 2.7
15. shraeye
16. pubby

Game State Tracker:
Night 0
Day 1 || Night 1
Day 2 || Night 2
Day 3 || Night 3
Day 4 || Night 4
Day 5 ||

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay. If you are not sure about your paraphrase, ask the mod first.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread or QTs.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive.  With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched.  Ties are broken by coin flip.  With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, maroon text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM or in your Role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 36 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod, up to modkill.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last 7 IRL days.
2. Nights will last no longer than 48 IRL hours.

[ashersky]

Public Setup Information:

Flavor:
1.  All flavor-related parts of the game, including flavor names provided to players, come from the finished television series, Falling Skies.

2.  All players will receive flavor names.  A flavor name should be considered a full part of a player’s role, and that information should be treated in the same way.  Knowing a player’s flavor name may directly affect the outcome of the game.

3.  Flavor names may be indicative of alignment.  For players unfamiliar with the show, each flavor name will be accompanied by a ranking from 1 to 10.  The higher the number assigned by the mod, the more likely he feels that flavor name would be associated with a non-town alignment.  For example, if a player were assigned the flavor name of Dai, he would receive a ranking of 2 from the mod.  This would indicate to the player that the mod feels strongly that Dai is very likely to be assigned a town alignment.

4.  There are no special rules regarding claiming or sharing flavor names and rankings.  Players who receive a flavor name with a ranking higher than 5 will receive mod-provided alternatives.

5.  Players may ask the mod for a one-time explanation of the ranking provided.  The mod will explain his own take on the show and its characters.  Players who received an alternative may only ask about one flavor name.

Town Win Condition:
If when a night falls, all threats to town have been eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive, you win.

Other Bits:

A note about my posts both here and in QTs.  I’m doing my best to color and bold, but when I phone post, it can be a pain.

So if I just plain post, or only bold, it’s still mod me talking.

Thanks.

All provided flavor scores are fixed.  See the flavor scores explanation in the Post #2 for further info on what those are.

Night actions are unavailable on Night Zero unless specifically noted.

For those interested in further background on flavor, I used the following wiki for most of my information:

https://fallingskies.fandom.com/wiki/Falling_Skies_Wiki

A few notes.

I'm finalizing QTs, assuming one more player will sign up.

QT Posting rules are very, very important.  Please only post in your designated QT(s).  For everyone's ease, all QTs will have player names embedded in the titles.  If you are allowed to post in that QT, your name will be in the QT title.

This is your public reminder.

Ash - Do players flip with their number ranking announced?

No.

[schadd]

48

[silverspawn]

shadd spelled /in wrong.

[pingpongsam]

Have never even heard of the show but that’s no reason not to /in.

[sudgy]

I just saw this in my unread replies:

RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 2)
RMM47: Falling Skies Mafia (sign-ups open)

Should this be RMM48?

[ashersky]

Yes.  Fixed.

[ashersky]

Public setup information was updated.  It will continue to be so as time goes on.

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[faust]

It is considered highly advanced.

It is considered extremely advanced.

One of these days you're going to run out of superlatives

[Swowl]

is there a list of games, or at least a game, that is currently running you will be waiting on before launching this? or is it just sit n go?

[ashersky]

is there a list of games, or at least a game, that is currently running you will be waiting on before launching this? or is it just sit n go?

You sound like a poker player.

If Space’s game fills, this will wait until that game is in Day 2.  Otherwise, this game will start when full, as there aren’t many games running and none in the early stages.

[Galzria]

/in

[Galzria]

is there a list of games, or at least a game, that is currently running you will be waiting on before launching this? or is it just sit n go?

You sound like a poker player.

If Space’s game fills, this will wait until that game is in Day 2.  Otherwise, this game will start when full, as there aren’t many games running and none in the early stages.

lol he played professionally for 6 years.

[chairs]

ok /in

[Swowl]

loving my first RMM currently so I am going to
/in
for now. I may have to back out if we get close though and I am still active in both my other games.

[faust]

loving my first RMM currently so I am going to
/in
for now. I may have to back out if we get close though and I am still active in both my other games.

Tip: Only /in when you're dead in one of your games. It effectively does the same thing as /inning with a caveat as you did, but creates less bookkeeping work for the game mod

[EFHW]

/tag

[schadd]

/tag

[ashersky]

So...quicktopic ate most of my QTs for this game, and I don't have the time to redo them all.  I don't know what happened, but basically almost all of them have just disappeared.  The ones I have links to don't open anymore, and they don't show in any lists.

It seems they've been deleted.  Has this happened to anyone else?

Due to this, the game is on indefinite hold.

[schadd]

not me.

is there any chance that you are a spambot?

[ashersky]

not me.

is there any chance that you are a spambot?

No chance.  If you mean any chance they think I'm a spambot...I don't think so?  Only the QTs I was working on last night disappeared.

[silverspawn]

No, I've never had that kind of problem with QTs. But I also don't tend to make them early.

That really sucks btw, sorry to hear it.

[faust]

Did you contact Quicktopic for this? I don't know how customer support is over there, but they should be able to recover it.

[ashersky]

Did you contact Quicktopic for this? I don't know how customer support is over there, but they should be able to recover it.

I sent an email — we’ll see how they are.  I’m not a Pro User, not sure if that will matter to them.

[ashersky]

No response from QT.

[ashersky]

This thread has been dead for over a year.

Now it is revived.

About half the QTs are re-written.  I'm working on the rest, but I have to piece it together anew.  Still, I plan for this to be good to go in July.  Please re-in if you want.

[faust]

/in

[Awaclus]

/in

[jotheonah]

/in

[Galzria]

Ehhh... /in-sies.

[WestCoastDidds]

Extremely advanced? You think I'll be okay?  If so /in

[ashersky]

Extremely advanced? You think I'll be okay?  If so /in

Yes, I think you'll be okay.  Just read everything at least twice and ask the mod as many questions as needed.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yes, I think you'll be okay.  Just read everything at least twice and ask the mod as many questions as needed.

Awesome, thank you in advance for the million questions!

[ashersky]

All Role PMs are done.  Over a year later, but done.

[2.71828.....]

/tag

I can comod if you want one.

[pingpongsam]

/in

[Swowl]

/in sauce

[WestCoastDidds]

/in sauce

You ❤️ the sauce!

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[MiX]

/in

[EFHW]

/in

[ashersky]

Bump for six more.

[SpaceAnemone]

/in because Didds says!

Hi from our train between Bratislava and Budapest! :-)

[jotheonah]

/in because Didds says!

Hi from our train between Bratislava and Budapest! :-)

Didds is literally traveling the world, bugging people in person to sign up for mafia games. My hero.

[WestCoastDidds]

/in because Didds says!

Hi from our train between Bratislava and Budapest! :-)

Didds is literally traveling the world, bugging people in person to sign up for mafia games. My hero.

#BrandAmbassador

[WestCoastDidds]

Speaking of...you get your brother, I’ll get my husband and then we are just a Shraeye away from less pressure

[Glooble]

I don't know the flavor at all, but I'll /in.

[gkrieg13]

/in

[jotheonah]

3 more!

[popsofctown]

I don't know this tv show too damn bad

[2.71828.....]

I don't know this tv show too damn bad

I don't know it either

/In

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't know this tv show too damn bad

same

[ashersky]

2 to go. What regulars aren’t signed up that can be peer pressured?

[WestCoastDidds]

2 to go. What regulars aren’t signed up that can be peer pressured?

Shraeye, raerae, silver?

[WestCoastDidds]

2 to go. What regulars aren’t signed up that can be peer pressured?

Shraeye, raerae, silver?

Iguana, infangthief, hypercube, chairs?

[jotheonah]

Robz?

[WestCoastDidds]

Robz?

And mcmcsalot

[jotheonah]

Or Eevee?

[ashersky]

All good options...

[shraeye]

Sure, count me in

[ashersky]

One more slot. Looking pretty epic.

[ashersky]

A few notes.

I'm finalizing QTs, assuming one more player will sign up.

QT Posting rules are very, very important.  Please only post in your designated QT(s).  For everyone's ease, all QTs will have player names embedded in the titles.  If you are allowed to post in that QT, your name will be in the QT title.

This is your public reminder.

[pubby]

I'll play 

[ashersky]

Full!

Thread locked except for tags. I’ll try to get PMs out tonight.

[ashersky]

Due to a player's VLA, we'll be postponing the start a bit.  Will let you know when PMs will go out.

[faust]

So how long a wait are we talking?

[ashersky]

Friday.

[ashersky]

Friday.

Make that Thursday.

[faust]

Friday.

Make that Thursday.

Yes, please do!

[ashersky]

PMs will be going out with QT links. 

Please make a confirmation post in your QT BEFORE following any links to other QTs, if you have them.  In your confirmation post, please let me know you've read everything.

Please ask questions in your QT regarding your role.

[ashersky]

All links have been sent.  Night Zero starts now.

Thread is locked to all players.  Tags may continue.

[ashersky]

For those interested in further background on flavor, I used the following wiki for most of my information:

https://fallingskies.fandom.com/wiki/Falling_Skies_Wiki

[ashersky]

Night actions are unavailable on Night Zero unless specifically noted.

[ashersky]

All provided flavor scores are fixed.  See the flavor scores explanation in the Post #2 for further info on what those are.

[ashersky]

All links have been sent.  Night Zero starts now.

Thread is locked to all players.  Tags may continue.

This was wrong. Per the subject line, night zero starts when all players have confirmed.

[ashersky]

The deepest, darkest part of the night was always the scariest.  A monster under the bed, a wild beast in the woods, a missed alarm were the worst things in the world.  Until the Espheni came.

Now, the darkest part of the night is the safest.  We hide and scurry, fight back when we can.  We lost the Earth so quickly, but it takes so much longer to liberate.  But we will.  Or die trying.

Aliens.  Beings from another planet, tech we've never seen, feelings we can't understand.  Who...what can we trust?  You?

Now, sixteen of us in camp.  The way we've been failing in our counteroffensives, we can't all be trustworthy.  After another long march, we came across a welcome, yet depressing, sight.

Here in this clearing, there are twelve harnessed kids.  They are just standing there, silent, staring.  We need to save them, somehow.

But for now, bed down.  Rest up.  Get ready for another day.  Find a way to survive.

Night Zero begins now!

[ashersky]

A note about my posts both here and in QTs.  I’m doing my best to color and bold, but when I phone post, it can be a pain.

So if I just plain post, or only bold, it’s still mod me talking.

Thanks.

[ashersky]

I have updated Post 2 with all of my random posting that can be considered game/rules-related.  Please be sure to re-review that before the day starts.

[ashersky]

I want to take a moment and clarify my personal mod belief on the “QT quoting” issue, as I know there are different camps when it comes to that.

In my games, I do not allow the quoting of mod posts from QTs to other QTs or the game thread. The only exception to that rule is a scum player copying role information to a scum QT.  In no other instance should a player copy mod text verbatim.

Players may not copy and paste player text from any shared QTs to any other shares QTs or the game thread.

In my games, a player may copy anything from anywhere and paste it in their own non-shared QT for personal perusal. They may also copy their own words from non-shared QTs and pasted them anywhere, so long as they don’t say it is a copy/paste.

[ashersky]

As the sun rises, so do our senses.  You never know from where an attack might come.  We've already lost too many.

As everyone rouses, a sad sight: the twelve harnessed children are down to eleven.  One is laid out on the ground, gone.

Day 1 begins now!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (16): faust, Awaclus, jotheonah, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, EFHW, SA, Glooble, gkrieg, 2.7, shraeye, pubby

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[MiX]

This is definitely the most complex game of mafia I've seen. Instead of breaking into RVS instantly...what are the harnessed children about? Who has a clue?

Oh, and we should state our knowledge of the flavor: I know nothing, but I read a bit of the wiki.

Vote: joth

[2.71828.....]

This is definitely the most complex game of mafia I've seen. Instead of breaking into RVS instantly...what are the harnessed children about? Who has a clue?

Oh, and we should state our knowledge of the flavor: I know nothing, but I read a bit of the wiki.

Vote: joth

I feel like speculation about things such as harnessed children will likely get us nowhere.  That being said, I like MiX's attempt at a non-RVS post.  Even though I think it was a failed attempt.

Town points.

[2.71828.....]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi all. I agree that knowing who has knowledge of the flavour might be helpful. That said, I know absolutely nothing so far.

[SpaceAnemone]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

Doesn't an early-D1-post with a vote for a player who's put in absolutely zero game content so far pretty much count as a Random Vote for the purposes of RVS?

[pingpongsam]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

Doesn't an early-D1-post with a vote for a player who's put in absolutely zero game content so far pretty much count as a Random Vote for the purposes of RVS?

Yes.

[pingpongsam]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

[MiX]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

Doesn't an early-D1-post with a vote for a player who's put in absolutely zero game content so far pretty much count as a Random Vote for the purposes of RVS?

I can't really not vote...it's outside my power.

I am 2 out of 10.

Is this at all helpful? I have no idea what to do with the setup, it's crazy.

[gkrieg13]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

What do you mean 2 out of 10?

[EFHW]

I watched every episode.

What promises did ash make? I didn't get any promises.

[EFHW]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

But why so critical?

[faust]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

What do you mean 2 out of 10?

I know you're VLA and stuff, but this is supposed to be a complex game, so please read up on all relevant information that we are given.

[2.71828.....]

I guess I shouldn't say "failed attempt" more like it was not something that will lead to a productive D1

But why so critical?

Not being as critical is why I walked back my verbiage of "failed attempt" to just standard disagreement. 

And I only had one post to be critical of, the rest of you all were just lurking super hard at that point.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This is definitely the most complex game of mafia I've seen. Instead of breaking into RVS instantly...what are the harnessed children about? Who has a clue?

Oh, and we should state our knowledge of the flavor: I know nothing, but I read a bit of the wiki.

Vote: joth

All I know is what I've learned from the wiki, from what I've gather the "harnesses" are machines that the aliens use to turn human children into soldiers for their side, it's a plot point at one point that they have to figure out how to remove them without killing the kid. Mechanics-wise I don't know what they're their for but I'm assuming that if we lose them all that it's a bad thing.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

I would be in favor of a mass number claim. I'm a 6.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

What do you mean 2 out of 10?

vote: gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

I would be in favor of a mass number claim. I'm a 6.

Bold move, scum.  vote: ADK

[faust]

Vote: ADK

[faust]

ADK: Please name a character form the show who is not in this game.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.1:

joth (1): MiX
gkrieg (1): ADK
ADK (2): 2.7, faust

Not Voting (12): Awaclus, jotheonah, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, EFHW, SA, Glooble, gkrieg, shraeye, pubby

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[MiX]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

I would be in favor of a mass number claim. I'm a 6.

"Bold move", as E said. How is this at all useful?

ADK: Please name a character form the show who is not in this game.

Do you know the flavor?

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning, friends! It’s been too long.

I also know nothing about the flavor, but if it’s a show with a lot of dead kids, I’m not likely to start watching. Because although I have gray hair, I’m clearly a 17 year old girl and my tv tastes skew that way as well. Gilmore girls, Buffy, the Bold Type! So, EFHW, I’m seriously impressed that you’ve seen them all. You can be our resident expert!

I’ve read the top level of the wiki so have just the basics....like there seem to be Espheni bad guys and Dornia bad guys. 16 players is huge....the only other game I’ve played quite as large was multi-ball. So, I’m wondering how many sets of baddies there might be.

There are going to be a ton of folks to keep straight, but initially I’m interested in MiX having to vote.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not the unexpected reaction

ADK: Please name a character form the show who is not in this game.

Matt Mason. I was, in fact, given a flavor fakeclaim, and I can see maybe see the utility in using it, but I figured that honesty would be the best policy.

What's your number?

[faust]

What's your number?

Why do you want to know?

[faust]

ADK: Please name a character form the show who is not in this game.

Do you know the flavor?

No.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What's your number?

Why do you want to know?

It's information, isn't it? I think that there's utility to making people commit to a number claim early.

[faust]

What's your number?

Why do you want to know?

It's information, isn't it? I think that there's utility to making people commit to a number claim early.

If you claim your role now, that's also information, but I doubt you would agree to that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What's your number?

Why do you want to know?

It's information, isn't it? I think that there's utility to making people commit to a number claim early.

If you claim your role now, that's also information, but I doubt you would agree to that.

Sure, but the number information doesn't really tell scum anything (it's not a huge amount of information for town either but I would guess it's more useful)

What do you think of PPS's unprovoked claim of a 2?

[faust]

Sure, but the number information doesn't really tell scum anything (it's not a huge amount of information for town either but I would guess it's more useful)

And yet you have given no reason why I should believe that it's more useful for town than for scum.

What do you think of PPS's unprovoked claim of a 2?

Very PPS. Slight town.

[pingpongsam]

I watched every episode.

What promises did ash make? I didn't get any promises.

There is an expectation set that this will be extremely complicated. Also, if you know flavor your enjoyment will be enhanced which implies a baseline degree of enjoyment to begin with. I was promised complicated enjoyment which is basically the only kind of enjoyment I care for.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sure, but the number information doesn't really tell scum anything (it's not a huge amount of information for town either but I would guess it's more useful)

And yet you have given no reason why I should believe that it's more useful for town than for scum.

How, what, and why people claim can help us read people.

[faust]

Sure, but the number information doesn't really tell scum anything (it's not a huge amount of information for town either but I would guess it's more useful)

And yet you have given no reason why I should believe that it's more useful for town than for scum.

How, what, and why people claim can help us read people.

Everything else they post can also help us read them.

[pubby]

ADK what is the name and role name of your fake flavor?

[jotheonah]

Good morning, friends! It’s been too long.

I also know nothing about the flavor, but if it’s a show with a lot of dead kids, I’m not likely to start watching. Because although I have gray hair, I’m clearly a 17 year old girl and my tv tastes skew that way as well. Gilmore girls, Buffy, the Bold Type! So, EFHW, I’m seriously impressed that you’ve seen them all. You can be our resident expert!

I’ve read the top level of the wiki so have just the basics....like there seem to be Espheni bad guys and Dornia bad guys. 16 players is huge....the only other game I’ve played quite as large was multi-ball. So, I’m wondering how many sets of baddies there might be.

There are going to be a ton of folks to keep straight, but initially I’m interested in MiX having to vote.

Gilmore Girls is my second favorite TV show (after DS9) and I’ve definitely thought about how to make Stars Hollow mafia before. Do I smell a really dumb co-mod collab?

[jotheonah]

No one strikes me as scummy so far but I’m pretty meh on the ADK votes. Setup talk/claim plans in place of RVS is standard ADK playbook and not alignment indicative.

[MiX]

What's your number?

Why do you want to know?

It's information, isn't it? I think that there's utility to making people commit to a number claim early.

I think this PoEs every flavor name, by how much I know about the setup. There seems to be a pattern in how each character's scored, so scum could deduce who has what based on their numbers. I'm pretty sure this helps scum more than town, but maybe not, I wouldn't know.

What do you think of PPS's unprovoked claim of a 2?

Very PPS. Slight town.

Last time PPS was PPS, he was super scummy but I couldn't call him out on it. Now I feel like always calling him out whenever he's PPS-y, which I presume is going to be always. TL;DR for me this is scummy.

There is an expectation set that this will be extremely complicated. Also, if you know flavor your enjoyment will be enhanced which implies a baseline degree of enjoyment to begin with. I was promised complicated enjoyment which is basically the only kind of enjoyment I care for.

Checks out with what I know of you.

ADK what is the name and role name of your fake flavor?

I too wish to know the answer to this question (specifically the "role name" part)

Joth not immediately saying that I'm submitting to the mix vs joth meta is town!joth.

Vote: pubby

[jotheonah]

I’m so very tired of that meta that I’m probably going to give you entirely too much benefit of the doubt.

[Glooble]

Hi. I didn’t know this started.

My gut is to say the number claiming is bad. It doesn’t really limit what scum can fake claim later, since the numbers are somewhat subjective- there’s a lot of wiggle room. And it could turn town players with high numbers into easy mislynch targets.

I’d need a better case for the utility of this info before I post my number.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK what is the name and role name of your fake flavor?

As mentioned above, Matt Mason. I wasn't given a fake role with it

[A Drowned Kernel]

@mix: regarding your poe point: what "pattern" are you talking about? How many data points do you have?

[pubby]

If there's no fake roles in this game, then I'm comfortable to say I'm an ally.

[MiX]

Hi. I didn’t know this started.

My gut is to say the number claiming is bad. It doesn’t really limit what scum can fake claim later, since the numbers are somewhat subjective- there’s a lot of wiggle room. And it could turn town players with high numbers into easy mislynch targets.

I’d need a better case for the utility of this info before I post my number.

It limits them heavily: they have to decide if they want their actual flavor role or not right at the start. But if we're doing this, we might as well get a full flavor claim, and I don't see that helping town more than scum.

Also I highly doubt scum would have fake claims with high numbers. So overall I agree with your conclusion but not the reasons.

@mix: regarding your poe point: what "pattern" are you talking about? How many data points do you have?

1, and without knowledge of the flavor any more than the wiki, I can deduce my character from the rating (of course that doesn't make any sense, but trust me, it's not hard to know one knowing the other). I believe scum can do this too.

If there's no fake roles in this game, then I'm comfortable to say I'm an ally.

Hmm yeah I'm also town... What do you mean fake roles?

[gkrieg13]

I am 2 out of 10. I have never even heard of Falling Skies. I’m here because ashersky made promises.

What do you mean 2 out of 10?

I know you're VLA and stuff, but this is supposed to be a complex game, so please read up on all relevant information that we are given.

I just wanted to make sure it was about his role and not something else.

[faust]

A flavor name should be considered a full part of a player’s role, and that information should be treated in the same way.  Knowing a player’s flavor name may directly affect the outcome of the game.

[faust]

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

[faust]

Vote: pubby

[pubby]

If my hunch is correct some members of town understand what my post meant. If you do not understand then you are not in that group.

[MiX]

Unvote

[Awaclus]

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Vote: MiX

Vote: Awaclus

[pubby]

vote: MiX 

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t hate the MiX votes, but, uhm, why?

And where, where where is DatSwan? Galz? Shraeye? Maybe they are having fun, summer weekends instead of roasting alive.  But I’m interested in hearing their take.

@Joth- yes! But only if older Rory is scum. By the end of the series she is literally the WORST, and the cheating in the reboot. Ugh.

[jotheonah]

I don’t hate the MiX votes, but, uhm, why?

And where, where where is DatSwan? Galz? Shraeye? Maybe they are having fun, summer weekends instead of roasting alive.  But I’m interested in hearing their take.

@Joth- yes! But only if older Rory is scum. By the end of the series she is literally the WORST, and the cheating in the reboot. Ugh.

Scum team is Rory, Lorelai, and Emily. Theme is that the Gilmores are ruining everyone else's lives.

[SpaceAnemone]

My gut is to say the number claiming is bad. It doesn’t really limit what scum can fake claim later, since the numbers are somewhat subjective- there’s a lot of wiggle room. And it could turn town players with high numbers into easy mislynch targets.

I’d need a better case for the utility of this info before I post my number.

Yeah, I think it's been said by now between the intervening posts, but I think number-claiming is unwise because we can't be sure how easy it is to go from number to flavour name, and flavour name might give away more of the role.

Not only could it make high town numbers into easy mislynches, but it could make low-numbered town players attractive targets for scum. Though that's only really the case if there's reason to believe that the more townie a player's name is, the more beneficial their role will be. Does anyone who knows the flavour have feelings on whether that would be true?

[pubby]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

[MiX]

My gut is to say the number claiming is bad. It doesn’t really limit what scum can fake claim later, since the numbers are somewhat subjective- there’s a lot of wiggle room. And it could turn town players with high numbers into easy mislynch targets.

I’d need a better case for the utility of this info before I post my number.

Yeah, I think it's been said by now between the intervening posts, but I think number-claiming is unwise because we can't be sure how easy it is to go from number to flavour name, and flavour name might give away more of the role.

Not only could it make high town numbers into easy mislynches, but it could make low-numbered town players attractive targets for scum. Though that's only really the case if there's reason to believe that the more townie a player's name is, the more beneficial their role will be. Does anyone who knows the flavour have feelings on whether that would be true?

Why do you think high-number people will be lynched first? It's a very interesting point that you and Glooble have both said and I fail to see why.

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

What ratings are you talking about?

[Swowl]

Hey all - a little late to the party sorry.

When the game started I did not think I had seen this show. Then I went to the fandom page and realized that I had in fact seen the first 2-3 seasons a while ago. With that, plus some research on the Fandom page... I have some insights I wanted to get out right away:

1) Kind of has to be a multi ball - there are sooooo many factions in the show. From memory, and a little brushing up, it the main ones are [Militia, Bezerkers, Espheni, Volm, Skitters, Harnessed Humans]. There are lots of others too, but I feel like the game has to include at the minimum [Militia, Espheni, Volm, Skitters, and of course as it has been mod confirmed - Harnessed Humans].

2) Between the Bezerkers, the Collaborators, and Skitters... I think we can safely assume there are traitor(s).

3) The Espheni pretty much have to be the primary "Mafia".

4) The Militia, the Mason Family, and the Volm most likely make up the most/all of the "Town" faction.

5) There are probably items in the game. The show has so many options for games like this.

*Don't know how that info will pan out, or its usefulness, but I don't see how getting it out there can hurt us*



So yeah, because of all the possibilities we currently have to deal with, I do not really see the point in the number claim.
It says in the set up that people with higher number scores will be given fake claims. It also says that the numbers are determined based on Ash's personal interpretation of how good or bad of a person the character is in the show. So, we claim... skum gives their fake claim number... or whatever, any number really, because if they have to back it up later with a claim we are never going to be able to determine if it is truthful or not because it is based on Ash's POV.

I don't really have a better idea of how to approach Day 1 here, but I do think that focusing on the score numbers will ultimately just end with us spending a lot of time doing something that will not lead any where. Where as not talking about it, at the very minimum, will keep skum from potentially being able to isolate the "townier" players that have lower number scores.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.2:

gkrieg (1): ADK
ADK (1): 2.7
MiX (3): Awaclus, pubby, faust
Awaclus (1): MiX

Not Voting (10): jotheonah, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, EFHW, SA, Glooble, gkrieg, shraeye

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[WestCoastDidds]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

[Galzria]

I have 0 knowledge of the show, but am inclined to agree with Swan that there’s almost certainly more than two base win cons in play. I’ve no idea if that means Survivor, Second Scum faction, SK, Cult or whatever though.

I’m not as convinced by his argument for not number claiming, though I’m neither convinced by the arguments that we should do. Mainly I feel the people arguing for fit into the group that I would expect to argue for. Swan being against so early seems a little out of character for him? I dunno. Maybe not.

[EFHW]

I'm not so sure about multiball. There are lots of groups, but they tend to divide into prohuman/proalien. The volm could possibly be a third faction,  but they end up helping the humans, so that wouldn't be entirely consistent. I should review the plot some more. Please let there be no cult! Tom Mason should have 9 lives, for sure. Like full on deathproof.

Ppe Halz

[EFHW]

*Galz. Appropriate typo, though!

[Galzria]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

Pubby’s statement of “I believe ‘X’ D1 and won’t be changing my mind” is exactly pulled from what he did as Town in 123 - I believe regardless of his alignment this is intentionally done... so make of that what you will.

[Swowl]

I have 0 knowledge of the show, but am inclined to agree with Swan that there’s almost certainly more than two base win cons in play. I’ve no idea if that means Survivor, Second Scum faction, SK, Cult or whatever though.

I’m not as convinced by his argument for not number claiming, though I’m neither convinced by the arguments that we should do. Mainly I feel the people arguing for fit into the group that I would expect to argue for. Swan being against so early seems a little out of character for him? I dunno. Maybe not.

I mean - i am open to being wrong on the number part. What upside can you math out for doing it?

[EFHW]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

Pubby’s statement of “I believe ‘X’ D1 and won’t be changing my mind” is exactly pulled from what he did as Town in 123 - I believe regardless of his alignment this is intentionally done... so make of that what you will.

It does have an intentional ring to it.

[EFHW]

I'm against number claiming. Giving ADK townpoints, though. It's a good way for town to make the most of such a high number.

[Galzria]

I have 0 knowledge of the show, but am inclined to agree with Swan that there’s almost certainly more than two base win cons in play. I’ve no idea if that means Survivor, Second Scum faction, SK, Cult or whatever though.

I’m not as convinced by his argument for not number claiming, though I’m neither convinced by the arguments that we should do. Mainly I feel the people arguing for fit into the group that I would expect to argue for. Swan being against so early seems a little out of character for him? I dunno. Maybe not.

I mean - i am open to being wrong on the number part. What upside can you math out for doing it?

I honestly haven’t had the time or energy to think about it - you know what my weekends been like lol.

Really my point was that reading arguments made thus far both for and against, I haven’t been moved either way.

[faust]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

How does it look bad?

[shraeye]

I'm on vacation until Tuesday.  See you then

[Swowl]

I don’t hate the MiX votes, but, uhm, why?

And where, where where is DatSwan? Galz? Shraeye? Maybe they are having fun, summer weekends instead of roasting alive.  But I’m interested in hearing their take.

@Joth- yes! But only if older Rory is scum. By the end of the series she is literally the WORST, and the cheating in the reboot. Ugh.

SERIOUSLY though! I am gonna get a ton of shit from Galz for admitting this, but I did love me some Gilmore back in the day.

[Swowl]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

How does it look bad?

Pubby gives very little reason for his camp votes and then sticks to them.
I agree with Galz interp in terms of it being NAI.
What is off is that this is not "very little reason". I mean, there is.. but also they assigned exact numerical values of skumminess to the players they mentioned.

Do you not think it looks bad?

[Swowl]

I have 0 knowledge of the show, but am inclined to agree with Swan that there’s almost certainly more than two base win cons in play. I’ve no idea if that means Survivor, Second Scum faction, SK, Cult or whatever though.

I’m not as convinced by his argument for not number claiming, though I’m neither convinced by the arguments that we should do. Mainly I feel the people arguing for fit into the group that I would expect to argue for. Swan being against so early seems a little out of character for him? I dunno. Maybe not.

I mean - i am open to being wrong on the number part. What upside can you math out for doing it?

I honestly haven’t had the time or energy to think about it - you know what my weekends been like lol.

Really my point was that reading arguments made thus far both for and against, I haven’t been moved either way.

fair enough on the weekend point - I also generally disagree with Day 1 claim options, which is what struck me as odd that you brought it up as irregular.

[faust]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

How does it look bad?

Pubby gives very little reason for his camp votes and then sticks to them.
I agree with Galz interp in terms of it being NAI.
What is off is that this is not "very little reason". I mean, there is.. but also they assigned exact numerical values of skumminess to the players they mentioned.

Do you not think it looks bad?

I didn't ask you to answer, did I?

[faust]

Vote: DatSwan

[gkrieg13]

I don’t love the idea of flavor number claiming. I don’t see how it could be good for town.

[pubby]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

this was an absurdist joke based on last mafia (a bad joke apparently) I'm surprised so many people are analyzing what I said

I don't know anyone else's flavor number BTW. But maybe someone else does, or someone has an ability which can check? Eventually getting suspicious people to claim numbers could be useful... maybe? A mass claim of flavor ratings now seems like terrible idea though.

[jotheonah]

That’s a pretty good joke.

We just don’t know you well enough to get it yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

This is bizarrely specific. What exactly are you basing this on?

I had exactly the same thought. Between the “ally” claim and putting exact values on folks...it’s not a good look.

How does it look bad?

I wouldn’t say bad. Just not good.

I thought the ally claim was weird. I thought the call out to other potential allies was even more strange. And then this post with exact numbers on Space and Joth... not numbers of scumminess, but the number of Ash’s sense of how scummy their flavor name would be...the specificity of it is quite odd. It seems to be announcing some kind of inside information to/about a small set of people and that seems sketch to me.

[WestCoastDidds]

PPE: I don’t get the joke (obviously)

[MiX]

That’s a pretty good joke.

We just don’t know you well enough to get it yet.

That is also my reaction. I have a feeling I'm gonna like this pubby fellow...you know, as soon as he gets solid reads and/or I correctly read him as scum.

PPE: I don’t get the joke (obviously)

I think you need to read M123 in non-mod eyes, I believe it set pubby's meta (and the return of pps, at least for me).

[faust]

I thought the ally claim was weird. I thought the call out to other potential allies was even more strange.

I don't know what "weird" and "strange" mean in this context. Do you think it's more likely to come from scum or not?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

this was an absurdist joke based on last mafia (a bad joke apparently) I'm surprised so many people are analyzing what I said

I don't know anyone else's flavor number BTW. But maybe someone else does, or someone has an ability which can check? Eventually getting suspicious people to claim numbers could be useful... maybe? A mass claim of flavor ratings now seems like terrible idea though.

I'm getting a townread on pubby from all this

[Glooble]

Pubby has read the information in his QT, realized that some players are "allies", whatever that means, and obviously has reason to believe that making these players aware that he is also an ally is beneficial to his win condition.

It's easier for me to envision a scenario where town or third-party pubby does this than a scenario where scum!pubby does this, but I don't have enough information yet to rule anything out. If pubby is town, I trust him to have weighed the potential usefulness of scum knowing this vs. the potential usefulness of the relevant town player knowing this and judged the claim to be worth it.

If pubby is scum, who knows some town players are allies and wants to draw them out, I think he would have approached it differently. He doesn't seem to me to be pushing for a claim.

I don't see a huge amount of value in speculating about this beyond how it affects our reads of pubby.

PPE: ADK

[SpaceAnemone]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

this was an absurdist joke based on last mafia (a bad joke apparently) I'm surprised so many people are analyzing what I said

I don't know anyone else's flavor number BTW. But maybe someone else does, or someone has an ability which can check? Eventually getting suspicious people to claim numbers could be useful... maybe? A mass claim of flavor ratings now seems like terrible idea though.

We haven't played together before, have we? So I'm definitely an odd target to name in your joke.

You also must be very new to f.ds mafia if you don't expect overanalysis...

I do dislike that you appear to be flavour-number-fishing. I can't see how that's a pro-town thing to do on the whole...

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: space

[MiX]

Vote: Space, I haven't seen a case as good as this one all game.

[Glooble]

Vote: Space, I haven't seen a case as good as this one all game.

I see what you did there.

[2.71828.....]

Why are people voting space?

[2.71828.....]

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

this was an absurdist joke based on last mafia (a bad joke apparently) I'm surprised so many people are analyzing what I said

I don't know anyone else's flavor number BTW. But maybe someone else does, or someone has an ability which can check? Eventually getting suspicious people to claim numbers could be useful... maybe? A mass claim of flavor ratings now seems like terrible idea though.

A joke? All jokes are scummy.

But actually, this one is. Claiming numbers for people is a scummy technique for drawing out the actual numbers people have.

Vote: pubby

[MiX]

Vote: Space, I haven't seen a case as good as this one all game.

I see what you did there.

It wasn't a joke, by the way, I was almost going to vote for space when I saw ADK doing so.

Why are people voting space?

Pressure, sheeping and something that I want to see if ADK thought of first.

Right now I'm pinning SpaceAnemone at about a 4 on the flavor rating and joth at a 6. Not expecting to change my mind.

this was an absurdist joke based on last mafia (a bad joke apparently) I'm surprised so many people are analyzing what I said

I don't know anyone else's flavor number BTW. But maybe someone else does, or someone has an ability which can check? Eventually getting suspicious people to claim numbers could be useful... maybe? A mass claim of flavor ratings now seems like terrible idea though.

A joke? All jokes are scummy.

But actually, this one is. Claiming numbers for people is a scummy technique for drawing out the actual numbers people have.

Vote: pubby

Did it work at all? Do you believe scum!pubby would think this is a good way to do this? Do you think he would disguise it as a joke? I would answer "no" to all three, how about you?

[Glooble]

Vote: Space, I haven't seen a case as good as this one all game.

I see what you did there.

It wasn't a joke, by the way, I was almost going to vote for space when I saw ADK doing so.

Oh, I thought you were saying "I haven't seen a case this good all game" referring to a nonexistent case, as if to say "All the cases that have been made all game are bad."

[SpaceAnemone]

A joke? All jokes are scummy.

But actually, this one is. Claiming numbers for people is a scummy technique for drawing out the actual numbers people have.

Vote: pubby

Did it work at all? Do you believe scum!pubby would think this is a good way to do this? Do you think he would disguise it as a joke? I would answer "no" to all three, how about you?

Have you two both played with pubby before? How new is he? (Is "he" definitely the correct pronoun, BTW?)

I think it's entirely reasonable, knowing nothing about pubby, to assume that it could be a rookie attempt at number-fishing by scum, yes.

Like, not enough to have voted pubby yet, but that's mainly because I'm only skipping very quickly into the game while waiting for a work task to compute something for me. I'll play properly outside of work hours.

(I get that your question was pointed at e, but I think I'm picking up votes for my position on pubby too, so I feel like it's helpful to clarify).

[Glooble]

If pubby is scum I highly doubt he tries something like this without running it by his scumbuddies on Night zero. Given the general level of experience in this game, chances are pretty good there's at least one experienced scum player in that QT who would have said "that's clumsy and it'll backfire."

But maybe not, who knows.

[Galzria]

I guess the advantages in claiming mirror the disadvantages:

Advantages:
- It guides our PR's. Cops, Number Cops, Trackers, Watchers, Roleblockers, Jailors, etc all gain value out of a guideline for how inherently scummy Ash believes a player's Flavor/Name/Character to be. It doesn't mean that high number claims are scum or that low number claims are town, especially given that scum have fake claim numbers and can simply lie... but it DOES provide guidelines without ACTUALLY telling scum what PR's do/do not exist within the game and who has them.

[Galzria]

I guess the advantages in claiming mirror the disadvantages:

Advantages:
- It guides our PR's. Cops, Number Cops, Trackers, Watchers, Roleblockers, Jailors, etc all gain value out of a guideline for how inherently scummy Ash believes a player's Flavor/Name/Character to be. It doesn't mean that high number claims are scum or that low number claims are town, especially given that scum have fake claim numbers and can simply lie... but it DOES provide guidelines without ACTUALLY telling scum what PR's do/do not exist within the game and who has them.

I hit "enter" and this posted, so please hold while I finish the post.

[Galzria]

I guess the advantages in claiming mirror the disadvantages:

Advantages:
- It guides our PR's. Cops, Number Cops, Trackers, Watchers, Roleblockers, Jailors, etc all gain value out of a guideline for how inherently scummy Ash believes a player's Flavor/Name/Character to be. It doesn't mean that high number claims are scum or that low number claims are town, especially given that scum have fake claim numbers and can simply lie... but it DOES provide guidelines without ACTUALLY telling scum what PR's do/do not exist within the game and who has them.

Neutral:
- It doesn't actually tell scum or town anything specific. A "townier" number does not necessarily equate to a "stronger PR". That is, a 1-out-of-10 may very well be an IC, but that doesn't necessarily mean that scum want to kill that player first, or that the player is the biggest night-action threat that they face. For all they know a town player with a 7-out-of-town, despite (apparently) being a super-slimeball in Ash's eyes, may have a PR that reads "If you survive to Night 3, you may activate your PR to reveal all remaining scum". Ok, that's (probably) an exaggeration, but you get my point.

Disadvantages:
Scum, at least from a single-scum-team perspective, generally will know who is telling the truth about their numbers. And as we don't know what their PR's are, or how they interact/play off that knowledge, we cannot know to what benefit they may be able to use this knowledge. Maybe they gain little, maybe they gain lots. Claiming would be a roll of the dice.

-----

In my personal experience, I have seen D1 claiming massivly help town once, and I've seen it massively help scum many more times than that. I don't believe given our lack of understanding about how much it would help scum out that claiming makes sense. Then again, I've never felt that way. If Ash were playing and not modding I would expect him to be pushing otherwise though. But I don't believe it's completely accurate to make a blanket case for it being "purely good" or "purely bad" with no upsides/downsides. I think it falls somewhere in between. I'm just generally against it.

[Glooble]

It occurs to me that there might potentially be some confusion between "Masons" as in the mafia role and "Masons" as in the last name of several characters on this show.

Assuming Ash didn't decide to be cute and make the Masons masons, that is.

[Glooble]

Disadvantages:
Scum, at least from a single-scum-team perspective, generally will know who is telling the truth about their numbers. And as we don't know what their PR's are, or how they interact/play off that knowledge, we cannot know to what benefit they may be able to use this knowledge. Maybe they gain little, maybe they gain lots. Claiming would be a roll of the dice.

Ash's warning about the importance of flavor names combined with something in my own role description make me think that the Espheni faction probably has some sort of ability which makes it particularly useful for them to know player's flavor names. I would not roll these dice, at least not until We have a little more info.

[WestCoastDidds]

I thought the ally claim was weird. I thought the call out to other potential allies was even more strange.

I don't know what "weird" and "strange" mean in this context. Do you think it's more likely to come from scum or not?

I chose those words deliberately because I am not sure. I am not sure scum would be quite so obvious, but pubby is newish, so maybe? More likely, I think, he is part one of the vague multiball scenarios that have been mentioned.  I don't think the ally claims and number placing are town-friendly, but I am not sure they are scummy. I am certain that as of right now, I don't trust him or have any reason to think he is town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you not think it looks bad?

I didn't ask you to answer, did I?

So, what do you make of it, faust? Is it really just a bad joke?

[faust]

Do you not think it looks bad?

I didn't ask you to answer, did I?

So, what do you make of it, faust? Is it really just a bad joke?

Probably. The reactions to it have definitely been more enlightening than the thing itself.

[jotheonah]

Disadvantages:
Scum, at least from a single-scum-team perspective, generally will know who is telling the truth about their numbers. And as we don't know what their PR's are, or how they interact/play off that knowledge, we cannot know to what benefit they may be able to use this knowledge. Maybe they gain little, maybe they gain lots. Claiming would be a roll of the dice.

Ash's warning about the importance of flavor names combined with something in my own role description make me think that the Espheni faction probably has some sort of ability which makes it particularly useful for them to know player's flavor names. I would not roll these dice, at least not until We have a little more info.

towny vibe on Glooble this game

[MiX]

Quoting is hard on mobile, so here's my reply to SA.

"Have you two both played with pubby before? How new is he? (Is "he" definitely the correct pronoun, BTW?)"

Yes, he's played 2 games in fds and I believe a dozen otherwise, and yes.

"I think it's entirely reasonable, knowing nothing about pubby, to assume that it could be a rookie attempt at number-fishing by scum, yes."

I agree. I want to hear ADK before saying more.

"(I get that your question was pointed at e, but I think I'm picking up votes for my position on pubby too, so I feel like it's helpful to clarify)."

It was helpful indeed.

Okay, now the rest:

If pubby is scum I highly doubt he tries something like this without running it by his scumbuddies on Night zero. Given the general level of experience in this game, chances are pretty good there's at least one experienced scum player in that QT who would have said "that's clumsy and it'll backfire."

But maybe not, who knows.

Don't like the hedge; otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this post and it somewhat explains my read on pubby right now.

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

[faust]

Don't like the hedge; otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this post and it somewhat explains my read on pubby right now.

I have read all of your post and still have no idea what that read is.

[MiX]

Don't like the hedge; otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this post and it somewhat explains my read on pubby right now.

I have read all of your post and still have no idea what that read is.

Town.

[SpaceAnemone]

Quoting is hard on mobile, so here's my reply to SA.

FWIW, a quick note to players and mod, I much prefer being "Space" rather than "SA", if possible :-) Thanks!

"I think it's entirely reasonable, knowing nothing about pubby, to assume that it could be a rookie attempt at number-fishing by scum, yes."

I agree.

Just to clarify, are you agreeing that he looked a little scummy, or just that I'm justified in thinking it's a lottle scummy given that I don't know his play?

[MiX]

Quoting is hard on mobile, so here's my reply to SA.

FWIW, a quick note to players and mod, I much prefer being "Space" rather than "SA", if possible :-) Thanks!

"I think it's entirely reasonable, knowing nothing about pubby, to assume that it could be a rookie attempt at number-fishing by scum, yes."

I agree.

Just to clarify, are you agreeing that he looked a little scummy, or just that I'm justified in thinking it's a lottle scummy given that I don't know his play?

The latter, Space

I don't like short posts, so here's some filler: do you like how I adressed both parts in one line???

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.3:

MiX (2): Awaclus, pubby
Datswan (1): faust
space (2): ADK, MiX
pubby (1): 2.7

Not Voting (10): jotheonah, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, EFHW, SA, Glooble, gkrieg, shraeye

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[A Drowned Kernel]

something that I want to see if ADK thought of first.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about

Space putting suspicion on pubby without actually voting there seemed mildly scummy to me. It seems less scummy to me right now. I'm also curious to know why you think that I'm a person you want to sheep

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you not think it looks bad?

I didn't ask you to answer, did I?

So, what do you make of it, faust? Is it really just a bad joke?

Probably. The reactions to it have definitely been more enlightening than the thing itself.

Any thoughts on the subject you'd like to share?

[EFHW]

Is "a lottle" a new expression meaning the opposite of "a little"?

[EFHW]

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

I was puzzled by all the effort galz put into the number question.

I've noticed that you often seem to postpone pursuing your scumreads.

[pingpongsam]

I have read, and reread a couple of times. I guess I kind of picked up on some possible coordination between Datswan and Galz. MiX seems towny enough. I think Pubby knows something he isn’t posting but I don’t get scum vibes at all. Overall it seems like everyone has logical thoughts about the setup that mirror my own. I am expecting multi faction and likely multi ball even if limited to one shots like vigs or pgos. I skimmed some wiki and there are a ton of possible moving parts. I am willing to confirm knowledge of an item that exists in the game that I could make use of but do not currently have in my possession. I am not willing to name the item at this time.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh! Items! How interesting!

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

In other news, faust, I laughed out loud at your response to MiX’s inscrutable read. I’m also wondering why MiX is giving Galz side eye but gkrieg props....unless I am reading that wrong. Which could be, but I’m not finding the whole inscrutable thing very towny at all.

[faust]

Do you not think it looks bad?

I didn't ask you to answer, did I?

So, what do you make of it, faust? Is it really just a bad joke?

Probably. The reactions to it have definitely been more enlightening than the thing itself.

Any thoughts on the subject you'd like to share?

At this point, not so much, except I feel like Didds is town.

[faust]

Is "a lottle" a new expression meaning the opposite of "a little"?

I love it.

[faust]

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

[2.71828.....]

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

Yeah. I feel like plenty of people have done scummy things this game, it's just a matter of who is actually scum doing scummy things, or is it town doing scummy things.

[faust]

Let's just do some PoEing here.

faust
Awaclus
jotheonah
Galzria
WCD - kinda townie for the way she handled pubby
pps  - sufficiently PPSy.
Datswan
ADK - intriguing enough claim.
MiX
EFHW
SpaceAnemone - is not as townie as Didds but their reaction is similar, so good enough.
Glooble - joth said he's town
gkrieg
2.7 - need to keep someone around who might be killed N1 over me.
shraeye
pubby - weird enough to be town

And already down to 50%. Neat.

[MiX]

something that I want to see if ADK thought of first.

I actually have no idea what you're talking about

Space putting suspicion on pubby without actually voting there seemed mildly scummy to me. It seems less scummy to me right now. I'm also curious to know why you think that I'm a person you want to sheep

I voted because Space reminded me of when I was scum trying to push some suspicion onto pubby, I think his personality makes scum do that. Or maybe everyone does that, including town, which is why he's a great mislynch.

I sheeped you because I was hesitent in voting, but you did, so I thought my reason was good enough to vote.

Vote: Awaclus

[WestCoastDidds]

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

Okay, that’s fair. I will fully admit that my desire to know more is often bred from excitement and on a second or third think isn’t wise for the greater goal of finding scum. The sugar bowl should have taught me something!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Let's just do some PoEing here.

faust
Awaclus
jotheonah
Galzria
WCD - kinda townie for the way she handled pubby
pps  - sufficiently PPSy.
Datswan
ADK - intriguing enough claim.
MiX
EFHW
SpaceAnemone - is not as townie as Didds but their reaction is similar, so good enough.
Glooble - joth said he's town
gkrieg
2.7 - need to keep someone around who might be killed N1 over me.
shraeye
pubby - weird enough to be town

And already down to 50%. Neat.

I actually agree with a lot of this list, with the exception of e

[pubby]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

[faust]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

No, it would be a lot less useful then.

[EFHW]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

You want him to consider lynching himself?

[pingpongsam]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

You want him to consider lynching himself?

We've determined it's a huge scum tell if you don't include yourself on the list and make sure to emphasize your towniness.

[pubby]

If it were my list, faust would not be struck out. Do you think he's townie?

[MiX]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

You want him to consider lynching himself?

We've determined it's a huge scum tell if you don't include yourself on the list and make sure to emphasize your towniness.

Okay, okay, pps is town.

So who else wants to sheep my Awaclus case?

[EFHW]

If it were my list, faust would not be struck out. Do you think he's townie?

I can never tell with faust. But it doesn't make sense to say that to him. Do you think you are supposed to follow what he says?

[EFHW]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

You want him to consider lynching himself?

We've determined it's a huge scum tell if you don't include yourself on the list and make sure to emphasize your towniness.

Okay, okay, pps is town.

So who else wants to sheep my Awaclus case?

You mean that his only post has been an unexplained vote? I could be willing. I'd prefer to hear from him first.

[Glooble]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

[EFHW]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

True.

[jotheonah]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

He does it because we let him get away with it. Let's stop doing that. You don't just get to sit out day 1.

I could dig vote: Awaclus

[MiX]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

Did he post a V/LA anywhere? Because I expect at least 3 posts from him. If I had to guess, I would say he's third-party trying to lay low and react since he has no scumbuddies. Or he has a very specific PR. Regardless I think this is the actual best case.

[Galzria]

vote: MiX

I actually have a lot of town reads, but there’s a thing or two that have pinged me about MiX that makes him somewhere between least-townie & most-scummy.

[shraeye]

And now I'm sick, great.

[Awaclus]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

Did he post a V/LA anywhere? Because I expect at least 3 posts from him.

I'm not V/LA per say but my mind has been on other things recently (where other things = the KyoAni arson attack).

[MiX]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

Did he post a V/LA anywhere? Because I expect at least 3 posts from him.

I'm not V/LA per say but my mind has been on other things recently (where other things = the KyoAni arson attack).

Vote: Galzria

[SpaceAnemone]

TBH list would be better if you removed the strike from WCD, faust, and e.

vote: Awaclus

You want him to consider lynching himself?

We've determined it's a huge scum tell if you don't include yourself on the list and make sure to emphasize your towniness.

Okay, okay, pps is town.

So who else wants to sheep my Awaclus case?

I wanted to vote Awaclus because I had that "Hey, Awaclus is in this game? Really?" moment when I read faust's list. But then you voted for him and I felt like sheeping you would be a bad habit to adopt, so I didn't :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

Did he post a V/LA anywhere? Because I expect at least 3 posts from him.

I'm not V/LA per say but my mind has been on other things recently (where other things = the KyoAni arson attack).

It was pretty shocking :-(

Would you at least let us know whether you're familiar with the flavour and those kinds of basics?

[Awaclus]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

Did he post a V/LA anywhere? Because I expect at least 3 posts from him.

I'm not V/LA per say but my mind has been on other things recently (where other things = the KyoAni arson attack).

It was pretty shocking :-(

Would you at least let us know whether you're familiar with the flavour and those kinds of basics?

I'm not familiar with the flavor.

[WestCoastDidds]

Shraeye, I hope you feel better soon. The post-vacation struggle is real. Awa, I’m sorry that the world has been not awesome.

MiX, why Galz? I don’t hate it, but some explanation would help.

[jotheonah]

unvote

[Swowl]

Oh! Items! How interesting!

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

So I have not really played in a ton of specifically "Asher RMMs"... but I have found that typically items kind of scale out on either side of the spectrum. In my experience, it goes one of two ways:

Power Item - There is super powerful item that normally needs to end up in the right pair of hands, or be combined with another item (or more I guess), in order to like "activate".

Nothing Item - Items that just literally do nothing and waste time and energy. Best example I can think of is a Faust RMM a while back where they put the ability to "freeze" a player in to play (I think it was Ashes that got frozen actually), and then they put the item of "Flint" in play. Wasted a ton of time trying to figure out how to use to flint to make a fire or whatever in order to "unfreeze" Ashes. In the end... the flint literally  did nothing and had no potential to do anything.


I think that focusing on items, based on my experience thus far, kind of leans towards benefiting skum. Does anyone agree with that? I do not have a ton of RMM exp...
My reasoning is pretty much based on the concept that we don't ever get to weigh the risk-reward of the item before being able to potentially use it.

Moreover, to get to the point where we could potentially use said item we have to do the whole "will the real slim shady please stand up" bit... which of course gives a world of info to skum, gives them CC options, fake claim options, angles to push.... and all of it is without knowing what the potential upside will be generally.

I am not saying not to focus on items EVER... but probably this early it is better to leave it aside for the time being.

[Swowl]

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

I was reading up backwards and just hit this.

TLDR my previous post - I agree with Faust on this one.

[faust]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

He does it because we let him get away with it. Let's stop doing that. You don't just get to sit out day 1.

I could dig vote: Awaclus

I can tell you that regardless of surrounding circumstances, you won't change his behaviour.

[Swowl]

I just had a thought regarding number claiming - I think it would be a good idea if when at L-1 (or possibly in twilight?) it would be a good idea if we all claimed out our number ranking that is associated with our role (maybe even the info on why, if you have it?).

I do not think it should really be used as a reason to not lynch that player, as skum would obviously lie when on the block. However, if they flip skum, we know they were lying and we disregard it.... but, if the player flips town we then have a piece of the puzzle that would not be given to us on a standard flip.

Thoughts on that? I can think of a downside or two, but the idea seems to have far more upsides imo.

[Swowl]

hm... actually I may take back that last bit after reading the set up again.

Ash - Do players flip with their number ranking announced?

[faust]

I think there is way too much thought and weight put on those numbers. They are there for people who don't know the flavor to get a sense of the role their character has in the narrative and the only thing claiming them achieves is allowing people with flavor knowledge to narrow down which character you might be. We should not claim them unless we are also prepared to claim our flavor name, and we should concern ourselves with more important things, like scumhunting.

[faust]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

[2.71828.....]

Oh! Items! How interesting!

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

So I have not really played in a ton of specifically "Asher RMMs"... but I have found that typically items kind of scale out on either side of the spectrum. In my experience, it goes one of two ways:

Power Item - There is super powerful item that normally needs to end up in the right pair of hands, or be combined with another item (or more I guess), in order to like "activate".

Nothing Item - Items that just literally do nothing and waste time and energy. Best example I can think of is a Faust RMM a while back where they put the ability to "freeze" a player in to play (I think it was Ashes that got frozen actually), and then they put the item of "Flint" in play. Wasted a ton of time trying to figure out how to use to flint to make a fire or whatever in order to "unfreeze" Ashes. In the end... the flint literally  did nothing and had no potential to do anything.


I think that focusing on items, based on my experience thus far, kind of leans towards benefiting skum. Does anyone agree with that? I do not have a ton of RMM exp...
My reasoning is pretty much based on the concept that we don't ever get to weigh the risk-reward of the item before being able to potentially use it.

Moreover, to get to the point where we could potentially use said item we have to do the whole "will the real slim shady please stand up" bit... which of course gives a world of info to skum, gives them CC options, fake claim options, angles to push.... and all of it is without knowing what the potential upside will be generally.

I am not saying not to focus on items EVER... but probably this early it is better to leave it aside for the time being.

I think Dune mafia town needed to talk/communicate more about items than they did.  But items were fairly essential to town survival in that game.  That being said, I don't think that there is anything in this setup that would make items so key that they need to be the main focus.  But I could be wrong.

Weighing it all together I do fall on the "don't talk about items" side of the camp.  On the other hand, I am 100% in the camp of "If town has something that they want to claim - claim it" but no one should be forced to claim anything D1.  Or even D2.  Maybe something on D3, but that is dependent on how the game progresses.

[2.71828.....]

I just had a thought regarding number claiming - I think it would be a good idea if when at L-1 (or possibly in twilight?) it would be a good idea if we all claimed out our number ranking that is associated with our role (maybe even the info on why, if you have it?).

I do not think it should really be used as a reason to not lynch that player, as skum would obviously lie when on the block. However, if they flip skum, we know they were lying and we disregard it.... but, if the player flips town we then have a piece of the puzzle that would not be given to us on a standard flip.

Thoughts on that? I can think of a downside or two, but the idea seems to have far more upsides imo.

I don't think numbers associated with flavor work as a "piece of the puzzle"

Basically, I don't think Ashersky went into the game thinking "I have three 1s, two 2s, one 3 4 and 5, etc...."

So not a fan of the idea.

[2.71828.....]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

[faust]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

I don't think this line of thinking points to scum!Swan, I think the lack of thinking about who is scum does.

[ashersky]

Ash - Do players flip with their number ranking announced?

No.

[Swowl]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

I don't think this line of thinking points to scum!Swan, I think the lack of thinking about who is scum does.

1) I did not realize your vote was currently on me (though you are correct, obviously)... regardless, it had nothing to do with the statement I made - so weigh that one on it's own merits.

2) I am doing as much thinking as I ever do on Day 1 about who is skum. I just don't have anything to go on yet.

Also, my idea has great merit for skum hunting. I am not saying it to be defensive, but because I think it should be considered. Ash has now confirmed that the number does not flip. I also do not at all agree that Ash just "randomly put the number component in for people that do not know the flavor". Ash made it crystal clear in the OP that if you don't know the show you will be at a disadvantage.


@ Faust - all that everything aside. What is the downside to the idea I brought up? Why would it not be beneficial to Town? I get you don't want to spend time on it, but on the off chance that I am correct about the rankings having meaning ... this is kind of the time we need to discuss it.

Someone is gonna get lynched.
They claim a number.
a) they flip town - so they told the truth and we know that info.
b) they flip not town - we assume they lied and we know what we would of known anyways without the number claim.

after we have the info we can choose to place the weight we want on it... however, the other way around is a faulty syllogism.

[Swowl]

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

I was puzzled by all the effort galz put into the number question.

I've noticed that you often seem to postpone pursuing your scumreads.

Is your skum read on Galz based on the effort put into the post content or based on the fact that it was Galz that did it?

[faust]

I also do not at all agree that Ash just "randomly put the number component in for people that do not know the flavor".

For players unfamiliar with the show, each flavor name will be accompanied by a ranking from 1 to 10.

(bolding mine)

[faust]

And it's not beneficial because they might not be lynched after all and then the info is out with no benefit to us. I mean if someone is going to claim their role, sure, claim the number if you want. But if there is a reason to not role-claim, there is also a reason to not number-claim.

[MiX]

MiX, why Galz? I don’t hate it, but some explanation would help.

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much.

Was my explanation of my scumread, and it's still in effect.


I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum, but I haven't reread our scum game to see what scum!faust did that was unique to him being scum. I might do it this (ingame) day, but I doubt it, so I will give faust a day 1 pass.

[faust]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

[pingpongsam]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

Damn, now I am not sure if I should be voting Swan or Mix.

[MiX]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

I don't think this is scum!Swan behavior and I think I can read him well. As for your case, I don't think heavy-setup-related-no-scumhunting posts are scumtells for Swan at all, if not the contrary.

[faust]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

I don't think this is scum!Swan behavior and I think I can read him well. As for your case, I don't think heavy-setup-related-no-scumhunting posts are scumtells for Swan at all, if not the contrary.

So does it make me scum for a reason other than you disagree with me?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't swan focusing so much on numbers at this point is scummy (I also think that we're past the point where it's useful)

I don't think faust voting for swan is scummy

I do think that mix calling faust scummy (and then not voting) is in fact scummy

vote: mix

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum, but I haven't reread our scum game to see what scum!faust did that was unique to him being scum. I might do it this (ingame) day, but I doubt it, so I will give faust a day 1 pass.

I don’t usually sit so close to ADK, but I’m feeling what they are laying down on this. Plus I think giving someone they explicitly find scummy a pass is sketch.

Vote: MiX

[Glooble]

I'm in for this wagon. Was actually thinking about it before ADK said anything.

vote: MiX

[faust]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

[EFHW]

vote count please!

[MiX]

Are you serious? No I don't put random pressure on faust as scum, it's absolutely pointless! I sheep, buddy and sheep him again! Think about this wagon for a second before you resume it, please.

(Checks votes) 5 votes? You guys never fail me. Great streak I have, getting a sizeable wagon every D1, even when I don't want to.

PPE 2: What faust said.

[jotheonah]

Well this is awkward. The game I finally wear not to trust my reads and pledge to artificially townread MiX, suddenly everybody else finally thinks he's scummy.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: wcd

[EFHW]

vote: wcd

Your thoughts?

[MiX]

vote: wcd

Vote: Didds

ADK is so town this game. But Galz is scummier...I think. Yeah.

[jotheonah]

Y'all are crazy. This is town Didds fo sho.

[Glooble]

Well this is awkward. The game I finally wear not to trust my reads and pledge to artificially townread MiX, suddenly everybody else finally thinks he's scummy.

One of the reasons I'm voting MiX right now is that he's not acting... MiX-like. I can't put my finger on exactly what the difference is, which is frustrating to me. Town!MiX has this devil-may-care, say something scummy to get reactions, stream-of-consciousness attitude and I just don't see it this game.

'Course that might just be that he's sick of always attracting so much suspicion and has decided to play more cautiously. Metas do evolve.

(Checks votes) 5 votes? You guys never fail me. Great streak I have, getting a sizeable wagon every D1, even when I don't want to.

And yet we never actually lynch you day 1.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.4:

MiX (4): Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, Glooble
Datswan (1): faust
pubby (1): 2.7
Awaclus (1): pubby
Galzria (1): MiX
WCD (1): ADK

Not Voting (7): PPS, Datswan, EFHW, SA, gkrieg, shraeye, joth

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: wcd

Your thoughts?

I'm a little spooked by people voting quickly after me

[Galzria]

Y'all are crazy. This is town Didds fo sho.

[faust]

Vote: Galzria

[Galzria]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

[faust]

Beat you

[Galzria]

Beat you

That’s ok. Turtles > Hares. 

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: wcd

Your thoughts?

I'm a little spooked by people voting quickly after me

That's fair and I even said that I do't normally sit this close to you, but for me, I think the timing was more of a case that we are on a similar game-play availability schedule.  I got up, read through everything that had transpired since I had gone to bed, didn't like MiX giving faust a pass in conjunction with the other stuff and then voted.  It really had less to do with you and more with the fact that we are mid-way through the day and I hadn't voted yet, so I felt like I needed to start committing to my reads. 9 to lynch, and deadline over the weekend, is going to take a lot so I think it isn't helpful for people to not be voting.

My other inclinations are Shraeye and Galzria, but there is less to point to in those cases. 

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, wait....it says deadline is next Wednesday (7/31). Is that right? Well, then, it's not over the weekend.

[pubby]

vote: MiX

[MiX]

Well this is awkward. The game I finally wear not to trust my reads and pledge to artificially townread MiX, suddenly everybody else finally thinks he's scummy.

One of the reasons I'm voting MiX right now is that he's not acting... MiX-like. I can't put my finger on exactly what the difference is, which is frustrating to me. Town!MiX has this devil-may-care, say something scummy to get reactions, stream-of-consciousness attitude and I just don't see it this game.

'Course that might just be that he's sick of always attracting so much suspicion and has decided to play more cautiously. Metas do evolve.

Nah I like my meta, but I also like controlling it: didn't expect all this for a D1 faust pass. Also learn from your twin on how to read me: always town 

PPE 1

[EFHW]

I just had a thought regarding number claiming - I think it would be a good idea if when at L-1 (or possibly in twilight?) it would be a good idea if we all claimed out our number ranking that is associated with our role (maybe even the info on why, if you have it?).

You said "good idea if we all claimed" - by "we" do you mean when a specific player is at L-1 or has been lynched, that person should share their number? It sounds like you are saying when someone reaches L-1, everyone should claim their number. I don't know if that's part of the negative reaction you are getting here.

[MiX]

Quotes take forever and I'm tired of them

GLOOBLE: Yes, you never lynch me day 1, it's proof I've improved since my first game.

GALZRIA: You talk about PRs a lot: I'm pretty sure flavor roles are much more than indicators of what powers they have. You know who would like to hide that information? Scum.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

[EFHW]

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

I was puzzled by all the effort galz put into the number question.

I've noticed that you often seem to postpone pursuing your scumreads.

Is your skum read on Galz based on the effort put into the post content or based on the fact that it was Galz that did it?

Both

[Galzria]

Quotes take forever and I'm tired of them

GLOOBLE: Yes, you never lynch me day 1, it's proof I've improved since my first game.

GALZRIA: You talk about PRs a lot: I'm pretty sure flavor roles are much more than indicators of what powers they have. You know who would like to hide that information? Scum.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

I’ve spoken almost nothing of PR’s. I’ve spoken exactly nothing about flavor names. The only thing related to which I’ve spoken is flavor scores - and in relation to how effective knowing them MIGHT help guide our PR’s to be most effective at night. A post made only because it was asked directly of me to elucidate on possible upsides after I stated that I hadn’t really had the time to think about it one way or another. That is the only post on any part of the subject that I have made thus far. Your characterization that I’m highly focused on this subject, or talk about it a lot, is simply untrue. Much like your mid-characterizations of a number of people thus far. Hence why I’m more than happy to lynch you.

[pingpongsam]

Quotes take forever and I'm tired of them

GLOOBLE: Yes, you never lynch me day 1, it's proof I've improved since my first game.

GALZRIA: You talk about PRs a lot: I'm pretty sure flavor roles are much more than indicators of what powers they have. You know who would like to hide that information? Scum.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

I’ve spoken almost nothing of PR’s. I’ve spoken exactly nothing about flavor names. The only thing related to which I’ve spoken is flavor scores - and in relation to how effective knowing them MIGHT help guide our PR’s to be most effective at night. A post made only because it was asked directly of me to elucidate on possible upsides after I stated that I hadn’t really had the time to think about it one way or another. That is the only post on any part of the subject that I have made thus far. Your characterization that I’m highly focused on this subject, or talk about it a lot, is simply untrue. Much like your mid-characterizations of a number of people thus far. Hence why I’m more than happy to lynch you.

All of this. Mix does seem to be trying spread scumFUD as wide as possible.

More to the point Vote: Mix

[WestCoastDidds]

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

I don't have a case, just an inclination.  And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think). But at some point, he will go from being not around because life to not around because he's scum laying low. So, no case, he's just on my radar in the same way that Awaclus is.

PPE: Galz's response to this post is awesome. 

[jotheonah]

another somewhat lurker I'd like to take a look at is gkreig.

I think in a town this big, scum is laying low. But I also think it's probably true there's at least one scum on the MiX wagon by now.

We have enough content now to make a reread meaningful. I just wish I had time to do one.

[Awaclus]

And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think)

You don't believe him?

[faust]

another somewhat lurker I'd like to take a look at is gkreig.

I think in a town this big, scum is laying low. But I also think it's probably true there's at least one scum on the MiX wagon by now.

We have enough content now to make a reread meaningful. I just wish I had time to do one.

This is such an empty comment. Vaguely pointing at lurkers. (where, whether or not scum is laying low has nothing to do with the size of town and everything to do with who the scum are), vaguely pointing at a large wagon saying there is scum on it, which is almost the most generic statement I can imagine.

[pingpongsam]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

[pingpongsam]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

I mean, by the same token, faust/swan interaction could ostensibly be distancing; I'd have to study closer. Even in that scenario, Mix is the overt scum monger.

[MiX]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

I mean, by the same token, faust/swan interaction could ostensibly be distancing; I'd have to study closer. Even in that scenario, Mix is the overt scum monger.

Is it distancing if I defend Swan so much that I scumread faust for it?

[WestCoastDidds]

And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think)

You don't believe him?

I believe him. No reason not to.

[faust]

It hurts my feelings how you respond to every little thing people post but ignore my question, MiX.

[faust]

And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think)

You don't believe him?

I believe him. No reason not to.

Another double negation? Have you learned nothing from Awaclus's confusion?!

[WestCoastDidds]

And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think)

You don't believe him?

I believe him. No reason not to.

I don’t think people are untruthful about VLA, illness, or life. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

[MiX]

It hurts my feelings how you respond to every little thing people post but ignore my question, MiX.

I don't read everything. What's your question?

[MiX]

Oh I found it.

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

I don't think this is scum!Swan behavior and I think I can read him well. As for your case, I don't think heavy-setup-related-no-scumhunting posts are scumtells for Swan at all, if not the contrary.

So does it make me scum for a reason other than you disagree with me?

No, I just think you're doing faust things, and my recollection of your scum game is faust things, so I matched the two. That plus the disagreement part.

[jotheonah]

another somewhat lurker I'd like to take a look at is gkreig.

I think in a town this big, scum is laying low. But I also think it's probably true there's at least one scum on the MiX wagon by now.

We have enough content now to make a reread meaningful. I just wish I had time to do one.

This is such an empty comment. Vaguely pointing at lurkers. (where, whether or not scum is laying low has nothing to do with the size of town and everything to do with who the scum are), vaguely pointing at a large wagon saying there is scum on it, which is almost the most generic statement I can imagine.

they can't all be winners

[SpaceAnemone]

I also do not at all agree that Ash just "randomly put the number component in for people that do not know the flavor". Ash made it crystal clear in the OP that if you don't know the show you will be at a disadvantage.

I honestly think the number is just there to give those of us who know zilch about the flavour a helping hand in gauging how townie we'd sound if we came out with our flavour name, given that he's made it explicit that name has to be considered part of the role. I really don't think there's a further secret to the numbers, and I'm saying that as someone who loves playing with numbers...

I'm not sure there's any value in a townperson claiming their number if they're about to get lynched or in twilight, as long as we don't expect that number to sway the lynch away from them in any way. After all, they have other stuff about their role that they can presumably say if they really need to sway people. That's also why it's useful to know ahead of time which players have an independent sense of the towniness of different claimed names and stuff.. obviously we need to know a set of players who'll be able to offer opinions on those, since we never know exactly whom to trust.

[SpaceAnemone]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

I think the Swan-MiX interaction is mostly just two people being noisy and generating content. I don't particularly agree with the directions Swan's trying to go with things, but also I agree with Galz's MiX put-down. Actually I think an Ash-RMM setup easily has the potential for both of them to have anti-town wincons without necessarily even being partners. I'm not sure that helps me at all with the question of where to put my vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

Actually, let's go with vote: MiX, now that I've looked at the count and subsequent votes, and reassured myself it's not an early derphammer.

[jotheonah]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.5:

MiX (6): Awaclus, WCD, Glooble, pubby, PPS, Space
pubby (1): 2.7
Galzria (2): MiX, faust
WCD (1): ADK
faust (1): Galzria
Space (1): joth

Not Voting (4): Datswan, EFHW, gkrieg, shraeye

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[pubby]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

I actually agree but I want to know what you think of MiX.

[faust]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

That is just a Space tell.

[Swowl]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

I actually agree but I want to know what you think of MiX.

Have you played many games with space, Pubby?

[Swowl]

General note - if the number was ONLY there to help players that know nothing about the flavor - ashes would of flipped the number when players flip to keep it fair for unknowing players. As that is the the case, i doubt it is only for “unknowing players” purposes.

[Swowl]

Edit: as that is NOT the case...

[Awaclus]

Why would ash have to flip it to keep it fair to unknowing players?

[Swowl]

Why would ash have to flip it to keep it fair to unknowing players?

That is what i am saying.
Faust quoted the OP saying number are there for new players.
I asked ash if they flip numbers. Ash said no.


My point is that if ash put the number in ONLY to help unknowing players, then logic would follow that they would want that info public to “balance” the game. But it isn’t public. So it is probably a thing that matters.

[Swowl]

Why would ash have to flip it to keep it fair to unknowing players?

Also bc the OP literally says “numbers are here to help players that don’t know the game”. Contradicting points, but you should probz read the OP of the game you are in.

[faust]

Why would ash have to flip it to keep it fair to unknowing players?

That is what i am saying.
Faust quoted the OP saying number are there for new players.
I asked ash if they flip numbers. Ash said no.


My point is that if ash put the number in ONLY to help unknowing players, then logic would follow that they would want that info public to “balance” the game. But it isn’t public. So it is probably a thing that matters.

So you suggest ash lied in the setup post?

[Awaclus]

My point is that if ash put the number in ONLY to help unknowing players, then logic would follow that they would want that info public to “balance” the game. But it isn’t public. So it is probably a thing that matters.

How does flipping that info affect the balance of the game?

[Swowl]

Ok i feel like i am being mid understood.

I am saying that if ash put a mechanic in the game, that was then chosen to not be made 100% public, the mechanic most likely has value to solving the game.


Does that clarify?

[faust]

Ok i feel like i am being mid understood.

I am saying that if ash put a mechanic in the game, that was then chosen to not be made 100% public, the mechanic most likely has value to solving the game.


Does that clarify?

Well let me tell you that as a mod you actually want to flip the info thatt is relevant to solving the game. That's why roles and alignment are usually flipped.

Also you don't want to lie.

[MiX]

Swan gets the setup wrong Every. Single. Time. and it's crazy to what lenghts he goes to do this. No, players thay don't know the flavor don't need to know anyone else's number but their own, because when others flip, they can publically ask how towny that flavor was to everyone else.


Also I need to reread Galz.

[SpaceAnemone]

Swan gets the setup wrong Every. Single. Time. and it's crazy to what lenghts he goes to do this.

Are you meaning to imply that he's doing it deliberately?

I honestly feel more like he's just getting to his opinions by thinking about it kind of sideways compared to how most of the rest of us are approaching it. Having diversity of opinions is great, so I'd encourage that, though I do think in this case it's unlikely to lead to anything useful.

No, players thay don't know the flavor don't need to know anyone else's number but their own, because when others flip, they can publically ask how towny that flavor was to everyone else.

I agree with this. Also, by the time any of us flips, maybe Ash just doesn't think the hidden information of how townie he thought our flavour names were is relevant any more, because presumably we do flip with our actual roles, and the important thematic link Ash has made is between character and role, rather than necessarily character and towniness and then towniness and role.

[SpaceAnemone]

Have you played many games with space, Pubby?

We've definitely played zero games together, but I have no idea if he's read any of the games I've played in. Presumably not? :-P

I've also never read anything Pubby's played in, because I'm terrible at reading any of the games I'm not actively taking part in. I don't even know the basics like approximate age or location.

[MiX]

Swan gets the setup wrong Every. Single. Time. and it's crazy to what lenghts he goes to do this.

Are you meaning to imply that he's doing it deliberately?

No, otherwise I would be voting for him. It's still interesting how he always has a different opinion, even to things I thought were apparent.


I think space's town now. Well done.

[jotheonah]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

I actually agree but I want to know what you think of MiX.

1. MiX always comes off scummy and is usually town.
2. MiX is reading no scummiest than normal to me this game.
3. I’m weary of the size and speed of the MiX wagon.

All that adds up to a likely mislynches to me and I’d like to look elsewhere.

[Glooble]

1. MiX always comes off scummy and is usually town.

Exactly. This game MiX is coming off towny, ergo he must be scum.

jk, but seriously he just feels off to me. Like he's playing too cautiously for MiX.

[Glooble]

That being said, the wagon did build pretty quickly. I'll unvote for now. But I'm not sold on Space.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was reading the vote count and went "e is in this game?"

Which makes me want to vote: e

[faust]

I was reading the vote count and went "e is in this game?"

Which makes me want to vote: e

Why not gkrieg?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was reading the vote count and went "e is in this game?"

Which makes me want to vote: e

Why not gkrieg?

Why not e?

[pingpongsam]

That being said, the wagon did build pretty quickly. I'll unvote for now. But I'm not sold on Space.

Building fast is not the thing. Hanging at the end and not being able to push through is the thing. Garnering early suspicion D1 to see it dissipate and never return is common and easy to exploit. Speaking of exploiting, I'm even more suspicious of those who would run up the wagon and then jump off as it does the early suspicion trick and accomplishes vote distancing between partners at the same time. As I recall, Mix opened the game voting joth which he then leverages the lack of joth's reaction to say joth must be town. Glooble's opening interactions were around Mix as well. Scum team identified?

[faust]

I was reading the vote count and went "e is in this game?"

Which makes me want to vote: e

Why not gkrieg?

Why not e?

I felt that e has done more than gkrieg, so it felt strange that you were singling him out.

Also I'm mad at gkrieg for signing up to a game when he kew he had extended VLA upcoming.

[WestCoastDidds]

I felt that e has done more than gkrieg, so it felt strange that you were singling him out.

Also I'm mad at gkrieg for signing up to a game when he kew he had extended VLA upcoming.

I had forgotten that...so for anyone who doesn't want to have to go look at the VLA board, it says that gkrieg is out for work until the 26. (It also says that both he and faust are in Switzerland which I think is fancy!)

As far as the not-arounds, I think e has made some contributions while both Shraeye and Gkrieg just haven't. As I learned yesterday, this day is super long (deadline is 7/31) so they could still show up, but it is frustrating for sure.

[Glooble]

That being said, the wagon did build pretty quickly. I'll unvote for now. But I'm not sold on Space.

Building fast is not the thing. Hanging at the end and not being able to push through is the thing. Garnering early suspicion D1 to see it dissipate and never return is common and easy to exploit. Speaking of exploiting, I'm even more suspicious of those who would run up the wagon and then jump off as it does the early suspicion trick and accomplishes vote distancing between partners at the same time. As I recall, Mix opened the game voting joth which he then leverages the lack of joth's reaction to say joth must be town. Glooble's opening interactions were around Mix as well. Scum team identified?

Sorry what? My opening interactions were pretty clearly around the setup claim discussion and pubby. I don't reference or interact with MiX until my fourth or fifth post.

[jotheonah]

That being said, the wagon did build pretty quickly. I'll unvote for now. But I'm not sold on Space.

Building fast is not the thing. Hanging at the end and not being able to push through is the thing. Garnering early suspicion D1 to see it dissipate and never return is common and easy to exploit. Speaking of exploiting, I'm even more suspicious of those who would run up the wagon and then jump off as it does the early suspicion trick and accomplishes vote distancing between partners at the same time. As I recall, Mix opened the game voting joth which he then leverages the lack of joth's reaction to say joth must be town. Glooble's opening interactions were around Mix as well. Scum team identified?

This is a good (but at least partially wrong) take.

[jotheonah]

But there’s no way Glooble’s 312 and 313 come from Mix’s partner.

If it were just one of those posts, I’d be on board. But defending his vote and then changing his mind and backing off of it? It’s too stream-of-consciousness and unfocused for scum. Scum either commits to the wagon (312) or backs off of it (313). But doing both in rapid succession is a total town move.

[faust]

(It also says that both he and faust are in Switzerland which I think is fancy!)

It is fancy, and very expensive. I paid like 60€ for a conference dinner and it wasn't even good! I'm already back now.

[faust]

Hey EFHW, you seem to be scumreading Galzria, but you're not voting. Want to make a wagon?

[EFHW]

Hey EFHW, you seem to be scumreading Galzria, but you're not voting. Want to make a wagon?

I've been considering it. I need to decide about MiX first, since he is also on that wagon. Then joth raised the Space question, and I've been pondering that as well.

[Swowl]

Swan gets the setup wrong Every. Single. Time. and it's crazy to what lenghts he goes to do this. No, players thay don't know the flavor don't need to know anyone else's number but their own, because when others flip, they can publically ask how towny that flavor was to everyone else.

OK I see your point - However, to make it clear that is not me "messing up the set up". I just think there is more value in the number system than others seem to believe.

[shraeye]

Ok. 
# Claims:
1. pps, ADK have their numbers out there.  I think they both are town, not necessarily connected ideas.
2. faust makes classic faust-questions here; good on him
3. Glooble's response looks the worst.  #119: too polished; too reasonable; too non-specific; too something.

Items:
1. Boooo DatSwan
2. DatSwan brings up items, faust tries to shut it down (pro-move)
3. Almost everybody does, except Didds (boo) and pps (town).
4. DatSwan agrees with faust

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

I agree with Faust on this one.

5. Dude, YOU brought it up, and YOU made the massive post about what types of items might exist.

Pubby:
1. he's town
2. who's voted for him? Faust and E, although not scummily
3. but who's talking about it? Mostly WCD it seems.  With A LOT of "feels weird" "seems off" "very strange".  That's scummy

lurkers:
1. I'm VERY interested in hearing what non-sick-related case you have on me.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

And I have no reason to believe he isn't feeling well (what he said yesterday, I think)

You don't believe him?

I believe him.

2. seriously?

another somewhat lurker I'd like to take a look at is gkreig.

Glooble:
1. he's scum
2. #119 is bad
3. #166 is bad
4. #259 is bad
5. Too much polish and precision
6. The vote/unvote on MiX is also just tooooooo self-conscious

[shraeye]

My disagree list:

I think it's entirely reasonable, knowing nothing about pubby, to assume that it could be a rookie attempt at number-fishing by scum, yes.

I think it's entirely unreasonable.

But Galz is scummier...I think. Yeah.

whyyyyyy?  Because he said the words "PR"??  That's just silly.  Galz did a big-ol'-I'm-town analysis of a thing; you took the wrongest conclusion from it all

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

I was puzzled by all the effort galz put into the number question.

I've noticed that you often seem to postpone pursuing your scumreads.

See above; town-Galz does this.

towny vibe on Glooble this game

check your vibe-o-meter.

[shraeye]

My agree list:

I'm against number claiming. Giving ADK townpoints, though.

So, what do you make of it, faust? Is it really just a bad joke?

Probably. The reactions to it have definitely been more enlightening than the thing itself.

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

Quotes take forever and I'm tired of them

GLOOBLE: Yes, you never lynch me day 1, it's proof I've improved since my first game.

GALZRIA: You talk about PRs a lot: I'm pretty sure flavor roles are much more than indicators of what powers they have. You know who would like to hide that information? Scum.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

I’ve spoken almost nothing of PR’s. I’ve spoken exactly nothing about flavor names. The only thing related to which I’ve spoken is flavor scores - and in relation to how effective knowing them MIGHT help guide our PR’s to be most effective at night. A post made only because it was asked directly of me to elucidate on possible upsides after I stated that I hadn’t really had the time to think about it one way or another. That is the only post on any part of the subject that I have made thus far. Your characterization that I’m highly focused on this subject, or talk about it a lot, is simply untrue. Much like your mid-characterizations of a number of people thus far. Hence why I’m more than happy to lynch you.

All of this. Mix does seem to be trying spread scumFUD as wide as possible.

More to the point Vote: Mix

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

That is just a Space tell.

[shraeye]

That being said, the wagon did build pretty quickly. I'll unvote for now. But I'm not sold on Space.

Building fast is not the thing. Hanging at the end and not being able to push through is the thing. Garnering early suspicion D1 to see it dissipate and never return is common and easy to exploit. Speaking of exploiting, I'm even more suspicious of those who would run up the wagon and then jump off as it does the early suspicion trick and accomplishes vote distancing between partners at the same time. As I recall, Mix opened the game voting joth which he then leverages the lack of joth's reaction to say joth must be town. Glooble's opening interactions were around Mix as well. Scum team identified?

It is entirely possible that you are right. 

MiX is machine gunning suspicion, snap-OMGUS-voted Galz and Awaclus, and is hella suspicious based on interactions from Glooble. 
Joth (scummy in his own way) trying to say there can't be a MiX/Glooble link is in no way convincing.

[Glooble]

Glooble:
1. he's scum
2. #119 is bad
3. #166 is bad
4. #259 is bad

All three of those posts are heartbnreaking works of staggering genius and you're just jealous you didn't make them yourself.

[shraeye]

nice reference

[Glooble]

I have read, and reread a couple of times. I guess I kind of picked up on some possible coordination between Datswan and Galz. MiX seems towny enough. I think Pubby knows something he isn’t posting but I don’t get scum vibes at all. Overall it seems like everyone has logical thoughts about the setup that mirror my own. I am expecting multi faction and likely multi ball even if limited to one shots like vigs or pgos. I skimmed some wiki and there are a ton of possible moving parts. I am willing to confirm knowledge of an item that exists in the game that I could make use of but do not currently have in my possession. I am not willing to name the item at this time.

I'm actually going to vote:pps for two reasons. 1, the post above is scummy - duh pubby knows something he isn't posting, it's a role madness game, we all do, plus pubby's post 128 confirms it. This whole post has "trying to say something so I don't end up the lurker lynch without actually saying anything useful" written all over it.


2. He is calling scum teams left and right. Swan/Galz above. Swan/Mix in 280. faust/Swan in 281. me/ MiX/ joth in 317. Is this normal pps behavior? Seems like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks to me.

[jotheonah]

that was sure a lot of words from shraeye. want to give us a TL;DR?

[jotheonah]

Joth (scummy in his own way) trying to say there can't be a MiX/Glooble link is in no way convincing.

You know, I'd rather not be scummy. But if I'm going to be scummy, I'm glad I'm scummy in my own way.

[pingpongsam]

2. He is calling scum teams left and right. Swan/Galz above. Swan/Mix in 280. faust/Swan in 281. me/ MiX/ joth in 317. Is this normal pps behavior? Seems like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks to me.

Yes, calling scum teams D1 is my thing regardless of alignment. I don't recall implicating Galzria, though.

[pingpongsam]

2. He is calling scum teams left and right. Swan/Galz above. Swan/Mix in 280. faust/Swan in 281. me/ MiX/ joth in 317. Is this normal pps behavior? Seems like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks to me.

Yes, calling scum teams D1 is my thing regardless of alignment. I don't recall implicating Galzria, though.

Oh, right, gotcha. Coordination doesn't mean scum, dude. Considering the number of players and source material I am betting on multiple factions some of which may be more or less town aligned. My implication there was that the two seemed to be of the same accord, not necessarily that they were scummy. I suppose my intro to that post was that I was putting in substantially more effort than the last game and that I had studied up enough to feel confident opening discussion about items.

[MiX]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble. The scummiest person right now is.....

No one! But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW. Who wants to make a grand Glooble case?

[WestCoastDidds]

Shraeye!  Welcome back, we have missed you.  I hope that you are feeling better.

Glooble, the heartbreaking work of staggering genius reference was amaze. +3

Faust, no one should have to pay that much for conference food, ever.  I am convinced everyone stays in Switzerland for exactly as long as they have to before fleeing its beautiful lands for less costly ones, unless they earn Switzerland money, in which case they might stay marginally longer.

I agree with many of Shraeye's agrees and disagrees, but I am not sure I see much point in it yet (which is fair, I think, if he is just catching up and/or on cold medicine) but it is interesting to notice how closely he is tracking with faust.  I am not yet swayed by the not-MiX crowd, and I am not at all sure about the quality of Glooble's pps vote, although I don't find Glooble particularly scummy for making it.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.6:

MiX (5): Awaclus, WCD, pubby, PPS, Space
pubby (1): 2.7
Galzria (1): faust
faust (1): Galzria
Space (1): joth
2.7 (1) ADK
PPS (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX

Not Voting (4): Datswan, EFHW, gkrieg, shraeye

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[ashersky]

I have read, and reread a couple of times. I guess I kind of picked up on some possible coordination between Datswan and Galz. MiX seems towny enough. I think Pubby knows something he isn’t posting but I don’t get scum vibes at all. Overall it seems like everyone has logical thoughts about the setup that mirror my own. I am expecting multi faction and likely multi ball even if limited to one shots like vigs or pgos. I skimmed some wiki and there are a ton of possible moving parts. I am willing to confirm knowledge of an item that exists in the game that I could make use of but do not currently have in my possession. I am not willing to name the item at this time.

I'm actually going to vote:pps for two reasons. 1, the post above is scummy - duh pubby knows something he isn't posting, it's a role madness game, we all do, plus pubby's post 128 confirms it. This whole post has "trying to say something so I don't end up the lurker lynch without actually saying anything useful" written all over it.


2. He is calling scum teams left and right. Swan/Galz above. Swan/Mix in 280. faust/Swan in 281. me/ MiX/ joth in 317. Is this normal pps behavior? Seems like throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks to me.

I counted this vote (and will always count them if I see them), but in general, please watch the spaces.  Also, if players could not embed votes within paragraphs, that makes my life easier.

Thanks.

[2.71828.....]

Shraeye's posts are great. Not lynching today

[faust]

Good to see shraeye here. However, stop agreeing with me so much. It's irritating, I'm supposed to fight you.

[faust]

Shraeye's posts are great. Not lynching today

Do you have anything else to add?

[faust]

No one! But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW. Who wants to make a grand Glooble case?

Look at the vote count. This is not going anywhere unless you give some reason for why we should vote EFHW. And if you're not prepared to do that, please put your vote somewhere more useful.

[MiX]

No one! But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW. Who wants to make a grand Glooble case?

Look at the vote count. This is not going anywhere unless you give some reason for why we should vote EFHW. And if you're not prepared to do that, please put your vote somewhere more useful.

There is no better vote. I'm with E now.

Unvote

[faust]

It's not like unvoting is going to improve the situation.

[gkrieg13]

Eh I’m sad that no one is voting me right now. My flight got delayed (originally they said I wouldn’t get home until Sunday...) so I may be V/LA a little longer. I have not been keeping up very well but shraeyes posts gave me a little taste of how the game has been going. E’s post seems like something he did as scum in the last game so vote: e

[EFHW]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble. The scummiest person right now is.....

No one! But EFHW needs some heat.

You kidding? I need AC!

[EFHW]

I thought Shraeye's entry was towny and helpful. I'm going to use his post to organize my own.

I don't agree with him on several points:

Glooble -- I looked at the posts you singled out and I don't see it. Like really, I don't see it at all. The unvote seemed towny to me.

Galzria -- I've been thinking about the Galzria numbers post, and his defense later on. Shraeye says this is what town!Galzria does, but I think town!Galzria usually waits a lot longer before posting an analysis post like that. Usually he makes those posts when clarifying is actually needed. I don't think it was needed there. His defense was eloquent, but also sounded like scum!Galzria's silver tongue. I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting. But he's my best guess at the moment, so ...

vote: Galzria

Space -- I'm not leaping at the chance to vote them, but they do seem a bit more reactive than usual.

pubby -- I think his joke is NAI. I think his jumping on the MiX wagon was scummy.

I do agree with Shraeye that Didds is giving off a scummy vibe. He agreed with me re: ADK towny.

MiX: Shraeye didn't take a position on MiX. I have never had a scumread on MiX in any game, except for the one where he was SK. I don't have one now. Of course there is likely to be scum on the wagon, but I don't have any bias about when they would have joined. They could have started it, since MiX is a popular target. Or they could have jumped on hoping it would go to quicklynch. That's a more rookie move, so I'd be looking at pubby there.

I'll address the other players in a later post.

[faust]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

[EFHW]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

[Awaclus]

Vote: Galzria

[EFHW]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

[EFHW]

I'm going to be v/la Sunday through Sunday. My internet access will be very intermittent. Hopefully I'll be able to check in every couple days or so.

[shraeye]

MiX: Shraeye didn't take a position on MiX.

I disagree.

[Galzria]

Galzria -- I've been thinking about the Galzria numbers post, and his defense later on. Shraeye says this is what town!Galzria does, but I think town!Galzria usually waits a lot longer before posting an analysis post like that. Usually he makes those posts when clarifying is actually needed. I don't think it was needed there. His defense was eloquent, but also sounded like scum!Galzria's silver tongue. I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting. But he's my best guess at the moment, so ...

Bolded is incorrect and an unfair argument: I was asked to supply that post - mainly a look at the potential upside of claiming, and I did so. Had I ignored the request I would be voted for "intentionally ignoring questions asked of me" - and if you don't think that's true, you're being foolish.

Italicized isn't something I can really argue against. It's just how I type, regardless of alignment, when I'm frustrated with being mischaracterized.

Underlined - You're forgiven for thinking Faust was in the same boat as MiX. MiX is the only one who has (poorly) made a case against me, however Faust is the one who's been consistently pushing my lynch - despite providing no reasons himself.

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

Vote: Swan

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed". I could also take a look at Glooble - Shraeye says his responses were scummy, and I honestly haven't looked that closely at them to make up my own mind.

[faust]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

I thought the way he echoed joth's townread on Didds looked like a scum move, and I haven't seen anything that would point me towards town!Galz.

[faust]

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed".

gkrieg is VLA. Which isn't true for the other lurkers.

[Glooble]

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

I think I missed that case somehow. Let me go back and take a look.

[Galzria]

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed".

gkrieg is VLA. Which isn't true for the other lurkers.

Ah - noted.

[Galzria]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

I thought the way he echoed joth's townread on Didds looked like a scum move, and I haven't seen anything that would point me towards town!Galz.

Didds has, in my experience with her, a trait that’s been consistently true in each of her scum games that I’ve been a part of or read, and that she does NOT exhibit in her town games. That trait has thusfar not been present here. Yes, I echo’d Joth, because he claimed a town read on Didds after somebody (MiX?) voted her, and I agree with his town read.

[jotheonah]

I keep thinking about what PPS said about MiX’s wagon:

It’s not the fast build you have to worry about, it’s the ones that get pretty far and then stall out mysteriously.

Pretty much exactly what’s happened with MiX.

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

[jotheonah]

That word was meant to be either fishing or flailing. Take your pick I guess.

[Glooble]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

[Galzria]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

It was more specifically his back-and-forth with Swan from #227-#242 that pinged me as being incredibly closed minded and unwilling to entertain the notion of something being potentially beneficial for town - more than just disagreeing though, it felt like he was going out of his way to shut down any possible conversation on the topic.

[faust]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

[A Drowned Kernel]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

It was more specifically his back-and-forth with Swan from #227-#242 that pinged me as being incredibly closed minded and unwilling to entertain the notion of something being potentially beneficial for town - more than just disagreeing though, it felt like he was going out of his way to shut down any possible conversation on the topic.

I think that it's very unlikely that scum!faust would see discussion of setup info that he thought was pro-town and think "I'd better try and shut this down". Regardless of alignment, when it comes to setup talk faust is going to do what he thinks is towny

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

Which is generally how scum wants to kill a wagon on scum, right? Try to argue against it and you've just tied yourself to your partner. Offering an attractive alternative is much better.

I'm just getting more and more on board with a scum!MiX scenario here.

vote: MiX

[pubby]

I still don't see any better lynch than MiX today. His last few posts have made me more suspicious, not less. And with all the the vote changes happening around I feel like there's plenty of buddy information to be gained if he turns out to be scum.

[pubby]

pubby -- I think his joke is NAI. I think his jumping on the MiX wagon was scummy.

I was the second player to vote MiX 

[Glooble]

His last few posts have made me more suspicious, not less.

Can you articulate why, or is it just a gut thing?

[Awaclus]

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

Which is generally how scum wants to kill a wagon on scum, right? Try to argue against it and you've just tied yourself to your partner. Offering an attractive alternative is much better.

I'm just getting more and more on board with a scum!MiX scenario here.

vote: MiX

Why is scum not making ANY OTHER WAGON then?

Vote: MiX

You're gonna say this is a "pressure vote", because there is absolutely no way you want tgis to get through if you're town.

Vote: Awaclus

[MiX]

I still don't see any better lynch than MiX today. His last few posts have made me more suspicious, not less. And with all the the vote changes happening around I feel like there's plenty of buddy information to be gained if he turns out to be scum.

If I'm town you get nothing, just that scum had no interest of lynching anyone else so they didn't care about me being traitor/scum-helping third party...because I'm towny.

[WestCoastDidds]

One day, Galzria, will you tell me what it is?? Over awesome cocktails perhaps?

EFHW usually finds me scummy for too much off-topic chatter, but ya'll know I live for the fluff. MiX often thinks I am scummy, but usually he does when he is scum. I have played a lot with faust and Joth and they tend to get it right. I tend to find scum Shraeye pretty quickly in blitz games, and when he is scum he always tries to mislynch me.

I will be around off and on today through Sunday, but mostly off. This weekend is my anniversary so I'm going to San Antonio with debatepro for the weekend to be fancy. 

I'm leaving my vote on MiX for the time being. I think flailing was the right word, Joth, but fishing totally works, too. I am also interested in hearing more about how e is similar to how he was as scum last time. I can see that, but I don't quite have words for it yet. I can see moving to there is MiX's invulnerability is true to form.

[EFHW]

vote: MiX

At this point, you were number 5.

Vote Count 1.4:

MiX (4): Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, Glooble

[Glooble]

I'm torn because I think MiX is kind of scummy (or at least not townie) but also this lynch feels too easy.

MiX is at L-2 right now, right?

[jotheonah]

Why is scum not making ANY OTHER WAGON then?

I believe they are trying. Hence the half a dozen people with 1 vote. What, did you think the whole scum team would jump on the same person to save you?

[pubby]

Can you articulate why, or is it just a gut thing?

Somewhat gut, somewhat I don't like how he voted EFHW then unvoted saying there's no good vote. I feel like he's grasping at straws. I feel like there are plenty of reasonable votes to make D1 but he's not going for any of them which seems anti-town. And then his last comment begins with "If I'm town"... Like, I wouldn't start a sentence with those words ever 

Early game I voted for him because I did not like how he reacted to my reveal. He jumped to support me but he did not understand what my reveal was. He behaved very similar in the Lemony Snicket mafia against me (he was scum then).

@EFHW: Sure but I meant that I voted for him earlier, and took my vote off to pressure Awaclus.

[Glooble]

Thanks pubby that's helpful.

Everyone cool with me putting MiX to L-1? I'm nervous about quickhammers/ derphammers/ etc.

[Glooble]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

[Galzria]

I’ll bite:

Intent to hammer.

[faust]

What is this BS?

[2.71828.....]

What is this BS?

Dont know.  Scum trying to seem townie by lynching MiX?

[2.71828.....]

Let me ISO MiX real quick.

(try not to hammer please?)

[2.71828.....]

ISO complete.  MiX has.....

1) positively contributed even if I disagree with some ideas he has had
2) NOT negatively reacted to a wagon against him
3) been generally townie

Conclusion: town

[2.71828.....]

I’ll bite:

Intent to hammer.

vote: Galzria

Why are you considering hammering?

[2.71828.....]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: MiX

typical terrible vote from Awaclus

[2.71828.....]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

Which is generally how scum wants to kill a wagon on scum, right? Try to argue against it and you've just tied yourself to your partner. Offering an attractive alternative is much better.

I'm just getting more and more on board with a scum!MiX scenario here.

vote: MiX

So MiX is scum because some people are arguing against the wagon?  Doesn't work for me.

[jotheonah]

And now we have the desperate attempts to save MiX. seems about right...

[Glooble]

And now we have the desperate attempts to save MiX. seems about right...

When does scum ever defend their partner like this at L-1?

[Galzria]

And now we have the desperate attempts to save MiX. seems about right...

When does scum ever defend their partner like this at L-1?

It’s not as unusual as you make it out to be. “Whelp, guess I was wrong” is such an easy thing to type by scum the day following a scum lynch.

[2.71828.....]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

I think the Swan-MiX interaction is mostly just two people being noisy and generating content. I don't particularly agree with the directions Swan's trying to go with things, but also I agree with Galz's MiX put-down. Actually I think an Ash-RMM setup easily has the potential for both of them to have anti-town wincons without necessarily even being partners. I'm not sure that helps me at all with the question of where to put my vote.

Actually, let's go with vote: MiX, now that I've looked at the count and subsequent votes, and reassured myself it's not an early derphammer.

I don't get how the first quote turns into the vote. 

Actually, vote: Space

Basically Space says it is 50/50 with Mix/Swan, with potential for both to be town or both have anti-town win-cons (huge jump there...).  Then votes MiX because opportunity?

[Galzria]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

[2.71828.....]

And now we have the desperate attempts to save MiX. seems about right...

Well, you have me logging on at the start of a weekend after a busy week and I find us pursuing another misbegotten MiX lynch. 

Maybe I mischaracterized that a bit.

But you know me, I lurk until deadlines then have a lot of activity which gives me enough town cred to survive another day.  I should try maintaining that activity like I did when I started playing here so long ago.....

[2.71828.....]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

Yeah, because town never changes their mind and scum just votes wildly D1 in order to see what wagon happens to gain traction.....

[Glooble]

Glaz, where exactly has MiX misrepresented someone?

[2.71828.....]

Glaz, where exactly has MiX misrepresented someone?

I think this:

Quotes take forever and I'm tired of them

GLOOBLE: Yes, you never lynch me day 1, it's proof I've improved since my first game.

GALZRIA: You talk about PRs a lot: I'm pretty sure flavor roles are much more than indicators of what powers they have. You know who would like to hide that information? Scum.

DIDDS: What's your shraeye case? I wanna hear it.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

[Galzria]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary claims?

vote: galz

[Glooble]

Here’s my dilemma.

My vote is based primarily on a gut feeling- something about MiX is different than other games I’ve played with MiX where he was town.

But normally when a wagon gets to this point in a non-blitz game, even day one, there’s more than a feeling at play. There’s a scumslip, or some voting pattern weirdness- something quantifiable. Something you can point to and say “this is scummy”. And I don’t see that for MiX right now, which is making me nervous.

PPE: okay that makes me feel better about keeping my vote where it is.

[jotheonah]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

TWIST!

Seriously, e's reaction here is really over the top if he's just a townie who thinks MiX is towny. Source: I was a towny who thought MiX was townie and I would never freak out this much to defend him.

Maybe they are a 2-person third-party team? That might justify this level of panic.

[Galzria]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

[Galzria]

vote: e

[pingpongsam]

Vote: e

[2.71828.....]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

TWIST!

Seriously, e's reaction here is really over the top if he's just a townie who thinks MiX is towny. Source: I was a towny who thought MiX was townie and I would never freak out this much to defend him.

Maybe they are a 2-person third-party team? That might justify this level of panic.

That is twisty.

Aslo, I only freak out about defending people I think are town AS town.  you can be certain that I am only a partner with MiX in that we are both town.  We have no special relationship in this game as third party or scum or otherwise.

[2.71828.....]

Also, predictable votes.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't hate it

vote: e

[2.71828.....]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary claims?

vote: galz

I agree with this.

Not this:

I don't hate it

vote: e

vote: galz

[2.71828.....]

I don't hate it

vote: e

so....why are you voting me?  I could ask for why pps or galz are voting me but those are predictable answers that I don't really need to ask.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't hate it

vote: e

so....why are you voting me?  I could ask for why pps or galz are voting me but those are predictable answers that I don't really need to ask.

My vote for galz was kind of knee-jerk, up on consideration that kind of gambit is more likely to come from town than scum (which isn't to say that I approve of it)

As to voting for you, my read on you is more gut than anything else because I'm having a hard time getting into this game

[MiX]

Yo...chill homies. Chill... Galz don't give me a heart attack.

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary claims?

vote: galz

Vote: Galz. Seriously I could've done this.

[jotheonah]

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

[MiX]

Okay I'm also chill now, let's lynch scum.

Vote: Awaclus

I'm sorry for all the votes Galz. But don't intent to hammer like that, please.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

Galz's party pooper comment suggests that he knew that it wasn't L-1 when he announced intent

[jotheonah]

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

Galz's party pooper comment suggests that he knew that it wasn't L-1 when he announced intent

That's a stretch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Care to comment galz?

[pingpongsam]

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

Galz's party pooper comment suggests that he knew that it wasn't L-1 when he announced intent

That's a stretch.

I don't think it is. It was exactly how I interpreted the comment. Personally, I thought that Awaclus had simply voted again and already had a standing vote so I thought he was being the tricky one and most everyone else was playing along.

[jotheonah]

I read it as a joke.

[EFHW]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

[Galzria]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

[jotheonah]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

How much more useful is that wagon if we lynch MiX today and then have a flip to analyze with it though? Let's skip the half-measures and go for it. Plus he's scum.

[EFHW]

Why are we questioning Galz? It was Glooble who made the mistake.

[EFHW]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

[2.71828.....]

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

I read it as a joke.

How do these go together? The party pooper comment is the joke?

Trying to get how you go from taking Glooble's word for L-1 bring true to bring "in" on the joke

[2.71828.....]

I also had no clue what the actual vote count was just too the word of people saying L-1

[2.71828.....]

Why are we questioning Galz? It was Glooble who made the mistake.

It seemed like it was Galz to me with the intent to hammer post and the party pooper post. But good point.

Unvote for now

[faust]

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I get drawing out reactions, but you lied and risked a claim.

[Galzria]

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I get drawing out reactions, but you lied and risked a claim.

I would’ve been ok with him claiming. I still think he may be scum. I didn’t lie. I didn’t know it wasn’t L-1.

[faust]

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I get drawing out reactions, but you lied and risked a claim.

I would’ve been ok with him claiming. I still think he may be scum. I didn’t lie. I didn’t know it wasn’t L-1.

You said you had intent to hammer. The post I quoted suggests you didn't.

[Galzria]

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I get drawing out reactions, but you lied and risked a claim.

I would’ve been ok with him claiming. I still think he may be scum. I didn’t lie. I didn’t know it wasn’t L-1.

You said you had intent to hammer. The post I quoted suggests you didn't.

And every person that’s ever placed a pressure vote with no intent to lynch has lied too 

Sorry. Don’t really buy that. It was and is a pro town way to generate valuable content.

[jotheonah]

Why are we questioning Galz? It was Glooble who made the mistake.

It seemed like it was Galz to me with the intent to hammer post and the party pooper post. But good point.

Unvote for now

Was this a good point when I made it or only when EFHW made it?

[Glooble]

For the record, I genuinely just miscounted. I think I did count Awaclus twice.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why are we questioning Galz? It was Glooble who made the mistake.

I read galz's comment to mean that his "mistake" was intentional. If it had been intentional I would have said it was towny, knowing that it's not is null

[pubby]

Anyone know what the vote count is?

[SpaceAnemone]

Anyone know what the vote count is?

Ah, looks like I can come back in and actually be useful! I'll go get my vote counter set up for this game now.

(Busy day here. MiX wagon fun looked interesting, and my immediate thought on Galz playing for reactions is that it seems fair enough).

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

MiX (6): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Galzria, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus (1): MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Shraeye, 2.71828.....

[Awaclus]

there is absolutely no way you want tgis to get through if you're town.

What are the reasons why town can't possibly want your lynch to get through? Do you think there are 6 scum?

[SpaceAnemone]

Eh I’m sad that no one is voting me right now. My flight got delayed (originally they said I wouldn’t get home until Sunday...) so I may be V/LA a little longer. I have not been keeping up very well but shraeyes posts gave me a little taste of how the game has been going. E’s post seems like something he did as scum in the last game so vote: e

Do you mean the following post from e?

Shraeye's posts are great. Not lynching today

Is throwing someone a D1 pass for making good posts specifically something e would be less likely to do as town?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Space Count

MiX (6): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Galzria, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus (1): MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Shraeye, 2.71828.....

That's a lot of people not voting

[SpaceAnemone]

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

I did just go back and look at your case, which was:

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

I think your characterization of faust's shutting-down of discussion is a bit subjective. I assume you're talking about the way he was arguing with Swan about whether the flavour numbers were useful, but possibly it's the way he cautioned WCD about the artifacts. In the first instance, I absolutely believe that he was on the right lines, because Swan seemed to be at risk of devoting lots of brainpower to something that appeared to stem from a misinterpretation of something Ash had written.

Also, when do we ever lynch faust D1? Even if he winds up having drawn scum, we can pretty much guarantee that are other people on that team who're less likely to feel that they have to post town-useful content just to keep their cover, and we're better off trying to lynch them before faust, since that way we still get free advice...

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

MiX (6): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Galzria, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus (1): MiX
Not Voting (3): DatSwan, Shraeye, 2.71828.....

That's a lot of people not voting

We've got quite a few days left. I think I'm often one of the most indecisive ones, but then I usually regret it later in the game when I'm trying to analyse wagons because having myself on there in green is useful.

In this case, e has actually been voting, it's just that he unvoted lately. Swan and Shraeye are the two who've yet to lay down any votes.

[A Drowned Kernel]

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

I did just go back and look at your case, which was:

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

I think your characterization of faust's shutting-down of discussion is a bit subjective. I assume you're talking about the way he was arguing with Swan about whether the flavour numbers were useful, but possibly it's the way he cautioned WCD about the artifacts. In the first instance, I absolutely believe that he was on the right lines, because Swan seemed to be at risk of devoting lots of brainpower to something that appeared to stem from a misinterpretation of something Ash had written.

Also, when do we ever lynch faust D1? Even if he winds up having drawn scum, we can pretty much guarantee that are other people on that team who're less likely to feel that they have to post town-useful content just to keep their cover, and we're better off trying to lynch them before faust, since that way we still get free advice...

Do you find faust towny right now?

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s a good point...DatSwan, what are you thinking? You’ve had lots to say but not voting? I assume Shraeye is still catching up.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, found it.

Oh, sorry.. I think I just made a point that you'd already made :-(

In response to Galz's response to you, I don't think faust was being closed-minded in an unhelpful way, because I was totally in agreement with him that the flavour-numbers made no sense as a point on which to spend a lot of effort, because of the way Ash had presented them.

[SpaceAnemone]

Do you find faust towny right now?

Yes, I think so. I've correctly scum-read him in the past, but I don't think we're far enough into this game for the sort of thing he did then to show, so he can be town until proven otherwise for me, at least for now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you find faust towny right now?

Yes, I think so. I've correctly scum-read him in the past, but I don't think we're far enough into this game for the sort of thing he did then to show, so he can be town until proven otherwise for me, at least for now.

Fair enough

[EFHW]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

[SpaceAnemone]

The Swan/Mix interaction could easily be partner distancing. I think Swan just came in with a lot of thoughts suddenly without regard for overall context and that is very easy to misconstrue. Mix's angst toward faust for casing Swan, though, doesn't seem quite right. It's one thing to counter the argument much like I just did in sentence #2 above it's a whole other thing to FOS over it.

I think the Swan-MiX interaction is mostly just two people being noisy and generating content. I don't particularly agree with the directions Swan's trying to go with things, but also I agree with Galz's MiX put-down. Actually I think an Ash-RMM setup easily has the potential for both of them to have anti-town wincons without necessarily even being partners. I'm not sure that helps me at all with the question of where to put my vote.

Actually, let's go with vote: MiX, now that I've looked at the count and subsequent votes, and reassured myself it's not an early derphammer.

I don't get how the first quote turns into the vote. 

Actually, vote: Space

Basically Space says it is 50/50 with Mix/Swan, with potential for both to be town or both have anti-town win-cons (huge jump there...).  Then votes MiX because opportunity?

I don't quite get what you mean about it being 50/50 with the two of them. In my head I definitely already wanted to vote MiX at that stage, I just didn't say so in the post that was a response to PPS because PPS's point was about tying the two players together, not about how scummy either of them looked in isolation.

What I was saying is that I don't think the particular Swan-MiX interaction creates a correlation such that if one is scum the other has to be scum of the same faction, but also nor does it mean that if one is scum the other has to be town. The latter point is important because in simpler mafia games, it's easy to look back post-flip and think that someone arguing with scum is more likely to be town, which is exactly why people engage in the partner distancing behaviour that PPS described.

[SpaceAnemone]

Do you find faust towny right now?

Yes, I think so. I've correctly scum-read him in the past, but I don't think we're far enough into this game for the sort of thing he did then to show, so he can be town until proven otherwise for me, at least for now.

Fair enough

Ha! I now feel the need to qualify my statement to say I've correctly scum-read him on at least one occasion in the past. I don't want to misrepresent myself as some kind of infallible scum!faust-detector.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.7:

MiX (6): WCD, pubby, Space, joth, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
Awaclus (1): MiX
2.7 (4): gkrieg, Galzria, PPS, ADK

Not Voting (3): Datswan, shraeye, 2.7

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[shraeye]

It’s a good point...DatSwan, what are you thinking? You’ve had lots to say but not voting? I assume Shraeye is still catching up.

What makes you assume that?

[shraeye]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

Yeah, I meant to ask this too.  Then didn't.  So, what gives?

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 1.7:

MiX (6): WCD, pubby, Space, joth, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
2.7 (1) gkrieg
Awaclus (1): MiX
2.7 (3): Galzria, PPS, ADK

Not Voting (3): Datswan, shraeye, 2.7

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

e's wagon here is bifurcated

[A Drowned Kernel]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

Yeah, I meant to ask this too.  Then didn't.  So, what gives?

Are you saying didds shouldn't find you towny?

[ashersky]

e's wagon here is bifurcated

Fixed.  Thanks.  Phone Vote Counts are hard.

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s a good point...DatSwan, what are you thinking? You’ve had lots to say but not voting? I assume Shraeye is still catching up.

What makes you assume that?

Because you were gone, then you came back and made a flurry of posts but didn’t vote, and then went quiet again...I assumed you were catching up. Or at least following along. Is that wrong? Are you sitting out intentionally?

[shraeye]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

Yeah, I meant to ask this too.  Then didn't.  So, what gives?

Are you saying didds shouldn't find you towny?

A) No
B) wrong person

[jotheonah]

e's wagon here is bifurcated

Fixed.  Thanks.  Phone Vote Counts are hard.

You’re talking to the guy who has screwed up nearly every vote count he’s ever written.

[jotheonah]

Let’s vote: e

See what everybody does with two equally viable L-4s.

[MiX]

there is absolutely no way you want tgis to get through if you're town.

What are the reasons why town can't possibly want your lynch to get through? Do you think there are 6 scum?

I usually see purpose in your votes, but I didn't with that one. I think it's simply because it's on me, but maybe it's also the fact my wagon was already growing really fast and you didn't have to vote. But I can see your point of view now....

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

I misremembered shraeye's scum meta, forgot he always hates voting. This is where I would vote him but he's towny regardless of this.

Let’s vote: e

See what everybody does with two equally viable L-4s.

Is the E case "MiX is scum and E was defending him, so E is scum"? That is terrible.

[faust]

Vote: jotheonah

[faust]

shraeye, why did you not bring up no lynch yet?

[Swowl]

Apologies for not being around for last 2 days. I don't even have a good excuse, I just did not have the opportunity to get into the game. I have now caught up.

1) The main thing I noticed upon doing my catch up is that the Mix wagon has had like 2 potential counters [Galz and E]. Both Galz and E find MiX too towny to vote for. While there is like a 0% chance we just stumbled on the skum team day 1, it is at least notable that MiX doesn't seem to be inclined to lynch Galz or E (only viable counters) as well as Galz and E both don't seem inclined to lynch MiX. That is just suspicious from every angle.... but also, again, they probably are not all skum. Makes me a little suspicious of MiX if anything.

2) Everything regarding the Galz and Pubby stuff is ridiculous imo. Pubby because it is NAI. Galz because they were responding with the PR stuff to a direct question. They didn't just go and do the work for some random reason.

3) Everything regarding the L-1 situation is a little odd. I can totally see someone messing that up - so if anything, the skummy people are the ones that were trying to paint those players as skummy.



I find the trio of Mix,E,Galz strange - so for now Vote:Mix

[Swowl]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

[Swowl]

It’s a good point...DatSwan, what are you thinking? You’ve had lots to say but not voting? I assume Shraeye is still catching up.

i am really really just lost this game so far tbh.

[MiX]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

No. Oh boy. I reeeeally need a good case if I wanna live this day.

Potential lynches today in order of likelyness: MiX (obv!town, bad lynch), e (he's defending me so he gets a pass, could be scum but...I'll need to think), Galz (town, ok), Awaclus (not scum, current read is third-party, probably just OMGUS), Glooble (some people wanted that? Forgot why), joth (I've been assuming he's town, maybe I shouldn't), Swan (I think? Super towny anyway).

Is the above sorta correct? I'll reread all of these (except Galz, not doing that today) and see if I want any.

[Glooble]

Let’s vote: e

See what everybody does with two equally viable L-4s.

This doesn’t really make any sense.

If MiX is town, e is definitely not scummy for defending him (I would argue that even if MiX is scum e isn’t scummy for defending him, but let’s not muddy the waters.) Scum!e almost certainly joins the MiX wagon or at least doesn’t derail it.

If you think they’re partners why are you moving your vote to make two equally viable wagons? Seems to me like that’s just going to make both of them stall out.

Are you saying “MiX lynch isn’t going to happen so let’s focus on his partner, e?” Because that also doesn’t work because anyone who thinks MiX is town isn’t going to want to lynch e for defending MiX.

[shraeye]

shraeye, why did you not bring up no lynch yet?

It hadn't occured to me

[gkrieg13]

Eh I’m sad that no one is voting me right now. My flight got delayed (originally they said I wouldn’t get home until Sunday...) so I may be V/LA a little longer. I have not been keeping up very well but shraeyes posts gave me a little taste of how the game has been going. E’s post seems like something he did as scum in the last game so vote: e

Do you mean the following post from e?

Shraeye's posts are great. Not lynching today

Is throwing someone a D1 pass for making good posts specifically something e would be less likely to do as town?

To me it was the way he did it without pointing out anything townie from shraeye’s posts

[2.71828.....]

Eh I’m sad that no one is voting me right now. My flight got delayed (originally they said I wouldn’t get home until Sunday...) so I may be V/LA a little longer. I have not been keeping up very well but shraeyes posts gave me a little taste of how the game has been going. E’s post seems like something he did as scum in the last game so vote: e

Do you mean the following post from e?

Shraeye's posts are great. Not lynching today

Is throwing someone a D1 pass for making good posts specifically something e would be less likely to do as town?

To me it was the way he did it without pointing out anything townie from shraeye’s posts

They were all townie.  All of them up to that point.  There were only like 3 of them

[EFHW]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

[MiX]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

What's your Galz case?

[jotheonah]

Let’s vote: e

See what everybody does with two equally viable L-4s.

This doesn’t really make any sense.

If MiX is town, e is definitely not scummy for defending him (I would argue that even if MiX is scum e isn’t scummy for defending him, but let’s not muddy the waters.) Scum!e almost certainly joins the MiX wagon or at least doesn’t derail it.

If you think they’re partners why are you moving your vote to make two equally viable wagons? Seems to me like that’s just going to make both of them stall out.

Are you saying “MiX lynch isn’t going to happen so let’s focus on his partner, e?” Because that also doesn’t work because anyone who thinks MiX is town isn’t going to want to lynch e for defending MiX.

You’re overthinking. I’m moving my vote from one scummy person to another. They could be partners. But your post makes it seem like town!Mix+scum!e is impossible and that’s absurd. Scum can afford to defend town here for points. And also third parties are a thing so we can’t assume much of anything.

It’s weird to assume my e vote is based on my MiX case. I just find e scummy enough to vote for, and I thought it would be instructive to see what people do with two equal wagons (I.e. who makes the first move to tip the balance).

[jotheonah]

I guess I ruined it by explaining it. Oops.

[MiX]

What's your e case (for if I'm town)?

[pingpongsam]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

Care to elaborate on sir Mix’s towniness?

[pubby]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

[Glooble]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

Does anyone have an e case that doesn’t revolve around his reaction to the MiX wagon?

[shraeye]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

Does anyone have an e case that doesn’t revolve around his reaction to the MiX wagon?

Why? You looking for an e case? 


But really, what are your thoughts on e? Did his reaction mean anything to you?

[pingpongsam]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

I will be clear and say I think MiX is scum. I am voting e because we did the wagon switcharoo thingy and reaction surrounding that is super useful. I am not opposed to an e Lynch but I would prefer a mixed lynch (shaken, not stirred).

Now that is on the table I will Vote: MiX.

[SpaceAnemone]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

Does anyone have an e case that doesn’t revolve around his reaction to the MiX wagon?

I'm not a fan of the way he misrepresented me at #397 with his "Basically Space says it is 50/50 with Mix/Swan" before voting me for then voting MiX, when I'd never been of the opinion that it was 50/50 between MiX and Swan anyway, and even if I had been, having a 50% scumread on two people is a great reason to vote one of them because most people are probably less than 50% likely to be scum.

That's neither a full case on e, nor is it entirely independent of the MiX wagon in that his case on me was built on me voting for MiX. But it's enough to be an element in a case, if anyone else is building one. If anyone convinced me to think MiX is townie, though, I could consider voting e. It might be at least a little bit OMGUS.

PPE 2 because I forgot to hit post a while ago...

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count the 2nd

MiX (7): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, Glooble, DatSwan, pingpongsam
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Galzria, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
Galzria (1): EFHW
Awaclus (1): MiX
jotheonah (1): faust

Not Voting (2): Shraeye, 2.71828.....

[Glooble]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

Does anyone have an e case that doesn’t revolve around his reaction to the MiX wagon?

Why? You looking for an e case? 


But really, what are your thoughts on e? Did his reaction mean anything to you?

I think if e is scum MiX is probably also scum But the reverse doesn’t hold so I’d rather lynch MiX.

Nothing e has said prior to the MiX wagon has stuck out at me either way, but I haven’t reread him.

[MiX]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

Does anyone have an e case that doesn’t revolve around his reaction to the MiX wagon?

Why? You looking for an e case? 


But really, what are your thoughts on e? Did his reaction mean anything to you?

I think if e is scum MiX is probably also scum But the reverse doesn’t hold so I’d rather lynch MiX.

Why do you think this? I would rather do it the other way around, right? Again, scum DOES defend my wagon, so when I flip town they can go "HA! Told ya" and that's so hilarious it's hard not to do it.

Also, I am not some crazy third party nonsense that backstabs town, alright?

[MiX]

I bold things related to claims by the way. Which reminds me, please don't quicklynch, I'll need to say something before I'm lynched if that's what happens.

[MiX]

Did some rereads: everyone part of my previous list is 100% town and will not be lynched today...except for E. He's basically buddying me. Is that part of his scummeta?

Anyway I don't have more leads. Who else do we wanna lynch today?

[EFHW]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

Care to elaborate on sir Mix’s towniness?

It's just how he talks. I think it would be hard to fake as scum.

[EFHW]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

What's your Galz case?

I posted it recently.  On phone until after vla, so hopefully you can find it. Could someone link to where Galz was asked to address the number claiming issue, since that is his defense?

[EFHW]

e could be white knighting. I don't want to go without placing a helpful vote, so

vote: e

But I'll have a chance to change it tomorrow if Galz wagon gets more support.

[EFHW]

Airplane mode.

[MiX]

I have 0 knowledge of the show, but am inclined to agree with Swan that there’s almost certainly more than two base win cons in play. I’ve no idea if that means Survivor, Second Scum faction, SK, Cult or whatever though.

I’m not as convinced by his argument for not number claiming, though I’m neither convinced by the arguments that we should do. Mainly I feel the people arguing for fit into the group that I would expect to argue for. Swan being against so early seems a little out of character for him? I dunno. Maybe not.

I mean - i am open to being wrong on the number part. What upside can you math out for doing it?

Is the quote you're looking for???

e could be white knighting. I don't want to go without placing a helpful vote, so

vote: e

But I'll have a chance to change it tomorrow if Galz wagon gets more support.

Anyone else you'd consider? Galz is super town...maybe...

[Glooble]

Ok I just reread all of e's posts and I just don't see anything scummy there.

I guess everyone else seems to think scum!e would rather get town points for stopping a town lynch and risk a scum lynch than participate in a guaranteed town lynch where he can get a relatively defensible wagon position. It's certainly not what I would do as scum, but if you all think e is into playing the long game like that I guess I can see it.

MiX is seeming a little more MiX-like lately so I'm certainly open to other wagons, but not if that wagon is e.

I'll look at Galz when I have time.

[shraeye]

The Glooble-MiX relationship is certainly an exciting rollercoaster.

[2.71828.....]

e could be white knighting. I don't want to go without placing a helpful vote, so

vote: e

But I'll have a chance to change it tomorrow if Galz wagon gets more support.

That's not helpful though.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I am seeing scum everywhere this game. Which probably means look where I am not. I have a wonderful record of pushing town lynches (as town or scum).

That being said, I am waiting for the game when I finally 1) read scum correctly and 2) convince town to lynch them.

It's my favorite dream. Also, had a bit to drink, any questions?

[A Drowned Kernel]

This is, by my count, the third time that the mix wagon has built up steam, only to stall out near completion.

vote: mix that is L-1 for real

[Swowl]

unvote


I am still fine with my MiX vote. But out of respect of MiX's request to avoid a quickhammer as they have info they would like to share, I am un voting to make sure that happens.


MiX - what is it you wanted to get out?

[Galzria]

vote: swan

I don’t believe Town!swan honestly comes in from being away, reads/gets caught up, evaluates the wagons, the players & the votes, and concludes he wants to lynch MiX.

Reasons: Swan should’ve noted that my intent to hammer, while at L-2, marked the 8th person willing to lynch MiX. Then Joth, ADK & I* leave the wagon, where we remain when Swan puts MiX back to L-2. With us three included back, that’s now 10 showing willingness to lynch MiX. The players that do not fall into that group:

Faust, EFHW, e - all three of whom have defended MiX to some degree.
Shraeye - who’s stated suspicion of MiX
Gkrieg - V/LA
MiX - obviously

Now, that doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room to nail the scum team, but Swan seems entirely unfazed. I’m just not buying it.

What I DO see as more likely is one of the following:

Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!MiX. He’s waited for a cycling of MiX’s wagon and decided to put the pressure back on in the hopes that somebody draws the exact analysis I did above, and uses that to derail the MiX wagon entirely.

Or

Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!e, recognizes that we’re plurality lynch, and wants to keep the MiX wagon high in the hopes of either getting MiX lynched flat out, or eventually by plurality.

——-

Both of the above make more sense to me than town!swan coming in when & where he did to vote MiX.

[Galzria]

MiX, if you’re town, don’t claim anything right now. You’re not in danger of being lynched.

[Swowl]

vote: swan

I don’t believe Town!swan honestly comes in from being away, reads/gets caught up, evaluates the wagons, the players & the votes, and concludes he wants to lynch MiX.

Reasons: Swan should’ve noted that my intent to hammer, while at L-2, marked the 8th person willing to lynch MiX. Then Joth, ADK & I* leave the wagon, where we remain when Swan puts MiX back to L-2. With us three included back, that’s now 10 showing willingness to lynch MiX. The players that do not fall into that group:

Faust, EFHW, e - all three of whom have defended MiX to some degree.
Shraeye - who’s stated suspicion of MiX
Gkrieg - V/LA
MiX - obviously

Now, that doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room to nail the scum team, but Swan seems entirely unfazed. I’m just not buying it.

What I DO see as more likely is one of the following:

Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!MiX. He’s waited for a cycling of MiX’s wagon and decided to put the pressure back on in the hopes that somebody draws the exact analysis I did above, and uses that to derail the MiX wagon entirely.

Or

Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!e, recognizes that we’re plurality lynch, and wants to keep the MiX wagon high in the hopes of either getting MiX lynched flat out, or eventually by plurality.

——-

Both of the above make more sense to me than town!swan coming in when & where he did to vote MiX.

I just want to make sure I can follow your uhm... brilliance here - So I am either skum with E or skum with MiX, and those are those are the only two options?

1) "Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!MiX. He’s waited for a cycling of MiX’s wagon and decided to put the pressure back on in the hopes that somebody draws the exact analysis I did above, and uses that to derail the MiX wagon entirely" - I said I would vote for mix again, just wanted to give them a chance to speak. tbf, "captain hammer-time" - you actually had a lot to do with that choice. Also, you made the "analysis" and then did not derail the wagon, as you were not on it. If anything your post does more to derail the wagon than anything I have done.

2) "Scum!Swan is partners with Scum!e, recognizes that we’re plurality lynch, and wants to keep the MiX wagon high in the hopes of either getting MiX lynched flat out, or eventually by plurality." - If I was skum and wanted them to be lynched by plurality, I sure as hell wouldn't point it out prior to making that play. Also, you moving your vote off of E to me just took my unvote of MiX and evened the plurality of the wagons back to where they started. So if that is something you are concerned about, that seems like a strange way of approaching things.


You took two different realities and combined them to create a case where they overlap with one and other. You should check your bias - would you be making the same case if I picked the wagon you found skummy instead of the other one?

[pingpongsam]

Damn, Galz, that’s a pretty hard counter to your points. Essentially, you are clearly doing the things you accuse Swan of. Not that I didn’t actually agree with your points to begin with but Swan puts a whole different spin on it.

[Galzria]

Damn, Galz, that’s a pretty hard counter to your points. Essentially, you are clearly doing the things you accuse Swan of. Not that I didn’t actually agree with your points to begin with but Swan puts a whole different spin on it.

I disagree - I looked at two essential situations: One where Swan is town, and one where he’s scum. The reality there is that’s the unknown. The known is how Swan read the game, players & votes, along with the conclusions he made (voting MiX).

Given the knowns, I could not come up with a reasonable narrative for town!sean, but could come up with two narratives for scum!swan - one each where he’s partners with MiX or partners with e. At that point he becomes the lowest common denominator - that is, MiX could be scum. Or e could be scum. But I find it more likely that Swan is scum.

[EFHW]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

[EFHW]

It also seems pretty early for partner theories. Why do one of MiX or e have to be scum?

[Galzria]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

[EFHW]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

Because town!swan would assume there wasn't bussing happening?

[Galzria]

It also seems pretty early for partner theories. Why do one of MiX or e have to be scum?

Neither have to be. But both (either) could be given Swan’s play. If it made more sense to pursue e/MiX instead, that’s where I would be. But Swan is the LCD here.

[shraeye]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

I thought I was following until that explanation.  That sentence has too many mismatched clauses

[Galzria]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

Because town!swan would assume there wasn't bussing happening?

Not to the extent that MiX almost gets hammered, no.

Please. If you’re town looking at that wagon at the point of intent to hammer - and you’re NOT on it (see: yourself? Faust? e?), you look at that and go “Yeah, he’s probably scum”.

[shraeye]

It sounds to me like, "lots of people were voting for mix, or wanted too.  Therefore he is probably not scum.  This, DatSwan is".

The first conclusion is debatable, the second seems a bit off topic.

[Galzria]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

I thought I was following until that explanation.  That sentence has too many mismatched clauses

Sorry, does adding “I believe Town!Swan would’ve” to the start fix that for you? I was answering directly the question “what do you think Town!swan would’ve down?”

[shraeye]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

I thought I was following until that explanation.  That sentence has too many mismatched clauses

Sorry, does adding “I believe Town!Swan would’ve” to the start fix that for you? I was answering directly the question “what do you think Town!swan would’ve down?”

But none of those clauses were action clauses.  So what would town!swan have done?

[Galzria]

It sounds to me like, "lots of people were voting for mix, or wanted too.  Therefore he is probably not scum.  This, DatSwan is".

The first conclusion is debatable, the second seems a bit off topic.

I don’t believe that Town!swan draws the conclusion that “Yeah, looking at those votes and wagon from before, MiX is probably scum here”, given he was himself off that initial wagon.

[shraeye]

Wait, maybe I just figured out the run-on sentence.

[Galzria]

Galz I'm not following your argument.  What did you think town!swan would have done?

Considered the fact that following my intent to hammer, along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes, neither of which were on MiX anymore, that the chances of a scum!MiX were incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 - given MiX wouldn’t vote himself. And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.

I thought I was following until that explanation.  That sentence has too many mismatched clauses

Sorry, does adding “I believe Town!Swan would’ve” to the start fix that for you? I was answering directly the question “what do you think Town!swan would’ve down?”

But none of those clauses were action clauses.  So what would town!swan have done?

“I believe Town!swan would’ve considered the fact that, following my intent to hammer along with Joth’s and ADK’s votes (neither of which were on MiX anymore) that the chances of a scum!MiX was incredibly slim given Swan’s own vote was effectively #10 of 15 (given MiX wouldn’t vote himself). And Shraeye is one of those five not voting MiX, despite showing interest.”

Does that help parse the point?

[shraeye]

Ok, I see what you're saying now.  I don't agree though. So I feel dumb for wasting time with clarification.

[Galzria]

Wait, maybe I just figured out the run-on sentence.

More simply: I don’t believe Town!swan finds MiX to be the best place to put his vote given the information available to him at that time.

Lol

[EFHW]

It seems like ADK has the opposite theory, that not enough people are willing to vote MiX rather than too many.

[pingpongsam]

I think flipping MiX is the answer to many questions.

[shraeye]

Agree

Vote: MiX

Probs L-1

[Swowl]

So Galz - I want to hammer MiX. Should they claim or not?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.8:

MiX (8): WCD, pubby, Space, Awaclus, Glooble, PPS, ADK, shraeye
Awaclus (1): MiX
2.7 (3): gkrieg, joth, EFHW
joth (1): faust
Datswan (1): Galzria

Not Voting (2): 2.7, Datswan

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[EFHW]

So Galz - I want to hammer MiX. Should they claim or not?

Why are you asking Galz? You were willing to wait a few minutes ago. What changed?

[Swowl]

So Galz - I want to hammer MiX. Should they claim or not?

Why are you asking Galz? You were willing to wait a few minutes ago. What changed?

Nothing. I mean if he said to do it I would still wait - just was wondering where he stood now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It seems like ADK has the opposite theory, that not enough people are willing to vote MiX rather than too many.

Rather, that a lot of people say that they're willing, but demure when the lynch is actually on the line

[Galzria]

If I wer MiX here, and I knew I was town, I would not claim, no.

[Galzria]

Agree

Vote: MiX

Probs L-1

Your vote is bad and you should feel bad.

[jotheonah]

vote: DatSwan

because reasons

[Swowl]

If I wer MiX here, and I knew I was town, I would not claim, no.

Just matching this out ahead of schedule.
- MiX doesn’t claim anything - i hammer mix, mix flips skum...so i skum am bussing skum.
- MiX  doesn’t  claim anything - i hammer mix, mix flips skum... so i am skum bussing skum.
- MiX claims something - i hammer mix, mix flips town... so i am skum.
- MiX claims something - i hammer mix, mix flips skum... so i assume you still think skum bussing skum?

The annoying thing here is that you, Galz, are usually pretty good at reading me and i am the one that just always skum reads you. It is quite opposite this game. Idk what to make of that.

[Swowl]

vote: DatSwan

because reasons

If you are gonna use his thing you may as well quote it correctly.

{reasons}

[pubby]

If MiX is scum then joth is looking scummy to me with those votes

[jotheonah]

If MiX is scum then joth is looking scummy to me with those votes

Lol I brought the MiX wagon back to life. If I’m his partner I suck.

[Swowl]

If I wer MiX here, and I knew I was town, I would not claim, no.

just to be clear - not asking mix to claim. my "waiting for claim" comment was poorly worded.

MiX said they had something they wanted to share that was important. That is why I unvoted. I am in no way, nor have I ever meant to of been, advocating that anyone should claim role/powers/etc in this spot.

[MiX]

We're running in circles guys. Did anyone consider anyone else other than (mix, e, galz, swan, awaclus, joth, glooble)? No! These are all town.

Is anyone intending to hammer yet?

[2.71828.....]

We're running in circles guys. Did anyone consider anyone else other than (mix, e, galz, swan, awaclus, joth, glooble)? No! These are all town.

Is anyone intending to hammer yet?

not me.

So who of (WCD, pubby, Space, PPS, ADK, shraeye, gkrieg, EFHW, faust) is scum?

[MiX]

We're running in circles guys. Did anyone consider anyone else other than (mix, e, galz, swan, awaclus, joth, glooble)? No! These are all town.

Is anyone intending to hammer yet?

not me.

So who of (WCD, pubby, Space, PPS, ADK, shraeye, gkrieg, EFHW, faust) is scum?

Space, gkrieg, EFHW? Maybe faust too? Maaaybe shraeye? That's who I would pursue if I had more time. But everyone is so towny this game.

[faust]

We're running in circles guys. Did anyone consider anyone else other than (mix, e, galz, swan, awaclus, joth, glooble)? No! These are all town.

Is anyone intending to hammer yet?

I can do shraeye or gkrieg.

[MiX]

Kinda hate lynching lurkers over me...but alright.

Vote: gkrieg

[faust]

Let's do it.

Vote: gkrieg

[jotheonah]

Intent to hammer MiX.

[MiX]

Intent to hammer MiX.

Are you 100% serious?

[MiX]

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

[faust]

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

[faust]

Vote: joth

[MiX]

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

I am. What gave it away, the Leader part?

[pingpongsam]

Wtf is a skitter?

[faust]

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

I am. What gave it away, the Leader part?

I'd rather not say.

[pingpongsam]

From what I can tell in the wiki, skitter is 3rd party?

[MiX]

From what I can tell in the wiki, skitter is 3rd party?

Ah, almost forgot, I'm town. The third-party's most definitely NOT skitters from my flavor and the wiki.

[MiX]

Vote: joth

Joth is town or his scum skills have definitely improved. I don't really want to lynch him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I never know how to judge these things in RMM. Like, anyone could say "I have the best role in the game", and there isn't really any way of knowing if that's true, or if they really believe that, or if that belief is justified.

[MiX]

I never know how to judge these things in RMM. Like, anyone could say "I have the best role in the game", and there isn't really any way of knowing if that's true, or if they really believe that, or if that belief is justified.

How about "I will inevitably become an IC"? Can everyone say it?

[faust]

I never know how to judge these things in RMM. Like, anyone could say "I have the best role in the game", and there isn't really any way of knowing if that's true, or if they really believe that, or if that belief is justified.

That's nonsense though. All of MiX's play today indicates that he thinks he has a powerful role.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I never know how to judge these things in RMM. Like, anyone could say "I have the best role in the game", and there isn't really any way of knowing if that's true, or if they really believe that, or if that belief is justified.

How about "I will inevitably become an IC"? Can everyone say it?

I know from experience that you have a pretty loosey-goosey definition of "IC"

[A Drowned Kernel]

Which I guess to say is that, I believe that you believe it

unvote

[pingpongsam]

How is an insect thing that works for the Espheni aligned with town humans by default and not at all third party?

[faust]

People who voted MiX or expressed intent to hammer over the course of the game.

Awaclus (130), pubby (132), faust (133), Galzria (218), ADK (248), Didds (249), Glooble (250), pubby (269), pps (275), Space (292), jotheonah (371), Awaclus (375), Glooble (384), Glazria (385), DatSwan (469), pps (486), ADK (502), shraeye (526), joth (546)

People who defended MiX or questioned votes on him:

Didds (134), faust (somewhere in there, sorry forgot to add), jotheonah (254), jotheonah (311), e (389)

Notable:
- the only player to consistently defend MiX is e.
- the only players who have not gone on the record regarding MiX are gkrieg and EFHW.

I think that it is very likely that there is scum in this group of 3. Probably even more than one.

[faust]

Vote: EFHW

[A Drowned Kernel]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

[faust]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

[Awaclus]

Vote: e

[Awaclus]

@MiX: When is this ICing yourself thing supposed to happen?

[A Drowned Kernel]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

Why doesn't that put her in the didds/you/joth group?

[pingpongsam]

I think third party is a very good explanation for some of Mix’s behavior as well as some of the defenders (partners). I am assuming they have a somewhat different win on from town that doesn’t necessarily have to be fully counter to town's wincon. I would be amenable to keeping such a third party around.

However, MiX claims to be emphatic town and I don’t believe this and if it is a lie then it is a strong suggestion that the wincon is not town favorable. It sounds from the wiki that there is a rebel leader and that seems a strong fake claim for a non town third party skitter to make.

[faust]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

Why doesn't that put her in the didds/you/joth group?

Because she never suspected MiX.

[faust]

However, MiX claims to be emphatic town and I don’t believe this and if it is a lie then it is a strong suggestion that the wincon is not town favorable. It sounds from the wiki that there is a rebel leader and that seems a strong fake claim for a non town third party skitter to make.

A claim to become an IC seems pretty bad for a third party, since they need to survive but can't deliver on that promise.

[jotheonah]

Ok, I’m not sold but I’m willing to look elsewhere today.

[MiX]

@MiX: When is this ICing yourself thing supposed to happen?

Most likely day 3.

Also, I'm part of the Skitter Rebellion, which is why I'm town. My number's 5, by the way; shouldn't hurt now that I'm outed as a Skitter.

[MiX]

Oh I have pps' "fakeclaim": that's actually my real role.

I should put more PPEs...

[Glooble]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

[Glooble]

Not 100% sure because I haven’t seen the show. Question for people who have: is there more than one character who could be described as “the rebel skitter leader”?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Because she never suspected MiX.

I would say that you would also be in the grouping with e then, as you've been pretty consistently against the mix wagon for the whole day

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not 100% sure because I haven’t seen the show. Question for people who have: is there more than one character who could be described as “the rebel skitter leader”?

Under the list of individual skitter characters the wiki does list "Red Eye" and "Paint Face" as separate skitters who are rebel leaders

[MiX]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

Not 100% sure because I haven’t seen the show. Question for people who have: is there more than one character who could be described as “the rebel skitter leader”?

Under the list of individual skitter characters the wiki does list "Red Eye" and "Paint Face" as separate skitters who are rebel leaders

I can confirm I'm one of these, and I must stress the importance of not outing which I am.

[pingpongsam]

Okay, so we have 2 rebel skitter leaders who are not otherwise partners. How likely is this even to occur? How likely is it both are town? I don’t think Scum!Glooble risks his role like this.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

Were you aware that there was another one?

[pingpongsam]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

It’s a fantastic claim if it catches you in a lie. This is pretty clear town play from Glooble. To me, it was clear at least Glooble had no idea that another skitter was in the game. If MiX did, what would that indicate?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

It’s a fantastic claim if it catches you in a lie. This is pretty clear town play from Glooble. To me, it was clear at least Glooble had no idea that another skitter was in the game. If MiX did, what would that indicate?

I was hoping mix would answer my question before we followed this line of thought...

[EFHW]

Oh I have pps' "fakeclaim": that's actually my real role.

I should put more PPEs...

pps's fakeclaim?

[pingpongsam]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

It’s a fantastic claim if it catches you in a lie. This is pretty clear town play from Glooble. To me, it was clear at least Glooble had no idea that another skitter was in the game. If MiX did, what would that indicate?

I was hoping mix would answer my question before we followed this line of thought...

 I agree. MiX, did you know?

[pingpongsam]

Oh I have pps' "fakeclaim": that's actually my real role.

I should put more PPEs...

pps's fakeclaim?

I suggested that MiX may be currently leveraging a fake claim.

[2.71828.....]

I suppose I should go read up on the wiki about skitter rebel leaders....

[EFHW]

Oh I have pps' "fakeclaim": that's actually my real role.

I should put more PPEs...

pps's fakeclaim?

Ok, I see it.  At least we got to this with time to find someone else. unvote. I was voting e because he wasn't MiX.

[EFHW]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

Why are you grouping consistent defenders with no position people and putting occasional defenders in a separate group that isn't suspicious? Why are the consistent defenders suspicious at all?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.9:

MiX (6): WCD, pubby, Space, Glooble, PPS, shraeye
2.7 (2): gkrieg, Awaclus
Datswan (2): Galzria, joth
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
EFHW (1): faust

Not Voting (4): 2.7, ADK, Datswan, EFHW

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[MiX]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

Were you aware that there was another one?

No.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

Were you aware that there was another one?

No.

Then what was the deal with your "the other one" wording? How do you know there aren't 3?

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, a lot happened overnight. Just caught up but have to go out for the rest of the afternoon/evening my time.

unvote for now. I'm not certain I believe MiX, and I agree with ADK's statement that MiX's definition of IC doesn't seem to be as strong as most.

[MiX]

Based solely on my own role PM, I’m pretty sure MiX is lying.

Sooo you're the other skitter? I don't think that was a good claim to make.

Were you aware that there was another one?

No.

Then what was the deal with your "the other one" wording? How do you know there aren't 3?

Flavor: given how tied Red Eye and Paint Face are it would be imcredibly weird if there was a third rebel skitter leader that I completely missed when researching about the skitter rebellion.

Wow, a lot happened overnight. Just caught up but have to go out for the rest of the afternoon/evening my time.

unvote for now. I'm not certain I believe MiX, and I agree with ADK's statement that MiX's definition of IC doesn't seem to be as strong as most.

Eeeeeh I'm not joking this time. That other game I was having fun with agressively getting towncred, now I'm actually trying to help: by day 3 I should be an IC. I hope, my plan has some potential flaws.

[faust]

Because she never suspected MiX.

I would say that you would also be in the grouping with e then, as you've been pretty consistently against the mix wagon for the whole day

I mean, that's for other people than me to decide. I did vote for MiX early, which is why I didn't put myself in that group.

[faust]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

Why are you grouping consistent defenders with no position people and putting occasional defenders in a separate group that isn't suspicious? Why are the consistent defenders suspicious at all?

Because I think that not all scum would join the MiX wagon.

[pingpongsam]

..now I'm actually trying to stave off getting lynched; by day 3 our scum fix should be in...

FTFY?

[pingpongsam]

Are we to believe we have 2 skitter leaders both human town aligned that did not know about each other? This is probably my biggest struggle with the MiX claim. If he had claimed third party but willing to win with town I might feel differently. I’m just not buying he is fully human aligned and lying about that makes me want him lynched rather than risk it.

[MiX]

Are we to believe we have 2 skitter leaders both human town aligned that did not know about each other? This is probably my biggest struggle with the MiX claim. If he had claimed third party but willing to win with town I might feel differently. I’m just not buying he is fully human aligned and lying about that makes me want him lynched rather than risk it.

It's crazy I know, but would you rather have me lie about being third-party?

..now I'm actually trying to stave off getting lynched; by day 3 our scum fix should be in...

FTFY?

What does "scum fix" even mean?

[faust]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

[pingpongsam]

Are we to believe we have 2 skitter leaders both human town aligned that did not know about each other? This is probably my biggest struggle with the MiX claim. If he had claimed third party but willing to win with town I might feel differently. I’m just not buying he is fully human aligned and lying about that makes me want him lynched rather than risk it.

It's crazy I know, but would you rather have me lie about being third-party?

..now I'm actually trying to stave off getting lynched; by day 3 our scum fix should be in...

FTFY?

What does "scum fix" even mean?

I don’t know but if you and your clan survive at least 3 days you could be assured of victory? I dunno, I’m just saying there can easily be ulterior motives for requesting to stay alive for a specific period of time. If I knew anything about flavor I’d likely either give a good example or not have even thought along these lines.

[pingpongsam]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

Why EFHW, again? Last I checked you just decided to limit the pool based on the MiX shakeup and decided not e and somebody else, right?

[faust]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

Why EFHW, again? Last I checked you just decided to limit the pool based on the MiX shakeup and decided not e and somebody else, right?

I am not sure I understand what you mean. I think that, regardless of MiX's alignment (but I'm pretty sure he's town), not all scum were voting for him. So I singled out people who weren't voting for him (EFHW, e, gkrieg, and maybe you want to include me if you disregard my early-game vote). I think there's scum here, I think e has been kind of townie and anyway the other two in the group are on the e wagon. I'm voting for EFHW because I think she has done distancing to the MiX wagon to appear townie rather than because she wanted to prevent his lynch.

[Glooble]

vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

EFHW expresses a pretty clear opinion of mix here

True, I missed that. Well it still puts her in the same group, just paired with e rather than gkrieg.

Why are you grouping consistent defenders with no position people and putting occasional defenders in a separate group that isn't suspicious? Why are the consistent defenders suspicious at all?

Because I think that not all scum would join the MiX wagon.

They might join it briefly and then "think better of it."

I'm not going to defend anyone strenuously on Day 1. There are too many possibilities.

[Galzria]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

Considering it, but not for the thank-you PM. Still processing MiX’s claim tbh, but I’m not opposed to EFHW or Swan.

[MiX]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

Okay? I'll hold you to this promise.

Vote: EFHW

[pingpongsam]

faust, do you believe that MiX is town?

[pingpongsam]

I’d ask the same of Glooble but I can’t really trust his response due to the skitter tie in. There’s only one right answer for him.

[faust]

faust, do you believe that MiX is town?

You're not reading my replies to you?

regardless of MiX's alignment (but I'm pretty sure he's town)

[pingpongsam]

faust, do you believe that MiX is town?

You're not reading my replies to you?

regardless of MiX's alignment (but I'm pretty sure he's town)

Haha fair, enough. I overlooked the parenthetical, there. The bit about regardless of alignment I guess was too much dissonance for that extra bit. I’ll bite

Vote: EFHW

[pingpongsam]

Faust and EFHW, you both know flavor well enough, can both skitter leaders be human aligned town?

[faust]

Faust and EFHW, you both know flavor well enough, can both skitter leaders be human aligned town?

I don't know the flavor at all.

[MiX]

Faust and EFHW, you both know flavor well enough, can both skitter leaders be human aligned town?

Yes, because they're part of the skitter rebellion, which allies the humans and volm and dor...dol...the other dudes.

[pingpongsam]

Faust and EFHW, you both know flavor well enough, can both skitter leaders be human aligned town?

I don't know the flavor at all.

Hmm, I gathered that you did for the part you intentionally withheld earlier.

[pingpongsam]

When MiX crushes us with his 3 day scum fix because we fell for some fake claim when we had him D1 I expect an additional apology in my thank you PM.

[pubby]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

[Glooble]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Why would I answer that?

[MiX]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Don't answer. Pubby please trust me when I say it's very important I hide which of those I am.

[EFHW]

This is awkward, but my limited access is starting in like half an hour. I feel like faust's groupings of people is super arbitrary and everything he is saying about me applies to him just as well.

vote:Galzria

[Glooble]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Don't answer. Pubby please trust me when I say it's very important I hide which of those I am.

Don’t worry MiX. We’re on the same page. Provided you’re town, I mean.

[pubby]

I'm going to assume I'm right 

vote: unvote

[pingpongsam]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Would you expect both players to be fully town aligned and not third party?

[MiX]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Would you expect both players to be fully town aligned and not third party?

Pps, last I remember I was scum trying to "fix" something to win, yet you keep pushing the third-party angle. Pick one!

I think the Dornia would be a better third-party pick anyway, those guys sure look evil just from reading the wiki.

[pubby]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Would you expect both players to be fully town aligned and not third party?

Based on flavor, I think it's likely that their faction can change to be either town or scum. Apparently in the show they started out as evil and became good after a few seasons.

[pubby]

This of course relates to harnesses which the OP mentioned.

[pingpongsam]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.

Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Would you expect both players to be fully town aligned and not third party?

Pps, last I remember I was scum trying to "fix" something to win, yet you keep pushing the third-party angle. Pick one!

I think the Dornia would be a better third-party pick anyway, those guys sure look evil just from reading the wiki.

Yeah, dude, scum is used as meaning not town. Scum can be Mafia, SK, etc. Etc. Third party is scum but there are degrees. Survivor is scum but he can share a town win condition. You emphatically stayed you were town, though, and that I find very hard to believe. If you lied then I believe it is because you either want to preserve the option to win with the favorable faction at the time it presents itself or because you actually have a wincon counter to town. According to what I am reading and seeing here I strongly suspect the former and mostly dismissed the latter.

[MiX]

Right, scum is just non-town. Fine then.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

[Glooble]

I have already said too much. There is additional information which will probably be safe to reveal on day two, I think we should hold off lynching MiX until then.

[pingpongsam]

Right, scum is just non-town. Fine then.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

I just do it buy that bugs are fully aligned with humans. The rest of your play makes sense when viewed in a third party style. I think you were forced to claim and instead of risking getting lynched for not being 100% town you lied. The reasons for the lie range from probably okay to not get lynched to outright doomsday for town so I say why take the risk to town? If you had been forthcoming to begin with (assuming you are lying) I would not be so stuck on the issue.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't want to lynch mix (or glooble) today given that we can lynch mix day three if he doesn't deliver on his promise

I do find it interesting that EFHW attacks faust's logic but then votes for galz instead of faust

vote: efhw

[MiX]

What part of REBELLION do you not understand? The 2 flavor names I could have actively fight the flavor that is the scum team: why on earth can't they be town? They're just as allies to humans as the Volm are: how many third-parties do you think exist?

[2.71828.....]

So.... Why are we lynching EFHW?

[jotheonah]

vote: pps

[pubby]

vote: wcd

[faust]

This is awkward, but my limited access is starting in like half an hour. I feel like faust's groupings of people is super arbitrary and everything he is saying about me applies to him just as well.

vote:Galzria

Well I'm not going to suggest that I am scum anytime soon if that's what you were hoping for.

[faust]

So.... Why are we lynching EFHW?

For all the nice thank-you PMs of course.

For reals though, I have laid out my case, I'm not sure why you need to keep asking.

[2.71828.....]

People who voted MiX or expressed intent to hammer over the course of the game.

Awaclus (130), pubby (132), faust (133), Galzria (218), ADK (248), Didds (249), Glooble (250), pubby (269), pps (275), Space (292), jotheonah (371), Awaclus (375), Glooble (384), Glazria (385), DatSwan (469), pps (486), ADK (502), shraeye (526), joth (546)

People who defended MiX or questioned votes on him:

Didds (134), faust (somewhere in there, sorry forgot to add), jotheonah (254), jotheonah (311), e (389)

Notable:
- the only player to consistently defend MiX is e.
- the only players who have not gone on the record regarding MiX are gkrieg and EFHW.

I think that it is very likely that there is scum in this group of 3. Probably even more than one.

Because PoE based on a random standard you created?

There are also three people whose username starts with the letter "g"

Pretty sure there is scum in gkrieg, Glooble, and galzria. We should lynch there

[2.71828.....]

I admit, your metric is slightly more persuading.

[MiX]

vote: wcd

Case?

[2.71828.....]

How about the intersection?

Vote: gkrieg

Fits your group, my group, plus the added benefit that I think gkrieg is more likely to do that sort of thing than EFHW

[Galzria]

Being honest here Faust, I prefer (think it’s more likely) Swan. EFHW has traditionally been difficult for me to ping correctly as scum (she’s very good at hiding as scum imho), but I agree with your general assessment in regards to her approach with the MiX wagon.

vote: EFHW

[2.71828.....]

So I know I was being a little annoying earlier with how I characterized faust's case, but the longer I actually think about it I kind of do like it. But I also like gkrieg over EFHW

[MiX]

But I also like gkrieg over EFHW

I'm around here as well. I'll be productive IRL tomorrow, hopefully metareading both of these, they're my favourite lynches by far.

[jotheonah]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

[Glooble]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

Pubby’s reaction is scummier imo.

[MiX]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

It's not only the towniest way possible, it's also incredibly scummy if I AM scum, because it's putting preemptive holes in my claim for me to defend immediately in a controlled environment (assuming we're buddies).

PPE: It's close to towniest as well. Scum know what's scummy and purposedly avoid it (I know I do).

[pingpongsam]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

I think MiX is either truly claiming or using his fake claim seeing as his claim was forced. I maintain that he is probably lying about being town aligned. No one but MiX himself has even bothered to try to explain why that would not be the case. It seems everyone else is willing to believe he must be town due to his claim. I am the sole person questioning it, so this is patently untrue.

[pingpongsam]

What part of REBELLION do you not understand? The 2 flavor names I could have actively fight the flavor that is the scum team: why on earth can't they be town? They're just as allies to humans as the Volm are: how many third-parties do you think exist?

The part where I am reading about skitters capturing and harnessing humans and turning them into drones for the Espheni. I do it doubt you have a safe fake claim as a skitter. That Glooble came forth the way he did makes me feel certain he is the town aligned skitter if there even is one. You are having us believe that not only are you a town aligned skitter but one of two leaders. It seems too convenient and too much like a well read fake claim.

[MiX]

What part of REBELLION do you not understand? The 2 flavor names I could have actively fight the flavor that is the scum team: why on earth can't they be town? They're just as allies to humans as the Volm are: how many third-parties do you think exist?

The part where I am reading about skitters capturing and harnessing humans and turning them into drones for the Espheni. I do it doubt you have a safe fake claim as a skitter. That Glooble came forth the way he did makes me feel certain he is the town aligned skitter if there even is one. You are having us believe that not only are you a town aligned skitter but one of two leaders. It seems too convenient and too much like a well read fake claim.

Okay am I crazy or did you completely miss the part that there's a skitter rebellion, I'm one of the leaders of said rebellion, and they very clearly side with the humans. I literally reread the wiki page about it, they're so incredibly town it's silly for you to think otherwise, I don't know maybe it's just me, but fighting the normal skitters kinda makes you on the good side, righr? What does anyone else have to say about this?

[Glooble]

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

[MiX]

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

It's scummy, but scum pubby doesn't do it.

[pingpongsam]

What part of REBELLION do you not understand? The 2 flavor names I could have actively fight the flavor that is the scum team: why on earth can't they be town? They're just as allies to humans as the Volm are: how many third-parties do you think exist?

The part where I am reading about skitters capturing and harnessing humans and turning them into drones for the Espheni. I do it doubt you have a safe fake claim as a skitter. That Glooble came forth the way he did makes me feel certain he is the town aligned skitter if there even is one. You are having us believe that not only are you a town aligned skitter but one of two leaders. It seems too convenient and too much like a well read fake claim.

Okay am I crazy or did you completely miss the part that there's a skitter rebellion, I'm one of the leaders of said rebellion, and they very clearly side with the humans. I literally reread the wiki page about it, they're so incredibly town it's silly for you to think otherwise, I don't know maybe it's just me, but fighting the normal skitters kinda makes you on the good side, righr? What does anyone else have to say about this?

No you're not crazy and I didn't miss it. I am saying this fits a fake claim perfectly. That's the extent of it.

[SpaceAnemone]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

It's not only the towniest way possible, it's also incredibly scummy if I AM scum, because it's putting preemptive holes in my claim for me to defend immediately in a controlled environment (assuming we're buddies).

I'm a bit lost in your reply here. Are you basically saying that if you're scum then PPS would be acting foolishly as your scum-buddy, so he can't be scum? That doesn't work because you could both be different flavours of scum. If you're town as you say you are, though, are you saying that you think PPS's response is townie? I'm genuinely just not sure I'm reading you correctly.

[MiX]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

It's not only the towniest way possible, it's also incredibly scummy if I AM scum, because it's putting preemptive holes in my claim for me to defend immediately in a controlled environment (assuming we're buddies).

I'm a bit lost in your reply here. Are you basically saying that if you're scum then PPS would be acting foolishly as your scum-buddy, so he can't be scum? That doesn't work because you could both be different flavours of scum. If you're town as you say you are, though, are you saying that you think PPS's response is townie? I'm genuinely just not sure I'm reading you correctly.

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

How do you feel about the fact that MiX stated publicly that he thinks (or at least thought?) that Pubby is town?

[SpaceAnemone]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

It's not only the towniest way possible, it's also incredibly scummy if I AM scum, because it's putting preemptive holes in my claim for me to defend immediately in a controlled environment (assuming we're buddies).

I'm a bit lost in your reply here. Are you basically saying that if you're scum then PPS would be acting foolishly as your scum-buddy, so he can't be scum? That doesn't work because you could both be different flavours of scum. If you're town as you say you are, though, are you saying that you think PPS's response is townie? I'm genuinely just not sure I'm reading you correctly.

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

... that didn't really clarify it for me!

Are you saying that pps is your buddy somehow? In what sense? He clearly doesn't seem to think he is.

[Glooble]

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

How do you feel about the fact that MiX stated publicly that he thinks (or at least thought?) that Pubby is town?

I thought that too. But I can't think of any reason a town-aligned player asks what he asks and states out loud what he stated out loud.

[Glooble]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.
.
Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Why does a town player ask this? How can public discussion of this theory possibly benefit town? The benefit to scum is clear.

[WestCoastDidds]

Wow, you all have been busy! I picked a bad weekend to go out of town...

I’ll read the 6+ pages of content tomorrow and get caught up in the morning.

One question in the meantime:

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

It's scummy, but scum pubby doesn't do it.

How do you know, MiX? Has pubby been scum before?

[SpaceAnemone]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.
.
Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Why does a town player ask this? How can public discussion of this theory possibly benefit town? The benefit to scum is clear.

What's your opinion of Pubby as a player? Is he newbie enough that he'd give himself away like that as scum?

[SpaceAnemone]

I’ll read the 6+ pages of content tomorrow and get caught up in the morning.

I'm still amused that you and I can be 6 geographical time-zones apart and yet maybe only 2-3 hours different in real terms. (For me it's just after midnight here and I've been tired all day, so it's definitely time to start leaving further engagement till the morning).

[Glooble]

In the show Paint Face gains power after Red Eye dies. MiX talking about gaining power after 3 days may be in reference to this.
.
Glooble, are you Red Eye?

Why does a town player ask this? How can public discussion of this theory possibly benefit town? The benefit to scum is clear.

What's your opinion of Pubby as a player? Is he newbie enough that he'd give himself away like that as scum?

I don’t know. I guess I can see this just being a poorly-thought-out town question. It’s just that MiX was so clear about it being Very Bad to say which of those flavor names was his.

So yeah I guess it’s pretty brazen as scum. Maybe too brazen for scum!pubby.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’ll read the 6+ pages of content tomorrow and get caught up in the morning.

I'm still amused that you and I can be 6 geographical time-zones apart and yet maybe only 2-3 hours different in real terms. (For me it's just after midnight here and I've been tired all day, so it's definitely time to start leaving further engagement till the morning).

F.ds...where early birds and night owls live peacefully together! I love it!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.10:

MiX (2): WCD, shraeye
2.7 (2): gkrieg, Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): 2.7
EFHW (5): faust, MiX, PPS, ADK, Galzria
Galzria (1) EFHW
PPS (1): joth
WCD (1): pubby
pubby (1): Glooble

Not Voting (2): Datswan, Space

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[pubby]

I don’t know. I guess I can see this just being a poorly-thought-out town question. It’s just that MiX was so clear about it being Very Bad to say which of those flavor names was his.

So yeah I guess it’s pretty brazen as scum. Maybe too brazen for scum!pubby.

I think there is a very possible chance that there is only 1 skitter and that skitter is Red Eye. The other skitter is a fake name. I think MiX could be lying, but I also think you could be lying. If both of you claim Red Eye, then hey! We've found scum in one of you.

To be clear, I think it's very suspicious that both of you are willing to claim rebel skitter leader but not reveal your name. You've narrowed it down to 2 possibilities, and presumably the abilities of both are very similar - surely you're the one making the blunder by exposing yourself, not me.

vote: wcd

Case?

No case and not serious vote but I think WCD is being ignored in favor of EFHW/gkrieg/e and I'd like to see more discussion there.

[Glooble]

I am fully willing to admit that I made a blunder but that doesn’t excuse you compounding that blunder.

I may be able to safely say more about this after night 1. Suffice it to say, my role PM makes it clear to me that scum knowing exactly who is who is very bad and clearly MiX, if town, has something similar in his.

[pubby]

I am going to continue to think out loud please don't get mad 

If both of you are town, then scum has targets in the two of you. If they kill one of you tonight, the other's name is exposed. Both of you seem like good targets for protection.

[jotheonah]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

I think MiX is either truly claiming or using his fake claim seeing as his claim was forced. I maintain that he is probably lying about being town aligned. No one but MiX himself has even bothered to try to explain why that would not be the case. It seems everyone else is willing to believe he must be town due to his claim. I am the sole person questioning it, so this is patently untrue.

I don’t think it’s at all the case that MiX’s claim makes him town. But I do think that it would be folly to lynch him right now. I think that’s where most of us are. We’re letting the claim buy him a day, because the cost benefit analysis favors it— why risk lynching a powerful town PR?

[Swowl]

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

I think MiX is either truly claiming or using his fake claim seeing as his claim was forced. I maintain that he is probably lying about being town aligned. No one but MiX himself has even bothered to try to explain why that would not be the case. It seems everyone else is willing to believe he must be town due to his claim. I am the sole person questioning it, so this is patently untrue.

I don’t think it’s at all the case that MiX’s claim makes him town. But I do think that it would be folly to lynch him right now. I think that’s where most of us are. We’re letting the claim buy him a day, because the cost benefit analysis favors it— why risk lynching a powerful town PR?

Risk is it is a powerful skum or with similar terms.
I need to catch up. There has been a lot in half a day. All i have really read is the claim. Skitters could be town, or third party imo... that’s pretty much as far as i have gotten so far.

[MiX]

I don’t know. I guess I can see this just being a poorly-thought-out town question. It’s just that MiX was so clear about it being Very Bad to say which of those flavor names was his.

So yeah I guess it’s pretty brazen as scum. Maybe too brazen for scum!pubby.

I think there is a very possible chance that there is only 1 skitter and that skitter is Red Eye. The other skitter is a fake name. I think MiX could be lying, but I also think you could be lying. If both of you claim Red Eye, then hey! We've found scum in one of you.

Alright let me just make this clear for the last time. This applies to pps and anyone who thinks skitters are third-party.

Glooble has the same "Rebel Skitter Leader" role. Therefore, we're either both part of the same third-party, which doesn't make sense given our flavor names (rebellion, remember that word) or one of us has another role and the skitter thing is a fakeclaim. Now, if it's a fakeclaim, why would my/Glooble's flavor have ANYTHING to do with skitters? If they're fakeclaims, they should at least be a plausible town name, right? Which means, regardless of what you think the rebellion is (town or third-party), the mod decided they were good fakeclaims, which means there was a possibility they would be regular town. Thus the skitter flavor inherently CAN be town, which means there's no point on saying it's most likely third-party: they can clearly be town.

Also, if only one of us is a skitter, we would have different names, that's how fakeclaims work in this setup.

pps is reacting in the scummiest way to the MiX claim IMO (assuming the MiX claim is true)

It's not only the towniest way possible, it's also incredibly scummy if I AM scum, because it's putting preemptive holes in my claim for me to defend immediately in a controlled environment (assuming we're buddies).

I'm a bit lost in your reply here. Are you basically saying that if you're scum then PPS would be acting foolishly as your scum-buddy, so he can't be scum? That doesn't work because you could both be different flavours of scum. If you're town as you say you are, though, are you saying that you think PPS's response is townie? I'm genuinely just not sure I'm reading you correctly.

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

... that didn't really clarify it for me!

Are you saying that pps is your buddy somehow? In what sense? He clearly doesn't seem to think he is.

I'm pretty sure he's town, and if I was scum he would be a good candidate for my scumbuddy.

[MiX]

Oh forgot about this:

vote: wcd

Case?

No case and not serious vote but I think WCD is being ignored in favor of EFHW/gkrieg/e and I'd like to see more discussion there.

I really don't want to lynch Didds, it tends to be something scum wants pretty much all the time. Now's not the time for it.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

... that didn't really clarify it for me!

Are you saying that pps is your buddy somehow? In what sense? He clearly doesn't seem to think he is.

I'm pretty sure he's town, and if I was scum he would be a good candidate for my scumbuddy.

I'm comfortable enough with you arguing that you're town and that you think PPS is town.

The flipside of that is just really weird for you to be arguing, though. I mean, I get that from everyone else's point of view, if you flip scum then PPS is more likely also to flip scum, but if you're telling the truth, this is impossible, so why waste everyone's time trying to state things this way?

Especially why do that when there's a very real possibility that if you're town you have no idea of PPS's alignment, so he very easily could just be some flavour of scum and you're just misleading people extra-hard if you get lynched and flip town? It seems like you're just trying to control everyone's thinking in a way that I can't see being good for town on average.

[MiX]

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

... that didn't really clarify it for me!

Are you saying that pps is your buddy somehow? In what sense? He clearly doesn't seem to think he is.

I'm pretty sure he's town, and if I was scum he would be a good candidate for my scumbuddy.

I'm comfortable enough with you arguing that you're town and that you think PPS is town.

The flipside of that is just really weird for you to be arguing, though. I mean, I get that from everyone else's point of view, if you flip scum then PPS is more likely also to flip scum, but if you're telling the truth, this is impossible, so why waste everyone's time trying to state things this way?

Especially why do that when there's a very real possibility that if you're town you have no idea of PPS's alignment, so he very easily could just be some flavour of scum and you're just misleading people extra-hard if you get lynched and flip town? It seems like you're just trying to control everyone's thinking in a way that I can't see being good for town on average.

I was pointing at holes in joth's logic. Saying my read on pps is a side effect.

On the other hand, I don't see how you pushing this matters at all, but I guess I'm biased.

[pingpongsam]

Mobile no quotes.

I’m tiring of this. I don’t know if MiX thinks I am dense or everyone else is. Yeah, I know a skitter can potentially be town aligned. In fact, I believe Glooble is exactly that. My contention is why would we need more than say, one of those? Also, the fact we have one is why, exactly, having a fake claim is so good. Apparently there are 2 such rebel skitter leaders to pull from. Why are they both active this game? My understanding is one came after the other in the timeline, they were not joining forces. They can’t both be leading at the same time. I’m not expecting or requesting answers to these questions. I’m saying questions rightfully arise. I’m saying if you are fake claiming these are all the points to lean on to support your claim. I’m saying at this point even if you are full claiming your true identity we still have good reasons to question that. Of course your fake claim should include the all important word Rebellion. What about the generations of skitters before or not part of the rebellion who did bad things to town? Those are the ones I am. Invented about.

We’ve beaten this horse to pieces. I am sure you will continue to expound upon your saintly, unassailable claim and how idiotic I must be to not accept it unquestionably. I, however, am done explaining why we’d all have to be idiots to not remain skeptical.

Meanwhile we have far better options to look into.

[pingpongsam]

A point I will acquiesce and which softens my stance considerably is that Glooble seconds the position that knowing which player is which skitter is potentially disastrous. I don’t think you could garner that from fake claim information. In order for this to be nefarious you and Glooble would be faction partners and I just don’t want to believe that for now.

[faust]

Mobile no quotes.

I’m tiring of this. I don’t know if MiX thinks I am dense or everyone else is. Yeah, I know a skitter can potentially be town aligned. In fact, I believe Glooble is exactly that. My contention is why would we need more than say, one of those? Also, the fact we have one is why, exactly, having a fake claim is so good. Apparently there are 2 such rebel skitter leaders to pull from. Why are they both active this game? My understanding is one came after the other in the timeline, they were not joining forces. They can’t both be leading at the same time. I’m not expecting or requesting answers to these questions. I’m saying questions rightfully arise. I’m saying if you are fake claiming these are all the points to lean on to support your claim. I’m saying at this point even if you are full claiming your true identity we still have good reasons to question that. Of course your fake claim should include the all important word Rebellion. What about the generations of skitters before or not part of the rebellion who did bad things to town? Those are the ones I am. Invented about.

We’ve beaten this horse to pieces. I am sure you will continue to expound upon your saintly, unassailable claim and how idiotic I must be to not accept it unquestionably. I, however, am done explaining why we’d all have to be idiots to not remain skeptical.

Meanwhile we have far better options to look into.

I will say that while I don't know for certain how ashersky designs his games, I don't think trying to determine alignment from flavor is useful. Saying something like "there should be only one town skitter" implies that there was a deliberate decision by the mod which flavors are going to be real and which will be fakeclaims. I know I try to avoid this whenever possible. When making a themed game, I write down a list of possible flavors and then randomize which are going to be real. This limits the amount of outguessing the mod games happening. ashersky is an experienced mod, I imagine he has similar methods for this.

[ashersky]

Dear players, a mod error was unknowingly uncovered a few days ago, and I've been contemplating how to (and whether to) correct it.  Luckily, it's a public error, so it's easily rectified, and in the end I've decided it's worth fixing.

My longstanding plurality lynch policy for days with ten or more players does not apply to this game.

That decision was made well before the game started, but I failed to remove it from my standard rules post.  A player brought it up in thread, which reminded me of that fact.  It was just an overlooked post edit.

I will not be commenting further.  My apologies for the disruption.

[Glooble]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

I'm going back to

vote: EFHW

for now I guess though I don't love it. I might like Galz a little more. I need to ISO him and I don't have time to do that while I'm at work today.

[jotheonah]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

[faust]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

Your points 1 and 2 contradict each other. If we have multiple NKs, then having an even number doesn't matter.

We have exposed some of town's knowledge today. I think that there is enough information to make a better-than-random lynch choice. If we exposed the information just to go on no-lynching, then we helped scum.

Also, where was this excitement for no lynch when you announced intent to hammer?

[faust]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

[jotheonah]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

Your points 1 and 2 contradict each other. If we have multiple NKs, then having an even number doesn't matter.

We have exposed some of town's knowledge today. I think that there is enough information to make a better-than-random lynch choice. If we exposed the information just to go on no-lynching, then we helped scum.

Also, where was this excitement for no lynch when you announced intent to hammer?

Where is the excitement now? I haven't even voted for no lynch. I was just surprised no one's brought it up yet and didn't see the harm in broaching the subject. And that Glooble said "We need to find a lynch" which I consider to be kind of a scummy mindset (we don't need to find a lynch, we need to lynch scum -- big difference).

Anyway, your comments here are weaksauce because scum never ever argues for no lynch. Town argues about how good it is for scum, but scum would much rather have a townie lynch on day 1. They're easy enough to engineer and they move them toward their win con.

[jotheonah]

I can't right now

You're the second person to say something weird like this, which suggests you have a role-mandated restriction governing how/when you can vote. I wonder if that's something that ash gives to town, or to scum? Given that town's weapon is their vote, seems less bastardy for scum...

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.11:

MiX (2): WCD, shraeye
2.7 (2): gkrieg, Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): 2.7
EFHW (6): faust, MiX, PPS, ADK, Galzria, Glooble
Galzria (1) EFHW
PPS (1): joth
WCD (1): pubby

Not Voting (2): Datswan, Space

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[faust]

Anyway, your comments here are weaksauce because scum never ever argues for no lynch. Town argues about how good it is for scum, but scum would much rather have a townie lynch on day 1. They're easy enough to engineer and they move them toward their win con.

I'm pretty sure I remember a game in which scum!shraeye argued for no lynch.

[faust]

I can't right now

You're the second person to say something weird like this, which suggests you have a role-mandated restriction governing how/when you can vote. I wonder if that's something that ash gives to town, or to scum? Given that town's weapon is their vote, seems less bastardy for scum...

What? No. I can't right now because I need to keep the EFHW wagon going.

[Galzria]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

While I believe Joth is misguided in his thoughts on no lynch, I actually town read him pretty heavily. I’ve played too many games with Scum!joth that demonstrate his ability to play far more subtlety than he has here, whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

[faust]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

While I believe Joth is misguided in his thoughts on no lynch, I actually town read him pretty heavily. I’ve played too many games with Scum!joth that demonstrate his ability to play far more subtlety than he has here, whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

Well, he feels the same to me as in M120.

[jotheonah]

whatever. it was just a thought. I guess I can sheep vote: EFHW here.

I'm just not a fan of the day 1s where we push like 4 people to L1 and they all claim and then scum knows way too much and we end up lynching town anyway. to me, that's worse than a sensible no lynch.

[jotheonah]

whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

this is the meta I crave

[Glooble]

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

[Galzria]

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

[Glooble]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

These two posts from Galz, taken together, strike me as odd. It's not a contradiction per se, but if he really thinks MiX is probably scum, why say the intent to hammer was "to get reactions"? Thinking MiX is scum is reason enough. Also, the most common "reaction" you get from Intent to Hammer is a claim, but later Galz seems pretty emphatic that MiX shouldn'tclaim. So he's saying he did this for the reactions, but then saying one of the most likely reactions is something he specifically doesn't want?

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

Okay thanks. There was something I found a little scummy about your Swan case but with that context its not scummy.

[gkrieg13]

sorry all, trying to catch up from being gone and kind of failing atm. Will not be able to get to this. Still like my e vote, but will switch to get a lynch.

[Glooble]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

[Galzria]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

These two posts from Galz, taken together, strike me as odd. It's not a contradiction per se, but if he really thinks MiX is probably scum, why say the intent to hammer was "to get reactions"? Thinking MiX is scum is reason enough. Also, the most common "reaction" you get from Intent to Hammer is a claim, but later Galz seems pretty emphatic that MiX shouldn'tclaim. So he's saying he did this for the reactions, but then saying one of the most likely reactions is something he specifically doesn't want?

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

Okay thanks. There was something I found a little scummy about your Swan case but with that context its not scummy.

At the time of my intent to hammer, I would’ve been fine with MiX claiming, as I stated then. Stuff happened, votes changed, and the time when I suggested MiX NOT claim was no longer the same situation.

[pingpongsam]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Okay, so why then, are you voting Galz? Because EFHW is?

[pubby]

What? No. I can't right now because I need to keep the EFHW wagon going.

I know this is silly, but can you change your vote to joth, then change it right back to EFHW next post?

I really want to make sure there's no post restriction.

[Glooble]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Okay, so why then, are you voting Galz? Because EFHW is?

Because I think his reactions to the MiX wagon were scummy, and because I think his faust case was forced.


Specifically, his explanations for his intent to hammer seem more likely to come from scum then from town. Town!Galz who genuinely thinks MiX is scum doesn't have to say he did it to get reactions. He can just own the fact that he intended to hammer MiX because he thinks MiX is scum and wants to lynch him. The reactions thing sounds like its there to cover his ass when MiX flips town.

At the time of my intent to hammer, I would’ve been fine with MiX claiming, as I stated then. Stuff happened, votes changed, and the time when I suggested MiX NOT claim was no longer the same situation.

What stuff happened exactly? What was different about the situation?

[faust]

What? No. I can't right now because I need to keep the EFHW wagon going.

I know this is silly, but can you change your vote to joth, then change it right back to EFHW next post?

I really want to make sure there's no post restriction.

I think posting restrictions would be pretty bastardly anyways, but if it makes you happy...

Vote: joth

[faust]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Maybe I didn't get my point across very well? There are only 3 people who didn't at some point scumread MiX (or 4 if you want to count me I guess). I don't think all scum join a wagon on anyone really, and much less on someone who frequently attracts suspicion (and that is regardless of alignment). So there is scum in those 3, and EFHW is the scummiest among them.

[faust]

Oops. Vote: EFHW

[Glooble]

EFHW is the scummiest among them.

Why?

[faust]

sorry all, trying to catch up from being gone and kind of failing atm. Will not be able to get to this. Still like my e vote, but will switch to get a lynch.

If you don't expect to have more time I am asking you to drop out.

[faust]

EFHW is the scummiest among them.

Why?

I feel like she tried to avoid talking about MiX a lot, like she wanted to be distanced from the wagon but she didn't try to make anything else happen nor did she criticize it. I feel kinda townie on e, and I still have no data on gkrieg, so that seems like a good bet.

[Glooble]

EFHW is the scummiest among them.

Why?

I feel like she tried to avoid talking about MiX a lot, like she wanted to be distanced from the wagon but she didn't try to make anything else happen nor did she criticize it. I feel kinda townie on e, and I still have no data on gkrieg, so that seems like a good bet.

Reasonable I guess. So its more about what she hasn't said than what she has.


I gotta go back to work. I'll mull it over.

[Galzria]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Okay, so why then, are you voting Galz? Because EFHW is?

Because I think his reactions to the MiX wagon were scummy, and because I think his faust case was forced.


Specifically, his explanations for his intent to hammer seem more likely to come from scum then from town. Town!Galz who genuinely thinks MiX is scum doesn't have to say he did it to get reactions. He can just own the fact that he intended to hammer MiX because he thinks MiX is scum and wants to lynch him. The reactions thing sounds like its there to cover his ass when MiX flips town.

At the time of my intent to hammer, I would’ve been fine with MiX claiming, as I stated then. Stuff happened, votes changed, and the time when I suggested MiX NOT claim was no longer the same situation.

What stuff happened exactly? What was different about the situation?

From the original 8 (including myself with intent) of 15 possible votes, when I found MiX to be his scummiest, he went back to a true 8 with the addition of ADK & Shraeye - with a quick swap and essential intent to hammer from Swan. That’s 11-of-15 willing to lynch him, and I don’t believe scum-partners need to bus him so hard that he’s almost hammered (and potentially forced to claim) twice.

At the time of my stated “Don’t claim”, it was prior to Shraeye’s vote. Not voting were Faust (leaning back to town), Joth (read as Town), Shraeye (leaning town), EFHW (leaning scum), e (leaning scum), and myself (town). Of those, I knew I wasn’t going to hammer, and based on their play today neither were EFHW, Faust or e. That left MiX’s only real threat to be hammered coming from Joth & Shraeye. I didn’t think either of them would hammer without debate first, so I didn’t feel MiX was really in danger at that exact moment.

[shraeye]

Mix:
1. I don't believe the entirety of his claim; I fall mostly in pps's camp here.  I fully believe that he is a skitter, but he's yelling town-aligned too much for me to get behind that.

2. This is a reasonable idea:

I don't want to lynch mix (or glooble) today given that we can lynch mix day three if he doesn't deliver on his promise

except that I can right now think of at least 3 RMM-y ways where MiX is a baddy and this plan backfires.

3. Another idea in the soup:

Now, if it's a fakeclaim, why would my/Glooble's flavor have ANYTHING to do with skitters? If they're fakeclaims, they should at least be a plausible town name, right?

I can think of at least 2 RMM-y reasons that a fakeclaim should be skitter-related.

4. Unfortunately, too many people simply auto-backoff whenever any claim is made, so no way is a MiX lynch happening.  You know this is what puts us in the following terrible meta, right?

I'm just not a fan of the day 1s where we push like 4 people to L1 and they all claim and then scum knows way too much and we end up lynching town anyway. to me, that's worse than a sensible no lynch.

joth:
1. When did joth turn into shraeye? 
2. "We need to find a lynch" is a terrible mindset. 
3. So is

Still like my e vote, but will switch to get a lynch.

EFHW:
1. No thanks to that wagon
2. I don't like the appeal to emotion
3.

Why EFHW, again?

I think that, regardless of MiX's alignment (but I'm pretty sure he's town), not all scum were voting for him. So I singled out people who weren't voting for him (EFHW, e, gkrieg, and maybe you want to include me if you disregard my early-game vote). I think there's scum here, I think e has been kind of townie and anyway the other two in the group are on the e wagon. I'm voting for EFHW because I think she has done distancing to the MiX wagon to appear townie rather than because she wanted to prevent his lynch.

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

WCD:
1. wins the award for most "#TownyContribution #ScumHunt #DefinitelyTown #PleaseBelieveMe" post

Wow, you all have been busy! I picked a bad weekend to go out of town...

I’ll read the 6+ pages of content tomorrow and get caught up in the morning.

One question in the meantime:

I don't want to give anything else away - I think I've given away too much already. PPS, please trust me. MiX's claim makes sense as town.

I think pubby's attempt to get my flavor name was very scummy.

vote: pubby

It's scummy, but scum pubby doesn't do it.

How do you know, MiX? Has pubby been scum before?

[shraeye]

vote: WCD

[pubby]

Hunch: MiX and WCD as 3rd party Dornia faction. MiX has Paint Face as fake role.

[jotheonah]

Can I interest anyone else in the pingpongsam wagon? I think his pushing the MiX lynch in spite of the claim -- and his disingenuous characterization of the rest of the town as ICing MiX rather than merely delaying his lynch  -- add up to scum trying to push us into lynching either a PR or, more likely, a troublesome 3rd party.

vote: pingpongsam

[faust]

Can I interest anyone else in the pingpongsam wagon? I think his pushing the MiX lynch in spite of the claim -- and his disingenuous characterization of the rest of the town as ICing MiX rather than merely delaying his lynch  -- add up to scum trying to push us into lynching either a PR or, more likely, a troublesome 3rd party.

vote: pingpongsam

No, MiX is spot on with his PPS read.

[faust]

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Based on what I know I would put the chances of MiX being town at 95%

[jotheonah]

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Based on what I know I would put the chances of MiX being town at 95%

this is a crazy amount of confidence and I would LOVE to know what on earth it's based on

[faust]

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Based on what I know I would put the chances of MiX being town at 95%

this is a crazy amount of confidence and I would LOVE to know what on earth it's based on

I bet you would.

[Galzria]

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Based on what I know I would put the chances of MiX being town at 95%

this is a crazy amount of confidence and I would LOVE to know what on earth it's based on

I bet you would.

Oh please. He’s obviously not asking you to reveal it / anything - and his statement is rather justified. I cannot personally believe that there’s anything you could know, based on MiX’s claim and your own flavor, that would lead you to believe MiX is “95% town”. The level of exaggeration there seems ridiculous. But do I think you may have something that leads you to believe MiX, and as I personally think he’s either town or 3rd, it’s not like I’m looking to lynch there.

[pubby]

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

vote: MiX

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

(I guess the 11 kids could reference something else, or include fake roles??? But I feel really good about voting MiX here)

[Glooble]

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

vote: MiX

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

(I guess the 11 kids could reference something else, or include fake roles??? But I feel really good about voting MiX here)

I don't think the harnessed kids are meant to represent the players.

[MiX]

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

vote: MiX

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

(I guess the 11 kids could reference something else, or include fake roles??? But I feel really good about voting MiX here)

Yo, one died at the start, what do you think that represents? Anyway this is precisely what I would expect from town!pubby here, and I will use it as indisputable proof that he's not scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

So much to process....

Shraeye, dude. "#PleaseBelieveMe"? Whatever. That's who I am and how I talk. If you have an argument beyond you don't like the way I sound in my checking-in-after -VLA post, let me know so I can answer it. Just not liking the way I talk? Come on.

Beyond that, I am also not convinced that MiX is town. I am not sure where that claim puts him, though, but I definitely don't see "rebellion" as being nearly as towny as he seems to think it is and I have serious doubts about his ability to make himself an IC on D3 because he may well be crowing his 3rd party rebellion victory by that point. MiX is one of those people who uses lots of universal claims and foregone conclusions which tend not to be substantiated. I am skeptical. But he is, indeed, D1 lynchproof again.

I am not fully feeling the EFHW wagon, and I am a little bit wary of how much faust is responsible for creating and maintaining it. But at this point, I don't have any reason not to trust him so vote: EFHW

I am not sure that we wouldn't be better served by a gkrieg or awaclus lynch, though.

[WestCoastDidds]

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

vote: MiX

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

(I guess the 11 kids could reference something else, or include fake roles??? But I feel really good about voting MiX here)

I don't think the harnessed kids are meant to represent the players.

Glooble, is the number of them significant? Do we need them to be living? Or dead (ugh)?

[pubby]

I don't think the harnessed kids are meant to represent the players.

It was mentioned twice, bolded twice in both opening posts. I do not think it was just flavor. Besides, my QT mentions the existence of harnessed roles. I know that players in this game are playing as harnessed kids.

[Glooble]

Glooble, is the number of them significant? Do we need them to be living? Or dead (ugh)?

I have no inside information, but my theory is if they somehow all die we will lose.

I don't think the harnessed kids are meant to represent the players.

It was mentioned twice, bolded twice in both opening posts. I do not think it was just flavor. Besides, my QT mentions the existence of harnessed roles. I know that players in this game are playing as harnessed kids.

I’m sure they are mechanically relevant but I don’t think they correspond to specific players.

[jotheonah]

So much to process....

Shraeye, dude. "#PleaseBelieveMe"? Whatever. That's who I am and how I talk. If you have an argument beyond you don't like the way I sound in my checking-in-after -VLA post, let me know so I can answer it. Just not liking the way I talk? Come on.

Beyond that, I am also not convinced that MiX is town. I am not sure where that claim puts him, though, but I definitely don't see "rebellion" as being nearly as towny as he seems to think it is and I have serious doubts about his ability to make himself an IC on D3 because he may well be crowing his 3rd party rebellion victory by that point. MiX is one of those people who uses lots of universal claims and foregone conclusions which tend not to be substantiated. I am skeptical. But he is, indeed, D1 lynchproof again.

I am not fully feeling the EFHW wagon, and I am a little bit wary of how much faust is responsible for creating and maintaining it. But at this point, I don't have any reason not to trust him so vote: EFHW

I am not sure that we wouldn't be better served by a gkrieg or awaclus lynch, though.

Or a pps lynch??

You don't need a reason to distrust faust, btw. go with your gut.

[WestCoastDidds]

Or a pps lynch??

You don't need a reason to distrust faust, btw. go with your gut.

Don't you feel like pps is just caught up in an a tussle with MiX? I agree with his main point (or what I think is his main point) that MiX's claim doesn't make him town. Everything else seems to be stylistic differences.

I am wary of how much faust is directing things right now, and worry that we could all be being played by a MiX/faust mashup.

[SpaceAnemone]

I actually like what faust is trying to do with the POE on the MiX wagon, but I think the fact that the wagon never had more than 8 people on it at once is important, so I want to work the whole argument through in my own way.

While it's quite rare to get all n scum on the same wagon (certainly when n>2), it's not so hard when the wagon is smeared out in time. Incidentally, for wagon-analysis doubters, the fact that scum don't tend to clump all on one wagon tends to hold regardless of whether the wagon itself is on scum or town.

The two L-1 instances were:

#502-#503: MiX (8): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, Glooble, DatSwan, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel
-- after which Swan unvoted. And
#526-#561: MiX (8): WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, Glooble, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel, Shraeye
-- after which ADK unvoted.

I would be happy to assert that the group of 9 players there probably does not represent our full complement of main-baddie-scum, assuming that faction has at least 3 players.

The remaining six players (skipping MiX) are: faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e.

Now, faust grouped himself and Joth as MiX-voters, and Galz as the intent-to-hammer exception. Personally, I'd be willing to grant Joth membership into our MiX-voting club because he was on an earlier part of the wagon that hit L-2. I guess I'd give faust an out because he wouldn't really be building this kind of a case if it incriminated him.

That leaves at least one scum in Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, under the assumptions about how many scums, and if we assume that the scumteam haven't deliberately all piled on the same wagon just because they expect there to be lots of wagon analysis that they want to confuse. I'd be okay considering that group the lynchpool for now. I don't think EFHW has really been scummy so far, though! It's also awkward that both she and gkrieg have had VLAs :-(

I need to do more re-reading of the other two... but that will need to wait till tomorrow.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count the 3rd

2.71828..... (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
EFHW (6): MiX, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, faust, WestCoastDidds
Galzria (2): EFHW, Glooble
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1): Shraeye
pingpongsam (1): jotheonah
MiX (1): pubby

Not Voting (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone

[A Drowned Kernel]

I have had a couple of hell days at work and am a little behind in this game, I will try to make a useful contribution this evening

[Swowl]

Summarizing this ish out of this because there has been soooo much in since I checked in:

1) Mix Claim:
- First and foremost this feels like the game to me where mix was SK and we ran them up day 1 and 2 and 3 and I was just hardcore defending them the whole time.
- The above obviously makes no sense if MiX is actually a third party, because of their claim.
- That leaves 2 options... either skum or town.
- I am admittedly in a weird spot with my opinion on the MiX wagon. Galz called me out on the time that I joined it based on the players on the wagon. I do not 100% agree with the their overall decision, but there is credit in the logic upon thinking about it more thoroughly.
- To approach it from my own angle, this was the wagon when I joined
MiX (7): WCD, pubby, Space, joth, Awaclus, Glooble, Datswan
Galzria (2): faust, EFHW
Awaclus (1): MiX
2.7 (4): gkrieg, Galzria, PPS, ADK
Not Voting (2): shraeye, 2.7
-PPS then follows, putting MiX at L-1.
- Players off of MiX, after PPS votes, are [Faust, EFHW, GK, Galz, ADK, Shraeye, E].

- Mix then claims, wagon is dismantled and the EFHW wagon is made. Currently consisting (I think) of [faust, MiX, PPS, ADK, Galzria].
- So, [Faust, Galz, ADK] all did not want to vote MiX at the apex of wagon, but are also all on board with EFHW.

- That last point does not mean that that group is skummy... they could be town, and I actually think that to the most part they are all playing normally. The issue is that the idea of the EFHW wagon is based on the ideal that MiX is town... which I am absolutely not sold on.

- I see the reasoning behind not lynching MiX today... which I do not like 100% agree with, but I also do not think I am gonna rally enough troops for a MiX lynch over EFHW at this point because of those reasons. I would rather lynch E instead of EFHW honestly at this point. I will vote any of the three to get the lynch off (as I was apparently wrong about the plurality) thing), but I prefer E/MiX to EFHW I think.

I am gonna read over things again before I decide for sure, this read back was slightly rushed.

[Swowl]

I have finished reading back - looked more closely specifically at interactions with EFHW - i will expand shortly but i take back my previous conclusion . MiX is still my preference but EFHW is a close second.

I want to follow up on one more angle - a few hours irl time.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Did big ol' reread and have consolidated my reads:

Towny:

glooble- I don't think scum does the skitter claim thing, and I don't think mix's partner does it if they're third party. Also seemed to be generally inquisitive in his posts on a reread

PPS- his posting seems pretty organic when I reread it. I don't think scum would continue to push for a mix lynch after that claim as belligerently as he did

shraeye- has been hanging back a bit even since his vla ended but his big posts are pretty substantial. I also find his unconcern about the no-lynch issue kind of towny- scum!shraeye probably tries to play up his meta

Mild Town:

gkrieg- vla, and the couple of posts he has made don't seem particularly scum motivated. I do agree with faust that if he can't actually participate in the game he should maybe look for a sub

galz- seems to be pursuing his scumreads and cases pretty earnestly, didn't like a lot of early posts but now that the game is swing I'm leaning town here

pubby- the “ally” thing seems unlikely to come from scum. Has some opportunistic seeming voting as the day goes on but it seems in character from when I've played with him

Null:

mix- I'm really not sure how I feel about the claim but he's given us something very verifiable so I'm willing to back off today. Also on a reread he was less overtly scummy than I was remembering

awaclus- is awaclus

space- hard for me to read, very detached style of posting, though there does seem to be honest probing/questioning in a lot of their posts.

Mild Scum:

faust- aggressive pushing on cases that I don't particularly like. I try not to think that someone's scum because I disagree with them but man. I really don't like his breakdown of people after the mix wagon, it seems very artificial. I also get a pretty strong partner vibe between faust and e, they have a number of posts addressing each other without indicating reads on each other and its setting my radar off

EFHW- another difficult person for me to read. Seems to be hanging back a little, maybe a little opportunistic. But I'm once again getting spooked by how many people are okay with her lynch

datswan- his weird setup/numbers stuff just seems like null stuff for swan and not something I'm inclined to read into. Did seem a little antsy when mix was at L-1 and he had intended to hammer, his defensiveness around being scummy after the mix hammer read as very nervous to me

Scummy:

WCD- I think I have some sort of bias here because I feel like I find WCD scummy all the time but man. The suspicion on shraeye when he was VLA was weird, a lot of her posts seem, I don't know, like she's fishing for viable lynch. Kind of artificial

e- As I said above there seems to me like there's a partner-y feel between faust and e. His super defense of mix at L-1 is super strange, I think there's a world where mix is town (or at least not e's partner) and e is trying to set up a “I told you so!” for the next day

joth- on a reread joth is just mega scummy, there's a lot opportunistic wagon jumping, his switch on mix seemed kind of artificial to me. I'm having a hard time pinning down what I find so scummy here but I think that after a reread he's actually my preferred lynch for the day

vote: joth

[gkrieg13]

I have requested a sub

[faust]

To everyone who is like "I'm not comfortable with the EFHW wagon" - what you really need to do is make a case on someone else. It's easy to criticize any case, but it's pretty pointless if you can't make a better one.

[faust]

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Based on what I know I would put the chances of MiX being town at 95%

this is a crazy amount of confidence and I would LOVE to know what on earth it's based on

I bet you would.

Oh please. He’s obviously not asking you to reveal it / anything - and his statement is rather justified. I cannot personally believe that there’s anything you could know, based on MiX’s claim and your own flavor, that would lead you to believe MiX is “95% town”. The level of exaggeration there seems ridiculous. But do I think you may have something that leads you to believe MiX, and as I personally think he’s either town or 3rd, it’s not like I’m looking to lynch there.

What leads me to believe that MiX is town is not based on flavor but rather on game mechanics.

[faust]

Also of course the fact that he's townie even without that additional info.

[Swowl]

I have finished reading back - looked more closely specifically at interactions with EFHW - i will expand shortly but i take back my previous conclusion . MiX is still my preference but EFHW is a close second.

I want to follow up on one more angle - a few hours irl time.

So the angle was something to do with cross referencing people on both the MiX wagon and the current EFHW wagon.

Here are the summary of options we have between Mix-EFHW in regards to the wagons:

1) It is very unlikely that the switch from MiX to EFHW dictates that both MiX and EFHW are skum.... but I suppose possible.
2) It could be that both of them are town and there is skum, or unknowing town, orcistrating the switch from one town to another.
3) It could be that Mix is skum and the wagon was shifted to town!EFHW
4) It could be that MiX is town and town also successfully shifted the wagon to skum!EFHW

MiX then either has, or came up with, the role they claimed regarding "being able to IC themself on day 2 or 3". I cannot wrap my head around how easily people swallowed that pill... but I am past fighting it for D1 at this point given the time remaining.

Peak MiX Wagon:
MiX (7): WCD, pubby, Space, joth, Awaclus, Glooble, Datswan

Peak EFHW Wagon:
EFHW (6): MiX, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel, Galzria, faust, WestCoastDidds


I have sat here on this page trying to come up with like 100 different angles in where this could make sense based on the players on wagon.... but in the end I have to let bias go I suppose.

Either:
1) MiX is Town and EFHW is Skum and there are like no similarities on the wagons because Skum was on Town!MiX and doesn't want to get on Skum!EFHW
2) MiX is Skum and EFHW is Town and there are like no similarities on the wagons because there wasn't a lot of skum on Skum!MiX but now they have obviously jumped on the EFHW Counter Wagon.
3) They are both Town and Skum is just messing with us.
4) They are both Skum in which case - whatever good for us.

I am PPEd of Faust post saying "you can argue with it all you want but if you can't make another case then what's the point?" - this is a fair point. My only other case is MiX, and that evidently isn't happening, so

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

that is L-2 if I am correct

[SpaceAnemone]

@Swan, we have some disagreeing to do :-)

Peak MiX Wagon:
MiX (7): WCD, pubby, Space, joth, Awaclus, Glooble, Datswan

Nope!

The two L-1 instances were:

#502-#503: MiX (: WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, Glooble, DatSwan, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel
-- after which Swan unvoted. And
#526-#561: MiX (: WestCoastDidds, pubby, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, Glooble, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel, Shraeye
-- after which ADK unvoted.

Also:

The issue is that the idea of the EFHW wagon is based on the ideal that MiX is town... which I am absolutely not sold on.

Not exactly! As I also said in that post I just quoted, the basic argument says that there should be at least one scum in MiX, faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, and that holds regardless of MIX's alignment. The rest of the whittling to get down to the EFHW wagon is based on people's personal reads, though faust does put himself and Galz into a "willing to vote MiX" bin that rescues them from that list.. though I don't think the evidence for doing that is very strong.

[Awaclus]

Vote: EFHW

That's L-1 if DatSwan is correct.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.12:

MiX (1): pubby
Uncleeurope (1): 2.7
EFHW (7): MiX, PPS, Galzria, faust, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus
Galzria (2) EFHW, Glooble
PPS (1): joth
WCD (1): shraeye
joth (1): ADK

Not Voting (2): Space, Uncleeurope

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[ashersky]

Uncleeurope has replaced gkrieg13.

[SpaceAnemone]

Uncleeurope has replaced gkrieg13.

Welcome Uncleeurope :-) Thanks for subbing into such a complex game! Have you been reading along so far?

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: EFHW

That's L-1 if DatSwan is correct.

Turns out Swan was not correct after all :-P It's probably just because he missed that ADK had moved their vote from EFHW over to Joth since the previous count.

I'm still not jumping on the wagon till I've had time to ponder the other players in that lynchpool. I won't be home till ~9pm my time tonight, though, so no serious reading till then...

[faust]

Vote: joth

[jotheonah]

Can we not today? We have less than 24 hours. I promise y’all can come after me tomorrow. Deal?

vote: EFHW I guess

[jotheonah]

That’s L-2.

[Glooble]

That’s L-2.

No, that’s L-1.

[faust]

That’s L-2.

No, that’s L-1.

No, I moved away from EFHW.

[faust]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

[Glooble]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

Well this is blatantly untrue.

I tried to start a Galz wagon. Faust tried to start a joth wagon. Joth tried to start a pps wagon. No one picked up on any of them, but that’s not the same thing as “zero effort to start a counterwagon.”

[MiX]

Faust tried to start a joth wagon.

Just now, yes. Although I agree with the Galz wagon part, how influencial does faust think scum are?

I haven't reread anything. I suppose I'll go for EFHW and joth because those are the best lynches today.

[jotheonah]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

[Glooble]

Faust tried to start a joth wagon.

Just now, yes.

He just voted now. He tried to start the wagon a lot earlier though.

[faust]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

Well this is blatantly untrue.

I tried to start a Galz wagon. Faust tried to start a joth wagon. Joth tried to start a pps wagon. No one picked up on any of them, but that’s not the same thing as “zero effort to start a counterwagon.”

Well I don't know how you think this would persuade me. I say "scum made no effort to start another wagon", and you counter: "these people have tried to start a wagon: me, you, and the person you are currently voting for". Which one of these are you trying to convince me is scum? You? Then, strange strategy. Me? Well, good luck. joth? But I don't need any convincing there...

[Glooble]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

You didn't say anything about scum.

[Glooble]

Though I guess if what your saying is "If EFHW were scum, one of her buddies would be picking up one of these alternate wagons" that makes a certain amount of sense.

Not a super clear way to state it though.

[Uncleeurope]

Hello, people. I have mostly been reading along, although not as thoroughly as I would had I been in the start.

That being said I give my understanding a solid 85%.

Or something...

Vote: e for now, although I would also be fine with a handful of other people.

[faust]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

You didn't say anything about scum.

I thought it was pretty clearly implied. But here's the thought process in detail.

1) There was not much effort to start another wagon.
2) If EFHW is scum, then scum has a strong incentive to start another wagon.
3) Noone put much effort into another wagon, ergo scum did not.
4) Since scum did not try to to start another wagon, it is likely that EFHW is town.

In order to convince me this is wrong, you would have to show evidence that scum did put effort into starting another wagon, and your post didn't exactly help there.

[Glooble]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

You didn't say anything about scum.

I thought it was pretty clearly implied. But here's the thought process in detail.

1) There was not much effort to start another wagon.
2) If EFHW is scum, then scum has a strong incentive to start another wagon.
3) Noone put much effort into another wagon, ergo scum did not.
4) Since scum did not try to to start another wagon, it is likely that EFHW is town.

In order to convince me this is wrong, you would have to show evidence that scum did put effort into starting another wagon, and your post didn't exactly help there.

Such an adversarial stance, faust. Now that I'm following your thought process I agree with you.

[faust]

Such an adversarial stance, faust. Now that I'm following your thought process I agree with you.

Sorry, I didn't intend for it to come across this way.

What are your feelings about joth by the way?

[Glooble]

Such an adversarial stance, faust. Now that I'm following your thought process I agree with you.

Sorry, I didn't intend for it to come across this way.

What are your feelings about joth by the way?

Was townreading at first, starting to scumread more lately. Need to reread before I put a vote there. I know time is of the essence.

[Glooble]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

Joth, do you still find this reasoning craptastic? Also have your feelings on no lynch changed?

[Uncleeurope]

Actually, what do people think about ADK?

And does anyone have any questions for me?

[MiX]

Actually, what do people think about ADK?

And does anyone have any questions for me?

Reads on me/faust/EFHW/joth in reverse order please.

[Uncleeurope]

In reverse order? Uhhh... I’ll do this instead.

Would kill today: Joth, EFHW

Wouldn’t: MiX, Faust

There are degrees there, but I’d rather not explainify much more than that.

How about ADK, tho?

[pingpongsam]

I am not opposed to a joth lynch. I am a little leary of confirmation bias because he has been trying to implicate me. He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch. I know we have had a dearth of wagons but I haven't really seen joth averse to lynching anyone except maybe Mix although he did start out there IIRC. That is suggestive of town...

The EFHW wagon was interesting from a POE perspective. The other major candidate in that process was e. I am not opposed to an e lynch, either.

[WestCoastDidds]

Eddie! How are you? I hope the post-vacation summertime is treating you well.

What is the vibe you are getting on ADK? It's funny, they say that they always scum read me and I almost always scumread them and find thier play in this game especially under the radar, but most of our games have been blitz with a far greater percentage of scum so I keep trying to keep my sense of their scumminess in check, so I am interested in hearing someone with fresh eyes.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Actually, what do people think about ADK?

And does anyone have any questions for me?

What are you feelings on faust?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eddie! How are you? I hope the post-vacation summertime is treating you well.

What is the vibe you are getting on ADK? It's funny, they say that they always scum read me and I almost always scumread them and find thier play in this game especially under the radar, but most of our games have been blitz with a far greater percentage of scum so I keep trying to keep my sense of their scumminess in check, so I am interested in hearing someone with fresh eyes.

If I'm under the radar in this game it's not because of my efforts, no one even responded to my big reads post up there. Frankly I feel kind of invisible this game

[pingpongsam]

I will be available until roughly 7 hours before deadline. I will still be asleep at deadline.

[WestCoastDidds]

Building on faust/space's previous POE...

The non-MiX folks were Galzria, EFHW, Eddie, and e

The non-EFHW voters were Eddie, e, shraeye, pubby, and space

Would scum e stay off two town wagons? Or are Galz and Shraye taking turns being off-wagon?

[WestCoastDidds]

If I'm under the radar in this game it's not because of my efforts, no one even responded to my big reads post up there. Frankly I feel kind of invisible this game

:/

You asked about faust....what are you thinking there?

[faust]

Would scum e stay off two town wagons? Or are Galz and Shraye taking turns being off-wagon?

I mean sure it doesn't hurt scum!e to stay off the town wagons - there are no dangerous alternative wagons around.

But at the same time, you should take wagon analysis of EFHW with a grain of salt as by that time scum have already been alerted that town is watching the wagon compositions.

[WestCoastDidds]

Would scum e stay off two town wagons? Or are Galz and Shraye taking turns being off-wagon?

I mean sure it doesn't hurt scum!e to stay off the town wagons - there are no dangerous alternative wagons around.

But at the same time, you should take wagon analysis of EFHW with a grain of salt as by that time scum have already been alerted that town is watching the wagon compositions.

Isn't scum always aware that town is watching the wagons?

[WestCoastDidds]

But I get the point that the MiX one is maybe more valuable than the EFHW one.

[Glooble]

Let's look at joth. Specifically his interaction with the MiX wagon.

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

I actually agree but I want to know what you think of MiX.

1. MiX always comes off scummy and is usually town.
2. MiX is reading no scummiest than normal to me this game.
3. I’m weary of the size and speed of the MiX wagon.

All that adds up to a likely mislynches to me and I’d like to look elsewhere.

I keep thinking about what PPS said about MiX’s wagon:

It’s not the fast build you have to worry about, it’s the ones that get pretty far and then stall out mysteriously.

Pretty much exactly what’s happened with MiX.

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

I don't know what to do with these three quotes. Because joth is criticizing town for letting the MiX wagon stall out when he himself is a big part of the reason it stalled out. He says there's no compelling counterargument, but the biggest counterargument was his own. At the very least it caused me to leave the wagon. I don't see a town narrative or a scum narrative that neatly explains that behavior.

[jotheonah]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

[pingpongsam]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

Right you are. No lynch is included in the list of any lynches you will take.

[jotheonah]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

Joth, do you still find this reasoning craptastic? Also have your feelings on no lynch changed?

That reasoning is fine unless faust is the partner. Right? But yeah, there has been plenty of effort to get someone other than EFHW lynched, as you pointed out. It hasn't been emphatic, but that makes sense. It's day 1. EFHW's partners would probably rather have bus cred than make themselves obvious by trying to derail the wagon. If they were going to derail it, they'd do it exactly how faust just did. So it's not a compelling case to me.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced EFHW is scum. I trust that a number of my fellow townies think she is and she seems like a better wagon than me, or Galz, or MiX, or any of the other wagons that have the potential to actually get there in the next 19 hours.

To answer your other question, I would love to no lynch, honestly. But nobody else seems inclined.

[jotheonah]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

Right you are. No lynch is included in the list of any lynches you will take.

No lynch is explicitly not a lynch.

[jotheonah]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

Right you are. No lynch is included in the list of any lynches you will take.

No lynch is explicitly not a lynch.

In fact, it's the only thing that's not a lynch.

[jotheonah]

pps, if your charge is "he seems desperate to get day 1 over with" then guilty the hell as charged

[Glooble]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

Joth, do you still find this reasoning craptastic? Also have your feelings on no lynch changed?

That reasoning is fine unless faust is the partner. Right? But yeah, there has been plenty of effort to get someone other than EFHW lynched, as you pointed out. It hasn't been emphatic, but that makes sense. It's day 1. EFHW's partners would probably rather have bus cred than make themselves obvious by trying to derail the wagon. If they were going to derail it, they'd do it exactly how faust just did. So it's not a compelling case to me.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced EFHW is scum. I trust that a number of my fellow townies think she is and she seems like a better wagon than me, or Galz, or MiX, or any of the other wagons that have the potential to actually get there in the next 19 hours.

To answer your other question, I would love to no lynch, honestly. But nobody else seems inclined.

Didn't faust start the EFHW wagon though? Doesn't make a lot of sense to start a wagon on your partner, push it super hard, and derail it at the last minute.

[jotheonah]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

Joth, do you still find this reasoning craptastic? Also have your feelings on no lynch changed?

That reasoning is fine unless faust is the partner. Right? But yeah, there has been plenty of effort to get someone other than EFHW lynched, as you pointed out. It hasn't been emphatic, but that makes sense. It's day 1. EFHW's partners would probably rather have bus cred than make themselves obvious by trying to derail the wagon. If they were going to derail it, they'd do it exactly how faust just did. So it's not a compelling case to me.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced EFHW is scum. I trust that a number of my fellow townies think she is and she seems like a better wagon than me, or Galz, or MiX, or any of the other wagons that have the potential to actually get there in the next 19 hours.

To answer your other question, I would love to no lynch, honestly. But nobody else seems inclined.

Didn't faust start the EFHW wagon though? Doesn't make a lot of sense to start a wagon on your partner, push it super hard, and derail it at the last minute.

Yeah, I guess that's fair. It's still very possible that faust is just wrong and just did scum's work for them.

Glooble, who do you think is scum? Who would you like to lynch today?

[jotheonah]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

Joth, do you still find this reasoning craptastic? Also have your feelings on no lynch changed?

That reasoning is fine unless faust is the partner. Right? But yeah, there has been plenty of effort to get someone other than EFHW lynched, as you pointed out. It hasn't been emphatic, but that makes sense. It's day 1. EFHW's partners would probably rather have bus cred than make themselves obvious by trying to derail the wagon. If they were going to derail it, they'd do it exactly how faust just did. So it's not a compelling case to me.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced EFHW is scum. I trust that a number of my fellow townies think she is and she seems like a better wagon than me, or Galz, or MiX, or any of the other wagons that have the potential to actually get there in the next 19 hours.

To answer your other question, I would love to no lynch, honestly. But nobody else seems inclined.

Didn't faust start the EFHW wagon though? Doesn't make a lot of sense to start a wagon on your partner, push it super hard, and derail it at the last minute.

I mean, doesn't it, though? If the derail doesn't work, you get excellent town cred because of the case you're making right now. If it does work, you both get excellent town cred. I wouldn't put it past faust as a maneuver.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.13:

MiX (1): pubby
Uncleeurope (1): 2.7
EFHW (7): MiX, PPS, Galzria, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus, joth
Galzria (2) EFHW, Glooble
WCD (1): shraeye
joth (2): ADK, faust
2.7 (1): Uncle

Not Voting (1): Space

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didn't faust start the EFHW wagon though? Doesn't make a lot of sense to start a wagon on your partner, push it super hard, and derail it at the last minute.

Except that is super smart because it essentially clears him, right? Why not start a wagon on your buddy and push it hard if you are reasonably confident that you can derail it so they don't get lynched and you come off looking more awesome in the end? Whenever I play with faust, I feel like he is playing chess and I am playing checkers because he is three or four levels ahead of "and then this will happen, and then this will happen..."

[Glooble]

Glooble, who do you think is scum? Who would you like to lynch today?

I don't know. Galz is still rubbing me the wrong way but that's not getting any traction really and his response to my case on him was... reasonably plausible. I still haven't ruled you out. E is someone a lot of people have expressed interest in lynching but no one seems to be pushing very hard. Might be worth a look.

Not sure if I'd hammer EFHW to get a lynch at this point. Keep going back and forth.

PPE: If we really think faust is playing 3-D chess I feel like the correct move would be to lynch EFHW today rather than faust, so I guess that's a point in favor of that wagon.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If I'm under the radar in this game it's not because of my efforts, no one even responded to my big reads post up there. Frankly I feel kind of invisible this game

:/

You asked about faust....what are you thinking there?

I've been finding faust kind of scummy this game. I'm curious to hear Eddie's opinion specifically though

[jotheonah]

Didn't faust start the EFHW wagon though? Doesn't make a lot of sense to start a wagon on your partner, push it super hard, and derail it at the last minute.

Except that is super smart because it essentially clears him, right? Why not start a wagon on your buddy and push it hard if you are reasonably confident that you can derail it so they don't get lynched and you come off looking more awesome in the end? Whenever I play with faust, I feel like he is playing chess and I am playing checkers because he is three or four levels ahead of "and then this will happen, and then this will happen..."

I want to believe this is true, but I actually don't. Usually the crazier the scum plan, the less likely it is that scum is actually doing it, especially on day 1. I retract my comment about wanting to lynch faust. I think he's most likely town at this point, unfortunately.

[Uncleeurope]

My opinion of Faust?

My opinion of you?

[WestCoastDidds]

I mean, doesn't it, though? If the derail doesn't work, you get excellent town cred because of the case you're making right now. If it does work, you both get excellent town cred. I wouldn't put it past faust as a maneuver.

Ha! Same!  But I guess if we can both figure it out, its maybe not so next level at all....

PPE: More samesies

[faust]

PPE: If we really think faust is playing 3-D chess I feel like the correct move would be to lynch EFHW today rather than faust, so I guess that's a point in favor of that wagon.

Maybe I am not parsing this correctly, but it reads to me like "under the assumption that faust is scum, the best move is to lynch someone other than faust".

[MiX]

If joth flips town, faust and EFHW lose every towncred they would be building up for with the play. It's so useless it can't come from scum!faust.

Joth is soooooo scum, it's crazy.

[faust]

Joth is soooooo scum, it's crazy.

And yet you're voting for EFHW...

[pingpongsam]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

Right you are. No lynch is included in the list of any lynches you will take.

No lynch is explicitly not a lynch.

You are so wound up you're missing the joke. My whole point is you appear townie because you don't seem concerned with who we do or do not lynch. All options are on the table. Scum is about limiting options.

[A Drowned Kernel]

My opinion of Faust?

My opinion of you?

faust

[pingpongsam]

PPE: If we really think faust is playing 3-D chess I feel like the correct move would be to lynch EFHW today rather than faust, so I guess that's a point in favor of that wagon.

Maybe I am not parsing this correctly, but it reads to me like "under the assumption that faust is scum, the best move is to lynch someone other than faust".

I took it more as faust is always playing 3D chess and the way to understand his moves are to play along for a while.

[Glooble]

PPE: If we really think faust is playing 3-D chess I feel like the correct move would be to lynch EFHW today rather than faust, so I guess that's a point in favor of that wagon.

Maybe I am not parsing this correctly, but it reads to me like "under the assumption that faust is scum, the best move is to lynch someone other than faust".

Not exactly. I think faust is town. The only scum!faust scenario that makes any sense at all to me is the one where EFHW is also scum. That's not true in reverse so I'd rather lynch EFHW. Plus there's already a huge wagon on EFHW, whereas its up in the air whether or not we'd have the votes for a faust lynch.

But honestly, I find that scum!faust gambit possibility pretty unlikely, so its kind of moot.

[Galzria]

Ya’ll are crazy. Joth is so ridiculously in his town!meta it’s literally impossible for him to be scum.

[jotheonah]

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

Oh I thought you were one of the people who wanted to lynch me. Carry on I guess.

Right you are. No lynch is included in the list of any lynches you will take.

No lynch is explicitly not a lynch.

You are so wound up you're missing the joke. My whole point is you appear townie because you don't seem concerned with who we do or do not lynch. All options are on the table. Scum is about limiting options.

[jotheonah]

Joth’s quote fail

Oh I thought you were one of the people who wanted to lynch me. Carry on I guess.

[Glooble]

I'm confused.

[faust]

I will by the way be around for the deadline. Not that I am particularly eager to switch my vote.

[2.71828.....]

Dinner now, catching up later.

[Uncleeurope]

My opinion of Faust?

My opinion of you?

faust

I am slightly biased seeing as I made a conscious decision to perms-trust Faust in order to simplify my life. That being said, I am not regretting that decision this game. Bossy players are townier than scummier on average.

I also think the neck sticking out for MiX is significant.

[Swowl]

Will be around pretty consistently until like 6 hours out... then unfortunately probably not at all until DL.

[pubby]

Any opinions of who could be scum if EFHW turns out to be town?

[jotheonah]

I won't be around much at all before deadline I'm afraid. I can check in tonight while I'm watching the debates.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: faust

He totally sold an EFHW wagon and it crept up. As it finally got big enough to be the definitive lynch he jumped off saying she must be town. What about the sale, faust? Are you not buying your own product? Not only does he get off his own wagon he goes to joth, who I may have initially been willing to lynch, but the more I think about I'm convinced is town.

[2.71828.....]

Any opinions of who could be scum if EFHW turns out to be town?

My first thought with this was how fatalistic, but then with the vote count it makes sense.  No real competing wagons right now.

So let's try.

vote: Galzria

[2.71828.....]

Vote: faust

He totally sold an EFHW wagon and it crept up. As it finally got big enough to be the definitive lynch he jumped off saying she must be town. What about the sale, faust? Are you not buying your own product? Not only does he get off his own wagon he goes to joth, who I may have initially been willing to lynch, but the more I think about I'm convinced is town.

Good point, but faust is just not getting lynched today.  I look forward to your case against faust tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

Ya’ll are crazy. Joth is so ridiculously in his town!meta it’s literally impossible for him to be scum.

About my Galzria vote - I don't have him in a obv!town category and this post just didn't feel right to me.  I feel like this is something scum would say.

[2.71828.....]

Rereading Galzria, and there is nothing that I can really latch onto to build a "good case" to garner support for a Galzria lynch.  These are things that I have noticed

1) Initial posts are just generally useful.  From providing a background on pubby from a previous game to providing a advantages/neutral/disadvantages of claiming.  Not scummy.  Just useful

2) The whole "Intent to Hammer" sequence that finds Galzria joking(?) about it not actually being L-1 then saying that he didn't know it was L-1.  He then immediately jumps into building a case against Swan and encouraging MiX not to claim anything.

3) and then continues to build a case against Swan and defend MiX.

And 4) He has convinced me.

vote: swan

[Glooble]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

[Glooble]

*or

[2.71828.....]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

I would prefer not to have to make that choice.

But in the end, I lynch EFHW when given that choice D1.

[2.71828.....]

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

Deadline is when?  6 a.m. Forum Time?  which makes it noon for me.  I will be online tomorrow to place a different vote if I need to.

[2.71828.....]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

What about you when given that choice?

[Glooble]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

What about you when given that choice?

Honestly can't decide. Leaning towards the lynch.

[SpaceAnemone]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

I don't get this.. to me, it looks like faust has been saying really sensible things, most of which follow really logically. Do you disagree with the logic faust is presenting, that he follows it all the way through to making recommendations about how town should behave, or just that he does it in kind of a bossy manner sometimes?

[pubby]

I don't think faust has been that sensible. He's making very strong claims and then reneging on them He's playing like me, basically. And his logic against EFHW was flawed to begin with.

I'm a little suspicious of him BTW but I don't see the point in voting for him yet.

[pubby]

vote: Galzria

I feel better about this than EFHW, for whatever reason.

[MiX]

So is everyone derailing every wagon at the same time? This makes me want to lynch EFHW even more!

Rereading is hard, but I'll be here around deadline, so maybe I can move somewhere useful?

[faust]

Vote: faust

He totally sold an EFHW wagon and it crept up. As it finally got big enough to be the definitive lynch he jumped off saying she must be town. What about the sale, faust? Are you not buying your own product? Not only does he get off his own wagon he goes to joth, who I may have initially been willing to lynch, but the more I think about I'm convinced is town.

Circumstances changed, I had more info, I changed my mind. You should try it some time.

[faust]

So is everyone derailing every wagon at the same time? This makes me want to lynch EFHW even more!

Rereading is hard, but I'll be here around deadline, so maybe I can move somewhere useful?

joth.

[faust]

Or e. Or Eddie. These are lynches I could get behind.

I have misremembered my schedule earlier, I won't make it for the deadline after all. But I will be around up to like 1 hour before deadline.

[MiX]

So is everyone derailing every wagon at the same time? This makes me want to lynch EFHW even more!

Rereading is hard, but I'll be here around deadline, so maybe I can move somewhere useful?

joth.

Reeeeeeally? Fiiiiiiine.

Vote: joth, but it's mostly because everyone's derailing the EFHW wagon.

[Galzria]

Why should anybody change from EFHW at this point? Faust’s “reasons” are that nobody is trying to make cases anywhere else, thus scum must be content with an EFHW lynch. This is categorically untrue - votes & cases have been made against me, Joth, Faust, e, ADK, Swan & more. The fact that none of those cases have gained traction is more a testament to the quality - but not the quantity.

I would argue that there have been attempts by a multitude of people to get a case, any case, to stick anywhere EXCEPT efhw.

The fact that the EFHW wagon is, generally speaking, rather townie is just bonus points. Town reads on Joth/WCD, Town-ish read on PPS, MiX is at the very least “not-Mafia”, Awaclus is Awaclus, and the only somewhat scummy player on wagon is Swan.

[MiX]

Why should anybody change from EFHW at this point? Faust’s “reasons” are that nobody is trying to make cases anywhere else, thus scum must be content with an EFHW lynch. This is categorically untrue - votes & cases have been made against me, Joth, Faust, e, ADK, Swan & more. The fact that none of those cases have gained traction is more a testament to the quality - but not the quantity.

I would argue that there have been attempts by a multitude of people to get a case, any case, to stick anywhere EXCEPT efhw.

The fact that the EFHW wagon is, generally speaking, rather townie is just bonus points. Town reads on Joth/WCD, Town-ish read on PPS, MiX is at the very least “not-Mafia”, Awaclus is Awaclus, and the only somewhat scummy player on wagon is Swan.

How many people are on the EFHW wagon now? I'm not sure if it's possible to get it going again, although I will help if it is.

[shraeye]

I actually like what faust is trying to do with the POE on the MiX wagon, but I think the fact that the wagon never had more than 8 people on it at once is important, so I want to work the whole argument through in my own way.

I do not like this doubling down on wagon analysis when we haven't even seen a flip.  Are you in agreement with faust that MiX is super-highly-likely town?

Not exactly! As I also said in that post I just quoted, the basic argument says that there should be at least one scum in MiX, faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, and that holds regardless of MIX's alignment.

So you'd rather look for "at least one" in 7 players instead of "at most two" in the remaining 9 (8 from your perspective)??

[shraeye]

Shraeye, dude. "#PleaseBelieveMe"? Whatever. That's who I am and how I talk. If you have an argument beyond you don't like the way I sound in my checking-in-after -VLA post, let me know so I can answer it. Just not liking the way I talk? Come on.

It's not me not liking the way you talk.  It's the substance of the question/point.  It just seems like too much effort for not much substance.

I like how you tie it to "checking in from VLA", though; it's poetic.  Reminds me of that time earlier this game where you tried to cast shade on me for not contributing despite also acknowledging the fact that I was unavailable.

[Uncleeurope]

EFHW would be okay with me, better than Joth, I think.

In a dream world we would take a closer look at ADK (who people refuse to talk about) or WCD (who people are extremely mixed on). And Space, but I always suspect Space for whatever reason.

And Awaclus, because Awaclus. Has he announced having less time? He seems quieter than usual, which is significant.

[jotheonah]

I highly dislike how faust is ordering everyone around. His turn against the EFHW wagon (and the craptastic reasoning behind it) makes it infinitely more attractive to me.

Would also happily start a faust wagon.

I don't get this.. to me, it looks like faust has been saying really sensible things, most of which follow really logically. Do you disagree with the logic faust is presenting, that he follows it all the way through to making recommendations about how town should behave, or just that he does it in kind of a bossy manner sometimes?

1 and 3. 2 is fine I guess.

[Galzria]

Why should anybody change from EFHW at this point? Faust’s “reasons” are that nobody is trying to make cases anywhere else, thus scum must be content with an EFHW lynch. This is categorically untrue - votes & cases have been made against me, Joth, Faust, e, ADK, Swan & more. The fact that none of those cases have gained traction is more a testament to the quality - but not the quantity.

I would argue that there have been attempts by a multitude of people to get a case, any case, to stick anywhere EXCEPT efhw.

The fact that the EFHW wagon is, generally speaking, rather townie is just bonus points. Town reads on Joth/WCD, Town-ish read on PPS, MiX is at the very least “not-Mafia”, Awaclus is Awaclus, and the only somewhat scummy player on wagon is Swan.

How many people are on the EFHW wagon now? I'm not sure if it's possible to get it going again, although I will help if it is.

She’s L-3

[jotheonah]

EFHW herself hasn’t chimed in in a while...

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count the 4th

2.71828..... (1): Uncleeurope
Galzria (3): EFHW, Glooble, pubby
EFHW (5): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1): Shraeye
jotheonah (3): A Drowned Kernel, faust, MiX
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

[shraeye]

There are 5 people I'd be happy to vote, and not a single vote for any of them, so that's donkey-stonkey:
WCD, Space, Glooble, MiX, DatSwan.

Why are we debating between EFHW/joth, and/or EFHW/nolynch??  We could easily put MiX back on the table.  Then there would only be one D1 claim, a claim we had time to process, and a claim multiple people suspect isn't 100% forthcoming.

Vote: Mix

[shraeye]

Right, Space's count immediately counters my point on DatSwan.  But I'm still voting Mix.  It's the right choice.

[Galzria]

Space Count the 4th

2.71828..... (1): Uncleeurope
Galzria (3): EFHW, Glooble, pubby
EFHW (5): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1): Shraeye
jotheonah (3): A Drowned Kernel, faust, MiX
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

I missed PPS’s switch to Faust, but I assume he’ll come back to EFHW.

[MiX]

Great wagons all around. Realistical wagons: Galzria/EFHW/joth. Wagons I'm willing to support: EFHW/joth. Vote untill I wake up:

Vote: EFHW

I do understand faust's theory, but what can scum do about EFHW? Maybe they thought it would die down or something, any movement is scummy when she flips scum.

[SpaceAnemone]

I do not like this doubling down on wagon analysis when we haven't even seen a flip.

If the thing being inferred doesn't require us to know the actual alignments of anyone, then I don't see why not having a flip precludes thinking logically about it...

Are you in agreement with faust that MiX is super-highly-likely town?

I'm highly uncertain. He claims he can become an IC, which I think is not likely in the real sense of IC. However, he pretty much has to do something spectacularly pro-town or get lynched off D3, so I'm willing to treat him as town for now, but overall to wait and see.

Not exactly! As I also said in that post I just quoted, the basic argument says that there should be at least one scum in MiX, faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, and that holds regardless of MIX's alignment.

So you'd rather look for "at least one" in 7 players instead of "at most two" in the remaining 9 (8 from your perspective)??

Yeah, because "at least one" means 1-3 (assuming 3 scums.. there may be more, and probably aren't fewer), whereas "at most two" means 0-2. Even if the 3-0 split (no scum on-wagon at all) is also very unlikely, that still leaves on average about 1.5 scum in each group, so the smaller group has the higher expected hit-rate, and that's before taking into account the fact that the smaller group also has the greater number of players I'm okay treating as town for now. In fact, given faust's more recent point about the EFHW wagon, I'm okay treating MiX, faust and EFHW as likely-town (or at least likely-not-main-scum-faction).

And before you ask, no, I don't think the fact that a few people have belatedly tried to get traction on other wagons means that there wasn't a relevant stretch of the game where nobody appeared to be doing so, so I'm willing to follow faust's suggestion to lynch elsewhere today.

[SpaceAnemone]

I re-read Galz, and I feel like he's both not been supportive of some stuff that seems very sensible to me (e.g. being critical of faust at #264, and also complaining about faust correcting Swan at #367), and also that he's generally more aware of the wagons and voting that maybe faust gave him credit for at the point faust discounted Galz from his lynchpool based on the intent to hammer MiX.. which means I think he really should be someone faust considered at the same time as he started up the EFHW wagon.

Vote: Galz

[SpaceAnemone]

I should be sort of around for deadline, in that it's at 11am my time, so I'll be at my computer, but also at work.

[Galzria]

I do not like this doubling down on wagon analysis when we haven't even seen a flip.

If the thing being inferred doesn't require us to know the actual alignments of anyone, then I don't see why not having a flip precludes thinking logically about it...

Are you in agreement with faust that MiX is super-highly-likely town?

I'm highly uncertain. He claims he can become an IC, which I think is not likely in the real sense of IC. However, he pretty much has to do something spectacularly pro-town or get lynched off D3, so I'm willing to treat him as town for now, but overall to wait and see.

Not exactly! As I also said in that post I just quoted, the basic argument says that there should be at least one scum in MiX, faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, and that holds regardless of MIX's alignment.

So you'd rather look for "at least one" in 7 players instead of "at most two" in the remaining 9 (8 from your perspective)??

Yeah, because "at least one" means 1-3 (assuming 3 scums.. there may be more, and probably aren't fewer), whereas "at most two" means 0-2. Even if the 3-0 split (no scum on-wagon at all) is also very unlikely, that still leaves on average about 1.5 scum in each group, so the smaller group has the higher expected hit-rate, and that's before taking into account the fact that the smaller group also has the greater number of players I'm okay treating as town for now. In fact, given faust's more recent point about the EFHW wagon, I'm okay treating MiX, faust and EFHW as likely-town (or at least likely-not-main-scum-faction).

And before you ask, no, I don't think the fact that a few people have belatedly tried to get traction on other wagons means that there wasn't a relevant stretch of the game where nobody appeared to be doing so, so I'm willing to follow faust's suggestion to lynch elsewhere today.

At #601 Faust was the first and only vote on EFHW. He had been there with nobody joining, so he offered thank-you PM’s for people to join. At #745 he switched his vote to Joth - Four posts after EFHW hit L-1 and six posts after she hit L-2.

The wagon had not been “sitting as the inevitable” that scum was “completely content with” for any truly significant period of time. In real life time, less than 36 hours.

[shraeye]

Not exactly! As I also said in that post I just quoted, the basic argument says that there should be at least one scum in MiX, faust, jotheonah, Galzria, EFHW, gkrieg, and e, and that holds regardless of MIX's alignment.

So you'd rather look for "at least one" in 7 players instead of "at most two" in the remaining 9 (8 from your perspective)??

Yeah, because "at least one" means 1-3 (assuming 3 scums.. there may be more, and probably aren't fewer), whereas "at most two" means 0-2. Even if the 3-0 split (no scum on-wagon at all) is also very unlikely, that still leaves on average about 1.5 scum in each group, so the smaller group has the higher expected hit-rate, and that's before taking into account the fact that the smaller group also has the greater number of players I'm okay treating as town for now.

This was more a rhetorical question that it looked.  My point was, saying "there has to be at least 1 in this set of 7 players, so therefore I deduce XXX" feels like a deduction based on a clever assumption.  But really that assumption doesn't PoE anything down for us...both alternatives are "some number of scum in a reasonably sized group".

It's utterly meaningless to do things like calculate "averages" unless you're willing to attach specific proabilities to 3-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3 scenarios.  And all of those probabilities are impossible to settle on because they will be influenced by things like "well person XX feels towny so I'll exclude them" or "person YY is pretty suspicious, so their probability is maybe increased some".

Without probabilities and averages and expected values, saying things like "higher expected hit-rate" is also meaningless.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Or e. Or Eddie. These are lynches I could get behind.

I have misremembered my schedule earlier, I won't make it for the deadline after all. But I will be around up to like 1 hour before deadline.

An Eddie lynch? Where's that coming from?

[pingpongsam]

EFHW herself hasn’t chimed in in a while...

She said earlier she was a hard VLA.

[jotheonah]

EFHW herself hasn’t chimed in in a while...

She said earlier she was a hard VLA.

...and no one thought this was relevant? That the default lynch we've been pushing is someone who can't claim or defend herself? Oy vey.

vote: no lynch

[jotheonah]

actually screw it vote: faust

[jotheonah]

Well I have to go to bed so I’ll go back to vote: EFHW. That’s L-2 I’m pretty sure.

For the record here’s where I stand: I’m personally fairly null on EFHW but people I am townreading support the lynch and people I’m scumreading are trying to stop it. And I dislike the viable alternative wagons.

I dislike that EFHW is not here to defend herself. That’s not cool. But it is what it is.

I will not be back before deadline. Good night and good luck.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ugh...I had forgotten about the hard VLA as well. Joths right...it’s not cool. I’ve had too much wine, so I’m gonna sleep for a little but I’ll be back before deadline, or at least that is my plan.

[Galzria]

Look, I’m not a huge fan of lynching someone who’s completely unable to defend themselves (or claim, or anything else) - but EFHW is V/LA regardless of her alignment... That is, scum can go/be on vacation just as much as town can. I don’t believe anybody should be granted immunity just on the basis that they’re V/LA. Not that I believe anybody here would ever abuse that... but it just presents a bad situation.

I believe EFHW is scummy for her play today. I think she’s scummy based on a certain amount of PoE. I think she’s scummy based on my other reads, and who’s been voting her and who’s been trying to derail her wagon.

I think EFHW is my best read to find scum today. And I believe she’s a better lynch than anybody that’s last minute random, or no lynch at all.

I’m sorry she’s V/LA. I’m sorry she can’t defend herself or claim. But I’m not moving my vote.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Galzria

For the sake of balance.

[Uncleeurope]

I think WCD deserves a bit more attention, but not today.

[pubby]

I think WCD deserves a bit more attention, but not today.

I mean, why not today? We still have time. And lots of people, including myself, scumread WCD.

vote: WCD

[Swowl]

Aright, convinced my better half to take the first driving shift. So i am around until she starts passing out at the wheel.

Is anyone else around?

[Uncleeurope]

Hi.

[faust]

Or e. Or Eddie. These are lynches I could get behind.

I have misremembered my schedule earlier, I won't make it for the deadline after all. But I will be around up to like 1 hour before deadline.

An Eddie lynch? Where's that coming from?

The same reasoning that led me to EFHW.

[faust]

I think WCD deserves a bit more attention, but not today.

I mean, why not today? We still have time. And lots of people, including myself, scumread WCD.

vote: WCD

No we don't have time. It's completely unrealistic to get 9 people on there.

[Swowl]

Vote: Galzria

For the sake of balance.

What does this mean? Balance of what - just the wagon size?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Galzria

For the sake of balance.

What does this mean? Balance of what - just the wagon size?

Indeed.

I am slightly annoyed that I actually am very bleh on a Joth lynch yet both Faust/MiX are committed to that concept. I feel like I could sheep there but it would be against my instinct.

[Swowl]

Vote: Galzria

For the sake of balance.

What does this mean? Balance of what - just the wagon size?

Indeed.

I am slightly annoyed that I actually am very bleh on a Joth lynch yet both Faust/MiX are committed to that concept. I feel like I could sheep there but it would be against my instinct.

Not a super huge fan personally of the Joth wagon. Faust hardcore rallying the troops for EFHW then asking people to start that wagon... to just then bail EFHW anyways. Kind of makes it seem set up tbh.

[2.71828.....]

I feel like scum are more comfortable sticking it out on a wagon than trying to find scum.

Another reason I like lynching Datswan.

I will check in to potentially change my vote during lunch (starting about 30 minutes before deadline)

[faust]

I feel like scum are more comfortable sticking it out on a wagon than trying to find scum.

Another reason I like lynching Datswan.

I will check in to potentially change my vote during lunch (starting about 30 minutes before deadline)

Dude open your eyes. This is not going to happen. Move somewhere reasonable.

[Swowl]

I feel like scum are more comfortable sticking it out on a wagon than trying to find scum.

Another reason I like lynching Datswan.

I will check in to potentially change my vote during lunch (starting about 30 minutes before deadline)

I mean when i voted here i was trying Toto find skum. I am staying here now because i think it is the best wagon.
While i would move in some spots to other players, i certainly am not a fan of promoting that wagon rn.


How exactly is what you are doing different from what you are accusing me of?

[Swowl]

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye

[faust]

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye

pubby has since voted for WCD.

[Swowl]

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (4): EFHW, Glooble, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WCD (1): Pubby

Corrected

[faust]

Anyone?

[faust]

There's no time right now, but we should look into e tomorrow. It's super sketchy how he parked his vote somewhere inconsequential just to give himself all the options right before the deadline, and has not commented on which wagon he prefers.

[MiX]

Hello, I'm here. I see that joth has stopped being a wagon and Galz is obviously town? Yeah I want EFHW lynched today.

Seriously, Galz is towny enough to not be the D1 lynch, get that out of your heads people. Whereas EFHW hasn't done anything spectacular.

[faust]

Hello, I'm here. I see that joth has stopped being a wagon and Galz is obviously town? Yeah I want EFHW lynched today.

Seriously, Galz is towny enough to not be the D1 lynch, get that out of your heads people. Whereas EFHW hasn't done anything spectacular.

I am not a big fan of the Galz wagon either, but I would prefer it over EFHW.

[Swowl]

She fell asleep. I’m now driving. I might be able to check in with a few minutes left

[Uncleeurope]

And I’m not seeing the Joth case yet, sigh...

I will vote any of the three.

[MiX]

Well, we're lynching town. Thus is D1.

Vote: Galz, EFHW's not really diverging from her town meta.

[faust]

I'm going to stay where I am.

[Uncleeurope]

I'm going to stay where I am.

No lynch > EFHW death?

[MiX]

I'm going to stay where I am.

Dude open your eyes. This is not going to happen. Move somewhere reasonable.

[Glooble]

I'm going to stay where I am.

No lynch > EFHW death?

Not this game.

[MiX]

Does anyone have a "EFHW is town" case other than faust's? I don't want to lynch Galz nor joth...but I do want a lynch. I think at this point I'll go anywhere, the odds we converge are pretty slim anyway.

[MiX]

Vote: EFHW to reread joth...man these 3 are hard to read! Hopefully joth will be easier.

[MiX]

Joth is not thinking about his read on me:

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

TWIST!

Seriously, e's reaction here is really over the top if he's just a townie who thinks MiX is towny. Source: I was a towny who thought MiX was townie and I would never freak out this much to defend him.

How much more useful is that wagon if we lynch MiX today and then have a flip to analyze with it though? Let's skip the half-measures and go for it. Plus he's scum.

Bolding mine.

Vote: joth

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm here but barely.

I'm willing to move to EFHW to get a lynch through.

I don't have a whole lot of opinion on Joth yet.. is he actually a viable alternative at this late stage?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Joth

[Glooble]

Joth is not thinking about his read on me:

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

TWIST!

Seriously, e's reaction here is really over the top if he's just a townie who thinks MiX is towny. Source: I was a towny who thought MiX was townie and I would never freak out this much to defend him.

How much more useful is that wagon if we lynch MiX today and then have a flip to analyze with it though? Let's skip the half-measures and go for it. Plus he's scum.

Bolding mine.

Vote: joth

That’s not really a contradiction because the first one is in the past tense.

[MiX]

Joth is not thinking about his read on me:

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

TWIST!

Seriously, e's reaction here is really over the top if he's just a townie who thinks MiX is towny. Source: I was a towny who thought MiX was townie and I would never freak out this much to defend him.

How much more useful is that wagon if we lynch MiX today and then have a flip to analyze with it though? Let's skip the half-measures and go for it. Plus he's scum.

Bolding mine.

Vote: joth

That’s not really a contradiction because the first one is in the past tense.

It is because he never unvoted me, which means the first quote is meaningless. Also see the context and how they're 1 hour apart.

[Glooble]

What are you talking about? He tried to derail your wagon earlier in the day. That’s clearly what he’s referring to there.

[MiX]

What are you talking about? He tried to derail your wagon earlier in the day. That’s clearly what he’s referring to there.

When? Besides, I wasn't at L-1 when he was townreading me, so the circumstances are different.

[Glooble]

I think I want to vote: Space

They feel off this game. And they’re exhibiting a sometimes-valid scumtell: over-explaining/defending all their actions.

I actually agree but I want to know what you think of MiX.

1. MiX always comes off scummy and is usually town.
2. MiX is reading no scummiest than normal to me this game.
3. I’m weary of the size and speed of the MiX wagon.

All that adds up to a likely mislynches to me and I’d like to look elsewhere.

This is what I’m talking about. But you’re right the situation is different and that argument isn’t great.

[SpaceAnemone]

Given the combination of people who're active in here just now, and the layout of the wagons, I think EFHW is the only lynch that has a chance of going through. That's because while the Joth set is growing, we'd need a lot of not-currently-here people to push it over the line.

vote: EFHW with apologies for jumping on the hard-VLA wagon. I don't have time to sit and track the thread up to deadline, but I'll try to check back and move if it really pushes something through.

I think this is the current state, unless there are PPE votes:
Galzria (3): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (5): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, jotheonah, SpaceAnemone
jotheonah (4): A Drowned Kernel, faust, MiX, Uncleeurope
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WestCoastDidds (1): pubby

[Glooble]

I basically feel the same as Space, except I don’t think I want to lynch joth.

vote: EFHW

I need to go back to sleep for an hour or I’ll be useless at work today.

[Swowl]

Driving use small sentences - do i neeed to move vote for lynch?

[MiX]

This is my joth case. For tomorrow.

ok, let's just remember that it's Glooble who misidentified L1. Galz and I just took his word for it. if anyone's trying to draw out claims...

Putting suspicion on the towniest person alive.

Let’s vote: e

See what everybody does with two equally viable L-4s.

"Pressure vote" would be a stretch, this actually does nothing, it's more of an unvote.

vote: DatSwan

because reasons

I like the reason, but I think joth should've explained more. Minor point.

Intent to hammer MiX.

Fishing for claims, can't be more obvious than this, I specifically said I would claim at L-1.

I can't right now

You're the second person to say something weird like this, which suggests you have a role-mandated restriction governing how/when you can vote. I wonder if that's something that ash gives to town, or to scum? Given that town's weapon is their vote, seems less bastardy for scum...

I forgot if town or scum thinks about this more, but it works as meaningless suspicion giving, since he states it makes more sense for scum.

He has been all about getting a lynch, any lynch. But, I mean, any lynch.

That's a weird way to describe the only person who suggested no lynch but ok.

He then proceeds to vote everywhere, as he has been before. Weird defense, too.

Then some faust things that actually make sense.

PPE 3:

Vote: EFHW

[MiX]

I'll be gone in 7 minutes, deadline's in 17 minutes right?

Driving use small sentences - do i neeed to move vote for lynch?

No

[2.71828.....]

Where are we at?

Vote: EFHW

I guess

[2.71828.....]

Is that the lynch or no?

[2.71828.....]

Driving use small sentences - do i neeed to move vote for lynch?

Just do it

[2.71828.....]

Driving use small sentences - do i neeed to move vote for lynch?

Just do it

Also that was a scummy post from Swan

[ashersky]

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

MiX (1): shraeye
EFHW (9): Galzria, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus, joth, Space, Glooble, MiX, 2.7
Galzria (1) EFHW
WCD (1): pubby
joth (3): ADK, faust, Uncle
faust (1): PPS

Not Voting (0):

With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ended at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[ashersky]

Twilight begins now.

[faust]

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

[faust]

Driving use small sentences - do i neeed to move vote for lynch?

Just do it

Also that was a scummy post from Swan

That we can agree on.

[MiX]

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

It's always the town that are the most dissappointing.

[Glooble]

Sucks that EFHW can’t give us any info at twilight. If she’s town, I mean.

The silver lining is there will eventually be good intel to be gained from all this scrambling.

[jotheonah]

Sucks that EFHW can’t give us any info at twilight. If she’s town, I mean.

The silver lining is there will eventually be good intel to be gained from all this scrambling.

That’s wishful thinking. The scrambling is great cover for scummy behavior. Why twilight and no flip?

[shraeye]

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

What metric do you measure terrible play by?

[WestCoastDidds]

Ugh, I overslept. Many apologies.

Twilight?!?

[faust]

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

What metric do you measure terrible play by?

In this case, failing to move your vote or at least clarify that you won't before the deadline.

[shraeye]

Oh yeah, that's simply awwwwful.  Good point

[ashersky]

Days are always stressful.  The sun is the one light you can't turn off; you just have to wait out the timer and hope you aren't seen in the spotlight.

Our group hid as best it could from the patrols.  There's nothing worse than the feeling of being unwelcome pests in your own home.  Someday, we will take this planet back.

Until then, we need to at least try to clean house.  We settled on EFHW today.  Even now I don't know if this is the best way to find the threats among us, but it's what we all signed up for.


EFHW has been lynched!  She was Scorch, the Espheni Overlord masquerading as Colonel Dan Weaver!


Night 1 starts now.  Action orders MUST be submitted within 24 hours.  Night will last a minimum of 48 hours.

[ashersky]

Another night, and it felt so long, like each night since the invasion.  Looking around, you have to wonder who you can trust, and who wants to end you.

The kids in the clearing, some movement.  One sat down.  And another...free!  I can see the harness on the ground, the kid running off to look for his parents.  Good luck kid.  Now, only ten kids left here to watch.

As the sun comes up, it's another day of stress and mistrust.  Of survive or expire.

No one died during the night!  Day 2 begins now.

[ashersky]

As the group gathers round, one thing becomes clear: Galzria is no threat to the good people of this planet.

Galzria is mod-confirmed to be Town.

[jotheonah]

vote: faust

I have a lot to say, but I am basically V/LA all weekend. As, I imagine is Glooble— we’re at a family reunion together.

[Uncleeurope]

The people that come away from yesterday looking iffy to me are Pubby and ADK.

If there was bussing I would expect it mostly from E here.

I don’t think anyone else just chills on EFHW’s wagon other than maybe Awaclus...? But I doubt it.

Last name in the pot is Shraeye, but only because I think he’s town and I regularly misread him.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, right, Faust, sure... I could see it. But I would rather not.

[pubby]

I feel like I'm right about 11 kids = 11 players. See Ash's latest post, and the post when EFHW died. Dan Weaver is a major plot character - why would be left out of the game unless there are 11 kids filling the roster?
 
See my first post:

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

I'm not joking around here. I think this is a huge lead.

Expected game setup:

11 Harnessed Kids
3 Espheni Scum (Queen, Scorch [EFHW], The Monk)
1 Skitter (Red Eye [Glooble])
1 Ally (me)

If there are 2 skitters, then that means there are only 2 scum. But with 16 players? To me it seems more likely that there's 1 skitter and 3 scum. And if there's only 1 skitter, MiX has to go.

vote: MiX

[Uncleeurope]

But no one died when a harnessed kid was set free. It might be a timer of sorts, but I highly doubt 11 of us are generic “kids”

In fact I know for certain (or strong implication) your list doesn’t add up based on my role.

[pubby]

If it's an 11-day timer isn't that really slow? I really want to know why Ash keeps bolding it :S

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.1:

faust (1): joth
MiX (1): pubby

Not Voting (13): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, Space, Glooble, Uncleeurope, 2.7, shraeye

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Awaclus]

Galzria is mod-confirmed to be Town.[/color]

I did this. I'm also hated now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: faust seems pretty obvious

[Uncleeurope]

Galzria is mod-confirmed to be Town.[/color]

I did this. I'm also hated now.

Ayyyy, good for you.


Also, the timer thing doesn’t have to be one a day, I would imagine it’s attached to power roles to free people or something.

That being said I dunno, all I know is it ain’t us people.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: ADK

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.2:

faust (2): joth, ADK
MiX (1): pubby
ADK (1): Uncle

Not Voting (12): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, MiX, Space, Glooble, 2.7, shraeye

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Awaclus]

Oh, and just so there's no confusion, hated that I take 1 less vote to get lynched. Not sure if that's something everyone knows.

[Awaclus]

Oh, and just so there's no confusion, hated means that I take 1 less vote to get lynched. Not sure if that's something everyone knows.

EBWOP

[Glooble]

So let’s say I have been told that the Espheni will be told my flavor name at the beginning of night two. Is there any reason for me not to share that info with town to level the playing field? Is there anything to be gained from it?

[Uncleeurope]

As In you got a message just now?

I guess that’s one of scum’s roles solved, if that’s the case.

[Uncleeurope]

This is the disadvantage of the whole “it’s really bad if they know my flavor name” talk from yesterday.

Do we want MiX or Glooble to claim first? Does glooble need to confirm to be one of those two names first? I have no idea how important this is.

[Galzria]

I’m pretty confident that I know what the Children are for. Don’t need to go into detail at this point - it’s not relevant to town right now.

[Glooble]

As In you got a message just now?

I guess that’s one of scum’s roles solved, if that’s the case.

No it was in my initial role pm.

[Galzria]

This is the disadvantage of the whole “it’s really bad if they know my flavor name” talk from yesterday.

Do we want MiX or Glooble to claim first? Does glooble need to confirm to be one of those two names first? I have no idea how important this is.

Neither should claim right now.

[Galzria]

So let’s say I have been told that the Espheni will be told my flavor name at the beginning of night two. Is there any reason for me not to share that info with town to level the playing field? Is there anything to be gained from it?

Probably, but not yet.

[pubby]

I want to hear if anyone has information on MiX (or Gooble) from last night before Glooble reveals anything.

[Galzria]

Galzria is mod-confirmed to be Town.[/color]

I did this. I'm also hated now.

Aye, thanks mate.

If I had been scum, would it have announced (would you be loved lol)? - That is, was it essentially a public copping, or did it only work if the player was Town? You don’t need to answer or give any more details on your role at this time if you don’t want to.

Why me?

[Galzria]

The people that come away from yesterday looking iffy to me are Pubby and ADK.

If there was bussing I would expect it mostly from E here.

I don’t think anyone else just chills on EFHW’s wagon other than maybe Awaclus...? But I doubt it.

Last name in the pot is Shraeye, but only because I think he’s town and I regularly misread him.

Why, why, and why?

[Galzria]

Pubby, are you purely, 100% town? Do you share my exact wincon in it’s entirety?

[Glooble]

This is the disadvantage of the whole “it’s really bad if they know my flavor name” talk from yesterday.

Do we want MiX or Glooble to claim first? Does glooble need to confirm to be one of those two names first? I have no idea how important this is.

The reason i said that was that at the beginning of the game I was told that the Espheni would be told my flavor name on night two. I figured there would be no reason for them to be told that if it wasn’t important.

Incidentally that’s why I was so cavalier about claiming yesterday- I figured if I was going to be outed night two anyway, there wasn’t a lot to lose.

[Galzria]

MiX, are you purely, 100% town? Do you share my exact wincon in it’s entirety?

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby was the most adamant late in the day that EFHW shouldn't be defaulted into dying, and tried to rally people away.

ADK is scum, which is significant. (I just feel it in my bones, also the off-wagon person I was most wary of pre-lynch. And I think off-wagon is the way to go today for obvious reasons.)

I could see scum hammering EFHW a lot more than I could see scum rallying under EFHW. Hence, scum!e (heh).

[Galzria]

Glooble - if Scum bussed EFHW, who is it and why?

[Uncleeurope]

This is the disadvantage of the whole “it’s really bad if they know my flavor name” talk from yesterday.

Do we want MiX or Glooble to claim first? Does glooble need to confirm to be one of those two names first? I have no idea how important this is.

The reason i said that was that at the beginning of the game I was told that the Espheni would be told my flavor name on night two. I figured there would be no reason for them to be told that if it wasn’t important.

Incidentally that’s why I was so cavalier about claiming yesterday- I figured if I was going to be outed night two anyway, there wasn’t a lot to lose.

Okay, that makes sense. In which case scum probably cares about flavor names, which I already suspected anyway.

[Galzria]

Pubby was the most adamant late in the day that EFHW shouldn't be defaulted into dying, and tried to rally people away.

ADK is scum, which is significant. (I just feel it in my bones, also the off-wagon person I was most wary of pre-lynch. And I think off-wagon is the way to go today for obvious reasons.)

I could see scum hammering EFHW a lot more than I could see scum rallying under EFHW. Hence, scum!e (heh).

Why would Scum!e, who hadn’t been online up to that point, come in and hammer his partner instead of simply not posting anything and letting the deadline, 90 seconds away, pass by?

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby was the most adamant late in the day that EFHW shouldn't be defaulted into dying, and tried to rally people away.

ADK is scum, which is significant. (I just feel it in my bones, also the off-wagon person I was most wary of pre-lynch. And I think off-wagon is the way to go today for obvious reasons.)

I could see scum hammering EFHW a lot more than I could see scum rallying under EFHW. Hence, scum!e (heh).

Why would Scum!e, who hadn’t been online up to that point, come in and hammer his partner instead of simply not posting anything and letting the deadline, 90 seconds away, pass by?

Well, I was going to hammer if he didn't, I assume he suspected that if he was scum. My E pick is based solely on me trying to choose the scummiest busser, and I think it would be him.

[Galzria]

So with your last post coming at 40 minutes to deadline, you were still there and ready to hammer within the final 90 seconds?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, I was doing other things, but I was ready to go if needed.

[Galzria]

Yup, I was doing other things, but I was ready to go if needed.

Why did you feel like Joth was more likely to be scum than EFHW?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, I was doing other things, but I was ready to go if needed.

Why did you feel like Joth was more likely to be scum than EFHW?

I was trusting Faust's logic regarding EFHW.

And yes, I realize I have the most awkward wagon placement, and I would be suspicious of me, too. I am the one person guaranteed to have been trying to set up another wagon, which is unfortunate.

[Galzria]

Yup, I was doing other things, but I was ready to go if needed.

Why did you feel like Joth was more likely to be scum than EFHW?

I was trusting Faust's logic regarding EFHW.

And yes, I realize I have the most awkward wagon placement, and I would be suspicious of me, too. I am the one person guaranteed to have been trying to set up another wagon, which is unfortunate.

Hey, Town is more often in the wrong place at the wrong time than scum.

Did you believe Faust when he said he wouldn’t hammer?

[Uncleeurope]

Yeppers

[Galzria]

Yeppers

Why is he less scummy than pubby & ADK, who weren’t even around at deadline to hammer scum?

[Uncleeurope]

Yeppers

Why is he less scummy than pubby & ADK, who weren’t even around at deadline to hammer scum?

I feel like what he did is suicidal for scum. In every possible way. Pushing hard (above average hard) for a partner then hard backing up? Seems insane. Obviously I could be wrong, and I have doubts, but still. That’s what I think.

[Galzria]

Alright , cool. Gonna go make dinner. Hopefully other people come by to talk about their feelings & reads. 😝

[pubby]

I absolutely didn't want to lynch EFHW yesterday and wouldn't have voted for her if I was online. It worked out though 

Pubby, are you purely, 100% town? Do you share my exact wincon in it’s entirety?

Yeah I'm 100% town and sure of it. I know people thought I was 3rd party, but I'm not. I'm guessing my wincon is the same text as yours.

I did this. I'm also hated now.

To be clear, you made yourself hated by targetting Galzria? Or did something else make you hated?

[2.71828.....]

Hey!

Scum D1 lynch and IC to start D2. Pretty awesome start. Also Awaclus is off the table for me with his claim

[Awaclus]

If I had been scum, would it have announced (would you be loved lol)? - That is, was it essentially a public copping, or did it only work if the player was Town? You don’t need to answer or give any more details on your role at this time if you don’t want to.

Why me?

It's not a targeted role, it confirms a random living townie.

To be clear, you made yourself hated by targetting Galzria? Or did something else make you hated?

Yes, I made myself hated by using that ability.

[faust]

If there was bussing I would expect it mostly from E here.

I wouldn't classify e's vote as bussing at all. He only voted when it was clear that EFHW was going to be lynched. For all wagon analysis purposes I would treat him as off-wagon.

[faust]

vote: faust seems pretty obvious

Does it? Why?

[faust]

So let’s say I have been told that the Espheni will be told my flavor name at the beginning of night two. Is there any reason for me not to share that info with town to level the playing field? Is there anything to be gained from it?

Well, we don't know if there are powers that are relevant during the Day. I personally have no use for your flavor name.

[faust]

Hey!

Scum D1 lynch and IC to start D2. Pretty awesome start. Also Awaclus is off the table for me with his claim

Not even mentioning no NK?

[faust]

I don't think Awaclus should be off the table for his claim. It may still be a scum power that enables something else. Maybe it kills Galzria in the long run, or something. I find it somewhat difficult to believe that RNG just happened to hit one of the towniest players around to IC.

[2.71828.....]

Hey!

Scum D1 lynch and IC to start D2. Pretty awesome start. Also Awaclus is off the table for me with his claim

Not even mentioning no NK?

Yeah, that too. I was going for more of a "we got an IC instead of a dead townie" line, but no NK is worthy of a spare mission

[2.71828.....]

Also, I claim IC for the hammer, and swan is scummy.

Why are people voting MiX still? That was so D1

Vote: Swan

[faust]

I have done some flavor research during the night, and it seems at the end of the show someone kills the Espheni Queen and that causes all Espheni to die. So that's a pretty big plot point and it may very well be in this game. Not sure yet what kind of implications that would have, but it seemed interesting enough to share.

[2.71828.....]

And faust starting the EFHW wagon then jumping off is mentionable, but not something that I think makes him the leading lynch candidate.

[2.71828.....]

This is the disadvantage of the whole “it’s really bad if they know my flavor name” talk from yesterday.

Do we want MiX or Glooble to claim first? Does glooble need to confirm to be one of those two names first? I have no idea how important this is.

Neither should claim right now.

Another point, galzria had a strong D1 - excited to see him as IC D2.

[Swowl]

Also, I claim IC for the hammer, and swan is scummy.

Why are people voting MiX still? That was so D1

Vote: Swan

Your hammer is towny but my refusal to move from EFHW is skummy. I could of swing the Joth wagon like 2-3 times... he’ll i could of voted Joth over EFHW in the first place.

Can i get a ballpark reason for your skum read on me?

[Swowl]

I have been literally either behind a wheel of a car or sleeeping for the last 3 days so i have yet to do any read backs.

Summary points while get into it:

1) kind of inclined to believe Awaclus on their claim. Based on reference to my role mechanics, as well as if it was a time bomb effect or something - i don’t think Awaclus would of claimed.

2) it’s an rmm - but like if Ash posts Galz is IC... he is IC right?

3) no one really brought it up - but the no NK thing is weird. I was expecting multiple nks tbh.


Ok - weak summary. Everything from phone this week. Let me dig in and I’ll get back in like a day.

Also i posted it in VLa thread, but i am semi vla until the 10th (like 1-2 posts a day).

[2.71828.....]

2) it’s an rmm - but like if Ash posts Galz is IC... he is IC right?

Yes. Mod lying is bastard, which this is not. Even then, it's a particularly bad form of bastard mafia. Galzria is 100% town

[2.71828.....]

Also, I claim IC for the hammer, and swan is scummy.

Why are people voting MiX still? That was so D1

Vote: Swan

Your hammer is towny but my refusal to move from EFHW is skummy. I could of swing the Joth wagon like 2-3 times... he’ll i could of voted Joth over EFHW in the first place.

Can i get a ballpark reason for your skum read on me?

I will go back and write up a good post for you. Who knows? Maybe I will find you more townie than I think you are kind of like when I was going back D1 trying to find a reason that galzria was scum I just ended up finding him town

[faust]

Does someone who has flavor knowledge have any idea what having a headache might indicate?

[MiX]

So let’s say I have been told that the Espheni will be told my flavor name at the beginning of night two. Is there any reason for me not to share that info with town to level the playing field? Is there anything to be gained from it?

This is annoying...I only wanted to reveal day 3. Also my IC-ing plan failed this day, will have to be day 3.

MiX, are you purely, 100% town? Do you share my exact wincon in it’s entirety?

Yes, all the way to "if when the night falls" part

Hence, scum!e (heh).

Well Uncle wins the pun game. Rest of the posts incredibly scummy trying to paint everyone as super scummy for their wagon placement

I have done some flavor research during the night, and it seems at the end of the show someone kills the Espheni Queen and that causes all Espheni to die. So that's a pretty big plot point and it may very well be in this game. Not sure yet what kind of implications that would have, but it seemed interesting enough to share.

I bet it's the third-party's kill flavor, given they're most likely Dornia. IIRC it also kills humans? I forgot.

1) kind of inclined to believe Awaclus on their claim. Based on reference to my role mechanics, as well as if it was a time bomb effect or something - i don’t think Awaclus would of claimed.

2) it’s an rmm - but like if Ash posts Galz is IC... he is IC right?

3) no one really brought it up - but the no NK thing is weird. I was expecting multiple nks tbh.

1) reminds me of town!Awaclus from the previous RMM, 2) is a good point but lying here is bastard and 3) I didn't expect multiple kills night 1

Does someone who has flavor knowledge have any idea what having a headache might indicate?

Do you have it?

[2.71828.....]

Pubby was the most adamant late in the day that EFHW shouldn't be defaulted into dying, and tried to rally people away.

ADK is scum, which is significant. (I just feel it in my bones, also the off-wagon person I was most wary of pre-lynch. And I think off-wagon is the way to go today for obvious reasons.)

I could see scum hammering EFHW a lot more than I could see scum rallying under EFHW. Hence, scum!e (heh).

yeah, it would have been too easy for me to just not lynch and come back today with an excuse for why I didn't hammer as promised.  Trying to paint a D1 hammer on scum as scummy is a stretch.  D1 scum lynches are SUPER bad for the scum team.

[2.71828.....]

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

MiX (1): shraeye
EFHW (9): Galzria, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus, joth, Space, Glooble, MiX, 2.7
Galzria (1) EFHW
WCD (1): pubby
joth (3): ADK, faust, Uncle
faust (1): PPS

Not Voting (0):

With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ended at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

Back to my Datswan vote, I forgot that they were actually on wagon until Datswan mentioned it in response to my post.   Makes their EoD post much less scummy.

unvote

for now

[MiX]

I don't know if someone already did this, but let's break some of these premises.

I feel like I'm right about 11 kids = 11 players. See Ash's latest post, and the post when EFHW died. Dan Weaver is a major plot character - why would be left out of the game unless there are 11 kids filling the roster?

Most mods randomize flavor names: would you say the same if EFHW had a skitter as a fakeclaim? Also, given how many characters there are it would be awful to just make everyone into a kid.

11 Harnessed Kids
3 Espheni Scum (Queen, Scorch [EFHW], The Monk)
1 Skitter (Red Eye [Glooble])
1 Ally (me)

You expect only 1 Ally??? Then why did you reveal that? I do like how the harnessed kids' amount match EXACTLY what I would expect from this theory, but still, see what I said above.

If there are 2 skitters, then that means there are only 2 scum. But with 16 players? To me it seems more likely that there's 1 skitter and 3 scum. And if there's only 1 skitter, MiX has to go.

vote: MiX

If the ENTIRE TOWN is harnessed kids there is simply no way I would claim anything else other than "kid". Same for (almost) every scum.

PPE 2: I'm just assuming Uncle's thinking the safest placement for scum is to not be on the wagon but also be on the wagon, which hammering accomplishes.

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

[2.71828.....]

PPE 2: I'm just assuming Uncle's thinking the safest placement for scum is to not be on the wagon but also be on the wagon, which hammering accomplishes.

Yeah, still don't buy that scum comes in a minute before deadline to lynch their partner

[MiX]

PPE 2: I'm just assuming Uncle's thinking the safest placement for scum is to not be on the wagon but also be on the wagon, which hammering accomplishes.

Yeah, still don't buy that scum comes in a minute before deadline to lynch their partner

They can. I still think you're incredibly towny for it, but they can.

[MiX]

Okay, I just realized there's a very important part of the votecount I need to analyze, so while I do that

Vote: Eddie

Vote: Eddie

[faust]

Yes, all the way to "if when the night falls" part

Please be careful with quoting mod-provided info, I don't want you modkilled. This one's probably fine because it's in the OP.

[2.71828.....]

I feel like I'm right about 11 kids = 11 players. See Ash's latest post, and the post when EFHW died. Dan Weaver is a major plot character - why would be left out of the game unless there are 11 kids filling the roster?
 
See my first post:

Just a thought, probably important: The OP mentioned 11 harnessed kids in a game of 16. Two have claimed rebel skitter, which wouldn't be harnessed according to wiki flavor. That leaves 3 non-harnessed roles left, presumably all Espheni scum?

Considering what I know from my QT, the math doesn't add up.

I'm not joking around here. I think this is a huge lead.

Expected game setup:

11 Harnessed Kids
3 Espheni Scum (Queen, Scorch [EFHW], The Monk)
1 Skitter (Red Eye [Glooble])
1 Ally (me)

If there are 2 skitters, then that means there are only 2 scum. But with 16 players? To me it seems more likely that there's 1 skitter and 3 scum. And if there's only 1 skitter, MiX has to go.

vote: MiX

I think pubby's assessment of the setup is likely incorrectly and since it seems to be driving his vote on MiX I totally disagree with his vote

[faust]

Does someone who has flavor knowledge have any idea what having a headache might indicate?

Do you have it?

Asking for a friend.

[MiX]

Yes, all the way to "if when the night falls" part

Please be careful with quoting mod-provided info, I don't want you modkilled. This one's probably fine because it's in the OP.

I double-checked that before posting it, don't worry.

Does someone who has flavor knowledge have any idea what having a headache might indicate?

Do you have it?

Asking for a friend.

I bet it's a sign they're harnessed and probably a side effect of something happening to all overlords. At least that's what I learned from typing "headache" in the wiki...

Why did we kill the one person who knew the flavor?

[MiX]

Yes, all the way to "if when the night falls" part

Please be careful with quoting mod-provided info, I don't want you modkilled. This one's probably fine because it's in the OP.

I double-checked that before posting it, don't worry.

Hey, townslip! Plz don't modkill me ash.

[pubby]

I suppose my wild setup theory will be proven correct/incorrect when someone town dies and we look at what that does to the kid count.

unvote

@MiX: if you ignore the 11 kid number, I would expect the game to have multiple allies and multiple non-kid characters. But I would also expect the game to have kid players  - they're a big part of the show!

Part of my theory is based on the idea that it would be weird to have both player-kids and non-player-kids. Maybe that's bad logic.

[Uncleeurope]

E is my pick for “if someone on wagon is scum who is it?”

I am treating all of the wagon crew as town for today though, just to simplify things.

I am curious who other people would choose out of the on wagon crew, if anyone.

[MiX]

I suppose my wild setup theory will be proven correct/incorrect when someone town dies and we look at what that does to the kid count.

unvote

@MiX: if you ignore the 11 kid number, I would expect the game to have multiple allies and multiple non-kid characters. But I would also expect the game to have kid players  - they're a big part of the show!

Part of my theory is based on the idea that it would be weird to have both player-kids and non-player-kids. Maybe that's bad logic.

They're already a mod mechanic, I don't think they're flavor names. At least I hope so, taking a bit of Didds' concern here.

E is my pick for “if someone on wagon is scum who is it?”

I am treating all of the wagon crew as town for today though, just to simplify things.

I am curious who other people would choose out of the on wagon crew, if anyone.

I don't think everyone in the wagon is town. If I had to single out someone from it thats scummy, it would be Didds or Awaclus. And you, given your "intent to hammer".

[Uncleeurope]

Fantastic, it was all I ever dreamed of to be included in “the wagon crowd.”

Surely they won’t suspect me, now.

[Glooble]

Glooble - if Scum bussed EFHW, who is it and why?

I’m still more or less V/LA but I hate not answering direct questions so real quick- maybe WCD? This wagon was so tenuous it’s hard to see scum getting on it at the end, and Didds is the scummiest person on it at the beginning.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning and happy weekend, friends

EFHW is a baddy and Galz is town! That’s fabulous! I hate that the thread is locked immediately after the flip so the dances of celebration are never shared. Cha cha cha!

I think looking off wagon simplifies things for sure. ADK and Joth were both on early but ended up off, so they are pretty high on my list for being on then off. I’m still working on rereading the never-on folks

People who know the flavor....the kid that didn’t die but ran away. His harness is left behind. Is that significant? Can a harness be escaped?

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning and happy weekend, friends

EFHW is a baddy and Galz is town! That’s fabulous! I hate that the thread is locked immediately after the flip so the dances of celebration are never shared. Cha cha cha!

I think looking off wagon simplifies things for sure. ADK and Joth were both on early but ended up off, so they are pretty high on my list for being on then off. I’m still working on rereading the never-on folks

People who know the flavor....the kid that didn’t die but ran away. His harness is left behind. Is that significant? Can a harness be escaped?

Scratch that, Joth ended up on. It’s early...I haven’t had coffee

[Glooble]

I will say one more thing before I leave- the “Faust’s master plan” scenario is looking a lot more plausible to me today.

[WestCoastDidds]

Glooble - if Scum bussed EFHW, who is it and why?

I’m still more or less V/LA but I hate not answering direct questions so real quick- maybe WCD? This wagon was so tenuous it’s hard to see scum getting on it at the end, and Didds is the scummiest person on it at the beginning.

That would take nerves of steel from me! There were so many options to switch, especially when faust was pushing not-EFHW. I’m pretty sure that if I knew EFHW was my partner, I’d have been anywhere but there. I’m not a risky person, and usually choose the safe play. A bus like that...when the lynch wasn’t assured would be super risky. When I went to bed before the deadline I worried about lynching someone VLA, but not moving my vote at that point made the wagon more stable. So, however scummy you may have thought I was at the beginning, there isn’t a scum narrative that makes sense for me staying on and ensuring EFHW was lynched when there were lots of town alternatives the day before the lynch.

[faust]

I will say one more thing before I leave- the “Faust’s master plan” scenario is looking a lot more plausible to me today.

faust's master plan revealed:

1. Bus a partner hard
2. Get cold feet
3. Look scummy leaving the wagon
4.
5. Profit

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: faust seems pretty obvious

Does it? Why?

Maybe I'm being lazy, I'll have to go back and look at how and when you left the EFHW wagon.

Off wagon, faust and eddie seem the scummiest to me, although they're probably not both scum.

On wagon the votes leading up to the hammer don't strike me as scummy, as all of those people could have reasonably put their vote somewhere else. There might be scum in the early voters, who felt they couldn't jump off without looking suspicious. Didds does seem like the best bet there

[A Drowned Kernel]

I will say one more thing before I leave- the “Faust’s master plan” scenario is looking a lot more plausible to me today.

faust's master plan revealed:

1. Bus a partner hard
2. Get cold feet
3. Look scummy leaving the wagon
4.
5. Profit

I think that the argument is not that you "got cold feet" but that the plan was to start a wagon on a partner then defuse it, since early wagons rarely end up being the day's actual lynch.

Looking at the breakdown of events I'm actually starting to find it less plausible, though.

vote: eddie for now

[Uncleeurope]

Y’all are goofballs.

I trust WCD substantially more, now.

[Uncleeurope]

Read ADK’s posts, people. Is it just me that sees scumminess there?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.3:

faust (1): joth
ADK (1): Uncle
Uncle (3): faust, MiX, ADK

Not Voting (10): Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, Space, Glooble, shraeye, 2.7, pubby

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[WestCoastDidds]

Rereading....for now,

Vote: ADK

[MiX]

That would take nerves of steel from me! There were so many options to switch, especially when faust was pushing not-EFHW. I’m pretty sure that if I knew EFHW was my partner, I’d have been anywhere but there. I’m not a risky person, and usually choose the safe play. A bus like that...when the lynch wasn’t assured would be super risky. When I went to bed before the deadline I worried about lynching someone VLA, but not moving my vote at that point made the wagon more stable. So, however scummy you may have thought I was at the beginning, there isn’t a scum narrative that makes sense for me staying on and ensuring EFHW was lynched when there were lots of town alternatives the day before the lynch.

Bolding mine. Traitor slip? Anything's possible with Didds.

So I did some minor VCAs and obviously Galzria is IC even without Awaclus' power which makes me want to lynch him, so...yeah. I don't have anything else now, just some suspicion on Uncle and Didds. I think I would lynch between these 3. And for everyone thinking ADK's scum: he cannot have a fakeclaim with a flavor number of 6 as scum. Let's just leave it at that. Plus he's towny.

[Uncleeurope]

Fair point about the fake claim number, I had forgotten about that.

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, I am going to do a 180 on this and switch to being more suspicious of other people. Lemme go look for other people to be suspicious of.

Possible candidates include Shraeye and PPS.

[Swowl]

With this post i bring you phone posted VCA theory of day 1. Sorry I’m advance.

1) this was the VC 2.5 hours to DL.

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (4): EFHW, Glooble, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WCD (1): Pubby

- i chose this VC bc i think it represents a valuable point at which our known IC had the viable counter wagon running, and it is before the Joth wagon starts to get big.
- At this point we want to be looking for people bailing on the EFHW wagon, or people off wagon trying to vamp one of the other wagons. Obviously, Galz is the only for sure town wagon, but Amy attempts to stall a skum wagon should raise eyebrows (even if the stall is done with Joth)

2) Here are the players who were on the EFHW wagon, and ended up on the EFHW Wagon:

 Awaclus:
- joins EFHW wagon putting them at L1. Stays on the wagon.
- again, given potential alternatives, i don’t think Awaclus!EFHW is likely.

Swan:
- my argument for my towniness is the same as awa pretty much. I could of gone some where else, but i went EFHW and stayed there.

Joth:
- could of chosen Galz or EFHW. We know Galz is town. We know efhw is skum.
- so if Joth is skum, again, not with EFHW. And i think they town.

Galz:
- town

WCD:
- only players  that had more chances to jump off the EFHW wagon we’re Galz and Faust... but she chose to stay instead of promoting any of the counter options.

*it may sound naive, but i think given the potential switches that were made available to these players... i think it is possible all of the above 5 players are town.*


3)The players that switched over to the EFHW wagon, and ended there were...

Space:
- on Galz for a while. Come back final minutes to move to EFHW.
- voting EFHW makes it Joth(4) vs EFHW(6).
- no way they do this and are buddies with EFHW.

Glooble:
- glooble was sitting on Galz, WITH EFHW...
- they move to EFHW over Joth making it 7-4 i believe
- again, just makes no sense as partner of EFHW.

E:
- no one comes in and hammers their buddy like that, that close to DL when there is the chance that no lynch happens.

MiX:
- leaves EFHW for Galz, then moves to Joth.
- eventually, with 15m left, comes back to EFHW while making a pretty decent Joth case.
- so at the minimum, if MiX is skum, it sure as hell ain’t with EFHW (or most likely Joth).

*Summary of that group of players - not only did some of them move off of the town Galz wagon to the skum EFHW wagon, but most of them moved off of it and had Joth as a viable move instead... so yeah like pretty damn towny there*



Now obviously adding those two groups up and coming up with like no solid skum reads kind of is weird. Makes me think 2 things.

1) probz more than 1 skum team.
2) makes me want to look at people that were not on the EFHW wagon. However, people who were off wagon, if skum Mates with EFHW, would of gone for Galz or Joth as defense. So by sitting idle, they were just sealing the fate of their buddy.
3) then there is the Joth wagon. If they were there before EFHW wagon climbed they could confidently continue to push their Joth case without being looked at for switching (adk). They could come up with a reason to bail on the EFHW when it gets big (Faust). Or they could choose someone that is not EFHW when they move their vote (Eddie).


Ok like i said - all from phone so I’m sorry about format. But essentially i think [faust,Eddie, adk] is a good place to focus.

I need to do a read from the Galz is IC perspective and overlay those VCAs, but again... from phone so gonna take a day or so.

vote: ADK

[faust]

1) probz more than 1 skum team.

Seems quite improbable given that there was no nightkill.

[faust]

Awaclus: Could the use of your power have resulted in you yourself being IC'd?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus: Could the use of your power have resulted in you yourself being IC'd?

No.

[MiX]

Awaclus: Could the use of your power have resulted in you yourself being IC'd?

No.

Could it IC someone who dies N1?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus: Could the use of your power have resulted in you yourself being IC'd?

No.

Could it IC someone who dies N1?

No.

[pubby]

Vote: faust

I don't agree with the eddie votes.

[MiX]

Vote: faust

I don't agree with the eddie votes.

Why?

[SpaceAnemone]

Got a bit behind earlier today, but I'm all caught up now.

I've done a bit of wagon-gazing, looking at EFHW in particular.

In addition to stating that she thought MiX was town in D1, she also rather conspicuously didn't join his wagon even when he was the main alternative to her own lynch. At #612, PPS switched from MiX to EFHW, taking MiX from 4 to 3 votes, and EFHW from 3 to 4. MiX himself was on the EFHW wagon, so even if she's previously stated (pretty mildly) that she thought he was town, that should have been enough to justify joining his wagon, but instead she went for Galz, who at that point had no votes.

MiX also conspicuously wavered from the EFHW wagon after it had grown pretty big: he jumps to GalZ (equalizing the wagons at 5 apiece) at #878, then onto Joth (which he seemed to have been setting up previously, via a one-post vote for EFHW at #884. He only came back to EFHW after I and then Glooble has also moved there, putting himself in the L-1 position, when he'd clearly been preparing a case on Joth in the meantime, because his EFHW vote was a PPE directly in response to our two votes, i.e. when the EFHW lynch already looked like a really strong possibility.

Anyway, it's making me quite suspicious of MiX all over again. It's also very convenient how his IC-ing plan just happened to fail already...

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Anyway, it's making me quite suspicious of MiX all over again. It's also very convenient how his IC-ing plan just happened to fail already...

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

To the rest, we lynched EFHW precisely because she didn't jump on my wagon, there's no way town!EFHW does a flip on me, so scum!EFHW can't do that to save herself. Instead she pushed Galzria. Also see my reactions to faust's derail, they're okay at first. Other than that, I sheeped faust on the original EFHW case way past his own vote, at most you can accuse me of taking advantage of the derail? Fine it's a good case, I would need to analyze my own posts to prove otherwise and self-analysis never works.

[MiX]

Looking back, my joth case is a big pile of nothing if I knew EFHW would flip scum, why even make it? It's not going to be used at all, any counterwagons to scum are towny. Also I always voted and pushed to vote EFHW untill deadline, why would I wait that long to create a counterwagon?

[SpaceAnemone]

Let's handle the EFHW-MiX thing first:

To the rest, we lynched EFHW precisely because she didn't jump on my wagon, there's no way town!EFHW does a flip on me, so scum!EFHW can't do that to save herself. Instead she pushed Galzria. Also see my reactions to faust's derail, they're okay at first. Other than that, I sheeped faust on the original EFHW case way past his own vote, at most you can accuse me of taking advantage of the derail? Fine it's a good case, I would need to analyze my own posts to prove otherwise and self-analysis never works.

That doesn't quite address my point. EFHW was in the lynch pool because we hypothesized that there would be at least one off-wagon scum regardless of your alignment. However, she's even less likely to have voted you if you're scum than if you're town, so if anything, it's more incriminating, not less.

As for staying on her wagon, yes, I think you did try to look townie in case she was lynched, but also to derail it when it looked like there was a good chance to do so. I think it's a tough balancing act to play as scum.

In particular, you did jump earlier (#830), and explicitly pointed out when you moved the first time that "everyone's derailing the EFHW wagon": i.e. "blame everyone, it's not my fault I have to move". The fact you were pushing a case on Joth at the end shows that you were still trying to get a switch to him right up to the point where two consecutive EFHW votes made that wagon look inevitable. And now looking at your most recent post:

Looking back, my joth case is a big pile of nothing if I knew EFHW would flip scum, why even make it? It's not going to be used at all, any counterwagons to scum are towny. Also I always voted and pushed to vote EFHW untill deadline, why would I wait that long to create a counterwagon?

This post makes zero sense to me. Like, if you're scum with EFHW, it makes perfect sense to make your Joth case in an effort to push his wagon over your buddy's wagon especially when waverers like me were both online and showing interest on possibly voting Joth over EFHW. Why are you arguing that the case is useless?

On town's part, there was a lot of luck involved in getting the EFHW lynch through. It was partly based on the fact that those of us based in Europe (you, me, faust, e) were the ones more able to move and were mostly off-wagon in the half hour before deadline, giving more capacity to pull votes to EFHW than to anyone else. The fact that Glooble came along (at what must have been super-early o'clock in his timezone) and was not inclined to vote for his twin was what really swung it. If Glooble's vote hadn't been there, I think I would probably have gone to Joth as the one who looked most likely to go through, given that both you and faust were supporting a not-EFHW lynch.

I also find it interesting that you don't seem to have made any reference to your Joth suspicions on D2, even though there was no real logic in D1 to say EFHW and Joth were an either-or thing.

[SpaceAnemone]

There' also this:

Anyway, it's making me quite suspicious of MiX all over again. It's also very convenient how his IC-ing plan just happened to fail already...

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

While I doubt scum intended for EFHW's death D1, it's possible they knew their (presumed!) NK was likely not to go through on N1. This means that maybe scum!you could already have been planning that as an excuse when you made the IC claim.

[Uncleeurope]

An off-wagon kill is he play here, though. No?

Especially if one considers NK options. I would think MiX would be near the top of the list if he was indeed town. And not having a kill opens up doctor possibilities. And a doctor would be incentivized to target MiX based on his claim over other people. I feel like MiX is a bad call. But I could be wrong here.

[MiX]

There' also this:

Anyway, it's making me quite suspicious of MiX all over again. It's also very convenient how his IC-ing plan just happened to fail already...

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

While I doubt scum intended for EFHW's death D1, it's possible they knew their (presumed!) NK was likely not to go through on N1. This means that maybe scum!you could already have been planning that as an excuse when you made the IC claim.

But if my "IC plan" is all lies, why would I plan ahead a made-up fail???

Also look at the timestamp of my big joth case: less than an hour before deadline. It's useless.

[SpaceAnemone]

An off-wagon kill is he play here, though. No?

I don't see why that would need to be the case. There are nine alive on-wagon people, and six alive off-wagon people. However, with Galz being on-wagon and IC, and a bunch of us on-wagon also knowing ourselves to be town gives some of us PoE that's almost equivalent on-wagon and off-wagon (7 on vs 6 off). I'm happy enough looking at who I'm actually suspicious of in these circumstances.

Especially if one considers NK options. I would think MiX would be near the top of the list if he was indeed town. And not having a kill opens up doctor possibilities. And a doctor would be incentivized to target MiX based on his claim over other people. I feel like MiX is a bad call. But I could be wrong here.

Sure, the lack of NK could be due to doctoring, commuting, bulletproof townies, redirecting onto bulletproof players, weird kill restrictions, and a host of other things. We're playing in something that's supposed to be a complicated RMM setup. And even if we have a doctor, I don't think that MiX is the obvious choice for every player.. a bunch of us were willing to give him a D1 pass, but not to embrace him as a proto-IC without evidence.

[SpaceAnemone]

But if my "IC plan" is all lies, why would I plan ahead a made-up fail???

Because it got you out of getting lynched D1! You needed something to claim that wasn't immediately verifiable, and claiming you can eventually make yourself IC in some completely-undefined way fits the bill. It fits it especially well if you know you'll have wiggle room later to say something along the lines of "well I thought I could make myself IC, but the plan isn't working because of X".

Also look at the timestamp of my big joth case: less than an hour before deadline. It's useless.

Then why did you make your Joth case in the first place? The question here is not "was the case on Joth useful?". The question is, "given that you were definitely pushing a case on Joth, what do we think your intention in making it was?".

I still assert that you wanted to drive enough people to Joth that EFHW's lynch didn't go through, especially since the EoD timing was such that the players available close to deadline were restricted, and there was a very real chance that no wagon got quite enough votes to tip it over the edge. I was close to going to Joth over EFHW, and I'd said as much in-thread. It's no stretch of the imagination at all to think that maybe all it would have taken to stall the EFHW lynch was a little more support for Joth.

[Awaclus]

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

So you are saying that as soon as town dies, you will be an IC?

[pingpongsam]

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

So you are saying that as soon as town dies, you will be an IC?

 It only on D3?

BTW apologies for perceived absence. Start of Day wasn’t discover3 until late last night and I posted but never noticed the PPE warning and then my mobile browser lost the post contents overnight while I slept and I woke up this morning to a blank message and a PPE warning. So, yeah, I don’t know what I meant to say because it was late.

[MiX]

The point of the joth case was for this day, but we got scum so it's pointless. Well, not pointless, but not for today.

In my defense, it would work much better if literally anything bad (like town dying) had happened this game.

So you are saying that as soon as town dies, you will be an IC?

Not instantly, but it helps.

[Awaclus]

Not instantly, but it helps.

Does it have to be a NK or does a lynch work too?

[MiX]

Not instantly, but it helps.

Does it have to be a NK or does a lynch work too?

Both help.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.4:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): Uncle, WCD, Datswan
Uncle (3): faust, MiX, ADK
MiX (1): Space

Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Galzria, PPS, Glooble, shraeye, 2.7

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[pubby]

Phone posting.

A strategy for the MiX  conundrum:
1) before glooble claims, mix can claim his role name and flavor number. Glooble can then assert if mix seems honest. Note that this is safe - glooble claiming would reveal mix's role name by Poe. The flavor numbers should be the same.
2) keep mix alive another night. If anyone thinks they prevented nk on mix yesterday, do it again tonight.

[MiX]

Phone posting.

A strategy for the MiX  conundrum:
1) before glooble claims, mix can claim his role name and flavor number. Glooble can then assert if mix seems honest. Note that this is safe - glooble claiming would reveal mix's role name by Poe. The flavor numbers should be the same.
2) keep mix alive another night. If anyone thinks they prevented nk on mix yesterday, do it again tonight.

I already claimed my number: it's 5

Also 2) is terrible, everyone should be unpredictable.

[pubby]

Oh I'm dumb I forgot about that!  I want Glooble to verify if his number then.

Also 2) is terrible, everyone should be unpredictable.

I agree normally, but not tonight. Even if scum ignores you and kills elsewhere, isn't that good for the self-proclaimed best town role in the game that can IC day 3?

[Galzria]

Sorry for the LA: Weekends are always a bit crazy for me.

[MiX]

Oh I'm dumb I forgot about that!  I want Glooble to verify if his number then.

Also 2) is terrible, everyone should be unpredictable.

I agree normally, but not tonight. Even if scum ignores you and kills elsewhere, isn't that good for the self-proclaimed best town role in the game that can IC day 3?

There's a literal IC walking around...

[Awaclus]

There's a literal IC walking around...

So in other words, you were not town's strongest PR?

[MiX]

There's a literal IC walking around...

So in other words, you were not town's strongest PR?

There's 2 great targets, so always picking 1 is bad.

[jotheonah]

So when I checked in at start of day I just skimmed the day start post to see who died. Saw Galz’s name in green, figured he was the NK. So I’m glad I was wrong, but boy did it give me a heart attack when I saw him post.

[Galzria]

Glooble, please claim name & number.

[jotheonah]

I don’t think I’ll have time to contribute much until tomorrow. I did a quick read of what I missed but didn’t really process it all. Currently scumreading Space, faust, and e FWIW.

[pubby]

Glooble, please claim name & number.

MiX should claim his name first, no?

[Galzria]

Glooble, please claim name & number.

MiX should claim his name first, no?

No.

[pubby]

Vote: faust

I don't agree with the eddie votes.

Why?

I just don't like how faust jumped off the EFHW wagon yesterday and then tried hard to steer people away. You can say scum wouldn't react that brash, but maybe scum has to if the accused is VLA and can't speak up for themselves.

And whoops I just re-read Eddie and I actually think he's an OK vote. I didn't like faust's case on him yesterday, but it makes more sense today.

Glooble, please claim name & number.

MiX should claim his name first, no?

No.

Whichever of the two you think is more scummy should claim first. Do you think Glooble is the scummier one here? The other will get revealed immediately from PoE anyway.

[Galzria]

Vote: faust

I don't agree with the eddie votes.

Why?

I just don't like how faust jumped off the EFHW wagon yesterday and then tried hard to steer people away. You can say scum wouldn't react that brash, but maybe scum has to if the accused is VLA and can't speak up for themselves.

And whoops I just re-read Eddie and I actually think he's an OK vote. I didn't like faust's case on him yesterday, but it makes more sense today.

Glooble, please claim name & number.

MiX should claim his name first, no?

No.

Whichever of the two you think is more scummy should claim first. Do you think Glooble is the scummier one here? The other will get revealed immediately from PoE anyway.

It’s not an arbitrary choice. Glooble should claim name & number.

[Glooble]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

[Galzria]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

MiX, thoughts & feelings?

[Galzria]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Do you believe that you and MiX are both town?

[MiX]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

[Galzria]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Does any part of your role reference Harnessed Children?

[Galzria]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

[MiX]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

Start of night.

[Glooble]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Do you believe that you and MiX are both town?

I don’t know. I could see either way. Nothing in my role PM suggests the existence of a second Skitter, nor does it make it seem particularly unlikely. Space’s arguments for scum!MiX are making a certain amount of sense to me.

[Galzria]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

Start of night.

Do you believe that both you & Glooble are Town?

[MiX]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

Start of night.

Do you believe that both you & Glooble are Town?

Yes.

[pubby]

Wait, you got one of EFHW's powers?

Well why can't you reveal it? :S Surely scum knows or has a good idea of what ability you have now. Shouldn't town know too?

[MiX]

Wait, you got one of EFHW's powers?

Well why can't you reveal it? :S Surely scum knows or has a good idea of what ability you have now. Shouldn't town know too?

I only get one power, so if she had more scum wouldn't know which one I took.

[Galzria]

Wait, you got one of EFHW's powers?

Well why can't you reveal it? :S Surely scum knows or has a good idea of what ability you have now. Shouldn't town know too?

If EFHW had multiple powers, MiX only received one, which would mean scum is -somewhat- in the dark. Depending on the value of that power, then the choice to not reveal may make sense.

[pubby]

If there's any part of the ability that reveals scum's win-condition, or talks about harnessed kids, or headaches, or anything town could use, then I really hope that you tell us.

If it's just a roleblock or something standard then feel free to keep quiet.

[Galzria]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Does any part of your role reference Harnessed Children?

[MiX]

If there's any part of the ability that reveals scum's win-condition, or talks about harnessed kids, or headaches, or anything town could use, then I really hope that you tell us.

If it's just a roleblock or something standard then feel free to keep quiet.

If I had something more to claim, I would.

[SpaceAnemone]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Do you believe that you and MiX are both town?

I don’t know. I could see either way. Nothing in my role PM suggests the existence of a second Skitter, nor does it make it seem particularly unlikely. Space’s arguments for scum!MiX are making a certain amount of sense to me.

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

[SpaceAnemone]

Mix, if I'm getting this right, your plan to "IC" yourself was to wait till a townie died, inherit a part of their role, and then hope that they've secretly said something in-thread that is enough of a breadcrumb that you can use it to "prove" that you've got their role, yes? In spite of the fact that breadcrumbs are by definition subtle and vague, else they would get picked up by scum as indications of a person's PR.

Follow-up question: how can we be sure it's a town power to pick up bits of roles, and not a scum (mafia or third-party) power? That would be quite a critical part in the claiming of IC status, rather than just claiming that you have a particular role mechanism.

[pubby]

A flavor number of 5 would be perfect for 3rd party roles.

Just saying.

[SpaceAnemone]

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

Start of night.

Does it persist until replaced by another dead player's power? Or for a fixed length of time?

What would have happened if there had been a night kill? Would EFHW's power be have been replaced by the NK'd person's power at the start of D2?

[MiX]

Mix, if I'm getting this right, your plan to "IC" yourself was to wait till a townie died, inherit a part of their role, and then hope that they've secretly said something in-thread that is enough of a breadcrumb that you can use it to "prove" that you've got their role, yes? In spite of the fact that breadcrumbs are by definition subtle and vague, else they would get picked up by scum as indications of a person's PR.

Follow-up question: how can we be sure it's a town power to pick up bits of roles, and not a scum (mafia or third-party) power? That would be quite a critical part in the claiming of IC status, rather than just claiming that you have a particular role mechanism.

That, and I hoped to get a day power. What can I say, I like crazy plans with crazy roles.

I reeeeeeeally don't think scum would get back-up at all. Third-party, maybe, but I don't really care about that.

Paint Face has a very obvious role: I am a Back-Up, and that was part of my IC plan: getting to know the intricasies of dead townies roles(that hopefully by day 2 breadcrumbed something). I only get 1 role per player, and I don't think I should say which power I got from scum, so that's all I'll claim for now.

At exactly what point in time did you inherit the PR?

Start of night.

Does it persist until replaced by another dead player's power? Or for a fixed length of time?

What would have happened if there had been a night kill? Would EFHW's power be have been replaced by the NK'd person's power at the start of D2?

You would love to know this, wouldn't you.

[SpaceAnemone]

Does it persist until replaced by another dead player's power? Or for a fixed length of time?

What would have happened if there had been a night kill? Would EFHW's power be have been replaced by the NK'd person's power at the start of D2?

You would love to know this, wouldn't you.

Yes, because you've already implied that you expect to inherit multiple roles over the course of the game, unlike a typical UB. However, that means that with the typical expectation of one person dying at the end of each day, and another at the end of the night, you expect to gain two new powers per day-night cycle. Accumulating that over more than one cycle would seem excessively over-powered, unless there's a strong restriction on what you can use or how many times in total you can actually use a role. The most obvious way of capping it would be that each new power replaces the last... but that in itself would seem to incentivise you not to want the next lynch or NK to go through after inheriting a particularly nice power.

Anyway, this line of reasoning just seemed somewhat worth asking you about, given that we've just observed an expected kill not happening.

[Galzria]

MiX, if Glooble were third party, would you inherit his win con if he were to be killed?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.5:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): Uncle, WCD, Datswan
Uncle (3): faust, MiX, ADK
MiX (1): Space

Not Voting (6): Awaclus, Galzria, PPS, Glooble, shraeye, 2.7

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Glooble]

I’ll abide by the IC.

I am Red Eye. My number is 5.

Does any part of your role reference Harnessed Children?

No.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Am I wrong in thinking that this power makes a certain amount of sense for the ephensi queen? There seems to be stuff in the show about the ephensi assimilating other aliens and repurposing them

[faust]

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

[2.71828.....]

With this post i bring you phone posted VCA theory of day 1. Sorry I’m advance.

1) this was the VC 2.5 hours to DL.

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (4): EFHW, Glooble, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WCD (1): Pubby

- i chose this VC bc i think it represents a valuable point at which our known IC had the viable counter wagon running, and it is before the Joth wagon starts to get big.
- At this point we want to be looking for people bailing on the EFHW wagon, or people off wagon trying to vamp one of the other wagons. Obviously, Galz is the only for sure town wagon, but Amy attempts to stall a skum wagon should raise eyebrows (even if the stall is done with Joth)

2) Here are the players who were on the EFHW wagon, and ended up on the EFHW Wagon:

 Awaclus:
- joins EFHW wagon putting them at L1. Stays on the wagon.
- again, given potential alternatives, i don’t think Awaclus!EFHW is likely.

Swan:
- my argument for my towniness is the same as awa pretty much. I could of gone some where else, but i went EFHW and stayed there.

Joth:
- could of chosen Galz or EFHW. We know Galz is town. We know efhw is skum.
- so if Joth is skum, again, not with EFHW. And i think they town.

Galz:
- town

WCD:
- only players  that had more chances to jump off the EFHW wagon we’re Galz and Faust... but she chose to stay instead of promoting any of the counter options.

*it may sound naive, but i think given the potential switches that were made available to these players... i think it is possible all of the above 5 players are town.*


3)The players that switched over to the EFHW wagon, and ended there were...

Space:
- on Galz for a while. Come back final minutes to move to EFHW.
- voting EFHW makes it Joth(4) vs EFHW(6).
- no way they do this and are buddies with EFHW.

Glooble:
- glooble was sitting on Galz, WITH EFHW...
- they move to EFHW over Joth making it 7-4 i believe
- again, just makes no sense as partner of EFHW.

E:
- no one comes in and hammers their buddy like that, that close to DL when there is the chance that no lynch happens.

MiX:
- leaves EFHW for Galz, then moves to Joth.
- eventually, with 15m left, comes back to EFHW while making a pretty decent Joth case.
- so at the minimum, if MiX is skum, it sure as hell ain’t with EFHW (or most likely Joth).

*Summary of that group of players - not only did some of them move off of the town Galz wagon to the skum EFHW wagon, but most of them moved off of it and had Joth as a viable move instead... so yeah like pretty damn towny there*



Now obviously adding those two groups up and coming up with like no solid skum reads kind of is weird. Makes me think 2 things.

1) probz more than 1 skum team.
2) makes me want to look at people that were not on the EFHW wagon. However, people who were off wagon, if skum Mates with EFHW, would of gone for Galz or Joth as defense. So by sitting idle, they were just sealing the fate of their buddy.
3) then there is the Joth wagon. If they were there before EFHW wagon climbed they could confidently continue to push their Joth case without being looked at for switching (adk). They could come up with a reason to bail on the EFHW when it gets big (Faust). Or they could choose someone that is not EFHW when they move their vote (Eddie).


Ok like i said - all from phone so I’m sorry about format. But essentially i think [faust,Eddie, adk] is a good place to focus.

I need to do a read from the Galz is IC perspective and overlay those VCAs, but again... from phone so gonna take a day or so.

vote: ADK

This is a good post and I recommend everyone actually read it even though it is long. (Not that anyone would ever just skim the thread without thoroughly reading)

[2.71828.....]

An off-wagon kill is he play here, though. No?

Especially if one considers NK options. I would think MiX would be near the top of the list if he was indeed town. And not having a kill opens up doctor possibilities. And a doctor would be incentivized to target MiX based on his claim over other people. I feel like MiX is a bad call. But I could be wrong here.

I agree with lynching off wagon

[2.71828.....]

Which is why I don't understand all the MiX talk again.

[Uncleeurope]

It’s interesting that Swowl’s conclusion is the entirety of the Joth wagon.

How many baddies do people think chilled there, end of day?


Also, separate point: Are we allowed to know the alignment score of Colonel Dan Weaver?

[faust]

This is a good post and I recommend everyone actually read it even though it is long. (Not that anyone would ever just skim the thread without thoroughly reading)

I don't think we should flat out assume people are scum because they voted EFHW, as happened here a lot of the time. In large games it is easier to stomach the loss of one scum, since there are probably like 4 total, you have some backup and you need to play for the long game, so getting extra towncred is good. Some more specific disagreements.

- Awaclus joined the wagon at L-1 and then stayed there. I could easily see scum!Awaclus doing this, due to his playstyle it's not like him switching votes will convince others to do so, so he couldn't have made the Galzria wagon succeed.
- joth's behaviour towards the EFHW wagon specifically doesn't make a lot of sense; he advocated no lynch for a while, voted for me, and then came back to voting EFHW? If no lynch is an acceptable option - why come back to a lynch you don't feel great about?
- Space only pivoted to EFHW only when it was clear that the Galzria wagon wouldn't succeed, they said so themselves. The EFHW wagon was going to go through and it was better for them to be seen on it.
- I don't think that e's hammer is towny at all. Him not showing up would have tied the two of them together, and e was already under suspicion, so that's not a situation scum wants to find themselves in.

[MiX]

- Space only pivoted to EFHW only when it was clear that the Galzria wagon wouldn't succeed, they said so themselves. The EFHW wagon was going to go through and it was better for them to be seen on it.

If it weren't for Space, EFHW wouldn't be lynched (I would've stayed on joth), so I think scum just takes the no lynch.

- I don't think that e's hammer is towny at all. Him not showing up would have tied the two of them together, and e was already under suspicion, so that's not a situation scum wants to find themselves in.

How could it tie him if he didn't show up?

[MiX]

MiX, if Glooble were third party, would you inherit his win con if he were to be killed?

I don't inherit win cons. Thank god.

[faust]

- Space only pivoted to EFHW only when it was clear that the Galzria wagon wouldn't succeed, they said so themselves. The EFHW wagon was going to go through and it was better for them to be seen on it.

If it weren't for Space, EFHW wouldn't be lynched (I would've stayed on joth), so I think scum just takes the no lynch.

Space could not have known at the time they were voting that their vote would make or break the EFHW lynch (and it didn't if we believe that Eddie was ready to vote short before the deadline).

- I don't think that e's hammer is towny at all. Him not showing up would have tied the two of them together, and e was already under suspicion, so that's not a situation scum wants to find themselves in.

How could it tie him if he didn't show up?

Because he would have prevented the lynch, and he specifically said he'd be around to vote short before the deadline.

[faust]

I think WCD deserves a bit more attention, but not today.

I mean, why not today? We still have time. And lots of people, including myself, scumread WCD.

vote: WCD

I have to say this post is pretty dang townie. pubby is on the Galzria wagon, which had just pulled even with EFHW, and at that point he decides to leave it for... someone who has absolutely no votes on them. It doesn't make any sense as a partner play.

[faust]

The Galzria wagon deserves some inspection anyway. This is where it is at peak:

Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie

DatSwan has been making a case that people on the joth wagon are scummy. What about people on this wagon? What about the fact that both me and ADK refused to join it even though it was the main alternative at the time? The only person to push both alternatives to EFHW was Eddie.

[2.71828.....]

The Galzria wagon deserves some inspection anyway. This is where it is at peak:

Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie

DatSwan has been making a case that people on the joth wagon are scummy. What about people on this wagon? What about the fact that both me and ADK refused to join it even though it was the main alternative at the time? The only person to push both alternatives to EFHW was Eddie.

I agree that Eddie is the best vote strictly on wagon analysis. I am starting to feel like faust is scum based on his play.

That being said, I think Eddie is the better lynch today, and if he flips scum then that goes quite a way to clearing faust.

Vote: Eddie

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.6:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): Uncle, WCD, Datswan
Uncle (4): faust, MiX, ADK, 2.7
MiX (1): Space

Not Voting (5): Awaclus, Galzria, PPS, Glooble, shraeye

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[ashersky]

Are we allowed to know the alignment score of Colonel Dan Weaver?

No information regarding dead players is provided beyond the flip.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Eddie

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.7:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): Uncle, WCD, Datswan
Uncle (5): faust, MiX, ADK, 2.7, Awaclus
MiX (1): Space

Not Voting (4): Galzria, PPS, Glooble, shraeye

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, my voting pattern is scummy beyond words. It makes me look clumsy, and extremely optimistic as a scum player.

That being said, e just set up a backup plan for after I flip town regarding Faust. Although he said it in a backwards way. Me being scum clears Faust, hmm? Well what does that mean if I flip town? Do you hold similar concerns for ADK?

Speaking of ADK, how likely do we think a town member would come out with a 6 flavor score early game unprompted? I get the feeling it is so scummy it’s towny that it’s scummy again. Town has little to gain from claiming that and would probably hesitate in favor of seeing what town thinks about the idea. That being said I am uncertain and it definitely proves a roadblock in my read.

It feels off, though. And ADK did blurt out their role info during unfortunate events as town, so...

ADK, E, Faust, Shraeye, PPS, Uncle (fine), Pubby

That’s the pool of people we should realistically lynch in. I would throw space in at this point for funnies, but we can worry about that another day.

I can easily cut myself and will be fine with ignoring Pubby today, which leaves:

ADK, E, Faust, Shraeye, PPS, Uncle, Pubby

Because of wagon analysis I think it’s reasonable to assume that there was a baddie on the Joth wagon (yes, the wagon that included me) which makes me extra suspicious of ADK/Faust. That being said, I think it is also fair to assume there is a baddie in the floaters: Pubby/Shraeye/PPS/e



I actually think it much more likely that there are two baddies in those four much more than there are two in the Joth wagon (an assertion made easier by my presence on it).

I think that e is slimy and the most likely scum on the lynch wagon.

I think PPS is being a background weevil. Although no idea how they play.

I think Shraeye is town which makes me think he is bad. (But not really)

I want to think Faust is town but his case on me makes it hard.

I think ADK is scummy based on posts.

I think I want E/ADK to die the most. Make of that what you will.

Most importantly, I will vote anybody over myself. [Insert PubbyGlasses Here]

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Eddie

This is why I don’t like wagon analysis.

Does anyone have reasons they think I’m bad other than wagons?

I’m trying my best here, people.

I don’t know what you want from me.

[faust]

Does anyone have reasons they think I’m bad other than wagons?

Do you have reasons why we should think you're good?

[Uncleeurope]

I also think I would play better than this as scum.

[faust]

I also think I would play better than this as scum.

Well you had just subbed in, so I am cutting you some slack here

[faust]

Because of wagon analysis I think it’s reasonable to assume that there was a baddie on the Joth wagon

What does this mean?

[Uncleeurope]

Does anyone have reasons they think I’m bad other than wagons?

Do you have reasons why we should think you're good?

Nope, only reasons why other people are badder than me.

[Uncleeurope]

Because of wagon analysis I think it’s reasonable to assume that there was a baddie on the Joth wagon

What does this mean?

It was the only secondary wagon, theoretically an optimistic scum would be holding onto that. Do you disagree?

Also, when should I claim crap?

[Awaclus]

I’m trying my best here, people.

I don’t know what you want from me.

Try a bit better.

[Uncleeurope]

I’m trying my best here, people.

I don’t know what you want from me.

Try a bit better.

I am open to suggestions.

[faust]

Because of wagon analysis I think it’s reasonable to assume that there was a baddie on the Joth wagon

What does this mean?

It was the only secondary wagon, theoretically an optimistic scum would be holding onto that. Do you disagree?

Also, when should I claim crap?

For what reason do you assume that joth is town? Also there was a bigger wagon that scum would prefer to push through, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to split the non-EFHW crowd.

You have the most information on when you should claim, so I am at a loss to understand why you would ask us about that.

[MiX]

I’m trying my best here, people.

I don’t know what you want from me.

Try a bit better.

I am open to suggestions.

Don't sub scum.

We need to make PubbyGlasses a thing. I'll start:

Vote: Awaclus 

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, the meaningless “My Meta” argument:

I don’t play scum like this for a few reasons:

1. As scum every post I create is crafted and often takes me ages to submit because I want every word to be perfect. As town first drafts are preferred.

2. I don’t give a crap about partners as scum, if I think I would find them suspicious then I would lynch them. I had already mentioned being fine to lynch EFHW, so why would I back away from that when my only reward is to look scummy? It’s not like I was saving EFHW.

[faust]

1. As scum every post I create is crafted and often takes me ages to submit because I want every word to be perfect. As town first drafts are preferred.

So which of your posts is evidence of the latter rather than the former?

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I have gotten multiple notifications that others have posted in this conversation but I posted anyway, for one. I also am back to back posting a lot more. I can’t prove that I’ve been doing this all game, no.

[MiX]

Well, I have gotten multiple notifications that others have posted in this conversation but I posted anyway, for one. I also am back to back posting a lot more. I can’t prove that I’ve been doing this all game, no.

Can you point to a specific part of a post that suggests you didn't read PPEs?

[MiX]

Can someone provide me a way for ADK to have a safe fakeclaim that could have a number rating of 6 that doesn't immediately trigger any "obv!scum" alarms on anyone who knows the flavor or read the wiki? Notice how his fakeclaim must've been Matt Mason, since they claimed it (and if he claimed a partner's fakeclaim they're tied, given how EFHW flipped her fakeclaim).

With the above, I believe ADK must be town, and therefore will only lynch in (Eddie/Awaclus/faust), with the third option being if the other 2 becomes quasi-ICs.

[faust]

Can someone provide me a way for ADK to have a safe fakeclaim that could have a number rating of 6 that doesn't immediately trigger any "obv!scum" alarms on anyone who knows the flavor or read the wiki? Notice how his fakeclaim must've been Matt Mason, since they claimed it (and if he claimed a partner's fakeclaim they're tied, given how EFHW flipped her fakeclaim).

With the above, I believe ADK must be town, and therefore will only lynch in (Eddie/Awaclus/faust), with the third option being if the other 2 becomes quasi-ICs.

Why do you think that ADK's fakeclaim had a number rating of 6? I assumed that his real flavor has that rating.

[MiX]

Can someone provide me a way for ADK to have a safe fakeclaim that could have a number rating of 6 that doesn't immediately trigger any "obv!scum" alarms on anyone who knows the flavor or read the wiki? Notice how his fakeclaim must've been Matt Mason, since they claimed it (and if he claimed a partner's fakeclaim they're tied, given how EFHW flipped her fakeclaim).

With the above, I believe ADK must be town, and therefore will only lynch in (Eddie/Awaclus/faust), with the third option being if the other 2 becomes quasi-ICs.

Why do you think that ADK's fakeclaim had a number rating of 6? I assumed that his real flavor has that rating.

Sorry, I was thinking about it from a different perspective when I realized that was impossible. I meant his real role. So replace "a safe fakeclaim" with "a safe claim": notice how scum!ADK has to claim his actual role and not any fake ones. But thanks for catching that, I had changed my mind in the middle of the post.

[faust]

Can someone provide me a way for ADK to have a safe fakeclaim that could have a number rating of 6 that doesn't immediately trigger any "obv!scum" alarms on anyone who knows the flavor or read the wiki? Notice how his fakeclaim must've been Matt Mason, since they claimed it (and if he claimed a partner's fakeclaim they're tied, given how EFHW flipped her fakeclaim).

With the above, I believe ADK must be town, and therefore will only lynch in (Eddie/Awaclus/faust), with the third option being if the other 2 becomes quasi-ICs.

Why do you think that ADK's fakeclaim had a number rating of 6? I assumed that his real flavor has that rating.

Sorry, I was thinking about it from a different perspective when I realized that was impossible. I meant his real role. So replace "a safe fakeclaim" with "a safe claim": notice how scum!ADK has to claim his actual role and not any fake ones. But thanks for catching that, I had changed my mind in the middle of the post.

I don't understand what your getting at. What makes you think that ADK "had to" claim his actual flavor?

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I have gotten multiple notifications that others have posted in this conversation but I posted anyway, for one. I also am back to back posting a lot more. I can’t prove that I’ve been doing this all game, no.

Can you point to a specific part of a post that suggests you didn't read PPEs?

Uh, no?

How many baddies do you honk are in your trio of suspects?

[MiX]

Can someone provide me a way for ADK to have a safe fakeclaim that could have a number rating of 6 that doesn't immediately trigger any "obv!scum" alarms on anyone who knows the flavor or read the wiki? Notice how his fakeclaim must've been Matt Mason, since they claimed it (and if he claimed a partner's fakeclaim they're tied, given how EFHW flipped her fakeclaim).

With the above, I believe ADK must be town, and therefore will only lynch in (Eddie/Awaclus/faust), with the third option being if the other 2 becomes quasi-ICs.

Why do you think that ADK's fakeclaim had a number rating of 6? I assumed that his real flavor has that rating.

Sorry, I was thinking about it from a different perspective when I realized that was impossible. I meant his real role. So replace "a safe fakeclaim" with "a safe claim": notice how scum!ADK has to claim his actual role and not any fake ones. But thanks for catching that, I had changed my mind in the middle of the post.

I don't understand what your getting at. What makes you think that ADK "had to" claim his actual flavor?

"Has to", not "had to": if he claims now, he must claim his real flavor, because his safe fakeclaim is Matt Mason.

To sum up: scum!ADK has 2 safe claims: Matt Mason and a scum flavor with a number rating of 6 (he could've lied about the rating but it's better for him if it's lower). Therefore, if he's forced to claim, he needs to claim his real role, which is most likely "obv!scum" from town's perspective (after all, it CAN be scum). This means that scum!ADK is essencially forced to claim a much less townier role than he would otherwise need to.

As I write this, however, it is possible that he thought this was a townier claim than Matt Mason...

Well, I have gotten multiple notifications that others have posted in this conversation but I posted anyway, for one. I also am back to back posting a lot more. I can’t prove that I’ve been doing this all game, no.

Can you point to a specific part of a post that suggests you didn't read PPEs?

Uh, no?

How many baddies do you honk are in your trio of suspects?

2. Also, why not?

[Uncleeurope]

I mean, I have been multiposting a lot and have had to make follow-ups. But I don’t think that’s what you are asking.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, also I didn’t catch ADK had claimed Matt Mason, when was that? I only saw his number claim.

[Uncleeurope]

When do I claim stuff, by the way?

[Awaclus]

When do I claim stuff, by the way?

When you think it benefits your alignment.

[Uncleeurope]

And I was hoping to ask town whether it benefitted their alignment.

Silly me.

[MiX]

And I was hoping to ask town whether it benefitted their alignment.

Silly me.

How are we supposed to know? Glooble claimed because he was going to be outed, I softclaimed to avoid being lynched and now claimed because scum can deduce my role, do you have any reason like these?

[jotheonah]

MiX, why do you suspect Awaclus and how much of Awaclus’s claim do you think is true?

[faust]

To sum up: scum!ADK has 2 safe claims: Matt Mason and a scum flavor with a number rating of 6 (he could've lied about the rating but it's better for him if it's lower). Therefore, if he's forced to claim, he needs to claim his real role, which is most likely "obv!scum" from town's perspective (after all, it CAN be scum). This means that scum!ADK is essencially forced to claim a much less townier role than he would otherwise need to.

I mean... yes? I thought all this was commonly understood. I'm also not sure how any of it makes ADK town, as you seem to imply.

[Awaclus]

And I was hoping to ask town whether it benefitted their alignment.

Silly me.

The default play is to claim when you're about to get lynched, to prevent it from happening. Depending on what your role is, you can use your own judgment to claim earlier, or very rarely not even claim to prevent your own lynch. Think about what scum can do if they know your role (at the very least, it helps them PoE but sometimes it helps them more than that) and how it can hurt town if we don't know your role.

[jotheonah]

I look forward to the time when I have enough free time to fully articulate how scummy faust is and why we should definitely lynch him today. Maybe this evening! But in the meantime, nothing today has made me want to change my vote.

That said, I don’t hate the Eddie wagon. I also think this notion that Eddie flipping scum would clear faust is pretty ridiculous. If scum didnt bus yesterday they are sure as hell bussing hard today, especially given how much weight literally everyone is putting on wagon analysis today.

[MiX]

That said, I don’t hate the Eddie wagon. I also think this notion that Eddie flipping scum would clear faust is pretty ridiculous. If scum didnt bus yesterday they are sure as hell bussing hard today, especially given how much weight literally everyone is putting on wagon analysis today.

I would never ever bus here, precisely for this reason.

MiX, why do you suspect Awaclus and how much of Awaclus’s claim do you think is true?

I believe he made Galz an IC, but it was intentional and a side-effect of another role he has.

I look forward to the time when I have enough free time to fully articulate how scummy faust is and why we should definitely lynch him today. Maybe this evening! But in the meantime, nothing today has made me want to change my vote.

That reminds me, I need to reread his scum game.

[Awaclus]

I believe he made Galz an IC, but it was intentional and a side-effect of another role he has.

Well, I guess if you want to see the fact that I'm hated as the main part of my role and ICing a random townie other than myself as the side-effect, sure, I made Galz an IC and it was intentional and a side-effect of another role I have.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Faust

MiX, you expressed interest in this as well, lessgo.

[Awaclus]

Vote: faust

[MiX]

I believe he made Galz an IC, but it was intentional and a side-effect of another role he has.

Well, I guess if you want to see the fact that I'm hated as the main part of my role and ICing a random townie other than myself as the side-effect, sure, I made Galz an IC and it was intentional and a side-effect of another role I have.

That's not...I'm somewhat annoyed by the intentional misinterpretation but I like Awaclus' jokes, so I can't be mad.

Hey Vote: ADK, can you claim?

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 2.7:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): Uncle, WCD, Datswan
Uncle (5): faust, MiX, ADK, 2.7, Awaclus
MiX (1): Space

Not Voting (4): Galzria, PPS, Glooble, shraeye

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[jotheonah]

Ok I wrote a whole thing and it got deleted.

In games I’ve run with hated and loved mechanics, I’ve always been careful to say “It takes X votes to lynch most people” because otherwise “it takes X to lynch” could be construed as a mod lie and therefor bastard.

Ash, should we take your statement that “it takes 8 to lynch” as a promise that will hold in all cases, or would you write it that way even if cases existed in which it would take more or less than 8 to lynch?

[MiX]

If it's not public that there's Hated and Loved mechanics, it's a bit of a tell to say "most", isn't it? Besides, the wrong answer would destroy Awaclus' claim completely, so I can't see this question going anywhere.

[jotheonah]

If it's not public that there's Hated and Loved mechanics, it's a bit of a tell to say "most", isn't it? Besides, the wrong answer would destroy Awaclus' claim completely, so I can't see this question going anywhere.

I know it's a bit silly, but, taking everything at face value, Awaclus has made a claim that contradicts mod-supplied information. I don't think it's out of line to ask the mod to clarify that information.

[2.71828.....]

If it's not public that there's Hated and Loved mechanics, it's a bit of a tell to say "most", isn't it? Besides, the wrong answer would destroy Awaclus' claim completely, so I can't see this question going anywhere.

I know it's a bit silly, but, taking everything at face value, Awaclus has made a claim that contradicts mod-supplied information. I don't think it's out of line to ask the mod to clarify that information.

He has?

[2.71828.....]

Galzria is mod-confirmed to be Town.[/color]

I did this. I'm also hated now.

An individual being hated doesn't change the amount required for a lynch for everyone else

[A Drowned Kernel]

I believe he made Galz an IC, but it was intentional and a side-effect of another role he has.

Well, I guess if you want to see the fact that I'm hated as the main part of my role and ICing a random townie other than myself as the side-effect, sure, I made Galz an IC and it was intentional and a side-effect of another role I have.

That's not...I'm somewhat annoyed by the intentional misinterpretation but I like Awaclus' jokes, so I can't be mad.

Hey Vote: ADK, can you claim?

I could, that doesn't mean that I want to at the moment

[WestCoastDidds]

To sum up: scum!ADK has 2 safe claims: Matt Mason and a scum flavor with a number rating of 6 (he could've lied about the rating but it's better for him if it's lower). Therefore, if he's forced to claim, he needs to claim his real role, which is most likely "obv!scum" from town's perspective (after all, it CAN be scum). This means that scum!ADK is essencially forced to claim a much less townier role than he would otherwise need to.

I mean... yes? I thought all this was commonly understood. I'm also not sure how any of it makes ADK town, as you seem to imply.

I like that faust articulates the general sense of confusion I have with MiX. At present, I still think ADK is a fine vote.

I think Eddie is making sense, I am confused by MiX, and I like that Awaclus is engaging. I am super busy with revisions today, but I'm at a computer so I am more likely to be able to follow but not as likely to be able to string together much of coherence.

[SpaceAnemone]

Oh, also I didn’t catch ADK had claimed Matt Mason, when was that? I only saw his number claim.

That was way back here:

ADK: Please name a character form the show who is not in this game.

Matt Mason. I was, in fact, given a flavor fakeclaim, and I can see maybe see the utility in using it, but I figured that honesty would be the best policy.

What's your number?

They then followed up with #120 clarifying that Matt Mason was the fake flavour name, in case people didn't follow what faust was driving at when he'd originally challenged ADK to name a character form the show who is not in this game.

[SpaceAnemone]

In other news, could we go back to using they/them as a pronoun for the players who've said it's their preferred option? I know ADK hasn't called anyone out on all the "he/him" they've been getting lately, but I don't personally want return to being met with "default he" all over again around here...

[Swowl]

Checking in - service is way worse here than expected. I have enough to load the page each day and stay caught up, but posting is still gonna be low for 4 more days or so.

I’ll try to push a summary post out each day if service will allow it.

[MiX]

In other news, could we go back to using they/them as a pronoun for the players who've said it's their preferred option? I know ADK hasn't called anyone out on all the "he/him" they've been getting lately, but I don't personally want return to being met with "default he" all over again around here...

I was doing "they/them" for ADK when I """remembered""" they were "he/him" so I corrected it...

[Galzria]

Alright. Well, I'm not one to play IC reserved, so let's just get where I stand out on the table. I'll do this as a series of posts for now, rather than one massively long one so as to (hopefully) make it more readable.

Let's begin with "What are the Harnessed Children"?:

Now, sixteen of us in camp.  The way we've been failing in our counteroffensives, we can't all be trustworthy.  After another long march, we came across a welcome, yet depressing, sight.

Here in this clearing, there are twelve harnessed kids.  They are just standing there, silent, staring.  We need to save them, somehow.

Night Zero begins now!

"We" are Sixteen Players. Most of us are town, but not all of us. "Some" of us are untrustworthy. Collectively, we've come across something additional: Twelve Harnessed Children.

"We" are not the Children. So what are the Children, if not us? The Children are tools. They are, for lack of a better word, a collective shot-pool for scum. Scum Night Actions require the use of a Harnessed Child. They have twelve of them that can be collectively used throughout the game, instead of being 1-shot or infinite. When a Child is used, it dies.

But wait!

As the sun rises, so do our senses.  You never know from where an attack might come.  We've already lost too many.

As everyone rouses, a sad sight: the twelve harnessed children are down to eleven.  One is laid out on the ground, gone.

Day 1 begins now!

Night 0 Scum used an ability. Given general expected options (and the way certain things played out), I suspect it was to have Day Chat for D1, however I cannot absolutely confirm this at this time.

How do I know this is correct? Let's just say... that part of my role confirms it.

[Galzria]

Now, I'm going to get into reads.

Let's start with the towniest of town, and work our way down.

Town #1: Joth
- First and foremost, he's been playing crazy hard into his town meta all game. Scum!Joth is much more subtle than this, and I've been saying it since D1.
- Second, Scum were absolutely NOT content to just let EFHW get lynched. They scrambled and scrambled to try and get something else to stick. This resulted on wagons against me, and against Joth. As I'm town, it's pretty obvious scum wasn't driving a lynch from EFHW to their other scum!partner Joth.
- Third, Joth ends on the EFHW wagon. I'll just get this out there now: That wagon was townie af. There was absolutely no guarentee that it was going down, multiple people had said they categorically would not vote for EFHW, and a number of others had indicated that was the case. Joth could've said screw it, and voted faust. He could've said screw it, and voted me. He could've said screw it, and said "I definitely prefer no lynch to this BS" and left his vote on No-Lynch. If Joth doesn't come back to the EFHW wagon, that wagon doesn't happen.

- Players that have voted Joth:
MiX (82, 830, 885)
faust (497, 550, 702, 746)
ADK (733)
Eddie (887)

[Galzria]

Second most townie:

MiX:
- Nearly every player voted for him D1, pushing him up to L-1 at two different points, with two fairly different wagons. The speed and ease at which this happened just doesn't happen if MiX is scum.
- MiX also ended on the EFHW wagon, setting up the hammer. He very well could've stayed on me or on Joth - both of whom were viable late-lynch candidates.
- MiX's claim is townie. While he over-exaggerated his ability to make himself IC, it was pretty obvious from past games with him that we should've expected exactly that. As has been pointed out - MiX's idea of IC is not what anybody else considers IC.

- Players that have voted MiX:
Awaclus (130, 375)
Pubby (132, 269, 719)
Faust (133)
Galzria (218)
ADK (248, 502)
Didds (249)
Glooble (250, 384)
PPS (275, 486)
Space (292)
Joth (371)
Swan (469)
Shraeye (526, 840)

[Galzria]

Third most townie:

Datswan:
- See post 869, 2h 36m to deadline:

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye

- EFHW!partner!Swan does not stay on EFHW at this point in time. Period. End of story.

Players who voted Swan:
Galzria (357, 504)
e (816)

[Galzria]

Fourth most townie:

WCD:
- In 853, Joth votes to put EFHW to L-2. This is about 6h 45m to deadline. Joth notes (first person to do so) that EFHW has a hard VLA and will be unable to defend herself. This would/should present the perfect excuse for a partner who is currently ON wagon to jump off. WCD is the next person to post in 854, 6h 15m to deadline. She notes that she does not like that EFHW will be unable to defend herself but chooses to stay ON the wagon. This is not what scum!partner!WCD would do here.
- Further, as I noted a few times yesterday, WCD has a scum!tell that she has not exhibited this game. While I believe she's capable of correcting said tell, I do not believe that she has done so here. Especially if she's unclear on exactly what that tell is.

- Players who have voted WCD:
ADK (255)
Pubby (636, 858)
Shraeye (711)

[Galzria]

Fifth up:

Awaclus:
- There isn't a whole lot to be said here. Awaclus could've just as easily stayed off of the EFHW wagon as gotten on, and nobody would've bothered to criticize him for it, because it's Awaclus.
- His claim is, overall, townie. It -could- be a scum role that also grants him some extra power at the cost of IC'ing a random town player (or even one of his choosing), but I just don't really believe it right now.

- Players who have voted Awaclus:
MiX (131, 203, 376, 419
Pubby (206
Joth (216

[Galzria]

Oh, hell. Let's do one person that's townie that was off wagon, shall we?

Pubby:
- Looking at Swan's VC at 869, there was only one mistake:

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye

Pubby was no longer voting for me, but was instead voting for WCD. This vote change happened at post 858, and was 5h 3m to deadline. Given the state of the game at the point when pubby changed from voting me to voting WCD, and given the fact that pubby never came back to attempt to re-solidify a wagon anywhere else - this was a dagger in any real attempt to pull a lynch away from EFHW.

- People who have voted for Pubby:
MiX (111)
faust (127)
e (172)
Glooble (652)

[Galzria]

And now to take a break. Where does that leave us though?

Town:
Galzria
Joth
MiX
Swan
WCD
Awaclus
Pubby

Left to go over:
Eddie
Shraeye
PPS
Glooble
Space
faust
ADK
e

[faust]

Let's begin with "What are the Harnessed Children"?:

[...]

How do I know this is correct? Let's just say... that part of my role confirms it.

I can tell you right now that part of this is incorrect.

[faust]

Let's begin with "What are the Harnessed Children"?:

[...]

How do I know this is correct? Let's just say... that part of my role confirms it.

I can tell you right now that part of this is incorrect.

Ah, nevermind, I misread something. Carry on.

[Awaclus]

MiX's idea of IC is not what anybody else considers IC.

Well, if his current claim is true, then his idea of IC seems to be absolutely nothing at all.

[2.71828.....]

Man, I really wanted to be in Galzria's top 5 after I saw what he was doing. Joth and WCD beat me out?

[2.71828.....]

Let's begin with "What are the Harnessed Children"?:

[...]

How do I know this is correct? Let's just say... that part of my role confirms it.

I can tell you right now that part of this is incorrect.

Interesting.  Curious to know more

[2.71828.....]

MiX's idea of IC is not what anybody else considers IC.

Well, if his current claim is true, then his idea of IC seems to be absolutely nothing at all.

I am pretty sure he just means "really townie person that people think is town"

[2.71828.....]

Oh, hell. Let's do one person that's townie that was off wagon, shall we?

Pubby:
- Looking at Swan's VC at 869, there was only one mistake:

Swan Attempt at VC from phone - 2.5 hrs to DL


Galzria (5): EFHW, Glooble, pubby, Space, Eddie
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust,
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye

Pubby was no longer voting for me, but was instead voting for WCD. This vote change happened at post 858, and was 5h 3m to deadline. Given the state of the game at the point when pubby changed from voting me to voting WCD, and given the fact that pubby never came back to attempt to re-solidify a wagon anywhere else - this was a dagger in any real attempt to pull a lynch away from EFHW.

- People who have voted for Pubby:
MiX (111)
faust (127)
e (172)
Glooble (652)

Disagree with this assessment about pubby.  Scum didn't necessarily need to lynch anyone there, they just needed to NOT lynch EFHW. 

I do agree with your earlier statement about the EFHW wagon being super townie.

[MiX]

MiX's idea of IC is not what anybody else considers IC.

Well, if his current claim is true, then his idea of IC seems to be absolutely nothing at all.

It's not, no. But what can I say, I made a plan and was excited to claim it. I still think I'm the best PR. This reminds me, do you think I can inherit your ICify ability? if so, I suggest we lynch you and then we create another IC.

Galzria is best IC.

[Awaclus]

I am pretty sure he just means "really townie person that people think is town"

Looks like more like "really null person that people think is null" to me. MiX has voted for me today, even though I demonstrably have a role with a pro-town effect, which is the best case scenario his "IC plan" could have ever hoped for. More likely he pulls a Doctor or a Tracker or a Roleblocker or something and nobody can ever verify that he has it.

[Awaclus]

It's not, no. But what can I say, I made a plan and was excited to claim it. I still think I'm the best PR. This reminds me, do you think I can inherit your ICify ability? if so, I suggest we lynch you and then we create another IC.

And then you get roleblocked and it was all for nothing. No thanks, let's lynch scum instead.

[MiX]

It's not, no. But what can I say, I made a plan and was excited to claim it. I still think I'm the best PR. This reminds me, do you think I can inherit your ICify ability? if so, I suggest we lynch you and then we create another IC.

And then you get roleblocked and it was all for nothing. No thanks, let's lynch scum instead.

I actually make plans that are better than "and then I got roleblocked" (although it's fair if you don't believe it). Can you answer the question?

[Awaclus]

It's not, no. But what can I say, I made a plan and was excited to claim it. I still think I'm the best PR. This reminds me, do you think I can inherit your ICify ability? if so, I suggest we lynch you and then we create another IC.

And then you get roleblocked and it was all for nothing. No thanks, let's lynch scum instead.

I actually make plans that are better than "and then I got roleblocked" (although it's fair if you don't believe it). Can you answer the question?

Apparently you make plans where "I will be an IC by day 3" means "if I'm lucky, I will be able to do a thing someone else did d2 and they were still my top scumread afterwards".

[Awaclus]

And no, I'm not going to answer the question, since obviously what you're asking is just was my role 1-shot or can I keep creating more ICs every night, which I'm sure scum would love to know.

[shraeye]

Hey all.  This will be a lot less organized that other catch-up posts. It pretty much sums up my current headspace

Catching up to VoteCount 2.7 (about 6 hrs ago)

NK:
No nightkill, awesome!
I agree with faust here:

1) probz more than 1 skum team.

Seems quite improbable given that there was no nightkill.

There are other aspects of DatSwans big ol' post that were weird too; I'll get to those.

While I'm agreeing with faust (and continue my streak of being agreeable with him...), let me also include

I think WCD deserves a bit more attention, but not today.

I mean, why not today? We still have time. And lots of people, including myself, scumread WCD.

vote: WCD

I have to say this post is pretty dang townie. pubby is on the Galzria wagon, which had just pulled even with EFHW, and at that point he decides to leave it for... someone who has absolutely no votes on them. It doesn't make any sense as a partner play.

DatSwan's post:(link)
I agree with point 1; I think Awaclus/DatSwan/joth/Galz(duh)/WCD are definitely getting townpoints here.  The hardest one in that list for me to believe is WCD. Lingering suspicion from Day1 exists, as well as other tiny radar blips not worth mentioning.

Hard disagree on his point#3, where players who later switched to EFHW are "cleared."  In particular, I think Space and Glooble deserve heat here.  Especially Space.

I also disagree with DatSwan's conclusion to look at [faust/eddit/ADK]  I'm feeling like that whole clump is town

SpaceAnenome:
The Space/MiX thing is definitely not scum/scum.  And I'm pretty sure it's not town/town.  So which one is scum?  Space.  As faust points out, Space does not look good on her EFHW vote, despite where it may fall numbers-wise.

Also, Space's reference to "EFHWs power" when the idea was still kicking around that EFHW may have multiple powers.  Really feels like Space knows the answer on that one.

Also, I made note a few times on Day1 that it really felt like Space was "after the action" on a lot of her posts.  Not a lot I can specifically point to there, but anybody who is willing to reread should keep an eye out for that.  The rhythm seems to be Event, Reaction, Speculation&Analysis, New Event, Space's post about Event#1.  Not the proactive stuff that my memory tells me Space is capable of.

Also also, hedgy unvote


Vote: Space

[shraeye]

Also, this mornings posts by Uncle make me more convinced he's town. 

Secondly and unrelatedly, I'm wary of pps.  I had a lot of moments where I agree with him day1, but no specific towny moments I can point to.  Given that I normally disagree with everybody, it seems like a fine reason to call him out.

[shraeye]

Town:
Galzria
Joth
MiX
Swan
WCD
Awaclus
Pubby

I agree; two people here are on my radar, but I definitely still rate the whole list town.

[jotheonah]

shraeye, can you elaborate on the "Space/MiX" thing you're talking about? What is it and why does it make it unlikely for them both to be town or both to be scum?

[shraeye]

shraeye, can you elaborate on the "Space/MiX" thing you're talking about? What is it and why does it make it unlikely for them both to be town or both to be scum?

A flurry of posts between them around the #1010 mark.  doesn't have the town/town feel.  And I don't think scum disagrees at eachother this hard given the EFHW lynch.

[MiX]

Vote: Space

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, I made note a few times on Day1 that it really felt like Space was "after the action" on a lot of her posts.  Not a lot I can specifically point to there, but anybody who is willing to reread should keep an eye out for that.  The rhythm seems to be Event, Reaction, Speculation&Analysis, New Event, Space's post about Event#1.  Not the proactive stuff that my memory tells me Space is capable of.

I agree with this...I have hard a time describing this to myself, but shraeye is better at explaining stuff than I am. I don’t know if it’s Space being busy and keeping up, though. Still mulling.

One thing I agree with MiX about...Galz is the best IC.

[shraeye]

Well, let us know when you're done mulling and what your conclusion is

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey, am I getting scum-read for being British??

On weekdays I might check in during work hours (5am-1.30pm forum time roughly), but I'm not doing any serious analysis, and probably not voting unless it's strictly necessary, because I'm generally really busy and working in a shared office where I don't want to set a bad example to junior colleagues. I admit this is more strict than it was a year or two back, but I have soooo much work to do these days.

Work is usually followed by a few hours of being out and about doing stuff (tonight was dinner, choir rehearsal, post-choir drinks), so any real posting I do is likely to be in the 23:00-00:30 window (6pm-7.30pm forum time). Go back and read any game of mine in the last couple of years, and you're likely to see the same sort of pattern.

[SpaceAnemone]

SpaceAnenome:
The Space/MiX thing is definitely not scum/scum.  And I'm pretty sure it's not town/town.  So which one is scum?  Space.  As faust points out, Space does not look good on her EFHW vote, despite where it may fall numbers-wise.

I already admitted I was very nearly going to vote elsewhere, but I went for EFHW because I thought she was the one one we had a chance on. Note that up till that point I had been saying I wasn't interested in voting EFHW simply because I didn't agree with faust's reasoning for throwing other people out of the nice logical lynchpool he'd made. That meant that any push before that wasn't able to count on my vote, and the EFHW lynch up till then was looking really marginal.. so I don't think me changing my mind is as irrelevant as faust is trying to claim. But sure, it wasn't like I was raring to lynch her, and I do think we were very lucky to get it through in the end.

Also, Space's reference to "EFHWs power" when the idea was still kicking around that EFHW may have multiple powers.  Really feels like Space knows the answer on that one.

That one's such a stretch it's laughable. MiX literally claimed to have received a power from EFHW (like, very specifically one singular power, possibly out of multiple), and I'm asking him in that post about the mechanisms because I think it could be broken, and wanted to see if he could be cornered into saying anything I could possibly disprove.

(Side note: I'm okay with she/her as a pronoun for people who find they/them too difficult, but I'd actually really prefer they/them if possible. Thanks!)

[SpaceAnemone]

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

Because the Skitter that I know is town-aligned cannot also be MiX (for reasons I don't want to go into). So we have no reason to believe that Skitter!MiX has to be town-aligned, and also no reason to believe that MiX is even telling the truth about being a Skitter to begin with, because that could be his fake-claim.

[MiX]

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

Because the Skitter that I know is town-aligned cannot also be MiX (for reasons I don't want to go into). So we have no reason to believe that Skitter!MiX has to be town-aligned, and also no reason to believe that MiX is even telling the truth about being a Skitter to begin with, because that could be his fake-claim.

That's a lot of words for "I know Glooble is town", why even mention anything other than this?

Vote: ADK, I need to start to think for myself.

[shraeye]

Hey, am I getting scum-read for being British??

On weekdays I might check in during work hours (5am-1.30pm forum time roughly), but I'm not doing any serious analysis, and probably not voting unless it's strictly necessary, because I'm generally really busy and working in a shared office where I don't want to set a bad example to junior colleagues. I admit this is more strict than it was a year or two back, but I have soooo much work to do these days.

Work is usually followed by a few hours of being out and about doing stuff (tonight was dinner, choir rehearsal, post-choir drinks), so any real posting I do is likely to be in the 23:00-00:30 window (6pm-7.30pm forum time). Go back and read any game of mine in the last couple of years, and you're likely to see the same sort of pattern.

#strawman

[SpaceAnemone]

- MiX also ended on the EFHW wagon, setting up the hammer. He very well could've stayed on me or on Joth - both of whom were viable late-lynch candidates.

With apologies for returning to a point I made previously, MiX being on-wagon only happened after it was already looking inevitable. I'd moved to EFHW by counting the number of present voters and deciding she was the only one we could get through. MiX was literally in the middle of trying to pivot to Joth when my vote and Glooble's came in, and he only re-joined EFHW as a PPE on a Joth case... so he was trying hard to move his vote in a plausible-looking way just past the point at which joining the EFHW wagon looked townie.

Note also that MiX was trying to argue against this interpretation by asking what use his Joth case would have been anyway when EFHW flipped scum, and yet was not able to offer a town motivation for why making his self-claimed "big pile of nothing" Joth case when I asked him about it later (see #1023, which he never responded to, and which nobody else seems to want to pick up on).

Anyway, I'm somewhat frustrated at being scumread for being a "late joiner" on the EFHW wagon at a point where it might not have gone through without my vote, and MiX is being townread as an early enough participant for having joined two votes later when it was much more clearly going to succeed.

[SpaceAnemone]

That's a lot of words for "I know Glooble is town", why even mention anything other than this?

Your logic is flawed. I want to make it clear that I'm not saying I can vouch for Glooble's towniness.

[SpaceAnemone]

#strawman

What? You said I often respond behind the action, and I'm pointing out that most of my posting is done in a 1-2-hour window, so anything posted after about now in the day isn't going to be picked up by my for up to 23 hours... and it would be terrible play for me not to respond to relevant stuff just because it's a few hours old, especially because it's common for a lot of the US-based players to post stuff in their evening times.

And on that note... it's almost 1am and I'm actually in my office, so I need to head home to bed!

[pingpongsam]

Got slammed at work today and trying to do family things tonight. Should be super available tomorrow though. Tried to catch up over dinner but when it got to space posting it started to blur so I will just try again tomorrow. In general, I’m feeling town on Awaclus.

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

Because the Skitter that I know is town-aligned cannot also be MiX (for reasons I don't want to go into). So we have no reason to believe that Skitter!MiX has to be town-aligned, and also no reason to believe that MiX is even telling the truth about being a Skitter to begin with, because that could be his fake-claim.

That's a lot of words for "I know Glooble is town", why even mention anything other than this?

Vote: ADK, I need to start to think for myself.

Why are you voting for me again?

[faust]

Town #1: Joth
- First and foremost, he's been playing crazy hard into his town meta all game. Scum!Joth is much more subtle than this, and I've been saying it since D1.

I know you have, and I have townread joth for the exact same reason in M120. He was scum. So I don't accept that as a town tell.

If Joth doesn't come back to the EFHW wagon, that wagon doesn't happen.

I really don't like this line of reasoning. First of all, who knows? Eddie said he was around to vote, so one vote less wouldn't have killed the wagon. Second, even if it were true, scum had no way of knowing it at the time. It could just as easily be a decision of being off-wagon for a scum lynch vs being on wagon. Voting EFHW is the minimax strategy for scum there.

Awaclus:
- There isn't a whole lot to be said here. Awaclus could've just as easily stayed off of the EFHW wagon as gotten on, and nobody would've bothered to criticize him for it, because it's Awaclus.

Like... what? Awaclus isn't immune to wagon analysis, and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Of course he would have looked scummy if he was off the scum lynch.

[faust]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

[MiX]

- MiX also ended on the EFHW wagon, setting up the hammer. He very well could've stayed on me or on Joth - both of whom were viable late-lynch candidates.

Note also that MiX was trying to argue against this interpretation by asking what use his Joth case would have been anyway when EFHW flipped scum, and yet was not able to offer a town motivation for why making his self-claimed "big pile of nothing" Joth case when I asked him about it later (see #1023, which he never responded to, and which nobody else seems to want to pick up on).

For if EFHW flipped town, of course, but you clearly didn't think that could ever be possible.

Vote: Space

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

Because the Skitter that I know is town-aligned cannot also be MiX (for reasons I don't want to go into). So we have no reason to believe that Skitter!MiX has to be town-aligned, and also no reason to believe that MiX is even telling the truth about being a Skitter to begin with, because that could be his fake-claim.

That's a lot of words for "I know Glooble is town", why even mention anything other than this?

Vote: ADK, I need to start to think for myself.

Why are you voting for me again?

I think Swan made a case for you? That and I only now fully understood your claim and how, while it limits scum!you's options, is a pretty towny thing to do, so it doesn't clear you.


Hmm stuck between (Space/ADK) at the moment.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.8:

faust (4): joth, pubby, Uncle, Awaclus
ADK (2): WCD, Datswan
Uncle (3): faust, ADK, 2.7
MiX (1): Space
Space (2): shraeye, MiX

Not Voting (3): Galzria, PPS, Glooble

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[jotheonah]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

Do you care to expound on this?

[ashersky]

Ash, should we take your statement that “it takes 8 to lynch” as a promise that will hold in all cases, or would you write it that way even if cases existed in which it would take more or less than 8 to lynch?

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question.  In all games that I have modded, my vote count wording has been the same (at least since I codified it), regardless of the roles and role modifiers that may or may not have existed in them.  That statement applies to all past, present, and future games.

[faust]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

Do you care to expound on this?

Not really. Is there anything in particular that you need to know?

[Glooble]

I'm back from my V/LA but now of course I have a ton of work to catch up on. I'll try and catch up on this thread at lunch.

[jotheonah]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

Do you care to expound on this?

Not really. Is there anything in particular that you need to know?

Do you have any proof? Does this disprove Galzria's theory? Why did you think it was something we needed to know? How does this information help us?

[faust]

Do you have any proof? Does this disprove Galzria's theory? Why did you think it was something we needed to know? How does this information help us?

1. Yes, there was a public message at the start of D2 saying that a child was released.
2. No.
3./4. Because I'm the top wagon right now, and this is a good reason to not lynch me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

[faust]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

[Uncleeurope]

Do we have any idea what releasing these people does?

What is the thematic significance?

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, well those last 2 posts help with that question, ignore me.

[faust]

Do we have any idea what releasing these people does?

What is the thematic significance?

I remove the harness and they wander off to their parents to live happily ever after. (paraphrased)

[Galzria]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

My theory could be slightly flawed. Used may mean “no longer available”. However, that is something that will become self evident as days go by. Perhaps each Espheni has different “use” flavor. Still, the way the Child was freed has a townie ring to it, so I feel as if we should be willing to let it (the case for you being scummy, not the child) go for today.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: PPS

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: PPS

Vote: PPS

[Awaclus]

Vote: Eddie

[jotheonah]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

My theory could be slightly flawed. Used may mean “no longer available”. However, that is something that will become self evident as days go by. Perhaps each Espheni has different “use” flavor. Still, the way the Child was freed has a townie ring to it, so I feel as if we should be willing to let it (the case for you being scummy, not the child) go for today.

Except that there's absolutely no proof that faust was responsible for freeing the child!

[Awaclus]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

My theory could be slightly flawed. Used may mean “no longer available”. However, that is something that will become self evident as days go by. Perhaps each Espheni has different “use” flavor. Still, the way the Child was freed has a townie ring to it, so I feel as if we should be willing to let it (the case for you being scummy, not the child) go for today.

Except that there's absolutely no proof that faust was responsible for freeing the child!

Well, I think it's fair to assume so as long as nobody counterclaims.

[Galzria]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

My theory could be slightly flawed. Used may mean “no longer available”. However, that is something that will become self evident as days go by. Perhaps each Espheni has different “use” flavor. Still, the way the Child was freed has a townie ring to it, so I feel as if we should be willing to let it (the case for you being scummy, not the child) go for today.

Except that there's absolutely no proof that faust was responsible for freeing the child!

True, however I don’t believe that it was a random (uncontrolled) mechanic, and I’m comfortable enough assuming he won’t be counter claimed (would be a dumb scum move otherwise). Further, I think it’s fair to assume it’s not a repeatable ability, given what it’s doing, so..

[Uncleeurope]

Hey, Awaclus, would you rather kill Faust over me, still? Or was Faust just a fad?

[jotheonah]

Faust, did you end up in overall agreement (or at least not contradicting) Galz's statement that the harnessed children are some kind of resource pool for scum? Does that mean that right now you think the children are something like scum shots, and that your action decreased their pool by one, thus helping town?

If that's the case, why do we think that scum chose not to use up any shots doing anything last night, such that we've only seen one child freed and not more than one, given that you take credit for the one that was freed?

I have no information that would disprove Galzria's theory. He did mention specifically that "used up" children die, and as you can see, the one that I released is alive.

My theory could be slightly flawed. Used may mean “no longer available”. However, that is something that will become self evident as days go by. Perhaps each Espheni has different “use” flavor. Still, the way the Child was freed has a townie ring to it, so I feel as if we should be willing to let it (the case for you being scummy, not the child) go for today.

Except that there's absolutely no proof that faust was responsible for freeing the child!

True, however I don’t believe that it was a random (uncontrolled) mechanic, and I’m comfortable enough assuming he won’t be counter claimed (would be a dumb scum move otherwise). Further, I think it’s fair to assume it’s not a repeatable ability, given what it’s doing, so..

Too many assumptions for my taste. People in this town are giving out town cred for any old claim.

Maybe it’s a powerful enough ability that it’s worth it to draw out the counterclaim. We really don’t know.

[Awaclus]

Hey, Awaclus, would you rather kill Faust over me, still? Or was Faust just a fad?

Does it look like I'm voting for faust still?

[Uncleeurope]

Just wondering if you moving your vote was tied to me moving mine, or his claim.

[Awaclus]

Just wondering if you moving your vote was tied to me moving mine, or his claim.

Who knows.

[pubby]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

In other words my theory that harnessed kids = players is incorrect? Why didn't you speak up earlier? :S

[faust]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

In other words my theory that harnessed kids = players is incorrect? Why didn't you speak up earlier? :S

Earlier I thought it beneficial not to reveal this. I also didn't know what the harnessed kids are there for.

[2.71828.....]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

In other words my theory that harnessed kids = players is incorrect? Why didn't you speak up earlier? :S

Earlier I thought it beneficial not to reveal this. I also didn't know what the harnessed kids are there for.

And now you do?

[faust]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

In other words my theory that harnessed kids = players is incorrect? Why didn't you speak up earlier? :S

Earlier I thought it beneficial not to reveal this. I also didn't know what the harnessed kids are there for.

And now you do?

Is this rhethorical or something?

[2.71828.....]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

In other words my theory that harnessed kids = players is incorrect? Why didn't you speak up earlier? :S

Earlier I thought it beneficial not to reveal this. I also didn't know what the harnessed kids are there for.

And now you do?

Is this rhethorical or something?

No, it was just a gut reaction without reading the rest of the thread

[faust]

Just wondering if you moving your vote was tied to me moving mine, or his claim.

Who knows.

You!

[pingpongsam]

Shit, just got free but am caught up. The Harnessed Child thing looks good on faust for now in light of no counter claiming for the happenstance. So much so that I won't vote him today.

[pingpongsam]

Also, Vote: Space

[WestCoastDidds]

Faust, you released a child? We’re you able to do anything else in regard to the child?

[Swowl]

Not 100% caught up.

Re: harnessed kids -  Skum could have  some sort of PR that forces skum to give up a kid if they are to use said power (or something like that).

I find it strange the amount of like “compatibility” there seems to be between so many players in regards to the wording of their roles and opening QTs. I could be bias because i got like none of this info in mine... but because i didn’t... the fact that so many people seem to  have so much coordinating info.... kind of makes me skeptical of all the info.

I believe the kid mechanic, mainly because it makes sense (and Galz is IC)
Not 100% on glooble/mix at all
Still deciding about Faust

I Am not advocating a focus on players with this type of info right now... but the overall lack of suspicion that has been cast in general is... suspicious, and should be noted by all.

[Glooble]

I find it strange the amount of like “compatibility” there seems to be between so many players in regards to the wording of their roles and opening QTs. I could be bias because i got like none of this info in mine... but because i didn’t... the fact that so many people seem to  have so much coordinating info.... kind of makes me skeptical of all the info.

I believe the kid mechanic, mainly because it makes sense (and Galz is IC)
Not 100% on glooble/mix at all
Still deciding about Faust

Just to clarify: there’s nothing in my role pm that implies that MiX is town. Nothing that suggests the existence of a second town-aligned skitter.

[MiX]

I find it strange the amount of like “compatibility” there seems to be between so many players in regards to the wording of their roles and opening QTs. I could be bias because i got like none of this info in mine... but because i didn’t... the fact that so many people seem to  have so much coordinating info.... kind of makes me skeptical of all the info.

I believe the kid mechanic, mainly because it makes sense (and Galz is IC)
Not 100% on glooble/mix at all
Still deciding about Faust

Just to clarify: there’s nothing in my role pm that implies that MiX is town. Nothing that suggests the existence of a second town-aligned skitter.

And vice-versa.

[Uncleeurope]

I am liking ADK/PPS now as things to poke at. Maybe e...

I can’t shake the ADK thing.

[SpaceAnemone]

- MiX also ended on the EFHW wagon, setting up the hammer. He very well could've stayed on me or on Joth - both of whom were viable late-lynch candidates.

Note also that MiX was trying to argue against this interpretation by asking what use his Joth case would have been anyway when EFHW flipped scum, and yet was not able to offer a town motivation for why making his self-claimed "big pile of nothing" Joth case when I asked him about it later (see #1023, which he never responded to, and which nobody else seems to want to pick up on).

For if EFHW flipped town, of course, but you clearly didn't think that could ever be possible.

What are you on about?? You are just so blatantly stubbornly refusing to engage with my actual point that I feel like one of us must just be missing something huge, because otherwise you make no sense.

Here is the timeline:

1. You say at #1017 "Looking back, my joth case is a big pile of nothing if I knew EFHW would flip scum...". This statement was made when we all know that EFHW has flipped scum.

2. In the very next post, I point out that if you knew EFHW was scum (i.e. by being scum), then it makes perfect sense for you to have been trying to make a case on not-EFHW in the run-up to her lynch. What I don't see is a strong reason for town!MiX making that same post. You're now, in D2, trying very hard to argue that your D1 case was useless, but not giving me any feel for why D1!town!MiX would have decided to put effort into building a Joth case and posting it at just the last-minute point where people were converging at least on the EFHW wagon in lynch-sufficient numbers.

3. You respond at #1021 saying "Also look at the timestamp of my big joth case: less than an hour before deadline. It's useless." -- you're definitely trying to prove that your case is useless, but evidently also trying very hard not to own the fact that you posted it in the first place.

4. At #1023, I said: The question here is not "was the case on Joth useful?". The question is, "given that you were definitely pushing a case on Joth, what do we think your intention in making it was?". This is because the only reason I can see for posting a Joth case that close to deadline was to sway some votes onto Joth.

(There is a loooooong gap where you go on to other things and never revisit my questions. During this time Shraeye characterizes the above as a town-v-scum sort of interaction, and since he seems to scumread me for that, I address it and point back to #1023).

5. You finally appear to respond to #1023 at #1176 with "For if EFHW flipped town, of course, but you clearly didn't think that could ever be possible.", which doesn't seem to address anything at all. Are you saying that you just wanted to have a Joth case out there in the post where you voted EFHW so that if EFHW flipped town people would just look back at it and give you towncred for saying you wanted to lynch someone else while actually voting for her anyway?

Lastly, why on earth are you asserting that I seem to think that EFHW couldn't have flipped town at the EoD anyway? Would you feel your Joth case was suddenly great if she'd flipped town? As I pointed out back at #1018, there's nothing tying EFHW and Joth together in terms of alignment in your case, so I don't see how EFHW's flip affects how good or bad you might feel your case is, and if my reasoning is coming from a place of knowing she flipped scum, that's because I know she flipped scum, and I'm scumreading you for your behaviour in the run-up to that flip.


So anyway, what am I missing that makes MiX's response, or refusal to acknowledge the stuff I'm asking about, make any sense? Does anyone else find his replies just infuriatingly evasive? Or does this just make sense to everyone else, and if so, could someone explain to me what I'm missing it in more accessible terms?

[A Drowned Kernel]

One sat down.  And another...free!

I was looking back at the harnessed kids information and caught this- there appears to be another kid who was tampered with during the night, though the only apparent effect is that they're now sitting? It might be insignificant flavor but it seems like there may be no such things as insignificant flavor.

I'm liking faust's claim and would like to look elsewhere than him for a lynch

I trust glooble way more than mix and am finding a lot of mix's behavior today suspicious (and am very underwhelmed by what his "IC" plan turned out to be)

PPE space

[Galzria]

Space:

Very simply, MiX went out of his way to say “This is my case on Joth for tomorrow”. There’s nothing wrong with a player, especially a town player, laying out a case on a different player he thinks is scum heading into deadline when he doesn’t even know if he’ll be alive tomorrow to make the case.

The point is, MiX acknowledged that it was too close to deadline to matter, and voted for now-confirmed scum instead, recognizing the wagon needed to be consolidated onto EFHW. I really don’t see what you think is scummy about this? Had EFHW flipped town, MiX would be pushing Joth today based on his case from yesterday. EFHW flipping scum however, points overwhelmingly towards town!joth and thus MiX is acknowledging the case was probably wrong. I see no incentive for scum!MiX to have wasted his time putting together that case knowing EFHW was about to flip scum.

[Swowl]

I find it strange the amount of like “compatibility” there seems to be between so many players in regards to the wording of their roles and opening QTs. I could be bias because i got like none of this info in mine... but because i didn’t... the fact that so many people seem to  have so much coordinating info.... kind of makes me skeptical of all the info.

I believe the kid mechanic, mainly because it makes sense (and Galz is IC)
Not 100% on glooble/mix at all
Still deciding about Faust

Just to clarify: there’s nothing in my role pm that implies that MiX is town. Nothing that suggests the existence of a second town-aligned skitter.

That is actually a super useful clarification.. not the vibe i was getting.
You do think MiX is town though correct? Or am i making that up in my memory?

[faust]

Faust, you released a child? We’re you able to do anything else in regard to the child?

No comment.

[pubby]

One sat down.  And another...free!

I was looking back at the harnessed kids information and caught this- there appears to be another kid who was tampered with during the night, though the only apparent effect is that they're now sitting? It might be insignificant flavor but it seems like there may be no such things as insignificant flavor.

Let's assume scum spent a child yesterday to NK and failed. What happens to the child?

I think it's possible the message may be in reference to this.

unvote

I think we should take another look at faust tomorrow. Each day brings a little more information about the kids.

[MiX]

Space:

Very simply, MiX went out of his way to say “This is my case on Joth for tomorrow”. There’s nothing wrong with a player, especially a town player, laying out a case on a different player he thinks is scum heading into deadline when he doesn’t even know if he’ll be alive tomorrow to make the case.

The point is, MiX acknowledged that it was too close to deadline to matter, and voted for now-confirmed scum instead, recognizing the wagon needed to be consolidated onto EFHW. I really don’t see what you think is scummy about this? Had EFHW flipped town, MiX would be pushing Joth today based on his case from yesterday. EFHW flipping scum however, points overwhelmingly towards town!joth and thus MiX is acknowledging the case was probably wrong. I see no incentive for scum!MiX to have wasted his time putting together that case knowing EFHW was about to flip scum.

Best. IC.

[MiX]

Lastly, why on earth are you asserting that I seem to think that EFHW couldn't have flipped town at the EoD anyway? Would you feel your Joth case was suddenly great if she'd flipped town? As I pointed out back at #1018, there's nothing tying EFHW and Joth together in terms of alignment in your case, so I don't see how EFHW's flip affects how good or bad you might feel your case is, and if my reasoning is coming from a place of knowing she flipped scum, that's because I know she flipped scum, and I'm scumreading you for your behaviour in the run-up to that flip.

Surely town would've known that I made the case not knowing EFHW's alignment, and thus "for tomorrow" means "if EFHW flips town". I'm not pursuing joth because a scum flip's more important for reads than a D1 case.

[jotheonah]

I’m actually pretty convinced we’re dealing with town!MiX right now, FWIW.

[WestCoastDidds]

Gone a bit back and forth on this, but it probably doesn't hurt, it will stop us wasting time suspecting me, and I partially slipped something anyways.

I released a harnessed child tonight.

This is why one of them was set free.

Do you care to expound on this?

Not really. Is there anything in particular that you need to know?

And by tonight, you mean N1?

[faust]

And by tonight, you mean N1?

Yes.

[Glooble]

I find it strange the amount of like “compatibility” there seems to be between so many players in regards to the wording of their roles and opening QTs. I could be bias because i got like none of this info in mine... but because i didn’t... the fact that so many people seem to  have so much coordinating info.... kind of makes me skeptical of all the info.

I believe the kid mechanic, mainly because it makes sense (and Galz is IC)
Not 100% on glooble/mix at all
Still deciding about Faust

Just to clarify: there’s nothing in my role pm that implies that MiX is town. Nothing that suggests the existence of a second town-aligned skitter.

That is actually a super useful clarification.. not the vibe i was getting.
You do think MiX is town though correct? Or am i making that up in my memory?

Currently leaning that way.

[jotheonah]

Hey Galz, that Part 2 coming in today?

Here's where I am on a quick PoE/pops quiz thingie

1. faust -- still leaning scum, but probably not happening today
2. Awaclus -- remarkably townie
3. jotheonah -- hi, I'm town
4. Galzria -- IC
5. WCD -- leaning town, but persuadable
6. pps -- null, reread would be helpful
7. Datswan -- null, reread would be helpful
8. ADK -- null, reread would be helpful
9. MiX -- town I guess
10. EFHW -- dead scum
11. SpaceAnemone -- scummy vibes
12. Glooble -- leaning town, but persuadable
13. Uncleeurope -- very possibly scum
14. 2.7 -- towniest thing is the EFHW hammer, but I wish he'd stop reminding us about it
15. shraeye -- town
16. pubby -- leaning town

So I guess my scum pool is faust, Space, and Eddie, with e, ADK, Swan and pps as worthy of an additional look, and Glooble, WCD, and pubby as longshot possibilities.

I keep putting off my reread and then it gets more and more daunting. When's deadline?

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth, why do you have Shraeye as town?

[jotheonah]

Joth, why do you have Shraeye as town?

I've been reading shraeye as super townie all game. Do you think he's not?

[Galzria]

Yes yes yes - I’ll get that out today. Super pinky promise!

[2.71828.....]

14. 2.7 -- towniest thing is the EFHW hammer, but I wish he'd stop reminding us about it

Not actually true, I haven't mentioned it myself since the first IRL day of D2. I have talked about the wagon being townie though and lynching off wagon

[2.71828.....]

I guess I just haven't contributed much today though, so that is all you remember

[shraeye]

I’m actually pretty convinced we’re dealing with town!MiX right now, FWIW.

I would second that

[shraeye]

Hey, am I getting scum-read for being British??

On weekdays I might check in during work hours (5am-1.30pm forum time roughly), but I'm not doing any serious analysis, and probably not voting unless it's strictly necessary, because I'm generally really busy and working in a shared office where I don't want to set a bad example to junior colleagues. I admit this is more strict than it was a year or two back, but I have soooo much work to do these days.

Work is usually followed by a few hours of being out and about doing stuff (tonight was dinner, choir rehearsal, post-choir drinks), so any real posting I do is likely to be in the 23:00-00:30 window (6pm-7.30pm forum time). Go back and read any game of mine in the last couple of years, and you're likely to see the same sort of pattern.

#strawman

So here's the deal with Spac's lateness.  It's perfectly 100% ok to be on a delay, unlikely that anybody disagrees.  I've been super late this game.

The problem is that Space is coming in late and it feels like they are either echoing other people's analyses, or just chiming in to say where they stand.  This type of "reaction" is the easiest thing to keep churning out as scum, just choosing a side in already discussed issues.

My issue, and the thing that Space 150% skipped responding to, is a lack of proactive-ness.

Space is best Lynch today, let's see those votes.

[pubby]

Joth, why do you have Shraeye as town?

I've been reading shraeye as super townie all game. Do you think he's not?

He didn't hop on the EFHW wagon (I did't either though) and some of his reads have been off in retrospective. Personally I have him in the "leaning town" group rather than "town".

[faust]

1. faust -- still leaning scum, but probably not happening today

Didn't you promise a case on me? I'm still waiting.

[jotheonah]

1. faust -- still leaning scum, but probably not happening today

Didn't you promise a case on me? I'm still waiting.

I'm not sure it's a good use of resources, because people, including the IC, have decided that your claim is good enough for a day pass and I don't think my case is gonna be strong enough to overcome that. I'd rather find your partner and really open up both barrels on them. If you don't mind.

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth, why do you have Shraeye as town?

I've been reading shraeye as super townie all game. Do you think he's not?

I didn’t find his D1 especially townie, especially his votes since they were mostly for me and not anywhere near EFHW. More towny today, but still just in a leaning category. I’m not seeing what has him in the clear for you.

PPE: Agree with pubby

[WestCoastDidds]

I apologize for playing sporadically, folks. We have houseguests this week and one of them is a 4 year old ninja so I have half finished messages on devices left on a number of different devices thrown to the side from when I jump up to put out the next fire.

Eddie, why PPS?

Awa, is there something more than “who knows?” to be said about Eddie?

[jotheonah]

Hey EFHW, you seem to be scumreading Galzria, but you're not voting. Want to make a wagon?

This is a pretty good faust case all by itself. What a partner call.

[jotheonah]

No one! But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW. Who wants to make a grand Glooble case?

Look at the vote count. This is not going anywhere unless you give some reason for why we should vote EFHW. And if you're not prepared to do that, please put your vote somewhere more useful.

this one too.

[jotheonah]

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

Not only did e hammer EFHW, but e really threw himself at trying to stop the MiX wagon. So if we assume MiX = town, we have e doing some very towny things.

But, maybe they're too towny. I mean this level of sureness about MiX, and the hammer. e almost feels more like scum aggressively playing for town points than town. is that crazy?

[jotheonah]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

This is a slight point in shraeye's favor. If you were scum and someone was giving your partner town points, even for what you consider to be bad reasons, would you question it? I think probably not but YMMV.

[jotheonah]

Apologies for not being around for last 2 days. I don't even have a good excuse, I just did not have the opportunity to get into the game. I have now caught up.

1) The main thing I noticed upon doing my catch up is that the Mix wagon has had like 2 potential counters [Galz and E]. Both Galz and E find MiX too towny to vote for. While there is like a 0% chance we just stumbled on the skum team day 1, it is at least notable that MiX doesn't seem to be inclined to lynch Galz or E (only viable counters) as well as Galz and E both don't seem inclined to lynch MiX. That is just suspicious from every angle.... but also, again, they probably are not all skum. Makes me a little suspicious of MiX if anything.

2) Everything regarding the Galz and Pubby stuff is ridiculous imo. Pubby because it is NAI. Galz because they were responding with the PR stuff to a direct question. They didn't just go and do the work for some random reason.

3) Everything regarding the L-1 situation is a little odd. I can totally see someone messing that up - so if anything, the skummy people are the ones that were trying to paint those players as skummy.



I find the trio of Mix,E,Galz strange - so for now Vote:Mix

The timing of this vote is scummy. It's extra scummy if e is scum. But this is the vote that sort of gets the MiX wagon going again, and it's Swan's first vote of the whole day, but it's not based on much for all that.

[jotheonah]

A few people think MiX is town. Does anyone think e is town?

I will be clear and say I think MiX is scum. I am voting e because we did the wagon switcharoo thingy and reaction surrounding that is super useful. I am not opposed to an e Lynch but I would prefer a mixed lynch (shaken, not stirred).

Now that is on the table I will Vote: MiX.

this is kinda the same as the Swan vote in terms of scumminess

[jotheonah]

e could be white knighting. I don't want to go without placing a helpful vote, so

vote: e

But I'll have a chance to change it tomorrow if Galz wagon gets more support.

This ... makes e seem much townier. Kind of a dangerous place for scum!EFHW to bus when there was a perfectly good MiX wagon brewing.

[jotheonah]

unvote


I am still fine with my MiX vote. But out of respect of MiX's request to avoid a quickhammer as they have info they would like to share, I am un voting to make sure that happens.


MiX - what is it you wanted to get out?

this is actually also scummy if Swan and PPS are partners. Swan wanted to give the wagon a push, but doesn't actually want to end up on it when wagon analyses are done.

[jotheonah]

Oh I have pps' "fakeclaim": that's actually my real role.

I should put more PPEs...

pps's fakeclaim?

Ok, I see it.  At least we got to this with time to find someone else. unvote. I was voting e because he wasn't MiX.

Again though, the scummy unvote here. I don't think EFHW does this if e is town...

[jotheonah]

(sorry about all these short posts. I'm doing a reread and working on a bigger thing, but then I kept having quick observations and it sort of turned into a stream of consciousness thing)

[jotheonah]

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

I have to admit that if this is scum!faust it's pretty dang ballsy. But we all remember what comes later, when he jumps off the wagon at the last minute. Still, in the interest of a fair analysis, this was definitely a thing that happened.

[jotheonah]

I have already said too much. There is additional information which will probably be safe to reveal on day two, I think we should hold off lynching MiX until then.

is this additional information, in fact, safe to reveal now that it's Day 2?

[jotheonah]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

this post doesn't look great for Glooble

[jotheonah]

EFHW:
1. No thanks to that wagon
2. I don't like the appeal to emotion
3.

Why EFHW, again?

I think that, regardless of MiX's alignment (but I'm pretty sure he's town), not all scum were voting for him. So I singled out people who weren't voting for him (EFHW, e, gkrieg, and maybe you want to include me if you disregard my early-game vote). I think there's scum here, I think e has been kind of townie and anyway the other two in the group are on the e wagon. I'm voting for EFHW because I think she has done distancing to the MiX wagon to appear townie rather than because she wanted to prevent his lynch.

Faust's reason to consider EFHW, e, gkrieg is taken from a "regardless of Mix's alignment" perspective but the reason for picking EFHW is not.  I'm with Glooble here:

We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

same with shraeye. I know I'm townreading these two, but with EFHW VLA during her lynch, we should be looking at who tried to stop it.

[jotheonah]

Can I interest anyone else in the pingpongsam wagon? I think his pushing the MiX lynch in spite of the claim -- and his disingenuous characterization of the rest of the town as ICing MiX rather than merely delaying his lynch  -- add up to scum trying to push us into lynching either a PR or, more likely, a troublesome 3rd party.

vote: pingpongsam

and I guess prooobbbabbbblllyyy I need to admit that a third party observer who didn't know how townie I am would have to put me in that bucket also

[jotheonah]

To everyone who is like "I'm not comfortable with the EFHW wagon" - what you really need to do is make a case on someone else. It's easy to criticize any case, but it's pretty pointless if you can't make a better one.

if we are going with the theory that faust started the EFHW wagon but didn't expect it to succeed, you can read this as a plea to someone else to divert it

also, ADK also jumped off the EFHW wagon when it got serious.

[jotheonah]

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

And then of course, here is faust's big attempt to kill his own wagon on scum. (after jumping his vote to me to join ADK)

[jotheonah]

Such an adversarial stance, faust. Now that I'm following your thought process I agree with you.

Sorry, I didn't intend for it to come across this way.

What are your feelings about joth by the way?

casual but despearate plea for more people to join the joth wagon, his antidote to the EFHW wagon

[MiX]

Joth is town.

Carry on.

[Awaclus]

Joth is town.

[citation needed]

[jotheonah]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

I would prefer not to have to make that choice.

But in the end, I lynch EFHW when given that choice D1.

e tried real hard not to be the hammer

[jotheonah]

e, if your only options were no lynch of EFHW, which would you pick?

What about you when given that choice?

Honestly can't decide. Leaning towards the lynch.

so did Glooble

[jotheonah]

So is everyone derailing every wagon at the same time? This makes me want to lynch EFHW even more!

Rereading is hard, but I'll be here around deadline, so maybe I can move somewhere useful?

MiX is town

[jotheonah]

EFHW would be okay with me, better than Joth, I think.

In a dream world we would take a closer look at ADK (who people refuse to talk about) or WCD (who people are extremely mixed on). And Space, but I always suspect Space for whatever reason.

And Awaclus, because Awaclus. Has he announced having less time? He seems quieter than usual, which is significant.

Eddie is town.

[jotheonah]

I re-read Galz, and I feel like he's both not been supportive of some stuff that seems very sensible to me (e.g. being critical of faust at #264, and also complaining about faust correcting Swan at #367), and also that he's generally more aware of the wagons and voting that maybe faust gave him credit for at the point faust discounted Galz from his lynchpool based on the intent to hammer MiX.. which means I think he really should be someone faust considered at the same time as he started up the EFHW wagon.

Vote: Galz

Space can be in the "tried to stop the EFHW lynch" club

[jotheonah]

Vote: Joth

I spoke too soon

[jotheonah]

Ok, I'm done rereading day 1. Here's a list of every vote:

82: Mix votes joth
97: ADK votes gkrieg
98: e votes ADK
99: faust votes ADK
117: MiX votes pubby
127: faust votes pubby
129: MiX unvotes pubby
130: Awaclus votes MiX
131: MiX votes Awaclus
132: pubby votes MiX

133: faust votes MiX
157: faust votes Swan
168: ADK votes Space
169: MiX votes Space
172: e votes pubby
203: MiX votes Awaclus
206: pubby votes Awaclus
216: joth votes Awaclus
218: Galz votes MiX
221: MiX votes Galzria
226: joth unvotes Awaclus
248: ADK votes MiX
249: WCD votes MiX
250: Glooble votes MiX
255: ADK votes WCD
263: faust votes Galzria
264: Galzria votes faust
269: pubby votes MiX
275: pps votes MiX
292: Space votes MiX
293: joth votes Space
313: Glooble unvotes MiX
314: ADK votes e
333: Glooble votes pps
338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW
348: gkrieg votes e
350: EFHW votes Galzria
353: Awaclus votes Galzria
357: Galzria votes Swan
371: joth votes MiX
375: Awaclus votes MiX
376: MiX votes Awaclus
384: Glooble votes MiX
390: e votes Galzria
397: e votes Space
405: ADK votes Galz
409: Galz votes e
410: pps votes e
413: ADK votes e
414: e votes ADK
417: MiX votes Galz
419: MiX votes Awaclus
432: e unvotes ADK
465: joth votes e
467: faust votes joth
469: Swan votes MiX
486: pps votes MiX
495: EFHW votes e
502: ADK votes MiX
503: Swan unvotes MiX
504: Galz votes Swan
526: Shraeye votes MiX
534: Joth votes Swan
544: MiX votes gkrieg
545: faust votes gkrieg
—the MiX claim—
550: faust votes joth
561: ADK unvotes MiX
564: faust votes EFHW
567: Awaclus votes e
589: EFHW unvotes e
594: Space unvotes MiX
605: Glooble votes EFHW
608: MiX votes EFHW
612: pps votes EFHW
621: EFHW votes Galzria
623: pubby unvotes MiX
632: ADK votes EFHW
635: joth votes PPS
636: pubby votes WCD
642: e votes. gkrieg
643: Galz votes EFHW
652: Glooble votes pubby
680: Glooble votes EFHW
691: joth votes EFHW
697: Glooble votes Galzria
702: faust votes joth
704: faust votes EFHW
711: shraeye votes for WCD
713: joth votes pps
719: pubby votes MiX
722: WCD votes EFHW
733: ADK votes joth
738: Swan votes EFHW
741: Awaclus votes EFHW
746: faust votes joth
747: joth votes EFHW
759: Eddie (gkrieg) votes e
812: pps votes faust
813: e votes Galz
816: e votes Swan
825: pubby votes Galzria
830: Mix votes joth
840: shraeye votes MiX
843: MiX votes EFHW
845: Space votes Galz
851: joth votes no lynch
852: joth votes faust
853: joth votes EFHW
856: Eddie votes Galz
858: pubby votes WCD
878: MiX votes Galz
884: MiX votes EFHW
885: MiX votes joth
887: Eddie votes joth
893: Space votes EFHW
894: Glooble votes EFHW
896: MiX votes EFHW
898: e hammers EFHW like a minute before deadline

I was going to turn this into some kind of analysis but man I've already spent a lot of time doing this and I gotta go do other things. Here's where I'm at after a reread:

1) still pretty into the faust 3D chess theory. Yes he started the EFHW wagon, but he tried way harder to stop it.
2) Space, Glooble, MiX, myself, and e all tried to stop it at various points but then in the end when the chips were down and we needed a lynch they/we got on board. I actually, ultimately, don't think you find scum here. It was too easy just to not show up, and then maybe the lynch doesn't happen. I guess we can throw Swan in that camp too.
3) Eddie, pubby, ADK, faust, these are the people who tried hardest to stop the wagon and ended off wagon.

vote: faust Faust is a very good player, but also a fancy player. Yesterday, he got too fancy. It happens.

[MiX]

338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW

This right here is indisputable evidence of joth's townieness, and anyone trying to say otherwise is scum.

[jotheonah]

shraeye also goes on the scumspect list. which reverses my earlier scumread.

Didds comes out of day 1 looking pristinely towny.

[MiX]

Oh, yeah, about faust, I get it, but his plan doesn't truly work: although you can say it distances himself from EFHW, it puts immense pressure on both of them after a D1 town flip.

shraeye also goes on the scumspect list. which reverses my earlier scumread.

So is he towny or scummy?

[pubby]

Some more flavor thoughts...

The 3 expected mafia roles are: The Queen, Scorch, and The Monk. The Queen is the all-powerful role (godfather?), while the other two are just henchmen. According to flavor, if the queen dies it's GG.

Seems like we can infer this:

- Whoever is playing the Queen will try their hardest to survive. They'll bus their henchmen if it makes them look towny.
- Whoever is playing the henchmen CANNOT risk starting a wagon on the queen. It's too risky.

Gonna look to see if this affected past voting at all.

[Glooble]

I have already said too much. There is additional information which will probably be safe to reveal on day two, I think we should hold off lynching MiX until then.

is this additional information, in fact, safe to reveal now that it's Day 2?

I already did. It was my flavor name, and the fact that scum would be told it night 2.

[Glooble]

Thanks for all that work joth.

[Uncleeurope]

338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW

This right here is indisputable evidence of joth's townieness, and anyone trying to say otherwise is scum.

I say otherwise.

Still think Joth is town, though.

Just not because of that.

At all.

[jotheonah]

Oh, yeah, about faust, I get it, but his plan doesn't truly work: although you can say it distances himself from EFHW, it puts immense pressure on both of them after a D1 town flip.

shraeye also goes on the scumspect list. which reverses my earlier scumread.

So is he towny or scummy?

Scummish

[MiX]

338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW

This right here is indisputable evidence of joth's townieness, and anyone trying to say otherwise is scum.

I say otherwise.

Vobe: Eddie

Vote: faust, why is your power not just a way that scum spends the harnessed children?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.9:

faust (2): joth, MiX
ADK (2): WCD, Datswan
Uncle (4): faust, ADK, 2.7, Awaclus
MiX (1): Space
Space (2): shraeye, PPS
PPS (1): Uncle

Not Voting (3): Galzria, Glooble, pubby

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[pingpongsam]

I may have to sub out. I was so busy today this game never crossed my mind. I’m sticking to it through this weekend as I should be pretty free then. I’ll be driving tomorrow for a few hours. I feel like an ass as this has normally not been an issue but it was problematic in my last game too.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty impressed with Joth’s work. Was feeling more and more town on MiX today as he came clean about his role but Joth’s analysis sealed the deal, there. I’m still good with my Space vote but would definitely consider Faust as well. Don’t have anything concrete for anyone else, though.

Joth, what would you say about No Lynch today? I have never, ever seen it as a viable option and was taught that even suggesting it was scummy but you made compelling arguments for it yesterday.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Faust

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Faust

[Swowl]

EFHW would be okay with me, better than Joth, I think.

In a dream world we would take a closer look at ADK (who people refuse to talk about) or WCD (who people are extremely mixed on). And Space, but I always suspect Space for whatever reason.

And Awaclus, because Awaclus. Has he announced having less time? He seems quieter than usual, which is significant.

Eddie is town.

Wait what?

Eddie says “EFHW would be ok with me, better than Joth”.
Then Eddie ends the day voting for not EFHW, but instead for Joth.

Like i am actually finding Eddie more towny today than i was previously, but for completely separate reasons.

The post you quoted is more like “i could vote for EFHW... i would do that over Joth... but here are some other options to throw in the pit (space, adk)”.... and then again, ended up on Joth.


Where do you derive “Eddie is town” from this quote?

PPE 1

[WestCoastDidds]

So much work, Joth, thank you.

I’m putting some of your conclusions here so they are easier for me to get back to:

1) still pretty into the faust 3D chess theory. Yes he started the EFHW wagon, but he tried way harder to stop it.
2) Space, Glooble, MiX, myself, and e all tried to stop it at various points but then in the end when the chips were down and we needed a lynch they/we got on board. I actually, ultimately, don't think you find scum here. It was too easy just to not show up, and then maybe the lynch doesn't happen. I guess we can throw Swan in that camp too.
3) Eddie, pubby, ADK, faust, these are the people who tried hardest to stop the wagon and ended off wagon.

shraeye also goes on the scumspect list.

[jotheonah]

EFHW would be okay with me, better than Joth, I think.

In a dream world we would take a closer look at ADK (who people refuse to talk about) or WCD (who people are extremely mixed on). And Space, but I always suspect Space for whatever reason.

And Awaclus, because Awaclus. Has he announced having less time? He seems quieter than usual, which is significant.

Eddie is town.

Wait what?

Eddie says “EFHW would be ok with me, better than Joth”.
Then Eddie ends the day voting for not EFHW, but instead for Joth.

Like i am actually finding Eddie more towny today than i was previously, but for completely separate reasons.

The post you quoted is more like “i could vote for EFHW... i would do that over Joth... but here are some other options to throw in the pit (space, adk)”.... and then again, ended up on Joth.


Where do you derive “Eddie is town” from this quote?

PPE 1

I jumped the gun on that one. Reading on further, Eddie is very possibly not town.

[jotheonah]

Stream of consciousness analysis has downsides!

[Uncleeurope]

Nah, I’m town.

[shraeye]

Joth, why do you have Shraeye as town?

I've been reading shraeye as super townie all game. Do you think he's not?

He didn't hop on the EFHW wagon (I did't either though) and some of his reads have been off in retrospective. Personally I have him in the "leaning town" group rather than "town".

What reads are you talking about in the "retrospectively off" category?

[shraeye]

Stream of consciousness analysis has downsides!

For instance, you correctly found Space suspicious but didn't vote there

[pubby]

Reread some more. EFHW joined the e wagon right before going VLA. Don't see her doing that if e was scum, but 100% don't see her doing that if e was the Queen. e seems super townie to me.

What reads are you talking about in the "retrospectively off" category?

Your reaction to Glooble and WCD early on was funny.

[shraeye]

Bump, pubby

[A Drowned Kernel]

Can I interest anyone else in the pingpongsam wagon? I think his pushing the MiX lynch in spite of the claim -- and his disingenuous characterization of the rest of the town as ICing MiX rather than merely delaying his lynch  -- add up to scum trying to push us into lynching either a PR or, more likely, a troublesome 3rd party.

vote: pingpongsam

and I guess prooobbbabbbblllyyy I need to admit that a third party observer who didn't know how townie I am would have to put me in that bucket also

This is the only post of joth's I didn't like, everything else seemed very towny

[pubby]

Bump, pubby

I already responded I think?

[pubby]

vote: faust

[faust]

Really? Suppose scum!me's plan was to start a wagon on a partner and then derail it once the deadline comes around... why on earth would I choose the partner that has announced VLA leading up to the deadline? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[pubby]

Do you want me to post my case? I was going to wait a few days but I can do it now.

[faust]

338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW

This right here is indisputable evidence of joth's townieness, and anyone trying to say otherwise is scum.

otherwise

[faust]

Do you want me to post my case? I was going to wait a few days but I can do it now.

I don't really care, but I find it curious that you are asking the player you think is scum for play advice.

[Awaclus]

338: MiX votes EFHW (first to do so)
346: MiX unvotes EFHW

This right here is indisputable evidence of joth's townieness, and anyone trying to say otherwise is scum.

otherwise

Vote: faust

[Awaclus]

(but really vote: Eddie)

[faust]

Vote: faust, why is your power not just a way that scum spends the harnessed children?

Read the flavor. Do you think releasing a child and letting them return to their parents is what the evil scum does?

Also, start of D1 flavor was different.

[Uncleeurope]

Hey, Faust, any other opinions other than my evilness you care to present? It makes it hard to agree with everything you say if you just vote me all the time.

[faust]

Hey, Faust, any other opinions other than my evilness you care to present? It makes it hard to agree with everything you say if you just vote me all the time.

I don't really want to give scum a "here's where you should vote if you want to me to follow you" right now. I think your vote on PPS is... not great.

[shraeye]

Bump, pubby

I already responded I think?

So my reaction feeling funny means my read is wrong?  "Retrospectively off" sounds like something you'd say on D4 once you have a lot of flips to analyze.

[Galzria]

Really? Suppose scum!me's plan was to start a wagon on a partner and then derail it once the deadline comes around... why on earth would I choose the partner that has announced VLA leading up to the deadline? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because literally nobody, not even I (who defended and pushed the action anyway), WANTS to lynch a VLA player. What even is this defense?

[shraeye]

Hey, Faust, any other opinions other than my evilness you care to present? It makes it hard to agree with everything you say if you just vote me all the time.

I don't really want to give scum a "here's where you should vote if you want to me to follow you" right now. I think your vote on PPS is... not great.

Not great because you disagree with him about PPS? Or is it specifically about the way/time/beingness of his vote?

[Uncleeurope]

Well, good thing I stopped that, then.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: ADK

[Uncleeurope]

People seem to really like the bucket of me/Faust/ADK

I like it too, with a minor exception... I will vote for either of the other two, though. As is clear, so am I bussing a partner? Or am I the only baddie in the trio?

The other two have planted their vote on me and won’t move it.

Which is extremely scummy.

[faust]

Really? Suppose scum!me's plan was to start a wagon on a partner and then derail it once the deadline comes around... why on earth would I choose the partner that has announced VLA leading up to the deadline? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because literally nobody, not even I (who defended and pushed the action anyway), WANTS to lynch a VLA player. What even is this defense?

Maybe you are not clear about the timetable.

This is when EFHW announces VLA:

I'm going to be v/la Sunday through Sunday. My internet access will be very intermittent. Hopefully I'll be able to check in every couple days or so.

This is when I vote for EFHW, the very Day her VLA starts:

Vote: EFHW

The EFHW wagon gets some support, and then EFHW has to leave:

This is awkward, but my limited access is starting in like half an hour. I feel like faust's groupings of people is super arbitrary and everything he is saying about me applies to him just as well.

vote:Galzria

So, if my plan was to get an EFHW wagon and then derail it, it is necessary that I convince people it is a good idea to lynch a VLA player - otherwise there won't be a wagon to begin with. But if I do that, and then want to get some movement somewhere else, then it would be super hurtful if EFHW isn't around to defend herself. This is just terrible planning, if I ever wanted to do something like that I would make sure to pick a player who can react.

Second, what even is the benefit of this whole thing, if you assume that I am scum with EFHW? Best case: EFHW gets a wagon, it gets derailed by me, a townie is lynched. What is the result? EFHW looks scummy for having avoided the lynch in favor of a townie, and I look scummy for having enabled a town lynch. I don't get why people think scum!me would do that... there's nothing to gain.

[faust]

The other two have planted their vote on me and won’t move it.

Which is extremely scummy.

Why is that extremely scummy?

[faust]

Hey, Faust, any other opinions other than my evilness you care to present? It makes it hard to agree with everything you say if you just vote me all the time.

I don't really want to give scum a "here's where you should vote if you want to me to follow you" right now. I think your vote on PPS is... not great.

Not great because you disagree with him about PPS? Or is it specifically about the way/time/beingness of his vote?

I don't particularly think PPS is scum, and the vote has no substance to it and goes against what I perceive is Eddie's top scumread, so both.

[Galzria]

Really? Suppose scum!me's plan was to start a wagon on a partner and then derail it once the deadline comes around... why on earth would I choose the partner that has announced VLA leading up to the deadline? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because literally nobody, not even I (who defended and pushed the action anyway), WANTS to lynch a VLA player. What even is this defense?

Maybe you are not clear about the timetable.

This is when EFHW announces VLA:

I'm going to be v/la Sunday through Sunday. My internet access will be very intermittent. Hopefully I'll be able to check in every couple days or so.

This is when I vote for EFHW, the very Day her VLA starts:

Vote: EFHW

The EFHW wagon gets some support, and then EFHW has to leave:

This is awkward, but my limited access is starting in like half an hour. I feel like faust's groupings of people is super arbitrary and everything he is saying about me applies to him just as well.

vote:Galzria

So, if my plan was to get an EFHW wagon and then derail it, it is necessary that I convince people it is a good idea to lynch a VLA player - otherwise there won't be a wagon to begin with. But if I do that, and then want to get some movement somewhere else, then it would be super hurtful if EFHW isn't around to defend herself. This is just terrible planning, if I ever wanted to do something like that I would make sure to pick a player who can react.

Second, what even is the benefit of this whole thing, if you assume that I am scum with EFHW? Best case: EFHW gets a wagon, it gets derailed by me, a townie is lynched. What is the result? EFHW looks scummy for having avoided the lynch in favor of a townie, and I look scummy for having enabled a town lynch. I don't get why people think scum!me would do that... there's nothing to gain.

EFHW being VLA is a far better defense for her than anything she could offer by being here. It almost worked to push a no-lynch through as you yourself (along with a number of other people) stated a preference for No-Lynch over lynching a VLA player.

And I can count on one hand the number of times where a "got away" Day 1 lynch is the default lynch of Day 2 - so claiming that it would all lead to your downfall and ruin is nothing more than ATE.

[faust]

EFHW being VLA is a far better defense for her than anything she could offer by being here. It almost worked to push a no-lynch through as you yourself (along with a number of other people) stated a preference for No-Lynch over lynching a VLA player.

I did not state a preference for no lynch over lynching a VLA player. I stated a preference for no lynch over lynching EFHW specifically. It had nothing to do with her VLA-ness. And all this is bullshit. People were already voting for her, her being VLA didn't prevent that. You're not even trying to think about what I'm saying, just riding out your bias.

And I can count on one hand the number of times where a "got away" Day 1 lynch is the default lynch of Day 2 - so claiming that it would all lead to your downfall and ruin is nothing more than ATE.

Still, what is the benefit?

[Galzria]

Town #1: Joth
- First and foremost, he's been playing crazy hard into his town meta all game. Scum!Joth is much more subtle than this, and I've been saying it since D1.

I know you have, and I have townread joth for the exact same reason in M120. He was scum. So I don't accept that as a town tell.

You don't have to accept it. That's up to you. Doesn't change the fact that he's town.

If Joth doesn't come back to the EFHW wagon, that wagon doesn't happen.

I really don't like this line of reasoning. First of all, who knows? Eddie said he was around to vote, so one vote less wouldn't have killed the wagon. Second, even if it were true, scum had no way of knowing it at the time. It could just as easily be a decision of being off-wagon for a scum lynch vs being on wagon. Voting EFHW is the minimax strategy for scum there.

What a player says and what a player does are two separate things. It's awfully easy to say "Oh yeah, I was there and would've hammered" after the fact. There was absolutely no guarantee, and in fact a very high likelihood, that EFHW's lynch wasn't going through given the number of people online and who had stated they would take a no-lynch over an EFHW lynch (see: yourself).

Awaclus:
- There isn't a whole lot to be said here. Awaclus could've just as easily stayed off of the EFHW wagon as gotten on, and nobody would've bothered to criticize him for it, because it's Awaclus.

Like... what? Awaclus isn't immune to wagon analysis, and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. Of course he would have looked scummy if he was off the scum lynch.

Meh, I disagree. Well, at least that he would look any more scummy than anybody else that wasn't on the lynch.

[Galzria]

EFHW being VLA is a far better defense for her than anything she could offer by being here. It almost worked to push a no-lynch through as you yourself (along with a number of other people) stated a preference for No-Lynch over lynching a VLA player.

I did not state a preference for no lynch over lynching a VLA player. I stated a preference for no lynch over lynching EFHW specifically. It had nothing to do with her VLA-ness. And all this is bullshit. People were already voting for her, her being VLA didn't prevent that. You're not even trying to think about what I'm saying, just riding out your bias.

And I can count on one hand the number of times where a "got away" Day 1 lynch is the default lynch of Day 2 - so claiming that it would all lead to your downfall and ruin is nothing more than ATE.

Still, what is the benefit?

Bias has nothing to do with it. You tried harder than literally any other player to derail a scum lynch. End of story. Doesn't make you scum, it's simply a fact. The benefit however, if you're scum, is exactly the argument that you tried to make initially to derail EFHW's wagon:

"Her wagon was too easy, and nobody made any effort to derail it, ergo EFHW is town"

The whole point, if you're EFHW's partner, in building a wagon to then derail it, is to make everybody feel like EFHW must be town, something you attempted to do seamlessly.

[faust]

"Her wagon was too easy, and nobody made any effort to derail it, ergo EFHW is town"

The whole point, if you're EFHW's partner, in building a wagon to then derail it, is to make everybody feel like EFHW must be town, something you attempted to do seamlessly.

But nobody was suspecting EFHW in the first place.

[Galzria]

"Her wagon was too easy, and nobody made any effort to derail it, ergo EFHW is town"

The whole point, if you're EFHW's partner, in building a wagon to then derail it, is to make everybody feel like EFHW must be town, something you attempted to do seamlessly.

But nobody was suspecting EFHW in the first place.

I was, although I hadn't posted about it. Fair, you couldn't know that however.

Either way, that's not really the point. I mean, hell, as a scum partner, isn't the best of times to start some bussing is when there isn't much suspicion already? That's the least likely to lead anywhere dangerous as a team, and can be pointed back to in the future if needed.

[pubby]

Here's my case: EFHW-faust-MiX scum team, with faust as the Monk and MiX as the Espheni Queen. I'm going to assume the Espheni Queen is super important and could lose scum the game if she dies. For that reason, scum will try hard to protect her, or rather, EFHW and faust will try hard to protect MiX.

Both faust's and EFHW's early behavior was to prevent a MiX lynch. faust started the EFHW wagon to pull votes off of MiX, thinking there was no chance EFHW would actually die. When he realized the wagon was working, he panicked.

MiX on the other hand has played along with both of them, but in particular faust, by following his every command. It's worth looking at post-by-post.

Shall we begin? I'll underline key points.

* MiX wagon starts up.

* Neither faust nor EFHW supports the MiX wagon. EFHW is one of the few people defending MiX. faust has a singular vote on MiX very early, which he promptly changes and starts defending MiX too.

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

* His attitude is further reflected when MiX reaches L-1, where faust gives this comment:

What is this BS?

I'd feel the same way if my scum team lost the game d1 too.

* MiX had poked faust a few days prior with a weak scum-read, but gets defensive when asked about it:

Are you serious? No I don't put random pressure on faust as scum, it's absolutely pointless! I sheep, buddy and sheep him again! Think about this wagon for a second before you resume it, please.

(Checks votes) 5 votes? You guys never fail me. Great streak I have, getting a sizeable wagon every D1, even when I don't want to.

PPE 2: What faust said.

I find this post suspicious.

* Once the MiX wagon picks up steam EFHW frantically asks for a vote count. Because remember: if the Queen dies, scum is fucked.

vote count please!

EFHW had no intention of lynching MiX d1 and never voted for him once. She defended him. So why did she, a member of scum, ask for a vote count? It sounds like she was concerned about her Queen.

* As MiX picks up more and more votes, faust realizes things are going south and that his Queen is on the verge of getting lynched. He asks his partner for help starting a new wagon so that MiX can be saved:

Hey EFHW, you seem to be scumreading Galzria, but you're not voting. Want to make a wagon?

This comment is key - it's a partner tell between the two. But EFHW denies him because it would make the two of them look bad.

* MiX tries to jump on EFHW just how he tried to jump on faust - two people that are defending him. He's nervous and trying to make himself look better by voting for his partners.

But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW.

*  faust responds telling him not to:

Look at the vote count. This is not going anywhere unless you give some reason for why we should vote EFHW. And if you're not prepared to do that, please put your vote somewhere more useful.

* MiX listens to buddy faust and immediately unvotes 2 minutes later. Remember when MiX was suspicious of faust only a few pages earlier? Why is he doing what faust says?

Unvote

* Faust replies a minute later:

It's not like unvoting is going to improve the situation.

Why does faust think the game is in a bad situation? What does he care?

* Eventually, MiX claims:

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

* Only 2 minutes later, coach faust replies fast with this comment:

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

How did he realize "Leader" = "Skitter" so quickly?? Remember: faust claimed he was not familiar with the flavor. Did he really notice MiX's post, jump on the wiki, search, think about what to ask, and then ask it in 108 seconds? Or did he already know MiX's fake claim?? What's more likely here?

BTW, note that Googling "Falling Skies Leader" does NOT return results for Skitters.

* Here's the post where faust says he doesn't know the flavor:

I don't know the flavor at all.

* Anyway, the next two posts are funny:

I am. What gave it away, the Leader part?

I'd rather not say.

Keep in mind that Glooble - an actual skitter leader - has no QT knowledge of other Skitters. So why would faust? It's laughable. faust should have just said, yeah man, I got it from the "leader" part.

* faust starts a wagon on EFHW to pull votes off MiX and distance himself from her:

Vote: EFHW

Note that e was being wagoned for the very same reason, with EFHW voting for him. If faust was town and believed in his own argument, he'd hop on the e wagon too. Instead, he started a wagon on his partner to distance himself from her.

* faust's argument against EFHW gets questioned because he didn't vote for MiX either. He reminds everyone he voted for MiX too... once!

I did vote for MiX early, which is why I didn't put myself in that group.

* Weirdest post of the whole thread happens, with faust hastily trying to draw votes off MiX:

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

* MiX listens to coach faust immediately, not understanding the plan:

Okay? I'll hold you to this promise.

Vote: EFHW

* Soon the EFHW wagon picks up steam. faust panics and tries to abort:

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

* faust becomes increasingly panicked and has several posts trying to convince others to abandon ship. But when he changes his vote, there's no case behind it. He doesn't talk about joth. It's just an empty post.

Vote: joth

* MiX is convinced by coach faust to join him on a joth wagon:

So is everyone derailing every wagon at the same time? This makes me want to lynch EFHW even more!

Rereading is hard, but I'll be here around deadline, so maybe I can move somewhere useful?

joth.

Reeeeeeally? Fiiiiiiine.

Vote: joth, but it's mostly because everyone's derailing the EFHW wagon.

* But soon MiX puts his vote back on EFHW:

Great wagons all around. Realistical wagons: Galzria/EFHW/joth. Wagons I'm willing to support: EFHW/joth. Vote untill I wake up:

Vote: EFHW

I do understand faust's theory, but what can scum do about EFHW? Maybe they thought it would die down or something, any movement is scummy when she flips scum.

Yes, any movement off EFHW appears scummy when she flips scum. That's what he was thinking when he threw EFHW back under the bus. But how did he know EFHW was going to flip scum?

Like WHAT?? Why did he say EFHW was going to flip scum?? Read his post. He said EFHW will flip scum.

* The next morning he wakes up to make this post:

Hello, I'm here. I see that joth has stopped being a wagon and Galz is obviously town? Yeah I want EFHW lynched today.

Seriously, Galz is towny enough to not be the D1 lynch, get that out of your heads people. Whereas EFHW hasn't done anything spectacular.

* Coach faust replies to him:

I am not a big fan of the Galz wagon either, but I would prefer it over EFHW.

* He listens to coach faust yet again despite himself admitting Galz is town:

Well, we're lynching town. Thus is D1.

Vote: Galz, EFHW's not really diverging from her town meta.

This post makes no sense. He said earlier EFHW would flip scum, but now he's voting for someone he thinks is town?

* Ultimately MiX changes his vote back because his master plan requires a lynch... for "IC" reasons. His post contained a lot of scum speculation on joth and - the person faust had been trying to frame - but I am snipping it out for brevity.

Vote: EFHW

* EFHW flips scum

* Next day faust and MiX have this little interaction:

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

It's always the town that are the most dissappointing.

What a strange thing for both of them to say. Shouldn't they be suspicious of us 3? Why are they acting like we're all town?

* More little interactions I found interesting:

Does someone who has flavor knowledge have any idea what having a headache might indicate?

Do you have it?

Asking for a friend.

* Even more interactions:

Yes, all the way to "if when the night falls" part

Please be careful with quoting mod-provided info, I don't want you modkilled. This one's probably fine because it's in the OP.

I double-checked that before posting it, don't worry.

Hey, townslip! Plz don't modkill me ash.

-

MiX claims he has the best role in the game, and that he absorbs powers of people that die. Hmmm... Does that sound like a Skitter ability? Or does that sound like the ability of the all-powerful Queen who's known in the show for enslaving and stealing peoples bodies?

There's absolutely nothing hinting towards Paint Face being a universal backup on the Falling Skies wiki. If anything, he'd be some type of investigative role. Or just a backup to Glooble's ability, but he claims that's not the case and neither him nor Glooble know about each other.

MiX's plan from the start was to copy someone's ability, then use this to "IC" himself. He said it in the beginning: he needs a lynch d1 to show he's town and is willing to lynch a townie to make it happen. But why? Why would a townie be so insistant on proving themself? To me, only scum plays that way.

To answer your final question:

Really? Suppose scum!me's plan was to start a wagon on a partner and then derail it once the deadline comes around... why on earth would I choose the partner that has announced VLA leading up to the deadline? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Because the leading wagon was Queen MiX, and the only other wagon was e, which EFHW had just jumped on. You did not expect the EFHW wagon to take off, you just hoped it would pull a few votes off of MiX and fail. In the process, you would have distanced your connection to EFHW. If you believed you had a good/reasonable case against EFHW you wouldn't have offered people personal thank you letters for joining you. Unfortunately the wagon worked and you panicked.

[Galzria]

"Her wagon was too easy, and nobody made any effort to derail it, ergo EFHW is town"

The whole point, if you're EFHW's partner, in building a wagon to then derail it, is to make everybody feel like EFHW must be town, something you attempted to do seamlessly.

But nobody was suspecting EFHW in the first place.

I was, although I hadn't posted about it. Fair, you couldn't know that however.

Either way, that's not really the point. I mean, hell, as a scum partner, isn't the best of times to start some bussing is when there isn't much suspicion already? That's the least likely to lead anywhere dangerous as a team, and can be pointed back to in the future if needed.

I mean, you can't exactly make a case on a partner and then go "Oh no guys, please don't vote with me! My case is horrible!". But you didn't exactly bother to really push and support your case either - instead you offered "Post-Game Thank You PM's" for coming on board.... which, boy, when you think about it, is a great starter piece for a future case against anybody that joined just for those PM's, no?

[faust]

"Her wagon was too easy, and nobody made any effort to derail it, ergo EFHW is town"

The whole point, if you're EFHW's partner, in building a wagon to then derail it, is to make everybody feel like EFHW must be town, something you attempted to do seamlessly.

But nobody was suspecting EFHW in the first place.

I was, although I hadn't posted about it. Fair, you couldn't know that however.

Either way, that's not really the point. I mean, hell, as a scum partner, isn't the best of times to start some bussing is when there isn't much suspicion already? That's the least likely to lead anywhere dangerous as a team, and can be pointed back to in the future if needed.

So was I or wasn't I trying to create an EFHW wagon? I feel like your narrative changes whenever it suits you.

[MiX]

@pubby, read any game I've played with faust: I buddy him regardless of alignment. I don't really need to disprove any other points in your theory, just this.

Great analysis, however, some of those points are still good, I'll try to isolate them next post.

[faust]

Here's my case: EFHW-faust-MiX scum team, with faust as the Monk and MiX as the Espheni Queen. I'm going to assume the Espheni Queen is super important and could lose scum the game if she dies. For that reason, scum will try hard to protect her, or rather, EFHW and faust will try hard to protect MiX.

Well, I am not sure how likely it is that we have an Espheni Queen mechanic here. I mean, it makes sense flavor-wise, but it seems like a singularly bad game design choice. Maybe ash found a way to make it work, but I would certainly shy away from something that could end the game on D1.

Both faust's and EFHW's early behavior was to prevent a MiX lynch. faust started the EFHW wagon to pull votes off of MiX, thinking there was no chance EFHW would actually die. When he realized the wagon was working, he panicked.

MiX on the other hand has played along with both of them, but in particular faust, by following his every command. It's worth looking at post-by-post.

At least that theory is more sensible than the "3D chess" stuff. It still has holes, like why would MiX tie himself to me so strongly when he does not want to be associated with the other scum?

Then a lot of this post is like more starting out with a narrative and trying to find things to support it rather than objective reading. Which, okay I guess, you're making a case, but a lot of things in there are big stretches, like EFHW asking for a vote count being an indication of anything.

* As MiX picks up more and more votes, faust realizes things are going south and that his Queen is on the verge of getting lynched. He asks his partner for help starting a new wagon so that MiX can be saved:

Hey EFHW, you seem to be scumreading Galzria, but you're not voting. Want to make a wagon?

This comment is key - it's a partner tell between the two. But EFHW denies him because it would make the two of them look bad.

* MiX tries to jump on EFHW just how he tried to jump on faust - two people that are defending him. He's nervous and trying to make himself look better by voting for his partners.

But EFHW needs some heat.

Vote: EFHW.

*  faust responds telling him not to:

Look at the vote count. This is not going anywhere unless you give some reason for why we should vote EFHW. And if you're not prepared to do that, please put your vote somewhere more useful.

So I want MiX to not vote EFHW but later do that exact thing myself?

* Only 2 minutes later, coach faust replies fast with this comment:

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

How did he realize "Leader" = "Skitter" so quickly?? Remember: faust claimed he was not familiar with the flavor. Did he really notice MiX's post, jump on the wiki, search, think about what to ask, and then ask it in 108 seconds? Or did he already know MiX's fake claim?? What's more likely here?

It's a good question to ask, but unfortunately your answer is not the right one.

* Soon the EFHW wagon picks up steam. faust panics and tries to abort:

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

* faust becomes increasingly panicked and has several posts trying to convince others to abandon ship. But when he changes his vote, there's no case behind it. He doesn't talk about joth. It's just an empty post.

So I am desperately trying to derail the EFHW wagon, but I vote without a case? Also I vote joth and not Galzria who already had a perfectly fine wagon on him?

[faust]

But you didn't exactly bother to really push and support your case either - instead you offered "Post-Game Thank You PM's" for coming on board.... which, boy, when you think about it, is a great starter piece for a future case against anybody that joined just for those PM's, no?

No.

[faust]

If anything, participating in the more whismical aspects of gameplay is a towntell.

[Galzria]

But you didn't exactly bother to really push and support your case either - instead you offered "Post-Game Thank You PM's" for coming on board.... which, boy, when you think about it, is a great starter piece for a future case against anybody that joined just for those PM's, no?

No.

lol yeah, sure.

[A Drowned Kernel]

People seem to really like the bucket of me/Faust/ADK

I like it too, with a minor exception... I will vote for either of the other two, though. As is clear, so am I bussing a partner? Or am I the only baddie in the trio?

The other two have planted their vote on me and won’t move it.

Which is extremely scummy.

I'll switch to faust if you will

[MiX]

Both faust's and EFHW's early behavior was to prevent a MiX lynch. faust started the EFHW wagon to pull votes off of MiX, thinking there was no chance EFHW would actually die. When he realized the wagon was working, he panicked.

Why would faust deflect a scum wagon onto scum?

EFHW had no intention of lynching MiX d1 and never voted for him once. She defended him. So why did she, a member of scum, ask for a vote count? It sounds like she was concerned about her Queen.

Emulating her townmeta. This more or less describes scum!EFHW, actually; asking for vote counts after votes is a towny thing (that scum do more, but alas).

This comment is key - it's a partner tell between the two. But EFHW denies him because it would make the two of them look bad.

Denying still looks bad.

MiX tries to jump on EFHW just how he tried to jump on faust - two people that are defending him. He's nervous and trying to make himself look better by voting for his partners.

I literally unvoted next, this is meaningless. The official story is that EFHW was the only scummy person no one had considered, so I wanted to point that out. Why would I do that as scumbuddies with EFHW?

MiX listens to buddy faust and immediately unvotes 2 minutes later. Remember when MiX was suspicious of faust only a few pages earlier? Why is he doing what faust says?

Something I think EFHW said: faust is essencially bound to do towny things regardless of alignment. This makes him an excellent buddy target regardless of my read on him. Besides he was correct.

* Eventually, MiX claims:

Alright. Let's go...

Claim: I am the best role in the game. I have a plan that will inevitably IC me. I am a "Leader". We need to lynch today. My flip will tell you everything you need to know about my role except this: I do it 2 or 3 times. Everything else is pointless if I die now.

* Only 2 minutes later, coach faust replies fast with this comment:

Can you specify whether you are a Skitter?

How did he realize "Leader" = "Skitter" so quickly?? Remember: faust claimed he was not familiar with the flavor. Did he really notice MiX's post, jump on the wiki, search, think about what to ask, and then ask it in 108 seconds? Or did he already know MiX's fake claim?? What's more likely here?

BTW, note that Googling "Falling Skies Leader" does NOT return results for Skitters.

Such a good point. faust, any chance you can explain this now? However, it makes no sense that scum!faust would say this to a partner: he would be forcing more claims from his buddy.

Keep in mind that Glooble - an actual skitter leader - has no QT knowledge of other Skitters. So why would faust? It's laughable. faust should have just said, yeah man, I got it from the "leader" part.

He should, right? So why didn't he? Could it be there's another reason? Like, oh I don't know, his town role? Scum absolutely says they know the skitter flavor here, it's much easier and ties less to their fakeclaim.

Note that e was being wagoned for the very same reason, with EFHW voting for him. If faust was town and believed in his own argument, he'd hop on the e wagon too.

Sure, but EFHW flipped scum, whereas E's a bit towny. Notice how everyone jumped on E after his defense of me.

faust becomes increasingly panicked and has several posts trying to convince others to abandon ship. But when he changes his vote, there's no case behind it. He doesn't talk about joth. It's just an empty post.

Good point.

Great wagons all around. Realistical wagons: Galzria/EFHW/joth. Wagons I'm willing to support: EFHW/joth. Vote untill I wake up:

Vote: EFHW

I do understand faust's theory, but what can scum do about EFHW? Maybe they thought it would die down or something, any movement is scummy when she flips scum.

Yes, any movement off EFHW appears scummy when she flips scum. That's what he was thinking when he threw EFHW back under the bus. But how did he know EFHW was going to flip scum?

Like WHAT?? Why did he say EFHW was going to flip scum?? Read his post. He said EFHW will flip scum.

I was countering faust's EFHW-is-town case, by saying that she can be scum. It was all hypothetical, essencially pointing out that scum can't do much more than bus in that scenario. Which was inevitably true.

Well, we're lynching town. Thus is D1.

Vote: Galz, EFHW's not really diverging from her town meta.

This post makes no sense. He said earlier EFHW would flip scum, but now he's voting for someone he thinks is town?

I had just reread EFHW and came out an EFHW-null, which is to say towny. Well clearly I can't read EFHW, but who can?

Well that was disappointing. shraeye, PPS and pubby have played terribly.

It's always the town that are the most dissappointing.

What a strange thing for both of them to say. Shouldn't they be suspicious of us 3? Why are they acting like we're all town?

I was already pretty sure pubby and pps were town, I was disagreeing with faust's FoS on those 3.

There's absolutely nothing hinting towards Paint Face being a universal backup on the Falling Skies wiki. If anything, he'd be some type of investigative role. Or just a backup to Glooble's ability, but he claims that's not the case and neither him nor Glooble know about each other.

Well I think it makes perfect sense for Paint Face to be a Back-Up...an universal one's just the mafia implementation.

MiX's plan from the start was to copy someone's ability, then use this to "IC" himself. He said it in the beginning: he needs a lynch d1 to show he's town and is willing to lynch a townie to make it happen. But why? Why would a townie be so insistant on proving themself? To me, only scum plays that way.

Weird, I always want to be an IC, it lets me get NKd, which is the best reward in this game.

Unvote

PPE a bunch, I guess we both replied to pubby's case.

[faust]

I'll switch to faust if you will

Et tu, Kernele?

[faust]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

[MiX]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

Why?

[faust]

Such a good point. faust, any chance you can explain this now?

I could but I don't want to.

[faust]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

Why?

Because it let's us know what kind of powers scum has, what kind of power they no longer have. It helps us get a better understanding of the game. If you are what you say you are, then having one power more or less won't make a signficant impact of how scum deals with you, they have to take you out either way. And on the offchance that you are lying, it limits your fakeclaim options.

[MiX]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

Why?

Because it let's us know what kind of powers scum has, what kind of power they no longer have. It helps us get a better understanding of the game. If you are what you say you are, then having one power more or less won't make a signficant impact of how scum deals with you, they have to take you out either way. And on the offchance that you are lying, it limits your fakeclaim options.

Scum not knowing what power I have is better than all of that.

[faust]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

Why?

Because it let's us know what kind of powers scum has, what kind of power they no longer have. It helps us get a better understanding of the game. If you are what you say you are, then having one power more or less won't make a signficant impact of how scum deals with you, they have to take you out either way. And on the offchance that you are lying, it limits your fakeclaim options.

Scum not knowing what power I have is better than all of that.

This may well be the last chance you have to divulge this info, you know this right? I think scum already has a pretty good idea of what your power is.

[MiX]

I think MiX needs to reveal what power he got from EFHW.

Why?

Because it let's us know what kind of powers scum has, what kind of power they no longer have. It helps us get a better understanding of the game. If you are what you say you are, then having one power more or less won't make a signficant impact of how scum deals with you, they have to take you out either way. And on the offchance that you are lying, it limits your fakeclaim options.

Scum not knowing what power I have is better than all of that.

This may well be the last chance you have to divulge this info, you know this right? I think scum already has a pretty good idea of what your power is.

Vote: faust

[Galzria]

On one hand, faust is right here MiX. You may not end up with another opportunity to divulge the information (although I suspect you will) - but more than that, it DOES inform us to what we might be expecting to deal with from scum here.

[Galzria]

On one hand, faust is right here MiX. You may not end up with another opportunity to divulge the information (although I suspect you will) - but more than that, it DOES inform us to what we might be expecting to deal with from scum here.

Which in turn can potentially inform a lot of our own town PR's into being most useful tonight.

[MiX]

Unrelated, what vanilla powers are good to breadcrumb?

On one hand, faust is right here MiX. You may not end up with another opportunity to divulge the information (although I suspect you will) - but more than that, it DOES inform us to what we might be expecting to deal with from scum here.

Yes but scum really wants to know my power, sorta like faust's doing.

[Galzria]

Unrelated, what vanilla powers are good to breadcrumb?

On one hand, faust is right here MiX. You may not end up with another opportunity to divulge the information (although I suspect you will) - but more than that, it DOES inform us to what we might be expecting to deal with from scum here.

Yes but scum really wants to know my power, sorta like faust's doing.

I actually, definitely, don't think they're as interested in knowing as you think they are. And if we can learn what scum LOST then that's extremely valuable.

[MiX]

Unrelated, what vanilla powers are good to breadcrumb?

On one hand, faust is right here MiX. You may not end up with another opportunity to divulge the information (although I suspect you will) - but more than that, it DOES inform us to what we might be expecting to deal with from scum here.

Yes but scum really wants to know my power, sorta like faust's doing.

I actually, definitely, don't think they're as interested in knowing as you think they are. And if we can learn what scum LOST then that's extremely valuable.

Okay the heck with it, this is probably more fun than the other plan.

I'm an active PGO. So PRs, have fun targetting scum.

Unvote

[MiX]

I assume if EFHW had another role it would be less generic than this, which is why I believed the conversation softclaimed that I had a pretty boring role. Which is probablu just this, I only get one.

[pubby]

It makes no sense you wouldn't reveal that immediately if you gained that from EFHW. It's extremely pro-town to reveal that immediately.

[faust]

I assume if EFHW had another role it would be less generic than this, which is why I believed the conversation softclaimed that I had a pretty boring role. Which is probablu just this, I only get one.

Can you tell us what the power is called? (may be best to check with ash first)

[MiX]

I assume if EFHW had another role it would be less generic than this, which is why I believed the conversation softclaimed that I had a pretty boring role. Which is probablu just this, I only get one.

Can you tell us what the power is called? (may be best to check with ash first)

It's something that I could believe town can have, because it reveals in the start-of-day post that they died to me. The name's pretty pointless to know, isn't it?

[MiX]

It makes no sense you wouldn't reveal that immediately if you gained that from EFHW. It's extremely pro-town to reveal that immediately.

It somewhat invalidates its power, at least from my perspective. I wouldn't plan any PRs around scum having PGOs at least.

[faust]

It makes no sense you wouldn't reveal that immediately if you gained that from EFHW. It's extremely pro-town to reveal that immediately.

It somewhat invalidates its power, at least from my perspective. I wouldn't plan any PRs around scum having PGOs at least.

I think it was an extremely risky move to keep that to yourself. You are a prime target for town PRs as well.

[faust]

I assume if EFHW had another role it would be less generic than this, which is why I believed the conversation softclaimed that I had a pretty boring role. Which is probablu just this, I only get one.

Can you tell us what the power is called? (may be best to check with ash first)

It's something that I could believe town can have, because it reveals in the start-of-day post that they died to me. The name's pretty pointless to know, isn't it?

I don't think it is, or I wouldn't have asked.

[Galzria]

Woah Woah Woah, hold up.

MiX, please define Active PGO.

[pubby]

MiX, scum players wouldn't target you until after your gun goes off. And it could be obvious when that happens - there'd be a second night death. The people who would target you would be townies, and they'd die.

Sure, maybe scum doesn't know if you got PGO from EFHW or not, but they're not going to risk it until very late in the game.

It's 100% pro-town to reveal PGO immediately.

-

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

[faust]

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

[Galzria]

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

Right? That's weird. Almost as weird as a player having no knowledge of the flavor guessing Leader = Skitter within 90 seconds. 

[MiX]

Woah Woah Woah, hold up.

MiX, please define Active PGO.

Okay, it's a bit more complicated than that, let's see if I can do this without quoting...

Once, at night, I can activate the power. If I do, the first person (and the "first" person is apparently predetermined? Probably doctors before NKs, stuff like that) that visits me dies, and flavor reveals they picked me.

MiX, scum players wouldn't target you until after your gun goes off. And it could be obvious when that happens - there'd be a second night death. The people who would target you would be townies, and they'd die.

Sure, maybe scum doesn't know if you got PGO from EFHW or not, but they're not going to risk it until very late in the game.

It's 100% pro-town to reveal PGO immediately.

-

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

It's not 100% pro-town because if I had gotten another role from EFHW maybe scum would want me dead much earlier. But I get it.

Did you even read our debunking of your EFHW-faust-MiX case?

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

Right? That's weird. Almost as weird as a player having no knowledge of the flavor guessing Leader = Skitter within 90 seconds. 

Do you also think I'm scum?

[faust]

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

Right? That's weird. Almost as weird as a player having no knowledge of the flavor guessing Leader = Skitter within 90 seconds. 

Well if you want me to I can claim, but I kind of don't think it's a good idea.

[Galzria]

Woah Woah Woah, hold up.

MiX, please define Active PGO.

Okay, it's a bit more complicated than that, let's see if I can do this without quoting...

Once, at night, I can activate the power. If I do, the first person (and the "first" person is apparently predetermined? Probably doctors before NKs, stuff like that) that visits me dies, and flavor reveals they picked me.

MiX, scum players wouldn't target you until after your gun goes off. And it could be obvious when that happens - there'd be a second night death. The people who would target you would be townies, and they'd die.

Sure, maybe scum doesn't know if you got PGO from EFHW or not, but they're not going to risk it until very late in the game.

It's 100% pro-town to reveal PGO immediately.

-

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

It's not 100% pro-town because if I had gotten another role from EFHW maybe scum would want me dead much earlier. But I get it.

Did you even read our debunking of your EFHW-faust-MiX case?

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

Right? That's weird. Almost as weird as a player having no knowledge of the flavor guessing Leader = Skitter within 90 seconds. 

Do you also think I'm scum?

So it's not auto-active? You have to choose when to use it?

[Galzria]

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

Right? That's weird. Almost as weird as a player having no knowledge of the flavor guessing Leader = Skitter within 90 seconds. 

Well if you want me to I can claim, but I kind of don't think it's a good idea.

Well. I'll trust you on that.

[MiX]

So it's not auto-active? You have to choose when to use it?

Auto-active? What? I would've just said PGO then.

Also I just realized faust is obv!town. RMMs are so cool when you're town.

[faust]

Does your power mention harnessed children at all?

[MiX]

Does your power mention harnessed children at all?

No.

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[pubby]

Anyway, the answer still is MiX is scum, faust is scum. Lynch faust today is good and flip Monk. Lynch MiX tomorrow and flip Queen is good too.

Why'd you want to lynch the Queen second?

I counted a bunch of votes and did an analysis on all the scum teams before re-reading. You appeared in 4 teams, MiX in only 3. Mostly you can be paired with Space, but Space has given less concrete evidence to make a case against.

Besides, you seem way more popular today. Nobody wanted to join me on my earlier MiX votes

[pubby]

Queen MiX can also happen with Eddie or e BTW, but there's way less evidence. 

[pubby]

Vote: MiX

Yeah, so you just reiterated that you had background information to know MiX was a Skitter...

And then you vote MiX.

wut?

[faust]

Vote: MiX

Yeah, so you just reiterated that you had background information to know MiX was a Skitter...

And then you vote MiX.

wut?

I don't know that MiX is a Skitter, and I never said that I did.

[pubby]

You made the connection to his claim almost immediately and I want to know why. I think you should claim what you know about Rebel Skitter Leaders. You do not have to claim anything else.

[MiX]

Oooooooooh I get it, I didn't attempt to disprove Galz's theory about scum needing children to do powers! faust's right, I should've done that.

Well, there you go, I got a scum power that doesn't need children to be used, so I don't think that theory's accurate. The children are probably for something else.

[MiX]

You made the connection to his claim almost immediately and I want to know why. I think you should claim what you know about Rebel Skitter Leaders. You do not have to claim anything else.

That connection happened because he's town, do you need more?

[faust]

You made the connection to his claim almost immediately and I want to know why. I think you should claim what you know about Rebel Skitter Leaders. You do not have to claim anything else.

Fine. I have information available to me that strongly implies that there is at least one town-aligned Skitter.

[Galzria]

And now to take a break. Where does that leave us though?

Town:
Galzria
Joth
MiX
Swan
WCD
Awaclus
Pubby

Left to go over:
Eddie
Shraeye
PPS
Glooble
Space
faust
ADK
e

Alright, gonna finish up the bottom 8 here. These may not go in any particular order, as the field is a little bit more muddled down here than the top.

Let's start with PPS:
- PPS is very quick to claim his Flavor Number of 2. If true, he's town. But it could easily be a fake-claim. More
- Given the lack of NK's, and the expectation *at this point* that we're dealing with a single scum faction, said faction must be of reasonable size and power. With that noted, PPS's post at #196 reads townie. The way it's worded and the assumptions it makes is that multiple factions probably exist, instead of pondering in a more open ended way whether or not they exist. That is to say, I feel like scum would be more likely to wonder aloud about the possible existence of third party factions, rather than state a fixed belief in their existence.
- After that... well, honestly I town read PPS yesterday. And reading back, I like a lot of his posts. He's engaged, and seems to be logically thinking through all of his posts - something I'm not exactly used to from scum!PPS (especially in RMM's). But here's the thing... from where I stand right now, I disagree strongly with all of his conclusions that he was drawing yesterday. Like, all of his posts follow a very linear narrative. His thinking is easy to see, easy to follow. His back-and-forth with MiX definitely read townie at the time, but seems more like he was concerned about lynching 3rd party looking back. It just... all feels off now.
- And then this kinda brings me to where I'm feeling right now: As we'll see when I talk about faust, faust was (is) really scummy. His actions scream scummate of EFHW, and if the glove fits... but... it's almost too neat, too good. It all fits too well. And then... as we were approaching deadline yesterday, PPS makes his final two posts of Day 1: #812, wherein he lays out a short but compelling case on faust, moving his vote from EFHW to faust (where it remained), and #850, where he is the first person to bring to the game's attention that EFHW was VLA - something that would normally have been compelling enough to derail EFHW's lynch had it not been so close to deadline.

So.... yeah. Definitely not a good feeling surrounding PPS reading back. That said, he looks far worse if faust ends up being town, and significantly better if faust ends up being scum.

[Galzria]

Let's do Glooble next:
- This is harder to do than the players I feel confident are town.
- I was definitely getting scum vibes from Glooble yesterday. Upon rereading however, he's appeared more townie than I recall. Kinda the opposite of PPS.
- The unforced counter-claim... Well, if he's scum and genuinely thought he caught MiX in a lie, this really wouldn't pan out for him because even if we lynched MiX… after MiX flipped town Glooble would not look good. The only scenario where this really works for scum!Glooble is if he honestly thought that MiX would be caught in a lie and flip 3rd party, thus "clearing" him. Alternatively, and possibly more likely, would be 3rd-party-Glooble thinking he caught Mafia!MiX in a lie here... but again, man, if he's wrong and MiX were lynched and flipped town... Glooble would be hosed.
- I didn't like Glooble attempting to derail the EFHW lynch, especially as he then focused on me. That said... Eh, his case wasn't correct, but it's definitely one I could see coming from a townie that doesn't know the alignment of the player he's accusing.
- Posts #720 & #725 are definitely scummy though. They seem to let on that he knows more about the Harnessed Children than other people.
- Glooble instantly points out that faust is wrong (752) in his assessment of the early EFHW wagon and how that means she must be town - however unlike PPS he doesn't use this fact to try and spin a late wagon against faust.
- Post at 801 makes it pretty blatantly clear that Glooble is town imo. Or rather, that he's not partners with EFHW.
- Glooble's vote on EFHW is vote 7 of 9 to lynch. This is a dicey spot to be, and is around where I would start to believe scum were thinking about getting onto the scum lynch. In particular, Glooble & Space fall into this category. I'm not saying that it IS scummy, but neither is it townie. These are the two players who I don't feel get town points for being part of the lynch.

Overall... I don't believe that Glooble can be or is scum with EFHW. There is nothing in what I've reread however that would preclude him from being 3rd party, but I don't really have a good idea of what 3rd party would exist within the game at this point and time.

[Galzria]

Hell, let's just knock faust out of the way:
- faust's asking of ADK to provide a flavor name not in the show in post #100 did absolutely nothing to help town, but definitely could've helped scum. All players with a number rating of 6 or above were to be provided fake claims, regardless of alignment. So by ADK claiming a 6, you could be damn certain he had a fake flavor name provided. Knowing a character isn't in the game helps town none. Knowing a character isn't in the game could be extremely valuable to scum.
- This is made even more ironic by #110, wherein faust is arguing with ADK about claiming his own number, due to ADK not demonstrating why such information should be as valuable to town as it would be to scum.
- In #345 faust picks on MiX for voting EFHW because it's a useless vote (being the only vote on EFHW at the time) - note that he doesn't pick on me, e, joth, ADK or Glooble - all of whom also have single votes out on players.
- In post #467, faust votes for his 6th unique player, all 6 of which came with no cases (some he put a little something out afterward) attached. It's his 57th game post man... it's like he's got some sort of vote quota to make here. This wouldn't actually be that scummy if he was bothering to support his votes - but he doesn't. So it really just looks like he's trying to create wagons and suspicion. And as he's not backing up his votes with reasons, it all comes off feeling artificially targeted.
- Oh look, #544, another unique vote on Gkrieg/Eddie.

***** All of the above is scummy behaviour. But it's not a case, and it's not any more scummy than some of the things said/done by other players. Certainly some of it IS a bias of me reading him as scummy, so seeing things as scummy. But as I've just reread both PPS and Glooble and more or less flipped my reads on them from Day 1, bias isn't everything. Below is where faust's actions really begin to have a scum narrative to them. *****

People who voted MiX or expressed intent to hammer over the course of the game.

Awaclus (130), pubby (132), faust (133), Galzria (218), ADK (248), Didds (249), Glooble (250), pubby (269), pps (275), Space (292), jotheonah (371), Awaclus (375), Glooble (384), Glazria (385), DatSwan (469), pps (486), ADK (502), shraeye (526), joth (546)

People who defended MiX or questioned votes on him:

Didds (134), faust (somewhere in there, sorry forgot to add), jotheonah (254), jotheonah (311), e (389)

Notable:
- the only player to consistently defend MiX is e.
- the only players who have not gone on the record regarding MiX are gkrieg and EFHW.

I think that it is very likely that there is scum in this group of 3. Probably even more than one.

- This is post #563, and in #564 faust votes for EFHW.This was on July 28th, and 8:53am. The bolding is mine, and I'll come back to that.

Need more EFHW voters. If you vote before L-4 you'll get a personal thank-you note via PM once the game is concluded.

- This post is #601, and was on July 28th at 11:16am. No other players had yet voted for EFHW.
- In post #746, made on July 30th at 7:47am, faust moves his vote to Joth and encourages others to bail on the EFHW wagon as it has "sat around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon."
- The wagon went from faust being the only vote on it and trying to bribe others to join to L-2 (almost L-1, but ADK moved his vote) to faust bailing and encouraging others to do so because it had been "quite a while" in 44 hours.
- Wagons/Cases/Votes that were made not on EFHW during that time that could very easily be constituded as the opposite of "no effort whatsoever to start an althernative [wagon]": {EFHW->Galzria|621}, {Joth->PPS|635}, {pubby->WCD|636}, {e->Gkrieg/Eddie|642}, {Glooble->pubby|652}, {faust->joth|683}, {Glooble->Me|697}, {Shraeye->WCD|710}, {Joth->PPS|713}, {pubby->MiX|719}, {ADK->Joth|733}.
- In a span of 145 posts, made over a 44 hour span, there were 11 attempts made to build a case/wagon on a different player than EFHW. That makes:

As should others, by the way. We've had this wagon sit around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon.

about the most craptastic excuse ever to bail on a wagon.

But back to the bolded from above:

"the only players who have not gone on the record regarding MiX are gkrieg and EFHW."

Let's look at that, shall we? That was post #563, so we'll only concern ourselves with posts prior to this.

#350:

MiX: Shraeye didn't take a position on MiX. I have never had a scumread on MiX in any game, except for the one where he was SK. I don't have one now. Of course there is likely to be scum on the wagon, but I don't have any bias about when they would have joined. They could have started it, since MiX is a popular target. Or they could have jumped on hoping it would go to quicklynch. That's a more rookie move, so I'd be looking at pubby there.

#477

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

#493

also general note based on read back - everyone is aware we are plurality lynch until 9 players remain yes?

I did not realize that. I feel like that really helps scum here. They don't have to get a full wagon to lynch MiX, and I think MiX is town.

Care to elaborate on sir Mix’s towniness?

It's just how he talks. I think it would be hard to fake as scum.

I think it's pretty conclusive where EFHW stood on MiX.

*** Continuing on through the end of the day ***

- Faust's "don't want to be on scum" case is on Joth - easily one of the more obviously town players from Day 1. Trying to pull from a scum wagon to a town wagon is scummy.
- In #683 faust tried to get others to start a counter wagon on joth for him, because he didn't want to look bad for leaving EFHW. When that didn't pan out, and when EFHW's votes continued to climb, he finally bailed in #746. The was on July 30th, 22 hours prior to deadline. Between then and deadline, he actively pushed for joth to be lynched instead of EFHW in #751, #756, #762, #797, #828 and at #879 stated a refusal to move his vote.

***

The case here is quite simple:

faust saw an opportunity to place a vote on a partner that didn't have anything going. A safe vote that could be referenced later as to why they cannot be partners. So he made a weak case and threw his vote on EFHW. Not wanting to break meta, faust encouraged others to join - not really thinking it would go anywhere on such a weak case. Again, all pretty safe moves. When things began to pick up steam, faust began freaking out a little bit and started encouraging cases on other people (joth). Surely somebody would notice how bad his case on EFHW was? But alas, the EFHW wagon continued to build and faust was forced to bail. As deadline was closing in, he became more and more desperate to get the wagon derailed and pushed harder and harder for people to change their votes. Finally, faced with the option of helping make the EFHW lynch happen, or hoping it fell through and bought them a night, faust simply refused to vote for EFHW.
 

[Galzria]

Eddie should be up next, I think... I'm going to focus more on him than Gkrieg, although there isn't a lot to go on in either case:
- Eddie comes in with a quick vote on e, but suggests he would like to lynch ADK more. He then puts out a short would/wouldn't lynch bucket. In the would lynch is Joth/EFHW. But then he quickly pivots back off of that to ADK again. [759, 765, 767]
- In #835 he says that he would prefer an EFHW lynch to a Joth lynch, but would still like to see an ADK lynch more. He hasn't actually given any reasons for wanting ADK lynched...
- In his very next post, #856, coming 5 1/2 hours to deadline, Eddie votes for me for "balance" - Not only is this vote out of the blue (he hasn't even mentioned me by name prior to this), but the reasoning is literally to "create an equally viable wagon to EFHW at this time."
- In #864 Eddie talks about not feeling great about voting Joth, but likes that faust/MiX are there. He doesn't mention EFHW in this post, much less that he had previously stated that he prefered an EFHW lynch to a Joth lynch.
- In #877 he says that he'll vote "any of the three", by which I believe he means me/joth/EFHW.
- In #887 Eddie moves his vote from me to Joth, again completely ignoring EFHW or the fact that he had previously stated he was more willing to lynch her than joth - also ignoring the fact that it was now just 40 minutes to deadline and his vote only gave joth four votes, whereas it would've given EFHW six.
- In Day 2 Eddie has said that he was on and would've hammered if e had not done so - but there is literally no verifiable proof of this and at the end of the day the only facts remain that he did not vote for EFHW, despite saying that he would previously.

*****

There is another aspect to this which I want to bring up. As I mentioned previously, I believe that scum had Day Chat yesterday. I believe they were actively tracking who was online and who could/would vote for EFHW at the end of the day. I believe that Eddie's decision to stay off the wagon was based upon the fact that they did not believe that town had the votes to get the lynch through. I'll go into more detail in the next post.

[Galzria]

As this one needs to follow Eddie, this will be my read on Space.

- Alright... so... yeah. I don't really have anything concrete here. I never really do with Space. They've felt like they've been buddying faust for much of Day 1, and they've been generally very... I don't know. Under the radar isn't quite right, but they're cases just haven't really felt like there's anything to them. And I know Space often struggles with cases outside of the vote-analysis realm,,, but the cases that they've made have just felt like they're trying not to rock the boat. They're generally safe cases.

- So here's what stands out to me. I don't believe it's a stretch, however it is based on a pretty big assumption, something that isn't actually (and probably won't ever be) known: I believe scum had Day Chat yesterday, and I think that this post:

Given the combination of people who're active in here just now, and the layout of the wagons, I think EFHW is the only lynch that has a chance of going through. That's because while the Joth set is growing, we'd need a lot of not-currently-here people to push it over the line.

vote: EFHW with apologies for jumping on the hard-VLA wagon. I don't have time to sit and track the thread up to deadline, but I'll try to check back and move if it really pushes something through.

I think this is the current state, unless there are PPE votes:
Galzria (3): EFHW, Glooble
EFHW (5): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, jotheonah, SpaceAnemone
jotheonah (4): A Drowned Kernel, faust, MiX, Uncleeurope
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WestCoastDidds (1): pubby

is a demonstration of that. The bolded part is reasonable, but I think what it really says is "Based on who's logged in, who's said they won't vote for EFHW, and who my partners are, I don't believe the EFHW lynch will go through and I would rather be on the wagon than off".

Let's look at what was happening then in more detail. Space's vote actually put EFHW at 6, not 5 as listed in the count above. I believe that was just an accident of updating the numbers. EFHW needed 3 more votes to lynch, and it was 26 minutes to deadline. Active players around that time included {MiX, Glooble, Eddie, faust, swan}, although Swan and faust had been off for an hour by that time. Of that group, swan was already on the wagon and couldn't vote again. Faust had stated categorically that he wasn't going to be a part of an EFHW lynch. That meant that in order for the lynch to happen, the only other 3 active players would've needed to vote EFHW. Glooble did so. Then MiX did so. Eddie was nowhere to be seen.

I think Space's vote was by far the most calculated vote to go onto the wagon, and it's even almost hinted at within their post. I think "somebody else logging on and hammering" was a "worst case" scenario for scum there, but they were hopeful the deadline would slip by and EFHW would survive. And even in the worse case, at least Space would still have been on the wagon.

[Galzria]

That still leaves me with ADK, e, and Shraeye to do. It's 3:00am though and I'm tired, so I'll just put this out there instead:

ADK said something Day 1 that, due to my flavor, leads me to think that he very well could be town.
e's hammer - I just don't think scum does that. Yeah, he said he would be back, but things come up. He's at work. He last logged in 2 1/2 hours prior to deadline. I mean, it's not unheard of that scum does what he did... but I think 9 times out of 10 it's town.
Shraeye - the scummiest of the remaining three.

At the end of the day, everything said and done...

vote: Eddie

is my preferred lynch today. Space would be second. Faust would be third, with an eye towards Shraeye. The thing about faust is, while there's definitely a good, strong case there - like I said, it's all too neat... and when I look at the interactions around him, I see far more things that read as scum latching onto faust for all the right reasons... that ultimately end up being on town.

[faust]

Okay, time to do this I guess.

- In post #746, made on July 30th at 7:47am, faust moves his vote to Joth and encourages others to bail on the EFHW wagon as it has "sat around for quite a while and there was no effort whatsoever to start an alternative. This indicates that scum is overall pretty happy with the EFHW wagon."
- The wagon went from faust being the only vote on it and trying to bribe others to join to L-2 (almost L-1, but ADK moved his vote) to faust bailing and encouraging others to do so because it had been "quite a while" in 44 hours.

Yes, it was 44 hours, and at the time of my jumping off it was 22 hours to deadline. Two thirds of the time we had left classifies as quite a while for me.

- Wagons/Cases/Votes that were made not on EFHW during that time that could very easily be constituded as the opposite of "no effort whatsoever to start an althernative [wagon]": {EFHW->Galzria|621}, {Joth->PPS|635}, {pubby->WCD|636}, {e->Gkrieg/Eddie|642}, {Glooble->pubby|652}, {faust->joth|683}, {Glooble->Me|697}, {Shraeye->WCD|710}, {Joth->PPS|713}, {pubby->MiX|719}, {ADK->Joth|733}.

Let me check those out. EFHW trying something doesn't count, because doh, obviously she want to lynch someone other than herself. 635 - unsubstantiated vote. 636 - unsubstantiated vote. 642 - ok, fair. 652 - maybe? But I thought (and think) that Glooble is town. 683 - well that's me, I know I'm town, so. 997 - Glooble again, see before. 710 - unsubstantiated. 713 - fine. 719 - I mean that reasoning won't convince anyone. 733 - ok.

So some of those votes tried to moves us elsewhere. But all who did (except from Glooble) were single votes on people with no other votes on them, not the best work if you're trying to build a wagon.

"the only players who have not gone on the record regarding MiX are gkrieg and EFHW."

Let's look at that, shall we? That was post #563, so we'll only concern ourselves with posts prior to this.

[...]
I think it's pretty conclusive where EFHW stood on MiX.

Are you basing a scumread on that? I don't know how that makes sense. As EFHW's partner, wouldn't I be aware of her reads, so me not knowing them is a sign of town? Or are you implying I purposely lied about EFHW's reads? What would be the point of such an obvious lie?

- Faust's "don't want to be on scum" case is on Joth - easily one of the more obviously town players from Day 1. Trying to pull from a scum wagon to a town wagon is scummy.
- In #683 faust tried to get others to start a counter wagon on joth for him, because he didn't want to look bad for leaving EFHW. When that didn't pan out, and when EFHW's votes continued to climb, he finally bailed in #746. The was on July 30th, 22 hours prior to deadline. Between then and deadline, he actively pushed for joth to be lynched instead of EFHW in #751, #756, #762, #797, #828 and at #879 stated a refusal to move his vote.

I disagree with your read on joth and in general would advise against basing reads on other reads when you have no solid information. The solid information we do have is that I refused to vote for you, confirmed town, when that was presented as the main alternative to EFHW. Instead I split the anti-EFHW votes into two wagons, which resulted in neither of them succeeding.

[Uncleeurope]

Galz, do you think I am partners with Faust?

If not, who in your scum list am I partners with?

I will lynch them.

For the most part your scum list is mine, so I’m ready.

[Glooble]

If scum have a “shot pool”- the harnessed kids- does that make any sense with MiX’s claim to have inherited a power from EFHW?

I feel like MiX’s claim is a little hard to believe. Getting a 1-shot power from everyone who dies, regardless of alignment? But if scum have a shared pool of powers, wouldn’t they know which one MiX inherited, since they wouldn’t have access to it anymore?

Also, regarding Faust’s claim that he released a harnessed child- I don’t think the lack of a counterclaim tells us anything. The child could have been released as a consequence of EFHWs death. The thing is I’m not sure I buy the existence of a town power that strips scum of one of their shots, unless it has some kind of drawback it just seems like poor game design. Why not just give scum fewer shots? Why give town a power that’s always beneficial to use and doesn’t even need to be targeted to work?

Obviously I don’t know how Faust’s power works, and maybe to get rid of a scum shot he had to give up some other power. But I just don’t think this is a situation where “he claimed it and no one countered” proves anything.

[Uncleeurope]

I have been phone posting this whole time and don’t have access to a computer so I have to go about this oddly. I will be holding my comments mid-quote.

And, hey, at least this way if I don’t cover a point you wanted me to, it’s quite blatant.

Eddie should be up next, I think... I'm going to focus more on him than Gkrieg, although there isn't a lot to go on in either case:
- Eddie comes in with a quick vote on e, but suggests he would like to lynch ADK more. He then puts out a short would/wouldn't lynch bucket. In the would lynch is Joth/EFHW. this bucket’s participants were determined by MiX IIRC, hence my mentioning preferring other people. So it is hardly a pivot as you go on to say. But then he quickly pivots back off of that to ADK again. [759, 765, 767]
- In #835 he says that he would prefer an EFHW lynch to a Joth lynch, but would still like to see an ADK lynch more. He hasn't actually given any reasons for wanting ADK lynched... Yup, it’s a bit silly to lay this out then disregard it to save a scum who is going to die anyway (especially if daychat is a thing and we agreed on some bussing, as you suggest later.) this only serves to incriminate me for no gain. Scum me wouldn’t want the attention and would prefer to be the one in the lynch, instead of someone with weaker reasons to vote Space. Especially since I was on at deadline. I could have easily done that and been much less suspicious.
- In his very next post, #856, coming 5 1/2 hours to deadline, Eddie votes for me for "balance" - Not only is this vote out of the blue (he hasn't even mentioned me by name prior to this), but the reasoning is literally to "create an equally viable wagon to EFHW at this time." eh, you were acting squirrelly and I don’t like inevitable lunches, they are much less interesting. Every game I have played I have done his, though. Town and scum, so not really noteworthy. (From my perspective at least.
- In #864 Eddie talks about not feeling great about voting Joth, but likes that faust/MiX are there. He doesn't mention EFHW in this post, much less that he had previously stated that he prefered an EFHW lynch to a Joth lynch. see above...
- In #877 he says that he'll vote "any of the three", by which I believe he means me/joth/EFHW. I stand by that, I would have voted/hammered any one of you to get a lynch in.
- In #887 Eddie moves his vote from me to Joth, again completely ignoring EFHW or the fact that he had previously stated he was more willing to lynch her than joth - also ignoring the fact that it was now just 40 minutes to deadline and his vote only gave joth four votes, whereas it would've given EFHW six. It makes a lot more sense to do my play if I planned on being around for deadline and could move to EFHW if needed. I even did this in my previous game on this site to hammer Debate (begrudgingly) with 50 seconds to spare, 90 is nothing.
- In Day 2 Eddie has said that he was on and would've hammered if e had not done so - but there is literally no verifiable proof of this and at the end of the day the only facts remain that he did not vote for EFHW, despite saying that he would previously. Which is the stupidest thing a scum player could do and nowhere in my wheelhouse for this kind of behavior as scum. And if you think I am lying about being online, then screw you.

*****

There is another aspect to this which I want to bring up. As I mentioned previously, I believe that scum had Day Chat yesterday. I believe they were actively tracking who was online and who could/would vote for EFHW at the end of the day. I believe that Eddie's decision to stay off the wagon was based upon the fact that they did not believe that town had the votes to get the lynch through. I'll go into more detail in the next post. again, why would I be the one elected to be off-wagon if another scum is online and on-wagon? I would be elected to be on-wagon every time based on the previously stated feelings I had on voting EFHW. You are literally incriminating me for behavior while simultaneously saying there was daychat to determine who should be on-offwagon.

[MiX]

I think the "shot pool" theory is just dead wrong, otherwise my role doesn't really make sense when scum dies. It was a good guess, and I should've paid more attention to it earlier because I could disprove it.

The child could have been released as a consequence of EFHWs death.

That was definitely my first thought when I saw it (or a consequence of no NK, but that made a little bit more sense).

Why give town a power that’s always beneficial to use and doesn’t even need to be targeted to work?

You know who has this? Awaclus. Which is why I didn't believe it.


All in all I bet we'll have to wait untill D3 to find out what the children are here for.

[faust]

Why give town a power that’s always beneficial to use and doesn’t even need to be targeted to work?

You know who has this? Awaclus. Which is why I didn't believe it.

Being hated is a downside in my books, albeit not a very confirmable one.

[Glooble]

This is gonna sound super sketch, but I think I figured out a way to get info that will help me use my night action effectively while giving scum very little useful information.

Galz, can you please either confirm that you are not Ben Mason or confirm that you are not Tom Mason?

[WestCoastDidds]

I'll switch to faust if you will

Et tu, Kernele?

You kill me, faust. Hilarious

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.10:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (3): WCD, Datswan, Uncle
Uncle (4): ADK, 2.7, Awaclus, Galzria
MiX (2): Space, faust
Space (2): shraeye, PPS

Not Voting (2): Glooble, MiX

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Galzria]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

[Uncleeurope]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Odd that the wording is like that. Weird.

But coolio.

[Glooble]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Well that's convenient.

Can you answer my question?

[faust]

Alrighty.

Vote: shraeye

[Uncleeurope]

Wait, are you done with me all of a sudden, Faust?

[faust]

Wait, are you done with me all of a sudden, Faust?

It's so boring to join a wagon that has the IC on it. I want to do my own thing.

[Uncleeurope]

Respect.

[Galzria]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Well that's convenient.

Can you answer my question?

I see your question. I don’t see any value in answering it one way, another, or neither.

[Glooble]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Well that's convenient.

Can you answer my question?

I see your question. I don’t see any value in answering it one way, another, or neither.

Can you trust that me knowing this one small piece of info is hugely beneficial to town, otherwise I wouldn't be asking? The value to scum of knowing one particular flavor name that one particular towny is not seems negligible to me by comparison.

[jotheonah]

pubby, I really liked your case before Galzria disproved it. how does knowing MiX's alignment change your read on faust? Do you think the whole thing falls down like a house of cards?

[Glooble]

Galz, you're an IC who's claimed an investigative role. You've already got the biggest target on your head. One little piece of info isn't going to change that. But it might help me save your life.

[MiX]

Oh am I an IC now? Fun. But I wanted that to happen my own way.

I suppose I must make cases for people to sheep now.

[Galzria]

Galz, you're an IC who's claimed an investigative role. You've already got the biggest target on your head. One little piece of info isn't going to change that. But it might help me save your life.

Flavor names may be one of the most critical pieces of information in this game, as per Ash’s 2nd post. Still, you would like me to state one of either “I’m not Ben Mason” or “I’m not Tom Mason”? I assume you’re asking specifically about these two characters because of Redeye’s relationship to them in the show?

Alright, I’ll state one as fact: “I am not Tom Mason”, nor do I know of the existence of any such character.

[Uncleeurope]

Hey, MiX, bro. You are my best friend. Nothing could ever come between our friendship. Stories will be good for eons. The names Eddie and MiX will be equitable to all great friendships in history. As a mark of our friendship you should tell people you trust me.

Then it’s IC vs IC.

[Glooble]

Galz, you're an IC who's claimed an investigative role. You've already got the biggest target on your head. One little piece of info isn't going to change that. But it might help me save your life.

Flavor names may be one of the most critical pieces of information in this game, as per Ash’s 2nd post. Still, you would like me to state one of either “I’m not Ben Mason” or “I’m not Tom Mason”? I assume you’re asking specifically about these two characters because of Redeye’s relationship to them in the show?

Alright, I’ll state one as fact: “I am not Tom Mason”, nor do I know of the existence of any such character.

Really appreciate it.

[MiX]

Hey, MiX, bro. You are my best friend. Nothing could ever come between our friendship. Stories will be good for eons. The names Eddie and MiX will be equitable to all great friendships in history. As a mark of our friendship you should tell people you trust me.

Then it’s IC vs IC.

For fun? Sure, here goes: "you trust me".

Seriously, who do you think is scum and why is it ADK?

[Glooble]

If scum had daychat, why would they have wanted to be one on wagon, one off? I would think once they decided to bus they would both bus, to try and squeeze the maximum amount of towncred out of a bad situation. Or just made their own decisions to seem consistent with their expressed reads. I get the 1 off/ 1 on thing as a general heuristic but I'm not sure it applies in this situation.

[MiX]

If scum had daychat, why would they have wanted to be one on wagon, one off? I would think once they decided to bus they would both bus, to try and squeeze the maximum amount of towncred out of a bad situation. Or just made their own decisions to seem consistent with their expressed reads. I get the 1 off/ 1 on thing as a general heuristic but I'm not sure it applies in this situation.

Why would they have daychat? What is this replying to?

[Glooble]

If scum had daychat, why would they have wanted to be one on wagon, one off? I would think once they decided to bus they would both bus, to try and squeeze the maximum amount of towncred out of a bad situation. Or just made their own decisions to seem consistent with their expressed reads. I get the 1 off/ 1 on thing as a general heuristic but I'm not sure it applies in this situation.

Why would they have daychat? What is this replying to?

Mostly its replying to Galz's case on Eddie and Eddie's defense of it. Galz seems to think scum used a harnessed child Night 0 to get themselves daychat for day 1.

[Uncleeurope]

Galz said that they (bery potentially) have daychat.

Hey, MiX, bro. You are my best friend. Nothing could ever come between our friendship. Stories will be good for eons. The names Eddie and MiX will be equitable to all great friendships in history. As a mark of our friendship you should tell people you trust me.

Then it’s IC vs IC.

For fun? Sure, here goes: "you trust me".

Seriously, who do you think is scum and why is it ADK?

Space/e/ADK/Faust

ADK is setting off my gut-scum alert. Low activity coupled with the sole contributions being self-defender and pushing me. Both of which are slightly scummy. His primary defense he has going for him is that he has a scummy flavor name.

Soo...

[Glooble]

Though I just reread Galz's post and now realize I misunderstood what he was saying about Eddie's reason for being off-wagon.

[MiX]

Vote: ADK, time to reread them

[2.71828.....]

Lots of stuff happening, need to catch up but can't tonight- having friends over for a game night.

It is nice that MiX is cleared.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Galz said that they (bery potentially) have daychat.

Hey, MiX, bro. You are my best friend. Nothing could ever come between our friendship. Stories will be good for eons. The names Eddie and MiX will be equitable to all great friendships in history. As a mark of our friendship you should tell people you trust me.

Then it’s IC vs IC.

For fun? Sure, here goes: "you trust me".

Seriously, who do you think is scum and why is it ADK?

Space/e/ADK/Faust

ADK is setting off my gut-scum alert. Low activity coupled with the sole contributions being self-defender and pushing me. Both of which are slightly scummy. His primary defense he has going for him is that he has a scummy flavor name.

Soo...

Man i've relatively low activity but I don't think it's fair to say those have been my sole contributions

[Uncleeurope]

Happy to see you show up to defend yourself.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am following along, but still fairly distracted. The tiny terrorist and fam leave tomorrow morning, so I should be able to contribute more at that point.

In the mean time, I am reeling that MiX is IC'ed by Galz. That is crazytown! He's so scummy!  Alas, knowing he is not a baddie means that my scummeter is busted for sure. I haven't waded through the dense walls 'o text yet, other than pubby's initial well laid out scum narrative master plan. Does it fall apart if MiX is replaced by e or Shraeye in the scum role? faust is the lynchpin in pubby's view, yeah? 

Oh, hey, guess what Eddie? It's our one-year mafia anniversary this week! Congratulations! I think faust should throw a party for us since he was in our first game and we're still around and playing. Also, hypercube needs to come back.

[pubby]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Does this mean MiX lied about being PGO? Because you survived targeting him last night?

pubby, I really liked your case before Galzria disproved it. how does knowing MiX's alignment change your read on faust? Do you think the whole thing falls down like a house of cards?

I don't think my case is disproven. Remember - I thought MiX was a Godfather. Godfathers always show town when investigated.

But if MiX truly is town, I'm missing a good argument for why faust started the EFHW wagon. I do not think faust is proven innocent by this but I do think it disproves much of my theory.

[MiX]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Does this mean MiX lied about being PGO? Because you survived targeting him last night?

I have to actively use it, and obviously I haven't used it yet.

pubby, I really liked your case before Galzria disproved it. how does knowing MiX's alignment change your read on faust? Do you think the whole thing falls down like a house of cards?

I don't think my case is disproven. Remember - I thought MiX was a Godfather. Godfathers always show town when investigated.

But if MiX truly is town, I'm missing a good argument for why faust started the EFHW wagon. I do not think faust is proven innocent by this but I do think it disproves much of my theory.

You're really stubborn. Remember last game where joth was good and you pushed him all game even when he was essencially 100% good just by being the only one making effort and you were still scumreading them? That.

faust started the EFHW wagon because there was a good case: so good, in fact, it was on scum.

[Galzria]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Does this mean MiX lied about being PGO? Because you survived targeting him last night?

No. MiX’s PGO is not an auto-use ability.

[jotheonah]

is Godfather a consideration here?

[Galzria]

is Godfather a consideration here?

It could be. Or any other role that alters results/modified targets.

[MiX]

is Godfather a consideration here?

In my last scum game I was a Godfather therefore I can't be a Godfather 

Honestly, think about my entire play before deciding this, was I trying to get picked for cop? Because last time I definitely was. Check the differences/similarities and come back.

[Uncleeurope]

I am following along, but still fairly distracted. The tiny terrorist and fam leave tomorrow morning, so I should be able to contribute more at that point.

In the mean time, I am reeling that MiX is IC'ed by Galz. That is crazytown! He's so scummy!  Alas, knowing he is not a baddie means that my scummeter is busted for sure. I haven't waded through the dense walls 'o text yet, other than pubby's initial well laid out scum narrative master plan. Does it fall apart if MiX is replaced by e or Shraeye in the scum role? faust is the lynchpin in pubby's view, yeah? 

Oh, hey, guess what Eddie? It's our one-year mafia anniversary this week! Congratulations! I think faust should throw a party for us since he was in our first game and we're still around and playing. Also, hypercube needs to come back.

I actually think MiX has been pretty towny this game.

And has it been a year? It doesn’t really count for me seeing as I took a pretty hefty break, though. Infangthief needs to return as well.

[Awaclus]

Oh am I an IC now? Fun. But I wanted that to happen my own way.

...the way that didn't make you believe that I'm town?

[shraeye]

Pubbya narrative just puts too many assumptions down, I can't see any chance it's accurate.

Also mix saying Faust's EFHW case was good because it was on scum...dude, was there a case beyond "vote here for a thank you PM"?  It was not a good case.

[MiX]

Also mix saying Faust's EFHW case was good because it was on scum...dude, was there a case beyond "vote here for a thank you PM"?  It was not a good case.

Yes? He isolated 4 people that he thought had scum, ruled himself out, took away E for reasons and gkrieg for VLA and made the case for EFHW which fit the case the best. It's not a great case but it's a good case.

Oh am I an IC now? Fun. But I wanted that to happen my own way.

...the way that didn't make you believe that I'm town?

Precisely, yes.

[Awaclus]

is Godfather a consideration here?

I think potentially yes. "Shares a wincon" sounds like something a regular Godfather shouldn't be able to interfere with, and I guess it would be technically bastard to have a non-standard Godfather, but since it plays out the exact same, ashersky might have done it anyway.

[shraeye]

Oh am I an IC now? Fun. But I wanted that to happen my own way.

...the way that didn't make you believe that I'm town?

Hey. We get it.  You said you did a thing, mix doesn't believe it.  How many times have you chimed in to repeat this point already?

What's the purpose?  Are you trying to say MiX is scummy for disbelieving?  Do you think saying it for the 8th time will finally convince him?

[Awaclus]

Hey. We get it.  You said you did a thing, mix doesn't believe it.  How many times have you chimed in to repeat this point already?

What's the purpose?  Are you trying to say MiX is scummy for disbelieving?  Do you think saying it for the 8th time will finally convince him?

I got him to admit it, that's progress.

[MiX]

Hey. We get it.  You said you did a thing, mix doesn't believe it.  How many times have you chimed in to repeat this point already?

What's the purpose?  Are you trying to say MiX is scummy for disbelieving?  Do you think saying it for the 8th time will finally convince him?

I got him to admit it, that's progress.

Progress in what?

[Awaclus]

Hey. We get it.  You said you did a thing, mix doesn't believe it.  How many times have you chimed in to repeat this point already?

What's the purpose?  Are you trying to say MiX is scummy for disbelieving?  Do you think saying it for the 8th time will finally convince him?

I got him to admit it, that's progress.

Progress in what?

Admission is the first step to recovery.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.11:

faust (2): joth, pubby
ADK (4): WCD, Datswan, Uncle, MiX
Uncle (4): ADK, 2.7, Awaclus, Galzria
MiX (1): Space
Space (2): shraeye, PPS
shraeye (1): faust

Not Voting (1): Glooble

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Glooble]

vote: faust

For now because I don’t like being the only person who hasn’t voted today, and I do think there’s a lot going on with him that’s fishy, and I don’t think his claim that he released a harnessed child is at all verifiable.

I’m sorry I haven’t been more engaged today. Vacation happened and then I had a ton of catch-up work to do, so I haven’t really had any downtime at the office which is when I do a lot of my playing. I’d like to ISO Space and Eddie, I might like one of them better after I do. Don’t really see the ADK case right now.

[Uncleeurope]

Nobody does, which is fine, but also concerning. More people would be pushing him if he was town I think.

[SpaceAnemone]

I got very behind! Sorry :-( I'm not at all up to date right now because things got busy. I'll work on catching up in any breaks I get tomorrow, because I have to get to bed right now.

Space:

Very simply, MiX went out of his way to say “This is my case on Joth for tomorrow”.

Just so I don't become the annoying one leaving things hanging, yes, thanks for emphasizing that. I can see that if we focus on the "for tomorrow" part, then MiX leaving something "for tomorrow" seems townie. However, I was more focusing on the fact that at the point in time where EFHW wasn't at all a certain lynch, MiX was busy piecing together a case on Joth without even being on the EFHW wagon, and at the time he was working to make the case, it wasn't at all clear that the EFHW wagon would be the one to grow, rather than the Joth one. I feel like the "for tomorrow" line could easily have been edited in with the PPE, and that before reading the two EFHW votes from me and Glooble, he could have been seriously planning to post it as a reason for people to move from EFHW onto Joth.

However the "tomorrow" part does definitely explain MiX's thing about his case being useless, if he means only that posting the case wasn't useful as a "for tomorrow" thing, instead of that the content of the case itself was useless, which was how I read it. So I was missing something after all.

Not sure where my vote should be going at the moment. I'll see how I feel when I'm caught up.

[pingpongsam]

I am caught up and basically we just confirmed my suspicions all around. My vote stands.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Space

Sure.

[Swowl]

Catching up... off the top the head question:

@ Galz - i get (now) why you asked MiX start of day... why did you ask pubby?

[faust]

I think faust should throw a party for us since he was in our first game and we're still around and playing.

If by party you mean a new RMM, then sure, that can be arranged.

[faust]

was there a case beyond "vote here for a thank you PM"?

Yes.

[MiX]

I feel like the "for tomorrow" line could easily have been edited in with the PPE, and that before reading the two EFHW votes from me and Glooble, he could have been seriously planning to post it as a reason for people to move from EFHW onto Joth.

Well at least that's accurate: that's precisely what happened. Truthful things like these is what's making me not vote Space, but I don't know their scum meta.

[faust]

Hey Eddie, do you want to share some of your more controversial townreads?

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I think there’s a good chance you are town.

I also thought MiX was town before it was cool.

[faust]

Yeah, I think there’s a good chance you are town.

So what was this?

Seriously, who do you think is scum and why is it ADK?

Space/e/ADK/Faust

[Uncleeurope]

That’s so yesterday, bro.

[faust]

That’s so yesterday, bro.

What changed?

[Uncleeurope]

Mood, mainly. Around lunchtime I might vote for you again.

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

It's already past lunchtime here.

[Uncleeurope]

Well I’ll wait the expected allotment of time before responding, if I feel so inclined.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Eddie

It's already past lunchtime here.

Quick question, actually: Have you mustered up a case about me separate from my voting pattern that is heavily circumstantial and disconnected entirely from the reality that my previous gameplay suggests?

Because it feels an awfully lot like you are being wrong and stubborn about your wrongness.

There isn’t a real case on me. Galz’s case is crap and nobody else has one.

[faust]

Vote: Eddie

It's already past lunchtime here.

Quick question, actually: Have you mustered up a case about me separate from my voting pattern that is heavily circumstantial and disconnected entirely from the reality that my previous gameplay suggests?

Because it feels an awfully lot like you are being wrong and stubborn about your wrongness.

There isn’t a real case on me. Galz’s case is crap and nobody else has one.

Do you have a case for why you are town?

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, my wagon is a scum soup with IC seasoning.

Other than that, no. Just cases that suggest I am not the scummiest player here.

Do you think I am the best case for catching a baddie today?

[shraeye]

Vote: Eddie

It's already past lunchtime here.

Quick question, actually: Have you mustered up a case about me separate from my voting pattern that is heavily circumstantial and disconnected entirely from the reality that my previous gameplay suggests?

Because it feels an awfully lot like you are being wrong and stubborn about your wrongness.

There isn’t a real case on me. Galz’s case is crap and nobody else has one.

Do you have a case for why you are town?

If it counts for anything, I believe Uncle is town.  Even if you don't count that for anything, I still believe it.

[faust]

Yeah, my wagon is a scum soup with IC seasoning.

That might even count for something if it wasn't coming from someone who thinks everyone is scum.

Do you think I am the best case for catching a baddie today?

I am voting for you. The rest is left to your imagination.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, my wagon is a scum soup with IC seasoning.

That might even count for something if it wasn't coming from someone who thinks everyone is scum.

Do you think I am the best case for catching a baddie today?

I am voting for you. The rest is left to your imagination.

Fine, then tell me that you trust ADK/e.

[faust]

Fine, then tell me that you trust ADK/e.

I think you are confused about how this works. I can vote for you whenever I want, and I don't have to justify my vote, least of all to you. If you want to convince me not to vote for, for instance because you think ADK/e are scummier, then it is your prerogative to build a case and convince me that this is so.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.12:

faust (3): joth, pubby, Glooble
ADK (3): WCD, Datswan, MiX
Uncle (5): ADK, 2.7, Awaclus, Galzria, Faust
MiX (1): Space
Space (3): shraeye, PPS, Uncle

Not Voting (0):

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Uncleeurope]

Fine, then tell me that you trust ADK/e.

I think you are confused about how this works. I can vote for you whenever I want, and I don't have to justify my vote, least of all to you. If you want to convince me not to vote for, for instance because you think ADK/e are scummier, then it is your prerogative to build a case and convince me that this is so.

Okay, then don’t justify your vote. But it’s wrong, and being unwilling to talk through your poor arguments inevitably results in an unchangable mind.

And me not knowing your preconceptions about a topic limit my ability to convince you of anything.

If I don’t know where you stand on anything I can’t convince you of anything.

But feel free to stand up there on your high horse looking down on a man not given the ability to have a legitimate discussion.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, my wagon is a scum soup with IC seasoning.

Other than that, no. Just cases that suggest I am not the scummiest player here.

Do you think I am the best case for catching a baddie today?

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, my wagon is a scum soup with IC seasoning.

Other than that, no. Just cases that suggest I am not the scummiest player here.

Do you think I am the best case for catching a baddie today?

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

Well that is obviously incorrect.

But cool, bro.

Sadly I am the only town that can know that for certain here.

But obviously baddies are finding it in themselves to let me die here.

I guess we can commend them on their bravery after the game.

Or, hey, even after I die.

[faust]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

[faust]

#UncleAtE

[Uncleeurope]

#UncleAtE

Don’t get that one.

Joth, you would vote for me here?

Trying to gauge how likely I am to die here.

[jotheonah]

#UncleAtE

Don’t get that one.

Joth, you would vote for me here?

Trying to gauge how likely I am to die here.

You're not my first choice. Or my second. I wouldn't resign myself to being the day's lynch if I were you.

Part of my issue with your wagon is that Galz being there sort of gives people permission, so if you do flip town everyone else on the wagon gets to say "I was just following the IC". It makes it an attractive scum wagon for sure. Of course, if you're scum that's a moot point.

You're playing pretty townie though. So there's that.

I'd vote for you if I had to though.

[jotheonah]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

Honestly, either of them could be.

[faust]

Part of my issue with your wagon is that Galz being there sort of gives people permission, so if you do flip town everyone else on the wagon gets to say "I was just following the IC". It makes it an attractive scum wagon for sure. Of course, if you're scum that's a moot point.

Everyone currently on the Eddie wagon had already voted for Eddie before Galzria voted. This argument is a smokescreen with no actual bearing on the game because noone so far has followed the IC.

[faust]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

Honestly, either of them could be.

Who do you think is town?

[MiX]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

Honestly, either of them could be.

No they can't

Part of my issue with your wagon is that Galz being there sort of gives people permission, so if you do flip town everyone else on the wagon gets to say "I was just following the IC". It makes it an attractive scum wagon for sure. Of course, if you're scum that's a moot point.

Everyone currently on the Eddie wagon had already voted for Eddie before Galzria voted. This argument is a smokescreen with no actual bearing on the game because noone so far has followed the IC.

Faust is right, stop being scummy joth.

[shraeye]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to.

I don't get this, have you explained it before and I missed it?

[Galzria]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

Honestly, either of them could be.

No they can't

Yes, they both could be. Sorry MiX, but you have zero credit when it comes to interpreting anything from your PM’s. You sold town on the idea that your PR was both “the most valuable in the game” (wrong, by miles), and that it could “IC you” (wrong by even more). The fact that you think something from your PR clears Glooble in any way is meaningless. And for pubby, well, he’s just barely the most townie person off the EFHW wagon - but there’s really nothing stopping him from being scum.

[jotheonah]

I'm going to say something that hasn't been explicitly stated yet but I think is important: Scum is in a bad spot right now.

Not only did they lose a player in the D1 lynch, their N1 nightkill got prevented somehow. That's basically the worst position they could be in right now, give or take a N1 scum vig kill. Now exactly how bad depends on how much they gave themselves away yesterday. How many of them were on the wagon, how many of them were obviously trying to stop the wagon. I think it's extra bad. I think EFHW's VLA forced them to play much more obviously than they wanted to and most of them had to give themselves away. That's why I want to lynch the people who tried to stop the EFHW lynch.

So why do I think they're bussing?

Scum busses when cred is more important than survival.

Scum doesn't bus when survival is more important than cred.

Today we have two ICs, which makes cred extra important, and scum is down a player, which makes survival more important. But scum might have three more players left, so this is sort of their last chance to bus for cred and still be in any kind of fighting shape the next day. And if I'm write and the scum team is in the group I think it's in, they have a serious cred deficit.

So how do you gain town cred? A good, strong bus is a pretty reliable way. A plausible but unverifiable towny claim -- like, idk, faust's? -- is also good, though it's high risk.

There are really 4 viable wagons right now (Space, ADK, faust, Eddie), so unless the scum team was OP to begin with, they can't all be scum. But let's imagine, just for fun, that 3/4 are. In that case, a scum team has three options I can think of:

1) Pile on the townie, their only chance for a mislynch. But a smart scum team would know how terrible an idea that is, because tomorrow the survivors all just look even worse.

2) Pile on the least valuable member of the scum team so they can all have a piece of the cred.

3) Spread out, one on the townie and the other two bussing each other in some configuration, probably avoiding the wagon of the most valuable one.

So let's look at the VC

Vote Count 2.12:

faust (3): joth, pubby, Glooble
ADK (3): WCD, Datswan, MiX
Uncle (5): ADK, 2.7, Awaclus, Galzria, Faust
MiX (1): Space
Space (3): shraeye, PPS, Uncle

Not Voting (0):

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

Ignoring MiX's vote, which is inexplicably still on the now-IC'd MiX, we have

No scumspects on faust
No scumspects on ADK
Eddie on Space
faust and ADK on Eddie

This kinda rules out 3. So that leaves 1 or 2, which means Eddie is either scum, if scum is bussing, or town, if scum is not.

So I guess if I really think scum is bussing, I have to conclude that Eddie is scum.

The only thing giving me pause is the Galz factor. Maybe scum feels safe piling on the townie if the IC is on the townie, since that's the ultimate free pass tomorrow.

PPE: A bunch

[jotheonah]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to.

I don't get this, have you explained it before and I missed it?

I hadn't really. I have now.

[jotheonah]

Part of my issue with your wagon is that Galz being there sort of gives people permission, so if you do flip town everyone else on the wagon gets to say "I was just following the IC". It makes it an attractive scum wagon for sure. Of course, if you're scum that's a moot point.

Everyone currently on the Eddie wagon had already voted for Eddie before Galzria voted. This argument is a smokescreen with no actual bearing on the game because noone so far has followed the IC.

That's a fair point, but it doesn't change the fact that Galzria joining the wagon makes it a safe place for scum to hide now.

[Galzria]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to.

I don't get this, have you explained it before and I missed it?

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso. His point is that you can be damn sure they won’t get left off again if we end up lynching scum today because it gives them no chance at arguing their way out on future days.

[jotheonah]

Who do you think is town?

Galz, MiX, myself, WCD

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to.

I don't get this, have you explained it before and I missed it?

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso. His point is that you can be damn sure they won’t get left off again if we end up lynching scum today because it gives them no chance at arguing their way out on future days.

Galz has managed to make my point much more succinctly than my own attempt.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think faust should throw a party for us since he was in our first game and we're still around and playing.

If by party you mean a new RMM, then sure, that can be arranged.

❤️❤️❤️

[Galzria]

I think faust should throw a party for us since he was in our first game and we're still around and playing.

If by party you mean a new RMM, then sure, that can be arranged.

❤️❤️❤️

Stop being scummy & tell me who is scum & why. I’ll make a cocktail (later, when it’s not before 8:00am) in your honor.

[faust]

Who do you think is town?

Galz, MiX, myself, WCD

Is this satire or something?

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I think I will do a claim of sorts here if that’s okay with you people.

[SpaceAnemone]

Here's a list of every vote:

I'm slowly catching up.

For reference, I can auto-generate lists like the one Joth did really easily, should anyone else want that kind of thing for analysis. I find that the full vote count breakdown for each voting point (where I look at all the wagons and who was were) are the most useful thing to spit out and look at, though they also risk cluttering the thread if I post a full day's voting history or something.

[jotheonah]

Who do you think is town?

Galz, MiX, myself, WCD

Is this satire or something?

No moreso than any of my other mafia posts.

[jotheonah]

Here's a list of every vote:

I'm slowly catching up.

For reference, I can auto-generate lists like the one Joth did really easily, should anyone else want that kind of thing for analysis. I find that the full vote count breakdown for each voting point (where I look at all the wagons and who was were) are the most useful thing to spit out and look at, though they also risk cluttering the thread if I post a full day's voting history or something.

That is good to know. I actually find a lot of value in generating them manually as I do a reread, but that also takes freaking forever.

[Uncleeurope]

As I've said before, scum is bussing hard today. They have to. I don't think I want to give these sorts of arguments any weight at all today. In fact, people who are voting for each other today are MORE LIKELY to be partners.

And you're voting me currently, right, with pubby and Glooble? Are they my partners?

Honestly, either of them could be.

Who do you think is town?

Who do you think is town?

And don’t give me the crap about letting scum know who to kill, I am fairly certain they have some guidance about that already.

[faust]

Who do you think is town?

Space, pubby

To a lesser extent: Glooble, Didds, ADK

[WestCoastDidds]

Stop being scummy & tell me who is scum & why. I’ll make a cocktail (later, when it’s not before 8:00am) in your honor.

Deal! I wasn’t trying to be scummy....when I stated reading to get caught up that was the first post I came to and it obvi deserved three hearts right away.

The next post that deserves hearts is your takedown of MiX’s assessment of his PR, which was AMAZING.

Gushing now out of the way....now to your question
My short list is ADK/Eddie/e/Space, and I’d vote for any of them over people not on my list. My leaning scummish are shraeye and faust. I’m less enthusiastic about voting for them, but if they are scum I’d expect them to play well and be further back on the list.

Eddie’s defense doesn’t have much to it, despite the sheer quantity of posts, but it has a heap of righteous indignation. He seems super annoyed that anyone is voting for him, and especially faust. It could be a bus and he’s just selling it. It feels a bit over the top for how far is is from getting lynched at this point, but Joth’s point about scum being in trouble is well taken. If he’s scum, there’d be reason to freak out some.

ADK is under the radar and playing with more reserve than I am accustomed to. I didn’t find the D1 number/name claims to have cleared them at all. I have e in a similar under the radar canoe. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they weren’t paddling it together in a “hang back and let’s just see” kind of way.

I think Shraeye has done a good job of identifying some of the unease with Space. They are generating quite a bit of content, but not in a way that moves us forward. When I contrast them with pubby, whose scummteam narrative was really interesting and led to good info about MiX, I’m even more struck by the lack of forward momentum.

Other folks seem to be having big aha! moments in regard to who is town and why based on the various reveals of information, and that is not happening for me beyond the most obvious. Partly because I have been otherwise engaged and partly because I have a hard time with the big picture unless I started getting things down on paper with arrows, circles, and Venn diagram ish. Anyway, I feel like I am behind the folks who have had the lightbulb go off and those of us still mostly in the dark.

PPE:4

[MiX]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

[SpaceAnemone]

Just read the bit where MiX is IC.

I clearly don't know what's going on at all :-/

Unvote

[Uncleeurope]

Didds went from townreading me to scumreading me, which is unfortunate.

[Glooble]

Vote Count 1.8:

MiX (8): WCD, pubby, Space, Awaclus, Glooble, PPS, ADK, shraeye
Awaclus (1): MiX
2.7 (3): gkrieg, joth, EFHW
joth (1): faust
Datswan (1): Galzria

Not Voting (2): 2.7, Datswan

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

quote author=ashersky link=topic=17915.msg806905#msg806905 date=1564567305]
Day 1 Final Vote Count:

MiX (1): shraeye
EFHW (9): Galzria, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus, joth, Space, Glooble, MiX, 2.7
Galzria (1) EFHW
WCD (1): pubby
joth (3): ADK, faust, Uncle
faust (1): PPS

Not Voting (0):

With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ended at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.
[/quote]

On MiX/ Off EFHW: pubby, PPS, ADK, shraeye
On MiX/ On EFHW: WCD, Space, Awaclus, Glooble
Off MiX/ On EFHW: MiX, joth, Galzria, 2.7, DatSwan
Off MiX/ Off EFHW: gkrieg/Uncle, EFHW, faust,


Now that MiX is essentially IC (barring Godfather, which I doubt ashersky puts in) we should be looking at those four at the top, right? A lot of us have kind of cleared pubby for now, and ADK and shraeye certainly have some heat on them. But did I miss some reason we're giving PPS a pass?

Also is this the ADK case? That he's one of the few on the town wagon but off the scum wagon? I feel like I haven't seen anyone articulate this case, and it makes me slightly more inclined to vote for him, especially because I just reread the MiX wagon and its left me a little more skeptical about the scum!faust theory.

But alas, my lunch break is over, so I have to wait a few hours before following this line of thought any further.

[Glooble]

Dammit, I missed a bracket.

[A Drowned Kernel]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

I promise to never take anything you say seriously ever again

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eddie, what's your position on space?

[MiX]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

I promise to never take anything you say seriously ever again

That's all I ever wanted.

[Uncleeurope]

Fair chance of bad.

In my top 3ish

Probably.

But not more than you.

Im voting for Space currently, though. Soooo, yeah.

[Uncleeurope]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

Because I am the leading wagon and many people not currently voting for me have mentioned wanting to/being okay with voting for me.

[jotheonah]

Fair chance of bad.

In my top 3ish

Probably.

But not more than you.

Im voting for Space currently, though. Soooo, yeah.

Does "Fair chance of bad" mean a baddie (i.e. scum) or a bad lynch (i.e. town). Kind of confusing.

[jotheonah]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

Because I am the leading wagon and many people not currently voting for me have mentioned wanting to/being okay with voting for me.

General advice: I find this tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy once you get yourself in that mindset. I choose to always believe I'll never be lynched, and I never have been*.

*Citation needed.

[MiX]

A note to everyone: you don't need to make it a big deal everytime I say something that isn't 100% true and it's clearly hyperbole. Thank you.

Pubby and Glooble are still the towniest non-ICs.

@Uncle, why do you think you're getting lynched today?

Because I am the leading wagon and many people not currently voting for me have mentioned wanting to/being okay with voting for me.

General advice: I find this tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy once you get yourself in that mindset. I choose to always believe I'll never be lynched, and I never have been*.

I'm living proof the opposite is true.

[Uncleeurope]

Fair chance of bad.

In my top 3ish

Probably.

But not more than you.

Im voting for Space currently, though. Soooo, yeah.

Does "Fair chance of bad" mean a baddie (i.e. scum) or a bad lynch (i.e. town). Kind of confusing.

Baddie.

I’m voting for Space, though, so I feel like that was a confusing question.


And I have been mislynched enough times to warrant some doom and gloom speech. Optimism can’t win all my battles.

And it’s not like I have given up, I just think it is fair to recognize I am the current favorite.

[jotheonah]

I thought you maybe meant "I'm voting here but there's a fair chance I'm wrong" which is a relatable sentiment.

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: ADK

[Swowl]

Who do you think is town?

Space, pubby

To a lesser extent: Glooble, Didds, ADK

What makes adk a town lean for you?

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds went from townreading me to scumreading me, which is unfortunate.

Don't despair! I didn't feel it so fully that I voted for you. But, but, but...the last time you had this level of indignation was in the last lynchpool Less Pressure game and you were scum with ADK (where he was similarly low key). So, it feels familiar.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I’ll help you lynch ADK if you wanna go that route.

[MiX]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

[Galzria]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

[2.71828.....]

I need to reread all the leading wagons. Will do that tomorrow morning.

Until then,

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

So faust, ADK, uncle, and space

[MiX]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

[Galzria]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

He absolutely does it 100% of the time to prevent EFHW from being lynched at all, which damn near happened. I would never, literally ever voted for partner EFHW in his spot.

[MiX]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

He absolutely does it 100% of the time to prevent EFHW from being lynched at all, which damn near happened. I would never, literally ever voted for partner EFHW in his spot.

Yeah, but why would he go everywhere then? Even a temporary bus looks better than doing literally anything else, not to mention more focus makes EFHW not flip.

I do see your point, and it's most likely better than every other case. I know you're an IC and all, but can you answer what his potential partners are?

[Galzria]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

He absolutely does it 100% of the time to prevent EFHW from being lynched at all, which damn near happened. I would never, literally ever voted for partner EFHW in his spot.

Yeah, but why would he go everywhere then? Even a temporary bus looks better than doing literally anything else, not to mention more focus makes EFHW not flip.

I do see your point, and it's most likely better than every other case. I know you're an IC and all, but can you answer what his potential partners are?

Shraeye/Soace/Faust/Pubby/(outside)Awaclus all possible. Probably not ADK given his loud calling for an ADK wagon as soon as he subbed in - but maybe.

[Uncleeurope]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

He absolutely does it 100% of the time to prevent EFHW from being lynched at all, which damn near happened. I would never, literally ever voted for partner EFHW in his spot.

Would you have said you would vote EFHW if it came to that?

[Galzria]

Doing minor very-likely-to-be-wrong VCAs, incredibly annoyed how Eddie is immune to it. Can I call it "The gkrieg curse"? I'll do it anyway.

Otherwise Eddie is voting everywhere EFHW voted, which makes sense considering they were both off me and both on Galzria, but I don't think that matters that much.

What's the case for Eddie-is-scum?

He said he would vote for EFHW, didn’t, and instead voted for every other potentially viable lynch at the end of the day - literally voting for me to “make my wagon as viable as EFHW’s”, and then for Joth once I was no longer possibly viable.

Scum!Eddie knows that EFHW can flip D1 and that behavior will get him lynched D2, which is completely unacceptable. I would treat that as slightly towny from Eddie, he's capable of doing it as scum but I think he would have a very good reason not to and IMO he wouldn't do it.

He absolutely does it 100% of the time to prevent EFHW from being lynched at all, which damn near happened. I would never, literally ever voted for partner EFHW in his spot.

Would you have said you would vote EFHW if it came to that?

I do not believe I’ve ever once said I was unwilling to vote my partner, despite not actually doing so countless times. It’s why actions speak louder than words.

[Uncleeurope]

Well the case on me involves my incompetence/inability to think ahead. Because everything that went down yesterday points with a neon sign that I am bad. I am the last vote on the secondary wagon and everything.

Every single iota of voting information suggests my guilt. All things I would have tried to shut down as scum.

It’s a great case, but it’s too good. I would never have done any of that garbage. Me being under the microscope today is the only result for that.

Slam down next to that idea that I willingly admitted to being inline and ready to hammer... It’s all too convenient.

I dunno, man.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well the case on me involves my incompetence/inability to think ahead. Because everything that went down yesterday points with a neon sign that I am bad. I am the last vote on the secondary wagon and everything.

Every single iota of voting information suggests my guilt. All things I would have tried to shut down as scum.

It’s a great case, but it’s too good. I would never have done any of that garbage. Me being under the microscope today is the only result for that.

Slam down next to that idea that I willingly admitted to being inline and ready to hammer... It’s all too convenient.

I dunno, man.

I mean, you have to concede that we have to take your word for the last bit

[pingpongsam]

Space - actual scum read
Faust - just a pure fear thing, I want to believe he is town bad enough not to vote there
Eddie - only because cases are made, actual gut read is he is town
ADK - I haven’t really followed cases here but he seems a high preference

Pubby - I could see scum here priority reread, I had heretofore been ton reading but forgot why which is probably a good thing for me to do

Pretty much the same story for shraeye and Glooble except I remember the Glooble claim was a strong town read for me. Yeah, not voting Glooble today unless he claims scum somehow


didds - /dev/null
e - nullicious
Swan - null

Galz, MiX, Joth, and awac are all strong town reads for various reasons ranging from obvious to gut.

Commitment to reread Pubby, shraeye, didds, e, and Swan.

[2.71828.....]

ok, read through faust.

Very active, and very independent.  I feel as though faust has been going through, creating wagons, having ideas, jumping his vote around when a new idea hits.  All in a very townie way.

Consider the EFHW wagon and WHY he jumped off.  Because no alternative wagons were being formed which caused hi to believe that EFHW was town and scum were riding the wagon out until lynch.  Looking back, we know this isn't true, but I like his reasoning here.  rings townie to me.

Today he has done a lot of defending himself, some claiming, and other stuff.  His voting and play today is consistent with D1, and it all comes from a a townie lean I think.

Don't think I will be voting faust today.

[2.71828.....]

Reading ADK.  So much scummier than faust.

votes EFHW, votes elsewhere later when the wagon heats up.
votes faust D2 right out the gate as "obvious" for doing what they did
out the gate claiming a number of 6
generally scummy

I would vote here, but need to read through the others on my list

[2.71828.....]

Much faster reread of Eddie.

Biggest point: Eddie and ADK are not on the same team.  If there are multiple scum teams, they could potentially both be scum, but NOT on the same team.  Eddie's entire existence from his first post has been to say ADK is scummy.

Right now I actually like lynching ADK over Eddie.  If ADK flips town (or even 3rd party of some sort) suspicion falls on Eddie.  Flips scum?  Eddie is town.

[faust]

Right now I actually like lynching ADK over Eddie.  If ADK flips town (or even 3rd party of some sort) suspicion falls on Eddie.  Flips scum?  Eddie is town.

Does that not hold the other way around?

[2.71828.....]

Right now I actually like lynching ADK over Eddie.  If ADK flips town (or even 3rd party of some sort) suspicion falls on Eddie.  Flips scum?  Eddie is town.

Does that not hold the other way around?

It might, but not as strongly and I also think ADK just reads scummier in general

[2.71828.....]

still have to read space, breakfast first though. 

[2.71828.....]

still have to read space, breakfast first though.

read Space, don't really get why people are calling them scum?  They haven't done anything Townie or Scummy....just Space-y. 

So of the 4 leading wagons, I am leaning toward ADK right now.  I will probably go back and detail better why I think ADK is scum, but later.

[A Drowned Kernel]

At lot of people (I'm assuming scum's in there somewhere) seem to be okay with voting me, so I'm just going to go ahead an claim so that hopefully those votes and efforts can go somewhere more useful.

I am John Pope. And I'm a Survivor.

[faust]

Vote: ADK

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: ADK

[faust]

Do you have any powers that would be useful to town?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you have any powers that would be useful to town?

Yup

[faust]

Do you have any powers that would be useful to town?

Yup

What are they?

[2.71828.....]

Do you have any powers that would be useful to town?

Yup

What are they?

I am open to keeping a survivor around, but only if this question gets answered

[MiX]

I'm not open to have a survivor live. On the other hand, I'm certain he's not scum because that must be his real role. I must ponder.

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

I'm not open to have a survivor live. On the other hand, I'm certain he's not scum because that must be his real role. I must ponder.

Unvote

I am more open given the D1 scum lynch and no NK. Generally, yes. Lynching survivors is the right call. Here it might not be as important. Lynching a different person might be better for us

[2.71828.....]

Much faster reread of Eddie.

Biggest point: Eddie and ADK are not on the same team.  If there are multiple scum teams, they could potentially both be scum, but NOT on the same team.  Eddie's entire existence from his first post has been to say ADK is scummy.

Right now I actually like lynching ADK over Eddie.  If ADK flips town (or even 3rd party of some sort) suspicion falls on Eddie.  Flips scum?  Eddie is town.

For example, I think we may do better to lynch Eddie today over a survivor

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you have any powers that would be useful to town?

Yup

What are they?

I have a (one shot) dayvig

I'm certainly open to using it in a pro-town fashion, since town is pretty clearly the winning horse here

[faust]

I'm not open to have a survivor live. On the other hand, I'm certain he's not scum because that must be his real role. I must ponder.

Unvote

Why must that be his real role?

[MiX]

Perhaps, but between 100% non-town lynch and <50% scum lynch I would take the former. Hopefully there's a better lynch than this but I would need to apply "ADK isn't scum" to my VCA and see if Eddie is always scum.

I'm not open to have a survivor live. On the other hand, I'm certain he's not scum because that must be his real role. I must ponder.

Unvote

Why must that be his real role?

His fakeclaim is Matt Mason. He could be lying, but then he would open himself to a counterclaim.

[faust]

His fakeclaim is Matt Mason. He could be lying, but then he would open himself to a counterclaim.

So we know it's his real flavor. Why does that inform us about his role?

[MiX]

His fakeclaim is Matt Mason. He could be lying, but then he would open himself to a counterclaim.

So we know it's his real flavor. Why does that inform us about his role?

Mispoke, I guess. John Pope's more survivor than scum, however.

[Glooble]

Part of me wants ADK to use his vig kill now on his top scumread. If that person ends up being scum, we let ADK live to the end (unless scum kills him.) Otherwise, we lynch him. Unless the dead townie's flip gives us a better lynch option.

Or we could let ADK live on the condition that he let us direct his vig kill tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

Part of me wants ADK to use his vig kill now on his top scumread. If that person ends up being scum, we let ADK live to the end (unless scum kills him.) Otherwise, we lynch him. Unless the dead townie's flip gives us a better lynch option.

Or we could let ADK live on the condition that he let us direct his vig kill tomorrow.

I don't like that first option at all.  I also think his utilization of the vig kill is dependent on how lynches/kills go.  I lean toward him never using it at all.  For now.  That could change tomorrow or D4

[Glooble]

Fair enough. I lean towards getting the shot used early so it doesn't become a liability later.

[Galzria]

Not lynching ADK.

[Galzria]

vote: Faust

[Glooble]

I believe ADK's claim. Just read John Pope's wiki entry, and the only alignments that make sense for him are town or 3rd party. Since ADK already gave up his provided fake claim I think he's almost certainly telling the truth.

(more details: looking at John Pope's wiki entry, there's no way he has a flavor number higher than 5. Ash's setup post strongly implies, though I guess it doesn't say outright, that provided fake claims would be higher than 5, so I don't think it's possible that Matt Mason and John Pope are both fake claims provided to different scum players. ADK is either telling the truth or he took a shot in the dark that John Pope isn't in the game, which seems like an insanely high risk move as scum.)

Given that, I think we should keep him alive, because he's more like town than he is like scum, at least as long as town is winning. I don't love keeping him alive with a dayvig shot that he could use on us if the tables started to turn.

[MiX]

16 players, 1 survivor, no multiball...I bet there's 4 scum, possibly 1 traitor.

PPE: I agree with Glooble, ADK should use their vig shot before they can team up with scum. But today's too early. Also, you meant John Pope's number can't be LOWER than 5?

[shraeye]

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

Galz, why is faust better vote than Eddie?

ADK, why should it still be Eddie?

[Glooble]

16 players, 1 survivor, no multiball...I bet there's 4 scum, possibly 1 traitor.

PPE: I agree with Glooble, ADK should use their vig shot before they can team up with scum. But today's too early. Also, you meant John Pope's number can't be LOWER than 5?

Yes that’s what I meant.

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy cow! Well, we knew ADK wasn't town, so there's that. Unless he is lying, which is what he was doing before about his name claim, but still... let's go with

vote: Eddie

[jotheonah]

He could also be lying about the day if being 1-shot. So it’s folly to assume that him using it “gets it out of the way”.

[MiX]

Holy cow! Well, we knew ADK wasn't town, so there's that. Unless he is lying, which is what he was doing before about his name claim, but still... let's go with

vote: Eddie

Did we now...I presume most of the case against them was their non-bussing of EFHW, right?

Shraeye, I meant "4 scum, 1 OF THEM possibly traitor". Interesting how you also think there's 4 scum.

[Galzria]

Holy cow! Well, we knew ADK wasn't town, so there's that. Unless he is lying, which is what he was doing before about his name claim, but still... let's go with

vote: Eddie

Did we now...I presume most of the case against them was their non-bussing of EFHW, right?

Shraeye, I meant "4 scum, 1 OF THEM possibly traitor". Interesting how you also think there's 4 scum.

There being 4 scum has been obvious since Day 2 began.

[MiX]

Holy cow! Well, we knew ADK wasn't town, so there's that. Unless he is lying, which is what he was doing before about his name claim, but still... let's go with

vote: Eddie

Did we now...I presume most of the case against them was their non-bussing of EFHW, right?

Shraeye, I meant "4 scum, 1 OF THEM possibly traitor". Interesting how you also think there's 4 scum.

There being 4 scum has been obvious since Day 2 began.

Highly likely but not obvious, at least for me.

[Galzria]

He could also be lying about the day if being 1-shot. So it’s folly to assume that him using it “gets it out of the way”.

Easy enough check. We have him use it today & then have him input the same order tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

He could also be lying about the day if being 1-shot. So it’s folly to assume that him using it “gets it out of the way”.

Easy enough check. We have him use it today & then have him input the same order tomorrow.

Or.....never use it and if ADK uses it they get lynched.

[2.71828.....]

If we want to do any sort of "check" I say no lynch today and have them day big tomorrow

[Awaclus]

I'm in favor of letting a survivor live since we're, as far as we can tell, doing pretty well so far which makes the survivor want to win with town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

Galz, why is faust better vote than Eddie?

ADK, why should it still be Eddie?

Eddie's my best bet for being EFHW's partner

My proposal for the dayvig would be to essentially use it to lynch twice in a day; get a town consensus on a lynch, I shoot them, then we have an extra lynch that day

Probably too late in the day for that now though

[Galzria]

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

Galz, why is faust better vote than Eddie?

ADK, why should it still be Eddie?

Eddie's my best bet for being EFHW's partner

My proposal for the dayvig would be to essentially use it to lynch twice in a day; get a town consensus on a lynch, I shoot them, then we have an extra lynch that day

Probably too late in the day for that now though

I would be fine shooting Eddie & then either no-lynching if we hit scum (unless we feel confident on finding an Eddie/EFHW partner), or lynching amongst Faust/Space/Shraeye if we hit town.

[Galzria]

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

Galz, why is faust better vote than Eddie?

ADK, why should it still be Eddie?

Eddie's my best bet for being EFHW's partner

My proposal for the dayvig would be to essentially use it to lynch twice in a day; get a town consensus on a lynch, I shoot them, then we have an extra lynch that day

Probably too late in the day for that now though

I would be fine shooting Eddie & then either no-lynching if we hit scum (unless we feel confident on finding an Eddie/EFHW partner), or lynching amongst Faust/Space/Shraeye if we hit town.

I would actually be strongly in favor of this. My PR is especially useful if scum dies - and it allows for a much better night time outcome for town.

[Uncleeurope]

Can we wait for the Mod to confirm something with me before we progress down this line of thinking.

[MiX]

Can we wait for the Mod to confirm something with me before we progress down this line of thinking.

Can you claim first?

Hey, my PR is especially useful if TOWN dies, synergy!

[Uncleeurope]

I need to clarify something about my role before I can properly claim.

[Swowl]

unvote

Traveling home, so no more vla sometime tomorrow when i arrive.

I need to catch back up before deciding on new vote placement.

I am inclined to believe ADK:
1) my read as skum can be replaced as a 3rd party read
2) It makes vca from day 1 make more sense in terms of what i have put forth as for potentially isolating skum partners of EFHW.
3) they said they have day Vig... not usually a skum role right?


Paranoia counter point - if adk is lying he is probably traitor because {insert usual obv reasons here}. Pope could even be a traitor in terms of flavor but guess.

Idk how i feel about the shot being used - if we use it though, i think the obv play is to let Galz direct the kill.

[Swowl]

He could also be lying about the day if being 1-shot. So it’s folly to assume that him using it “gets it out of the way”.

Easy enough check. We have him use it today & then have him input the same order tomorrow.

Does day Vig always have to be publicly listed? If not, that would be a problem. In fact if not, if adk is skum, he probably is not the vig. Not that that really matter i guess, skum is skum and i think if adk is any form of skum it’s traitor.

But the public listing part is important.

[Swowl]

Adk is this one of those day Vig’s that give us an extension on the day?
If so, how long?

[pingpongsam]

I prefer using the shot and Galz calling it. This is assuming it allows day to continue.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Adk is this one of those day Vig’s that give us an extension on the day?
If so, how long?

No, and I do have to publicly shoot

[MiX]

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

[A Drowned Kernel]

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

I'm willing to let Eddie claim before shooting, at the very least

[Uncleeurope]

Thanks, once Ash checks in and answers a question I will claim.

I can do half now, if people would like... But I would probably prefer to get it all done at once.

Here’s the deal though, maybe the shot should go somewhere else and you can lynch after? Since y’all are already voting me anyway... *hopeful smile*

What I can guarantee, though, is that my claim won’t change anyone’s mind about me, I don’t think. So maybe not a guarantee, after all.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, since I am about to have been Vig’d as town two games in a row...

I feel like people are having some trouble reading me.

Haha

[MiX]

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

I'm willing to let Eddie claim before shooting, at the very least

Okay now I feel stupid.

Also, since I am about to have been Vig’d as town two games in a row...

I feel like people are having some trouble reading me.

Haha

They are. Although you were incredibly towny last game, so it's not really the same. Who would you vig instead?

[MiX]

Also, if you can, don't full claim every single last bit of every role you have: given I'm inheriting it, maybe we need some of it hidden. Maybe.

[Uncleeurope]

Faust, probably. Just based on the Joth wagon, though...

Scummiest acting person might be e for his wordplay regarding me/ADK just now and Faust/MiX(?) earlier. I dunno his town meta but he seems to be setting up odd pairings of people and hoping if one is revealed town the other is confirmed evil. I dislike those things so it makes me wary.

So maybe e, actually. Probably would prefer to wait tomorrow, though.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, if you can, don't full claim every single last bit of every role you have: given I'm inheriting it, maybe we need some of it hidden. Maybe.

I don’t think you can inherit mine.

Well, I can think of how Ash might finagle something, but it seems odd.

[Uncleeurope]

Regarding vig crap, though, I would obviously defer to you or Galz, my primary scum read was ADK, and with that out of the way I am left looking for a suitable replacement.

[MiX]

Also, if you can, don't full claim every single last bit of every role you have: given I'm inheriting it, maybe we need some of it hidden. Maybe.

I don’t think you can inherit mine.

Well, I can think of how Ash might finagle something, but it seems odd.

I'm fairly certain I can...although maybe I can't. Still, I think it's safe to assume I can.

Regarding vig crap, though, I would obviously defer to you or Galz, my primary scum read was ADK, and with that out of the way I am left looking for a suitable replacement.

Which is why I asked you that question. I don't think the answer's very important, but still.

This reminds me of RMM52...let's hope Space doesn't quickhammer while I sleep. Which is now.

In case you die while I'm gone, well, you're good at being scum and everyone fears you.

[Uncleeurope]

Awww, that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me.

I’m tearing up.

[SpaceAnemone]

No quickhammering from me :-P

I'm semi-VLA at the moment, and I'm not sure why I didn't think to post a VLA note rather than trying to keep up, given that I'm away from home visiting friends. I'm going to be fully VLA for most of tomorrow, but I'll be home again by the end of the day.

[SpaceAnemone]

I have been trying to catch up and think over the past 30 mins or so, though. My host went to bed already because he's more sensible than me given that we have to be up in the morning really early for a Sunday.

Anyway, I've been looking at ADK's claim. The most interesting thing about them perhaps being third party is that they were voting Joth for a lot of time while the EFHW wagon was a going concern: ADK voted at #733 (~30 hours before deadline), and faust joined them at #746 (~22 hours before deadline). MiX joined very briefly, but other than that, the wagon on Joth was static with just those two votes up to #885 (45 minutes to deadline). Why weren't other scums voting there, if the other non-singleton alternatives were to bus EFHW or to sit on a wagon she was already on, which isn't great for PoE later in the game? I mean, maybe they're all just the singleton voters, but I have to wonder what made ADK and faust's wagon on Joth look so unappealing to scums who should have been interested in moving elsewhere.

One option is just that all non-bussing scums were on Galz, though I have better PoE than most there, and I also townread Glooble, so that seems less possible to me. The other likely option is that one of Joth and faust is already scum, and so the incentive for more scum to have piled in there was much reduced. (The third quite-likely option is just that ADK might be scum after all).

It's not the strongest evidence ever, but having coloured ADK as third-party in my voting records, it is something that seems worth bringing up. Below are a couple of vote counts from relevant places: one just after faust had voted at #746, and one just before MiX jumped ever-so-briefly ontl Joth at #885. (Joth did then make it up to 4 votes with the addition of Eddie at #893, then down to 3 votes again at #896 then MiX moved back to EFHW).

#746
2.71828..... (1): Uncleeurope
EFHW (6): MiX, pingpongsam, Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus
Galzria (2): EFHW, Glooble
Uncleeurope (1): 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1): Shraeye
pingpongsam (1): jotheonah
MiX (1): pubby
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone

#884
Galzria (4): EFHW, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, Uncleeurope
EFHW (6): Galzria, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Awaclus, jotheonah, MiX
jotheonah (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
faust (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
MiX (1): Shraeye
WestCoastDidds (1): pubby

[faust]

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

I think scum is at least 4 people. Town seems to be kind of powerful, so maybe you could pull off 5 scum? Probably not with a Survivor also though. So if ADK is telling the truth, then I expect exactly 4 scum, barring multiball.

[faust]

The dayvig thing makes it very likely that ADK is telling the truth... scum wouldn't have 2 extra killing roles.

Okay then. Vote: shraeye

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.13:

faust (4): joth, pubby, Glooble, Galzria
ADK (1): Uncle
Uncle (3): ADK, Awaclus, WCD
MiX (1): Space
Space (2): shraeye, PPS
shraeye (1): faust

Not Voting (3): Space, 2.7, MiX, Datswan

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[jotheonah]

The dayvig thing makes it very likely that ADK is telling the truth... scum wouldn't have 2 extra killing roles.

Okay then. Vote: shraeye

2?

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, first and foremost, I know for certain two flavor names that are in this game for sure (or at least it is strongly implied)

I can also assume that the two names are on the same team (implied and intuitive)

I can hunch myself into them both being town (based on what the names are and other balance implications, although I don’t know the flavor well enough to be sure)

So basically, I can confirm two people are not using fake claims and we can assume they are on a team.

If you feel so inclined you can treat it as a double town ressult on these two people based on other crap.

That’s part one, and sadly the only real information I can provide. If you still plan on killing me, allow me to say what the two names are before doing so, otherwise I will keep them to myself.

Part two is when I have to get more vague and won’t ever reveal everything.

Lynching me results in three bad things and two good things. (I clarified this and day-vig counts as lynch here)

Bad things:
1. A town is dead (harhar)
2. A minor debuff happens to a (presumed) town
3. A positive part of my role that may or may not happen later can’t happen

Good things:
1. A minor buff happens to a (presumed) town
2. A negative part of my role that may or may not happen later can’t happen


So, yeah. Me dying here has lotsa stuff that happens.

Any questions?

[Galzria]

The dayvig thing makes it very likely that ADK is telling the truth... scum wouldn't have 2 extra killing roles.

Okay then. Vote: shraeye

2?

EFHW Active PGO

[Uncleeurope]

The dayvig thing makes it very likely that ADK is telling the truth... scum wouldn't have 2 extra killing roles.

Okay then. Vote: shraeye

2?

EFHW Active PGO

Where did it say that? I musta missed that one.

[pubby]

MiX said he copied that ability from EFHW with his backup power.

[Uncleeurope]

Right right right.

I remember now.

[Swowl]

Wow... so that claim is a lot. Idk what to do with that. It initially has me leaning towards town on Eddie now... i think

[Uncleeurope]

Meanwhile I keep finding DatSwan squint-worthy.

 But that’s bound to happen.

[Galzria]

Wow... so that claim is a lot. Idk what to do with that. It initially has me leaning towards town on Eddie now... i think

Why

[Swowl]

Wow... so that claim is a lot. Idk what to do with that. It initially has me leaning towards town on Eddie now... i think

Why

Because the description of his role makes it too easy to just say screw it and shoot him. I don’t think skum is likely to manufacture a role in that way.

[Swowl]

Meanwhile I keep finding DatSwan squint-worthy.

 But that’s bound to happen.

It’s ok, i have service and can start talking now.... it was bound to happen.

[Galzria]

Wow... so that claim is a lot. Idk what to do with that. It initially has me leaning towards town on Eddie now... i think

Why

Because the description of his role makes it too easy to just say screw it and shoot him. I don’t think skum is likely to manufacture a role in that way.

The flavor names he knows could easily just be his partner’s fake claims, and he’s told us essentially nothing else about his role.

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, but when one dies, you get an honest to goodness Cop result on the other.

Oh, and the connectivity of the names might suggest it being less random than you might think.

Plus, what if one of the names is yours.

[2.71828.....]

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

Uh, I oppose. And while I believe that you are totally town ceding your opinions to galzria is scummy.

I do see how it could actually be best to let ADK shoot rather than lynching.

[Galzria]

Yup, but when one dies, you get an honest to goodness Cop result on the other.

Oh, and the connectivity of the names might suggest it being less random than you might think.

Plus, what if one of the names is yours.

I think my name is pretty obvious to anybody that wants to know it at this point...

[Galzria]

vote: Shraeye

[Galzria]

Faust: Who would you Vig if you were picking?

[2.71828.....]

I don't remember much about shraeye, but what I do is townie.

Did I miss a case against shraeye somewhere? Why all the she's votes?

[2.71828.....]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

[2.71828.....]

To get them to claim? Sorry, walking dogs and posting on my phone, forgot to finish my thought

[pubby]

Eddie's claim doesn't look too good to me. I believe what he said was true, but I don't think it proves his alignment.

Current belief is that matching flavor names with players is bad for town. His plan to reveal names and then have people claim if they have those names seems... very anti-town from what we know at the moment. And knowing flavor names strikes me more as a scum ability than as a town one.

Was anyone else provided flavor names at the beginning?

[pubby]

@eddie: Can you reveal the negative part of your role?

[faust]

The dayvig thing makes it very likely that ADK is telling the truth... scum wouldn't have 2 extra killing roles.

Okay then. Vote: shraeye

2?

EFHW was a PGO according to MiX.

[faust]

Faust: Who would you Vig if you were picking?

shraeye maybe? But possibly joth. I think shraeye is scummier but with joth I am more worried that he'll never get lynched.

[MiX]

*yawn* Okay let's process this claim:

- Knows two flavors that are town.

- When he dies, one of them gets a debuff whereas the other one gets a buff

- Has a random thing that could be good or bad and killing him stops it.

So first of all, the claim's a bunch of nothing. I mean, what do you even do at night? Second of all, why aren't you outing which flavors are confirmed town? Worst case scenario scum fakeclaims them and enters conflicts, right?

I'll need to input "ADK and Eddie is town" in my VCA, I think the logical conclusion is that at least one scum bussed, even if it was faust. But I'll have to double check that.

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

Uh, I oppose. And while I believe that you are totally town ceding your opinions to galzria is scummy.

He's the one that has a secret PR, I don't know how good it is to have ADK shoot without that information.


Where am I voting?

Vote: shraeye

[Glooble]

Eddie is either town or scum who has played in enough ashersky-run role madness games to know not to try and claim a “normal” role. My role is also a whole pile of stuff, so he got that part right.

[MiX]

Eddie is either town or scum who has played in enough ashersky-run role madness games to know not to try and claim a “normal” role. My role is also a whole pile of stuff, so he got that part right.

Or scum that has a partner that has played in enough ash RMMs. I wouldn't know, but I bet EFHW fills the bill, right?

[MiX]

Space is scum every way I look at the VCA.

Vote: Space

This is due to their Galz vote and subsequent bussing, which makes them appear in every scummy list, they're even the most likely partner with shraeye when he looks scummier, it's crazy!

This is all assuming ADK and Eddie aren't scum, however.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eddie is either town or scum who has played in enough ashersky-run role madness games to know not to try and claim a “normal” role. My role is also a whole pile of stuff, so he got that part right.

This could all also all be true and he could still be scum

[A Drowned Kernel]

Eddie is either town or scum who has played in enough ashersky-run role madness games to know not to try and claim a “normal” role. My role is also a whole pile of stuff, so he got that part right.

This could all also all be true and he could still be scum

The stuff he claimed, that is

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, I think I am still leaving towards lynching Eddie given all the claims, vote counts, and play

Vote: Uncleeurope

[MiX]

Okay, so do we shoot him or lynch him? I'm fine either way, but I guess lynching is better to wait for more information?

Vote: Eddie

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.14:

faust (3): joth, pubby, Glooble
ADK (1): Uncle
Uncle (5): ADK, Awaclus, WCD, 2.7, MiX
MiX (1): Space
Space (2): shraeye, PPS
shraeye (2): faust, Galzria

Not Voting (2): Datswan

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[pubby]

Shooting is better in case he was lying about how his effect triggers.

I don't know if I agree with killing him tonight. A mislynch would kill 2 townies.

[pubby]

*today, not tonight

[faust]

Okay, so do we shoot him or lynch him? I'm fine either way, but I guess lynching is better to wait for more information?

Vote: Eddie

Shooting is better.

[faust]

Actually... MiX, can you inherit 1-shot powers that have been used?

[2.71828.....]

Actually... MiX, can you inherit 1-shot powers that have been used?

Lynching ADK and giving MiX the shot? I thought about that.

[2.71828.....]

But I think I prefer lynching Eddie over that idea

[shraeye]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

[MiX]

Actually... MiX, can you inherit 1-shot powers that have been used?

I don't know. I've asked a similar question to ash and haven't gotten a response.

Okay, so do we shoot him or lynch him? I'm fine either way, but I guess lynching is better to wait for more information?

Vote: Eddie

Shooting is better.

Why is shooting better? If we want ADK to be out of a shot, can't we force them to shoot D3 instead?

PPE: Yeah that seems correct.

[2.71828.....]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

I think vig ends the day, so it wouldn't be big+lynch today

[shraeye]

Space is scum every way I look at the VCA.

Vote: Space

This is due to their Galz vote and subsequent bussing, which makes them appear in every scummy list, they're even the most likely partner with shraeye when he looks scummier, it's crazy!

This is all assuming ADK and Eddie aren't scum, however.

While I resent the implication that I could be Space's partner, I'm chuffed to bits that you've seen the light and figured out Space is scum.

[MiX]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

I think vig ends the day, so it wouldn't be big+lynch today

Does it? If so then yes, shoot, otherwise keeping it seems better.

Wait what's the point of dayvig if all it does is give you infinite votes?

[jotheonah]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

We have no guarantee ADK is around tomorrow. Scum will kill whomever they think is most dangerous to them, even a third party.

[MiX]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

We have no guarantee ADK is around tomorrow. Scum will kill whomever they think is most dangerous to them, even a third party.

I am so accepting a third-party dayvig dying, especially when I get the shot.

[2.71828.....]

Looked up to confirm what I was thinking

Lynching me results in three bad things and two good things. (I clarified this and day-vig counts as lynch here)

Vig ends day based on this.

[MiX]

Looked up to confirm what I was thinking

Lynching me results in three bad things and two good things. (I clarified this and day-vig counts as lynch here)

Vig ends day based on this.

That's different, Eddie probably has "if you die during the day" or just "not NKd" (or whatever is equivelent), he doesn't have access to ADK's role to know otherwise.

[2.71828.....]

Looked up to confirm what I was thinking

Lynching me results in three bad things and two good things. (I clarified this and day-vig counts as lynch here)

Vig ends day based on this.

That's different, Eddie probably has "if you die during the day" or just "not NKd" (or whatever is equivelent), he doesn't have access to ADK's role to know otherwise.

Oh, ok. I guess I should ask for clarification

[2.71828.....]

Another thought. There was a very specific 2 hour twilight phase at the end of D1.

ADK- can you shoot during twilight?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Another thought. There was a very specific 2 hour twilight phase at the end of D1.

ADK- can you shoot during twilight?

The power specifies that I can't shoot during twilight. It doesn't specify anything about ending the day but I asked just to be sure.

[faust]

Okay, so do we shoot him or lynch him? I'm fine either way, but I guess lynching is better to wait for more information?

Vote: Eddie

Shooting is better.

Why is shooting better? If we want ADK to be out of a shot, can't we force them to shoot D3 instead?

PPE: Yeah that seems correct.

If we get more flips sooner, our PRs can make more informed decisions the next night.

[MiX]

I would rather have more informed lynches than more informed PR targetting.

[Uncleeurope]

Looked up to confirm what I was thinking

Lynching me results in three bad things and two good things. (I clarified this and day-vig counts as lynch here)

Vig ends day based on this.

That's different, Eddie probably has "if you die during the day" or just "not NKd" (or whatever is equivelent), he doesn't have access to ADK's role to know otherwise.

Oh, ok. I guess I should ask for clarification

The day wouldn’t end.

[Uncleeurope]

@eddie: Can you reveal the negative part of your role?

No.

[MiX]

Ah, you're here. I don't think anyone wants you alive. What do you think the downsides of claiming the two roles you know are?

[Uncleeurope]

*yawn* Okay let's process this claim:

- Knows two flavors that are town.

- When he dies, one of them gets a debuff whereas the other one gets a buff

- Has a random thing that could be good or bad and killing him stops it.

So first of all, the claim's a bunch of nothing. I mean, what do you even do at night? Second of all, why aren't you outing which flavors are confirmed town? Worst case scenario scum fakeclaims them and enters conflicts, right?

I'll need to input "ADK and Eddie is town" in my VCA, I think the logical conclusion is that at least one scum bussed, even if it was faust. But I'll have to double check that.

So are we shooting? Galz said "strongly in favor" of shooting, I said sure, I don't think anyone opposes (or can oppose, Galz is calling the shoots here, literally).

What are you waiting for? Further confirmation?

Uh, I oppose. And while I believe that you are totally town ceding your opinions to galzria is scummy.

He's the one that has a secret PR, I don't know how good it is to have ADK shoot without that information.


Where am I voting?

Vote: shraeye

The thing that happens later is good AND bad.

Now you know why I find it complicated what you can possibly inherit here.

And I would prefer to hide flavor names because there seems to be concern that they have power, and spilling those out late game could be more impactful. Of course this is all contingent on me being alive to make judgement calls later on, if I’m going to be dead I may as well dump my brain out.

[MiX]

And I would prefer to hide flavor names because there seems to be concern that they have power, and spilling those out late game could be more impactful. Of course this is all contingent on me being alive to make judgement calls later on, if I’m going to be dead I may as well dump my brain out.

I don't see much difference in outing them now or after everyone claims: sure, scum can't conflict in the latter scenario, but...that's it. Is conflicting really that bad for town at this stage?

[Uncleeurope]

It’s not about doing it after claims, it’s about postponing flavor name revealing:

That being said, Does town still want me dead? Would you people like me to claim my two names?

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, I think I am still leaving towards lynching Eddie given all the claims, vote counts, and play

Vote: Uncleeurope

Your gut told you I was town, though.

This is a scummy vote.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It’s not about doing it after claims, it’s about postponing flavor name revealing:

That being said, Does town still want me dead? Would you people like me to claim my two names?

If you think that that's helpful, go for it

[MiX]

It’s not about doing it after claims, it’s about postponing flavor name revealing:

That being said, Does town still want me dead? Would you people like me to claim my two names?

I'm almost certain town will kill you today, yes. Unless you have a better alternative?

[Uncleeurope]

It’s not about doing it after claims, it’s about postponing flavor name revealing:

That being said, Does town still want me dead? Would you people like me to claim my two names?

I'm almost certain town will kill you today, yes. Unless you have a better alternative?

The best alternative I have is “You guys realize that most of you think I am town already and just lynch someone else”

We’ll see how that works.

[MiX]

It’s not about doing it after claims, it’s about postponing flavor name revealing:

That being said, Does town still want me dead? Would you people like me to claim my two names?

I'm almost certain town will kill you today, yes. Unless you have a better alternative?

The best alternative I have is “You guys realize that most of you think I am town already and just lynch someone else”

We’ll see how that works.

Who is this "someone else"? Last time I asked something like this you didn't really have a solid pick, do you have one now?

[Uncleeurope]

Nope.

[shraeye]

Yeah, I think I am still leaving towards lynching Eddie given all the claims, vote counts, and play

Vote: Uncleeurope

Your gut told you I was town, though.

This is a scummy vote.

I can't find the gut-read you're talking about

[Uncleeurope]

That is fair, I was thinking of PPS’s post.

Carry on, folks.

[Galzria]

ADK,

If you were picking between Shraeye, pubby & e, which would you choose and why?

MiX, which of those would you shoot here?

[MiX]

ADK,

If you were picking between Shraeye, pubby & e, which would you choose and why?

MiX, which of those would you shoot here?

None...it's an incredibly hard choice. I would shoot just about everyone else before those 3 (except Glooble).

Maybe.....shraeye? But I'm far from certain on this.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK,

If you were picking between Shraeye, pubby & e, which would you choose and why?

MiX, which of those would you shoot here?

I'm on my phone but based on what I remember from those three i would pick e over shraeye over pubby

Pubby's various claims and assumptions about the setup are too weird to come from scum

[Swowl]

Wow... so that claim is a lot. Idk what to do with that. It initially has me leaning towards town on Eddie now... i think

Why

Because the description of his role makes it too easy to just say screw it and shoot him. I don’t think skum is likely to manufacture a role in that way.

The flavor names he knows could easily just be his partner’s fake claims, and he’s told us essentially nothing else about his role.

When EFHW flipped they flipped “Masquerading” as Dan Weaver. I assumed that meant dan weaver was their fake claim.
If they all flip with their fake claims... it would be kind of dumb for him to use buddy fakes if he is skum.

And yeah it told us nothing. That is my point. In his spot, as skum, i feel like he would try harder to live by making himself more valuable. He pretty much did the opposite of that.

[Galzria]

Eddie, what is your flavor name?

[shraeye]

If you were picking between Shraeye, pubby & e, which would you choose and why?

MiX, which of those would you shoot here?

None...it's an incredibly hard choice. I would shoot just about everyone else before those 3 (except Glooble).

Maybe.....shraeye? But I'm far from certain on this.

You voted for me just 5 hours ago.  But now choosing me out of a list is incredibly hard?  I'm worth a lynch but not a vig-shot?

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie, what is your flavor name?

Can’t tell you. Which is a bummer.

I think I will announce my two names now, I am just going to stress that if I do nobody claims them if they can avoid it.

Is that fair?

[Galzria]

Eddie, what is your flavor name?

Can’t tell you. Which is a bummer.

I think I will announce my two names now, I am just going to stress that if I do nobody claims them if they can avoid it.

Is that fair?

If you don’t tell us your flavor name, ADK can shoot you and we’ll find out that way.

[Uncleeurope]

The best result for town is you finding out my name on my gravestone.

Well, under never finding it out.

[Galzria]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

[MiX]

The best result for town is you finding out my name on my gravestone.

Well, under never finding it out.

You're already dead, you just haven't recieved eternal silence. Tell us your flavor claim.

[Uncleeurope]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

[MiX]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Why shoot and not just lynch? I forgot.

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Yes!

[Galzria]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Nope. Don’t need to know any more than scum does.

[Uncleeurope]

The best result for town is you finding out my name on my gravestone.

Well, under never finding it out.

You're already dead, you just haven't recieved eternal silence. Tell us your flavor claim.

Why? If I am destined to die then that’s just silly.

[Galzria]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Why shoot and not just lynch? I forgot.

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Yes!

Two chances to hit scum. I’m gain advantages every time a scum dies.

[Uncleeurope]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Nope. Don’t need to know any more than scum does.

This makes negative sense.

I must be missing something.

[MiX]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Nope. Don’t need to know any more than scum does.

Okay wait I don't understand this part, why shouldn't he claim the flavor names he knows? The information will be lost to the wind otherwise.

PPE: I don't understand either.

[MiX]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Why shoot and not just lynch? I forgot.

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Yes!

Two chances to hit scum. I’m gain advantages every time a scum dies.

At least this makes sense, I'm on board with shooting today now.

[Galzria]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Nope. Don’t need to know any more than scum does.

Okay wait I don't understand this part, why shouldn't he claim the flavor names he knows? The information will be lost to the wind otherwise.

PPE: I don't understand either.

Why should he out two townies names? That information isn’t lost - those players are still alive and kicking. But scum knowing names could help identify players at night.

[MiX]

Alright, then ADK I think you should Vig Eddie.

Time for me to claim my two names, then?

Nope. Don’t need to know any more than scum does.

Okay wait I don't understand this part, why shouldn't he claim the flavor names he knows? The information will be lost to the wind otherwise.

PPE: I don't understand either.

Why should he out two townies names? That information isn’t lost - those players are still alive and kicking. But scum knowing names could help identify players at night.

Does scum really need to know potential town flavor? He doesn't know who has what, just that they're not fakeclaims, how does this benefit scum? They already know all of their fakeclaims, the flavor only has so many characters.

[Uncleeurope]

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

[Galzria]

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

[MiX]

You know what this reminds me of? When I was scum with Eddie. He carried off his fakeclaim to the very end, even when he was certainly going to be lynched.

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

I don't think he was joking. But really, I can't see any real downsides, I bet scum already has this info anyway, or at least they can deduce it. And if they don't, how useful can it be?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, hence me using the term instead of IC.

I would be surprised if they aren’t town, it’s bizarro game design if they aren’t.

[Galzria]

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

Further, like you said, one could be me. I’m already an IC and now you’re just throwing my name out there.

[Uncleeurope]

But at that point I create a second IC. (A real one this time)

So at least you will have a replacement.

[MiX]

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

Further, like you said, one could be me. I’m already an IC and now you’re just throwing my name out there.

But scum wouldn't know you're one of the names, if any. They're just for mass-claim purposes, that have to be outed now because Eddie's dying.

[Galzria]

But at that point I create a second IC. (A real one this time)

So at least you will have a replacement.

It still doesn’t create a second IC. Just because one name is town doesn’t mean both are.

[Uncleeurope]

But at that point I create a second IC. (A real one this time)

So at least you will have a replacement.

It still doesn’t create a second IC. Just because one name is town doesn’t mean both are.

It would be just as much an IC as MiX is. There is an odd chance for a GF, just like there is an insanely off chance of a disjoint in alignment for these names.

[MiX]

Okay here's a real question: the things that happen when you die, do they affect these 2 flavors specifically?

[Galzria]

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

Further, like you said, one could be me. I’m already an IC and now you’re just throwing my name out there.

But scum wouldn't know you're one of the names, if any. They're just for mass-claim purposes, that have to be outed now because Eddie's dying.

If one is my name, scum will know it. And again, they don’t need to be outted for mass claim, those players will still be alive.

[MiX]

But at that point I create a second IC. (A real one this time)

So at least you will have a replacement.

It still doesn’t create a second IC. Just because one name is town doesn’t mean both are.

It would be just as much an IC as MiX is. There is an odd chance for a GF, just like there is an insanely off chance of a disjoint in alignment for these names.

I would be surprised if ash randomized the fakeclaims and THEN gave you two correct flavors, actually. You might be overestimating how IC these roles are.

Because they are almost certainly the names of two town members.

I can essentially create two MICs (MiX-ICs, pronounced: MiX) once I am dead.

That’s literally the definition of MiX-IC. You don’t know they’re town. You haven’t been told. You’ve simply inferred.

Further, like you said, one could be me. I’m already an IC and now you’re just throwing my name out there.

But scum wouldn't know you're one of the names, if any. They're just for mass-claim purposes, that have to be outed now because Eddie's dying.

If one is my name, scum will know it. And again, they don’t need to be outted for mass claim, those players will still be alive.

I'll trust you on that first part.

[Uncleeurope]

By the way, if I was scum I would have just said they were guaranteed to be the same alignment.

That is if I would have come up with this garbage as scum.

Why the heck to I leave it this vague when it complicates my desired outcome.

[Uncleeurope]

Okay here's a real question: the things that happen when you die, do they affect these 2 flavors specifically?

Yes, is why I am almost positive they are the same alignment, so randomness doesn’t shift balance based on a 50/50.

[Galzria]

But at that point I create a second IC. (A real one this time)

So at least you will have a replacement.

It still doesn’t create a second IC. Just because one name is town doesn’t mean both are.

It would be just as much an IC as MiX is. There is an odd chance for a GF, just like there is an insanely off chance of a disjoint in alignment for these names.

Then assume one is mine and accept that: A) I know. B) You cannot make any more of an additional IC than I could. C) Without you claiming, my death will do what you’re trying to do but better and more concretely.

[MiX]

By the way, if I was scum I would have just said they were guaranteed to be the same alignment.

That is if I would have come up with this garbage as scum.

Why the heck to I leave it this vague when it complicates my desired outcome.

Reading EoD3 of RMM53 where you made a weird claim and stuck with it to the every end IIRC. Although the circunstances are different (there you were 100% scum, here you're far from it) they look similar, at least from what I remember it.

Okay here's a real question: the things that happen when you die, do they affect these 2 flavors specifically?

Yes, is why I am almost positive they are the same alignment, so randomness doesn’t shift balance based on a 50/50.

Would they know they're being affected?

[Uncleeurope]

Then assume neither are you and I create two MICs that are two people we are unsure on.

[Uncleeurope]

Remember, though, MiX: I did that in that game because I knew it is how I would behave if I was town.

As exemplified here.

[Galzria]

Then assume neither are you and I create two MICs that are two people we are unsure on.

Don’t buy it - and it could do far more harm than good if one (or both) are scum and people are treating them like IC’s.

[Galzria]

ADK, you should shoot sooner rather than later so we can decide to follow with a lynch (if we hit town) or no-lynch (if we hit scum).

[2.71828.....]

Still don't like using the day vig. Much prefer a lynch

[Uncleeurope]

All you have to do is treat them as the same alignment.

It’s a free cop result traded for scum knowing two flavors in a pool, I can’t see a downside.

[MiX]

Still don't like using the day vig. Much prefer a lynch

That's why you Believe The Ic and the mystical Ic Role Powers and pray it's a better move than not.

All you have to do is treat them as the same alignment.

It’s a free cop result traded for scum knowing two flavors in a pool, I can’t see a downside.

If you share why you think they absolutely must coexist in this game...then you have to reveal the flavor, which Galzria doesn't want.

Can you reveal your own flavor?

[Uncleeurope]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

[2.71828.....]

Still don't like using the day vig. Much prefer a lynch

That's why you Believe The Ic and the mystical Ic Role Powers and pray it's a better move than not.

Oh, ok. Carry on then

[Galzria]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

If you gave us your own flavor name I would encourage ADK to shoot his choice between e, Shraeye & pubby.

[MiX]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

Part of me says "you have more information about your own role than Galzria", the other part says "Galzria knows more about their own role than you" so you should probably not do it???

Okay here's a real question: the things that happen when you die, do they affect these 2 flavors specifically?

Yes, is why I am almost positive they are the same alignment, so randomness doesn’t shift balance based on a 50/50.

Would they know they're being affected?

[2.71828.....]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

If you gave us your own flavor name I would encourage ADK to shoot his choice between e, Shraeye & pubby.

Hey now, that is random.

Why am I on this list?

[Uncleeurope]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

[Uncleeurope]

Yes they will know.

[Galzria]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

If you gave us your own flavor name I would encourage ADK to shoot his choice between e, Shraeye & pubby.

Hey now, that is random.

Why am I on this list?

You have been on a number of my questions to others since the Vig claim came up. There are townie people who have considered you scummy, and I’ve taken their reads into consideration. I also think that the way you’ve been pushing against the Vig Shot isn’t done in a way that you’re afraid it might hit scum, but more so that you can be “Oh, look, I told you it was bad...” if we hit town, which with the leading candidate Eddie there’s a decent chance. You just feel disingenuous.

[MiX]

Yes they will know.

So you shouldn't claim, whoever knows they were tampered with are town.

If your flip PoEs the other 2 then you should just claim your own and leave the other ones semi-revealed.

There's random things in this game (Awaclus, my one role) so I believe it.

Can you claim your flavor now?

[Galzria]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

We’ve had two Skitters claim & not be killed, and a 3rd party claimed & not be killed.

Try me.

Look, either you claim, it satisfies belief and we shoot elsewhere, or you don’t claim and we shoot you. If you’re town your ONLY chance at survival is to claim your flavor name.

[Uncleeurope]

Yes they will know.

So you shouldn't claim, whoever knows they were tampered with are town.

If your flip PoEs the other 2 then you should just claim your own and leave the other ones semi-revealed.

There's random things in this game (Awaclus, my one role) so I believe it.

Can you claim your flavor now?

They won’t both know thy were tampered with.

I also would be much more cooperative as scum, like what the heck.

[Uncleeurope]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

We’ve had two Skitters claim & not be killed, and a 3rd party claimed & not be killed.

Try me.

Look, either you claim, it satisfies belief and we shoot elsewhere, or you don’t claim and we shoot you. If you’re town your ONLY chance at survival is to claim your flavor name.

What if I don’t want to survive after my flavor is out?

[Galzria]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

We’ve had two Skitters claim & not be killed, and a 3rd party claimed & not be killed.

Try me.

Look, either you claim, it satisfies belief and we shoot elsewhere, or you don’t claim and we shoot you. If you’re town your ONLY chance at survival is to claim your flavor name.

What if I don’t want to survive after my flavor is out?

If you’re town, that’s ridiculous.

[MiX]

Yes they will know.

So you shouldn't claim, whoever knows they were tampered with are town.

If your flip PoEs the other 2 then you should just claim your own and leave the other ones semi-revealed.

There's random things in this game (Awaclus, my one role) so I believe it.

Can you claim your flavor now?

They won’t both know thy were tampered with.

What does this even meeeeean???

You're just delaying your death, that is all. Scum would do it.

[Uncleeurope]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

We’ve had two Skitters claim & not be killed, and a 3rd party claimed & not be killed.

Try me.

Look, either you claim, it satisfies belief and we shoot elsewhere, or you don’t claim and we shoot you. If you’re town your ONLY chance at survival is to claim your flavor name.

What if I don’t want to survive after my flavor is out?

If you’re town, that’s ridiculous.

Yup.

If I do a full claim I can guarantee my recommendation would be to shoot me.

My flavor is tied to my full claim.

Therefor I had to guard my claim’s contents and withhold my flavor name.

[Uncleeurope]

Yes they will know.

So you shouldn't claim, whoever knows they were tampered with are town.

If your flip PoEs the other 2 then you should just claim your own and leave the other ones semi-revealed.

There's random things in this game (Awaclus, my one role) so I believe it.

Can you claim your flavor now?

They won’t both know thy were tampered with.

What does this even meeeeean???

You're just delaying your death, that is all. Scum would do it.

One will know and one will not.

[Galzria]

If I reveal my own flavor you have to shoot me.

And it will inadvertently reveal the other two, I think.

I don’t know.

I have no idea what the flavor of this show is, and it is making this hard for me to gauge.

The good and bad things that happen later on are guaranteed to happen to the a different of my 2 names.

And it is random, so basically, it will drastically alter the power levels of the game if it happens based on random chance.

Unless they are both on he same team.

We’ve had two Skitters claim & not be killed, and a 3rd party claimed & not be killed.

Try me.

Look, either you claim, it satisfies belief and we shoot elsewhere, or you don’t claim and we shoot you. If you’re town your ONLY chance at survival is to claim your flavor name.

What if I don’t want to survive after my flavor is out?

If you’re town, that’s ridiculous.

Yup.

If I do a full claim I can guarantee my recommendation would be to shoot me.

My flavor is tied to my full claim.

Therefor I had to guard my claim’s contents and withhold my flavor name.

Then you’re dead.

I’ve got work to do. ADK, please vig Eddie when you get here.

[MiX]

Yes they will know.

So you shouldn't claim, whoever knows they were tampered with are town.

If your flip PoEs the other 2 then you should just claim your own and leave the other ones semi-revealed.

There's random things in this game (Awaclus, my one role) so I believe it.

Can you claim your flavor now?

They won’t both know thy were tampered with.

What does this even meeeeean???

You're just delaying your death, that is all. Scum would do it.

One will know and one will not.

Do you know which is the one that knows, or is it random? Is the unknown effect the positive or negative one?

[Uncleeurope]

I know which one will know. For the me dying part of my role, yes.

[2.71828.....]

Unvote

[2.71828.....]

Just because

[MiX]

I know which one will know. For the me dying part of my role, yes.

Then I think you should claim the flavor of the role that doesn't know something is happening to them. Galzria, do you approve this?

Does something always happen, or can nothing happen?

[Uncleeurope]

The e vig is the correct play here, I believe.

Sorry if I played that poorly.

I just figured the order of events I prefer is: not being lynched > me being lynched > me actually giving a helpful claim.

[Uncleeurope]

I know which one will know. For the me dying part of my role, yes.

Then I think you should claim the flavor of the role that doesn't know something is happening to them. Galzria, do you approve this?

Does something always happen, or can nothing happen?

Something always will happen.

[MiX]

The e vig is the correct play here, I believe.

Why?

[Uncleeurope]

The e vig is the correct play here, I believe.

Why?

He has a much higher chance of being scum than me.

[2.71828.....]

Galz, do you actually think I am scum here?

And I really just want to announce the stinking names, I think you are wrong and it will be helpful.

If you gave us your own flavor name I would encourage ADK to shoot his choice between e, Shraeye & pubby.

Hey now, that is random.

Why am I on this list?

You have been on a number of my questions to others since the Vig claim came up. There are townie people who have considered you scummy, and I’ve taken their reads into consideration. I also think that the way you’ve been pushing against the Vig Shot isn’t done in a way that you’re afraid it might hit scum, but more so that you can be “Oh, look, I told you it was bad...” if we hit town, which with the leading candidate Eddie there’s a decent chance. You just feel disingenuous.

So you think there is now a high chance that Eddie is town?

I am so confused

[Uncleeurope]

I think he is just shooting me for not claiming despite him thinking I am town.

I would have claimed as scum here, though.

One key difference, MiX, is last game when I had a fakeclaim, if asked a question, I answered it.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, Galzria just admitted he thinks that Eddie might be town.

Again, I ask.  Why the rush to use the vig shot?

[2.71828.....]

I think he is just shooting me for not claiming despite him thinking I am town.

I would have claimed as scum here, though.

One key difference, MiX, is last game when I had a fakeclaim, if asked a question, I answered it.

Yeah, you are starting to win me over to think you are town.  I am almost back to saying let's just lynch ADK.  solves a lot of problems.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: ADK

YOLO

[2.71828.....]

Nah, unvote

I actually have an idea for how we can use the day vig shot with my PR, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.  I wasn't hoping to say anything until my plan had worked/didn't work (no guarantees). 

[MiX]

I have no idea how to read Eddie anymore.

Are we shooting? Are we deciding if we should shoot? I have no idea.

Anyway I suggest lynching Space if Eddie is good, it would blow my VCA wide open if they flip town, that's for sure.

[MiX]

Vote: Space if I hadn't already done this.

[Galzria]

I mean, Galzria just admitted he thinks that Eddie might be town.

Again, I ask.  Why the rush to use the vig shot?

And again, you’ve already been answered, so stop asking just to appear townie.

I believe there are plenty of worlds where scum refuses to claim - even given a fake claim opportunity, if they believe there’s any chance they don’t die.

There is no logical reason for Town not to claim, and even less when told their claim would prevent their own death and potentially find scum instead. Eddie literally claimed that he would be a better kill than killing scum. That’s beyond ridiculous. The entire thing is either a massive AtE play, or Eddie has massively misplayed.

If Eddie is town, I don’t want to shoot him (obviously). But the ONE thing he can do to redirect the shot to potential scum he refuses to do. And I can’t help but be left feeling like he’s trying to be saved by a “feel bad for the guy no way he’s scum here” argument. Sorry, that’s not gonna work. If he wants to live, if he wants to kill scum, he needs to flavor claim. He refuses, so he dies.

[Uncleeurope]

What is AtE?

[MiX]

What is AtE?

Appeal to Emotion: the foundation of your playstyle when under suspicion.

[Uncleeurope]

Ah.

[Uncleeurope]

Galz, treat it like this, me claiming is like two town dies, or roughly equivalent. Me dying today is like one town dies, me not claiming and not dying is like no town dies.

[Galzria]

Galz, treat it like this, me claiming is like two town dies, or roughly equivalent. Me dying today is like one town dies, me not claiming and not dying is like no town dies.

Dude there’s already two IC’s in the game. That’s gonna be who dies at night. And you being shot reveals the exact same information as you simply claiming it now.

[Uncleeurope]

The negative thing that happens later on if I don’t die will happen for sure if a claim. Can’t happen if I die.

You obviously don’t trust that I’ve thought about this.

There is obviously crap you don’t know about my role.

[Uncleeurope]

Whatever, I’m Maggie.

[MiX]

Reads the wiki for less than 1 minute

Well I can see what roles you think must exist...and...yeah...

Galz, treat it like this, me claiming is like two town dies, or roughly equivalent. Me dying today is like one town dies, me not claiming and not dying is like no town dies.

How is this even possibly true??? If you die, you reveal your flavor, so...wouldn't "two town die" regardless?

[Uncleeurope]

Me being dead makes knowledge of my claim moot.

[MiX]

Me being dead makes knowledge of my claim moot.

Okay, so...if you live, "two town die", and if you die, one town dies? So you want to die? As you said before?

Why oh why aren't you dead yet!

[Galzria]

Whatever, I’m Maggie.

Thank you.

I believe you completely. I’m going to claim in a little bit.

Eddie, who would you shoot?

[Uncleeurope]

I think Space/E/PPS are the best calls.

I am slightly curious about e’s claim, though. Without his plan claim he would be my first choice.

Is there any merit whatsoever in waitin a day to see what e wants to do?

[Galzria]

I am a Mason, by name and by role. Which one shouldn't be relevant at this time. Joth is my partner, which should be blatantly obvious to anybody reading the game. He is also an IC, and is also a Mason by name and by role (moreso than MiX, as there are no variables here). Each of us has additional powers. Night 0 we were offered the chance to give up our additional powers in exchange for adding a third Mason to the group. We opted not to do so. D1, I thought ADK's fake-flavor claim of Matt Mason was an indicator that he would've been changed into the third Mason had we gone that route. Now, I think it's more obvious that Eddie would've been added to the group.

Hopefully ADK reads the entire thread before shooting Eddie. That would be bad.

Eddie, do you know mine and Joth's flavor names?

ADK - I would like you to shoot amongst Sharaeye, e, & Pubby. The choice I think should actually be yours, and I don't think we should have a big drawn out debate about it first. Time is running short to deadline, and it's entirely in Mafia's interest to stall here.

[MiX]

...Fascinating... I'll add this to my VCA. Both viable counterwagons to EFHW being masons is fun, that's for sure.

[Galzria]

Faust: Who would you Vig if you were picking?

shraeye maybe? But possibly joth. I think shraeye is scummier but with joth I am more worried that he'll never get lynched.

He’ll never get lynched.

[Galzria]

...Fascinating... I'll add this to my VCA. Both viable counterwagons to EFHW being masons is fun, that's for sure.

Mhmm.

[MiX]

So how many ICs do we have now? 3? This is starting to remind me of RMM53 for another reason altogether...thankfully I'm town here.

[Uncleeurope]

I am a Mason, by name and by role. Which one shouldn't be relevant at this time. Joth is my partner, which should be blatantly obvious to anybody reading the game. He is also an IC, and is also a Mason by name and by role (moreso than MiX, as there are no variables here). Each of us has additional powers. Night 0 we were offered the chance to give up our additional powers in exchange for adding a third Mason to the group. We opted not to do so. D1, I thought ADK's fake-flavor claim of Matt Mason was an indicator that he would've been changed into the third Mason had we gone that route. Now, I think it's more obvious that Eddie would've been added to the group.

Hopefully ADK reads the entire thread before shooting Eddie. That would be bad.

Eddie, do you know mine and Joth's flavor names?

ADK - I would like you to shoot amongst Sharaeye, e, & Pubby. The choice I think should actually be yours, and I don't think we should have a big drawn out debate about it first. Time is running short to deadline, and it's entirely in Mafia's interest to stall here.

Yup, I know your names.

Now I’m just bummed you chose to keep your powers. I woulda enjoyed chilling with you.

[Glooble]

Wow I was just joking about the Masons being Masons... apparently ash actually did decide to get cute with it...

[jotheonah]

Well now I can stop living this double life. But yeah, keep in mind that my big analysis was done with full knowledge of MiX's IC-ness even though that hadn't been revealed to town yet.

If I were to choose the shot between Galz's options, I would recommend e, then pps, then shraeye.

I'm also fine with faust though.

[Uncleeurope]

Those were my three, not Galz’s

[Uncleeurope]

Wait, never mind, it was a MiX. I didn’t have Shraeye but Galz didn’t have PPS.

[MiX]

I already had joth as town, so it doesn't help PoE...sad.

I would shoot Space, according to my VCA, or e??? otherwise. And lynch the other or Eddie afterwards.

[Glooble]

You still want to lynch Eddie at this point?

[MiX]

You still want to lynch Eddie at this point?

I don't know why he's so trusted by Galzria. Sure, he guessed roles are in the game, but...

[2.71828.....]

Well, I am headed to bed. Deadline is in 24 hours  and 15 minutes, right?

I will be around for deadline and the time leading up to it.

[Glooble]

You still want to lynch Eddie at this point?

I don't know why he's so trusted by Galzria. Sure, he guessed roles are in the game, but...

If Galz’s pm mentioned Maggie by name, I think that more or less clears Eddie.

[faust]

Well, I don't have a lot of time to process this right now.

I would urge to not shoot pubby. I think scum must have something pretty good still up their sleeves considering how much power we have concentrated in the town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Shoot: e

[Galzria]

Sweet

[MiX]

So, e, claim to your heart's content! I'm waiting to see all the things you're omitting that I'll learn with my role...

[Swowl]

I wish i read all that backwards... would of been way faster.

I only get what is happening based on reading these convos so i wanna make sure i have everything straight...

1) Galz and Joth are ICs and Masons
2) Eddie is (assuming town) Maggie, and it seems that is a feasible thing based on Galz explanation when combined with ADK claim.
3) ADK is claimed survivor with a Vig shot
4) MiX is cleared by Galz as town barring some GF ability/item/etc.

I think that all checks out yes?

Ok here is the issue i am having with all this being true... keeping in mind i actually believe most of it, so if someone wants to throw some cents in that would be rad.

Here is Day 1 Final VC:

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

MiX (1): shraeye
EFHW (9): Galzria, WCD, Datswan, Awaclus, joth, Space, Glooble, MiX, 2.7
Galzria (1) EFHW
WCD (1): pubby
joth (3): ADK, faust, Uncle
faust (1): PPS

Not Voting (0):
With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ended at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

So what...  skum just wasn’t playing  wasn’t playing defense end of day 1?
If we assume ADK is survivor and Eddie is town, this essentially means that skum literally did nothing to create a viable defense for EFHW in the end. [Shraeye, Pubby, PPS, Faust] were the 4 off wagoners... and they were all on different wagons.

So if the town calls (or town/survivor calls i should say) are correct, we essentially have to choose between:

A) Skum being off wagon and not wanting to consolidate even at the expense of loosing EFHW.
- this theory pretty much means it would be exactly (assuming 4 skum) [1 on Joth, 1 bussing, 1 off, and EFHW].
-  So the busier and the off wagoner could of moved to the same wagon to swing it... but that would look super bad vca wise so i can see how this theory pans out.
- This would put the skum buckets as:
1 On Wagon [WCD, Swan, Awaclus, Space, Glooble]
1 Joth Wagon [Faust]
1 Off Wagons [Shraeye, Pubby, PPS]

B) Skum was double bussing Day 1 with another on Joth
- so the buckets would be:
2 in [WCD, Swan, Awaclus, Space, Glooble]
1 in [Faust]

C) Skum scattered, but none on Joth.
- Almost impossible IMO, would mean that skum did not try to play D at all. But it would assuredly be something like this for buckets:
2 in [WCD, Swan, Awaclus, Space, Glooble]
1 in [Shraeye, Pubby, PPS]


I am leaning pretty heavy on A.
So pretty much...
if ADK and Eddie are both telling the truth - Faust looks super suspicious... but then 1 of the other skum is still in the [Shraeye, Pubby, PPS] pool.
If one of them are lying, it could still be Faust, but more likely one in [Shraeye, Pubby, PPS].

As we are not going to have a super conclusive result on the town nature of ADK and Eddie right now... i think Shraeye, Pubby, PPS is a good place to look for now.

PPE E getting shot.

[Swowl]

You still want to lynch Eddie at this point?

I don't know why he's so trusted by Galzria. Sure, he guessed roles are in the game, but...

If Galz’s pm mentioned Maggie by name, I think that more or less clears Eddie.

I don’t believe this happened? If he thought ADK could of been the person back on day 1.

Galz - correct or no?

[Awaclus]

Vote: faust

[MiX]

I really don't like looking at the last vote count: it's missing votes prior to inevitability. There's a point where it's clear what the lynch is to scum, and from there on any votes are just for towncred. I would say that point was before/after Space's vote (before if you think they're scum, after if they're town), which is the part of the vote count I would look at.

I do understand how faust's scummy, it's why ADK voted faust at the start of D2, he clearly looks scummy by pushing non-EFHW wagon and sticking his vote to joth. This hasn't changed with all the IC business.

[pubby]

rooty tooty point and shoot e 

He's gonna flip before the day's over, right? I do not remember how day vigs work.

[Swowl]

I disagree completely regarding the assessment of the EOD VCA. It is not like skum thought they were getting lynched day 1, and Between Galz and Joth wagons it is a mystery to me how skum allowed one of their own to be lynched day 1... which probably means it caught them off guard. Because of that I think that info will be very important.

In regards to the town cred part, I agree with you in half sense - it is not because of the person that voted (Space) it’s because of the timing of their vote.
There were 150 posts, the Galz wagon, the continuing Joth wagon, and some attempts st other shit between the time Joth put EFHW at L-3 and Space put it to L-2. Also, during that time, it was 5-4 at multiple points. My “half agree” is because since we have not verified to 100% certainty that both the other wagons are town... i just don’t see any  of [Wcd, Swan, Awaclus] choosing not to push one of the other wagons as skum.

On the other hand i do totally agree with you that if Space is town there is probz skum for cred in Glooble, MiX, E!... so here’s to hoping E flips skum!

[Galzria]

rooty tooty point and shoot e 

+1,000,000,000,000

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm home and caught up. This game is moving fast, but I think we have Joth and Galz as ICs, with MiX and Eddie both as probable town.

The vague case I posted on Joth about 24 hours ago, which nobody commented on anyway also kind of works as a case on faust, regardless of e's alignment.

If e is town, there's quite a big early wagon on him where PPS is the only one whose alignment is unclaimed:
#465: 2.71828..... (5): Uncleeurope, Galzria, pingpongsam, A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah
EFHW does eventually move there, but then the wagon disintegrates as ADK moves to the big MiX wagon and Joth sheeps Galz on Swan.

Also if e is town, the Eddie wagon earlier in D2 makes it a bit likely that there's one scum in {faust, Awaclus}
#1084: Uncleeurope (5): faust, MiX, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828....., Awaclus
Though if e is scum then under normal circumstances I'd say that Awaclus is less likely to be, though I'm not sure if Awaclus subscribes to normal circumstances as much as most.

I do think e has been sounding scummier in later posts, so him flipping scum would be great. I think that would make Awaclus and Glooble look more townie overall, though at least in the latter case, I think he looks pretty townie already.

PPE 2: I don't think Glooble is scum because without him EFHW really was unlikely to have been lynched. MiX seems to be playing townie at the moment.. which I hate to say with him voting me, but I can see why from a purely selfish "I want my wagons to tell me things" standpoint then having me green for sure is actually helpful to him. I'm much less convinced of Shraeye or PPS's excuses for being on there. Urgh.. I'm super-sleepy and rambling now. It must be morning in Mod-land by now, so hopefully there will be a flip soon...

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy cow! There’s like 8 pages of content...  e was shot? Does the day end now? I still have supper with fam and can’t catch up until tonight. Im used to the weekends being slow.

[ashersky]

A shot rang out, in broad daylight! Everyone dropped to the ground from instinct, heads covered.

A few moments later, they slowly stood up, cautious and surveying the situation. No one saw the origin of the shot, but eventually they found the destination.

2.7 has been shot in the face!  He was Alexis “Lexi” Glass-Mason, the Peace Bringer.

[A Drowned Kernel]

...okay?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.15:

Not Voting (14): faust, Awaclus, joth, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, Space, Glooble, Uncleeurope, shraeye, pubby

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Glooble]

Two third parties?

[Swowl]

Seems that way - another Mason too.

She is like super human - rapid aging and like super strength/agility.
She blows up the bad guys in the show and then the bad guys clone her and send her to kill her dad.

So yeah - probably not the best death for us there.

[Uncleeurope]

Might not have 4 scum after all?

[jotheonah]

vote: faust

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.16:

faust (1): joth

Not Voting (13): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, Space, Glooble, Uncleeurope, shraeye, pubby

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Swowl]

Might not have 4 scum after all?

Maybe? It sounds like a towny role though.

[Uncleeurope]

I dunno how I feel about Faust here.

Despite that wagon we have had Swowl and Space advocating for that mindset.

It feels weird.

That being said, he did fight for EFHW’s life...

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: PPS

[Glooble]

I'm happy to keep sheeping my IC brother and

vote: faust

You could sell me on pps or Space though.

[Uncleeurope]

Lynching me is also worth considering.

[pubby]

vote: faust

[Swowl]

I dunno how I feel about Faust here.

Despite that wagon we have had Swowl and Space advocating for that mindset.

It feels weird.

That being said, he did fight for EFHW’s life...

I have done no such thing?
The conclusion of my post was we should look into PPS, Pubby, or PPS.
Additionally, i spent a good chunk of the early day stating i didn’t think Faust would make the play he did as skum.
If you AND ADK are both not skum... then yeah i think his lynch is unavoidable - but we are not there yet.

Vote: PPS

PPE 1

[Uncleeurope]

Eh, fair enough.

[Galzria]

Think yellow text are “allies”? vote: pubby

[A Drowned Kernel]

If so, why would he want to advertise it? Also, are "allies" something we should be concerned about?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.17:

faust (3): joth, Glooble, pubby
PPS (2): Uncle, Datswan
pubby (1): Galzria

Not Voting (8): faust, Awaclus, WCD, PPS, ADK, MiX, Space, shraeye

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Swowl]

Think yellow text are “allies”? vote: pubby

How did you come to the “allies” conclusion?

[Uncleeurope]

There might be an odd smattering of factions all with odd victory conditions based on Galz’s “cop” result.

It’s quite possible that wording is to bait us into mafia-reading third parties.

I dunno, though.

[Galzria]

Think yellow text are “allies”? vote: pubby

How did you come to the “allies” conclusion?

It’s not town, not scum, and is a claimed thing?

[Galzria]

There might be an odd smattering of factions all with odd victory conditions based on Galz’s “cop” result.

It’s quite possible that wording is to bait us into mafia-reading third parties.

I dunno, though.

Eh, that could be.

vote: Faust

[Swowl]

Think yellow text are “allies”? vote: pubby

How did you come to the “allies” conclusion?

It’s not town, not scum, and is a claimed thing?

Wait - i missed that last part. Who claimed allies?

[Uncleeurope]

Pubby did early on, within 5 posts I believe.

[Galzria]

Pubby did early on, within 5 posts I believe.

Not 5 game, but his 1st.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I’m not wrong... [PubbyGlasses]

[Swowl]

If there's no fake roles in this game, then I'm comfortable to say I'm an ally.

Found it.

[Galzria]

Well, I’m not wrong... [PubbyGlasses]

Yeah, sorry. Just wanted to make it easy to find.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.18:

faust (4): joth, Glooble, pubby, Galzria
PPS (2): Uncle, Datswan

Not Voting (8): faust, Awaclus, WCD, PPS, ADK, MiX, Space, shraeye

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[faust]

Well whatever. You guys seem dead set to lynch me.

I am Anne Glass-Mason, and I have 2 powers. One is a Doctor that doesn't work on Skitters, and the other is releasing harnessed children I can only use one each night.

[faust]

Vote: shraeye

[faust]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

[Galzria]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

[faust]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

This was in reference to that by the way:

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso.

And the EFHW lynch wouldn't have happened without me.

[Galzria]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

You know, funny thing is how quick you are to criticize me here - A) I made the EFHW lynch happen near the end, B) I haven’t even been pushing your lynch most of today. Joth has. Sorry you’re all upset that mislynch won’t work for you anymore.

[Galzria]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

This was in reference to that by the way:

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso.

And the EFHW lynch wouldn't have happened without me.

Hahaha - laughable

[Galzria]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

This was in reference to that by the way:

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso.

And the EFHW lynch wouldn't have happened without me.

Hahaha - laughable

Well, yes, laughable. But somewhat true. Bet that makes it sting even more.

[Galzria]

Because let’s be honest here Faust, your theory is... what? That EFHW’s partners... what? Just decided with 72 hours out (when you were still on wagon) to just never try and prevent her lynch? Wagon elsewhere? Anything? You think she was a solo job? What?

[faust]

You know, I just don't have the energy to fight two ICs all game. If you are dead set on lynching me, then it is best to get this distraction out of the way.

Vote: faust

I bet ashersky is proud of me right now.

[Galzria]

Because let’s be honest here Faust, your theory is... what? That EFHW’s partners... what? Just decided with 72 hours out (when you were still on wagon) to just never try and prevent her lynch? Wagon elsewhere? Anything? You think she was a solo job? What?

I’m really, really interested in how you suggest scum played the EFHW situation from 72 hours out until deadline.

[faust]

Because let’s be honest here Faust, your theory is... what? That EFHW’s partners... what? Just decided with 72 hours out (when you were still on wagon) to just never try and prevent her lynch? Wagon elsewhere? Anything? You think she was a solo job? What?

I’m really, really interested in how you suggest scum played the EFHW situation from 72 hours out until deadline.

I don't know, but have fun figuring it out once I flip.

[Galzria]

You know, I just don't have the energy to fight two ICs all game. If you are dead set on lynching me, then it is best to get this distraction out of the way.

Vote: faust

I bet ashersky is proud of me right now.

Man, tell you what. Stop voting yourself and sell me something that logically makes more sense. I listened to Eddie. I’ll at least grant you the same. Tell me a reasonable story.

[Galzria]

Because let’s be honest here Faust, your theory is... what? That EFHW’s partners... what? Just decided with 72 hours out (when you were still on wagon) to just never try and prevent her lynch? Wagon elsewhere? Anything? You think she was a solo job? What?

I’m really, really interested in how you suggest scum played the EFHW situation from 72 hours out until deadline.

I don't know, but have fun figuring it out once I flip.

Or, you know, you could help.

I think there’s a fine case against you. Better than any put forward on anybody else. Your defense of “But I wouldn’t do any of that as scum” is meaningless - it’s literally “because of X I’m town”, which is EXACTLY how you would try to act as scum.

I think there are plenty of other scummy people. Notice you WEREN’T in my list of people ADK should shoot. I’m voting you because: A) There’s a good case on you. Two in fact, mine & Swan’s wagon analysis. B) There’s no better case or candidate, no story to be told that really makes sense. C) We’re getting close to deadline.

So you want to live? Want not to get lynched? Stop telling me a sob story about why you must be town and convince me somebody else is scum.

[faust]

You know, I just don't have the energy to fight two ICs all game. If you are dead set on lynching me, then it is best to get this distraction out of the way.

Vote: faust

I bet ashersky is proud of me right now.

Man, tell you what. Stop voting yourself and sell me something that logically makes more sense. I listened to Eddie. I’ll at least grant you the same. Tell me a reasonable story.

I don't have a story. I know by PoE (+strongly townreading pubby) that scum must be on the wagon. My top guesses for that were joth and e, and well we see how that turned out. Now I have no idea. I would have to go back and reread, but this close to the deadline who knows if I'll find the time.

[faust]

I think there’s a fine case against you. Better than any put forward on anybody else. Your defense of “But I wouldn’t do any of that as scum” is meaningless - it’s literally “because of X I’m town”, which is EXACTLY how you would try to act as scum.

No, this is just so wrong. You argue that I am scum precisely because of something you think I wouldn't do as town. At the same time you claim that as scum I would act the same as town.

[Uncleeurope]

You know, I just don't have the energy to fight two ICs all game. If you are dead set on lynching me, then it is best to get this distraction out of the way.

Vote: faust

I bet ashersky is proud of me right now.

#FaustAtE

[faust]

You know, I just don't have the energy to fight two ICs all game. If you are dead set on lynching me, then it is best to get this distraction out of the way.

Vote: faust

I bet ashersky is proud of me right now.

#FaustAtE

At least I know that once I am dead, someone will live on to keep my snark alive.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.19:

faust (5): joth, Glooble, pubby, Galzria, Faust
PPS (2): Uncle, Datswan

Not Voting (7): Awaclus, WCD, PPS, ADK, MiX, Space, shraeye

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[pubby]

Should we discuss follow-the-cop possibilities? I mean, we have an IC cop, a doctor, and a universal backup. Seems pretty broken yo if they're all town.

[Galzria]

I think there’s a fine case against you. Better than any put forward on anybody else. Your defense of “But I wouldn’t do any of that as scum” is meaningless - it’s literally “because of X I’m town”, which is EXACTLY how you would try to act as scum.

No, this is just so wrong. You argue that I am scum precisely because of something you think I wouldn't do as town. At the same time you claim that as scum I would act the same as town.

I feel like I’ve explained this case, but boiled down:

I think you did something (start the EFHW wagon) not thinking it would go anywhere. Your case was flawed, and you asked people to join for a dumb reason (thank you PM’s). When it started to gain traction, You began to feel trapped. It doesn’t matter that the reasons were bad, they were your reasons. You had to stand by them. But you started to push Joth instead, trying to pull attention away from EFHW. When that ultimately fell through, you finally bailed on EFHW and argued everybody else do the same.

That’s a very reasonable argument. Your defense of “no, that’s not what so would do if I were scum” doesn’t really matter, because your inate argument is that “I only acted that way because I’m town” - but if we were to allow that a grain of truth then we must also allow that as scum you would be attempting to emulate that play.

Now, scum isn’t Joth. And it’s not e. And it’s not me. And it’s not MiX.

That leaves voters #6, #7 & #8: Awaclus, Glooble & Space
That leaves voter #2 & #3: WCD & Swan

The first two joined on wagon there joined when you were pushing it. If they’re partners with EFHW, that’s really rough for scum.

So that makes Glooble, Awaclus & Space as realistic possible bussers. Off wagon, hey, we agree on being ok with pubby being Town (for now). We’re going not Eddie too. That leaves 4: You, Shraeye, PPS & ADK. ADK we’ve marked as not-EFHW-partner.

So, removing yourself, you have:

Off wagon [PPS, Shraeye]
On wagon [Awaclus, Space, Glooble]

Two of those players should be scum. Do you believe scum double-bussed? Why? What supports it? If not, then which of PPS or Shraeye is scum and why?

[pubby]

pubby plan 1.0:

Galzria, you can investigate someone tonight, yeah?

If we lynch faust and he's town, MiX will become doctor and he can protect you. You can then check [PPS, Shraeye] and we'll have an extremely high chance of finding scum.

You might be thinking, won't scum interrupt that? Well, MiX is PGO, so scum can't target him, and I have my own super-secret-ability which can target you and ensure the investigation will go off.

[pubby]

pubby plan 1.0 - addendum:

If faust is scum, MiX is Godfather. Anyone who thinks Godfather is unlikely should check out the mafia setup Asher9++ and tell me Ashersky doesn't have a thing for that role:
 

Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100.

[Uncleeurope]

I still wanna trust Faust here.

His claim is thematically cohesive and consistent with his previous play.

I think PPS is a better call for off wagon hunting.

If all else fails we can just lynch ADK.

[Awaclus]

Vote: PPS

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: PPS

Hey, Awaclus, you been having fun?

How have you been overall?

I feel like we never talk anymore.

I thought our relationship meant something.

[faust]

That leaves voters #6, #7 & #8: Awaclus, Glooble & Space
That leaves voter #2 & #3: WCD & Swan

The first two joined on wagon there joined when you were pushing it. If they’re partners with EFHW, that’s really rough for scum.

Well, if you think I could have gone after EFHW thinking it wouldn't go anywhere... why couldn't WCD/Swan? That is really not enough for me to eliminate them from the pool. I kind of threw Didds out so far, but only because I trust your ability to read her.

So that makes Glooble, Awaclus & Space as realistic possible bussers. Off wagon, hey, we agree on being ok with pubby being Town (for now). We’re going not Eddie too. That leaves 4: You, Shraeye, PPS & ADK. ADK we’ve marked as not-EFHW-partner.

So, removing yourself, you have:

Off wagon [PPS, Shraeye]
On wagon [Awaclus, Space, Glooble]

Two of those players should be scum. Do you believe scum double-bussed? Why? What supports it? If not, then which of PPS or Shraeye is scum and why?

I think there are still 3 scum, not 2. I don't think both shraeye and PPS are scum as it would make very little sense for two scum to sit it out on single-vote wagons. Awaclus has made a pro-town thing happen and while that may somehow have happened with him being scum, I think it's reasonable to leave him alive based on that. I townread Space and Glooble. So... some of my reads or your reads are clearly off. Space and Glooble have both made unprovoked claims to support other players, and that is always a pretty darn townie thing to me. I also think the way Space voted for EFHW was townie; scum would have owned that vote and not gone "well no other wagon will succeed". I am less townie on Glooble now that I know (more or less) that MiX is town!skitter, but Space's role seems to clear Glooble somehow, so there's that.

shraeye is scummiest to me. I have no particularly good reasons for why. He dismissed the EFHW wagon very offhandedly, and he has made no risky plays, and for some reason he's the only one in the off-wagon crowd that noone suspects and I don't understand why.

[faust]

If we lynch faust and he's town, MiX will become doctor and he can protect you. You can then check [PPS, Shraeye] and we'll have an extremely high chance of finding scum.

I have 2 powers, so MiX inheriting Doctor is not a given.

[MiX]

I want e's power! He didn't get a chance to reveal what he had and I'm terribly dissapointed.

So Alexis is probably third-party thing that flips win conditions after a while? That's definitely what the colors indicate.

And faust is a non-Skitter Doctor that also releases harnessed children? Weird, why would you ever not doctor...

Now that we're actually investigating who bussed, can I introduce you to Space, the bussiest of them all that actually pushed for Galzria? I mean, who else did that?

I'll put "e is town" in my VCA and let you know what happens.

[faust]

And faust is a non-Skitter Doctor that also releases harnessed children? Weird, why would you ever not doctor...

Doctoring needs good targets. N1 the only realistic options were you/Glooble, i.e. Skitters, so I chose to release. Release always does something beneficial, Doctor may do something more beneficial but at the cost of potentially doing nothing at all.

[faust]

I guess it could be noted that if I was scum going to claim Doctor, the smart move would have been to take credit for the missing nightkill.

Vote: shraeye

[MiX]

I guess it could be noted that if I was scum going to claim Doctor, the smart move would have been to take credit for the missing nightkill.

Vote: shraeye

So you don't like my Space case, right? Who can be shraeye's partner?

[MiX]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

EFHW did something similar to this when I was scumreading Galzria but didn't vote, successfully baiting me into voting him. Do you think she would do this to her scumbuddy?

[faust]

I guess it could be noted that if I was scum going to claim Doctor, the smart move would have been to take credit for the missing nightkill.

Vote: shraeye

So you don't like my Space case, right? Who can be shraeye's partner?

Don't know... Swan, Didds, maybe Glooble, PPS or Awaclus.

PPE: 1

[faust]

Shraeye is town for not voting Glooble.

Why is that towny? It seems like we often use suspecting without voting as a scumtell.

EFHW did something similar to this when I was scumreading Galzria but didn't vote, successfully baiting me into voting him. Do you think she would do this to her scumbuddy?

Interesting. But I think yes. shraeye had no votes at that point, there was no danger.

[MiX]

Did you know I was a Skitter when I claimed or did you just want to know if I was?

[faust]

Did you know I was a Skitter when I claimed or did you just want to know if I was?

I wanted to know if I could protect you. I actually assumed that you weren't a skitter.

[MiX]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Lol. Says the guy who did everything he could to prevent a scum lynch. Kthanks.

This was in reference to that by the way:

Scum for the most part didn’t bus yesterday. Anybody selling different is a fool, and anybody that buys it moreso.

And the EFHW lynch wouldn't have happened without me.

Hahaha - laughable

Well, yes, laughable. But somewhat true. Bet that makes it sting even more.

Look at the votes D1: was scum ever in trouble before faust started the EFHW wagon? The answer's a clear No. Either faust is suicidal or...I can't think of anything else, actually.

Anyway faust is town, who knew. Let's move on.

faust, why is Space town?

[Glooble]

vote: pps

[MiX]

vote: pps

Why?

[Glooble]

vote: pps

Why?

There’s a specific element of his claim that makes sense with my role in a way I don’t think scum would make up.

[Glooble]

Sorry I meant of Faust’s claim. Pps is just the only other viable wagon and someone I’ve been thinking might be scum for a bit. I’d also go to Shraeye.

[MiX]

Sorry I meant of Faust’s claim. Pps is just the only other viable wagon and someone I’ve been thinking might be scum for a bit. I’d also go to Shraeye.

So his last vote was from EFHW to faust when faust decided to bail. Do you think scum just abandons every wagon that early?

I just realized that, not only were both counterwagons on masons, that they were essencially unlynchable precisely because they're masons. Poor scum, never stood a chance.

[Glooble]

So his last vote was from EFHW to faust when faust decided to bail. Do you think scum just abandons every wagon that early?

Having trouble parsing this, but I’ll look at the vote counts when I’m not on my phone. Mostly wanted to get off faust ASAP.

[MiX]

I re-read Galz, and I feel like he's both not been supportive of some stuff that seems very sensible to me (e.g. being critical of faust at #264, and also complaining about faust correcting Swan at #367), and also that he's generally more aware of the wagons and voting that maybe faust gave him credit for at the point faust discounted Galz from his lynchpool based on the intent to hammer MiX.. which means I think he really should be someone faust considered at the same time as he started up the EFHW wagon.

Vote: Galz

Isn't this what we're expecting for scum to do word for word?

So his last vote was from EFHW to faust when faust decided to bail. Do you think scum just abandons every wagon that early?

Having trouble parsing this, but I’ll look at the vote counts when I’m not on my phone. Mostly wanted to get off faust ASAP.

"his" is pps, "faust decided to bail" refers to faust's vote from EFHW to joth. Does that explain it?

[Glooble]

Having trouble parsing this, but I’ll look at the vote counts when I’m not on my phone. Mostly wanted to get off faust ASAP.
[/quote]

"his" is pps, "faust decided to bail" refers to faust's vote from EFHW to joth. Does that explain it?
[/quote]

So you’re saying faust switched from EFHW to joth then pps switched to faust? How would that clear pps? Seems like he’d be looking for an excuse to get off the EFHW wagon, if pps was scum and faust was town.

[Glooble]

I hate doing quotes on phone. Should have previewed though.

[MiX]

So you’re saying faust switched from EFHW to joth then pps switched to faust? How would that clear pps? Seems like he’d be looking for an excuse to get off the EFHW wagon, if pps was scum and faust was town.

Because it still locks in the lynch. Not a single person moved to faust, and he wasn't going to be a realistical lynch, being faust and all.

[faust]

faust, why is Space town?

I think I talked about this in my reply to Galzria, but here are the two main quotes:

Given the combination of people who're active in here just now, and the layout of the wagons, I think EFHW is the only lynch that has a chance of going through. That's because while the Joth set is growing, we'd need a lot of not-currently-here people to push it over the line.

vote: EFHW with apologies for jumping on the hard-VLA wagon. I don't have time to sit and track the thread up to deadline, but I'll try to check back and move if it really pushes something through.

I think this is not how scum busses.

And the second one:

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

So if you know one skitter is town-aligned, why are you voting for one?

Because the Skitter that I know is town-aligned cannot also be MiX (for reasons I don't want to go into). So we have no reason to believe that Skitter!MiX has to be town-aligned, and also no reason to believe that MiX is even telling the truth about being a Skitter to begin with, because that could be his fake-claim.

I have to admit that I misremembered this as happening on D1, it actually was on D2 and that lessens its townieness somewhat.

[Glooble]

Vote: faust

He totally sold an EFHW wagon and it crept up. As it finally got big enough to be the definitive lynch he jumped off saying she must be town. What about the sale, faust? Are you not buying your own product? Not only does he get off his own wagon he goes to joth, who I may have initially been willing to lynch, but the more I think about I'm convinced is town.

Here’s the pps quote in question. He’s more or less arguing that faust and EFHW are partners, right? But if he thinks that, why switch from EFHW to faust? If you think two people are scum and you’re voting for the one with a large wagon, why switch to the one with no wagon.

Also worth noting that this is very shortly after Galz’s Mason softclaim, which I missed at the time but which is totally obvious in retrospect. If pps saw it that would explain an unwillingness to jump to Galz or joth.

[MiX]

Strong towny case.

Do you think scum attempted to lynch Galzria (other than EFHW)? If so, there's only 4 people that votes for him after EFHW (and thus after it could be a reasonable counterwagon): Glooble, pubby, Space and Eddie. I'm townreading the other 3, so it points to Space.

There was another line of thought, which was scum was on joth, but that's obviously not possible. Or scum decided EFHW flipping was fun???

There's a third option, which is scum was semi-bussing and semi-not, which essencially means they were voting wherever they felt like (and let EFHW die) but not through mad bussing: that one leads to shraeye. But I vastly prefer the first one.

If Space's that towny, I think I would sooner lynch Glooble...but between Glooble or shraeye is a hard call.

Vote: faust

He totally sold an EFHW wagon and it crept up. As it finally got big enough to be the definitive lynch he jumped off saying she must be town. What about the sale, faust? Are you not buying your own product? Not only does he get off his own wagon he goes to joth, who I may have initially been willing to lynch, but the more I think about I'm convinced is town.

Here’s the pps quote in question. He’s more or less arguing that faust and EFHW are partners, right? But if he thinks that, why switch from EFHW to faust? If you think two people are scum and you’re voting for the one with a large wagon, why switch to the one with no wagon.

Also worth noting that this is very shortly after Galz’s Mason softclaim, which I missed at the time but which is totally obvious in retrospect. If pps saw it that would explain an unwillingness to jump to Galz or joth.

Why distance yourself when doing so is more suspicious than not? Also, did anyone see the softclaim? I just did on a reread, but it's so hidden! I guess scum could've seen it...

[faust]

Do you think scum attempted to lynch Galzria (other than EFHW)? If so, there's only 4 people that votes for him after EFHW (and thus after it could be a reasonable counterwagon): Glooble, pubby, Space and Eddie. I'm townreading the other 3, so it points to Space.

I have similar feelings except I'm townreading all four. It is entirely possible that scum didn't want to join EFHW here.

If Space's that towny, I think I would sooner lynch Glooble...but between Glooble or shraeye is a hard call.

No, that makes no sense. If Space is town then their claim suggests that Glooble is too. It therefore makes no sense to lynch Glooble before Space.

[MiX]

If Space's that towny, I think I would sooner lynch Glooble...but between Glooble or shraeye is a hard call.

No, that makes no sense. If Space is town then their claim suggests that Glooble is too. It therefore makes no sense to lynch Glooble before Space.

You're right. Forgot Space said they confirmed a non-me Skitter (specifically forgot about the non-me part). That simplifies things.

So it's between Space and shraeye. I'm fine with either.

Vote: Space one last time, I'll be on mobile from now on all the way to deadline.

[jotheonah]

Glooble and Faust both protecting each other?

[Glooble]

Glooble and Faust both protecting each other?

Would you feel better if I told you why I changed my mind about faust? I'd just as soon not give the info to scum, but otoh I may have told them enough to piece it together.

[Glooble]

I actually am going to claim a teensy tiny bit more in case it leads us somewhere useful, especially because I already softclaimed this earlier today so if scum wants it they can find it. I also have a limited doctor ability. I won't tell you the specific constraints, but I will tell you it will not work on faust. So I thought "If I were ash, and I were giving town multiple protective roles, I'd make sure they couldn't protect each other" which made me believe faust, because I don't see how scum!faust pulls the "Can't target skitters" thing out of his ass and it just happens to fit with what, to me, seemed like a solid game design choice.

That being said, I also am not responsible for the lack of a night kill N1. Which means we either have 3 pseudo-doctors, which seems absurd, or a role-blocker/ jailkeeper. If it's a roleblocker they should probably claim because most likely they targeted scum. If its a jailkeeper, I guess they wouldn't know if they targeted the scum or the victim,  but, still, does that seem like too much protective power to give town?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well whatever. You guys seem dead set to lynch me.

I am Anne Glass-Mason, and I have 2 powers. One is a Doctor that doesn't work on Skitters, and the other is releasing harnessed children I can only use one each night.

Do you have any info on what e's role might have been?

[faust]

That being said, I also am not responsible for the lack of a night kill N1. Which means we either have 3 pseudo-doctors, which seems absurd, or a role-blocker/ jailkeeper. If it's a roleblocker they should probably claim because most likely they targeted scum. If its a jailkeeper, I guess they wouldn't know if they targeted the scum or the victim,  but, still, does that seem like too much protective power to give town?

Wait wait wait... theory time. What if scum have a poison kill? (i.e. delayed) From my role description, it would seem that I could also protect people that weren't targeted the same night, so that would fit. And I woke up with a headache today and that phenomenon is still unexplained. So I guess if I die tonight, that would be confirmation.

[faust]

Well whatever. You guys seem dead set to lynch me.

I am Anne Glass-Mason, and I have 2 powers. One is a Doctor that doesn't work on Skitters, and the other is releasing harnessed children I can only use one each night.

Do you have any info on what e's role might have been?

Nothing beyond what's publicly available.

[MiX]

I also know nothing about E's role(s).

[jotheonah]

unvote

faust is (A) maybe a doctor and (B) maybe going to die tonight anyway so I think I can find it in my heart not to kill him today.

I really, really hate caving to AtE arguments for precedent-setting reasons, so I want to stress that none of that swayed me here.

now I have to figure out where else to put my vote.

[pubby]

vote: PPS

Dunno if I'll be around for the deadline

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm down for

vote: PPS

[faust]

I'm down for

vote: PPS

L-2

[faust]

For the record, I don't think ADK has told us the whole truth. He is most likely not Espheni-aligned, but I also doubt he's just a Dayvig Survivor.

[MiX]

For the record, I don't think ADK has told us the whole truth. He is most likely not Espheni-aligned, but I also doubt he's just a Dayvig Survivor.

Has anyone told the whole truth?

[faust]

For the record, I don't think ADK has told us the whole truth. He is most likely not Espheni-aligned, but I also doubt he's just a Dayvig Survivor.

Has anyone told the whole truth?

It's fine if people who are town-aligned withhold information, but I'm more wary of scum. For all we know, ADK could be third party who can't win with town.

[pingpongsam]

Damn, I wake up, catch up and see we've killed 3rd party and now have me at L-2.

What's the case?

Also, I see my vote got reset so, Vote: Space

[Awaclus]

What's the case?

What isn't the case?

[Glooble]

For the record, I don't think ADK has told us the whole truth. He is most likely not Espheni-aligned, but I also doubt he's just a Dayvig Survivor.

Honestly, he could even be a traitor.

[pingpongsam]

What's the case?

What isn't the case?

Meh, okay, how about the fact I requested an item? I've seen zero discussion surrounding that which suggests that maybe I'm alone in needing that item. Who is holding it and why was it not given to me? I have my suspicions on who is holding it and even why they didn't/couldn't send it. Without it I am probably the best mislynch we can have, since my power is fairly mundane otherwise. With the item, well, I'd suggest lynching elsewhere.

[jotheonah]

I too would like to see this PPS case that everyone's so into.

[MiX]

For the record, I don't think ADK has told us the whole truth. He is most likely not Espheni-aligned, but I also doubt he's just a Dayvig Survivor.

Honestly, he could even be a traitor.

Wow. Hey, since we're gunning for town (e, faust, now pps) could we kill ADK? Sadly I don't regain shots, but...

Or just Space/shraeye, that's good too.

[MiX]

I too would like to see this PPS case that everyone's so into.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.20:

faust (1): Galzria
PPS (6): Uncle, Datswan, Awaclus, Glooble, pubby, ADK
shraeye (1): Faust
Space (2): MiX, PPS

Not Voting (4): WCD, Space, shraeye, joth

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[Awaclus]

What's the case?

What isn't the case?

Meh, okay, how about the fact I requested an item? I've seen zero discussion surrounding that which suggests that maybe I'm alone in needing that item. Who is holding it and why was it not given to me? I have my suspicions on who is holding it and even why they didn't/couldn't send it. Without it I am probably the best mislynch we can have, since my power is fairly mundane otherwise. With the item, well, I'd suggest lynching elsewhere.

Why can't scum request items?

[faust]

Wow. Hey, since we're gunning for town (e, faust, now pps) could we kill ADK? Sadly I don't regain shots, but...

Or just Space/shraeye, that's good too.

... e wasn't town. But okay, non-Espheni, which is what we're hunting for.

Lynching ADK isn't the worst thing to do here. However it gives nothing of value to analyze, so I'd prefer a shraeye lynch.

[Glooble]

I could do shraeye.

There are four players who were on the MiX wagon and off the EFHW wagon- PPS, pubby, ADK and Shraeye. I think there's scum in that group. Everyone seems to have decided it's not pubby, and ADK is off the table at least for now. So I'm good with PPS or shraeye. I don't honestly see MiX's case for PPS being town.

[MiX]

That's a solid shraeye case.

Vote: shraeye

[SpaceAnemone]

Space and Glooble have both made unprovoked claims to support other players, and that is always a pretty darn townie thing to me. I also think the way Space voted for EFHW was townie; scum would have owned that vote and not gone "well no other wagon will succeed". I am less townie on Glooble now that I know (more or less) that MiX is town!skitter, but Space's role seems to clear Glooble somehow, so there's that.

No, it doesn't. I made it explicitly clear that I have no information directly supporting the idea that Glooble is town:

That's a lot of words for "I know Glooble is town", why even mention anything other than this?

Your logic is flawed. I want to make it clear that I'm not saying I can vouch for Glooble's towniness.

... should I have bolded the "not" for extra emphasis?

This is what I had originally said:

Nothing in my role PM suggests the existence of a second Skitter, nor does it make it seem particularly unlikely. Space’s arguments for scum!MiX are making a certain amount of sense to me.

There's something in my role that does allow for the existence of fully-town-aligned Skitters. I don't know whether all Skitters are town-aligned, but I do know that at least one of them can be. It also seems like there can be more than one Skitter.

I feel like that's not a million miles away from what you said back here:

Fine. I have information available to me that strongly implies that there is at least one town-aligned Skitter.

-- that even made me wonder whether we were coming at this from a similar angle at the time, though I'm not sure, given other stuff you've said.

Entirely independently of Skitter stuff, I just find Glooble towny for his behaviour on the EFHW wagon, because without his refusal to vote for his twin, I would have probably made the wrong call when it came to deadline.

PPE several.

[Glooble]

Okey Dokey.

vote: shraeye

[Galzria]

vote: Shraeye

I’ve been down for that for some time.

[SpaceAnemone]

@MiX, you've said/implied a bunch of times that a big upside you see from lynching me is wagon PoE. I'm really curious what you think you'll get out of me flipping, because I've coloured myself green on all my VCA lists and I'm still not hitting on anything that's particularly compelling, beyond my suspicion of that D1 Joth wagon. Could you give a couple of examples of where specifically having me flipped is good for your analysis? You can specify it either way if you like, but I can guarantee I'm flipping green.

[faust]

Space and Glooble have both made unprovoked claims to support other players, and that is always a pretty darn townie thing to me. I also think the way Space voted for EFHW was townie; scum would have owned that vote and not gone "well no other wagon will succeed". I am less townie on Glooble now that I know (more or less) that MiX is town!skitter, but Space's role seems to clear Glooble somehow, so there's that.

No, it doesn't. I made it explicitly clear that I have no information directly supporting the idea that Glooble is town:

Do you or do you not know that there is a town-aligned skitter?

[pingpongsam]

What's the case?

What isn't the case?

Meh, okay, how about the fact I requested an item? I've seen zero discussion surrounding that which suggests that maybe I'm alone in needing that item. Who is holding it and why was it not given to me? I have my suspicions on who is holding it and even why they didn't/couldn't send it. Without it I am probably the best mislynch we can have, since my power is fairly mundane otherwise. With the item, well, I'd suggest lynching elsewhere.

Why can't scum request items?

Better question; why haven’t they? I’m getting the sense I may be the only one who needs an item to enable a power or else there would have been more discussion. I am assuming town holds it as I can’t see any logical means of acquiring it from scum. I also assume that town has good reason to not publicly claim having it. It’s not immediately apparent to me how else to acquire it without bringing it up. If scum knew to request an item and I were that scum then there would be a town counterclaim at this point which is precisely why I came out of the gate talking about items.

[MiX]

@MiX, you've said/implied a bunch of times that a big upside you see from lynching me is wagon PoE. I'm really curious what you think you'll get out of me flipping, because I've coloured myself green on all my VCA lists and I'm still not hitting on anything that's particularly compelling, beyond my suspicion of that D1 Joth wagon. Could you give a couple of examples of where specifically having me flipped is good for your analysis? You can specify it either way if you like, but I can guarantee I'm flipping green.

Sadly I'm away for a couple of days, so I can't show you examples, but I'm assuming "at least 1 scum was on my wagon" and "at least 1 scum voted for Galzria after EFHW did" and you're essencially the only one that fits both.

That was most of it, even when I removed those shraeye appeared with you as one of two possible partners. Or something.

[Awaclus]

Better question; why haven’t they?

That's a worse question because we don't know that they haven't.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.21:

PPS (5): Uncle, Datswan, Awaclus, pubby, ADK
shraeye (4): Faust, MiX, Glooble, Galzria
Space (1): PPS

Not Voting (4): WCD, Space, shraeye, joth

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.  Day 2 ends at 10:00 p.m. on August 12.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm down for that too

vote:shraeye

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: shraeye phone posting

[MiX]

I think, at this moment, everyone has claimed something...except shraeye and Swan. Am I wrong?

Therefore they're scum. 

[Glooble]

I think, at this moment, everyone has claimed something...except shraeye and Swan. Am I wrong?

Therefore they're scum. 

I don't think Didds has claimed anything.

[MiX]

I think, at this moment, everyone has claimed something...except shraeye and Swan. Am I wrong?

Therefore they're scum. 

I don't think Didds has claimed anything.

I always forget about her. Thanks.

[Uncleeurope]

PPS could be third party as well, in theory.

[Uncleeurope]

Fine, I’m TRing him, but I always do.

Vote: Shraeye

[pingpongsam]

Fine, I’m TRing him, but I always do.

Vote: Shraeye

L-1!

[faust]

Fine, I’m TRing him, but I always do.

Vote: Shraeye

L-1!

I don't think so.

[Galzria]

Fine, I’m TRing him, but I always do.

Vote: Shraeye

L-1!

I don't think so.

L-2

[jotheonah]

Well this is building uncomfortably fast, but then I did say scum would bus today.

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning....I just got here and need to get caught up. Gimme a few minutes.

I am okay with shraeye, but want to see who else is voting for him

[Glooble]

Well this is building uncomfortably fast, but then I did say scum would bus today.

I don't think its that uncomfortable when you consider we have less than 12 hours to deadline. And it's not like its coming out of nowhere. Shraeye's been in the mix for a while.

[pingpongsam]

Fine, I’m TRing him, but I always do.

Vote: Shraeye

L-1!

I don't think so.

L-2

You're right. The back to back ADK votes tripped me up.

Vote: shraeye should tidy that up.

L-1

[Uncleeurope]

We should let him claim, if able, no?

[jotheonah]

We should let him claim, if able, no?

We should. We have time. And I can be the hammer if needed. I'll be around until at least 4 hours before deadline.

[Uncleeurope]

Do we know why Galz mentioned Daychat back in the day by the day?

Because with Daychat I can imagine a double-bus

[Swowl]

Unvote

Just to be safe for a sec - not 100% sure what’s going on. Catching up while driving.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, caught up...and since then Shraeye is at L-1 so I"ll wait to vote until he's claimed.  Or Joth can do it, whatevs. I'll be around this evening.

I prefer a lynch to no lynch, and think there is a good chance that he is the off-wagon scum considering how we have narrowed the pool, but I am not entirely sold on the goodness of ADK and am curious about what bad/good things happen when Eddie dies.

I haven't claimed anything and it doesn't seem like a good idea to do that since there are precious few interactions that haven't been revealed yet. Town seems super strong to me with the pile of conf!town folks, so I am a bit wary of some of the results we are getting. I am especially wary of the MiX result that Galz got.

One thing that I think I can share that might be useful to think about during the night...I had a headache on D1. I don't know what it means or what it did, or how faust (or the friend he is asking for) ended up with it today. 

[faust]

One thing that I think I can share that might be useful to think about during the night...I had a headache on D1. I don't know what it means or what it did, or how faust (or the friend he is asking for) ended up with it today.

Why did you not share this before?

[shraeye]

Galzria needs to wake up to the fact that he's the fool at some point. If that takes my lynch, it's not ideal, but also not the end of the world. I just wish anyone would actually spend some time thinking about the reasons I laid out for why it doesn't make sense for me to behave this way as scum.

Agree.  Galz (and othgers) keep putting out VCA buckets or just suspicion-buckets that seem totally misguided to me.  Maybe that's because I'm not a big one for building suspicion based on votes alone.  Votes are easy to throw around. 

I think at some point Galz had ordered a hit on Eddie (town, ironically nearly a mason with Galz) and had as a backup shoot one of e/shraeye/pubby.  Faust keeps making appearances in similar suspicion lists.

E wasn't scum, I'm an incredibly bad lynch for town, there's no way pubby is an EFHW partner based on everything he's posted, faust is at least 95% nonsuspicious.

Stop hijacking common sense.

[shraeye]

I’m voting [faust] because: A) There’s a good case on [faust]. Two in fact, mine & Swan’s wagon analysis. B) There’s no better case or candidate, no story to be told that really makes sense. C) We’re getting close to deadline.

A) not good cases
B) I have a Space case that apparently isn't worth a comment, cool.  Also Space/PPS are exxxxxcellllent candidates
C) deadline, schmedline.

[shraeye]

I think, at this moment, everyone has claimed something...except shraeye and Swan. Am I wrong?

Therefore they're scum. 

I don't think Didds has claimed anything.

Or Space either?  Or did I miss that?

[shraeye]

I re-read Galz, and I feel like he's both not been supportive of some stuff that seems very sensible to me (e.g. being critical of faust at #264, and also complaining about faust correcting Swan at #367), and also that he's generally more aware of the wagons and voting that maybe faust gave him credit for at the point faust discounted Galz from his lynchpool based on the intent to hammer MiX.. which means I think he really should be someone faust considered at the same time as he started up the EFHW wagon.

Vote: Galz

Isn't this what we're expecting for scum to do word for word?

Well, that's probably because Space is scum.

So Alexis is probably third-party thing that flips win conditions after a while? That's definitely what the colors indicate.

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

[shraeye]

ugh, imagine going to sleep after a busy weekend frustrated because people are building terrible plans, only to wake up more frustrated because the plan is being executed brilliantly and it's poop-conclusion is sitting on the doorstep.


Also, when did I stop voting for Space, ash?

[shraeye]

...yeah...MiX suggesting wincons can change is significant, especially because his ICness is based on sharing a wincon with Galz at the time of the investigation.

[WestCoastDidds]

One thing that I think I can share that might be useful to think about during the night...I had a headache on D1. I don't know what it means or what it did, or how faust (or the friend he is asking for) ended up with it today.

Why did you not share this before?

Why would I? The first time it has come up as a part of any real discussion was this morning in your post, so I shared it since it seemed relevant now. 

[SpaceAnemone]

Space and Glooble have both made unprovoked claims to support other players, and that is always a pretty darn townie thing to me. I also think the way Space voted for EFHW was townie; scum would have owned that vote and not gone "well no other wagon will succeed". I am less townie on Glooble now that I know (more or less) that MiX is town!skitter, but Space's role seems to clear Glooble somehow, so there's that.

No, it doesn't. I made it explicitly clear that I have no information directly supporting the idea that Glooble is town:

Do you or do you not know that there is a town-aligned skitter?

I do not know for sure that there is a town-aligned skitter at the moment.

I know that it is possible for a particular flavour name to change into a skitter, and that their wincon will not alter if that happens. That's why I'm saying it's not either of our claimed skitters, since they haven't given any indication that they were ever humans in this game.

[SpaceAnemone]

One thing that I think I can share that might be useful to think about during the night...I had a headache on D1. I don't know what it means or what it did, or how faust (or the friend he is asking for) ended up with it today.

Why did you not share this before?

Why would I? The first time it has come up as a part of any real discussion was this morning in your post, so I shared it since it seemed relevant now.

Do you mean this morning as in the start of D2? Because faust first mentioned a headache about 9 days ago IRL.

However, there are good reasons not to share everything from a QT, so I think "why would I?" is a reasonable response anyway.

[SpaceAnemone]

B) I have a Space case that apparently isn't worth a comment, cool.  Also Space/PPS are exxxxxcellllent candidates

Your case on my was based on a load of null plus one count of being hedgey.

Several of people who know my playstyle pretty well have pointed out that I'm just being me.

(Also, in answer to your "when" question: all the voting was reset after e's flip).

[shraeye]

Your case on my was based on a load of null plus one count of being hedgey.

Several of people who know my playstyle pretty well have pointed out that I'm just being me.

(Also, in answer to your "when" question: all the voting was reset after e's flip).

No, it wasn't null.  You pretended I said "Space logs on later than most" and refuted that.

Secondly, you DO normally contribute a lot more proactively than you have been.

[shraeye]

vote: Space

[WestCoastDidds]

One thing that I think I can share that might be useful to think about during the night...I had a headache on D1. I don't know what it means or what it did, or how faust (or the friend he is asking for) ended up with it today.

Why did you not share this before?

Why would I? The first time it has come up as a part of any real discussion was this morning in your post, so I shared it since it seemed relevant now.

Do you mean this morning as in the start of D2? Because faust first mentioned a headache about 9 days ago IRL.

However, there are good reasons not to share everything from a QT, so I think "why would I?" is a reasonable response anyway.

faust never asked if it had happened to anyone else, he asked if anyone who knew the flavor knew what it meant. (I didn't and still don't). Then today, he returned to the topic with some guesses.

Wait wait wait... theory time. What if scum have a poison kill? (i.e. delayed) From my role description, it would seem that I could also protect people that weren't targeted the same night, so that would fit. And I woke up with a headache today and that phenomenon is still unexplained. So I guess if I die tonight, that would be confirmation.

This makes my information valuable to someone else who I don't think is scum, so I shared it.

[shraeye]

If you all actually want to get EFHW's partners, I can tell you it's 100% space, and guess that it's 85% PPS. 

The other percentages are 12% Glooble and 3% WCD or Awaclus.  Also, I'm operating under the assumption of 3 Ephez-whatevs now that E's flip showed a different color.

[MiX]

So Alexis is probably third-party thing that flips win conditions after a while? That's definitely what the colors indicate.

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

Because of that word in your PM that makes sense but is very oddly specific.

Actually, whoever answers the above out of Space/shraeye lives. GO!

(Disclaimer: don't do this without Galzria's permission).

Space and Glooble have both made unprovoked claims to support other players, and that is always a pretty darn townie thing to me. I also think the way Space voted for EFHW was townie; scum would have owned that vote and not gone "well no other wagon will succeed". I am less townie on Glooble now that I know (more or less) that MiX is town!skitter, but Space's role seems to clear Glooble somehow, so there's that.

No, it doesn't. I made it explicitly clear that I have no information directly supporting the idea that Glooble is town:

Do you or do you not know that there is a town-aligned skitter?

I do not know for sure that there is a town-aligned skitter at the moment.

I know that it is possible for a particular flavour name to change into a skitter, and that their wincon will not alter if that happens. That's why I'm saying it's not either of our claimed skitters, since they haven't given any indication that they were ever humans in this game.

That is COMPLETELY different and most definitely does NOT confirm either me nor Glooble.

[faust]

...yeah...MiX suggesting wincons can change is significant, especially because his ICness is based on sharing a wincon with Galz at the time of the investigation.

Well, you can ask ash in your QT and he will tell you that win conditions cannot change.

[jotheonah]

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

There's a five-letter word in my win-con that suggests it can't change (but suggests that others can). Why don't you check your PM and tell me if it's in yours?

[pingpongsam]

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

There's a five-letter word in my win-con that suggests it can't change (but suggests that others can). Why don't you check your PM and tell me if it's in yours?

I have the 5 letter word in mine. The second letter is "i".

[jotheonah]

shraeye is here and hasn't claimed and doesn't seem likely to.

intent to hammer.

[pingpongsam]

shraeye is here and hasn't claimed and doesn't seem likely to.

intent to hammer.

fairly sure Swan unvoted leaving us at L-2.

[Uncleeurope]

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

There's a five-letter word in my win-con that suggests it can't change (but suggests that others can). Why don't you check your PM and tell me if it's in yours?

I have the 5 letter word in mine. The second letter is "i".

This seems cheater-ey, is this allowed?

[shraeye]

Son,

What about "I. know. Space. is. EFHW's. partner." isn't a claim to you?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: Space

[Glooble]

Vote: Space and if they're town we lynch shraeye immediately tomorrow.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, we know that one of Shraeye/Space is evil now. I am just concerned that this could be Shraeye last-ditching a free mislymch.

[Galzria]

Vote: Space and if they're town we lynch shraeye immediately tomorrow.

Let’s lynch Shraeye and if they’re town, lynch Space tomorrow.

[jotheonah]

Son,

What about "I. know. Space. is. EFHW's. partner." isn't a claim to you?

Well the only role that would know that is ... EFHW's other partner. So if that's a claim, you're claiming scum.

[Glooble]

Vote: Space and if they're town we lynch shraeye immediately tomorrow.

Let’s lynch Shraeye and if they’re town, lynch Space tomorrow.

I guess that works just as well.


vote: shraeye

[shraeye]

Vote: Space and if they're town we lynch shraeye immediately tomorrow.

Let’s lynch Shraeye and if they’re town, lynch Space tomorrow.

I guess that works just as well.


vote: shraeye

You forego another chance at a cop result this way.  It is not clever.

[jotheonah]

What the juice-stop makes you think win conditions can change?

There's a five-letter word in my win-con that suggests it can't change (but suggests that others can). Why don't you check your PM and tell me if it's in yours?

I have the 5 letter word in mine. The second letter is "i".

This seems cheater-ey, is this allowed?

This is a fair point. We are dancing on the edge of a line and we should stop. I apologize for starting it.

[jotheonah]

So we're supposed to believe you're a cop with a guilty result who has been just sitting on it all day, even when someone claimed dayvig and asked for a target and Galz said his role would benefit from a scum kill?

[shraeye]

Well, we know that one of Shraeye/Space is evil now. I am just concerned that this could be Shraeye last-ditching a free mislymch.

What about my entire day makes you think this is "last minute ditching"??  I'm not sure how I implicate Space much more than I did.

[MiX]

Let's face it, scum can't afford to conflict here.

Vote: Space and if they're town we lynch shraeye immediately tomorrow.

Let’s lynch Shraeye and if they’re town, lynch Space tomorrow.

I prefer this, so that if shraeye's town and Space's scum I can say "listen to the VCA!" and otherwise say "listen to reads!" and never be wrong.

So we're supposed to believe you're a cop with a guilty result who has been just sitting on it all day, even when someone claimed dayvig and asked for a target and Galz said his role would benefit from a scum kill?

Rereading shraeye as we speak...

PPE 1

[Galzria]

So we're supposed to believe you're a cop with a guilty result who has been just sitting on it all day, even when someone claimed dayvig and asked for a target and Galz said his role would benefit from a scum kill?

[jotheonah]

vote: shraeye

[shraeye]

A) I was against the dayvig, go check it
B) Good point, I was silly for not outing my role in order to improve the role of somebody who had a huge scum-target on their back.  #sarcasm

[Galzria]

A) I was against the dayvig, go check it
B) Good point, I was silly for not outing my role in order to improve the role of somebody who had a huge scum-target on their back.  #sarcasm

You were against the day-Vig... when you knew who Scum was? Uh-huh... makes sense...

[shraeye]

James Firetrucking Billington you fools are stubborn.  I'm off, enjoy yourselves.

[Glooble]

At this point if we:

lynch shraeye, he comes up town -> we know Space is scum
lynch shraeye, he comes up scum -> Space is probably town, or part of the gutsiest bus ever

lynch Space, they come up town -> we know shraeye is scum
lynch Space, they come up scum -> shraeye is probably town, or part of the gutsiest bus ever


I guess the possible cop result is worth considering, but I don't think its worth having Space claim, given all the info scum has already.

[jotheonah]

yeah no. If you're really a town cop, you let ADK kill e when you could have offered up a guaranteed scum lynch as an alternative. That's really bad town play.

You've had a lot of chances to claim this not under duress. You've chosen to claim it in the scummiest way with the scummiest timing possible. I don't remotely believe you.

[Galzria]

Eddie can hammer.

[Uncleeurope]

Eddie can hammer.

Sigh, I tried, Shraeye, I wanted to believe you.

Vote: Shraeye

[MiX]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

Lol shraeye is scum.

[Glooble]

I guess they were off wagon, so there is that.

Are we just running everyone who was off wagon up to L-1?

That seems to be the master plan.

I oppose the vig-Eddie plan too.  I feel like everybody's reads are still off enough that vig+lynch is likely to result in two town losses and give up our advantage.  It seems there are some sweet "I know things, or have the power to learn things" abilities; why not wait until we KNOW KNOW a scum and shoot that?

Lol shraeye is scum.

That's a smoking gun, yup.

[pingpongsam]

Is he dead, yet? Do we need a Vote: shraeye?

[Glooble]

Pretty sure Eddie was the hammer but hey why not? He could be loved I guess.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty sure Eddie was the hammer but hey why not? He could be loved I guess.

I think I was already voting him. A vote count would be cool but I'm guessing when ash gets around to that we will just go straight to twilight. The way shraeye bounced leads me to believe we got a direct hit.

[Glooble]

Pretty sure Eddie was the hammer but hey why not? He could be loved I guess.

I think I was already voting him. A vote count would be cool but I'm guessing when ash gets around to that we will just go straight to twilight. The way shraeye bounced leads me to believe we got a direct hit.

Yeah I think MiX more of less proved that.

[Galzria]

Joth hammered actually, no? Swan was on PPS when he unvoted, not Shraeye.

[Glooble]

Joth hammered actually, no? Swan was on PPS when he unvoted, not Shraeye.

No cause Eddie had switched to Space, then he came back.

[Galzria]

Joth hammered actually, no? Swan was on PPS when he unvoted, not Shraeye.

No cause Eddie had switched to Space, then he came back.

Eddie was also on PPS, not Shraeye.

[Galzria]

Joth hammered actually, no? Swan was on PPS when he unvoted, not Shraeye.

No cause Eddie had switched to Space, then he came back.

Eddie was also on PPS, not Shraeye.

Ah, nevermind. I missed it.

[pingpongsam]

My final count is faust, mix, galz, adk, pps, glooble, joth, eddie for the hammer.

Joth, you still think scum busses with that final wagon?

[MiX]

Scum busses so hard I bet they flipped from Space to shraeye ASAP. Or not. But they do bus.

We have the rest of D2 (pretty much all before E's flip is golden) for good VCA anyway.

[jotheonah]

Well things have changed quite a bit since I said that. That is a pretty townie bunch generally.

[shraeye]

Guess what? I ain't Ephez, crew...

So good luck with that

[Uncleeurope]

Guess what? I ain't Ephez, crew...

So good luck with that

Which drastically increases the likelihood that Space is still a baddie.

[shraeye]

Like I said

[shraeye]

Next time, how about believing cops?

[MiX]

Next time, how about believing cops?

How about not lying in the quote I brought up? You're still scum to me.

And if not I'm an IC PGO cop, joy!

[shraeye]

Lynch the cop to see if they're trustworthy is dumb dumb dumb.

I didnt lie in that quote.

[Galzria]

Next time, how about believing cops?

Next time, how about saying "Yo, I got a scum result and we got a day-vig"

[Galzria]

Lynch the cop to see if they're trustworthy is dumb dumb dumb.

I didnt lie in that quote.

Cops not claiming when we can shoot scum is dumb dumb dumb.

[shraeye]

Scum was never going to NK me, having two results tomorrow would have been better.  100% of the time

[jotheonah]

You have only yourself to blame.

[shraeye]

You have only yourself to blame.

No, it turns out I'm also blaming you and Galz.

[jotheonah]

I ain't Ephez, crew...

I notice you didn't say you ARE town

[shraeye]

You couldn't tell when I didn't know the secret word that is in town PM, but apparently not in the sample town win-con in setup posts?

[MiX]

Scum was never going to NK me, having two results tomorrow would have been better.  100% of the time

Fine, but you still lied, there waa another way to say that without saying that you didn't "KNOW KNOW" who scun was.

Also shooting space and then lynching you was 200% better for us.

You couldn't tell when I didn't know the secret word that is in town PM, but apparently not in the sample town win-con in setup posts?

Oh.

[shraeye]

Scum was never going to NK me, having two results tomorrow would have been better.  100% of the time

Fine, but you still lied, there waa another way to say that without saying that you didn't "KNOW KNOW" who scun was.

Also shooting space and then lynching you was 200% better for us.

You couldn't tell when I didn't know the secret word that is in town PM, but apparently not in the sample town win-con in setup posts?

Oh.

Why would lynching me be good if you already shot Space?

[Galzria]

You have only yourself to blame.

No, it turns out I'm also blaming you and Galz.

For your poor play? That’s cool. You can do whatever you want.

But the facts are:
- We’ve already lynched one scum, and prevented a NK. We are so far ahead of the game it’s ridiculous.
- You has an IC claiming that killing scum powers him up.
- We has an opportunity to attempt TWICE to get scum kills, and you promoted against it.
- Further, you’ve now claimed to know the identity of a scum player.
- You could have guaranteed powering up my PR, given us a SECOND scum kill before the end of DAY 2, remained at Zero town deaths and IC’d yourself.

Instead, we are now where we are now.

So yeah. Thanks for that.

[shraeye]

I have no reason to power up a player with an obvious Target on their back.  As town, or as me.

[Galzria]

I have no reason to power up a player with an obvious Target on their back.  As town, or as me.

I wasn’t the only IC, we have claimed doctors, and we already prevented a NK once. That’s a bad argument Shraeye.

[jotheonah]

Are you in the yellow faction with e? Is that faction called "allies"?

[Galzria]

I have no reason to power up a player with an obvious Target on their back.  As town, or as me.

I wasn’t the only IC, we have claimed doctors, and we already prevented a NK once. That’s a bad argument Shraeye.

Now, yeah, if you’re not town then maybe you don’t want me powered up. That’s completely reasonable. But then so is this, the end result of that choice.

[shraeye]

Also, look at Glooble.  He was not sitting well, and he has been tooooo excited to latch onto plans.

[MiX]

Just full claim anything non-power related.

[shraeye]

It's detrimental to town for me to say everything.

[pubby]

What's your cop role ability anwyay? Galzria's made it seem like it tested for alignments matching his, rather than guilty/not-guilty.

[shraeye]

What's your cop role ability anwyay? Galzria's made it seem like it tested for alignments matching his, rather than guilty/not-guilty.

I already said exactly what it was.  Plus, it's irrelevant because of my lynch.

[Awaclus]

It's detrimental to town for me to say everything.

How about your own faction?

[shraeye]

It's detrimental to town for me to say everything.

How about your own faction?

I'm lynched, my faction is a solid L, bro.  I ain't no jester.

[MiX]

Any teammates, or are you alone?

[Swowl]

Well i have just arrived home and caught up but it seems like everything is already done and accounted for.

Correct?

[MiX]

Seems like it.

Apparently I won't be here for deadline, no sweet twilight for me. Also for future days/planning, I only get powers after the day ends (that is, I didn't get E yet).

Good Night everyone.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow.. that's a bunch of exciting catching up! Thank you for not lynching me I guess.

Vote: Shraeye for good measure.

[SpaceAnemone]

I mean, his grumpy AtE at the moment makes me assume he's just caught scum of some variety, but while he seems to be worryingly sure that I'm scum, I have nothing to incriminate him.. which feels bad in case I'm getting framed somehow if he doesn't come up with a scummy enough flip.

[WestCoastDidds]

I swear, never have found myself so out of synch timing-wise with when folks are active in the game. That was another huge flurry of activity while I was at work...but it looks like Shraeye has a better than good chance of being a baddie. It might be better that I wasn’t around. He is so convincing (to me) when he’s down... his case on Space is compelling but then I wonder, why so late? And then the fight with Galz? Oof.  I’m not used to so much open conflict.

I guess we’ll see. The good news is that I can go to the gym now instead of waiting until after DL! Score one for the early birds!

[shraeye]

I swear, never have found myself so out of synch timing-wise with when folks are active in the game. That was another huge flurry of activity while I was at work...but it looks like Shraeye has a better than good chance of being a baddie. It might be better that I wasn’t around. He is so convincing (to me) when he’s down... his case on Space is compelling but then I wonder, why so late? And then the fight with Galz? Oof.  I’m not used to so much open conflict.

I guess we’ll see. The good news is that I can go to the gym now instead of waiting until after DL! Score one for the early birds!

Still not a baddie.

Is my compelling case on space "I have a result on her"?  Because that's a weird way to characterize the posts of somebody who you just said was likely a baddie.

[Swowl]

I swear, never have found myself so out of synch timing-wise with when folks are active in the game. That was another huge flurry of activity while I was at work...but it looks like Shraeye has a better than good chance of being a baddie. It might be better that I wasn’t around. He is so convincing (to me) when he’s down... his case on Space is compelling but then I wonder, why so late? And then the fight with Galz? Oof.  I’m not used to so much open conflict.

I guess we’ll see. The good news is that I can go to the gym now instead of waiting until after DL! Score one for the early birds!

Still not a baddie.

Is my compelling case on space "I have a result on her"?  Because that's a weird way to characterize the posts of somebody who you just said was likely a baddie.

Right... but what is your result?
I mean i get it doesn’t matter at this point but i think that is a hold up people are/we’re having, because given what we are privy to info wise... result can mean a lot.

And i mean... if you are town... you probz should of claimed at the time of the Vig shot. You really don’t see how that comes off as like super incriminating?

[ashersky]

D2 Final Vote Count:

PPS (2): Awaclus, pubby
shraeye (8): Faust, MiX, Galzria, ADK, PPS, Glooble, joth, Uncle
Space (1): shraeye

Not Voting (3): WCD, Space, Datswan

With 14 alive, it took 8 to lynch.

[ashersky]

Twilight starts now.

[Galzria]

*twiddles thumbs*

[Galzria]

Anybody got some Twilight Powers they want to share with the class?

[shraeye]

I swear, never have found myself so out of synch timing-wise with when folks are active in the game. That was another huge flurry of activity while I was at work...but it looks like Shraeye has a better than good chance of being a baddie. It might be better that I wasn’t around. He is so convincing (to me) when he’s down... his case on Space is compelling but then I wonder, why so late? And then the fight with Galz? Oof.  I’m not used to so much open conflict.

I guess we’ll see. The good news is that I can go to the gym now instead of waiting until after DL! Score one for the early birds!

Still not a baddie.

Is my compelling case on space "I have a result on her"?  Because that's a weird way to characterize the posts of somebody who you just said was likely a baddie.

Right... but what is your result?
I mean i get it doesn’t matter at this point but i think that is a hold up people are/we’re having, because given what we are privy to info wise... result can mean a lot.

And i mean... if you are town... you probz should of claimed at the time of the Vig shot. You really don’t see how that comes off as like super incriminating?

You mean the vig shot that shouldn't have happened? 

I guess you fall into the "hidden town cop should out themselves to ensure that the cop power gets transfered to galz, who has a huge target on their back" camp.  I hope y'all see how silly that argument is.

[shraeye]

I mean, you could say it's a moot point because I wasn't "town", except the point is still valid.

Right... but what is your result?

Also, I said my exact result

[Galzria]

You’re all boring. 😉

Well, in the event of my untimely demise this upcoming night:

If Shraeye flips anything other than a partner of EFHW you should be lynching Space tomorrow. While Shraeye’s play has not been pro-town, it is easily argued (and I believe) that it has been pro-him. His decision to not claim his information during Vig time can be easily attributed to a desire to NOT draw attention to himself. Like he said, he wasn’t going to be the NK, so why make that a possibility? He’s pushed Space from the outset of Day 2, and his play is consistent with him having a scum result on Space.

Shraeye, I don’t think you played that badly as a non-town faction. I completely get where you came from. Unfortunately I’m not said faction, and while you may have a result that does ultimately end helping Town (thank you), your overall play just didn’t parse from a purely pro-Town point of view - which is the only view I have.

[Galzria]

I swear, never have found myself so out of synch timing-wise with when folks are active in the game. That was another huge flurry of activity while I was at work...but it looks like Shraeye has a better than good chance of being a baddie. It might be better that I wasn’t around. He is so convincing (to me) when he’s down... his case on Space is compelling but then I wonder, why so late? And then the fight with Galz? Oof.  I’m not used to so much open conflict.

I guess we’ll see. The good news is that I can go to the gym now instead of waiting until after DL! Score one for the early birds!

Still not a baddie.

Is my compelling case on space "I have a result on her"?  Because that's a weird way to characterize the posts of somebody who you just said was likely a baddie.

Right... but what is your result?
I mean i get it doesn’t matter at this point but i think that is a hold up people are/we’re having, because given what we are privy to info wise... result can mean a lot.

And i mean... if you are town... you probz should of claimed at the time of the Vig shot. You really don’t see how that comes off as like super incriminating?

You mean the vig shot that shouldn't have happened? 

I guess you fall into the "hidden town cop should out themselves to ensure that the cop power gets transfered to galz, who has a huge target on their back" camp.  I hope y'all see how silly that argument is.

I’ve already spoken to why that’s a ridiculous line of thinking. TWO dead scum & ZERO dead town before Day 2 ends with 3 IC’s and a handful more people (yourself included) falling into a near unlynchable category far exceeds any “potential concerns” you might have for my life given Doctor claims and an already prevented N1 scum kill.

Yes, it was the right move for YOU to make. But it was anti-town.

[shraeye]

Didn't the doctor claims come after the vig shot?

[Galzria]

Didn't the doctor claims come after the vig shot?

Not Glooble’s, who specifically said he could protect me at night.

[shraeye]

Didn't the doctor claims come after the vig shot?

Not Glooble’s, who specifically said he could protect me at night.

Well touche, I'd still be shocked if you live AND get to use your powers tonight.

[Galzria]

Alrighty - let’s just get this out there and stop spinning some wheels, eh?

MiX was investigated to share my wincon last night.

Well that's convenient.

Can you answer my question?

I see your question. I don’t see any value in answering it one way, another, or neither.

Can you trust that me knowing this one small piece of info is hugely beneficial to town, otherwise I wouldn't be asking? The value to scum of knowing one particular flavor name that one particular towny is not seems negligible to me by comparison.

Galz, you're an IC who's claimed an investigative role. You've already got the biggest target on your head. One little piece of info isn't going to change that. But it might help me save your life.

[Galzria]

Didn't the doctor claims come after the vig shot?

Not Glooble’s, who specifically said he could protect me at night.

Well touche, I'd still be shocked if you live AND get to use your powers tonight.

It will depend largely on if either you or e were considered threats to the town. If you were, I live. If you’re not, then...

[jotheonah]

Anybody got some Twilight Powers they want to share with the class?

Living forever, sparkling in the moonlight, dreaminess

[ashersky]

What a day.  But then, you could say that every day since the Espheni invasion.  Our world went from normal to insane movie set overnight.  And so we are here, just trying to survive.

Survival is the only thing that matters, right?  Staying alive, keeping our loved ones close, maybe ensuring humanity goes on.

To do that, we need to rid this planet of threats.  All of them. But how can we find them?

shraeye has been lynched! He was Sara, a Troubled Survivor.

Night 2 starts now.

[ashersky]

Action orders MUST be submitted within 24 hours.  Night will last a minimum of 48 hours.

[ashersky]

As the sun rose on another day, most are happy to still be alive.  Some would say they’d rather be dead and gone, without anything to worry about.  But that’s probably just the desperation talking.

Our group is dirtier, wearier even after the sleep.  Maybe it’s the lack of trust, or the deep sadness we cannot escape.  Only a victory over the invaders will lift that from our shoulders, and our hearts.

The group of kids, they are just standing around again, facing each other.  But, yes, there!  Another kid running off, harness tossed aside.  Thank goodne...no.  No.  Another, on the ground, not moving. Down to eight, I guess.  Damn it.

joth has been killed in the night!  He was Hal Mason, a 2nd Mass Mason Lionheart.

Day 3 begins now!

[Awaclus]

Checking in, don't have anything in particular that I want to report.

[Glooble]

vote: Space

I don’t see any reason Shraeye would lie when he’d already lost.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.1:

Space (1): Glooble

Not Voting (11): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, Space, Uncleeurope, pubby

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 3 ends at 8:30 p.m. on August 21.

[Galzria]

ADK, I need you to give the same shoot order as you did yesterday in thread to verify your claim yesterday. This time at Space.

[Galzria]

Faust, another Child set free?

[Galzria]

Awaclus, Hayes today?

[Galzria]

Awaclus, Hayes today?

Hated*

[Galzria]

Faust, wanna update on the headache?

[Galzria]

Anybody else have a headache?

[Galzria]

PPS, any information on your item?

[Galzria]

Glooble, how’d that doctor thing work out?

[Galzria]

MiX, e powers & Shraeye powers?

[Galzria]

Eddie, anything you would like to share?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, Hayes today?

Hated*

Yeah, I'm still hated.

[Glooble]

Glooble, how’d that doctor thing work out?

The person I targeted is still alive.

[Galzria]

Anybody wants to claim town, with a town win-con, but NOT green identifying text - now’s your chance.

[pubby]

Vote: Glooble and you should too.

[pubby]

Did you investigate, Galzria?

[pubby]

I'll probably claim tomorrow.

[Galzria]

Vote: Glooble and you should too.

I have no intention of voting Glooble. Now, or at any point today.

[Galzria]

Did you investigate, Galzria?

If I feel I have a relevant piece of information, I’ll share.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.2:

Space (1): Glooble
Glooble (1): pubby

Not Voting (10): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, MiX, Space, Uncleeurope

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 3 ends at 8:30 p.m. on August 21.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK, I need you to give the same shoot order as you did yesterday in thread to verify your claim yesterday. This time at Space.

shoot: space

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also vote: space

[Uncleeurope]

I have a headache.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.3:

Space (2): Glooble, ADK
Glooble (1): pubby

Not Voting (9): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, MiX, Space, Uncleeurope

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.  Day 3 ends at 8:30 p.m. on August 21.

[Swowl]

I have a headache.

So that is PPS, Faust and Eddie with headaches. No one has any info on that?

[Uncleeurope]

Wait, wasn’t WCD involved?

[Swowl]

Wait, wasn’t WCD involved?

woops yeah you are correct. WCD, Faust, Eddie. I had PPS in my notes, but I just double checked and it is for sure WCD.

[Swowl]

Vote: Glooble and you should too.

why do you think Glooble is Skum over Space here? Or I guess, better put... why would you rather lynch Glooble instead of Space today?

[Swowl]

Elephant in the room question - Has anyone played a game with 2 survivors in it before?

[faust]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

[faust]

Faust, wanna update on the headache?

I would like to hear from WCD first about the topic if possible.

[Uncleeurope]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

[Swowl]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

Who is the third IC?
Galz, Joth, and (I assume you are implying MiX)?

[Uncleeurope]

He is a goodie 90% of the time here.

[Swowl]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

but actually this is kind of weird on its own.

you release a child, and they assumedly use on to NK. That brings us to 8.
if you don't release a child, they would have 9.

Even if you release a child every single night, living to the end of the game, that assumedly runs them out of NKs heading into Day 8 if my math is right. That is like planning... way the hell ahead assuming we get that far in the game without it ending given how far ahead we are right now.

[Swowl]

He is a goodie 90% of the time here.

No argument on that one. Just clarifying.

[SpaceAnemone]

Whoa.. trying to vig me before I'm even awake and able to claim is not cool. Give me a few mins to wake up and get to my computer, and I'll claim stuff. I don't have anything likely to prevent me dying, but it will definitely be of use to town tomorrow.

[faust]

Elephant in the room question - Has anyone played a game with 2 survivors in it before?

I doubt that shraeye had a Survivor wincon.

[faust]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

Actually, the optimal time would be with one IC.

[faust]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

but actually this is kind of weird on its own.

you release a child, and they assumedly use on to NK. That brings us to 8.
if you don't release a child, they would have 9.

Even if you release a child every single night, living to the end of the game, that assumedly runs them out of NKs heading into Day 8 if my math is right. That is like planning... way the hell ahead assuming we get that far in the game without it ending given how far ahead we are right now.

I'm not sure why you assume that the children are used for nightkills, or why you assume that I would have assumed that prior to any nightkills happening.

[Uncleeurope]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

Actually, the optimal time would be with one IC.

With 3 ICs and two doctors you didn’t like the odds? Can you elaborate further?

[faust]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

Actually, the optimal time would be with one IC.

With 3 ICs and two doctors you didn’t like the odds? Can you elaborate further?

Well, the odds of Glooble hitting the right target are like 1/3. The odds of me hitting the right target and Glooble not hitting the same target are 1/3*2/3 = 2/9. That is the fraction in which using my power would have done something. (this calculation is strongly simplified and you can poke a bunch of holes in it, but it gets the idea across)

[SpaceAnemone]

I am now a Skitter. This is what I was trying to get at when I said I know there's at least one possible skitter with a purely town wincon, but I didn't want to spell it out earlier.

I let myself get transformed overnight to gain some info for town, and now I know that there are three Espheni members left.

Through my other power, I've discovered that the Espheni Queen is not among the flavour names in the game, either as players of fake-claims.

If Shraeye really did have an incriminating cop result on me, then there's something messing with cop results in this game, and we should be careful about trusting them. I know of no reason why an investigative result on me would be returned incorrectly (e.g. I'm not knowingly a miller or anything like that).

[SpaceAnemone]

Oh, and I've had a headache all game that's been getting steadily worse. I was reluctant to mention it before in case knowing who had headaches made certain people better targets for scum or something.

[faust]

Can you claim your flavor?

[faust]

It seems worth noting that shraeye's flavor character is in a relationship with ADK's claimed flavor in the show.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

[SpaceAnemone]

Can you claim your flavor?

Jeanne Weaver. The Espheni faction apparently already knows that the character with my flavour name has info on them, so I guess there's no harm revealing that to town, given that scum will already have put it together with my claim.

My becoming a Skitter was only possible after the player with my character's father's name as a flavour name or fake-claim name had flipped, but our D1 lynch sorted that one out.

[MiX]

It's time to get mysterious: I don't have unlimited UB powers. To hide my restriction(s), I'll have to be vague...

I know e's power. I do not know shraeye's power. I have joth's power.

@Galzria, did joth still have a shot?

I am now a Skitter. This is what I was trying to get at when I said I know there's at least one possible skitter with a purely town wincon, but I didn't want to spell it out earlier.

I let myself get transformed overnight to gain some info for town, and now I know that there are three Espheni members left.

Through my other power, I've discovered that the Espheni Queen is not among the flavour names in the game, either as players of fake-claims.

If Shraeye really did have an incriminating cop result on me, then there's something messing with cop results in this game, and we should be careful about trusting them. I know of no reason why an investigative result on me would be returned incorrectly (e.g. I'm not knowingly a miller or anything like that).

Were you always town with the same win condition? When did you have a headache? Do you still have it? Can you detail how you learned that there's no Espheni Queen? Why shouldn't we lynch you regardless?


Also who gave me an item and why? I have no use for it. Also is this a good question?

[faust]

Can you claim your flavor?

Jeanne Weaver. The Espheni faction apparently already knows that the character with my flavour name has info on them, so I guess there's no harm revealing that to town, given that scum will already have put it together with my claim.

My becoming a Skitter was only possible after the player with my character's father's name as a flavour name or fake-claim name had flipped, but our D1 lynch sorted that one out.

Why did you delay becoming a skitter and didn't do it during N1?

[MiX]

Faust, another Child set free?

Yes. I debated doctoring one of you, but it seemed like Glooble had that covered.

Uhhhh, what?

Even though there were three ICs you went with not doctoring? Seemed like an optimal doctor time to me.

Actually, the optimal time would be with one IC.

With 3 ICs and two doctors you didn’t like the odds? Can you elaborate further?

Well, the odds of Glooble hitting the right target are like 1/3. The odds of me hitting the right target and Glooble not hitting the same target are 1/3*2/3 = 2/9. That is the fraction in which using my power would have done something. (this calculation is strongly simplified and you can poke a bunch of holes in it, but it gets the idea across)

Except Glooble probably can't hit joth and you can't hit me. So the odds of you both hitting the same person are 1/4, and that's only if you both go for Galzria, which is precisely why joth died instead. And I don't know much, but you could safely target joth and protect 2/3 of ICs. Instead you picked an option that you still don't know what it does for town.

Insert policy vote for faust here

Vote: Glooble and you should too.

Yeah this is very far from happening unless you give us something.

[faust]

Except Glooble probably can't hit joth and you can't hit me. So the odds of you both hitting the same person are 1/4, and that's only if you both go for Galzria, which is precisely why joth died instead. And I don't know much, but you could safely target joth and protect 2/3 of ICs. Instead you picked an option that you still don't know what it does for town.

I thought it pretty safe to assume that scum wouldn't target joth unless they had a way of getting around my protection.

[MiX]

Except Glooble probably can't hit joth and you can't hit me. So the odds of you both hitting the same person are 1/4, and that's only if you both go for Galzria, which is precisely why joth died instead. And I don't know much, but you could safely target joth and protect 2/3 of ICs. Instead you picked an option that you still don't know what it does for town.

I thought it pretty safe to assume that scum wouldn't target joth unless they had a way of getting around my protection.

Which is why you don't play games with scum as doctor. Moving on...

Space's claim, if true, basically says ADK is scum: can anyone see 9 town, 3 third-parties AND 4 scum? Because I can't. Yet Space didn't vote for ADK.

Vote: Space

[faust]

Except Glooble probably can't hit joth and you can't hit me. So the odds of you both hitting the same person are 1/4, and that's only if you both go for Galzria, which is precisely why joth died instead. And I don't know much, but you could safely target joth and protect 2/3 of ICs. Instead you picked an option that you still don't know what it does for town.

I thought it pretty safe to assume that scum wouldn't target joth unless they had a way of getting around my protection.

Which is why you don't play games with scum as doctor. Moving on...

Space's claim, if true, basically says ADK is scum: can anyone see 9 town, 3 third-parties AND 4 scum? Because I can't. Yet Space didn't vote for ADK.

Vote: Space

I don't think there are 3 third parties; I think ADK is shraeye's partner.

[MiX]

Except Glooble probably can't hit joth and you can't hit me. So the odds of you both hitting the same person are 1/4, and that's only if you both go for Galzria, which is precisely why joth died instead. And I don't know much, but you could safely target joth and protect 2/3 of ICs. Instead you picked an option that you still don't know what it does for town.

I thought it pretty safe to assume that scum wouldn't target joth unless they had a way of getting around my protection.

Which is why you don't play games with scum as doctor. Moving on...

Space's claim, if true, basically says ADK is scum: can anyone see 9 town, 3 third-parties AND 4 scum? Because I can't. Yet Space didn't vote for ADK.

Vote: Space

I don't think there are 3 third parties; I think ADK is shraeye's partner.

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

[faust]

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Considering the power level of town that seems perfectly acceptable.

[MiX]

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Well, depends, I have his ability to know this, and I wouldn't be able to distinguish between e and shraeye.

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Considering the power level of town that seems perfectly acceptable.

But they would rule the day, right? Especially since 2 of them are survivors, all you would need is a mislynch and a good NK and ADK's vig can seal the deal.

[faust]

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Considering the power level of town that seems perfectly acceptable.

But they would rule the day, right? Especially since 2 of them are survivors, all you would need is a mislynch and a good NK and ADK's vig can seal the deal.

What? No. I expressedly don't think ADK or shraeye are Survivors.

[MiX]

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Considering the power level of town that seems perfectly acceptable.

But they would rule the day, right? Especially since 2 of them are survivors, all you would need is a mislynch and a good NK and ADK's vig can seal the deal.

What? No. I expressedly don't think ADK or shraeye are Survivors.

Oh. Right, you said you didn't think shraeye is a survivor. Why aren't you voting for ADK then?

[faust]

Oh. Right, you said you didn't think shraeye is a survivor. Why aren't you voting for ADK then?

Right now I think it's important to get rid of some Espheni, and I'm pretty sure ADK isn't that.

[Glooble]

Agreed, but that would still mean 3 non-town and 4 scum. Unless you think e's town? I suppose Galzria would know if he was a "threat to town"

Considering the power level of town that seems perfectly acceptable.

But they would rule the day, right? Especially since 2 of them are survivors, all you would need is a mislynch and a good NK and ADK's vig can seal the deal.

What? No. I expressedly don't think ADK or shraeye are Survivors.

You think ash lied to us on a flip? That would make this a bastard game.

[faust]

You think ash lied to us on a flip? That would make this a bastard game.

That was only a flavor role and it doesn't need to follow any standard conventions. Also the standard colour for Survivors is gray, not purple.

[faust]

You can check here that ash follows this colour scheme:

https://quicktopic.com/52/H/66TKWQuWASr8R

[faust]

Finally, is this how a survivor reacts to another survivor claim?

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

[MiX]

shraeye was a "Troubled Survivor", which doesn't have to be a "survivor". Otherwise what's Peacemaker? I have e's power that relates to that name, so I'm assuming flips are only for role and not win condition.

Finally, is this how a survivor reacts to another survivor claim?

Believable claim, that solves the third-party/no-third party situation.  Probably makes for a 4 person team, not sure why Mix is saying 4 person+Traitor.  Glooble? faust? joth?  People with experience balancing?

That's a good quote.

Okay, if they're partners they're definitely NOT trying to win with town, otherwise ADK would've shot Space. So that makes me want to kill ADK.

[MiX]

Okay, if they're partners they're definitely NOT trying to win with town, otherwise ADK would've shot Space. So that makes me want to kill ADK.

...But we need to focus on Espheni. I think one thing is clear: shraeye doesn't have a cop result on Space.

Unvote

[pingpongsam]

No item received last night. No headache and never have. Interested in hearing why shraeye was lying about a result; just to stave off the vig or redirect it?

[MiX]

No item received last night. No headache and never have. Interested in hearing why shraeye was lying about a result; just to stave off the vig or redirect it?

I assume he had a big scumread on Space (I still do) and thought it was ideal if they were lynched. He never tried to direct the vig, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Or maybe our ADK/shraeye theory's wrong and he did have a cop result on Space?

I recieved an item: do you want to ask vague questions to find out if it's the one you're after?

[faust]

Vote: DatSwan

[Glooble]

I don’t believe ash would make a role with “survivor” in its name, and then not give that role a win condition that involves surviving until the end of the game. “Troubled” probably implies something that Shraeye needed to accomplish in addition to that win con, but I do not think Shraeye can win now that he is dead. Ergo, I don’t see what reason he would have to lie about Space.

[MiX]

I don’t believe ash would make a role with “survivor” in its name, and then not give that role a win condition that involves surviving until the end of the game. “Troubled” probably implies something that Shraeye needed to accomplish in addition to that win con, but I do not think Shraeye can win now that he is dead. Ergo, I don’t see what reason he would have to lie about Space.

For all we know, maybe shraeye needed Space dead to win. I like the rest of your argument.

Vote: DatSwan

Swan and Didds really need to claim something, don't they...

[faust]

I don’t believe ash would make a role with “survivor” in its name, and then not give that role a win condition that involves surviving until the end of the game. “Troubled” probably implies something that Shraeye needed to accomplish in addition to that win con, but I do not think Shraeye can win now that he is dead. Ergo, I don’t see what reason he would have to lie about Space.

I don't see what reason he would have to tell the truth about Space. Plus, I don't see how from a flavor perspective it makes sense that Sara is a Cop, and neither do I see why a Survivor needs Cop powers.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space's claim, if true, basically says ADK is scum: can anyone see 9 town, 3 third-parties AND 4 scum? Because I can't. Yet Space didn't vote for ADK.

Really? I was claiming within 10 mins of getting out of bed, and I'm not a hasty voter at the best of times. I am not a morning person.

I also don't think it's that impossible for ADK to be what they claim to be. I'm more concerned about you not being as IC as other people think you are, since I know for sure that something fishy was up with Shraeye's claimed result on me.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don’t believe ash would make a role with “survivor” in its name, and then not give that role a win condition that involves surviving until the end of the game. “Troubled” probably implies something that Shraeye needed to accomplish in addition to that win con, but I do not think Shraeye can win now that he is dead. Ergo, I don’t see what reason he would have to lie about Space.

I don't see what reason he would have to tell the truth about Space. Plus, I don't see how from a flavor perspective it makes sense that Sara is a Cop, and neither do I see why a Survivor needs Cop powers.

It's possible Shraeye just scumread me and made a gamble about claiming cop. I get the impression that people who don't know me find me very scummy in general, and I think Shraeye and I have only played in one game before.

[MiX]

Were you always town with the same win condition? When did you have a headache? Do you still have it? Can you detail how you learned that there's no Espheni Queen? Why shouldn't we lynch you regardless?

To space, in case you missed it.

[Awaclus]

Even if you release a child every single night, living to the end of the game, that assumedly runs them out of NKs heading into Day 8 if my math is right. That is like planning... way the hell ahead assuming we get that far in the game without it ending given how far ahead we are right now.

It's likely the children can be used for other things as well.

[MiX]

Can anyone other than faust interact with the children?

[pingpongsam]

Can anyone other than faust interact with the children?

Not I.

[Awaclus]

Can anyone other than faust interact with the children?

Why is this useful for town to know?

[MiX]

Can anyone other than faust interact with the children?

Why is this useful for town to know?

If no one can then scum hss full power over them. How does this hurt town?

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning, friends!

Ya'll have been busy, but I think I am up to speed...

I only had the headache for D1.

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

I'm still trying to puzzle out Shraeye's result on Space. He chose his words carefully but he wasn't lying, that we are aware of, so I am not sure why he would lie about that result. I believe him. So, if she is EFHW's partner, how does that work with the claim she has provided?

[MiX]

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

Is that the night after D1? Has this flavour name been claimed?

[faust]

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

Did this happen to anyone else?

[Awaclus]

If no one can then scum hss full power over them.

Why do we care about that?

How does this hurt town?

Well gee, I wonder how massclaiming PRs in a thread that scum can see could possibly hurt town.

[faust]

I will say that my headache got worse as well. I think Didds's claim that she got a headache and it just went poof is hard to believe. I also think that the headaches comes from the Espheni though, and so if Didds know what the headaches are about why would she make up such a weird lie?

A lot of the stuff Didds is claiming seems for the sake of claiming only. Like, why didn't we hear about this kid interaction before? That might have been relevant when we were, you know, discussing my power to free the children.

[faust]

I want to Vote: Didds again but also I am not sure that's the right path. Maybe Didds is also shraeye's partner? But that starts to add up to quite a bunch of scum.

[MiX]

If no one can then scum hss full power over them.

Why do we care about that?

How does this hurt town?

Well gee, I wonder how massclaiming PRs in a thread that scum can see could possibly hurt town.

All I want is a simple yes or no...

It should help town PRs that interact with them.

PPE: I think Didds should answer my questions first.

[MiX]

Order of headaches: Space, Didds(?), faust, Eddie

Or is it Space, Didds/faust (same night), Eddie? That would mean Didds is in conflict with faust, in a way...

[WestCoastDidds]

Faust, when you said that you had released a kid, I asked you some questions to find out if you had sent him to me but you said you'd rather not comment. I took that to mean I should stop asking. I think my headache abating and me feeling better, as it were, had something to do with the conversation with the kid.

[WestCoastDidds]

Order of headaches: Space, Didds(?), faust, Eddie

Or is it Space, Didds/faust (same night), Eddie? That would mean Didds is in conflict with faust, in a way...

No, if there is a conflcit, it would be with Space

Space and I both on D1, she says hers got worse D2, mine went away
D2 faust headache,
D3 eddie headache, faust worse, Space worse

There could be someone else who had a headache on D2 that went away?

[Galzria]

vote: MiX

vote: space

[MiX]

vote: MiX

vote: space

Can you answer my question?

[Awaclus]

All I want is a simple yes or no...

It should help town PRs that interact with them.

Scum also wants a simple yes or no, and there is no guarantee that any town PRs are helped by this massclaim.

[WestCoastDidds]

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

Is that the night after D1? Has this flavour name been claimed?

This person has not said that this is their name, nor has anyone else said this was their name, nor as this person said they had any other name

[Galzria]

vote: MiX

vote: space

Can you answer my question?

I will not answer it, no.

[MiX]

Order of headaches: Space, Didds(?), faust, Eddie

Or is it Space, Didds/faust (same night), Eddie? That would mean Didds is in conflict with faust, in a way...

No, if there is a conflcit, it would be with Space

Space and I both on D1, she says hers got worse D2, mine went away
D2 faust headache,
D3 eddie headache, faust worse, Space worse

There could be someone else who had a headache on D2 that went away?

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

All I want is a simple yes or no...

It should help town PRs that interact with them.

Scum also wants a simple yes or no, and there is no guarantee that any town PRs are helped by this massclaim.

Do they...

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

Is that the night after D1? Has this flavour name been claimed?

This person has not said that this is their name, nor has anyone else said this was their name, nor as this person said they had any other name

It told you a specific someone's flavor role? Can you say whose role you saw?

vote: MiX

vote: space

Can you answer my question?

I will not answer it, no.

That's really annoying, I would learn a thing. Do you not trust me?

[faust]

As far as interacting with the kids, a kid came to me on N1, asked for his mother (?!), and asked me questions. He also told me one person's flavor name, which I have not disclosed.

Is that the night after D1? Has this flavour name been claimed?

This person has not said that this is their name, nor has anyone else said this was their name, nor as this person said they had any other name

You know it's their real flavor and not a fakeclaim? Is it a good or bad flavor?

[Awaclus]

Do they...

Yes.

[faust]

I agree with Awaclus.

[SpaceAnemone]

Were you always town with the same win condition? When did you have a headache? Do you still have it? Can you detail how you learned that there's no Espheni Queen? Why shouldn't we lynch you regardless?

To space, in case you missed it.

My role in my QT was only stated once, and it's fixed. I double-checked with Ash that becoming a Skitter wouldn't change it, just to be extra-sure, before I considered whether I wanted to use the power.

I had a headache at the very start of D1, and it escalated at the start of D2 and again at the start of today, meaning headaches are possible for skitters too.

I got to pick a name from the series to ask about, and I picked the Espheni Queen. The power wasn't useful for clearing any players, because all it told me was that a name was in use either as a real character or a fake claim, so I figured the best use of it was to look for a powerful baddie and see whether there's likely to be a role based around that. It would probably have helped if I'd known more of the flavour, but between the falling skies wiki entries and earlier Espheni role discussions in here, the Queen seemed to be a good one to ask about.

As for lynching me regardless, it's bad primarily because it takes away town's chance for the day of lynching scum.

PPE 4

[MiX]

Good answer.

No queen = I'm town right? Whatever I'm taking the secondary IC title now that joth died.

I think we should lynch Didds or Swan...or Space, but I trust them now. VCA also points to these 3, so no help there.

We could use some honesty from ADK, that would be cool.

Headache/kid visiting sound like good leads now, and shraeye's flip's also useful.

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, if they're partners they're definitely NOT trying to win with town, otherwise ADK would've shot Space. So that makes me want to kill ADK.

...But we need to focus on Espheni. I think one thing is clear: shraeye doesn't have a cop result on Space.

Unvote

How is this clear?

[SpaceAnemone]

Whatever I'm taking the secondary IC title now that joth died.

It's statements like this that make me not want to trust you at all.

You've been pushing to be considered IC all game, and you can hide behind the "don't call me on my hyperbole, it's just a joke" routine, but in the end, you're still deceiving town for personal gain.. it's just unclear whether the gain you're going for is personal glory or overall town good.

I'm also not keen on you pushing lines like "do this because of VCA" without posting clear cases based around that VCA. When I asked you about specifics that you claimed incriminate me, you weren't even able to point to particular votes or analysis.

Lastly, I know for a fact that there's something screwy going on with cop-style results (if Shraeye even had a cop thing to begin with), and a cop-style result is all we have to go on to say you're town anyway.

So I'm very tempted to un-green you from my own analysis, though to be safe, I'd probably still rather lynch another possible Espheni over you.

[faust]

Space - request to answer this question:

Why did you delay becoming a skitter and didn't do it during N1?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Good answer.

No queen = I'm town right? Whatever I'm taking the secondary IC title now that joth died.

I think we should lynch Didds or Swan...or Space, but I trust them now. VCA also points to these 3, so no help there.

We could use some honesty from ADK, that would be cool.

Headache/kid visiting sound like good leads now, and shraeye's flip's also useful.

I've been honest since yesterday. I had no idea there were any other survivors in the game.

[Swowl]

Good answer.

No queen = I'm town right? Whatever I'm taking the secondary IC title now that joth died.

I think we should lynch Didds or Swan...or Space, but I trust them now. VCA also points to these 3, so no help there.

We could use some honesty from ADK, that would be cool.

Headache/kid visiting sound like good leads now, and shraeye's flip's also useful.

this is a strange grouping of players for you to limit things to.
why not awaclus?
(followed by)
why not glooble?

[Swowl]

I don’t believe ash would make a role with “survivor” in its name, and then not give that role a win condition that involves surviving until the end of the game. “Troubled” probably implies something that Shraeye needed to accomplish in addition to that win con, but I do not think Shraeye can win now that he is dead. Ergo, I don’t see what reason he would have to lie about Space.

I had not thought of the alternate win con angle, but the concept of "no reason to lie" is what is stuck in my head.

Unless Shraeye's win con was met on a Space death, that would be a pretty ballzy claim to risk if Space were then to flip over Town.

Also, Space's new info regarding "no queen in the game" and how many espheni are remaining would be very easily in the realm of fake claim material from skum.

They have already started throwing around the whole "if results were messed with" concept. We have 2 people with the head aches from that day, but only 1 from day 2 and 1 from today.... that could be them trying to derail us into thinking that the headaches (as it supposedly turned them into a skitter) could mess with results.

There is just so much on the list from Space, and that is what I am going with today.

Outside of that I am gonna look into ADK and PPS some more.

Vote: Space

[Galzria]

A) Shraeye was a Survivor.
B) We have no proof that ADK is as well, however I believe him.
C) e was also essentially town.
D) There are multiple “non-town” factions that are not “anti-town”.
E) pubby’s flavor text is likely yellow, and that’s completely ok.
F) Shraeye wasn’t lying.
F.1) There’s no benefit to him continuing the charade after he was lynched.
F.2) His anger and indignation wasn’t faked. He was genuinely upset that we “lynched the cop”
F.3) That’s the worst possible fake claim for him to make, as it buys him at most a day if he’s wrong.
F.4) His play throughout D2 is consistent with him having a scum result that he didn’t want to share. He would’ve made himself a target of scum N2.
G) Faust was Joth’s #1 scum read, and I’m supportive of this read. That’s two IC’s that believe Faust is scum.
H) MiX is likely scum. He claimed something yesterday and then contradicted that claim today.
H.1) I don’t know why the result I got on him was “same wincon”, but there are multiple possibilities.
I) I suspect there may be yet another “not green text” “town” faction. That’s part of this setup. Many smaller “town” factions that result in false investigative results.
I.1) This does not apply to Space & Shraeye’s result, as Shraeye was a Survivor, and he was very clear on exactly Space being EFHW’s partner. Not green text, or yellow text, or purple text - but red text.
I.2) Space has claimed very clearly green text, even after being given the option to do otherwise.

[MiX]

A) Shraeye was a Survivor.
B) We have no proof that ADK is as well, however I believe him.
C) e was also essentially town.
D) There are multiple “non-town” factions that are not “anti-town”.
E) pubby’s flavor text is likely yellow, and that’s completely ok.
F) Shraeye wasn’t lying.
F.1) There’s no benefit to him continuing the charade after he was lynched.
F.2) His anger and indignation wasn’t faked. He was genuinely upset that we “lynched the cop”
F.3) That’s the worst possible fake claim for him to make, as it buys him at most a day if he’s wrong.
F.4) His play throughout D2 is consistent with him having a scum result that he didn’t want to share. He would’ve made himself a target of scum N2.
G) Faust was Joth’s #1 scum read, and I’m supportive of this read. That’s two IC’s that believe Faust is scum.
H) MiX is likely scum. He claimed something yesterday and then contradicted that claim today.
H.1) I don’t know why the result I got on him was “same wincon”, but there are multiple possibilities.
I) I suspect there may be yet another “not green text” “town” faction. That’s part of this setup. Many smaller “town” factions that result in false investigative results.
I.1) This does not apply to Space & Shraeye’s result, as Shraeye was a Survivor, and he was very clear on exactly Space being EFHW’s partner. Not green text, or yellow text, or purple text - but red text.
I.2) Space has claimed very clearly green text, even after being given the option to do otherwise.

For H), wouldn't scum be more consistent? Also I have literally no idea what you're talking about, maybe I didn't go over the restrictions I had day 2? Why would I?

G) is fair. Doesn't make him scummier, but it does make his non-doctoring of joth scummy.

[MiX]

Right now I'm waiting for Space's answer to faust's swap-to-skitter question and Didds' answer to questions related to the child visit.

Anything else we should do? I have something to claim but I want these questions answered first...

[Galzria]

A) Shraeye was a Survivor.
B) We have no proof that ADK is as well, however I believe him.
C) e was also essentially town.
D) There are multiple “non-town” factions that are not “anti-town”.
E) pubby’s flavor text is likely yellow, and that’s completely ok.
F) Shraeye wasn’t lying.
F.1) There’s no benefit to him continuing the charade after he was lynched.
F.2) His anger and indignation wasn’t faked. He was genuinely upset that we “lynched the cop”
F.3) That’s the worst possible fake claim for him to make, as it buys him at most a day if he’s wrong.
F.4) His play throughout D2 is consistent with him having a scum result that he didn’t want to share. He would’ve made himself a target of scum N2.
G) Faust was Joth’s #1 scum read, and I’m supportive of this read. That’s two IC’s that believe Faust is scum.
H) MiX is likely scum. He claimed something yesterday and then contradicted that claim today.
H.1) I don’t know why the result I got on him was “same wincon”, but there are multiple possibilities.
I) I suspect there may be yet another “not green text” “town” faction. That’s part of this setup. Many smaller “town” factions that result in false investigative results.
I.1) This does not apply to Space & Shraeye’s result, as Shraeye was a Survivor, and he was very clear on exactly Space being EFHW’s partner. Not green text, or yellow text, or purple text - but red text.
I.2) Space has claimed very clearly green text, even after being given the option to do otherwise.

For H), wouldn't scum be more consistent? Also I have literally no idea what you're talking about, maybe I didn't go over the restrictions I had day 2? Why would I?

G) is fair. Doesn't make him scummier, but it does make his non-doctoring of joth scummy.

Your inconsistency was an oversight most likely.

[MiX]

Your inconsistency was an oversight most likely.

If it's a scumslip, would you care to show it?

[MiX]

Ah... I forgot I needed to ICify myself!

No as in I literally forgot and now the plan's in complete shambles. I apologize to everyone for this failure, but I had decisions, and for some reason I didn't pick the ICify. The reason was good, but not when I made a promise.

Was this it?

[Galzria]

Your inconsistency was an oversight most likely.

If it's a scumslip, would you care to show it?

I’m not completely convinced of it, and there’s better lynches than you.

[Galzria]

Ah... I forgot I needed to ICify myself!

No as in I literally forgot and now the plan's in complete shambles. I apologize to everyone for this failure, but I had decisions, and for some reason I didn't pick the ICify. The reason was good, but not when I made a promise.

Was this it?

No.

[pubby]

Vote: Space

[Galzria]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

[Galzria]

Vote: Space

Care to make an honest claim about your flavor text color?

[MiX]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

[pubby]

Vote: Space

Care to make an honest claim about your flavor text color?

I kinda like the attention and mystery that comes from my current position but I am a regular shade of green.

[MiX]

Vote: Space

Care to make an honest claim about your flavor text color?

I kinda like the attention and mystery that comes from my current position but I am a regular shade of green.

You have by far the coolest alignment: Green-but-not-100%-town. It's pretty unique.

Do you have any hunches about who else is an ally, and if you do would you consider them towny/town? Not asking who, just if they exist.

[pubby]

I'm 100% town and I never said otherwise.

I have a pretty good idea about the other allies and they are town too.

[MiX]

I'm 100% town and I never said otherwise.

I have a pretty good idea about the other allies and they are town too.

Is "how many" too much to share, and if so, why? I too want these incredible town reads.

[Galzria]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

You can claim both.

Do you not have e’s power (just know what it is)?

[Swowl]

A) Shraeye was a Survivor.
B) We have no proof that ADK is as well, however I believe him.
C) e was also essentially town.
D) There are multiple “non-town” factions that are not “anti-town”.
E) pubby’s flavor text is likely yellow, and that’s completely ok.
F) Shraeye wasn’t lying.
F.1) There’s no benefit to him continuing the charade after he was lynched.
F.2) His anger and indignation wasn’t faked. He was genuinely upset that we “lynched the cop”
F.3) That’s the worst possible fake claim for him to make, as it buys him at most a day if he’s wrong.
F.4) His play throughout D2 is consistent with him having a scum result that he didn’t want to share. He would’ve made himself a target of scum N2.
G) Faust was Joth’s #1 scum read, and I’m supportive of this read. That’s two IC’s that believe Faust is scum.
H) MiX is likely scum. He claimed something yesterday and then contradicted that claim today.
H.1) I don’t know why the result I got on him was “same wincon”, but there are multiple possibilities.
I) I suspect there may be yet another “not green text” “town” faction. That’s part of this setup. Many smaller “town” factions that result in false investigative results.
I.1) This does not apply to Space & Shraeye’s result, as Shraeye was a Survivor, and he was very clear on exactly Space being EFHW’s partner. Not green text, or yellow text, or purple text - but red text.
I.2) Space has claimed very clearly green text, even after being given the option to do otherwise.

I agree with almost all of this:

- All the faction stuff I essentially agree with

E) IDK 100% where I stand on pubby, but agree with the yellow text thought.

F) Shraeye had no reason to lie, the upside does not match the downside (as I already mentioned).

H) MiX contradiction.. I think I know what you are referencing, and I agree there is a possibility that MiX is skum.

F) Space is probably skum, I agree.

*then there is a gap*

Faust) Day 1 makes me feel skummy on him. The fact that he "released a child last night" actually makes me feel slightly less so the more I think about it. If he were skum, it would of caused much more confusion to say he also doctored Galz (once we all woke up to an alive Galz), and then send us spinning on why 2 more kids are gone if that is true. Skum lean here.

E) Like 90% most likely town. But it is possible yellow text has a non-town win con.

*then there is a gap*

ADK) I disagree. There was bound to be something. Regardless, I believe ADK to be Traitor/Mafia/SK at this point. If they are Town, they wouldn't of claimed Survivor. If they are SK, a Survivor claim at the time would be moderately safe as they would know they are 1 faction, then there is a town faction, then there is a skum faction, then E flipped a different faction, and there is the skitter faction... to assume all of that, plus SK (but no survivor), would of been a good claim at the time. If they are traitor, having a day vig seems like a good balancing mechanic for skum. And then there is the possibility that they are just mafia, but not the player with the day vig... this is to say they claim survivor (more ballzy than the SK version, but still possible based on factions and potential skum info), then they post the kill command in the thread (which does nothing), then the REAL day vig posts the command in the skum thread. I agree with whoever said that we should focus on finding the mafia faction today, so ADK is def not my choice... but I also am no where near believing they have a town win con.


lol PPE 10

[Swowl]

i guess note the edit on pubby from my ppe (green text). I would of assumed yellow. doesn't change anything really right now opinion wise. just a note.

[MiX]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

You can claim both.

Do you not have e’s power (just know what it is)?

E's power is <a cool name>: One-shot, use it to cancel all other powers (including scum NK), can't be RBd. Sounds good right? So good, in fact, balance dictates I can't use it. Such is life.

Joth's power is...I mean do you really need to know it? It's your cop ability. It has two things and the regain-a-shot ability you know and love, I just don't know one thing: can you pick which of the two you recieve? Do I need to say more than this?

PPE Swan: Since when there's a "skitter faction"?

[Galzria]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

You can claim both.

Do you not have e’s power (just know what it is)?

E's power is <a cool name>: One-shot, use it to cancel all other powers (including scum NK), can't be RBd. Sounds good right? So good, in fact, balance dictates I can't use it. Such is life.

Joth's power is...I mean do you really need to know it? It's your cop ability. It has two things and the regain-a-shot ability you know and love, I just don't know one thing: can you pick which of the two you recieve? Do I need to say more than this?

PPE Swan: Since when there's a "skitter faction"?

Joth’s Shot was not refilled

[MiX]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

You can claim both.

Do you not have e’s power (just know what it is)?

E's power is <a cool name>: One-shot, use it to cancel all other powers (including scum NK), can't be RBd. Sounds good right? So good, in fact, balance dictates I can't use it. Such is life.

Joth's power is...I mean do you really need to know it? It's your cop ability. It has two things and the regain-a-shot ability you know and love, I just don't know one thing: can you pick which of the two you recieve? Do I need to say more than this?

PPE Swan: Since when there's a "skitter faction"?

Joth’s Shot was not refilled

Fascinating.

Vote: Space

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Spacewho I've been suspicious of all game because I have a special scumdar for them.

[MiX]

Unvote, what's the vote count?

[MiX]

Space (7): Glooble, ADK, Galzria, Swan, pubby, MiX, pps
Swan (1): faust

Not Voting (4): Awaclus, WCD, Space, Uncleeurope


Good job hammering.

Vote: pps

[pubby]

I'm 100% town and I never said otherwise.

I have a pretty good idea about the other allies and they are town too.

Is "how many" too much to share, and if so, why? I too want these incredible town reads.

I don't think it's good to reveal town unless they're about to get lynched.

I don't even think I should have said anything myself. It improves scum's NKs more than it helps town.

[MiX]

If that was the hammer, I fully expect Space and Didds' answers before night or they're scum (at least Space would be, I know they're usually awake at this time).

Otherwise good job making me panic pps.

[pingpongsam]

yeah, i had no idea what the count was. I just got out of the gym and was sitting at a table waiting on food on mobile and saw that the idea that space was not scum had been dispelled and put my vote where I had intended all along except for some confusion earlier that they somehow weren't scum. Nobody gave an L-1 notice.

[pingpongsam]

Normally I'd give an intent to hammer. It didn't cross my mind that we were so close, though.

[Swowl]

MiX, what was e’s power?
What power of Joth’s do you have?

What's the most powerful ability a "Peacemaker" can have? That.

Do you want me to softclaim it or just outright say it? This works for both questions.

You can claim both.

Do you not have e’s power (just know what it is)?

E's power is <a cool name>: One-shot, use it to cancel all other powers (including scum NK), can't be RBd. Sounds good right? So good, in fact, balance dictates I can't use it. Such is life.

Joth's power is...I mean do you really need to know it? It's your cop ability. It has two things and the regain-a-shot ability you know and love, I just don't know one thing: can you pick which of the two you recieve? Do I need to say more than this?

PPE Swan: Since when there's a "skitter faction"?

You claimed paint face - glooble claimed red eye - i assume that means there is a skitter faction similar to how there seems to be the “yellow text” ally faction, town faction, and skum faction. And you know survivor faction

[Swowl]

Wait was that actually hammer?

[pingpongsam]

Wait was that actually hammer?

i haven't gone back to check but i see no reason to disbelieve mix about it.

[Glooble]

You claimed paint face - glooble claimed red eye - i assume that means there is a skitter faction similar to how there seems to be the “yellow text” ally faction, town faction, and skum faction. And you know survivor faction

My text is green.

[WestCoastDidds]

Whoa! Was that really the hammer? No L-1, MiX? Dude...

What is the question your waiting for me on? I just got home from work so I’m a bit scattered, but if that was the hammer? I don’t know what kind of time I have to read back before kids/dinner/etc.

[ashersky]

D3 Final Vote Count:

Space (7): Glooble, ADK, Galzria, Datswan, pubby, MiX, PPS
Datswan (1): faust

Not Voting (4): Awaclus, WCD, Space, Uncleeurope

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch

Twilight begins now.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay...a second to breathe.

MiX, this is the question I see from you:
It told you a specific someone's flavor role? Can you say whose role you saw? And then faust asked if I knew if it was a fake claim or  not.

The kid told me someone's name, not their role. I think, based on the wiki, that is a goodie. I don’t know if it is fake or not. I have no idea how reliable the kid is or how they came by the information. He told me some stuff and asked questions. It was a single message exchange, not a back and forth.

PPE: Ash

[ashersky]

Some days feel longer than a year, others shorter than a moment.  It seemed like the sun had barely risen when the discussion got out of hand.  Trust is so hard to come by, and if it was never there to begin with, you'll never find it.

Too many dead already, so many more to come.  All because of some nightmare out of a sci-fi movie.  Of all the trillion trillion planets in the sky, they chose ours.

We took out another of our crew, thinking they were evil.  Standing over them, unmoving on the ground, soemthing crawled out of their eyes...worms!

SpaceAnemone has been lynched!  They were Jeanne Weaver, a Skitterized Curious Daughter.

Night 3 begins now!

[ashersky]

The sun, bright and hot, rises again.  For most of us, that means another day to worry, another day to fear.

When will this nightmare end?  When will we finally defeat our invaders and take back our planet?  When can we finally start to truly grieve for our losses?  Not yet.

The kids are the symbol of our despair.  Our collective human future, harnessed by evil invaders.  We look over and see that hope remains: another freed from his harness and running away.  And still, hopelessness prevails: another dead on the ground.  Just six left now.

MiX has been killed in the night!  He was Paint Face, the Rebel Skitter Back-Up Leader.

Glooble has been killed in the night!  He was Red Eye, the Rebel Skitter Leader.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (9): faust, Awaclus, Galzria, WCD, PPS, Datswan, ADK, Uncleeurope, pubby

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[Swowl]

So another free and kid and another dead kid  - but 2 deaths. There goes my Kids use the NK theory...

[Swowl]

Maybe not?
Their deaths could of been connected - like if one died the other does too?

I’ll wait for Galz to ask ... but Faust did you release again last night?

[faust]

I’ll wait for Galz to ask ... but Faust did you release again last night?

Yes.

[faust]

If Awaclus is town, then today is MyLo. So... massclaim?

[Swowl]

If Awaclus is town, then today is MyLo. So... massclaim?

I have 3 nights worth of results that literally mean nothing to me alone.

I was gonna claim at the end of day yesterday, but then the Space lynch went through so quickly.

Given the current game state I had planned on claiming fairly early today, but I will wait on the opinion of the mass claim idea before saying anything.

[faust]

Vote: DatSwan

[A Drowned Kernel]

If Awaclus is town, then today is MyLo. So... massclaim?

We could lynch awaclus

[Awaclus]

If Awaclus is town, then today is MyLo. So... massclaim?

We could lynch awaclus

We can't lynch Awaclus.

[WestCoastDidds]

I love when Awaclus talks about Awaclus in the third person.

[Awaclus]

How do we know today is MyLo?

[pubby]

Space said something about there being 4 scum (with 1 dead).

[WestCoastDidds]

I still don’t get that math...can someone explain it simply for the kids in back?

[pubby]

Tomorrow 3 scum + 1 survivor can force a lynch on hated Awaclus and then presumably win.

[pubby]

(assuming Awaclus is town)

[faust]

If Awaclus is town, then today is MyLo. So... massclaim?

We could lynch awaclus

There is no "we" that includes you.

[Awaclus]

Tomorrow 3 scum + 1 survivor can force a lynch on hated Awaclus and then presumably win.

Well, that only happens if town tries to lynch me today.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he's scum

[faust]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he'sI'm scum

FTFY

[Galzria]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he'sI'm scum

FTFY

I can work with that.

[Galzria]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he'sI'm scum

FTFY

I can work with that.

vote: ADK

[faust]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he'sI'm scum

FTFY

I can work with that.

vote: ADK

Ah right, a quick knee jerk vote by the IC. Because of how well that turned out last time.

[faust]

Please unvote, this is terrible and potentially game-losing.

[Galzria]

For some reason I thought space said there was there ephensi total, not three remaining

If that's true, I would have expected them to come forward asking me to lynch awaclus with them; the fact that they haven't suggests that he'sI'm scum

FTFY

I can work with that.

vote: ADK

Ah right, a quick knee jerk vote by the IC. Because of how well that turned out last time.

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

[Galzria]

Please unvote, this is terrible and potentially game-losing.

Don’t think I will.

[Awaclus]

Vote: ADK

[A Drowned Kernel]

Please unvote, this is terrible and potentially game-losing.

...do you think I'm scum or not?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Galz, could I interest you in a vote: faust?

[Galzria]

Galz, could I interest you in a vote: faust?

It is enticing.

[Swowl]

Vote: Awaclus

[Galzria]

Vote: Awaclus

Meh.

[Swowl]

Vote: Awaclus

Meh.

I mean i could go Awaclus Faust or WCD.
ADK is a tomorrow choice i think. In case not mafia.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.1:

Datswan (1): faust
ADK (2): Galzria, Awaclus
faust (1): ADK
Awaclus (1): Datswan

Not Voting (4): WCD, PPS, Uncleeurope, pubby

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 3 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[Swowl]

PPS on there too- but again would prefer not today

[Uncleeurope]

Can we have everyone claim, please?

[Galzria]

Can we have everyone claim, please?

I agree.

Faust should start. Then Swan. Then WCD. Then Pubby. Then everybody with partial claims.

[Awaclus]

I don't have anything against massclaiming.

[pubby]

faust, claim.

[Swowl]

Please and thank you’s sir pubby.
We are not heathens.

[Swowl]

*meant as a joke*

[Galzria]

Please and thank you’s sir pubby.
We are not heathens.

Did he stutter?

[WestCoastDidds]

Semester starts tomorrow. I’ll be around but maybe not so timely, but I’ll keep an eye out for when I’m supposed to go.

In the meantime vote: faust unless some things become more clear.

[Galzria]

Semester starts tomorrow. I’ll be around but maybe not so timely, but I’ll keep an eye out for when I’m supposed to go.

In the meantime vote: faust unless some things become more clear.

Did you leave him alive last night to mislynch today, or because he’s your partner (and thus no threat of a quick mislynch exists here)?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: WCD

[Swowl]

Actually i could with

Vote: WCD

[Uncleeurope]

Unvote

[Swowl]

Unvote

Because i am squint worthy?

[Galzria]

Unvote

Because i am squint worthy?

The squintiest

[Uncleeurope]

No one dies till everyone claims.

And no one will die if no one has votes.

[Swowl]

No one dies till everyone claims.

And no one will die if no one has votes.

Then why did you vote?

[Uncleeurope]

For funsies.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.2:

Datswan (1): faust
ADK (2): Galzria, Awaclus
faust (2): ADK, WCD
WCD (1): Datswan

Not Voting (3): PPS, Uncleeurope, pubby

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[Swowl]

Can we have everyone claim, please?

I agree.

Faust should start. Then Swan. Then WCD. Then Pubby. Then everybody with partial claims.

You should order this in more detail.

[faust]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

[faust]

I have already claimed, so I'm not sure what people want out of this. Here's some additional tidbits though:
- I still have a headache. It's pretty bad at this point. Like something is inside my head waiting to make its way out.
- Someone targeted me during N2. I got a message saying this. I have no further information about who or with what, and my best guess is some kind of manipulative role.

[Galzria]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

[Galzria]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

Sorry, such Pro-Town* play.

[Galzria]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

Sorry, such Pro-Town* play.

 

[faust]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

Sorry, such Pro-Town* play.

I know, right? Unfortunately scum realized that keeping you alive serves their purposes better.

[Galzria]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

Sorry, such Pro-Town* play.

I know, right? Unfortunately scum realized that keeping you alive serves their purposes better.

Alternatively, you know, you have no proof that you can do literally anything you’ve claimed except “set them free”... which does what exactly? Oh right. You don’t know.

Meanwhile the only scum lynch to date, EFHW, was fought against hardest by... wait, who was it? Oh right. You.

[Swowl]

So is that a claim - like am i up?

[pubby]

Yeah you should claim.

[Galzria]

*yawn*

It was the correct vote last time.

How I hoped you'd die.

Which is why you didn’t Doctor an IC again, right? Such pro play.

Sorry, such Pro-Town* play.

I know, right? Unfortunately scum realized that keeping you alive serves their purposes better.

Alternatively, you know, you have no proof that you can do literally anything you’ve claimed except “set them free”... which does what exactly? Oh right. You don’t know.

Meanwhile the only scum lynch to date, EFHW, was fought against hardest by... wait, who was it? Oh right. You.

In all seriousness:

We have a claimed Doctor who, with 3 IC’s, has doctored 0 times.

[Galzria]

Yeah you should claim.

[Awaclus]

Unvote

[Swowl]

Yeah you should claim.

Lol thank you for your input pubby

[Awaclus]

Yeah you should claim.

Lol thank you for your input pubby

Yeah you should claim.

[faust]

We have a claimed Doctor who, with 3 IC’s, has doctored 0 times.

I could have easily claimed to have targeted you tonight if I wanted to. And if you look at the flavor, it's pretty damn clear that children being freed is a good thing. So swallow your fucking bias and start looking at the facts, or lose this game.

[faust]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, Faust, it’s worth considering that there might be a passive freeing mechanism goin in here that scum know about. Plus there’s the fact you haven’t been doctoring for whatever reason.

[Uncleeurope]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

[Galzria]

We have a claimed Doctor who, with 3 IC’s, has doctored 0 times.

I could have easily claimed to have targeted you tonight if I wanted to. And if you look at the flavor, it's pretty damn clear that children being freed is a good thing. So swallow your fucking bias and start looking at the facts, or lose this game.

*yawn* more personal attacks. That’s really your best defense? “I would’ve done differently as scum”?

Mhmm. Good note.

[Swowl]

Yeah you should claim.

Lol thank you for your input pubby

Yeah you should claim.

Are you still in this game?

[Galzria]

We have a claimed Doctor who, with 3 IC’s, has doctored 0 times.

I could have easily claimed to have targeted you tonight if I wanted to. And if you look at the flavor, it's pretty damn clear that children being freed is a good thing. So swallow your fucking bias and start looking at the facts, or lose this game.

Also... no, you couldn’t. Not after another child was set free. In fact, you never claimed anything for last night because it was already obvious you hadn’t “doctored”.

[Swowl]

Yeah you should claim.

Lol thank you for your input pubby

Yeah you should claim.

Are you still in this game?

Another joke - no offense intended.

Im deciding if i am going to or not gimme a few minutes. Just got back from bowling League.

[Swowl]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

stop asking questions please.

[Swowl]

faust why me specifically?

[faust]

We have a claimed Doctor who, with 3 IC’s, has doctored 0 times.

I could have easily claimed to have targeted you tonight if I wanted to. And if you look at the flavor, it's pretty damn clear that children being freed is a good thing. So swallow your fucking bias and start looking at the facts, or lose this game.

Also... no, you couldn’t. Not after another child was set free. In fact, you never claimed anything for last night because it was already obvious you hadn’t “doctored”.

I’ll wait for Galz to ask ... but Faust did you release again last night?

Yes.

[faust]

faust why me specifically?

PoE

[faust]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

I think we may hand scum the information they need to win the game. I also think we have sufficient data available to get a good lynch.

[Uncleeurope]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

stop asking questions please.

*Gasp* Rude.

[faust]

That’s really your best defense? “I would’ve done differently as scum”?

There's literally nothing else people can say to defend themselves.

There is also the fact that I have this headache, which is confirmed by Space to be a thing, and is likely something inflicted by scum.

[Swowl]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

sorry, nothing but love eddie. was quick posting from phone.


stop asking questions please.

*Gasp* Rude.

[faust]

Well, Faust, it’s worth considering that there might be a passive freeing mechanism goin in here that scum know about. Plus there’s the fact you haven’t been doctoring for whatever reason.

Well sure, but that's a massive stretch. I'm sorry that I feel reluctant to Doctor someone if all it accomplishes is to make a mislynch more likely when I could be doing something else instead. I might have felt compelled to doctor joth/Galzria if they hadn't pushed for my lynch all game.

[Swowl]

I personally am starting to have doubts about the benefit of massclaiming here actually. But my guess is Galzria will ignore this. Still, DatSwan, it's not like scum is going to heed my advice but I think you should not claim.

Are you able to safely elaborate on this?

sorry, nothing but love eddie. was quick posting from phone.


stop asking questions please.

*Gasp* Rude.

fail -
sorry, nothing but love eddie. was quick posting from phone.

[Uncleeurope]

I wonder if doctors heal headaches.

[Swowl]

I wonder if doctors heal headaches.

follow up - does anyone else have a new head ache?

[Galzria]

Well, Faust, it’s worth considering that there might be a passive freeing mechanism goin in here that scum know about. Plus there’s the fact you haven’t been doctoring for whatever reason.

Well sure, but that's a massive stretch. I'm sorry that I feel reluctant to Doctor someone if all it accomplishes is to make a mislynch more likely when I could be doing something else instead. I might have felt compelled to doctor joth/Galzria if they hadn't pushed for my lynch all game.

So you would rather be petulant than potentially helpful?

[Swowl]

I will ultimately be obliged to do what the only remaining IC wants me to do.

Without any further explanation at this point - Faust is onto the right idea, but I do NOT have any game breaking data. However, it would be absolutely better if I do not claim. Kind of the reason I have been ignoring the random pokes and prods from players thus far.

I can start with this.

Galz - you got something from me last night. That buys me like 0% cred because I know what you received. I would really really really really really like to not claim if possible.

[Galzria]

That’s really your best defense? “I would’ve done differently as scum”?

There's literally nothing else people can say to defend themselves.

Awaclus, how do you feel about this statement?

[Galzria]

I will ultimately be obliged to do what the only remaining IC wants me to do.

Without any further explanation at this point - Faust is onto the right idea, but I do NOT have any game breaking data. However, it would be absolutely better if I do not claim. Kind of the reason I have been ignoring the random pokes and prods from players thus far.

I can start with this.

Galz - you got something from me last night. That buys me like 0% cred because I know what you received. I would really really really really really like to not claim if possible.

Did I?

[Swowl]

or if I could possibly half ish claim. or something.

If I full claim out it is bad. I see no way around the bad, and I have done pretty much nothing but think about it for 3 game days.

[Swowl]

I will ultimately be obliged to do what the only remaining IC wants me to do.

Without any further explanation at this point - Faust is onto the right idea, but I do NOT have any game breaking data. However, it would be absolutely better if I do not claim. Kind of the reason I have been ignoring the random pokes and prods from players thus far.

I can start with this.

Galz - you got something from me last night. That buys me like 0% cred because I know what you received. I would really really really really really like to not claim if possible.

Did I?

I mean I have a mod confirmation that you did so I assume you did.

[Galzria]

Headache’s do what exactly? So far as we know... absolutely nothing? Useful.

[faust]

Well, Faust, it’s worth considering that there might be a passive freeing mechanism goin in here that scum know about. Plus there’s the fact you haven’t been doctoring for whatever reason.

Well sure, but that's a massive stretch. I'm sorry that I feel reluctant to Doctor someone if all it accomplishes is to make a mislynch more likely when I could be doing something else instead. I might have felt compelled to doctor joth/Galzria if they hadn't pushed for my lynch all game.

So you would rather be petulant than potentially helpful?

No, and I don't see how you infer this from my post.

[faust]

I wonder if doctors heal headaches.

At least nothing in my role suggests that.

[faust]

Headache’s do what exactly? So far as we know... absolutely nothing? Useful.

They're a mechanic that is confirmed to be in the game. Do you think ashersky would put them in if they did nothing?

[Swowl]

Headache’s do what exactly? So far as we know... absolutely nothing? Useful.

you are assuming that the thing that multiple players have said to have in the game does... nothing?

like I get your point that we have no data on them... but, I can't bring myself to assume they are irrelevant.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

[faust]

It's also worth noting that my last name is Mason-Glass. There is a possibility that I am the potential third Mason. I didn't really think so and don't quite now, but some things about Eddie, the other prime candidate for that spot, make me doubtful.

[Galzria]

Well, Faust, it’s worth considering that there might be a passive freeing mechanism goin in here that scum know about. Plus there’s the fact you haven’t been doctoring for whatever reason.

Well sure, but that's a massive stretch. I'm sorry that I feel reluctant to Doctor someone if all it accomplishes is to make a mislynch more likely when I could be doing something else instead. I might have felt compelled to doctor joth/Galzria if they hadn't pushed for my lynch all game.

So you would rather be petulant than potentially helpful?

No, and I don't see how you infer this from my post.

“I might have felt compelled to Doctor an IC if they hadn’t pushed for my lynch all game.”

Boo-freaking-hoo bro. Get over yourself. You were hands down the scummiest person off the EFHW wagon and almost literally the only person to put any real effort into derailing it. And yet we STILL pursued other lynches over yours first, despite the fact that we both thought you were scum. You’re still alive, and many others are not. So get off your high horse and stop acting like you’re the only person in this game we’ve suspected.

The “facts” are that you, a claimed Doctor, have protected and have attempted to protect zero confirmed IC’s because, what, your feelings were hurt?

[faust]

The “facts” are that you, a claimed Doctor, have protected and have attempted to protect zero confirmed IC’s because, what, your feelings were hurt?

No, because it was likely to lead to a mislynch. Mislynches are bad for town, you know.

[Swowl]

Vote: Didds

from my pov this is the way to go (plus Awaclus, I can't decide). unless Eddie, ADK, Faust, PPS contain all three skum, there is at least one skum that was on wagon day 1. if we lynch on wagon today, even if we are wrong, we force skums NK option at night (assuming that all skum was not off wagon).

TLDR - we can literally force skum to create a better poe for us by lynching an on wagon player today.

[faust]

Boo-freaking-hoo bro. Get over yourself. You were hands down the scummiest person off the EFHW wagon and almost literally the only person to put any real effort into derailing it. And yet we STILL pursued other lynches over yours first, despite the fact that we both thought you were scum. You’re still alive, and many others are not. So get off your high horse and stop acting like you’re the only person in this game we’ve suspected.

So your theory is that I was throwing everything at stopping an EFHW lynch... while my two partners were pushing it?

[Swowl]

Vote: Didds

from my pov this is the way to go (plus Awaclus, I can't decide). unless Eddie, ADK, Faust, PPS contain all three skum, there is at least one skum that was on wagon day 1. if we lynch on wagon today, even if we are wrong, we force skums NK option at night (assuming that all skum was not off wagon).

TLDR - we can literally force skum to create a better poe for us by lynching an on wagon player today.

or of course if we get it right it doesn't help poe... but still we get got skum so I feel like it is worth it in that case.

[Swowl]

Boo-freaking-hoo bro. Get over yourself. You were hands down the scummiest person off the EFHW wagon and almost literally the only person to put any real effort into derailing it. And yet we STILL pursued other lynches over yours first, despite the fact that we both thought you were scum. You’re still alive, and many others are not. So get off your high horse and stop acting like you’re the only person in this game we’ve suspected.

So your theory is that I was throwing everything at stopping an EFHW lynch... while my two partners were pushing it?

why couldn't your partner(s) be eddie, adk, pps?

[Galzria]

The “facts” are that you, a claimed Doctor, have protected and have attempted to protect zero confirmed IC’s because, what, your feelings were hurt?

No, because it was likely to lead to a mislynch. Mislynches are bad for town, you know.

How does you doctoring lead to a mislynch?

Look, beyond the fact that you’ve not doctored any IC’s when you could’ve done... what you HAVE claimed to have done shows no positives for town whatsoever - and you can’t offer anything to show otherwise, right?

[pubby]

Galz did you receive anything or get a message last night?

[faust]

Boo-freaking-hoo bro. Get over yourself. You were hands down the scummiest person off the EFHW wagon and almost literally the only person to put any real effort into derailing it. And yet we STILL pursued other lynches over yours first, despite the fact that we both thought you were scum. You’re still alive, and many others are not. So get off your high horse and stop acting like you’re the only person in this game we’ve suspected.

So your theory is that I was throwing everything at stopping an EFHW lynch... while my two partners were pushing it?

why couldn't your partner(s) be eddie, adk, pps?

Well, Eddie we are supposing could have been the one to become the third Mason, so he would be town, and we haven't seen many other hopeful candidates for that spot. ADK is, flavor-wise, not very likely to be tied to the Espheni and much more likely to be tied to shraeye. PPS could be I guess, but that's only one.

[faust]

The “facts” are that you, a claimed Doctor, have protected and have attempted to protect zero confirmed IC’s because, what, your feelings were hurt?

No, because it was likely to lead to a mislynch. Mislynches are bad for town, you know.

How does you doctoring lead to a mislynch?

You/joth are forcing your will on town pretty hard on town, and you both scumread me, so you staying alive makes my mislynch significantly more likely. I mean, I would have loved to protect MiX, the IC who trusted me, but he was a Skitter.

Speaking of, if I were scum, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to take out the IC that is against me and keep the IC that is on my side alive?

[Galzria]

Swan, you don’t want to claim. But I assume that’s just kosher for scum. Why should I trust you’re town not wanting to claim and not scum?

[faust]

Look, beyond the fact that you’ve not doctored any IC’s when you could’ve done... what you HAVE claimed to have done shows no positives for town whatsoever - and you can’t offer anything to show otherwise, right?

Apart from Awaclus's role there is very little that roles can do that shows solid positives for town. I think my role does come pretty close, I do something that flavor heavily implies is a good thing for town. I have been affected by something that is most likely a scum power (in fact, two things, but I get that the second isn't confirmable at all). Glooble the dead townie has corroborated my claim. I'm not sure what more you're looking for.

[pubby]

How does Glooble being dead corroborate your claim?

[pubby]

vote: faust

[faust]

How does Glooble being dead corroborate your claim?

It is not he's being dead that corroborates it, it is the fact that he said the role I claimed makes a lot of sense with his role, and the fact that he's dead that means we can trust him.

[Galzria]

Look, beyond the fact that you’ve not doctored any IC’s when you could’ve done... what you HAVE claimed to have done shows no positives for town whatsoever - and you can’t offer anything to show otherwise, right?

Apart from Awaclus's role there is very little that roles can do that shows solid positives for town. I think my role does come pretty close, I do something that flavor heavily implies is a good thing for town. I have been affected by something that is most likely a scum power (in fact, two things, but I get that the second isn't confirmable at all). Glooble the dead townie has corroborated my claim. I'm not sure what more you're looking for.

So... whatcha think:

A) Releasing Children does (no use that we’ve seen so far)
B) Receiving a Headache does (no use that we’ve seen so far)

[pubby]

unvote

faust does your doctor ability even protect against NK? Or is it protection against something else?

[Swowl]

Swan, you don’t want to claim. But I assume that’s just kosher for scum. Why should I trust you’re town not wanting to claim and not scum?

I have nothing for this.

I will claim if demanded of me.

When I claim, we will learn nothing. If I had a result of some sort on skum obv I would of said something.

With my claim comes... the claim. Which will inherently give skum information to take action in the upcoming nights.

I don't have a better way of putting this. I can't even half claim. I mean I can, but the parts I can claim without giving info away just literally mean nothing.

[Galzria]

Faust, is Swan town?

[Uncleeurope]

Here's the thing, if Faust is town he could win us the game, so let's just chill on lynching him for a bit.

[Galzria]

Here's the thing, if Faust is town he could win us the game, so let's just chill on lynching him for a bit.

That reasoning follows... how?

[Uncleeurope]

Faust, is Swan town?

Btw, when do we get to know your invest results? Or did you already say what they were?

[Uncleeurope]

Here's the thing, if Faust is town he could win us the game, so let's just chill on lynching him for a bit.

That reasoning follows... how?

He is a (supposed) doctor, him being alive incentivizes oddities by scum in terms of nightkills, potentially forcing them into keeping ICs alive.

And that's just if he doesn't succeed in healing someone.

[faust]

A) Releasing Children does (no use that we’ve seen so far)

I thought you were on board with them being shots for scum to use? I've been buying into that to an extent. They're something that scum utilizes to do stuff. Releasing them means scum has less stuff to do.

B) Receiving a Headache does (no use that we’ve seen so far)

It is either a delayed kill mechanic - that makes the most sense from how it is steadily getting worse, but from a game-mechanic POV it's weird to have such a massive delay - or some way to tag people so that then a power can be triggered that affects all tagged people (like an Arsonist) - that seems a more reasonable game mechanic but then I don't know why the headaches are getting worse. I entertained the notion of it being a Cult thing, but we're promised no alignment changes.

[faust]

unvote

faust does your doctor ability even protect against NK? Or is it protection against something else?

It protects people that would die the night I target them, no matter the reason of the dying.

[Galzria]

A) Releasing Children does (no use that we’ve seen so far)

I thought you were on board with them being shots for scum to use? I've been buying into that to an extent. They're something that scum utilizes to do stuff. Releasing them means scum has less stuff to do.

B) Receiving a Headache does (no use that we’ve seen so far)

It is either a delayed kill mechanic - that makes the most sense from how it is steadily getting worse, but from a game-mechanic POV it's weird to have such a massive delay - or some way to tag people so that then a power can be triggered that affects all tagged people (like an Arsonist) - that seems a more reasonable game mechanic but then I don't know why the headaches are getting worse. I entertained the notion of it being a Cult thing, but we're promised no alignment changes.

Parting quotes is hard from my phone:

A) Yeah, that’s certainly what I’ve thought. You were quick to jump on / generally support / push that theory though - which if I’m wrong is suuuuuuuper convenient for scum to have me/Town believing. Not saying that I AM wrong mind you, just that if I am... I would expect scum to do exactly as you’ve done and take full advantage.

B) So that leaves us...? See, I’m trying to figure out how you (claiming) to have something that has no apparent negative repercussions is an argument for your towniness. “Something scum gives” - to what end? Why would they bother? How does somebody having it make them town?

[Galzria]

Faust, is Swan town?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.3:

ADK (1): Galzria
faust (2): ADK, WCD
WCD (2): Datswan, Faust

Not Voting (4): PPS, Uncleeurope, pubby, Awaclus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[Uncleeurope]

Okay, so a few things, I say if we wake up tomorrow and a dude is freed then we insta lynch Faust. No questions asked.

If one is freed tomorrow then Faust is trolling as town or unable to stop the freeing/a liar.

AKA we order Faust to not free someone as a test. (There hasn't been a day without one freed, right? Am I an idiot?)

It might be wishful thinking, but I find it rough to be winning this without him being a truth teller, and we have a fairly easy way to test a portion of his role based on Mod-confirmed crap in the flavor.

We KNOW one of ADK/Awaclus is evil, yes? I am not missing something there?

So that's 1/3 in that couplet right there.

If we pardon myself/Galz/Faust for today that leaves the couplet (ADK/Awa), Pubby, WCD, Swan, or PPS (actually had to look up who the last player alive was, PPS = ninja player) as lynchyables.

And further limitations occur even after that.

[faust]

Faust, is Swan town?

I think not, but the claim with giving you an item went over less smoothly than I would have expected from a scum fakeclaim. There are also more things about Didds that don't add up and so far noone has come out supporting anything she claimed.

[faust]

B) So that leaves us...? See, I’m trying to figure out how you (claiming) to have something that has no apparent negative repercussions is an argument for your towniness. “Something scum gives” - to what end? Why would they bother? How does somebody having it make them town?

Well, I don't know much flavor, but headaches seem like a thing the evil aliens inflict, especially if it feels like something growing within me - the Espheni have the ability to bioengineer their enemies into a slave race. I think if town was responsible for the headaches, we'd have heard by now.

[Galzria]

I do not believe scum!anyone (in this case pubby) goes to the effort that he did to put together a massive master narrative identifying “scum-teams” day 2 - I won’t be a part of his lynch.

PPS/ADK would be my preferred two off-wagon choices. ADK tops because he’s the “not Eddie, not Faust” player that was on Joth end of Day 1. One of those 3 are EFHW’s partner, and if we mislynch today and ADK is still alive (as Survivor) then he sides with Scum & wins. I would rather remove an at worst future potential scum vote with a decent chance of being scum than mislynch town again.

PPS is probably also scum though, unless two of Eddie/Faust/ADK are.

I still think there’s only one scum between WCD/Awaclus/Swan.

[faust]

We KNOW one of ADK/Awaclus is evil, yes? I am not missing something there?

I mean, we know ADK is evil. They claimed not town. If you think that one of them is not who they say because we'd have a quicklynch otherwise, then I would say, not necessarily, because the Espheni can't know that ADK really has a win condition that is compatible with theirs. ADK can be a SK (or in a 2-person scumteam) that can only win if the Espheni are dead.

[faust]

PPS/ADK would be my preferred two off-wagon choices. ADK tops because he’s the “not Eddie, not Faust” player that was on Joth end of Day 1. One of those 3 are EFHW’s partner, and if we mislynch today and ADK is still alive (as Survivor) then he sides with Scum & wins. I would rather remove an at worst future potential scum vote with a decent chance of being scum than mislynch town again.

But if ADK is third-party and Awaclus town, then lynching ADK means the Espheni have the numbers to lynch Awaclus tomorrow (assuming there is a NK).

[Uncleeurope]

Faust, is Swan town?

Btw, when do we get to know your invest results? Or did you already say what they were?

@Galz

[pingpongsam]

I totally missed that this game started up again on Sunday. Looks like a whole lot of stand-off, especially with regards to claiming. Quite surprised anyone is tossing votes around at this point. I am open to lynching anyone other than Galz and a weak second on Awaclus. That the IC continues to live is the only reason I get suspicious of Awaclus. Looks like a pile of rereading is in order. I am not opposed to massclaiming. I suppose Swan’s reluctance is potentially a town tell. I think we need some amount of claim behavior, though. Depending on certain things happening or not happening there is more or less of my role I’d be willing to claim.

The skitters flipped green but faust says he could not have doctored them, what about that adds up? Maybe I missed it somewhere but it’s this sort of thing I am looking for in claims.

[pingpongsam]

RE: headaches

Who all has/had them?

I remember Space, Faust. Didn’t Didds claim to have and then have not? Anyone else that I missed?

[faust]

The skitters flipped green but faust says he could not have doctored them, what about that adds up? Maybe I missed it somewhere but it’s this sort of thing I am looking for in claims.

I can't protect Skitters, as previously claimed.

[pubby]

I don't have a headache.

[faust]

RE: headaches

Who all has/had them?

I remember Space, Faust. Didn’t Didds claim to have and then have not? Anyone else that I missed?

Eddie had one yesterday if I remember correctly.

[pingpongsam]

So far, faust, Space, Eddie, and maybe Didds. Any other headaches going on? Also, faust suggest his gets worse. Anyone else having worse headaches?

I have had nothing of the sort.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I have not had a headache

[WestCoastDidds]

I am way more swamped with work than I thought I'd be.  I won't be able to get caught up or contribute meaningfully until I get home tonight or tomorrow morning depending on how much of a crush the later part of the day turns out to be.

I had a headache D1, on N1 a kid came to talk to ask me questions and said that he thought I'd feel better. I didn't have a headache D2. Are kids required to doctor?? If faust doesn't doctor the kid escapes? I have no idea.

[pingpongsam]

I'm not finding much on the wiki that equates to headache flavor. My thoughts was it is related to some time delayed scum killing or weakening action. I was trying to find the order they showed up in. IIRC Space delayed mentioning their headache but said it had been present the entire game. That might suggest a N0 action.

What days did the headaches appear for each player? I think there is potential POE, here.

[Uncleeurope]

I'm not finding much on the wiki that equates to headache flavor. My thoughts was it is related to some time delayed scum killing or weakening action. I was trying to find the order they showed up in. IIRC Space delayed mentioning their headache but said it had been present the entire game. That might suggest a N0 action.

What days did the headaches appear for each player? I think there is potential POE, here.

What was your role again, PPS?

[Uncleeurope]

I am way more swamped with work than I thought I'd be.  I won't be able to get caught up or contribute meaningfully until I get home tonight or tomorrow morning depending on how much of a crush the later part of the day turns out to be.

I had a headache D1, on N1 a kid came to talk to ask me questions and said that he thought I'd feel better. I didn't have a headache D2. Are kids required to doctor?? If faust doesn't doctor the kid escapes? I have no idea.

I thought the kid was tied to your role? Are you saying you don’t know why the kid visited you?

[pingpongsam]

I'm not finding much on the wiki that equates to headache flavor. My thoughts was it is related to some time delayed scum killing or weakening action. I was trying to find the order they showed up in. IIRC Space delayed mentioning their headache but said it had been present the entire game. That might suggest a N0 action.

What days did the headaches appear for each player? I think there is potential POE, here.

What was your role again, PPS?

I don't know that I have claimed much at all. I believe I claimed my number and that I was looking to acquire an item.

[Galzria]

I'm not finding much on the wiki that equates to headache flavor. My thoughts was it is related to some time delayed scum killing or weakening action. I was trying to find the order they showed up in. IIRC Space delayed mentioning their headache but said it had been present the entire game. That might suggest a N0 action.

What days did the headaches appear for each player? I think there is potential POE, here.

What was your role again, PPS?

I don't know that I have claimed much at all. I believe I claimed my number and that I was looking to acquire an item.

What item? What does it do?

[pingpongsam]

The Ghost Mask makes me a one shot bulletproof bodyguard. It's like a one shot doctor that prevents a kill intended either for me or for my target.

[pingpongsam]

The wording is iffy. It seems it may be one shot in that it goes away after getting shot. It sounds like deploying it may have been indefinite until hit. Words used carefully to avoid any quoting. I have not gotten any mod clarification because I have yet to receive the item which may have come with additional wording for all I know. I suspect Mix died with it on him.

[Swowl]

The wording is iffy. It seems it may be one shot in that it goes away after getting shot. It sounds like deploying it may have been indefinite until hit. Words used carefully to avoid any quoting. I have not gotten any mod clarification because I have yet to receive the item which may have come with additional wording for all I know. I suspect Mix died with it on him.

Why do you think MiX had it when he died?

[Swowl]

I do not have a headache

[pingpongsam]

The wording is iffy. It seems it may be one shot in that it goes away after getting shot. It sounds like deploying it may have been indefinite until hit. Words used carefully to avoid any quoting. I have not gotten any mod clarification because I have yet to receive the item which may have come with additional wording for all I know. I suspect Mix died with it on him.

Why do you think MiX had it when he died?

He said he received an item the other night but had no use for it and wanted to know if I wanted to ask him about it.

[WestCoastDidds]

I thought the kid was tied to your role? Are you saying you don’t know why the kid visited you?

Correct. I don't know why I was visited and it was only N1. No one else has said they were, I don't think?

[Uncleeurope]

So what is your role?

I assumed the kid was your role for some reason.

Have you said what it is and I missed it?

[pubby]

I received something last night. Don't think it's an item though. It's pro-town.

[Galzria]

vote: WCD

[Galzria]

vote: WCD

She’s claimed a scum inflicted effect (headache), an what should be a town afflicted remedy, but no town has claimed to be able to clear the headaches, and no other player has been healed of their headache’s, despite The headaches being claimed for multiple days.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.4:

faust (2): ADK, WCD
WCD (3): Datswan, Faust, Galzria

Not Voting (4): PPS, Uncleeurope, pubby, Awaclus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[pubby]

Wow risky vote Galz.

WCD, what was the character name you were told?

[pubby]

I have some vagely-worded ability which could maybe help headaches. Honestly I don't know. I don't really understand my ability at all I just know it does something helpful regarding flavor. I don't get any message when using it.

I used it on faust n2 and Glooble n3. Faust got a message from me because I targeted him. I don't know what happened with Glooble. My ability might have killed him 

[Galzria]

Wow risky vote Galz.

Meh.

[pubby]

BTW I used it on Awaclus n1. I thought it was kinda suspicious he didn't comment about receiving a message.

[Awaclus]

BTW I used it on Awaclus n1. I thought it was kinda suspicious he didn't comment about receiving a message.

I did receive it, but I didn't see any benefit in talking about it. From the wording in my QT, it is not clear to me what kind of role I was targeted by, and if it was a town role that actually did something useful in addition to sending that message, the fact that it targeted me could give scum insight into who it was.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: WCD

The headaches don't add up. I could do the math for you but you already know don't you?

[faust]

Unannounced L-1.

unvote

I do want to hear a full claim from Didds before we lynch.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.5:

faust (2): ADK, WCD
WCD (3): Datswan, Galzria, PPS

Not Voting (4): PPS, Uncleeurope, pubby, Awaclus, faust

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends at 10:30 p.m. on August 28.

[WestCoastDidds]

Catching up....

I assumed that faust had sent the kid to talk to me since he said he had the power to release them, but the kid didn’t day who had sent him.

I am not certain that the headache was inflicted, or that it came from scum, and I don’t know if I did something to relieve it, or to give it to someone else or if someone else healed me. I don’t understand it so I am not able to explain it. Alas. Here is the thing, though, when assessing scumminess....why would I have said anything about it? When I said it, it was to help give town more information. I wasn’t under pressure, and it doesn’t help clear me of anything and it doesn’t implicate anyone else. It’s just more information.

If this was D2, I’d say that I’m a pretty good lynch, if we’re gonna lynch town, because I don’t have very interesting power. In fact, I’d say that I’m probably the closest thing to a VT in a game that likely doesn’t have VTs.

I’m Jimmy Boland, a 13 year old boy. (Which I find super funny since of you remaining who has never been a teenage boy.) My role is to watch. I can find out if someone targeted someone else at night. Not who, just if.

I watched Eddie N1 (no), PPS N2 (no), and Awaclus N3 (no).

I’m not going to tell you the name the kid told me because it hasn’t been revealed in the game and I don’t think it is helpful for me to do so if they think it’s better to keep it under wraps. Plus I don’t know if it’s fake, etc, etc

[faust]

I’m not going to tell you the name the kid told me because it hasn’t been revealed in the game and I don’t think it is helpful for me to do so if they think it’s better to keep it under wraps. Plus I don’t know if it’s fake, etc, etc

How about you do tell us or I'll vote for your. You have 30 minutes.

[pingpongsam]

I was assuming headaches were a targetted scum function. My suspicion is that there are too many headaches to account for single night actions creating them. However, it has occurred to me that there could some be infective vector where "contact" with an infected player infects another without further scum intervention. Maybe scum only took one action?

Can anyone counterclaim WCD's watcher results?

[Awaclus]

I can confirm I didn't target anyone n3.

[Awaclus]

Well, these were certainly not the highest-risk targets for a hypothetical fake claim, given that all 3 of us already claimed something that doesn't have anything to do with targeting. For all I know, WCD might even have named partners there if scum are confident they can force a win as long as a mislynch goes through today, and the role is even something that scum could plausibly have in an RMM.

[pubby]

I'll vote for WCD if she doesn't reveal the name.

[WestCoastDidds]

Look, I pretty much singlehandedly lost the DS9 game for town by revealing too much.

If they reveal their name, I will confirm it. But otherwise no. Trying to force me to do it is SUPER SCUMMY and if I could vote for faust 3x more, I would.

[faust]

Vote: Didds

[faust]

if I could vote for faust 3x more, I would.

Knock yourself out.

Vote: Didds

Vote: Didds

Vote: Didds

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, faust...so much love. Come on, admit it...after a year, I am starting to grow on you, huh?

[Uncleeurope]

Faust needs to target Galz tonight.

If there is a kid that runs off into the sunset then we kill Faust.

Or if Galz is dead.

Everyone else on board with this plan?

[Awaclus]

Everyone else on board with this plan?

No. Town needs to not tell scum who's going to target who. Faust does need to doctor someone though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Faust needs to target Galz tonight.

If there is a kid that runs off into the sunset then we kill Faust.

Or if Galz is dead.

Everyone else on board with this plan?

Eddie how do you feel about a didds lynch?

[WestCoastDidds]

In the words of faust, et tu kernale?

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: didds

[Uncleeurope]

vote: didds

Well that doesn't bode well.

[pingpongsam]

Survivor is like honeybadger, no?

[Galzria]

Hum.

I feel this is the one lynch I’ll regret this game.  Should’ve lynched ADK/PPS.

[Swowl]

OK well... this is like the skummiest wagon on earth so IDK how much confidence I have in this lynch anymore... but too late now.

If WCD is Skum:
- Leaves [Swan, Awaclus] on EFHW Day 1.
- Leaves [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS] on Joth Day 1.
There would be 2 more skum in there somewhere, and 100% 1 skum in [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS].

Of that lot, I would be most suspicious of ADK if WCD flipped skum.


If WCD is Town:
- Leaves [Swan, Awaclus] on EFHW Day 1.
- Leaves [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS] on Joth Day 1.
If the game continues, some combination of Awaclus/ADK has to be lying. If I understand correctly.
I would be pretty hardset on Awaclus, if didds flips town.

After them, I would still find ADK the most suspicious.


So yeah, not quite sure if it is gonna matter at all, but regardless of WCD's flip I think the combo of the next 2 players is like ADK/Awaclus or ADK/Faust... but everything surrounding the ADK claim is making me more and more suspicious of them.

PPE 2

[Uncleeurope]

It's worth noting that no one died night 1, then 1 person died night 2, then 2 people died night three.

I wonder if the amount of people with headaches active correlates with the amount of people they are allowed to kill...?

AKA the baddies are "using" the people with headaches to kill people in the night.

I dunno.

[Swowl]

It's worth noting that no one died night 1, then 1 person died night 2, then 2 people died night three.

I wonder if the amount of people with headaches active correlates with the amount of people they are allowed to kill...?

AKA the baddies are "using" the people with headaches to kill people in the night.

I dunno.

I had a theory on this one also along these lines. I was working up and angle of connectivity as well... mainly based on SKITTERS and the HEADACHES:


1) Space's headache got worse and then they were given the choice to turn into a SKITTER.
2) Faust cannot doctor SKITTERS (potential balancing component). Like mafia can turn people into skitters, then makes them not capable of targeting.
3) Then of course, the night we had 2 deaths... they were both SKITTERS.

IDK how it all works together into anything useful, but I think the two components are def connected.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: didds

Well that doesn't bode well.

I actually feel pretty confident didds is scum

But really it's just a lynch that isn't me

[pingpongsam]

Not only do I though NK Didds is scum, I think they are the source of headaches.

[pingpongsam]

Not only do I though NK Didds is scum, I think they are the source of headaches.

“Though NK” should be “think”.

[A Drowned Kernel]

OK well... this is like the skummiest wagon on earth so IDK how much confidence I have in this lynch anymore... but too late now.

If WCD is Skum:
- Leaves [Swan, Awaclus] on EFHW Day 1.
- Leaves [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS] on Joth Day 1.
There would be 2 more skum in there somewhere, and 100% 1 skum in [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS].

Of that lot, I would be most suspicious of ADK if WCD flipped skum.


If WCD is Town:
- Leaves [Swan, Awaclus] on EFHW Day 1.
- Leaves [Faust, ADK, Eddie, PPS] on Joth Day 1.
If the game continues, some combination of Awaclus/ADK has to be lying. If I understand correctly.
I would be pretty hardset on Awaclus, if didds flips town.

After them, I would still find ADK the most suspicious.


So yeah, not quite sure if it is gonna matter at all, but regardless of WCD's flip I think the combo of the next 2 players is like ADK/Awaclus or ADK/Faust... but everything surrounding the ADK claim is making me more and more suspicious of them.

PPE 2

Also nice preemptive "ADK is scum no matter what didds flips!" reasoning there

[ashersky]

D4 Final Vote Count:

faust (1): WCD
WCD (5): Datswan, Galzria, PPS, Faust, ADK

Not Voting (3): Uncleeurope, pubby, Awaclus

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Twilight begins now.

[Galzria]

For reference:

Not on EFHW: ADK, PPS, Faust
On Didds: ADK, PPS, Faust

Two of the three are scum.

[ashersky]

The sun beat down on us today, slowing down time and making the air thick.  We thought maybe, maybe we had a chance to survive.  There are so few of us left now.  But, apocalypses can do that to a group.  We had to settle this, and quickly.  We don't have a choice.

WestCoastDidds was lynched! They were Karen Nadler, a Harnessed Human Slave, masquerading as Jimmy Boland.

Night 4 begins now!

[ashersky]

The moon never felt more alien.  Not since actual aliens showed up.  It used to be so beautiful...now, I just wonder what's coming next from behind its false serenity.

There was some activity with the kids in the clearing.  It looks like one sat down again. Nothing else. Still six kids left here.

Stay alive.  Fight.  Survive.

Pingpongsam was modkilled during the night for a rule infraction.  They were The Monk, an Espheni Overlord.
Datswan was modkilled during the night for a rule infraction. They were Sonya Rankin, a Human Turncoat.

Day 5 begins now.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.0:

Not Voting (6): faust, Galzria, Uncleeurope, pubby, Awaclus, ADK

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.  Day 5 ends on August 29 at 9:00 a.m.

[pubby]

What a twist 

So according to Space there was 4 scum. I guess we're down to 3rd parties then?

[Awaclus]

I suggest we lynch the claimed third party today.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I suggest we lynch the claimed third party today.

I'd rather we didn't but I'm not sure if anything I say will delay the inevitable

[faust]

What on earth... sad that it would be resolved like this.

Vote: ADK

[faust]

I mainly want this to be over so I can find out what just happened.

[pubby]

faust did you doctor last night?

[faust]

faust did you doctor last night?

Yes, you.

[Galzria]

That seems unfortunate for scum, but I trust Ash. It seems more unfortunate for the remaining 3rd party as my lynch order today to tomorrow was going to go PPS -> Swan, so this really hurt 3rd party chance to win while probably only minorly effecting Espheni (well, I mean, you get what I mean).

My feelings for potential 3rd party keeping the game going players are:

ADK (claimed 3rd party)
Faust (win con associated with Harnessed Children)
Awaclus (I’m sure he made me IC & became hated D2 - I’m not crazy convinced that means he must be Town)

Speaking of Awaclus being hated - unless the plan is to lynch him today, that removes any option for no-lynch parity as he cannot safely be one of the final 3.

There’s no proof that the remaining 3rd party can kill. Only one night has seen double deaths and two nights (1 & 4) have effectively seen none due to night actions.

[pubby]

Awaclus can you claim anything?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus can you claim anything?

Eh, I guess I might as well.

I'm Tom Mason, the Leader of the 2nd Mass. It's green and I have the town win con. In addition to the 1-shot ability that I have already told the truth about (which made Galz an IC), I have another 1-shot ability which lets me cancel the lynch during twilight, which means that the day still ends but nobody gets lynched.

[Galzria]

vote: ADK

[Awaclus]

Are we still waiting for something or can we lynch ADK already?

[Galzria]

Are we still waiting for something or can we lynch ADK already?

Everybody except Eddie has posted.

[Awaclus]

So I guess we'll wait for Eddie to post.

[A Drowned Kernel]

shoot: awaclus

[pubby]

vote: ADK

[pubby]

Actually I will wait for eddie

unvote

[Galzria]

shoot: awaclus

That’s not nice.

[A Drowned Kernel]

shoot: awaclus

That’s not nice.

I'm just trolling

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I will say this, it is very important that faust doctors either myself or Galz tonight.

[Uncleeurope]

Oh, and also that this is a super bummer that the game became this.

[Awaclus]

Oh, and also that this is a super bummer that the game became this.

True dat.

Vote: ADK

[Uncleeurope]

Hammertime from me, then? I guess?

[Uncleeurope]

Vote: ADK

[pubby]

If I die tonight then faust should be lynched tomorrow. I think it's pretty unlikely, but I say this with strong deduction.

[A Drowned Kernel]

My power is that if I'm lynched, all town players immediately die

Governor me plz

[Uncleeurope]

Well played, ADK.

GG.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well played, ADK.

GG.

I mean there might be another third party out there, in which case I'm rooting for you

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I appreciate the support in this trying time.

[pubby]

Allys win flawlessly 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Nice

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you win at the expense of or with town?

[Galzria]

Well, I’ll go ahead and claim out for funsies:

I am a Universal Roleblocker - I can prevent the most harmful night action against my win con by causing a child to calm down. I do not need to target anyone, it’s all automated. By virtue of my preventing harmful night actions via the calming of harnessed children, I reasoned the children to be used as shots. I block them, but they also aren’t used up.

[Galzria]

I blocked scum N1 & N4.

[Galzria]

I’m really interested in faust’s ability and how it plays in.

[ashersky]

D5 Final Vote Count:

ADK (4): faust, Galz, Awaclus, Uncleeurope

Not Voting (2): Pubby, ADK

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

Twilight begins now.

[Awaclus]

I blocked scum N1 & N4.

Wait, so there was a more dangerous threat to town's win con on N2-N3? Do you have any idea what it was?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Last chance to save me, awaclus

[Awaclus]

Last chance to save me, awaclus

Long live the third party.

[Galzria]

I blocked scum N1 & N4.

Wait, so there was a more dangerous threat to town's win con on N2-N3? Do you have any idea what it was?

Oh, I have a theory.

[ashersky]

Even if we win the day, the weeks and months continue. Still, relief would be sweet, a respite well-deserved.

We couldn't save every child, but we saved some.  We couldn't save all of our friends and family, but we saved some.  The sacrifice of the ones we lost were not in vain.

ADK was lynched! They were John Pope, a Troubled Survivor, masquerading as Matt Mason.

The Earth has been saved!  At least for now...

[ashersky]

Thanks everyone, for playing, and I'm sorry for the way the game ended prematurely due to some modkills.  We can all commiserate together.  The quick explanation:

Scum was made up of four players.  Two were traditional (EFHW/PPS), in that they could talk to each other.  Two were basically traitors (DS/WCD), in that they were unknown to the other two scum.  All four knew all four flavor names.  The traitors knew all four player names.  There was a QT available to all four to read, but only EFHW/PPS could post, so scum could coordinate.  There were multiple warnings in multiple QTs that if anyone other than living traditional scum posted in that QT, the entire faction would be modkilled.  DS/WCD had to confirm reading and understanding of that rule.  Since the rule was in place so firmly, there was no ignoring it and still being fair to the rest of the game.

A few quick thoughts to share on the game:

--the double modkill: Again, I didn't like it, but I felt like I had to go through with it after having made such a big deal of the rule at the beginning of the game. The added stress was part of the experience, and I liked the implementation of traitors that were "unknown" but could be coordinated. There were multiple warnings and confirmations at the beginning of the game, so going back on it would have been dishonest and unfair to the rest of the game, even if it did just end it in a sort of unfun way for everyone.

--the setup: I was going for the introduction of some new concepts in game design. I don't know if they were actually new, but do "newish" or "original" seem like fair adjectives? The first one was the idea of "contingent" as a modifier. I think we've probably had roles that were "triggered" by something happening, but I went for something more with the idea, including things that could be forced, done on purpose, or would be disadvantageous. I extended the idea from powers to win conditions very early on, with conditionally win conditions being a neat way to implement "alignment changes" without actually changes alignments. ADK/Shraeye went from a Lyncher win-con to an SK win-con. They never actually changed alignments (always purple), but just had to do different things to win based on the game condition.

--2.7's Lexi was the first role I created for the game. In retrospect, I should have used a single color for the alignment, but otherwise I am happy with the role. I'm sad it wasn't more of a factor.

--The Troubled Survivor faction was neat. Purple is the usual color of the SK, but people let the flavor name (and claim) keep them off that track for awhile. Props to ADK for never shooting, which was a flavored kill designed to give him away. The decision point there was whether to use the day vig and effectively lose the NK, or the other way around.

--I constantly battled with the feeling that scum was underpowered. I actually only had three until late in the process, then added Sonya for balance.

--Sonya is a fruit vendor, sending useless items. PPS's item claim on D1 (D2?) was completely uncoordinated, in that he didn't know the role existed, but I found that to be pretty incredible.

--Props to faust for holding his ground against the IC.

[ashersky]

I'd ask everyone to share their own ROLE QTs.  Alternatively, you can just paste the entirety of your Role Description if you don't want your QT shared.

Many players like knowing about the other roles, thanks.

[Galzria]

FWIW - I was very unlikely to be lynching Faust past mid-way D2. If you look at my votes and consistent lynch buckets they never included him. However I very much aimed to keep him in my sights to draw NK’s away from him. Only time I really hard-scum read him was during Night 1.

[Galzria]

Ben Mason QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/WpnSYM6sfEB

[Galzria]

Mason QT
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/KTSKgNWYLk9

[Galzria]

I'd ask everyone to share their own ROLE QTs.  Alternatively, you can just paste the entirety of your Role Description if you don't want your QT shared.

Many players like knowing about the other roles, thanks.

Spec/Mod?

[Awaclus]

Here's my QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fncCM8ZnPDrr

[ashersky]

Speccy: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/uXkE2E88Gqnx

[Uncleeurope]

Maggie:

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/BpV47H8cGrM

Sorry for being Uber cagey, I just wanted to avoid my lover status being outed.

I will love you to the end, Galz <3

[Galzria]

Maggie:

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/BpV47H8cGrM

Sorry for being Uber cagey, I just wanted to avoid my lover status being outed.

I will love you to the end, Galz <3

I had that figured out, so it was all fine. 🙂

[EFHW]

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/YbTAtF35BEd

I sent the kid to talk to MiX.

[Uncleeurope]

Yeah, well you forced me into revealing enough to make it obvious.

Hey, Ash, do I get to know the secret part of my role, now?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Kind of anticlimatic way for it to end, if scum had stayed alive I think I had a chance to keep dodging a lynch, at least to the point of making it a kingmaker scenario

[A Drowned Kernel]

My QT:https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8yXtPqk57UYD

[shraeye]

Had a great time playing. 

My QT here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/gpxW3N5TQNy7B

Mostly that's just me asking clarifying questions.

A little frustrated that the post#1 wincon was not the actual town wincon.

[Glooble]

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/TjvTbUB24ynXG

Red Eye QT. As I said in the speccy, I maybe slightly exaggerated my protective role in an attempt to draw a nightkill so I could “rally the town”.

What did that do, by the way?

[jotheonah]

In what way is a serial killer not a threat to town???

QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/skTQmeDuDSEBt

[A Drowned Kernel]

In what way is a serial killer not a threat to town???

QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/skTQmeDuDSEBt

I was technically on a two-person scum team, not a serial killer And if I understand correctly, my win condition and status as a threat was changeable; if ephensi had all gotten lynched with me, shraeye and awaclus all still alive, we would have just straight up lost

[Galzria]

Yeah, well you forced me into revealing enough to make it obvious.

Hey, Ash, do I get to know the secret part of my role, now?

Yes, well, sorry. A lot of people in some seriously scummy positions coming off D1. I needed to know who was town and who wasn’t. I had already cleared pubby, was relatively confident on how I wanted to play Faust for the rest of the game, and needed to know where you stood. After clearing you three isolating out the rest of scum became MUCH easier.

Shraeye claiming to have an incriminating result when we had a day Vig was damning for him. I totally get where non!town!Shraeye’s argument came from, but it just didn’t follow if Shraeye were actually town. Just unfortunate he wasn’t Espheni.

Space, I’m sorry for mislynching you, but fully stand behind the lynch. Shraeye lying there just didn’t make sense because even if we believed him and lynched you D2, it meant he would be lynched D3 by you flipping town. The argument that alignments could come back wrong doesn’t really work because if you’re town there, then there isn’t a logical way for you to give an Espheni result unless it’s part of your role - which you weren’t claiming. Yeah, it sucked to lynch town there, but that’s the hand Shraeye delt is.

WCD - Yeah. Didn’t think she was scum. A lot of that was Joth’s read, but a portion of it was mine. Regardless, PPS was much more obviously scum and should’ve been lynched first.

Without the modkills, PPS would’ve been the lynch Day 5. I’m not certain about Swan or ADK Day 6 though. And then Day 7 could’ve been a toss up (I -think- ADK loses this most times here, just based on already being a 3rd party claim, but Swan might’ve won out).

Ash - Would ADK have recharged my power?

My PR was also incredibly strong, even with some amount of randomness assigned to it.

I was relatively happy with my ability to work out the parts of the game I was, and was happy with most of my votes.

e, ADK was pretty clearly “not-Espheni”, even if he was potentially SK. I did not fear a coordinated shot from him or him aiming to “avoid” partners. I trusted him to shoot the player he most thought to be Espheni. And yes, I went from feeling you were town for the hammer on EFHW to being uncertain - that was a combination your own play plus people I town read that were scum reading you. I have very adaptive reads when I play, and I try very hard not to get so stuck on any one thing that I’m blinded by other possibilities.

[Glooble]

Ash- what was the deal with the headaches?

[Galzria]

Ash- what was the deal with the headaches?

I had one the past two days but didn’t share it in the hope scum thought it may have failed giving me one.

[Uncleeurope]

Pps could give people worms that let him see who they targeted at night I believe.

[ashersky]

Lyncher was not a threat, SK was.  Shraeye lynch didn’t recharge, but once the win con changed, ADK’s lynch did recharge.

If town had won with ADK, shraeye and Awaclus alive, ADK and shraeye would have lost without dying.

Headaches were flavor warnings that you had eyeworms.

[Galzria]

MiX - The only day I questioned your IC status and made you claim was probably a dumb mistake on my part. You had claimed to not get e’s powers until the “next game phase”, which was consistent with what Ash told me about my PR recharging. Then Joth died at the start of D3 and you claimed to have his power. It seemed to me you shouldn’t get it until the following night if you were telling the truth - but I realized I was equating the day start resolution of NK’s to that day, and not the night the occurred (because to me, that night, Joth & I could talk - his death didn’t happen until day began). Once you claimed out his powers I realized I was being an idiot. That’s why I confirmed to you that no, we had not been recharged.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, as much as people assumed I would be the third mason, my assumption is it being e due to his “Glass Mason” tag.

No idea, though.

[Galzria]

Also, as much as people assumed I would be the third mason, my assumption is it being e due to his “Glass Mason” tag.

No idea, though.

Yeah, don’t actually know. Could’ve been Awaclus if I were to guess now. More Mason’s in game than I suspected.

[Glooble]

Ash, how did my death rally the town?

[ashersky]

Ash, how did my death rally the town?

1 to 4 1-shot BP distributes randomly.  Roll resulted in only one, to pubby.

[ashersky]

PPS picked unluckily with the eyeworms.  No targeting at all.

He would have received targets AND results.

[ashersky]

I needed more powers that used kids, but in the end the numbers seemed good.  EFHW was the only other player who could use them.

[Uncleeurope]

What happened to Joth if the lovers died at night?

[ashersky]

Recharged shot.

[ashersky]

Recharged shot.

Or additional if it was charged.

[pubby]

Ally Chat: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tWNnYYwr9P77

So did I kill glooble?

[Galzria]

Ah, seems my claiming of a headache would’ve incriminated Swan. Ah well.

[Swowl]

Ah, seems my claiming of a headache would’ve incriminated Swan. Ah well.

I was not responsible for any headaches?

[Galzria]

Ah, seems my claiming of a headache would’ve incriminated Swan. Ah well.

I was not responsible for any headaches?

You were the only result of a player who targeted me the night I got them. Mayhaps an incomplete result, or a randomly chosen one based on multiple options - but it would’ve unfortunately for you lined up.

[Swowl]

My QT:https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8yXtPqk57UYD

dude you played so damn well. my damn PR was conditional commuter, so I was pretty set on you as some sort of SK after shraeye... but with no shots I had like literally no way of attempting to pursue that case.

Also - I am equally sorry to you as my skum mates... you legit probably had a better chance than I did prior to my....blunder.

[Swowl]

Ah, seems my claiming of a headache would’ve incriminated Swan. Ah well.

I was not responsible for any headaches?

You were the only result of a player who targeted me the night I got them. Mayhaps an incomplete result, or a randomly chosen one based on multiple options - but it would’ve unfortunately for you lined up.

Ah I am caught up now. yeah I could not eye worm you... only PPS. But I did give you the beans as a HUGE part of my fake claim after PPS claimed the item existence. PPS, you also accidently did amazing there with the BG/DOC mask thing, because I was gonna claim a sort of weak/loud bodyguard.... however in the end... if Pubby had a result on me instead of you... if I were alive instead of you... it really wouldn't of mattered

[Swowl]

I am not going to bore people with my QT as I keep all of my notes there and it would just be obnoxious to read.

Flavor: I was the Traitor, Sonya.

Knowledge: I knew EFHW/PPS/WCD were skum.

Shared QTs:
EFHW/PPS could speak to each other at any time.
WCD and myself could view the shared thread with them at any time, but were not allowed to post there.

Powers:
1) I was a Fruit Vendor. I could give an apple or a can of beans. The items had no use. If asked about them, a player would NOT be told who they came from or what they could do.
2) I was contingently immune to night kills. If I was both not voting and not being voted for at the end of any day, I could use this ability during that night phase.
3) Evidently, if PPS and EFHW both died, WCD or myself would not inherit the NK action... which was unfortunate fairly quickly in regards to bussing potential.

[Swowl]

I had a ton of fun playing this game and I think that everyone played super well.

If I had to pick a bias MVP, it would obviously go to Shraeye... as they were the only reason we had a shot to get back into the game

All non-mafia players get mad props for how they handled the info distribution of their roles - I think I speak for all of us when I say we were just confused af. So, good job there imo. In my, let's call them... assumptions - I would of never guessed pubby had so much info to divulge, I would of never guessed that ADK and Shraeye were connected... Glooble had me 100% sold on the doctor ability, even with the Faust doctor claim in play... obviously, I was personally suspicious of ADK, but I thought they played excellently... Awaclus played their role to the max potential, especially keeping the revoke-lynch in the back pocket... Space was the usual perfect Space, and obviously was put in just a shitty situation, but def made the best out of it choosing to use ability and turn into skitter... I was literally completely oblivious to the Lover's thing until it was mentioned post-game, so props to eddie for finding a way to convey that to Galz... if I wasn't skum this game I would of gotten lyched trying to push Faust, so obviously they played well. If I missed anyone, I apologize, but I thought everyone played well.

I thought my skum mates played well too. PPS like perfectly orchestrated the Day 1 bus, then made a good call on the day 2 Joth target again, then played off my WCD bus super well. EFHW wasn't around long, and it was a bummer for that, but I thought she played great while she was in the game. I still HAVE NO CLUE WTF WCD COULD DO, but I assume she did baller as usual. Swan obviously sucked a big one on this one... which again, I apologize for. Not a mistake I will be making again...


And then of course there are the Masons - while there was a small amount of unfortunate nature for us as skum in the whole "mason got ICd day 2" bit... they obviously played amazingly. They pushed through a skum lynch day 1, they did the switch claim thing well enough, then galz managed to correctly push WCD and I 100% believe them when they say it would of been PPS or me the final day if everything did not go down the way it did.


Not to narrow anyone out, but I think Galz and Faust did awesomely this game. So, if we are doing MVP or whatever, they are where my vote would go.

Thank you Ash for the game. It was super fun.

[ashersky]

Pubby killed Glooble.

Karen could inherit the kill, but not Sonya.

PPS eyeworms didn’t count as targeting.

[Swowl]

Also...

Night 0:
PPS eyewormed Space (we were informed when she chose to skitterize that she knew there were 3 of us left)
EFHW sent a kid to MiX (we learned their flavor)

Night 1:
PPS shot at Joth (no kill, blocked by Galz I think)
PPS eyewormed Faust (I don't think we ever learned anything from that?)

Night 2:
PPS killed Joth
PPS eyewormed Eddie (nothing learned)
Swan went immune
Swan gave and apple to MiX

Night 3:
PPS killed MiX
PPS eyewormed Galz (nothing learned)
Swan gave a can of beans to Galz

Night 4:
PPS attempted to kill Faust
Swan attempted to give a can of beans to Galz
Obviously, we were both mod-killed due to rule infraction.

[Swowl]

Pubby killed Glooble.

Karen could inherit the kill, but not Sonya.

PPS eyeworms didn’t count as targeting.

wow, dunno how the NK inherit thing got messed up on our end (not that it would of mattered)... def would of changed things on Day 4 a bit

[Uncleeurope]

I would read your QT, Swan. Because I have no life.

[MiX]

Can't believe that N0 conversation meant something...and choosing not to reveal my power paid off! That's just luck, I had no idea what that was for.

QT has too many weird questions, so here's my role: "Inherit Responsibilities (Contingent). Each time a player dies, you will inherit a role power from that player, regardless of alignment. If the dead player has multiple role powers, one will be randomly selected. You will inherit two or three roles, to be determined by the mod. Once, after all powers are inherited, if you have not used any powers, you may request a new set of powers from subsequent deaths."

This is why I didn't see shraeye's power (only got 2) and why I couldn't use e's mass roleblock (I dumped them to get more). I thought it was fairly obvious that I wouldn't have PGO when it mattered, but was it?

[faust]

My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Y4FLNUcNJzH36

I think the double-Traitor thing is neat, I thought about doing that before as well. Not sure my releasing would have ever had a noticable effect though. PPS bussing his only partner to death on D1 is so PPS.

[SpaceAnemone]

Thanks for the interesting game, Ash!

My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/NFEtNB58y4XVJ

I felt like that role was a really good one for me to get since I tend to get mislynched quite often, so being able to control my own expiry in exchange for town-helping info seemed great. So it's rather funny that I got mislynched before I even got to tell you all I was already dead :-P

[EFHW]

My QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Y4FLNUcNJzH36

I think the double-Traitor thing is neat, I thought about doing that before as well. Not sure my releasing would have ever had a noticable effect though. PPS bussing his only partner to death on D1 is so PPS.

He didn't,  though.

[EFHW]

Ash, are you not putting the scum qts up on purpose?

[jotheonah]

Scum tried to kill me night 1 when I wasn’t even an IC?? Why? I don’t think my reads were great and I wasn’t especially suspected and I didn’t even breadcrumb cop.

[WestCoastDidds]

That was fun, ya'll! I apologize for being only kind of around, the start of the semester is colliding with some moving house stuff and had me distracted to no end.

My mind (where Swan and I can hear the Espheni) :https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/598M8hFvX7p
Mine: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/BPdsX3DjYGKSm

Ash, I'd have inherited the NK? In the scum chat, EFHW and later PPS said we wouldn't inherit the NK so I was under the impression we wouldn't.

I could redirect a skitter, harnessed, or spiked person, and then I could watch someone
I redirected MiX to Shaeye, Glooble to MiX, and Glooble to ADK.

[WestCoastDidds]

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/598M8hFvX7p
A link that works...

[pubby]

Pubby killed Glooble.

skinned him alive and wore his hide as my 1-shot bulletproof vest

absolutely ghastly

[2.71828.....]

Here is my qt: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tfwxacUqHBmL

Absolutely loved the game and setup.  @Galzria, yeah, probably came off a little rough there in the qt for a while.  Really, when it comes down to it shooting me was definitely not bad for town.  Granted, better for town would have been to shoot scum or let me shoot ADK at night like I would have.

My plan (had I successfully convinced people not to shoot) was either
1) if a magical no lynch happened (best case scenario) then I use my power to block everything at night and 3 game phases elapse without a death and I win and leave the game
2) if we lynch some random person I shoot ADK at night.

Option 2 I think would have been better for town in the long run in my opinion since I could win with town (unlike ADK).  But I couldn't very well say that since my life was in the hands of someone who could day-vig me.

[ashersky]

Ash, are you not putting the scum qts up on purpose?

No, just on mobile so a pain.  Feel feee to paste.

[Glooble]

So, uh, there's no games running now. What a sad state of affairs. I believe silverspawn's needs four players, and mine needs eight.

[EFHW]

Espheni QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/uRyFtvPLJFnD

[pingpongsam]

My QT is basically just submitted night actions all of which were correctly mirrored here:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/598M8hFvX7p

[Galzria]

Well I was right about the Harnessed Children being shots -

Ash, did Faust releasing them do anything beyond removing shots from their shot pool? Was there any win conditions modified by the number of saved children?

[pingpongsam]

Thanks for the cool game, Ash.

[ashersky]

Well I was right about the Harnessed Children being shots -

Ash, did Faust releasing them do anything beyond removing shots from their shot pool? Was there any win conditions modified by the number of saved children?

Just removed shots.  No wincons regarding kids.  I did think about requiring a living kid for town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thank you, Ashersky! That was a ton of work and I appreciate your effort.

[jotheonah]

Thank you, Ashersky! That was a ton of work and I appreciate your effort.

+1

[ashersky]

Thanks everyone.  Sorry for the sudden ending, but I’m glad everyone enjoyed it.

This was always meant to be my final game, and I hoped it would be memorable.

Of course, the way this game played out has forced into being...a sequel...

For 13 players, the flavor continues...

[ashersky]

Years have passed...

The alien threat has been defeated.  Humankind is rebuilding, putting into place the familiar constructs: government, law, societal norms.  But with the familiar good comes the familiar bad.

What can we know about the entire universe?  What surety can there be of what remains...out there?  What about the things that never really left us at all?

Can the good win out over the evil?  Can the chosen few save an entire planet...again?

Can you?