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[Joshua]

Thank you very much for your work and your reply!

[Jeebus]

Finally finished version 8.0!

Complete Rules for Dominion and All Its Expansions

[Jeebus]

Finally a post that doesn't start with "finally"... D'oh!

Anyway: Already finished version 9.0!

Complete Rules for Dominion and All Its Expansions

[dz]

-There's a typo under Order of Masons. "you keep so mange cards"
-For Market Towns, I'm not sure why you're listing all the other start-of-Buy-phase Allies when you can only use 1 Ally per game. In my opinion, if anyone is playing with multiple Allies and is running into problems, that's their problem, not yours.
-I think Swashbuckler can mention something about using Order of Masons to leave cards in your discard pile after shuffling. Or spending coffers to avoid the Treasure Chest.
-Since Merchant has the Sauna/Catacombs/Innovation ruling, you can add a similar ruling to Cauldron (gain a Herb Gatherer as your third action, then play a Cauldron to give out a Curse).
-Sorcerer/Giant says that if they get no card, the player gets a Curse, which seems outdated? http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21240.msg891965#msg891965

Ofc it's up to you what you want to add. After all, I only add what I feel like adding to the wiki.

[Jeebus]

Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it!

-For Market Towns, I'm not sure why you're listing all the other start-of-Buy-phase Allies when you can only use 1 Ally per game. In my opinion, if anyone is playing with multiple Allies and is running into problems, that's their problem, not yours.

I listed all those there without thinking about the one-Ally rule. I wanted some place to list them all to refer to. It's technically correct, if somebody decided to play with two Allies, but I agree that it's better to change it so I moved it to another start-of-buy-phase (Arena).

-I think Swashbuckler can mention something about using Order of Masons to leave cards in your discard pile after shuffling. Or spending coffers to avoid the Treasure Chest.

Thanks, I added some of that.

-Since Merchant has the Sauna/Catacombs/Innovation ruling, you can add a similar ruling to Cauldron (gain a Herb Gatherer as your third action, then play a Cauldron to give out a Curse).

It's actually there, point 3 in the Cauldron entry (and point 3 in the Collection entry too). It's referred to without specifics along with several other similar when-gain interactions. The Merchant/Sauna thing is more detailed because it's kind of unique as an after-play thing.

But you made me realize that Cauldron and Collection can be played via Innovation just by gaining Courier, Herb Gatherer, Storyteller etc., so I added something about it. Cargo Ship, Tracker, Bauble and others can also be triggered like that, but it would fail since the gained card was already played by Innovation; so in those cases we need Way of the Mouse with Vassal to make this happen, or Architects' Guild, Haggler etc. gaining the Cargo Ship and playing it via Innovation (or more complex in the case of Treasures like Bauble).

-Sorcerer/Giant says that if they get no card, the player gets a Curse, which seems outdated? http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21240.msg891965#msg891965

I didn't take it that Donald changed that ruling (which is also in the rulebook) in that post.

[Jeebus]

Version 10 is up, updated for Plunder.

[Jeebus]

Version 10.1 is now up, which is updated for Cornucopia & Guilds Second Edition, the promo Marchland, and the 2023 errata of the 6 "extra turn" cards:

Complete Rules for Dominion and All Its Expansions

[Jeebus]

Version 11 is up, updated for Rising Sun.

[Karpeth]

Version 11 is up, updated for Rising Sun.

Fantastic!

There are a few typographical choices I was wondering if you are open to feedback on?

- page 3; promos column is very empty, and hard to read. Why not list them like the expansions? There’s also space to list the update packs.

- page 5; if emargo tokens is placed after VP tokens, there’s not an orphan line.

- page 8; there should be a comment on the fact that big-box comes with more treasure, but not as much as two sets. If I remember, dxv ruled ”play with all treasures availiable”.

- page 8-11; if you are open to listen the cards not in release order, or move promos to when they were released, there might be less orphan/widow/split sections in special setup.

- page 16; there’s second column fits in the first.

- page 26; i didn’t read the examples here, but it feels like either fewer (so no page 26) or more examples (less white-space) would be nice. If it’s out of scope, I understand.

-page38-39; there’s an orphan row that would resolve if the columnbreak on page 38 is removed.
-page 40; there’s a widow - end turn should be on next page.

-page 56-169; you suddenly treat everything as 1 section. I would have prefered page- and columnbreaks more often for fewer orphans and widows.

[Jeebus]

There are a few typographical choices I was wondering if you are open to feedback on?

Thanks for the feedback!
For every new version I have to redo the layout, and as you can imagine I don't want to take forever doing that (anymore), since inevitably there will be another version where the current layout often doesn't work anymore. (And updating the actual content takes so long now.)

- page 3; promos column is very empty, and hard to read. Why not list them like the expansions? There’s also space to list the update packs

This part was recently moved, I used to have everything on one page. So yes, it can be listed differently now, thanks.

- page 5; if emargo tokens is placed after VP tokens, there’s not an orphan line.

Good idea.

- page 8; there should be a comment on the fact that big-box comes with more treasure, but not as much as two sets. If I remember, dxv ruled ”play with all treasures availiable”.

Yeah, maybe. There are several different big boxes, and I don't know the contents of them all. Feels a little "beyond the scope", but if somebody could provide me with the information, I would add it.

- page 8-11; if you are open to listen the cards not in release order, or move promos to when they were released, there might be less orphan/widow/split sections in special setup.

I really think release order is best though.

- page 16; there’s second column fits in the first.

It's intentional, but it looks a bit better if it's further down the page than now (it kind of "belongs" to the next chapter).

- page 26; i didn’t read the examples here, but it feels like either fewer (so no page 26) or more examples (less white-space) would be nice. If it’s out of scope, I understand.

You should see version 10.0! It fit so perfectly! But I think I can break the previous sections differently so that "Lose track" takes up all of page 26.

-page38-39; there’s an orphan row that would resolve if the columnbreak on page 38 is removed.
-page 40; there’s a widow - end turn should be on next page.

I see that this section slipped through the cracks. I had planned to rework the layout a bit more.
Page 40 is a no-brainer. Page 39 is tough - I don't want to start a column with an indented dash, which would be the case if I remove the column break on page 38. In any case, the next version will probably have more text in each section, so I'll have to look at it again then.

-page 56-169; you suddenly treat everything as 1 section. I would have prefered page- and columnbreaks more often for fewer orphans and widows.

It adds three pages to the document. I'm not sure if that's worth it (some people print this thing). That section is a reference; you look up a card like in an encyclopedia. It doesn't feel like it needs to be broken per paragraph...

[Karpeth]

There are a few typographical choices I was wondering if you are open to feedback on?

Thanks for the feedback!
For every new version I have to redo the layout, and as you can imagine I don't want to take forever doing that (anymore), since inevitably there will be another version where the current layout often doesn't work anymore. (And updating the actual content takes so long now.)

- page 3; promos column is very empty, and hard to read. Why not list them like the expansions? There’s also space to list the update packs

This part was recently moved, I used to have everything on one page. So yes, it can be listed differently now, thanks.

- page 5; if emargo tokens is placed after VP tokens, there’s not an orphan line.

Good idea.

- page 8; there should be a comment on the fact that big-box comes with more treasure, but not as much as two sets. If I remember, dxv ruled ”play with all treasures availiable”.

Yeah, maybe. There are several different big boxes, and I don't know the contents of them all. Feels a little "beyond the scope", but if somebody could provide me with the information, I would add it.

Copper, Silver, and Gold: Use every copy you have of these (except Coppers players already have). To play with 5 or 6 players, use two full sets of Copper, Silver, and Gold. These are available in Base Cards or you can use two copies of Dominion.*

*The Dominion Big Box 2 includes 20 Copper, 30 Silver, and 18 Gold for 5-6 player games, but Donald X. Vaccarino has advised on numerous occasions that basic treasures are intended to be infinite.

- page 8-11; if you are open to listen the cards not in release order, or move promos to when they were released, there might be less orphan/widow/split sections in special setup.

I really think release order is best though.

[/quote]Moving promos to release order might help then?

- page 16; there’s second column fits in the first.

It's intentional, but it looks a bit better if it's further down the page than now (it kind of "belongs" to the next chapter).

If the document is typeset with latex, I would end the columns and vfill; that is push it to the bottom of the page, centered, if that's the reason.

- page 26; i didn’t read the examples here, but it feels like either fewer (so no page 26) or more examples (less white-space) would be nice. If it’s out of scope, I understand.

You should see version 10.0! It fit so perfectly! But I think I can break the previous sections differently so that "Lose track" takes up all of page 26.

-page38-39; there’s an orphan row that would resolve if the columnbreak on page 38 is removed.
-page 40; there’s a widow - end turn should be on next page.

I see that this section slipped through the cracks. I had planned to rework the layout a bit more.
Page 40 is a no-brainer. Page 39 is tough - I don't want to start a column with an indented dash, which would be the case if I remove the column break on page 38. In any case, the next version will probably have more text in each section, so I'll have to look at it again then.

- 38; Rewording from

―for the first time on your turn, until the player’s next turn: and ―for the first time each turn, until the player’s next turn:

to

―first time on your turn, until the player’s next turn: and ―first time each turn, until the player’s next turn:

should resolve the orphan then

-page 56-169; you suddenly treat everything as 1 section. I would have prefered page- and columnbreaks more often for fewer orphans and widows.

It adds three pages to the document. I'm not sure if that's worth it (some people print this thing). That section is a reference; you look up a card like in an encyclopedia. It doesn't feel like it needs to be broken per paragraph...

I don't care enough to argue here. If I were to print, I'd like more pages, tho.

I assume from your responses that you're taking it into account for v12 or 11.1, and that this is not enought for a 11.0.1?

Thanks for the hard work!

[Jeebus]

- page 8; there should be a comment on the fact that big-box comes with more treasure, but not as much as two sets. If I remember, dxv ruled ”play with all treasures availiable”.

Yeah, maybe. There are several different big boxes, and I don't know the contents of them all. Feels a little "beyond the scope", but if somebody could provide me with the information, I would add it.

Copper, Silver, and Gold: Use every copy you have of these (except Coppers players already have). To play with 5 or 6 players, use two full sets of Copper, Silver, and Gold. These are available in Base Cards or you can use two copies of Dominion.*

*The Dominion Big Box 2 includes 20 Copper, 30 Silver, and 18 Gold for 5-6 player games, but Donald X. Vaccarino has advised on numerous occasions that basic treasures are intended to be infinite.

I definitely don't want to say "treasures are intended to be infinite". There's a common misunderstanding that Treasures should never run out, so players even place trashed Coppers back in the Copper pile (I saw this just recently). As you know, the number of cards in Treasure piles matter.
I see that there are at least four "Big Boxes", and out of these only the English-language Big Box 2 has base cards: https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Big_Box
Maybe I'll mention something about this. I already have "It’s recommended to use more Coppers, Silvers and Golds", which is non-specific.

- page 16; there’s second column fits in the first.

It's intentional, but it looks a bit better if it's further down the page than now (it kind of "belongs" to the next chapter).

If the document is typeset with latex, I would end the columns and vfill; that is push it to the bottom of the page, centered, if that's the reason.

It's a good idea to center it.

- 38; Rewording from

―for the first time on your turn, until the player’s next turn: and ―for the first time each turn, until the player’s next turn:

to

―first time on your turn, until the player’s next turn: and ―first time each turn, until the player’s next turn:

should resolve the orphan then

That doesn't reduce the line count.

I assume from your responses that you're taking it into account for v12 or 11.1, and that this is not enought for a 11.0.1?

Yes, I don't want to release new versions all the time.

[Karpeth]

I believe neither document encompasses what I believe DXV has said.

In my collection, I have 14 starting hands prepared, as it’s ready to pick up for two 4-player games without shelters, or a 6-player with. As such, I only have 22 coppers, compared to the 32 ”intended”.

If I remeber correctly, I found several statements by DXV thru the years, where my setup is ok - as the gist was ”no matter the number of players, use all you have” as the treasures, while countable and can run out…

I mean, even 11 coppers (2 4-playergames) is plenty in most games.

I mean, The dutch budget edition even elimiates copper.

[Donald X.]

In my collection, I have 14 starting hands prepared, as it’s ready to pick up for two 4-player games without shelters, or a 6-player with. As such, I only have 22 coppers, compared to the 32 ”intended”.

If I remeber correctly, I found several statements by DXV thru the years, where my setup is ok - as the gist was ”no matter the number of players, use all you have” as the treasures, while countable and can run out…

I mean, even 11 coppers (2 4-playergames) is plenty in most games.

I mean, The dutch budget edition even elimiates copper.

IRL you can do whatever you like; I won't stop you or feel bad about it. For sure the game will tend to work without a Copper pile, hence that special version without one. There are some cards it matters for, but you could leave those out.

As to exactly what the rules say to do, man, I'm not checking, but in terms of intentions, the only way it diverges from "no really, play with all the Coppers that aren't in decks" is "damn what if they have the old standalone version of Intrigue and so have more Coppers, or they have Base Cards, do we tell them to count the Coppers, man we do not possibly, just play with all of them, it will be fine."