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[2.71828.....]

faust being scum isn't a foregone conclusion of mine by any means either

hedgy

Lets lynch Ichi tomorrow.

God. This is me countering WW's belief that I will think faust is scum no matter what because of my ego or something. Please tell me this is a joke, because considering how I've been accused of tunneling faust this entire game and overreacting to him, this is incredibly annoying.

I did read the quote in a vacuum.  And in a vacuum you have to admit it sounds hedgy.  But the part about lynching you was not serious.  If we do lynch you tomorrow it will be a new case on new evidence and all that.  I dont predetermine lynches a day out like you have to with your role.

[Witherweaver]

Hey, let's lynch e.  Best of all worlds.

If he's scum, town!Ichi doctors his target

If he's town, he becomes an IC, his role is confirmed.  Ichi's target is half attacked or whatever, but that also happens if we lynch anyone but me or Faust, neither of which I want to do.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, all that actually does is delay the issue.  If Joseph is indeed manipulative like Ash says, I do not want him manipulating any more results

[2.71828.....]

But Ichi's half-attack will happen no matter what.  Might as well lynch scum while that happens.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Um. It won't happen if we lynch scum today.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Scum out of one of WW, faust or e.

[2.71828.....]

Scum out of one of WW, faust or e.

none of whom are scum

[2.71828.....]

maybe faust

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah, we pretty much should lynch one of faust, Joseph, Ash. We still have like 2 days til deadline I think? We need to pick one of them to lynch before then. I'm inclined to pick faust because of my role...but I am open to the fact that I may be wrong about him. I'm having trouble seeing a scum narrative for either faust or Ash concerning how their claims conflict.

[Witherweaver]

But Ichi's half-attack will happen no matter what.  Might as well lynch scum while that happens.

Well, we don't know that you aren't scum.

[2.71828.....]

I'm having trouble seeing a scum narrative for either faust or Ash concerning how their claims conflict.

so vote for joseph

[Ichimaru Gin]

But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.

[2.71828.....]

But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.

Not if joseph is a manipulator.  Like Ashersky says.  And manipulated faust

[Witherweaver]

But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.

Not if joseph is a manipulator.  Like Ashersky says.  And manipulated faust

Um.. how?  Faust saw you get target by Limited Poisoner (or whatever).. you think Joseph can fabricate a rolename?  That would be a weird role.

[Ichimaru Gin]

But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.

Not if joseph is a manipulator.  Like Ashersky says.  And manipulated faust

Oh....k. That would be like incredibly devious and/or incredibly lucky, but I guess that's actually a real possibility. Ok.

So what, his role would give fake results to people? Like he can verbatim decide that faust sees you being targeted by a weak poisoner?

PPE: ninja'd!

[ashersky]

Vote: Joseph

[silverspawn]

mhpf. not a fan of this. I like lynching faust more than Joseph - Joseph has just defending himself all this time, faust has done way more, and will make a way better flip

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think Joseph's at only two votes. faust is definitely the better lynch and on closer examination e's explanation for both faust and Ash being town and Joseph being scum seems extremely unlikely.

[ashersky]

In the end, I'll vote for either, of course.  My stance on the two of them is clear.

[faust]

But if Joseph is scum, that means faust is as well, and lynching faust is good for my role.

Not if joseph is a manipulator.  Like Ashersky says.  And manipulated faust

Um.. how?  Faust saw you get target by Limited Poisoner (or whatever).. you think Joseph can fabricate a rolename?  That would be a weird role.

Uh... yeah. I certainly don't see there being a role whose sole purpose is to mess with my role.

[faust]

Look, I've been over and over and over this already, but for you, I'll do it once more.

What's the whole thing good for if he decides to unvote right after? You can't argue that he wanted t really bus me, he's just confused here. Inconsistency is a town tell, after all.

either for towncred, or he wasn't planing to unvote.

Well, that's too weak for me.

Really?! I mean, put yourself in my shoes. Ash has a result on one of my top townreads which I know is wrong. What do you expect me to do, say "oh well, but he's so townie, maybe Arch just sent him the wrong result?" Any townread I had on ash is completely nullified by this.

Even if the result is fake, why does ash have to be scum? Something could have messed with his result, or he could just be lying town. Neither of that seems unlikely enough to justify your behavior. And you usually have zero OMGUS in the way you play.

I count out lying town because ash isn't that stupid (had he lied, he wouldn't go on pursuing me). For SOMETHING to have messed with his result, someone must have lied about their role. Who, in your opinion, is that?

I already commented on this, but hey, here's me doing it again. I don't think the quitting was fake. Either he was genuinely frustrated (I hope not) or he thought replacing out would make his replacement seem super townie (true). I don't approve of that kind of play, but I know ash does.

I don't believe that until I see it. Are you basing this on the fact that he said something about gaining cards on purpose in soccer?

Pretty much. I think ash's asking for replacement was highly uncalled for, and I'd be baffled if he truly didn't want to play anymore because of that. Then again, I'm biased in the issue.

So I'm a good player, and ash isn't? Okay, so now we get to the point that bugs me the most. Yes, I'm a good player. So why? WHY do I do this? Just anwer me and TELL ME what's the scum narrative. I want to get me and my partner lynched? Because that sounds like a great plan. There is no scum narrative here, none. This is the one crucial question you need to answer if you really think my lynch is the best, and so far everyone has failed to do so.

The narrative is to keep Joseph alive - which looks (or at least looked) like it was going to work for quite a while. Yes, you tie yourself together, but that's completely fine for you, especially with Joseph killing two towns today.

Look. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Joseph and me are lying scum, in which case Joseph doesn't have a killing role (but a manipulative one), and what you say makes no sense. Or he's a poisoner, and town, in which case what you say makes no sense.

[faust]

And that #3 is the rub.

You have to think I barreled headlong into a situation where lying was 100% sure to be caught on purpose, whereas Faust ensured he was in a position to manipulate everyone and everything from a position of complete safety.

Why did I throw game if I'm scum?  Because Arch couldn't find a sub?

You did not throw the game. Obviously.

[faust]

And lastly, that Faust has been painting a picture of me as a cheating bastard is completely unfair and dirty, and has nothing to do with a game of mafia.  I would have, as a mod, warned him that he's breaking the civility pledge.

Why is it a personal attack?  It's well established on f.ds that threatening the quit/sub out is not fair play, no matter how you feel about it.  To say I'd purposefully do it anyway is to say ashersky the person, not ashersky the mafia games player, is so disrespectful to his fellow players and mods and friends that he'd do it anyway.

That is hurtful.  If you think I'm a lying bastard with no feelings, maybe that my fault.  But hopefully you can see why I don't want to play with you anymore.

I'm doing my best to just understand that you are scum and don't really mean it, and I need to just forgive and forget.  But it's hard sometimes.

I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. for me, there were only two options:

- you seriously wanted out after heating on a discussion. I did not do anything for you to be offended about (in my opinion). You didn't give me a chance to explain myself, you just said, quote, "fuck it", and went.
- you are scum using a replacement to appear townie.

As I'm sad to say, neither of these options puts you into a very good light for me. The latter would actually be more understandable for me.

[faust]

I feel so much better now that I have made a decision.  It is really awesome.  And I think it is the right decision.  Ashersky and Faust both claim different results about joseph.

The only way to truly clear this up is to see what Joseph truly is.  So lets lynch him.  And I think he will flip scum

Your decision is based on some insanely convoluted unlikely scenario. It's disregarding Occam's Razor completely. You should feel bad, not good.

[faust]

It freaks me out that nobody commented on this:

And I'd seriously doubt I could see a factional kill as a role action, to boot.

You "doubt"? Man, that is a really obvious scumslip. No way town!ashersky wouldn't have asked about this as soon as he read his role PM.

When you start making scum slip arguments, I know you are desperate.

Also, mod!arch wouldn't answer that question.

I mean, do you not think ash is lying scum here? Why not. Especially e. You believe Archetype wouldn't answer such a question for ash, but he would for me?