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[Ichimaru Gin]

*a weak argument.

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

[ashersky]

The button is interesting. Impossible to say whether it helps town or scum more on net, but I do think townies who are VT or possess weak powers should press it.

This is exactly right, and there needs not be more discussion.  It's up to you, reader.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

I think it's just as likely that scum weakly defends town for the credit as their own partners. I voted reinoe, but I also wanted to metion my reads of those defending him.

[Teproc]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

I don't understand what you're saying Teproc is misinterpreting.

When I say "you" I'm not just referring to Teproc. For some reason, people seem to think that I stated that across the board, defending other players is scummy--and that that's also my major reason for suspecting reinoe (hint: it's not).

PPE: Yes. I find the way that he was defended to be suspect. I think it was weak argument.

PPE: Ash. Thank you.

Wait, what ? Which is it ? First you say it was an argument but a weak one, then you agree with ash saying it wasn't argument againstreinoe but one against ADK and me ?

We are responding to an argument you made when voting for reinoe. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have made the argument.

You are manufacturing a strawman argument that I didn't make (defending someone is scummy), and then attacking that. I did not make that argument.

I don't see much evidence behind your defense of reinoe aside from WIFOM. You see his behavior as something that town would do, I disagree.

So did I "manufacture a strawman argument" or just responded to a weak argument you did make ?

PPE : 4

[Teproc]

Why would scum "subtly" defend town ? I see why scum would clearly defend town (whiteknighting) but why be subtle aboutit then, if you want people to remember that you were against a mislynch ?

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

I think it's just as likely that scum weakly defends town for the credit as their own partners. I voted reinoe, but I also wanted to metion my reads of those defending him.

Okay if that's what you were trying to say, fine, but you certainly can't fault people with interpreting it as you have written.

[Witherweaver]

Why would scum "subtly" defend town ? I see why scum would clearly defend town (whiteknighting) but why be subtle aboutit then, if you want people to remember that you were against a mislynch ?

Content padding.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This is exactly the sort of thread-clogging stuff we probably want to avoid. I apologize for my part in it.

PPE: WW. I agree.

[ashersky]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

If you want to parse it, I think the wording suggests that the "he" from right after the vote refers to "ashersky."  I think it would read:

"I'm with ash on this one.  vote: reinoe.  ash could be trying to frame reinoe, but I don't like the subtle defense non-ash-players have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK, for example).  I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners, obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment."

I think he missed the comma after partners in the last line and that he meant "I obviously am a firm believe that scum defends their partners" and NOT that the defense is done in an obvious manner.

[Witherweaver]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

PPE: That parsing just enforces my interpretation.. but anyway, let's not dwell on it as I don't think it's all that paramount.

[Teproc]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

I feel like there's a conclusion missing there.

[Witherweaver]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

I feel like there's a conclusion missing there.

I don't want to vote for him at the moment.  I was also steered away from it because a lot of other people jumped along on him very quickly, including XP, whom I don't have a great feeling about.

I was just sharing my thoughts.

[ashersky]

PPE: That parsing just enforces my interpretation.. but anyway, let's not dwell on it as I don't think it's all that paramount.

Last point on this from me: I think we disagree on his meaning (I think he was raising suspicions on the defenders while you think he was using the defenders as further evidence that reinoe is scummy).  Where we do agree is that the post itself is scummy.  I think subtly casting suspicions that way isn't towny.

That said, I'm not swayed to vote for him or anything.

[2.71828.....]

you guys should vote for xeiron

[Witherweaver]

you guys should vote for xeiron

Oh I forgot about that.. what was so wrong about his math post?  That it was essentially fluff?

[2.71828.....]

you guys should vote for xeiron

Oh I forgot about that.. what was so wrong about his math post?  That it was essentially fluff?

No, nothing has been wrong, per se, about his play.  He is just sliding under the radar without making any real commitments.  I know my first scum game that is how you guys nailed me.  I wanted to play the "cool and calm" guy who looked at everything and made an informed decision. 

I could see xeiron playing the same type of game.

[2.71828.....]

I was a little cooler about No Lynching, mostly because there are too many people in this game to keep track of, and cutting down on players, even town players, will probably help us focus.

I see Robz is IC again to make statements like this?

[xxpittip]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

[Witherweaver]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

For why?

[Teproc]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

[Robz888]

I was a little cooler about No Lynching, mostly because there are too many people in this game to keep track of, and cutting down on players, even town players, will probably help us focus.

I see Robz is IC again to make statements like this?

Pretty much.

[Witherweaver]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

The point here is that if scum were given fake claims, they wouldn't be given the things that go with those fake claims, like the neighborhood?

[Teproc]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

The point here is that if scum were given fake claims, they wouldn't be given the things that go with those fake claims, like the neighborhood?

Yep.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'd be willing to vote reinoe, but I'm leaning toward a gut vote: ADK All he's done this game is try to lynch me without really any basis.

Well you never responded to this:

I don't get what the point of ash's plan is.

vote: reinoe

So why vote reinoe?