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[Axxle]

Many major logical flaws in this post. Gonna point out the biggest ones.

Dude, this is just wrong. You're OMGUS attitude also makes me Vote: Faust. You are 100% scum.

So, two scenarios. Axxel is scum, or he's not.

So let's say he's town, then you and arch are scum. You're partners too, otherwise Arch. would have rolled with a kill on you.

If Arch was scum in this scenario, and not my partner, how would he know I was scum?

he doesn't, he just would want to mislynch you for the win

Arch: You know you're town, I'm guessing, which leaves us with Faust and Axxel being scum.

How is it you're thinking you're conf!town?

If arch is town he has to assume you're scum so dd's point is valid

I doubt that mafia or a SK had redirecting since WW had nexus. That's really a moot point either way. We can't prove anything. Logically, in most scenarios, you're scum.

"In most scenarios" now? I thought before you said I am 100% scum?

im sorry I brought it up

So let's say he's scum and you're not lying. Then he has to be a SK or mafia with arch. He can't be part of a three person mafia because of flavour.

So he's either partners with Arch or he's a SK.

He can't be partners with Arch. Arch would have rolled with his read on you and got you lynched. Plus, why would Axxel be the largest proponent of a two-person mafia team? That simply doesn't make sense, especially when the more general consensus was a SK. And why would Arch lie and then tell of his lie? This just doesn't seem like a true scenario.

As I said, Arch would be extremely suspicious for being alive. No way he could have just rolled with my lynch. Why he told of his lie? No idea, maybe he and Axxle had Daychat, and Axxle pointed out that this wasn't safe.

there have been a lot of strange kills.  Archetype could have just claimed using commuter AND using his investigation

So Axxel is the SK. Sweetness. That leaves mafia to you or arch. Again, if arch was mafia he would have just rolled on his read for you. Doesn't make much sense.

Why would he? If Arch was scum and there is opposing scum, he wants to lynch them today, not me.

There was no mafia kill

This is pretty flimsy. He could have said you killed Andrew, and you're honest about axxel. Then you'd be dead and his narrative still works.

I'm secure in this vote. Let's how this plays out.

Except for the part where it doesn't make any sense for scum!me to not kill Archetype.

except you're on a team

[Axxle]

But Faust, you did try and kill me. But I commuted.

Theory dead I guess.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Sorry!!!

Unvote!

[Axxle]

unvote

[Axxle]

Maybe a DD, Faust scum team? They didn't kill archetype since they could just accuse me and arch being a scum team? I don't know...

Remembering the nexus reminds me that normal games here mean something completely different so meh. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

[EFHW]

Axxle's interactions with WW and Teproc should make it obvious that he's their partner.

Have you explained this?  I don't know what interactions you are referring to.

[EFHW]

However, we should NOT go after the SK today. If we're wrong, there are 2 NKs and we lose for sure. At least by lynching axxel and getting a good idea of who is the SK we can have a chance to win.

This logic doesn't make sense. If we assume there is 1 mafia and 1 sk left and we mislynch, regardless of who we go for, we lose unless scum target each other, which they should since 1 sk, 1 mafia is going to cause them both to lose anyway.

If we assume 2 memebers of a second faction then we need to target them for the right lynch, otherwise we straight up lose.

Well, we know you're scum, so the question is lynch you or find the SK.

DD you aren't making sense here, I think.  If you believe faust's claim and that faust is town, then you should already be convinced that Axxle and Arch are the scum.  Or do you think scum!faust could be the human child telling the truth about Axxle?  And why do you assume Axxle would be human child and not SK, when it was clearly not a human child who nk'd Andrew?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.5:

Axxle (1):  faust

Not Voting (4):  EFHW, Arch, DD, Arch

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on June 16 at 7:00 p.m.

[EFHW]

I think now it's by far most likely that Axxle and DeDe are scum, with an outside chance of Archetype. We should lynch Axxle and see whether he flips SK or mafia/werewolf and continue from there sorting things out.

DD and Archetype cannot both be the scum b/c then you would not be reporting your finding on Axxle.

[Delirious Deleuze]

However, we should NOT go after the SK today. If we're wrong, there are 2 NKs and we lose for sure. At least by lynching axxel and getting a good idea of who is the SK we can have a chance to win.

This logic doesn't make sense. If we assume there is 1 mafia and 1 sk left and we mislynch, regardless of who we go for, we lose unless scum target each other, which they should since 1 sk, 1 mafia is going to cause them both to lose anyway.

If we assume 2 memebers of a second faction then we need to target them for the right lynch, otherwise we straight up lose.

Well, we know you're scum, so the question is lynch you or find the SK.

DD you aren't making sense here, I think.  If you believe faust's claim and that faust is town, then you should already be convinced that Axxle and Arch are the scum.  Or do you think scum!faust could be the human child telling the truth about Axxle?  And why do you assume Axxle would be human child and not SK, when it was clearly not a human child who nk'd Andrew?

No you're right. That's why I changed what I think.

I think it's mafia!faust SK!axxel

[Archetype]

Man, ok.

I think both Axxke and Faust are scum. I don't really who is what or whatever because I know I'm Town, DD is town, and EFHW is town. That means Faust and Axxle have to be scum.

I don't really care what order, but I think lynching Faust first will solidify whether or not DD really is Town.

Ranked from most likely to least likely...
If Faust is a Human Child, Axxle has to be SK.
If Faust is a second scum team, I'll need to rethink DD
If faust is SK, DD is scum 
If Faust is Town, well, I have no idea

[Axxle]

Vote: Faust

For me that still makes the most sense.

[Delirious Deleuze]

I agree, but EFHW and Arch should be the other two. Just so arch can use his power. I don't want to rely just on logic.

[Archetype]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.6:

Axxle (1):  faust
faust (1):  Axxle

Not Voting (4):  EFHW, Arch, DD

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on June 16 at 7:00 p.m.

[Delirious Deleuze]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

For sure, but why?

Vote: Faust.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.7:

Axxle (1):  faust
faust (2):  Axxle, DD

Not Voting (2):  EFHW, Arch

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on June 16 at 7:00 p.m.

[Axxle]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

unvote it think is what you want?

[Delirious Deleuze]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

I'm still confused. You power, as you described it, should work the same no matter whose on the wagon

[Archetype]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

For sure, but why?

Vote: Faust.

If its me/EFHW/DD, I can investigate DD. However, since I think Axxle is most likely a SK, he could have some sort of Investigation Immunity. Minor thing, but could be problomatic if its true.

[Delirious Deleuze]

I would like you to be the 3rd voter, DD, if Axxle wouldn't mind.

For sure, but why?

Vote: Faust.

If its me/EFHW/DD, I can investigate DD. However, since I think Axxle is most likely a SK, he could have some sort of Investigation Immunity. Minor thing, but could be problomatic if its true.

Oh okay cool

[EFHW]

Why is DD town?

[Archetype]

In the back of my mind I've been having this nagging feeling that there really are two scum teams. Nothing really else to talk about until EFHW arrives, so I'll share it to get others' thoughts.

Let's say I'm ash and I want to design a multiball game. Assuming 2 2-man teams, 4 scum is a lot of scum for Town to lynch and there's no guarantee that scum will hit each other. To combat both these problems, ash includes 2 ICs. Now scum have 2 less people to worry about being the other team and town have 2 less people to worry about mislynching. With the houses, this creates a cool feeling where if each member is in a different house, they have no idea what's going on in the 3rd house. This makes generally town items useful for scum (and explains the first spying item). It makes yuma's power better (more likely to hit scum) and makes my power much weaker when I investigate a large group of unknowns. It also explains the weird kills.

The thing that may debunk this theory is the Andrew kill. If there are 2 2-man scum teams, why would one shoot try to shoot for the other when it's likely they're all dead?

I still think faust is scum. I'll probably still reread just to make sure an Axxle/DD pairing isn't possible.

[Archetype]

Why is DD town?

I feel like I've explained this a lot.

To reply to Axxle...

DeDe has both Teproc and WW as town reads. Not sure if scum would do that.

Then WW tries to start a wagon on mail-mi short before deadline. Knowing that the main lynch alternative is joth (hence town), I don't think mail-mi is his partner. Teproc switches on this wagon later on.

D2 doesn't give much, but I think DeDe's and Andrew's reactions to Robz' claim were on the scummier side.

D3, there's this: DeDe apparently forgetting that there is a Janitor. I think it's genuine, which would mean that DeDe is not Teproc's partner. Then, DeDe has his turn on WW, which at the time I found scummy, but knowing that WW is scum, it looks better.
ad to choose someone for the WW kill, it would likely be Andrew, but then again, would SK!Andrew makes such an obvious move?

I agree with the majority of this by Faust. I disagree with the "putting both Teproc and WW as Townreads means he's not their partner". This is DD's 2nd (?) game and I could see him putting them both as Townreads as newbie scum.

There's also a couple of QT things that I will not be disclosing (unless EFHW asks me to).

Recently, he's seemed a bit confused. Which I find towny.

[faust]

Why is DD town?

I feel like I've explained this a lot.

To reply to Axxle...

DeDe has both Teproc and WW as town reads. Not sure if scum would do that.

Then WW tries to start a wagon on mail-mi short before deadline. Knowing that the main lynch alternative is joth (hence town), I don't think mail-mi is his partner. Teproc switches on this wagon later on.

D2 doesn't give much, but I think DeDe's and Andrew's reactions to Robz' claim were on the scummier side.

D3, there's this: DeDe apparently forgetting that there is a Janitor. I think it's genuine, which would mean that DeDe is not Teproc's partner. Then, DeDe has his turn on WW, which at the time I found scummy, but knowing that WW is scum, it looks better.
ad to choose someone for the WW kill, it would likely be Andrew, but then again, would SK!Andrew makes such an obvious move?

I agree with the majority of this by Faust. I disagree with the "putting both Teproc and WW as Townreads means he's not their partner". This is DD's 2nd (?) game and I could see him putting them both as Townreads as newbie scum.

There's also a couple of QT things that I will not be disclosing (unless EFHW asks me to).

Recently, he's seemed a bit confused. Which I find towny.

Err... this doesn't explain your read at all. And he's not confused recently, he's jumping every wagon he sees to get a lynch trough before people start considering him. Let's try something else: Why am I scum?