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Dominion General Discussion / Re: What if the Base Set was released last?
« on: October 13, 2013, 03:27:15 pm »
It might help to actually read something before you respond to it:

That's nonsense, especially when different price points are concerned, but even at the same price point: opening Ironmonger over Scout is better 100% of the time.

And no, there are no exceptions to this.

Moreover, pointing out that there are always edge cases to anything is not only flat out wrong, it's also very annoying to people who just want to have a sensible discussion. It's like pointing out grammatical errors in the banter of your friends when you're having beer.

If you open Scout or Ironmonger and Warehouse, and the top 3 cards of your deck are all estates, then you'll have one more card to discard to Warehouse, and then you'll hit $6 instead of $5.

Game Reports / Re: Butcher/Duchy is better than Workshop/Gardens
« on: October 10, 2013, 04:37:44 pm »
Workshop/Gardens is the original basic rush deck, but it SUCKS! Seriously, it is not very good. It is an awfully slow "rush". All sorts of basic money based strategies can beat it, any sort of decent combo or engine should win easily. I would guess that if your opponent steals your Gardens with Butcher and then builds into Provinces he would beat you by a wider margin than with the Duchy thing, though I'm not sure.
With this thread in mind, when I stumbled upon a board that had workshop/gardens I intentionally avoided gardens to see if I could build a successful engine to get enough provinces to beat the 8 gardens that my opponent got.  I managed to use a workshop to build a village/smithy/remodel engine that worked nicely for the win.  It was pretty close in the end, mostly because my opponent ended the game by piling out on estates early while behind.  I would have been able to build a comfortable lead had he not piled out to end the game losing.

While my opponent may not have played workshop/gardens to its greatest potential, this game still proved to me what Mic Q stated, workshop/gardens is a pretty lousy combo

(I am the guest-I was playing at work (slow day) and didn't know if I would have to leave the game for some reason and resign so I played as a guest)

Your opponent did play quite sub-optimally.  Only 4 workshops?

I suspect Observatory/Fortress is pretty good.

Is there a TFB that doesn't make Fortress awesome though?  ;)


I don't count that as TfB because it doesn't give a benefit depending on cost. Spice Merchant isn't a TfB either.



Dominion General Discussion / Re: What to buy for $3?
« on: October 07, 2013, 11:20:14 pm »
Embargo Colonies, maybe something else, and go Explorer - Feodum.  At least, it'd be the most fun :D

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Next Featured Article - you decide!
« on: October 06, 2013, 08:07:27 pm »
I nominate the Scrying Pool article!  Very insightful!

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Dominion moments 2013
« on: September 24, 2013, 01:46:18 pm »
My Hail Mary Pass of the year.

My opponent has 4 Provinces, 4 Duchies and 3 Estates.
I only have 3 Provinces, 4 Duchies and 3 Estates.
So there's just 1 Province left and 2 Estates.

If we both buy an Estate and I'm able to get the last Province, we just tie.
But that's boring.

So I'm taking a chance, I just played Tactician and got a clean reshuffle in, so what the heck?
I buy a Curse! And an Estate of course. My opponent obliges and gets the last Estate.

Then the magic happens: on my Tactician turn, I'm able to pass him the Curse, get the last Province and win by 1 point!

Here's the log:

Why didn't you just Junk Dealer the Silver and then buy both estates?

Going through the ones that seem interesting.
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.

Ok, so basically trash an estate gain a silver; or trash a gold, gain a province.  I don't think Duchy->Gold is useful that often, and silver-->Province has it's uses, but is still nichey.  Don't like the variable VP because I have so rarely seen 4 different Victory cards in the trash.  But if you manage that, it's a duchy, I suppose.  Overall, eh.

Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.
Really, really hard counter to Militia.  Other than that it's really strong with Oasis, as it basically turns Oasis into Junk Dealer.  Don't like the swinginess.

Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.
So kind of like a Golem that only goes for one card, and lets you kind of procession it or put it in your hand.  Seems alright.  Bottom is similar to catacombs and I'm betting the "not a Tribal Man" is so that it doesn't autopile on $5 + Watchtower.  Don't know how much the Spoils adds to the power, but without it it seems a touch weak.  Maybe balanced because of the spoils.

Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Treasure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)
Seems way way too strong.  Disciple is very quickly a terminal silver, and often a terminal gold.  Then Savior basically gives you the strongest card not in your draw pile, and can be a one time KC. 

Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 Action. Each other player with 3 or more cards in hand reveals his hand and discards the card with the highest cost in coins (you choose in a tie). If he discarded a Victory card, he gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
Seems almost strictly worse than Pillage?  I mean it does stack to play it twice, but I don't think I'd like the Victory card part because then I don't really get the discard part.  Plus it wrecks your own turn more.

Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
Cellar variant?  Seems strong.  This in a 5 card hand, with say 1 action card, lets you get a 9 card hand?  That's Mad(man).

Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copy of it (you get 2 copies total).
Seems too swingy and generally unfun.  I think.

Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
Seems really weak and swingy.  Trashing an Action to give a Ruins is likely not a good idea unless that action is ruins, and that's kind of like Ambassador except worse and while Amb is strong it is still a $3 card.  Trashing a copper for a Spoils is meh, it gives you $1 less this hand, gives you $2 more next shuffle, and then one card less after that.  Seems week for using as a trasher.  Trashing an estate to give a curse is obviously the strong part, but you only have 3 estates so matching them up is very difficult unless you have an engine, in which case you probably already trashed the estates.  So it sounds interesting, but not balanced.

Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.
So either trash a card, +$2, or (if you're smart about it) "Seahag" +$2.  Don't like it.

Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)
This is so so so close to being strictly better than Explorer.

Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2 and gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile.
Anti scaling trash for benefit cards are generally not a great idea.  You already get the benefit of getting rid of the Copper / Curse / Estate.  So I don't like this.  Especially because it isn't restricted to one type of junk.

Iron Maiden
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card. If it is an…
Action card, he gains a Copper; Treasure card, he gains a Ruins; Victory card, he gains a Curse. He puts the gained card into his hand.

When you trash this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand.
Seems way too strong.  Treasure is >> Cutpurse.  Victory >> quite a few cursers.  Action >> Militia unless it's a ruins.  The trash does go into their hand, and they can discard curses free, but it still seems to strong.

Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each player (including you) may discard a Treasure. If he does, he puts his deck into his discard pile and immediately reshuffles. Each other player gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, look through your discard pile. You may trash up to 2 cards from your discard pile or hand.

Clarification: Each other player gaining a Ruins is not contingent on whether or not he discards; it just always happens after the discard and shuffling effects.
Super super super strong.  +$2, +2 Buys would be boring but only semi weak at $4.  This also has a good reaction and is a Ruin giver.

Charter (B)
Types: Treasure – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
Way way way too good.

Street Sweeper
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Trash a card.

When you trash this, gain a Ruins.
Way way way too strong.  Lab with Upgrade (yeah I know it's not but it is for estates and coppers effectively)

Dominion Articles / Re: Musings about Taxman
« on: September 23, 2013, 10:18:02 am »
It's amazing with Fools Gold. And probably nice with Courtyard, as you may use your weak turns to get some.

I would add comparisons to Beaurocrat, and, obviously, mine.

How does it compare with yours?

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 21, 2013, 01:55:31 pm »
And to finish the triple post:

$3 Action-Victory
Worth 1 VP
Chose 1: +2 Cards; or +1 Action.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 21, 2013, 01:54:15 pm »
Time Lord
$3+ Action
Name a card. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Trash the matches. Put the rest back on top in any order.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, look at the top card of your deck; trash it, discard it, or put it back.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 21, 2013, 01:51:48 pm »
$8* Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
During your Buy phase, this costs $2 less per piece of clothing you remove, but not less than $0

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 21, 2013, 01:12:18 am »
You may kiss your opponent on your left.  If you do, + 1 Card, +1 Action.  If (s)he reciprocates, +1 Card, +$1.

This is probably the most political card I've ever seen.

Noooo it's the highest skill card ever created.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 20, 2013, 11:26:00 pm »
You may kiss your opponent on your left.  If you do, + 1 Card, +1 Action.  If (s)he reciprocates, +1 Card, +$1.

Quote from: Powerman
Ring Leader
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+2 Cards.
When you buy or play this, each player (including you) reveals the top 4 card of his deck, discards one that you choose, and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.

Well, this was my card.  As WW pointed out, at $3 this is almost certainly too strong.  I do really like the mechanic however, so which of the following would keep the "feel" of the card while making it less OP.

A) Raising the price to $4 or $5
B) Eliminating the +2 Cards
C) Reducing the card space to 3 cards
D) Other (please specify!)


Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: September 17, 2013, 10:48:02 am »
$1 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may look at the Rules of Dominion.

Dominion Articles / Re: Plaza
« on: September 17, 2013, 10:46:52 am »
I like Salvager as a trasher for Plaza -- Clears out the the estates which really hurt and gives a +Buy.

Dominion Articles / Re: Journeyman
« on: September 16, 2013, 10:44:57 am »
What is Swindler most likely to hit?  Copper.  Those turn into Curses, which offers no more variety than a Curser.  In most kingdoms, there will be 1-3 cards of each cost, and most of them will be, if not essential, then not necessarily undesirable.  $5s can be turned into Duchies, yes, and Potions, when in the game, are certainly a danger, but that's still not that high, and Swindler needs to hit them in the first place.  And keep in mind that Journeyman dislikes "bad" variety much more than "neutral" or "good" variety.

This entire post is a bit of a non sequitur. I can guarantee you that if you play a Swindler-in-an-engine game or a slog against 2 other opponents, your deck will go to shit, whether or not you subscribe to Copper-trashing rhetoric.

What?  This isn't like, some obscure ideological tenet I'm spouting.  I'm describing what Swindler generally does to a deck.  That is not a non sequitur.  I was putting forth how Swindler is not as reliable a deck junker as a Looter.  Yes, Swindler can turn your Journeymen into Duchies, but you're not going to have a high concentration of them in your deck.  In Big Money, there will be far more Silvers and Golds, both of which are normally Swindled into themselves (Silver sometimes into a Swindler).  In engines, engine parts will often also have to be Swindled into themselves.  Swindler hits Border Village?  What do you do, give them a Gold, or another Border Village (and another engine part along with it)?  I've played enough with Swindler to know from experience that the amount of damage it can do is very very kingdom-dependent, which is pretty much the definition of not reliable, unlike Looters.

tl;dr: Looters are guaranteed to provide "bad" junk variety, Swindler, while still providing junk (not denying that), does not reliably provide junk variety.

Gold yes, but there is very normally another $3 worse than silver for a BM-ish deck.  Adding a woodcutter / chancellor / develop / oracle / black market / etc. as a replacement for silver will hurt journeyman-bm a lot.

14 votes:
Quote from: Powerman
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

So, it looks like my card was (generally) well received.  As many of you so rightly pointed out, it is Rebuild for treasures (or kind of cantrip Mine).  But that is so much weaker than Rebuild, it got a +1 Card.  I then added putting it on top of your deck so you see the new treasure sooner, and put in the optional copper gain because it A) fits thematically and B) it is a drawback that I think is very very interesting.  I was debating between $5 and $6, but ultimately went with $6 because this outclasses (IMO) Mine by quite a bit.  Some people thought that this could cost $4 or $5, while some thought this was too strong even at $6.

Any suggestions on improving it?

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Dominion CONTEST
« on: September 06, 2013, 10:12:15 pm »
$3 Action
+1 Action
Name 3 cards (your choices may be the same).  Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck.  If the 3 cards you named match the 3 revealed, put them into your hand.  If not, discard them.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: New Dominion CONTEST
« on: August 31, 2013, 01:09:02 pm »
$4 Victory
Worth 2 VP
When you trash this, +2VP.

the order was reversed, the mountebank game was the first. but SCSN actually got lucky with mountebank, he only got hit like 1 of 3 times and he also drew better in the first 2 turns. also, i went for potions, which was just bad decision making. that's why i think the other game is more significant, becuase here we had similiar luck and went for similar strategies. and that game was incredibly close, both of our decks were small and the game snowballed once he got followers, and i actually bought the province earlier then him but drew it later.

You may think it's "luck", but the deck contents has something to do with it. You got your Province a turn earlier, but you got it in a deck of 18 cards, of which 11 don't draw. He got his in a deck with only 14 cards, including only 5 which didn't draw. He was practically guaranteed to line up the Province right away, while you would have had to be lucky to do so.

fair enough. but i also could've had the province several turns earlier with a little bit of luck. and again, he has a 6,5k rating (and 4* as many games as me), i used to have a 6k rating, then stopped playing and now have 5,5k rating. that's a gigantic difference. he is a lot better at the game, so i probably did a lot more mistakes executing the dual lookouts than he did executing his dual amb.

but analysing our game is definitely a legit way to go. i would have to go over the second game in detail to determain how much of it is superior skill and how much of it is superior strength of ambassador

I think the main reason he's a lot better is because he knows Ambassador is better than Lookout, tbh.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: WW's Power Rankings
« on: August 20, 2013, 06:35:24 pm »
Masquerade, Ambassador, Steward - 1,2,3... HUH?

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: August 20, 2013, 10:53:30 am »
$6 Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  Each opponent gains a copy of the trashed card.

Hunting Party or Menagerie.

Dominion Articles / Re: Candlestick Maker/Plaza + Double Tactician
« on: August 19, 2013, 03:25:26 pm »
I don't think Herald can activate 2 Tacticians like Golem can - it only plays a single action.
If you overpay for Herald, you can put your Tac on top of your deck to ensure your double-Tac chain continues, but that requires buying a lot of Heralds (need more $ and +buy to get what you want and overpay Herald).
I would think Herald + Tac would be a nombo for those instances where you play Herald and discard your hand prematurely. I guess you could always play the Herald last, but I don't see the value it is providing for you at that point.

That's why it's TR-Herald.  Herald draws one, looks at Tac, discards hand.  Herald is played again, draws a card, etc.

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