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Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 12:50:59 pm »
Oh no, if we apply the Witherweaver-Is-Always-Wrong axiom, that screws up everything.
Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gain, there's no card to dole out.
Messenger doesn't actually say "depending on it", just "and". Ironworks has an if/then chart....
Which is shorthand for "if the card you gained with Ironworks is an..." Which is another way of saying "do something depending on what you gain".
Yes, that's what Ironworks says and means. My point though it that Messenger has no "if". It has an "and".
So if we accept the Clintonian assertion that:yes, both messenger and ironworks hinge on what the meaning of "it" is. For ironworks, the ruling was that the "it" is the card ironworks tried to gain; since it wasn't gained, ironworks fizzles. Seems clear that "it" should mean the same thing on both cards.and "it" means the card that Messenger tried to gain, would not each other player gain a copy of that "it"?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. You are correct.
To me, that suggests simultaneity. Which would mean if you chose to gain a Curse, and revealed Trader, you'd get a Silver, and everyone else would get a Curse.
Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gains, there's nothing to dole out. Got it.
EDIT: Ah, but maybe the dispositive point is the 'would gain' clause on Trader: since you never gained the card Messenger tried to gain, there's no card to dole out.
Messenger doesn't actually say "depending on it", just "and". Ironworks has an if/then chart....
Which is shorthand for "if the card you gained with Ironworks is an..." Which is another way of saying "do something depending on what you gain".
yes, both messenger and ironworks hinge on what the meaning of "it" is. For ironworks, the ruling was that the "it" is the card ironworks tried to gain; since it wasn't gained, ironworks fizzles. Seems clear that "it" should mean the same thing on both cards.and "it" means the card that Messenger tried to gain, would not each other player gain a copy of that "it"?
I assume this card has a quite interesting depth of openings, in that cards that you don't want multiples of become worse. Especially for player one.
Messenger/trader, what happens (i.e. I take a curse and reveal trader to take a silver)? My feeling is no one gains anything ( except I gain the silver ).
Yes, for the same reason Trader-ing an Ironworks gain doesn't give you a bonus. Ironworks and Messenger both say "gain a card, do something depending on it" not "choose a card, gain it, etc".
"Next hand" means what you draw during your Cleanup phase?In which case Militia would really spoil your Expedition?
What's the German word for "Douchebag"?
Google suggests "dummkopf", but I'm not quite sure that captures quite the correct meaning.
Amulet:
Okay, I'm going to go a bit soap-box-y here first. Mic often talks about how people don't realize that lots of Dominion cards are swingy, it's the nature of the game. He is absolutely right. How many of you saw this card and though "Wow, that's really swingy". It IS incredibly swingy. Let's assume I opened with this card, intending to get some fast trashing (which I believe you very often will). If I draw it on turn 3 (5/12 chance), then by my second reshuffle (between turns 4 and 5), I will have trashed two cards, and this will be waiting for me to play again in the next shuffle. Getting it turn 5 (2/12 chance) sucks, I haven't gotten to play it at all - this is true of all cards. Getting it turn 4(5/12 chance) is probably a bit better than turn 5, but not tons - and it is WAY worse than turn 3.
What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
I love your succinct explanation. But words often mean more than one thing, and this is a different meaning of Verklärung. As any bassoonist knows, Tod und Verklärung is Death and Transfiguration, and transfiguration is a certainly change of state, though a spiritual rather than grotesque one.
I have never heard this word used in any other way, but to be fair I haven't heard it used much at all.
Well, the piece is 100 years old, so the usage may well be as well. And it's true people don't tend to walk around saying, "Gee, I'm sure feeling transfigured today!"What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
I love your succinct explanation. But words often mean more than one thing, and this is a different meaning of Verklärung. As any bassoonist knows, Tod und Verklärung is Death and Transfiguration, and transfiguration is a certainly change of state, though a spiritual rather than grotesque one.
I have never heard this word used in any other way, but to be fair I haven't heard it used much at all.
What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.
No. Verklärung is when you tell people that something is better than it looks, or not as bad as it sounds. It doesn't actually change things.
What about Verklärung for a German translation? I'm in an orchestra playing Strauss's Tod und Verklärung at the moment.At this very moment?! Cool. Are you a brass player? [who notoriously have books open on their stands during long rests in performances] Hope the conductor can't see your iPad.
Just to clarify:
If I Throne Room Guide, I do not get two chances to mulligan on my next turn? Because there's still only one copy to call?
Additionally, I'm just curious what you have at stake in this argument. It seems sillier than most that I read about on these forums.It's just something the internet does to people. Someone says something wrong and you feel compelled to correct them. What if someone believed them? Then they treat what you said the same way and pretty soon you're having a futile argument in what should be a delightful preview thread.
You have already accomplished the most difficult half of solving the problem - becoming aware of it.
Please allow me to provide you with some unsolicited advice: just let it go.
While some arguments can be fun, this one clearly has gone sour for everybody involved.
The trick I use is: as soon as I feel the urge to repeat a point I already made, just don't do it. It's time for reflection instead.
The reward (not being in a silly argument yourself) vastly outweighs the cost (someone you barely know might continue to think you're wrong).
And sometimes the reflection leads to the insight that I was wrong myself and excuses can solve the problem altogether.
I still don't get it...
What does "Pay all your $" mean?
Let's say I play a Treasury, then a Storyteller, and play a Venture (which drew a Gold) and a Bank as part of the storyteller. How many cards do I draw from the Storyteller?
The Treasury gave me +$1, the Storyteller gave me +$1, and the Venture gave me +$1, the Gold gave me +$3, and the Bank gave me +$3. That's a total of $9.
So I draw 9 cards, and have 11 in hand with 1 action left to play.
Does that example help?
(Edited to fix brain-fart over how much a Gold gave)
In that case, you get the 9 cards (to continue your action phase) but not the $9 for the buy phase, don't you?
That's the meaning of "Pay all you $"?
Beetroot to the one you love, always.I swear I was going to post this, but you beet me to it.Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
Anyway, sorry about the Erroneous Bosch.
I cannot believe this only scored a +1. Clearly the best beetroot soup related pun I have ever heard.
All of you are being so silly. Who is actually getting upset about taking avatars? I protest this protesting by taking an avatar someone already has.
No one was getting upset though, that's the funny thing. Its people getting upset on behalf of other people might get upset.
Well, as I seem to recall Donald XV pointing out in the card preview, sometimes a Sage just gets you... another Sage.Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
Anyway, sorry about the Erroneous Bosch.
Every time I look at one of your posts, I think "Weird, I didn't write that!" because you have the same avatar as me. I identify with that avatar - it is exactly my writing pose. I demand you change it immediately!
I am joking or am I?, you can keep it. You better change it, though.
Aw, man, you haven't lived.I hear Donald is a massive Bosch fan.You misheard - it's borscht. And it's not true, in fact I don't think I've ever had borscht.
Not sure if that means he is into his Renaissance Dutch artist, or just a big fan of power tools.
"Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz"
Dude, seriously. Cut it with the spoilers.
Do not trust anything Delita says! He's been a sociopath ever since his sister was murdered at the hands of the nobility.
P.S.: jsh, you should change your avatar back to that trustworthy thief you used to have.
I have to stay with the times, man. Changing avatars is the hip thing now.
Also it was a bard.