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[Dylan32]

faust said arc goals would be consistent with wincon. So shouldn't Awaclus have been offered a new goal if he chose scum?

Also, sid Awaclus need to say anything? I'll have to check later.

To your second question, yeah the flavor text pretty was straightforward in saying that Awaclus stabbed math, so regardless of what really happened, jumping out in front of it and providing the explanation first would probably have been seen as necessary for anyone in that spot.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.3

ashersky (2): ashersky, scolapasta
scolapasta (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, LaLight, Dylan32, A Drowned Kernel, Swowl, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends April 03, 2021, 06:00:00 am.

[ashersky]

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Awaclus is more likely to be a Cylon than you. Who are you voting?

Why is Awaclus more likely to be Cylon?  He didn't claim anything Cylon, right?

I have an actual result, imperfect as it may be.

[MiX]

I clearly think town Cylons can/will become mafia.  I'm trying to exile one.

Awaclus is more likely to be a Cylon than you. Who are you voting?

Why is Awaclus more likely to be Cylon?  He didn't claim anything Cylon, right?

I have an actual result, imperfect as it may be.

Well, the alignment-turning thing he claimed makes much more sense for a cylon.

The result...should be ignored, really.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

[Awaclus]

I'll disagree with this. I think anyone trying to be deceptive (which scum has to) has to worry more about creating a cohesive story, and that entails more risk.

No it doesn't. You can create a cohesive story by posting as little as possible. The less you write, the fewer chances you have to make mistakes. It is not even remotely necessary for scum to do what ash is doing here just in hopes of getting some reverse-psychology towncred and ash is not stupid enough to think it is.

I think this gets to my point - if the choice were balanced enough, then why does the "lesser" option offer fewer points, and so many at that? I could imagine 4 instead of 5, or that staying as town would lose points. Also because I think the game design would be more interesting that way. You'd have to sell why you chose the option that gave you fewer points. If the the choice were truly as you say, it's an easy sell, as witnessed by the fact that I seem to be the only one suspicious of this.

I don't know, but here are some possible explanations:

• my arc is a lot easier to complete as scum, it's possible as town and not guaranteed as scum but it's a huge difference, so maybe it's there to compensate for that
• maybe the event was not scripted to happen on D1 but e.g. a day power did something that triggered it, in which case the design of the mechanic was not tailored for the situation in which it happened, making this discussion completely pointless
• maybe the purpose of the legacy points is not to measure your in-game performance by giving you more points for things that are more difficult, but something else (e.g. flavor related), in which case this discussion is also completely pointless
• perhaps faust misjudged how balanced the choice would be
• perhaps I misjudged how balanced it was

[scolapasta]

OK, I'm ready to jump aboard the:

Vote: ash

wagon. I'm also ready to switch to Awaclus, based on everything I've said, but mostly want to avoid getting too late in the day and the crickets like we had D1. We don't haver the advantage of a Curfew to scare scum away from a NK. (assuming that it was that, and they weren't just blocked or stopped).

please give me a reason either of those people are skum. no sarcasm. everyone is talking, me included, about why they are not skum. why do you think they are?

Well, I wouldn't say "everyone"; there are a number of players who are either not posting or if they do, it's purely mechanical. But yes, those that are more engaged seem to lean on their not being scum.

Note, I don't actually think ash is currently scum. I did toss out one of my crazy "keyser soze" suggestions as something to consider, but in this game at least, I think it's not likely. (you or all players now that I tend to think this way - I have suspected you of this before and been wrong. I did also try it in that scum game too, of course, but that almost backfired horribly as you saw right though it)

Awaclus on the other hand I do suspect. Unlike ash, who had no reason to get detected / risk this hail mary, Awaclus was forced into having to explain his incapacitating of math dude. Yes, there's a chance his story is true, but there's also a chance that it's a lie hidden among truths, and I think the latter seems more likely to me, based on reasons I've posted a few times now.

But even if that is wrong... I do think that they are both more likely than not to be Cylons. And I think that at least one town aligned cylon will convert to scum somehow / somewhen.

If I had a better scum read, I'd be happy to go for that. I'm fairly close to just voting one of these lurkers again, as I think their not posting is anti town. But for now, except for that reason, I'm struggling to read anyone else as scummy, so am defaulting to my thought that a Cylon will betray us at some point.

Why ahs over awaclus, then? honestly, because no one else seems to think Awaclus is scum, so that seems like a wasted vote. If someone else vote awaclus, I'd switch instantly since that's my preference of the two.

[scolapasta]

I'll disagree with this. I think anyone trying to be deceptive (which scum has to) has to worry more about creating a cohesive story, and that entails more risk.

No it doesn't. You can create a cohesive story by posting as little as possible. The less you write, the fewer chances you have to make mistakes. It is not even remotely necessary for scum to do what ash is doing here just in hopes of getting some reverse-psychology towncred and ash is not stupid enough to think it is.

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

I think this gets to my point - if the choice were balanced enough, then why does the "lesser" option offer fewer points, and so many at that? I could imagine 4 instead of 5, or that staying as town would lose points. Also because I think the game design would be more interesting that way. You'd have to sell why you chose the option that gave you fewer points. If the the choice were truly as you say, it's an easy sell, as witnessed by the fact that I seem to be the only one suspicious of this.

I don't know, but here are some possible explanations:

• my arc is a lot easier to complete as scum, it's possible as town and not guaranteed as scum but it's a huge difference, so maybe it's there to compensate for that
• maybe the event was not scripted to happen on D1 but e.g. a day power did something that triggered it, in which case the design of the mechanic was not tailored for the situation in which it happened, making this discussion completely pointless
• maybe the purpose of the legacy points is not to measure your in-game performance by giving you more points for things that are more difficult, but something else (e.g. flavor related), in which case this discussion is also completely pointless
• perhaps faust misjudged how balanced the choice would be
• perhaps I misjudged how balanced it was

FWIW, it's agreed with your judgement on balance, though of course you may have knowledge that I don't.

Your first point, are you saying this is true? Or just that's it's possible? I'm assuming the latter. But if that's the case, it'd be clearly an argument in favor of choosing scum that you chose not to reveal. Which fits in with my theory of hiding lies within a greater truth.

[scolapasta]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

So because we should not brig ash, we should brig me? Why not the other person who voted ash?? (that's a joke, of course)

Are you ok with not brigging someone? Because we're spinning wheels in the same way we were yesterday so I do think we need to brig someone. I've explained why I voted ash. Is that you're only reason for voting me? Do you disagree with any of my logic about keeping Cylons around is risky?

I do plan on going back at some point and rereading space, based on Mix's vote. I also want to reread WCD as her posts feel more mechanical that the usual WCD.

[Awaclus]

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

That's not your point, that's my point:

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing

Your point is:

I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely

[Awaclus]

Your first point, are you saying this is true? Or just that's it's possible? I'm assuming the latter. But if that's the case, it'd be clearly an argument in favor of choosing scum that you chose not to reveal. Which fits in with my theory of hiding lies within a greater truth.

I'm saying this is true. I didn't consider it when I made the choice, so it wasn't on my mind while posting the explanation for my thought process (and indeed it would have been a lie to include it anyway, since it was not a part of the thought process).

[scolapasta]

Doesn't this agree with my point, though? that scum/idiot is unlikely enough here that it it's worth devaluing as an option?

That's not your point, that's my point:

You've excluded these options:

3) You're scum and know what you're doing

Your point is:

I don't see either 3 or 4 being as likely

You're right. The back and forth here got me confused with 1) scum / idiot. Which means maybe that would should be discounted more. I still think scum / smart here is unlikely.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am not following this well at all. 

[Awaclus]

I am not following this well at all.

You aren't missing out on anything useful.

[Robz888]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

[SpaceAnemone]

They know I'm (probably) a Cylon.  Take me out before that can happen, man.

You're assuming that while you're alive, you might suddenly switch from being human-aligned to being cylon-aligned, right? Have you checked to see whether your wincon (or legacy points allocation for this game, at least) can change after the point at which you're brigged?

I'm not saying I think that's a super-likely mechanism for faust to be using, but it does feel odd that you're quite focused on being brigged to prevent yourself from turning, when pushing to be brigged as a human-aligned player seems anti-town in every other possible way, and yet since this game persists after brigging, there must be some chance that some events after a player's brigging might be able to affect their wincon, points allocation or character story overall.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: scola

we should not exile ash

So because we should not brig ash, we should brig me? Why not the other person who voted ash?? (that's a joke, of course)

Are you ok with not brigging someone? Because we're spinning wheels in the same way we were yesterday so I do think we need to brig someone. I've explained why I voted ash. Is that you're only reason for voting me? Do you disagree with any of my logic about keeping Cylons around is risky?

I do plan on going back at some point and rereading space, based on Mix's vote. I also want to reread WCD as her posts feel more mechanical that the usual WCD.

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

[scolapasta]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

[Awaclus]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

[Swowl]

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.
Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really?

Yes, really.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

We already have one against you.

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

[Swowl]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

[Awaclus]

If Pasta is posting useless content, then so is everyone. The only people that have created content that can be considered "useful" thus far have been due to game mechanics. Which is completely NAI.

That's not true, a lot of people are doing or at least trying to do something useful.

[MiX]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

Yes.

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

[Awaclus]

mix - are you still town on ADK?

Yes.

Seems wrong to vote for scola when he's generating so much content.

Vote: ADK

The content that he's generating is so useless though

Useless, really? I'm trying to figure out who's scum. (or as this game seems to have this mechanic - the ability to become scum).

I'd rather try to exile someone who's cylon-aligbed than just blindly exiling people because they're cylons

Me too. We all do (or at least we'll claim to). The flip side is I'd rather not brig someone who's a human-aligned human (since I don't think could ever change sides). And right now no one seems to have any read on anyone else being scum.

So if we exile me or some other unknown, we'll just brig town. Seems to me brigging a Cylon is a better bet than that.

But make a good scum case against anyone. Le't s find scum!

Just because you have not been trying to catch current cylon-aligned players doesn't mean no one has.

Want to vote Pasta?