Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Topic started by: EFHW on April 21, 2013, 08:39:17 pm
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Harry Potter Mafia
Player List
1. yuma
2. Jimmmmm
3. liopoil
4. Galzria
5. chairs
6. Voltaire
7. mail-mi
8. Robz
9. Umbrage of Snow
10. nkirbit
11. Eevee
12. Ashersky
Tag:
Shraeye
Voltaire
Backup mod: Twistedarcher
Day starts:
Base Setup– see PM’s for powers
You are the incoming first year class at Hogwarts. Each of you has a mentor helping to guide you through this difficult first year. These mentors are veterans of the war against You-Know-Who. Some of them are dead, but this is magic, so that's ok. But some of the mentors are Death Eaters, and they have converted 3 of your class into Death Eaters as well. It will be up to the rest of you to root out these evildoers. And even though you are surrounded by highly skilled witches and wizards, you have to do this all on your own (and be sure to face lots of mortal danger so it's a good story). But some of you have already learned some skills from your mentors that may come in handy...
2 Death Eaters
1 Death Eater Legilimens/Impedimenta (Rolecop/Roleblock)
1 Ministry-Aligned Vote Fixer
1 Ministry-Aligned Healer (Doctor)
1 Ministry-Aligned Auror (Tracker/Watcher)
6 Ministry-Aligned Witches/Wizards
Each player is also a Neighbor with two other people.
Role PMs
Each player will have this section in their role PM:
You are a member of [House name here]. You will be Neighbors with your fellow [House name]s, [playername] and [playername] and will have night chat in the [House] Common Room.
- Each night you and your housemates may choose one player who you think is scum. This player gets a permanent vote from your House. If any player has permanent votes from all the Houses except their own, they are lynched at the start of the next Day. Your House has to reach a unanimous consensus to place a permanent vote.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a Ministry-Aligned Witch/Wizard . Your mentor is [flavor name here]
- Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions. (But keep your wand handy too, just not in your back pocket.)
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated and there is at least one Ministry player alive.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a Ministry-Aligned Healer. Your mentor is Madam Pomfrey
- Once each night you can submit the name of a player. That player will be protected from nightkills that night.
- Your probability of success as healer depends the number of permanent House votes you have at the END of the night phase. Each vote reduces your probability of success by 25%.
- One night only you may choose a player to give an Invisibility Potion, a 1-shot means of escape from attack, rendering 1 killing spell ineffective (1-shot Bulletproof). You can only give this potion to someone who has no permanent votes at the beginning of the night.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated and there is at least one Ministry player alive.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a Ministry-Aligned Auror/Combined Tracker-Watcher. Your mentor is Alistair (Mad-Eye) Moody.
- Each night you may submit the name of one player via PM. At the end of the night you will be told the names of anyone that player targeted that night and anyone who targeted that player that night.
- Because your mentor is a bit paranoid, you can be kind of jumpy too. You are suspicious of everyone, and each night that you catch someone there will be one other person in your results list who doesn't belong there (randomly chosen from the other players still alive that night). This person will always be in a list with at least one other person. So if you get "targeted X" and "was targeted by noone" (besides you) as your true results, you also will receive "targeted Z" as a result. You could not receive a random "targeted by" result because there are no true names on that list other than your own.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated and there is at least one Ministry player alive.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a 2-shot Vote Fixer . Your mentor is Dolores Umbridge. While you are associated with the Ministry, you like to be behind the scenes pulling the strings so things go the way you want them to.
- During two different night phases you may submit the name of one player and one House via PM. That player’s permanent vote by the House you specify will be erased.
- This action can be tracked and watched, with the chosen player as your target.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated and there is at least one Ministry player alive.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a Death Eater, along with your Death Eater partners, [PlayerName] and [PlayerName]. Your mentor is [mentor name here]
- Your safeclaim mentor is [safename here].
- During each Night Phase you may talk with your partners here: [QuickTopic link].
- Each night phase, you or one of your partners may perform the factional Avada Kadavra.
You win when you control half the Town or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Welcome to Hogwarts, [PlayerName]. You are a Death Eater Legilimens/Impedimenta, along with your Death Eater partners, [PlayerName] and [PlayerName]. Your mentor is Barty Crouch, Jr.
- Your safeclaim mentor is [safename here].
- During each Night Phase you may talk with your partners here: [QuickTopic link].
- Each night phase, you or one of your partners may perform the factional Avada Kadavra.
- Each night phase you may choose to either investigate another player's role, or block another player's night actions. You can submit your orders by PM or in the QT thread.
You win when you control half the Town or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Flavor names ARE relevant to roles and therefore alignment.
Mafia Ruleset (blatantly stolen from Axxle Jimmmmm)
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members All roles with a quicktopic may communicate at night. House members may also talk in their Common Rooms during the confirmation stage. Death Eaters will not have access to their QT until N1.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline. If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player or house with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM or bolded QT post to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority, no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
3a. House lynches do not trigger the end of a day.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of this vote type is required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. In-House voting: House votes must be agreed upon unanimously to become permanent. The lynch is not instantaneous, however. Players may change their minds until Day starts. At the start of Day, any change ordered by the Fixer will be applied and then the House vote counts will be presented, and if applicable, lynched players will die and flip.
8. This game will have 2 week a base of 7 day lynch deadlines and 48 72-hour night deadlines, extended at my discretion for weekends and holidays. Unused Daytime real-time days can accumulate with a reasonable degree of approximation to be used in future Days.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
10. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5.Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
8. No QT links are to be shared with any other player. So for example if a member of Ravenclaw is also a Death Eater, he or she is not allowed to share the Ravenclaw QT link with his or her Death Eater partner(s) from other houses. Real or fake quoting of players (not mods) from QTs is acceptable.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. If you haven’t already, check out and endorse the Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0).
Helpful Links:
Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)[/list]
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yeeees!
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oh boy this looks fun /in!
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/in /in /in /in/in /in /in /in/in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in /in
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
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quick look, town looks really strong unless I am confused on what the neighborizer is. Also survivor looks awesome, if you get nk'd your revealed and nobody really wants to lynch you. I mean scum can keep you around and win and town doesn't want to waste a lynch on non mafia. Mafia will know that you didn't die and there's no reason not to claim at that point.
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quick look, town looks really strong
That is a concern, but when is the last time town won? Also, scum could end up being neighbors, and use it toward their scummy ends.
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
That idea has potential ...
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
What do you mean by both players? There is only one head of house, right?
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
What do you mean by both players? There is only one head of house, right?
The head of house can observe the 2 players they neighborize.
Another twist is to not guarantee that the House Heads are Ministry-aligned. So have the alignments randomly decided (but slanted towards Town).
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
What do you mean by both players? There is only one head of house, right?
The head of house can observe the 2 players they neighborize.
Another twist is to not guarantee that the House Heads are Ministry-aligned. So have the alignments randomly decided (but slanted towards Town).
Okay, I understand. I think it's a good idea. What about you, EFHW?
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/tag.
The only thing I will say is that open setups are more susceptible to being broken and being solved. I haven't looked this over in any detail so I don't know if this one would be or not. If this will be rmm I won't play--and at this point this appears a bit more like a rmm game, although we have never had an open rmmm game before. If it is a normal game I have no idea if I will be in because this probably won't start in the que fir at least 3 months based off how the que has been moving of late
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I'd suggest giving away all the flavor names and making the scum factional power a normal 2-shot rolecop. This makes scum stronger (town is too powerful right now). Also maybe cut a VT to make it 13.
Probably /in.
The neighborizer probably needs tweaking as well... arche's idea is interesting...
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My sense is that this could easily be a normal game, but I do think it requires a bit of tweaking. The town seems too strong to me.
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The survivor could have a 1-shot vig kill.
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This set-up is too susceptible to Follow the Cop.
Cop claims D1, JK stays silent and protect him every day until the JK dies. JK just needs to not be suspected/forced to claim/lynched.
Scum cop doesn't do much, even if you make it a Role Cop. They're looking for the JK to beat Follow the Cop, but only get two chances.
I do think it can be a regular game with tweaks.
Separately, as the keeper of the Index, I believe this game would be MXXX (M30), or maybe M29 depending on Archetype. We've got Cuzz, raerae, shraeye, and yuma all in the queue to host regular games. Given that, I would suggest not accepting sign ups yet, and treating this thread as a discussion for balance and set-up.
That's just me--if all the mods ahead of you in line are good with you jumping ahead, then by all means, go for it. But the queue has been long-standing.
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This set-up is too susceptible to Follow the Cop.
Cop claims D1, JK stays silent and protect him every day until the JK dies. JK just needs to not be suspected/forced to claim/lynched.
I'm wrong here -- Cop couldn't investigate.
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I'd want to roll Survivor. Claim D1, promise never to vote or use your shot, and just wait for the game to end to win with whomever is there. Killing the survivor helps no one, so there's no incentive to lynch.
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
Arch is on to something cool here.
I'd say 13-player game, if you really want the survivor role.
4 Houses (QTs) rolled regardless of alignment. So I'd roll like this:
Random rolls to assign roles (VT, Cop, etc.). Now everyone has a role and alignment.
New random rolls to select Houses for everyone but the survivor.
Now, instead of a Head of Household, make each night in the QT a mini-game. Majority of votes required to use their power and for target. They have 48 (72?) hours to complete. No majority vote means no power used.
Separately, scum have a QT and can scheme. If they're lucky, all three are in different houses and can try to sway power use. At worst, they all end up in one house, which would stink, but hey, random is random.
Plus, players still have PRs, so they make their own decisions, but have extra info (House QT) to based their decision. I'd probably limit the Cops somehow, though.
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I like the premise. But my fear is that the neighborizer will die early, and then all the fun will be lost.
Maybe make 4 'Head of Houses' who have that power. But one is Gryffindor, one is Slyverin, etc. And then make everyone a VT. But then you can have each house have a full power role, but both players must agree on the target each night.
Arch is on to something cool here.
I'd say 13-player game, if you really want the survivor role.
4 Houses (QTs) rolled regardless of alignment. So I'd roll like this:
Random rolls to assign roles (VT, Cop, etc.). Now everyone has a role and alignment.
New random rolls to select Houses for everyone but the survivor.
Now, instead of a Head of Household, make each night in the QT a mini-game. Majority of votes required to use their power and for target. They have 48 (72?) hours to complete. No majority vote means no power used.
Separately, scum have a QT and can scheme. If they're lucky, all three are in different houses and can try to sway power use. At worst, they all end up in one house, which would stink, but hey, random is random.
Plus, players still have PRs, so they make their own decisions, but have extra info (House QT) to based their decision. I'd probably limit the Cops somehow, though.
I like this large scale version a lot better than my suggestion. It may end up being similiar to Masons and Monks, which may not be too bad.
At the beginning of the game, all players except the survivor, are divide into 1 of 4 houses randomly. No one will know the alignment of the players in your house, and you'll all be given a QT to talk in at night.
So each house has their powerrole, and then some town power roles and 1 scum power role (Godfather for Voldemort?). For a house to use it's powerrole, the majority of the players in the house must agree on a target. If a majority is not obtained, the power is not used.
When a player dies, their flavor name, role name, alignment and what house they were a part of will all be revealed.
I think this could be run multiple times, but I'd like to suggest a few changes to the town PRs:
Jailkeeper and Cop are fine, but we'd need to make one or both of them X-shots depending on the powers of the houses.
I think the Survivor (if you still want to include it) should become a Compulsive X. That way the factions would have to persuade the Survivor to help them, but I would feel bad for the Survivor since they misss out on all the fun QT stuff. Maybe instead a 1-shot House of their choice joining?.
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I have zero interest in Harry Potter, but if this game ends up being as cool as it sounds like it could be, I'll won't have any choice but to play. I'll let you know.
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I think the Survivor (if you still want to include it) should become a Compulsive X. That way the factions would have to persuade the Survivor to help them, but I would feel bad for the Survivor since they misss out on all the fun QT stuff. Maybe instead a 1-shot House of their choice joining?.
Or Houses could try to recruit on N0.
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Separately, as the keeper of the Index, I believe this game would be MXXX (M30), or maybe M29 depending on Archetype. We've got Cuzz, raerae, shraeye, and yuma all in the queue to host regular games. Given that, I would suggest not accepting sign ups yet, and treating this thread as a discussion for balance and set-up.
Absolutely. I am happy to wait my turn.
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Now, instead of a Head of Household, make each night in the QT a mini-game. Majority of votes required to use their power and for target. They have 48 (72?) hours to complete. No majority vote means no power used.
Separately, scum have a QT and can scheme. If they're lucky, all three are in different houses and can try to sway power use. At worst, they all end up in one house, which would stink, but hey, random is random.
Plus, players still have PRs, so they make their own decisions, but have extra info (House QT) to based their decision. I'd probably limit the Cops somehow, though.
Having mini-games at night is a cool idea. Should we make the house powers not 1-shot, then? So there is more than one chance for a mini-game.
We could do away with the individual powers, or make them something more flavorful, less impacting on the game.
How could we make Death Eaters stronger?
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I think the Survivor (if you still want to include it) should become a Compulsive X. That way the factions would have to persuade the Survivor to help them, but I would feel bad for the Survivor since they misss out on all the fun QT stuff. Maybe instead a 1-shot House of their choice joining?.
Or Houses could try to recruit on N0.
The problem with houses recruiting is they may try to recruit the same people. In the original plan, a different house was created each night, including N0. We could keep that structure, make the survivor the neighborizer, and have three people in each QT instead of 2. Each house would have one "mini-game" re: their one-shot power.
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I think the Survivor (if you still want to include it) should become a Compulsive X. That way the factions would have to persuade the Survivor to help them, but I would feel bad for the Survivor since they misss out on all the fun QT stuff. Maybe instead a 1-shot House of their choice joining?.
Or Houses could try to recruit on N0.
The problem with houses recruiting is they may try to recruit the same people. In the original plan, a different house was created each night, including N0. We could keep that structure, make the survivor the neighborizer, and have three people in each QT instead of 2. Each house would have one "mini-game" re: their one-shot power.
If the neighborizer is killed, the role could shift randomly to someone not yet in a house. They may or may not have access to the already existing QTs
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I'd want to roll Survivor. Claim D1, promise never to vote or use your shot, and just wait for the game to end to win with whomever is there. Killing the survivor helps no one, so there's no incentive to lynch.
Wouldn't killing the Survivor help scum? They need to reduce the non-Death Eater population.
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I'd want to roll Survivor. Claim D1, promise never to vote or use your shot, and just wait for the game to end to win with whomever is there. Killing the survivor helps no one, so there's no incentive to lynch.
Wouldn't killing the Survivor help scum? They need to reduce the non-Death Eater population.
no because the survivor can win with scum, so once the death-eaters plus survivor have the majority they win, say a 2 scum, 1 survivor, 3 town scenario. If scum is caught they can say if survivor helps lynch scum the scum will kill the survivor, if they no lynch scum wins with survivor. This means 2 scum, 1 survivor, 5 town is mylo.
Moreover with 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum, 1 survivor, 4 town. So 3 mislynches are allowed.
Without survivor, 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum 3 town. So 4 mislynches are allowed.
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I'd want to roll Survivor. Claim D1, promise never to vote or use your shot, and just wait for the game to end to win with whomever is there. Killing the survivor helps no one, so there's no incentive to lynch.
Wouldn't killing the Survivor help scum? They need to reduce the non-Death Eater population.
no because the survivor can win with scum, so once the death-eaters plus survivor have the majority they win, say a 2 scum, 1 survivor, 3 town scenario. If scum is caught they can say if survivor helps lynch scum the scum will kill the survivor, if they no lynch scum wins with survivor. This means 2 scum, 1 survivor, 5 town is mylo.
Moreover with 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum, 1 survivor, 4 town. So 3 mislynches are allowed.
Without survivor, 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum 3 town. So 4 mislynches are allowed.
So survivor gets counted with the scum, as scum, for the wincon?
I wouldn't have thought that. I could see them deciding to join in to help scum win, but I would have thought that with 6 town, there would need to be 3 actual scum to win. Doesn't the inevitable scum win you are describing depend on at least one scum and the survivor having been identified? So the scum win should not be automatic just based on numbers.
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I'd want to roll Survivor. Claim D1, promise never to vote or use your shot, and just wait for the game to end to win with whomever is there. Killing the survivor helps no one, so there's no incentive to lynch.
Wouldn't killing the Survivor help scum? They need to reduce the non-Death Eater population.
no because the survivor can win with scum, so once the death-eaters plus survivor have the majority they win, say a 2 scum, 1 survivor, 3 town scenario. If scum is caught they can say if survivor helps lynch scum the scum will kill the survivor, if they no lynch scum wins with survivor. This means 2 scum, 1 survivor, 5 town is mylo.
Moreover with 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum, 1 survivor, 4 town. So 3 mislynches are allowed.
Without survivor, 14 players, scum wins at 3 scum 3 town. So 4 mislynches are allowed.
So survivor gets counted with the scum, as scum, for the wincon?
I wouldn't have thought that. I could see them deciding to join in to help scum win, but I would have thought that with 6 town, there would need to be 3 actual scum to win. Doesn't the inevitable scum win you are describing depend on at least one scum and the survivor having been identified? So the scum win should not be automatic just based on numbers.
I think the point is that the Survivor can claim and work together with scum to at least get a no-lynch.
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So then wouldn't town want to lynch the survivor, especially since early on it's very hard to find scum?
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You have to think of Survivor as anti-town and account for the possibility that he will side with scum. If he claims, he should probably be lynched unless he is actually helping the town out.
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If we make the Survivor the neighborizer, then some very complicated strategies could arise. Maybe the Survivor would want to put scum with town, rather than trying to isolate them.
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So then wouldn't town want to lynch the survivor, especially since early on it's very hard to find scum?
If Town/scum/Survivor is 4/3/1, then scum/Survivor can work together to force a no-lynch. During the night, scum must kill a Townie (since if they kill the Survivor the Town will pick them off one-by-one), making it 3/3/1. Then scum/Survivor can simply lynch a Townie, giving the win to scum/Survivor.
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So then wouldn't town want to lynch the survivor, especially since early on it's very hard to find scum?
If Town/scum/Survivor is 4/3/1, then scum/Survivor can work together to force a no-lynch. During the night, scum must kill a Townie (since if they kill the Survivor the Town will pick them off one-by-one), making it 3/3/1. Then scum/Survivor can simply lynch a Townie, giving the win to scum/Survivor.
The premise was Ashersky's #18, that he would claim D1.
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If the survivor neighborizer is killed and new one appointed, that player's alignment could (would need to?) change to survivor.
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So then wouldn't town want to lynch the survivor, especially since early on it's very hard to find scum?
If Town/scum/Survivor is 4/3/1, then scum/Survivor can work together to force a no-lynch. During the night, scum must kill a Townie (since if they kill the Survivor the Town will pick them off one-by-one), making it 3/3/1. Then scum/Survivor can simply lynch a Townie, giving the win to scum/Survivor.
The premise was Ashersky's #18, that he would claim D1.
Oh ok. Missed that. I guess in that case Town would want to kill the Survivor before you get to this stage.
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Yes. So ash is wrong, it would be bad for the Survivor to claim straight away.
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Yes. So ash is wrong, it would be bad for the Survivor to claim straight away.
Yes town cod lynch survivor if they claimed D1 but you really want to try to lynch scum because if town+survivor has the bigger numbers survivor wants to help lynching scum.
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I think the question is not "Do we lynch the Survivor?" but "When do we lynch the Survivor?" You'd rather lynch scum early on, but if you get to the point where the Survivor can help scum win the next Day, the Survivor has to go. I guess based on that a claimed Survivor would want to help Town win so it doesn't come to that.
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Oh yea I just figured it out, if survivor ever claims or is found they will lynch survivor. Because once the survivor is known, they can be nk'd by scum. If they ever get to a point where they are working with town, the final scum player can nk survivor making survivor lose. So in any scenario survivor will only be allowe to live if they cooperate with scum to create a majority and
Lynch or no lynch for a scum victory. Town doesn't want that to Halle and needs to lynch a claimed survivor. A hidden survivor can be more flexible and work towards a town win.
This means as far as survivor, it is essentially an anti-town power. They will never be more helpful to town than a vt. I can see that giving survivor a power makes it potentially better for town but has the potential to be even worse.
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This means as far as survivor, it is essentially an anti-town power. They will never be more helpful to town than a vt. I can see that giving survivor a power makes it potentially better for town but has the potential to be even worse.
Does having the survivor help balance this game, then?
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I think the question is not "Do we lynch the Survivor?" but "When do we lynch the Survivor?" You'd rather lynch scum early on, but if you get to the point where the Survivor can help scum win the next Day, the Survivor has to go. I guess based on that a claimed Survivor would want to help Town win so it doesn't come to that.
Claimed survivor has to "help town"(it's not like they know who scum is so they would just be scum hunting) but claimed survivor as I described will never win with town. I mean I guess scum would want to continue not killing survivor till the end. I was thinking scum would bitterly take survivor down with them. But it all depends on if the scum thinks they will get lynche the next day or not.
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This means as far as survivor, it is essentially an anti-town power. They will never be more helpful to town than a vt. I can see that giving survivor a power makes it potentially better for town but has the potential to be even worse.
Does having the survivor help balance this game, then?
I would think so, it definety weakens town. Though only slightly.
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I still disagree. If I'm the survivor, I claim D1 immediately, and broker a deal with town and scum. Why?
1) I win no matter who wins, so long as I don't die. That's all I care about. Not town, not scum, just surviving to win.
2) I have an NK. That means I can affect the game at night at any point that I'm still alive, including killing claimed PRs, etc. if I want.
3) I have a vote. That means I can affect who gets lynched during the day.
Why do those things matter? It's in the best interest of town that I NOT use my NK, since I'm most likely going to hit town (see town vigs in almost every game). It's also in the best interest of town that I NOT vote, since anti-town voters help mislynch more often, especially since I don't have partners to bus. That means that with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch, but without my vote, scum needs 50% of town or more to mislynch (8 votes out of 13 players, 10 of whom are town means if ALL 3 scum vote for one town player, you still need 5 town votes).
So then, why won't scum NK me? Because I inflate their team for the endgame. As mentioned, I basically count as a 4th member, and give town one less mislynch for the game. 3 scum, 3 town is a scum win (generally, not taking into account JK and such). With survivor, scum with with 4 town alive.
The greatest risk is a spiteful town lynching survivor anyway.
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But if scum start winning, Town will have to lynch you to avoid you counting as a 4th scum member.
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I would assume that survivor doesn't count like that. scum wincon is "you win when you control half the town or nothing else can prevent that from happening". "the town" is all living player, so in a situation with two scum, two town, and a survivor, scum only controls 2/5 of the town.
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I still disagree. If I'm the survivor, I claim D1 immediately, and broker a deal with town and scum. Why? ....
.... It's in the best interest of town that I NOT use my NK, since I'm most likely going to hit town (see town vigs in almost every game). It's also in the best interest of town that I NOT vote, since anti-town voters help mislynch more often, especially since I don't have partners to bus.
These seem like good reasons to lynch the survivor if he or she claims. Especially since D1 is most likely going to be a mislynch otherwise. What's in it for town to keep the survivor alive?
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I still disagree. If I'm the survivor, I claim D1 immediately, and broker a deal with town and scum. Why? ....
.... It's in the best interest of town that I NOT use my NK, since I'm most likely going to hit town (see town vigs in almost every game). It's also in the best interest of town that I NOT vote, since anti-town voters help mislynch more often, especially since I don't have partners to bus.
These seem like good reasons to lynch the survivor if he or she claims. Especially since D1 is most likely going to be a mislynch otherwise. What's in it for town to keep the survivor alive?
Lynch mafia, not scum.
If I'm town, I'm going to argue to keep the survivor around the keep mislynch numbers down. I might try to convince him to join town, especially if we get a scum lynch. He's the wildcard, and more useful alive than dead.
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I revised the house plans and weakened town's powers. Tell me what you think.
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I would assume that survivor doesn't count like that. scum wincon is "you win when you control half the town or nothing else can prevent that from happening". "the town" is all living player, so in a situation with two scum, two town, and a survivor, scum only controls 2/5 of the town.
Right, but survivor is the 3rd scum there, so they just hammer and win with scum.
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I would assume that survivor doesn't count like that. scum wincon is "you win when you control half the town or nothing else can prevent that from happening". "the town" is all living player, so in a situation with two scum, two town, and a survivor, scum only controls 2/5 of the town.
Right, but survivor is the 3rd scum there, so they just hammer and win with scum.
hmmm, good point, however:
survivor has claimed, right. So, a town player claims scum and votes, if it's for town they lose, but if it's for scum then they can lynch that player, and the survivor won't know who the real scum is.
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I revised the house plans and weakened town's powers. Tell me what you think.
Yaaay! You're using my ideas!
I think the powerroles could be tweaked some more after you decide the house powers.
I have one other suggestion though. You could make one of the Death Eaters a Godfather, and then have the Gryfindor House be a Cop. Then scum could try and redirect the investigation to their Godfather for some interesting WIFOM. Just a suggestion though.
I think Slytherin should be a Roleblocker (evil role..but could it be used for good purposes?). But of course Hated works too if you still like that.
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I revised the house plans and weakened town's powers. Tell me what you think.
Yaaay! You're using my ideas!
I think the powerroles could be tweaked some more after you decide the house powers.
I have one other suggestion though. You could make one of the Death Eaters a Godfather, and then have the Gryfindor House be a Cop. Then scum could try and redirect the investigation to their Godfather for some interesting WIFOM. Just a suggestion though.
I think Slytherin should be a Roleblocker (evil role..but could it be used for good purposes?). But of course Hated works too if you still like that.
I'm not convinced that the Head of Household nerf is needed--why can't they all 4 be full members of the QT?
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I'm not convinced that the Head of Household nerf is needed--why can't they all 4 be full members of the QT?
They could be part of the QT, but the main reason is that it's a chance to add more flavor. It's also a challenge to the head of house to say just the right thing for their one post a day. And will the neighbors forget they are being overheard? Also, they won't know which player is their head of house.
What's a nerf?
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I revised the house plans and weakened town's powers. Tell me what you think.
Yaaay! You're using my ideas!
I think the powerroles could be tweaked some more after you decide the house powers.
I have one other suggestion though. You could make one of the Death Eaters a Godfather, and then have the Gryfindor House be a Cop. Then scum could try and redirect the investigation to their Godfather for some interesting WIFOM. Just a suggestion though.
I think Slytherin should be a Roleblocker (evil role..but could it be used for good purposes?). But of course Hated works too if you still like that.
I like the flavor of Gryffindor sacrificing themselves to save others, and the Slytherins are such malicious gossipers, hated seemed suitable.
We have a cop already, so there could be a Godfather Death Eater. But I don't think You-Know-Who deserves to get to play.
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I'm not convinced that the Head of Household nerf is needed--why can't they all 4 be full members of the QT?
They could be part of the QT, but the main reason is that it's a chance to add more flavor. It's also a challenge to the head of house to say just the right thing for their one post a day. And will the neighbors forget they are being overheard? Also, they won't know which player is their head of house.
It will make the players have to decide on either of their two QT members to approve of their use of night action, instead of constantly trying to persuade the same person. If one gets killed, then you still have to do that.
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I still disagree. If I'm the survivor, I claim D1 immediately, and broker a deal with town and scum. Why? ....
.... It's in the best interest of town that I NOT use my NK, since I'm most likely going to hit town (see town vigs in almost every game). It's also in the best interest of town that I NOT vote, since anti-town voters help mislynch more often, especially since I don't have partners to bus.
These seem like good reasons to lynch the survivor if he or she claims. Especially since D1 is most likely going to be a mislynch otherwise. What's in it for town to keep the survivor alive?
Lynch mafia, not scum.
If I'm town, I'm going to argue to keep the survivor around the keep mislynch numbers down. I might try to convince him to join town, especially if we get a scum lynch. He's the wildcard, and more useful alive than dead.
You don't lynch the survivor on d1, but it's quite possible that you do it midgame to prevent survivor joining scum for a quick quickhammer.
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I know there was concern about town being too strong, but I'm not so sure. The town is now 12 people.
I'm not convinced that the Head of Household nerf is needed--why can't they all 4 be full members of the QT?
They could be part of the QT, but the main reason is that it's a chance to add more flavor. It's also a challenge to the head of house to say just the right thing for their one post a day. And will the neighbors forget they are being overheard? Also, they won't know which player is their head of house.
It will make the players have to decide on either of their two QT members to approve of their use of night action, instead of constantly trying to persuade the same person. If one gets killed, then you still have to do that.
Their powers are 1-shot, so persuasion will only happen once per house. We could add 4 people to the game if there's enough interest to have 16 players.
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I know there was concern about town being too strong, but I'm not so sure. The town is now 12 people.
I'm not convinced that the Head of Household nerf is needed--why can't they all 4 be full members of the QT?
They could be part of the QT, but the main reason is that it's a chance to add more flavor. It's also a challenge to the head of house to say just the right thing for their one post a day. And will the neighbors forget they are being overheard? Also, they won't know which player is their head of house.
It will make the players have to decide on either of their two QT members to approve of their use of night action, instead of constantly trying to persuade the same person. If one gets killed, then you still have to do that.
Their powers are 1-shot, so persuasion will only happen once per house. We could add 4 people to the game if there's enough interest to have 16 players.
Oh that's right. They are 1-shot.
I'd make them full PRs and make the other normal PRs one shots of whatever they are. But I feel like I should just run the kind of game I would want, instead of hijacking yours. :P
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I would strongly suggest keeping it at 13 or below. Well maybe strongly is too strong of a word... But for me 13 is at the max of amount of players that I will personally play. Any more is just too much for town to get moving and coordinated together, it basically turns days 1-3 into one big day1.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed every big game I have been in, but they can be real headaches in the beginning.
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Oh that's right. They are 1-shot.
I'd make them full PRs and make the other normal PRs one shots of whatever they are. But I feel like I should just run the kind of game I would want, instead of hijacking yours. :P
1-shot vs full seems like a balance question, which will also depend on how many players there are, so it's kind of too early to decide that yet.
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I would strongly suggest keeping it at 13 or below. Well maybe strongly is too strong of a word... But for me 13 is at the max of amount of players that I will personally play. Any more is just too much for town to get moving and coordinated together, it basically turns days 1-3 into one big day1.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed every big game I have been in, but they can be real headaches in the beginning.
And people are probably more likely to lurk.
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I would strongly suggest keeping it at 13 or below. Well maybe strongly is too strong of a word... But for me 13 is at the max of amount of players that I will personally play. Any more is just too much for town to get moving and coordinated together, it basically turns days 1-3 into one big day1.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed every big game I have been in, but they can be real headaches in the beginning.
I think the 4 mini games combats this to an extent.
EFHW, in the end, run the game you want. We're just making suggestions, not even all of them are for "balance" per se.
Final notes from me: I think everyone will know who their head of household is because they'll make one post only. If they don't post, then they can act like a watched 3-person neighborhood.
I like the idea of 4 houses of 3 people each. Confirmed Gryffindor, etc. to each other, but NOT confirmed town/scum. You can be a Gryffindor Death Eater, for example. Each house has a special power, not 1-shot, but requires majority vote to use AND target. Plus you have regular PRs peppered throughout the game.
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EFHW, in the end, run the game you want. We're just making suggestions, not even all of them are for "balance" per se.
absolutely agree
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I would strongly suggest keeping it at 13 or below. Well maybe strongly is too strong of a word... But for me 13 is at the max of amount of players that I will personally play. Any more is just too much for town to get moving and coordinated together, it basically turns days 1-3 into one big day1.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed every big game I have been in, but they can be real headaches in the beginning.
+1
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This feedback is really useful. In the end I'll mix everything up and come out with something that feels right. I am concerned about balance, though. Are there some rules of thumb I could follow re: pro-town vs. anti-town roles?
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EFHW, in the end, run the game you want. We're just making suggestions, not even all of them are for "balance" per se.
absolutely agree
Same here. You've just got so much design space in here that I'd hate to see it go to waste.
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This feedback is really useful. In the end I'll mix everything up and come out with something that feels right. I am concerned about balance, though. Are there some rules of thumb I could follow re: pro-town vs. anti-town roles?
Normal Roles broken down
Pro Town:
Doctor
Cop
Tracker
Watcher
Jailkeeper
Commuter
Could be considered Anti Town:
Vigilante
Roleblocker
Hated
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This feedback is really useful. In the end I'll mix everything up and come out with something that feels right. I am concerned about balance, though. Are there some rules of thumb I could follow re: pro-town vs. anti-town roles?
What I like to do when planning a game (usually RMM), I write out the action each player is able to do. I split them into the teams, and I think about how they interact. I'll do a town-only analysis and a scum-only analysis and think "in a vacuum, is this over- or under-powered?" Then I'll compare the two.
Does town have way too much investigatory power? Does scum hide too easily? Are there going to be too many kills? How many mislynches can town afford? Those sorts of questions.
I think we always worry about overpowering teams. You can decide for yourself if you want a game driven by night powers and roles or by voting and scumhunting.
Did you read along for LotR? That game had people that felt all three things: it was balanced, or town was too strong, or scum was too strong. Had a grey character too, although he was scum the whole time.
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If I do the houses thing, which is likely, then I guess this qualifies as role-madness since there won't be any Vanilla townies.
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ash, you are so wrong that claiming is good for a Survivor. Once the game gets down to any of 6/3/1, 5/3/1, 5/2/1, 4/2/1, 4/1/1 or 3/1/1, a half-competent Town will lynch the Survivor every day of the week. Trying to lynch Mafia here is putting Town at lylo today, while just lynching the Survivor today means lylo will be tomorrow with better odds. The only hope a claimed Survivor has is for Town to win convincingly.
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ash, you are so wrong that claiming is good for a Survivor. Once the game gets down to any of 6/3/1, 5/3/1, 5/2/1, 4/2/1, 4/1/1 or 3/1/1, a half-competent Town will lynch the Survivor every day of the week. Trying to lynch Mafia here is putting Town at lylo today, while just lynching the Survivor today means lylo will be tomorrow with better odds. The only hope a claimed Survivor has is for Town to win convincingly.
I disagree. If you lynch the survivor, it's like no lynching. 6/3/1 becomes 5/3. How is that good? Instead, you "recruit" the survivor to your side at that point, and it's 6/3/1 to 6/3. If you are at 3/1/1, why would you NOT lynch mafia? Makes no sense to me. Everything in between probably has edge cases, but it seems like keeping the survivor on your side, or at least not against you, is WAY better than wasting your only power to kill something that doesn't even matter to the game until lylo.
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You can't "recruit" the Survivor. Imagine it's 4/3/1.
Mafia: I'm Mafia. Survivor, you will help us no-lynch, because if you don't, we WILL kill you tonight, and you lose. If you do, you're guaranteed to win with us.
Now the Survivor could try to call his bluff and risk it, but why? He has absolutely no reason to put his neck out for Town here and throw away a 100% win. So 4/3/1 is a loss for Town.
So 6/3/1 is lylo if Town tries to lynch Mafia, and has a 3/9 chance of doing so. If instead, they lynch the Survivor, then the next day they'll be at lylo, but with a 3/8 chance of lynching Mafia. Better odds, and one less Townie to mislynch. Sounds like optimal Town play to me.
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You can't "recruit" the Survivor. Imagine it's 4/3/1.
Mafia: I'm Mafia. Survivor, you will help us no-lynch, because if you don't, we WILL kill you tonight, and you lose. If you do, you're guaranteed to win with us.
Now the Survivor could try to call his bluff and risk it, but why? He has absolutely no reason to put his neck out for Town here and throw away a 100% win. So 4/3/1 is a loss for Town.
So 6/3/1 is lylo if Town tries to lynch Mafia, and has a 3/9 chance of doing so. If instead, they lynch the Survivor, then the next day they'll be at lylo, but with a 3/8 chance of lynching Mafia. Better odds, and one less Townie to mislynch. Sounds like optimal Town play to me.
Optimal town play is killing mafia. There are very few edge cases where you would prefer to kill someone other than mafia. And this isn't an SK we're talking about, who keeps killing. It's basically a Tree Stump.
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You can't "recruit" the Survivor. Imagine it's 4/3/1.
Mafia: I'm Mafia. Survivor, you will help us no-lynch, because if you don't, we WILL kill you tonight, and you lose. If you do, you're guaranteed to win with us.
Now the Survivor could try to call his bluff and risk it, but why? He has absolutely no reason to put his neck out for Town here and throw away a 100% win. So 4/3/1 is a loss for Town.
So 6/3/1 is lylo if Town tries to lynch Mafia, and has a 3/9 chance of doing so. If instead, they lynch the Survivor, then the next day they'll be at lylo, but with a 3/8 chance of lynching Mafia. Better odds, and one less Townie to mislynch. Sounds like optimal Town play to me.
Optimal town play is killing mafia. There are very few edge cases where you would prefer to kill someone other than mafia. And this isn't an SK we're talking about, who keeps killing. It's basically a Tree Stump.
That's not what optimal means. That's like saying about a game of Dominion, "The optimal strategy is to get the most points." Optimal Town play is to give yourselves the best possible chance to lynch Mafia. Obviously as Town you'd rather kill Mafia than the Survivor. But in the above situations you'd MUCH rather kill the Survivor than a Townie, because if you kill a Townie you lose. And killing the Survivor actually helps your chances at killing Mafia.
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You can't "recruit" the Survivor. Imagine it's 4/3/1.
Mafia: I'm Mafia. Survivor, you will help us no-lynch, because if you don't, we WILL kill you tonight, and you lose. If you do, you're guaranteed to win with us.
Now the Survivor could try to call his bluff and risk it, but why? He has absolutely no reason to put his neck out for Town here and throw away a 100% win. So 4/3/1 is a loss for Town.
So 6/3/1 is lylo if Town tries to lynch Mafia, and has a 3/9 chance of doing so. If instead, they lynch the Survivor, then the next day they'll be at lylo, but with a 3/8 chance of lynching Mafia. Better odds, and one less Townie to mislynch. Sounds like optimal Town play to me.
Optimal town play is killing mafia. There are very few edge cases where you would prefer to kill someone other than mafia. And this isn't an SK we're talking about, who keeps killing. It's basically a Tree Stump.
That's not what optimal means. That's like saying about a game of Dominion, "The optimal strategy is to get the most points." Optimal Town play is to give yourselves the best possible chance to lynch Mafia. Obviously as Town you'd rather kill Mafia than the Survivor. But in the above situations you'd MUCH rather kill the Survivor than a Townie, because if you kill a Townie you lose. And killing the Survivor actually helps your chances at killing Mafia.
I think your numbers are wrong, or we're not thinking about this the same way.
6/3/1 (town/mafia/survivor). First, I'd note that that's 3 deaths, so it's N2. Anyway, if it is day, any one town member has a 3/8 chance of hitting mafia (NOT 3/9, as you posit) with their vote (6+3-1=8). Assume mislynch + NK. Now we have 4/3/1 and scum wins. Okay. But to get to 6/3/1, that's 2 mislynches, an NK, and a blocked NK. Day 3 at the earliest. In a game with 13, 3 mislynches to lose sounds about right for an expert level game. The bigger issue is that at 6/3/1, all three mafia claim, add survivor, and win anyway.
But assume one scum lynch in 2 days. Now we're at 6/2/1 on D3. Any one town member has a 2/5 chance at lynching scum, and scum + survivor can't lynch anyone. No reason to kill the survivor now, since that just drops things to 5/2 on D4 for lylo. Mislynch and it's 4/2/1--mafia full claim and win.
I mean, I see your argument that survivor has it easier to just win with scum, so town should just kill them anyway.
But if that's the way to play it, you just auto-lynch the survivor on D1. He has no house, so you can flush him out as a group. Knowing the others' houses does nothing for you, so everyone house claims, the 13th player is lynched. That's no fun for the survivor.
If I rolled survivor, I'd claim right away and find a way to convince both mafia and town to just forget about me.
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That's wrong ash. The point is that it is best to lynch survivor if it gets to the point where leaving him around could result in an early mylo or lylo. You certainly leave the survivor at the start of the game and you can keep him around if you hit scum once or twice, because if town is likely to win then survivor would only help that. But if scum pull ahead, it is better to just lynch the survivor than risk mislynching. That's what everyone is pointing out. At or just before the point where survivor would join scum, town needs to lynch survivor because he might s well be scum anyway and it makes it easier to lynch correctly after that.
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The survivor will have a house.
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The survivor will have a house.
I've nixed the survivor as neighborizer idea.
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How about this - the survivor is the Head of School, and can read all the QT's and post in each once a night. There are 3 people in each house to start, making 13 players total. They have the town powers and need a majority consensus to use them. The survivor does not have a vig kill - all his/her power is in the access to the qt's.
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How about this - the survivor is the Head of School, and can read all the QT's and post in each once a night. There are 3 people in each house to start, making 13 players total. They have the town powers and need a majority consensus to use them. The survivor does not have a vig kill - all his/her power is in the access to the qt's.
Is his presence known in each QT? If so, that can break the game for the Survivor with a mass QT claim.
Another question -- each house can neighbourize? What happens if they neighbourize each other? I mean, mechanically someone simply has access to multiple neighborhood QTs, but thematically it doesn't work well.
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How about this - the survivor is the Head of School, and can read all the QT's and post in each once a night. There are 3 people in each house to start, making 13 players total. They have the town powers and need a majority consensus to use them. The survivor does not have a vig kill - all his/her power is in the access to the qt's.
Is his presence known in each QT? If so, that can break the game for the Survivor with a mass QT claim.
Another question -- each house can neighbourize? What happens if they neighbourize each other? I mean, mechanically someone simply has access to multiple neighborhood QTs, but thematically it doesn't work well.
I think neighborizing is out completely now. Random rolls into each house.
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I think neighborizing is out completely now. Random rolls into each house.
Right, AND the survivor is not in the QT under his/her real name. Kind of like mcmc pretending to be Eevee. They'd be "Professor MacGonagall". Not sure if I spelled that right.
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I think neighborizing is out completely now. Random rolls into each house.
Right, AND the survivor is not in the QT under his/her real name. Kind of like mcmc pretending to be Eevee. They'd be "Professor MacGonagall". Not sure if I spelled that right.
She's the head of Gryffindor. They'd be "Professor Dumbledore"
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RELEVANT
(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130424.gif)
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I think neighborizing is out completely now. Random rolls into each house.
Right, AND the survivor is not in the QT under his/her real name. Kind of like mcmc pretending to be Eevee. They'd be "Professor MacGonagall". Not sure if I spelled that right.
She's the head of Gryffindor. They'd be "Professor Dumbledore"
Sadly, Dumbledore has died.
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RELEVANT
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I'd suggest, to make town stronger (right now I think scum is too good), all four heads of houses Town PRs. since they are conf. town PRs, I think they should be able to post in their QT as their flavor name, so as not to give themself away if there is scum in the QT.
Also, I'd suggest making the survivor a jailkeeper, to give teams more incentive to get on their good side. I'd scratch the kill too.
Is there a reason not to reveal flavor?
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I like the idea of head of houses talking under pseudonyms. You should also make them be able to talk as much as they want instead of just once.
Kind of turns every QT into a less bastard "Eevee QT" ;D
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agree with arch. I'd also make the scum power a plain 2-shot rolecop, which learns house and role.
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I'd also make the scum power a plain 2-shot rolecop, which learns house and role.
This. Scum needs some sort of power.
I really think you need to change the Gryffindor power though. I kind of want the Slytherin and Hufflepuff powers changed, but this is your game so you shouldn't do everything I say. But definitely change the Gryffindor power, it's essentially a Lightning Rod, which ruins the fun for the majority of the other roles while it's alive.
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I'd also make the scum power a plain 2-shot rolecop, which learns house and role.
This. Scum needs some sort of power.
I really think you need to change the Gryffindor power though. I kind of want the Slytherin and Hufflepuff powers changed, but this is your game so you shouldn't do everything I say. But definitely change the Gryffindor power, it's essentially a Lightning Rod, which ruins the fun for the majority of the other roles while it's alive.
It is different from a lightening rod because they have to specify one player to protect, they don't get to protect everyone like lr does.
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A lot of things have changed, so read through it again before commenting please!
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You've settled on "regular" for this game's category, correct?
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and I maintain that any game that has anything to do with "hate" or "double voting" shouldn't be listed as a normal game. It is a complete deviation from the most basic, fundamental, rules of the game in way that I believe shouldn't be considered "normal."
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and I maintain that any game that has anything to do with "hate" or "double voting" shouldn't be listed as a normal game. It is a complete deviation from the most basic, fundamental, rules of the game in way that I believe shouldn't be considered "normal."
I don't think there's double-voting here.
The Hated and Loved powers are the only things not "ordinary" in any sense. I think Hated is accepted as a standard modifier at mafiascum, though. Plus, the set-up is open, so I think that's better than not.
There are too many VTs to be RMM, and there are no real Bastard elements, given it's an open set-up. I think regular mafia works for this.
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those are good points. I think I have a bias against "hated" ever since I was hated in ozle's first game and was lynched day1....
But I do think it is a role that needs to be treated very carefully, and I do think it probably has been here, as it is susceptible to manipulation.
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those are good points. I think I have a bias against "hated" ever since I was hated in ozle's first game and was lynched day1....
But I do think it is a role that needs to be treated very carefully, and I do think it probably has been here, as it is susceptible to manipulation.
What needs clarified somewhere is whether the person who is Hated knows they are Hated. (Same for Loved.)
If they know they are Hated, they can claim right away, and then there is wifom on whether they are Slytherin or not. A Hated fakeclaim is risky, but technically possible, too. But being able to claim it takes away the swinginess.
If the Hated/Loved modifiers are silent/passive, then you run into the annoyance factor. You can run everyone up to L-2 every day, but that's a pain, plus waiting around for vote counts, and only if the mod puts L-1 on the vote counts for you....
tldr: clarifying if the players have knowledge of being hated/loved.
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The loved/hated person will be informed of their new status and that it lasts one day.
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I am /in.
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We can /in? ME PLEASE
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Yeah.
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Looks great!
/in
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Just viewing for now.
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/in
My time constraints might make me regret this. Galzria with no sleep is grumpy. But I'll play anyway.
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/tag
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AWWW MAN i really wish I could /in but I've got 22-26 of this month with 0 access! DANG IT!
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Sign-up suspended! I found a fatal flaw, need to revise. Stay tuned.
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Sign-up suspended! stupified! I found a fatal flaw, need to revise. Stay tuned.
FIFY
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well, I'm /in.
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/in aga/in
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Super sad /out
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Super sad /out
:(
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Super sad /out
:(
:'(
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/in.
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Sign-up suspended! I found a fatal flaw, need to revise. Stay tuned.
bump -- Sorry, I'm working on it!
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Design revised. Open for sign-ups and comments.
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A couple of questions and two comments:
--For the Doctor role, can he doctor someone and hand out the 1-shot bulletproof the same night?
--In the ruleset, it names two specific houses that do things collectively, but in the setup, it says all houses get a vote. Was that a change?
I think the current setup favors town by quite a lot. Combined full watcher/tracker is really strong, and a full doctor, and 1-shot bulletproof against...3 goons? They can't even use the nighttime house lynching effectively since they aren't guaranteed to be in different houses, and they can't be in all four.
Also, you could easily force a survivor claim on D1 by making everyone say "I am in a House" and then having someone else confirm it. You could pre-cook confirmations on N0 (if there is talking then), so the Survivor would be caught in a lie or would just have to be honest, since he isn't allowed to post in any House QT.
I also think a strong Survivor player will be able to tell who the scum team is after a night's worth of House QT reading, since he can see all of them and compare notes. He could spill the beans early and see who agrees.
So all in all, I really think scum could be highly disadvantaged here; partly due to having zero PRs and partly due to the way the setup allows for them to possibly be caught quickly.
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the survivor is screwed. Mass houseclaim D1 to out him, and eventually, one of the factions is going to want the survivor dead.
Also, effective doublelynch for town. Choose a second player to lynch during the day, and at night if it doesn't happen you hunt down who didn't do it and lynch them.
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A couple of questions and two comments:
--For the Doctor role, can he doctor someone and hand out the 1-shot bulletproof the same night?
yes
--In the ruleset, it names two specific houses that do things collectively, but in the setup, it says all houses get a vote. Was that a change?
fixed
I think the current setup favors town by quite a lot. Combined full watcher/tracker is really strong, and a full doctor, and 1-shot bulletproof against...3 goons? They can't even use the nighttime house lynching effectively since they aren't guaranteed to be in different houses, and they can't be in all four.
Also, you could easily force a survivor claim on D1 by making everyone say "I am in a House" and then having someone else confirm it. You could pre-cook confirmations on N0 (if there is talking then), so the Survivor would be caught in a lie or would just have to be honest, since he isn't allowed to post in any House QT.
I also think a strong Survivor player will be able to tell who the scum team is after a night's worth of House QT reading, since he can see all of them and compare notes. He could spill the beans early and see who agrees.
So all in all, I really think scum could be highly disadvantaged here; partly due to having zero PRs and partly due to the way the setup allows for them to possibly be caught quickly.
I am considering eliminating the survivor and going back to a 12 person game.
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I might get rid of the IC, too. I keep wanting to do cool flavor things that don't work that well in open set-ups. I think I've played too much RMM recently.
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I think I'm going to have to /out do to an upcoming V/LA. But I'll still give comments on the setup.
I still think you should go back to the different houses with no head of house. I suggest axing the Survivor as well, I would hate to be him in this game.
I'd also still go with no town PRs and just have the house PRs. Makes things a whole lot simpler and tilts things back in scum's favor.
It's still your game, so you of course have the final say, but these are just my opinions.
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I might get rid of the IC, too. I keep wanting to do cool flavor things that don't work that well in open set-ups. I think I've played too much RMM recently.
Remember, the IC also gives one house an advantage in scumhunting, because they'll have a smaller pool to suspect.
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I think the current setup favors town by quite a lot. Combined full watcher/tracker is really strong, and a full doctor, and 1-shot bulletproof against...3 goons? They can't even use the nighttime house lynching effectively since they aren't guaranteed to be in different houses, and they can't be in all four.
Also, you could easily force a survivor claim on D1 by making everyone say "I am in a House" and then having someone else confirm it. You could pre-cook confirmations on N0 (if there is talking then), so the Survivor would be caught in a lie or would just have to be honest, since he isn't allowed to post in any House QT.
I also think a strong Survivor player will be able to tell who the scum team is after a night's worth of House QT reading, since he can see all of them and compare notes. He could spill the beans early and see who agrees.
So all in all, I really think scum could be highly disadvantaged here; partly due to having zero PRs and partly due to the way the setup allows for them to possibly be caught quickly.
I am considering eliminating the survivor and going back to a 12 person game.
It probably helps the set-up to drop the Survivor...but I think as is, scum's only real chance at winning was getting the survivor on their side from D1. But the problem with that is how easy it is to out the survivor and just kill him off later in the game.
I think the biggest balance issue at present is two very strong town PRs against zero scum PRs. Usually, Watchers and Trackers are hindered by needing to target either the target or the killer to catch scum. That's not an issue here, as the role is combined. In RMM, Watchers/Trackers are weakened by having many PRs that could target other players for a variety of reasons--again not an issue here due to there being just the Doctor who targets as town. Remember, scum can't fake claim Doctor if they are caught by the Watcher/Tracker because the target would be dead.
W/T targets A, sees "W/T, B" as results. A is dead. B can't say "you saw me because I'm the Doctor!" since A is dead. Another situation is W/T targets A, sees "W/T, B" and there is no kill. W/T can be pretty certain B is the Doctor. Even in a situation where W/T targets A, sees "W/T, B, C" and no kill, you lynch B and C in any order and still catch scum.
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I think I'm going to have to /out do to an upcoming V/LA. But I'll still give comments on the setup.
I still think you should go back to the different houses with no head of house. I suggest axing the Survivor as well, I would hate to be him in this game.
I'd also still go with no town PRs and just have the house PRs. Makes things a whole lot simpler and tilts things back in scum's favor.
It's still your game, so you of course have the final say, but these are just my opinions.
The House PR's were more fun, but unworkable. Mafia could know town's protection and watching plans and easily evade them.
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I can adjust the roles easily enough. What do you guys make of liopoil's double lynch idea? Do you see that as game breaking?
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What is liopoil's double lynch idea?
I think the easiest adjustment(s) to make include one or more of the following:
1) Make the Watcher/Tracker a Watcher OR a Tracker
2) Make the W/T and/or Doc X-Shot
3) Give mafia a Roleblocker
Combined with getting rid of Survivor and I think the balance is there.
On the house lynch thing, where you need all 4 houses to choose to lynch the same person at night...that makes it sound very unlikely, but will town use the days to plan the night lynches together? Scum could block it by not letting it be unanimous, but that puts them in the spotlight the next day, too. Scum could contribute to nighttime mislynches, as well, I guess. Seems like nights become a special type of day where you are limited in communication. Not necessarily unbalanced, but definitely shortens the game.
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/out for the time being, since I've just signed up for clue. I may rejoin depending on the progress of other games, though.
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I personally see the house lynch possibility as a little on the gimmicky side.... Kinda like Jorbles "chicken" posting in the chicken game. Not necessarily something that is bad or great. And not something that would make me /out of the game. But isn't really necessary?
mostly I see it as being something that is going to take up a whole lot of discussion during the game but ultimately amount to very little... And when I play for the scum hunting, it is kinda a distraction more than anything else. But I could be wrong and see it turn into something that could be more useful to either side.
PRs... I don't really like survivor in this context. 12 player would make scum a bit more powerful. And watcher/tracker.... I am actually kinda ok with that role (tracker is the stronger of the two while watcher is actually pretty weak), but I would suggest giving a PR to mafia of some sort and/or getting rid of the IC and nerfing the cop.
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ugh... again with the cop/doc typo thing... nerfing the doc... not the cop.
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/in
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At least I'll be able to claim Tracker again.
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nerfing?
The reason for the house votes is to create "mini-games" within the houses, and to make a challenge for Death Eaters to pursue their agenda while staying hidden.
The difficulty is if town decides to mandate what the Houses should vote. I think they would have a hard time agreeing on what to mandate. liopoil thinks it would result in two lynches a night.
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Nerfing = weakening
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Agree that the mini-games will result in more deaths more often.
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/out, for now at least. sorry!
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/out, for now at least. sorry!
:(
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Help me understand the vote fixer: On 2 nights, they choose one house (slytherin, say) and one player (Galz, say). That house's vote is then on Galz instead of whoever slytherin chose, right?
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Help me understand the vote fixer: On 2 nights, they choose one house (slytherin, say) and one player (Galz, say). That house's vote is then on Galz instead of whoever slytherin chose, right?
No, they just remove the Slytherin vote from Galz.
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Help me understand the vote fixer: On 2 nights, they choose one house (slytherin, say) and one player (Galz, say). That house's vote is then on Galz instead of whoever slytherin chose, right?
No, they just remove the Slytherin vote from Galz.
K thnx
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This makes me sad. There are only four players signed up for this... I know my game just started, but I really want this game to start so I can start playing again.
What do we think are the odds of this opening before my game ends? Sadly it looks kinda low.
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Intent to hammer, if that helps.
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This makes me sad. There are only four players signed up for this... I know my game just started, but I really want this game to start so I can start playing again.
What do we think are the odds of this opening before my game ends? Sadly it looks kinda low.
Yeah, all the games are filling slowly. I guess summer may have something to do with it. Innovation will also be ending eventually.
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I might /in after innovation, (or once I die)
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Since sign-ups are a bit slow and I have a micro mafia hopefully starting sooner (2 spots open!) and I'll be away Aug 5-10, this game will start sometime after Aug. 10th.
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/in
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I suppose i'll /in now innovation is over
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Knowing that this won't start until after my two v/las i will /in
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/in
just missed out on blitz. :'(
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I think I'm going to /out. I leave on August 27th and I don't really want to be in any mafia games then (during the school year). Sorry guys
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/in
just missed out on blitz. :'(
Sign up for Hansel and Gretel Blitz!
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I think I'm going to /out. I leave on August 27th and I don't really want to be in any mafia games then (during the school year). Sorry guys
Too bad. See you at Winter Break?
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Sign up for Hansel and Gretel Blitz!
No interest, sorry.
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/in. Might as well keep the streak going. Is this going to be a regular numeral game?
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/in. Might as well keep the streak going. Is this going to be a regular numeral game?
It is a regular numeral game.
EFHW, you should list me as the Hammerer for this game. You know I'll be the final /in to make sure it starts.
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/in. Might as well keep the streak going. Is this going to be a regular numeral game?
It is a regular numeral game.
EFHW, you should list me as the Hammerer for this game. You know I'll be the final /in to make sure it starts.
Why do you always hammer rather than just joining earlier? :P
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I think I'm going to /out. I leave on August 27th and I don't really want to be in any mafia games then (during the school year). Sorry guys
Too bad. See you at Winter Break?
Hahaha maybe :P We'll see. It's mostly because I'm going abroad and I don't know how my availability will be there rather than here...
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I think I'm going to /out. I leave on August 27th and I don't really want to be in any mafia games then (during the school year). Sorry guys
Too bad. See you at Winter Break?
Hahaha maybe :P We'll see. It's mostly because I'm going abroad and I don't know how my availability will be there rather than here...
Ooh, where to?
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All games in night...this needs to fill.
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Need players so we can get this rocking!
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Need players so we can get this rocking!
Surely there are three people out there who want to play...
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eevee? nkirbit? shraeye? raerae?
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Well, I'm dead in Clue, think I can be reborn as a wizard?
/in
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Well, I'm dead in Clue, think I can be reborn as a wizard?
/in
L-2.
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In.
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Actually, never mind. Out
Maybe if it still needs more in a little bit
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Well, I just had a horrible mafia day. I need to redeem myself!
In once again.
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Well, I just had a horrible mafia day. I need to redeem myself!
In once again.
L-1! someone HAMMMMMMMMMMMMMER
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Fine fine fine, in! :)
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Be town this time so we don't lynch you nkirbit!
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Also, yay, 3rd game. Here's to not dying.
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Boo EFHW for not sending PMs yet.
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hooray, it's full! PM's in the morning.
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While you're waiting, reread the set up carefully. I've changed it so often, it may no longer be exactly what you remember.
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Are permanent house votes ever publicized? I assume houses can't change them, but can add new ones each night?
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EFHW: I found an error: " At the start of Day, any Fix ordered by the Survivor will be applied"
You don't have a survivor anymore.
Also, I'm hoping I get to be vote-fixer for the name synergy alone.
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You'll want to specify if PRs can self-target, as well. I'm thinking Vote Fixer here.
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Oh, one last question before we start: Do we know if the Death Eaters are distributed evenly or not?
As in, are we guarunteed a max of 1 Death Eater per House, so 3 houses have 1 and 1 house is all town, or is it randomly distributed so that it's possible, however unlikely, that one house has all 3 Death Eaters and the others are all town, or that one house has 2, one has 1 and two houses are all town?
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Are permanent house votes ever publicized? I assume houses can't change them, but can add new ones each night?
yes, at each day start. only the fixer can change them.
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Oh, one last question before we start: Do we know if the Death Eaters are distributed evenly or not?
As in, are we guarunteed a max of 1 Death Eater per House, so 3 houses have 1 and 1 house is all town, or is it randomly distributed so that it's possible, however unlikely, that one house has all 3 Death Eaters and the others are all town, or that one house has 2, one has 1 and two houses are all town?
There is no guarantee of how the Death Eaters are distributed.
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You'll want to specify if PRs can self-target, as well. I'm thinking Vote Fixer here.
PR's cannot self-target.
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Oh, one last question before we start: Do we know if the Death Eaters are distributed evenly or not?
As in, are we guarunteed a max of 1 Death Eater per House, so 3 houses have 1 and 1 house is all town, or is it randomly distributed so that it's possible, however unlikely, that one house has all 3 Death Eaters and the others are all town, or that one house has 2, one has 1 and two houses are all town?
There is no guarantee of how the Death Eaters are distributed.
so random, yes?
if they were distributed one in a house then there would be 2 ICs after lynching a scum...
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yes random.
The PM's are taking a bit longer than expected, but before dinner for sure!
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There is no guarantee of how the Death Eaters are distributed.
so random, yes?
if they were distributed one in a house then there would be 2 ICs after lynching a scum...
[/quote]
Yeah, I like random. And PR's can't self-target. And all these clarifications. WHERE IS MY ROLE PM
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Yeah, just to clarify, so roles are distributed randomly (as normal) without regard to house? Like we each get a number 1-12 and then you roll and #3,8,9 are scum or whatever?
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Yeah, just to clarify, so roles are distributed randomly (as normal) without regard to house? Like we each get a number 1-12 and then you roll and #3,8,9 are scum or whatever?
That's right. Roles are completely independent of house. You are randomly assigned to houses, and then I do another random assignment of roles.
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Cool, thanks.
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the question is, WHEN is all this random assignment stuff going to happen?? ;)
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Just send me my PM.
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I was going to post the "it's happening" gif, but I think it might be possible for that to cause seizures in epileptics, so...
IT'S HAPPENING
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New Thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8981.new#new (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8981.new#new)
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Day 1 has started! Go to the new thread (see above) to play.