Welcome to Desperation Mafia, X. We are Desperate for some good ol' fashioned deduction games. But a small faction of our community is trying their hardest to prevent any more forum games from continuing. You need to root out the evil and allow our forum to continue to have forum games to our hearts' content. If you don't, mafia games will cease to exist.
Your win condition is to eliminate all threats to town.
Welcome to Desperation Mafia. You are your partner are sick of mafia games, especially here in the forum. It is time to stop them. No more forum games, this place is for Dominion you say. You and your partner will stop at nothing to get rid of this nuisance. You would even sink so low to infiltrate an ongoing mafia game. If you win, this could very well be the last mafia game every played in this forum.
You win when your faction controls the town or nothing can prevent that from occurring.
Roleblocker:
- Each night phase, you may attempt to block another player from performing their own action (if any).
Vanilla Cop:
- Each night phase, you may attempt to investigate another player. You will receive results of "Vanilla" or "Not Vanilla". Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will return the result of "Vanilla."
Tracker
- Each night phase, you may attempt to investigate another player. You will learn who the player you targeted during the night, but not what actions that player performed.
Rolecop
- Each night phase, you may attempt to investigate another player. You will learn what the role name of the player you targeted during the night. Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will return the result of "Vanilla.
Follower
- Each night you may attempt to investigate another player. You will learn what active actions that player performed (e.g. Killing, Protective), but not what player targeted them.
Jailkeeper
- Each night you may attempt to put another player in jail. You will simultaneously roleblock and protect that player from one nightkill.
1-Shot Strongman
- Once during the night you may select to use a strongman if you are the player performing the kill. If you do, nothing will be able to block your shot from going through.
Babysitter
- Each night you may attempt to protect another player. You will stop one kill targeting them from working. However, if you yourself are targeted for a kill, both of you will die.
Doctor
- Each night you may attempt to protect another player. You will stop one kill targeting them from working.
Vanilla Town
- You have no role. Just your voice and your vote.
What about QT quoting?
What about quoting from the Mafia QT?What about QT quoting?
I haven't fully decided. I want to be able to use QTs because I like having people submit Actions that way (easier as a mod to track and follow), but I don't want to open up the can of worms.
So. I am probably just going to say there won't be any QTs this game except for the usual Mafia Night QT. This is slightly subject to change. I'll make an official ruling soonish.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/67948444.jpg)
I accidentally created Untitled in Mafia Games too, and had it moved by theory.
I'm a different kind of doctor; can I still play?
eehh. I don't think I like this setup.
Might signup anyway, though. But RR's game should start first.
eehh. I don't think I like this setup.
Might signup anyway, though. But RR's game should start first.
Not trying to pressure you into joining or anything, but I am curious what you don't like about the setup. Since you are the only person who has expressed a dislike I don't think I will change it (if others join you in having concerns that could change), but any feedback or concerns would be appreciated if you are willing.
eehh. I don't think I like this setup.
Might signup anyway, though. But RR's game should start first.
Not trying to pressure you into joining or anything, but I am curious what you don't like about the setup. Since you are the only person who has expressed a dislike I don't think I will change it (if others join you in having concerns that could change), but any feedback or concerns would be appreciated if you are willing.
Oh, it's just preference. An SK and too many killing actions flying around. I think it'll have an even higher 'randomness' factor than most setups, which makes reads less important. But I don't see any real flaws or things you should change.
The SK is strong in this setup -- has to be lynched to lose.
Alright official rule updates, I'll update OP later:
SK will be 2-shot Bulletproof rather than pur Bulletproof.
The only official QT in the game will be the mafia QT. No other player will receive a mod created ormod approved QT. All non-mafia night actions will be submitted via PM.
I think this setup is much better with more players. Doctors, vigs....it just seems like it would work better with more players. I will still play a 9-player version, but would love for more players to sign up
Possible 9 player setups include:
9:12 mafia (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=09:12). Never run before on f.DS to my knowledge.
A rerun of Soap Opera Mafia (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14691.0) with gkrieg's input/approval.
Medical Mafia (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Medical_Mafia), previously run as M5.
Alright. In the interest of getting a game going I am changing this to a 9 player setup. There are currently 10 signed up. Priority will be given to the players that were signed up first. If any player that was signed up first declines to play those slots will open up to players who signed up after the first 9 or any players that have yet to sign up.
The setup that will be used will be 09:12 (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=09:12). The OPs will be updated shortly. None of the general game rules should change. Only the setup rules will change.
All players that are currently signed up should /re-in. I'll give players 24 hours to /re-in. Once that happens I'll send out PMs in which players will again have 24 hours to /re-in. After that time period any additional slots will be opened up to other players.
Alright. In the interest of getting a game going I am changing this to a 9 player setup. There are currently 10 signed up. Priority will be given to the players that were signed up first. If any player that was signed up first declines to play those slots will open up to players who signed up after the first 9 or any players that have yet to sign up.
The setup that will be used will be 09:12 (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=09:12). The OPs will be updated shortly. None of the general game rules should change. Only the setup rules will change.
All players that are currently signed up should /re-in. I'll give players 24 hours to /re-in. Once that happens I'll send out PMs in which players will again have 24 hours to /re-in. After that time period any additional slots will be opened up to other players.
err.. are you sure? /re-in anyways, but doesn't this have to wait until RR's game is in Night 1 anyway?
I'm still /in or /re-in for whatever format this game is in.
vote: Haddock for math puns(http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9aem43NNe1qmemweo2_250.gif)
vote: Awaclus for RVSing someone not in the game (real vote)
vote: i^2
He's gotta be scum. I mean, get real.
And with that. Night all!
vote: Awaclus for RVSing someone not in the game (real vote)
But I can't be scum. I wasn't scum in Futuramafia.
mod
vote: Awaclus for RVSing someone not in the game (real vote)
But I can't be scum. I wasn't scum in Futuramafia.
I see you're already trying to distract people from the fact that you were scum with silver in Fish Mafia.
My evil plan is to get everyone to distort my name into something that the mod can't recognize.
Very likely that the first scum has spoken by now if not both. Which one of you is it?
Very likely that the first scum has spoken by now if not both. Which one of you is it?
What's your logic on that?
Let's compute some pointless probabilities!
oh no i'm scared 8)
Unvote
L-2 wtf guys?
But this isn't mayo clinic anymore. And there's like 9 players.Unvote
L-2 wtf guys?
You were the one who put him there! And L-2 doesn't mean anything.
So what's wrong with L-2?Quicklynches!
Very likely that the first scum has spoken by now if not both. Which one of you is it?
Was your vote for iguana sincere?It was RVS
Hi everyone!
Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
Alright, time to get serious.
First of all, I have precedent for being goofy at the beginning of the game as town and getting lynched for it. See Harry Potter Mafia II. I'm not dead yet though, which means people (including me) are being a bit more reasonable this time; that's a good thing.
My goal in everything I said was to give us all something to go on so that we wouldn't be stuck in RVS too long - which can be a problem in small, normal games, particularly right now when F.DS mafia isn't exactly a hot item.
That being said, I don't particularly suspect ADK for pursuing my lynch. He's going off the best information he has right now, which is a small collection of posts by me that I guess look scummy in an obvious way.
My question to ADK is: What exactly is the scum narrative for me behaving like this at the beginning of the game?
Was your vote for iguana sincere?It was RVS
Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
Is this a second RVS vote? Roadrunner starts every game this way.
Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
Is this a second RVS vote? Roadrunner starts every game this way.
So you're his scum partner! What was he trying to communicate to you?
Alright, time to get serious.
First of all, I have precedent for being goofy at the beginning of the game as town and getting lynched for it. See Harry Potter Mafia II. I'm not dead yet though, which means people (including me) are being a bit more reasonable this time; that's a good thing.
My goal in everything I said was to give us all something to go on so that we wouldn't be stuck in RVS too long - which can be a problem in small, normal games, particularly right now when F.DS mafia isn't exactly a hot item.
That being said, I don't particularly suspect ADK for pursuing my lynch. He's going off the best information he has right now, which is a small collection of posts by me that I guess look scummy in an obvious way.
My question to ADK is: What exactly is the scum narrative for me behaving like this at the beginning of the game?
Being conscious of how you have precedent in behaving as town does not a town tell make.
First of all, I have precedent for being goofy at the beginning of the game as town and getting lynched for it. See Harry Potter Mafia II.
My question to ADK is: What exactly is the scum narrative for me behaving like this at the beginning of the game?
Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
Is this a second RVS vote? Roadrunner starts every game this way.
So you're his scum partner! What was he trying to communicate to you?
He was saying hi. Not just to me though, to everyone.
Memeing is a scum tell.(http://cdn2.list25.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/deaf1.jpg)
Vote: Haddock
Alright, time to get serious.
I agree it's townie. That doesn't make it NOT an appeal to my emotions.
Vote: haddockThat's totally absurd. No way am I ever leaving an RVS vote up on someone if other people are actually voting for him for stated reasons that I disagree with.
Sure, that vote was rvs, but the method of unvote and the whole feel of the post leans scum
Vote: haddockThat's totally absurd. No way am I ever leaving an RVS vote up on someone if other people are actually voting for him for stated reasons that I disagree with.
Sure, that vote was rvs, but the method of unvote and the whole feel of the post leans scum
vote: e
I don't think the case on II is a good one so far. [......] I'm withholding judgement at this point.You say the case is bad, then you say you are withholding judgement. So you leave the door open for him to be scum, but you unvote.
L-1
My question to ADK is: What exactly is the scum narrative for me behaving like this at the beginning of the game?
Scum wants to appear active, but is nervous about committing to reads or saying the wrong thing, and so is more likely to maintain a joke-y attitude. Responding to votes on you as if they're not serious is also a scum tell, attempting to defuse a wagon and looked "relaxed".
Jeez.
I am going for an evening shower and will say something about this lunacy when I return.
Try not to lynch me before then.
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
Must resist urge to slamma jamma hamma time, but showering before posting is scummy scum scum (gotta wash the scum smell off).
OK, serious face now. I don't think the case against II is a good one so far. He has been lynched early and stupidly too often recently, he's right. I'm withholding judgement at this point.And the reasons this is scummy:
So I guess I'd better unvote since there are proper votes on him now.
I have no other reads so far.
And like, the whole "not voting for someone because I don't like the case others are presenting" is silly in my opinion. People can have different reasons for thinking people are scum.either misrepresents me or misunderstands me, I'm not sure which. It's not that I think II is scummy and I'm avoiding voting II because some other people have presented a case I think is bad. It's that I don't think II has been scummy. Clear enough? Obviously if someone presents a case that I find convincing or I come up with such a case then I will vote appropriately.
Just because one case is "bad" doesn't mean the conclusion is wrongIs basically summarising my hedgey position, right? I mean, what I'm saying is "I don't like the current case, not voting right now, but another case might come up later to convince me the conclusion is correct". Which is exactly what you're saying here.
Gkrieg and e are making sense. It makes me a little nervous that e and Haddock are OMGUSing again becuase they always do that and often when they are both town.Namely his legitimate-sounding worry about me and e OMGUSing.
That's all I've got for now.
vote: Haddock
The hedging is bad, but I still don't have scummy vibes from iguana
I like e so far, ADK stays fairly townie, but it is always hard for me to read him D1. He usually does something extremely scummy as scum, so I'm giving him a town pass until he does that.
Small games are not good for people who are scared of voting.
Haddock is clearly town.
vote: rr
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
vote: rr
Why?
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
Didn't see this before. Yeah chairs.
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
Didn't see this before. Yeah chairs.
Really? I'm not finding chairs scummy at all.
Town on Haddock by the way for doing a D1 read post which I know is outside his comfort zone
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
Didn't see this before. Yeah chairs.
Really? I'm not finding chairs scummy at all.
This feels like an arbitrary town assignment:Town on Haddock by the way for doing a D1 read post which I know is outside his comfort zone
Well, a made-up reason for a town assignment.
I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
Didn't see this before. Yeah chairs.
Really? I'm not finding chairs scummy at all.
This feels like an arbitrary town assignment:Town on Haddock by the way for doing a D1 read post which I know is outside his comfort zone
Well, a made-up reason for a town assignment.
That doesn't look that made up to me, even if I disagree with it. A more made-up read is Haddock's town read on Awaclus for reasoning that should be a null read, which looks like he got to the end of his read list and went "crap, I have to have a town read on someone". chairs looked like he put at least some thought into that.
Well, I don't agree.
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
On what merits?
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
On what merits?
Very early big wagon; I think scum is going to want to play it more low key and hope the spotlight on him moves on. This was a big post, had some real analysis, felt honest with reads and such, shows evidence of actual deliberation. Big posts aren't necessarily townie, but if you're scum in that situation, it's harder to write so much, because you're on the verge of being lynched.. you tend to think everything you write is just going to make you look so scummy. So it's hard to make a genuine-sounding post that has content.
Backed off e and went to RR.. that could go either way I guess.
Are you thinking of specific scum game(s) from Haddock?
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
On what merits?
Very early big wagon; I think scum is going to want to play it more low key and hope the spotlight on him moves on. This was a big post, had some real analysis, felt honest with reads and such, shows evidence of actual deliberation. Big posts aren't necessarily townie, but if you're scum in that situation, it's harder to write so much, because you're on the verge of being lynched.. you tend to think everything you write is just going to make you look so scummy. So it's hard to make a genuine-sounding post that has content.
Backed off e and went to RR.. that could go either way I guess.
Are you thinking of specific scum game(s) from Haddock?
No, but I do remember reading scum games of his where he's made similar big posts defending himself. Maybe his first game?
RR is freaking out about votes for no reason which is pretty much classic RR. I don't like haddock voting for him, meta wise that's like the safest vote ever.Weird. One of my reasons for voting for him was because I think he hasn't been freaking out like he usually would... I say again what I said to somebody in a game recently - that I would probably avoid voting RR as scum, it's too transparent. My ability to read RR is definitely weakening of late. Who knows.
A more made-up read is Haddock's town read on Awaclus for reasoning that should be a null read, which looks like he got to the end of his read list and went "crap, I have to have a town read on someone". chairs looked like he put at least some thought into that.Goes without saying I guess, but I didn't make up my Awaclus read. But I do see your point here. Lately I think I'm finding Awa towny too easily, I think because I'm aware of how easy it is to see his usual behaviour as scummy. Overcompensating, if that makes sense. With Awaclus I think you basically always have to go with gut. And gut is what I got right now. I don't want to lynch Awa today.
For the sake of getting more conversation going: haddock, is there a reason you left me off your reads list?Think I just forgot, sorry. Then again I'm not sure I can offer anything on you now. I've played two games with you I believe, one where we were scum partners and one (Walking Dead) which was a crazy RMM and I died N1. Very little to go on based on that. I'd probably gut read you as slightly scummy, but really I think that's just me having a negative reaction to your very confident/brusque (no offense meant, sorry) conversational style. I've had similar gut scum reads be wrong about people like ash/WW before...
so people need to look at the content of your reads, which I would argue is lacking here.It seems to me I've now offered more in terms of reads than any other player. So I can only assume you're disagreeing with my reads. Probably RR? I guess that's my most controversial.
I'm not posting that much because I've been on a class trip to DC and you have more fingers than hours of sleep I've gotten since Tuesday.
Vote: chairs
I like haddock's defense. I am not entirely convinced he is town, but it is enough to look elsewhere for now.
I feel inspired to post more.
Awaclus- why the iguana vote?
I feel inspired to post more.
Awaclus- why the iguana vote?
Because I'm Awaclus and I think it's pro-town to not explain my votes.
I'm not posting that much because I've been on a class trip to DC and you have more fingers than hours of sleep I've gotten since Tuesday.
I feel inspired to post more.
Awaclus- why the iguana vote?
Because I'm Awaclus and I think it's pro-town to not explain my votes.
This kind of stubbornness only comes from town!Awa
Okay, maybe there wasn't one post.
But ADK doesn't usually play extra aggressive, right? I think that's more suspicious seeing how small this game is.
Vote: ADK
Ppe
Okay, maybe there wasn't one post.
But ADK doesn't usually play extra aggressive, right? I think that's more suspicious seeing how small this game is.
Vote: ADK
Ppe
I disagree with your assessment that unexplained votes are pro town.
L-1 again?
Can we look at ADK? He's put two people at Ls and there's something else I saw that I didn't like. I'll find it.
L-1 again?
Can we look at ADK? He's put two people at Ls and there's something else I saw that I didn't like. I'll find it.
Embrace the L. The L is your friend.
vote: haddock
If it's going to be between the two of us, I know for sure I'm town so I must by needs lynch the alternative.
Mine narrative is simple. My deeds are Town, and foul Mafia doth seek to put shame upon mine House in a dastardly plot. Seek truth within thine soul, mine townsfolk, my kinsmen, and ye shall know it to be true.
Wait, what joke did I make that was in poor taste?The one about showering being scummy. Basically, I get irrationally annoyed in any game (but particularly social deception games) where people tie ingame characteristics to IRL personal characteristics. I don't know why exactly, I just do. This is not your fault, it's just a thing I have.
OK yeah assuming that could explain things. That might convince me to move my vote if I can think of somewhere better to put it. I think it could maybe end up on gkrieg here.I'm not posting that much because I've been on a class trip to DC and you have more fingers than hours of sleep I've gotten since Tuesday.
Good enough for me, I'd say a vote for Roadrunner right now is a bad vote.
Vote: chairsCould I point something out, namely the hedginess of this? I don't think hedging D1 is a scumtell at all, so it doesn't really affect anything, I just wanted to make the point really. I think e is towny but he's hedging, therefore hedging=not a scumtell.
I like haddock's defense. I am not entirely convinced he is town, but it is enough to look elsewhere for now.
Also I feel like I haven't gotten my dose of RR yet.So I wasn't the only one!
Generally progressing the conversation and forming reads with explanationis his most recent post and is very close to being outright false. The only explained read he has given is finding me town, for quote "Doing something outside my comfort zone". Is that a thing? Maybe. I dunno.
I've clearly led us to a meaningful game state, whether or not you agree, since I'm at L-1.
Yep ok no gkrieg isn't particularly scummy. He could maybe do to contribute more of his own thoughts rather than just question others about theirs but my scummy vibes were just grounded in omgus I think. Mildly towny overall, moving the game on, etc.
I want to point out this post:Also I feel like I haven't gotten my dose of RR yet.So I wasn't the only one!
vote: haddock
If it's going to be between the two of us, I know for sure I'm town so I must by needs lynch the alternative.
Does chairs ever have an early wagon on him?
Does chairs ever have an early wagon on him?
I don't think he usually gets really wagons. Most of the time it is a D2 or D3 kind of thing
I was lynched in Harry Potter mafia day 1 as scum.
I can remember several posts of yours which were just pushing other people about things, not contributing reads. When I'm at a PC I will go through and find quotes.Yep ok no gkrieg isn't particularly scummy. He could maybe do to contribute more of his own thoughts rather than just question others about theirs but my scummy vibes were just grounded in omgus I think. Mildly towny overall, moving the game on, etc.
I want to point out this post:Also I feel like I haven't gotten my dose of RR yet.So I wasn't the only one!
I'm pretty sure almost every one of my posts have been reads, which is contributing stuff
vote: Awaclus for RVSing someone not in the game (real vote)Is really really bizarre. Since when was this justification for a vote?
Scum wants to appear active, but is nervous about committing to reads or saying the wrong thing, and so is more likely to maintain a joke-y attitude. Responding to votes on you as if they're not serious is also a scum tell, attempting to defuse a wagon and looked "relaxed".There's truth in that, and note that e opened with a joke! I'm seeing a bit of scumminess in e actually, but more on that later.
RR is freaking out about votes for no reason which is pretty much classic RR. I don't like haddock voting for him, meta wise that's like the safest vote ever.feels forced, and isn't true as far as I can tell. I still don't like it.
Do you stand by this, ADK?I like the case on Haddock but hammering on the first day would be absolutely awful. I'd like to hear Haddock's reads.
So is someone else scummy?
Didn't see this before. Yeah chairs.
Really? I'm not finding chairs scummy at all.
For the sake of getting more conversation going: haddock, is there a reason you left me off your reads list?This is probably a towny post.
...OK then.
vote: iguana
Actually vote: chairs I'm starting to see the scumming. L-1That quick a change would be something scum would avoid.Quote
Okay, maybe there wasn't one post.
But ADK doesn't usually play extra aggressive, right? I think that's more suspicious seeing how small this game is.
Vote: ADK
Ppe
Why chairs? So what, he's jokey. I'm jokey and I don't get lynched. I've contributed nothing but a case on ADK that no one cared about, but no one seems to want to lynch me.
I think gunning for a lynch in a 9 player game is about the scummiest thing you can do. It warrants 1 vote at least.Why chairs? So what, he's jokey. I'm jokey and I don't get lynched. I've contributed nothing but a case on ADK that no one cared about, but no one seems to want to lynch me.
This is an odd defense. And what? You made a case on adk? Totally missed that. Probably because it wasn't that much of a "case." (Went and found it)
PPE. I need to read some of RR's games, but I would say that asking why he hasn't been lynched is a scumtell for him.
Awa why are you voting iguana then? Or is that an error in my count?PPE. I need to read some of RR's games, but I would say that asking why he hasn't been lynched is a scumtell for him.
Yeah, he's definitely scum here.
I can get behind that.Wait...why?
vote: rr
Awa why are you voting iguana then? Or is that an error in my count?
I'm not going to be able to defend myself because I'm bad.
I can give WW and gkrieg a chance to chime in.By 'we' I mean town.
PPE: by "we" do you mean "scum"?
Why chairs? So what, he's jokey. I'm jokey and I don't get lynched. I've contributed nothing but a case on ADK that no one cared about, but no one seems to want to lynch me.
If chairs is town, that is the scummiest of scummy hammers.
I don't think it was dumb, I think it was scummy (again, IF chairs is town). I mean: "Aw man I would have hammered." <vote> "Oh that has the hammer? Huh, cool!". me no like.If chairs is town, that is the scummiest of scummy hammers.
No it's not, it was just the dumbest of dumb hammers. RR and iguana are still scummier.
I didn't think the case on chairs was particularly good
I don't think it was dumb, I think it was scummy (again, IF chairs is town). I mean: "Aw man I would have hammered." <vote> "Oh that has the hammer? Huh, cool!". me no like.If chairs is town, that is the scummiest of scummy hammers.
No it's not, it was just the dumbest of dumb hammers. RR and iguana are still scummier.
This is actually dumb though.
For once, there is literally no case on me.
It doesn't go both ways. If my thing on ADK isn't a case, that's fine. You have the right to call that not a case. But I have the right to also say there is no case on me. You may think I am wrong. That's okay.This is actually dumb though.
For once, there is literally no case on me.
I made the case actually. So did Haddock and some others. I like my case, stop calling it not a case.
It doesn't go both ways. If my thing on ADK isn't a case, that's fine. You have the right to call that not a case. But I have the right to also say there is no case on me. You may think I am wrong. That's okay.This is actually dumb though.
For once, there is literally no case on me.
I made the case actually. So did Haddock and some others. I like my case, stop calling it not a case.
Dude, part of the case on you is the fact that you said "Look at this case on me, why am I not being lynched for it?"It doesn't go both ways. If my thing on ADK isn't a case, that's fine. You have the right to call that not a case. But I have the right to also say there is no case on me. You may think I am wrong. That's okay.This is actually dumb though.
For once, there is literally no case on me.
I made the case actually. So did Haddock and some others. I like my case, stop calling it not a case.
It doesn't go both ways. If my thing on ADK isn't a case, that's fine. You have the right to call that not a case. But I have the right to also say there is no case on me. You may think I am wrong. That's okay.
I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
Why is this bad? I honestly don't get it, e, it's like you're determined to find me scummy. WW is this also what swung you?I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
Gah. That was an unfortunate lynch.
vote:RR is good here I think.
this is L-1. Let's hold off on the hammer, OK? We need some decent discussion here.Why is this bad? I honestly don't get it, e, it's like you're determined to find me scummy. WW is this also what swung you?I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
Gah. That was an unfortunate lynch.
vote:RR is good here I think.
this is L-1. Let's hold off on the hammer, OK? We need some decent discussion here.Why is this bad? I honestly don't get it, e, it's like you're determined to find me scummy. WW is this also what swung you?I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
Gah. That was an unfortunate lynch.
vote:RR is good here I think.
this is L-1. Let's hold off on the hammer, OK? We need some decent discussion here.Why is this bad? I honestly don't get it, e, it's like you're determined to find me scummy. WW is this also what swung you?I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
Putting your counter wagon at L-1, then telling people not to hammer seems like a thinly disguised ploy for towncred.
Vote: Haddock I'm not gunna let your scumbuddy hammer this one.
It's more that it indicated a mindset that Chairs was town. The hammer wouldn't have been bad if Chairs was scum.Dude. There's a CONDITIONAL in the quote. It says "IF chairs is town". Being prepared for the worst case scenario is not scummy.
Hah. There was no counter-wagon til that vote. One vote does not a wagon make.Gah. That was an unfortunate lynch.
vote:RR is good here I think.
this is L-1. Let's hold off on the hammer, OK? We need some decent discussion here.Why is this bad? I honestly don't get it, e, it's like you're determined to find me scummy. WW is this also what swung you?I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
Putting your counter wagon at L-1, then telling people not to hammer seems like a thinly disguised ploy for towncred.
Vote: Haddock I'm not gunna let your scumbuddy hammer this one.
Day2 Starts Now
ADK was killed during the night. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting: (7) gkrieg, RR, WW, Awaclus, iguana, 2.7, Haddock
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day2 will last for 7 days.
Thread Unlocked
Everyone is saying that chairs was obviously town, but I don't really believe that. If he was town, why were there still so many people on that wagon?
Everyone is saying that chairs was obviously town, but I don't really believe that. If he was town, why were there still so many people on that wagon?
Because those people were making a stupid mistake.
Everyone is saying that chairs was obviously town, but I don't really believe that. If he was town, why were there still so many people on that wagon?
Because those people were making a stupid mistake.
I guess it is that WW is saying that he was town
It's more that it indicated a mindset that Chairs was town. The hammer wouldn't have been bad if Chairs was scum.
So I would say either e, WW, or RR is scum. I'll look at it more when I get to a computer
WW, why don't you like a Roadrunner vote?
Town!ADK re-read:So this, to me, makes gkrieg more townish? I think as scum you'd avoid killing a respected player who has literally just scumread you. As scum you'd feel like killing ADK there would put a spotlight on you.
First real vote is for e.
Switches to me when I start joking around.
Gets convinced by the Haddock wagon.
Briefly switches back to me, then Chairs saying he can see the scumming.
Decides he has intent to hammer Roadrunner after the case on him is made, still voting chairs though.
Says he'll wait until Gkrieg and WW chime in before hammering Roadrunner.
Gkrieg hammers chairs without giving ADK a chance to say anything.
ADK's last words: "That was... pretty scummy" (referring to Gkrieg)
So ADK scumread me, Haddock and Roadrunner mainly. Then put a scumread on Gkrieg before getting killed at night.
Oh, and PPE, from what I just said, ii, I think you wouldn't have killed Awa there for exactly the reason above.
Awaclus, if I was scum, I would have killed you.
Except look at my one scum game. All I do is kill the people who scumread me, plain a simple. It loses me the game, but I can't help it. I hate people calling me scum, and when I have the power to kill them, I do.
Except look at my one scum game. All I do is kill the people who scumread me, plain a simple. It loses me the game, but I can't help it. I hate people calling me scum, and when I have the power to kill them, I do.
It would be trivial for you to do the exact opposite in this game, given that you only have one past scum game.
I think Iguana is seeming town now.
I think Iguana is seeming town now.
And it's probably not even just because I would have totally killed Awaclus!
no time to post but since adk died doesnt that make me seem more towny
??? ::) :-X 8)I think Iguana is seeming town now.
And it's probably not even just because I would have totally killed Awaclus!
You should probably stop saying that. Although I am also leaning town on you
Awaclus, if I was scum, I would have killed you.
RR just doesn't seem scummy to me this game. Of the current wagons, I would much rather put haddock at L-1
vote: Haddock
L-1
RR just doesn't seem scummy to me this game. Of the current wagons, I would much rather put haddock at L-1
vote: Haddock
L-1
Are you kidding me?
RR just doesn't seem scummy to me this game. Of the current wagons, I would much rather put haddock at L-1
vote: Haddock
L-1
Are you kidding me?
Vote: Iguanaiguana
This kid is actually scum. When I'm dead, take him out
Vote: Iguanaiguana
This kid is actually scum. When I'm dead, take him out
I get the OMGUS, but gkrieg is a much better lynch than iguana
Seriously though.
Vote: Iguanaiguana
This kid is actually scum. When I'm dead, take him out
I'm really really liking II's read things here. Big town points for him.
I'm getting all paranoid about my RR read here. Maybe I just can't read him any more, I dunno.
I'm leaning scummier on gkrieg too. The more I think about it the more I think the scummy hammer might just be coming from scum.
Gah. I don't know any more. Gonna reread for a bit.
vote: Iguanaiguanais super lazy, and RR then unvotes and does weird things. I actually think this is a null/town tell for RR. It's one of the weird things he does that I thought were missing from his game - there weren't enough of them.
oh hey. sorry, I started playing dominion and got distracted. Its been quite the adventure this afternoon
and we have an L-2? good times.
Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
That and II's first defensive post leave me a bit flummoxed. I mean, why does II think RR needs defending?Hi everyone!
Vote: Roadrunner
Clearly trying to communicate something to his scum partner here.
Is this a second RVS vote? Roadrunner starts every game this way.
So you're his scum partner! What was he trying to communicate to you?
He was saying hi. Not just to me though, to everyone.
Vote: haddockis a bad vote, and this:
Sure, that vote was rvs, but the method of unvote and the whole feel of the post leans scum
Vote: Haddockis sheepy. So e and WW look bad to me there.
Must resist urge to slamma jamma hamma time, but showering before posting is scummy scum scum (gotta wash the scum smell off).
RR is freaking out about votes for no reason which is pretty much classic RR.RR has not freaked out about votes on him like normal this game. At least not til very recently.
Small games are not good for people who are scared of voting.Wouldn't RR usually give his reasons for finding someone town? I don't expect it from Awa but I do from RR I think.
Haddock is clearly town.
Town on Haddock by the way for doing a D1 read post which I know is outside his comfort zone
is like, the first WW post that I agree with.Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
On what merits?
Very early big wagon; I think scum is going to want to play it more low key and hope the spotlight on him moves on. This was a big post, had some real analysis, felt honest with reads and such, shows evidence of actual deliberation. Big posts aren't necessarily townie, but if you're scum in that situation, it's harder to write so much, because you're on the verge of being lynched.. you tend to think everything you write is just going to make you look so scummy. So it's hard to make a genuine-sounding post that has content.
Backed off e and went to RR.. that could go either way I guess.
I did not white knight faust that game. I was misrepresented on that front from start to finish.His first game when he white knighted faustAre you thinking of specific scum game(s) from Haddock?
No, but I do remember reading scum games of his where he's made similar big posts defending himself. Maybe his first game?
Vote: chairshedgetyhedge
I like haddock's defense. I am not entirely convinced he is town, but it is enough to look elsewhere for now.
I could jump on the chairs wagon, but I like the amHaddock wagon more.Scummy. ^
Feelin townie on e
Ridiculous question ^.Vote: chairs
I like haddock's defense. I am not entirely convinced he is town, but it is enough to look elsewhere for now.
What do you like about the defense?
Okay, maybe there wasn't one post.Still so bad even after all this.
But ADK doesn't usually play extra aggressive, right? I think that's more suspicious seeing how small this game is.
Vote: ADK
Ppe
I'm not seeing anything to make me want to go away from Chairs.Bad bad bad.
We don't deserve to win this game, do we?feels like a grab for town points.
Man it would be so nice if my gut was right and gkrieg/RR are the scumteam.I didn't think the case on chairs was particularly good
That is supposed to say the case on rr wasn't good
My thoughts for Day 1:
ADK - Very likely town
Awaclus -- Well within his town meta.
Witherweaver - I've read a few of his scum games and a lot of his town games and he seems very town here.
Haddock - Seemed scummy at first, then provided some really useful info. Feeling much less scum on him now.
e - I could go either way. Leaning town though.
Gkrieg - Seemed towny at first, but hammering chairs seems really bad when momentum was shifting to Roadrunner. Gkrieg, what was up with that?
Chairs & Roadrunner seem scummiest. I'm happy we lynched one of them, but obviously would have preferred Roadrunner given that I changed my vote. Good chance Chairs is town considering how the wagons played out and the weird Gkrieg hammer.
I don't have a ton of time to do a re-read here but I will try to do one early D2 and see what I can find.
UnvoteThanks. :) <wipes sweat off of brow>
oh no i'm scared 8)
Unvote
L-2 wtf guys?
oh hey. sorry, I started playing dominion and got distracted. Its been quite the adventure this afternoon
Alright, time to get serious.
First of all, I have precedent for being goofy at the beginning of the game as town and getting lynched for it. See Harry Potter Mafia II. I'm not dead yet though, which means people (including me) are being a bit more reasonable this time; that's a good thing.
My goal in everything I said was to give us all something to go on so that we wouldn't be stuck in RVS too long - which can be a problem in small, normal games, particularly right now when F.DS mafia isn't exactly a hot item.
That being said, I don't particularly suspect ADK for pursuing my lynch. He's going off the best information he has right now, which is a small collection of posts by me that I guess look scummy in an obvious way.
My question to ADK is: What exactly is the scum narrative for me behaving like this at the beginning of the game?
Memeing is a scum tell.(http://cdn2.list25.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/deaf1.jpg)
Vote: Haddock
OK, serious face now. I don't think the case against II is a good one so far. He has been lynched early and stupidly too often recently, he's right. I'm withholding judgement at this point.
So I guess I'd better unvote since there are proper votes on him now.
I have no other reads so far.
Vote: haddock
Sure, that vote was rvs, but the method of unvote and the whole feel of the post leans scum
RR is freaking out about votes for no reason which is pretty much classic RR. I don't like haddock voting for him, meta wise that's like the safest vote ever.
vote: chairs
Small games are not good for people who are scared of voting.
Haddock is clearly town.
Chairs:
1) Hasn't said much, that's normal for him.
2) Answered for me to WW that my post was an 'appeal to emotion' -- This felt like a cheap way to undercut what I was saying and subtly push others toward scum reading me.
3) Hedged when questioned about previous appeal to emotion post - saying I 'still looked townie,' despite the post. This seemed a bit off to me.
4) unexplained vote on rr feel opportunistic.
This adds up to a mild scum read and my best vote for now.
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
On what merits?
Very early big wagon; I think scum is going to want to play it more low key and hope the spotlight on him moves on. This was a big post, had some real analysis, felt honest with reads and such, shows evidence of actual deliberation. Big posts aren't necessarily townie, but if you're scum in that situation, it's harder to write so much, because you're on the verge of being lynched.. you tend to think everything you write is just going to make you look so scummy. So it's hard to make a genuine-sounding post that has content.
Backed off e and went to RR.. that could go either way I guess.
At least for me, a big post isn't something I do more as either alignment, it's just something I do at L-1
Are you thinking of specific scum game(s) from Haddock?
No, but I do remember reading scum games of his where he's made similar big posts defending himself. Maybe his first game?
His first game when he white knighted faust
This is Awa's first vote on RR. Has he ever changed position on RR? This worries me. Scum!Awa would mean RR is probably town here, and town!Awa tunnelling people is pretty often wrong from what I remember.
If chairs is town, that is the scummiest of scummy hammers.
I don't think it was dumb, I think it was scummy (again, IF chairs is town). I mean: "Aw man I would have hammered." <vote> "Oh that has the hammer? Huh, cool!". me no like.If chairs is town, that is the scummiest of scummy hammers.
No it's not, it was just the dumbest of dumb hammers. RR and iguana are still scummier.
I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
No, it ISN'T! How many times do I have to say this? This was exactly false from ADK. RR was not freaking out nearly enough by his usual standards, which was a big part of my reason for voting him.RR is freaking out about votes for no reason which is pretty much classic RR. I don't like haddock voting for him, meta wise that's like the safest vote ever.
This is a good point.
This was my 3rd post and very early in the game. I'm not going to repeat my arguments about how my hedginess D1 is normal.Memeing is a scum tell.(http://cdn2.list25.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/deaf1.jpg)
Vote: Haddock
OK, serious face now. I don't think the case against II is a good one so far. He has been lynched early and stupidly too often recently, he's right. I'm withholding judgement at this point.
So I guess I'd better unvote since there are proper votes on him now.
I have no other reads so far.
Dislike.
FWIW I think I already mentioned how I didn't like this post either.Small games are not good for people who are scared of voting.
Haddock is clearly town.
Dislike.
Lynch today should be Iguana or Gkrieg.
How could you possibly think that chairs was scum when Roadrunner was the alternative wagon?
Vote: RR
Final Day1 Vote Count
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Not Voting: (0)
chairs has been lynched. He was a Town Vanilla Cop. Night1 begins now. Players with night actions, please PM me your actions. All other players please "check-in" by also PMing the mod before the end of Night1. Day2 will not start until all players have checked in or have been replaced, if necessary. Night2 will last about 48 hours.
Thread Locked!
PPE - WW. Yeah, believe it or not town people are also aware that "implying that you already know someone is town" is seen as scummy, so they also avoid doing it.
vote: WW
I really think it is between him and e. One of those two just had to be scum
I was thinking about it because I think it's useful (even in twilight) to discuss how scummy-or-not hammers are. Obviously if scum gets hammered it's probably not a scummy hammer (most of the time). So you have to talk about the hypothetical where the person being hammered is town.PPE - WW. Yeah, believe it or not town people are also aware that "implying that you already know someone is town" is seen as scummy, so they also avoid doing it.
Fair enough, but why are you even thinking about it at all? It seems like you felt a need have a reaction to the lynch.
Nevermind, I don't like the case of Gkrieg.
Vote: Roadrunner
But it was at the beginning of the day, one of the first posts. There was no 'case'.Oh yeah, I see. Dunno. By the looks of it he's thinking about voting gkrieg on the back of the bad hammer, but then looking closer decides that's not enough of a case. That's how I'd interpret it. But it would definitely be good if II could come and clarify, just in case. I don't want to put words in his mouth.
Were you seriously not aware of this? There was even intent to hammer RR...Final Day1 Vote Count
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Not Voting: (0)
chairs has been lynched. He was a Town Vanilla Cop. Night1 begins now. Players with night actions, please PM me your actions. All other players please "check-in" by also PMing the mod before the end of Night1. Day2 will not start until all players have checked in or have been replaced, if necessary. Night2 will last about 48 hours.
Thread Locked!
Oh, hey.. both RR and Chairs were at L-1.
Were you seriously not aware of this? There was even intent to hammer RR...Final Day1 Vote Count
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Not Voting: (0)
chairs has been lynched. He was a Town Vanilla Cop. Night1 begins now. Players with night actions, please PM me your actions. All other players please "check-in" by also PMing the mod before the end of Night1. Day2 will not start until all players have checked in or have been replaced, if necessary. Night2 will last about 48 hours.
Thread Locked!
Oh, hey.. both RR and Chairs were at L-1.
Presumably "of"="on"
This actually makes a lot of sense to me, at least at first glance. I will think on it.Presumably "of"="on"
Yes, of = on.
The case on Gkrieg is and was that he scummily hammered Chairs when Roadrunner was about to be hammered without even asking. He even took advantage of the fact that ADK hadn't unvoted Chairs yet and used ADK's vote on Chairs to hammer Chairs when ADK was OBVIOUSLY about to unvote Chairs and vote Roadrunner.
Here's my thing. The only scum narrative for Gkrieg doing this is protecting a partner. If Roadrunner were town and Gkrieg scum, then why put your neck out on the line and hammer town just to protect another town, when the other town is clearly about to be killed and there's a good chance to mislynch the first town the next day anyway?
So either Roadrunner is scum, or both Roadrunner and Gkrieg are probably town. Therefore, it makes more sense to lynch Roadrunner than it does to lynch Gkrieg today, becuase he was the one who almost got hammered for scummy play and then didn't because Gkrieg appeared to have saved him.
Is that L-1 on gkrieg?I believe it is.
Stop. It.
Kill this reptile guy!
Presumably "of"="on"
Yes, of = on.
The case on Gkrieg is and was that he scummily hammered Chairs when Roadrunner was about to be hammered without even asking. He even took advantage of the fact that ADK hadn't unvoted Chairs yet and used ADK's vote on Chairs to hammer Chairs when ADK was OBVIOUSLY about to unvote Chairs and vote Roadrunner.
Here's my thing. The only scum narrative for Gkrieg doing this is protecting a partner. If Roadrunner were town and Gkrieg scum, then why put your neck out on the line and hammer town just to protect another town, when the other town is clearly about to be killed and there's a good chance to mislynch the first town the next day anyway?
So either Roadrunner is scum, or both Roadrunner and Gkrieg are probably town. Therefore, it makes more sense to lynch Roadrunner than it does to lynch Gkrieg today, becuase he was the one who almost got hammered for scummy play and then didn't because Gkrieg appeared to have saved him.
I considered every option. I reread the entire game. I came to the conlcusion that you are the best lynch for today.But tunneling me isn't pro town. A case has been made, I am an option. But there's another scum out there, why don't we talk about that?
Who is scum does not change.
Back to vote: RR. Enough of this nonsense.I considered every option. I reread the entire game. I came to the conlcusion that you are the best lynch for today.But tunneling me isn't pro town. A case has been made, I am an option. But there's another scum out there, why don't we talk about that?
Who is scum does not change.
I knew someone would say something about that. I said that because I was talking to Iguanaiguana. Somehow, I'm confirmed scum to him. But there's still another scum out there, if I am scum.Back to vote: RR. Enough of this nonsense.I considered every option. I reread the entire game. I came to the conlcusion that you are the best lynch for today.But tunneling me isn't pro town. A case has been made, I am an option. But there's another scum out there, why don't we talk about that?
Who is scum does not change.
L-1
I knew someone would say something about that. I said that because I was talking to Iguanaiguana. Somehow, I'm confirmed scum to him. But there's still another scum out there, if I am scum.Back to vote: RR. Enough of this nonsense.I considered every option. I reread the entire game. I came to the conlcusion that you are the best lynch for today.But tunneling me isn't pro town. A case has been made, I am an option. But there's another scum out there, why don't we talk about that?
Who is scum does not change.
L-1
Obviously, no one cast any votes. Voting wrong here is handing the game to scum.
I'd like to hear reads from everyone before the day is over. I can do another re-read too. That'll happen probably on Monday.
Final Day1 Vote Count
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Not Voting: (0)
chairs has been lynched. He was a Town Vanilla Cop. Night1 begins now. Players with night actions, please PM me your actions. All other players please "check-in" by also PMing the mod before the end of Night1. Day2 will not start until all players have checked in or have been replaced, if necessary. Night2 will last about 48 hours.
Thread Locked!
Final Day2 Vote CountRR: (4) Awaclus, iguana, Haddock, gkrieg
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (1) 2.7
Not Voting: (1) WW
With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Roadrunner has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Night2 begins now!
All players still alive must "check-in" via a PM to the mod before the end of night. Night2 will last at least 24 hours. If anyone wants it to last longer, include that preference in your "check-in."
Thread Locked!
Vote Count 1.1Most of this is RVS. ADK and RR's votes on igu are real.
RR: (1) gkrieg
iguana: (3) Haddock, ADK, RR (L-2)
Haddock: (1) WW
Vote Count 1.2gkrieg's vote on RR is left-behind RVS. Awa's is real. WW voted for RR somewhere in betwee, and Awa is townreading me early. OK.
RR: (2) gkrieg, Awaclus
iguana: (1) ADK
Haddock: (2) 2.7, WW
Not Voting: (4) iguanaiguana, chairs, RR, Haddock
Vote Count 1.3The votes on me are all real. I think looking for scum on my wagon is sensible. Which jibes with my earlier instinct of scum being somewhere in WW, e and gkrieg.
RR: (1) Awaclus
Haddock: (4) 2.7, WW, ADK, gkrieg (L-1)
2.7: (1) Haddock
Vote Count 1.4Looks like WW started the chairs wagon. Worth noting.
RR: (2) Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock: (3) 2.7, ADK, gkrieg (L-2)
chairs: (1) WW
Vote Count 1.6If WW is scum, I think this makes it less likely that II is. Too obvious.
RR: (2) Haddock, chairs
Haddock: (3) 2.7, ADK, gkrieg (L-2)
chairs: (2) WW, iguana
iguana: (1) Awaclus
Vote Count 1.7So e moves over. Similarly this might be too obvious for scum!e if WW or ii are scum.
RR: (2) Haddock, chairs
Haddock: (2) ADK, gkrieg
chairs: (3) WW, iguana, 2.7 (L-2)
iguana: (1) Awaclus
Vote Count 1.8[/color][/b]Awa starts liking an ii lynch here. I could be convinced to look that way maybe. More coming up.
RR: (1) Haddock
Haddock: (2) gkrieg, chairs
chairs: (4) WW, iguana, 2.7, ADK (L-1)
iguana: (1) Awaclus
ADK: (1) RR
Vote Count 1.HaddockThis is interesting. Everyone on the RR wagon here is conf!town except ii...
RR: (3) Haddock, chairs, iguana (L-2)
Haddock: (1) gkrieg
chairs: (3) WW, 2.7, ADK (L-2)
iguana: (1) Awaclus
ADK: (1) RR
Not Voting: (0)
Final Day1 Vote CountWe all know the story of gkrieg's scummy hammer. but knowing RR is town it looks less bad?
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Vote Count 2.1I tunneled RR pretty hard. Derp. Awa has been doing so too. I know I look bad, and so Awa does too. But I'm town, so maybe Awa is too.
RR: (2) Awaclus, Haddock (L-2)
Haddock: (2) WW, iguana (L-2)
Vote Count 2.2II on RR.
RR: (3) Awaclus, Haddock, iguana (L-1)
Haddock: (2) WW, gkrieg (L-2)
gkrieg: (1) 2.7
iguana: (1) RR
Vote Count 2.3OK so WW and e have both been keen on my lynch this game.
RR: (2) Awaclus, iguana (L-2)
Haddock: (2) gkrieg, 2.7 (L-2)
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (1) Haddock
Vote Count 2.4OK so if WW is scum I'd say gkrieg almost certainly isn't, at this point. (This and other wagon positions)
RR: (2) Awaclus, iguana (L-2)
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (2) Haddock, 2.7 (L-2)
WW: (1) gkrieg
Final Day2 Vote CountConjecture: There is exactly one scum on RR's lynch.RR: (4) Awaclus, iguana, Haddock, gkrieg
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (1) 2.7
Awaclus is dead, bro.Wooooowwwwwwwwww. Extra derp.
Okay, I think it is time to do this.OK this is helpful.
I am the remaining town power role.
I would like to share my results, but before I do that, I want to propose a mass claim. This is the claim order I suggest:
WW
E
Haddock
Gkrieg
My results
I'm not done rereading yet, sorry. Will get a chance to do some tonight probably. I'm gonna try to do targetted rereads of everyone separately.
Alright, I'm bored and want to move this game forward.
My results implicate one person and completely clear another person. Between that and a third person who has made a number of pretty authentic townslips in the past couple days, I believe I have the game completely solved from my perspective.
The only way town loses here is if scum counterclaims and gets me lynched, or if I'm completely wrong about that third person.
I've been holding off on my claim because it makes it harder for scum to counterclaim, but I could also just give my results now and we could get on to winning this game.
What do you guys think?
RR was right, scum probably deserve to win this game.
Alright,
I'm the tracker. N1 I tracked Gkrieg, no action. First post D2 I breadcrumbed this by saying something like "what was with the scummy hammer Gkrieg?" and then immediately posting "Nevermind, I don't like the case of (SIC) Gkrieg."
N2 I tracked WW and found that he targeted Gkrieg at night.
This means that Witherweaver is the mafia rolecop or roleblocker, depending on whether we're playing setup 1 or 12. It also means that Gkrieg is town, unless some really crazy shenanigans went down at night.
I think that Haddock is town because of a few townslips, so that makes the scum team WW/e.
ETA on something from WW or e?
Although I also think that I'll wait to see what the other two have to say, just incase the scum team is II/Haddock
Cool. Tracker. With results. Not a huge fan of saying that a no action result should clear someone, but I need to reread now with that in mind. Won't have time before the flight to finish but maybe at my layover
Oh yeah. Reading. So yeah. Gkrieg is town.
Um? Case closed? e stumbling over his own words here should basically confirm him as scum with WW.
Um? Case closed? e stumbling over his own words here should basically confirm him as scum with WW.
How does this close any cases? Your case on me is weak poe at best. Me stumbling over my words means I don't read well enough sometimes. You know, like I do every other game
Um? Case closed? e stumbling over his own words here should basically confirm him as scum with WW.
How does this close any cases? Your case on me is weak poe at best. Me stumbling over my words means I don't read well enough sometimes. You know, like I do every other game
Actually my case on you is really really strong PoE. Your play was good though.
Um? Case closed? e stumbling over his own words here should basically confirm him as scum with WW.
How does this close any cases? Your case on me is weak poe at best. Me stumbling over my words means I don't read well enough sometimes. You know, like I do every other game
Actually my case on you is really really strong PoE. Your play was good though.
"Haddock town slipped" =/= really strong PoE
Yeah, but you and WW both tunneled Haddock the whole game, while townreading each other, and sitting back and watching while the rest of us made a mess of everything.
You also both had weird unwarranted townreads on Roadrunner for no reason.
As much as anything else, WW is scum because otherwise scum would have quickhammered by now.
I assume I die tonight. My vote is for e though.
He's scum, I'm the tracker.Cool. I guess the only way he could have been town is if you were fakeclaiming, so you have no reason to lie now.
He's scum, I'm the tracker.Cool. I guess the only way he could have been town is if you were fakeclaiming, so you have no reason to lie now.
So yeah, it's me versus e I guess.
PPE. Cool. That's the right decision. :)
Can you guys each make a case for each other being scum?
Also, gkrieg, go back and reread. Look at me. Look at haddock. Look at WW. You seem to have already made your mind, so I don't know what all I can do. But haddock is scum. He had played a good game. He has pulled out those reads and long posts that he knows I give town reads away for.
But really. WW does not make sense add my partner. Look at previous scum games. Hearthstone where I was scum with teproc. 9p game similar to this. I am town here. I was scum there
Sorry, not going to get to this tonight. I promise I won't hold the game hostage waiting for me though.
It's long, but it's also the post where I first start scumreading WW. Before then I think I referred to him once and gave him town points for one sensible post. But here you see me evolving into a scumread on him while he continues to tunnel me.
vote: WWRock solid reads, buddy. Nicely done. :)
I really think it is between him and e. One of those two just had to be scum
vote: WW
I really think it is between him and e. One of those two just had to be scum
I'm town, I think e is town.
Can you guys each make a case for each other being scum?Only just saw this.
Iguana made a lot of sense: Do you really think that I'm scum being consistently tunneled by my partner?
Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.
I'm not seeing anything to make me want to go away from Chairs.
Hm.. Haddock dropping in townread a little, more nullish. Iguana is feeling a little scummy. Gkrieg too. Wouldn't want to lynch ADK; he's being productive. I don't have a read on Awaclus, but you know, never a bad time to lynch an Awaclus. RR is as hard to read as usual. I don't have a read on e.
Lynch today should be Iguana or Gkrieg.
Vote Count 2.1I tunneled RR pretty hard. Derp. Awa has been doing so too. I know I look bad, and so Awa does too. But I'm town, so maybe Awa is too.
RR: (2) Awaclus, Haddock (L-2)
Haddock: (2) WW, iguana (L-2)
WW and igu on me. That's several wagons on town players WW has started. (Chairs and me).Vote Count 2.2II on RR.
RR: (3) Awaclus, Haddock, iguana (L-1)
Haddock: (2) WW, gkrieg (L-2)
gkrieg: (1) 2.7
iguana: (1) RR
If we suppose gkrieg is town then e looks bad.Vote Count 2.3OK so WW and e have both been keen on my lynch this game.
RR: (2) Awaclus, iguana (L-2)
Haddock: (2) gkrieg, 2.7 (L-2)
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (1) Haddock
conf!town!RR votes iguana.Vote Count 2.4OK so if WW is scum I'd say gkrieg almost certainly isn't, at this point. (This and other wagon positions)
RR: (2) Awaclus, iguana (L-2)
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (2) Haddock, 2.7 (L-2)
WW: (1) gkriegFinal Day2 Vote CountConjecture: There is exactly one scum on RR's lynch.RR: (4) Awaclus, iguana, Haddock, gkrieg
iguana: (1) RR
gkrieg: (1) 2.7
Further conjecture: It's probably not Awaclus, therefore gkrieg or II.
Final Day1 Vote Count
RR: (4) Haddock, iguanaiguana, chairs, Awacluschairs: (5) WW, 2.7, ADK, RR, gkrieg
Not Voting: (0)
overall a strong case, but a very weak defense.
townreading and not interacting with scum is very scummy.
I'm rereading tomorrow and voting at night so haddock you have until thenThat's fine. I will be making a case tomorrow morning. This evening turned into a whole thing, personal issues, hence not making a case tonight.
1) ... He has a wonderful time fighting with WW. I mean, he makes a point of finding WW scummy throughout D2, when WW has no chance at all of being lynched. I mean, he never even votes for WW. And now he has all the town points in the world for it.This is false. I hope that my most recent posts demonstrate my evolving scum read on WW. I was never quite confident enough to actually vote. My wagon positioning stuff was when I really started to gain confidence in the read. I think I would have voted WW not long afterwards even if iguana hadn't come out and confirmed it.
Except...WW didn't necessarily do that. Yes, he had Haddock as scum several times throughout the game, but always switched off.This is one time he unvoted me. If you reread the rest you'll see he did actually tunnel me pretty hard. I mean, come on. He starts the wagon on me as his FIRST D2 post.
After being on Haddock D1:Well, I don't agree.
How are you feeling about Haddock right now?
His big post felt townie.I'm not seeing anything to make me want to go away from Chairs.
There is a reason WW called his partner scummy all game but then made sure that the trigger was never pulled on him. Because he is scum.There is a reason WW gave e a townread all game. Because it's a small game with only two scum and that's surely the safe play in such a small game. No way does scum risk bussing each other when there's only two of them. So WW and e give each other townreads. Because e is scum.
and we have an L-2? good times.as his first real post indicates a scummy mindset.
Vote: haddock
Sure, that vote was rvs, but the method of unvote and the whole feel of the post leans scum
Vote: HaddockAlready they've got me in their sights. I've already explained how e and WW have played the clever game by pushing me, they know that I'll shy away from giving them scumreads for it.
Vote: chairs
I like haddock's defense. I am not entirely convinced he is town, but it is enough to look elsewhere for now.
It's nearly enough - ADK has intent to hammer RR before the chairs lynch goes through.Why chairs? So what, he's jokey. I'm jokey and I don't get lynched. I've contributed nothing but a case on ADK that no one cared about, but no one seems to want to lynch me.
This is an odd defense. And what? You made a case on adk? Totally missed that. Probably because it wasn't that much of a "case." (Went and found it)
He doesn't actually vote me for quite a while, but keeps pushing me, and votes me eventually.I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
I will go vote: gkrieg for now with haddock as my #2
Vote: haddock
I am leaning toward gkrieg/WW. I recognize the result cleats gkrieg of taking an action on N1, but with his hammer out is totally possible that scum (knowing most of the setup) elected to not use their action. Especially since the cop was lynched D1 and not great probability of hitting the last town pr.He knows he can't find me scummy any more because tracker!II finds me towny, so he declares me town with no good explanation given. He's been vocally finding me scummy for ages, and then suddenly yoyos. He's running out of options, so he pushes you even with results that clear you!
I can totally see haddock as scum, but every time I say that he convinces me again to postpone and vote elsewhere. Maybe just good scum play but going for just plain town
Um? Case closed? e stumbling over his own words here should basically confirm him as scum with WW.
WW and I were basically the same person this game. We both vote Haddock, we both vote chairs, neither of us like the RR lynch. I townread WW all game, didn't interact with him really at all - because I was pursuing other lynches.This is exactly what a 2-person scum team has to do in a small game like this. Stick together and do the same thing, work as a unit. You can't afford to be at each other's throats, there's too much at stake.
MVP worthy job there.
But focus on hearthstone. Those other two games were alittle weird. But in hearthstone, Teproc and I had "scum reads" on each other the whole game, yet always found another lynch. In fact, after reading through it myself, my game there looks very similar to haddock here. MVP worthy job there.Why would you choose to always do the same thing as scum? Oh that's right, you wouldn't. You'd want to change up from time to time, do something different. Precisely so that you can make this kind of argument.
Yes you would. In a small game like this it's totally legitimate for a scum team to stick together like that. Particularly a team with personalities as different as yours. It would (and did) take forever for people to notice that you're pushing for the same thing in different ways.MVP worthy job there.
For haddock this game if he pulls this off. I mean, I go back to this: what can you never lie about? Votes. Look at the votes. There is absolutely no way I follow my partner around like what happened with WW and myself.
I mean, Haddock even argues I am scum because we developed this strategy of "WW and I would not be so blatant." I mean, sure. But when has the "too scummy to be scum" argument ever worked? Almost never. I can start arguing that I was way too obvious and I would never play like that and follow WW/he follows me thing, but the truth is that I thought WW was town.I'm saying you were forced to rely on that. You had to stick together because the game was so small. And then you were forced to just hope that you looked too obvious to be scum.
He had some reads that I thought we good. Haddock's posturing at the end of D1 was scummy. He got called out for it.Complete rubbish. I've already mentioned how WW's calling me out for my chairs stuff at the end of D1 was not a good reason to vote me, and you look bad for sheeping him on it.
Haddock likes to gloss over his actual scummy play and focus solely on the RR thing. Great. That doesn't take away from other scummy things he did like posturing for a gkrieg mislynch at the end of D1.Funny how your entire case earlier revolved around my pushing RR and now all of a sudden I was scummy in some other way? How exactly?
And Haddock loves pointing out his 'townslip.' I mean, what about mine? I didn't get any credit for it (iguana called me scummy for it), but not connecting the dots on gkrieg is a town slip just as much as forgetting that awaclus was killed.Man, forgetting Awaclus was dead is much much more of a townslip.
I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
I mean, I posted this first. He had his vote down but Gabe no reasons. I totally didn't sheep WW on this.
But focus on hearthstone. Those other two games were alittle weird. But in hearthstone, Teproc and I had "scum reads" on each other the whole game, yet always found another lynch. In fact, after reading through it myself, my game there looks very similar to haddock here. MVP worthy job there.Why would you choose to always do the same thing as scum? Oh that's right, you wouldn't. You'd want to change up from time to time, do something different. Precisely so that you can make this kind of argument.Yes you would. In a small game like this it's totally legitimate for a scum team to stick together like that. Particularly a team with personalities as different as yours. It would (and did) take forever for people to notice that you're pushing for the same thing in different ways.MVP worthy job there.
For haddock this game if he pulls this off. I mean, I go back to this: what can you never lie about? Votes. Look at the votes. There is absolutely no way I follow my partner around like what happened with WW and myself.I mean, Haddock even argues I am scum because we developed this strategy of "WW and I would not be so blatant." I mean, sure. But when has the "too scummy to be scum" argument ever worked? Almost never. I can start arguing that I was way too obvious and I would never play like that and follow WW/he follows me thing, but the truth is that I thought WW was town.I'm saying you were forced to rely on that. You had to stick together because the game was so small. And then you were forced to just hope that you looked too obvious to be scum.
You're right, I have the order wrong.I agree RR is a good start for tomorrow if chairs is town. But let's see what happens.
But yeah. This is bad
I mean, I posted this first. He had his vote down but Gabe no reasons. I totally didn't sheep WW on this.
If I were scum I would totally build a case or something on him while gleefully mislynching all sorts of people. RR, chairs, Haddock, gkrieg.....all possible town mislynches over the course of D1 and D2.
I must've sensed it without realizing that I hadIf I were scum I would totally build a case or something on him while gleefully mislynching all sorts of people. RR, chairs, Haddock, gkrieg.....all possible town mislynches over the course of D1 and D2.
I even scum slipped at the end there
Ha, wow, yep I totally missed that.If I were scum I would totally build a case or something on him while gleefully mislynching all sorts of people. RR, chairs, Haddock, gkrieg.....all possible town mislynches over the course of D1 and D2.
I even scum slipped at the end there
Wow, yeah that really was a last minute thing for you wasn't it. Heck.
I'm still sad that I wasn't in it :(
I'm sad too.Cos we lynched you? Yep, whoops, sorry about that.
I'm sad too.Cos we lynched you? Yep, whoops, sorry about that.
We still won though. Hooray!
And I figured out what Iguana was doing; trying to see if we'd slip up counterclaiming him and incriminate both of us. However, I really was too busy around this time and only barely looking in. I considered counterclaiming Iguana, but I really couldn't sit down and think it all through. Before I had come to any kind of decision he had already claimed. And then I didn't see much of an advantage to saying anything.
Okay, I think it is time to do this.
I am the remaining town power role.
I would like to share my results, but before I do that, I want to propose a mass claim. This is the claim order I suggest:
WW
E
Haddock
Gkrieg
My results
Waiting for a counterclaim is fine.
And I figured out what Iguana was doing; trying to see if we'd slip up counterclaiming him and incriminate both of us. However, I really was too busy around this time and only barely looking in. I considered counterclaiming Iguana, but I really couldn't sit down and think it all through. Before I had come to any kind of decision he had already claimed. And then I didn't see much of an advantage to saying anything.
The counterclaiming certainly made sense and I didn't see any problem with that idea, but I was confused by the way he presented it.Okay, I think it is time to do this.
I am the remaining town power role.
I would like to share my results, but before I do that, I want to propose a mass claim. This is the claim order I suggest:
WW
E
Haddock
Gkrieg
My resultsWaiting for a counterclaim is fine.
The way it was presented was that he wanted to do a counterclaim opportunity, followed by a mass claim opportunity. But the thing is. Those were the exact same things. Once everyone had stated either "No Counter Claim" or "Counterclaim" then everyone would have essentially already claimed.
So the way it looked from my vantage as a mod was that it could have appeared that iguana was fake claiming and because of wanting both a counterclaim and a mass claim that he was anticipating a counterclaim/mass claim that he would have to shake off.
At least that is how I would have argued it. But maybe as a mod I was just reading too much into it as I had an overarching view. And in the end it had no impact and probably wouldn't have had an impact as his results and posting were good enough to win over the support of town.
yay now I'm done with mafia for a while againCough cough