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[Insomniac]

I too think mass claiming is bad. It's day 1 guys come on. Still v/la till late tonight

[cayvie]

unvote, vote: No Lynch

1) There are no vanilla townies.
2) Lynching day 1 doesn't kill the target, so we don't find out their alignment.
3) We have no real information to go on, and I don't want to mass claim.

[Tables]

Actually, now, without the ability to kill the target day 1 a no lynch does make sense. But... eh, I reckon we can do better. Maybe...? Whoever we give -VP to could be killed by the mafia, but at that point that person was under suspicion and so maybe that'd be a good thing?

I have to wonder just how easily various roles are going to give out VPs... like we have Timchen's claim he gets +1 per night, but how many roles will give other players +VP? I have a bad feeling VPs will end up quite chaotic.
I'll just be self sufficient and start massing Ironworks and end this game with a Silk Road rush (not a claim). There should still be 12 Silk Roads and 10 cards per pile, and game ending on... 4 piles, right ?

[Captain_Frisk]

Mod question:  Does the increasing penalty for lynching increase by day, or increase by lynch?

Ie - if we no lynch today, does a lynch on day 2 get -10 vp or -5?

I'm really surprised that nobody is pro claiming.  After any night actions, we may end up losing information.  That said - it looks like that's the way everyone feels - including scum I guess - so I won't press.

[eHalcyon]

Mod question:  Does the increasing penalty for lynching increase by day, or increase by lynch?

Ie - if we no lynch today, does a lynch on day 2 get -10 vp or -5?

I'm really surprised that nobody is pro claiming.  After any night actions, we may end up losing information.  That said - it looks like that's the way everyone feels - including scum I guess - so I won't press.

My only goal with the half-lynch on day 1 was so that everybody would have a chance at doing something, so day 2 will be -10 VP whether you lynch today or not.

[timchen]

Actually, why did that embargo token disappear? Or did it?

@massclaim: no, at least not for power roles. But if you have a role similar to mine,  I do think it is a good idea to claim.

[shark_bait]

It seems as if nothing can be gained by lynching axxle.  I honestly must agree that the deck gains nothing by lynching.  It's just a total crap shoot right now and the chances of lynching another deck member is greater than that of the curse aligned.

Vote: No Lynch

[jotheonah]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

[cayvie]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

Let me turn that around on you: what does the Deck gain from a Day 1 Lynch?

[jotheonah]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

Let me turn that around on you: what does the Deck gain from a Day 1 Lynch?

All the normal things. An informational wagon. A (nearly) dead person we hope is Curse-aligned. A sense of accomplishment.

[cayvie]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

Let me turn that around on you: what does the Deck gain from a Day 1 Lynch?

All the normal things. An informational wagon. A (nearly) dead person we hope is Curse-aligned. A sense of accomplishment.

Um, I think "the alignment of the lynchee" is a very very important "normal thing" we don't get from a lynch here.

[yuma]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

Let me turn that around on you: what does the Deck gain from a Day 1 Lynch?

The question jot posed still hasn't been answered.

[Tables]

With everyone having roles, night phases aren't as bad for us as they normally would be - yes, the cursers have roles too, but I think our roles probably equal or outweigh them. And with not getting information from an alignment flip (one of the key reasons lynching town is generally better than no lynch on day one), I think actually a No Lynch, if nobody looks scummy, is probably our best bet.

Vote: No Lynch

[timchen]

Vote: No Lynch

[cayvie]

Not sure I understand why a Day 1 No Lynch here is better than it would be in a standard game.

Let me turn that around on you: what does the Deck gain from a Day 1 Lynch?

The question jot posed still hasn't been answered.

Sure.

Day 1 Lynching is usually a trade-off for the town.

Just based on the numbers, a lynch with no concrete information is going to wind up far more often killing a townsperson than a scumfellow. Not only are there going to be far more town than scum, but also the scum are not likely to bus each other day 1.

What does the town gain, then, from Day 1 wagons? Information. What the alignment of the lynchee is, who was on what wagon, and what the targets of various wagons claimed at L-1 or whatever.

The problem, in this game, is that a Day 1 Lynch doesn't kill anyone, so not only are we unlikely to find the alignment of the lynchee, it makes people less likely to have to claim when they're being wagoned.

All a lynch does in this game is likely hurt the town in exchange for some wagon information. Also, in this game, the scum get stronger the fewer of them there are around, so even that information is less reliable: they're presumably more likely than normal to bus each other.

[Robz888]

Makes sense. Vote: No Lynch

Mainly I have always wanted to actually have a no lynch round 

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1-2

shark_bait (1): Axxle
Voltgloss (1): Captain_Frisk

No lynch (5): cayvie, shark_bait, Tables, timchen, Robz888

Not voting (9): Dsell, Eevee, Galzria, Grujah, Insomniac, jotheonah, Lekkit, Voltgloss, yuma

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Friday, July 27, 11:59pm MDT
(But this is liable to change.  I won't end it early without some warning.)




Point Counter Extension 1.2

0 - Axxle
0 - Captain_Frisk
0 - cayvie
0 - Dsell
0 - Eevee
0 - Galzria
0 - Grujah
0 - Insomniac
0 - jotheonah
-1 - Lekkit
-1 - Robz888
-1 - shark_bait
0 - Tables
0 - timchen
0 - Voltgloss
0 - yuma


Hmm, probably don't need to repost the PCE when nothing has changed.

[Dsell]

Woah woah woah. Woah. I'm definitely willing to explore the idea of a no-lynch today, especially because this is role madness and not traditional mafia, but if anything it definitely seems premature to decide to no-lynch already when we have very little information.

It's fine if we decide to not lynch today, it actually might be a good idea. But let's not get a few more votes on there and end the day this soon when there is legitimate information to be gained. I am against a no-lynch for the same reason I'm against a massclaim: because we can't rely on our night actions to save us. Explaining our roles won't necessarily give the deck a clear direction and could actively hurt us, and similarly we can't be sure that our night actions will net us the kind of concrete information needed to make an informed lynch. And if they don't, we will likely be in a worse position tomorrow.

Cayvie points out that all day one lynches have been on town so far, but at least three of those games have been won by the town anyway. It's true that we will not get the alignment information right away, but are we only going to lynch people who have few enough points to be lynchable (obviously this is designed to be easier in later days)? Anyway by not lynching it seems like we put more power into the hands of the curse faction, who presumably have the most ability to do damage at night time.

Ok this is sounding pretty negative, I'm not actually all that opposed to the idea, I just strongly feel that we shouldn't vote to end the day yet.

[Insomniac]

So uh I go V/LA for ONE WEEKEND and you guys decide no lynch is a good idea...like yea everybody has a role and those roles well they're unique if they're anything like mine but no lynching gets us no talk back and forth with scum so we have no idea where to point fingers at scum on the bad wagon. Just seems like a bad idea especially this early in the day we have another WEEK AND A HALF

[cayvie]

I don't see you mean that no lynching gets no talk back and forth.

Some people are clearly arguing for and some against it.

There's also going to be a list of people who voted for it, and those who didn't.

[Insomniac]

I don't see you mean that no lynching gets no talk back and forth.

Some people are clearly arguing for and some against it.

There's also going to be a list of people who voted for it, and those who didn't.

This is true that people are arguing for and against but not very adamantly the thread is pretty dead considering I didn't have much to read for being V/LA for a weekend. And the information is different, when you scumhunt you get information and scumtells from curse aligned players, while you probably also get some from deck aligned players and well you have to hope that you can use that information effectively along with knowing the role of the deceased player and the places people voted for that person.

[Grujah]

I am against no-lynch.

[Eevee]

My town aligned role gets SIGNIFICANTLY worse if we nolynch. I dont know what others have but this has to be one of the stronger roles too.

Definitely against nolynch.

[Grujah]

My town aligned role gets SIGNIFICANTLY worse if we nolynch. I dont know what others have but this has to be one of the stronger roles too.

Definitely against nolynch.

This is something scum would say 

[Eevee]

My town aligned role gets SIGNIFICANTLY worse if we nolynch. I dont know what others have but this has to be one of the stronger roles too.

Definitely against nolynch.

This is something scum would say 

Cayvie makes an excellent case. However, I think the fact that deck probably has "day time roles" and scum doesnt, makes lynching look more enticing again? I might be wrong here but eHalc has probably noticed how d.Ds tends to only lynch town on day 1, maybe he did something with the roles to change that.

Something to consider, as I already said, my role gets significantly weaker if I dont get to use it today.