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[Eevee]

Either your claim is meaningless wifom, or it does help you dodge the nightkill. No scum has any incentive to hunt for VT's. Do you think one guy claiming VT is better than no claiming?

[liopoil]

Unvote

VG has a point - he does make the same mistake in reverse in that QT. that means a lot for me really, and think that it's more of a null tell.

I'll feel really silly if he is indeed scum, and yeah, this unvote will look really bad, but oh well, I don't want to lynch him, so I'm unvoting.

[ashersky]

Either your claim is meaningless wifom, or it does help you dodge the nightkill. No scum has any incentive to hunt for VT's. Do you think one guy claiming VT is better than no claiming?

I think 3 PRs claiming, or 9 VTs claiming, is best.  One VT claiming is meaningless.

[Eevee]

Either your claim is meaningless wifom, or it does help you dodge the nightkill. No scum has any incentive to hunt for VT's. Do you think one guy claiming VT is better than no claiming?

I think 3 PRs claiming, or 9 VTs claiming, is best.  One VT claiming is meaningless.

You are dodging my question. Why do you refuse to admit that the way it played out, your claim was very anti-town? The only party who could benefit from it was scum ashersky, and for some reason you are trying to play around that fact.

[Eevee]

It's especially weird of you to be pro-ash instead of pro-town given your long history of sacrificing yourself to the benefit of your team.

[mail-mi]

Wow. Just, wow. Shraeye caught something good. What is VG at? I don't wanna derphammer him.

[ashersky]

Wow. Just, wow. Shraeye caught something good. What is VG at? I don't wanna derphammer him.

He has 2 or 3 votes.

[ashersky]

Either your claim is meaningless wifom, or it does help you dodge the nightkill. No scum has any incentive to hunt for VT's. Do you think one guy claiming VT is better than no claiming?

I think 3 PRs claiming, or 9 VTs claiming, is best.  One VT claiming is meaningless.

You are dodging my question. Why do you refuse to admit that the way it played out, your claim was very anti-town? The only party who could benefit from it was scum ashersky, and for some reason you are trying to play around that fact.

Your question is "do you think one guy claiming VT is better than no claiming?"

If you need a yes or no, then no, it is not "better" than "no claiming."  But YOU are being dodgy by equating that with "your claim was very anti-town."  It was by no definition of the words "very anti-town."

It's also disingenuous of you to say this:

It's especially weird of you to be pro-ash instead of pro-town given your long history of sacrificing yourself to the benefit of your team.

When I explicited gave the intent to self-hammer, which is pro-town, not pro-ash.

Scum read on Eevee has increased.  He's looking for the easy mislynch, possibly deflecting from VG.  He also refuses to actually recognize that my real answer, that the 3 PRs (or 9 VTs) need to claim, is what needs to be discussed.

And his tunnel on my claim, when UoS made one as well, is scummy.  1 PR claim out of 3 is more "anti-town" than 1 VT claim out of 9.

[Eevee]

Faking to be a pr gets you shot by the other team, not concerned. Faking to be a VT is what scum wants to do. Not sure why this concept seems hard to understand for you.

I don't have an opinion on massclaim or not, but the position you are taking isn't "I was hoping for a massclaim and jumped the gun a bit, sucks it went this way, I'm sorry". To me your position seems "I claimed VT, it's whatever and I wouldn't benefit from it if I was scum so why are you harassing me?"

Is your intent to hammer yourself pro-town because you are scum?

You seem to have a scum read on me on every single day 1 these days and it's been a good while since I was mafia without teaming up with you.

I'm deflecting away from Voltgloss? Dude, I'm voting for him and quite explicitly said that I think he is the best lynch for today. I'm not dodging your real answer, I'm saying your claim was premature and regardless of your thoughts on a full massclaim, you should realize only you claiming is very antitown and you shouldn't have done it. You are trying to avoid admitting that, and I think it might be because you intentionally fakeclaimed as scum to avoid getting shot, to mess with us because you can and to fake your town meta.

Sorry there are no quotes despite addressing specific things in your post, I'm in mobile. I hope everyone can follow what parts of your post I was referring to at all times.

[Eevee]

Unvote

VG has a point - he does make the same mistake in reverse in that QT. that means a lot for me really, and think that it's more of a null tell.

I'll feel really silly if he is indeed scum, and yeah, this unvote will look really bad, but oh well, I don't want to lynch him, so I'm unvoting.

This seems in line with liopoil's usual persona. I think it's unlikelier he would dare to try to fight a lost cause if he was Voltgloss's partner though, so if Voltgloss flips mafia, I think lio is not a likely partner but I realize that's not much.

[yuma]

How are those slips...?

He's using the wrong tags.  He's using QT-speak, and I suspect it's because he was switching between his scumQT and this thread.

Hah!  Clever.  Wrong, but clever.

Any messed-up tags are because I was alternating between posting here and posting in this.  Link is safe and non-spoilery.

So I guess I am the only person who doesn't find voltgloss scummy for this? When I read shraeye's post explaining the italics thing my mind immediately jumped to this QT that volt is talking about. It is a very simple and easy mistake to make, switching up the tags. People do the opposite all the time in the QTs... I know for a fact that chairs (yes, he isn't in this game, but as an example) just barely did so in the speccy for CLUE... especially in the context of voltgloss using that thread a lot--not necessarily as of late, as some have mentioned, but recently enough that it is probably the place where he most recently used tags.

Could this be voltgloss as mafia. Maybe. But this, like so many other slips before it I think this is going to result in probably a townie lynch and very little to go off come day2.

[yuma]

I am not the only one, I see that lio agrees with me.

[Eevee]

yuma, why do you think slip-based lynches give less wagon information than lynches based some other type of a case? You seem to be upset with how most of our day 1's go, I personally see this as a good one. Lynching Voltgloss here has got to have at least an ok chance of hitting scum, obviously it sucks if we lose such a heavy weight townie but sadly no one is going to be able to trust him much even if we don't lynch him so that's less of a concern. I feel this is a nice non cluttered stuff still happened length for a day 1 and we usually can't commit to a lynch until just before the deadline unless something like this happens.

[liopoil]

I don't have a problem with lynching someone over a slip, but I don't think it's much of a slip. don't know for yuma though.

[yuma]

yuma, why do you think slip-based lynches give less wagon information than lynches based some other type of a case? You seem to be upset with how most of our day 1's go, I personally see this as a good one. Lynching Voltgloss here has got to have at least an ok chance of hitting scum, obviously it sucks if we lose such a heavy weight townie but sadly no one is going to be able to trust him much even if we don't lynch him so that's less of a concern. I feel this is a nice non cluttered stuff still happened length for a day 1 and we usually can't commit to a lynch until just before the deadline unless something like this happens.

My problem with it is that if voltgloss is town we are then left with a bunch of "I voted for him because I thought it was a slip" type of explanations. And from town that is an extremely valid explanation. However, it is also an extremely valid cover for mafia. It makes differentating the town from the mafia. There is much less accountability because everyone is saying "it was totally obvious."

That is the drawback with "slips." I mean, if he flips mafia... then, yes, awesome. But if not... I will basically be left with my day1 reads because for me nothing will change... whereas on another lynch once I get the flip, my reads change dramatically depending on how things played out.

Does this have a good chance of hitting mafia. I don't know. I don't think it is any better than anything else out there, maybe worse because people aren't really thinking about it (maybe they are, but mostly people are going OMGOMGOMG!!!! WOWWOWOWOWOWOW!!!! votevotevote) and if everyone is doing that, then we have a harder time separating mafia from town if voltgloss flips town.

This "slip" isn't as concrete as some people seem to be thinking it is. My mind immediately had an explanation for it. And it was the same one voltgloss used, so I don't see it as a slip, I see it as a mistake. Maybe it was made by mafia, but I doubt it.

[shraeye]

Wow, Robz, those explanations sound super fishy to me.

My biggest problem with ash's claim is that it's very advantageous to any scum to avoid getting shot by the other scum. I think pushing this lynch would make significantly more sense than pushing PPS did in that game, but I guess your mileage may vary. However, saying you didn't need to push ash because he was getting lynched anyways seems like you want to avoid attention (scummy) pushing the case on a townie (after you honestly called out something scummy you saw him do). You shouldn't have argued with ash, it's not him you needed to convince, it was town. How does focusing on UoS getting back make any sense? Why not focus on ash getting back? How exactly does you focusing on someone returning help, and does it really take all your focus - enough to make you stop pushing for someone you think is scum

Can you explain more about what you mean?  I keep getting lost in the big paragraph, and I can't quite figure out everything you're getting at.

[Eevee]

It was a response to this:

Well, let me leave you all with this.  I don't expect anyone to believe this now, but if you lynch me, perhaps you'll come back to this after my flip.

Vote: Robz

Robz planted the idea of "early VT claim = scummy" regarding ash.  But he has not pushed that line of thought heavily - not nearly like he did in the game where pingpongsam did the same thing and got crucified for it.  Instead, he let me push it instead.  This is likely scum!Robz, who likes nothing more than to see me make his cases for him. 

I believe ash.  But be careful gang about his focus on yuma.  I'm not convinced yuma is scum - I think ash v. yuma is town v. town, being egged on by scum on the sidelines.  Unfortunately, ash will probably try to force a him-or-me with yuma.  ash, if you're town:  Just please be careful about doing that. 

I think shraeye is town and doing his damnedest.  I'm sorry I blundered into your sights.  That's on me, not on you.

I think this may be the first time I get mislynched?  Deliciously ironic that it's all my own fault.

It's been fun gang! 

I think this is a weak case against me. First of all, I was wrong about PPS, so why would I push a similar case as hard this time? Now, I think there are better reasons to think it's true this time. I have pushed the case, I mean, yuma and I were both making it and saying "also, what he said." Then ash disappeared and it was pointless arguing with someone who wasn't here. I'm not pushing it so hard because, meh, Day 1 participation is not something I do a lot of anymore? And also ash seemed likely to get lynch without me like really hammering it home? And also now I'm less sure, and pretty just focused on UoS getting back here.

Of course, what I think you may be doing is setting it up so that when you flip scum, people will look at who you voted for, wonder if you were distancing from a partner, and put me in trouble.

I'm just really terrible at quoting from mobile. Robz's explanations for why Voltgloss's case on him is weak seemed really not good to me, so I tried to point out the problems I had with them.

[shraeye]

Unvote

VG has a point - he does make the same mistake in reverse in that QT. that means a lot for me really, and think that it's more of a null tell.

I'll feel really silly if he is indeed scum, and yeah, this unvote will look really bad, but oh well, I don't want to lynch him, so I'm unvoting.

So this obvious lie of a defense doesn't register to you?

How are those slips...?

He's using the wrong tags.  He's using QT-speak, and I suspect it's because he was switching between his scumQT and this thread.

Hah!  Clever.  Wrong, but clever.

Any messed-up tags are because I was alternating between posting here and posting in this.  Link is safe and non-spoilery.

Nope,, your first slip in this thread is more than 15 hours after your latest post in that QT.  Your second slip here is more than 2 days after any of your posting in that QT.  You were not alternating.

[Robz888]

I actually think that Volt has behaved incredibly like caught mafia since shraeye called him out, bolstering the case.

[ashersky]

I actually think that Volt has behaved incredibly like caught mafia since shraeye called him out, bolstering the case.

Agreed.

[yuma]

Unvote

VG has a point - he does make the same mistake in reverse in that QT. that means a lot for me really, and think that it's more of a null tell.

I'll feel really silly if he is indeed scum, and yeah, this unvote will look really bad, but oh well, I don't want to lynch him, so I'm unvoting.

So this obvious lie of a defense doesn't register to you?

How are those slips...?

He's using the wrong tags.  He's using QT-speak, and I suspect it's because he was switching between his scumQT and this thread.

Hah!  Clever.  Wrong, but clever.

Any messed-up tags are because I was alternating between posting here and posting in this.  Link is safe and non-spoilery.

Nope,, your first slip in this thread is more than 15 hours after your latest post in that QT.  Your second slip here is more than 2 days after any of your posting in that QT.  You were not alternating.

Now this is much more interesting. Because it isn't a slip, it is a contradiction. But is it really a contradiction? I mean I can kinda see what he is trying to say. That he has been alternating posting "here" as in the f.ds forum in general and the QT he is working on.

But I guess what now worries me is that he hasn't come out and said that himself...

[Jorbles]

How are those slips...?

He's using the wrong tags.  He's using QT-speak, and I suspect it's because he was switching between his scumQT and this thread.

This...this might be the first scumslip I could support.

Whoa, that's pretty incriminating, has Voltgloss ever done that in another game? I haven't seen him do that.

[Jorbles]

I'd vote for Volt based on that, but I'll do it after an official vote count.

I agree with ashersky and Robz that VG has been acting like a scum player who was caught.

[yuma]

I'd vote for Volt based on that, but I'll do it after an official vote count.

I agree with ashersky and Robz that VG has been acting like a scum player who was caught.

anyone want to say why they think this? I mean, yes, he has acted looser and less like voltgloss, but I expect any player that thinks he is doomed to death would suddenly become a lot looser and more likely to through around jokes and such...

I have been looking back at the games where volt was mafia and was lynched--and while none is a case of a "slip"--I don't think any fit that trend.

Ozlemafia I - he fought until the end, once he was lynched he admitted to being scum pretty quick (it was lylo I believe at that point). After he was lynched he wasn't too happy about it (it being the game, the setup and the ending)
MIII - He again put up a fight, and became really indignant about his impending lynch.
RMMI - Here he was outed by a cop and again he fought it pretty hard and tried to incriminate the cop and ended up being really indignant about it

Now these are games from a looooong time ago. But all of them are instances where volt as mafia was lynched and each one he was incredibly upset and frustrated and indignant (the ways I would actually expect someone who was caught mafia to act)

and he is right that he has never been mislynched, so there is nothing to compare that to.

[yuma]

yuma count 1.1

nkirbit (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (1): Jorbles
Robz888 (1): Voltgloss
ashersky (3): yuma, nkirbit, mail-mi 
Jorbles (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Voltgloss (4): shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, eevee

Not Voting (1): liopoil

{vote counts aren't that hard to do guys. If the mod isn't around, just go back and figure it out}