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Author Topic: Revised versions of published cards  (Read 104998 times)

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BryGuy

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #300 on: March 31, 2023, 07:17:06 pm »
+1

So i was reviewing Thunder Dominion Card Rankings and contemplating improvements, if i don't find anything in old posts here. Below are a few ideas i had. Let me know what you think, especially those with multiple version. I pursued three paths for improvement: 1. remodel; 2. make into a split pile by developing a companion card; 3. Reduce its cost. I mostly want to maintain the original intent or at least not invade space another better card already occupies.

Capital
          Version-A                              Version-B

What is sad about this card is that its net effect is only plus one buy, while the coin surge is nice, it is not nice enough to rank well. Version-A provides an additional net $2 - the bare minimum a $5-card should do. Version-B provides an additional net $1 in exchange for a lower purchase price. Maybe i should do both and put into a split pile?

Treasure Map
          Version-A                              Version-B

The idea behind Version-A is to enable some use instead of being a dead card most times. The idea behind Version-B is that you may get an odd quantity to get them to collide and this provides some use from a single.

Miser
          Version-A                              Version-B

Version-A attempts to improve the card by allowing both options, but modifies the payout. Version-B dials it back by only allowing the first Miser played to get both options and uses a simpler payout.

Royal Blacksmith

I was thinking about also giving it an extra buy as benefit for trashing.

Cartographer
          Previous Version                              Current Version
          
I modified this to provide some coin.

Beggar

Rare Gem started with three basic options to rid one of the Coppers gains from Beggar, but i removed one and added the first sentence to accommodate Curses, Ruins, Shelters, or any other junk one may encounter from Dark Ages or other sets. Should Rare Gem be $4?

Sage
I reduced the cost by $1, down to $2.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 04:59:50 pm by BryGuy »
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segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #301 on: April 01, 2023, 03:14:38 am »
+2

An unconditional DoublePeddler is mispriced at 5.
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D782802859

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #302 on: April 01, 2023, 08:20:21 am »
+2

Treasure Map version A significantly weakens the concept of the base card, since there are boards where you'll just buy it as a $4 Herbalist. I do like Version B though.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #303 on: April 01, 2023, 09:50:31 am »
+4

I was also thinking about Silver Mine. This card is pretty much a strictly inferior Sculptor and is easily the worst card of the set. Sure, they can't all be the best card, and it is still better than the card that holds that description. But I can't help but wonder: was there absolutely nothing the devteam could do to make the card more interesting?

I have three ideas:

Idea 1
Quote
Silver Mine (Treasure, $5)
Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand. When you gain a Province this turn, trash this to gain a Gold Mine.

Quote
Gold Mine (Treasure, $8)
Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand.
(this is not in the supply)

This makes Silver Mine upgradeable into Gold Mine. The downside is that you'd need an extra pile of 10 cards, which is probably a dealbreaker for this set.

Idea 2
Quote
Silver Mine (Treasure, $5*)
Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand.
-
During your turns, this costs $1 more per card you gained this turn.


Basically, an inverse Destrier cost wise. After gaining 2 cards, this can gain Golds. Yay. But the card itself also becomes harder to get.

Idea 3
Quote
Silver Mine (Treasure - Duration, $5)
Choose one: Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand, or put this into your hand at the start of next turn.

Either gain a Treasure this turn, or keep the card for next turn. This gives it a bit more flexibility.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 10:03:57 am by grrgrrgrr »
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D782802859

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #304 on: April 01, 2023, 10:45:16 am »
0

I do wish there was a way to make Silver Mine better without killing the sleekness of the card.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #305 on: April 01, 2023, 10:53:50 am »
+1


Idea 2
Quote
Silver Mine (Treasure, $5*)
Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand.
-
During your turns, this costs $1 more per card you gained this turn.


This is great, probably the best cost increaser I've seen on this forum. There'd need to be rules about how it interacts with cost reducers.

Other idea:

Silver Mine
Treasure - $4
Gain a Treasure costing less than this to your hand
____
When you gain this, each other player gains a Silver
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 10:55:56 am by NoMoreFun »
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #306 on: April 30, 2023, 07:50:14 am »
0

I was also thinking about Capital, and I actually think that the card should have been a cantrip action. I also modified it so you can no longer escape the Debt, as that'd be really broken with Overlord.

Quote
Capital (Action, $5)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$6
At the start of Clean-up, take 6D, and then you may pay off D.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2023, 12:50:33 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #307 on: April 30, 2023, 05:35:30 pm »
+2

Is the Buy removal intentional? I hope not because this is a pretty serious nerf; that Buy is far stronger than an extra card.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #308 on: May 04, 2023, 08:34:53 am »
0

Is the Buy removal intentional? I hope not because this is a pretty serious nerf; that Buy is far stronger than an extra card.

This was intentional, indeed. But it might not be a good idea. Although elevating a stop card to being a non-stop card is generally quite a change in power.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #309 on: May 09, 2023, 01:35:16 am »
+2

How I think Donald might do Moat if he made it these days:

Quote
Moat
$2 - Action - Reaction
+2 Cards.
Until the end of your turn, you are unaffected by attacks.
-
When another player plays an attack, you may play this from your hand.

segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #310 on: May 09, 2023, 01:42:28 am »
0

This only makes a difference with Black Cat.
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Holger

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #311 on: May 09, 2023, 03:29:56 am »
+2

This only makes a difference with Black Cat.

No, the change makes Moat nonterminal (i.e. a Lab) whenever an opponent plays an attack. It's a lot stronger than the original card, often better than Guard Dog... 
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segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #312 on: May 09, 2023, 12:19:04 pm »
0

I missed that part which does indeed make the card too strong.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #313 on: May 09, 2023, 11:45:37 pm »
0

This only makes a difference with Black Cat.

No, the change makes Moat nonterminal (i.e. a Lab) whenever an opponent plays an attack. It's a lot stronger than the original card, often better than Guard Dog...

I didn't realize how much stronger this made it until you pointed that out. I guess it has to cost at least $3 unless I nerf it somehow. hmmm... maybe this:
Quote
Moat
$2 - Action - Reaction
If it's not your turn, +1 Card. Otherwise, +2 Cards.
Until the end of your turn, you are unaffected by attacks.
-
When another player plays an attack, you may play this from your hand.

Ethan

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #314 on: May 10, 2023, 03:28:13 am »
0

It has track problem: as the official rule, 'If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.'
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Angle

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #315 on: July 27, 2023, 09:50:44 pm »
+1

Treasure Map
          Version-A                              Version-B

The idea behind Version-A is to enable some use instead of being a dead card most times. The idea behind Version-B is that you may get an odd quantity to get them to collide and this provides some use from a single.

Ironically, I think I might argue that playing version B using the second way is actually really good - gives you the same amount of gold per treasure map, reacts with a card that's good value otherwise... Definitely something to be said for it.

Still not sure what to do with Spy or Pearl Diver (suggestions welcome).

For Pearl diver, I think just allowing discarding of the card from the bottom of the deck would be pretty helpful. Maybe move the draw to after you mess with your deck, if you think it needs further buffing.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 10:45:02 pm by Angle »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #316 on: July 27, 2023, 10:04:39 pm »
0

It has track problem: as the official rule, 'If you play a card on someone else's turn, you discard it in that turn's Clean-up, unless it is a Duration card with things left to do.'
Just have to add the duration type then. easy fix.

lompeluiten

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #317 on: July 31, 2023, 07:01:16 am »
0

make an colony 9 points, instead of 10?

Now you can more easy race with cheaper alternatives.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #318 on: September 23, 2023, 11:32:53 am »
+1

I was thinking about a new, bit more self sufficient version of Crypt.

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segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #319 on: September 23, 2023, 04:08:51 pm »
0

Converting non-terminal into terminal draw is a huge change.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #320 on: September 26, 2023, 07:18:08 pm »
0

<modded Crypt>
I like the idea, but I'd suggest making it a cantrip instead of +2 Cards. That makes its effect more similar to the original version, but still a significant buff.

BryGuy

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #321 on: January 16, 2024, 12:38:01 pm »
0

:)
So i was reviewing Glinko Dominion Card Rankings and contemplating improvements to the bottom 16%, if i don't find anything in old posts here. Below are a few ideas i had. Let me know what you think, especially those with multiple version. I pursued three paths for improvement: 1. remodel; 2. make into a split pile by developing a companion card; 3. Reduce its cost. I mostly want to maintain the original intent or at least not invade space another better card already occupies.

Cartographer Ranked 411/451
I modified this into a Peddler variant.

:)

Crystal Ball Ranked 366/451
So this one really surprised me. To me it seams like the Treasure version of Sentry. So i modified to make the first one provide additional value and allowed you to put a card into your Hand, helpful for Night cards.

:)

Duplicate Ranked 362/451
I modified this to allow more duplication.

:)

Feodum Ranked 441/451
I modified both versions to a Treasure-Victory.
Version-A: I modified this gain Silvers.
Version-B: I modified this provide basic economy with the potential to gain Silvers. Maybe this should also cost $4?

Version A                                        Version B
:)

Island Ranked 369/451
Since two cards are removed from your hand, i modified this by providing an additional card.

:)

Monument Ranked 407/451
Like Woodcutter, as an Action this is too week. I modified this to a Treasure, provided a choice, and added an exchange. This exchange idea is not too dissimilar to Capital City.

:)

Pendant Ranked 383/451
Version-A: I modified this to trash a Treasure for the benefit of a Coffer.
Version-B: I modified this to provide an alternative path to Loots.

Version A                                        Version B
:)

Sage Ranked 400/451
I modified this to allow conditional trashing.

:)

Scavenger Ranked 426/451
This an Harbinger both allow a card to be moved from the discard onto your deck. For both I modified this to two cards.
Version-A: I modified this include a Buy.
Version-B: I modified this to a choice, making the other option trashing and provide some benefit to certain trashing.

Version A                                        Version B
:)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 10:02:41 am by BryGuy »
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segura

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #322 on: January 16, 2024, 01:18:22 pm »
+3

None of these cards except for Cartographer is weak. Cartographer with an added Peddler is likely too strong, Crystal Ball needs no buff, Duplicate needs no buff, the second Feodum variant is totally crazy, Monument being stronger than Plunder is totally crazy (not to mention the issue that a non-terminal that can be played as nothing but +2VP does not work; cards that provide VPs should lead to game progress and not to loops).

Except for obvious power level misevaluations (dude, Monument ainít weak!), making cards more wordy and complex is seldom a good idea.
Take Pendant, a powerful Treasure with a simple and clear wording. Why mess this up via adding Treasure trashing or Loot exchange to it?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 01:23:52 pm by segura »
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BryGuy

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #323 on: January 17, 2024, 10:19:59 am »
0

Anyone have some good ideas for these?

Rank   Name   Expansion   Cost Category
351   Library   Base   5-cost
353   Ducat   Renaissance   0-2-cost
354   Herb Gatherer   Allies   3-cost
355   Nomads   Hinterlands   4-cost
356   Merchant   Base   3-cost
357   Candlestick Maker   Guilds   0-2-cost
358   Innkeeper   Allies   4-cost
359   Moat   Base   0-2-cost
361   Guide   Adventures   3-cost
362   Duplicate   Adventures   4-cost
364   Caravan Guard   Adventures   3-cost
365   Workshop   Base   3-cost
366   Crystal Ball   Prosperity   5-cost
368   Tunnel   Hinterlands   3-cost
369   Island   Seaside   4-cost
370   Pawn   Intrigue   0-2-cost
371   Trading Post   Intrigue   5-cost
372   Fortune Hunter   Plunder   4-cost
373   Dismantle   Promo   4-cost
374   Scepter   Renaissance   5-cost
375   Armory   Dark Ages   4-cost
376   Kiln   Menagerie   5-cost
377   Hoard   Prosperity   6-cost or more
378   Galleria   Allies   5-cost
379   Druid   Nocturne   0-2-cost
380   Capital   Empires   5-cost
381   Acolyte   Allies   4-cost
382   Baron   Intrigue   4-cost
383   Pendant   Plunder   5-cost
386   Fairgrounds   Cornucopia   6-cost or more
387   Tactician   Seaside   5-cost
388   Graverobber   Dark Ages   5-cost
389   Oasis   Hinterlands   3-cost
390   Cellar   Base   0-2-cost
391   Prince   Promo   6-cost or more
392   Leprechaun   Nocturne   3-cost
393   Faithful Hound   Nocturne   0-2-cost
394   Rocks   Empires   4-cost
395   Contract   Allies   5-cost
396   Magnate   Prosperity   5-cost
399   Merchant Camp   Allies   3-cost
400   Sage   Dark Ages   3-cost
401   Tracker   Nocturne   0-2-cost
402   Farmland   Hinterlands   6-cost or more
403   Crypt   Nocturne   5-cost
404   Gladiator   Empires   3-cost
407   Monument   Prosperity   4-cost
410   Royal Blacksmith   Empires   6-cost or more
411   Cartographer   Hinterlands   5-cost
413   Mystic   Dark Ages   5-cost
414   Scholar   Renaissance   5-cost
415   Gardens   Base   4-cost
416   Treasury   Seaside   5-cost
417   Bard   Nocturne   4-cost
418   Secret Passage   Intrigue   4-cost
419   Poor House   Dark Ages   0-2-cost
422   Silver Mine   Plunder   5-cost
423   Tide Pools   Seaside   4-cost
424   Fool   Nocturne   3-cost
425   Miser   Adventures   4-cost
426   Scavenger   Dark Ages   4-cost
428   Death Cart   Dark Ages   4-cost
429   Treasure Map   Seaside   4-cost
430   Duke   Intrigue   5-cost
431   Night Watchman   Nocturne   3-cost
432   Harbinger   Base   3-cost
433   Vault   Prosperity   5-cost
434   Mine   Base   5-cost
435   Vagrant   Dark Ages   0-2-cost
438   Masterpiece   Guilds   3-cost
439   Farm   Intrigue   6-cost or more
440   Beggar   Dark Ages   0-2-cost
441   Feodum   Dark Ages   4-cost
444   Trader   Hinterlands   4-cost
445   Merchant Ship   Seaside   5-cost
446   Stash   Promo   5-cost
449   Harvest   Cornucopia   5-cost
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 10:22:12 am by BryGuy »
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Revised versions of published cards
« Reply #324 on: January 24, 2024, 04:25:26 pm »
+1

I got another idea for Silver Mine

Idea 4
Quote
Silver Mine (Treasure, $5)
Gain a card costing less than this to your hand.

With this, it can also serve as an expansive nonterminal Workshop if there are no interesting Treasures to gain. And of course, it gets quite nuts with stuff like Villa.
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