Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ashersky]

Yuma, is tunneling like this something town!ash would do?  As far as meta is concerned, I'm lost. I'm just going by what I perceive to be scummy.

Go find the game where TA and I just demolished each other for like 20 pages and both ended up being town.

[ashersky]

I would like you to yes, and I will as well. I want to know if your motivation is "get Andrew lynched" or "find and lynch scum." They might result in the same thing, but the motivation is very different. Right now it looks like you are more interested in the first.

To be honest, there's a bit of the former in me.  It is just so frustrated to not be listened to.  I caught Andrew so early on D1, and here he is, still.  So yes, I want to lynch Andrew.  I want so very badly to be vindicated for this.

I do want to catch scum.  I already have, from D1.  The motivation to re-read 70+ pages of everyone else (especially you, with all your posts) isn't quite there when I know we have one scum already caught.

I'm just as interested in your re-reads as you are mine.  I'd like you to re-read Andrew for sure.

[ashersky]

One point that comes to me as to why Andrew is town is this:

If is scum and he has a blocking role then I should be dead. Archetype already stated that if he is blocked his protection of me doesn't work, thus freeing up mafia to kill me.

Not 100% solid, but I do think it is something.

That's a fair point, if he can still roleblock without being redirected.

If the team is just Andrew/WW, we're looking at a fairly newbie scum team, too.  I think it's important to take that into account.  Some of the NKs aren't very sensible, at least from my POV.  Like, I wouldn't expect them from Robz or Axxle or you.

[yuma]

Yuma, is tunneling like this something town!ash would do?  As far as meta is concerned, I'm lost. I'm just going by what I perceive to be scummy.

Go find the game where TA and I just demolished each other for like 20 pages and both ended up being town.

I modded that game, so I know it well. And it is true, they tunneled each other into a town defeat (scum played decent, but town lost the game). I tend to see tunneling as something that town does, anti-town generally, than scum does, but ash is very aware of his meta.

I wasn't in the game, but I seem to remember ash tunneling pretty hard in Super Mario as mafia, so I don't think it is an alignment tell for him

[ashersky]

Jimmmm, Day 2:

#55: "I still think ash is town."
#56: Ask witherweaver why he expected Andrew to be NKed when a large part of the town was on board to lynch him.
#57: Asks XP to explain his vote on ashersky.
#58: Asks for theories as to why scum!yuma claims dayvig.
#59: Asks XP what "you're still spreading suspicion" means in a game where we suspect everyone.
#60: Responds to yuma saying if Andrew is scum, so is ADK by asking "what is Andrew is town?"
#61: Says he's been trying to work his way into the game, but has little in the way of reads.  Still has yuma and ash as town reads.
#62: Surprised when a post count shows 4 people with less posts than him.
#63: Asks Arch why he's re-reading with a bias.
#64: Responds to yuma's catty post about the mislynch.
#65: Votes for xeiron without a reason listed.
#66: Responding to xeiron, disagrees with xeiron's insistence that yuma shoot.
#67: Asks yuma why he was upset that Jimmmmm hadn't hammered.
#68: Responds to WW's case on Jimmmmm, explaining that he settled for a sudgy lynch over no lynch when Andrew wasn't getting lynched.  Also disagrees that rolefishing is actually a thing.
#69: More to WW, saying it was false he got to choose which lynch, since it was sudgy or nothing.
#70: Responds to TA pointing out flavor doesn't help.
#71: Agrees that yuma is probably town, but doesn't think trying to create ICs is a good game plan.
#72: Again asking if flavor matters.
#73: Clarification post.
#74: Still arguing with TA over flavor's importance.
#75: More flavor arguing.
#76: Quote fail.
#77: Says he probably won't lynch yuma today or tomorrow, but hesistant to use the IC label.
#78: Says he didn't realize TA had claimed a result.  Half following from work.
#79: Asks ashersky what he meant by "off".
#80: Asks XP why his reactions are scummy.
#81: Up for a yuma-led massclaim.
#82: Asks XP for reasons why he'd be up to lynch Jimmmmm or ashersky, as he sees none.
#83: Thinks people are willing to lynch him because town is lazy and willing to punish bad town play.
#84: Responds to ashersky saying that post #83 was scummy by clarifying.
#85: Asks ashersky what reaction he expected.
#86: WW brings up the old fight from earlier in the day, Jimmmmm holds his ground.
#87: Town reads on yuma, ash, and xeiron towny.  No scum reads.
#88: Asks WW to name someone he influenced for the sudgy lynch.
#89: Explaining town read on ash as from ages ago and to do with approach, xeiron for similar thinking.
#90: Points out to WW that if he's trying to argue that ashersky following Jimmmm to the Andrew lynch, he's missing something.
#91: More fighting with WW no who controlled the lynch at the end of D1.
#92: Votes for WW after Andrew does for interoggating people.
#93: Votes no lynch after yuma's dayvig.

That's all of D2.  More interaction here, gets a few scumreads on him from others.  He interacts with WW, and I think he comes off as unlikely to be WW's partner here.  It could be staged, I guess, but what strikes me as odd was how it flamed up near the beginning of the day, then came back in the same form late in the day.  I think scum fake fights once, but not twice the same way on the same day.

[Archetype]

Here's something interesting:
After seeing Jimmmmm's claim, I asked mail-mi whether or not I'd be considered as targeting the player I seraph-knight every night, or just the original night and he said it would just be the original night. Which makes sense.

So either:
Jimmmmm is scum and really is a Tracker
Jimmmmm is scum and guessed that's how my Seraph Knight would work
Jimmmmm is Town

I'm leaning Jimmmmm being Town. What do you think, Yuma?

PPE: 1

[ashersky]

Jimmmmm, Day 3:

#94: Asks xeiron why he voted for him.
#95: Asks for redirector clarification.
#96: Asks Arch how redirector is powerful and how he would use it.
#97: Checks in.  Says he'll catch up.
#98: At work, says he can claim.
#99: Asks Arch that so long as he's alive and not RB, yuma is Bulletproof.
#100: Claim post.  Says he is a Tracker.  N1 Shraeye with no result, N2 WW targeting Andrew.
#101: Thinks he'd see the other name if WW redirected Andrew.
#102: Thinks Andrew's survival is fishy.
#103: Thinks redirector would work like bus driver, clarified that his result was definitely only andrew.
#104: More discussion on how redirector resolves in relation to tracker.
#105: Responds to the idea of leaving TA alive, thinks we should lynch TA.
#106: Asks why XP thinks endgame is imminent.
#107: Joke response to TA.
#108: Another joke response to TA.
#109: L-1 vote on TA.
#110: Asks xeiron about his scum reads.
#111: Asks why XP wants to lynch xeiron tomorrow.
#112: Complains that he's telling scum "if you leave him alive, we'll lynch him."
#113: Understanding.

Not a lot of D3, but it was a quicker day once we caught TA.  The claim isn't crazy, his targets are sensible.

[Archetype]

Also there is a very distinct possibility that Andrew and ashersky are mafia together and this is just mafia fighting with a partner to get credit. WW said this was something that was likely at one point day1--I think the only player to say it was likely. Jimmmm and Archetype I would love to hear your thoughts on this possibility...

I think this is the most likely thing to be going on. I think Andrew/ash trying to bus each other for Towncred. I could totally see Scum!ash saying I his QT pregame "we gotta fight D1" to his partners. I'm pretty sure he's done it before, and wouldn't be surprised if this is another instance of it.

[ashersky]

And Jimmmm so far today:

#114: Tracked arch last night, no result.
#115: Asks yuma why he's confident arch is town.  Is pretty sure Andrew is scum.
#116: Points out he agreed with ash in the beginning.
#117: Hopes yuma isn't being serious with the blackmail.
#118: Agrees with ash that the blackmail was lame.
#119: Feels we need to lynch Andrew today.
#120: Asks yuma if he's sure there's 2 scum left.
#121: Game balance discussion.
#122: Asking how much he can clarify his result.
#123: Thinks he found proof that one of him and Andrew must be scum based on night action claims.  Fake votes andrew
#124: Responds to Andrew asking why he is jumping to that conclusion.
#125: Fake unvotes andrew when SK is taken into consideration.

Not much to comment on.  I agree with him on most of this stuff.

[Archetype]

Andrew: Why did you target Jimmmmm? Why not me?

Ashersky: Why did you target me? Why not Andrew?

[yuma]

Andrew: Why did you target Jimmmmm? Why not me?

Ashersky: Why did you target me? Why not Andrew?

or any other player for that matter

[ashersky]

Also there is a very distinct possibility that Andrew and ashersky are mafia together and this is just mafia fighting with a partner to get credit. WW said this was something that was likely at one point day1--I think the only player to say it was likely. Jimmmm and Archetype I would love to hear your thoughts on this possibility...

I think this is the most likely thing to be going on. I think Andrew/ash trying to bus each other for Towncred. I could totally see Scum!ash saying I his QT pregame "we gotta fight D1" to his partners. I'm pretty sure he's done it before, and wouldn't be surprised if this is another instance of it.

I feel like you've been tunnelling me a bit.  We were scum together in the past right?  Sea Hags?

Do you think honestly this "fight" is staged?  Plus, you just modded my last scum win.  I think you are reading me wrong.

[Archetype]

One way to balance a game with lots of investigative roles is to have fewer targets to catch. 

Strongly disagree. More investigative roles means a stronger scum team. The more investigative roles there are, the more likely they are to eliminate an entire faction. That's why some SKs are Ninja!

Unless scum have lots of Redirecting/Godfathering/Ninjaing, in which case investigative roles have a lot of potential for confusion.

Eh, alright. But, what? Ninja Strongman Godfather and Redirector? Still pretty weak even compared to just the dead roles.

[Archetype]

Also there is a very distinct possibility that Andrew and ashersky are mafia together and this is just mafia fighting with a partner to get credit. WW said this was something that was likely at one point day1--I think the only player to say it was likely. Jimmmm and Archetype I would love to hear your thoughts on this possibility...

I think this is the most likely thing to be going on. I think Andrew/ash trying to bus each other for Towncred. I could totally see Scum!ash saying I his QT pregame "we gotta fight D1" to his partners. I'm pretty sure he's done it before, and wouldn't be surprised if this is another instance of it.

I feel like you've been tunnelling me a bit.  We were scum together in the past right?  Sea Hags?

Do you think honestly this "fight" is staged?  Plus, you just modded my last scum win.  I think you are reading me wrong.

I was definitely NOT scum in sea hags. Why does everyone think that...

I believe this fight could be staged. Most of your accusations against Andrew have been relatively flimsy. The original "scumslip" was weak and he reasoning you are using now seems fake.

[ashersky]

Ashersky: Why did you target me? Why not Andrew?

or any other player for that matter

Arch's role claim was by far the most dubious to me, as far as likelihood.  I mean, seraph knight?  And there was the other aspect, which needed clarified.  By knowing Arch is telling the truth, plus other stuff, it took two people off the table for today.  I don't get alignment, but I can see truth and reasoning.

I can verify if people are lying or telling the truth.  Arch has a role that doesn't require him to say anything else about targeting, etc. so it's the least verifiable by other means.  If Jimmmmm was lying, he would have to make up a result today that could have been wrong, but didn't (unless arch is his partner).  Andrew's role too should be verifiable by claims after three nights, but hasn't been, unless he stopped a kill on N2.

[ashersky]

Also there is a very distinct possibility that Andrew and ashersky are mafia together and this is just mafia fighting with a partner to get credit. WW said this was something that was likely at one point day1--I think the only player to say it was likely. Jimmmm and Archetype I would love to hear your thoughts on this possibility...

I think this is the most likely thing to be going on. I think Andrew/ash trying to bus each other for Towncred. I could totally see Scum!ash saying I his QT pregame "we gotta fight D1" to his partners. I'm pretty sure he's done it before, and wouldn't be surprised if this is another instance of it.

So...

Arch thinks: andrew/ashersky
Jim thinks: andrew/X?
ash thinks: andrew/X?
yuma won't commit.

I absolutely expect Andrew's partner to bus today, btw.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Andrew: Why did you target Jimmmmm? Why not me?

It was late, I had to rush and do something before mail-mi opened the thread back up (I think I technically missed the deadline so maybe my night action didn't go through at all), and from what I remember I had some WIFOM theory about why scum would keep you alive if yuma is town which doesn't really make any sense to me anymore.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Jimm still hasn't flavor claimed I don't think.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 4.2

Not Voting (5): Archetype, AndrewisFTTW, Jimmmmm, yuma, ashersky

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 4 ends on May 8 at 11 o'clock PM FT

[AndrewisFTTW]

Better answer:

I wanted to save someone from a NK. Jimm claimed tracker, XP claimed mailman, and Arch claimed Seraph Knight. If all three are town, I would think Tracker is the biggest threat. So I doctored the claimed tracker. When the least threatening of the three was killed (XP), that raised my suspicions on Jimm and Arch significantly.

[yuma]

Better answer:

I wanted to save someone from a NK. Jimm claimed tracker, XP claimed mailman, and Arch claimed Seraph Knight. If all three are town, I would think Tracker is the biggest threat. So I doctored the claimed tracker. When the least threatening of the three was killed (XP), that raised my suspicions on Jimm and Arch significantly.

Did you think of this just now... or did you think of it during the night that you submitted the action? If you thought of it then why didn't you mention this train of thought two posts up?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Because I couldn't remember the exact logic behind why I did it but basically it was a POE decision. Here's what I posted when first asked this question. Notice ash used the "why doctor Jimm?" argument again AFTER I already answered it.

Why doctor Jimmmmm?  And then put him in the lynch category?

Because I figured Arch and yuma are probably town (or at least Arch is and then there's nothing to do about yuma anyway), Xeiron is probably dying (he did), and I had a slight scum read on XP and a big scum read on you. If I correctly guessed who scum was targeting for the NK and saved them from dying that would've been huge but that didn't happen.

[mail-mi]

Vote Count 4.3

Not Voting (5): Archetype, AndrewisFTTW, Jimmmmm, yuma, ashersky

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 4 ends on May 8 at 11 o'clock PM FT

[ashersky]

Yuma, how are your rereads coming?

[yuma]

Yuma, how are your rereads coming?

They are pretty much done, I have been working the last three days, but am off now, so it has taken some time to see what I needed to see. I think I know where I stand...

Right now I think we can proceed with votes. I will continue to not vote and I would ask that Arch not vote either. So that means I Jimmmm, ashersky and Andrew can all vote--and probably should--but with Arch and I not voting for now won't be able to get a lynch through unless someone selfvotes. I am confident enough that Arch is town that I don't think we risk a quickhammer.

There are a few things I want to make sure about, but I think we are ok to proceed forward.

Arch and I will vote a bit later after those things are taken care of. Sorry to be cryptic, but I think this is the way I need to proceed.