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[Jimmmmm]

vote: jimmm
His reactions to xeiron are scummy and I'll have LA for 24 hrs.

Scummy how?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I agree with yuma's plan.

I'm reading jimmmm as towny right now or at least null, I don't see how his reaction to TA's result was scummy or troublesome.

[AndrewisFTTW]

OK! I'm all caught up, sorry for my absence yesterday. At this point I'm fine with a Jimm lynch and the dayvig plan.

So yuma is town, is there a reason scum!TA would want to reveal that besides town cred? Probably not. My reads are probably way off this game...

[Archetype]

Sorry for being so absent. I've been pretty busy, but I have enough time to reread today. Comments coming soon.

[Archetype]

Jimmmmm:

D1:
I had a bunch of quotes pulled up...but then my computer refreshed and I lost all the stuff I pulled up. I was leaning "Hesistant Town" before the refresh. Now where was I...

Okay. So yet again I have put myself in a situation where I have very few solid reads and it'll be a real struggle to really get myself into the game prior to more things happening that I actually pay attention to when they happen. I've repeatedly shown that having stretches of disengagement from the game is not an alignment-tell for me, and while that's not a reputation that I'm comfortable with, it keeps coming back to me - I need to be more consistent with putting effort into games that I've signed up for.

So, here's where I'm at right now. I'm still up for lynching Andrew. I still don't want to lynch yuma or ash. That's about it at this point, other than to say sudgy seems like a potentially easy mislynch. I think I'm still voting for him from way back, so I should Unvote.

I'll try to re-read a couple of people before I go to bed.

This reads as scum!Jimmmmm trying to clear his name of the sudgy lynch. The reads seem honest enough though.

yuma should just vig TA to prove his claim, and then we no-lynch.

And by TA I mean Andrew.

Wants to get rid of Andrew. Reads to me like Jimmmmm wants to get rid of yuma's DayKill and eliminate a Towny. He says it will "validate yuma's claim"...but in my opinion that is unnecessary. yuma is in my mind pretty likely to be Town.

I guess it's time for me to claim? I'm a split jailkeeper.

A what?

Yeah what's a split jailkeeper?

Really scummy. On both Jimmmmm and ashersky's account.

Yeah that seems like a fairly believeable claim.

Have you thought about which option you're going to choose Tonight Andrew?

Why would he ask this?

Yeah that seems like a fairly believeable claim.

Have you thought about which option you're going to choose Tonight Andrew?

?? Why are you asking this....

I'm assuming Andrew is smart enough not to give anything away that he shouldn't, but I'd like to see evidence that he's actually thought about this role and it's not just something that was given him as a fakeclaim.

That explanation is so weak.

Sorry sudgy, too late. I think a lynch is better than no-lynch.

Vote: sudgy

Pretty towny reasoning, but scummy combined with the previous sudgy back-off. Equals out to null.

D2:

I still think ash is Town.

I still don't understand how he could think that. I don't think he has explained yet?

I am also getting increasingly uneasy about yuma. I do not like the effort he put in last day to stop a lynch.

Any theories as to why scum yuma would claim Dayvig?

This is pretty scummy after he wanted yuma to prove his claim. If he thought yuma was town, why does he need to prove his shot?

You're still spreading suspicion.

What does that even mean? In a game centred around there being players who actively want to "kill" everyone else, you're suggesting that we not be suspicious of people?

Jimmmmm has a Towny perspective here.

I've been somewhat busy, but I'll be rereading Jimmmmm (to investigate scumminess) and Andrew (prove Townieness) soon.

You're re-reading with preconceived bias?

Eh. Null for this. His confusion would be expected as Town or Scum.

I'll wait...

I think we should lynch sudgy Today. He's probably scum. Oh wait, we did that already! Now we can make progress towards lynching actual scum instead of giving them a free kill and then doing what we would have done anyway.

Towny for Jimmmmm here. Stands by his "a lynch is better than a no lynch" which I think scum is likely to put the blame on someone.

First, Jimm is super active right before the lynch, and puts (or is just put in) a position where he essentially decides who the lynch candidate is.  This is somewhat convenient, as if one of the lynch candidates were scum, he could decide the other one.

This is false. My preferred lynch between the two was Andrew, but I couldn't get that lynch through so I settled for the sudgy lynch ahead of no-lynch. I mean, you could say scum me would have let the no-lynch happen instead if the person in question was also scum, but I don't think that's particularly compelling.

I could see Jimm trying to dig a little deeper into roles to try to get some clues on who to target with night actions and who needs to be killed.

Is rolefishing actually a thing? It's something that people are accused of fairly regularly, but have we ever actually seen scum try to make a Townie accidentally say more about their role than they should? If someone who you are considering lynching claims, you can either accept it blindly, reject it blindly, or question them about it. Which of these do you think is best?

To answer is question: In Andrew's case, I accepted it blindly. Slight Town on him for his explanation.

First, Jimm is super active right before the lynch, and puts (or is just put in) a position where he essentially decides who the lynch candidate is.  This is somewhat convenient, as if one of the lynch candidates were scum, he could decide the other one.

This is false. My preferred lynch between the two was Andrew, but I couldn't get that lynch through so I settled for the sudgy lynch ahead of no-lynch. I mean, you could say scum me would have let the no-lynch happen instead if the person in question was also scum, but I don't think that's particularly compelling.

Which part is false? You're saying that Andrew lynch could not have happened?  When I was reading it looked like there was a point where both were viable.  I thought someone even said that it's going to come down to whichever one Jimmm chooses.

It's false that I got to choose which lynch went through. Regardless of what you think someone said, I chose the Andrew lynch and the sudgy lynch went though.

Here I think that Jimmmmm is getting scummily defensive. He's the one who hammered sudgy and could've let it go to no lynch.


Then there is all that "What does the green text mean?" which is sort of weird. Not scummy-weird, just weird. So Null on all that stuff.

TA is town and telling the truth.

vote: jimmmmm to have a vacation vote and because I think his reaction to TA's reveal is off.

What do you mean by off?

Not sure what ashersky means here. Slight Town on Jimmmmm for missing TA's claim.

[Archetype]

Synopsis: Early D1 Jimmmmm is Towny, but near the end of D1 is when he gets scummy. He gets more Towny during D2 though. He reads as 'hesistant Town', but that can easily be read as 'hesitant scum'. I'm not hardcore pushing his lynch, I still prefer ash, but I would gladly hop on the wagon if we needed a lynch before deadline. I'd still like to hear him explain why ash is town.

[Archetype]

Playerlist:
4. xeiron
6. Twistedarcher
7. Witherweaver
10. A Drowned Kernel
12. Jimmmmm
13. ashersky

Took myself, yuma, Andrew, and Xerxes off.
Me: Because I'm me.
yuma: No way this dude is scum. I mean, mayyyybe, but TA's claim pretty much confirms him as Town.
Andrew: Really think he's Town. Proof for ya'll coming soon.
Xerxes: Townslips times infinity. Either sloppy scum or obvious Town.

That leaves...
4. xeiron
6. Twistedarcher
7. Witherweaver
10. A Drowned Kernel
12. Jimmmmm
13. ashersky

...for people I'd be willing to lynch. In order from most wanting to lynch to least:

ashersky > xeiron > A Drowned Kernel > Jimmmmm > Witherweaver >>> Twistedarcher


I think that TA is town, but a Scum thief isn't unheared of. So he's not off the table, but you'd have to twist my archer arm to get him lynched.

[Archetype]

I'm dumb. Those two lists are exactly the same. I already took off who I wanted to lynch off in both cases.

Andrew reread eventually coming.

[Witherweaver]

First, Jimm is super active right before the lynch, and puts (or is just put in) a position where he essentially decides who the lynch candidate is.  This is somewhat convenient, as if one of the lynch candidates were scum, he could decide the other one.

This is false. My preferred lynch between the two was Andrew, but I couldn't get that lynch through so I settled for the sudgy lynch ahead of no-lynch. I mean, you could say scum me would have let the no-lynch happen instead if the person in question was also scum, but I don't think that's particularly compelling.

Which part is false? You're saying that Andrew lynch could not have happened?  When I was reading it looked like there was a point where both were viable.  I thought someone even said that it's going to come down to whichever one Jimmm chooses.

It's false that I got to choose which lynch went through. Regardless of what you think someone said, I chose the Andrew lynch and the sudgy lynch went though.

I'm not convinced of this.  When you came back, Andrew had 4 votes with you and Ash not voting, and TA was on Sudgy but willing to lynch anyone to avoid a no lynch.  So that would lynch Andrew.  What changed it was Andrew claiming, not the Sudgy lynch being more viable.  Prior to the claiming, you were in a position to determine the lynch.  Or at least push the lynchee to the point of needing to claim.

Can't pull up quotes right now, but I think I have the events correctly.  Will try to concretize.

Wanted to find the relevant links for why I was thinking this.  In reply 801 Ash lists the current vote count, 5 against Sudgy, 4 against Andrew, Jimmm and Ash not voting.  Earlier in reply 781 TA basically says he'll go for whichever of Sudgy/Andrew Jimmm decides.  Ash will obviously go Andrew.  So at this point, if Jimm wants Andrew, he's the target, and that's exactly what happens in 807.  Then TA says he'd go Andrew, Yuma threatens to kill anyone who votes Andrew, and Andrew comes back and claims his role.  Then people start unvoting, then Sudgy happens.

Okay so I just wanted to make sure I had the facts straight.  My original point was that when you came back (around post 800), you were at a point to choose between Andrewis and Sudgy, and Ash and TA had basically said they'd go for either.  This is what I originally said (that Jimmm said was false):

First, Jimm is super active right before the lynch, and puts (or is just put in) a position where he essentially decides who the lynch candidate is.

And that's what happened.  Jimm chose Andrewis for the lynch candidate.  That didn't go through because of Andrewis' claim (and possibly Yuma's influence).  My original point was just that this is a convenient place to be in if you're scum, as scum has knowledge here.  Town just has to make a decision and most likely end up in the wrong.  That's basically just something like circumstantial evidence at best, though. 

I'm not sure why Jimm said what I said was false, though, unless I'm missing something.

[Witherweaver]

...for people I'd be willing to lynch. In order from most wanting to lynch to least:

ashersky > xeiron > A Drowned Kernel > Jimmmmm > Witherweaver >>> Twistedarcher


I think that TA is town, but a Scum thief isn't unheared of. So he's not off the table, but you'd have to twist my archer arm to get him lynched.

Did you have a reread of Xeiron and ADK that puts them in this position? 

[Witherweaver]

TA is town and telling the truth.

This sounds extremely certain, and since you're one of those guys that picks apart people's phrasing, I'm assuming you chose this carefully.

[yuma]

unvote

[yuma]

We have had a lot of claims, half claims and allusions to claims. To the point that I am starting to wonder if we should just mass orchestrate a mass claim to get everything out there and potentially catch someone in a lie (or a counter claim and more effectively use the DayVig, which I think is the optimal method)

Xeiron, yuma, ashersky, Andrew and TA appear to have all claimed something. That is half of the town atm.

[Witherweaver]

We have had a lot of claims, half claims and allusions to claims. To the point that I am starting to wonder if we should just mass orchestrate a mass claim to get everything out there and potentially catch someone in a lie (or a counter claim and more effectively use the DayVig, which I think is the optimal method)

Xeiron, yuma, ashersky, Andrew and TA appear to have all claimed something. That is half of the town atm.

I don't have a problem with it if everyone thinks it's a good idea.  I've thought about it a few times, and my concern was that if everyone has roles and flavors that make sense, then we might just be giving scum all the information they need to know who to target at night, and we won't have revealed anything useful for us.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm up for a yuma-led massclaim.

[Twistedarcher]

Cool with a massclaun

[Twistedarcher]

But I completely missed xeiron's claim, what was it?

[Twistedarcher]

And ash's too. I really don't think ash has claimed.

Maybe you mean xerxes and not xeiron? He claimed flavor but not role?

[yuma]

And ash's too. I really don't think ash has claimed.

Maybe you mean xerxes and not xeiron? He claimed flavor but not role?

Yes I meant xerxes. He claimed Mailman?

[Twistedarcher]

Oh I missed it, I'll go back and find it.

[Archetype]

I'm fine with a massclaim.

...for people I'd be willing to lynch. In order from most wanting to lynch to least:

ashersky > xeiron > A Drowned Kernel > Jimmmmm > Witherweaver >>> Twistedarcher


I think that TA is town, but a Scum thief isn't unheared of. So he's not off the table, but you'd have to twist my archer arm to get him lynched.

Did you have a reread of Xeiron and ADK that puts them in this position? 

No. Xeiron has been scummy for pretty much reasons brought up by everyone else. ADK for being scummier than Andrew with the 3 scum thing. Both are pretty heavy lurkers.

[ashersky]

Checking in from poolside.  I think mass claim is what scum wants.  Won't fight majority, but think we should be careful.  Mass claim helps scum solvf set up faster than town.   See like every rmm with too much claiming ever.

[Witherweaver]

I'm fine with a massclaim.

...for people I'd be willing to lynch. In order from most wanting to lynch to least:

ashersky > xeiron > A Drowned Kernel > Jimmmmm > Witherweaver >>> Twistedarcher


I think that TA is town, but a Scum thief isn't unheared of. So he's not off the table, but you'd have to twist my archer arm to get him lynched.

Did you have a reread of Xeiron and ADK that puts them in this position? 

No. Xeiron has been scummy for pretty much reasons brought up by everyone else. ADK for being scummier than Andrew with the 3 scum thing. Both are pretty heavy lurkers.

You've been a heavy lurker, too.

[Archetype]

I'm fine with a massclaim.

...for people I'd be willing to lynch. In order from most wanting to lynch to least:

ashersky > xeiron > A Drowned Kernel > Jimmmmm > Witherweaver >>> Twistedarcher


I think that TA is town, but a Scum thief isn't unheared of. So he's not off the table, but you'd have to twist my archer arm to get him lynched.

Did you have a reread of Xeiron and ADK that puts them in this position? 

No. Xeiron has been scummy for pretty much reasons brought up by everyone else. ADK for being scummier than Andrew with the 3 scum thing. Both are pretty heavy lurkers.

You've been a heavy lurker, too.

Yep. 

[xeiron]

And ash's too. I really don't think ash has claimed.

Maybe you mean xerxes and not xeiron? He claimed flavor but not role?

Yes I meant xerxes. He claimed Mailman?

Xerxes claimed both flavor and role.
Flavor, Egwene (claimed D1)
role, mailman (claimed D2)

As for massclaim, I am undecided.
My intuition tells me that this is a game where scum in general benefits more from massclaims than town do. Partly because right now we have a IC with a somewhat weak role (Yuma). Scum would have to choose between killing the IC or killing among the nonclaimed if they want to hit a stronger role or a SK. After a massclaim that decition gets much easier for scum as they know how strong the strongest roles are.

On the flip side, we are starting to aquire a small collection of semi-IC's. A massclaim could get us one or two more, and then it is pretty straightforward to lynch the rest. In addition, any flavor cops or similar among us gets more powerful if we claim.