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[2.71828.....]

unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...

Why?

They seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.

But they know that.  They are vets.  They know the system.  At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-town

[Voltaire]

This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.

But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.

[Jimmmmm]

<b>Vote: Morgrim</b>

I really want to do this now. Just not convinced it's actually a good idea if we're trying to win.

[Robz888]

This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.

But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.

This is much crazier if you ask me.

[Morgrim7]

unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...

Why?

They seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.

But they know that.  They are vets.  They know the system.  At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-town

mmm...good point

[Teproc]

This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.

But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.

This is much crazier if you ask me.

Having read most of the games we're talking about here, I definitely agree with this. That's why I was suspicious of him earlier, it seemed like he artificially amped up the craziness.

[Robz888]

This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.

But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.

This is much crazier if you ask me.

Having read most of the games we're talking about here, I definitely agree with this. That's why I was suspicious of him earlier, it seemed like he artificially amped up the craziness.

Good, I'm glad to hear that it's not just my imagination. Thanks.

[Teproc]

unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...

Why?

They seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.

But they know that.  They are vets.  They know the system.  At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-town

Sweet, I'm already a vet ! But I agree, Morgrim having town reads on the people who are voting for him AND Voltaire for an exact opposite reaction to his claim is ludicrous. Well that's not exactly what you're saying I guess, but I do think that.

[Voltaire]

Sweet, I'm already a vet ! But I agree, Morgrim having town reads on the people who are voting for him AND Voltaire for an exact opposite reaction to his claim is ludicrous. Well that's not exactly what you're saying I guess, but I do think that.

Ludicrous yes, but how is it scummy?

[ashersky]

He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)

That's correct.  This is L-1.

vote: Morgrim7

Halt. Cease. Desist.

The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?

I mean I do buy ash's narrative as plausible but 1. it's coming from ash 2. it almost never makes sense to lynch a claimed PR.

This. Morgrim could be scum, sure. But he could very well be Town, and if so he actually has a way he can definitely help us. Do we really want to lynch a claimed PR on Day 1?

When it claims like that yes, why not just massclaim D1 everygame(which may have happend here) it absolutely screws us, I am hoping to god morgrim is scum and not just not taking the game seriously at all.

Mcmc makes a good point here.  We don't know how many PRs we have, so Morgrim may have outed them all.  Scum knows this, even while we don't.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.13

ashersky (3): Voltaire, Walrus, Jorbles
Jorbles (1): manda
manda (2): Jimmmmm, 2.7
Morgrim (4): Robz, mcmc, teproc, ashersky (L-3)

Not Voting (2): faust, Morgrim

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day1 will end in ~2 days on December 4 at 10 pm forum time

[Teproc]

Sweet, I'm already a vet ! But I agree, Morgrim having town reads on the people who are voting for him AND Voltaire for an exact opposite reaction to his claim is ludicrous. Well that's not exactly what you're saying I guess, but I do think that.

Ludicrous yes, but how is it scummy?

It's not.

[Jimmmmm]

Morgrim, are you trying to win this game?

[2.71828.....]

Well, I have to head out now.  I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything.  Let's at least wait until manda has said something.  Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:

Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.

I hope it is B.  I want it to be B.  I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts.  I actually think this is A.  Morgrim fakeclaiming as town.  It makes no sense.  It is bizarre.  It doesn't help at all.  I mean, it could be C but I just don't know.  I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.

[Teproc]

If you think it's A, why did you vote for him ?

I don't think it's A. Even Morgrim isn't that crazy. Which is why I think B is the most likely, although it could be C. I'm not fine with lynching him if it's C (even if he's the least helpful Tracker ever, he would still be town), but there's obviously no way to know.

[mcmcsalot]

Well, I have to head out now.  I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything.  Let's at least wait until manda has said something.  Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:

Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.

I hope it is B.  I want it to be B.  I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts.  I actually think this is A.  Morgrim fakeclaiming as town.  It makes no sense.  It is bizarre.  It doesn't help at all.  I mean, it could be C but I just don't know.  I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.

you are a D1 unconfirmed claimed town power role, by no means unoficial IC, your claim just wasn't so bonkers it's worth keeping you around because you may be telling the truth.

Claiming and not being countered doesn't give you towncred it makes you a unappealing lynch

[Jimmmmm]

Well, I have to head out now.  I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything.  Let's at least wait until manda has said something.  Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:

Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.

I hope it is B.  I want it to be B.  I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts.  I actually think this is A.  Morgrim fakeclaiming as town.  It makes no sense.  It is bizarre.  It doesn't help at all.  I mean, it could be C but I just don't know.  I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.

Please not A. If it's A I'm policy lynching Morgrim for the next like 5 games.

I could go either way on B or C. I'd probably lean C at about 55-45.

[ashersky]

Lying as town is so very, very bad.  So I refuse to consider "A" an option, because if it is, it's just as bad as B.

So I think B or C, in that order.  I'd flip Jimmmmm, saying maybe 60-40 scum.

[Robz888]

Lying as town is so very, very bad.  So I refuse to consider "A" an option, because if it is, it's just as bad as B.

So I think B or C, in that order.  I'd flip Jimmmmm, saying maybe 60-40 scum.

Agreed.

[Jorbles]

Well, I have to head out now.  I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything.  Let's at least wait until manda has said something.  Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:

Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.

I hope it is B.  I want it to be B.  I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts.  I actually think this is A.  Morgrim fakeclaiming as town.  It makes no sense.  It is bizarre.  It doesn't help at all.  I mean, it could be C but I just don't know.  I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.

I do not consider you IC, but I acknowledge that your claim is possible. I do not know whether I feel A, B or C is most likely. It's not that I'm not thinking about it I just can't wrap my head around why he would do this in any situation. I'll guess I'll run it through here.

Let's assume that even though Morgrim acts a little crazy there is some rational reason behind his claim.

A: If it's A he might think it's useful to try and draw the NK. I think this is a horrible strategy, but it is one possible reason.
B: He might be trying to keep himself alive for a little while, and sew confusion for town. This might actually be a worthwhile strategy as the traitor (or if the traitor I could see this being possible too). Claim for no reason, confuse everyone, if you draw the NK your team mates will become aware that you are actually the traitor when the kill doesn't proc (assuming they don't strongman it). When you eventually get lynched maybe you've gotten the game to a state where everyone has terrible reads and your team mates can win.
C: He might actually be the tracker, the reason being that maybe he thinks that scum won't believe him, and will leave him alive for a mislynch. They probably wouldn't have killed him anyways though so ummmm I'm not sure why you'd do this. He wasn't going to get NKed tonight, scum like to leave him alive in hopes that he'll be mislynched. So this claim would actually make him more likely to get killed than before.

I would not do any of these strategies, but B seems more rational than the others. Assuming Morgrim is acting rationally is not something you can count on though. I guess I think B is probably most likely if we assume he's acting rationally. I'd say there's about a 50/50 shot that he's acting rationally though. If he's not it doesn't matter what his reasoning was.

I think I would lynch Morgrim. Either he's acting rationally and is scum or he's a detriment to town so we might as well get it over with and lynch him. Am I missing any reasons why it might be a good idea to do this as A or C?

[Jorbles]

Okay, this is L-2.

Vote: Morgrim7

[Jimmmmm]

Are we all going to feel dumb if Morgrim flips Tracker?

[ashersky]

Are we all going to feel dumb if Morgrim flips Tracker?

No.  We're all going to continue being unhappy to livid.

[2.71828.....]

So "head out" ended up meaning "get a haircut and drive home" so here are some more thoughts:

If you think it's A, why did you vote for him ?

I don't think it's A. Even Morgrim isn't that crazy. Which is why I think B is the most likely, although it could be C. I'm not fine with lynching him if it's C (even if he's the least helpful Tracker ever, he would still be town), but there's obviously no way to know.

while driving home I cooled of a bit and realized that my vote was mostly a rage vote. Then I thought to myself, I don't like rage votes they are bad for town. And then I realized that morgrim could very well be the tracker. (Hasn't considered jorbles thoughts on B, which I will comment on soon) I should not rage vote. Even if it turns out that morgrim is a VT, we should not lynch him because that hurts town. So upon getting home I was willing to recant my vote on morgrim and get back to more [hopefully] level-headed play.

Jorbles thoughts on him being a traitor make a lot of sense though. I do not think he is regular scum. I should add a point D: fake claiming as the traitor.

[2.71828.....]

As far as me being IC, I know that is not the case. But it was just fun to claim. I will never be confirmed town as the bodyguard, because my position is such that I have to die in order to be useful. so my death is really the only thing to prove my innocence. Until then it is WIFOM.