Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factor, X. You are a Mafia goon, along with Y. Additionally you know a Mafia Traitor exists, but you do not know who they are. You have the following abilities:
-Factional communication: You may talk with your mafia partners at [quicktopic link goes here] during night phases and before the start of day one.
-Factional kill: Every night, one living member of the mafia may PM me with the name of someone who you want to kill, as well as who you want to be the killer (if no killer is specified, I will assume that the person sending the PM is the killer). That person will die unless in some way protected.
Win condition: You win when all members of the town are dead and at least one member of the mafia is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
- Before the game begins, you may choose up to three of the following abilities to add to your faction, but for each ability you add town will get an additional ability:
Change a Mafia Goon to Mafia Role Cop
Change a Mafia Goon to Mafia Bulletproof
Change a Mafia Goon to Mafia JOAT (One Shot Ninja, One Shot Strongman)
Recruit the Mafia Traitor as a Mafia Goon
Enable passive daytalk
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are a Mafia Traitor. You know that [Player Name] and [Player Name] are Mafia Goons, but they do not know who you are. You have the following abilities:
You have a one shot bulletproof ability if you are not recruited.
If you are not recruited and are the last surviving member of the mafia, you will take over the factional kill.
If you are recruited by the mafia you will become a mafia goon, but may be given an additional power as well.
Win condition: You win when all members of the town are dead and at least one member of the mafia is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X, you are Y from MMMMMMM, a Vanilla Townie. You may receive a power role later in the game.
You win when all threats to mafia have been eliminated. Please confirm via reply PM.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Tracker. You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a player. You will be informed who, if anyone, they targeted during the night.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Goon Cop You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a player. You will receive a result of "Goon", "Not a Goon" or "No Result".
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Roleblocker. You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a player. They will be prevented from performing any actions for the night.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Innocent Child. You have the following abilities:
-You are confirmed town to the rest of the game by the moderator.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Bodyguard. You have the following abilities:
-Each night you may target a player. If they would die during the night, you will die in their place.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Vigilante. You have the following abilities:
- Each night you may target a player to attempt to kill.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Mafia Bulletproof. You have the following abilities:
- You are immune to all night kills
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Mafia JOAT. You have the following abilities:
- Once during any night you may use a ninja kill. This kill will be unable to be tracked.
Once during any night you may use a strongman kill. This kill will unable to be blocked by any method.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Recruited Goon. Welcome, [Player Name]. You are now a Mafia Goon with [Player Name] who is a XXX and [Player Name] who is a YYY. You have the following abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner(s) here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Can I play, please?
I do, I do!Can I play, please?
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
Does a golden ticket in my mind work?
/in
/in
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4MNi9Ch7QuAFlV2yASnxJGZkihDlCXjeJSSBOLNr-HYUHE5zm)
You found a Golden Ticket!
/in if it start after November 8.
Incredibly hurt and devastated that I wasn't auto-inned.
So in a way, the basic set up is:
2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Traitor
2 Random Town PRs
7 VTs
Then, mafia may choose up to 3 out of 5 modifications. If they do, town receives an equal number of additional PRs. All town PRs are determined randomly.
Is that right?
Incredibly hurt and devastated that I wasn't auto-inned.
Did you get a Golden Ticket?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4MNi9Ch7QuAFlV2yASnxJGZkihDlCXjeJSSBOLNr-HYUHE5zm)
But I want an Oompa Loompa now...
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4MNi9Ch7QuAFlV2yASnxJGZkihDlCXjeJSSBOLNr-HYUHE5zm)
Those mechanics are awesome and so is this theme. In.
Those mechanics are awesome and so is this theme. In.
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4MNi9Ch7QuAFlV2yASnxJGZkihDlCXjeJSSBOLNr-HYUHE5zm)
Hey everyone !
I've been called out by yuma for reading up on old mafia games in the past week (I read all of MI and III, skimmed through II because of the huge walls of texts), and they definitely have made me want to try this out. I've played Mafia before... kinda. I've never played any kind of Internet Mafia, but there is a game here (France) called The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow, which is basically Werewolf/Mafia, although I've always played with the variant that roles are not revealed upon kill (which makes it a very different game).
In any case, I'd be glad to join, as from what I've read so far it looks very fun (and this particular setup seems interesting enough).
Hey everyone !
I've been called out by yuma for reading up on old mafia games in the past week (I read all of MI and III, skimmed through II because of the huge walls of texts), and they definitely have made me want to try this out. I've played Mafia before... kinda. I've never played any kind of Internet Mafia, but there is a game here (France) called The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow, which is basically Werewolf/Mafia, although I've always played with the variant that roles are not revealed upon kill (which makes it a very different game).
In any case, I'd be glad to join, as from what I've read so far it looks very fun (and this particular setup seems interesting enough).
As it happens, I do !
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/kashmirhill/files/2012/10/GoldenTicket.gif)
As far as Werewolf / Werwolwes of... goes, I actually have no idea what the differences are. I've played games with flips before, but I don't think it works as well when playing IRL with non-gamers. Online with gamers though, it definitely seems like the better option.
@Jimmmm : Thanks ! Yeah, and I also now that I should avoid smileys if I don't want Robz against me... although a lot may have change in 30+ games I guess.
/in
/in:o I must play with the MORGRIM. /in
Hey everyone !
I've been called out by yuma for reading up on old mafia games in the past week (I read all of MI and III, skimmed through II because of the huge walls of texts), and they definitely have made me want to try this out. I've played Mafia before... kinda. I've never played any kind of Internet Mafia, but there is a game here (France) called The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow, which is basically Werewolf/Mafia, although I've always played with the variant that roles are not revealed upon kill (which makes it a very different game).
In any case, I'd be glad to join, as from what I've read so far it looks very fun (and this particular setup seems interesting enough).
/in
/in
/in:o I must play with the MORGRIM. /in
/in:o I must play with the MORGRIM. /in
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
No. Am I not allowed to play now?/in
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
No. Am I not allowed to play now?/in
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
Kidding. Of course I do. Id rather PM it to you though, so nobody sees it. Am i allowed to do that?
Too good a group to stay away, besides its been awhile. /in
I'm dead in M34, so I can /in here!
Too good a group to stay away, besides its been awhile. /in
9. This game will have 10 day deadlines and 2 day nights. Because this game may run into two major American Holidays (Thanksgiving and Christmas) 2 days will be added to deadlines if those holidays occur during a day. If those holidays occur during a night, the night will be extended 2 days.
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3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. In the event of an incorrect vote count the mod has the right to revert the game state back to the state before the erroneous vote count. This means that any votes cast in the meantime will become void. Any time that was lost during this event will be added back onto deadlines. Please note that if a mistake is not caught before a flip, the erroneous vote count will become binding. Please help the mod by making sure vote counts--not just your votes--are accurate.
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7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. If you have a Power Role and go on VLA for longer than 2 days (the time period of a Night) please submit a temporary Night Action to the mod before leaving on VLA. This will be a placeholder action in the event that you will be absent during the night. Failure to submit an action before leaving will result in a "no action" that night if you do not return from VLA before the end of night.
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8. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Once the game has started requests to /out are final once submitted to the mod. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Any /outs made in the thread will be ignored by the mod.
Any /outs made in the thread will be ignored by the mod.
/out, turns out my Golden Ticket was a phony. Can you believe it?
Any /outs made in the thread will be ignored by the mod.
Awesome!!!! This doesn't count then./out, turns out my Golden Ticket was a phony. Can you believe it?
Please note these important changes to the Mafia Ruleset for this game
Once the game has started requests to /out are final once submitted to the mod. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Any /outs made in the thread will be ignored by the mod.
Oh crap /in /in /in (after the 8th)!
Oh crap /in /in /in (after the 8th)!
Man... I was worried someone was going to swoop in and steal your spot....
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4MNi9Ch7QuAFlV2yASnxJGZkihDlCXjeJSSBOLNr-HYUHE5zm)
When is this expected to start? (I'm not in a rush, I'm VLA from Friday to Tuesday)
Heavily considering an /out. Leave me in for now, but just know I may need to give up my spot.
Hmm, I better finish eating that chocolate bar. I wonder if I'll find anything inside...
I figured Arch's RMM game is likely to open in the next few days.Hah! I wouldn't count on it. :P
But I want an Oompa Loompa NOW.
We break into your usual programming Forum Survivor with breaking news. In the latest episode of widespread forgery government officials have discovered three, yes that is right three people suspected of forging tickets to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. This isn't the first attempt at such blatant disregard for everything Willy Wonka stands for, but government authorities wish to assure everyone that they will remain ever vigilant in hunting down forgers and will prosecute those they currently have in custody to the full extent of the law. Here are the photos of those accused of forgery:
(https://lh4.ggpht.com/RAL24klyPvX7F-4p-hvtAt4wayiHNTFnxKXxD7dUGx2Qvcg2hKXkdH-9RcCXtCXTqQ397mY=s85) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/avatars/Dominion%20Cards/pawn.jpg) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/avatars/Dark%20Ages/count.jpg)
Government officials are unsure whether the three worked together or whether there are more potential collaborators or not. Please send any tips of potential forgers to the proper authorities at 1-800-555-SCAMS.
The bright side of this development means there are now three Golden Tickets on the lose out in the world in chocolate bar wrappers. For days people had believed there were none left and chocolate sales had dropped dramatically. Business owners expect stores to sell out within hours as people try and snag these last three elusive tickets
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
We break into your usual programming Forum Survivor with breaking news. In the latest episode of widespread forgery government officials have discovered three, yes that is right three people suspected of forging tickets to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. This isn't the first attempt at such blatant disregard for everything Willy Wonka stands for, but government authorities wish to assure everyone that they will remain ever vigilant in hunting down forgers and will prosecute those they currently have in custody to the full extent of the law. Here are the photos of those accused of forgery:
(https://lh4.ggpht.com/RAL24klyPvX7F-4p-hvtAt4wayiHNTFnxKXxD7dUGx2Qvcg2hKXkdH-9RcCXtCXTqQ397mY=s85) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/avatars/Dominion%20Cards/pawn.jpg) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/avatars/Dark%20Ages/count.jpg)
Government officials are unsure whether the three worked together or whether there are more potential collaborators or not. Please send any tips of potential forgers to the proper authorities at 1-800-555-SCAMS.
The bright side of this development means there are now three Golden Tickets on the lose out in the world in chocolate bar wrappers. For days people had believed there were none left and chocolate sales had dropped dramatically. Business owners expect stores to sell out within hours as people try and snag these last three elusive tickets
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
+1 billion
I'm now telling the computer exactly what it could do with a life time supply of chocolate.
I'm going to have to sit this one out. I'm trying to make an effort to play less games, I thought I'd start after this but I just realized I'm going to china on monday, don't know what my availability will be, but likely only mornings and evenings at the hotel.. I'll probably have a hard enough time with the games I'm in currently.
I might be available to sub in though if the need arises.
Someone should take my place though! This game is going to be a hoot, I'm sure.
Mrgh, I want to /in, but this is a -real- game, not BM, so I'm concerned about toasting habits.
ash showing his true American colors here :P
ash showing his true American colors here :P
Ironic, given I'm on the Australian World Cup Dominion Team.
Mrgh, I want to /in, but this is a -real- game, not BM, so I'm concerned about toasting habits.
Mrgh, I want to /in, but this is a -real- game, not BM, so I'm concerned about toasting habits.
I count you as /in for now. But let me know if you feel that you want to /out later.
6. As a general rule you should aim for more than one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. Please treat this game as a commitment. If you can't commit to this game because of outside activities/responsibilities, other forum games or other contributing factors please /out before the start of the game.
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5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
Actually.../in.
Actually.../in.
Do you have a Golden Ticket?
Count my spot as open if there's someone else interested with a better schedule. Don't let me get in the way of the game starting.
Count my spot as open if there's someone else interested with a better schedule. Don't let me get in the way of the game starting.
Manda, how about we count your spot as IN so we can start the game? We're okay with you just posting a few times a day.
Count my spot as open if there's someone else interested with a better schedule. Don't let me get in the way of the game starting.
Manda, how about we count your spot as IN so we can start the game? We're okay with you just posting a few times a day.
Are you wanting to start it now? I REALLY can't start until after Thanksgiving.
Count my spot as open if there's someone else interested with a better schedule. Don't let me get in the way of the game starting.
Manda, how about we count your spot as IN so we can start the game? We're okay with you just posting a few times a day.
Are you wanting to start it now? I REALLY can't start until after Thanksgiving.
But really, it's like this.
You confirm in. Yuma gets PMs out tonight or tomorrow. We have at 24-48 hours of pre-game for mafia to chat, etc. Game starts up and it's what, Saturday night? Sunday? You post once or twice a day Sunday-Thursday, and it's all of a sudden post-Tgiving.
No pressure.
Count my spot as open if there's someone else interested with a better schedule. Don't let me get in the way of the game starting.
Manda, how about we count your spot as IN so we can start the game? We're okay with you just posting a few times a day.
Are you wanting to start it now? I REALLY can't start until after Thanksgiving.
But really, it's like this.
You confirm in. Yuma gets PMs out tonight or tomorrow. We have at 24-48 hours of pre-game for mafia to chat, etc. Game starts up and it's what, Saturday night? Sunday? You post once or twice a day Sunday-Thursday, and it's all of a sudden post-Tgiving.
No pressure.
Oh okay, what the hell. Who needs responsibility, right?
/in
Wooooooo Mafiaaaa yeahhhhh
(Hint: it involves lynching Voltaire)
I'm on board. We just don't get along!
Vote: Voltaire
I'm going to be really and truly VLA until Sunday afternoon.
(Hint: it involves lynching Voltaire)
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
I haven't read any past games with a similar set-up to this one, but I think Robz makes a good point. Since there's not a way to get that info to the IC privately and let him interpret it without everyone knowing, it seems like it would give way too much information to the mafia.
Which kind of information is it that you think the mafia could use against us?
I think I agree with Robz here. I don't see what would be gained by a theory discussion in this setup, it seems like all we'd be doing is giving mafia info about what we think they've done, which I'm sure can be useful to them... somehow ?
I think I agree with Robz here. I don't see what would be gained by a theory discussion in this setup, it seems like all we'd be doing is giving mafia info about what we think they've done, which I'm sure can be useful to them... somehow ?
How? HOW can it be useful for them?! Everyone who is opposed to this remains awfully vague as to how discussing this would benefit scum.
Here's what I think: Going through this is going to help us determine how many PRs there are and against what we are playing. Both things that the mafia already knows. I seriously doubt that this will hurt us.
I think I agree with Robz here. I don't see what would be gained by a theory discussion in this setup, it seems like all we'd be doing is giving mafia info about what we think they've done, which I'm sure can be useful to them... somehow ?
How? HOW can it be useful for them?! Everyone who is opposed to this remains awfully vague as to how discussing this would benefit scum.
Here's what I think: Going through this is going to help us determine how many PRs there are and against what we are playing. Both things that the mafia already knows. I seriously doubt that this will hurt us.
How are we going to determine how many PRs there are short of claiming PR/non-PR? Do you really trust scum to tell us what they actually picked?
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
Okay, yeah you're right.
On the plus side, this makes me an IC now, yes?
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
Okay, yeah you're right.
On the plus side, this makes me an IC now, yes?
You're claiming IC status?
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
Okay, yeah you're right.
On the plus side, this makes me an IC now, yes?
You're claiming IC status?
Because the act of claiming IC status nullifies any Town points you may have otherwise received.
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
Okay, yeah you're right.
On the plus side, this makes me an IC now, yes?
You're claiming IC status?
Because the act of claiming IC status nullifies any Town points you may have otherwise received.
Discrediting the IC! This is Voltaire's fullproof way of finding scum.
What a laughably easy Day 1. Vote: Jimm
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.
I think he was serious about deserving town points, but not about you being scummy for not giving them.
I think he was serious about deserving town points, but not about you being scummy for not giving them.
In fact, the opposite.
I think he was serious about deserving town points, but not about you being scummy for not giving them.
In fact, the opposite.
Well that makes no sense. You were not serious about being an IC but you were serious about me "discrediting the IC" which you were not serious about?
I think he was serious about deserving town points, but not about you being scummy for not giving them.
In fact, the opposite.
Well that makes no sense. You were not serious about being an IC but you were serious about me "discrediting the IC" which you were not serious about?
I don't think I'm actually an IC now--although I reserve the right to demand to be treated like one--but I do think you got a little too enthusiastic and desperate to communicate your point that I wasn't an IC.
In fact vote: Robz. Even disregarding all this IC quasi-joking, from what I've seen scum!Robz is active and vibrant, while his town self is notoriously aloof. Despite the fact that he's been V/LA he's been one of the most frequent posters so far. Normally this would be a good thing. But for Robz it raises warning flags.
I think he was serious about deserving town points, but not about you being scummy for not giving them.
In fact, the opposite.
Well that makes no sense. You were not serious about being an IC but you were serious about me "discrediting the IC" which you were not serious about?
I don't think I'm actually an IC now--although I reserve the right to demand to be treated like one--but I do think you got a little too enthusiastic and desperate to communicate your point that I wasn't an IC.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
I think this exercise is really quite useless. I'm not mafia, so I didn't give this question any thought, so now I'm like going over the setup trying to figure out what I would do if I was not my own role PM, and this seems pretty pointless. I mean I don't know that the people who ARE mafia are going to agree with me on what PRs are the right choices.
Okay, well I would not take BP; what's the point? There may not even be a Vig, and Vig's shoot town (mostly).
Role Cop seems overly risky and unnecessary, given that town could have a Tracker.
With JOAT, Strongman kill can backfire here if you shoot your Mafia Traitor.
I'm not convinced recruiting the Traitor is worthwhile.
Weird as it sounds, I might take just Daychat, or even nothing.
Agree with most of this. I think day chat is coolest. I think all or none would be my play.What do you mean with "all"? You can only take three out of five.
Agree with most of this. I think day chat is coolest. I think all or none would be my play.What do you mean with "all"? You can only take three out of five.
Which kind of information is it that you think the mafia could use against us?
I suppose our PRs might be biased to think that mafia chose more powers since they themselves have a PR (even though town has 2 PRs anyway)...I actually don't think this could go wrong as long as people are careful.
So, ash, do you actually have a plan?
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
I think this exercise is really quite useless. I'm not mafia, so I didn't give this question any thought, so now I'm like going over the setup trying to figure out what I would do if I was not my own role PM, and this seems pretty pointless. I mean I don't know that the people who ARE mafia are going to agree with me on what PRs are the right choices.
Please be aware that if you role one of the two mafia roles you have 24 hours to decide what sort of upgrades you would like so be ready for that
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
I think this exercise is really quite useless. I'm not mafia, so I didn't give this question any thought, so now I'm like going over the setup trying to figure out what I would do if I was not my own role PM, and this seems pretty pointless. I mean I don't know that the people who ARE mafia are going to agree with me on what PRs are the right choices.
Seriously? Like, you didn't read this?Please be aware that if you role one of the two mafia roles you have 24 hours to decide what sort of upgrades you would like so be ready for that
I absolutely thought about what roles I want to take if I get a mafia PM. Are you just trying to paint yourself extra-townie?
FoS: Robz
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
I think this exercise is really quite useless. I'm not mafia, so I didn't give this question any thought, so now I'm like going over the setup trying to figure out what I would do if I was not my own role PM, and this seems pretty pointless. I mean I don't know that the people who ARE mafia are going to agree with me on what PRs are the right choices.
Seriously? Like, you didn't read this?Please be aware that if you role one of the two mafia roles you have 24 hours to decide what sort of upgrades you would like so be ready for that
I absolutely thought about what roles I want to take if I get a mafia PM. Are you just trying to paint yourself extra-townie?
FoS: Robz
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
"Didn't read the setup Robz" is also town!robz. He knows this and could try to fake it, but I don't think he is.
Remember, "claim the wrong pr and get lynched on D1 as town anyway" is also a Robz that exists. Other vets will back me up here, I think.
Scum!robz isn't this easy.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Meaning your statement was you being truthful about what you did as scum and masked as an "if I were scum" statement. You are pulling a purloined letter.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Meaning your statement was you being truthful about what you did as scum and masked as an "if I were scum" statement. You are pulling a purloined letter.
I wasn't pulling anything. This was in response to a question asking what we would do as scum.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Meaning your statement was you being truthful about what you did as scum and masked as an "if I were scum" statement. You are pulling a purloined letter.
I wasn't pulling anything. This was in response to a question asking what we would do as scum.
And I'm saying you did exactly what you wrote. You assign values and chose roles based on them. Then you told us you would do it so we would think you didn't.
I mean, not solid by any means, but it's early D1.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Meaning your statement was you being truthful about what you did as scum and masked as an "if I were scum" statement. You are pulling a purloined letter.
I wasn't pulling anything. This was in response to a question asking what we would do as scum.
And I'm saying you did exactly what you wrote. You assign values and chose roles based on them. Then you told us you would do it so we would think you didn't.
I mean, not solid by any means, but it's early D1.
Well yeah I've done that sort of thing before as scum. But there's no basis to your accusation. You could pick anyone's response to the question and say exactly the same thing. I just said what crossed my mind when I initially read the setup, before I knew my alignment.
Initially posted in the wrong thread:
I think if I was scum I would find a way to give each scum and Town power a rating, and pick the scum powers which have ratings above the average for Town powers. Sounds like a lot of work though.
vote: jimmmmm for hiding in plain sight.
Meaning?
Meaning your statement was you being truthful about what you did as scum and masked as an "if I were scum" statement. You are pulling a purloined letter.
I wasn't pulling anything. This was in response to a question asking what we would do as scum.
And I'm saying you did exactly what you wrote. You assign values and chose roles based on them. Then you told us you would do it so we would think you didn't.
I mean, not solid by any means, but it's early D1.
Well yeah I've done that sort of thing before as scum. But there's no basis to your accusation. You could pick anyone's response to the question and say exactly the same thing. I just said what crossed my mind when I initially read the setup, before I knew my alignment.
Probably. But yours stuck out, so I voted. At the very least, it got some convo going and a reaction on record. Others can weigh in.
"Didn't read the setup Robz" is also town!robz. He knows this and could try to fake it, but I don't think he is.
Remember, "claim the wrong pr and get lynched on D1 as town anyway" is also a Robz that exists. Other vets will back me up here, I think.
Scum!robz isn't this easy.
Were you aware at the time that I'd received two of the previous three votes? Did that factor into your vote?
Were you aware at the time that I'd received two of the previous three votes? Did that factor into your vote?
Worried about a wagon now? Didn't you just say a bit ago early wagons dissipate and aren't worth worrying about?
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
Goodness, I don't know. *Checks roles* JoAT and Bulletproof seem weaker than the average Town role, but of course also provide Godfather in case there's a Cop. Daytalk is great but probably not worth giving Town an extra role. Recruiting the Traitor would be good, but of couse is an anti-Godfather. In the end I'd probably take the Role Cop and see what my partner thought about recruiting the Traitor.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
Goodness, I don't know. *Checks roles* JoAT and Bulletproof seem weaker than the average Town role, but of course also provide Godfather in case there's a Cop. Daytalk is great but probably not worth giving Town an extra role. Recruiting the Traitor would be good, but of couse is an anti-Godfather. In the end I'd probably take the Role Cop and see what my partner thought about recruiting the Traitor.
Um, I think you read the setup wrong Robz. Mafia doesn't choose the PRs town has, it chooses it's own PRs and then town gets X PRs, where X is the number of PRs mafia took.
During pre-game, mafia have 24 hours to select which (if any) of the modifications they want to their team. A maximum of three modifications may be selected.
- Bulletproof (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bulletproof)
- Role Cop (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop) - The Role Cop can both perform the kill and perform the role copping in the same night.
- JOAT (1 shot Strongman (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strongman), 1 shot Ninja (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ninja))
- Daytalk (passive ability)
- Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon
For each modification that is selected by the mafia, town gains an additional role as well. The town has two roles to start, resulting in a maximum of five town roles randomly selected from the following:
- Goon Cop - returns results of Goon, Not Goon or no result regardless of alignment.
- Roleblocker (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker)
- Tracker (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tracker)
- Bodyguard (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bodyguard)
- Vigilante (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante)
- Innocent Child (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Innocent_Child) (reveal at start of day one)
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
That's actually what I was saying 2.7, except I apparently forgot to say "X+2" in my post.if that is the case i need to redo my power rankings
JOAT isn't an extra NK, it's instead of the regular night kill, right ?
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.
I still don't think it's a great idea but sure.
I would have picked JOAT+Roleblocker, for two reasons. First, these are the only two that actually fight PRs. Second, it makes the Goon Cop completely useless
Maybe Day Chat is very powerful and I'm underestimating it though.
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.
Yeah, that seems like something I might see Robz fake for a bit of town cred. I'm willing to vote Robz (once I catch up).
That's actually what I was saying 2.7, except I apparently forgot to say "X+2" in my post.
JOAT isn't an extra NK, it's instead of the regular night kill, right ?
My Personal Mafia PR PR (Power Role Power Ranking).
1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
2. Daytalk (passive ability) - Can be very useful in developing strategies during the day.
3. Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon - Useful for several reasons. Don't want to mistakenly kill your buddy, day or night.
4. Role Cop - Could be useful, but not as much as the others
5. Bulletproof - one town PR can possibly kill you, and why risk taking a PR that could end up useless if town doesn't even get the Vigilante?
Actually changing my answer a bit, just more likely to pick a pr now then before, the ic sucks in this setup(no offense Faust) I believe most of an Ic's power has nothing to do with who roles it and what they do, it all has to do with the setup which does not favor an ic here. So now there really aren't many good powers.
I would definitely go for Daytalk and Recruiting, waiting to get the result back about JOAT but I think you all are right. So that really drops JOAT down to #4. In which case I am also doing Role Cop. I am not scared of the town PRs as mafia. And besides, lots of PRs make a more interesting game.My Personal Mafia PR PR (Power Role Power Ranking).
1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
2. Daytalk (passive ability) - Can be very useful in developing strategies during the day.
3. Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon - Useful for several reasons. Don't want to mistakenly kill your buddy, day or night.
4. Role Cop - Could be useful, but not as much as the others
5. Bulletproof - one town PR can possibly kill you, and why risk taking a PR that could end up useless if town doesn't even get the Vigilante?
How many of those would you pick as mafia?
In fact vote: Robz. Even disregarding all this IC quasi-joking, from what I've seen scum!Robz is active and vibrant, while his town self is notoriously aloof. Despite the fact that he's been V/LA he's been one of the most frequent posters so far. Normally this would be a good thing. But for Robz it raises warning flags.
Lies. All lies.
"Didn't read the setup Robz" is also town!robz. He knows this and could try to fake it, but I don't think he is.
Remember, "claim the wrong pr and get lynched on D1 as town anyway" is also a Robz that exists. Other vets will back me up here, I think.
Scum!robz isn't this easy.
You know what this reminds me of ? It reminds of mail-mi in GoT, where he got away with a super scummy voting history because "oh, he's just mail-mi". People are aware of what their meta are, they can play around with that. I'm fine with my vote for now.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
You actually stole my plan.
I'm on board. We just don't get along!
Vote: Voltaire
I'm going to be really and truly VLA until Sunday afternoon.
I've seen this Robz before. This is scum Robz.
Vote: Robz
Okay so to answer the pr question thingy, for me it would depend on the scum team I was with. If I was with a team I thought could win I would chose no additional powers, if I was with a team I thought was very strategic but not so good at mid day communication I would pick day talk, and if I was with a team I though was really going to need help I would pick recruit.
I'm on board. We just don't get along!
Vote: Voltaire
I'm going to be really and truly VLA until Sunday afternoon.
I've seen this Robz before. This is scum Robz.
Vote: Robz
Was this a serious statement?
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
I haven't read any past games with a similar set-up to this one, but I think Robz makes a good point. Since there's not a way to get that info to the IC privately and let him interpret it without everyone knowing, it seems like it would give way too much information to the mafia.
Why the morgrim vote Voltaire?
Discrediting the IC! This is Voltaire's fullproof way of finding scum.
What a laughably easy Day 1. Vote: Jimm
I like it! vote: jimm
ashersky - None or 3 (not specified which)
I like that we had two quick wagons though. I want to re-read them more closely. At the moment though I'm not getting anything but null about Robz himself.
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
I haven't read any past games with a similar set-up to this one, but I think Robz makes a good point. Since there's not a way to get that info to the IC privately and let him interpret it without everyone knowing, it seems like it would give way too much information to the mafia.
So, Robz, is manda an IC too?
This may actually be slight townpoints for manda. None for Robz because Robz, but the line of thinking is not a bad one.
Okay so to answer the pr question thingy, for me it would depend on the scum team I was with. If I was with a team I thought could win I would chose no additional powers, if I was with a team I thought was very strategic but not so good at mid day communication I would pick day talk, and if I was with a team I though was really going to need help I would pick recruit.
Which partners would go with which scenarios?
Discrediting the IC! This is Voltaire's fullproof way of finding scum.
What a laughably easy Day 1. Vote: Jimm
I like it! vote: jimm
What about this? Was this vote serious?
Okay so to answer the pr question thingy, for me it would depend on the scum team I was with. If I was with a team I thought could win I would chose no additional powers, if I was with a team I thought was very strategic but not so good at mid day communication I would pick day talk, and if I was with a team I though was really going to need help I would pick recruit.
Which partners would go with which scenarios?
I haven't looked at everyone in this game and decided that, I made my decision looking at powers. I'm not going to call anyone out for being a good or bad mafia player but there are people with better records than others, their are people I have better chemistry with, I see no reason to go through this game and figure that out and say so.
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
I would have chosen Daytalk and JOAT. The other ones don't seem worth creating another town PR.
Discrediting the IC! This is Voltaire's fullproof way of finding scum.
What a laughably easy Day 1. Vote: Jimm
I like it! vote: jimm
What about this? Was this vote serious?
Yes, it is day one and my first serious mafia game in some time, the vote was serious I found robz argument to be somewhat valid and the way Jimm was acting to be somewhat scummy so I voted.
It's worth looking at again when we have some dead scum and dead PRs, of course, but for now, let's actually scumhunt.
#discredittheIC?
You don't get to tell me I'm not making contributions. I am making contributions. The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
Honest question: what value do you see in discrediting the IC? Is it more than that you just don't like his plan of talking about what we'd take as mafia?
The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
Honest question: what value do you see in discrediting the IC? Is it more than that you just don't like his plan of talking about what we'd take as mafia?
The smaller thing is that I don't think talking about what mafia PRs we'd pick is very useful.
The bigger thing is wanted to see how other player's would react to the IC's plan, given me coming out strongly against it.
The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
Honest question: what value do you see in discrediting the IC? Is it more than that you just don't like his plan of talking about what we'd take as mafia?
The smaller thing is that I don't think talking about what mafia PRs we'd pick is very useful.
The bigger thing is wanted to see how other player's would react to the IC's plan, given me coming out strongly against it.
What do you make out of their reactions now?
I personally see value in faust's plan. It gives us something to talk about early, and it might be useful to see what we all think would be strong (it seems like daychat is probably considered the best overall). Plus if someone flips scum and answered the question we can go back and gauge how honest we think they were given what we know.
I personally see value in faust's plan. It gives us something to talk about early, and it might be useful to see what we all think would be strong (it seems like daychat is probably considered the best overall). Plus if someone flips scum and answered the question we can go back and gauge how honest we think they were given what we know.
I do agree that it seems pretty likely we're facing a scum team with daychat. But I don't see how getting scum on the record about what they "would" chose will ever be anything other than WIFOM.
I personally see value in faust's plan. It gives us something to talk about early, and it might be useful to see what we all think would be strong (it seems like daychat is probably considered the best overall). Plus if someone flips scum and answered the question we can go back and gauge how honest we think they were given what we know.
I do agree that it seems pretty likely we're facing a scum team with daychat. But I don't see how getting scum on the record about what they "would" chose will ever be anything other than WIFOM.
WIFOM's better than nothing though.
That's actually what I was saying 2.7, except I apparently forgot to say "X+2" in my post.
JOAT isn't an extra NK, it's instead of the regular night kill, right ?
I think JOAT should not be an additional NK. That would be OP.
Just to make sure, let's ask the mod:
JOAT isn't an extra NK, it's instead of the regular night kill, right ?
Actually changing my answer a bit, just more likely to pick a pr now then before, the ic sucks in this setup(no offense Faust) I believe most of an Ic's power has nothing to do with who roles it and what they do, it all has to do with the setup which does not favor an ic here. So now there really aren't many good powers.
Yes, I agree. No watching, no doctor... it's likely that I'll be dead tomorrow, no additional information gained.
Now that most reservations regarding my question seem to be cleared, let me ask once again:
In your next post, please name the set of powers you would have picked as mafia.
If you don't know what this is for, well trust me on this. It won't hurt town at least. And contrary to ashersky, I actually have a plan.
You actually stole my plan.
Why didn't you say what your plan was right off the bat? Why wait until finding out what the IC is thinking?
Current power picking statements:
Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - ?
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or 3 (not specified which)
faust - TBA
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - ?
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
Ugh my schedule is such a mess.... I'm finally here and catching up. Post(s) to follow shortly.
Wow a lot to read since the last time I had a chance to check it.....
Not sure how I'd rank all the roles yet; I'll need to go back and look really closely at the setup, but I think daytalk is definitely the strongest role there. I know that, if I were scum, I'd be really nervous about trying to play out the day without a chance to openly rethink strategy with my partner, and daytalk would significantly decrease my stress level. Other than that, I'm not sure, but I think I agree with, ummm.... (not sure who said it lemme go look).... that adding a bunch of scum PRs wouldn't really be worth adding a ton of town PRs as well.
Also (and I say this feeling like I'm at a real disadvantage here because I have very little meta information to go off of and DEFINITELY don't have time to go back and examine it all. Such is life I guess), I am not sure I see the value in an extended discussion about whether someone is acting like town!themselves or scum!themselves, because an experienced player is likely knowledgable enough about their own meta to tailor their behavior to the self they want to come off as. That sort of discussion makes a lot of sense in a face-to-face mafia game, where people are having to think on the fly and it's easy to read panic in voices and body language, but this format allows people to be so calculating that I have a hard time seeing meta-analysis as being particularly helfpul...
Rage vote: Voltaire
The thing you quoted was a contribution, for goodness sake.
Honest question: what value do you see in discrediting the IC? Is it more than that you just don't like his plan of talking about what we'd take as mafia?
The smaller thing is that I don't think talking about what mafia PRs we'd pick is very useful.
The bigger thing is wanted to see how other player's would react to the IC's plan, given me coming out strongly against it.
What do you make out of their reactions now?
I don't know, I don't think everyone has even reacted to them yet. Of course now people know I'm really scrutinizing that, so it's a bit polluted. #thanksvoltaire
Wow a lot to read since the last time I had a chance to check it.....
Not sure how I'd rank all the roles yet; I'll need to go back and look really closely at the setup, but I think daytalk is definitely the strongest role there. I know that, if I were scum, I'd be really nervous about trying to play out the day without a chance to openly rethink strategy with my partner, and daytalk would significantly decrease my stress level. Other than that, I'm not sure, but I think I agree with, ummm.... (not sure who said it lemme go look).... that adding a bunch of scum PRs wouldn't really be worth adding a ton of town PRs as well.
Also (and I say this feeling like I'm at a real disadvantage here because I have very little meta information to go off of and DEFINITELY don't have time to go back and examine it all. Such is life I guess), I am not sure I see the value in an extended discussion about whether someone is acting like town!themselves or scum!themselves, because an experienced player is likely knowledgable enough about their own meta to tailor their behavior to the self they want to come off as. That sort of discussion makes a lot of sense in a face-to-face mafia game, where people are having to think on the fly and it's easy to read panic in voices and body language, but this format allows people to be so calculating that I have a hard time seeing meta-analysis as being particularly helfpul...
Is manda getting the newbie D1 pass? Just asking, because this was a scummy sounding post.
Wow a lot to read since the last time I had a chance to check it.....
Not sure how I'd rank all the roles yet; I'll need to go back and look really closely at the setup, but I think daytalk is definitely the strongest role there. I know that, if I were scum, I'd be really nervous about trying to play out the day without a chance to openly rethink strategy with my partner, and daytalk would significantly decrease my stress level. Other than that, I'm not sure, but I think I agree with, ummm.... (not sure who said it lemme go look).... that adding a bunch of scum PRs wouldn't really be worth adding a ton of town PRs as well.
Also (and I say this feeling like I'm at a real disadvantage here because I have very little meta information to go off of and DEFINITELY don't have time to go back and examine it all. Such is life I guess), I am not sure I see the value in an extended discussion about whether someone is acting like town!themselves or scum!themselves, because an experienced player is likely knowledgable enough about their own meta to tailor their behavior to the self they want to come off as. That sort of discussion makes a lot of sense in a face-to-face mafia game, where people are having to think on the fly and it's easy to read panic in voices and body language, but this format allows people to be so calculating that I have a hard time seeing meta-analysis as being particularly helfpul...
No newbie pas for manda. Manda is not a newbie. She played Mafia VII.
Has Morgrim said anything? Has Jorbles?
Manda, in the post I quoted, as well as in your most recent substantial one, you commit what I see as a pretty standard scumtell: hedging.
It's stuff like "not sure...but..." and "I think I agree with...need to check" and "I think saying this means..." and "likely" and other modifiers. You might call it hemming and hawing. Or wishy-washy. Or commitment adverse (like you and Dsell).
When you write a lot of text that seems to have a lot of substance, but actually don't take any firm stances and instead leave yourself a lot of "outs" like "maybes" and "I'll have to check," it's scummy.
That's why.
Has Morgrim said anything? Has Jorbles?
Jorbles has. Morgrim has not.
I was skimming through MII* for a lark, and one thing that Galz commented on at the end that struck me was how he and Robz barely used chat at all to coordinate, so as to keep their reactions as genuine as possible. Now I know this is frighteningly out of date.
Does one of you big-city liberal arts literary types care to explain what you mean by a purloined letter? :P I gather that it's a story by Poe. But what's the metaphor here.
I'm not seeing a better vote than Robz still so far. That rage!vote didn't help...I know Voltaire gets your goat Robz, but I believe that's more of a scumtell for you than town-.
Wow a lot to read since the last time I had a chance to check it.....
Not sure how I'd rank all the roles yet; I'll need to go back and look really closely at the setup, but I think daytalk is definitely the strongest role there. I know that, if I were scum, I'd be really nervous about trying to play out the day without a chance to openly rethink strategy with my partner, and daytalk would significantly decrease my stress level. Other than that, I'm not sure, but I think I agree with, ummm.... (not sure who said it lemme go look).... that adding a bunch of scum PRs wouldn't really be worth adding a ton of town PRs as well.
Also (and I say this feeling like I'm at a real disadvantage here because I have very little meta information to go off of and DEFINITELY don't have time to go back and examine it all. Such is life I guess), I am not sure I see the value in an extended discussion about whether someone is acting like town!themselves or scum!themselves, because an experienced player is likely knowledgable enough about their own meta to tailor their behavior to the self they want to come off as. That sort of discussion makes a lot of sense in a face-to-face mafia game, where people are having to think on the fly and it's easy to read panic in voices and body language, but this format allows people to be so calculating that I have a hard time seeing meta-analysis as being particularly helfpul...
Is manda getting the newbie D1 pass? Just asking, because this was a scummy sounding post.
Manda, in the post I quoted, as well as in your most recent substantial one, you commit what I see as a pretty standard scumtell: hedging.
It's stuff like "not sure...but..." and "I think I agree with...need to check" and "I think saying this means..." and "likely" and other modifiers. You might call it hemming and hawing. Or wishy-washy. Or commitment adverse (like you and Dsell).
When you write a lot of text that seems to have a lot of substance, but actually don't take any firm stances and instead leave yourself a lot of "outs" like "maybes" and "I'll have to check," it's scummy.
That's why.
It is, which is why this game will help rebalance things so that that's a null-tell again.
If we're facing two goons now, we have Faust + 1 PR. That's pretty weaksauce, honestly, so a good scum team might prefer that.
Has Morgrim said anything? Has Jorbles?
Jorbles has. Morgrim has not.
Can we get a prod on Morgrim?
Im gonna be vla on mon and tue.
Actually changing my answer a bit, just more likely to pick a pr now then before, the ic sucks in this setup(no offense Faust) I believe most of an Ic's power has nothing to do with who roles it and what they do, it all has to do with the setup which does not favor an ic here. So now there really aren't many good powers.
Yes, I agree. No watching, no doctor... it's likely that I'll be dead tomorrow, no additional information gained.
There's a Bodyguard possible. So you could live at that player's expense.
Yes, but I doubt it would be good play from a Bodyguard to protect me.
faust, in my last post I stated that I thought that the JOAT would be best for scum, you can check if you want. Some others have commented about daychat. Maybe I just haven't experienced its power first hand, but it seems like a waste to me. I was skimming through MII* for a lark, and one thing that Galz commented on at the end that struck me was how he and Robz barely used chat at all to coordinate, so as to keep their reactions as genuine as possible. Now I know this is frighteningly out of date. But that's what I think about daychat--not worth a town PR to me if I were wearing scum shoes.
Yes, but I doubt it would be good play from a Bodyguard to protect me.
Really? Isn't that ideal bodyguard play? Otherwise they're risking "protecting" mafia (a wasted action, but the Bodyguard isn't a Hider) or dying to save a VT. If the Bodyguard protects you, and mafia takes out you, we have another day with our IC.
Yes, but I doubt it would be good play from a Bodyguard to protect me.
Really? Isn't that ideal bodyguard play? Otherwise they're risking "protecting" mafia (a wasted action, but the Bodyguard isn't a Hider) or dying to save a VT. If the Bodyguard protects you, and mafia takes out you, we have another day with our IC.
What if there's say, a Cop that claims D2 because they have a guilty result? Then the Bodyguard can ensure they live for another Night, getting an extra result.
Yes, but I doubt it would be good play from a Bodyguard to protect me.
Really? Isn't that ideal bodyguard play? Otherwise they're risking "protecting" mafia (a wasted action, but the Bodyguard isn't a Hider) or dying to save a VT. If the Bodyguard protects you, and mafia takes out you, we have another day with our IC.
What if there's say, a Cop that claims D2 because they have a guilty result? Then the Bodyguard can ensure they live for another Night, getting an extra result.
Mmmmm, yes, but that's assuming 1. We have a cop 2. They can investigate anyone. If the mafia took JOAT and Rolecop, they're immune to the Cop and he's a useless PR (other than being a named Townie).
If the mafia took JOAT and Rolecop, there are 4 town PRs, so at least 2 better Bodyguard targets than me. Saving a Vigilante is better than saving me. Saving a Tracker is better than saving me. Saving a Roleblocker is better than saving me.
In fact, I propose a claiming plan: After we have our first PR outed (which is actually the second, because I am already outed), if anyone wants to claim, they first state the intent to do so. Then everyone else gets a chance to claim PR. We determine a claiming order somehow, and then all PRs fullclaim. This should make it harder for scum to fakeclaim.
Finally, what to make of people's power picks? Get in the head of scum for a moment. It doesn't matter much if you say the truth or not, but can you actually use this to manipulate town? Yes, you can! Make them believe there are lots of PRs out there, so that later a fakeclaim will look less suspicious. Because of that, slight FoS to all who took the 3 powers option.
I don't want an immediate massclaim after the second PR is outed. I want the massclaim when the third PR is about to claim. This is a substantial difference. So Voltaire, in your example, we don't massclaim right away at D2, we massclaim when the Goon Cop thinks he should claim.
What we absolutely shouldn't do is treat anyone who claims as an IC. It could always be a lucky fake claim.
I'm not sure that my plan would work great, but we have to do something to prevent mafia from getting safe fake claims.
I don't want an immediate massclaim after the second PR is outed. I want the massclaim when the third PR is about to claim. This is a substantial difference. So Voltaire, in your example, we don't massclaim right away at D2, we massclaim when the Goon Cop thinks he should claim.
What we absolutely shouldn't do is treat anyone who claims as an IC. It could always be a lucky fake claim.
I'm not sure that my plan would work great, but we have to do something to prevent mafia from getting safe fake claims.
I'm not sure how it's better than just letting PRs claim when they think they should claim, and we are as skeptical as necessary. Why force the other PRs to out themselves when one PR wants to claim? (if, say, we had a goon cop AND a tracker remaining in my example). What would we gain from the tracker getting outed? (in this mafia's odds go to 2/4 odds of getting away with it. I know many players who would play those odds).
I am just super-wary of fakeclaims.
Claiming meta-modification. Seems pretty bold to me. Excited to see where this goes. I tend to think this is more of a town move than scum, but I really like the way Robz just went all the way in there.I'm not seeing a better vote than Robz still so far. That rage!vote didn't help...I know Voltaire gets your goat Robz, but I believe that's more of a scumtell for you than town-.
It is, which is why this game will help rebalance things so that that's a null-tell again.
I wanted to wait for Morgrim, but he will be VLA today, and discussion should move on. So here's the (almost) final list:People who took the 3 powers option:
Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - JOAT
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or Daychat, JOAT, Recruit
faust – Role Cop (+Daychat)
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - Daychat
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
[stuff]
Finally, what to make of people's power picks? Get in the head of scum for a moment. It doesn't matter much if you say the truth or not, but can you actually use this to manipulate town? Yes, you can! Make them believe there are lots of PRs out there, so that later a fakeclaim will look less suspicious. Because of that, slight FoS to all who took the 3 powers option.
I guess Ashersky said he would do all or none, so can I include him in this list? Please? I don't want to be all alone with that FoS pointed at me
I wanted to wait for Morgrim, but he will be VLA today, and discussion should move on. So here's the (almost) final list:People who took the 3 powers option:
Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - JOAT
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or Daychat, JOAT, Recruit
faust – Role Cop (+Daychat)
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - Daychat
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
[stuff]
Finally, what to make of people's power picks? Get in the head of scum for a moment. It doesn't matter much if you say the truth or not, but can you actually use this to manipulate town? Yes, you can! Make them believe there are lots of PRs out there, so that later a fakeclaim will look less suspicious. Because of that, slight FoS to all who took the 3 powers option.
2.7
I guess Ashersky said he would do all or none, so can I include him in this list? Please? I don't want to be all alone with that FoS pointed at me
Massclaiming at any point seems pretty bad to me because mafia knows exactly how many PRs are in the game. So let's say mafia took 1 power, once 3 PR's have claimed, mafia is free to fakeclaim whatever the hell they want and be safe from a counterclaim. Having PRs hidden makes it very risky for mafia to fakeclaim because they don't know which PRs are actually in the game.
I'll think about this a bit more, but it's not a very relevant discussion for today anyway, is it ?
Massclaiming at any point seems pretty bad to me because mafia knows exactly how many PRs are in the game. So let's say mafia took 1 power, once 3 PR's have claimed, mafia is free to fakeclaim whatever the hell they want and be safe from a counterclaim. Having PRs hidden makes it very risky for mafia to fakeclaim because they don't know which PRs are actually in the game.
I'll think about this a bit more, but it's not a very relevant discussion for today anyway, is it ?
I do NOT favor a massclaim. I suggest you read my proposal again, carefully. I suggest that everyone claims when our likely last PR wants to claim anyway.
I don't want an immediate massclaim after the second PR is outed. I want the massclaim when the third PR is about to claim. This is a substantial difference. So Voltaire, in your example, we don't massclaim right away at D2, we massclaim when the Goon Cop thinks he should claim.
I don't want an immediate massclaim after the second PR is outed. I want the massclaim when the third PR is about to claim. This is a substantial difference. So Voltaire, in your example, we don't massclaim right away at D2, we massclaim when the Goon Cop thinks he should claim.
Seems to me you do want a massclaim ? I don't see how your plan gets away the problem I pointed out, which is that, once all town PRs have claimed, mafia can fakeclaim anything. The only case where this isn't true is if mafia chose 3 powers.
before I answer if I think fausts reasoning is correct, let me make sure I understand his reasoning. Faust, am I correct to summarize by saying:
Scum want town to think there are a lot of PRs out there in order to fakeclaim these roles to prevent themselves from being lynched at any given time.
vote: Teproc
Reread his posts, they all game me a very scummy vibe.
The way he is pushing Robz lynch is scummy to me, he seems to be going at it as scum trying to push a lynch. Rather than town looking for scum.
I don't agree with this. From what I see he doesn't seem particularly scummy to me. Most of what he's said seems pretty rational, but maybe that's just because I found Robz scummy too. (However I do think this is the sort of post we should be moving towards. Mass claim discussions are a waste of time right now. Let's save it for a week or two from now.)
In that case, no. I do not agree with that line of reasoning.
I do not think fake claiming will help the mafia. In a game where scum control the PRs (or at least how many PRs that exist) every claim should be met with a certain level of scrutiny. Why put yourself through that? You are setting yourself up to be lynched. You will probably only be able to take a single town member down with you. We have 9 town, 3 mafia. A claim will probably end in your death and the death of a town member. so 8 town and 2 mafia left. Scum need a better K-D ratio than that. They will lose at that rate.
Now, if I am way off base with that tell me. Also, vets, what are some games that I can go to as a reference for fakeclaims that are either well executed or poorly done?
In that case, no. I do not agree with that line of reasoning.
I do not think fake claiming will help the mafia. In a game where scum control the PRs (or at least how many PRs that exist) every claim should be met with a certain level of scrutiny. Why put yourself through that? You are setting yourself up to be lynched. You will probably only be able to take a single town member down with you. We have 9 town, 3 mafia. A claim will probably end in your death and the death of a town member. so 8 town and 2 mafia left. Scum need a better K-D ratio than that. They will lose at that rate.
Now, if I am way off base with that tell me. Also, vets, what are some games that I can go to as a reference for fakeclaims that are either well executed or poorly done?
I am probably missing something, but how does 5 town, 3 scum endgame town? Town can lynch the scum, making it 5/2, lose one more at night (4/2) and keep lynching scum for a win.In that case, no. I do not agree with that line of reasoning.
I do not think fake claiming will help the mafia. In a game where scum control the PRs (or at least how many PRs that exist) every claim should be met with a certain level of scrutiny. Why put yourself through that? You are setting yourself up to be lynched. You will probably only be able to take a single town member down with you. We have 9 town, 3 mafia. A claim will probably end in your death and the death of a town member. so 8 town and 2 mafia left. Scum need a better K-D ratio than that. They will lose at that rate.
Now, if I am way off base with that tell me. Also, vets, what are some games that I can go to as a reference for fakeclaims that are either well executed or poorly done?
Well obviously scum's not going to fake claim now, that would be pretty terrible for them. But imagine we mislynch today, and scum kills tonight. Now it's 10 players on D2, 7 town and 3 scum. If mafia does a one-for-one claim/trade where the town is mislynched first, they win the game. Because the mislynch will make it 6 town, 3 scum and the nightkill wins the game, town never gets a chance to kill the confirmed scum.
And this doesn't get into the fact that a fake claim may not be caught by a counter-claim. Or that we might have a way to stop a kill, or kill mafia at night.
But the point is fake claiming could be amazing for mafia.
vote: Teproc
Reread his posts, they all game me a very scummy vibe.
The way he is pushing Robz lynch is scummy to me, he seems to be going at it as scum trying to push a lynch. Rather than town looking for scum.
In that case, no. I do not agree with that line of reasoning.
I do not think fake claiming will help the mafia. In a game where scum control the PRs (or at least how many PRs that exist) every claim should be met with a certain level of scrutiny. Why put yourself through that? You are setting yourself up to be lynched. You will probably only be able to take a single town member down with you. We have 9 town, 3 mafia. A claim will probably end in your death and the death of a town member. so 8 town and 2 mafia left. Scum need a better K-D ratio than that. They will lose at that rate.
Now, if I am way off base with that tell me. Also, vets, what are some games that I can go to as a reference for fakeclaims that are either well executed or poorly done?
I am probably missing something, but how does 5 town, 3 scum endgame town? Town can lynch the scum, making it 5/2, lose one more at night (4/2) and keep lynching scum for a win.
one more thing about fakeclaiming:
If scum want to fakeclaim, they want as few real town PRs to exist as possible, but make us think that a lot of them exist. More actual town PRs=More chance of a real claim on top of the fake claim. So if you are thinking that scum have an eventual fakeclaim strategy, you should bring into question those people who thought scum should not take any PRs.
one more thing about fakeclaiming:
If scum want to fakeclaim, they want as few real town PRs to exist as possible, but make us think that a lot of them exist. More actual town PRs=More chance of a real claim on top of the fake claim. So if you are thinking that scum have an eventual fakeclaim strategy, you should bring into question those people who thought scum should not take any PRs.
one more thing about fakeclaiming:
If scum want to fakeclaim, they want as few real town PRs to exist as possible, but make us think that a lot of them exist. More actual town PRs=More chance of a real claim on top of the fake claim. So if you are thinking that scum have an eventual fakeclaim strategy, you should bring into question those people who thought scum should not take any PRs.
I think you've got that reversed, and that's why faust FoSed people who suggested that mafia took 3 power roles.
I might be misunderstanding : you're saying that if scum wanted to fakeclaim, they would have gone for 0 powers so that they've got a lesser chance to be counterclaimed right ? But they want us to believe there are a lot of PRs so that their claims might be credible.
e, theory discussion aside, what are your reads so far?I lean town on Robz and Ashersky.
Voltaire voted for me. I believe this is the first game we have played together Voltaire? Mmm. Good choice. Would you care for an apple?
Voltaire voted for me. I believe this is the first game we have played together Voltaire? Mmm. Good choice. Would you care for an apple?
I'm not sure about that - we may have been in an RMM game a very long time ago. What kind of apple is it?
Walrus's most recent post reads pretty town (unlike when Robz said pretty much the same thing), because Walrus actually put actions behind his words. I know this gets under Robz's skin but it's true in my opinion.
ashersky has been far, far more in the background that I would expect. He hasn't really even replied to faust's plan, which he claims would be his plan. vote: ashersky
I think my initial thing with Jimm is still the most indicting thing that has happened yet. And I feel like he has been hiding since so it gets forgotten. Vote: Jimm
I agree with Voltaire and mcmcsalot that ashersky feels a little off to me, but I am confident-ish in my ash reads and would prefer to give that more time.
I agree with Voltaire and mcmcsalot that ashersky feels a little off to me, but I am confident-ish in my ash reads and would prefer to give that more time.
Ash does feel a little off to me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. Can anyone explain why?
I have some research(mafia related) to do when I get back from class and will post thoughts about it.
Why the morgrim vote Voltaire?
I agree with Voltaire and mcmcsalot that ashersky feels a little off to me, but I am confident-ish in my ash reads and would prefer to give that more time.
Ash does feel a little off to me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. Can anyone explain why?
But e seems scummish. I know I said I was going to wait until the end of Toy Story. But that could be ages from now. Despite being relatively active, he has done very little besides comment on the setup and now this claiming idea. A great way to generate presence without actually making any implicating statements on record. He was just called out on it now and had a couple vague things to say.
I'll vote: 1 + 1 + 1/2 + 1/6 + 1/24 + 1/120...
I agree with Voltaire and mcmcsalot that ashersky feels a little off to me, but I am confident-ish in my ash reads and would prefer to give that more time.
Ash does feel a little off to me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. Can anyone explain why?
I think it was mcmc who put it best. I'm used to ash with a brash plan. Instead he said the IC's plan was his (or close enough to it) and I can't remember anything he's done since then.
Yeah, I've never seen ash with a small presence like this d1, scum or town. I've never seen someone beat him to explaining a plan though. So I guess it's a nullread.
Yeah, I've never seen ash with a small presence like this d1, scum or town. I've never seen someone beat him to explaining a plan though. So I guess it's a nullread.
Then it must be on purpose.
Yeah, I've never seen ash with a small presence like this d1, scum or town. I've never seen someone beat him to explaining a plan though. So I guess it's a nullread.
Then it must be on purpose.
That's a little cryptic. Do you think ash, as scum, would purposefully be less active ?
I don't think mcmc is particularly active (he's pretty low on the post count actually). Is he usually super-lurking ?
And you haven't really answered to my main concern : if your plan was to question everyone about what they would have done as mafia, what do you think of the answers that have been given ? Do you agree with faust's interpretation ?
I do this a lot, and truly believe it is an aid in scum hunting. Make everyone put things down on the record, even if it seems harmless or useless at the time. Putting opinions down in the open is always hard for scum because it might end up catching them later. Whether it's a refusal to answer, an answer that's way off, or an answer that was exactly in the middle but provided after everyone else, we can find out things about other players.
And mcmc is scum. Dude is only active when he's scum, and here he has actually posted and voted. Scum. Write it down.
And mcmc is scum. Dude is only active when he's scum, and here he has actually posted and voted. Scum. Write it down.
This also occurred to me, and it's true. But, I think my brother just might have more time on his hands since it's Thanksgiving break.
As for being les domineering (which I think is different than less active), I have been thinking of being more considerate of others (except jimmmmm), but I can turn up the asshole dial if you want.
As for being les domineering (which I think is different than less active), I have been thinking of being more considerate of others (except jimmmmm), but I can turn up the asshole dial if you want.
What do you mean by this?
I agree with Voltaire and mcmcsalot that ashersky feels a little off to me, but I am confident-ish in my ash reads and would prefer to give that more time.
Ash does feel a little off to me, but I can't quite put my finger on why. Can anyone explain why?
I think it was mcmc who put it best. I'm used to ash with a brash plan. Instead he said the IC's plan was his (or close enough to it) and I can't remember anything he's done since then.
Fake claiming. Huh. Well, every time a scum claims town its a fakeclaim, correct? And were all town, right? Good.
| Player Voltaire Walrus Robz Jimmmm ashersky faust Jorbles manda Teproc morgrim e mcmcsalot | D1 Post Count 38 5 26 22 31 31 13 11 19 6 13 11 | Pre-Game Post count 3 3 8 10 13 2 3 6 3 3 1 2 |
I'm heading out soon for my Thanksgiving V/LA, so I'll leave everyone with an exciting sneak preview of the Voltaire Lynch Pool!
Post count (no pre-game):
37Voltaire
31faust
30 ashersky
26 Robz
21 Jimmmmm
16 Teproc
13 2.7...
11 Jorbles
11manda
9 mcmc
5 Walrus
1Morgim
I fell pretty good about this. No faust because he's IC, no me because duh. Manda gets a newbie pass whether she wants it or not. Morgrim...well, I wasn't around the one time (right, one time?) this community saw scum!Morgrim but I can't see him being anything other than "easy mislynch" unless he's changed his meta. Which he may have judging by his one post? Anyway.
I gotta say I missed Morgrim's style of play. It's just so different from everyone else's. I have no read on him right now, but I'm glad he's around. Teproc's reaction to it reads a little frustrated and a little towny to me, though.
Hey guys way too drunk to post a proper sldaily post. So sorry. I will post toloreow morning is I have the time. Good night I love you all
Hey guys way too drunk to post a proper sldaily post. So sorry. I will post toloreow morning is I have the time. Good night I love you all
Such a missed opportunity Walrus, when you're super drunk is the best time to put up a daily post!
mcmc- I don't like so many serious votes so early in the day. I have never played with mcmc before, so maybe that is just his style, but it rubs me the wrong way.
The entire tone of just about all of mcmc's posts just scream scummy to me. Reminds me of DS9 mcmc.
Vote: mcmcsalot
OMGUS votes look more scummy than sharing thoughts and maybe catching some heat for themmcmc- I don't like so many serious votes so early in the day. I have never played with mcmc before, so maybe that is just his style, but it rubs me the wrong way.
vote: 2.71828 absolutely ridiculous. People seem to think talking about theory and random voting should last the entirety of day 1. It rubs you the wrong way that I am seriously scum hunting??? Must be because your scum.
The entire tone of just about all of mcmc's posts just scream scummy to me. Reminds me of DS9 mcmc.
Vote: mcmcsalot
Only thing I can say to this(because I see what your getting at) remember ds9 was multiball, and I was sincerely scum-hunting that whole game. I was truly convicted liopoil was scum, he wasn't and it ruined me(as well as poor interaction with galz/robz) but I was scumhunting.
I like the idea of a D2 plan from ash since his D1 plan was hijacked by the IC. I haven't seen anything especially scummy from him so I like the idea of a D1 pass here.I do this a lot, and truly believe it is an aid in scum hunting. Make everyone put things down on the record, even if it seems harmless or useless at the time. Putting opinions down in the open is always hard for scum because it might end up catching them later. Whether it's a refusal to answer, an answer that's way off, or an answer that was exactly in the middle but provided after everyone else, we can find out things about other players.
Ash with a subtle plan for D2 or later? Insanity. But I can buy it.
No need to "turn up the asshole dial". Thanks (I guess) for being where you are right now. Not sure I buy your insistence on mcmc but I'll look at him in other games.
e, you're giving out lots of "D1 passes" early in the Day. Are you serious that you will not vote for Robz and ashersky?D1 pass might be a little strong, but it will take some convincing before I vote them.
but also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.I am good with that soft deadline. We have our work cut out for us Monday and Tuesday though since we have had (and will have through the weekend) so much v/la.
but also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Jorbles explain why you think me Jimm and e are scummy please. You mentioned why you found e scummy but not really me and Jimm. I think you just picked the people who were currently talking said they were all scummy and then explain/voted for 1. To me that reads like a scum player possibly casting mass suspicion and only backing up what he needs to(explain his vote)
yeah, they are going hot. If you want one speak now. Limited supplybut also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Wait what? 3 day 1 passes already?
but also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Also at 2.7I am fine with meta discussion and your votes would be a part of that. Which is why in my post I hedged it a bit because I don't know your meta, as I said. I would hope that a vet would be able to weigh in on the matter and help me out. I didn't vote for you or anything, just said it rubs me wrong. If that is a null tail due to your meta, ok. Null read
You don't like meta discussion, as well as you don't like my serious votes? What do you suggest we talk about?
yeah, they are going hot. If you want one speak now. Limited supplybut also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Wait what? 3 day 1 passes already?
D2 pass for robzyeah, they are going hot. If you want one speak now. Limited supplybut also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Wait what? 3 day 1 passes already?
I want more than 1.
mcmc- I don't like so many serious votes so early in the day. I have never played with mcmc before, so maybe that is just his style, but it rubs me the wrong way.
vote: 2.71828 absolutely ridiculous. People seem to think talking about theory and random voting should last the entirety of day 1. It rubs you the wrong way that I am seriously scum hunting??? Must be because your scum.
D2 pass for robzyeah, they are going hot. If you want one speak now. Limited supplybut also giving people d1 passes so he has an excuse to not vote for them if they look like a good lynchAnd this is why I completely agree with manda when talking about D1 passes for newbies. They shouldn't exist. If someone is scummy, vote for them. I also sympathize with manda in regards to meta discussion. It is really hard for new players to learn anything from that discussion. I disagree with the conclusion that it is altogether pointless because I do see some good benefit in meta discussion. It is just hard for new players to get reads from metas. In fact, I like a lot of what manda has said. D1 pass for manda.
Wait what? 3 day 1 passes already?
I want more than 1.
I agree with Robz that a vig shouldn't shoot D1.
Well, e, as I see it, you already reduced your lynch pool to 7 people. (3 D1 passes, you and me taken out) So which of those 7 DO you actually want to lynch?I was working on that before I got distracted a bit. I will get back to my reads now. 5 down, 6 to go. (Skipping you and me)
explain pleaseI agree with Robz that a vig shouldn't shoot D1.
That should read N1.
explain pleaseI agree with Robz that a vig shouldn't shoot D1.
That should read N1.
explain pleaseI agree with Robz that a vig shouldn't shoot D1.
That should read N1.
Two night deaths will make it obvious that we have a vig. And like already discussed, I don't wan't our PRs outed early. Plus, the chances of hitting scum are low.
The ultimate decision is in the hands of the vig, of course. If they have a super-strong scum read on someone, maybe they should shoot.
Walrus- another victim of v/la. He did have a nice summary reads post though the other day. Too bad he didn't post more last night. Reads from people drunk-posting are the best reads ever. Null read.
PPE: another walrus useful post. Still null
Walrus- another victim of v/la. He did have a nice summary reads post though the other day. Too bad he didn't post more last night. Reads from people drunk-posting are the best reads ever. Null read.
PPE: another walrus useful post. Still null
Summaries are scummaries.
Walrus- another victim of v/la. He did have a nice summary reads post though the other day. Too bad he didn't post more last night. Reads from people drunk-posting are the best reads ever. Null read.
PPE: another walrus useful post. Still null
Summaries are scummaries.
Agreed yet another reason 2.7 is scum.
well it is scummier to stop halfway through my scummaries than finish them off. 4 to go.Walrus- another victim of v/la. He did have a nice summary reads post though the other day. Too bad he didn't post more last night. Reads from people drunk-posting are the best reads ever. Null read.
PPE: another walrus useful post. Still null
Summaries are scummaries.
Agreed yet another reason 2.7 is scum.
Summaries are scummaries.
I don't really have great posting abilities right now but I will work on getting some reads out there. On my kindle so I won't be able to reference like I enjoy doing, and I will also have to post more slowly. So here are some reads. One at a time.I usually post my summaries in one post (see toy story) but it is hard on my kindle without a keyboard and multiple tabs open to easily reference. So yeah, it does pump up my post count, but D1 post counts are sketchy today because of thanksgiving, so I for one will not give much weight to post count for my D1 vote
Jimmmm: a rvs vote on robz then he feels the need to explain his unvote? Makes me think his first vote wasn't really rvs. Gives me a little scum feel on him. His other interactions haven't done anything to change that.
Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal
I think someone noted this, but the "x is scummy dude" statement followed by doing x even more, but in a jokey way, is a classic scum way of covering for a mistake.
See 2.7s day passes for an example.
This strikes me as...absolutely ridiculous. That's a fallacy, by the way. Called Ad Populum, am I right? Also, Who is this someone? I would like to meet him one day. Sounds like an interesting person.mcmc- I don't like so many serious votes so early in the day. I have never played with mcmc before, so maybe that is just his style, but it rubs me the wrong way.
vote: 2.71828 absolutely ridiculous. People seem to think talking about theory and random voting should last the entirety of day 1. It rubs you the wrong way that I am seriously scum hunting??? Must be because your scum.
As for the vigilante idea, don't shoot. You could end up hitting one of us, or maybe your gun will jam and while you're fixing it a big cardboard box might fall on top of you and Amazon will pick it off and ship you to themselves and then flush you down the biggest toilet in the world which happens to have been moved to Greenland and while your still fixing your gun the box will hit an iceberg and not only will you die but the box will as well.this seems very similar to this situation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cx7jzq2Bx4&sns=em). Town is the plant at the end.
As for the vigilante idea, don't shoot. You could end up hitting one of us, or maybe your gun will jam and while you're fixing it a big cardboard box might fall on top of you and Amazon will pick it off and ship you to themselves and then flush you down the biggest toilet in the world which happens to have been moved to Greenland and while your still fixing your gun the box will hit an iceberg and not only will you die but the box will as well.this seems very similar to this situation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cx7jzq2Bx4&sns=em). Town is the plant at the end.
Mmm. Not quite. The only thing that is similar is the box. Good try though.the box and destruction at the end. An apple would be nice. Fuji is the best for eating, but in light of thanksgiving, I might want some granny smith to make an apple pie with.
Hey, I never asked you. Would you like an apple?
So...back to really playing?
I'm laughing and all, but this is really distracting from the scum hunting. Unless that's your point?
So...back to really playing?Are you suggesting that me and 2.7 are scum? If we were, don't you think that we would be smart enough not to do something you would immediately suspect us for, like talking about every day things during a mafia game?
I'm laughing and all, but this is really distracting from the scum hunting. Unless that's your point?
So...back to really playing?Are you suggesting that me and 2.7 are scum? If we were, don't you think that we would be smart enough not to do something you would immediately suspect us for, like talking about every day things during a mafia game?
I'm laughing and all, but this is really distracting from the scum hunting. Unless that's your point?
And my point wasn't to make you laugh, it was to have a conversation. If I made you laugh, I'm sorry.
Not that I think you're scum, of course.
My count was off. Only teproc remains.
Teproc- he has asked a bunch of questions, and hasn't answered too many himself. Town PR trying to get a feel for town, or scum? I don't see anything wrong with questions, lean towny. But he did have a scummary post, so definitely scum.
I don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.
But you said we are under the assumption that scum have daychat. Yet you contradict yourself here. If I were scum, I would have no need to send subliminal messages that I think teproc has some sort of town PR. #discredittheICI don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.
But it's scummy to say that. Like, it's the thing a traitor would want to say. Giving your fellow scum hints at who you think the town PRs are.
Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?
Ok, to answer I will review your posts:Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal
I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?
Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?Good point, rocky.
But you said we are under the assumption that scum have daychat. Yet you contradict yourself here. If I were scum, I would have no need to send subliminal messages that I think teproc has some sort of town PR. #discredittheICI don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.
But it's scummy to say that. Like, it's the thing a traitor would want to say. Giving your fellow scum hints at who you think the town PRs are.
also, it was never said explicitly by a mod so
Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?
You are correct. I misread the bit about being a traitor as opposed to being a normal member of the mafia.But you said we are under the assumption that scum have daychat. Yet you contradict yourself here. If I were scum, I would have no need to send subliminal messages that I think teproc has some sort of town PR. #discredittheICI don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.
But it's scummy to say that. Like, it's the thing a traitor would want to say. Giving your fellow scum hints at who you think the town PRs are.
also, it was never said explicitly by a mod so
Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?
Not true in the situation that faust is describing where you are a traitor. If the traitor was not recruited they do not have daychat with their buddies, and would try to bread crumb info to them.
Ok, to answer I will review your posts:Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal
I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?
162 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318022#msg318022)- saying you will catch up
217 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318305#msg318305)- Briefly answer with your choices of mafia PR with no additional discussion
220 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318309#msg318309)- Post little suspicions about Robz
221 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318309#msg318309)- Correct a post by Teproc
223 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318312#msg318312)- Upon catching up (I presume) you vote Robz without further explanation
260 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318442#msg318442)- Expresses support of Faust's plan
262 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318445#msg318445)- slightly more elaboration on support of the plan
281 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318699#msg318699)- asks for Morgrim prod
313 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318862#msg318862)- Supports Teproc, says no to mass claiming while trying to push us in the direction of scum-hunting.
342 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319244#msg319244)- Expresses doubt over Ash
347 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319266#msg319266)- Ends null read on Ash
362 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319369#msg319369)- A "nod, I am listening to what you are about to say Morgrim" post.
370 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319393#msg319393)- comes null on morgrim, towny on faust
379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319574#msg319574)- tells walrus he missed a great opportunity to drunk post
Those were all the posts I used for my read, but Jorbles did have a read here at 392 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319642#msg319642) before I actually posted that said the e/mcmc/jimmmm interaction was scummy and that I was the scummiest. And then defends saying the 3 of us are scummy here at 400 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319652#msg319652).
Ok. So what does this say? First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for. But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?
1) The Robz vote. You don't go into much at all about why you vote here. It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit. I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote. See my last post for vote categories. Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4. Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum." And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz.
2) support Faust. Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash. Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest. Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.
The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content." While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument. Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself. You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much. So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC. So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)
1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
Just started re-reading e, and came across this.1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.
Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.
I would also like clarification about the scummaries quip Robz. Are you calling me scummy, or e, or both? Or was it just sort of an off-handed aphorism?
Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?
Just started re-reading e, and came across this.1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.
Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.
Just started re-reading e, and came across this.1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.
Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.
Hmm, for some reason this post reads a lot to me like what Jimm covering for his scum partner 2.7 or at least it could be, so if one is scum I think the other is more likely scum. That being said it doesn't currently reveal anything.
Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?
Actually Teproc, what are your reads? You're voting Robz, but have recently expressed suspicion towards e and mcmc. Is Robz still the scummiest? Why?
Just started re-reading e, and came across this.1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK. yes please.
Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.
Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.
Hmm, for some reason this post reads a lot to me like what Jimm covering for his scum partner 2.7 or at least it could be, so if one is scum I think the other is more likely scum. That being said it doesn't currently reveal anything.
So you disagree with my conclusion?
I was hoping that more people would share their thoughts on this, but no one seems to be around. . And then people get distracted by my comment concerning the joat PR. (I won't say much here: the statement is what it is, believe what you will. Anything I add on the subject is WIFOM.) Morgrim finds both jorbles and mcmc little scummy for their reactions, but didn't go into any specifics. Manda posts, but only really only comments on D1 passes.Ok. So what does this say? First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for. But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?
1) The Robz vote. You don't go into much at all about why you vote here. It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit. I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote. See my last post for vote categories. Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4. Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum." And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz.
2) support Faust. Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash. Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest. Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.
The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content." While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument. Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself. You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much. So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC. So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)
I'm not really sure how to respond to this. You acknowledge that you were wrong about me not providing content, but you just don't like the content I'm providing because it's not "original" enough for you. I guess I can live with that since I am of the opinion that you're probably scum. It kinda looks to me like you set yourself up to go after me thinking my posts were devoid of any content, but didn't find what you expected when you went to actually build a case. Maybe I'm OMGUSing a bit here. I'll let other people judge for themselves.
Wow, I didn't realise I was considered one of the more active players in this game.yeah.it has been super slow.
There's a bit more to the case on Jimm. I've noticed him trying to "keep the circle wide" as I am calling it now, something I think scum does. Scum, I've realized, really wants to keep as many suspects on the table as possible. This is why--maybe--Jimm jumped at my self-declared IC status to try and refute it (when it really wasn't necessary to refute, I mean obviously I was not and am not IC). He's done this one other time recently that I supposed I should try to dig up to prove my case.
So I can certainly see the scum angle. I did think it was interesting that Robz brought up Jimmmmm's activity, considering that his posts are pretty front-loaded to the first half of the game so far. I haven't felt that he has been nearly so active in the past couple days as he was earlier, and I don't think it's a great idea to put so much stock right now in posting frequency, considering it's been a crazy week for a lot of us. So IDK, maybe that means Robz feels scummy, maybe it just feels like Robz vs. Ji5m is just town vs. town...h5m.
PPE: Robz backs off a little. Interesting.
So I can certainly see the scum angle. I did think it was interesting that Robz brought up Jimmmmm's activity, considering that his posts are pretty front-loaded to the first half of the game so far. I haven't felt that he has been nearly so active in the past couple days as he was earlier, and I don't think it's a great idea to put so much stock right now in posting frequency, considering it's been a crazy week for a lot of us. So IDK, maybe that means Robz feels scummy, maybe it just feels like Robz vs. Ji5m is just town vs. town...h5m.
PPE: Robz backs off a little. Interesting.
I don't think level of activity is a scum indicator for me though the way it is for mcmc and might be for Jimm.
Your mod is back, thanks to TA for filling in!
Your mod is back, thanks to TA for filling in!
Can we get a vote count?
Well this is fun. The first wagon I have ever had against me. L-2Actually, Its more like L-2.71828...
Well this is fun. The first wagon I have ever had against me. L-2ok. Either I have done a spectacular job convincing town that I am scum, or there is scum voting for me right now. I really don't like ashersky's pre-reread vote. Like that seems super scummy. Although all my jokes are after he went v/la, so I guess that is a fine knee-jerk reaction. My only concern is that I am certain someone voting for me right now is scum. They sense blood, and see an easy mislynch. I hope I don't make it too easy.
(brief) summary of my summaries:
Jimmmmm (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319616#msg319616)- a slight scum read
mcmc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319618#msg319618)- an uneasy feeling at the time of my post, made more scummy by the interactions after my post
robz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319624#msg319624)- My first controversial "day pass." His behavior could be town or scum, but I think it will be easier to find one of the two other scum than decipher whether the behavior is actually town or actually scum.
Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319636#msg319636)- My second controversial "day pass." Basically the same reason as Robz.
manda (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319670#msg319670)- New player I guess? My first time playing with manda. (as well as firsts mcmc, morgrim, teproc, jorbles, and walrus) I have found manda's posts to have decent content, and I lean town here.
Morgrim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319670#msg319670)- Need more content. Nothing so far. Other than a good laugh. His brother is scummy for taking all the apples I would have had.
Walrus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319672#msg319672)- Has been unable to post much, but from what he has I would say null to town.
Jorbles (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319682#msg319682)- I read as slightly scummy for what he had posted so far, but with an open mind because of Thanksgiving and the fact that I haven't played with him before. More comments to follow-up on his reply later. Not appropriate for this post.
Voltaire (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319691#msg319691)- I saved my tough reads for last. I really don't know right now.
Teproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319692#msg319692)- Lean Towny.
Now Faust asked me who I actually want to lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319660#msg319660), so I better answer that since I did not actually do that. It is difficult, so I will put everyone in tiers.
Would lynch if we needed the vote- Jimmmmmm, mcmc, jorbles
Don't want to lynch but would if we needed the vote- Voltaire, Teproc, Walrus, Morgrim
Don't want to lynch- Robz, Ashersky, manda
Never lynch- Faust, 2.7
I know, that still doesn't answer the question, but it is getting somewhere. I am not ready to actually vote for anyone yet. Votes can be several different things:
1) RVS votes- usually very early in the game just to get things rolling, get some discussion, etc
2) Pressure votes- You specifically want more input from a person and so you vote for them. You hope that at least one or two more people will join you to make it more serious but you do not really want to lynch them yet.
3) Wagon votes- Someone has a few votes on them, and you decide to vote to further whatever cause was created by the first non-RVS vote on that person. So, for example, you may join a Pressure vote wagon (which makes your vote a combo of pressure/wagon) because you think that person really does need to be held accountable for what they said or they need to answer a specific question. Wagon votes can also be used as a disguising technique for scum hoping to get an easy lynch.
4) "I actually think you are scum" votes- You have a read on someone, you say why you have that read on that person, and you vote for them. You think they are scum and you want to eliminate scum. so you vote.
5) "I think it will be easy to lynch you" votes- This category is exclusively for scum. They gameplan who they want to target (a few different people maybe) and get a feel for the day and then slowly build up a wagon on that person. Not all at once (scum are smarter than that), but gradually and consistently to deflect people from thinking that they themselves are scum
There may be more categories, but these will suffice. It is a little too late for me to RVS vote, there is no one I can really see as a pressure vote person, I won't join the wagon on me, and I am not confident enough in my reads to really think that mcmc, jorbles, or jimmmmmm are actually scum. And I am not scum so category 5 does not apply to me. So I will withhold my vote until such a time as I deem appropriate.
Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.
This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.
Vote: Jorbles
PPE ash
Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum. (If robz can claim meta modification, I should be able to claim meta creation.) Well, actually to say "scummy as town" might be a stretch. Let's go with "jokes about things at times when it makes people think you might be scummy"
Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum.
Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?
calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a jokeHmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?
Does that count as discussing an on going game? If so I am sorry.calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a jokeHmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?
I was not being serious.yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum.
I really hope you're not serious, otherwise I'll just go ahead and policy vote you now.
If you are Town, please play for Town's win condition in THIS GAME.
Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.
This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.
Vote: Jorbles
PPE ash
It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.
This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.
Vote: Jorbles
PPE ash
I agree completely. Vote: Jorbles
Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.
Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic at all.
Either I have done a spectacular job convincing town that I am scum, or there is scum voting for me right now.that sentence could very well read: scum are voting for me. So ash, walrus, mcmc, or jorbles. PoE a bit. Not walrus. Maybe, but he started everything and I don't really see him as scum for that or for the other things he has done. Ash? I think he is town who genuinely believed me to be scum. Between mcmc and jorbles mcmc has come out the strongest against me, early and often. Too risky for scum IMO. Jorbles didn't like my overview against him, then argued against my case against him. I hedged that case, which ash doesn't like, but let me unhedge here. Vote: jorbles
Ok, to answer I will review your posts:Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal
I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?
162 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318022#msg318022)- saying you will catch up
217 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318305#msg318305)- Briefly answer with your choices of mafia PR with no additional discussion
220 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318309#msg318309)- Post little suspicions about Robz
221 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318309#msg318309)- Correct a post by Teproc
223 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318312#msg318312)- Upon catching up (I presume) you vote Robz without further explanation
260 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318442#msg318442)- Expresses support of Faust's plan
262 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318445#msg318445)- slightly more elaboration on support of the plan
281 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318699#msg318699)- asks for Morgrim prod
313 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318862#msg318862)- Supports Teproc, says no to mass claiming while trying to push us in the direction of scum-hunting.
342 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319244#msg319244)- Expresses doubt over Ash
347 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319266#msg319266)- Ends null read on Ash
362 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319369#msg319369)- A "nod, I am listening to what you are about to say Morgrim" post.
370 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319393#msg319393)- comes null on morgrim, towny on faust
379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319574#msg319574)- tells walrus he missed a great opportunity to drunk post
Those were all the posts I used for my read, but Jorbles did have a read here at 392 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319642#msg319642) before I actually posted that said the e/mcmc/jimmmm interaction was scummy and that I was the scummiest. And then defends saying the 3 of us are scummy here at 400 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319652#msg319652).
Ok. So what does this say? First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for. But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?
1) The Robz vote. You don't go into much at all about why you vote here. It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit. I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote. See my last post for vote categories. Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4. Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum." And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz.
2) support Faust. Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash. Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest. Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.
The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content." While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument. Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself. You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much. So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC. So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)
calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a jokeHmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.
Disagree. Here are points against 2.7:
1) Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2) In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3) Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4) So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5) Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior. (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6) Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.
Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?
Although really, if mafia didn't choose any PRs town got gyped. IC and bodyguard? Weak.
Barring extraordinary circumstances, you should only claim at L-1 (you are irritatingly early, in other words).given the role of bodyguard though, since nothing is preventing the scum from killing the doctor, which will kill me (I would have protected him no matter what), and given that I already had the ic voting for me, I don't see what additional information we could have gathered from more cases against me. I guess we could have learned from people defending me. The other reason I claimed now is because I don't want a haphazard case thrown together at the last second to get a lynch. By the time everyone would have had their opinions out, we will probably have had about 24 hours to throw together a lynch. Although I think I let myself get distracted by the soft deadline. I see more of why it would be a missplay by me, but it is what it is. We need to focus on scum now. Jorbles, anyone?
Everyone must have a chance to counter claim before we proceed at this point.
Keep in mind that if he were scum, this is a tough fakeclaim, because he has no idea whether there is a real Bodyguard or not (I mean, he knows how many town PRs there are, but not what they are). So the claim is probably true. Still... any counter claims? I am not counter claiming.
I was referring to ash
in referring to making implications that I was totally devoid of jokes in my previous game. I said "calm down there" which I think may have been misinterpreted by jimmmm. Using the phrase in the sense of "slow down with the accusation because you are not quite right"I was referring to ash
Where?
I think e should definitely be taken off the table, at least for now. If he's scum, then at least they'll keep faust alive in order to keep e's cover. If he's Town, then they probably have no way of getting past e's Bodyguard since the we generally believe that scum probably wouldn't have taken JoAT. If faust dies, that probably means e is scum, but may mean they have a JoAT.does joat kill through bodyguard? Because bodyguard doesn't prevent a kill it just deflects it onto yourself. Strongman says that the NK can't be blocked. Deflected seems different to me.
From the JoAT PM: "This kill will unable to be blocked by any method."
I take that to mean that it gets through a Bodyguard.
yuma: If Player 1, a JoAT, performs a Strongman kill on Player 2, and Player 3, a Bodyguard, guards Player 2 on the same Night, is it correct that Player 2 will die and Player 3 will not?
Vote: Jorbles
Just to reiterate, we need every currently living non-e2.7 player to say whether he/she is/isn't the Bodyguard... before we lynch Jorbles.
So Unvote until that happens.
Woah woah woah I missed a big day apparently....
I agree that, after claiming, 2.7 should be taken off the table for now until we have more solid information to analyze than just D1 speculation (I'm not counter-claiming, by the way).
I didn't like the idea of a random-ish Jorbles lynch at first, but the more I think about it the more it seems like, while perhaps not an elegant solution, it's no less of a good idea than anything we can get out of D1 analysis. I think I'm cool with doing that and seeing what comes out of it, so, especially with the soft deadline fast approaching, vote: Jorbles
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
Just to reiterate, we need every currently living non-e2.7 player to say whether he/she is/isn't the Bodyguard... before we lynch Jorbles.
So Unvote until that happens.
Town cred grab? Scum!robz.
Noted for future discussion.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
Agreed.
I had misremembered the timing of your Jorbles vote. I feel like ash's vote feels the scummiest here, working on the hypothesis that Jorbles is a mislynch. He was late on both the e wagon and now this wagon, pushing things along.
I considered manda. And Morgrim. manda is new and I thought might be disproportionately swayed by the importance of the soft deadline. Morgrim just likes to lynch people.
If you don't like my posting style I don't know what to tell you. I'm just doing my thing man.
I was pushing things along. More than you, mr one post a day to lurk my way through the game as scum.
I was pushing things along. More than you, mr one post a day to lurk my way through the game as scum.
You don't consider my initial vote for e to be pushing the game along? I mean I'm not sure that I like that it ended up on an early claim. But I don't think that I'm just in the backseat here.
I considered manda. And Morgrim. manda is new and I thought might be disproportionately swayed by the importance of the soft deadline. Morgrim just likes to lynch people.
If you don't like my posting style I don't know what to tell you. I'm just doing my thing man.
Your thing is perfect scum cover. If we don't eventually lynch you for it, you'll continue to get away with it.
Manda is no newer than you, as discussed previously, no newbie pass.
I agree that it is useless trying to read anything into Morgrim ever.
Your thing was also jokes, but those have lessened this game. Trying to lay low? Under the radar? No longer.
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
I think we should base our scumhunting on what's most likely the case here - that e is town. So let's consider the e wagon at peak.
2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)
When I voted for e, it was partly because I thought he acted scummy, but also partly because I was looking for reactions to a wagon with me on it. And what I take from this is: there are likely multiple scum off the e wagon. What I found odd is that after I voted e, no one jumped the wagon for quite some time, until ashersky's vote.
As scum, I would be wary to vote e as this stage: either he is scum (possibly the Traitor), then scum doesn't want to lynch one of their own D1. Or he's town. Well, every vote after mine would get heat D2 for jumping the easy mislynch once e flipped town. So scum would hold back. And given that there was a lot of holding back going on, there was probably scum among them.
I will do a reread of those off-wagon and post the results soon.
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
Forced?
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
Forced?
Forced.
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
Forced?
Forced.
To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.
I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
Forced?
Forced.
To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.
I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.
The emphasis on "whole time" is interesting here. Perhaps you are the traitor, unable to communicate with your partners? You are stuck acting like town the whole time, even though you aren't?
It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point. Better option than Jorbles. Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.
In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!
Forced?
Forced.
To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.
I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.
The emphasis on "whole time" is interesting here. Perhaps you are the traitor, unable to communicate with your partners? You are stuck acting like town the whole time, even though you aren't?
It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point. Better option than Jorbles. Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.
So you think Walrus is a Traitor? If he is not, do you think he's more likely town or scum?
The smaller thing is that I don't think talking about what mafia PRs we'd pick is very useful.
The bigger thing is wanted to see how other player's would react to the IC's plan, given me coming out strongly against it.
I'm with mcmc on figuring out the mafia PR choice thing.
It's worth looking at again when we have some dead scum and dead PRs, of course, but for now, let's actually scumhunt.
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.
Yeah, that seems like something I might see Robz fake for a bit of town cred. I'm willing to vote Robz (once I catch up).
vote: Teproc
Reread his posts, they all game me a very scummy vibe.
The way he is pushing Robz lynch is scummy to me, he seems to be going at it as scum trying to push a lynch. Rather than town looking for scum.
I don't agree with this. From what I see he doesn't seem particularly scummy to me. Most of what he's said seems pretty rational, but maybe that's just because I found Robz scummy too. (However I do think this is the sort of post we should be moving towards. Mass claim discussions are a waste of time right now. Let's save it for a week or two from now.)
I gotta say I missed Morgrim's style of play. It's just so different from everyone else's. I have no read on him right now, but I'm glad he's around. Teproc's reaction to it reads a little frustrated and a little towny to me, though.
Ugh, scummy vibes from mcmc, Jimmmm and e's interaction.
[...]
Vote: e (2.71etc)
PPE: I agree with faust, clearly.
I'm not really sure how to respond to this. You acknowledge that you were wrong about me not providing content, but you just don't like the content I'm providing because it's not "original" enough for you. I guess I can live with that since I am of the opinion that you're probably scum. It kinda looks to me like you set yourself up to go after me thinking my posts were devoid of any content, but didn't find what you expected when you went to actually build a case. Maybe I'm OMGUSing a bit here. I'll let other people judge for themselves.
I am not the bodyguard.
2.7 makes a reasonably timed claim because of his role, he expecting to die instead of Faust anyway. So claiming with time left to get a lynch in is smart.
However I am expecting scum to now not target Faust leaving 2.7 and Faust alive.
This means Faust could be lying scum or scum is wifoming us. So when thought out the claim is extremely safe for scum to make.
This reads differently from every other time you've done this. You didn't go very far down the "top posters" ladder, like you usually do, and the Morgrim wave off feels like taking an easy road.
As far as Robz goes, he hasn't given me a reason to unvote, and no one else has screamed scum, so my vote stays here. He's been a lot less noticeable lately, which seems to be a great way to get the pressure off him, because people want to move on and scumhunt elsewhere. But I don't think scumhunting necessitates throwing your vote around, so I'm fine with leaving it on Robz so far.
The fact of the matter is, walrus is scummier here than he has been in other, town games. I didn't play GoT, but I followed. Maybe someone who played there can weigh in. But this walrus is not matching my clear vision of town!walrus.
Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
Agreed.
Deadline approaches and we've had little activity up to now due to holiday vla.
The claim was just so wrong for scum, I think. It could be a Brilliant ploy to stay alive, but risky if there is a real bodyguard and not worth much to out him.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.
If you have time to take a look at day 2 in GoT, you'll see that he was doing it even more there (we were both town). I think we genuinely think alike, so the fact that he's buddying me is null imo, because he could replicate that as scum, or just not worry about it as town because of the GoT precedent.
These "plans" to trick people into reacting seem to come from scum more often than for town. It's mostly a good way to frame people and get away with scummy things. Not huge since opposing the plan isn't scummy in and of itself, but it's still a good way to cast suspicion over everyone. Then again, he didn't do that, so maybe that's a wash.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.
Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.
vote: Jorbles. I can get behind the semi-random D1 lurker lynch at deadline. LALL after all.I don't like the little explanation he gives here at all. If you get called out for it as scum, you say you are joking and switch off. I mean, who actually says that they support a semi-random lynch? In fact, Ash then does remove himself from the wagon when it is no longer popular and votes Walrus after attacking him for a brief period of time.
I didn't like the idea of a random-ish Jorbles lynch at first, but the more I think about it the more it seems like, while perhaps not an elegant solution, it's no less of a good idea than anything we can get out of D1 analysis. I think I'm cool with doing that and seeing what comes out of it, so, especially with the soft deadline fast approaching, vote: JorblesOk. Let's lynch this guy really fast before we think about anyone else because we won't learn anything else today. I think manda was a little over-worried about the soft deadline (which is in about 24 hours or so (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319645#msg319645)) and voted for the popular wagon of the time just to help getting a lynch. I don't know just how "new" manda is, but she doesn't want to be treated like a new player and I just can't let a statement like this slide under the radar
This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.
This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.
Though I agree we shouldn't lynch him today, but I don't consider 2.7 to be confirmed town. His claim makes sense from a scum perspective as much as it does from a town one. If you are scum and you think you're going to be lynched you should claim something in this setup. If someone counterclaims at least you've outed a PR and given your team mates setup info. If no one counterclaims you might just be lucky and have picked a role that doesn't exist in the game. It's the smart move for a scum player with a wagon that looks like a lynch forming, and we should consider 2.7 IC because of the claim.
Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
asherskyfaust
JorblesmandaTeprocmorgrim2.7
mcmcsalot
Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.
Those are his D-1 passes. SCUMREAD!!!!! (joking)Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
asherskyfaust
JorblesmandaTeprocmorgrim2.7
mcmcsalot
Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.
Why have you crossed people off?
Those are his D-1 passes. SCUMREAD!!!!! (joking)Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
asherskyfaust
JorblesmandaTeprocmorgrim2.7
mcmcsalot
Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.
Why have you crossed people off?
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
So scummy scum wouldn't do it. Was it you who was saying previously "but how many times does scum actually do this and how many times does town actually do this"? It's one of those.
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
So scummy scum wouldn't do it. Was it you who was saying previously "but how many times does scum actually do this and how many times does town actually do this"? It's one of those.
When did I say that?
For the millionth time, manda is NOT a newbie!!!
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.
Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
So scummy scum wouldn't do it. Was it you who was saying previously "but how many times does scum actually do this and how many times does town actually do this"? It's one of those.
When did I say that?
Then it wasn't you. Someone said that. When you read four days of the thread at once, it really blurs together.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.
Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.
I wouldn't call it decent. It's pretty weak. The case on me is basically that I've been around, but not as much as other people have, and am therefore scum?
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?
Manda's vote on me is scummy I agree, but I tend to think more of ashersky's vote. Manda's vote seems so scummy that it's more likely to be town not thinking what they are doing through very much. Ash's vote looks more like he's looking to justify a way onto the wagon in a less suspicious way.
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
But what do we learn from lynching Morgrim?
Ashersky: Jumping on the Jorbles wagon. I don't think that in itself is scummy, butvote: Jorbles. I can get behind the semi-random D1 lurker lynch at deadline. LALL after all.I don't like the little explanation he gives here at all. If you get called out for it as scum, you say you are joking and switch off. I mean, who actually says that they support a semi-random lynch? In fact, Ash then does remove himself from the wagon when it is no longer popular and votes Walrus after attacking him for a brief period of time.
What's with the interrogative votes, people ? If you're gonna vote someone be serious about it. It's too easy to go "well, I wasn't really sure about voting for him" afterwards with hedgy votes like that. FoS at Jorbles for that, and, well, I'm already voting for Robz.
I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...
THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.
Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.
I wouldn't call it decent. It's pretty weak. The case on me is basically that I've been around, but not as much as other people have, and am therefore scum?
What's with the interrogative votes, people ? If you're gonna vote someone be serious about it. It's too easy to go "well, I wasn't really sure about voting for him" afterwards with hedgy votes like that. FoS at Jorbles for that, and, well, I'm already voting for Robz.
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
But what do we learn from lynching Morgrim?
What's with the interrogative votes, people ? If you're gonna vote someone be serious about it. It's too easy to go "well, I wasn't really sure about voting for him" afterwards with hedgy votes like that. FoS at Jorbles for that, and, well, I'm already voting for Robz.
I don't see any problem with doing things for reactions. We have to scumhunt somehow.
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.Mmm...yeah...no. I think not. This seems like OMGUS? FoS: Robz
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point. Better option than Jorbles. Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.
Day1 will end in 12 days (10+2 for Thanksgiving) on December 4 at 10 pm forum time[/color]
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.Mmm...yeah...no. I think not. This seems like OMGUS? FoS: Robz
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.Mmm...yeah...no. I think not. This seems like OMGUS? FoS: Robz
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
I think this situation looks scummier on Ashersky than it does on Walrus. From the progression of votes to his interaction with Walrus, Ashersky is earning a spot on my "scummy looking" listIt all adds up to vote: walrus at this point. Better option than Jorbles. Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.
I just finished re-reading Walrus and I just do not see a case on him at all, especially not "crumbling under pressure". In GoT we (and I really think it was town, I don't think scum helped out at all) mislynched Walrus for playing like newbie scum and he was town.
I don't actually remember him even being this insane. It seems fake. Well, I know it's fake, because I know he's not actually crazy.
More? Interesting. Veeeery interesting. I think I will do something useful, starting by claiming. I am a tracker. Each night, I choose someone and moddy Yuma tells me who, if anyone, that person targeted.Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
But what do we learn from lynching Morgrim?
Same thing I said about jorbles applies here though. Day one its okay, this isn't crunch time, if morgrim get a pass from posting real helpfull content today, when do we draw the line, will that be too late? So I think people need to participate(even though some people find that scummy...) and interact or else we can't figure out who scum is. vote: morgrim till he does something helpfull.
I think this situation looks scummier on Ashersky than it does on Walrus. From the progression of votes to his interaction with Walrus, Ashersky is earning a spot on my "scummy looking" list
I made my claim when I did because I thought that we would need the time to really put together some good thoughts toward a good lynch. Robz said "irritatingly early"- scum!robz liked the distraction on a mislynch? This is not enough to really accuse Robz for anything, and I agree it is not standard operating procedure to claim when I did, but I did now want to distract people with the wagon on me when we needed to be scumhunting. I felt like because of my role, claiming at that point was fine. (If I had been the vig or something I would definitely not claimed when I did. Only because I was the bodyguard did I make that claim)This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.
Though I agree we shouldn't lynch him today, but I don't consider 2.7 to be confirmed town. His claim makes sense from a scum perspective as much as it does from a town one. If you are scum and you think you're going to be lynched you should claim something in this setup. If someone counterclaims at least you've outed a PR and given your team mates setup info. If no one counterclaims you might just be lucky and have picked a role that doesn't exist in the game. It's the smart move for a scum player with a wagon that looks like a lynch forming, and we should consider 2.7 IC because of the claim.
I agree that e should in no way be treated as confirmed Town. His claim did come at a strange time though, just as the Jorbles wagon was getting some momentum. You would expect scum to at least see the Jorbles wagon out and see what happened with that. But then you'd probably expect Town to do the same.
e, can you please explain the timing of your claim?
I want to give manda a chance to respond to her latest post/vote before I move on (because I do find that scummy). If I am satisfied Ash is my next vote.I think this situation looks scummier on Ashersky than it does on Walrus. From the progression of votes to his interaction with Walrus, Ashersky is earning a spot on my "scummy looking" list
Then vote!
PPE: ???????
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I need help reacting to something.
What's with the interrogative votes, people ? If you're gonna vote someone be serious about it. It's too easy to go "well, I wasn't really sure about voting for him" afterwards with hedgy votes like that. FoS at Jorbles for that, and, well, I'm already voting for Robz.
Walrus claimed he voted for reactions too.
or was that claim not serious? HOW CAN I KNOW?!?!?!?!?You can't be. You'll have to trust me. If you don't wanna do that, well. Vote: Morgrim is always a good solution for that...
The question mark is not to indicate that I am unsure about the lynch. It's to indicate that I'm not sure there's support for the lynch. I was serious about my vote, just unsure if there was support for it.
More? Interesting. Veeeery interesting. I think I will do something useful, starting by claiming. I am a tracker. Each night, I choose someone and moddy Yuma tells me who, if anyone, that person targeted.Maybe we should just lynch Morgrim.
At worst, we lynched Morgrim. No offense, Morgrim.
Vote: Morgrim?
But what do we learn from lynching Morgrim?
Same thing I said about jorbles applies here though. Day one its okay, this isn't crunch time, if morgrim get a pass from posting real helpfull content today, when do we draw the line, will that be too late? So I think people need to participate(even though some people find that scummy...) and interact or else we can't figure out who scum is. vote: morgrim till he does something helpfull.
I can be more helpful, if you want.
Care for an apple?
And gah, you're all all not understanding. I think Robz is scummy cause...what reason does he have to vote for me? It kinda looks like he's just doing it cause there's nobody better. And yeah, that's scummy...
Morgrim. Morgrim. There is no benefit to confusing us! Scum already know whether you are telling the truth or not! You shouldn't have claimed at all, but now that you have, you have to actually claim! Jeez.
Morgrim. Morgrim. There is no benefit to confusing us! Scum already know whether you are telling the truth or not! You shouldn't have claimed at all, but now that you have, you have to actually claim! Jeez.Exactly. Because now that the scum have already figured out whether I'm lying, you have no choice but to trust me unless you want to mislynch me. Someone cop me and I'll prove it to you.
It's a Community quote, and I was referring to Morgrim's claim. It's just so... weird to claim now.Maybe that's why I did it?
If he's Town maybe scum will NK him and on later Days his investigations will either help us catch scum or make it obvious he's scum.That's why I claimed.
Someone cop me and I'll prove it to you.
Someone cop me and I'll prove it to you.
Well, if Morgrim is scum, he's not a Goon.
The question mark is not to indicate that I am unsure about the lynch. It's to indicate that I'm not sure there's support for the lynch. I was serious about my vote, just unsure if there was support for it.
I definitely think there is support for it!
I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
The question mark is not to indicate that I am unsure about the lynch. It's to indicate that I'm not sure there's support for the lynch. I was serious about my vote, just unsure if there was support for it.
I definitely think there is support for it!
I know you are in, but most other people haven't commented too much about whether they'd be willing to vote for ash or not. Or not to my memory anyways.
Again, exactly why I claimed.I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
Again, exactly why I claimed.I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
I don't think Morgrim gets any easier to catch than this. He's not going to flip a sanity switch all of a sudden and play a pro-town game.
Again, exactly why I claimed.I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
I don't think he comes off the table, Jimmmmm.
Really? He's someone who if scum will become easier and easier to catch as time goes on, and if Town will produce actual helpful results and may be NKed.
I don't think Morgrim gets any easier to catch than this. He's not going to flip a sanity switch all of a sudden and play a pro-town game.
I'm not arguing he's playing a pro-Town game. But he has to produce a result every Day now. Say Tomorrow he says you targeted someone you didn't, or didn't target anyone and you did, you know for a fact that he's lying. Can you really say that Town Morgrim would be playing any differently. You know that anti-Town != Mafia.
Or he says he tracked a scumpartner, who lies to cover up for him. In fact, if he's lying scum, that's exactly what he does to get away with this claim. "I tracked my partner, who targeted player B." Partner confirms, now Player B looks like a town PR.
Or he says he tracked a scumpartner, who lies to cover up for him. In fact, if he's lying scum, that's exactly what he does to get away with this claim. "I tracked my partner, who targeted player B." Partner confirms, now Player B looks like a town PR.
But surely this unravels very quickly if we lynch one of them?
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)two pre-claim (robz, mcmc) three after claim (teproc, 2.7, morgrim)
That missed a few PPE, but it's fine for what I was lookign for.
Lurkers: morg, Manda
Acti-lurkers: Walrus, Jorbles, Teproc, mcmc
Contributors: Volt, Robz, Jim, Ash, faust, 2.7
That missed a few PPE, but it's fine for what I was lookign for.
Lurkers: morg, Manda
Acti-lurkers: Walrus, Jorbles, Teproc, mcmc
Contributors: Volt, Robz, Jim, Ash, faust, 2.7
Bleh, since when is acti-lurking bieng in the middle of the post count, acti-lurking is having a decent post count but not actually contributing anything. You think me and teproc aren't contributing?
unvotealthough I will hammer morgrim if we get to L-1 without much traction in another direction. Check it off my bucket list and all.
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
That's correct. This is L-1.
vote: Morgrim7
unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...
That missed a few PPE, but it's fine for what I was lookign for.
Lurkers: morg, Manda
Acti-lurkers: Walrus, Jorbles, Teproc, mcmc
Contributors: Volt, Robz, Jim, Ash, faust, 2.7
Bleh, since when is acti-lurking bieng in the middle of the post count, acti-lurking is having a decent post count but not actually contributing anything. You think me and teproc aren't contributing?
I think you've been swooping in at times, (which I admit can just be IRL) to ensure you add content when needed. That's what I think of as acti-lurking. It isn't necessarily scummy. I did want to see how folks reacted to those labels.
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
That's correct. This is L-1.
vote: Morgrim7
Halt. Cease. Desist.
The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?
I mean I do buy ash's narrative as plausible but 1. it's coming from ash 2. it almost never makes sense to lynch a claimed PR.
unvote cause jimmm said to
They seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...
Why?
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
That's correct. This is L-1.
vote: Morgrim7
Halt. Cease. Desist.
The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
That's correct. This is L-1.
vote: Morgrim7
Halt. Cease. Desist.
The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?
I mean I do buy ash's narrative as plausible but 1. it's coming from ash 2. it almost never makes sense to lynch a claimed PR.
This. Morgrim could be scum, sure. But he could very well be Town, and if so he actually has a way he can definitely help us. Do we really want to lynch a claimed PR on Day 1?
But they know that. They are vets. They know the system. At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-townThey seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...
Why?
This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.
This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.
But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.
mmm...good pointBut they know that. They are vets. They know the system. At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-townThey seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...
Why?
This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.
But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.
This is much crazier if you ask me.
This is far, far beyond the sort of insanity I expected.
But isn't this, like, how he always plays? My first f.ds game ever was subbing in for Morgrim after he claimed VT D1 and asked out.
This is much crazier if you ask me.
Having read most of the games we're talking about here, I definitely agree with this. That's why I was suspicious of him earlier, it seemed like he artificially amped up the craziness.
But they know that. They are vets. They know the system. At best their "helping town" in this situation is WIFOM a bit because your play was so anti-townThey seem to be genuinely striving to help the town.unvote cause jimmm said to
Robz, ash, and rocky are town cause of their reaction, I think...
Why?
Sweet, I'm already a vet ! But I agree, Morgrim having town reads on the people who are voting for him AND Voltaire for an exact opposite reaction to his claim is ludicrous. Well that's not exactly what you're saying I guess, but I do think that.
He's at 5 votes right now I believe (Robz, mcmc, Morgrim, Teproc, 2.7)
That's correct. This is L-1.
vote: Morgrim7
Halt. Cease. Desist.
The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?
I mean I do buy ash's narrative as plausible but 1. it's coming from ash 2. it almost never makes sense to lynch a claimed PR.
This. Morgrim could be scum, sure. But he could very well be Town, and if so he actually has a way he can definitely help us. Do we really want to lynch a claimed PR on Day 1?
When it claims like that yes, why not just massclaim D1 everygame(which may have happend here) it absolutely screws us, I am hoping to god morgrim is scum and not just not taking the game seriously at all.
Sweet, I'm already a vet ! But I agree, Morgrim having town reads on the people who are voting for him AND Voltaire for an exact opposite reaction to his claim is ludicrous. Well that's not exactly what you're saying I guess, but I do think that.
Ludicrous yes, but how is it scummy?
Well, I have to head out now. I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything. Let's at least wait until manda has said something. Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:
Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.
I hope it is B. I want it to be B. I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts. I actually think this is A. Morgrim fakeclaiming as town. It makes no sense. It is bizarre. It doesn't help at all. I mean, it could be C but I just don't know. I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.
Well, I have to head out now. I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything. Let's at least wait until manda has said something. Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:
Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.
I hope it is B. I want it to be B. I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts. I actually think this is A. Morgrim fakeclaiming as town. It makes no sense. It is bizarre. It doesn't help at all. I mean, it could be C but I just don't know. I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.
Lying as town is so very, very bad. So I refuse to consider "A" an option, because if it is, it's just as bad as B.
So I think B or C, in that order. I'd flip Jimmmmm, saying maybe 60-40 scum.
Well, I have to head out now. I hope that I don't come back to a lynch or anything. Let's at least wait until manda has said something. Also, due to my claim and [most] people thinking it is real, I appoint myself unofficial IC and ask everyone a question:
Do you think Morgrim is:
A) Fakeclaiming as town.
B) Fakeclaiming as scum.
C) Actually the tracker.
I hope it is B. I want it to be B. I am not familiar with Morgrim from previous games, but as everyone seems to say he is pretty crazy, but this is off the charts. I actually think this is A. Morgrim fakeclaiming as town. It makes no sense. It is bizarre. It doesn't help at all. I mean, it could be C but I just don't know. I am actually fine with lynching Morgrim in any of the situations, I just want you all to say what you think.
Are we all going to feel dumb if Morgrim flips Tracker?
If you think it's A, why did you vote for him ?while driving home I cooled of a bit and realized that my vote was mostly a rage vote. Then I thought to myself, I don't like rage votes they are bad for town. And then I realized that morgrim could very well be the tracker. (Hasn't considered jorbles thoughts on B, which I will comment on soon) I should not rage vote. Even if it turns out that morgrim is a VT, we should not lynch him because that hurts town. So upon getting home I was willing to recant my vote on morgrim and get back to more [hopefully] level-headed play.
I don't think it's A. Even Morgrim isn't that crazy. Which is why I think B is the most likely, although it could be C. I'm not fine with lynching him if it's C (even if he's the least helpful Tracker ever, he would still be town), but there's obviously no way to know.
Are we all going to feel dumb if Morgrim flips Tracker?
We will know we were living in a universe where our Tracker was never going to help us.
Are we all going to feel dumb if Morgrim flips Tracker?
We will know we were living in a universe where our Tracker was never going to help us.
As a reminder, I am starting in on my on-week at work meaning that I won't be around as much to provide vote counts/flips for the next week. Both Twistedarcher and I will do vote counts when we are available but they may be more sporadic than you have been used to thus far. I strongly encourage individually and collectively monitoring the votes during the hours that we are less available. Only counts from Twistedarcher or myself are considered official counts.
As a reminder, I am starting in on my on-week at work meaning that I won't be around as much to provide vote counts/flips for the next week. Both Twistedarcher and I will do vote counts when we are available but they may be more sporadic than you have been used to thus far. I strongly encourage individually and collectively monitoring the votes during the hours that we are less available. Only counts from Twistedarcher or myself are considered official counts.
Jimmmmm, time to vote Morgrim.
And manda. Everyone is forgetting manda.
Someone cop me and I'll prove it to you.
Well, if Morgrim is scum, he's not a Goon.
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I knew there was a soft deadline someone set, but I'm not subscribing to it. Let's use the time we have!
Popsquiz time. I'd ask that everyone do it, given the deadline time constraints:
Lynch! Walrus, Morgrim
Would lynch: manda, mcmc, Jorbles
Won't lynch: Robz, 2.7, Jimmmm, Voltaire, Teproc, faust
New idea.Problem not solved.
Morgrim, if you are the Tracker, target 2.7 tonight. 2.7, target someone. Tomorrow, we can verify if Morgrim really is the Tracker. Problem solved.
So everyone, we are not lynching Morgrim today!
Also Morgrim, if you do not listen to this, prepare to be lynched tomorrow.
New idea.Also, are you telling me not to target you? I mean, I would love to live another day, but I will always be questionable town whereas you are confirmed town.
Morgrim, if you are the Tracker, target 2.7 tonight. 2.7, target someone. Tomorrow, we can verify if Morgrim really is the Tracker. Problem solved.
So everyone, we are not lynching Morgrim today!
Also Morgrim, if you do not listen to this, prepare to be lynched tomorrow.
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:The IC does not need to be around for the deadline. He just needs to make his thoughts clear. I do think we can throw out the soft deadline though. There has been too much discussion to really come to a good conclusion by then. I mean, the actual deadline is December 4 at 10 pm forum time. That means we have 36 hours to get a lynch together. If you are taking Morgrim off the table, we will need all the time we can get.Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I knew there was a soft deadline someone set, but I'm not subscribing to it. Let's use the time we have!
I take it you don't care whether the IC is around for the deadline?
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:The IC does not need to be around for the deadline. He just needs to make his thoughts clear. I do think we can throw out the soft deadline though. There has been too much discussion to really come to a good conclusion by then. I mean, the actual deadline is December 4 at 10 pm forum time. That means we have 36 hours to get a lynch together. If you are taking Morgrim off the table, we will need all the time we can get.Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I knew there was a soft deadline someone set, but I'm not subscribing to it. Let's use the time we have!
I take it you don't care whether the IC is around for the deadline?
New idea.
Morgrim, if you are the Tracker, target 2.7 tonight. 2.7, target someone. Tomorrow, we can verify if Morgrim really is the Tracker. Problem solved.
So everyone, we are not lynching Morgrim today!
Also Morgrim, if you do not listen to this, prepare to be lynched tomorrow.
Likely, if Morgrim is telling the truth, all our PRs are outed (we might have one more).
I'm thinking about a nice plan where I have them name sets of three people which include the target or something... I believe we can work something out that actually works. And anyway, the most likely cases are e is town, Morgrim is scum, or both are town. So it will pretty much have to be Morgrim who speaks first.
I'm thinking about a nice plan where I have them name sets of three people which include the target or something... I believe we can work something out that actually works. And anyway, the most likely cases are e is town, Morgrim is scum, or both are town. So it will pretty much have to be Morgrim who speaks first.
What if scum just kill whichever one isn't scum (probably e)? Then Morgrim comes in and says e targeted soinso, and e can't verify because he's dead.
I'm thinking about a nice plan where I have them name sets of three people which include the target or something... I believe we can work something out that actually works. And anyway, the most likely cases are e is town, Morgrim is scum, or both are town. So it will pretty much have to be Morgrim who speaks first.
What if scum just kill whichever one isn't scum (probably e)? Then Morgrim comes in and says e targeted soinso, and e can't verify because he's dead.
Likely, if Morgrim is telling the truth, all our PRs are outed (we might have one more).
This isn't the case we could have up to 5 PRs. We don't know what things mafia picked.
I was not thinking things through about Morgrim yesterday. I am quite fine with his lynch. If he flips town, it gives any other PRs out there more information to use in their night actions. And should he flip scum, which I now think is more likely, the same thing except we have one scum down on D1! I agree with what faust said - the wagon/interactions may matter more than his flip, which is darn useful in the first place.
As far as everyone else is concerned:
Want to lynch: morgrim
Would lynch: ash, Jorbles, Jimmmmm, Walrus, Robz
Won't lynch: myself, faust, e, Teproc, manda
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:The IC does not need to be around for the deadline. He just needs to make his thoughts clear. I do think we can throw out the soft deadline though. There has been too much discussion to really come to a good conclusion by then. I mean, the actual deadline is December 4 at 10 pm forum time. That means we have 36 hours to get a lynch together. If you are taking Morgrim off the table, we will need all the time we can get.Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I knew there was a soft deadline someone set, but I'm not subscribing to it. Let's use the time we have!
I take it you don't care whether the IC is around for the deadline?
oops. I lost my comment somewhere. I don't want to type it again so I will summarize:
1) throw out the soft deadline
- If we take Morgrim off the table (which I do not like) we will need all the time we can get.
2) The IC does not need to be around at deadline. He needs to make is intentions clear though
New idea.Also, are you telling me not to target you? I mean, I would love to live another day, but I will always be questionable town whereas you are confirmed town.
Morgrim, if you are the Tracker, target 2.7 tonight. 2.7, target someone. Tomorrow, we can verify if Morgrim really is the Tracker. Problem solved.
So everyone, we are not lynching Morgrim today!
Also Morgrim, if you do not listen to this, prepare to be lynched tomorrow.
Which town PRs do you think would profit from a town flip?
To avoid ambiguity, let me quote:Okay, so we'll need a soft deadline. Here's the thing: As the IC, I'd like to be around for the soft deadline, but you know, this is sort of complicated with me living in Europe and all. I propose Tuesday, December 3, 2 pm forum time.So since we are in the business of throwing out random accusations, FoS to everyone who didn't remember the soft deadline, or the real one.
I knew there was a soft deadline someone set, but I'm not subscribing to it. Let's use the time we have!
I take it you don't care whether the IC is around for the deadline?
I'm thinking about a nice plan where I have them name sets of three people which include the target or something... I believe we can work something out that actually works. And anyway, the most likely cases are e is town, Morgrim is scum, or both are town. So it will pretty much have to be Morgrim who speaks first.
What if scum just kill whichever one isn't scum (probably e)? Then Morgrim comes in and says e targeted soinso, and e can't verify because he's dead.
Yes, if e dies, this doesn't work obviously. Then again, if e dies, it's only our weakest PR down, so that's not too bad for us.
Same goes for any other town member. And even if Morgrim is scum, I think he's unlikely to perform the kill tonight.Which town PRs do you think would profit from a town flip?
It's Morgrim's flip specifically, if he should flip town. Because if there are any remaining town PRs out there, they probably have a scum read on Morgrim just based on what we all have posted. If Morgrim lives to tonight, what if the RB blocks Morgrim?
What if the Goon Cop investigates him?Then they get a Non-Goon result. Same would have happened if they investigate any town member we mislynch instead.
What if the Vig decides to simplify things drastically and shoots him?Now, that wouldn't be too bad. Actually, if we have a vig, they should consider this.
If there's a real Tracker who's not Morgrim, they have to WIFOM if they want to track him.
Do you see what I am saying?
Faust, the plan was a very good attempt at finding an elegant solution to the problem, but I believe we just have to accept the (small) risk that Morgrim is the real Tracker and lynch him.
Faust, the plan was a very good attempt at finding an elegant solution to the problem, but I believe we just have to accept the (small) risk that Morgrim is the real Tracker and lynch him.
See, I don't think the risk is that small. After all, we agree that if he's not scum, he likely IS the Tracker, right? Well, there's not a whole lot of scum out there.
Yes, no offence to you Faust, I think this is one of those situation where you are confirmed town but not confirmed right. I think Morg is our best lynch by far today.
Also note he has still done nothing to help us since his outrageous claim. Oh other than unvote himself...
Yes, no offence to you Faust, I think this is one of those situation where you are confirmed town but not confirmed right. I think Morg is our best lynch by far today.
Also note he has still done nothing to help us since his outrageous claim. Oh other than unvote himself...
Right. He's doing very little to avoid being lynched. Whether he would try to avoid being lynched as scum or Town who knows, but you've got to think that he'd put at least some effort in if scum.
When a town pr is really a town pr and claim trying to get the lynch of them, they fight. Or at least I do, morg doesn't care to help us.
Yes, no offence to you Faust, I think this is one of those situation where you are confirmed town but not confirmed right. I think Morg is our best lynch by far today.
Also note he has still done nothing to help us since his outrageous claim. Oh other than unvote himself...
Right. He's doing very little to avoid being lynched. Whether he would try to avoid being lynched as scum or Town who knows, but you've got to think that he'd put at least some effort in if scum.
No no no no no no! We cannot continue this X is trying really hard he must be scum or Y doesn't even care hes getting lynched he can't be scum. Your town, you are obligated to try and find scum and lynch them, you are obligated to fight your own lynch. As scum you should try to do the same, but if you choose not to all you do is hurt your faction whatever that is. So if morgrim is town he is hurting town, if he is scum he is hurting town(by being scum) if we let him live he continues to hurt town, if w lynch him he stops hurting town. No amount of apathy will change that!
Most recent Morgrim opinions. Let me know if any of this is wrong:
Voting Morgrim: Robz, mcmc, teproc, ashersky, Jorbles
Intent to vote Morgrim: Voltaire
OK to watch Morgrim lynch: 2.7, Jimmmmm(?)
Will not vote for: faust, Walrus
Who knows: Morgrim, manda
So we need manda to get back here.
Another thing to think about: if Morgrim is the traitor, scum has an incredibly risky position to take. Do they lynch Morgrim, risking they're lynching one of their own? Or do they happily lynching Morgrim, hoping they're taking out a town PR D1?
I want to lynch Morgrim because he's frustrating and unhelpful. But I'm loath to lynch a claimed PR who, if truthful, can potentially give us decent results.
How much use will a Tracker be? Not much. Likely, if Morgrim is telling the truth, all our PRs are outed (we might have one more). This means he has to target the one scum that performs the night kill to be useful, and live through the night. Then still, there's lots of WFIOM because Morgrim could still be scum.
The information whether Morgrim is telling the truth might be more useful for us than his Tracker ability.
Yes, no offence to you Faust, I think this is one of those situation where you are confirmed town but not confirmed right. I think Morg is our best lynch by far today.
Also note he has still done nothing to help us since his outrageous claim. Oh other than unvote himself...
Right. He's doing very little to avoid being lynched. Whether he would try to avoid being lynched as scum or Town who knows, but you've got to think that he'd put at least some effort in if scum.
No no no no no no! We cannot continue this X is trying really hard he must be scum or Y doesn't even care hes getting lynched he can't be scum. Your town, you are obligated to try and find scum and lynch them, you are obligated to fight your own lynch. As scum you should try to do the same, but if you choose not to all you do is hurt your faction whatever that is. So if morgrim is town he is hurting town, if he is scum he is hurting town(by being scum) if we let him live he continues to hurt town, if w lynch him he stops hurting town. No amount of apathy will change that!
Why? Unfortunately that's how it is sometimes. We shouldn't lynch the least helpful Town, we should lynch scum.
Yes, no offence to you Faust, I think this is one of those situation where you are confirmed town but not confirmed right. I think Morg is our best lynch by far today.
Also note he has still done nothing to help us since his outrageous claim. Oh other than unvote himself...
Right. He's doing very little to avoid being lynched. Whether he would try to avoid being lynched as scum or Town who knows, but you've got to think that he'd put at least some effort in if scum.
No no no no no no! We cannot continue this X is trying really hard he must be scum or Y doesn't even care hes getting lynched he can't be scum. Your town, you are obligated to try and find scum and lynch them, you are obligated to fight your own lynch. As scum you should try to do the same, but if you choose not to all you do is hurt your faction whatever that is. So if morgrim is town he is hurting town, if he is scum he is hurting town(by being scum) if we let him live he continues to hurt town, if w lynch him he stops hurting town. No amount of apathy will change that!
Why? Unfortunately that's how it is sometimes. We shouldn't lynch the least helpful Town, we should lynch scum.
But it's D1, yes if we were close to Mylo this would be different, lynching least helpful Town D1 is not a bad lynch. It makes it easier to lynch scum later.
The sentence actually does not work for Morgrim. Because he did not claim his PR trying to get the lynch off him. (I assume mcmc meant "off" and not "of")When a town pr is really a town pr and claim trying to get the lynch of them, they fight. Or at least I do, morg doesn't care to help us.
If you exchange "town PR" with "scum" in the sentence above, it still works. So Morgrim not defending himself is a nulltell at best.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 24 hours of no activity (VLA posts in the official VLA thread negate automatic prods). A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
I also hope that the IC hammers, not some other person.
Good point. Hammer anyone? Voltaire expressed interest in votingI also hope that the IC hammers, not some other person.
Really? I hope someone else does. It's much more informative.
Another thing: IC said I could bodyguard anyone I think is a good target.
I already gave Robz a D2 pass, so bodyguarding him would be straight up favoritism. Anyone else want to make a pitch as to why they should be guaranteed to survive N1?
(before anyone goes ballistic, the D2 pass for Robz was a joke. Thought I should clear that up)
Another thing: IC said I could bodyguard anyone I think is a good target.
I already gave Robz a D2 pass, so bodyguarding him would be straight up favoritism. Anyone else want to make a pitch as to why they should be guaranteed to survive N1?
Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
Unconfirmable, unprovoked, D1 claims...
If Morgrim actually flips scum I will thank you and admit you've done the right thing. Unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen.
Robz not screaming at the top of his lungs that vigs shouldn't shoot N1 if it exists? Scum!robz.
Robz not screaming at the top of his lungs that vigs shouldn't shoot N1 if it exists? Scum!robz.
No. He didn't do that in WWTWDP and he was town.
Robz not screaming at the top of his lungs that vigs shouldn't shoot N1 if it exists? Scum!robz.
No. He didn't do that in WWTWDP and he was town.
Huh. Was he the vig?
Maybe he's changed his mind?
Robz not screaming at the top of his lungs that vigs shouldn't shoot N1 if it exists? Scum!robz.
No. He didn't do that in WWTWDP and he was town.
Huh. Was he the vig?
Maybe he's changed his mind?
Are you rolefishing? Because it really looks like you're rolefishing.
He was not the Vig, btw. I was scum, and my team thought he was the Vig because of it.
No, I am the one rolefishing asking people to give reasons why I should bodyguard them.
c'mon guys, you really think I would take someone's advice? It would really just be one more thing down on record about them that we can consider.
well, hopefully WE can consider. Some of us will be considering things at least.
Fishing for what? I agree with Faust, we are likely out of PRs.
I woke up to twilight, just trying to get everything out there that comes to mind before a lock.
Ugh. Everyone shut up and let's wait for the flip.
Ok. That a PR would ask for my protection was not my original thought. It was kind of an add-on when I saw the post about role-fishing. My original thought was primarily just to get some reactions and see what happened. I was not being all that serious. If someone actually responded (which I doubted) we may have been able to learn something which would have been cool. I didn't have very high expectations for serious responses.No, I am the one rolefishing asking people to give reasons why I should bodyguard them.
c'mon guys, you really think I would take someone's advice? It would really just be one more thing down on record about them that we can consider.
well, hopefully WE can consider. Some of us will be considering things at least.
You don't see the problem with this? A PR may be more likely to ask for protection seems to be your premise. If true, that's terrible for us. So you aren't helping.
Most recent Morgrim opinions. Let me know if any of this is wrong:
Voting Morgrim: Robz, mcmc, teproc, ashersky, Jorbles
Intent to vote Morgrim: Voltaire
OK to watch Morgrim lynch: 2.7, Jimmmmm(?)
Will not vote for: faust, Walrus
Who knows: Morgrim, manda
So we need manda to get back here.
Another thing to think about: if Morgrim is the traitor, scum has an incredibly risky position to take. Do they lynch Morgrim, risking they're lynching one of their own? Or do they happily lynching Morgrim, hoping they're taking out a town PR D1?
I want to lynch Morgrim because he's frustrating and unhelpful. But I'm loath to lynch a claimed PR who, if truthful, can potentially give us decent results.
Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
This:I want to lynch Morgrim because he's frustrating and unhelpful. But I'm loath to lynch a claimed PR who, if truthful, can potentially give us decent results.
Plus this:Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
= noticable hesitation while still wanting to see willing to go with the lynch. Scum afraid of lynching the Traitor? Scum not wanting to look like he's taking the easy lynch option? Town truly hesitant?
(FWIW, I do believe Jimmmmm's beliefs about how the game works matches up with his hesitation, so I see town!Jimmmmm as likely to exist in this situation as scum!Jimmmm. I just noticed this on catch-up re-read and felt it bore mentioning.)
Well I hate to say I told you so.
I see Jorbles was Town though. Seems a strange kill.
Well I hate to say I told you so.
I see Jorbles was Town though. Seems a strange kill.
Jimm has said almost this exact same thing in a prior game, I believe he got some flak for it but I can't remember his alignment.
I would say that jorbles was one of the top people (if not the top person) who suspected me.
I am still annoyed that he claimed before he could even real one person.Well I hate to say I told you so.
I see Jorbles was Town though. Seems a strange kill.
Jimm has said almost this exact same thing in a prior game, I believe he got some flak for it but I can't remember his alignment.
Hmm. Can you remember which game it was? I can see where you're coming from. I'm still a bit annoyed that we lynched our Tracker on Day 1.
I am still annoyed that he claimed before he could even real one person.Well I hate to say I told you so.
I see Jorbles was Town though. Seems a strange kill.
Jimm has said almost this exact same thing in a prior game, I believe he got some flak for it but I can't remember his alignment.
Hmm. Can you remember which game it was? I can see where you're coming from. I'm still a bit annoyed that we lynched our Tracker on Day 1.
ugh auto correct.I am still annoyed that he claimed before he could even track one person.Well I hate to say I told you so.
I see Jorbles was Town though. Seems a strange kill.
Jimm has said almost this exact same thing in a prior game, I believe he got some flak for it but I can't remember his alignment.
Hmm. Can you remember which game it was? I can see where you're coming from. I'm still a bit annoyed that we lynched our Tracker on Day 1.
I'm not sure if anyone else came out as strongly against the wagon as I did...I remember Jimmmmm saying it was "interesting" how quickly the focus of the wagon had shifted.
Walrus also opposed the Morgrim lynch. I'm not sure that anyone came out as strongly against the wagon as he did.
I think we need to look at Walrus, given the Jorbles NK.funny how he just said all of that right before you did. He was clearly anticipating this angle. Prepared for it overnight because (as scum) he knew jorbles would die?
He was off wagon there, and he even went to the point of saying it felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. That's easily just scum defending "known" town to win towncred. Walrus also opposed the Morgrim lynch. I'm not sure that anyone came out as strongly against the wagon as he did.
vote: ashersky
Tell me I didn't just call that.
I think we need to look at Walrus, given the Jorbles NK.funny how he just said all of that right before you did. He was clearly anticipating this angle. Prepared for it overnight because (as scum) he knew jorbles would die?
He was off wagon there, and he even went to the point of saying it felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. That's easily just scum defending "known" town to win towncred. Walrus also opposed the Morgrim lynch. I'm not sure that anyone came out as strongly against the wagon as he did.
vote: asherskyashersky was one of my D1 scumreads as well. The only thing I am concerned about regarding ash is that he was the only other person jorbles suspected other than me. (Not counting manda) so my question: does scum!ash NK a person who suspected him because he thought we would WIFOM ourselves out of lynching him.
Tell me I didn't just call that.
Well naturally my personal inclination is that scum would more likely be on, because I was off wagon. In fact I made a point of saying that I felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. My egocentric concern is that scum will use that fact to accuse me of defending "known" town to win towncred, to butter me up for a mislynch. Especially because I also opposed the Morgrim lynch, which was a mislynch for reals. I'm not sure if anyone else came out as strongly against the wagon as I did
I think we need to look at Walrus, given the Jorbles NK.
He was off wagon there, and he even went to the point of saying it felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. That's easily just scum defending "known" town to win towncred. Walrus also opposed the Morgrim lynch. I'm not sure that anyone came out as strongly against the wagon as he did.
Are you two both being intentionally thick? I mean, fucking read, people. Go, read what Walrus wrote. Then read what I wrote.
Are you two both being intentionally thick? I mean, fucking read, people. Go, read what Walrus wrote. Then read what I wrote.
In other news, this seems an overreaction.
they look pretty similar to me. Please explain how they are different. I am to thick to get it.Well naturally my personal inclination is that scum would more likely be on, because I was off wagon. In fact I made a point of saying that I felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. My egocentric concern is that scum will use that fact to accuse me of defending "known" town to win towncred, to butter me up for a mislynch. Especially because I also opposed the Morgrim lynch, which was a mislynch for reals. I'm not sure if anyone else came out as strongly against the wagon as I didI think we need to look at Walrus, given the Jorbles NK.
He was off wagon there, and he even went to the point of saying it felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. That's easily just scum defending "known" town to win towncred. Walrus also opposed the Morgrim lynch. I'm not sure that anyone came out as strongly against the wagon as he did.
Oh haha ok.
Are you two both being intentionally thick? I mean, fucking read, people. Go, read what Walrus wrote. Then read what I wrote.
In other news, this seems an overreaction.
Possibly. I was just really gobsmacked that the joke resulted in a vote and a "must be scum cooking shit up in his QT!" accusation.
Obviously it was, instead, me being ridiculously stupid and falling right into Walrus's trap to catch stupid scum that say stupid things right after town predicts scum will say it because scum is stupidface and says things that will obviously make them clearly stupidscum.
Oh. Joking. Like what I did a lot on D1 and it got me in trouble. I SEE NO SCUM READ FROM PEOPLE JOKING.yeah, I was a little slow on that joke though. Thanks for explaining it
Obviously it was, instead, me being ridiculously stupid and falling right into Walrus's trap to catch stupid scum that say stupid things right after town predicts scum will say it because scum is stupidface and says things that will obviously make them clearly stupidscum.
Obviously. Gosh that Walrus is witty, he sure outsmarted you!
Obviously it was, instead, me being ridiculously stupid and falling right into Walrus's trap to catch stupid scum that say stupid things right after town predicts scum will say it because scum is stupidface and says things that will obviously make them clearly stupidscum.
Obviously. Gosh that Walrus is witty, he sure outsmarted you!
You can't say "gosh" in Australian. Doesn't work.
Final Day1 Vote Count
Morgrim (7): Robz, mcmc, teproc, ashersky, Jorbles, 2.7, Voltaire
I'm going to have sex and eat spaghetti.
living in the American southeast for the past 8 years (high school and college) and knowing a few remarks myself, I would say a redneck accent is about right.Obviously it was, instead, me being ridiculously stupid and falling right into Walrus's trap to catch stupid scum that say stupid things right after town predicts scum will say it because scum is stupidface and says things that will obviously make them clearly stupidscum.
Obviously. Gosh that Walrus is witty, he sure outsmarted you!
You can't say "gosh" in Australian. Doesn't work.
I find that when I'm trying to sound dumb I automatically put on an American accent. Maybe a redneck accent, not sure. I don't know if gosh is more acceptable in that case, but I wouldn't say it when speaking normally.
No offense to Americans or anyone else by the way. I was not at all implying that Walrus or e were dumb.
stupid auto correct on my kindle. I am going to bed now before I misstype anything else.living in the American southeast for the past 8 years (high school and college) and knowing a few rednecks myself, I would say a redneck accent is about right.Obviously it was, instead, me being ridiculously stupid and falling right into Walrus's trap to catch stupid scum that say stupid things right after town predicts scum will say it because scum is stupidface and says things that will obviously make them clearly stupidscum.
Obviously. Gosh that Walrus is witty, he sure outsmarted you!
You can't say "gosh" in Australian. Doesn't work.
I find that when I'm trying to sound dumb I automatically put on an American accent. Maybe a redneck accent, not sure. I don't know if gosh is more acceptable in that case, but I wouldn't say it when speaking normally.
No offense to Americans or anyone else by the way. I was not at all implying that Walrus or e were dumb.
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
Post Count:that post count is skewed because of all the v/la though. Manda is the only one I really think is to note from D1, because she went missing at the end.
Voltaire - 81
Walrus - 28
Robz - 76
Jimmmm - 104
ashersky - 107
faust - 66
Jorbles - 43
manda - 20
Teproc - 53
morgrim - 32
2.7 - 99
mcmcsalot - 47
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
I disagree with this in principal and also with your maths. If we assume that there are 2 scum on-wagon and 1 off, then there are 2 of 6 on and 1 of 3 off, which are equal chances. I also disagree with assuming anything about how scum would distribute themselves.
I also don't like the idea of narrowing the lynch pool so soon. Let's see what our IC had to say before we do anything like thatlast post. I need to reread every post for autocorrects before every post I guess
I also don't like the idea of marketing the lynch pool so soon. Let's see what our IC had to say before we do anything like that
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
I disagree with this in principal and also with your maths. If we assume that there are 2 scum on-wagon and 1 off, then there are 2 of 6 on and 1 of 3 off, which are equal chances. I also disagree with assuming anything about how scum would distribute themselves.
That's fine, but it is valid analysis either way. I tend to believe that scum teams are very cognizant of whether they are on/off wagon together, and also of doing NKs on/off wagon.
Harry Potter is a great example of scum shooting themselves in the foot by kill on-wagon on N1.
Here, does scum really kill on-wagon and reduce that pool by one if they are mostly there? WIFOM, sure, but man, you have to consider it.
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
I disagree with this in principal and also with your maths. If we assume that there are 2 scum on-wagon and 1 off, then there are 2 of 6 on and 1 of 3 off, which are equal chances. I also disagree with assuming anything about how scum would distribute themselves.
That's fine, but it is valid analysis either way. I tend to believe that scum teams are very cognizant of whether they are on/off wagon together, and also of doing NKs on/off wagon.
Harry Potter is a great example of scum shooting themselves in the foot by kill on-wagon on N1.
Here, does scum really kill on-wagon and reduce that pool by one if they are mostly there? WIFOM, sure, but man, you have to consider it.
I remember a scumteam - in fact I think it was RMM9, with you on it - deliberately planning to all either be on-wagon or off-wagon together, because people wouldn't expect that. Have you forgotten this, or are you choosing not to remember it?
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
I disagree with this in principal and also with your maths. If we assume that there are 2 scum on-wagon and 1 off, then there are 2 of 6 on and 1 of 3 off, which are equal chances. I also disagree with assuming anything about how scum would distribute themselves.
That's fine, but it is valid analysis either way. I tend to believe that scum teams are very cognizant of whether they are on/off wagon together, and also of doing NKs on/off wagon.
Harry Potter is a great example of scum shooting themselves in the foot by kill on-wagon on N1.
Here, does scum really kill on-wagon and reduce that pool by one if they are mostly there? WIFOM, sure, but man, you have to consider it.
I remember a scumteam - in fact I think it was RMM9, with you on it - deliberately planning to all either be on-wagon or off-wagon together, because people wouldn't expect that. Have you forgotten this, or are you choosing not to remember it?
Yep, the ninth non-mod post in the Mafia QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/XjBeXRhkgk3):
"Another thing, I think it'd be great if we were all on or off lynch wagon on D1. Wagon analysis invariably turns to were they on or off, and usually falls on a split. If we are all together, it helps survive later in the game. "
And you're trying to make us assume how scum will split between on- and off-wagon?
Vote: ashersky
Shall I go copy and paste things from LOTR1 and match them up with things you do here?
Shall I go copy and paste things from LOTR1 and match them up with things you do here?
Be my guest. For someone who is all about people's metas which are all about past performances, you seem really offended that I've brought up one of yours.
Also, you just proved MY point. We have to analyze the wagons. We have to decide if scum is more likely on or off.
You also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
I'm annoyed that you think I would repeat something so blatantly, and from such a recent scum game. You really do think I'm an idiot.
Post Count:that post count is skewed because of all the v/la though. Manda is the only one I really think is to note from D1, because she went missing at the end.
Voltaire - 81
Walrus - 28
Robz - 76
Jimmmm - 104
ashersky - 107
faust - 66
Jorbles - 43
manda - 20
Teproc - 53
morgrim - 32
2.7 - 99
mcmcsalot - 47
Well the obvious thing about Jorbles is the semi-random wagon that ran up at the end of D1. Here's the question: does the NK suggest that scum is more likely to be on or off that wagon?
Also, you just proved MY point. We have to analyze the wagons. We have to decide if scum is more likely on or off.
Your point was that there was probably 2 scum on, 1 off. My first point is that no you can't assume this. My bigger point is that you should know better than that.
QuoteYou also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
You know for a fact that they didn't?
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
OMGUS?
Back to Vote: ashersky
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
QuoteYou also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
You know for a fact that they didn't?
You know for a fact they did?
QuoteYou also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
You know for a fact that they didn't?
You know for a fact they did?
No, I never assumed they did. You seemed to assume they didn't.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
OMGUS?
Back to Vote: ashersky
OMGUS? I didn't even vote for you.
Or you mean how you are voting me now?
Like I said before your ridiculousness, your missteps made you seem more likely town to me.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
OMGUS?
Back to Vote: ashersky
OMGUS? I didn't even vote for you.
Or you mean how you are voting me now?
Like I said before your ridiculousness, your missteps made you seem more likely town to me.
OMGUS doesn't necessarily have to include a vote. You're saying I'm scum - why not vote for me? So you can say it's not OMGUS?
I also don't like the idea of marketing the lynch pool so soon. Let's see what our IC had to say before we do anything like that
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
This is also a valid point, in my opinion. A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean. Scum wants to do this. They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.
Look, that's what you did.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
OMGUS?
Back to Vote: ashersky
OMGUS? I didn't even vote for you.
Or you mean how you are voting me now?
Like I said before your ridiculousness, your missteps made you seem more likely town to me.
OMGUS doesn't necessarily have to include a vote. You're saying I'm scum - why not vote for me? So you can say it's not OMGUS?
Again, for the third time, I most recently said that you seemed MORE LIKELY TOWN to me. You are OMGUSing my slight town read on you? That makes no sense.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
OMGUS?
Back to Vote: ashersky
OMGUS? I didn't even vote for you.
Or you mean how you are voting me now?
Like I said before your ridiculousness, your missteps made you seem more likely town to me.
OMGUS doesn't necessarily have to include a vote. You're saying I'm scum - why not vote for me? So you can say it's not OMGUS?
Again, for the third time, I most recently said that you seemed MORE LIKELY TOWN to me. You are OMGUSing my slight town read on you? That makes no sense.
Also, what ridiculousness?
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
This is also a valid point, in my opinion. A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean. Scum wants to do this. They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.
Look, that's what you did.
I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
This is also a valid point, in my opinion. A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean. Scum wants to do this. They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.
Look, that's what you did.
I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.
And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
Also, what ridiculousness?
The "oh oh ash said something once in a previous mafia QT and that must mean he's stupid enough to immediately repeat it this game" thing.
PPE: OMGUS
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
This is also a valid point, in my opinion. A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean. Scum wants to do this. They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.
Look, that's what you did.
I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.
And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
And Jimmmmm, why in the world are you trying to scum your way out of a town read? I really do not understand you.
I get the feeling this is one of those pressure plan tactics thingies that you like to do as town, where you go all batshit crazy for a bit, then calm back down to normal and go "yeah, that was to see what people would say and do."
Also, what ridiculousness?
The "oh oh ash said something once in a previous mafia QT and that must mean he's stupid enough to immediately repeat it this game" thing.
PPE: OMGUS
Okay.
I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my point. Let me restate it.
In a recent game you planned to stay together on or off wagons with your scumbuddies. Now you are assuming and encouraging the assumption that scum are going to be split on and off, most likely with 2 on and 1 off. I'm saying that given you recently planned as scum to do differently, and so, if you're Town, you should know better than to assume this. Your assumption makes no sense to me from a Town point of view. Whether it makes sense from a scum point of view is basically nothing but WIFOM, and so largely irrelevant.
Walrus at 28 seems really low. I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively).
Manda needs to step it up. Everyone else is basically fine.
Walrus at 28 seems really low. I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively).
Manda needs to step it up. Everyone else is basically fine.
And then you accuse me of singling manda out?
Walrus at 28 seems really low. I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively).
Manda needs to step it up. Everyone else is basically fine.
And then you accuse me of singling manda out?
For a vote, yes.
Walrus at 28 seems really low. I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively).
Manda needs to step it up. Everyone else is basically fine.
And then you accuse me of singling manda out?
For a vote, yes.
Was the problem that I singled her out or that I voted for her?
I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?
It was odd to suddenly know she was online, know she was viewing the thread, and be able to swoop in and vote her.
I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?
Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting. Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative. You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.
I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?
Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting. Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative. You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.
If this Townread is so slight, why is it taking so long to be chiselled away? How am I being obtuse?
I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?
Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting. Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative. You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.
If this Townread is so slight, why is it taking so long to be chiselled away? How am I being obtuse?
This is you being obtuse.
Fuck this. I'm done.
Something I was going to say earlier - I think a probable reason for the Jorbles kill is scum who are aware that we will analyse who they kill and wanted not to give us any good leads. Possibly they planned to manipulate the analysis.
We have six others on wagon. How many scum rode the known (to them) mislynch of a PR? 2? Hilariously, if the traitor isn't recruited, they don't know if they are on wagon together or not.
I also don't like the idea of marketing the lynch pool so soon. Let's see what our IC had to say before we do anything like that
I'm also really interested to hear what the IC has to say before getting too deep into an analytic spiral.
And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
Ash, I had similar thoughts about Jimm, but I think they are best explored Day 2. Well, we need the flip for one thing. For another, I don't want to clue scum in to who they should shoot based on where my suspicions currently lie.
This:I want to lynch Morgrim because he's frustrating and unhelpful. But I'm loath to lynch a claimed PR who, if truthful, can potentially give us decent results.
Plus this:Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
= noticable hesitation while still wanting to see willing to go with the lynch. Scum afraid of lynching the Traitor? Scum not wanting to look like he's taking the easy lynch option? Town truly hesitant?
Wha happened today? Not much, mostly ashersky being ashersky. Seems strange to me to look for scum off-wagon, one would think that scum is quite happy to lynch a claimed PR.
At the end of D1, I had the same thoughts as Robz here:Ash, I had similar thoughts about Jimm, but I think they are best explored Day 2. Well, we need the flip for one thing. For another, I don't want to clue scum in to who they should shoot based on where my suspicions currently lie.
which was referring to ash here:This:I want to lynch Morgrim because he's frustrating and unhelpful. But I'm loath to lynch a claimed PR who, if truthful, can potentially give us decent results.
Plus this:Well there you go. I guess lynching claimed PRs is kind of what we do here.
= noticable hesitation while still wanting to see willing to go with the lynch. Scum afraid of lynching the Traitor? Scum not wanting to look like he's taking the easy lynch option? Town truly hesitant?
I do NOT like the fact that I am thinking like ashersky, but if he's town that's fine, and I'm now thinking much more in that direction. And this is what I was talking about with my "everyone shut up and wait for a flip" after Jimmmmm's cred-move and e's insanity.
Is there a reason the player list is spoilered? ???
Re: ash. I do not like his play today. At all. But I do not see a clear through-line for scum!ash to be doing what he's doing. I believe this is more likely tunneling-his-reads town!ash, at least right now. Like this:And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
That is just hardcore tunneling on Jimmmmm. Of course manda stands out more than other lurkers. This is a reasonable action by Jimmmmm.
Re: ash. I do not like his play today. At all. But I do not see a clear through-line for scum!ash to be doing what he's doing. I believe this is more likely tunneling-his-reads town!ash, at least right now. Like this:And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
That is just hardcore tunneling on Jimmmmm. Of course manda stands out more than other lurkers. This is a reasonable action by Jimmmmm.
Whatever ash is doing, he's certainly not tunnelling. He reminded me a number of times of his Townread on me and that if I kept up what I was doing that was in danger of becoming a scumread, but also gave a number of reasons why he thought I was scum. Hedging maybe. Manipulative maybe. But not tunnelling.
Re: ash. I do not like his play today. At all. But I do not see a clear through-line for scum!ash to be doing what he's doing. I believe this is more likely tunneling-his-reads town!ash, at least right now. Like this:And every other player who hasn't posted yet? Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post? That is very, very odd.
That is just hardcore tunneling on Jimmmmm. Of course manda stands out more than other lurkers. This is a reasonable action by Jimmmmm.
Whatever ash is doing, he's certainly not tunnelling. He reminded me a number of times of his Townread on me and that if I kept up what I was doing that was in danger of becoming a scumread, but also gave a number of reasons why he thought I was scum. Hedging maybe. Manipulative maybe. But not tunnelling.
I do agree with you. Maybe there's ash!tunneling, a different thing. What I mean is that (from my point of view) there is a decent case on you, and ash is spinning literally everything to be a case on you, even things that are not/should give you town points.
It reminds me very strongly of ash in Clue vs. TA.
What the case on me? That I was against the Morgrim lynch but said I wanted to do it out of frustration and sarcastically said that lynching PRs is what we do?
What the case on me? That I was against the Morgrim lynch but said I wanted to do it out of frustration and sarcastically said that lynching PRs is what we do?
That first part, yes. Very much. Scum would have two reactions, depending on the setup, to the Morgrim wagon:
1. Jumping with insane glee
2. Extreme paranoia that Morgrim drew traitor
I can see what you did fitting very nicely with 2 (also, I don't remember you working hard to derail the lynch, even though you were against it) and 1 both. There's also the rest of your play D1, like refusing to give Robz townpoints on his setup confusion (which I am now really starting to think makes him well and truly town, along with manda). There was something more relating to mcmc but I can't find it now and am getting worried it was from another game.
So you're saying that I had extreme paranoia that Morgrim was the Traitor, but you're also accusing me of not trying hard enough to derail the lynch? Which one is it?
Do you disagree with me on Robz? Do you believe that if someone does something then immediately claims Townpoints for it, you should just give it to them?
I actually think it doesn't change whether or not they get townpoints for it. I actually think maybe it makes it more likely they should get them (except for Robz).
I actually think it doesn't change whether or not they get townpoints for it. I actually think maybe it makes it more likely they should get them (except for Robz).
Does this scenario make sense to you at all?
Robz makes a setup mistake in his scum QT. His partner corrects him on it. Together they decide that Robz should make the same mistake in the game thread in order to get Town points.
I actually think it doesn't change whether or not they get townpoints for it. I actually think maybe it makes it more likely they should get them (except for Robz).
Does this scenario make sense to you at all?
Robz makes a setup mistake in his scum QT. His partner corrects him on it. Together they decide that Robz should make the same mistake in the game thread in order to get Town points.
Yes. That absolutely could have happened. I just do not find it the most likely explanation. Also, does Robz then immediately ask for Town points in your scenario? Why?
I actually think it doesn't change whether or not they get townpoints for it. I actually think maybe it makes it more likely they should get them (except for Robz).
Does this scenario make sense to you at all?
Robz makes a setup mistake in his scum QT. His partner corrects him on it. Together they decide that Robz should make the same mistake in the game thread in order to get Town points.
Yes. That absolutely could have happened. I just do not find it the most likely explanation. Also, does Robz then immediately ask for Town points in your scenario? Why?
That's a good question, I don't know. WIFOM. You'll not that I never gave Robz scum points for it.
I actually think it doesn't change whether or not they get townpoints for it. I actually think maybe it makes it more likely they should get them (except for Robz).
Does this scenario make sense to you at all?
Robz makes a setup mistake in his scum QT. His partner corrects him on it. Together they decide that Robz should make the same mistake in the game thread in order to get Town points.
Yes. That absolutely could have happened. I just do not find it the most likely explanation. Also, does Robz then immediately ask for Town points in your scenario? Why?
That's a good question, I don't know. WIFOM. You'll not that I never gave Robz scum points for it.
This is why I lean town. It makes sense as a scum ploy to make that mistake. That's already a gambit. I do not see adding another layer of gambit with the "asking for points".
Okay sure. But this isn't about Robz is it? This is about my reaction to it. Do you think it makes sense for me from a Town point of view to not give Robz the Town points?
Okay sure. But this isn't about Robz is it? This is about my reaction to it. Do you think it makes sense for me from a Town point of view to not give Robz the Town points?
Yes. But it makes more sense for you, as scum, to quickly shut down Robz (and manda, but you wouldn't know that) becoming an IC. You don't know how town is going to take his comment, so just steer the reaction the way you want it to go.
I cannot for the live of me find the other post that makes you scummy though, that is the one that has been hanging around in the back of my mind. It had to do with mcmc and I thought it was related to the D1 ash/Jimmmmm fight.
Do you mean my first post of Day 2, and mcmc saying that I've been called out for that before but he couldn't remember my alignment?
Do you mean my first post of Day 2, and mcmc saying that I've been called out for that before but he couldn't remember my alignment?
No, it was definitely older than that. I had you as a lite scum read for most of D1, and started getting really worried at day's end/flip time. The rest of the stuff is from re-reading you. Thank you for helping me out though!
I did say something earlyish Day 1 about mcmc's play reading scummy to me and him reminding me of scum mcmc in DS9. He's still a slight scumread for me, and I'll have another look at this at some point.
What ?
We're not even 24 hours into day 2 and your lynch pool is 4 people ? That makes no sense. What warrants excluding ash, manda and Robz when 2 of these people have barely posted today ? Having town reads on them, why not, but starting POE on such little material (manda and Robz being wrong on setup, what's the reason for ash again ?) is downright stupid.
That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.
That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.
I am making if/then statements. That is how the game is played.
You are making them way too early is what I'm saying. POE is how you get to a lynch after content has been generated by everyone, not right at the start of the day.
That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.
This. Generally scum's number one goal is to convince people they're Town. Taking people out of the lynch pool for "acting like their Town selves" is ridiculous. faust is an IC. e should be off the table for now in my opinion. Everyone is 100% fair game.
I am making if/then statements. That is how the game is played.
If Walrus, manda, Teproc, e and mcmcsalot are all Town, then the scum team is Volt/ash/Robz. Game over.
vote: ashersky
Tell me I didn't just call that.
I think it's amazing that I was able to predict it so accurately. As soon as I saw the NK that's what my brain screamed at me. You know, I didn't know if I should post it to be honest, because I felt like it would just look weird and paranoid. But I am of the mind that it's better to post your thoughts even if they're kind of crazy.
And I'm glad I did. Not so crazy at all.
Thisvote: ashersky
Tell me I didn't just call that.
Along with thisI think it's amazing that I was able to predict it so accurately. As soon as I saw the NK that's what my brain screamed at me. You know, I didn't know if I should post it to be honest, because I felt like it would just look weird and paranoid. But I am of the mind that it's better to post your thoughts even if they're kind of crazy.
And I'm glad I did. Not so crazy at all.
Seem really scummy to me. I mean first off I got what ashersky did instantly, but that second post by walrus feels like scum getting really excited about a knock out case and then weirdly covering/explaining why it happened. Throw in some typical scum tells such as "wasn't sure if I should post and not wanting to look paraniod" I think this is really scummy.
Faust and teproc posts read.
Teproc had a lot of bulk that meant nothing. If scum leaves 2.7
Alive they leave us guessing, they know if they can make us lynch another of our own pr's by not believing him. Or he could be scum doesn't matter either way the nk won't help us figure out 2.7 alignment unless 2.7 dies.
I think 2.7 has actually been towny today so slight scum read on teproc for pushing a 2.7 scum read based on nothing.
What ?
We're not even 24 hours into day 2 and your lynch pool is 4 people ? That makes no sense. What warrants excluding ash, manda and Robz when 2 of these people have barely posted today ? Having town reads on them, why not, but starting POE on such little material (manda and Robz being wrong on setup, what's the reason for ash again ?) is downright stupid.
What ?
We're not even 24 hours into day 2 and your lynch pool is 4 people ? That makes no sense. What warrants excluding ash, manda and Robz when 2 of these people have barely posted today ? Having town reads on them, why not, but starting POE on such little material (manda and Robz being wrong on setup, what's the reason for ash again ?) is downright stupid.
Waitwaitwait... when was I wrong on the setup?
Well then, I'll try to be a good IC for you all.
Before we really get started, I would like everyone to answer the following question:
If you were mafia in this game, which (if any) powers would you have picked?
Everyone's answer should include his preferred set of powers (as mafia). Don't just say "well, this looks neat, but maybe I would have also chosen that."
Think about whether this is actually a good idea or not. I think in the past pick your poison setups, we determined it was not. It helps the Mafia determine who has which PR.
I haven't read any past games with a similar set-up to this one, but I think Robz makes a good point. Since there's not a way to get that info to the IC privately and let him interpret it without everyone knowing, it seems like it would give way too much information to the mafia.
Okay sure. But this isn't about Robz is it? This is about my reaction to it. Do you think it makes sense for me from a Town point of view to not give Robz the Town points?
Yes. But it makes more sense for you, as scum, to quickly shut down Robz (and manda, but you wouldn't know that) becoming an IC. You don't know how town is going to take his comment, so just steer the reaction the way you want it to go.
I cannot for the live of me find the other post that makes you scummy though, that is the one that has been hanging around in the back of my mind. It had to do with mcmc and I thought it was related to the D1 ash/Jimmmmm fight.
Do you mean my first post of Day 2, and mcmc saying that I've been called out for that before but he couldn't remember my alignment?
I did say something earlyish Day 1 about mcmc's play reading scummy to me and him reminding me of scum mcmc in DS9. He's still a slight scumread for me, and I'll have another look at this at some point.
That's it!
It's not at all what I remembered. unvote
I did say something earlyish Day 1 about mcmc's play reading scummy to me and him reminding me of scum mcmc in DS9. He's still a slight scumread for me, and I'll have another look at this at some point.
That's it!
It's not at all what I remembered. unvote
Or this
That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.
This. Generally scum's number one goal is to convince people they're Town. Taking people out of the lynch pool for "acting like their Town selves" is ridiculous. faust is an IC. e should be off the table for now in my opinion. Everyone is 100% fair game.
This is essentially what I was trying to say early on about too much meta-analysis not being helpful. People generally know how they normally act, and if they're scum, they're going to be extra careful to sound just like they do when they're town.
Okay sure. But this isn't about Robz is it? This is about my reaction to it. Do you think it makes sense for me from a Town point of view to not give Robz the Town points?
Yes. But it makes more sense for you, as scum, to quickly shut down Robz (and manda, but you wouldn't know that) becoming an IC. You don't know how town is going to take his comment, so just steer the reaction the way you want it to go.
I cannot for the live of me find the other post that makes you scummy though, that is the one that has been hanging around in the back of my mind. It had to do with mcmc and I thought it was related to the D1 ash/Jimmmmm fight.
Do you mean my first post of Day 2, and mcmc saying that I've been called out for that before but he couldn't remember my alignment?
I believe he is referring to day 1, we got into a omgusish thing for I believe the same discussion about giving robz town cred. If I remember found robz towny(not just for that) you disagreed I voted you for you opinion on robz and volt and you claimed omgus. I believe jorbles got involved somehow as how.
Okay sure. But this isn't about Robz is it? This is about my reaction to it. Do you think it makes sense for me from a Town point of view to not give Robz the Town points?
Yes. But it makes more sense for you, as scum, to quickly shut down Robz (and manda, but you wouldn't know that) becoming an IC. You don't know how town is going to take his comment, so just steer the reaction the way you want it to go.
I cannot for the live of me find the other post that makes you scummy though, that is the one that has been hanging around in the back of my mind. It had to do with mcmc and I thought it was related to the D1 ash/Jimmmmm fight.
Do you mean my first post of Day 2, and mcmc saying that I've been called out for that before but he couldn't remember my alignment?
I believe he is referring to day 1, we got into a omgusish thing for I believe the same discussion about giving robz town cred. If I remember found robz towny(not just for that) you disagreed I voted you for you opinion on robz and volt and you claimed omgus. I believe jorbles got involved somehow as how.
hmmmm I'm gonna go reread that.
Okay I need to post as I go since there has been a lot of stuff.
Thisvote: ashersky
Tell me I didn't just call that.
Along with thisI think it's amazing that I was able to predict it so accurately. As soon as I saw the NK that's what my brain screamed at me. You know, I didn't know if I should post it to be honest, because I felt like it would just look weird and paranoid. But I am of the mind that it's better to post your thoughts even if they're kind of crazy.
And I'm glad I did. Not so crazy at all.
Seem really scummy to me. I mean first off I got what ashersky did instantly, but that second post by walrus feels like scum getting really excited about a knock out case and then weirdly covering/explaining why it happened. Throw in some typical scum tells such as "wasn't sure if I should post and not wanting to look paraniod" I think this is really scummy.
Next page;
2.7 reacts towny confused/angry about joke suspicion(he is coming across as a smart player I don't think he would complain about the joke suspicion if he was scum)
Jimm reacts like Jimm, null tell to be honest
Ash reacts like ash, null tell as well.
Have not read past that will contuniue while posting.
Town is unsure. Mafia picks reasonable-sounding stances.Because I have to admit, he is well on his way to convincing me of his position. I just don't have that good of a feeling about Voltaire right now. Not based on a scum read. Just not a town read either. Null read. (I hate null reads, and am therefore uncomfortable about Voltaire right now) So nothing on Voltaire yet, but he is on my watch carefully list.
Obviously I was on the [Jorbles] wagon, for (real life and in-game) reasons I think were justified--there was little enough information to go on that I was comfortable with a random lynch that would provide more information, and I knew that I wouldn't have time to commit to any serious analysis. However, the fact that he got NK'd definitely adds a new dimension to that wagon.I am still uncomfortable with Manda's Jorbles vote. The NK does bring an interesting dimension to it. It also makes me suspect Manda more as town similar to the way I suspect Ash more as town because of the NK. Because of the way she voted on the wagon, and how it makes her look after the NK, would she be so bold as to off the person she voted for just before disappearing? I don't think so.
Walrus: Not getting the joke right away is fine. But his original post very much looked like a "I will put this out so no one can challenge me on it today without being scummy because I said so." so slightly scummy. I do not really see him as scummy for his reaction to Ash, but rather that original post trying to stop accusations before they happen.
Faust what is your analysis of this data?
Succesful Roleblocker + Vig would be necessary for that right ? Pretty unlikely, but I guess it's theoretically possible.
What the case on me? That I was against the Morgrim lynch but said I wanted to do it out of frustration and sarcastically said that lynching PRs is what we do?
That first part, yes. Very much. Scum would have two reactions, depending on the setup, to the Morgrim wagon:
1. Jumping with insane glee
2. Extreme paranoia that Morgrim drew traitor
I can see what you did fitting very nicely with 2 (also, I don't remember you working hard to derail the lynch, even though you were against it) and 1 both. There's also the rest of your play D1, like refusing to give Robz townpoints on his setup confusion (which I am now really starting to think makes him well and truly town, along with manda). There was something more relating to mcmc but I can't find it now and am getting worried it was from another game.
Basically - if there's scum off-wagon, it's probably Jimmmmm.
Basically - if there's scum off-wagon, it's probably Jimmmmm.
Why not Walrus?
Basically - if there's scum off-wagon, it's probably Jimmmmm.
Why not Walrus?
I currently think it is more likely Walrus! The Jimmmmm stuff you quoted was based on me remembering a "gut" scummy read on him and trying to figure out where it came from. I then built a case on him from my poor memory. Are you caught up? I'm voting Walrus.
Yeah yeah I know. Not one of my finer moments. I thought I had done something extremely brilliant, instead I acted very foolish. Quite embarrassing...it sort of makes me want to crawl under a rock and just try again next game lol.Walrus, when you say "not one of my finer moments" are you referring to not getting the joke right away, or to your original post (basically saying it was a mistake to post what you did)
Give me a minute and I'll take a look at what has transpired since then.
Not getting the joke. I still stand by my original post.
Bump? Anyone there? Robz you are online, what are your thoughts? I don't really have much to say that I didn't say in my scummary. I do lean town for walrus right now.
Big takeaway: The NK shifted D1 scum reads on Manda and Ashersky to town reads. So either this NK was brilliant by scum (if at least one of them is scum) or it was a blunder (if both Ash and Manda are town).
Big takeaway: The NK shifted D1 scum reads on Manda and Ashersky to town reads. So either this NK was brilliant by scum (if at least one of them is scum) or it was a blunder (if both Ash and Manda are town).
What do you guys think of this?
Is there a reason the player list is spoilered? ???
That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.
I am making if/then statements. That is how the game is played.
This is essentially what I was trying to say early on about too much meta-analysis not being helpful. People generally know how they normally act, and if they're scum, they're going to be extra careful to sound just like they do when they're town.
Of course that's what scum is always trying to do. It sounds simple, but it isn't simple.
Everyone saying Jimm vs Ash is so definitely town vs town is not a sentiment I share. I think it is equally plausible that the argument was scum/town, town/town, town/scum. I mean just that it fits for town and scum ash and jimm to have acted that way toward eachother.
So if one of Walrus or 2.7 is scum I think one of ash/jimm is likely to be scum.
Also I still think vote: walrus is probably scum.
Big takeaway: The NK shifted D1 scum reads on Manda and Ashersky to town reads. So either this NK was brilliant by scum (if at least one of them is scum) or it was a blunder (if both Ash and Manda are town).
What do you guys think of this?
I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust? As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up. The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.
I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust? As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up. The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.
You believe e to be scum?
I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust? As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up. The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.
You believe e to be scum?
If he fakeclaimed, then yes.
I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.
I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.
I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust? As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up. The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.
You believe e to be scum?
If he fakeclaimed, then yes.
Do you believe he fakeclaimed?
I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.
I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.
What got you so upset?
I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.
I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.
What got you so upset?
You. We're past that now, no need to rehash.
I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.
I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.
What got you so upset?
You. We're past that now, no need to rehash.
I'm not sure we are. Why do you want to brush it all under the carpet?
Because I really think it's in the best interest of the game, and you and me, and the forum, to not have more incivility than necessary.
Why do you insist on restarting this fight? What do you get out of that? What does the game get out of it?
Because I really think it's in the best interest of the game, and you and me, and the forum, to not have more incivility than necessary.
Why do you insist on restarting this fight? What do you get out of that? What does the game get out of it?
Wait, what incivility? You called me obtuse a couple of times and then said "fuck this" and left for a while. What did I do that was uncivil? Genuine question.
I think you think it's in the best interest of you staying alive to not continue the discussion.
You were (and still seem to be) purposefully being disrespectful and rude to me. If you are scum, then fine, I get it, that's part of the game. But there is a fine line with the civility pledge, and you were at the very least toeing it. I reached out to the mod about it, and we decided a break from the game was fine, although I risked the prod penalty nonetheless.
It wasn't worth making the game worse for everyone else, so I left. If you prefer I /out instead to satisfy you, say the word. I don't understand your need to make this game so terrible for everyone else, though.
I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.
I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.
I appreciate that. I mean, I guess I assumed that, to be honest. If you are scum, you could use argumentation and other tactics as part of your game. I'd support your right to, even. You know as well as any that I've done it myself.
If you are town, and as I've mentioned (and you pointed out that I mentioned) I think you are more likely to be, is where the feeling I was getting from your posts weren't good, because you'd have no reason to do it as town.
When we were arguing, it really did feel like you were pushing buttons in a way that was designed to make me angry or upset, and weren't related to the game directly. It was more about me personally, and not the game, which is what we try our best not to do, even in a game that is all about each others' "metas" or personalities. If that's not how you meant it, I accept that, and as I mentioned, prefer to move on from it and refocus on the game. It doesn't change how I felt at the time, but the reaction, over or not, is passed. I don't want to let it ruin the game, distract others from playing the game and scumhunting, or harm other games present or future.
I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.
I appreciate that. I mean, I guess I assumed that, to be honest. If you are scum, you could use argumentation and other tactics as part of your game. I'd support your right to, even. You know as well as any that I've done it myself.
If you are town, and as I've mentioned (and you pointed out that I mentioned) I think you are more likely to be, is where the feeling I was getting from your posts weren't good, because you'd have no reason to do it as town.
When we were arguing, it really did feel like you were pushing buttons in a way that was designed to make me angry or upset, and weren't related to the game directly. It was more about me personally, and not the game, which is what we try our best not to do, even in a game that is all about each others' "metas" or personalities. If that's not how you meant it, I accept that, and as I mentioned, prefer to move on from it and refocus on the game. It doesn't change how I felt at the time, but the reaction, over or not, is passed. I don't want to let it ruin the game, distract others from playing the game and scumhunting, or harm other games present or future.
Okay. Um. Hmm. Can you please quote the lines that I said that you had a problem with? I mean, I still have a scumread on you, based on things you've said. I want to make an actual case on you that is not just a back-and-forth argument, and see what people think, but I'm still not sure what you're okay and not okay with me saying. I definitely never wanted to make you angry in a non-game sense.
Serious question: did you want to make me angry in an in-game sense?
Serious question: did you want to make me angry in an in-game sense?
If you're scum I want you to feel under pressure and have to react in ways that might give you away. This game can be super frustrating, especially when you're scum. I have no problem with frustrating people in this way, with the assumption that we can still be friends because that's just the game.
I'm still no closer to understanding what upset you. Please know that I would never intentionally break or come close to breaking the civility pledge. I would appreciate it if in future if you feel this way, that you let me know at the time what offended you so we can work it out as soon as possible rather than leaving each other upset and/or confused.
What no what everyone be nice kickball.
What no what everyone be nice kickball.
Drunk AMA?
Are you not not not town?
Everyone saying Jimm vs Ash is so definitely town vs town is not a sentiment I share. I think it is equally plausible that the argument was scum/town, town/town, town/scum. I mean just that it fits for town and scum ash and jimm to have acted that way toward eachother.
So if one of Walrus or 2.7 is scum I think one of ash/jimm is likely to be scum.
Also I still think vote: walrus is probably scum.
You know, for awhile now I've been thinking that, when someone makes these statements (see bolded) but leaves out the "scum/scum" possibility, they are actually scum. They know that both of the players arguing are town, and they would like the lynch to fall on one of the two, so they make these sorts of "well it could be scum/town, town/scum..." sorts of statements, but they forget to say "scum/scum" because they are scum and they don't want to push it. Just a thought.
Is there a reason the player list is spoilered? ???
Probably for future reading? It was the norm back in the beginning of f.ds mafia.
This game may need a little push, so I'm just throwing my current suspicions out there:
e - suspicious for not dying tonight. Also seems very eager to sheep the IC.
This game may need a little push, so I'm just throwing my current suspicions out there:
e - suspicious for not dying tonight. Also seems very eager to sheep the IC.
What do you think about the way e behaved prior to his claim? That's one of the biggest reasons I think e is town. I just don't see scum doing that.
Sorry for my absence; based on the activity level in here though it looks to be a common state of affairs. I did want to get something down though.
OK, so time for my daily post, and I've got two pages about claiming to work with.
Alright, let me post something. I spent rather more time yesterday in the Detroit International Airport than I would have preferred. So I'm feeling a little burned out.
So I realized that I hadn't posted much about Jimmmmm
I'm not sure. Well naturally my personal inclination is that scum would more likely be on, because I was off wagon. In fact I made a point of saying that I felt like we were heading towards a mislynch. My egocentric concern is that scum will use that fact to accuse me of defending "known" town to win towncred, to butter me up for a mislynch. Especially because I also opposed the Morgrim lynch, which was a mislynch for reals. But that could be improbable and self-centered. I'm not sure if anyone else came out as strongly against the wagon as I did...I remember Jimmmmm saying it was "interesting" how quickly the focus of the wagon had shifted.
vote: ashersky
Tell me I didn't just call that.
I think it's amazing that I was able to predict it so accurately. As soon as I saw the NK that's what my brain screamed at me. You know, I didn't know if I should post it to be honest, because I felt like it would just look weird and paranoid. But I am of the mind that it's better to post your thoughts even if they're kind of crazy.
And I'm glad I did. Not so crazy at all.
What exactly about his play is it that makes you think e is town?
Everyone saying Jimm vs Ash is so definitely town vs town is not a sentiment I share. I think it is equally plausible that the argument was scum/town, town/town, town/scum. I mean just that it fits for town and scum ash and jimm to have acted that way toward eachother.
So if one of Walrus or 2.7 is scum I think one of ash/jimm is likely to be scum.
Also I still think vote: walrus is probably scum.
You know, for awhile now I've been thinking that, when someone makes these statements (see bolded) but leaves out the "scum/scum" possibility, they are actually scum. They know that both of the players arguing are town, and they would like the lynch to fall on one of the two, so they make these sorts of "well it could be scum/town, town/scum..." sorts of statements, but they forget to say "scum/scum" because they are scum and they don't want to push it. Just a thought.
This is a quite good observation. mcmc, why did you leave out the scum/scum option?
I guess it is because I feel like it would make no sense for them both to be scum. I do not by any means think it meanse they ouldn't be scum together. I jut doubt it.
I am caught up! I'll post my full thoughts when I get a chance but... I lean town on ash, heavily on Voltaire. Town still on 2.7. Walrus and Jim most likely scum to me. Teproc and mcmc are my big unknowns
Okay I have to post while it's still fresh in my mind.
Jimm, I really think is scum.
First off, this is a level of activity I've never seen from Jimm, or least not in recent memory. Jimm is usually town, he usually is pleasant, psuedo-lurking. He's very active here, and this questioning strategy, I've never seen from him. I've been on him since the beginning because of our exchange over me being considered an IC.
And... what was the rest of it... well, I think ash is town. As always. I think Jimm had a better argument there, and kept driving it home to score easy "win points" if that makes any sense.
Let's see, Jimm keeps trying to draw the circle wider (Teproc is too, by the way).
Oh! And yeah, his stance on the Morgrim thing raised major red flags. Seemed like a likely stance scum would have.
Vote: Jimm and I feel pretty good about it.
Everyone saying Jimm vs Ash is so definitely town vs town is not a sentiment I share. I think it is equally plausible that the argument was scum/town, town/town, town/scum. I mean just that it fits for town and scum ash and jimm to have acted that way toward eachother.
So if one of Walrus or 2.7 is scum I think one of ash/jimm is likely to be scum.
Also I still think vote: walrus is probably scum.
You know, for awhile now I've been thinking that, when someone makes these statements (see bolded) but leaves out the "scum/scum" possibility, they are actually scum. They know that both of the players arguing are town, and they would like the lynch to fall on one of the two, so they make these sorts of "well it could be scum/town, town/scum..." sorts of statements, but they forget to say "scum/scum" because they are scum and they don't want to push it. Just a thought.
I think it's an interesting observation too, I just have no reason to believe it's accurate. Maybe he just didn't put scum/scum because it's the most easily disqualifiable scenario.
Wagon analysis! 7 on wagon, Jorbles was town.
We have six others on wagon. How many scum rode the known (to them) mislynch of a PR? 2? Hilariously, if the traitor isn't recruited, they don't know if they are on wagon together or not.
Off-wagon: Walrus, manda, Jimmmmm, faust, Morgrim
At least one scum was off-wagon, I'd say. Mathematically, easier to hit scum off-wagon today, I suppose,from an outsider's perspective, but from my own, up to 2 out of 4 on wagon with me were scum, so that's slightly higher chances there.
Anyone else with some wagon analysis?
Are you waiting for me to pull something straight from my Mean Girls performance, too?
Shall I go copy and paste things from LOTR1 and match them up with things you do here?
You also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
I think this makes you more likely to be town, though, since I don't think scum would make that mistake.
My guess is that it is 2 on, 1 off, yes. I could be wrong, and the scum team is you, manda, and Walrus. Actually, that sounds very possible. AND you remember my note about how it would be pretty awesome for a scum team to be able to stay all on or all off wagon. So perhaps you planned it?
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
Like I said before your ridiculousness, your missteps made you seem more likely town to me.
manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.
Vote: manda
Prodding your partner to post? Didn't select daychat, I see.
This is also a valid point, in my opinion. A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean. Scum wants to do this. They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.
Look, that's what you did.
Again, for the third time, I most recently said that you seemed MORE LIKELY TOWN to me. You are OMGUSing my slight town read on you? That makes no sense.
And Jimmmmm, why in the world are you trying to scum your way out of a town read? I really do not understand you.
I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?
Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting. Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative. You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.
This I agree with as well as the most recent interaction between ash and jimm in which jimm awkwardly pushed ash about wanting to "sweep things under the rug" which to me looked like jimm trying to make ash look scummy for something null.
vote: Jimm
This I agree with as well as the most recent interaction between ash and jimm in which jimm awkwardly pushed ash about wanting to "sweep things under the rug" which to me looked like jimm trying to make ash look scummy for something null.
vote: Jimm
Go back and read ash reminding me of his Townread on me and tell me that wasn't him trying to stop me from talking about him.
I guess it is because I feel like it would make no sense for them both to be scum. I do not by any means think it meanse they ouldn't be scum together. I jut doubt it.
I for one find it far more of a scum-tell when people say that arguments are likely scum/town, as most arguments are certainly town/town. So null tell here on mcmc because of it, because in this situation, I could definitely see either Jimmmmm or ash being scum.
Okay I have to post while it's still fresh in my mind.
Jimm, I really think is scum.
First off, this is a level of activity I've never seen from Jimm, or least not in recent memory. Jimm is usually town, he usually is pleasant, psuedo-lurking. He's very active here, and this questioning strategy, I've never seen from him. I've been on him since the beginning because of our exchange over me being considered an IC.
And... what was the rest of it... well, I think ash is town. As always. I think Jimm had a better argument there, and kept driving it home to score easy "win points" if that makes any sense.
Let's see, Jimm keeps trying to draw the circle wider (Teproc is too, by the way).
Oh! And yeah, his stance on the Morgrim thing raised major red flags. Seemed like a likely stance scum would have.
Vote: Jimm and I feel pretty good about it.
I guess it is because I feel like it would make no sense for them both to be scum. I do not by any means think it meanse they ouldn't be scum together. I jut doubt it.
I for one find it far more of a scum-tell when people say that arguments are likely scum/town, as most arguments are certainly town/town. So null tell here on mcmc because of it, because in this situation, I could definitely see either Jimmmmm or ash being scum.
Actually, that's not really true.
P(argument is town/town)=6/9*5/8=41,67%
P(argument is scum/town)=6/9*3/8+3/9*6/8=50%
Just saying.
Why is Jimmmmm's stance on the Morgrim thing scummy? I never really got that, because I pretty much shared Jimmmmm's sentiment there.
Okay right. I'm scummy. I could be scum. Whatever.
What do people think about ash?
Actually, that's not really true.
P(argument is town/town)=6/9*5/8=41,67%
P(argument is scum/town)=6/9*3/8+3/9*6/8=50%
Just saying.
Isn't that what I said? That any generic argument is most likely town/town?
Okay right. I'm scummy. I could be scum. Whatever.
What do people think about ash?
Actually, that's not really true.
P(argument is town/town)=6/9*5/8=41,67%
P(argument is scum/town)=6/9*3/8+3/9*6/8=50%
Just saying.
Isn't that what I said? That any generic argument is most likely town/town?
No, this is saying a generic argument (at our current game state and assuming the argument doesn't include me) is a little more likely to be scum/town than town/town.
Okay right. I'm scummy. I could be scum. Whatever.
What do people think about ash?
I think he's town. I mean, you'll just never persuade me, "Ash is not backing up his cases! He's retaliatory and OMGUS! He must be scum!" This is always town ashersky.
I mean, I actually have something of a bad feeling about him here, I don't think he's his quintessential self. A little off. Maybe you're fight WAS scum/scum!
Also, you just proved MY point. We have to analyze the wagons. We have to decide if scum is more likely on or off.Jimmmm points out that this seems to be Ashersky assuming that scum would not recruit the traitor. Ashersky's response is that "it was the general consensus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322180#msg322180)" that scum would not recruit the traitor. However, when I read D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318787#msg318787), I find Ashersky putting down recruit the traitor as one of the 3 scum options that he would choose. Also, 4 people select it as a reasonable scum choice. That is 1/3 of our players. Not really the "general consensus" that Ashersky makes it seem like it is. Plus, we know mafia chose at least one PR since morgrim flipped tracker. (well, I know. The rest depends on if you guys believe my claim) So I think it is entirely reasonable to think that scum may have recruited the traitor. Now, Faust was a little harsh to recruiting in his analysis by saying that "it didn't have many fans." In fact, it had just as many fans as Role Cop or JOAT. Each of these three had 4 votes. So basically I do find Ash a bit scummy for this.
You also forgot to take into account something key -- the scum team can't plan to be all together because one of them is scum all by his/her lonesome.
It is impossible for them to plan to be on/off wagon together, unless they recruited.
I think this makes you more likely to be town, though, since I don't think scum would make that mistake.
So I have just outlined in point 2 why I think Ash was on a crash course of scummy behavior in regards to discussing PRs, so what does scum do? Change the topic. You accuse Jimmmmm of being scummy because you find it "odd to suddenly know she was online, know she was viewing the thread, and be able to swoop in and vote her." Ash, have you never looked at the "who's online (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=who)" page? Have you never looked at the little thing in the top right of every topic that says "X members and Y guests are viewing this topic." Have you never been curious as to which members are viewing this topic? I know I have. So I go to "who's online" and it tells me what every member is doing on the forum at that time. You and Jimmmm were having a back-and-forth. Jimmmmm sees extra people viewing the thread. Goes to "who's online" to see who it is. Sees it is Manda. Wants to make sure everyone knows that she was viewing the thread but hadn't posted, which would be deserving of a vote if she hadn't posted. She does post, and he goes back to looking at you.Walrus at 28 seems really low. I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively).
Manda needs to step it up. Everyone else is basically fine.
And then you accuse me of singling manda out?
For a vote, yes.
Was the problem that I singled her out or that I voted for her?
You singled her out AND voted for her, but it wasn't for lurking. I pointed out that she lurked the most and needed to start contributing. You pointed out that you spied her here and didn't post.
It was odd to suddenly know she was online, know she was viewing the thread, and be able to swoop in and vote her.
It's the "ash is the type of person to do X" stuff that isn't cool. I was doing it to you too, at the time, in retorts, and so I stepped away (albeit angrily). Present the case. You aren't the first person with a mistaken scum read, you won't be the last.I do agree with Ashersky that Jimmmmm's original Ashersky vote made no logical sense (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322151#msg322151), and Ashersky could very well get frustrated by it. Getting super annoyed and having the frustration build to a breaking point, I can get it. But what I am most concerned about your back-and-forth with Jimmmmm was the interesting comment about scum definitely not having recruited the traitor. Then shifting the conversation away from that as soon as you saw the opportunity with the Manda thing.
I too thought the general consensus was that scum would recruit the traitor.
What does scum ashersky look like?
I too thought the general consensus was that scum would recruit the traitor.
Would NOT**** recruit the traitor.
I really think Jimm is scum, guys.Based on his level of activity, drawing a wider circle, and morgrim stance? Is that your argument that brings you to that conclusion or is it part gut feeling with the argument? Please expand on your argument. I see the point about his Morgrim stance, and if he is scum this won't be the first time I have defended scum, but I just don't see a really great argument against Jimmmm.
So the general consensus was that scum chose one PR, and that was daychat? Because if they chose any more than one, I see there being equal likelihood (according to what people chose) of them having JOAT, recruit, or role cop. In that order with JOAT being most likely, but that it would not be out of the question for them to recruit
Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - JOAT
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or Daychat, JOAT, Recruit
faust – Role Cop (+Daychat)
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - Daychat
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
I really think Jimm is scum, guys.
The only reason I brought it up is because Ashersky stated that he thought we were under the assumption that scum did not recruit the traitor. Yet he put that recruiting would be an option that he chose. So this seems to be a little contradictory to me. It might be nothing, but I want a good response from Ash as to why we are "assuming" that there is a traitor out there when I do not see any conclusive evidence that it was a majority opinion. Unless we took Fausts opinion as 100% true, which I am not willing to do. (no offense Faust, but you know as much about scum as the rest of us. ICs don't get special scum knowledge) I never saw any more discussion about PRs after that, only about fakeclaiming.So the general consensus was that scum chose one PR, and that was daychat? Because if they chose any more than one, I see there being equal likelihood (according to what people chose) of them having JOAT, recruit, or role cop. In that order with JOAT being most likely, but that it would not be out of the question for them to recruit
I thought we also agreed daychat wasn't likely? I'm just going to go find the summary post:Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - JOAT
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or Daychat, JOAT, Recruit
faust – Role Cop (+Daychat)
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - Daychat
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
So my memory was very wrong. You are right. 1 power (daychat) is "most likely", probably JOAT or rolecop after that if 2 power or if not daychat. But I'm not really sure how "useful" this is, honestly.
I really think Jimm is scum, guys.
Are you breadcrumbing a PR here? Because if you are, and have an incriminating result on Jimmmmm, I'd prefer if you claimed right away. That way, we can safely lynch Jimmmmm, e can protect you for another night, and if he doesn't because he's scum, well, there we have found our second scum and are in quite good shape.
(also because I still think Robz is scum).
I wanted to wait for Morgrim, but he will be VLA today, and discussion should move on. So here's the (almost) final list:
Voltaire - Daychat (+ X)
Walrus - JOAT
Robz - (Daychat)
Jimmmm - Role Cop (+ Recruit)
ashersky - None or Daychat, JOAT, Recruit
faust – Role Cop (+Daychat)
Jorbles - Daychat, JOAT
manda - Daychat
Teproc - Role Cop, JOAT
morgrim - ?
2.7 - Daychat, Recruit, Role Cop
mcmcsalot - (Daychat + Recruit)
Up to now, everyone ignored one important factor in the PR decision: scum, and only scum, knows how many PRs are out there. So once all PRs are outed (claimed or killed), they can safely fakeclaim one of the remaining roles. This is the reason I think scum wouldn't choose three powers, because it would strip them of this possibility.
So what to choose? Daychat and Recruiting seems a good combo, because having another person to talk to strengthens the Daychat option. But of course this makes the Goon Cop super strong, so it's probably not the best option. A Role Cop is a great addition, I think, because it allows for earlier fake claims and helps taking out the town PRs. And this is it, all I would choose as mafia powers. Maybe, with a newbie scum, I might consider Daychat additionally.
Now to the second part of this – what do the answers reveal about the setup and about who scum is?
Many people seem to think that Daychat is a strong option, so chances are mafia thought that too. Please treat this game as though mafia had Daychat. That means: if there's an exchange between two players, and in the end of it both seem more townie to you, read again. Try to find out if the whole thing could be staged. Voting patterns also need to be analyzed with this in mind.
We can porbably write off the Bulletproof, as it is considered the weakest power by everyone. Recruiting doesn't have a lot of fans, so we probably deal with a Traitor. That makes it harder to scumhunt effectively. But if we're lucky, scum accidentally shoots the Traitor.
Generally, most of us think that one or two powers are probably the best choice. So we're looking at three, maybe four town PRs. At latest after the third claim, any further claims should be handled with a healthy dose of scepticism. In fact, I propose a claiming plan: After we have our first PR outed (which is actually the second, because I am already outed), if anyone wants to claim, they first state the intent to do so. Then everyone else gets a chance to claim PR. We determine a claiming order somehow, and then all PRs fullclaim. This should make it harder for scum to fakeclaim.
Finally, what to make of people's power picks? Get in the head of scum for a moment. It doesn't matter much if you say the truth or not, but can you actually use this to manipulate town? Yes, you can! Make them believe there are lots of PRs out there, so that later a fakeclaim will look less suspicious. Because of that, slight FoS to all who took the 3 powers option.
I really think Jimm is scum, guys.
Are you breadcrumbing a PR here? Because if you are, and have an incriminating result on Jimmmmm, I'd prefer if you claimed right away. That way, we can safely lynch Jimmmmm, e can protect you for another night, and if he doesn't because he's scum, well, there we have found our second scum and are in quite good shape.
This is incredibly dangerous if there's a JOAT in the scum team. I want to FoS you for rolefishing, but your're the IC, so...
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
Did you want my answer?
Well obviously scum's not going to fake claim now, that would be pretty terrible for them.
we gain nothing from lynching morgrim. He has a 3/10 chance of flipping scum, just like almost everyone else. If we want to random lynch, he goes back in the pool. But we don't want to random lynch.
Well, if Morgrim is scum, he's not a Goon.
Halt. Cease. Desist.
The scum!morgrim narrative requires so many "what ifs". I have not seen anything more compelling than "this is how town!morgrim plays". This is the sort of insanity I expect, with a different flavor, sure, but still. Is this really the best way to deal with him?
I mean I do buy ash's narrative as plausible but 1. it's coming from ash 2. it almost never makes sense to lynch a claimed PR.
I was not thinking things through about Morgrim yesterday. I am quite fine with his lynch. If he flips town, it gives any other PRs out there more information to use in their night actions. And should he flip scum, which I now think is more likely, the same thing except we have one scum down on D1! I agree with what faust said - the wagon/interactions may matter more than his flip, which is darn useful in the first place.
Faust, the plan was a very good attempt at finding an elegant solution to the problem, but I believe we just have to accept the (small) risk that Morgrim is the real Tracker and lynch him.
There's three scum, and a very small lynch pool. Town knows they are town, you're an IC, e in my mind has a very believable claim (and actions), so my lynch pool (ignoring my reads!) is only 9 players, 3 of which are scum. That's before factoring in anything else. I have confidence in lynching Morgrim.
faust, what do you want to have happen before a lynch? I'm willing to vote morgrim but that runs the risk he self-hammers. With the exception of manda, I'm fine with the day ending.
HOWEVER, I would also like to recall something that yuma said in Game of Thrones, to the effect that it is natural to want to scumhunt the active posters Day 1, because they're the ones who have actually out out material to analyze. We definitely should have LALL'ed more in that game. So let's get a few more posts down and see who's still L'ing.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
I would say IC is the strongest town PR there is available in this game.
I think we should base our scumhunting on what's most likely the case here - that e is town. So let's consider the e wagon at peak.
2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)
When I voted for e, it was partly because I thought he acted scummy, but also partly because I was looking for reactions to a wagon with me on it. And what I take from this is: there are likely multiple scum off the e wagon. What I found odd is that after I voted e, no one jumped the wagon for quite some time, until ashersky's vote.
As scum, I would be wary to vote e as this stage: either he is scum (possibly the Traitor), then scum doesn't want to lynch one of their own D1. Or he's town. Well, every vote after mine would get heat D2 for jumping the easy mislynch once e flipped town. So scum would hold back. And given that there was a lot of holding back going on, there was probably scum among them.
I will do a reread of those off-wagon and post the results soon.
Good thinking. Well, Jorbles and mcmc look scummy there.
I'm ready for a hammer as well.
I've been mentally backing off my insistence on lynching Morgrim a little bit as I remember all those times I said, "He's just crazy, never scum." But, okay, he expects me to say that by now, doesn't it? So ultimately I think there is still just too strong a chance this was scum play... and if it wasn't scum play, this is the not a terrible lynch (we weren't going to get much out of our Tracker, anyway), and I think a decently informational Day 1.
OK, well I hate to do this, but I'm not going to get this done tonight. But I promised something, so let me throw down a vote at least:
Based on my preliminary reading, I am going to vote: mcmc. I felt like his presence was right in the lurk zone (where the scum in Game of Thrones eluded us, for example), along with a couple of questionable votes and unvotes--they seemed somehow safe yet arbitrary in a way that just felt scummy. So that's my #1 pick for now.
I don't mean to single you out mcmc--I hope to expand on this reasoning and provide reads for other players tomorrow. I also still have to reread the second half of the game.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
You don't give reasons here why your earlier stances on Morgrim are no longer valid. Why weren't they? And the whole "if he flips town, it gives other PRs more info for their night action" is just not a valid reason to lynch anyone, as I already explained.
From there on, you seem really convinced that Morgrim is scum:
What makes you so sure?
Then, short before the Day ends, you ask this:faust, what do you want to have happen before a lynch? I'm willing to vote morgrim but that runs the risk he self-hammers. With the exception of manda, I'm fine with the day ending.
But yet you don't wait until any of the things I wanted to have happen happened and just go ahead and hammer. Why did you even ask?
Because manda clearly wasn't coming back soon, a prod had to be issued. I was fine with the day ending, it was the day before deadline anyway. What were you expecting to get from Morgrim?
Because manda clearly wasn't coming back soon, a prod had to be issued. I was fine with the day ending, it was the day before deadline anyway. What were you expecting to get from Morgrim?
A reads list, for example. Having reads from confirmed town around is rather helpful I think.
Because manda clearly wasn't coming back soon, a prod had to be issued. I was fine with the day ending, it was the day before deadline anyway. What were you expecting to get from Morgrim?
A reads list, for example. Having reads from confirmed town around is rather helpful I think.
Obviously you can disagree, but...exactly how useful would those reads have been? In my opinion, useless.
Because manda clearly wasn't coming back soon, a prod had to be issued. I was fine with the day ending, it was the day before deadline anyway. What were you expecting to get from Morgrim?
A reads list, for example. Having reads from confirmed town around is rather helpful I think.
Obviously you can disagree, but...exactly how useful would those reads have been? In my opinion, useless.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
Now to Robz.
As already stated that I think scum!Robz is unlikely to not try to NK the IC. This is somewhat mitigated by this post:I would say IC is the strongest town PR there is available in this game.
which may mean that scum!Robz was trying to get me to think just that.
I never quite understood this post:I think we should base our scumhunting on what's most likely the case here - that e is town. So let's consider the e wagon at peak.
2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)
When I voted for e, it was partly because I thought he acted scummy, but also partly because I was looking for reactions to a wagon with me on it. And what I take from this is: there are likely multiple scum off the e wagon. What I found odd is that after I voted e, no one jumped the wagon for quite some time, until ashersky's vote.
As scum, I would be wary to vote e as this stage: either he is scum (possibly the Traitor), then scum doesn't want to lynch one of their own D1. Or he's town. Well, every vote after mine would get heat D2 for jumping the easy mislynch once e flipped town. So scum would hold back. And given that there was a lot of holding back going on, there was probably scum among them.
I will do a reread of those off-wagon and post the results soon.
Good thinking. Well, Jorbles and mcmc look scummy there.
Can you tell me what you were trying to say here?
Lastly, this post:I'm ready for a hammer as well.
I've been mentally backing off my insistence on lynching Morgrim a little bit as I remember all those times I said, "He's just crazy, never scum." But, okay, he expects me to say that by now, doesn't it? So ultimately I think there is still just too strong a chance this was scum play... and if it wasn't scum play, this is the not a terrible lynch (we weren't going to get much out of our Tracker, anyway), and I think a decently informational Day 1.
I don't think lynching a town PR D1 is ever "not terrible". This looks like scum!Robz preparing for Morgrim's town flip, justifying his support for the lynch before the flip.
I am also still awaiting an answer to my previous post. And an answer to Jimmmmm's question. Robz stated he was "confident-ish" in his ash reads, so this should be interesting.
One last point: Robz is tunneling Jimmmmm quite hard. I think that's something he would do as scum, he did it in M31.
I have a question I'd like every player to answer.
Based on the Jimmmmm vs ash fight (and anything else), in which order would you place the following, from most likely to least likely?
A) Both Town
B) Jimmmmm scum
C) ash scum
D) Both scum
faust, would you mind endorsing this question? You have a heck of a lot more pull than I do.
B, C, D, A
Thoughts...
Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
Walrus and Manda severely need to post more.
mcmc and Tep seem to be in the actilurker zone.
Everything else looks as one would expect.
Thoughts...
Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
Walrus and Manda severely need to post more.
mcmc and Tep seem to be in the actilurker zone.
Everything else looks as one would expect.
It's abnormal because he's scum. Go with the simple explanation!
Thoughts...
Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
Walrus and Manda severely need to post more.
mcmc and Tep seem to be in the actilurker zone.
Everything else looks as one would expect.
I don't always lurk when scum.
It's not just that town Jimm is a lurker, it's that his content is mild and unmemorable and inoffensive.
Here, you have been in the driver's seat, and you are raising questions like I've never seen from you before. Yo are different, AND you had the scummy reaction to the prospective Morgrim lynch.
Here, you have been in the driver's seat, and you are raising questions like I've never seen from you before. Yo are different, AND you had the scummy reaction to the prospective Morgrim lynch.
Don't you love playing a game in which you can promote doing something extremely anti-Town and then throw suspicion on someone who didn't want to do it?
What do you mean, what was I trying to say? I was trying to say what I said, that based on the analysis I was quoting, those ere the scummy people.
And Jimm, I really love THIS Jimm. I hope you're not scum. But I can't shake the evidence, man.
I am the Goon Cop.
Last Night I investigated ashersky.
He is a Goon.
Now this has a few ramifications. It means that scum chose at least one bonus. If e is really a Bodyguard, it means they chose at least two, one of which was recruiting the Traitor (since ash is a Goon). If we have any more PRs that means I managed to pick the one and only Goon and from here on out I'm basically a named VT.
Now I'm actually perfectly fine with not lynching ash Today and trying to find his partners instead, for a few reasons:
-ash is a Goon and therefore his non-Goon partner/s are a higher priority.
-Keeping ash alive will disincentive them from killing me since when you get my flip ash becomes confirmed scum.
-Lynching someone other than ash will at least narrow down my investigation pool in the event that there is still a Goon left for me to find.
Hi ash!
Now this has a few ramifications. It means that scum chose at least one bonus. If e is really a Bodyguard, it means they chose at least two, one of which was recruiting the Traitor (since ash is a Goon). If we have any more PRs that means I managed to pick the one and only Goon and from here on out I'm basically a named VT.
Now I'm actually perfectly fine with not lynching ash Today and trying to find his partners instead, for a few reasons:
-ash is a Goon and therefore his non-Goon partner/s are a higher priority.
-Keeping ash alive will disincentive them from killing me since when you get my flip ash becomes confirmed scum.
-Lynching someone other than ash will at least narrow down my investigation pool in the event that there is still a Goon left for me to find.
Also, scum slip here. No reason that "ash is a goon" means traitor recruited was selected. There are plenty of options to select (day talk + bulletproof) for example that leaves multiple goons. Remember, jimmmmm has to work the math to fit his lie. He can't shake his own knowledge, though.
Now this has a few ramifications. It means that scum chose at least one bonus. If e is really a Bodyguard, it means they chose at least two, one of which was recruiting the Traitor (since ash is a Goon). If we have any more PRs that means I managed to pick the one and only Goon and from here on out I'm basically a named VT.
Now I'm actually perfectly fine with not lynching ash Today and trying to find his partners instead, for a few reasons:
-ash is a Goon and therefore his non-Goon partner/s are a higher priority.
-Keeping ash alive will disincentive them from killing me since when you get my flip ash becomes confirmed scum.
-Lynching someone other than ash will at least narrow down my investigation pool in the event that there is still a Goon left for me to find.
Also, scum slip here. No reason that "ash is a goon" means traitor recruited was selected. There are plenty of options to select (day talk + bulletproof) for example that leaves multiple goons. Remember, jimmmmm has to work the math to fit his lie. He can't shake his own knowledge, though.
No scumslip. That was under "If e is really a Bodyguard". In which case you or your partners selected at least Two bonuses. If neither was Recruiting, there would not be any Goons. So either you have one scum PR and two Goons (one originally being the traitor) or two scum PRs and one traitor come Goon.
ash, why Roleblock me?
Dude, day talk + bulletproof. That's two goons and a traitor.
If we have any more PRs that means I managed to pick the one and only Goon and from here on out I'm basically a named VT.
Why cop me?
ash, why Roleblock me?
You've been off this game. I had a read on you D1. You were either scum, or doing a Robz trying to draw the NK as a VT.
Why cop me?
I really think Jimm is scum, guys.
Are you breadcrumbing a PR here? Because if you are, and have an incriminating result on Jimmmmm, I'd prefer if you claimed right away. That way, we can safely lynch Jimmmmm, e can protect you for another night, and if he doesn't because he's scum, well, there we have found our second scum and are in quite good shape.
I'm not sure Goon Cop is such a terrible fake claim. It has a chance of outing the actual Goon Cop, which may or may not be very desireable (depending on what mafia chose) and there's the possibility of a scum v scum ploy. I don't really believe that but I guess it's possible. Jimmmmm's claim is a little weird to me in many ways, which is why I'm interested as to his reasoning for claiming now.
ash, why Roleblock me?
You've been off this game. I had a read on you D1. You were either scum, or doing a Robz trying to draw the NK as a VT.
Why cop me?
Jimmmmm definitely was very acive and under suspicion D1. BUT - doesn't this make im a bad RB target? Even if he was scum, wouldn't he let his partner who was more under the radar do the NK?
I'm not sure Goon Cop is such a terrible fake claim. It has a chance of outing the actual Goon Cop, which may or may not be very desireable (depending on what mafia chose) and there's the possibility of a scum v scum ploy. I don't really believe that but I guess it's possible. Jimmmmm's claim is a little weird to me in many ways, which is why I'm interested as to his reasoning for claiming now.
Well yes, that's all possible, but even if his were he case, our best way to proceed is lynching ashersky, right? Then we can think about whether Jimmmmm is scum tomorrow.
Now I'm actually perfectly fine with not lynching ash Today and trying to find his partners instead, for a few reasons:
-ash is a Goon and therefore his non-Goon partner/s are a higher priority.
-Keeping ash alive will disincentive them from killing me since when you get my flip ash becomes confirmed scum.
-Lynching someone other than ash will at least narrow down my investigation pool in the event that there is still a Goon left for me to find.
I'm not sure Goon Cop is such a terrible fake claim. It has a chance of outing the actual Goon Cop, which may or may not be very desireable (depending on what mafia chose) and there's the possibility of a scum v scum ploy. I don't really believe that but I guess it's possible. Jimmmmm's claim is a little weird to me in many ways, which is why I'm interested as to his reasoning for claiming now.
Well yes, that's all possible, but even if his were he case, our best way to proceed is lynching ashersky, right? Then we can think about whether Jimmmmm is scum tomorrow.
Unless we're partners that planned this. (spoiler alert: we're not.) Then he sails off into the sunset.
If you haven't read LOTR1, I highly recommend it. That scum!Jimmmmm is resurrected here.
I'm not sure Goon Cop is such a terrible fake claim. It has a chance of outing the actual Goon Cop, which may or may not be very desireable (depending on what mafia chose) and there's the possibility of a scum v scum ploy. I don't really believe that but I guess it's possible. Jimmmmm's claim is a little weird to me in many ways, which is why I'm interested as to his reasoning for claiming now.
Well yes, that's all possible, but even if his were he case, our best way to proceed is lynching ashersky, right? Then we can think about whether Jimmmmm is scum tomorrow.
I'm not sure Goon Cop is such a terrible fake claim. It has a chance of outing the actual Goon Cop, which may or may not be very desireable (depending on what mafia chose) and there's the possibility of a scum v scum ploy. I don't really believe that but I guess it's possible. Jimmmmm's claim is a little weird to me in many ways, which is why I'm interested as to his reasoning for claiming now.
Well yes, that's all possible, but even if his were he case, our best way to proceed is lynching ashersky, right? Then we can think about whether Jimmmmm is scum tomorrow.
Probably. Ash's counterclaim is also not convincing at all to me, so lyching him seems fine. But I'm intrigued by Jimmmm's claim, and not in a good way.
Well, ok, have you been in this situation before so that I can look it up and compare ? I'm wary of meta defenses for scummy things, but I guess I might as well get informed.
Now I'm actually perfectly fine with not lynching ash Today and trying to find his partners instead, for a few reasons:
-ash is a Goon and therefore his non-Goon partner/s are a higher priority.
-Keeping ash alive will disincentive them from killing me since when you get my flip ash becomes confirmed scum.
-Lynching someone other than ash will at least narrow down my investigation pool in the event that there is still a Goon left for me to find.
This makes Jimmmmm more likely scum actually. You understand that we have to lynch ash now because we don't know if you're telling the ruth oherwise, right?
- his claim can not be confirmed unless we have a night without NK.
- his claim can not be confirmed unless we have a night without NK.
Though if he is scum that could be his team no-killing to try to make his claim more believable.
I could actually see this being a scum/scum gambit since it involves ashersky...and Jimmmmm was the scummier of the two in my book.
I don't think we should lynch Jimmmmm. We already lynched a PR for pretty similar reasons, remember ? I'm scared that this is Morgrim all over again (I mean, Jimmmmm's claim is a lot saner than Morgrim's obviously, but there still are similarities).
I think, although he probably shouldn't have claimed at this point, his claim does get him some Town points. If he is scum, Town probably don't have many PRs, since if they do that would be too great a risk to take.
Hey people: It was a joke! ashersky was joking. We here at f.ds do that sometimes. Maybe it was scummy joking, I don't know. We do that too. But it was a joke.
- his claim can not be confirmed unless we have a night without NK.
Though if he is scum that could be his team no-killing to try to make his claim more believable.
I could actually see this being a scum/scum gambit since it involves ashersky...and Jimmmmm was the scummier of the two in my book.
He hedged badly on a free PR lynch on D1
Crazy, crazy, crazy. Walrus, who did you target last night?
Wait. No. Stop. All wrong.
I am the real roleblocker. I targeted Robz N1.
vote: ashersky
Nice try ash.
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.
unvote. Does it? No scenario where Walrus is covering for Jimmmmm?
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.
unvote. Does it? No scenario where Walrus is covering for Jimmmmm?
The scenario where two scum are outed after ash flips?
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.
unvote. Does it? No scenario where Walrus is covering for Jimmmmm?
The scenario where two scum are outed after ash flips?
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.
unvote. Does it? No scenario where Walrus is covering for Jimmmmm?
The scenario where two scum are outed after ash flips?
Right right.
vote: ashersky
The Jorbles NK makes more sense now, with jimmmmm confirmed as scum. Separate on wagons, no real interaction. Good choice for him specifically.
Daychat for sure. Man, daychat would be awesome. It's a strong power. As mentioned, if I was scum, I'd definitely go full on or zero, as much for wifom purposes as anything else. So Daychat/Joat/Recruit? BP is LAME-O and I see no use for a Role Cop whatsoever. Otherwise, roll with two goons.
If he were truly the cop he should be playing his typical reserved self, to maximize his chances of living long. And Jimm usually lives a long time for precisely this reason. If you're a town PR, you picked the really wrong time to switch up your meta!
Jimmmmm's claim makes a lot of sense in the light of this:I really think Jimm is scum, guys.
Are you breadcrumbing a PR here? Because if you are, and have an incriminating result on Jimmmmm, I'd prefer if you claimed right away. That way, we can safely lynch Jimmmmm, e can protect you for another night, and if he doesn't because he's scum, well, there we have found our second scum and are in quite good shape.
He did his question in the post after that, which means he decided to claim immediately after I urged the Goon Cop to claim.
You know what? In this situation, it would be really neat if we still had a Tracker...
Right now, I would say ashersky has a 0% chance of flipping town (see what I did there?). There is no need to lynch him now, let's try and find the scum PR instead.
So, here's Jimmmmm's reread:
I'll just colllect everything noteable and give post numbers, since I don't want to quote all of it. In the beginning, we have the famous refusal to give Robz town points (#167). Then, early on, he has an exchange with ashersky (around #206). He then accuses mcmc of being vague (#245) and votes for him (#381). Note that he never says that he is no longer suspicious of mcmc.
During the e discussion, he defends e (#459, #491) and then is the first to vote Jorbles (#493). He then again has a conversation with ashersky (around #503). The next post, after e's claim, is interesting enough to quote it:I think, although he probably shouldn't have claimed at this point, his claim does get him some Town points. If he is scum, Town probably don't have many PRs, since if they do that would be too great a risk to take.
This could be PR breadcrumbing (if he is scum, town doesn't have many PRs. I have a PR, so e is more likely town), but it's far from clear.
He is then suspicious of how quickly the Jorbles wagon grew (#536) and votes manda for her scummy Jorbles vote (#587). What follows, his whole opposition to the Morgrim wagon, is already well-discussed.
Now something big: At the start of D2, he posts this:Hey people: It was a joke! ashersky was joking. We here at f.ds do that sometimes. Maybe it was scummy joking, I don't know. We do that too. But it was a joke.
Right now, I would say ashersky has a 0% chance of flipping town (see what I did there?). There is no need to lynch him now, let's try and find the scum PR instead.
So, here's Jimmmmm's reread:
I'll just colllect everything noteable and give post numbers, since I don't want to quote all of it. In the beginning, we have the famous refusal to give Robz town points (#167). Then, early on, he has an exchange with ashersky (around #206). He then accuses mcmc of being vague (#245) and votes for him (#381). Note that he never says that he is no longer suspicious of mcmc.
During the e discussion, he defends e (#459, #491) and then is the first to vote Jorbles (#493). He then again has a conversation with ashersky (around #503). The next post, after e's claim, is interesting enough to quote it:I think, although he probably shouldn't have claimed at this point, his claim does get him some Town points. If he is scum, Town probably don't have many PRs, since if they do that would be too great a risk to take.
This could be PR breadcrumbing (if he is scum, town doesn't have many PRs. I have a PR, so e is more likely town), but it's far from clear.
He is then suspicious of how quickly the Jorbles wagon grew (#536) and votes manda for her scummy Jorbles vote (#587). What follows, his whole opposition to the Morgrim wagon, is already well-discussed.
Now something big: At the start of D2, he posts this:Hey people: It was a joke! ashersky was joking. We here at f.ds do that sometimes. Maybe it was scummy joking, I don't know. We do that too. But it was a joke.
By that time, according to his claim, he already knew that ashersky was scum. Why defend known scum?
Right now, I would say ashersky has a 0% chance of flipping town (see what I did there?). There is no need to lynch him now, let's try and find the scum PR instead.
Do you mean try to find his partners in-game today and lynch ash at the end of it, or do you mean lynch someone else today?
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Daychat for sure. Man, daychat would be awesome. It's a strong power. As mentioned, if I was scum, I'd definitely go full on or zero, as much for wifom purposes as anything else. So Daychat/Joat/Recruit? BP is LAME-O and I see no use for a Role Cop whatsoever. Otherwise, roll with two goons.
How much you want to bet ash's team took daychat/JOAT/recruit? He did a "claim reality" thing in the latest RMM game.
Right now, I would say ashersky has a 0% chance of flipping town (see what I did there?). There is no need to lynch him now, let's try and find the scum PR instead.
Do you mean try to find his partners in-game today and lynch ash at the end of it, or do you mean lynch someone else today?
I mean lynching someone else today. We can lynch ashersky when we're at LyLo. He's only a Goon, after all.
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Right now, I would say ashersky has a 0% chance of flipping town (see what I did there?). There is no need to lynch him now, let's try and find the scum PR instead.
Do you mean try to find his partners in-game today and lynch ash at the end of it, or do you mean lynch someone else today?
I mean lynching someone else today. We can lynch ashersky when we're at LyLo. He's only a Goon, after all.
I think this is a bad idea. I mean, if Walrus and Jimm knew we would do that, then their plan would have actually made sense and they could be the scum.
I think I would rather have ash dead and absolutely confirmed as scum, than you still alive.
Most scummy to least scummy:
mcmcsalot
Robz
manda
Teproc
Voltaire
Admittedly I have not paid much attention to Teproc or Volt. Volt gets to be at the bottom because I think he's been fairly active and nothing has jumped out at me as scummy from him.
I think I would rather have ash dead and absolutely confirmed as scum, than you still alive.
This.
I think I would rather have ash dead and absolutely confirmed as scum, than you still alive.
Well it's unexpected except that Jimmmmm clearly had that plan when he claimed, scum or not. So it is actually very much expected if scum, you know, reads the thread.
Well it's unexpected except that Jimmmmm clearly had that plan when he claimed, scum or not. So it is actually very much expected if scum, you know, reads the thread.
I never actually expected we would lynch someone other than me or ash Today. Keeping ash alive probably helps me do my job better (if there's still a job for me to do), so that would be nice. And it would be nice if everyone would believe me and we would operate under the assumption that ash is a Goon. Obviously no one really trusts me enough to do that, which is fair enough, so it's best to lynch ash, and then operate under the knowledge that he's a Goon.
Well it's unexpected except that Jimmmmm clearly had that plan when he claimed, scum or not. So it is actually very much expected if scum, you know, reads the thread.
I never actually expected we would lynch someone other than me or ash Today. Keeping ash alive probably helps me do my job better (if there's still a job for me to do), so that would be nice. And it would be nice if everyone would believe me and we would operate under the assumption that ash is a Goon. Obviously no one really trusts me enough to do that, which is fair enough, so it's best to lynch ash, and then operate under the knowledge that he's a Goon.
Huh ? If you didn't expect it, why did you try to argue for it ? I mean I understand how it's beneficial for you but you thought you had a chance to convince us, otherwise you wouldn't have said to lynch someone else first in your initial claim, right ?
In any case, yes, we need to lynch ash today, that is pretty obvious.
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
reading....reading....getting more convinced that Jimmmm is scum. Teproc comes out uncomfortable with both claims (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325110#msg325110), but lands on voting Ash (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325192#msg325192) after Voltaire puts forward a great case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325171#msg325171) for why lynching Jimmmm is the best option for the lynch: "Ok. I like the idea of lynching Jimmmm and the conclusions that we are drawing from it. Teproc seems scummy though for voting Ash after a clear case for why the Jimmmmm lynch is better."
Walrus counterclaims (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325193#msg325193): "That is a lot of PRs for one day. And oh by the way, this makes Teproc look extremely towny for seeing through Ashersky's fakeclaim"
Now you're making my head hurt. Trying to analyze this. These are the claims:
faust - IC
Morgrim - Tracker
e - Bodyguard
Jimmmmm - Goon Cop
ashersky - Roleblocker
Walrus - Roleblocker
Possible scenarios:
[1/2 edited out because of their impossibility/improbability because I am the bodyguard]
3. scum chose 2 powers.
In that case, e's claim would have been quite dangerous as scum (50% chance of being counterclaimed). So I'm inclined to trust e's claim. Then two other claims must be false. Who is telling the truth here? Definitely not ashersky. Jimmmmm is possible, with Walrus trying to grab towncred by lynching his partner. If Walrus was town here, I don't think Jimmmm and ash would have pulled this knowing one PR is still out there. So yes, in this case Jimmmmm has to be the one to tell the truth.
4. scum chose 3 powers
This means we probably have either one fakeclaim and ashersky is lying or one PR still unclaimed and the scenario of 3.
My hesitant town read came from the fact that I roleblocked Jimmmmm last night and a kill still happened. That made him at least slightly less likely to be scum in my opinion, but not enough to clear him.A roleblocker doesn't actually stop a night kill, does it? My reading about roleblockers on MafiaWiki (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker#Town) seem to show that they do not stop a kill unless that person is the very last member of the mafia? It might stop a JOAT from using strongman, but the kill would still happen because of the other members of the mafia. But if that is the case wouldn't Ash already know because he is a vet? Confusing to me.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Roleblocker. You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a player. They will be prevented from performing any actions for the night.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
Welcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Mafia JOAT. You have the following abilities:
- Once during any night you may use a ninja kill. This kill will be unable to be tracked.
Once during any night you may use a strongman kill. This kill will unable to be blocked by any method.
It does.QuoteWelcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Roleblocker. You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a [single] player. They will be prevented from performing any actions for the night.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
(quoted from the OP)
if the Mafia's kill goes through, whoever was blocked that Night isn't the last Mafioso
And I'm fairly certain the strongman trumps the Roleblocker. Again, from the OP :yeah, you are correct there. only a hider and commuter (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strongman) are safe from strongman, and we have neither of these.QuoteWelcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Mafia JOAT. You have the following abilities:
- Once during any night you may use a ninja kill. This kill will be unable to be tracked.
Once during any night you may use a strongman kill. This kill will unable to be blocked by any method.
It does.QuoteWelcome to Mafia and the Chocolate Factory, X. You are the Roleblocker. You have the following abilities:
Each night you may target a [single] player. They will be prevented from performing any actions for the night.
Please confirm via PM by stating your role.
(quoted from the OP)
you roleblock one scum. there are two more scum out there. I could be totally off on this, but this is from MafiaWiki on roleblockers (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker#Town). Seems to imply that kills will continue until one scum is left.Quoteif the Mafia's kill goes through, whoever was blocked that Night isn't the last Mafioso
There were multiple scum alive on N1. If I had targeted the scum member who had performed the kill, and the kill was not strongman, it would not have gone through.Exactly. I assumed you would know the setup and how the NKs work. Which is why I am confused as to why you gave Jimmmmm town points because the NK went through. You were just assuming that he would be the scum who performed the NK? scum can't have multiple people say "I want to kill that person tonight" and as long as one of them is not roleblocked the kill will go through? So why did a NK going through make Jimmmmmm slightly less scummy to you?
I don't see hwo you are confused here. But you should know I'm not. I've played/modded enough games here to know how a roleblocker works.
Jimmmmm was either the strongman killer on N1, or he did not perform the kill.
There were multiple scum alive on N1. If I had targeted the scum member who had performed the kill, and the kill was not strongman, it would not have gone through.Exactly. I assumed you would know the setup and how the NKs work. Which is why I am confused as to why you gave Jimmmmm town points because the NK went through. You were just assuming that he would be the scum who performed the NK? scum can't have multiple people say "I want to kill that person tonight" and as long as one of them is not roleblocked the kill will go through? So why did a NK going through make Jimmmmmm slightly less scummy to you?
I don't see hwo you are confused here. But you should know I'm not. I've played/modded enough games here to know how a roleblocker works.
Jimmmmm was either the strongman killer on N1, or he did not perform the kill.
ok. You are correct. Mathematically. But it is not by such a huge percentage that would influence me in thinking he is even slightly more towny. I just found out interesting that you would follow this line of reasoning.There were multiple scum alive on N1. If I had targeted the scum member who had performed the kill, and the kill was not strongman, it would not have gone through.Exactly. I assumed you would know the setup and how the NKs work. Which is why I am confused as to why you gave Jimmmmm town points because the NK went through. You were just assuming that he would be the scum who performed the NK? scum can't have multiple people say "I want to kill that person tonight" and as long as one of them is not roleblocked the kill will go through? So why did a NK going through make Jimmmmmm slightly less scummy to you?
I don't see hwo you are confused here. But you should know I'm not. I've played/modded enough games here to know how a roleblocker works.
Jimmmmm was either the strongman killer on N1, or he did not perform the kill.
Because it proved he did NOT kill anyone. That makes his less likely to be scum than, say, the person who did the kill. I don't see how you cannot understand this.
I don't make ICs. Even if there was no kill at all, it wouldn't have made Jimmmmm 100% scum, because they could have shot their traitor or whatever. But a blocked Jimmmmm not stopping the kill meant that someone other than Jimmmmm is scum. That reduced the chances of Jimmmmm being scum by some percentage.
Jimmmmm claims Goon Cop (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325071#msg325071), and accuses Ash of being scum: "Ok, that is reasonable. Seems like a really early claim though. Doesn't feel quite right but lets see what happens."
reading....reading....getting more convinced that Jimmmm is scum.
Caught up. Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling. They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.
Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days. When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched. They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this
They must have know the setup was 4 PRs. They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3. It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.
Well played, scum. You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.
Ok. Ash is correct in that if he is town, it will take us quite some time to lynch our way through scum. But let's look at the situation
Lynch ash (town), town NK
8 alive 3 scum
lynch Jimmmmm, town NK
6 alive. 2 scum
Lynch Walrus, town NK
4 alive 1 scum
We will have to find the remaining scum in a 3v1 scenario.
Now, if only 1/3 of Jimmmmm, Walrus, Ashersky is scum, then the situation I describe above ends in a scum win.
Lynch Ash (town), town NK
8 alive, 3 scum
Lynch Jimmmm (or Walrus) (town), town NK
6 alive, 3 scum
Scum win
Ok. Ash is correct in that if he is town, it will take us quite some time to lynch our way through scum. But let's look at the situation
Lynch ash (town), town NK
8 alive 3 scum
lynch Jimmmmm, town NK
6 alive. 2 scum
Lynch Walrus, town NK
4 alive 1 scum
We will have to find the remaining scum in a 3v1 scenario.
Now, if only 1/3 of Jimmmmm, Walrus, Ashersky is scum, then the situation I describe above ends in a scum win.
Lynch Ash (town), town NK
8 alive, 3 scum
Lynch Jimmmm (or Walrus) (town), town NK
6 alive, 3 scum
Scum win
If ash is Town then both Walrus and I are scum. 100%. The situation you describe is equivalent to the second best case scenario, ie best case unless we lynch all three scum in the next three Days.
Could you tell us your third? That'd be helpful.
Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".
Could you tell us your third? That'd be helpful.
Only if you tell us your other two.
Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".
Man, this is so scummy. Sounds like really annoyed scum for not being able to overcome "crazy ash" meta problems. It's like "thank god my partner counterclaimed to make sure we could win out over crazy meta considerations...
Could you tell us your third? That'd be helpful.
Only if you tell us your other two.
Scumslip?
Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".
Man, this is so scummy. Sounds like really annoyed scum for not being able to overcome "crazy ash" meta problems. It's like "thank god my partner counterclaimed to make sure we could win out over crazy meta considerations...
In fact, I can't let this go. It is so much of a "my partner counterclaimed town so really, you need to believe us" argument that it's crazy.
Man, so so so so scummy.
Caught up. Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling. They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.
Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days. When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched. They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this
They must have know the setup was 4 PRs. They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3. It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.
Well played, scum. You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.
This post is rubbish (in a game sense, not a personal sense). Scum "wins" a mislynch and 2 NKs for outing two of their three? Ridiculous. If you were Town you'd have self-voted already, quite happy to sacrifice yourself to catch two scum.
Caught up. Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling. They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.
Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days. When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched. They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this
They must have know the setup was 4 PRs. They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3. It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.
Well played, scum. You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.
This post is rubbish (in a game sense, not a personal sense). Scum "wins" a mislynch and 2 NKs for outing two of their three? Ridiculous. If you were Town you'd have self-voted already, quite happy to sacrifice yourself to catch two scum.
This argument applies to you, no?
Why haven't you self-voted to catch the two scum? Isn't it very possible walrus claims the same as his scum partner for town cred post flip? If you think I'm scum, why not consider how easy it would be for a scum partner to counterclaim me for cred?
You are playing a scummy game, and everything in your play says you are doing and saying things only for your own best interest, not the town's. That is pure scum play.
The late and convenient fake claim, your strained reasons for the targeting of me (such an easy frame), the odd, off attitude you've been taking all game and especially D2 when you decided to use this gambit (the wagon analysis set piece you used was probably your "go" signal).
Amazing play, man. It's vintage asherscum, actually. You've learned well. But you know town!ash, and you know this is it. The same way other vets who have played in many games with he just know my alignment, you know.
iPad posting so NK fancy quotes.
You and walrus are getting away with it. That makes it amazing. The fact that you ask in such a smarmy way confirms that you know you are pulling off what will go down as the greatest scum gambit in f.ds history.
Think about it. When I flip town RB, walrus becomes suspect #1. But by then, you taken out the tracker and the Roleblocker, killed off a VT, and probably the Bodyguard tonight. That leaves just the IC vs. a full scum team.
Day 3 is spent discussing Walrus, ending (I hope!) in his lynch. But what about scum partner Jimmmmm? What about the anonymous third partner? You are still smooth sailing, and killing IZc on N3 takes out your only real opposition.
It's 5 vs 3 on D3. It's 4 vs 2 on D4. That is pretty amazing. Even if you can't rogue your way out of a lynch on D4, it's mylo on D5. If you do argue your way out of a lynch on D4 (and you laid out that foundation today with the "let scum live so we can find the partner" speech -- that was never meant for me, as town, it was meant for you on a future day), it's a scum win.
You are playing an awesome scum game. Like I've said, this is reminiscent of LOTR1 dragon Jimmmmm. Just masterful. It's the "so crazy, no way scum do it" defense.
On self-votes, I don't know if you have. But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote. If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?
As for your scummy behavior and self-serving attitude, I'm not going to go quote all your posts for you.
As for your scummy behavior and self-serving attitude, I'm not going to go quote all your posts for you.
Refusing to even put in the effort to back up what you're saying? If you've given up why are you still posting?
On self-votes, I don't know if you have. But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote. If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?
Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.
You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!
You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!
Nope. You're scum. I'm a Cop. You're caught.
On self-votes, I don't know if you have. But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote. If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?
Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.
You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!
I believe you both would have been POE candidates today. You were both already under pressure early in the game. You had to try something, and this fake claim plan was it. It is awesome. Ballsy. Bravo for trying.
Getting caught out on a fake claim is part of fake claiming. You don't ever expect to survive it. So getting 3 guaranteed town kills in exchange for losing possibly two of three scum partners in the mid game is acceptable.
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
On self-votes, I don't know if you have. But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote. If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?
Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.
You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!
I mean, I said that if you were Town what you would do is self-vote knowing that it will catch two scum. That's your Town meta.
You said that I said that optimal play is for a PR to self-vote. That's just a bold-face lie.
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
I believe you both would have been POE candidates today. You were both already under pressure early in the game. You had to try something, and this fake claim plan was it. It is awesome. Ballsy. Bravo for trying.
Getting caught out on a fake claim is part of fake claiming. You don't ever expect to survive it. So getting 3 guaranteed town kills in exchange for losing possibly two of three scum partners in the mid game is acceptable.
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
So you're saying that me/Walrus/X thought we were so screwed that we would be the next three lynches?
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
Nope. I've double, triple, quadruple checked my result PM. It mentions your name, and the word "Goon" in bold without negation.
If you are Town, I am scum. I'll put that on the record:
If ashersky flips Town I will self-vote immediately the next Day and never post in this game again.
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
Nope. I've double, triple, quadruple checked my result PM. It mentions your name, and the word "Goon" in bold without negation.
If you are Town, I am scum. I'll put that on the record:
If ashersky flips Town I will self-vote immediately the next Day and never post in this game again.
Easy to say now. Hard to believe you'd follow through.
On self-votes, I don't know if you have. But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote. If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?
Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.
You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!
I mean, I said that if you were Town what you would do is self-vote knowing that it will catch two scum. That's your Town meta.
You said that I said that optimal play is for a PR to self-vote. That's just a bold-face lie.
Go read your post again. You said self lyching catches two scum. Is that not optimal? I made that leapt of logic from your post.
Of course, you don't actually think catching two scum is optimal, because you are scum.
I believe you both would have been POE candidates today. You were both already under pressure early in the game. You had to try something, and this fake claim plan was it. It is awesome. Ballsy. Bravo for trying.
Getting caught out on a fake claim is part of fake claiming. You don't ever expect to survive it. So getting 3 guaranteed town kills in exchange for losing possibly two of three scum partners in the mid game is acceptable.
You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town. Misunderstood results, role, etc. Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.
So you're saying that me/Walrus/X thought we were so screwed that we would be the next three lynches?
There's your boldface lie. When did I say screwed? Or so screwed? Or that you'd be the next three lynches?
You were both under enough pressure that it was worth the gambit. And it is paying off for you, if you can get this mislynch through. If you get the rest of town to lynch me, all you need is your third to stay safe and it's a guaranteed win for you.
Everything ashersky would make me even more sure that he is scum, if I wasn't already 100% sure. There's no use in arguing with him, Jimmmmm. It only takes away the attention from the topics we should be discussing.
Eek. Ahhh. What to think. I was pretty convinced ash had fake claimed as I was skimming it but now I'm just not sure.
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmc
Robz
manda
mcmcsalot
Voltaire
Teproc
Voltaire
manda
mcmcsalot
Robz
Haven't really had time to reevaluate after the claims though.
Can we get a prod on mcmc?
Everything ashersky would make me even more sure that he is scum, if I wasn't already 100% sure. There's no use in arguing with him, Jimmmmm. It only takes away the attention from the topics we should be discussing.
While we wait for Jimmmmm to show up and tell us more, I'll say that I agree with 2.7 that I think Walrus' claim has a pretty good chance of being fake and planned through daychat with ash. Being the last claim means it can have been done with knowledge that there isn't anyone left to counterclaim, and I also happen to think Walrus is scummy regardless (see my vote for him on day 2).at the end of D2 I thought walrus's claim was true and that scum would NK a roleblocker. Since they did not, a fake claim by walrus is not impossible. I don't quite know what to think about walrus right now since I am still alive. (had I died I would be posting in the spectator QT saying he is town) I just wanted to throw out the fake claim possibility to help stimulate discussion.
What I'm struggling to figure out is what faust's death means with regard to 2.7's claim. Why did you protect Walrus rather than Jimmmmm, given that you seem to find Walrus' claim scummier ?
Looking back, protecting jimmmm might have been better. Either way, I am surprised by the NK one again. Jimmmm or walrus were the obvious targets, yet they target Faust. Scum trying to work towards a D3 PR mislynch?I should say, if both jimmm and walrus's claims are true, they are the obvious targets. Much more dangerous than an IC.
I have a scum narrative on walrus. Here is one on Robz:
Clever to wait until N2 to kill the IC. You knew I would bodyguard him N1, so you just kill a VT, maybe getting lucky and hitting a PR. Now,somesince you have daychat, you get ash to claim a useful PR, putting the real PR, who you know is more powerful than the IC, who you hope I will protect. It is now a good opportunity to NK Faust. Either you eliminate any protection walrus can have on later nights, or you are perfectly set up to try to mislynch me.
I know, a little OMGUS feel to this case, but does anyone doubt that if someone were to try to pull this off, it would be a robz/ash scum team
Tough work for e to work out who to protect Tonight if he's Town.jimmm being scum trying to manipulate me? Because I should have no doubt about protecting Faust according to you, and it is so obvious to everyone
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.you seem like you really believed walrus here. Explain to me why a confirmed IC is so much better than someone who is virtually an IC by merit of his claim? The only IC experience I have had was Voltaire in toy story, and narrowing the lynch pool did not help us lynch anyone correctly there. I just don't see IC being as powerful as you make it out to be. Please illuminate me, as I apparently made an egregious error.
Thanks, Walrus. Well, it has to be ash, then.you seem like you really believed walrus here. Explain to me why a confirmed IC is so much better than someone who is virtually an IC by merit of his claim? The only IC experience I have had was Voltaire in toy story, and narrowing the lynch pool did not help us lynch anyone correctly there. I just don't see IC being as powerful as you make it out to be. Please illuminate me, as I apparently made an egregious error.
Yeah, Walrus is certainly not an IC, although at this stage I'm very against lynching him. If he turns out to be scum I wouldn't be shocked, but I would be quite surprised.
Yeah, Walrus is certainly not an IC, although at this stage I'm very against lynching him. If he turns out to be scum I wouldn't be shocked, but I would be quite surprised.
The reason it would surprise me is that his counterclaim got ash lynched, when you would have been lynched instead. That's truly bizarre play from a partner.
Yeah, Walrus is certainly not an IC, although at this stage I'm very against lynching him. If he turns out to be scum I wouldn't be shocked, but I would be quite surprised.
The reason it would surprise me is that his counterclaim got ash lynched, when you would have been lynched instead. That's truly bizarre play from a partner.
My thoughts exactly. Of course, that could be exactly what we're supposed to think.
What if I was scum as well?
Just about to board. My final thought for now is that e's claim should give him more Towncred than others because it came early. If he knew that there were 2 other Town PRs out there, the chances of being counterclaimed are pretty high.
He claimed Bodyguard on Day 1, right?
I don't actually remember why he did. Were we going to lynch him?
2.7, why did you claim BG?
Ok. As much as I would love to fight this case against me, I think it will end in a big waste of time.
1) it is too easy for scum to come out against me now. (I wish Faust had saved his vote longer)
A) since this is the case, I do not know that any additional people coming against me will gain us any new knowledge.
2) we want to avoid a mislynch.
3) I am a mislynch
4) since I am the bodyguard.
As I said, and especially since I am new, I am curious to see if I would have been able to fend off the lynch without a claim. But that is not in the best interest of town, especially since I think town believe very strongly that I am scum.
I will bodyguard Faust. If we both survive the night it is because scum think they can mislynch me later. I might be super early on this claim, but I have never done this kind of thing before so forgive me and maybe explain when an optimal time for a claim would have been. I mean, given my role, I would probably have died tonight anyway (even without the scummy [i mean jokey reactions-i like to think of my play as more noob town than scummy] play that I have done today), so might as well claim now.
The fact that faust died and you immediately begun spinning a yarn about why walrus was both more important to protect and also still possibly scum, and you did this immediately, right off the bat--a quintessential scum move to get all your pre-planned facts out in the open ASAP.Ok. You are right about this coming off a little scummy. I did clarify here a bit:
at the end of D2 I thought walrus's claim was true and that scum would NK a roleblocker. Since they did not, a fake claim by walrus is not impossible. I don't quite know what to think about walrus right now since I am still alive. (had I died I would be posting in the spectator QT saying he is town) I just wanted to throw out the fake claim possibility to help stimulate discussion.I was surprised by the NK. I thought they would take out the PR that was the biggest threat to them, which would be Walrus in my opinion because he has the potential to block a NK. So I was immediately mildly suspicious, and threw out a situation where it seems plausible that walrus is scum. I do not necessarily even believe my case, I just was putting some thoughts down to get a reaction.
At LAX. Little time. Teproc is not a Goon.Just to mod-confirm because it is important: If mafia is JOAT or role cop and gets investigated by the goon cop, will the result be "Goon", "Not a Goon" or "No Result"?
- Goon Cop - returns results of Goon, Not Goon or no result regardless of alignment.
At LAX. Little time. Teproc is not a Goon.Ok. So if we believe Jimmmmm's claim, which I think is a pretty solid claim, then Teproc is either a VT, JOAT, role cop, or traitor. Since Ash flipped regular goon, it really hurts the goon cop's ability because scum picked so many PRs. It is entirely conceivable that scum did not choose to NK Jimmmmm because they knew that it was impossible for him to give a result. (say they picked daytalk, JOAT, and (bulletproof or role cop)). Picking Bulletproof or role cop is more likely given the fact that it is very possible that they chose 3 PRs. I think Jimmmmm's result does lower any suspicion on Teproc, but is nothing that I would give a day pass for.
I think Walrus has to be town regardless.
We were all on board for lynching Jimm before ash, weren't we? Weren't we at least strongly leaning that way? walrus's claim made ash the lynch for certain.
Mafia probably spared him to push a case they mistakenly thought would have merit. Nope, I'm not fooled.
Killing the IC is arguably more important anyway. Walrus COULD be scum, and would engender suspicion if he lived. Faust is more important to kill, because all cases against him are automatically false.
I no longer believe 2.7's claim. We needed our IC, you didn't protect him, and he died? Obvscum.
Vote: 2.7
Scum would never pick Bulletproof, I don't really know why it's in the setup to be honest.
He claimed at L-2 on day 1, before Morgrim did, IIRC.
I see why you believe Walrus' claim Robz, but I simply don't agree with your premise, which is that Jimmmmm would have been lynched if Walrus hadn't stepped in. Probably because I still don't understand why you (and Voltaire and faust) wanted to lynch him first, that still makes no sense to me. I believe he had 3 votes on him when Walrus stepped in ?
I'm having a hard time believing scum took 3 powers. I mean, maybe they did, but that seems very risky because it makes them super weak to the Goon Cop, who'd have a very high likelihood to exist if they did that. And I'm much more inclined to believe 2.7's and Jimmmm's claims because I have a town reads on them regardless, whereas I think Walrus has legitimately been scummy this game. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
At LAX. Little time. Teproc is not a Goon.Ok. So if we believe Jimmmmm's claim, which I think is a pretty solid claim, then Teproc is either a VT, JOAT, role cop, or traitor. Since Ash flipped regular goon, it really hurts the goon cop's ability because scum picked so many PRs. It is entirely conceivable that scum did not choose to NK Jimmmmm because they knew that it was impossible for him to give a result. (say they picked daytalk, JOAT, and (bulletproof or role cop)). Picking Bulletproof or role cop is more likely given the fact that it is very possible that they chose 3 PRs. I think Jimmmmm's result does lower any suspicion on Teproc, but is nothing that I would give a day pass for.
At LAX. Little time. Teproc is not a Goon.Ok. So if we believe Jimmmmm's claim, which I think is a pretty solid claim, then Teproc is either a VT, JOAT, role cop, or traitor. Since Ash flipped regular goon, it really hurts the goon cop's ability because scum picked so many PRs. It is entirely conceivable that scum did not choose to NK Jimmmmm because they knew that it was impossible for him to give a result. (say they picked daytalk, JOAT, and (bulletproof or role cop)). Picking Bulletproof or role cop is more likely given the fact that it is very possible that they chose 3 PRs. I think Jimmmmm's result does lower any suspicion on Teproc, but is nothing that I would give a day pass for.
Yeah, well, he's just a JOAT or Rolecop.
Teproc is scum who has to argue that all the PR claims are actually not true, because he knows he gets POEd here.
Teproc is scum who has to argue that all the PR claims are actually not true, because he knows he gets POEd here.
This from the guy who wanted to lynch Jimmmmm earlier ? Or even better, who wanted to lynch e two hours ago ? I think e and Jimmmmm's claims are true, I don't think Walrus' is. He was the last one to claim, which is the sweet spot for a fakeclaim, and he's been acting scummy all game.
Teproc is scum who has to argue that all the PR claims are actually not true, because he knows he gets POEd here.
This from the guy who wanted to lynch Jimmmmm earlier ? Or even better, who wanted to lynch e two hours ago ? I think e and Jimmmmm's claims are true, I don't think Walrus' is. He was the last one to claim, which is the sweet spot for a fakeclaim, and he's been acting scummy all game.
I don't really think he's been "acting scummy all game." Anyway, that arguments not very important anymore. His claim got ash lynched ahead of Jimm. That's crazy play for scum!
I want to re-read ash first.
I think you've been swooping in at times, (which I admit can just be IRL) to ensure you add content when needed. That's what I think of as acti-lurking. It isn't necessarily scummy. I did want to see how folks reacted to those labels.
based on a re-read of ash, vote: mcmc. My other candidates for today right now are Robz, manda, and Teproc. I'll want to look at them (and the wagons/final votes) of the days more as well.I find that kind of humorous. You just said you believe all the claims, then list everyone (excluding yourself) who has not claimed. :P
I don't think that's an accurate description of what happened. Jimmmm wasn't getting lynched when his claim was so clearly better than ash's claim. He got a few votes, sure, but I believe ash would have been lynched regardless of Walrus' roleclaim.
In fact, if Walrus was the roleblocker, wouldn't he have waited until Jimmmmm was at L-1 to counterclaim ash ? That certainly seems like the best play to me, Walrus was a little overeager in his counterclaim here. Maybe because he was so happy to have caught scum when ash claimed Rolebocker, or because it was a plan.
Regardless of if any of them are telling the truth, at least one is scum. So let's work through the scenarios:
- Lynch ash today
- ash flips town - lynch Jimmmmm. We've traded 1 PR for 1 scum. Seems fine.
- ash flips scum - decide on Jimmmmm. We've traded maybe nothing for 1 scum. If Jimmmmm is a PR he's outed. So scum might kill him overnight? Or would they leave him alive hoping we mislynch him?
- Lynch Jimmmmm today
- Jimmmmm flips town - lynch ash. We've traded 1 PR for 1 scum. Seems fine.
- Jimmmmm flips scum - decide on ash. We've traded maybe nothing for 1 scum. Same scenario as above I think?
I actually think we should lynch Jimmmmm since the scenarios look identical - RB is more valuable to have around, right? So if we're wrong, we want to lose the least hurtful PR. Am I missing something?
based on a re-read of ash, vote: mcmc. My other candidates for today right now are Robz, manda, and Teproc. I'll want to look at them (and the wagons/final votes) of the days more as well.I find that kind of humorous. You just said you believe all the claims, then list everyone (excluding yourself) who has not claimed. :P
Summary:
Big against robz. I don't see both of them being scum. But I could see either of them being scum. He was basically right about Jimmmmm/Ashersky, and his vote on Ash before the walrus claim is big town points in my mind. I am leaning town on Teproc right now.
PPE: 2
The thing that I find funny is that at the beginning of your post you basically take claimed PRs off the table. You take yourself off the table. there are only 4 people left. You vote one and say the three others are candidates for today. I find that funny because you said it in a POE sort of way, but you had already POEed everyone else except for them.based on a re-read of ash, vote: mcmc. My other candidates for today right now are Robz, manda, and Teproc. I'll want to look at them (and the wagons/final votes) of the days more as well.I find that kind of humorous. You just said you believe all the claims, then list everyone (excluding yourself) who has not claimed. :P
What's funny about that?
The thing that I find funny is that at the beginning of your post you basically take claimed PRs off the table. You take yourself off the table. there are only 4 people left. You vote one and say the three others are candidates for today. I find that funny because you said it in a POE sort of way, but you had already POEed everyone else except for them.based on a re-read of ash, vote: mcmc. My other candidates for today right now are Robz, manda, and Teproc. I'll want to look at them (and the wagons/final votes) of the days more as well.I find that kind of humorous. You just said you believe all the claims, then list everyone (excluding yourself) who has not claimed. :P
What's funny about that?
As far as Walrus waiting to claim...why would he need to wait until Jimmmmm was at L-1? He was at L-2 (I think) and the movement did seem to be going towards ash. It makes no difference.
As far as Walrus waiting to claim...why would he need to wait until Jimmmmm was at L-1? He was at L-2 (I think) and the movement did seem to be going towards ash. It makes no difference.
What's the upside in not waiting for L-1 ? If I had been in Walrus' shoes, I would have waited for the last possible moment (ie when Jimmmmm was at L-1 and could have been hammered) to counterclaim because I wouldn't want to be outed. I don't see why you would claim at L-2 in Walrus' case. We weren't that close to deadline so he could have waited to see if the wagon on Jimmmm held up, which I don't think it would have. mcmc was techincally on that wagon but his vote had been there pre-claim and he hadn't showed up at that point which made the Jimmmmm wagon seem bigger than it was. I don't see why Roleblocker Walrus would claim at that point, except if he didin the heat of the moment because he was happy to catch ash, which is of course possible, but not optimal.
As far as Walrus waiting to claim...why would he need to wait until Jimmmmm was at L-1? He was at L-2 (I think) and the movement did seem to be going towards ash. It makes no difference.
What's the upside in not waiting for L-1 ? If I had been in Walrus' shoes, I would have waited for the last possible moment (ie when Jimmmmm was at L-1 and could have been hammered) to counterclaim because I wouldn't want to be outed. I don't see why you would claim at L-2 in Walrus' case. We weren't that close to deadline so he could have waited to see if the wagon on Jimmmm held up, which I don't think it would have. mcmc was techincally on that wagon but his vote had been there pre-claim and he hadn't showed up at that point which made the Jimmmmm wagon seem bigger than it was. I don't see why Roleblocker Walrus would claim at that point, except if he didin the heat of the moment because he was happy to catch ash, which is of course possible, but not optimal.
But why does that make Walrus more likely to be scum? Just because someone doesn't play a PR optimally (even if that is the case) doesn't make them scum/fakeclaiming.
Ever so slight scum read. Not by much, but his D2 seems a little scummy after the NK.
D1:
Early back-and-forth with Robz (example (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318421#msg318421)), but lands on town!Robz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318758#msg318758). Super wary of scum fake-claiming (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318877#msg318877). Votes Ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319184#msg319184) pretty early on. Goes V/LA most of D1 and comes back in time for the Morgrim claim. Ends up hammering Morgrim.
D2:
Comes out against Jimmmmm (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322329#msg322329) to start D2. Then after some discussion with Jimmmm unvotes (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322393#msg322393). Then a ridiculous POE (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322399#msg322399) list that has Ashersky crossed off. Jumps to Walrus after mcmc lays out a case against walrus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322430#msg322430). A bunch of stuff that didn't draw my attention. Then Voltaire comes and lays out a very rational case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325171#msg325171)as to why we should lynch Jimmmmmm. He then votes Jimmmmmm. After the Walrus claim goes to Ashersky easily enough.
D3:
Has a nice little summary post. Been active and useful.
Summary: Ever so slight scum read. Not by much, but his D2 seems a little scummy after the NK. Not a confident scum read at all. I find it hard to get a good read on him here.
PPE: 4
Why does the Jorbles death have anything to do with your D2? Am I missing something you said about Jorbles?Ever so slight scum read. Not by much, but his D2 seems a little scummy after the NK.
My D2 seems scummy after Jorbles died? I do not follow.
Why does the Jorbles death have anything to do with your D2? Am I missing something you said about Jorbles?Ever so slight scum read. Not by much, but his D2 seems a little scummy after the NK.
My D2 seems scummy after Jorbles died? I do not follow.
I am not sure what I meant there either. I don't think I meant to add "after the NK" at all. It has nothing to do with you being scummy. A mistake on my part for typing it. I really don't even remember typing it to begin withWhy does the Jorbles death have anything to do with your D2? Am I missing something you said about Jorbles?Ever so slight scum read. Not by much, but his D2 seems a little scummy after the NK.
My D2 seems scummy after Jorbles died? I do not follow.
You say that my D2 seems a little scummy after the NK. I assume you're referring to the N1 kill of Jorbles if you think my D2 is scummy? Or are you talking about faust dying last night? Either way, I don't get what you're saying.
Alright so reads:
Robz & Voltaire: despite somewhat of a disagreement-that-wasn't-actually-a-disagreement, both are helpful & useful. Town, I think
Hmm, if the scumteam is ash/Robz/mcmc then they have deliberately planned to be seen to be working together, something we probably wouldn't expect scum to do.
2.7 makes a reasonably timed claim because of his role, he expecting to die instead of Faust anyway. So claiming with time left to get a lynch in is smart.He predicts the VT kill that night. How honest is scum about what they will do that night? I find this really interesting. No one has commented on this particular point (that I could find). We get distracted with walrus/ashersky then jimmmm/ashersky and we never really look at mcmc all of D2. He later continues (D1) to defend reasons as to why my claim would be good for scum (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320512#msg320512) to make. And he also has a D1 popsquiz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320966#msg320966) that could very well turn out to be 100% wrong.
However I am expecting scum to now not target Faust leaving 2.7 and Faust alive.
This meansFaust2.7 [FTFY] could be lying scum or scum is wifoming us. So when thought out the claim is extremely safe for scum to make.
mcmcsorry I was thinking town and typed scum
D1
Doesnt say too much about PRs except that it all depends on who he drew as a teammate (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318301#msg318301). But in general he leaned toward fewer PRs. He has a lot of votes early, and I grow suspicious of him, he calls me out (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319620#msg319620) for being suspicious of him, and votes me. Then there is a lot of back and forth, etc, etc. mcmc is one of the most vocal people calling for my lynch. After my claim he says this:2.7 makes a reasonably timed claim because of his role, he expecting to die instead of Faust anyway. So claiming with time left to get a lynch in is smart.He predicts the VT kill that night. How honest is scum about what they will do that night? I find this really interesting. No one has commented on this particular point (that I could find). We get distracted with walrus/ashersky then jimmmm/ashersky and we never really look at mcmc all of D2. He later continues (D1) to defend reasons as to why my claim would be good for scum (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320512#msg320512) to make. And he also has a D1 popsquiz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320966#msg320966) that could very well turn out to be 100% wrong.
However I am expecting scum to now not target Faust leaving 2.7 and Faust alive.
This meansFaust2.7 [FTFY] could be lying scum or scum is wifoming us. So when thought out the claim is extremely safe for scum to make.
D2
Comes out against Walrus (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322427#msg322427) a bit. Affirms his scum read on walrus by voting him (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322662#msg322662). Ashersky calls him out on that post because he didn't include a scum/scum narrative for jimmmm/ash, to which walrus responds basically saying (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg323691#msg323691) he felt that was not really going to be the case given the way the argument went. Goes away from Walrus to Jimmmmm (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg323957#msg323957) sheeping robz a just a little. Then immediately (no one posts in between) as if anticipating some pushback for leaving Walrus, he maintains that he thinks Walrus is scum (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg323975#msg323975), but is leaving to place his vote on another scum read that is more likely to result in a lynch. I personally don't think throwing his vote around like that tells anything either way. He threw his vote around plenty D1. He then gives a short response to a Walrus vote on him, gives his ordering of how he thinks Jimmmm/Ash align, then has not posted since.
I believe he is v/la? He didn't post in the v/la thread though but I saw somewhere someone said he was on a cruise? Do we know when he gets back? I think not for a few more days at least.
summary: I think he isscumTOWN. His vote-jumping is a null-tell. Now, the two things that make me lean town are his prediction of the NK (not specifically but you know what I mean) and Ash calling him out for not having the scum/scum narrative. Still, him calling the NK could just be good foresight from town, or scum saying what he will probably do. In the QT Ash and him could have planned on Ash jumping all over something early to avoid getting a serious look at that prediction, but that is a stretch. Ash calling him out for not including scum/scum could just be something to try and give Ash easy town points. So there are scum narratives for both of those things, but right now I lean town
Robz makes me uncomfortable, and has all game. From his jumping all over me for the IC thing, to quickly agreeing with me on the Jorbles wagon, to pushing the Morgrim lynch and calling me scummy for arguing against it, to staunchly agreeing with ash prior to Walrus' claim, and now declaring Teproc as scum for little more than PoE. As if we can PoE at this stage.
Vote: Voltaire This is scum Voltaire. Teproc is also scum...
Vote: Voltaire This is scum Voltaire. Teproc is also scum...
Do you have, like, reasons?
Vote: Voltaire This is scum Voltaire. Teproc is also scum...
Do you have, like, reasons?
Yep. Well, POE, and I don't find manda and mcmc all that scummy, and you are more muted and less of a leader as scum, as you have been all this game.
Vote: Robz. Will also vote mcmc.
Vote: Robz. Will also vote mcmc.
I really do want to go back and look at that jorbles NK now that we have more information. I think it would be useful for everyone to look at ash and think why he would go for a jorbles NK.
Vote: Robz. Will also vote mcmc.
Same.
vote: Robz. I've thought about what he said more, and it makes even less sense. I've only been scum once! And Robz tunnels me when he's scum, M31 being the classic example.
Vote: Robz. Will also vote mcmc.
Same.
vote: Robz. I've thought about what he said more, and it makes even less sense. I've only been scum once! And Robz tunnels me when he's scum, M31 being the classic example.
Well, you are my nemesis. But this time, you are the scum.
Actually, I'm reasonably enough convinced that its Teproc and Voltaire that I wouldn't mind being lynched today, PROVIDED ALL OUR PR PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME ONCE I'M DEAD. I will be very cross if you follow up my mislynch with manda's and mcmc's.
Actually, I'm reasonably enough convinced that its Teproc and Voltaire that I wouldn't mind being lynched today, PROVIDED ALL OUR PR PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME ONCE I'M DEAD. I will be very cross if you follow up my mislynch with manda's and mcmc's.
Actually, I'm reasonably enough convinced that its Teproc and Voltaire that I wouldn't mind being lynched today, PROVIDED ALL OUR PR PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME ONCE I'M DEAD. I will be very cross if you follow up my mislynch with manda's and mcmc's.
That would just be terrible if you're town...two mislynches and one unknown. You're tunneling.
I cannot see this statement making any sense from a town point of view.
Voltaire, you are resorting to my scum tactic, you are trying to discredit me! See, he knows I will flip town and that will be bad for him. I have him so, so caught.
Mcmc was really into this game to start with, and then like started lurking... uh, which actually might fit what scum mcmc might do, perhaps he was warned to be more lurky after all the initial suspicion.
Hmm yes, so Robz you would bet the game on Volt and Teproc both being scum?
Well, I have to bet the game on 2 of Voltaire, Teproc, mcmc, and manda being scum. That's just, that's overwhelmingly likely to be where all the scum are.
Well, I have to bet the game on 2 of Voltaire, Teproc, mcmc, and manda being scum. That's just, that's overwhelmingly likely to be where all the scum are.
Didn't you vote for e earlier Today?
Sorry Robz, but I have to say I also find your behavior over the past couple pages to be unsettling. Voltaire is a possibility, sure. Both you and he are definitively within the POE crosshairs so far as I'm concerned. But if I had to choose between you and him right now, I would lynch you. Teproc has got the two night results working for him, so that's a reason not to lynch him today. Of course Robz has a failed roleblock from N1, which must be considered, but that was a long time ago and there were more scum alive then...
I like the mcmc lynch better right now though. Especially considering that I get the feeling Robz is trying to steer away from that, to defend mcmc and find some other lynch prospect...it could be an informative lynch in that regard. I could imagine a Robz/mcmc team rounding out the scum.
But then I still think it's possible Robz is town--for example, he pushed pretty hard D2 to lynch ash after my counterclaim. I'm not sure about the "tunneling" thing--it seems to me like he's sort of been hopping his vote around a lot? That seems kind of like the opposite of tunneling. But maybe my perception is off on that. He seems a little more...exuberant?...than I was expecting this game.
So I'm OK with a Robz wagon but it's not my favorite.
Robz makes me uncomfortable, and has all game. From his jumping all over me for the IC thing, to quickly agreeing with me on the Jorbles wagon, to pushing the Morgrim lynch and calling me scummy for arguing against it, to staunchly agreeing with ash prior to Walrus' claim, and now declaring Teproc as scum for little more than PoE. As if we can PoE at this stage.
Well, we can POE at this stage. Pretty well, really. Scum is among the non-claimants (unless it's you but that's not likely enough for me to worry about it today). So myself (not lynching myself), Robz, Teproc, manda, mcmc.
Robz, I still haven't seen you give a good reason why either Teproc or Voltaire are scum. PoE won't work for me - I think manda is more likely Town, but I certainly won't eliminate you or mcmc. I disagree with Teproc's saying Walrus is likely scum, but you calling him scummy for that is a bit rich, as he pointed out. The only non-PoE reason you've given on Volt is meta-related and I don't find it all that compelling. Basically if we're treating me, e and Walrus as semi-ICs and you're Town, then you have more information than I do, and you need to give me more to work with.
Do you think I'm wrong, or do you think I'm scum? I can understand the former more than the latter.
Okay, yes, well I should be more able to convince you than I am town than convince you that Voltaire is scum, because I am more certain I am town (100%) than I am that Voltaire is scum. And I have been making the case that I am town.
Vote: Voltaire This is scum Voltaire. Teproc is also scum...
Do you have, like, reasons?
Yep. Well, POE, and I don't find manda and mcmc all that scummy, and you are more muted and less of a leader as scum, as you have been all this game.
I'm not super confident on that. I'm more confident that Teproc and Voltaire ARE scum, and I really don't think manda is.
Mcmc was really into this game to start with, and then like started lurking... uh, which actually might fit what scum mcmc might do, perhaps he was warned to be more lurky after all the initial suspicion.
But we can't do much with mcmc right now with him gone.
Voltaire, you are resorting to my scum tactic, you are trying to discredit me! See, he knows I will flip town and that will be bad for him. I have him so, so caught.
Sorry Robz, but I have to say I also find your behavior over the past couple pages to be unsettling. Voltaire is a possibility, sure. Both you and he are definitively within the POE crosshairs so far as I'm concerned. But if I had to choose between you and him right now, I would lynch you. Teproc has got the two night results working for him, so that's a reason not to lynch him today. Of course Robz has a failed roleblock from N1, which must be considered, but that was a long time ago and there were more scum alive then...
I like the mcmc lynch better right now though. Especially considering that I get the feeling Robz is trying to steer away from that, to defend mcmc and find some other lynch prospect...it could be an informative lynch in that regard. I could imagine a Robz/mcmc team rounding out the scum.
But then I still think it's possible Robz is town--for example, he pushed pretty hard D2 to lynch ash after my counterclaim. I'm not sure about the "tunneling" thing--it seems to me like he's sort of been hopping his vote around a lot? That seems kind of like the opposite of tunneling. But maybe my perception is off on that. He seems a little more...exuberant?...than I was expecting this game.
So I'm OK with a Robz wagon but it's not my favorite.
Walrus: Everything you just said about me correct, and if you had played more games with me, you would know this makes me town. I'm definitely all over the place, and I'm definitely exuberant. It's because I'm town and I think we're going to win and this is the fun part of the game for me (when I'm scum, the whole game is the fun part of the game).
I would point you to Day 3 (I think it's 3) of Wibbly Wobbly Mafia, which was Mafia XXIX. I certainly went a tad crazy and actually zeroed in on the town Vig to begin with, outing him. But after that I had all the puzzle pieces put together, we lynched based on my recommendations, and won (and I got my first town MVP!). This game is that game. And Voltaire was scum then and I caught him.
I'm not as sure this time, mostly because I have a lot of new meta info on Voltaire since that game, that was actually made it harder for me to read him. But intuitively, this game feels to me like that game. I mean, it shoudl and would persuade you that I'm town, if you had been in that game. Unfortunately, no one here was, except Voltaire.
I might support the mcmc lynch more after we hear from him, I just hate the idea of letting Teproc and Voltaire--who are very scummy--get away with this because mcmc is on vacation.
That said, there is a scum narrative for mcmc and I know I have a blind spot about him and it's better to lynch him than me. But it's best to lynch Voltaire!
Okay, yes, well I should be more able to convince you than I am town than convince you that Voltaire is scum, because I am more certain I am town (100%) than I am that Voltaire is scum. And I have been making the case that I am town.
Sorry, I meant if you're Town I want to give you a chance to convince me that Volt and Teproc are likely scum. Especially if they are. If you can find a way to convince me you're Town then good for you, but I'm more interesting in finding scum than Town.
I would point you to Day 3 (I think it's 3) of Wibbly Wobbly Mafia, which was Mafia XXIX. I certainly went a tad crazy and actually zeroed in on the town Vig to begin with, outing him. But after that I had all the puzzle pieces put together, we lynched based on my recommendations, and won (and I got my first town MVP!). This game is that game. And Voltaire was scum then and I caught him.
But as long as our friends with PRs recognize that I am not scum, we're in pretty good shape.
But as long as our friends with PRs recognize that I am not scum, we're in pretty good shape.
You realise that unless Walrus successfully Roleblocks the right scum we're only 1 mislynch away from mylo right?
Well, POE, and I don't find manda and mcmc all that scummy, and you are more muted and less of a leader as scum, as you have been all this game.
I'm not super confident on that. I'm more confident that Teproc and Voltaire ARE scum, and I really don't think manda is.
Voltaire, you are resorting to my scum tactic, you are trying to discredit me! See, he knows I will flip town and that will be bad for him. I have him so, so caught.
Walrus: Everything you just said about me correct, and if you had played more games with me, you would know this makes me town. I'm definitely all over the place, and I'm definitely exuberant.
I would point you to Day 3 (I think it's 3) of Wibbly Wobbly Mafia, which was Mafia XXIX. I certainly went a tad crazy and actually zeroed in on the town Vig to begin with, outing him. But after that I had all the puzzle pieces put together, we lynched based on my recommendations, and won (and I got my first town MVP!). This game is that game. And Voltaire was scum then and I caught him.
I'm not as sure this time, mostly because I have a lot of new meta info on Voltaire since that game, that was actually made it harder for me to read him. But intuitively, this game feels to me like that game. I mean, it shoudl and would persuade you that I'm town, if you had been in that game. Unfortunately, no one here was, except Voltaire.
I might support the mcmc lynch more after we hear from him, I just hate the idea of letting Teproc and Voltaire--who are very scummy--get away with this because mcmc is on vacation.
That said, there is a scum narrative for mcmc and I know I have a blind spot about him and it's better to lynch him than me. But it's best to lynch Voltaire!
The catch here, of course, is that this argument may be TOO weak for a scum player on top of his game.
How about a FLAVOR CLAIM!?
Haha is that an It's Always Sunny reference?
I'm Henry Sugar btw. Never heard of him until this game but he sounds like a cool dude.
ooooh
things are spicing up now
Game Setup
Flavor and flavor names will be taken from the books of Roald Dahl. One and only one flavor name will have intentional significance in regard to roles and/or alignment. This is all I will say on the subject.
Let's remember this:Game Setup
Flavor and flavor names will be taken from the books of Roald Dahl. One and only one flavor name will have intentional significance in regard to roles and/or alignment. This is all I will say on the subject.
Let's remember this:Game Setup
Flavor and flavor names will be taken from the books of Roald Dahl. One and only one flavor name will have intentional significance in regard to roles and/or alignment. This is all I will say on the subject.
I think I'm Grandpa Joe.you think? PMs are pretty clear usually
I think I'm Grandpa Joe.
I think I'm Grandpa Joe.you think? PMs are pretty clear usually
I think I'm Grandpa Joe.you think? PMs are pretty clear usually
So far behind, I am Charlie bucket.
Anything esle I need to say? Let me know quick.
So far behind, I am Charlie bucket.
Anything esle I need to say? Let me know quick.
No. We are not close to a lynch (unfortunately).
So far behind, I am Charlie bucket.
Anything esle I need to say? Let me know quick.
No. We are not close to a lynch (unfortunately).
Oh :( are we winning?
So far behind, I am Charlie bucket.
Anything esle I need to say? Let me know quick.
No-lynch is also a possibility, and should probably be done at some point.I don't want to no-lynch today. I mean, it can be used as a tactic later, but right now robz, voltaire, Teproc, mcmc, and manda have a lynch pool of 4 people to find 2 scum. pretty good odds if you ask me. The rest of us are at 2/5. Still pretty good.
No-lynch is also a possibility, and should probably be done at some point.I don't want to no-lynch today. I mean, it can be used as a tactic later, but right now robz, voltaire, Teproc, mcmc, and manda have a lynch pool of 4 people to find 2 scum. pretty good odds if you ask me. The rest of us are at 2/5. Still pretty good.
I'm not really deterred from thinking its Voltaire and Teproc. Also, they really aren't trying very hard. Voltaire especially works really hard in his town games. Makes me more confident he is scum here.
I'm not really deterred from thinking its Voltaire and Teproc. Also, they really aren't trying very hard. Voltaire especially works really hard in his town games. Makes me more confident he is scum here.
I would like to take both Teproc and manda out of the lynch pool for Today.I have already stated how my top two scum reads right now are Robz and Voltaire, so this somewhat fits with the way I am thinking. I just don't think we should "officially" limit the lynch pool any more than it is right now.
Teproc because we "know" (to the extent that we trust Walrus and me) that he isn't a Goon and didn't make the kill last Night. manda simply because I think we have better options.
Obviously if the other semi-ICs disagree or if someone has something super compelling about either of these two then that should be said. But otherwise I think our lynch pool for Today should be:
Robz
mcmcsalot
Voltaire
Hopefully this should at least help direct the rest of the Day and help us come to a great lynch.
I would like to take both Teproc and manda out of the lynch pool for Today.
Teproc because we "know" (to the extent that we trust Walrus and me) that he isn't a Goon and didn't make the kill last Night. manda simply because I think we have better options.
Obviously if the other semi-ICs disagree or if someone has something super compelling about either of these two then that should be said. But otherwise I think our lynch pool for Today should be:
Robz
mcmcsalot
Voltaire
Hopefully this should at least help direct the rest of the Day and help us come to a great lynch.
Sure, that's fine. But how are you going to pick between me and Voltaire?coin flip. see this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTLp14MKDDU) (the relevant part starts at 3:00) for reference.
- his claim can not be confirmed unless we have a night without NK.
Though if he is scum that could be his team no-killing to try to make his claim more believable.
I could actually see this being a scum/scum gambit since it involves ashersky...and Jimmmmm was the scummier of the two in my book.
^^Yes, wasn't I saying that this was more likely scum/scum than town/town, to me?
Definitely lynch Jimm, I think. If it's town!Jimm and scum!ash and ash gets away with this crap again, that will really really suck... but what else can we do? Jimm is just so so different to me this game. If he were truly the cop he should be playing his typical reserved self, to maximize his chances of living long. And Jimm usually lives a long time for precisely this reason. If you're a town PR, you picked the really wrong time to switch up your meta!
Yeah, so lynch Jimm.
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmc
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Robz
manda
mcmcsalot
Voltaire
Teproc
So I've been thinking a little bit more about the setup, and we need to consider a couple things.
We know we have an IC (faust) and a Tracker (Morgrim). We know we very likely have a Goon Cop (Jimm). I very much believe we have a Roleblocker (Walrus), or else Walrus counterclaimed only to get his scum buddy immediately killed. If 2.7's claim is true and he is indeed a Bodyguard, we actually have the maximum amount of PRs. We start with 2 automatically, and and we can get a maximum 3 more if scum picked their maximum number of PRs. This means that if any living person is a Vigilante, he or she should immediately claim. This would effectively be a counter claim. It would be impossible for this claim, and Walrus, and Jimm, and 2.7 to all be true.
I assume there is no Vigilante, because you should have already known this, and you should have probably shot 2.7 based on this information (thus confirming your own identity since there would be two kills). I am not the Vigilante--if you are (whoever you are) you screwed up, but tell us!
Want to lynch: Morg
Would lynch: jorbles, manda, walrus, jimmm
Won't lynch: Faust, Robz, Ash, teproc, Volt, 2.7
Vote: Voltaire This is scum Voltaire. Teproc is also scum...
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcThe Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Robz
manda
mcmcsalot
Voltaire
Teproc
Scum team?
Robz is scum!
vote: mcmc
I don't actually think it's mcmc/Robz though.
Robz is scum!Quotevote: mcmcQuoteI don't actually think it's mcmc/Robz though.
This seems incongruent.
Robz is scum!Quotevote: mcmcQuoteI don't actually think it's mcmc/Robz though.
This seems incongruent.
Volt, if Robz is scum, who is the most likely third?
Also, if Robz isn't scum, who are the most likely remaining scum?
And what is your case against Voltaire/Teproc again besides a bad feeling? Especially Teproc...what evidence do you have that is enough to override Jimmmmm's and my double result last night?
Looks like you're doing a fair bit of wriggling right now.
Teproc is scum.He claimed at L-2 on day 1, before Morgrim did, IIRC.
I see why you believe Walrus' claim Robz, but I simply don't agree with your premise, which is that Jimmmmm would have been lynched if Walrus hadn't stepped in. Probably because I still don't understand why you (and Voltaire and faust) wanted to lynch him first, that still makes no sense to me. I believe he had 3 votes on him when Walrus stepped in ?
I'm having a hard time believing scum took 3 powers. I mean, maybe they did, but that seems very risky because it makes them super weak to the Goon Cop, who'd have a very high likelihood to exist if they did that. And I'm much more inclined to believe 2.7's and Jimmmm's claims because I have a town reads on them regardless, whereas I think Walrus has legitimately been scummy this game. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
Teproc is scum who has to argue that all the PR claims are actually not true, because he knows he gets POEd here.
At LAX. Little time. Teproc is not a Goon.Ok. So if we believe Jimmmmm's claim, which I think is a pretty solid claim, then Teproc is either a VT, JOAT, role cop, or traitor. Since Ash flipped regular goon, it really hurts the goon cop's ability because scum picked so many PRs. It is entirely conceivable that scum did not choose to NK Jimmmmm because they knew that it was impossible for him to give a result. (say they picked daytalk, JOAT, and (bulletproof or role cop)). Picking Bulletproof or role cop is more likely given the fact that it is very possible that they chose 3 PRs. I think Jimmmmm's result does lower any suspicion on Teproc, but is nothing that I would give a day pass for.
Yeah, well, he's just a JOAT or Rolecop.
Summary:
Big against robz. I don't see both of them being scum. But I could see either of them being scum. He was basically right about Jimmmmm/Ashersky, and his vote on Ash before the walrus claim is big town points in my mind. I am leaning town on Teproc right now.
PPE: 2
Being right doesn't make someone less likely to be scum.
Also, I despise the case against me. "He's acting weird, it doesn't sit right with me, he's too whatever." Oh no, you caught me!
Also, we all forgot that I am an IC?
He said if I'm scum it probably means Teproc is. He said this because knows I will flip town, and then you will lynch him (Voltaire), and so he wants to do a light bus on his partner, to disassociate.
^^But to repeat, I'm not as sure about Teproc, I don't have as good a feel for him. Think about that one, although I bet it's Teproc.
Voltaire should be auto-lynched tomorrow.
I am not sure rob is the best lynch today, he way volt reacted was scummy simply because I have not seen him do that.
I am not sure rob is the best lynch today, he way volt reacted was scummy simply because I have not seen him do that.
Have not seen me do what?
Also, I despise the case against me. "He's acting weird, it doesn't sit right with me, he's too whatever." Oh no, you caught me!
I am not sure rob is the best lynch today, he way volt reacted was scummy simply because I have not seen him do that.
Have not seen me do what?
Omgus and get semi riled up.
Also, I despise the case against me. "He's acting weird, it doesn't sit right with me, he's too whatever." Oh no, you caught me!
I fully believe the case against you is significantly better than any you've presented against Volt and/or Teproc.
Also, I despise the case against me. "He's acting weird, it doesn't sit right with me, he's too whatever." Oh no, you caught me!
I fully believe the case against you is significantly better than any you've presented against Volt and/or Teproc.
thanks for the bump, TA.
We need to get this rolling again. under 24 hours.
vote: teproc
The biggest reason I had a town read on him was because he voted Ashersky before Walrus came through and made his claim. Upon rereading, I no longer think that is enough to push him town in my mind. The stuff Robz has mentioned against him make me comfortable with my vote right now
vote: teproc
The biggest reason I had a town read on him was because he voted Ashersky before Walrus came through and made his claim. Upon rereading, I no longer think that is enough to push him town in my mind. The stuff Robz has mentioned against him make me comfortable with my vote right now
It is intriguing, but I doubt it. That would mean Ash/Robz or Ash/Volt were drawn as a scum team and you are telling me that they would recruit? Now, it is not a guarantee that scum recruited, but if all claims are true I find it very likely that they did. Now, do you see Robz/Volt recruiting someone who turns out to be Ash? Maybe, but again, I do not think they would have recruited. Now, it makes more sense to me saying that teproc/robz or teproc/voltaire recruited. The common factor there is Teproc.thanks for the bump, TA.
We need to get this rolling again. under 24 hours.
vote: teproc
The biggest reason I had a town read on him was because he voted Ashersky before Walrus came through and made his claim. Upon rereading, I no longer think that is enough to push him town in my mind. The stuff Robz has mentioned against him make me comfortable with my vote right now
What do you think about robz volt being the scum team?
I just think it would be weird to lynch Teproc given the results me and Jimmmmm obtained. That's harder evidence than anything else we've got right now.
Maybe later, and I appreciate the analysis. But he's not in my lynch pool today.
I just think it would be weird to lynch Teproc given the results me and Jimmmmm obtained. That's harder evidence than anything else we've got right now.
Maybe later, and I appreciate the analysis. But he's not in my lynch pool today.
Keeping the lynch pool open is true, and I understand how it seems scummy, but I just tend to be a bit paranoid. In GoT I excluded a scum team from my reasoning on day 3 through PoE, and guess what, that was the scum team, so I'm wary of PoE. That's also why I've tried not to accept claims as gospel, but that's a bogus accusation on Robz's part anyway, since he's done it at least as much as I have. I guess scum would try to scummy up PRs, but I also think town should take a careful stance regarding "IC" claimants, so I don't think it's indicative of alignment in and of itself.
I will be gone all tomorrow morning and will probably not be as focused here until after Time War goes into night (5:30 deadline as opposed to the 8:00 deadline). I like my vote where it is right now. Might consider moving it as we near deadline in order to get a lynch.
The #1 priority here is that we get a lynch. We need a lynch. I will absolutely not let us deadline out without a lynch if I can in any way prevent that from happening.
Here's the thing about Robz currently.... his defense of himself is SO BAD. I mean honestly, reference to personal meta, sarcasm, and then throwing your hands up in defeat? That is not a defense at all. I like to think scum would try a little harder to stay alive, so either: he's town, playing like town OR he's scum framing himself as town. The reference to his own meta makes the second option seem much more likely.
You
You
?
Assuming Walrus is not trying to pull off an amazing scum performance by throwing his partner under the bus by counterfakeclaiming his partners fakeclaim, there is a lynch pool of 4 players with 2 scum. Which means that the 2 town members have a 2/3 shot of hitting scum.
I do not want to no-lynch
In fact, vote: voltaire because of his "reasonable" argument for the no-lynch
Scum will NK myself or Walrus. you don't learn anything from that. at all. Actually, you will probably learn that I am the bodyguard because I will bodyguard Walrus and die doing it. Or scum will strongman Walrus.
I think there is a much better chance that we lynch scum today than if we no-lynch. tomorrow, scum needs to get one town member to vote the wrong person, they jump on it and game over. We need a lynch today. We need to be confident. It is scum!volt telling us we don't need to lynch today
It is not a "bigger risk" lynching today. It is a "bigger risk" lynching tomorrow and no-lynching today. The reason for this is because we have 2 quasi-ICs, myself and walrus. We will be the ones to die overnight. What are you playing for, that scum will kill one of 4 of you in the lynch pool? We learn nothing at all other than that we (walrus and I) are in fact the roles that we claimed (which I already believe).Assuming Walrus is not trying to pull off an amazing scum performance by throwing his partner under the bus by counterfakeclaiming his partners fakeclaim, there is a lynch pool of 4 players with 2 scum. Which means that the 2 town members have a 2/3 shot of hitting scum.
I do not want to no-lynch
In fact, vote: voltaire because of his "reasonable" argument for the no-lynch
Scum will NK myself or Walrus. you don't learn anything from that. at all. Actually, you will probably learn that I am the bodyguard because I will bodyguard Walrus and die doing it. Or scum will strongman Walrus.
I think there is a much better chance that we lynch scum today than if we no-lynch. tomorrow, scum needs to get one town member to vote the wrong person, they jump on it and game over. We need a lynch today. We need to be confident. It is scum!volt telling us we don't need to lynch today
What do we gain by taking a bigger risk today? Seriously, I don't see why this is wrong.
It is not a "bigger risk" lynching today. It is a "bigger risk" lynching tomorrow and no-lynching today. The reason for this is because we have 2 quasi-ICs, myself and walrus. We will be the ones to die overnight. What are you playing for, that scum will kill one of 4 of you in the lynch pool? We learn nothing at all other than that we (walrus and I) are in fact the roles that we claimed (which I already believe).Assuming Walrus is not trying to pull off an amazing scum performance by throwing his partner under the bus by counterfakeclaiming his partners fakeclaim, there is a lynch pool of 4 players with 2 scum. Which means that the 2 town members have a 2/3 shot of hitting scum.
I do not want to no-lynch
In fact, vote: voltaire because of his "reasonable" argument for the no-lynch
Scum will NK myself or Walrus. you don't learn anything from that. at all. Actually, you will probably learn that I am the bodyguard because I will bodyguard Walrus and die doing it. Or scum will strongman Walrus.
I think there is a much better chance that we lynch scum today than if we no-lynch. tomorrow, scum needs to get one town member to vote the wrong person, they jump on it and game over. We need a lynch today. We need to be confident. It is scum!volt telling us we don't need to lynch today
What do we gain by taking a bigger risk today? Seriously, I don't see why this is wrong.
So right now it takes 4 people to lynch. so it takes 2 town+2 scum to mislynch. Tomorrow it would take 1 town+ 2 scum to mislynch. I like our chances to avoid a mislynch today. So it is actually a bigger risk waiting for tomorrow to lynch
We've stalled out again.
Walrus, what are you thinking? If you join me and manda in no-lynch we can force it through by timing out (though that's not great).
We've stalled out again.
Walrus, what are you thinking? If you join me and manda in no-lynch we can force it through by timing out (though that's not great).
I will work towards no lynch rather than letting deadline hit, though really I would rather a volt lynch who is most likely scum. A I thought he wasscum yesterday, B rob who I thought was scum turned out to be town and probably right about volt being scum.
So sorry, Robz, both for mislynching you, and also that I'm not super keen on a Voltaire lynch today. First of all, my result--that's a ~50% chance that Volt is not scum. I gotta listen to the evidence.
I am also against a no lynch today. I just don't see the rationale for it.
I agree that we should start getting very worried about lurkers. In particular, vote: mcmc. This is partially by default from previous scumreads, but also because he is continuing to insist on a Voltaire lynch based on outdated info--a Robz/Volt scum team is impossible, given Robz' flip.
e, I think you should keep targeting me. Not to be controlling or anything, but whom else would you target, really? If I die and e doesn't, I would consider that to be quite a scummy thing.
As you may have seen I am stuck in the Atlanta airport--I will have time to contribute more when (if) I get home tomorrow (eventually).
We've stalled out again.
Walrus, what are you thinking? If you join me and manda in no-lynch we can force it through by timing out (though that's not great).
I will work towards no lynch rather than letting deadline hit, though really I would rather a volt lynch who is most likely scum. A I thought he wasscum yesterday, B rob who I thought was scum turned out to be town and probably right about volt being scum.
If you are town, please understand that this is a terrible line of thinking. Being dead town doesn't make you magically right. Robz and I were wrong about each other, like yuma and I were in GoT. I don't want it to cost us the game again!
Robz/volt scum team was not my only reasoning, I was pretty sure volt was scum and fit as a scum partner with robz well so I eventually was okay with lynchig robz as well, though even yesterday I wanted volt first. I think volt/teprocas robz said is scum. though there is still the slight chance 2.7 isscum, I need to reread all the stuff to see which of our "ic's" are potentially fake claimers, I mean 2.7 has done some questionable things.
The Unclaimed:
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmcsalot
Everyone, please order these players from least scummy to most scummy.
Voltaire
Robz
manda
Teproc
mcmc
Teproc D1:
Chooses JOAT+Role Cop (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg318278#msg318278) as his scum PR choices, with the option of daytalk. If he is scum, we know he was lying since Ash was a regular goon. But scum would be lying there anyway most likely. (unless they weren't- Ash said all or none)
Is big on Robz being scum (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg319232#msg319232). Maintains this all day (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320482#msg320482). Don't know what to read into this yet without one of them flipping. He is also against the Jorbles lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg320489#msg320489). He then eventually goes over to voting Morgrim after the Morgrim claim, which is something both town and scum did I am sure. (how many scum did is a question worth reevaluating though. Working under the assumption they chose 3 PRs means they probably have daytalk, and they must have discussed this. But that is a different post)
D2:
A good post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg322299#msg322299) discussing the Jorbles NK. Finds walrus scummy (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg323655#msg323655). Maintains his scum!robz (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg324289#msg324289) read. Finds Jimmmmm/Ash to be town/town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg324670#msg324670). Eventually lands on an Ashersky vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg325192#msg325192) (pre-walrus claim). Says a bit more but not much else to note
D3:
Sheeps my hypothetical about a Walrus fake-claim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg326262#msg326262). Mentions how there might not be any goons (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg326275#msg326275) left.
Summary:
Big against robz. I don't see both of them being scum. But I could see either of them being scum. He was basically right about Jimmmmm/Ashersky, and his vote on Ash before the walrus claim is big town points in my mind. I am leaning town on Teproc right now.
PPE: 2
Robz makes me uncomfortable, and has all game. From his jumping all over me for the IC thing, to quickly agreeing with me on the Jorbles wagon, to pushing the Morgrim lynch and calling me scummy for arguing against it, to staunchly agreeing with ash prior to Walrus' claim, and now declaring Teproc as scum for little more than PoE. As if we can PoE at this stage.
Well, we can POE at this stage. Pretty well, really. Scum is among the non-claimants (unless it's you but that's not likely enough for me to worry about it today). So myself (not lynching myself), Robz, Teproc, manda, mcmc.
I think mcmc is the scummiest, followed by Robz, Teproc, manda. Robz has jumped all over the place today but I do still put weight in the D1 stuff. Teproc has kept the lynch pool open somewhat but he has two clearing-ish results on him, so I don't think he's a good lynch today. manda also has D1 stuff and doesn't look like I'd expect new scum to look.
I feel pretty good about two of mcmc/Robz/Teproc being scum, and we have the time/PRs to sort it out.
This is nonsense - Robz is not my scum partner, Robz is scum! mcmc, what other than the fact that I am one of the two most likely "candidates" makes you think that I am scum? And that Robz is my partner? Nothing. I think you see two lynches you like, and you don't care which one goes through.Then this which is the big thing, scum!volt has been trying to maintain a scum read on me and robz and a town read on teproc this whole time but doesn't want it to be obvious. he now says me and robz are an unlikely scum team, but we eventually lynch robz, who was his top townread that slipped and I live, the only one he continued to think was scum.
vote: mcmc
I don't actually think it's mcmc/Robz though. Hregh.
I think no-lynch today is the right call, but I don't want us to deadline out to it (I learned how horrid that was in Toy Story). I say we set a soft deadline at which point we'll all vote for no-lynch, but get our discussion in beforehand. Alternately, we can decide how much we want to trust Walrus to stop a kill if we risk mislynching today and go for scum right now (but I think that's a bad idea).
Robz flipping town made me suspect Teproc more but Jimmmmm as the NK has reversed all of that. mcmc is now my top suspect.
Check your quotes here. You throw my summary of Teproc in as if it was Voltaire's summary. Did you mean to do that?
This started my volt suspicion, he says robz is least scummy and me and teproc are scum.
This is from D2. My reads changed over time.
Then he posts this and baisically says he leans town on teproc, leaving me his main and only held up scum read.
As has already been noted, this was e referring to Teproc.
nextRobz makes me uncomfortable, and has all game. From his jumping all over me for the IC thing, to quickly agreeing with me on the Jorbles wagon, to pushing the Morgrim lynch and calling me scummy for arguing against it, to staunchly agreeing with ash prior to Walrus' claim, and now declaring Teproc as scum for little more than PoE. As if we can PoE at this stage.
Well, we can POE at this stage. Pretty well, really. Scum is among the non-claimants (unless it's you but that's not likely enough for me to worry about it today). So myself (not lynching myself), Robz, Teproc, manda, mcmc.
I think mcmc is the scummiest, followed by Robz, Teproc, manda. Robz has jumped all over the place today but I do still put weight in the D1 stuff. Teproc has kept the lynch pool open somewhat but he has two clearing-ish results on him, so I don't think he's a good lynch today. manda also has D1 stuff and doesn't look like I'd expect new scum to look.
I feel pretty good about two of mcmc/Robz/Teproc being scum, and we have the time/PRs to sort it out.
He holds on to the scum read of me and now says robz is scummy as well
Yes, this is a thing I did.This is nonsense - Robz is not my scum partner, Robz is scum! mcmc, what other than the fact that I am one of the two most likely "candidates" makes you think that I am scum? And that Robz is my partner? Nothing. I think you see two lynches you like, and you don't care which one goes through.Then this which is the big thing, scum!volt has been trying to maintain a scum read on me and robz and a town read on teproc this whole time but doesn't want it to be obvious. he now says me and robz are an unlikely scum team, but we eventually lynch robz, who was his top townread that slipped and I live, the only one he continued to think was scum.
vote: mcmc
I don't actually think it's mcmc/Robz though. Hregh.I think no-lynch today is the right call, but I don't want us to deadline out to it (I learned how horrid that was in Toy Story). I say we set a soft deadline at which point we'll all vote for no-lynch, but get our discussion in beforehand. Alternately, we can decide how much we want to trust Walrus to stop a kill if we risk mislynching today and go for scum right now (but I think that's a bad idea).
Robz flipping town made me suspect Teproc more but Jimmmmm as the NK has reversed all of that. mcmc is now my top suspect.
Then that, why does robz town flip make him suspect teproc? The same reason you claimed was part of your case against me, Robz. Robz has flipped town and was so so so so so so so sure about the team being me/Teproc. Obviously wrong about me, but what about Teproc? Then I thought it through. he just said me and robz probably weren't scum together, so robz flipping town should make him think I am scummy. Yup, I do. However again the conclusion he comes to is what he wants its just wierd how he gets to it, the jimm night kill is what makes him think its me not teproc. Correct.
Voltaire, if you're so sure that e is town, what would you really gain by determining that he and I aren't pulling the wool over your eyes? Those statements seem kind of incongruous to me.
Ok, so is the ~0+0.5% chance that he or I is scum enough to outweigh the ~5% or so difference in roleblocking chances for me? That's simplified for sure. But this is a game of probabilities as you know.
Mostly a gut feeling about mcmc, brought on by manda's general attitude towards lynching him or not or whatever...at this point I don't think scum really cares if there's a no lynch, and it doesn't take a whole lot to drive a mislynch home.
We've stalled out again.
^^forum time. (Eastern US)We've stalled out again.
We have had some action past this post, but I agree with the sentiment. I am a strong advocate for a soft deadline. drawing things out to the last second is never good. I understand that has had to happen due to various V/LA stuff, but I think we are all here and can get something done.
Soft deadline at 11:59PM Sunday, Jan 5? That gives us Friday and the weekend to figure something out. I am confident that we can, and if we just look at the deadline as the 8th we will continue to have spurts of small activity but nothing real actually happening.
believe me, I have not forgotten about strongman. My guess is that they use that power (if they have it) tonight. Because they want a roleblocker dead. I will bodyguard Walrus (unless something crazy happens) so to kill Walrus they MUST strongman kill him. Which makes me think I will die tonight, which is another reason I want to vote today. Because then I get a voice in the matterWell, I guess I wouldn't die if they do strongman. The above post didn't make sense to me right after I posted it. Because basically I implied I think they do not have JOAT, but I actually think they do, so Walrus probably will die tonight
^^forum time. (Eastern US)We've stalled out again.
We have had some action past this post, but I agree with the sentiment. I am a strong advocate for a soft deadline. drawing things out to the last second is never good. I understand that has had to happen due to various V/LA stuff, but I think we are all here and can get something done.
Soft deadline at 11:59PM Sunday, Jan 5? That gives us Friday and the weekend to figure something out. I am confident that we can, and if we just look at the deadline as the 8th we will continue to have spurts of small activity but nothing real actually happening.
Caught up but need to reread, voltaire seems to be buddying teproc like A LOT. Not sure what it means though.
okay, rered complete, manda provided absolutely nothing of relevance, I tunneled into a read of robz/voltaire being a scum team, and tproc came of townie. robz game o good reason for pushing teproc. I am more certain volt is scum than robz is scum or teproc is town. so
SCUM:Volt>>>>Robz>>Manda>>>Teproc:TOWN
This reread has me concluding that I do not want to vote Voltaire today.That was supposed to say mcmc, not Voltaire.
This reread has me concluding that I do not want to vote Voltaire today.That was supposed to say mcmc, not Voltaire.
I think I have not made up my mind completely between mcmc and teproc, but I think Voltaire is scum
you are L-2
you are L-2
This is why you don't bold an old vote. :P
Volt has had two votes on him, e's and mcmc's, since Dec 30. That is more than enough time for scum to arrange a double quickhammer forced win, especially if they have daychat, which seems to be the prevailing hypothesis.
teproc is right and this solidifies my read on volt, he has to be scum or scum would have already hammered.
teproc is right and this solidifies my read on volt, he has to be scum or scum would have already hammered.
No, it means you're scum. I noticed this quite awhile ago, and it's why I freaked out when I was at L-1 (or so I thought). I agree, today should be me vs. mcmc, and you really really really should lynch mcmc.
teproc is right and this solidifies my read on volt, he has to be scum or scum would have already hammered.
No, it means you're scum. I noticed this quite awhile ago, and it's why I freaked out when I was at L-1 (or so I thought). I agree, today should be me vs. mcmc, and you really really really should lynch mcmc.
teproc is right and this solidifies my read on volt, he has to be scum or scum would have already hammered.
No, it means you're scum. I noticed this quite awhile ago, and it's why I freaked out when I was at L-1 (or so I thought). I agree, today should be me vs. mcmc, and you really really really should lynch mcmc.
Volt or me is who we need to lynch the case against me is I an lurky and ash made a small case on me early, volt has the whole case robz the now confirmed town made against him. This is an easy lynch, volts partner is going to be the hard one to find.
teproc is right and this solidifies my read on volt, he has to be scum or scum would have already hammered.
No, it means you're scum. I noticed this quite awhile ago, and it's why I freaked out when I was at L-1 (or so I thought). I agree, today should be me vs. mcmc, and you really really really should lynch mcmc.
you vs. mcmc, the winner is town, the loser is scum? What about the situation where both of you are scum? Making this a focused me vs you (town vs scum) is interesting.
Hmm. A scum v scum scenario for Voltaire vs mcmc is interesting. Maybe they figured Voltaire would be an automatic lynch after Robz flipped town and decided to distance themselves as much as they can, which is why they're both saying it can't be scum v scum ?
I think that we are dealing with an mcmc/voltaire scum team, and am comfortable with lynching either one of them.
My preference is Voltaire, but I will also lynch mcmc
can we get a prod on manda
just over 24 hours remaining.
Voltaire and mcmc, you have talked a lot about each other being scum, but who do you think the second scum is? Manda or Teproc?
In fact, could everyone state who they think the scum team is?
I think it is mcmc and voltaire
Okay my read on mcmc hasn't really changed since I last posted, and for all the reasons I stated previously (jumping in very quickly with his votes, etc).
As far as Voltaire is concerned I am becoming more convinced that he is town. I'm certainly not positive, but operating under the assumption (as I am) that mcmc is scum, the quickhammer situation makes sense. The problem, though, is that I haven't reaaaally seen any reason to say Teproc is scum, so I'm really torn between the two of them.
I will vote for mcmc, but I don't want to put him at an L-1 situation unless everyone feels comfortable with it being lynch time.
Also I'll be around the rest of tonight and most of tomorrow.
PPE: mcmc basing so much of his decision-making on "knowing Robz was right" makes me even more comfortable in my suspicion.
Note that mcmc has two votes on him now as well...I think I've lost some faith in that argument though, considering that it could leave scum open to a potential roleblock if they didn't do it subtly enough, and also now that they're aware of it they can try to use it to manipulate the discussion.
Note that mcmc has two votes on him now as well...I think I've lost some faith in that argument though, considering that it could leave scum open to a potential roleblock if they didn't do it subtly enough, and also now that they're aware of it they can try to use it to manipulate the discussion.
At this point I think I prefer the manda lynch. Her post now was just as non-committal as she has been all game, "sure, I'll lynch mcmc, whatever...". Also, the PPE...did it really take you 40+ minutes to write that out manda? Maybe that's a minor point, but it jumped out at me. I think a manda/mcmc scumteam is a real possibility.
mcmc is still my second choice I guess, but I'm getting spooked that maybe the mcmc lynch is feeling too easy. Have we really heard anyone object strongly to it? It seems like "sure, I'll lynch mcmc, whatever..." is the prevailing attitude at this point. I don't know if that's how scum would react in this situation, maybe they're confident enough to bus by this point...I don't know. I'm just feeling as if the mcmc lynch has too little resistance to be real scum. Grrr, I'm triple-guessing myself here...
Further, I don't want anyone to vote mcmc until we decide if this is the correct plan of action or not.
A self-hammer by scum would actually be valuable in this situation if it meant that the could kill Walrus overnight and not have to worry about the result of his roleblocking (other than if Walrus actually roleblocks scum)
Could everyone put down their thoughts on this matter today before the lynch?
Well I'm about to start work and I may not be around at deadline. I've done all the reading and discussion that I'm going to do. So this is the part when I vote: mcmc and hope.
Also, I said as much in the scum QT, but I will definitely pay attention to late game reads by Robz. That was scary.
Ichi is... not in this game. Do you mean manda ?
Why wouldn't have Walrus shared who he targeted ? If he targeted me, it was game over for us I think.
Ichi is... not in this game. Do you mean manda ?
Why wouldn't have Walrus shared who he targeted ? If he targeted me, it was game over for us I think.
crap. yes
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
I was so scared Walrus would roleblock me but he didn't ! YES !
Also, I said as much in the scum QT, but I will definitely pay attention to late game reads by Robz. That was scary.
I wanted to lynch Voltaire, but it just wasnt getting the support. Voltaire was choice #1, I just thought mcmc was the other scum so I went ahead and hammered there
My thoughts:
1. MVP goes to Voltaire, but honorable mention to Jimmmm (he correctly investigated two mafia in a row and would have investigated Voltaire, but logically figured that if voltaire was mafia that mafia would kill the Goon Cop during the night, so instead investigated manda, so basically three for three!) He would have been MVP had town won, Robz for awesome reads and Teproc who should get a newbie of the year nomination for this performance.
2. I think I am in the minority of thinking that recruiting is not the best option. The mod QT has my opinions on what I would have done as mafia. Along those lines, if this setup is done again, 1-shot Bulletproof needs to be removed and replaced with something better (1-shot Bus Driver perhaps)?
3. PR hunting has utility, but PoE is even more important I think. Killing Jorbles wasn't necessarily a bad move, but it was the riskier one for sure.
4. I am pretty sure that had voltaire been lynched day4, then town would have absolutely won. Maybe if people didn't figure out that no-lynch was the best option, but if they did, mafia was toast.
Other thoughts coming, but baby is now awake.
Guess what Volt? You are now again obligated to be an insightful leader and Mafia superhero or I will use that argument against you :)
Oh and also, Volt and Teproc can't buddy anymore. It was cute at first. But now it's over.
Actually, I'm reasonably enough convinced that its Teproc and Voltaire that I wouldn't mind being lynched today, PROVIDED ALL OUR PR PEOPLE LISTEN TO ME ONCE I'M DEAD. I will be very cross if you follow up my mislynch with manda's and mcmc's.
It makes perfect sense, I don't NEED to live, I need to be listened to. Obviously I'd prefer not to be lynched, but I'm most concerned about how you will control the game when I'm dead. So I'm posting that warning.
Well, but it's more important to convince you that I am town, because then you'll be more likely to defer to my case. I can make a case on anybody, you have to be able to believe me...
It IS sort of based on feeling, which is why knowing you can trust me (if you are town) is so important.
The problem with lynching me is, okay, you'll get Voltaire tomorrow, but then what will you do? You better lynch Teproc. It's Voltaire/Teproc. Voltaire's recent comment sealed the deal. He said if I'm scum it probably means Teproc is. He said this because knows I will flip town, and then you will lynch him (Voltaire), and so he wants to do a light bus on his partner, to disassociate.
It's them. It's them. It's them.
Okay, well kill me, this day can be over whenever you all wish.
Tomorrow, LYNCH VOLTAIRE. Next day, LYNCH TEPROC.
You should absolutely lynch. I will vote for myself if that's what it takes. Better for me to be lynched and have you figure out that you can trust me and should listen to me, than No Lynch. Better still just to lynch Voltaire.
Saying it's true isn't enough to convince people. I've learned that lesson the hard way as town (M31).
Sorry Robz. I just didn't find your case especially convincing, when you were alive or dead. Being town doesn't mean you're right, and it really seemed like you were just beating a drum over and over. I get that you're frustrated...Should I be upset that we lynched our Tracker D1, when I tried to convince you he was town?
Apparently we should have listened in retrospect, but we have to follow our own reads and results too. And I personally think Volt and Teproc did a great job of disguising their scumminess.
Oh and sorry mcmc.
Fine. Your tone is just coming across as kind of sore loser-y right now. I'm sorry if I catalyzed an unsatisfying game of Mafia for you. Next time I'll just do what you say.
I do think you were at least a little scummy from like early stuff. I don't think lynching you was so insane, except for the fact that Voltaire was 10 times scummier.
Yeah, the Voltaire wagon stalling was a sign, which we spun into "It means one of {Voltaire,mcmc} are scum !". You'll notice that people did get suspicious when the mcmc lynch seemed too easy, but it was too late I think.
^I don't mean that facetiously, I am aware I am acting like a sore loser right now, sorry. I just really had it...
Yea I think that the issue isn't necessarily that is was robz or anything, it's just like what the hell was the case on me, and the case on volt and teproc were there as believed by many people. I mean when 2.7 robz and I pushed volt I don't see how volt didn't get lynched.
If anything ash, you did a great job with interactions : I know because I spent a lot of time rereading looking to frame people with them, and Voltaire and I never looked too bad in that (me especially). Besides, outing all the PRs, even if it made fighting PoE a nightmare, probably helped us navigate nights more easily.
You mention in the speccy that you disagree with our Jimmm nightkill (or was it the faust one ?). Do you remember what that was about ?
FWIW, I think we got it wrong in our choice of PRs (which was Recruit, Daytalk, JOAT). It made us incredibly vulnerable to Goon Cop (and it showed, with Jimmmmm targeting 3 scum in 3 tries - great job by the way) and prevented us from fakeclaiming. I still like recruiting and JOAT, but I think JOAT is not that great. We used it a lot, especially me because it was my first game, but I think we would have been fine without.
Lynching ashersky D2 - bad! (I still maintain that view; lynching ashersky did not bring town closer to the victory)
I remember a scumteam - in fact I think it was RMM9, with you on it - deliberately planning to all either be on-wagon or off-wagon together, because people wouldn't expect that. Have you forgotten this, or are you choosing not to remember it?
Of course I remember that QT, and that planning. Didn't work out, though. Brilliant idea at the time, but was there for everyone who ever read the QT to see, and so I'd say pretty stupid to emulate now.
I'm annoyed that you think I would repeat something so blatantly, and from such a recent scum game. You really do think I'm an idiot.
Also, what ridiculousness?
The "oh oh ash said something once in a previous mafia QT and that must mean he's stupid enough to immediately repeat it this game" thing.
--we should all attempt to be ON or OFF wagon at the end of the day. All three of us in one category runs counter to all wagon analysis theory. We can all safely push the "I think 2 scum on/1 off" or "1 on/2 off" theories safely.
-Robz said adamantly that Voltaire and Teproc were scum, but he also adamantly supported the Morgrim lynch and adamantly believed ash over me. I'm not saying that people should tone down their convictions, but possibly when you've been really sure about something and been wrong it makes it harder for others to trust your reads, whether or not they trust you.
-e was super scummy and would probably have been lynched if not for an even more believable claim.