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[Jorbles]

If e has claimed than I've got some reading to do. Unvote.

[Voltaire]

OK, well then. That was more interesting than I expected.

Complete belief of e's claim (not counterclaiming). His scrambling read extremely town to me but I was not expecting a claim so early. But bodyguard is not the worst PR to have claimed out there, and I do not see how newbie scum (which is what e would be) claims bodyguard. His partner would almost certainly talked with him about how to deal with a wagon D1 and this is just not how I see it going down.

Who has not posted since e's claim?

This reads differently from every other time you've done this.  You didn't go very far down the "top posters" ladder, like you usually do, and the Morgrim wave off feels like taking an easy road.

Yeah, of course it's different - it's only halfway through D1. You and at least one other person have brought this up as though it's scummy. I have noticed multiple other people say "Voltaire feels scummy" without ever giving a reason. The last game that happened, it was Eevee pushing the most hilarious of mislynch cases ever, "Voltaire isn't amazing so let's lynch him." So huge FoS to anyone trying to vaguely scum up my reputation this game without any reasons.

Also, upset I stopped before you would get a pass?

As far as Robz goes, he hasn't given me a reason to unvote, and no one else has screamed scum, so my vote stays here. He's been a lot less noticeable lately, which seems to be a great way to get the pressure off him, because people want to move on and scumhunt elsewhere. But I don't think scumhunting necessitates throwing your vote around, so I'm fine with leaving it on Robz so far.

Oh man, Teproc speaks the sense again - almost. Except in the game where I did that it was one of my worst town games ever. And Teproc, scumhunting frequently does necessitate throwing your vote around. No town read on Teproc, but he goes out of the lynch pool. I should be able to read him better tomorrow. We appear to share the same brain.

The fact of the matter is, walrus is scummier here than he has been in other, town games.  I didn't play GoT, but I followed.  Maybe someone who played there can weigh in.  But this walrus is not matching my clear vision of town!walrus.

Did you really find Walrus townie as a spectator? I was town but I thought Walrus was scum, like, the WHOLE TIME.

Ash is behaving like his super-scummy self that has always turned out to be town (whoever pointed out his wagon jumping is right, but scum!ash would know that, but scum!ash would be that brash, so...), but I don't mind my vote remaining one bit.

I actually really like the idea of a Jorbles lynch in the abstract. I want to finish looking back/update the lynch pool. I find nothing wrong with the "lynch a lurker D1" line of thought.

Walrus I need to re-read.

[Jorbles]

Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.

Seriously? This is the case against me? That there isn't a case against me? I haven't finished catching up yet and possibly this has died off, but that is ridiculous.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...

Agreed.

Deadline approaches and we've had little activity up to now due to holiday vla. 

The claim was just so wrong for scum, I think.  It could be a Brilliant ploy to stay alive, but risky if there is a real bodyguard and not worth much to out him.

Wait, why is this a bad claim for scum, he was going to get lynched, now he's not, he hasn't been counter claimed and if he's scum he knew the likelyhood of getting counterclaimed. He also never has to prove anything(if scum) and can coordinate who he protects with who he kills/manipulate joat if there is one. This is an amazing scum claim.

[Jorbles]

I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...

THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.

[Jorbles]

Can't finish my reread right now, but I will soon. (I'm not bodyguard btw).

[mcmcsalot]

I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...

THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.

Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.

[mcmcsalot]

Caught up but need to reread, voltaire seems to be buddying teproc like A LOT. Not sure what it means though.

[Teproc]

If you have time to take a look at day 2 in GoT, you'll see that he was doing it even more there (we were both town). I think we genuinely think alike, so the fact that he's buddying me is null imo, because he could replicate that as scum, or just not worry about it as town because of the GoT precedent.

[mcmcsalot]

If you have time to take a look at day 2 in GoT, you'll see that he was doing it even more there (we were both town). I think we genuinely think alike, so the fact that he's buddying me is null imo, because he could replicate that as scum, or just not worry about it as town because of the GoT precedent.

Gonna go ahead and trust ya, I had found voltaire generally towny aside from that.

[Robz888]

These "plans" to trick people into reacting seem to come from scum more often than for town. It's mostly a good way to frame people and get away with scummy things. Not huge since opposing the plan isn't scummy in and of itself, but it's still a good way to cast suspicion over everyone. Then again, he didn't do that, so maybe that's a wash.

I think they almost always come from town, actually. Good or bad, they are usually town ideas.

[Teproc]

I realise this is a very outdated reference and maybe scum doesn't do this anymore, but I remember thinking Voltgloss was town in MIII because he had such a plan (I think he put jo at L-3 and then accused the people following him) and he was scum. I think you or Galz also did something similar in MII.

In any case I don't think it's really indicative of anything here, as I said.

[Jimmmmm]

Any support for Vote: manda for her scummy jumping-on of the Jorbles wagon?

[2.71828.....]

I have been reading and rereading this thread trying to figure out the jumble of vote jumping that has been going on.
(all times forum time)
Yesterday
6:44pm: Ash votes me
8:40pm: Jimmmmm votes Jorbles for similar reasoning as my case against jorbles
9:03pm: Robz votes Jorbles agreeing with Jimmmm
9:31pm: 2.7 votes Jorbles using established reasoning from prior post
10:00pm: 2.7 claims bodyguard
10:22pm: Ash votes Jorbles.  cites deadline and a (joking?) LALL.
11:27pm: Morgrim votes jorbles.  zero explanation
12:08am: Morgrim unvotes when he realizes it is L-2 on jorbles? He doesn't really say.
1:11am: Manda votes Jorbles not as an "elegant solution" but basically says we cannot learn anything else D1 so we might as well lynch.
1:14am: Robz unvote presumably because Jorbles got to L-2 and almost L-1 and Robz did not want a quickhammer to get a chance to happen.
1:53am: Walrus votes Robz because he thinks someone on the jorbles wagon is scum and from previous suspicions of Robz.
1:59am: Walrus votes Ashersky because of the timing of Ash's vote on jorbles.  Also says his Robz vote was mistaken.  He thought it happened after my claim?
2:27am: Faust unvotes.  Presumably because of the claim
3:30am: Ash votes Walrus.  Cites "crumbling under pressure" and "better option than jorbles"
10:32am: Jorbles unvotes due to the claim
1:00pm: Jimmmmm votes manda because of her Jorbles vote

overview of votes during this time (underlined people have unvoted for that person):
Jorbles (6): Jimmmm, Robz, 2.7, Ash, Morgrim, Manda
Ashersky (1): Walrus
Walrus (1): Ashersky
Manda (1) Jimmmmm

Current Vote Count 2.7
Robz (1): Teproc
2.7 (1): mcmcsalot
ashersky (2): Voltaire, Walrus
Jorbles (2): 2.7, manda
Walrus (1): ashersky
Manda (1): jimmmmm

not voting (3): Morgrim, Robz, faust

[Jimmmmm]

I'm intrigued at how easy it was to transfer everyone from e to Jorbles...

THIS! I don't care if you guys want to lynch me, but at least do it with a case. All you guys will learn by quicklynching me "semi-randomly" is that it's not a very effective way to find scum. At least you'll be able to find scum on my wagon though.

Not true, the case on you is valid, you have had a really small presence which is a decent case for day1.

Wait... you're saying we won't be able to find scum on Jorbles' wagon?

[2.71828.....]

Based on their voting I find Ashersky and Manda to be most scummy recently.  So much for those D1 passes

Ashersky: Jumping on the Jorbles wagon.  I don't think that in itself is scummy, but

vote: Jorbles.  I can get behind the semi-random D1 lurker lynch at deadline.  LALL after all.

I don't like the little explanation he gives here at all.  If you get called out for it as scum, you say you are joking and switch off.  I mean, who actually says that they support a semi-random lynch?  In fact, Ash then does remove himself from the wagon when it is no longer popular and votes Walrus after attacking him for a brief period of time.

Manda: Her vote on Jorbles seemed to kill that wagon.  Quickly.  Why?  Her vote had a super scummy feel.

I didn't like the idea of a random-ish Jorbles lynch at first, but the more I think about it the more it seems like, while perhaps not an elegant solution, it's no less of a good idea than anything we can get out of D1 analysis. I think I'm cool with doing that and seeing what comes out of it, so, especially with the soft deadline fast approaching, vote: Jorbles

Ok. Let's lynch this guy really fast before we think about anyone else because we won't learn anything else today.  I think manda was a little over-worried about the soft deadline (which is in about 24 hours or so) and voted for the popular wagon of the time just to help getting a lynch.  I don't know just how "new" manda is, but she doesn't want to be treated like a new player and I just can't let a statement like this slide under the radar

vote: manda

[Jorbles]

This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.

Though I agree we shouldn't lynch him today, but I don't consider 2.7 to be confirmed town. His claim makes sense from a scum perspective as much as it does from a town one. If you are scum and you think you're going to be lynched you should claim something in this setup. If someone counterclaims at least you've outed a PR and given your team mates setup info. If no one counterclaims you might just be lucky and have picked a role that doesn't exist in the game. It's the smart move for a scum player with a wagon that looks like a lynch forming, and we should consider 2.7 IC because of the claim.

[Voltaire]

Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
ashersky
faust
Jorbles
manda
Teproc
morgrim
2.7
mcmcsalot

Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.11

Robz (1): Teproc
2.7 (1): mcmcsalot
ashersky (2): Voltaire, Walrus
Jorbles (1): manda
Walrus (1): ashersky
manda (2): Jimmmmm, 2.7

Not Voting (4): Morgrim, Robz, faust, Jorbles

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day1 will end in ~2 days on December 4 at 10 pm forum time

[Jimmmmm]

This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.

Though I agree we shouldn't lynch him today, but I don't consider 2.7 to be confirmed town. His claim makes sense from a scum perspective as much as it does from a town one. If you are scum and you think you're going to be lynched you should claim something in this setup. If someone counterclaims at least you've outed a PR and given your team mates setup info. If no one counterclaims you might just be lucky and have picked a role that doesn't exist in the game. It's the smart move for a scum player with a wagon that looks like a lynch forming, and we should consider 2.7 IC because of the claim.

I agree that e should in no way be treated as confirmed Town. His claim did come at a strange time though, just as the Jorbles wagon was getting some momentum. You would expect scum to at least see the Jorbles wagon out and see what happened with that. But then you'd probably expect Town to do the same.

e, can you please explain the timing of your claim?

[Jimmmmm]

Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
ashersky
faust
Jorbles
manda
Teproc
morgrim
2.7
mcmcsalot

Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.

Why have you crossed people off?

[2.71828.....]

Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
ashersky
faust
Jorbles
manda
Teproc
morgrim
2.7
mcmcsalot

Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.

Why have you crossed people off?

Those are his D-1 passes.  SCUMREAD!!!!! (joking)

[Voltaire]

Voltaire
Walrus
Robz
Jimmmm
ashersky
faust
Jorbles
manda
Teproc
morgrim
2.7
mcmcsalot

Working through this now...being away from the thread for so long has garbled everything in my brain. Ashersky is scummy (see elsewhere), Robz is Robz (leaning town), Walrus I still haven't re-read, Jimmmmm I can't remember anything except for his early fight, Jorbles is acti-lurking, mcmc is trying and is that a scumtell.

Why have you crossed people off?

Those are his D-1 passes.  SCUMREAD!!!!! (joking)

What he said. But they're not just passed - they're people I've taken out of the lynch pool. The reasons are as folows:

myself - obviously
faust - IC
manda - newbie pass + nothing scummy I've seen
Teproc - only other game I've been in with him, I was able to read him like a book (he was town) since we appear to approach the game in almost exactly the same way. Therefore I'm trusting that should he ever start behaving strangely (in my eyes) this should be an extremely clear scumtell - and he hasn't done that yet
morgim - we gain nothing from lynching morgrim. He has a 3/10 chance of flipping scum, just like almost everyone else. If we want to random lynch, he goes back in the pool. But we don't want to random lynch.
2.7 - I believe the claim AND his play reads very town to me

[Jimmmmm]

What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?

[Voltaire]

What do you think of manda's Jorbles vote?

So scummy scum wouldn't do it. Was it you who was saying previously "but how many times does scum actually do this and how many times does town actually do this"? It's one of those.