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[2.71828.....]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?

calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a joke

[2.71828.....]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?

calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a joke

Does that count as discussing an on going game? If so I am sorry.

[2.71828.....]

yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum.

I really hope you're not serious, otherwise I'll just go ahead and policy vote you now.

If you are Town, please play for Town's win condition in THIS GAME.

I was not being serious.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

1-2 I can't really comment on because I don't think I've played with him in a non-ongoing game.
The rest is kind of what I'm talking about. Classic "scummy" behaviour which seems to always end up coming from Town. Do you have some good examples showing what you're talking about?

[Robz888]

It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.

This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.

Vote: Jorbles

PPE ash

I agree completely. Vote: Jorbles

[Jimmmmm]

It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.

This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.

Vote: Jorbles

PPE ash

I agree completely. Vote: Jorbles

Interesting. Not sure exactly what I was expecting from you, but it wasn't that.

Can you expand at all?

[Robz888]

Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.

[Jimmmmm]

Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic at all.

[Robz888]

Well, you explained it pretty well. I really like the idea of late, semi-random Day 1 lynches on players with very little cause to be lynched. Not having generated a cause to be lynched on Day 1 is actually something of a scumtell.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic at all.

I'm not being sarcastic! Seriously, I think this a good idea.

[2.71828.....]

Either I have done a spectacular job convincing town that I am scum, or there is scum voting for me right now.

that sentence could very well read: scum are voting for me. So ash, walrus, mcmc, or jorbles. PoE a bit. Not walrus. Maybe, but he started everything and I don't really see him as scum for that or for the other things he has done. Ash? I think he is town who genuinely believed me to be scum. Between mcmc and jorbles mcmc has come out the strongest against me, early and often. Too risky for scum IMO. Jorbles didn't like my overview against him, then argued against my case against him. I hedged that case, which ash doesn't like, but let me unhedge here. Vote: jorbles

[2.71828.....]

Ash, as far as content goes, build me a case that I can respond to. It doesn't have to be exhaustive, but give me some hard data. If you want to vote for someone who jokes but has no content, vote morgrim. Sure he has less scummy behavior because he has the ultimate hedge: a true lack of content. I felt jokey at times during my other game, I have just had more opportunity/better setups here to joke about.

Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal

I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?

Ok, to answer I will review your posts:
162- saying you will catch up
217- Briefly answer with your choices of mafia PR with no additional discussion
220- Post little suspicions about Robz
221- Correct a post by Teproc
223- Upon catching up (I presume) you vote Robz without further explanation
260- Expresses support of Faust's plan
262- slightly more elaboration on support of the plan
281- asks for Morgrim prod
313- Supports Teproc, says no to mass claiming while trying to push us in the direction of scum-hunting.
342- Expresses doubt over Ash
347- Ends null read on Ash
362- A "nod, I am listening to what you are about to say Morgrim" post.
370- comes null on morgrim, towny on faust
379- tells walrus he missed a great opportunity to drunk post

Those were all the posts I used for my read, but Jorbles did have a read here at 392 before I actually posted that said the e/mcmc/jimmmm interaction was scummy and that I was the scummiest.  And then defends saying the 3 of us are scummy here at 400.

Ok.  So what does this say?  First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for.  But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?

1) The Robz vote.  You don't go into much at all about why you vote here.  It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit.  I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote.  See my last post for vote categories.  Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4.  Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum."  And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz. 
2) support Faust.  Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash.  Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest.  Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.

The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content."  While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument.  Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself.  You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much.  So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC.  So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.9

Robz (1): Teproc
2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)
ashersky (1): Voltaire
Morgrim (1): Morgrim
Jorbles (3): Jimmmmm, Robz, 2.7

Not Voting (1): manda

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day1 will end in ~ 3 days on December 4 at 10 pm forum time

[2.71828.....]

Ok. As much as I would love to fight this case against me, I think it will end in a big waste of time.

1) it is too easy for scum to come out against me now. (I wish Faust had saved his vote longer)
   A) since this is the case, I do not know that any additional people coming against me will gain us any new knowledge.
2) we want to avoid a mislynch.
3) I am a mislynch
4) since I am the bodyguard.

As I said, and especially since I am new, I am curious to see if I would have been able to fend off the lynch without a claim. But that is not in the best interest of town, especially since I think town believe very strongly that I am scum.

I will bodyguard Faust. If we both survive the night it is because scum think they can mislynch me later. I might be super early on this claim, but I have never done this kind of thing before so forgive me and maybe explain when an optimal time for a claim would have been. I mean, given my role, I would probably have died tonight anyway (even without the scummy [i mean jokey reactions-i like to think of my play as more noob town than scummy] play that I have done today), so might as well claim now.

[2.71828.....]

Although really, if mafia didn't choose any PRs town got gyped. IC and bodyguard? Weak.

[Robz888]

Barring extraordinary circumstances, you should only claim at L-1 (you are irritatingly early, in other words).

Everyone must have a chance to counter claim before we proceed at this point.

Keep in mind that if he were scum, this is a tough fakeclaim, because he has no idea whether there is a real Bodyguard or not (I mean, he knows how many town PRs there are, but not what they are). So the claim is probably true. Still... any counter claims? I am not counter claiming.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?

calm down there. Other than joke posts? What about my "it's a trap" post? That is only one example but it is in a semi-serious part of the game and I follow up and make a joke

What do you mean "calm down there"? In what sense was my post not calm?

[Robz888]

Although really, if mafia didn't choose any PRs town got gyped. IC and bodyguard? Weak.

I would say IC is the strongest town PR there is available in this game.

[2.71828.....]

I was referring to ash

[Jimmmmm]

Not counter-claiming.

[Jimmmmm]

I think, although he probably shouldn't have claimed at this point, his claim does get him some Town points. If he is scum, Town probably don't have many PRs, since if they do that would be too great a risk to take.

[ashersky]

unvote

I am inclined to believe this claim, because really, that's a terrible fake claim for scum.  As Robz mentioned, scum don't know what roles are in the game, so a fake claim's true purpose is to luckily survive or out a real PR.

vote: Jorbles.  I can get behind the semi-random D1 lurker lynch at deadline.  LALL after all.

[2.71828.....]

Barring extraordinary circumstances, you should only claim at L-1 (you are irritatingly early, in other words).

Everyone must have a chance to counter claim before we proceed at this point.

Keep in mind that if he were scum, this is a tough fakeclaim, because he has no idea whether there is a real Bodyguard or not (I mean, he knows how many town PRs there are, but not what they are). So the claim is probably true. Still... any counter claims? I am not counter claiming.

given the role of bodyguard though, since nothing is preventing the scum from killing the doctor, which will kill me (I would have protected him no matter what), and given that I already had the ic voting for me, I don't see what additional information we could have gathered from more cases against me. I guess we could have learned from people defending me. The other reason I claimed now is because I don't want a haphazard case thrown together at the last second to get a lynch. By the time everyone would have had their opinions out, we will probably have had about 24 hours to throw together a lynch. Although I think I let myself get distracted by the soft deadline. I see more of why it would be a missplay by me, but it is what it is. We need to focus on scum now. Jorbles, anyone?

[ashersky]

I was referring to ash

Where?

[2.71828.....]

I was referring to ash

Where?

in referring to making implications that I was totally devoid of jokes in my previous game. I said "calm down there" which I think may have been misinterpreted by jimmmm. Using the phrase in the sense of "slow down with the accusation because you are not quite right"

[Jimmmmm]

I think e should definitely be taken off the table, at least for now. If he's scum, then at least they'll keep faust alive in order to keep e's cover. If he's Town, then they probably have no way of getting past e's Bodyguard since the we generally believe that scum probably wouldn't have taken JoAT. If faust dies, that probably means e is scum, but may mean they have a JoAT.