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[Twistedarcher]

Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?

Please refer to the OP, which states that "A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline." So, with 12 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

[2.71828.....]

(brief) summary of my summaries:
Jimmmmm- a slight scum read
mcmc- an uneasy feeling at the time of my post, made more scummy by the interactions after my post
robz- My first controversial "day pass."  His behavior could be town or scum, but I think it will be easier to find one of the two other scum than decipher whether the behavior is actually town or actually scum.
Ashersky- My second controversial "day pass."  Basically the same reason as Robz.
manda- New player I guess?  My first time playing with manda.  (as well as firsts mcmc, morgrim, teproc, jorbles, and walrus)  I have found manda's posts to have decent content, and I lean town here.
Morgrim- Need more content.  Nothing so far.  Other than a good laugh.  His brother is scummy for taking all the apples I would have had.
Walrus- Has been unable to post much, but from what he has I would say null to town.
Jorbles- I read as slightly scummy for what he had posted so far, but with an open mind because of Thanksgiving and the fact that I haven't played with him before.  More comments to follow-up on his reply later.  Not appropriate for this post.
Voltaire- I saved my tough reads for last.  I really don't know right now. 
Teproc- Lean Towny.

Now Faust asked me who I actually want to lynch, so I better answer that since I did not actually do that.  It is difficult, so I will put everyone in tiers.

Would lynch if we needed the vote- Jimmmmmm, mcmc, jorbles
Don't want to lynch but would if we needed the vote- Voltaire, Teproc, Walrus, Morgrim
Don't want to lynch- Robz, Ashersky, manda
Never lynch- Faust, 2.7

I know, that still doesn't answer the question, but it is getting somewhere.  I am not ready to actually vote for anyone yet.  Votes can be several different things:
1) RVS votes- usually very early in the game just to get things rolling, get some discussion, etc
2) Pressure votes- You specifically want more input from a person and so you vote for them.  You hope that at least one or two more people will join you to make it more serious but you do not really want to lynch them yet.
3) Wagon votes- Someone has a few votes on them, and you decide to vote to further whatever cause was created by the first non-RVS vote on that person.  So, for example, you may join a Pressure vote wagon (which makes your vote a combo of pressure/wagon) because you think that person really does need to be held accountable for what they said or they need to answer a specific question.  Wagon votes can also be used as a disguising technique for scum hoping to get an easy lynch.
4) "I actually think you are scum" votes- You have a read on someone, you say why you have that read on that person, and you vote for them.  You think they are scum and you want to eliminate scum.  so you vote.
5) "I think it will be easy to lynch you" votes- This category is exclusively for scum.  They gameplan who they want to target (a few different people maybe) and get a feel for the day and then slowly build up a wagon on that person.  Not all at once (scum are smarter than that), but gradually and consistently to deflect people from thinking that they themselves are scum

There may be more categories, but these will suffice.  It is a little too late for me to RVS vote, there is no one I can really see as a pressure vote person, I won't join the wagon on me, and I am not confident enough in my reads to really think that mcmc, jorbles, or jimmmmmm are actually scum.  And I am not scum so category 5 does not apply to me.  So I will withhold my vote until such a time as I deem appropriate.

[2.71828.....]

Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal

I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?

Ok, to answer I will review your posts:
162- saying you will catch up
217- Briefly answer with your choices of mafia PR with no additional discussion
220- Post little suspicions about Robz
221- Correct a post by Teproc
223- Upon catching up (I presume) you vote Robz without further explanation
260- Expresses support of Faust's plan
262- slightly more elaboration on support of the plan
281- asks for Morgrim prod
313- Supports Teproc, says no to mass claiming while trying to push us in the direction of scum-hunting.
342- Expresses doubt over Ash
347- Ends null read on Ash
362- A "nod, I am listening to what you are about to say Morgrim" post.
370- comes null on morgrim, towny on faust
379- tells walrus he missed a great opportunity to drunk post

Those were all the posts I used for my read, but Jorbles did have a read here at 392 before I actually posted that said the e/mcmc/jimmmm interaction was scummy and that I was the scummiest.  And then defends saying the 3 of us are scummy here at 400.

Ok.  So what does this say?  First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for.  But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?

1) The Robz vote.  You don't go into much at all about why you vote here.  It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit.  I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote.  See my last post for vote categories.  Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4.  Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum."  And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz. 
2) support Faust.  Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash.  Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest.  Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.

The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content."  While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument.  Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself.  You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much.  So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC.  So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)

[Morgrim7]

I'm not being silly. How am I being silly?
Also, guys, I'm not sure rocky likes me. And I'm not scum, but if you think I am, well. vote: Morgrim is always a good solution for that.

Now, however, I should try to oblige to 2.7's preferences because I'm a good person like that.
Mcmc: seems scummy cause of that one post I quoted above. And how he's behaving kinda seems...I don't know...sketchy. There's a good one. Wait, I promised I would use incredibly. Incredibly sketchy. Would lynch him.
2.7: seems to be genuinely trying to help the town. Decent I suppose.
Rockabaloo: Doesn't like me, but I already said that. Meh.
Ashes: leaning slightly town.
Robz: leaning slightly scum
Sir Fishy McWalrus: leaning slightly towards the exact middle.

[Teproc]

Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?

[Morgrim7]

Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?

Good point, rocky.

All towny except for Voltaire, who seems sorta neutral. And for manda, who also seems neutral. And for Jimmm, who reads a bit scummy. And Jorbles, who seems a bit up tight that 2.7 is arguing with him about posting.

[Jorbles]

I don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.

But it's scummy to say that. Like, it's the thing a traitor would want to say. Giving your fellow scum hints at who you think the town PRs are.

But you said we are under the assumption that scum have daychat.  Yet you contradict yourself here.  If I were scum, I would have no need to send subliminal messages that I think teproc has some sort of town PR.  #discredittheIC

also, it was never said explicitly by a mod so

Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?

Not true in the situation that faust is describing where you are a traitor. If the traitor was not recruited they do not have daychat with their buddies, and would try to bread crumb info to them.

[2.71828.....]

I don't think 2.7 was rolefishing here. I mean, there's no way a PR would actually respond to that kind of comment, I assumed he was just thinking out loud basically.

But it's scummy to say that. Like, it's the thing a traitor would want to say. Giving your fellow scum hints at who you think the town PRs are.

But you said we are under the assumption that scum have daychat.  Yet you contradict yourself here.  If I were scum, I would have no need to send subliminal messages that I think teproc has some sort of town PR.  #discredittheIC

also, it was never said explicitly by a mod so

Mods, with 12 alive it takes 6 or 7 to lynch?

Not true in the situation that faust is describing where you are a traitor. If the traitor was not recruited they do not have daychat with their buddies, and would try to bread crumb info to them.

You are correct.  I misread the bit about being a traitor as opposed to being a normal member of the mafia.

[Jorbles]

Jorbles- tough read as he hasn't said much and I have never played with him. He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content. Slightly scummy until I get some reads from him, but the holidays mess with everyone's schedule, so I will withhold too much judgement until after holidays are over and everyone can post as normal

I've been giving reads and voting, what do you mean I haven't been giving real content?

Ok, to answer I will review your posts:
162- saying you will catch up
217- Briefly answer with your choices of mafia PR with no additional discussion
220- Post little suspicions about Robz
221- Correct a post by Teproc
223- Upon catching up (I presume) you vote Robz without further explanation
260- Expresses support of Faust's plan
262- slightly more elaboration on support of the plan
281- asks for Morgrim prod
313- Supports Teproc, says no to mass claiming while trying to push us in the direction of scum-hunting.
342- Expresses doubt over Ash
347- Ends null read on Ash
362- A "nod, I am listening to what you are about to say Morgrim" post.
370- comes null on morgrim, towny on faust
379- tells walrus he missed a great opportunity to drunk post

Those were all the posts I used for my read, but Jorbles did have a read here at 392 before I actually posted that said the e/mcmc/jimmmm interaction was scummy and that I was the scummiest.  And then defends saying the 3 of us are scummy here at 400.

Ok.  So what does this say?  First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for.  But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?

1) The Robz vote.  You don't go into much at all about why you vote here.  It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit.  I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote.  See my last post for vote categories.  Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4.  Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum."  And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz. 
2) support Faust.  Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash.  Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest.  Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.

The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content."  While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument.  Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself.  You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much.  So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC.  So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. You acknowledge that you were wrong about me not providing content, but you just don't like the content I'm providing because it's not "original" enough for you. I guess I can live with that since I am of the opinion that you're probably scum. It kinda looks to me like you set yourself up to go after me thinking my posts were devoid of any content, but didn't find what you expected when you went to actually build a case. Maybe I'm OMGUSing a bit here. I'll let other people judge for themselves.

[Jimmmmm]

Just started re-reading e, and came across this.

1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK.  yes please.

Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.

Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.

[Jorbles]

Just started re-reading e, and came across this.

1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK.  yes please.

Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.

Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.

This is a good point, but as you say doesn't rule e out as the traitor, which is seeming most likely given how he has played. Traitor isn't a perfect world lynch, but it's not a bad thing in any situation.

[Robz888]

I would also like clarification about the scummaries quip Robz. Are you calling me scummy, or e, or both? Or was it just sort of an off-handed aphorism?

I was not calling anyone specifically scummy, just that long descriptive posts are easy to replicate as scum and don't prove much. Analytic posts, even short ones, are better.

[faust]

Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?

Actually Teproc, what are your reads? You're voting Robz, but have recently expressed suspicion towards e and mcmc. Is Robz still the scummiest? Why?

[mcmcsalot]

Just started re-reading e, and came across this.

1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK.  yes please.

Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.

Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.

Hmm, for some reason this post reads a lot to me like what Jimm covering for his scum partner 2.7 or at least it could be, so if one is scum I think the other is more likely scum. That being said it doesn't currently reveal anything.

[Jimmmmm]

Just started re-reading e, and came across this.

1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK.  yes please.

Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.

Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.

Hmm, for some reason this post reads a lot to me like what Jimm covering for his scum partner 2.7 or at least it could be, so if one is scum I think the other is more likely scum. That being said it doesn't currently reveal anything.

So you disagree with my conclusion?

[Teproc]

Why no reads on Voltaire, Jorbles, Jimmmmm and manda ?

Actually Teproc, what are your reads? You're voting Robz, but have recently expressed suspicion towards e and mcmc. Is Robz still the scummiest? Why?

My reads are still pretty close to what they were a few pages ago when I did a reads post. I had both mcmcsalot and e as null then.

mcmc had a reasonable answer for his excessive reaction to e's post (he was frustrated with being labelled a lurker by some, right before being accused of being too active), but that's the second time he has voted for weak reasons in my mind, so he is a light scum read at this point.

e I have no idea. As I said, the way he started joking about his "day 1 passes" when he was criticized for them is scummy, but the rest of his recent posts have read town to me. I'd still put him as null.

The rest hasn't really changed. Morgrim is a cipher, but slightly on the side of scum to me.

That's the reason I haven't really updated my reads : nothing is really strong here.

As far as Robz goes, he hasn't given me a reason to unvote, and no one else has screamed scum, so my vote stays here. He's been a lot less noticeable lately, which seems to be a great way to get the pressure off him, because people want to move on and scumhunt elsewhere. But I don't think scumhunting necessitates throwing your vote around, so I'm fine with leaving it on Robz so far.

By the end of the week-end, I plan to do rereads on my top suspects as we will be closer to the deadline (soft or otherwise) and I'll also try to narrow down my lynch pool.

[Morgrim7]

Is it just me, or do Mcmc and Jorbles reactions seem scummy?
And the more I look at rocky, the more I'm sure he's on our side. At least, I hope.

[mcmcsalot]

Just started re-reading e, and came across this.

1. JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja) - Extra NK.  yes please.

Clearly if e was scum he would know that JoAT does not provide an extra NK. Now, as with Robz seemingly not knowing the setup, this could be a scum play. He could have said this in his QT and been corrected by his partner and chosen to do the same thing in the game thread. But I think something like this is less likely to come from e than from Robz.

Of course, even if we believe that they both genuinely didn't know the setup properly, that doesn't rule out them being the Traitor.

Hmm, for some reason this post reads a lot to me like what Jimm covering for his scum partner 2.7 or at least it could be, so if one is scum I think the other is more likely scum. That being said it doesn't currently reveal anything.

So you disagree with my conclusion?

No, that's what I am saying, at face value it doesn't mean much, but if you were to flip scum I would be much more certain of 2.7 being scum. If 2.7 flips scum I would be a little more wary of you. As for what you said, I think what 2.7 said could have been from town or scum.

[manda2014]

I've finally escaped the land of no internet.... reading now and ACTUALLY POSTING here in a little bit.

[manda2014]

So, quick first impressions after catching up. Potentially more to come this evening but lots of other stuff to do. 

Morgrim's joking around is entertaining but, while maybe not harmful, definitely not helpful... Teproc's responses vocalized the frustration that I felt, so I'm inclined to say he's town for now.

As the recipient of one of 2.7's D1 passes, I hate to complain (joke, I love to complain), but I really don't like the idea of giving "passes" in general. I don't think it makes him seem super scummy, but I also think it can be a hindrance to the town when a player decides they will no longer consider a vote for any particular person (unless, as Jorbles has said, there is a pressing need to keep them alive).

mcmc's posts 397-399 feel very confrontational. Since that is generally a normal underlying personality characteristic that comes out when someone has pressure on them, I tend to think that scum would temper that and react non-confrontationally. Maybe I'm projecting too much of my own tendencies here, but I can't automatically equate confrontational with scumminess.

Super disappointed that we missed out on drunk analysis from Walrus.

I'll be in class when that soft deadline hits but I'll have a vote in by then. Again, I'm super limited on posting through at least the rest of next week and somewhat limited the following week.

[2.71828.....]

Ok.  So what does this say?  First off, you had a little more content than I gave you credit for.  But even with that, is it really as much as it might seem?

1) The Robz vote.  You don't go into much at all about why you vote here.  It almost looks like you are sheeping teproc a bit.  I am a fan of original ideas and giving reasons behind a vote.  See my last post for vote categories.  Your vote here looks somewhere between 3 and 4.  Small wagon, with not well explained "I think you are scum."  And you never say anything else about it until you say I look scummier than Robz. 
2) support Faust.  Very easy since he is the IC.
3) Ash.  Quick to give the null read after expressing his doubts a few posts earlier.
4) Comments on the e/mcmc/jimmmmm interaction choosing me as the scummiest.  Again, a safe read here that should bring no trouble.

The phrase that I think Jorbles takes affront over is "He has been around to comment some, but hasn't given any real content."  While he has posted and given reads, what I look for is a more original content or a well reasoned explanation as to why you concur with another person's argument.  Especially when giving non-rvs votes as you have done for Robz and myself.  You came out and supported Faust and mentioned Ash a bit, but never really developed your thoughts too much.  So when I say "real content" I mean good explanations and backup for your reads rather than just agreeing with others and the IC.  So I stand by my statement that you have been around to comment, but haven't really said a whole lot yourself. (other than agreeing with the IC and coming towny on teproc for the morgrim interaction.)

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. You acknowledge that you were wrong about me not providing content, but you just don't like the content I'm providing because it's not "original" enough for you. I guess I can live with that since I am of the opinion that you're probably scum. It kinda looks to me like you set yourself up to go after me thinking my posts were devoid of any content, but didn't find what you expected when you went to actually build a case. Maybe I'm OMGUSing a bit here. I'll let other people judge for themselves.

I was hoping that more people would share their thoughts on this, but no one seems to be around. .  And then people get distracted by my comment concerning the joat PR. (I won't say much here: the statement is what it is, believe what you will. Anything I add on the subject is WIFOM.) Morgrim finds both jorbles and mcmc little scummy for their reactions, but didn't go into any specifics.  Manda posts, but only really only comments on D1 passes.

As far as what I think about jorbles response: I think I built a pretty good case that he actually didn't have any content except posts to show passive involvement to avoid any real inspection D1. I tend to disagree with morgrim a bit though, and I am starting to lean a little more towny on jorbles because of his responses. If I do get lynched, I will flip town, and jorbles will be a prime target because of his reactions.  Scum would not be so decisive in this situation. Especially against someone they cannot really use meta analysis against since we have never played together before.

[faust]

manda, e, both of you need to put a vote down really soon.

[Robz888]

So, nothing has changed my opinion from a few days ago: I think mcmc and Jimm are the two scummiest people.

To an extent, this opinion is based on something I HATE doing--punishing people for being active. Jimm and mcmc here seem much more engaged in this game then in a lot of recent, previous games... and I would expect that if they were scum. And I hate to say that, because of course I would rather have them being more active.

There's a bit more to the case on Jimm. I've noticed him trying to "keep the circle wide" as I am calling it now, something I think scum does. Scum, I've realized, really wants to keep as many suspects on the table as possible. This is why--maybe--Jimm jumped at my self-declared IC status to try and refute it (when it really wasn't necessary to refute, I mean obviously I was not and am not IC). He's done this one other time recently that I supposed I should try to dig up to prove my case.

Anyway, Jimm, I guess. Vote: Jimm if I'm not currently.

[Jimmmmm]

Wow, I didn't realise I was considered one of the more active players in this game.

[2.71828.....]

Wow, I didn't realise I was considered one of the more active players in this game.

yeah.it has been super slow.
Faust: doing a reread now. Will have a vote today per your request.